Fine for shipping Lignum Vitae out of US?

[Ianmorrow]

Hey all,

I am well aware that genuine Lignum Vitae (Guaiacum) is listed on Appendix II of CITES, and therefore cannot be legally exported out of the United States.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the penalty is for shipping it out of the US? I have a customer who is quite irritated with me because I will not ship Lignum to the UK. He is insistent that customs will not pick up a piece of Lignum that is as small as a guitar pick. I personally do not want to ship it out of the country for two reasons:

1. I want to maintain a professional reputation for my business, and not make illegal exceptions for certain customers.

2. I want to honor the international trade agreement regarding the trade of Lignum Vitae, because I believe that it is one of the most incredible woods in the world.

I would like to know the penalty of illegally exporting this wood so I can tell this customer why I will not ship it out of the US, and what is at stake. Any other advice about the situation would be great!

Thanks!

 

[Fret440]

If you know where it came from, and it's legal, and you have the documentation, you should be able to purchase a waiver to be able to ship it. Personally, I would be more worried about wood coming back in to the U.S. let me see if I can find you a link to get you more info.

Here's a link to NAMM:

http://www.namm.org/publicaffairs

CBP at .gov:

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/trade/trade_programs/entry_summary/laws/food_energy/amended_lacey_act/guidance_lacey_act.xml

Cites page:

http://www.cites.org/index.php

From MIMF (forum discussion)

http://www.mimf.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1042&hilit=Lacey+act

http://www.mimf.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=288&hilit=Lacey+act


Hope these point in the right direction.



Jacob

 

[Kevin]

... I have a customer who is quite irritated with me because I will not ship Lignum to the UK. ...

Just be honest and tell him you've never dealt with the exceptions rules of the CITES regs before and are investigating your options to be 100% you're within the confines of the regulations. In the meantime see if you can wade through Fret's links and figure it out - if you are so inclined to make this guy happy. It's not like you'll be sending LV overseas enough to warrant become an exporter of it. When dealing with demanding/difficult customers like this over the years (with different issues) my strategy has always been to give them a full yet concise explanation on a matter the first time, and then after that if they continue to harangue me I will give them very little by way of further explanation - something like "I can't really explain it better than I have. If and when the situation changes I'll surely let you know."

As a last resort and you get one of those one percenters who tries to make your life miserable with constant badgering, you can always release the flying monkeys.

 

[NYWoodturner]

Just a question for those of you more in the know - bit it might help his plight here...
Is it illegal to export the raw lumber or a finished product made from it? It see,s to me I remember there being a differentiation in past conversations

 

[Fret440]

I'm not sure what the difference is. I do know that I have a guitar with Brazillian on it that won't be traveling because there's no way to show provenance of the wood and whether it is pre Cites listing or not. I know it was built post-cites, don't know when it was harvested. I am under the impression, right or wrong, that if you can prove provenance then it's not a problem to get it out of the U.S., just getting it back in. (Hence why I won't travel with said guitar.)

I also think that it might depend on the particular customs agent your package goes by and what they know about the thousand items on cites and how it impacts the laws of the U.S. and whatever country it is going to or from.

Fwiw,

Jacob

 

[Ianmorrow]

Thanks for your help, Jacob and Kevin. I really appreciate it. I was able to sort it out, and in the end I have a happy customer.