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ruining turnings

Discussion in 'General Woodturning Discussion' started by Karda, Dec 4, 2019 at 6:35 PM.

  1. Karda

    Karda Member Full Member Thread Starter

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    when does a turner stop ruining things almost every bowl i turn i ruin in the tenon removal stage, when I do one right The finish sucks. The out side isn't bad the no matter what I do the interior bottom is smeary. i even tried squirting the inside of the bowl with shellac while the lathe is moving, kinda messy but it helps. So few turn out realy nice I some times wonder why I bother. Just rantin thanks for listening
     
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  2. Tony

    Tony Hardwood Enthusiast Staff Member Global Moderator Full Member

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    We all do it my man. All I can say is keep going and trying, you'll get it down.
     
  3. Karda

    Karda Member Full Member Thread Starter

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    I am relay debating that
     
  4. Tony

    Tony Hardwood Enthusiast Staff Member Global Moderator Full Member

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    Is there a turning club near you? Maybe you could join and get some help and other opinions.
     
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  5. Karda

    Karda Member Full Member Thread Starter

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    I belong to a turning club but its not near me. The is all the help i need but I can't get to it because I can't drive
     
  6. Tony

    Tony Hardwood Enthusiast Staff Member Global Moderator Full Member

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    Post some of your turnings, tell us about them....species, what you did, etc. Maybe some people are here can help.
     
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  7. David Hill

    David Hill I collect & use Texas woods---but prefer Mesquite. Full Member

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    I’m watching the thread too.
    More info on the wood, tools, pics??
     
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  8. jasonb

    jasonb Sawdust = man glitter Full Member

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    Agree with the above posts. We're here for you. Would be helpful to see a couple pictures when you get ready to remove the tenon.
     
  9. TimR

    TimR Sawdust Engineer Full Member

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    Yea, probably something we can help with descriptions of each issue and pics. Have you looked at any bowl turning vids by guys like Mike Mahoney, Stuart Batty, Jimmy Clewes, to name a few? These guys do a great job of describing techniques and tips.
    The other key thing is knowing how to sharpen and shape your gouges for the job.

    After rereading your comments, can you describe how you remove your tenons?
     
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    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019 at 9:04 PM
  10. ripjack13

    ripjack13 ɹǝʇɹɐqpooʍ Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator Full Member

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    I ruin stuff all. The. Time.
    Just gotta keep going. Slow down.
    As for the finish, that's tough. Mine all suck. Except for ca on a pen. But even that gives me trouble. For bowls I'll use a spray can clear. I gotta find one that works for me though. With brush on poly I always have runs and stuff stuck to it. So I end up sanding it off and redoing a few times. I need to make a spray box or something.
    And another problem I have with my bowl/larger turning finishes, is whatever I use, I have to use it outside, or the wife starts meowing that its smelly and gives her a headache.
    Whe parting it off the lathe, I'll turn it down to about an inch looking dowel size. Then turn the rpm to the lowest setting, and then reach around the lathe with my left arm, lean onto the lathe, hold on the bowl with my hand, to steady it, and part it off a little at a time, till it can wobble, then turn the lathe off. And twist it off manually. Then just sand the little nub. I don't have a steady rest to hold my stuff, so I do what I have to with what I have....
     
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    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019 at 7:37 PM
  11. Karda

    Karda Member Full Member Thread Starter

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    thanks I'll take pic of the next one i do. I have watched a lot of videos, but they are done by experts and they don't make mistakes. so i watch the videos but can't do it the way they do it because I 'm not an expert yet. Als o when i try to do it the way the expert teaches what I think is the right way isn't. alot is lost between the videos and my work piece
     
  12. Karl_TN

    Karl_TN Member Full Member

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    Mike,

    What are you using to turn off the tenon? My favorite way is using cole jaws. Just keep a tale keep the tailstock engaged as long as possible.

    As far as finishing goes, I've had good luck using Mark Sillay's CA method. Best place to get the odor free PARFIX 3408 CA Glue is calling or emailing Mark.

     
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  13. William Tanner

    William Tanner Member Full Member

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    For me it would have been a significant struggle to try to learn on my own, even with videos. Been lucky to have the resources of a vibrant turning club, which include several well known artists. Fellow club members Jerry and Jerry have taught me so much. The club owns six lathes and after the holidays will have open turning Saturdays where a member can get help with a problem or take a class. Also had the benefit of demos and hands on classes with some of the greats. Getting several four hour one on one sessions with a competent turner works wonders. Sounds like that might be difficult for you at this time. But... you have a great resource right here with so many nice people willing to help. Wish you well. Keep trucking and enjoy your successes.
     
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  14. trc65

    trc65 Member Full Member

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    Mike, a suggestion with regard to finishing. Simplify things and go with a basic, but very functional finish.

    Probably the easiest finish is a simple oil finish. Walnut oil, wiped on the lathe and use a little friction to warm the surface and help it penetrate. If you wanted to, you could rub a little beeswax on it as well and buff with a clean rag while spinning.

    This will provide a very functional ( and IMO) beautiful finish that is easily refreshed as/when needed.

    I think that sometimes it is easy to get caught up in the marketing hype that surrounds the dozens of different finishes that all purport to be the easiest and prettiest.

    Many times simpler is better.
     
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  15. Karda

    Karda Member Full Member Thread Starter

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    i try to keep it simple, wipe on shellac and OB shine juice. For some reason I can get a good finish on the out side but the inside bottom is smeary. i squirt the shellac on the moving bowl then let the lathe run for a few minutes, that work well providing I remember to cover the bed. I have pictures of my next bowl
     
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  16. Karda

    Karda Member Full Member Thread Starter

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    here are the picture of my next bowl its dry red maple live edge with the tenon inside the foot, the foot has to go. By the time I true it there will be nothing left and that will also make it easier to clean the bottom. one problem i have in removing the tenon is the gouge vibrates on the tool rest, alot

    bowl5.jpg

    bowl6.jpg

    bowl7.jpg

    bowl4.jpg
     
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  17. TXMoon

    TXMoon Member Full Member

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    A couple of things. That is a beautiful bowl. I love the shape and the foot. Why does the tenon have to go if it's hidden by the foot? I have some bowls with really crappy, unfinished mortise that I just left. I could go back and sand, and finish them but since the bowls are not for sale, I don't mind the unfinished bottoms.

    I get the same issues as you do. I change tools often if one doesn't work (I am sure meaning I am not using it right). I end up turning the outside with gouges, and the inside with carbide scrapers. Use what works. Then I used the "sand, sand, sand, hit it again with a scraper, sand, sand, sanding sealer, go sit down and drink some water and relax, come back, scrape, sand, (repeat all of that if needed) then finish" method. And that usually works. And some go into the burn box.

    My big thing is for me to relax, and slow down. I think I get caught up in how long a bowl turning video is vs how long it actually takes them. There is some great turners here willing to help any issue. I have learned a lot from these members and am always learning new things.

    Finally, follow the advice here. When you hit an issue, send pictures, and describe what, and how your doing what ever is causing the issues. We're here to help!
     
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  18. TXMoon

    TXMoon Member Full Member

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    I don't know for sure but I would say if you are using OB then don't use shellac. I stopped using straight shellac since I have discovered OB and get good results. And sometimes I'll just use Walnut Oil. Remember, the bottom of the bowl that is closest to the axis of the lathe is turning at a lot slower relative rpm (well, it's the same RPM but spinning slower if that makes sense) than the rim. So when using a friction polish on the bottom you may need to speed up the lathe to get a good friction finish.
     
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  19. Karl_TN

    Karl_TN Member Full Member

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    Mike,

    Natural edge bowls aren't the easiest woodturnings to make or finish so you need to give yourself more credit here because it looks like you're off to a great start. Just a little more work on the finish and this bowl would make someone a nice Christmas present.

    My Cole Jaws suggestion wouldn't work for your Natural Edge Bowls. Many turners use a vacuum chuck system for holding NE Bowls, but those can be expensive for many turners. It might help if you could explain how the bowl is being held when you're reverse turning to get the tenon removed.

    If your gouge is bouncing too much then try using/borrowing a freshly sharpened 'negative rake scraper' right before you start sanding. Also, don't forget one of your best finishing tools is a 80 to 120 grit gouge (i.e. sandpaper) on a drill mandrel or inertial chuck to smooth everything out.

    -Karl
     
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  20. trc65

    trc65 Member Full Member

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    On a different forum, there was a recent discussion about tools bouncing and rough uneven cuts. It was pointed out the the natural reaction to that situation is to apply a death grip to the tool and push harder into the wood. That is exactly the wrong thing to do.

    If you push harder into the wood with the tool, it will continue to follow the uneveness of the surface and you will never get it smooth. What you need to do is use a non bevel riding cut that is only removing the high spots on the area you are working. Take very thin cuts until the high spot are gone. A shear cut with a gouge, or a scraper works well for this.

    The discussion of this problem was kind of an epiphany for me and really helped the surface quality and cut down on the need for course sanding.
     
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