Braz Rosewood
- Thread starter Greenacres2
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Yeah, thuya probably isn't the right description--but there's an exotic overtone to the chocolate scent. Not a chocolate smell like zebra wood...much richer. And the smell stayed in my nose for hours after i made that cut, not a bad thing.
I think the pores are too small to be pau ferro though that name denotes a whole genus and can with certainty prove me wrong.
Seems awfully light colored to be camatillo, no? Is camatillo a common tone wood? If it is in fact camatillo, I'd still be interested. My interest in camatillo is mostly in the purple heartwood, which this piece clearly does not have. But if it's camatillo, that's a pretty big piece considering how short the tree/shrub is at maturity. I only have a small turning blank of camatillo in my collection, and i feel it's a really gorgeous wood in general. I wish it was more readily available.
Camatillo is a good match for both face and end grain, and the color is consistent with aged camatillo.
Camatillo does have a purple Color to begin with and keeps more color than say purpleheart but it will turn brown with time. And yes that piece is massive. If that is Camatillo then that is not only a bargain but also a rarity.
Agreed.
Though i haven't had any issues with purpleheart losing color yet. I had a couple sticks from Cooks that readily turned brown, but the rest of my supply has held color very well. Some seems to have deepened in purple color actually. I've heard anecdotally that the color shift can go both ways depending on the exact species. I've purchased purpleheart more than probably any other species next to maple, and the majority of my stock has stayed vibrant purple over the relatively short time I've been woodworking (a little under 1.5 years). I also baked some purpleheart to hold the color as i was aware of the color shift issues and discovered this method may eliminate the shift. So far it's worked, but like i said I've also seen little color change with the unbaked supply too. This is an area I've probably invested way too much of my time lol
Can you do a little tutorial thread or similar? I don’t have experience with this and would be interested in making my purpleheart stay purple. Do you know which exact species keeps its Color better? My local wood importer has the contacts to ask for specific species within a genus because his contacts cut down trees on contract meaning that they only cut a tree if they already have a buyer. (It’s really cool)
The basis for my method is the 3 part video series below (only part 1 is linked, but the other 2 parts are on his channel). The guy shows that his test pieces held their color for 5 years and counting.
I've found that the times for baking are largely dependent on the size of the piece (duh). The first time i did it, i baked a couple 1.5" x 1.5" x 18" sticks @ 300°F for 45min and got great results. The second time, i baked about 4bf of 8/4 @ 300°F for an hour, and i don't think it was enough time. However, at the hour mark, the wood started oozing out lots of oil, so i had to stop baking to avoid a major cleanup.
You definitely also want to put down plenty of cookie sheets or tin foil to catch oils. My first bake job didn't really leak any oils, but the second one was a big mess. I put down sheets, but i didn't put anything on the racks. I had the wood directly on the racks, and that was a mistake... Took forever to clean off the burnt oil. I did a subsequent test with test pieces of a couple dozen other species, and in some cases those were very messy too (leopardwood, Argentine lignum vitae, and verawood were the worst).
None of the suppliers I've used for purpleheart have ever indicated the exact species, but I've never attempted to ask either. They all always just list it as Peltogyne spp. Wikipedia says their are 23 different species under that common name. I've heard anecdotally that it's closer to 30. Nobody seems concerned with identifying the unique species for some reason, and that may be the cause for the apparent discrepancy in material properties observed by many who use purpleheart.
Ryan,
I can not say it is or is not, nor give the certainties you are looking for. No, Camatillo is not a common tone wood, but does have tonal qualities and has a history of being used in musical instruments. I was talking about Dalbergia congestiflora. Edit This species is a medium sized tree and can reach 100 feet tall with a 3 foot DBH. These sizes are under review and likely greatly over sized. The wood can have dark streaks, shades of brown, shades of red and shades of purple. It can also lack having streaks and show a single consistent color. The pore size and color were the main reasons why I thought such.
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I understand about not being able to confirm a species. I was hoping there might be a consensus on which species this piece is most likely to be based on the collective knowledge of the wood IDing experts in this forum such as yourself. But i certainly wouldn't want a compelled guess, and I'm sure Earl wouldn't either.
Dalbergia congestiflora is what i was referring to as well. Wood DB says it's 10-24ft tall and has a 6-8in trunk diameter, which is where my assumptions about the size of camatillo comes from. That's quite a ways from 100ft tall and 3ft diameter. Are you suggesting this data is not correct or that we are talking about 2 different plants here?
I also thought that it was a small tree.
I see, wonder why Eric has that. There are many sites that list it as a medium sized tree. Location may play part as well. Hop-hornbeam in the Poconos of PA rarely exceeds 50 feet tall and 10" DBH. In central New York it is often found 75 feet tall with 12-18" DBH. There is a tree in a Cortland NY cemetery that has dozens of burls, with nearly a 36" DBH.
Here is some Dalbergia fun:
chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/https://brill.com/downloadpdf/view/journals/iawa/17/3/article-p327_5.pdf
That's makes sense. I skimmed through that paper, and it seems like there's still some confusion on identification. First, i wouldn't have guessed that camatillo was only classified with a botanical name 30-40yrs ago. That's a lot more recent than i was expecting. The paper provides tree dimensions that seem to agree with wood DB, but i also wonder if this data is still accurate given that it's been formulated at the 'discovery' of this species... Things could change over the years.
This table could also prove useful. Not included in the table is the fact that alcohol extract of dalbergia congestiflora was observed to be lightly reactive to UV (blue-green).
The paper identified 4 groups of dalbergia species in the region, and one of those groups is comprised of dalbergia congestiflora and dalbergia funera. They note that both of these species are extremely rare and not commercially available. I subsequently tried to search dalbergia funera, and all sources are pointing me to dalbergia retusa (a cocobolo species). It seems maybe these two have since been combined? I'm not really sure what to make of it, but i can't find any unique common name or other information for dalbergia funera.
And growth conditions (soil, etc). See my purpleheart page.
Wow I didnt realize you'd gotten so much into the color aspect of purpleheart, including the baking. When I was researching baking the wood, I found almost no resources on the topic. And in subsequent discussions in various groups, nobody else seems to know anything about it.
In response to your comments about the odor from baking, in my two experiences baking purpleheart there was little to no odor. If anything, it was just a subtle and non-specific 'wood roasting' smell. It wasn't anything similar to the smell when working the wood, and it wasn't unusual or unique smelling in any way.
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So, Eric responded and basically said he researched a lot of the sites that lists the other sizes and found that most just parrot each other and do not go back to any sound base. He presented a link which looks to be the very same one I provided.
So I withdraw my size comments above as it sounds that Dalbergia congestiflora is a small tree. However, even a few universities and botanical sites list larger sizes. My personal sample looks to have come from an 8-10" DBH. Sorry I was not more helpful.
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No, its all helpful, as was you contacting Eric about this. Thanks for doing that. Its all in the interest of education in the end.
I could see data getting mixed up as classifications evolve over the years. In the discussion above, its pretty clear that the physical characteristics of purpleheart vary by species, so I don't think it would be unreasonable for the 20-30 species of purpleheart to be split off into their own subcategories in the future and given different botanical names. Perhaps similar has been done with 'camatillo', especially when you consider the paper notes that dalbergia congestiflora was initially being sold as cocobolo.