Swietenia mahagoni - Byron

Don't know if anyone cares, but here are some of the trees near my house that are labeled as "swietenia mahogani" by the city. I am guessing it is either a mistake or these are planted species that differ from the wild ones. Maybe someone can tell from the leaves. Not me.

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Color and weight (density) are not reliable to identify any of the two mahoganies. Even macroscopic characteristics are not enough to tell them apart.
Here I have two samples (one of each) can you guess which one is which?

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Byron Barker said:
Don't know if anyone cares, but here are some of the trees near my house that are labeled as "swietenia mahogani" by the city. I am guessing it is either a mistake or these are planted species that differ from the wild ones. Maybe someone can tell from the leaves. Not me.

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How big are the mature leaves? mahagoni should have small leaves (no more than 30 cm I think), macrophylla has bigger leafs up to 40 or 45 cm
 
Gonzalodqa said:
Color and weight (density) are not reliable to identify any of the two mahoganies. Even macroscopic characteristics are not enough to tell them apart.
Here I have two samples (one of each) can you guess which one is which?

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The one on the left looks just like the macrophylla I've been cutting, but I'm guessing you're point is the left one is mahogani.
 
Byron Barker said:
The one on the left looks just like the macrophylla I've been cutting, but I'm guessing you're point is the left one is mahogani.
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Exactly the right one is an old-growth S. macrophylla taken from a mature forest in South America several years ago. Also, they weigh roughly the same.
 
^Let me pose a question- how do you know for a fact that the sample you have is reliably and precisely that specific species? I would have rather seen a comparison of color not light and dark comparison, but the same color value. Where did the sample of S. mahogani come from- where did it grow? Is there an aromatic difference between the two? Can you provide an enlargement of the end grain of the two samples that you posted?
 
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The S. Mahagoni came from Gary Green (Member or IWCS), the sample if I am not mistaken came from Florida. Non have a distinctive aroma. I had problems with my scanner and somehow doesn’t really give a clear image of the end grain even at 1200 pp (a bit blurry at high magnification) but you can find both end grain (10x) images on the internet. They both are about the same, I could not be able to tell them apart. The image was only to show the range of color for both species.
I do not know S. mahagoni mechanical properties so I can’t say they are equal, but in physical characteristics they are
 
I don’t know how much this would help because the end grain pictured is not really sanded to the right grit (the other end is sealed and the camera cannot properly capture it)
They are the same basically

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Gonzalodqa said:
I don’t know how much this would help because the end grain pictured is not really sanded to the right grit (the other end is sealed and the camera cannot properly capture it)
They are the same basically

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I'm still curious about the color range on the old growth stuff. I was expecting the difference to be in growth ring density, but that doesn't appear to be the case. I suppose the heart wood is gaining color with age as many woods do. Mahogany is relatively fast growing, so there is a lot of commercially grown lumber here that looks significantly different from the lumber of wild trees.
 
Well the color of wood is a function of genetics, site conditions, and age. My guess is that the older the tree the more extra fives are added to the heartwood darkening the wood
 
Maybe this will help if someone is looking for microscopic pictures of the mahoganies. At this level, you might be able to tell them apart because it seems mahagoni presents primarily radial multiple pores while macrophylla seems to present more solitary pores (This is based on just a couple of samples checked I might be completely wrong here)

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Ok, I cut up one of the logs from the top of the pile that was 26cm diameter. The final blanks came out 15-18cmx26cm blanks. They are rough sawn and not really cleaned up at all. I noted one check running right down the pith on each piece. I filled them with CA glue. The glue when right through the length of the pieces down the pith. Sealed with a clear coat of poly. I am showing the one end piece I didn't cut to show the final color once seasoned. BIG DIFFERENCE in color. The pics don't really do it any kind of justice. Looks like nice dense growth rings and a buttery smooth look with sapwood and heartwood all present and a good amount of contrasting colors in the heartwood. Should be lovely with time. Sorry for the crap pics. Let me know what you want to pay for both and I'll ship them to you. Shipping is going to be the biggest factor. If you like this mahogany and think it is worth the shipping. I will cut you larger pieces from the bigger stuff on the bottom of my stack.

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  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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Byron Barker said:
Ok, I cut up one of the logs from the top of the pile that was 26cm diameter. The final blanks came out 15-18cmx26cm blanks. They are rough sawn and not really cleaned up at all. I noted one check running right down the pith on each piece. I filled them with CA glue. The glue when right through the length of the pieces down the pith. Sealed with a clear coat of poly. I am showing the one end piece I didn't cut to show the final color once seasoned. BIG DIFFERENCE in color. The pics don't really do it any kind of justice. Looks like nice dense growth rings and a buttery smooth look with sapwood and heartwood all present and a good amount of contrasting colors in the heartwood. Should be lovely with time. Sorry for the crap pics. Let me know what you want to pay for both and I'll ship them to you. Shipping is going to be the biggest factor. If you like this mahogany and think it is worth the shipping. I will cut you larger pieces from the bigger stuff on the bottom of my stack.

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Byron, just checking. Are these the two pieces you cut me? If so, please let me know total costs to ship and I will get payment posted. Same address as my PM yesterday.

Thank you.
~Mo
 
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Byron Barker said:
Ok, I cut up one of the logs from the top of the pile that was 26cm diameter. The final blanks came out 15-18cmx26cm blanks. They are rough sawn and not really cleaned up at all. I noted one check running right down the pith on each piece. I filled them with CA glue. The glue when right through the length of the pieces down the pith. Sealed with a clear coat of poly. I am showing the one end piece I didn't cut to show the final color once seasoned. BIG DIFFERENCE in color. The pics don't really do it any kind of justice. Looks like nice dense growth rings and a buttery smooth look with sapwood and heartwood all present and a good amount of contrasting colors in the heartwood. Should be lovely with time. Sorry for the crap pics. Let me know what you want to pay for both and I'll ship them to you. Shipping is going to be the biggest factor. If you like this mahogany and think it is worth the shipping. I will cut you larger pieces from the bigger stuff on the bottom of my stack.

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The look of this fresh cut, and your description of fine grain and buttery surface are consistent with Cuban mahogany I got here from a guy in Florida, and some from our member in US Virgin Islands. The Cuban mahogany I have is easy to differentiate from hondo, and is far superior IMO
 
barry richardson said:
The look of this fresh cut, and your description of fine grain and buttery surface are consistent with Cuban mahogany I got here from a guy in Florida, and some from our member in US Virgin Islands. The Cuban mahogany I have is easy to differentiate from hondo, and is far superior IMO
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To add to the mess....Cuban is said to be slightly more cold hardy and does fine in more parts of Florida than Big-leaf. On the flip, in the 1990's there was some issues with a wood provider from Puerto Rico supplying "Cuban" that was Big-leaf, as Big-leaf grows there. Supplier claimed negligence.

As for the Cuban sample above from Gary Green, it is very likely it was ID'ed on stump and followed through the milling process. Now in Cuba, they have a few plantations of the hybrid of the two. Sure that would just make things more fun....
 
DLJeffs said:
I like that trees in Taiwan come with labels. That makes it way easier.
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Yeah, they do it in parks and along streets. It's good actually because it let's you know what you've been seeing in the woods. Eerily enough, you might find one in the middle of the forest off trail. They'll tag endangered trees as kind of a "we're watching you" to tree poachers...known in Chinese as "mountain rats".
 
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