Rubio-like finish from scratch

[Big Ry]

Checking back tonight, the tung and peroxide mix is still cloudy. It really didn't separate from what i can tell, though there are a couple small beads of clear watery liquid that I assume are peroxide. It also doesn't seem to have cured at all yet.

On an unrelated note, I added another test to the mix - MCT oil (aka fractionated coconut oil). I happened upon this cosmetic grade oil and figured id test it to see if it cures. I was hoping that if coconut oil cures, this too would cure. And since it's liquid at room temp, maybe it's better than coconut oil. I put straight MCT in a petri dish and 10:1 MCT/peroxide in a petri dish.

So far the results of the MCT are very curious. Neither has shown any sign of curing. But BOTH petri dishes cracked! Like spider webbed. All my tests are sitting on a same shelf under the same expose conditions. At first the dishes were just cracked but not broken to the point of leaking. Then when I checked again tonight they leaked all over. This is so wild to me. What are the chances of this just being a coincidence? Is there something with MCT oil that could cause this to occur?

 

[Chemistry Fan]

Are your petri dishes plastic or glass?

 

[Big Ry]

Are your petri dishes plastic or glass?

Plastic

 

[Big Ry]

Plastic

 

[duncsuss]

Perhaps related ...

I use clear acrylic acetate rod when I'm prototyping pens so I can see what's going on internally with threads and stuff. One time I use denatured alcohol to rinse the lube out, and suddenly there were cracks everywhere. I use cast acrylic, not extruded, so there should not have been internal stresses.

I did a web search and found several articles discussing it, but I don't remember what term they used for it.

 

[Big Ry]

Perhaps related ...

I use clear acrylic acetate rod when I'm prototyping pens so I can see what's going on internally with threads and stuff. One time I use denatured alcohol to rinse the lube out, and suddenly there were cracks everywhere. I use cast acrylic, not extruded, so there should not have been internal stresses.

I did a web search and found several articles discussing it, but I don't remember what term they used for it.

In both cases the cracks all emanated from the little "nipple" on the bottom of the bottom tray. I assume this is a fill point for injection molding or something. I can certainly understand how this local irregularity could cause a weakening of the material and even contain some residual stresses from manufacturing. I just find it really odd that this cracking only occurred with the MCT oil cases, especially if MCT oil doesn't cure (i.e., no rise in temp from curing). I have a bunch more petri dishes as well as more MCT oil than I could ever use, so maybe I'll just run a few more tests with it to see if the issue continues to occur with that oil. I can also try denatured alcohol or isopropyl alcohol, both of which I have in the shop.

 

[SENC]

Checking back tonight, the tung and peroxide mix is still cloudy. It really didn't separate from what i can tell, though there are a couple small beads of clear watery liquid that I assume are peroxide. It also doesn't seem to have cured at all yet.

On an unrelated note, I added another test to the mix - MCT oil (aka fractionated coconut oil). I happened upon this cosmetic grade oil and figured id test it to see if it cures. I was hoping that if coconut oil cures, this too would cure. And since it's liquid at room temp, maybe it's better than coconut oil. I put straight MCT in a petri dish and 10:1 MCT/peroxide in a petri dish.

So far the results of the MCT are very curious. Neither has shown any sign of curing. But BOTH petri dishes cracked! Like spider webbed. All my tests are sitting on a same shelf under the same expose conditions. At first the dishes were just cracked but not broken to the point of leaking. Then when I checked again tonight they leaked all over. This is so wild to me. What are the chances of this just being a coincidence? Is there something with MCT oil that could cause this to occur?

Makes sense to me that they wouldnt mix (oil and water and all that). H2O2 is very unstable - I keep my 35% in a freezer until use to both keep low temp and out of any light/uv exposure - and based on my experience with it I'd guess yours decomposed from 35/65 to almost all water from the time you mixed it to now, unless you kept it sealed from air and in the dark. If it were to have any effect on the tung, I'd think it would be limited to the extra oxygen molecules aiding the polymerization process as they were released - but at some point you'd have to remove the water to allow the tung to cure. Again, I'm not a chemist nor have any technical knowledge, so I'm only going from my own related observations and experience with tung oil and with h2o2 (separately) - ie., I may be missing the boat.

Thinking on this further - presuming that tung oil would float on top of hydrogen peroxide, I wonder about, instead of mixing, layering the tung over h2o2... the tung would limit air getting to the h2o2 and (i think) slow it's decomposition to water, but as decomp occurs the oxygen would have to pass through the tung oil. Would this availability of oxygen speed initiation of tung polymerization? If so, presumably you'd have some window of time before the tung begins to skin to use it on a project (or in your petri dish).

 

[Chemistry Fan]

The H2O2 use is somewhat troublesome; it’s not that stable but it’s not too bad. In the lab we keep it refrigerated for 2 years without issues. Any traces of metals accelerate degradation.
Years ago, I did styrene polymerization using benzoyl peroxide, I’ll see if we have it in the lab and try with tung oil.

 

[Big Ry]

Ive has this peroxide sealed from factory until I pulled it out to run this test. They were stored in opaque white bottles with adhesive seal on the mouth. The bottles were in a plastic bag that was tied shut, and the bag was in the box it shipped in. Its been sitting on the bottom shelf of a rack in my shop since I got it. It has had zero exposure to light or even the air in my shop until I cracked open a bottle to run this test. My shop stays high 60s to about 70 max, year round (its in the basement of my house). If it matter, I got this stuff from bulkperoxide(dot)com

 

[SENC]

Ive has this peroxide sealed from factory until I pulled it out to run this test. They were stored in opaque white bottles with adhesive seal on the mouth. The bottles were in a plastic bag that was tied shut, and the bag was in the box it shipped in. Its been sitting on the bottom shelf of a rack in my shop since I got it. It has had zero exposure to light or even the air in my shop until I cracked open a bottle to run this test. My shop stays high 60s to about 70 max, year round (its in the basement of my house). If it matter, I got this stuff from bulkperoxide(dot)com

I didn't mean to imply it was water before you used it... just that (given my limited experience/understanding) it would have started decomposing quickly upon being mixed and may not have much h2o2 left 36 hours later. ChemistryFan may be able to be more specific in how long it would last in a tung oil mix exposed to air.

My use for h2o2 is, primarily, as a treatment for our garden fountain. I'll add roughly 1/2 gallon whenever I start to see first signs of algae. I use 35%, and the fountain probably holds 15-20 gallons of water. Rough estimate, immediately after adding the overall mix is between 1 and 1.5% h2o2. Based on visible bubbling of oxygen and when that stops, I'd guess that it takes between 6 and 12 hours for the mix to become all (or nearly all) h2o.

 

[Big Ry]

I didn't mean to imply it was water before you used it... just that (given my limited experience/understanding) it would have started decomposing quickly upon being mixed and may not have much h2o2 left 36 hours later. ChemistryFan may be able to be more specific in how long it would last in a tung oil mix exposed to air.

My use for h2o2 is, primarily, as a treatment for our garden fountain. I'll add roughly 1/2 gallon whenever I start to see first signs of algae. I use 35%, and the fountain probably holds 15-20 gallons of water. Rough estimate, immediately after adding the overall mix is between 1 and 1.5% h2o2. Based on visible bubbling of oxygen and when that stops, I'd guess that it takes between 6 and 12 hours for the mix to become all (or nearly all) h2o.

It's been almost 20 years since I had chem 1 & 2 in college, so my memory if fuzzy lol I would think if it converted to water in my petri dish, I'd see condensation on the lid, no? Also, hydrogen peroxide seems like an expensive way to treat a pond!

 

[Chemistry Fan]

I didn't mean to imply it was water before you used it... just that (given my limited experience/understanding) it would have started decomposing quickly upon being mixed and may not have much h2o2 left 36 hours later. ChemistryFan may be able to be more specific in how long it would last in a tung oil mix exposed to air.

My use for h2o2 is, primarily, as a treatment for our garden fountain. I'll add roughly 1/2 gallon whenever I start to see first signs of algae. I use 35%, and the fountain probably holds 15-20 gallons of water. Rough estimate, immediately after adding the overall mix is between 1 and 1.5% h2o2. Based on visible bubbling of oxygen and when that stops, I'd guess that it takes between 6 and 12 hours for the mix to become all (or nearly all)

Not an expert on H2O2 but from my personal experience.
It has shelf life >year if refrigerated
Opening to air doesn’t make it go bad. However, as you noticed with your fountain, any contamination, especially with metals, decompose it immediately.
That being said, I can’t predict how it’s going to react with oils. Any bubbles would indicate degradation.

 

[Big Ry]

Not an expert on H2O2 but from my personal experience.
It has shelf life >year if refrigerated
Opening to air doesn’t make it go bad. However, as you noticed with your fountain, any contamination, especially with metals, decompose it immediately.
That being said, I can’t predict how it’s going to react with oils. Any bubbles would indicate degradation.

I'm not so sure it really bubbled at all. I didn't let it sit before mixing though. The cloudy petri dish in the photo above is what it looked like last night.

 

[Chemistry Fan]

I’m going to buy tung oil and do some mixing myself.

 

[SENC]

It's been almost 20 years since I had chem 1 & 2 in college, so my memory if fuzzy lol I would think if it converted to water in my petri dish, I'd see condensation on the lid, no? Also, hydrogen peroxide seems like an expensive way to treat a pond!

Its just a fountain, but I understand many do use h2o2 (in small amounts) as a "preventive" for small garden ponds. I think some use it similarly in pools.

I could probably use a lot less if I wanted to add a little each week - but it works so exceedingly well as a shock treatment 2-3 times per year that's what I do. And as it decomposed quickly to water, I dont have any concerns about birds or bees visiting it hours later.

I'm probably due for another "treatment" soon, so when I open my next bottle I'll mix a bit with a few ounces of tung oil to contribute another observation for you.

 

[Big Ry]

Its just a fountain, but I understand many do use h2o2 (in small amounts) as a "preventive" for small garden ponds. I think some use it similarly in pools.

I could probably use a lot less if I wanted to add a little each week - but it works so exceedingly well as a shock treatment 2-3 times per year that's what I do. And as it decomposed quickly to water, I dont have any concerns about birds or bees visiting it hours later.

I'm probably due for another "treatment" soon, so when I open my next bottle I'll mix a bit with a few ounces of tung oil to contribute another observation for you.

Oh I didn't realize you were doing it so infrequently. Yeah that's much better than bleach lol

 

[Big Ry]

I put 2 more petri dishes out with straight mct, so we'll see if those crack as well.

I forgot about the tung UV test, so I just tried that. I brushed a thin coat of walrus oil tung on plastic and hit it with my 50w panel uv light from 1/2" away for 10min... it did nothing to the tung. The tung is still completely fluid.

And for an update on the original tests:
1. Raw oils - none cured yet
2. Rubio part b tests - all are cloudy. All have formed a firm layer along the plastic substrate except the olive oil. All still have some fluid parts though. It's not clear if the coconut oil is actually curing or if it's just the rubio part b hardening alone.
3. Japan dryer tests - Soybean and corn are rubber... basically fully cured. Sesame is close but still soft enough to leave finger prints. To my shock olive oil seems to be curing! It's still pretty soft but it's much thicker than control. Coconut is fluid (read: fatty gel). I think the coconut + Japan might be more fluid than raw coconut!

 

[Big Ry]

Ok it is 100% the MCT oil causing this fracturing of the petri dishes. Four out of four petri dishes with MCT oil in them have fractured.