Advise for power and manual tools

[Athan]

I missed the half garage. Bandsaw is definitely a must have and a jointer or planer is unbelievably useful. (I used to have a jointer)

I would joint a straight face and edge. Then bandsaw to a parallel face. Hand plane everything to final dimensions and your done. It even works on larger things. The only limit is the jointer and bandsaw.

Hand tools is the original best way but my aging fingers and hand will disagree! I’m having a hobby and I’m not interested in my 60s to have extra pains and discomfort just to be original. I thought flexibility and adjustment is part of woodworking philosophy! Thanks

 

[Athan]

I missed the half garage. Bandsaw is definitely a must have and a jointer or planer is unbelievably useful. (I used to have a jointer)

I would joint a straight face and edge. Then bandsaw to a parallel face. Hand plane everything to final dimensions and your done. It even works on larger things. The only limit is the jointer and bandsaw

 

[Athan]

agreed/Thank you

 

[daniscool]

@Eric Rorabaugh or some other mod. We have a double post!

 

[SENC]

Hand tools is the original best way but my aging fingers and hand will disagree! I’m having a hobby and I’m not interested in my 60s to have extra pains and discomfort just to be original. I thought flexibility and adjustment is part of woodworking philosophy! Thanks

To be clear, "originality" is of no interest to me. I do like traditional, in general, but my transition towards more hand tools has nothing to do with that.

Frankly, as I get older, I prefer the hand tools for a few reasons. First, they are much easier and safer to use (and store). I'm tired of moving around heavy equipment due to space limitations, and as my physical abilities aren't what they were when I was younger I am all about making things easier and safer. Second, I find I'm getting less tolerant of long periods of wearing a mask and of wearing ear protection - both absolute musts with machining wood. Since I'm also a turner, reducing noise and dust when doing other woodworking is a priority for my plan in extending my longevity as a woodworker. Third, also due to aging, I'm constantly looking for opportunities for functional exercise (I hate going to the gym). I'm finding my initial forays into sharpening, planing, and hand sawing to be great exercise... enjoyable and rejuvenating. Last, and this was not expected when I started learning more about using hand tools, I'm finding them to be more accurate than my machine tools for fine flat work (I'm only just getting into flat work). As an example, I've only tried dovetails a few times in my life... but found them much easier and better fitting when cut with a decent handsaw than I did with my tablesaw (and without requiring fancy jigs or extensive setup time).

Bottom line, I want to spend more time working with wood and less in tool moving and setup, I want some exercise while doing it, and I prioritize comfort, ease, and safety - and I hope to extend my time in this hobby as long as I can. Hand tools fit that lifestyle choice. They may not fit your needs/wants and that's totally ok - just wanted to offer the suggestion given your space and budget limitations.

EDIT: I meant to make a DC recommendation, as you seem more inclined on the power tools path. After trying various over the years, I invested in an Oneida SuperCell, and it has been a significant improvement over previous DCs. It takes as little (or less) space as any decent DC and is quieter thab most (but still loud... if there is anyway you can set up your DC outside your shop, I definitely would). Instead of running lots of expensive metal ducting and gates, I ran a main pipe to a "distribution center" - I just slide the main pipe from station to station (lathe, bandsaw/router table, vacuum, tablesaw). I'll post some pictures of the DC and distribution center. I've also added a high quality air purifier to remove fine dust from the air (RabbitAire), and that may be the single best investment I've ever made in my shop. But fair warning, building a dust collection and air filtration system that actually works efficiently and makes your workspace safe will cost at least 25% of your budget, maybe more.

 

[Athan]

I missed the half garage. Bandsaw is definitely a must have and a jointer or planer is unbelievably useful. (I used to have a jointer)

I would joint a straight face and edge. Then bandsaw to a parallel face. Hand plane everything to final dimensions and your done. It even works on larger things. The only limit is the jointer and bandsaw.

I

I missed the half garage. Bandsaw is definitely a must have and a jointer or planer is unbelievably useful. (I used to have a jointer)

I would joint a straight face and edge. Then bandsaw to a parallel face. Hand plane everything to final dimensions and your done. It even works on larger things. The only limit is the jointer and bandsaw.

To be clear, "originality" is of no interest to me. I do like traditional, in general, but my transition towards more hand tools has nothing to do with that.

Frankly, as I get older, I prefer the hand tools for a few reasons. First, they are much easier and safer to use (and store). I'm tired of moving around heavy equipment due to space limitations, and as my physical abilities aren't what they were when I was younger I am all about making things easier and safer. Second, I find I'm getting less tolerant of long periods of wearing a mask and of wearing ear protection - both absolute musts with machining wood. Since I'm also a turner, reducing noise and dust when doing other woodworking is a priority for my plan in extending my longevity as a woodworker. Third, also due to aging, I'm constantly looking for opportunities for functional exercise (I hate going to the gym). I'm finding my initial forays into sharpening, planing, and hand sawing to be great exercise... enjoyable and rejuvenating. Last, and this was not expected when I started learning more about using hand tools, I'm finding them to be more accurate than my machine tools for fine flat work (I'm only just getting into flat work). As an example, I've only tried dovetails a few times in my life... but found them much easier and better fitting when cut with a decent handsaw than I did with my tablesaw (and without requiring fancy jigs or extensive setup time).

Bottom line, I want to spend more time working with wood and less in tool moving and setup, I want some exercise while doing it, and I prioritize comfort, ease, and safety - and I hope to extend my time in this hobby as long as I can. Hand tools fit that lifestyle choice.

Well said. As a health professional I could not agree more. I will strongly consider this. I’m just wondering how easy is to cur rip or cross a 4”-6” thick hard wood and still consider it exercis. How about 8 feet rip with 4” thick beech it hard maple?

 

[SENC]

1/2 garage shop - note, no tablesaw in this space, it just doesn't fit. Everything else is mobile and gets moved around (or outside) when I need the tablesaw.



SuperCell


DC distribution center

 

[SENC]

I



Well said. As a health professional I could not agree more. I will strongly consider this. I’m just wondering how easy is to cur rip or cross a 4”-6” thick hard wood and still consider it exercis. How about 8 feet rip with 4” thick beech it hard maple?

Crosscut, no problem by hand... but like you I wouldn't want to rip it. With a good bandsaw, ripping that would be no problem (a primary reason I'll never get rid of mine - if anything, I might get a bigger bandsaw one day, but can do most things I want safely and easily on my 14).

I had a chop/miter saw complete with cabinet and self-built arms in a prior shop - just don't have space in my current shop for the full thing. I still have the saw, but almost never use it. I'd feel differently if I needed to do a bunch of similar cuts, but I rarely need to do that - and in the rare number of times I do my tablesaw with a good mitre gauge is almost as easy and more accurate. But for just a few crosscuts I'm more likely to grab a handsaw than either.

 

[Nature Man]

Thank you for the welcoming Guys ! My first post was short, not detailed and time restricted and I apologize. To the details now,
i‘m interested to build an array of different projects, from boxes to modern furniture, excluding kitchen cabinets , house doors etc ! Always for my own hobby without plans for professional activities. I want to start by building my own wood-shop furniture (woodworking benches,tables for saw in-feed and out-feed , router/miter saw tables/stands, storage solutions for tools etc. For the last year I have studied multiple books starting with the fundamentals. I have taken and pass a few woodworking knowledge tests but with very little hands on experience except custom teak inserts for wooden boxes with a scroll saw . I’ve been looking for tools for about the same time as well. Multiple searches included, recognized woodworking sites/ hundreds of hours of YouTube videos etc. it seems that (like everything else ) everyone has a different opinion and all present themselves as experts ! Very confusing. My not expert search with the $7000-$8000 budget ,lead me to the following options
Table saw: Saw stop 1.75hp contractors saw. Miter saw: Dewalt bi-level 10”. Jointer: Grizzly 8” with 13”-15” Planer Dewalt vs Grizzly or Jet. Router with table: Bosch. Dust collection: Laguna B-flux or Jet 1.5hp cyclone Drill press: Nova voyager or Laguna. The rest of the budget will be used for accessories like blades, clamps, bits, jigs, safety etc. I have a wen band saw and an old craftsman 71/4 circular saw with a new blade and and an accu-set track ( I’m planing to upgrade it) I have a driver and a Bosch drill already with the appropriate drill bits. I’m not interested of cordless tools once I’m planning to use them on the shop and carry them to sites. Always I include the mobile bases for each one of them .Any suggestions, additions and evaluation of the above list would be greatly appreciated!

I like your well thought out approach of tools, etc. The only thing I would recommend is that you consider a 12" Miter saw vs a 10". There are occasions when that extra 2" makes a difference, and the extra cost is just not that much. And I like the DeWalt brand. Chuck

 

[JonathanH]

You have put a lot of effort into the tool choices. I have a garage shop as well.

I have a 12" DeWalt miter saw that I moved to the storage unit. I rarely have a need for it and was constantly moving it around to use other tools. Crosscuts are made on the table saw with a quality sled. For those occasional cuts too long for the table saw I use a handheld circular saw.

For the table saw I've gone thru a couple of contractor saws, a Craftsman with a crappy fence & a Delta with an Incra fence. The Incra fence was fantastic but always in the way. I now have a 5-horse PM cabinet saw. Overkill for my modest needs, but this came up in a deal and I was done with the contractor saws.

Consider dust collection & air filtration. Sooner rather than later if you are buying power tools. I don't have it,....yet.

Bandsaw -14" is a minimum. Larger is a plus, the footprint isn't much larger.

15" planer? I have a 15" Delta on wheels. It's always in the way as well. I'm not a fan of of benchtop planers but a lunchbox planer on a flip top roll around cabinet that you build with another piece of equipment on the other side should be considered.

Drill press - consider vintage iron. Much better quality than the current new offerings. There is always something recently refurbished by an older gentleman that is up for sale on Craigslist or FBMP. Cost-effective as well.

Router table / 8" jointer - you're already out of space. Not sure where these will fit. I have a tabletop router table that lives under the scroll saw. I am very fond of the 8" jointer. I have to roll stuff out to be able to move around and work.

I'm learning more about hand tools and find them interesting. Simple. Quiet. Low cost. No dust. Space savers.

A sheet of graph paper mapping out your shop will help you with a good layout.

What are the chances that you can have both sidesof the garage for your shop?
Good luck.

 

[daniscool]

Who said hand tools are low cost? Yes I’m looking at you bridge city.

 

[JonathanH]

Who said hand tools are low cost? Yes I’m looking at you bridge city.

Or Lie Nelson.

Relatively low cost.

 

[daniscool]

Or Lie Nelson.

Relatively low cost.

Good point. Their drawknife is 220 bucks and is factory made and hand sharpened. Strongway tools in Ukraine makes handmade tools and has higher quality controls yet only costs 170 and occasionally has discounts. Lie nielsen is just tomfoolery. For every one of their products there is a comparable cheaper and sometimes even better option.

To the “cheap” hand tools: Karl holtey or Konrad Sauer make custom hand planes. Karl holteys panel planes cost upwards of 7000 bucks. That would be all of athan’s budget. For one plane.

 

[Mike Hill]

Athan, as much as I don't want to admit to agreeing to a pork bbq eater, I'm in the same boat (pun intended) as @SENC. Band saw is a must. Good compound miter saw is a must (for me). Contractor sized table saw would be nice for ripping - if you don't intend to rip, then may not be needed. The rest, nice to have if you need them. All in all, the tools you need, unless you just like to have tools around you, are the ones you need for THE projects that you do. If you intend to only make boxes out of S4S wood, lots of what you noted in power tools are not needed, If you intend to go to the sawmill and buy a bunch of rough lumber to make highboys, then that is another story. I'm very nearly 70 and just got rid of a table saw - I had not used it in 20 years. I have a cheapo plastic bodied contractor's saw if I need to rip something. Next to go are a couple of router tables. I have not used them. Then the bench top jointer will go - again, not using. May keep my small planer - even though I have not used it much lately, it used to get a lot of use. That will leave me a lathe or two, a bandsaw, miter saw, scroll saw, a knife grinder and a compressor. I do not have a workbench, I make do outside with a Jawhorse, a folding bench, and pickup tailgate - and sometimes the sidewalk.

I've recently bought a number of handsaws and have been enjoying the act of sawing. In addition, as Henry said, not bad exercise. I don't power carve as much as I used to, the act of hitting a chisel and keeping one sharp is satisfying to my soul. I'm gonna keep the pneumatic chisels and right angle grinders, though, for the stonework.

Been wanting to buy a contractor's saw-stop, but have not written the check yet - it's a lot of money for a tool, I might not use much. I might get one, if I find a need for one more than I have now.

There are one's here on WB, that would advise me to get rid of all my tools, they are useless, as it is well known that I never make anything - only whoard! But I just plug up my ears! I guess what I am trying to say. I'm not sure it would be the wisest decision to go all in with tools until you know what you want to make. You might wind up buying something you don't need or notl use, or something undersized or such. And as Frank mentioned, the secondary market is not a bad thing. During 2020, we had a lot of bored dudes that thought they needed a hobby and decided woodwork was it. They found out that they'd rather golf, drink, and bet on sports, and that woodworking wasn't exciting enough, and they got rid of their new tool purchases and the secondary market was flooded with good deals on barley used tools. Would I like to have every tool in it's place at my beck and call whenever I want? Sure I would, but I have been delegated by my boss lady, to about 1/2 of a what used to be a single car garage from the 50's - so I have to make do and am not able to do some types of woodworking.

 

[Mike Hill]

Good point. Their drawknife is 220 bucks and is factory made and hand sharpened. Strongway tools in Ukraine makes handmade tools and has higher quality controls yet only costs 170 and occasionally has discounts. Lie nielsen is just tomfoolery.

I just bought a drawknife on Saturday for $10 at an antique sale. Latest HSS - nope, but it is 11" blade and will do well for it's intent. Never mind that it might be my 20th drawknife.

HNT Gordon planes and other tools don't count. He makes em outta some very purdy Australian woods and would be a pleasure just to own. I ogled and caressed one at the AAW Symposium in Chattanooga a few years ago - it was outta ringed gidgee and was downright salacious!

 

[SENC]

If I were to add one power tool to my shop (other than upgrading my bandsaw), and since I already have an investment in a DC system, it would be a thickness sander. I'd rather have that than a powered planer. I find sanding much less fun than planing, and having now used a decent thickness sander at the non-profit workshop where I volunteer and seen both how quiet it is and how little dust it puts in the air with good DC, it tops my power wishlist. But will only go there if/when I get enough other power tools out to make space.

 

[daniscool]

If I were to add one power tool to my shop (other than upgrading my bandsaw), and since I already have an investment in a DC system, it would be a thickness sander. I'd rather have that than a powered planer. I find sanding much less fun than planing, and having now used a decent thickness planer at the non-profit workshop where I volunteer and seen both how quiet it is and how little dust it puts in the air with good DC, it tops my power wishlist. But will only go there if/when I get enough other power tools out to make space.

Get good with a smoothing plane. Then you can skip sanding all together. One of the few tools where spending 200 bucks is worth it. Wood river makes a good one that is available in the US. You can also restore some old ones.

 

[SENC]

Get good with a smoothing plane. Then you can skip sanding all together. One of the few tools where spending 200 bucks is worth it. Wood river makes a good one that is available in the US. You can also restore some old ones.

Agree... and good scrapers for things like end grain cutting boards. But if glue-ups are even a hair off, planing or scraping can be a challenge.

 

[ripjack13]

Howdy Athan, welcome to the club....

 

[300LW]

A jointer is the one tool I thought I could do without until I got one in a trade. For me it is indispensable. While you can take cup and twist out of a board in other ways, the jointer is so much faster and easier. Mine is only 8" wide, which is enough for 90% of what I do, but I have a friend with a 30" so I'm covered for just about anything.