Basket Bowl at The MET NY x Tim @trc65 Illusion Basket

[trc65]

These are the other pieces- I have detailed shots (and measurements) and will post it when I get the chance:

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Thanks Arn!

That first basket by Louisa Keyser (Dat So La Lee) is widely regarded as one of the finest, and most often copied baskets/designs. The weave is so fine, it's almost indiscernible (at least on my phone screen). While I like the simplicity of the design, I've not tried it, as to do it justice would require 30+ stitches per inch which would muddle the design with burned lines. I know of one person who copied the form and design in wood. While his basket was extraordinary, when placed next to a photo of the original, it paled in comparison.

Carrie Bethel (second picture on the right) is another widely recognized weaver whose designs and skills are on par with Louisa Keyser's.

 

[Arn213]

Thanks Arn!

That first basket by Louisa Keyser (Dat So La Lee) is widely regarded as one of the finest, and most often copied baskets/designs. The weave is so fine, it's almost indiscernible (at least on my phone screen). While I like the simplicity of the design, I've not tried it, as to do it justice would require 30+ stitches per inch which would muddle the design with burned lines. I know of one person who copied the form and design in wood. While his basket was extraordinary, when placed next to a photo of the original, it paled in comparison.

Carrie Bethel (second picture on the right) is another widely recognized weaver whose designs and skills are on par with Louisa Keyser's.

Yes, I learned more about them from you and the long write up by the museum on their website. I was looking at their pieces in detail- I actually took detailed pics and dimension just because I knew how important these pieces are. I promise I will post the dimensions and close up in details.

Louisa’s piece is about 13-1/2” wide (diameter) and 12” tall. The center opening is roughly 7” diameter and the bottom is about 8” diameter.

Carrie’s piece is about 18” diameter x 7-1/2” tall. Bottom is 8” diameter. Opening is about 11” diameter.

Very nice form and proportions.

Arn
PS- I can actually scale this in AutoCAD as long as I shoot it straight on without distortion (2D). The camera has to sit level with the object. With the measurements, I can scale it and get it very, very close. Which means the pattern and the weave would be close to being in scale. It is a dangerous tool as you can imagine how this method, things can get replicated.

 

[trc65]

PS- I can actually scale this in AutoCAD as long as I shoot it straight on without distortion (2D). The camera has to sit level with the object. With the measurements, I can scale it and get it very, very close. Which means the pattern and the weave would be close to being in scale. It is a dangerous tool as you can imagine how this method, things can get replicated.

They already are, unfortunately. When I was working on the last Navajo wedding basket illusion, I was searching for variations that had been used over time. Couldn't believe the items and patterns I found for sale, many very cheaply, from eBay, Etsy, Pinterest and others. Obvious that many of the items had been copied from the same digital file(s).

Absolute measurements aren't critical for what I'm doing as I haven't, and don't plan on trying to duplicate the forms. I'm more interested in the colored design elements and adapting them to the constraints of wood.

An interesting observation on symbols and their arrangement. In both of the books I have, the authors noted that ceremonial baskets tended to have an odd number of repeating elements (symbols). They weren't exclusively odd numbered, but symbology definitely favored this trend.

In contrast, many "later" woven items of which I've seen images have even numbered elements. These items weren't produced for ceremonies nor utility, but were made for their artistry (to sell).

No judgement intended, just an interesting anthropological observation.

 

[duncsuss]

Hot damn, those are amazing. Thanks for your effort and sharing these with us, @Arn213

 

[Arn213]

Tim @trc65 here are more of Louisa Keyser’s “Basket Bowl”:

 

[Arn213]

Carrie Bethel’s “Basket Bowl” part 1/2 @trc65:

 

[Arn213]

Carrie Bethel’s “Basket Bowl” part 2/2 @trc65:

 

[trc65]

Wow, that is incredibly detailed! The larger "flame" motifs are doable, but the small white cells are tough to replicate because of the small size and angled layout. The more I look at her design, the more impressed I am. Very few baskets have the complexity and accuracy of this one. I can see why it took her three years to complete.

Really want to try this design, it will be a big challenge! Unfortunately, it won't work for the bowl I have on the lathe. I would have to orient the pattern like the bottom half of the basket with the "flames" pointing down and that would look weird. To do Carrie's pattern justice i would need to do it in two halves and then join them together after the fact. Going to start thinking about that.

For the one on the lathe, may go with the pattern from Lucy Telles' basket you posted yesterday. Lots of challenging detail in that one as well.

 

[Arn213]

Nothing is impossible for you! You’ll figure it out- I know you will! Go for it! The photo’s is not as crisp and detail as the original size on each photo is about 2mb each and when I group them into 5-6 photo’s and email them to me in order to change the size to fit the format of the site, it adds them together and then I have to go down to about 1/3rd to 1/2 the size of each photo’s original size.

I am going to put up several more baskets with the dimensions and other baskets for reference for you, for everyone and so it will also be available for future reference…….

 

[Arn213]

I updated post #40 with dimensions.

 

[trc65]

The photos you've been posting are perfect for how I use them. In fact, they are 10 times better than most pictures I reference for patterns. The books I have date from the early 1900's with photos that are at most subpar.

To adapt patterns I typically count the rows of coils, then extrapolate a width to maintain
proportion among the elements. Then I usually rough sketch a pattern on graph paper to verify my guestimates. The rest is all done with a pencil, straight edge and a pair of dividers on the beaded bowl. Learned after the first couple I made that trying to measure was a waste of time, and much less accurate than using dividers to lay out the elements.

 

[trc65]

I updated post #40 with dimensions.

That one is intriguing, and I think it is going on my list as one to attempt.

Not the style that I normally do, but I think it would be interesting using my method of freehand burning only using larger beads (~10 per inch) and picking up a couple additional colors. The beads aren't radially aligned in the original (except on vertical, color changing edges) which lends itself to my style of beading.

 

[duncsuss]

The beads aren't radially aligned in the original (except on vertical, color changing edges) which lends itself to my style of beading.

The first thought that popped into my mind when I looked at the photo was "a special purpose burner tip might be really helpful for these beads". Perhaps a thin walled cylinder (to burn the round outline) with a ball against the inner wall (to burn the "hole" in the bead).

And then I started thinking it might be fun to go try making a tip like that even though I have no aspirations at all to do basket illusions. Look, a squirrel

 

[Steve in VA]

Thanks for posting all of these Arn as these are fantastic reference points and examples, many of which I've seen online. I'm working on a series of baskets / bowls / hollow forms in the Chumash style, so this thread is particularly interesting and well timed to keep me inspired and going. Thank you!

 

[Arn213]

To continue with post #40 with the object on the far left, Belle Hildreth Varriel “Gift Basket”, but on this post it would be the piece at the very bottom:













@trc65
@Steve in VA
@duncsuss

 

[Arn213]

Here are some miscellaneous “box”.

Ojibwe artist
Quilled Box
Ontario, ca. 1830
Porcupine quills, birch bark, wood, pigment









Mi kmaq artist
“Quilled Box”
Northeastern Woodlands, Canada, ca. 1850

 

[Arn213]

Harold Jacobs (Yanyeidi):

 

[Arn213]

Ada Vulcan Thomas
“Trunk with Lid and Basket with Lid”

 

[trc65]

It's a good thing I'm a woodturner, otherwise, I'm not sure if be able to resist trying my hand at basket weaving!

Somewhere in here should be the joke of the star college athlete upping their GPA by taking the basket weaving class.

Although obvious differences occur in materials used by region, I also find it interesting to see the different methods of weaving, as well as shapes of finished vessels. The coiled baskets (with rounded shapes and bottoms seem to have originated, and are somewhat unique to, southwestern North America while other regions seem to have flat bottoms with both rectangular and rounded sides. Vessels originating from the Southwest also seem to have mostly open tops while most examples from other regions have a lid of some sort. Perhaps no lids were needed in the arid southwest, but other regions needed lids to keep rainfall out? I'm sure it's not that quite that simple, and there were many different uses based on regional diet, but still an interesting point to ponder. I'm sure there have been many anthropological studies that would answer these questions, but pondering these questions for a short while is much more enjoyable than doing a deep dive into published studies.

Regardless, my thanks again to Arn for posting these pictures, it is a great resource to have close at hand.

 

[trc65]

@Steve in VA was re- reading the thread and just realized I didn't get back to you about the threads at the AAW site.

The last post in this thread has links to the various discussions on ink pen choice. One of them shows how Bill Boehme (and me copying Bill) sands the nibs to a spear point for the Copic pens.

What brand of ink pen is a viable alternative for basket illusion work?

I have been using Faber-Castell Pitt pens exclusively since I began doing basket illusion. I just found out today that Faber-Castel has made the decision to discontinue the Super fine 0.3 nib pen that I use to do all the detail color work. Once they sell out of the existing inventory the ""S"...

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