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Help me get rid of my 60 grit gouge!

Discussion in 'Sanding & Finishing - Woodturning' started by Johnturner, Jul 1, 2017.

  1. Johnturner

    Johnturner Proud Member Full Member Thread Starter

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    Wood Barter Buddies,
    I have a serious problem with tear out. I have tried sanding afer sanding sealer, fine cuts with a bowl gouge, power sanding, hand sanding, scrapers etc all to no avail. Please help before I toss my 3520b out a window. (quite a feat if I do say so myself.) When sanding should I press hard or soft? Go fast or slow? H E L P!!!
     
  2. Woodworking Vet

    Woodworking Vet Member Full Member

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    What kind of wood are you turning? What form are you turning (bowl, vase ect)? Some woods are more prone to tear out than others. Its late but I'll get write more later this weekend on how I deal with tear out.

    David
     
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  3. Lou Currier

    Lou Currier Member Full Member

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    @Woodworking Vet is right...we need more info. Pictures help as well. One question...how sharp are your tools and how often do you sharpen them?
     
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  4. Nubsnstubs

    Nubsnstubs Where is it??? Full Member

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    John, before you toss, let me know. I'll be there in just a few hours to catch it outside your window. that's going to be two feats as I'm in Arizona, and the lathe weighs in somewhere near 700 pounds?.

    I mostly turn at high speed 3000 rpm after turning the tenon and mounting my piece into the chuck. A sharp tool, the highest speed that you are comfortable with, proper tool introduction, confidence, and patience will aide in getting a smooth finish in most cases. Wood species and age of the cut wood is a factor in some cases.

    Sometimes, it helps to start sanding at 36 grit, and work up to 220. That'll remove tear out every time. :lol2: Hope this helps.

    Pictures might help.............. Jerry (in Tucson)
     
  5. Wildthings

    Wildthings ASTROS 2017 WORLD CHAMPIONS Full Member

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    Even if the pictures don't help we still want some!!
     
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  6. Johnturner

    Johnturner Proud Member Full Member Thread Starter

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    OK Pictures to come. In the meantime. Wood species does not seem to matter. Right now I am doing a bowl Pix to come. I usually turn at 2000 to 2100 (?) I was never a great sharpener but I am pretty sure the tools are sharpe, wolverine jig with new CBN wheel. Back this PM with pix. I don't know how well tearout will show on pix - but I'll get some.
     
  7. Johnturner

    Johnturner Proud Member Full Member Thread Starter

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    I'm not sure if you were kidding about 36 grit - if not I'll try anything.
     
  8. Nubsnstubs

    Nubsnstubs Where is it??? Full Member

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    Not kidding. :blush: I've gotten better since those days, but I keep it on hand anyway. I use a pneumatic right angle tool with 2" and 3" discs from 36 -220. That's the grit range. It's mostly used on the insides of forms that have small openings that I can't get my one of hands into. You'd think that would be easy, considering the number of digits missing from both. :whatever: I know a guy that doesn't start sanding with anything under 320. Hell, most of the time, I'll stop at 220............ Jerry (in Tucson)
     
  9. DKMD

    DKMD Sawbones Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Full Member

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    Pics of the bowl and the tool will help. Tear out inside or outside of the bowl? Near the rim, and transition, or bottom?

    We'll get you through this! I'll be in Princeton, Mass near the end of July, and I'd be happy to work out a trip if it's it not too far.
     
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  10. Johnturner

    Johnturner Proud Member Full Member Thread Starter

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    OK Here are the pix.
    Doc mostly near the transition, both inside and outside, mostly in.
    Any tool that I use.

    (Please excuse my dirty fingernails)

    Doc I'll look up Princeton.

    IMG_0112.JPG IMG_0115.JPG





    IMG_0116.JPG
     
  11. Johnturner

    Johnturner Proud Member Full Member Thread Starter

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    Doc
    Princeton is an hour from me. Will you ave a lathe where you are going? I am happy to make the trip.
    Let me know.
    John
    PS Thanks for the offer!
     
  12. Lazyman

    Lazyman Member Full Member

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    If that is after a bowl gouge, it looks like you may be doing a scraping cut instead of a shearing cut? If that view is after sanding, you are using too coarse a grit. Only time I sand with anything below 150 is when I have a problem that I cannot fix with a tool, usually because I got a late catch or chatter marks and it the bowl is already too thin. When I do that, I will often do it while the bowl is not turning to minimize the rings so I can sand in multiple directions. Turning/sadning with any lower than that and I usually wind up with grooves from the coarse grit. Scraper is often my final clean up tool but I need to work on putting a better bur on the edge to improve the finish. When I sand, I think that I would consider it towards the light end of pressure -- usually just 1 or 2 fingers against the bowl. I am in the process of trying to make some sanding balls to use with my drill. My hope is that the rotation will help prevent grooves from sanding.
     
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  13. Johnturner

    Johnturner Proud Member Full Member Thread Starter

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    Nathan
    The sanding groves are from 60 grit trying to clean up the tearout, not anywere close to being done. This being because the finish off the tool has tearout. I sand while bowl is turning - and I put pressure on the paper.
    Tried a shear cut with a owl gouge and scraper - no luck.
    John
     
  14. Johnturner

    Johnturner Proud Member Full Member Thread Starter

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    owl gouge??? try bowl!
     
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  15. DKMD

    DKMD Sawbones Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Full Member

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    No lathe where I'm headed... my wife has aunts/uncles/cousins spread all over that part of the country. We're going up to see her aunt and uncle, but I might be able to steal away if I can borrow a vehicle from someone up there.

    Hard to tell from the pics, but are you talking about the concentric rings? Couple of things can cause that...Too coarse sand paper, bruising from the heel of the gouge, or coming off the bevel and cutting with the tip.

    Spalted wood can be tough to cut cleanly. Sometimes, I'll use a smaller gouge if I'm getting tearout with a larger tool. Shear scraping with a gouge or scraper can help. Applying shellac/sanding sealer and sharpening before final cuts sometimes helps.
     
  16. Johnturner

    Johnturner Proud Member Full Member Thread Starter

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    Doc
    I know the rings are from the sanding, I was trying to get rid of the tearout. I have tried shear scraping and using a scraper.
    When you say shellac/sanding sealer, I tried sealer. An I using it right? I put it on and then sanded again. Is that right? The same with shellac? Do you thin the product?
    I need to thank all of you guys - You are the best!!
    John
     
  17. DKMD

    DKMD Sawbones Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator Full Member

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    For punky wood, I'll soak the soft areas with shellac before taking a final cut. I mix my own shellac from flakes(1/3 flakes to 2/3 denatured alcohol by volume), but the dewaxed stuff from the box stores works well. Fair warning, sanding after shellac sucks because it loads the paper really fast!

    Here's a decent video of John Lucas sheer scraping with a scraper and a gouge:
     
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    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
  18. Johnturner

    Johnturner Proud Member Full Member Thread Starter

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    A lot of ood ideas - Great video Doc. I'll try all of these tomorrow.
     
  19. Johnturner

    Johnturner Proud Member Full Member Thread Starter

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    Not ood ideas but GOOD ideas
     
  20. Woodworking Vet

    Woodworking Vet Member Full Member

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    Spalted woods can some times be prone to tear out and in some cases sanding will just create more tear out. If I have a piece of wood that is tearing out I will usually apply shellac or sanding sealer, if you don't have that then lacquer will work as well, maybe even some poly. Something to stiffen up the fibers. I usually let it sit over night, or a few days, before cutting to make sure its completely dry. If your sealer isn't fully cured you'll still get some tear out so be patient and give it a couple days. Then with a very sharp tool take light cuts. I wouldn't use a carbide tool as they are scrapers and can cause more tear out. Use a gouge and just take light cuts, shear scraping is okay too. I don't know the diameter of your bowl but I think 2000 plus rpms is too fast. If your bowl gouge is getting too hot from the friction it won't stay sharp very long. Try slowing down the the lathe and take your time with the cuts. I also think that if you have too much pressure behind the gouge you're probably going to rip fibers rather than cut them. I've come a long way with dealing with tear out and patience is my biggest help (though that is really really hard).
     
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