What's Growing in the Garden

[djg]

My Montmorency is a semi dwarf and I have no problem keeping it manageable. It has stayed in the 10-12 ft range without any significant effort. The hardest thing with cherries is convincing yourself to thin enough through the middle. I even net mine each year with a 40x40 bird netting.

I don't particularly care for dwarf trees of any kind as many have a weak root system and are susceptible to being blown over without staking. I also prefer the look of semi drawer as dwarf are just too scrawny.

If this is your first time with a cherry, spend a little time reading up on training and pruning. Different methods are generally preferred over the central leader that is most common with apple and pear.

You can prune semi dwarf and standard to a dwarf size, but it can take a lot of work. If you want to do that to stay off ladders, but want the stronger rootstock, I'd go with a semi dwarf. Could easily keep that to dwarf size, or maybe let it go a little larger to maybe 8-10'. Then you'd have a smaller size, but only a step or two on a ladder would be needed for pruning and picking.

If you really only want a dwarf size for space or physical (ladder) reasons, I'd just get a dwarf and save yourself a lot of work.

I have plenty of room for them so space is not a concern. I was just thinking a dwarf would present less mass for high winds. I did not know about weaker root system of dwarfs. As I've said I had two cherry trees that the wind took out (split) over the years. But I never did prune them. Always was afraid I'd hurt them. Starting to learn pruning procedures with my new peach trees.

Thanks

 

[djg]

We are lucky that we have crops on three sides and pasture/timber on the other. Lots of deer - saw a herd of over 50 within a mile of here on Friday - but lots to eat besides the garden/orchard.

Most of my fruit trees are mature now, they get some feeding around the lower branches, but not enough to bother me, the few young ones get enclosed with fence and bird netting to prevent feeding. I really only have two areas the deer feed on, the strawberries early with new growth, and the sweet corn when it's nearing time to pick. I use electric fence around the berries at waist high with a second about 6" to keep coons and groundhogs out of ripe berries.

Since the fence goes around the berries first in spring, I always bait the fence with peanut butter in a folded piece of aluminum foil. They learn within days to avoid the wire. They avoid it so much, I don't really need to even have it electrified after a while. Last year they started eating raspberry new growth and all I did was hang a piece of wire along the trellis and they stayed away after that.

Other problem is the sweet corn. That gets 3 strands, waist high for the deer, ~12" and 6". The lower ones keep out the coons. The fence is spaced just far away from the corn that blowing leaves don't touch it. As mentioned before, the deer don't see a "landing zone" because of the corn, so they don't jump it.

Another issue is birds that will snap off young transplants. Those always get bird netting stretched over hoops made from sections of fence. That also keeps the deer from chewing off the transplants.

I do have to fence tulips early, but just use a lot of chili flakes to repel them from all the hostas.

Of course the best is to have a farm dog that lives outside, but our last one died a few years ago and we never got a new one.

There are fields 1/4 mile away, where the deer feed, and then cross our subdivision into the woods. I don't mind seeing them. I was the first house out here on 5 acre plots and I rarely saw them. They had too many routes back and forth.

I have four cats now that are outside during daylight hours. I bring them in when it gets dark because I've seen fox and coyotes run through my yard. Cats will take care of the squirrels in the garden but I'm not sure about coons. So I may have to put up a bottom wire also. I just didn't want to deter the cats from joining my Brother and me when we're out working in the garden. They really like rolling around in the dirt and supervising us.

And I just learned deer will go after garlic which I recently planted. Lots of little areas to protect.

 

[Nature Man]

There are fields 1/4 mile away, where the deer feed, and then cross our subdivision into the woods. I don't mind seeing them. I was the first house out here on 5 acre plots and I rarely saw them. They had too many routes back and forth.

I have four cats now that are outside during daylight hours. I bring them in when it gets dark because I've seen fox and coyotes run through my yard. Cats will take care of the squirrels in the garden but I'm not sure about coons. So I may have to put up a bottom wire also. I just didn't want to deter the cats from joining my Brother and me when we're out working in the garden. They really like rolling around in the dirt and supervising us.

And I just learned deer will go after garlic which I recently planted. Lots of little areas to protect.

Other critters to contend with include gophers and other underground pests. Fighting nature can be most frustrating! Chuck

 

[daniscool]

Other critters to contend with include gophers and other underground pests. Fighting nature can be most frustrating! Chuck

Nature will always win. It doesn't stop. Ever.

The pyramids, stone henge and many neolithic sites are still standing but they were built to last. Not to be comfortable,

 

[Mr. Peet]

I have plenty of room for them so space is not a concern. I was just thinking a dwarf would present less mass for high winds. I did not know about weaker root system of dwarfs. As I've said I had two cherry trees that the wind took out (split) over the years. But I never did prune them. Always was afraid I'd hurt them. Starting to learn pruning procedures with my new peach trees.

Thanks

Many semi-dwarf and dwarf trees will have the same stem stock but different root stock. Often, dwarf root stock's slow growth is meant to reduce nutrients to the upper portion slowing growth. However, this is not a direct transfer, implying, the upper often grows slightly faster and in time, the tree becomes top heavy. This is why many fail, thus the constant pruning to reduce such.

 

[sprucegum]

Take a look at my fall planted spinach that's over wintering beautifully! It's in the raised bed to the left of the greenhouse

 

[T. Ben]

Take a look at my fall planted spinach that's over wintering beautifully! It's in the raised bed to the left of the greenhouse

View attachment 284064

Sorry,where was it, all i could see is that wonderful snow!!

 

[trc65]

@Mike Hill
I know we joke about a lot here, but I sincerely hope that your backyard will still be a primarily shaded area.

I've lost trees and branches, but nothing on the scale of what you are dealing with down there.

 

[Mike Hill]

@Mike Hill
I know we joke about a lot here, but I sincerely hope that your backyard will still be a primarily shaded area.

I've lost trees and branches, but nothing on the scale of what you are dealing with down there.

Thank you for the thoughts! Yeh, lost another substantial tree (4th one in less than a half year) - uprooted itself. And lost some big branches here and there. But still gonna be plenty of shade just the way the houses and other trees are arranged. Some places may now be partial shade rather than deep shade.

 

[djg]

The snow is finally gone and with the warm weather, the ground is drying up. Time to do some garden work. And of course, more questions from me. lol

First, the garlic is starting to sprout. I never got around to mulching the bed. Too late or no benefit to putting a layer of leaves on it? Need to protect from rabbits and deer?

After my experience with Home Depot and OnLine Orchards, I ordered two semi-dwarf Montmorency Cherry from Stark Bros. They were suppose to ship the week of 2/22, but with the snow on the ground, I wasn't sure I'd be ready. I changed the date to the end of March. Now we're getting a warm week and am wondering if that's too late? Will they still be dormant? I got the holes dug today and the soil is drying out nicely. Saturday, I'll cover the dirt pile and hole to keep the upcoming rain out. Don't want to put mud balls around the bare roots. And I don't want to have to monitor the dirt piles for a whole month, I'll probably change the date back.

Stark's planting video recommends fertilizer at the time of planting. Theirs (Tree Prep) 22-24-12 or Jobe's All Purpose 4-4-4 (3/4 cu per tree). Any idea why the difference? Could I just mix in a little (1/4 cu?) 12-12-12 into the soil?

Need to prune the blackberries and peach trees. Not an expert on trees, but Stark's has a video that looks pretty good.

 

[trc65]

I know the deer for sure will eat garlic tips if it's the first thing green. Typically that won't hurt the garlic, but may cue the deer to keep coming back to the spot. Mulch would help keep the tips from freezing when we get more cold, which we probably will, but again, never had a problem when that occurred.

Don't worry about the trees still being dormant, they are kept in coolers to keep them from breaking dormancy. Planting them in cold soil will also keep them dormant. A little 12-12-12 would be fine, just don't put it in direct contact with the roots.

If you've never pruned peaches before, definitely watch a video or two, or look for some Extension pubs. It took me a little bit to grasp the open center style of pruning for peaches when all I'd done was central leader for apples and pears.

It's also a good time to put a preseason fungicide spray on the peach after pruning to prevent peach leaf curl and some other diseases. Copper fungicides or chlorothalonil both work. I do 2 sprays about 2 weeks apart.

I'm not even thinking about doing anything garden related yet, our ground is still frozen, and I know we will have a good bit of winter yet. I could start pruning fruit trees, but just seems too early for me.

 

[djg]

I know the deer for sure will eat garlic tips if it's the first thing green. Typically that won't hurt the garlic, but may cue the deer to keep coming back to the spot. Mulch would help keep the tips from freezing when we get more cold, which we probably will, but again, never had a problem when that occurred.

Don't worry about the trees still being dormant, they are kept in coolers to keep them from breaking dormancy. Planting them in cold soil will also keep them dormant. A little 12-12-12 would be fine, just don't put it in direct contact with the roots.

If you've never pruned peaches before, definitely watch a video or two, or look for some Extension pubs. It took me a little bit to grasp the open center style of pruning for peaches when all I'd done was central leader for apples and pears.

It's also a good time to put a preseason fungicide spray on the peach after pruning to prevent peach leaf curl and some other diseases. Copper fungicides or chlorothalonil both work. I do 2 sprays about 2 weeks apart.

I'm not even thinking about doing anything garden related yet, our ground is still frozen, and I know we will have a good bit of winter yet. I could start pruning fruit trees, but just seems too early for me.

AI search makes it sound like chlorothalonil is more effective after infestation occurs whereas copper fungicides doesn't. Not that I'm going to wait. Rural King has both in stock. Should I spray the Cherry trees, too, once planted?

 

[trc65]

Either is good, but I use chlorothalonil as I usually have it on hand and it can be used on many things in season.

The sour cherry really doesn't need anything until it starts producing when you'll want to use something to prevent brown rot of the fruit. Sweet cherries are much more susceptible to many diseases. Having said that, if I have extra spray when I'm spraying one tree, I'll usually spray whatever out on another tree as long as it's labeled and not contraindicated (wrong bloom time, close to harvest, etc).

My Montmorency tree has been pretty much trouble free. Sprays for brown rot on fruit and for fruit fly are all I've done.

 

[sprucegum]

Does anyone have any experience using preen garden herbicide? Although it's not considered organic it's nothing but corn gluten which apparently is effective as a pre merge herbicide. I've got a crabgrass problem, I can do a pretty good job of controlling it by tilling until about half way through the growing season. Eventually the plants get too large to do much tilling and more crabgrass sprouts to make a seed crop for next year. I'm hoping to do a thorough tilling and weeding after everything is well established then incorporate preen into the soil. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Nature Man]

Does anyone have any experience using preen garden herbicide? Although it's not considered organic it's nothing but corn gluten which apparently is effective as a pre merge herbicide. I've got a crabgrass problem, I can do a pretty good job of controlling it by tilling until about half way through the growing season. Eventually the plants get too large to do much tilling and more crabgrass sprouts to make a seed crop for next year. I'm hoping to do a thorough tilling and weeding after everything is well established then incorporate preen into the soil. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Years ago I used preen in flower gardens with reasonably good success. When I started out, it did take a couple of years to really get the weeds under control, as it seemed to only help with the pre-emerging weeds, as designed. I was always hesitant using it in my vegetable garden, as I really tried to limit chemicals there. Chuck

 

[sprucegum]

Years ago I used preen in flower gardens with reasonably good success. When I started out, it did take a couple of years to really get the weeds under control, as it seemed to only help with the pre-emerging weeds, as designed. I was always hesitant using it in my vegetable garden, as I really tried to limit chemicals there. Chuck

It seems that the vegetable garden preen is nothing more than corn gluten that is granulated to make it easier to apply. Corn gluten is a ingredient in many livestock feeds. There are 2 feed mills in the area, I'm thinking about asking if I can purchase gluten in 50 pound feed sacks. It's also a good source of slow release nitrogen.

 

[djg]

I watched the video. Good heavens, he takes a lot off including the height.

 

[Mike Hill]

Ain't nuthen wrong with that. However, investigate Summer Pruning also. Although I currently have no fruit trees that I am practicing it on, when I did, it would definitely help manage to a shorter tree and seemed to encourage more fruiting spurs. I'm gonna try it on my Japanese Persimmon this year as it is getting a little too tall.

 

[sprucegum]

Ain't nuthen wrong with that. However, investigate Summer Pruning also. Although I currently have no fruit trees that I am practicing it on, when I did, it would definitely help manage to a shorter tree and seemed to encourage more fruiting spurs. I'm gonna try it on my Japanese Persimmon this year as it is getting a little too tall.

When I was in ag college they had a old guy give a apple tree pruning demonstration. When he was all done he said a apple tree should be opened up enough to throw a cat through it. I expect to animal rights people would take issue, but I have to admit my imagination creates a visual

 

[djg]

I probably mentioned this before. Growing up I had a neighbor who was a retired professor of botany or similar. I mowed his yard. One time he wanted to teach me how to prune his fruit trees. I was always too busy and wanted to go off and play. Stupid kid. The amount of knowledge I could have gleaned from him.