Dismiss Notice
Woodbarter has upgraded to HTTPS. Please see click here for all the details.

Wondering why??

Discussion in 'Turning Critique Forum' started by T. Ben, May 16, 2019.

  1. T. Ben

    T. Ben Member Full Member Thread Starter

    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    195
    Location:
    Minnesota
    First name:
    Troy
    i made this bowl a month or so ago out of kiln dried Purple Heart,it’s been sitting on the dining room table ever since. Well the wife pointed out to me that it’s not round anymore it’s kinda oblong. I don’t know if it shows up well in the pics. Any ideas on why this would happen?

    3E3047EC-3834-4CDA-9870-3A3C085CBF66.jpeg

    7CAFE956-0B98-4F53-A0C9-56EB394C79D3.jpeg
     
  2. Tony

    Tony Hardwood Enthusiast Staff Member Global Moderator Full Member

    Messages:
    14,856
    Likes Received:
    4,191
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    First name:
    Tony
    What was the moisture content when you started to turn it? If the wood was still wet as it dries it will warp. Also it might be because of different humidity from your Shop to the house. Tony
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. T. Ben

    T. Ben Member Full Member Thread Starter

    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    195
    Location:
    Minnesota
    First name:
    Troy
    I have no idea of the moisture content,I bought it of eBay as kiln dried. My garage at the time was pretty wet. Even with butcher block oil it would still do that?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Smitty

    Smitty Member Full Member

    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    186
    Location:
    Idaho
    First name:
    dan
    I've had some kiln dried walnut do that to me, and I still don't know the reason. Maybe the internal stress of the wood caused the movement after it was hollowed?
     
  5. Tony

    Tony Hardwood Enthusiast Staff Member Global Moderator Full Member

    Messages:
    14,856
    Likes Received:
    4,191
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    First name:
    Tony
    Just because someone says the wood is dry doesn't mean it is. I would buy a moisture meter if I was you, about $30. Most guys will rough turn a bowl leaving it thick, let it sit and dry more, than finish turn it.
     
  6. Karl_TN

    Karl_TN Member Full Member

    Messages:
    780
    Likes Received:
    290
    Location:
    Rosemark TN
    First name:
    Karl
    :givebeer:

    Cheaper moisture meters have a hard time determining moisture content in the middle of the thick blank. Might be a good reason to consider twice turning bowl blanks even if the seller says it was kiln dried.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. T. Ben

    T. Ben Member Full Member Thread Starter

    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    195
    Location:
    Minnesota
    First name:
    Troy
    I will look into getting one,any suggestions on the lower cost spectrum? Wouldn’t the oil seal it up? It has got humid over the last couple of days.
     
  8. woodtickgreg

    woodtickgreg scroll, flat, spin Staff Member Global Moderator Forum Moderator Founding Member Full Member

    Messages:
    13,780
    Likes Received:
    4,972
    Location:
    Eastpointe, Mi. usa
    First name:
    Greg
    Also remember, wood is always alive and it will always move.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  9. Sprung

    Sprung Amateur Sawdust Maker Full Member

    Messages:
    8,003
    Likes Received:
    3,811
    Location:
    Sanborn, MN
    First name:
    Matt
    Rule #1 of woodworking: Wood ALWAYS moves. Count on it. Understand that it's going to happen and work with it in mind - and don't try to make things in a way where you've basically said, "Yeah, right, I know better and this will be just fine!" Search out online people who have built farmhouse tables with pocket screws where they've pocket screwed on the breadboard ends and you'll find a lot of people wondering why, after 6 months or a year, there's cracks and wood separation in their table. They didn't allow the wood to move, so it self-destructs (and they probably used construction lumber straight from the store, without understanding that their "kiln dried" framing lumber is anything but actually dry.)

    As the seasons change, relative humidity changes, and the wood will release or take in moisture. And will move.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that dry for someone else isn't dry for you. And you can kiln dry a piece of wood, but once you take it out of the kiln, it will take on moisture to match the EMC (equilibrium moisture content) of the environment it's in. So, if you buy a piece of wood from someone in the wet Pacific Northwest, they can say they kiln dried it, but it might have 12% moisture content because of the higher EMC or relative humidity of the area, whereas where you are, you might expect about 5 to 6% moisture content, or maybe a touch less sometimes. Take that piece of wood at 12% in the PNW and send it to my friend @Bean_counter down in Lubbock, TX and it'll move like crazy as it adjusts to the new EMC - it's so dry there, the piece will definitely move, probably twist, and in many instances may even crack at losing moisture that fast. @Mike1950 also has experience with this, buying wood by the truck and trailer full from the wetter coastal area and taking it to the other side of WA where he lives, where it is much drier - that's even just sometimes going from one end of the state to the other.

    And then there's the shop EMC vs. house EMC. Unless your shop is climate controlled exactly the same as your house, there will likely be a difference of EMC between the two, which will also equate to wood movement in that piece that you finished and was perfectly round, but now after a month in a different environment isn't perfectly round.

    Try this one for an inexpensive moisture meter. I have the same one, well, kind of. They've changed the way it looks since I bought mine.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  10. Tony

    Tony Hardwood Enthusiast Staff Member Global Moderator Full Member

    Messages:
    14,856
    Likes Received:
    4,191
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    First name:
    Tony
    whathesaid

    That's the same meter I have, good and relatively inexpensive.
     
  11. Woodworking Vet

    Woodworking Vet Member Full Member

    Messages:
    1,061
    Likes Received:
    809
    Location:
    Spokane WA
    First name:
    David
    I stopped using a moisture meter only because it can't read the moisture in the middle of the wood. Instead I now weigh my blanks and write the weight and date right on it. I'll continue to weight it periodically and when it stops dropping in weight, or drops very little, I consider it dry.

    Wood is full of stress. Even if you take the driest of blanks and turn them you will be relieving a lot of stress in the fibers, that will cause the wood to move some in many cases. Changes in humidity can have a little affect too.

    My thought is that its perfectly fine to have an imperfect bowl. A hand crafted bowl can't be absolutely perfect. A factory crafted bowl though is usually perfect and perfectly duplicated. I would much rather have an imperfect hand made item than a perfect factory made item, if that makes sense.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  12. Mike1950

    Mike1950 Founding Member Founding Member Full Member

    Messages:
    21,824
    Likes Received:
    6,431
    Location:
    Eastern Washington
    First name:
    Mike
    Yep- it is going to dry unless you keep it in water. ebay is probably not the safest place to buy dry wood -that said -bigger the pieces the less likely they are dry. nature of beast
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  13. barry richardson

    barry richardson Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator Full Member

    Messages:
    8,023
    Likes Received:
    2,837
    Location:
    Buckeye AZ
    First name:
    Barry
    Turn twice is always the best policy, even if it is completely dry, internal stress can cause it to warp a bit, turn it, give it a few days, and turn it again. As far as kiln dried, the fir and redwood at homedepot claims to be kiln dried, and its usually still half green IMO, sot the standards for KD are pretty loose for sure....
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. William Tanner

    William Tanner Member Full Member

    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    72
    Location:
    Eastern Washington
    First name:
    William
    Great thread. I often purposely turn bowls from wet wood anticipating the results of the wood moving. Thin and wet.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. T. Ben

    T. Ben Member Full Member Thread Starter

    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    195
    Location:
    Minnesota
    First name:
    Troy
    Thanks everybody,I guess the wife will get to keep that one.
     
  16. rocky1

    rocky1 Creator of Shavings and Sawdust! Full Member

    Messages:
    8,672
    Likes Received:
    3,361
    Location:
    Way North Florida
    First name:
    Rocky
    Just tell everyone it is way more difficult to turn egg shaped bowls than it is to turn round ones. :good:

    I got several cores from Doc, let them set in the shop for nearly a year to equalize, turned one of the bigger ones, a carob blank, and have never experienced anything moving like that one did. Would get it perfectly round on the outside turn a little on the inside, outside would be out of round again. Internal stresses play a huge roll in things. Don't under estimate them. Turn once let it set awhile and turn again before finishing.
     
  17. T. Ben

    T. Ben Member Full Member Thread Starter

    Messages:
    496
    Likes Received:
    195
    Location:
    Minnesota
    First name:
    Troy
    Never thought of that,would like to see someone’s face if you told them that.:lol2: I guess I’ll have to get to work on some so they’ll be ready for next year.
     
  18. phinds

    phinds Moderator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Founding Member Full Member

    Messages:
    4,668
    Likes Received:
    1,047
    Location:
    Cortland, NY
    First name:
    Paul
    what he said (very small).jpg
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  19. rocky1

    rocky1 Creator of Shavings and Sawdust! Full Member

    Messages:
    8,672
    Likes Received:
    3,361
    Location:
    Way North Florida
    First name:
    Rocky
    Once you get past the initial look of bewilderment, and the thought processes kick in, someone is bound to ask how you do that. Be prepared with, "You just move your bowl gouge in and out real fast while the stock goes round and round. The tricky part is getting the timing down on the ins and outs so you don't take the high spots off." Then walk away slowly and leave them thinkin about it. :cool:
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
  20. SeanPEvans

    SeanPEvans Member Full Member

    Messages:
    401
    Likes Received:
    146
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    First name:
    Sean
    Ha, I meant to hit the “funny” rating, not “karma.” Still very new here :cool:
     
Current Time: 5:13 PM