# Vacuum pumps



## fredito

Looking at getting into stabilizing wood and I have a vac question. What is the difference between a 3cfm single state pump rated at 50 microns and dual stage pump rated at 2cfm rated at 10 microns. Its a $5 difference, the main difference I see is the dual stage can do 110/220v. I would be using 110, but does a vac really need 220?? Also, it looks like the 2 stage can pull to 10 micron, vs 50, but is that necessary for stabilizing? I can post links on these if needed. All of this stuff is pretty new to me so I'm pretty confused.
Thanks

Reactions: Informative 1


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## manbuckwal

fredito said:


> Looking at getting into stabilizing wood and I have a vac question. What is the difference between a 3cfm single state pump rated at 50 microns and dual stage pump rated at 2cfm rated at 10 microns. Its a $5 difference, the main difference I see is the dual stage can do 110/220v. I would be using 110, but does a vac really need 220?? Also, it looks like the 2 stage can pull to 10 micron, vs 50, but is that necessary for stabilizing? I can post links on these if needed. All of this stuff is pretty new to me so I'm pretty confused.
> Thanks



@TurnTex website has some good info regarding diff pumps . I will look for a link


http://www.turntex.com/index.php?op...article&id=61:vacuum-pumps&catid=35&Itemid=61


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## Schroedc

Post links to the pumps you are looking at. Personally, after using what I use I would recommend a JB pump. You pay some more but in the long term I think it's worth it.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## fredito

I have it down to 3 set ups:
First would be Curtis 4" with the robinair 3cfm pump he recommends
Next two are the ones Im wondering about, but also wondering about 1.5 gal ones they have
3cfm set up:
http://www.bestvaluevacs.com/bvv1glss-rs1.html
dual stage:
http://www.bestvaluevacs.com/1glss-vp2d.html

if it helps any, I mostly do duck calls, pens, bottle stoppers, ect. Have some stuff I could maybe make peppermill blanks out of but would want to stablize...realizing a pepper mill is longer, I may consider sending it off to be done if it was a large cost difference in size
Thanks again


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## TurnTex

Of the two BestValue options you point out, based on only the pump, I would go with the second one. The first one is a generic Chinese pump and I know folks who have that same pump and have already tossed it. The second one is from CPS which is still made in China but at least they are a vacuum pump company. As for CFM and micron rating, read my article linked above to get the full scoop. Bottom line, it really does not make a difference.


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## fredito

TurnTex said:


> Of the two BestValue options you point out, based on only the pump, I would go with the second one. The first one is a generic Chinese pump and I know folks who have that same pump and have already tossed it. The second one is from CPS which is still made in China but at least they are a vacuum pump company. As for CFM and micron rating, read my article linked above to get the full scoop. Bottom line, it really does not make a difference.


Thanks Curtis, I appreciate it. It was brought to my attention by another member that the lids on these ones are acrylic which may not go so good with resin. So that narrows my list down really fast. Curtis, like I said before, I mostly do duck calls, pens and bottle stoppers, but may do a peppermill every now and then. How tight will a peppermill blank be in the 4" or would the 6" be better? I haven't done one before but want to leave the option open.
Thanks


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## TurnTex

Peppermill blanks will fit fine in a 4" chamber. You just need to make sure the chamber is tall enough. Figure out the max length of material you will stabilize and add a minimum of 4" for head space. The main difference between my chambers and the others you linked are that mine are clear so you can see what is going on much better. With the other chambers, all you can do is see down into it and know something is coming to the surface. You can tell so much more about what is going on by being able to see through the chamber. That said, I lot of folks have used the Best Value and similar system for stabilizing with no issues and they seem to work well. Heck, you could also do your own. Their chambers are just large cooking pots with a gasket and lids. You can also make a chamber with a pickle jar if you are inclined. I stabilized for many years in a large mason jar with no issues.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## fredito

TurnTex said:


> Peppermill blanks will fit fine in a 4" chamber. You just need to make sure the chamber is tall enough. Figure out the max length of material you will stabilize and add a minimum of 4" for head space. The main difference between my chambers and the others you linked are that mine are clear so you can see what is going on much better. With the other chambers, all you can do is see down into it and know something is coming to the surface. You can tell so much more about what is going on by being able to see through the chamber. That said, I lot of folks have used the Best Value and similar system for stabilizing with no issues and they seem to work well. Heck, you could also do your own. Their chambers are just large cooking pots with a gasket and lids. You can also make a chamber with a pickle jar if you are inclined. I stabilized for many years in a large mason jar with no issues.


Good point about being able to see from the side what is going on. I would build one myself but it would probably be easier to just get one done, especially if I had problems there would be really no one to trouble shoot it with in person. What I would really like to build though is a pressure pot for casting, but the idea of building something that if you mess up could have huge consequences is really turning me off......I just need to stop buying wood so I can buy a pump and chamber


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## TurnTex

Please don't try to build your own pressure pot or even skimp on one. I guess you could build one if you are the right kind of engineer to design one and had a certified welder who could weld it up and then xray the welds to make sure they will hold! A pressure pot failure can have life ending consequences! I had a Harbor Freight pot fail and it was an underwear ending experience! Fortunately, I was not next to it when it went.


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## fredito

TurnTex said:


> Please don't try to build your own pressure pot or even skimp on one. I guess you could build one if you are the right kind of engineer to design one and had a certified welder who could weld it up and then xray the welds to make sure they will hold! A pressure pot failure can have life ending consequences! I had a Harbor Freight pot fail and it was an underwear ending experience! Fortunately, I was not next to it when it went.


Then only way I would cast would be to use rated pot for it and thise are like $600 so it's off the table for me.


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## TurnTex

Fred, Keep your eye on the local pawn shops and garage sales. You can also get lucky on e-bay sometimes. I bought one of my 4 Binks pots on E-bay a few years ago brand new for $225 delivered. It was listed wrong and I had been doing some alternative searches such as "painting pot", "Blinks", "Brinks", etc. No one else even bid on it since it was listed wrong and no one found it. Also, don't be afraid of one that has paint all over it. With a little elbow grease, you can get it cleaned up nicely. Another option is to find an older, cast iron top pot. There were a number of different brands of the same pot in the 50's and are quite common at garage sales for $10. They will not be rated but they are made in USA and I would trust them over a China made and engineered pot from HF any day!


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## Alan Sweet

Another good source for Vacuum information and system information is Joe Woodworker, http://www.joewoodworker.com/.

He is primarily interested in veneer and veneer installation, but offers a lot of insight into vacuum systems.


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## TurnTex

Alan, The only issue with his systems is they are mostly all diaphragm pumps and do not produce enough vacuum for good stabilizing. He does indeed have good info for vacuum pressing but a good bit of that does NOT translate over to stabilizing. When vac pressing, you do not need the super deep vacuum we need for stabilizing so they do things such as run the oil less pumps and use switches to turn the pump on and off which is not recommended for stabilizing.


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## Alan Sweet

Curtis,(@TurnTex) ty. (I did not intend to hijack thread.) I have had an interest in some table size veneering AND stabilizing. I have been pondering putting together a mobile vacuum system which could do both. Do you think that is achievable?


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## TurnTex

Alan, You could but it would be best to have a pump for each use. The reason being that the type pump for vacuum veneering is great for that but does not produce deep vacuum. The best pump for stabilizing produces more vacuum than you may need and if you regulate by having a valve part way open, you will get a lot of oil mist in your shop. If I had to choose one or the other, I would use an oil filled pump and then consider making a filter for the oil mist as necessary.


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