Call for consolidated set of SMALL wood samples for chatoyance

[phinds]

Hey, all.

In the following three threads, and maybe another or two, I brought up the subject of a new web site on wood chatoyance and subsequently one of the experimenters from that site, Paolo, joined us here on WB and we've been having an interesting discussion of chatoyance.

https://woodbarter.com/threads/excellent-new-web-site-on-chatoyancy.46201/#post-641840

https://woodbarter.com/threads/hi-everyone-from-italy.46225/

https://woodbarter.com/threads/most-chatoyant-wood-species.46249/

And in this thread, Paolo called for samples:

https://woodbarter.com/threads/samples-offcuts.46284/

Since shipping to Italy will be expensive, what I'd like to do is consolidate our collection of small samples for Paolo. Send them to me and I'll ship them on to him after everyone has sent whatever they are going to send.

PLEASE DO NOT send me anything bigger than 6" x 2" OOPS --- it's 7" x 3" x thin and if you can, please use your band saw to resaw down to 1/4" thickness. Paolo has said that size is big enough for him and keeping everything small will keep me from going bankrupt sending them to him. EDIT: sizing has been further clarified as strictly minimum size is 5.2" x 1.48" x .08" and recommended minimum size is 6" x 1.5" x 1/8"

Also, please ID the pieces as specifically as possible. Maybe label with masking tape instead of writing on the samples themselves.

Let's do a list here in this thread so that I don't get too many multiples and we are all clear on what's being collected. Remember, quartersawn and flat cut of the same species will have different chatoyances so consider doing both if you have them.

Thanks,

Paul

P.S. In the other thread, he has suggested in particular:
Red Oak
White Oak
Black Cherry
Hard Maple
Bigleaf Maple
Hickory
Honey Locust
Eastern Red Cedar
Butternut
Redwood
Souther Yellow Pine
White Pine
Pecan
Sassafras

 

[Mike1950]

I will take care of big leaf. And a couple others.

 

[phinds]

I've started pulling a few samples myself and was reminded why it is that I haven't used my bandsaw in a while. Need new blade. REALLY screwed up a nice piece of redbud.

Anyway, what I have so far are: (some of these will be somewhat smaller than 7" x 4")

Eastern redbud / Cercis canadensis
morado / Machaerium spp.
black locust / Robinia pseudoacacia
yellowheart / Euxylophora paraensis
chechem / Metopium brownei
padauk / Pterocarpus spp.
prima vera / Roseodendron donnell-smithii
quartersawn American sycamore / Platanus spp.
wenge (might be panga panga; I'll check)
quartersawn red oak / Quercus spp.
white pine / Pinus spp.
approximately quartersawn American mulberry / Morus spp.
American holly / Ilex spp.

I will also pull
hard maple (and possible soft maple)
American black cherry
--- probably others
I have bird's eye maple but it's a pretty crappy piece so it would be good if someone else would do that one.



@Paolo, if you can make any use of pieces only 4cm wide then I have a lot more because I precut a lot of my pieces to 1.5" for use in my bowls.

 

[Gonzalodqa]

I know for sure I have:
Amburana cearensis
Redwood
Padouk
Blue gum
Coigue
platymiscium sp. (I think it’s platymiscium yucatanum but I have to confirm it)
I might know of more on Monday

 

[chatometry]

Thank you very much for this effort Paul! This is really appreciated!

The strictly minimum size is 130*37*2mm; [MODERATOR'S NOTE: this is 5.2" long x 1.48" wide x .08"] the recommended minimum size is 150*38*3mm. [this is 6" long x 1.5" wide x 1/8" thick]
Fibers should be (roughly) along the 150mm direction (endgrain pieces won't work because endgrain does not show typical chatoyance). [MODERATOR: personally, I find his terminology unclear here, so let me be explicit. If you had, for example, a piece with cathedral grain, the V would point in the long direction and if you had quartersawn, the side view of the growth rings - the long striations - would run the length of the piece. See post #7 below]

I want to add that
1) ANY species is useful;
2) for those very common species such as red oak, having samples from different sources (i.e. different logs and maybe also different geographical areas) would be very helpful, as this will increase the statistical significance of the data.

Thanks again everyone!
Paolo

 

[phinds]

@Paola, I've added Imperial measurements. We tried metric here in the US and that lasted about 5 minutes (which in metric is still about 5 minutes).

Just to be clear, do the stated sizes also apply to veneer sheets or should they be larger?

Also, just so *I* am clear, you ARE saying that you want pieces that are wider than they are long? Seems backwards to me but you have specified that you want the grain to run along the short length.

 

[chatometry]

Thanks Paul for the conversion.
No, I want samples that are longer than they are wide, as this example picture.

Speaking of veneers, a size of 6.5" x 3.5" would be perfect as it would fit two samples with room for trimming.

Paolo

 

[phinds]

OK. That makes a lot more sense. The grain runs with the LONG direction, not the short direction.

 

[phinds]

Speaking of veneers, a size of 6.5" x 3.5" would be perfect as it would fit two samples with room for trimming.

OK. I'll put in quite a few veneers. I used to deal in veneers & still have some left. This is what's left:
www.phinds.com/basement_veneer

 

[chatometry]

Ouch... You DO have some veneers

 

[chatometry]

PS as a side subject, if anybody is interested in having chatoyance measured on one or more FINISHED samples, as if to compare the effect of different finishes, this can be done too.

These data will not feed into the main research (chatoyance vs wood species), but they can be useful for everybody's quest for the best finish.

 

[phinds]

Well, Paolo, you REALLY hit the jackpot. I haven't done any more about collecting solid wood samples from my stash for you but even though my TODO list is longer than the Union Pacific railroad network, I decided to make the time to pull, cut, and label a few veneer samples for you. They're all nominally 7"x5"

 

[phinds]

 

[phinds]

There's about 120 of them and I realized as I was sorting these that there are a couple more that I missed.

A few of them are just the same wood multiple times but from different flitches. Several have both flat cut and quartersawn.

 

[chatometry]

Wooow looks like Christmas!!
Thank you!

Just a couple of questions:
1) when you say "different flitches", do you know whether they come from different logs? (...bought from different sources?)
This question applies to:
QS american black cherry
Flat cut white oak
Makore
Honduras Mahogany crotch
Aniegre
Sapele
Bubinga
Douglas Fir
Tulipwood Etimoe
Paldao
Birch

2) do you know the exact species for these?
Flaky maple
Flaky oak
African mahogany (khaya?)
Birch
Pine
Poplar (is is Populus or is it Liriodendron)
Lacewood (hard question, I know...)

3) Do you think there may be any export issues related to honduras mahogany?

I will have to do a lot of glueing and sanding :)

 

[Arn213]

3) Do you think there may be any export issues related to honduras mahogany?

There are about 13 species samples that are “labeled” that are either on Appendix II & Appendix III- YES, restrictions includes veneer.

Any wood that has bark incursions, bark inclusions, ingrown bark, knots, mineral streaks, ghosting trails (bug feces), pin holes, worm holes, spalt lines, rot, live edge could result in the risk of it being “quarantined” by customs at it’s destination. They will give you a choice whether you want to fumigate it (additional cost to recipient) or not which it will get disposed of by customs.

 

[chatometry]

Thanks.
I was looking at this page:

Current CITES Listings of Tree Species

For Bubinga and the Dalbergia genus it says:
"(All Appendix-II Dalbergia spp. covered by Annotation #15.*)"

"#15 All parts and derivatives are included, except:
...
b) Non-commercial exports of a maximum total weight of 10 kg. per shipment;
..."

So these should be ok... right?
I am not familiar with these restrictions, so I might be reading it wrong...

Paolo

 

[Arn213]

Thanks.
I was looking at this page:

Current CITES Listings of Tree Species

For Bubinga and the Dalbergia genus it says:
"(All Appendix-II Dalbergia spp. covered by Annotation #15.*)"

"#15 All parts and derivatives are included, except:
...
b) Non-commercial exports of a maximum total weight of 10 kg. per shipment;
..."

So these should be ok... right?
I am not familiar with these restrictions, so I might be reading it wrong...

Paolo

#5 Logs, sawn wood and veneer sheets.

https://cites.org/sites/default/files/eng/com/pc/23/E-PC23-22-02.pdf

Appendices | CITES

Introduction Appendices in pdf format Appendices I, II and III valid from 23 February 2023 Interpretation 1. Species included in these Appendices

cites.org

 

[Gonzalodqa]

On my experience I have never had any problem with customs, and I had many cites II including cites I species shipped to me as samples. just label the box as wood samples for study purposes and you’ll be fine. At least in Finland customs has never give me any trouble

 

[phinds]

1) when you say "different flitches", do you know whether they come from different logs? (...bought from different sources?)

Generally, yes, but for the Douglas fir, the first two pieces are just different cuts from the same flitch.

2) do you know the exact species for these?

Nope, not for any of the 120. Only those that have a single speces, as listed on my site.

Poplar (is is Populus or is it Liriodendron)

See my rant on my popular page.

3) Do you think there may be any export issues related to honduras mahogany?

No. I've sent every kind of wood shown to Australia and there has never been a problem. I just put "educational set of dry wood samples with no bark" on the customs form.

I will have to do a lot of glueing and sanding :)

Also, some wetting and pressing to get some of them flat before gluing.