# Exploring Your Mind



## Kevin (Apr 28, 2014)

20 years ago when I first heard of Julian Jaynes at a family reunion I was excited to get a copy given to me of his groundbreaking _"The Origin of Consciousness in the Break-Down of the Bicameral Mind"_. I don't think I ever got past the first chapter before realizing I didn't have a clue wtf he was talking about. So when I got my monthly newsletter from the JJ Society today letting me know of a audio of him giving a lecture I thought woopie! a video I can follow what he's going to say now . . . . 






But I still don't know wtf he is talking about. He's either a genius or he's a crackpot with a Ph.D . I know a lot of smart people think he is a pioneer of the human mind. 

I understood Einstein's General Theory of Relativity the second time I read it, along with another book written by another physicist that explained it in lay terms. But I can't get what JJ is on about.


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 28, 2014)

I get confused reading instruction manuals for bandsaws... this is WAY over my head

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## hobbit-hut (Apr 28, 2014)

Elementary my dear Watson. It's all faith based. Been sold around the world by many a carnival barker and the ever popular snake oil salesman. Got two unopened bottles of it left out of the case I bought. Notice you have to pay to get the full report. Send that check to an address I provide and get a discount with the same information. I call it the Wal-Mart of thought. Oh and Welcome to Wal-Mart.


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## Kevin (Apr 28, 2014)

No it is actually secular totally nothing to do with spirituality or that terrible thing called religion. IN fact I'm 99% sure he was an avowed athiest. Also all of his material is available free - I think they just selling it as a package if you don't want to hunt it down.


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## Mike Jones (Apr 28, 2014)

Kevin, just have JJ call me....I'll be happy to boil it down for him and tell him what is so and what is not so.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## hobbit-hut (Apr 28, 2014)

Kevin said:


> No it is actually secular totally nothing to do with spirituality or that terrible thing called religion. IN fact I'm 99% sure he was an avowed athiest. Also all of his material is available free - I think they just selling it as a package if you don't want to hunt it down.


When I say faith based I'm not referring to religion. But it would take a giant leap of faith to believe his discovery. Because it is an area of ideas that can not be proven. Foolish of me, but I would wager a fist full of dollars without seeing anymore information that there is no way to prove him right or wrong. He's as safe as a Big Mac. at a Vegan fest.


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## DKMD (Apr 28, 2014)

Am I to assume that this Jaynes is from the same lineage, Kevin?

I'm not all that well read on psychology or the idea of conciousness, but the clip was basically him saying that every other theory of conciousness is pure crapola... It cut off before he got to his answer. I'll see it I can track down his theory and boil it down... I find this kind of thing fascinating!

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 2


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## DKMD (Apr 28, 2014)

Interesting... After a brief survey of several sites, I'll tell you what it think I know. Haynes defines conciousness as the ability to be introspective(ie. thinking about thought). He feels that it's a fairly recent development, and prior to the evolutionary capacity for conciousness, human beings operated in a different state. According to Jaynes, now dormant areas on the right side of the brain 'spoke' to the left side of the brain when people were faced with novel situations. He proposes that much of recorded religion involving Devine voices is actually the product of this internal communication. He theorizes some of modern religion is in response to this internal dialogue that we evolved away from.

His theory is controversial(aren't they all), but there is some evidence of over active right brain in auditory schizophrenia... So maybe he's not as crazy as his critics suggest.

It's interesting stuff. Based on what I scanned, his work is more about how humans functioned prior to conciousness rather than an explanation of how we became concious.

Reactions: Great Post 2 | Informative 1


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## hobbit-hut (Apr 28, 2014)

Well hummmm , Doc does that mean my money is safe and I'm just not fully aware of it ?


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## DKMD (Apr 28, 2014)

hobbit-hut said:


> Well hummmm , Doc does that mean my money is safe and I'm just not fully aware of it ?



What does the voice from your right brain tell you?


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## hobbit-hut (Apr 28, 2014)

Oh , that's the one that tells me to stay on the road less traveled.


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## Mike1950 (Apr 28, 2014)

I was an employer for 25 years and i know just enough of how brains work ( or don't) to know i want to know no more.......................

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Kevin (Apr 28, 2014)

Doc that was excellent. After I read your description it finally came together for me what he was saying. I have always had trouble trying to understand anything to do with psychology. Physics and mechanical type stuff I can grasp but the psych end of things and I'm just not wired for it. Thanks for the excellent cliff notes.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## hobbit-hut (Apr 28, 2014)

What I find most interesting is that the evidence to support his theory is based on a diseased mind. 
I also find it interesting that the way you tell the staff from the patients in a psycho ward.
The staff has the keys.


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## Kevin (Apr 28, 2014)

hobbit-hut said:


> What I find most interesting is that the evidence to support his theory is based on a diseased mind.



How do you mean?


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## hobbit-hut (Apr 28, 2014)

To quote what the Doc wrote " but there is some evidence of over active right brain in auditory schizophrenia"


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## Kevin (Apr 28, 2014)

Well I don't presume to be educated enough to discuss it at an academic level but you seem to be taking things out of context. Again that is just my opinion and I'm not saying you're doing it intentionally but you impress me as someone who has an axe to grind on this subject as you seem to be poo-pooing it at every turn. I don't have a problem with that all though because I do the same thing when I discuss something I think is farcical and I think that's where you're coming from. If I understood it better I might feel the same - I think you just understand it better than me and that's the difference. 

I don't have a dog in the race at all I just wanted to understand what the guy was saying, and after all these years of wondering the good Doctor was able to distill for me in a way that I had an aha! moment and that was what I was after. Anything else is gravy. Keep it coming.


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## hobbit-hut (Apr 28, 2014)

My education is in medical science and it's an area where I do have a lot of experience. I don't have an axe to grind. I think it's an interesting subject. I'm glad you brought it up because I was unaware of it. I formed an opinion based on the clip you provided. I understood what he said and knew it couldn't be proven. I was trying to be light hearted in my response to it. Overall it's an interesting subject and when combined with studies on behavior is where it has real benefit. An interesting read on the subject would be Dr. William Glasser " Perception controlled behavior " of particular interest is what he had to say about former President Lyndon Baines Johnson a fellow Texan. Please accept my apology.

Reactions: Like 1


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## barry richardson (Apr 28, 2014)

hobbit-hut said:


> My education is in medical science and it's an area where I do have a lot of experience. I don't have an axe to grind. I think it's an interesting subject. I'm glad you brought it up because I was unaware of it. I formed an opinion based on the clip you provided. I understood what he said and knew it couldn't be proven. I was trying to be light hearted in my response to it. Overall it's an interesting subject and when combined with studies on behavior is where it has real benefit. An interesting read on the subject would be Dr. William Glasser " Perception controlled behavior " of particular interest is what he had to say about former President Lyndon Baines Johnson a fellow Texan. Please accept my apology.


Uh oh, now your gonna diss a Texan?.........


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## DKMD (Apr 28, 2014)

I just scanned a bit of Glasser's basic principles, and I think he has some interesting ideas. That form of therapy appeals to me based on my own personal principles. He's got some great quotes as well. I couldn't find the LBJ stuff, so if you've got a link, I'd love to read it.

Although I don't have any experience in psychotherapy, I've seen some folks for whom Glasser's approach wouldn't seem effective. Of course, I suspect that none of the therapy schools have 100% efficacy... Nothing else works every time, so I don't know why psychotherapy should be any different. With that said, I think Glasser's approach would be a fantastic way to coax some folks back into being productive citizens.


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## hobbit-hut (Apr 28, 2014)

barry richardson said:


> Uh oh, now your gonna diss a Texan?.........


I'll have to keep my opinion on him to myself. I was out to his ranch on several occasions. I saw him the day he died also.


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## hobbit-hut (Apr 28, 2014)

DKMD said:


> I just scanned a bit of Glasser's basic principles, and I think he has some interesting ideas. That form of therapy appeals to me based on my own personal principles. He's got some great quotes as well. I couldn't find the LBJ stuff, so if you've got a link, I'd love to read it.
> 
> Although I don't have any experience in psychotherapy, I've seen some folks for whom Glasser's approach wouldn't seem effective. Of course, I suspect that none of the therapy schools have 100% efficacy... Nothing else works every time, so I don't know why psychotherapy should be any different. With that said, I think Glasser's approach would be a fantastic way to coax some folks back into being productive citizens.


I don't know what there is online about his writing. I read the book at least five times and used his ideas on occasion. He basically took you through the thought process, based on his principles, of what he reasoned LBJ went through to make the most important decision in his life.


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## Fret440 (Apr 29, 2014)

So those of use who are left handed, and therefore use our right brains regularly, would be predisposed to this right? I'm gonna go talk to my voices and see what kinda ideas they have. 

Jacob

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Kevin (Apr 29, 2014)

hobbit-hut said:


> of particular interest is what he had to say about former President Lyndon Baines Johnson a fellow Texan.



LBJ was a thug, a lowlife scumbag, and other things even worse not fit to discuss. You won't get any argument from me about him having a diseased mind. And a diseased and evil spirit IMO.


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## Kenbo (Apr 29, 2014)

Kevin said:


> LBJ was a thug, a lowlife scumbag, and other things even worse not fit to discuss. You won't get any argument from me about him having a diseased mind. And a diseased and evil spirit IMO.




It's not good to suppress your feelings like that Kevin. It will cause undo stress.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Kevin (Apr 29, 2014)

Kenbo said:


> It's not good to suppress your feelings like that Kevin. It will cause undo stress.



I think it actually works to undo the stress lol. . .

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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