CITES ban on live trees only?

[Mike1950]

I didn't even know whales had teeth. I thought they all had baleen Hmm actually I guess Orcas have teeth dont they? This is the most thought Ive ever put into this topic in my life.

Sperms whales have huge teeth. 7-8" long x4" base. I have a picture somewhere. Lots of schrimshaw on sperm whale teeth.

 

[Mike Hill]

I didn't even know whales had teeth. I thought they all had baleen Hmm actually I guess Orcas have teeth dont they? This is the most thought Ive ever put into this topic in my life.

Mainly when talking about whale teeth, especially with scrimshaw, sperm whale. Others have teeth, including narwhals, beluga and others.

 

[Cloud of Sawdust Farms]

I didn't even know whales had teeth. I thought they all had baleen Hmm actually I guess Orcas have teeth dont they? This is the most thought Ive ever put into this topic in my life.

Orcas, belugas, sperm whales, narwhals, dolphins, and beaked whales all have teeth. Baleen whales develop tooth buds as fetuses, but these buds get completely reabsorbed and replaced with baleen before birth.

You may or may not have actually wanted to know this, but, well, a prof's gonna prof.

 

[Mr. Peet]

Orcas, belugas, sperm whales, narwhals, dolphins, and beaked whales all have teeth. Baleen whales develop tooth buds as fetuses, but these buds get completely reabsorbed and replaced with baleen before birth.

You may or may not have actually wanted to know this, but, well, a prof's gonna prof.

The question was of those animals are you allowed to own any of their teeth. Example, walking a public beech and find a tooth.

 

[Mike Hill]

That's where it gets sticky. And depends on the state and possibly the area, as in you cannot collect on public lands/parks. If private, you'd better check with the owner. Federal regulations allow collecting the remains of dead Sea Otter, Walrus, and Polar Bear, but you have to register them and cannot sell, trade, or give them away without the express permission of the USF&WS. You can collect on the beach or within 1/4 mile of the ocean (i.e., shores of backwaters), but cannot collect in the ocean itself. Now whales, seals, sea lions, dolphins (not the fish mahi-mahi), and porpoises are regulated by the National Marine Fisheries Service and cannot be collected. There may be some type of registration/license you may be able to get for scientific purposes, but otherwise, no.

 

[Mike1950]

That's where it gets sticky. And depends on the state and possibly the area, as in you cannot collect on public lands/parks. If private, you'd better check with the owner. Federal regulations allow collecting the remains of dead Sea Otter, Walrus, and Polar Bear, but you have to register them and cannot sell, trade, or give them away without the express permission of the USF&WS. You can collect on the beach or within 1/4 mile of the ocean (i.e., shores of backwaters), but cannot collect in the ocean itself. Now whales, seals, sea lions, dolphins (not the fish mahi-mahi), and porpoises are regulated by the National Marine Fisheries Service and cannot be collected. There may be some type of registration/license you may be able to get for scientific purposes, but otherwise, no.

Exceptions for natives though. They can harvest collect and sell. I think it has to be signed and be finished goods such as carving or scrimshaw.

 

[Mike Hill]

The question was of those animals are you allowed to own any of their teeth. Example, walking a public beech and find a tooth.

So, yes, you can own a whale tooth - as long as you have proof of pre-1972 or it was bought from a "native American" who legally collected it and decorated it. But as a "non-native American", you cannot collect one from the wild or own one collected from the wild by a "non-native American" I would assume it would be the same for endangered seals, sea lions, dolphins, and porpoises. But better check. Years ago, I had started collecting antique scrimshawed teeth and powder flasks of whale teeth (very rare), but sold them all when it all got tooooooo complicated for proof of pre-CITES.

 

[Mr. Peet]

Exceptions for natives though. They can harvest collect and sell. I think it has to be signed and be finished goods such as carving or scrimshaw.

Natives....ya, our family came here on a big boat in 1635 so still not local. Now my wife is part Oneida Indian. So can part of her collect. My kids would be even a smaller part Native. Wonder what the percentages have to be? Where is Liz Warren when you need her?

 

[Jperry93]

Seal and sea lions might be back on menu. Mouth of the Columbia up to the dams are full of them. 1000's. Sit at dam base and slaughter salmon. Talk finally of curtailing their numbers. Might be native hunts.
I also long ago got rid of any dicey stuff. Everything is is old or older. 1950 is probably newest. But proof. They are dead. Native Alaskan can still sell also Canadian. I do not think hippo ivory is as regulated. I think hippos kill more people than any other animal.

On the subject, I wonder if the same regulation applies to giraffe bone. A friend had a "chunk" of antique giraffe bone and used it to turn a part of a spindle - it certainly looked close to actual ivory when turned, but I am not sure. - probably similar to other animal bone/tusks I would imagine

 

[Mike Hill]

Natives....ya, our family came here on a big boat in 1635 so still not local. Now my wife is part Oneida Indian. So can part of her collect.

Mine came over in 1730's so not native either - maybe in Northern Ireland we could. 1635 - so they came with the great Pilgrim migration! Did they get involved in the Hurricane. Do you know which Ship. The pastor of the church I reluctantly attend - his family also arrived in 1635 on the ship America at Jamestown. It was fun doing his genealogy.

Don't think they would allow Upper NY Indians (Oneida) to collect whale teeth. Think only the Alaskan, and some Upper West Coast tribes. Would be interesting to know at what percentage Indian you would have to be, to be able to collect and sale.

 

[Mike Hill]

On the subject, I wonder if the same regulation applies to giraffe bone. A friend had a "chunk" of antique giraffe bone and used it to turn a part of a spindle - it certainly looked close to actual ivory when turned, but I am not sure. - probably similar to other animal bone/tusks I would imagine

Like, seemingly everything else, giraffe bones are regulated, but not as severely as marine mammals and endangered species. Although afoot, there are groups trying to get them more severely regulated. Right now, you can own, buy, and sell. They are a CITES Appendix II listing, which basically means there are International Trade Laws that regulate, but not prohibit.

 

[Big Ry]

Natives....ya, our family came here on a big boat in 1635 so still not local. Now my wife is part Oneida Indian. So can part of her collect. My kids would be even a smaller part Native. Wonder what the percentages have to be? Where is Liz Warren when you need her?

I am very fortunate in that my great great grandfather - Karl Fehr - was an an amateur genealogist (and a full time professor of German at Pennstate), and he did a lot of research into our family history - dating it all the way back to present day Germany in the year 1187. Our family came to America in 1739 on the "Jamaica", as per my great great grandfather's typewritten notes below. One of the more interesting but sad bits from this collection of work is the handwritten letters to a friend in Germany who was helping my great great grandfather with the family research. In the letter, the German spoke of the famine and death resulting from World War I, and he pleaded with my great great grandfather to send him food.

On the native note, my first girlfriend was part native American. Both of her parents were part native American (I forget which tribe) and part German. They were both from a very small town called Manistique in the upper peninsula of Michigan, which is where my ex was born before moving all over the country due to her father's service in the Navy. They ultimately ended up here in Bucks county, and her father ended his military career at Willow Grove Naval Base. The reason I say this is because my ex ended up going to college in Michigan, because the tribe paid her tuition but only if it was a Michigan school. I forget what percentage native she was, but it was on the lower end (maybe 25%). I don't believe they had any sort of a hard requirement to be a minimum percentage native. I think you just needed to prove a link to the tribe.

 

[Nature Man]

I am very fortunate in that my great great grandfather - Karl Fehr - was an an amateur genealogist (and a full time professor of German at Pennstate), and he did a lot of research into our family history - dating it all the way back to present day Germany in the year 1187. Our family came to America in 1739 on the "Jamaica", as per my great great grandfather's typewritten notes below. One of the more interesting but sad bits from this collection of work is the handwritten letters to a friend in Germany who was helping my great great grandfather with the family research. In the letter, the German spoke of the famine and death resulting from World War I, and he pleaded with my great great grandfather to send him food.

On the native note, my first girlfriend was part native American. Both of her parents were part native American (I forget which tribe) and part German. They were both from a very small town called Manistique in the upper peninsula of Michigan, which is where my ex was born before moving all over the country due to her father's service in the Navy. They ultimately ended up here in Bucks county, and her father ended his military career at Willow Grove Naval Base. The reason I say this is because my ex ended up going to college in Michigan, because the tribe paid her tuition but only if it was a Michigan school. I forget what percentage native she was, but it was on the lower end (maybe 25%). I don't believe they had any sort of a hard requirement to be a minimum percentage native. I think you just needed to prove a link to the tribe.

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Fascinating! I’m big into ancestry, and have some Indian blood on my Dad’s side that leads back to Pocahontas. Apparently, one of my clan married the sister of Pocahontas! But that was generations ago. Chuck

 

[Gdurfey]

No one mentioned Elk teeth. Well, only 2, but was told to be sure to take them if I ever successfully hunt one.

 

[Big Ry]

Fascinating! I’m big into ancestry, and have some Indian blood on my Dad’s side that leads back to Pocahontas. Apparently, one of my clan married the sister of Pocahontas! But that was generations ago. Chuck

So Elizabeth Warren is a distant cousin I assume Maybe you can help Mark!

 

[Mike Hill]

No one mentioned Elk teeth. Well, only 2, but was told to be sure to take them if I ever successfully hunt one.

As long as they were legally hunted and harvested, they are generally ok, but need to check the states involved. There is a myriad of laws and proof requirements, when selling, trading, or giving away.

 

[Mike Hill]

Fascinating! I’m big into ancestry, and have some Indian blood on my Dad’s side that leads back to Pocahontas. Apparently, one of my clan married the sister of Pocahontas! But that was generations ago. Chuck

For decades, I thought I had a smidgen of Cherokee - that's what Grandma thought. But doing my ancestry, I find no evidence of it, Neither does DNA tests done on myself and siblings -

 

[Mike1950]

For decades, I thought I had a smidgen of Cherokee - that's what Grandma thought. But doing my ancestry, I find no evidence of it, Neither does DNA tests done on myself and siblings -

I am on other side of coin. Great, great,Great uncle's residence is Custers tomb. Ben Stafford 133 lbs and 5'8"