# logic over stupidity



## brown down (Feb 11, 2014)

My rant within Mike1950's rant, I stated some fact based opinions and I couldn't find the video clips for the life of me. Which i have found once again. Now most, if not all of you, don't know i have underwent 4 major reconstructive surgeries since 09. up until my bone fusion in my neck, i was taking morphine 2x a day! My neck surgeon told me I wasn't going to live much longer on those meds, hell I knew that, but was ONE of the few things in life that gave me relief from that pain!

now i would be lying and to be honest, I will not and never will care what someone feels about me with the things i put into my body. That will always be my choice! thats the key word there "CHOICE"

It utterly amazes me on the absolute stupidity in the logic these guys bring to the table. Must be a political thing to try and throw a curve ball back at the gentleman asking the questions without answering said question. even when they are asked questions based on scientific, statistics facts!! They choose to dance around the question. 

I honestly have been beating my head against the wall with something that has sooooooooo many great benefits, yet it holds the same value to most as heroin/ cocane/ meth. 

I for one, will attest to that fact that the benefits of this evil plant out weigh any negative prospect of it! 

Facts are facts and science always tells the truth.

sorry for the rant, I will always believe in choice, and will always try to base my opinions off facts never emotions which i see is the major problem we are facing within our gov!

here is the one i couldn't find 
http://www.upworthy.com/congressman...-to-answer-a-simple-marijuana-question?c=ufb1


the other is of the same guy getting questioned but from a different gentleman


----------



## Tclem (Feb 11, 2014)

Well this is just my opinion. If someone fells they need any type of anything for healing, pain relief, or whatever the reason is to live longer and healthier. Fine. Great. And I'll go with that. But, the facts I know and see every day is people using drugs for fun which leads to stealing, robbing, murder, and all sorts of crime. My personal experience is the majority of the articles I read are of crimes due to drugs. Once again if it is needed for medical reason. Great. Pills can be lumped into the category of drugs causing crimes. As far as I'm concerned alcohol is another one. I know many many many many people who use all of the drugs. Not just one of them but all because they all give them the felling they want and these are facts. How do I know. I started smoking marijuana in high school then cocaine then meth. Thank God I was saved and been cleaned for several years now. I am not saying any of these are a "gateway" drug but the drug crowd has more than one drug available at parties and one thing leads to another. How do I know these facts. Because I've been there done that. A choice to put something into your body for medical reason I will totally agree with. A choice to put things into your body for fun that will tear your body up. No sir. Not one bit. Fact everywhere about what those drugs do to you. Will I say marijuana can be a party drug, abused and tear your body up and make you do stupid things. Yes I will but so will hamburgers coke and French fries. The benefits may outweigh the risk if used properly but I know facts of 1000 of my friends who are dead or in jail or whose lives are totally ruined due to us smoking in high school then on to the hard stuff. Just facts that I know. Once again. I believe that if someone needs anything to live longer or pain free. Go for it. I back you 100%. 
Tony


----------



## Blueglass (Feb 11, 2014)

Can't legislate vices people will always look for escape. As far as meth and those things you cannot legislate against stupidity either. If someone wants to snort something with drain cleaner in it that is on them. If it is pushed on kids or someone commits a real crime to get it burn them! I believe in freedom and natural selection. If the laws actually controlled stupidity it would still dumb down the human race. I know I have a harsh view but it is reality and people still get these things that are "controlled".

Cannabis on the other hand is an herb that has thousands of years of use. Second most used remedy after aspirin until it was legislated away to make way for the petrol and paper industries. I have seen it in action for its medical uses and it at least brought comfort to a friend who was in extreme pain up until his death. He was afraid to use it very often because he didn't want his other medications taken away. 

I used to be a big fan of recreational use but enjoy reality now. I never had a problem dropping it and I did not move on to harder drugs. Those things scared and appalled me.

Do you have any idea how many things hemp was used for until it was outlawed? I would LOVE to have real hemp Levis, I might have them the rest of my life.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Mike1950 (Feb 11, 2014)

Les- totally agree- The white powders steal your soul- Pot-well endangers the goodies in your fridge.
I think you have to go back to the reason for keeping pot illegal in my other thread-MONEY- Lawyers-unions- private prisons all would take a big hit- helluva revenue maker- takin peoples stuff and putting them in prison for growing pot. Think about it- a government that thinks the solution to the problem (Fast and Furious) is givin guns to the bad guys. Nobody in power wants a solution- They want the MONEY. 
Our state voted yes but they still are dragging their feet- we voted for charter schools- quite a majority but the head education dept. is sueing- What the hell happened to we the people??? Seems like everyone is happy with just what they have- a larger prison population they any other country- half for drugs- seems to me if we eliminated the black market for all drugs- the big money to be made would disappear and so would the violence. Should be our goal- we all would be safer. But what the hell do I know- I am just the .

Reactions: Like 1 | Great Post 1


----------



## ripjack13 (Feb 11, 2014)

It always comes down to money when the governments involved. Government Greed .....that should be outlawed.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Tclem (Feb 11, 2014)

I honesty believe the money would disappear but why about the effects of the drugs. Alcohol is legal and the big money disappeared but what about all the DUI a and violence that comes from it. It is still here and alcohol is legal. All these things used in a recreational use lead to bad things whether legal or not. I just wish buckeye burl and amboyna burl was cheaper. Lol


----------



## Blueglass (Feb 11, 2014)

Man I'm really jones'in for a fat burl RIGHT NOW!

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1


----------



## Mike1950 (Feb 11, 2014)

We have the effects of the drugs now- Perfect it would not be- but I think the money we are spending fighting it for the last 50 years could probably have been put to better use- I do not think it has changed one thing.
Kinda like LBJ's push to eliminate poverty- 50 years- poverty has been reduced by less then 4% and at a cost of 17,000,000,000,000 that's is 17 trillion- the national debt. 
when you or I make a choice we have a 50/50 shot of being right- the government- their odds are considerably worse...........+

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## brown down (Feb 12, 2014)

This is an absolute touchy subject for sure and I really hope this doesn't offend anyone in anyway shape or form on this forum!!!! on both sides of the spectrum. those whom have used and those whom choose not too! 

I bet there are a lot of people who have no idea that HEMP was the largest cultivated crop in the US before it was illegal!
IMO you can never compare the damages done from chemical based drugs vs natural. 

Mike hit the nail on the head! WE will never win this war! enough is enough! way too many good peoples lives have been ruined because of bunch of bureaucrats making stupid decisions with my tax $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

really how many times have you come across a pissed off pothead thats gonna break into your home and rob and possibly worse, to supply their habit? 
I know of zero people!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is how i look at it, we already allow people to choose to drink and to smoke and make significant tax revenue by it! why not with something that will never stop or go away. absolutely don't encourage it, but let people make their own choice. quit spending billions trying to stop and accept the fact it will always be here, wether you agree with it or not!

I too could go for a fat burl right now!

I am gonna go in the shop and stare at my burls

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Tclem (Feb 12, 2014)

I believe all of us here are going to respect each other's decision without any hard feelings that's why this place is a family for me. I agree with a lot that is being said and some. Well I don't. BUT that why we all have opinions and so far it seems all of us are grown and handled it well. We all just want to tell our side. I disagree a little in the fact that I know a little first hand experience and that my father works at the sheriffs department and I see and hear these things. I remember what I and my buddies use to do and know what a lot of my old friends are doing. Do I believe that pot will cause someone to go crazy and rape and murder. No I don't but what it will do to your body as far as slowing you down and making decision making it will change a person. It will impare you. Once again. Medical use. OK. Just to have a good time and destroy your body and put my family at risk because they are driving high. NOT OK. That's alcohol also in my book. I've done it is the only reason I feel I have a voice. No feelings hurt on my side and hopefully I've hurt no feelings. I enjoy all you guys and gals and if anyone needs anything from me no matter if we have different options. Hit me up. Just a phone call away.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


----------



## Mike1950 (Feb 12, 2014)

Tclem said:


> I honesty believe the money would disappear but why about the effects of the drugs. Alcohol is legal and the big money disappeared but what about all the DUI a and violence that comes from it. It is still here and alcohol is legal. All these things used in a recreational use lead to bad things whether legal or not. I just wish buckeye burl and amboyna burl was cheaper. Lol




Tony- look back in history- prohibition- It solved absolutely no problems but created huge ones- look at the escalation of violence. Look what happened when it was made legal again? Somebody said you cannot legislate morality I wonder how many times we have to prove it? Kinda Ironic that a huge share of the heroin in the world comes from poppies grown-Where??? Afghanistan??? Hmm- I wonder how much of our hard earned tax money goes to subsidize those fields. 
I go back to my original thought- it is not about right/wrong- moral/immoral- agree/disagree It is about the money!!!

PS I have absolutely no dog in this fight- at this point in life I could care less- just the perspective of a flower child era .............

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Tclem (Feb 12, 2014)

Mike1950 said:


> Tony- look back in history- prohibition- It solved absolutely no problems but created huge ones- look at the escalation of violence. Look what happened when it was made legal again? Somebody said you cannot legislate morality I wonder how many times we have to prove it? Kinda Ironic that a huge share of the heroin in the world comes from poppies grown-Where??? Afghanistan??? Hmm- I wonder how much of our hard earned tax money goes to subsidize those fields.
> I go back to my original thought- it is not about right/wrong- moral/immoral- agree/disagree It is about the money!!!
> 
> PS I have absolutely no dog in this fight- at this point in life I could care less- just the perspective of a flower child era .............


I guess I'm looking at things more in the morality side of it. Harming our bodies. Hey I know what it did to mine. So thankful that God saved me. I totally agree that government does what they want to keep the money flow going. I've just seen so many horrible things because of it but hey. People do worse with less also. Guess I just want and try so hard to show where I've come from and what I overcame and who I've become and how much better I am because of it. Now if I can just quit eating that stupid candy bar because it's bad for me too. Lol
Ok I took a day off work today heater going in the shop. Y'all be looking for pictures

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## scrimman (Feb 12, 2014)

I live way down here on the border, and I've sat on my porch and listened to the firefights happening on the other side of the border. I, for one, wish they would just legalize the cannabis and take most of the money out of those animal's pockets. It won't break them (there's always the cocaine and meth shipments) but it is their major cash cow. To me, it's just prohibition all over again. How is it that we never seem to learn from our own history? They put it as schedule one substance, which ranks it right up there with heroin, cocaine, and all those other drugs which can and will kill you if you take too much. Even alcohol will kill you if you drink too much of it, but the only way you'll die directly from cannabis is smoke inhalation. And the claim that it has no medicinal uses I think has been thoroughly debunked. I think it seriously contributes to the drug problem I see in my students. They take the approach that if the gov't is lying about cannabis than the rest of the list, like, say, meth, must not be that bad for you either. They haven't built up the wisdom yet that taking something made by a redneck with a chemistry set is a really, really BAD idea.

As for the morals of the subject, I leave that to the individual. I've known plenty of folks that started smoking that stuff and wound up in some pretty dark places ala Mr. Tclem (real glad the Light came and found you, by the way) because it let them to other drugs, but I know of even more that still 'partake' to this day that are decent people and functioning members of society. (I was raised by flower children, you see) Its just how they unwind at the end of the week. 

Just my two cents about the matter. Now to go stare at my curly Walnut boards and dream of what they'll become; that's my stress relief valve.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Mike1950 (Feb 12, 2014)

scrimman said:


> I live way down here on the border, and I've sat on my porch and listened to the firefights happening on the other side of the border. I, for one, wish they would just legalize the cannabis and take most of the money out of those animal's pockets. It won't break them (there's always the cocaine and meth shipments) but it is their major cash cow. To me, it's just prohibition all over again. How is it that we never seem to learn from our own history? They put it as schedule one substance, which ranks it right up there with heroin, cocaine, and all those other drugs which can and will kill you if you take too much. Even alcohol will kill you if you drink too much of it, but the only way you'll die directly from cannabis is smoke inhalation. And the claim that it has no medicinal uses I think has been thoroughly debunked. I think it seriously contributes to the drug problem I see in my students. They take the approach that if the gov't is lying about cannabis than the rest of the list, like, say, meth, must not be that bad for you either. They haven't built up the wisdom yet that taking something made by a redneck with a chemistry set is a really, really BAD idea.
> 
> As for the morals of the subject, I leave that to the individual. I've known plenty of folks that started smoking that stuff and wound up in some pretty dark places ala Mr. Tclem (real glad the Light came and found you, by the way) because it let them to other drugs, but I know of even more that still 'partake' to this day that are decent people and functioning members of society. (I was raised by flower children, you see) Its just how they unwind at the end of the week.
> 
> Just my two cents about the matter. Now to go stare at my curly Walnut boards and dream of what they'll become; that's my stress relief valve.




CURLY walnut- Damn I better go count my boards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well said Sean.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Blueglass (Feb 12, 2014)

Ooooo curly walnut! I'll bet my dad would go crazy for that!


----------



## brown down (Feb 12, 2014)

MMmmmmmmmm curly walnut, I salivated a little thinking of that! haha

I too am glad you found the light! 
the theory that its a gateway drug should be thrown out the door! tobacco and alcohol yes, heck maybe even caffein could start a person off.
I am lucky not to have an addictive personality, ok i do have a woodworking and wood hoarding addiction that i can't seem to let go of. not to mention you guys aren't the best support group for it \
I would say that even if you don't partake with it, you still have a dog in the fight! It comes down to natural born rights! FREEDOM to make your own decisions without someone standing over your shoulder making sure you conformed to THEIR standards!
everyone has been spot on with their feelings about this subject, its touchy but lets be honest its right in our faces and well in our pockets!

this man put it into a perspective that I am not sure could have been put any other way!

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Kevin (Feb 12, 2014)

Tclem said:


> but why about the effects of the drugs.



Obesity and smoking are much more detrimental to society than drugs, and alcohol is more detrimental also. But society has not been conditioned by the thought-controllers to be too aggravated with them. If the Ministry of Propaganda ever starts demonizing fat people and finds a way to profit from them then society will slowly turn against them. You think that sounds fantastic? I assure you if government could figure out how to criminalize fat folks to profit from it , there would be fat prisons.



Tclem said:


> I guess I'm looking at things more in the morality side of it.



I know it's a overused catch phrase Tony but it is 100% true. No government, organization, nor even an individual (think parent/child relationship) can force someone, or prevent someone, from forming their own moral and ethical code. It has never been a successful undertaking nor will it ever be. The best chance for helping adults to be responsible, productive human beings is for parents to do their jobs when those adults are kids. But sometimes even the best parental guidance often fails to do that.

When you see this whole political circus being paraded in front of you just remember that it's 100% false reality. The purpose of politicians is not to pass laws that help society by controlling our actions; the purpose of political power is to control our thoughts and actions so the political political apparatchik can retain its power and control. They do this with money and power and all these other issues are tools toward that end. Sure there are some "sincere politicians" who start out with noble ideals but on the whole, it truly does boil down to power struggles within power struggles at all levels and even within the circles of power themselves.

If someone want to snort coke they're going to do it. The fact that it's illegal is the MUCH bigger problem than them doing it. I don't blame your dad and you for your perception of the criminal side of society because he has been tasked with an extremely difficult, thankless, no-win job by a government that does everything it can to maintain this illogical paradigm. The government is not here to help you or your dad, but to use us often against each other toward their end. Those are the facts at least in my realm of observation.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Tclem (Feb 12, 2014)

Kevin said:


> Obesity and smoking are much more detrimental to society than drugs, and alcohol is more detrimental also. But society has not been conditioned by the thought-controllers to be too aggravated with them. If the Ministry of Propaganda ever starts demonizing fat people and finds a way to profit from them then society will slowly turn against them. You think that sounds fantastic? I assure you if government could figure out how to criminalize fat folks to profit from it , there would be fat prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And I agree with you Kevin about the government. I better go on a dirt before they get me. ( the fat person )


----------



## Kevin (Feb 12, 2014)

Hey Tony I'm packing ~35 extra pounds of dead weight myself. Fattest I ever been. It's equivalent to an extra 60+ pounds on a big man - I am technically obese and I feel that way. I don't exclude myself from the criticism. My goal is to drop enough weight to get off this damn insulin - it's a vicious cycle. If I could just quit smoking all this ganja twice an hour so I don't have the munchies all the time I might be able to drop it. (kidding!)

Reactions: Funny 1


----------

