Most chatoyant wood species?

[Mr. Peet]

I disagree. Only the last couple of grits need to be new. All the previous, lower, grits can be old and you'll still get the same result.

I follow your point Paul, going from A to B. You are interested in comparing the two, not the progress between. Think Chuck was also hinting the comparison of all points between to some depth. A gauging of tenacity, resistance, density, and structural influence on results. Too much for me, but someone might try.

 

[phinds]

I follow your point Paul, going from A to B. You are interested in comparing the two, not the progress between. Think Chuck was also hinting the comparison of all points between to some depth. A gauging of tenacity, resistance, density, and structural influence on results. Too much for me, but someone might try.

Ah ... right, if you're going to check chatoyancy after every grit, as Paolo did on one sample, then it probably is a good idea to not let any of the grits get worn down much.

 

[chatometry]

Take a look at my purpleheart page for a discussion.

Interesting stuff! When cooking, did you also notice an effect on chatoyance?

cause extensive micro fractures in the wood which are easy to see at 10X.

What grit would this be caused by? Fine, coarse, or both? Thanks for sharing your end-grain sanding sequence (on your website).

I will see if I can have the progressive grit vs chatoyance test repeated with a full set of brand new discs...

 

[phinds]

Interesting stuff! When cooking, did you also notice an effect on chatoyance?

I've never paid attention to chatoyancy in purpleheart because I haven't noticed it to HAVE any.

What grit would this be caused by? Fine, coarse, or both? Thanks for sharing your end-grain sanding sequence (on your website).

Happens w/ the fine grit. It's the heat that does it and the fine grits heat up the wood more than the coarse grits. I wouldn't worry about it w/ the face grain though. Now, the carmalization that Mark mentioned might be an issue. That's something I had not even heard of before.

 

[chatometry]

Thank you @phinds.
On some of our purpleheart samples we found some chatoyance; this is the only figured one I could find:

It can also caramelize and crystallize depending on heat created.

Is this something easy to detect? Or is it a subtle alteration which requires a dedicated inspection to detect?

 

[phinds]

Thank you @phinds.
On some of our purpleheart samples we found some chatoyance; this is the only figured one I could find:

Oh, I wasn't suggesting it never has any, I just haven't ever experienced it that I can recall.

 

[Mr. Peet]

Thank you @phinds.
On some of our purpleheart samples we found some chatoyance; this is the only figured one I could find:
View attachment 215501


Is this something easy to detect? Or is it a subtle alteration which requires a dedicated inspection to detect?

Caramelization often is just tagged as 'scorch' or 'burnt' by most wood workers. When it is subtle, it often is overlooked or taken as a hue / color. Happens more often as said, when polishing and working finer grits.

 

[chatometry]

@phinds
@Mr. Peet
@Mike Hill
@Arn213
@2feathers Creative Making

We ran the planned Quartersawn vs Flatsawn test on London Plane, with this sample layout:


Quartersawn surface shows the distinctive flecks (medullary rays) which provide contrast making chatoyance much more evident.
From numbers, chatoyance appears to be slightly lower on Rift/Flat surfaces (11.3 on average of 18 measurements) rather than Quartersawn surfaces (12.1 on average of 12 measurements). Below two examples:


Sample 2 - PZC 12.6


Sample 10 - PZC 10.4

This was further investigated by plotting PZC on the surface.
It appears that the flecks show higher chatoyance than the surrounding areas (PZC ≈ 15-20 vs PZC ≈ 5-15):



...but this only happens when they are cut flat (i.e. QS). When they are cut perpendicularly (i.e. FS) they appear less chatoyant (PZC ≈ 5-10), while the surrounding areas stay roughly the same (PZC ≈ 10-15):


This may possibly explain why the QS surface shows higher PZC.

Interestingly, another set of QS samples from another source shows much higher PZC on main fibers ( ≈ 15-30) rather than medullary rays ( ≈ 10-15):




I'm afraid this posts generates more questions than answers... However I think that the presence of flecks causes additional complexity; we should do the same comparative tests on some wood with chatoyance and without flecks...

 

[phinds]

Great post. Thanks. Did you get the veneer yet?

 

[chatometry]

Great post. Thanks. Did you get the veneer yet?

Not yet... The last tracking update says they were in NY on August 27

 

[chatometry]

Here's some beauty from Hawaii...







With PZC above 24 on average (8 different logs), this is now the most chatoyant of the 57 species we tested so far! (@Arn213 ...)

 

[Arn213]

Here's some beauty from Hawaii...

View attachment 216103
View attachment 216104
View attachment 216105
View attachment 216106
View attachment 216107

With PZC above 24 on average (8 different logs), this is now the most chatoyant of the 57 species we tested so far! (@Arn213 ...)

Like I was saying all along going back to post #2 to all you non believers and skeptics thought I was talking smack.

Just don’t repeat your findings to the stoopid Islander because he will add that to his arsenal when he preaches that he wants all the “Hawaiian liquid gold” to be brought back in it’s rightful birthplace. Aloha

 

[chatometry]

I wanted to share a peculiar example from a few thousands years ago (quartersawn bog oak):

 

[phinds]

Nice.

 

[vegas urban lumber]

I wanted to share a peculiar example from a few thousands years ago (quartersawn bog oak):

View attachment 216281

reflective or chatoyant quality regardless of wood color, points to cell structure

 

[phinds]

reflective or chatoyant quality regardless of wood color, points to cell structure

And this is an interesting demonstration of how hundreds of years (Paolo says thousands and it could be) does not degrade the cell structure in bog oak. I knew that already from end grain analysis but it's still interesting to see another way of confirming that.

 

[chatometry]

To be fair I don't know... I was told 5000-10000 years, but I have no knowledge to confim that. What happens to bog oak? Why does it turn black?

 

[vegas urban lumber]

To be fair I don't know... I was told 5000-10000 years, but I have no knowledge to confim that. What happens to bog oak? Why does it turn black?

mineral staining?

 

[phinds]

What happens to bog oak? Why does it turn black?

mineral staining?

Sort of, is my understanding. It's something about the composition of the peat in the peat bogs reacting w/ the tannin in the oak. Sinker logs of oak can be in lakes/rivers for decades or even 100+ years and they don't turn black. I'm stating that based on an old memory from a potentially faulty memory. Oak that sinks in moist areas that are not peat bogs still turn dark but not black like peat bog oak.

 

[Arn213]

One species from New Zealand called Ancient Kauri that has been preserved in bogs or swamps also do not turn black. That definitely is a species you want to test as the ones with “white bait pattern” is incredibly radiant and has high chatoyance.

The sinker mahogany salvaged from Belize as well tend to keep their color, but they tend to be heavier, richer in color and more chatoyant by my experience.

Sinker redwood can go either way- they can range from orange heartwood to marbled chocolate to charcoal. I have several billets which one was ocean salvaged that is marbled chocolate and charcoal in color and I have some non figured sinker redwood salvaged from the Elk River in Oregon also has this marbled coloration going on. Photo’s below:





Paolo, it would be interesting if you include sinker salvaged species on your study as to me based on my experience and probably has to do with the naturally curing/preservation under water that there is that extra chatoyance to these species when unearthed and dried properly. When you re-saw it, there is this extra “shimmer/glow” that you see more present compared to non sinker species.