# Aromatic cedar finishing question...



## sgartennga (Mar 13, 2015)

Hey everyone! I have been making turkey box calls out of aromatic cedar for a little while and noticed that when I cut out a bunch of parts last year and left them to dry out until this spring, something (the remaining sap, I assume) seems to have seeped up onto the surface of the wood and formed what look like big sugar crystals. They sanded off with no problem, but if I don't seal the wood, would it be normal for this to keep happening? I'd hate to give someone a call and have it happen after the person has had it a while, you know? I just don't have much long term experience with this and was wondering if someone else here does and could provide some guidance. Thanks!


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## NYWoodturner (Mar 13, 2015)



Reactions: Agree 1


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## Schroedc (Mar 13, 2015)

I've had pen blanks do this for several years but never done it once I've put a finish on them. I've got an old jewelry box made in the 50's that has this on the unfinished inside so I'm guessing it's the volatile compounds still in the wood coming out (Probably what makes it smell so good.....)


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## ssgmeader (Mar 18, 2015)

What your seeing is the Cedrol in the Cedar Oil crystalizing on the wood. It's pretty common on ERC, and I see it all the time on the blanks I have once you seal it though you shouldn't have an issue.

They are used in the perfume industry apparently, you just may want to be careful breathing them in - they are potentially toxic to certain people with allergies, and prolonged exposure can cause respiratory issues.

Reactions: Agree 1 | +Karma 1


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## sgartennga (Mar 18, 2015)

Note to self...'Cedar might kill you. Consider another favorite wood to work with.'
Ugh.


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## Kevin (Mar 18, 2015)

Stephen cedar won't kill you unless you eat it, and even then it's the splinters that'll send you to the next dimension before the toxins most likely. As far as the cedrol crystallizing it happens for a reason, not arbitrarily or because of some mysterious set of circumstances. The oils in cedar are similar to the sap in pine when it comes to "running". Each time the oil sees a new high in temperature it will begin to liquefy and run again. Once they begin to cool back down they will crystallize.

Sealing the wood with anything will not prevent the oils from liquefying and no amount, or type of finish will hold them in when they want to come out because the gasses produced during re-liquefaction are going to gind a way through no matter what. This will eventually (or quickly) cause an unwanted result with the finish. Some finishes are also not great choices for ERC even without the oils running and then crystallizing. The best choices in my opinion are finishes that allow the wood to breathe, unless your wood was kiln dried to a temp higher than it'll likely ever see and then placed into service where the elements can't get to it.

JMO based on my experience not claiming to be an expert. This approach has worked for me though.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## sgartennga (Mar 19, 2015)

...but what if I'm really hungry? It just smells so good!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## sgartennga (Mar 19, 2015)

Thanks for the info. I wasn't really that worried - just kididng around...although I should probably be better about wearing a mask in general when making sawdust

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Charles Neil (Mar 19, 2015)

yes , it will continue, a coat of dewaxed shellac , is the first step on cedar, it will seal it down, however its not very durable, perhaps a coat of Arm R seal over that .


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## sgartennga (Mar 19, 2015)

I got some OLD cedar out of a barn that was very dry to work with a while back. It seems as though when the wood dries, the red color turns more toward brown and there's less 'sap', to seep out - and it loses its smell a bit. I THINK this only happened with the new cedar I worked with, now that you mention it


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## Kevin (Mar 19, 2015)

sgartennga said:


> and there's less 'sap', to seep out



That's because it got really hot in that barn. It'll have to get hotter still for the oil to run again. 

The surface will oxidize and darken just like all species. Re sanding will bring the color and aroma right back out. Traditional cedar closets have no sealer at all for this reason.


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## sgartennga (Mar 19, 2015)

...then they'd smell good enough to eat, again, eh? Sweet!

Reactions: Like 1


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## eaglea1 (Mar 19, 2015)

sgartennga said:


> ...then they'd smell good enough to eat, again, eh? Sweet!


 
Yeah, then we could see you on that tv show "My strange addiction"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Charles Neil (Mar 19, 2015)

Cedar has a natural oil that migrates to the surface and creates the sugar like crystals. It also seals the wood and the smell off, usually a light sanding will re-open it . but it will return. If you use an oil type of finish it can often intermix with the natural oil in the wood and never fully dry. Thus the shellac to solidify the oil and seal it off . However , it does pretty well left natural with no finish,.


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## sgartennga (Mar 19, 2015)

Charles Neil said:


> Cedar has a natural oil that migrates to the surface and creates the sugar like crystals.


...and if you try to make a wonderful southern drink by mixing it with tea YOU'LL FRIGGIN DIE!


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## sgartennga (Mar 19, 2015)

Charles Neil said:


> Cedar has a natural oil that migrates to the surface and creates the sugar like crystals. It also seals the wood and the smell off, usually a light sanding will re-open it . but it will return. If you use an oil type of finish it can often intermix with the natural oil in the wood and never fully dry. Thus the shellac to solidify the oil and seal it off . However , it does pretty well left natural with no finish,.


I like it natural, really. I've just seen some calls that have a nice slick finish on them, too. Leaving it natural has a cool rustic look in my opinion


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## Graybeard (Mar 28, 2015)

Boy, did I find this out the hard way.




Kevin said:


> Sealing the wood with anything will not prevent the oils from liquefying and no amount, or type of finish will hold them in when they want to come out because the gasses produced during re-liquefaction are going to find a way through no matter what




I made a replica box of an old fly fisherman and donated it to a fly fishing organization. They collected hand tied flies from guys all over the state and put them in the box. The man that won it sadly died soon after that and his widow commented on how proud he was to have won that. She happens to be a friend of a cousin of mine and when he called I swallowed hard. Seems the oils came out and every fly was stuck together in a clump.


I got the box back and cleaned with acetate, then sealed with spray lacquer. My cousin, bless his heart, took every fly and cleaned them.


I haven't heard since but I'll never make another box out of Eastern Red Cedar!!

Graybeard


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