woodtickgreg
scroll, flat, spin
Staff member
Administrator
Global Moderator
Founding Member
Full Member
Forum Moderator
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #201
What free wood did you find today?
- Thread starter woodtickgreg
- Start date
Curly maple
It's "Virginia bound" wood! 
3 Cleveland pear trees were making threatening gestures toward the neighbors house so she decided they had to go. We had a tornado go either side of their place on thursday so that made it even more urgent.
I took the trunks and my dad's wood stove gets the branches
I took the trunks and my dad's wood stove gets the branches
A local name I assume, look just like 'Bradford pear'.
I was told they were a variant that wasnt supposed to be a prone to splitting. This is the German that keeps meticulous records so unless the seller lied to her, these will be not be bradford.
The Bradford and cleveland are both variants of the callery pear from Asia. The cleveland is supposed to be fully sterile and slightly narrower. Also known as chanticleer pear tree.
Less prone to splitting is a good thing! Please share more pics when you crack open this new pear variety! Looks like it holds real promise! Chuck
Thanks Frank, just did not recall ever handling a Callery cultivar called 'Cleveland'. We basically dealt with the two big splits of the species, 'Bradford', the upright deltoid shaped crown, and 'Callery', the globular crowned form.
I see Dirr has 13 named forms listed, but 'Cleveland' was not one of them. I did see it listed on the web, and see it matches well to two forms. Sure that name sells better in the midwest...
Pyrus calleryana 'Chanticleer' is the latin name I found listed.
Looks to me like cleveland is a sales and marketing form...
By coincidence, my brother, (who is retired from Missouri Dept. of Conservation) posted this on Facebook yesterday...
I did not watch the media, but not sure if I want to as even the first sentence is suspect. Callery pears are not Bradford Pears - Bradford pears are a variety (a purposeful selection) of callery pear - a variety that is deemed sterile - as in cannot reproduce. If it cannot reproduce, it cannot spread. It is very hard to reproduce by cuttings and it is not stoloniferous and the fruits are not sterile (it does not self-pollinate - some have fruits, but no viable seeds). However, there is a so called "invasion" of callery pear - and they are not native and people have their panties in a wad over these non-natives (why not other non-natives I don't understand). A Bradford pear is usually "manufactured" by grafting a Bradford pear scion (they don't have seeds and very, very hard to reproduce by cuttings) onto "wild" callery pear stock. Callery pear is also the usual rootstock for the Asian Pear that has become popular. What has likely happened is one of two things and the Bradford is getting the blame. One is that is has somehow hybridized with some type of other pear (does not with common (eating) pears but has been shown possible with other Asian pears) or that some Bradford grafts have not lived and the rootstock has grown and reproduced - I used to be able to point out a couple of those within a block of our office (they've since been cut down). Where my office is located the town used to have a Pear Fest - and mandated planting Bradford Pears everywhere because. It was a pretty cool sight in the spring at one time. Of course, nobody maintained the tree correctly and many were damaged by splitting in snow, ice, rain and heavy winds. So they got a bad name quite a long time ago here because of the splitting and they cancelled the Pear Fest. A callery actually looks pretty nice in the spring also, but does reproduces, has no pests, does have thorns, but doesn't have that beloved natural (as in no-maintenance) "vase" shape - so not popular.
Thats a lot of comments for not watching the media.....
Sorry, my mind makes up things!
But I did read some of the brochure though. It's been a pet peeve of mine for a few years because of the Bradfords in our area and the response and finger pointing. I work in the soft underbelly of Middle Tennessee! its not that I have any great fondness of Bradfords, but i get irritated with the non-critical thinking that happens around here.
Last edited:
I just looked again at my Dirr book (1990 revision), and he did have it, " 'Chanticleer' Some times sold as 'Select', Cleveland Select' and 'Stone Hill' ". I had simply looked at the list of cultivars named and did not read into them.
@Mike Hill
As for 'Bradford', it was listed as named in 1963 at Glenn Dale MD, USDA Plant Introduction Station. Propagation is listed at 70% success using 10k ppm IBA + 5k ppm NAA quik dip, bark, sand and mist. As for reproduction, not listed as sterile, but often has incomplete flowers. Does not self pollinate, but can breed with other Asian pears as well with others of its same species. Prone to root sprouting in urban settings, sometimes forming clonal communities.
Watch the short film, they cover some of the stuff you said. Enjoy a cup of joe or other choice beverage.
Little known fact - many of the seeds of the original research on callery pears can from the region now known as Wuhan.
My point is that too much CRAP has been written by people good at writing CRAP about callery and bradfords and not about research. I'm not championing bradfords (although I do love turning it), but pointing out ignorance. Callery and Bradford are not interchangeable - anymore than Red Delicious apples, Granny Smith, and Malus sieversii are interchangable. Is the Cabernet Sauvignon grape the same as the Concord Grape or the wild vitus riparia? Do the wines taste the same? Is Honduran mahogany the same as Cuban mahogany and is what sold as mahogany really mahogany? Callerys were brought over well before Bradfords were selected. Callery was and may still be a very common rootstock tree for common pears and Asian pears - I don't study growing fruit like I used to. Callery as collected and grown well before the Bradford introduction (40+ years) because of the hope that it's big-time resistance to fire blight would transfer to the scions. Since the 1963 introduction a few more Bradley like introductions were made, including Whitehouse, Cleveland Select, Aristocrat, and Chanticleer among others (all distinct cultivars). Bradford by itself, is self-sterile - It does not pollinate itself, nor does one Bradford pollinate another Bradford. Pear trees in general are self-incompatible, meaning they cannot fertilize themselves. We are now led to believe that some of the additional cultivars can pollinate one another and the species callery can pollinate Bradford. In a genetic analysis of "wild" Callery Pear populations, I've been told and have read that only a relatively small percentage have cultivar ancestors. That means a relatively large percentage came about some other way. What may be that way? Hmmmmm---there seems to be a lot of other callery out there other than Bradford - could some of the problems be coming from them? Even from commercial pear orchards? Very likely If it's clonal, it is not likely a cultivar, it's likely callery or callery rootstock. Often you never know that something has been grafted. A few years ago, one of my tree peonies got attacked by a mole or a vole and had a decline. The next year, It had two types of flowers - one a pink tree peony, and the other was what appeared to be a herbaceous Festiva Maximus. Until then, had no idea at least some tree peonies were grafted. And then I found the Intersectionals (Itohs),
And yes, I've read about the success rate of rooting cuttings. But that has not proven true in my experience and of some nurserymen I've talked to. Back in the 80's, I admired the Bradfords in the town I worked in and wanted a number of Bradfords for use in my yard, but did not want to spend the money buying them. So I went about trying to propagate them from cuttings. I tried quite a number - both hardwood and softwood cuttings - 100% failure. The next year I tried some with 2 different rooting hormones and willow water - 100% failure. By the next year I was determined and did much the same but also did some with mist propagation, some with bottom heat, and some with enclosure and some with all 3 together. 100% failure. I threw up my hands and bought some azaleas and oak-leaf hydrangea instead. And propagated them.
My point is that too much CRAP has been written by people good at writing CRAP about callery and bradfords and not about research. I'm not championing bradfords (although I do love turning it), but pointing out ignorance. Callery and Bradford are not interchangeable - anymore than Red Delicious apples, Granny Smith, and Malus sieversii are interchangable. Is the Cabernet Sauvignon grape the same as the Concord Grape or the wild vitus riparia? Do the wines taste the same? Is Honduran mahogany the same as Cuban mahogany and is what sold as mahogany really mahogany? Callerys were brought over well before Bradfords were selected. Callery was and may still be a very common rootstock tree for common pears and Asian pears - I don't study growing fruit like I used to. Callery as collected and grown well before the Bradford introduction (40+ years) because of the hope that it's big-time resistance to fire blight would transfer to the scions. Since the 1963 introduction a few more Bradley like introductions were made, including Whitehouse, Cleveland Select, Aristocrat, and Chanticleer among others (all distinct cultivars). Bradford by itself, is self-sterile - It does not pollinate itself, nor does one Bradford pollinate another Bradford. Pear trees in general are self-incompatible, meaning they cannot fertilize themselves. We are now led to believe that some of the additional cultivars can pollinate one another and the species callery can pollinate Bradford. In a genetic analysis of "wild" Callery Pear populations, I've been told and have read that only a relatively small percentage have cultivar ancestors. That means a relatively large percentage came about some other way. What may be that way? Hmmmmm---there seems to be a lot of other callery out there other than Bradford - could some of the problems be coming from them? Even from commercial pear orchards? Very likely If it's clonal, it is not likely a cultivar, it's likely callery or callery rootstock. Often you never know that something has been grafted. A few years ago, one of my tree peonies got attacked by a mole or a vole and had a decline. The next year, It had two types of flowers - one a pink tree peony, and the other was what appeared to be a herbaceous Festiva Maximus. Until then, had no idea at least some tree peonies were grafted. And then I found the Intersectionals (Itohs),
And yes, I've read about the success rate of rooting cuttings. But that has not proven true in my experience and of some nurserymen I've talked to. Back in the 80's, I admired the Bradfords in the town I worked in and wanted a number of Bradfords for use in my yard, but did not want to spend the money buying them. So I went about trying to propagate them from cuttings. I tried quite a number - both hardwood and softwood cuttings - 100% failure. The next year I tried some with 2 different rooting hormones and willow water - 100% failure. By the next year I was determined and did much the same but also did some with mist propagation, some with bottom heat, and some with enclosure and some with all 3 together. 100% failure. I threw up my hands and bought some azaleas and oak-leaf hydrangea instead. And propagated them.
Last edited:
Thanks everyone for the discussion on ornamental pears. Very timely discussion as the pears are in full bloom right now.
I've never paid much attention, nor grown any ornamental, only fruiting pears. Really noticing them now, and the different tree shapes (cultivars?) I'm seeing around town. Going to visit a few retailers and see just what it is they are selling/pushing around here.
I've never paid much attention, nor grown any ornamental, only fruiting pears. Really noticing them now, and the different tree shapes (cultivars?) I'm seeing around town. Going to visit a few retailers and see just what it is they are selling/pushing around here.
I'm curious to find out whether you find any or not. Last I hears was like 1/2 of the states have outlawed them to some extent.
Lowes lists "Bradford" for sale, as does Tractor Supply and numerous other online nurseries. Menards does not, but does sell "Cleveland". Saw several articles where cities in IL have banned Bradford for municipal plantings, but allow it for private plantings.
An article from a newspaper in Indiana indicated that State officials wanted to ban it, but lobbying from nurseries in the state convinced them not to as they had a large stock of trees to sell and it would hurt their bottom line....
An article from a newspaper in Indiana indicated that State officials wanted to ban it, but lobbying from nurseries in the state convinced them not to as they had a large stock of trees to sell and it would hurt their bottom line....