WTB: Confirmed samples of premium exotics

Big Ry

Big Ry

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I am looking to get samples of premium exotics species to use as a baseline for confirming other pieces I get in the future and just generally for collection purposes. I'm only looking for pieces that have been confirmed through analysis or that come from someone with a very high degree of confidence in the species identification. They don't have to have a paper trail, but that would certainly be preferred.

I am a member of IWCS and have emailed a few other members who have advertised IWCS samples for sale, but it seems that my emails typically go unanswered. I will continue that route, but i also wanted to reach out on here to others who may not be members of IWCS.

I've already obtained a sample of Dalbergia Nigra thanks to @Mr. Peet. Examples of the caliber of samples I'm looking for are down below, but this is by no means comprehensive. Botanical names are courtesy of wood database. My primary focus is on species that are difficult to ID because (a) they are highly varied in appearance, (b) their common name encompasses many species, (c) they are very similar in appearance to other species , and/or (d) they're so rare that data points are scarce (and imposters are rampant).

Verawood (Plectrocarpa arborea)
Argentine lignum vitae (Plectrocarpa sarmientoi)
Bois de Rose (Dalbergia maritima, Dalbergia louvelii)
Madagascar rosewood (D. baronii, D. greveana, D. madagascariensis, and D. monticola)
Mun ebony (Diospyros mun)
Macassar ebony (Diospyros celebica)

I'm open to other samples. This is just a quick list off the top of my head.

This all came about after a conversation i had with Steve Earis regarding some of my wood that I thought was verawood. Steve feels as though it's actually Argentine lignum vitae and further noted that verawood is fairly rare nowadays. Attempts at IDing through magnified end grain photos weren't fruitful, because my pieces seem to fall in-between the known samples of verawood and Argentine LV shown at hobbit house.

I just think having the physical samples will be an asset since pictures can only help so much. Hand feel and scent cannot be ascertained from photos. Even data on UV reactivity is limited.
 
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Big Ry said:
I am looking to get samples of premium exotics species to use as a baseline for confirming other pieces I get in the future and just generally for collection purposes. I'm only looking for pieces that have been confirmed through analysis or that come from someone with a very high degree of confidence in the species identification. They don't have to have a paper trail, but that would certainly be preferred.

I am a member of IWCS and have emailed a few other members who have advertised IWCS samples for sale, but it seems that my emails typically go unanswered. I will continue that route, but i also wanted to reach out on here to others who may not be members of IWCS.

I've already obtained a sample of Dalbergia Nigra thanks to @Mr. Peet. Examples of the caliber of samples I'm looking for are down below, but this is by no means comprehensive. Botanical names are courtesy of wood database. My primary focus is on species that are difficult to ID because (a) they are highly varied in appearance, (b) their common name encompasses many species, (c) they are very similar in appearance to other species , and/or (d) they're so rare that data points are scarce (and imposters are rampant).

Verawood (Plectrocarpa arborea)
Argentine lignum vitae (Plectrocarpa sarmientoi)
Bois de Rose (Dalbergia maritima, Dalbergia louvelii)
Madagascar rosewood (D. baronii, D. greveana, D. madagascariensis, and D. monticola)
Mun ebony (Diospyros mun)
Macassar ebony (Diospyros celebica)

I'm open to other samples. This is just a quick list off the top of my head.

This all came about after a conversation i had with Steve Earis regarding some of my wood that I thought was verawood. Steve feels as though it's actually Argentine lignum vitae and further noted that verawood is fairly rare nowadays. Attempts at IDing through magnified end grain photos weren't fruitful, because my pieces seem to fall in-between the known samples of verawood and Argentine LV shown at hobbit house.

I just think having the physical samples will be an asset since pictures can only help so much. Hand feel and scent cannot be ascertained from photos. Even data on UV reactivity is limited.
Click to expand...
@Mike1950 has Mun Ebony.
 
Griffin exotic woods in colorado has many premium exotic species that are perfectly dried and ID'ed very well. I bought from them around five years ago and was truly impressed with everything.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
daniscool said:
Griffin exotic woods in colorado has many premium exotic species that are perfectly dried and ID'ed very well. I bought from them around five years ago and was truly impressed with everything.
Click to expand...
exoticwood.biz

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exoticwood.biz exoticwood.biz
 
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  • #7
daniscool said:
Griffin exotic woods in colorado has many premium exotic species that are perfectly dried and ID'ed very well. I bought from them around five years ago and was truly impressed with everything.
Click to expand...
I've ordered from them too, but how do you know they're properly ID'd? That's really where the issue lies. Its kind of just taking someone at their word, and taking a business's word no less. I'm not saying they're deceptive or inaccurately ID'd; I'm just saying i don't have any reason to have more confidence in them than any other vender. But if you know something about them that sets them apart, by all means let me know. Like if the owner was formally trained to ID wood species or was a ranking member of IWCS, those would be reasons for me to put more stock in their ID compared to others.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
I just want to be clear that the reason for this post is so i can have a high degree of certainty in a piece of wood being properly ID'd. There may be many ways to achieve that certainty and i regularly refer to Paul's website and wood database, but at present all commercial venders are equally trustworthy in my eyes because i don't have any reason to suspect they are wrong (with a couple exceptions who i know to be deceptive). But i don't feel that my approach is comprehensive enough, and this issue with the Verawood is what inspired me to try to dig more.

The purported verawood i have actually came from woodcraft of all places. It was sold as "lignum vitae" but obviously isn't Guaiacum officinale. I dont know if they listed a botanical name and the page is no longer active. The email confirmation only lists the common name. When i bought it a year ago i was told that it was misidentified verawood. I don't recall who told me that, but the samples of Argentine lignum vitae i own don't seem to match this verawood. In particular, i found Argentine lignum to be more bluish. I also find that it darkens very quickly after cutting (within a day), whereas verawood takes many months to change color. And lastly, my verawood is heavily floral in scent, whereas the Argentine lignum is much more spicy. So I've always just assumed it was verawood as claimed. But my conversation with Steve Earis has called that into question now. Steve said his verawood samples aren't very green; they're more yellowish tan. He also noted that his smells sour, which mine definitely does not. We went over magnified end grain photos, and i don't feel it matches either species particularly well.

You can see photos of my purported verawood below.

20260118_004406.webp

20260118_004425.webp

20260118_004501.webp

20260118_004822.webp

20260119_160752.webp

20260119_160731.webp
 
Big Ry said:
I just want to be clear that the reason for this post is so i can have a high degree of certainty in a piece of wood being properly ID'd. There may be many ways to achieve that certainty and i regularly refer to Paul's website and wood database, but at present all commercial venders are equally trustworthy in my eyes because i don't have any reason to suspect they are wrong (with a couple exceptions who i know to be deceptive). But i don't feel that my approach is comprehensive enough, and this issue with the Verawood is what inspired me to try to dig more.

The purported verawood i have actually came from woodcraft of all places. It was sold as "lignum vitae" but obviously isn't Guaiacum officinale. I dont know if they listed a botanical name and the page is no longer active. The email confirmation only lists the common name. When i bought it a year ago i was told that it was misidentified verawood. I don't recall who told me that, but the samples of Argentine lignum vitae i own don't seem to match this verawood. In particular, i found Argentine lignum to be more bluish. I also find that it darkens very quickly after cutting (within a day), whereas verawood takes many months to change color. And lastly, my verawood is heavily floral in scent, whereas the Argentine lignum is much more spicy. So I've always just assumed it was verawood as claimed. But my conversation with Steve Earis has called that into question now. Steve said his verawood samples aren't very green; they're more yellowish tan. He also noted that his smells sour, which mine definitely does not. We went over magnified end grain photos, and i don't feel it matches either species particularly well.

You can see photos of my purported verawood below.

View attachment 283866

View attachment 283867

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Click to expand...
With all that heavy pore feathering (alternating pore layering direction) seen in the face grain, I would have said Verawood right away. As to which, I would stop at Bulnesia spp. which I think you have as Plectrocarpa. So, I'd agree with Steve, being Argentine lignum is just a fancy name given to Verawood to sell more by confusing buyers with genuine Lignum, as in lignum litae, of the Guaiacum genus.

There is a noticeable density difference between the 2 genera, and often you can chart it. Obviously, the smaller the piece, the more increased error of margin.
 
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  • #10
Mr. Peet said:
With all that heavy pore feathering (alternating pore layering direction) seen in the face grain, I would have said Verawood right away. As to which, I would stop at Bulnesia spp. which I think you have as Plectrocarpa. So, I'd agree with Steve, being Argentine lignum is just a fancy name given to Verawood to sell more by confusing buyers with genuine Lignum, as in lignum litae, of the Guaiacum genus.

There is a noticeable density difference between the 2 genera, and often you can chart it. Obviously, the smaller the piece, the more increased error of margin.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input Mark.

I've always thought that Argentine lignum and verawood were different species, because when i see them advertised by those common names they have distinct botanical names. Also, wood database defines them as 2 distinct names, which is where i got my info.

But you're not the first person I've heard say they are the same wood. So I've been pretty confused about these guys to say the least lol.

To clarify, is this what you're trying to say?
Verawood = Bulnesia spp.
Argentine lignum vitae = Plectrocarpa spp.

Or are you saying:
Verawood = Bulnesia spp. & Plectrocarpa spp.
Argentine lignum vitae = fake made up name used to sell Verawood

Or am i still off the mark here?
 
Big Ry said:
Thanks for the input Mark.

I've always thought that Argentine lignum and verawood were different species, because when i see them advertised by those common names they have distinct botanical names. Also, wood database defines them as 2 distinct names, which is where i got my info.

But you're not the first person I've heard say they are the same wood. So I've been pretty confused about these guys to say the least lol.

To clarify, is this what you're trying to say?
Verawood = Bulnesia spp.
Argentine lignum vitae = Plectrocarpa spp.

Or are you saying:
Verawood = Bulnesia spp. & Plectrocarpa spp.
Argentine lignum vitae = fake made up name used to sell Verawood

Or am i still off the mark here?
Click to expand...
In my experience Verawood and Argentine lignum vitae are the same. Both are plectrocarpa spp.

Plectrocarpa is the new name for the genus bulnesia.
The difference between arborea and sarmientoi (in the plectrocarpa genus) is the same as the difference between officianale and sanctum in the guaiacum genus.
 
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  • #12
daniscool said:
In my experience Verawood and Argentine lignum vitae are the same. Both are plectrocarpa spp.

Plectrocarpa is the new name for the genus bulnesia.
The difference between arborea and sarmientoi (in the plectrocarpa genus) is the same as the difference between officianale and sanctum in the guaiacum genus.
Click to expand...
Evidently i have much more to learn about these. Steve sent me a paper on these woods that also covers guaiacum spp. I believe it was from Yale and was dated in the 1920s. I need to read through that and maybe find some other literature. I just ordered a book covering lignum vitae that was published in 2022, so I'm hoping it's going to be very comprehensive and represent the current state of availability of the species. I find this group of woods very fascinating for some reason. I might be partial to the colors of green and brown, but also the density, hardness, and feathering are just so cool in my opinion. Rosewoods are cool, but lignum and it's cousins are better.
 
Big Ry said:
Thanks for the input Mark.

I've always thought that Argentine lignum and verawood were different species, because when i see them advertised by those common names they have distinct botanical names. Also, wood database defines them as 2 distinct names, which is where i got my info.

But you're not the first person I've heard say they are the same wood. So I've been pretty confused about these guys to say the least lol.

To clarify, is this what you're trying to say?
Verawood = Bulnesia spp.
Argentine lignum vitae = Plectrocarpa spp.

Or are you saying:
Verawood = Bulnesia spp. & Plectrocarpa spp.
Argentine lignum vitae = fake made up name used to sell Verawood

Or am i still off the mark here?
Click to expand...
Think Dan simplified what I was saying.
daniscool said:
In my experience Verawood and Argentine lignum vitae are the same. Both are plectrocarpa spp.

Plectrocarpa is the new name for the genus bulnesia.
The difference between arborea and sarmientoi (in the plectrocarpa genus) is the same as the difference between officianale and sanctum in the guaiacum genus.
Click to expand...
Thanks Dan.
 
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