# any hydraulic pump/motor guru's out there?



## jimmyjames

I was seeing if we have any hydraulic experts out there. I'm trying to figure out if its feesible to run a band mill blade with a hydraulic motor, I have a tractor that is 33 horsepower diesel and the pump does 7.2 gallons per [email protected] With that said I need a a hydraulic motor that has 1.5 cubic inch per revolution to get the output of the hydraulic motor to 1050rpm to make my blade speed 5000 feet per minute with an 18.75" band mill wheel. I was talking to a guy on the phone yesterday and he said the output of a white brand 1.5cu in hyd motor is 360 inch pounds which converts to about 26-27 foot pounds. Also he said the horsepower is only going to be like 5hp output from the small motor......... does that sound correct? Am I peeing into the wind thinking this motor will power a band mill blade? I looked at a few band mill builds on the net and both of them used junkyard hydraulic motors which had to be stepped up so in theory you would lose power, in the videos I watched of them it didn't seem like they had any problems blasting through logs but then again I don't know what they're hydraulic pump is pumping or how much power the hydraulic pump motor has either.


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## Dane Fuller

I'm not a guru but I'd bet it would work. Why not run it off the tractor's PTO though? I know that would be an easier problem to solve. All you'd need is a few U-joints, drive lines, and a gear box. If you really want to go the hydraulic route, you could also run a pump off the PTO. That would save extra wear and tear on the tractor's hydro system and you could use it to run the controls.


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## jimmyjames

I just got off the phone with white hydraulics, they advised me on which pump to use, seems our tractor runs 2500psi and not 2100, not sure where I heard 2100 but I did confirm the 2500psi from the john Deere dealer. At 2500 psi and 7.2 GPM and wanting an output speed of 1050rpm they told me to use the1.5 cubic inch motor with a higher pressure rating, with the higher pressure rating the rated torque output of the motor is 37 continuous and 41 intermittent torque, which isn't too shabby, I looked around at Kohler gas engine rated torque and actual torque numbers, a 26hp Kohler courage is rated at 41 foot pounds of torque but actual torque is 30.6 tested by 3rd party, with that said I will have as much or more torque than that given motor and I have seen first hand that a 26hp Kohler motor on a ban mill will rip through big logs with no problems, not as fast as a giant diesel powered woodmizer but I think it'll do! Since I have been home sick for days I've been drawing on my cad program trying to fill my sick time and I almost have the monster band mill completely designed down to every nut, bolt, sprocket, keyway, component etc to build, including part numbers, prices and where to order the parts, the 3d assembly model file of the band mill is so big I had to use an external hard drive so the computer didn't crash....... I will post up some pictures tomorrow, its probably my best design yet.....


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## jimmyjames

Dane Fuller said:


> I'm not a guru but I'd bet it would work. Why not run it off the tractor's PTO though? I know that would be an easier problem to solve. All you'd need is a few U-joints, drive lines, and a gear box. If you really want to go the hydraulic route, you could also run a pump off the PTO. That would save extra wear and tear on the tractor's hydro system and you could use it to run the controls.



A few moths back I considered this option, but going that route the saw head would have to be fixed and the bed would have to travel back and fourth with at least 24' of travel making the whole sawmill 50' long or better, and considering the biggest expense is buying the heavy gauge iron for the bed it would have increased the cost dramatically, especially since I want to run big 48" logs on it the bed would have to support a 5000lb load riding back and fourth on it and staying level in the process, plus the wheels that the bed would have to ride on would have to be really stout with some wicked bearings to last through that abuse, would almost have to use train tracks


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## jimmyjames

heres a couple pictures for you photo junkies, these pictures are still missing quite a few components, some idler sprocets, the hydraulic motors, some spacers, the bandwheel shafts, and a bunch of fasteners.

http://i178.Rule #2/albums/w249/jimmyjames1981/bandmillhydraulic1_zpsafd866a9.png

http://i178.Rule #2/albums/w249/jimmyjames1981/bandmillhydraulic2_zps62889329.png

http://i178.Rule #2/albums/w249/jimmyjames1981/bandmillhydraulic3_zps172d8aeb.png

tracking/tensioning guide side of the mill, the other side just has track adjustement
http://i178.Rule #2/albums/w249/jimmyjames1981/bandmillhydraulic4_zps431063d9.png


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## jimmyjames

and frame for the gantry is built using 4"x2"x .188" wall rectangle tube, theres 48" between the bandwheels, so in theory i could whittle down a 67.8" diameter log to fit between the bandwheels, of course i will never see a log that gigantic, if i did id have to hire a farmer with a giant loader to move it........... considering it would weigh 10,000+ lbs. Mostly this saw will see logs 30" and under, not that often you find free 48" diameter logs that are still in useable lengths.... I still need to design the blade guides as well but i allready have most of the components drawn for it


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## Brink

Cool idea! 

Couple things, 360 in/lbs =30 ft/lbs 

7.2 gpm will spin your 1.5 cu in motor at 1114 rpm

At max pressure, the pump will produce around 6.5 gpm

(psi x gpm) / 1714 = hp

So, 2500 x 6.5 = 16250. 16250/1714= 9.5 hp ( actually 9.481 hp) 

You'll end up with 9.5 hp on a motor with a no-load speed of 1114 rpm. 

Will that be enough to power the mill?


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## Kevin

Nice figuring Brink. I couldn't have done it without burying my nose in dusty books for an hour. At least.



Brink said:


> You'll end up with 9.5 hp on a motor with a no-load speed of 1114 rpm.
> 
> Will that be enough to power the mill?



Not in my opinion. Especially not for the width capacity he has.


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## jimmyjames

How about this instead? And just run a the blade directly and then run a hydraulic pump offnofnit to run everything else?

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?index=0&sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=111069153411


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## Kevin

Yes. Diesel would be better but the first band mill I had was a Norwood LM 2000 with a Briggs 23HP and it did all I wanted. But remember once you start getting past the mid 30's in inches the HP needs increase nearly exponentially with a band mill, so if you plan to use all that width ever, you might consider running your hydraulics off a smaller separate engine.


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## Mike Jones

My few experiences with hydraulic motors taught me to be especially mindful of the heat generated by constant running under power. I had to build a bigger fluid reservoir, extend the filler pipe, (hot fluid expanded and burped out) and put cooling fins on the tank.


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## jimmyjames

OK, I solved the problem, just bought a 28hp Kubota diesel out of a destroyed utv from a small engine repair shop, the paper for it says 28.6hp and 50.9 lb ft of torque, the utv had 186 hours on it, complete with radiator, just hook up a power ground and an ignition switch, picked it up for a hefty $200.... he has brand new verticle shaft 24hp kohlers for $375 too, has piles of engines, I'm guessing the motor weighed about 225 pounds, going to have to strengthen the carriage!


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## Kevin

jimmyjames said:


> OK, I solved the problem, just bought a 28hp Kubota diesel ...$200 ...



Huzzah! 



For that kind of money you can afford to make a mistake. But I bet you didn't. GREAT grab man I would buy Kubota's like that with both hands all day long at that price. My sawmill has a 42HP Kubota turbo diesel but it's overkill. Kubota and Yanmar (my skid steer is a 42HP yanmar) are both great engines. Parts are plentiful, the design is bulletproof, and they just keep on going like the pink bunny. 

You done good Jim.


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## jimmyjames

Kevin said:


> jimmyjames said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I solved the problem, just bought a 28hp Kubota diesel ...$200 ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huzzah!
> 
> 
> 
> For that kind of money you can afford to make a mistake. But I bet you didn't. GREAT grab man I would buy Kubota's like that with both hands all day long at that price. My sawmill has a 42HP Kubota turbo diesel but it's overkill. Kubota and Yanmar (my skid steer is a 42HP yanmar) are both great engines. Parts are plentiful, the design is bulletproof, and they just keep on going like the pink bunny.
> 
> You done good Jim.
Click to expand...


Yep it was weird, I was talking to my coworker about my band mill idea/project and was talking about needing an engine, he said hmmmmm, let me make a phone call and see if my brother still wants to sell his diesel, I said WHAT? A diesel? Yep sure enough he made a phone call and on my lunch break we went over there and picked it up, seems like everything the guy has is fire sale prices, I'm going to stop back again tomorrow and ask him if he has any electric clutches , I'm betting he does, his yard had probably 300 riding mowers parked in it being salvaged or growing old.... just on 1 wall of his building there's probably 5000 lawnmower wheels and tires, there's dirt bikes, 4 wheelers, motorcycles, every 2 stroke thing ever made, old half torn apart Stihl chainsaws laying around....... I was like a kid in a candy store but I only had 10 minutes there so I didn't have time to scrounge, in the morning I will have to unload the engine and do some measuring to find out the output shaft size so I can find an electric clutch to work on it, hopefully one of the clutches from one of the bigger mowers will have enough holding strength for this beast of an engine!


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## Kevin

I'm interested in any pro level chainsaws Jim. If you see something and you don't want it please let me know. Especially if you see any 650 magnum 088, 066, 044, 070, 090 etc even the later models like 880 660 460 461 440 441 etc. and even if torn apart.


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## jimmyjames

I will let you know, bad news on that engine, blocks cracked from top to bottom, I'm guessing it happen in the utv rollover, just returned it, located 2000 series 4 cylinder Kubota for $400 out of a wrecked reefer trailer at thermo king, going to check it out here in a little bit


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## jimmyjames

Its shame to, the motor was shiney like new :(


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## Kevin

Nice that he took it back. I guess he didn't say "as is". Must be an honest guy. I like honest.


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## jimmyjames

Yep he's a descent guy and will do business with him in the future, the replacement engine I just bought is a Kubota v2203-di out of a thermo king reefer trailer, a little over 5000 hours, these motors run for 40,000 hours before maintainence , $400 and he has probably 300 more of them. Built in 2006, picking it up Monday with my trailer, way to heavy to put in the back of the SUV.... it has a whopping 40.6 horsepower and 107 ft lbs of torque , 4 cylinder! 

http://i178.Rule #2/albums/w249/jimmyjames1981/IMG_20130510_115249_508_zps6530ebfa.jpg

http://i178.Rule #2/albums/w249/jimmyjames1981/IMG_20130510_115259_031_zps33e9ca92.jpg


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## jimmyjames

The hour meter on the reefer unit itself that is came out of shows 5,874 hours, the top of the unit was smashed from what I'm guessing is a semi driver tried to fit a tall trailer in a short opening...


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## jimmyjames

Kevin said:


> I'm interested in any pro level chainsaws Jim. If you see something and you don't want it please let me know. Especially if you see any 650 magnum 088, 066, 044, 070, 090 etc even the later models like 880 660 460 461 440 441 etc. and even if torn apart.



I will see what he has for Stihl saws, I do know there was a 044 sitting on the mess of a table right by the door


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## jimmyjames

Hey if anybody needs to power a sawmill with a cheap diesel just contact your local thermo king dealer, with the new laws hundreds of thousands of thermo king reefer units are being decommissioned since they must be manufactured after a certain date, they also have 2 and 3 cylinder engines and all are diesel, they have Perkins, Volvo, yanmar , and a few others, they even have the 2203 Kubotas in a turbo version but are more money, but I don't think anybody here would ever need that much power, I think they are like 50+ HP and 140+ torque........


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## woodtickgreg

I used to haul reefer for a living and Those motors ran continuously with narray a hiccup. It got to the point that If I didn't have the engine running I couldn't sleep. If the motor cut off when I was sleeping because it reached it's temp I would sit straight up in a panic and worry about the load of food or ice cream I was hauling. Awesome durable engines for the long haul, excuse the pun.


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## jimmyjames

woodtickgreg said:


> I used to haul reefer for a living and Those motors ran continuously with narray a hiccup. It got to the point that If I didn't have the engine running I couldn't sleep. If the motor cut off when I was sleeping because it reached it's temp I would sit straight up in a panic and worry about the load of food or ice cream I was hauling. Awesome durable engines for the long haul, excuse the pun.



They must last forever, the guy showed me a trailer in the parking lot and showed me the hour meter and it read 71,000 hours , it was a 2203 kubota in it to, even if the engine only lasted 1000 hours, for the price I can just go get 4 more of them for cheaper then 1 30 horse Kohler.........

Plus you see reefers on trains and they must really trust these engines to have a reefer full of expensive frozen goods to travel across the continent.....


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## jimmyjames

Kevin said:


> I'm interested in any pro level chainsaws Jim. If you see something and you don't want it please let me know. Especially if you see any 650 magnum 088, 066, 044, 070, 090 etc even the later models like 880 660 460 461 440 441 etc. and even if torn apart.



The only complete running Stihl he has right now is an 056av for $375, he sells quite a bit of his saws to tree services and that's the only complete saw he has , he said in a few weeks he will be building more, he also said he probably has acquired 200 of them and just needs to work on them , he said he doesn't get any 088's and rarely any 066's, around here there isn't any logging that takes place and you don't see big saws like that often. He does have a pair of farm boss's as well but those aren't pro saws. From my experience the only big saws I have seen around here are either at the St IHL dealer on the shelf or at the walnut log company, biggest saw I have seen a tree service use was a 441...... oh I take that back, my saw I guy has a 660 with a 16" bar , he used that when he had a chainsaw mill and when he ordered the saw he bought it with the smallest possible bar to save money, and also there's a local guy with an Alaskan mill and an 880, like I said around here they are all small and usually in the 2xx St IHL models


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## Kevin

Cool. They don't have to be running, just any of the models listed. His prices seem to be quite fair. Don't spend any time looking just if you happen to notice one. Thanks for looking.


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## jimmyjames

Its no problem Kevin, I enjoy looking at his stuff, there's so much of it I could look through it for days, I could build a lot of contraptions with the things that he has.......


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## Cross Sawmill

jimmyjames said:


> I was seeing if we have any hydraulic experts out there. I'm trying to figure out if its feesible to run a band mill blade with a hydraulic motor, I have a tractor that is 33 horsepower diesel and the pump does 7.2 gallons per [email protected] With that said I need a a hydraulic motor that has 1.5 cubic inch per revolution to get the output of the hydraulic motor to 1050rpm to make my blade speed 5000 feet per minute with an 18.75" band mill wheel. I was talking to a guy on the phone yesterday and he said the output of a white brand 1.5cu in hyd motor is 360 inch pounds which converts to about 26-27 foot pounds. Also he said the horsepower is only going to be like 5hp output from the small motor......... does that sound correct? Am I peeing into the wind thinking this motor will power a band mill blade? I looked at a few band mill builds on the net and both of them used junkyard hydraulic motors which had to be stepped up so in theory you would lose power, in the videos I watched of them it didn't seem like they had any problems blasting through logs but then again I don't know what they're hydraulic pump is pumping or how much power the hydraulic pump motor has either.


 jimmyjames, I really like the fact that You Think about Ways to accomplish Challenges. One thing to Remember about ANY Hydraulic System is to make sure They have proper Pressure Relief (for over-pressure) . The "Crap" CAN "Go Off" like a Hand Grenade.


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## jimmyjames

Cross Sawmill said:


> jimmyjames said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was seeing if we have any hydraulic experts out there. I'm trying to figure out if its feesible to run a band mill blade with a hydraulic motor, I have a tractor that is 33 horsepower diesel and the pump does 7.2 gallons per [email protected] With that said I need a a hydraulic motor that has 1.5 cubic inch per revolution to get the output of the hydraulic motor to 1050rpm to make my blade speed 5000 feet per minute with an 18.75" band mill wheel. I was talking to a guy on the phone yesterday and he said the output of a white brand 1.5cu in hyd motor is 360 inch pounds which converts to about 26-27 foot pounds. Also he said the horsepower is only going to be like 5hp output from the small motor......... does that sound correct? Am I peeing into the wind thinking this motor will power a band mill blade? I looked at a few band mill builds on the net and both of them used junkyard hydraulic motors which had to be stepped up so in theory you would lose power, in the videos I watched of them it didn't seem like they had any problems blasting through logs but then again I don't know what they're hydraulic pump is pumping or how much power the hydraulic pump motor has either.
> 
> 
> 
> jimmyjames, I really like the fact that You Think about Ways to accomplish Challenges. One thing to Remember about ANY Hydraulic System is to make sure They have proper Pressure Relief (for over-pressure) . The "Crap" CAN "Go Off" like a Hand Grenade.
Click to expand...


Yep I figured that into the equation, all of my valves have individual adjustments for pressure bypass, I can set them from 500-3000 psi.

I loved building stuff ever since I was little, I always like challenging myself into doing things different ways


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## Cross Sawmill

Mike Jones said:


> My few experiences with hydraulic motors taught me to be especially mindful of the heat generated by constant running under power. I had to build a bigger fluid reservoir, extend the filler pipe, (hot fluid expanded and burped out) and put cooling fins on the tank.


 Mike,
That is a very good point. A person has to deal with"Heat Load" in a Hydraulic System. If You thought of it in Terms of Welders, it would have a "Duty Cycle". If You only want to run a little bit and let it cool down, that is one thing. If You want to run non-stop, You have to design for it.
A good source for information is 'HydraulicsSuperMarket.Com'
Steve


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## jimmyjames

Cross Sawmill said:


> Mike Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> My few experiences with hydraulic motors taught me to be especially mindful of the heat generated by constant running under power. I had to build a bigger fluid reservoir, extend the filler pipe, (hot fluid expanded and burped out) and put cooling fins on the tank.
> 
> 
> 
> Mike,
> That is a very good point. A person has to deal with"Heat Load" in a Hydraulic System. If You thought of it in Terms of Welders, it would have a "Duty Cycle". If You only want to run a little bit and let it cool down, that is one thing. If You want to run non-stop, You have to design for it.
> A good source for information is 'HydraulicsSuperMarket.Com'
> Steve
Click to expand...


I have a hydraulic oil cooler coil for it


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## NCWoodArt

I ran a hydraulic shop in Va for 13 years, let me know if you get to a point where you need some help. Sounds like you got it under control but I will point out a couple things some people never think of. The control valve you use will have a built in adjustable or preset relief valve, be sure you add a second relief set slightly higher as the fail safe valve. You will want an open center valve so you don't wreck the hydraulic motor when you go from turning the blade back to center. You will also need to decide if you want it spring to center or detented. Lots of other little tid bits about what size hoses, always be sure to put a shutoff valve on your hydraulic tank for the suction side so if you ever have to service the pump you can not have to drain whole tank to do so ( a lot of folks miss this step). Always either use a suction strainer in tank and or a return line filter. Got to keep that oil clean. It would not hurt to plumb in a tee somewhere on the pressure line & plug it, It makes a nice access point for checking your pressure later if you start having issues- knowing you have pressure & how much is first check. Always use fittings rated for high pressure no galvanized or black iron on pressure side. It is also nice to have some re-usable fittings around if you ever blow a line during a job as you will never be near a hydraulic shop when they fail. You need to make sure the size of your reservoir is matched to your pump otherwise you will overheat the oil & that causes lots of issues. Never over fill your system- when the oil gets heated up it expands so what may look low when cold will be blowing out when at operating temps. Tank should also be vented with a rain proof breather. Well that is enough for your to digest for now but I designed a lot of systems & built many custom portable Hyd. Power units over the years.

Bill


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## jimmyjames

Yep, I have 2 different style valves, I have 3 valves open center with motor spools and also the fitting for power beyond to go ton the 2nd set of valves that are open center with cylinder spools for the cylinders. I still have to get a bunch of fittings etc and I will add a main bypass on the main supply line from the pump, its a bypass valve correct that has a line that goes back to the tank?


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## Cross Sawmill

aerocustomsexotics said:


> I ran a hydraulic shop in Va for 13 years, let me know if you get to a point where you need some help. Sounds like you got it under control but I will point out a couple things some people never think of. The control valve you use will have a built in adjustable or preset relief valve, be sure you add a second relief set slightly higher as the fail safe valve. You will want an open center valve so you don't wreck the hydraulic motor when you go from turning the blade back to center. You will also need to decide if you want it spring to center or detented. Lots of other little tid bits about what size hoses, always be sure to put a shutoff valve on your hydraulic tank for the suction side so if you ever have to service the pump you can not have to drain whole tank to do so ( a lot of folks miss this step). Always either use a suction strainer in tank and or a return line filter. Got to keep that oil clean. It would not hurt to plumb in a tee somewhere on the pressure line & plug it, It makes a nice access point for checking your pressure later if you start having issues- knowing you have pressure & how much is first check. Always use fittings rated for high pressure no galvanized or black iron on pressure side. It is also nice to have some re-usable fittings around if you ever blow a line during a job as you will never be near a hydraulic shop when they fail. You need to make sure the size of your reservoir is matched to your pump otherwise you will overheat the oil & that causes lots of issues. Never over fill your system- when the oil gets heated up it expands so what may look low when cold will be blowing out when at operating temps. Tank should also be vented with a rain proof breather. Well that is enough for your to digest for now but I designed a lot of systems & built many custom portable Hyd. Power units over the years.
> 
> Bill


 Bill,
Control Valves Might or Might Not contain Pressure Relief Units. Anyone should learn to recognize what these things look like. I too have assembled several hydraulic systems over the years. They in fact can be lethal and We have the responsibility to inform if We discuss it at all. Open Center and Closed Center reference types of valves for different Pumps. I can not think of the valve You suggested but it is something like "Freewheel " and can be either an open center or closed center. BUT Your point about not "Shock Loading" the motor when You stop it is certainly valid.


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## Cross Sawmill

Cross Sawmill said:


> aerocustomsexotics said:
> 
> 
> 
> I ran a hydraulic shop in Va for 13 years, let me know if you get to a point where you need some help. Sounds like you got it under control but I will point out a couple things some people never think of. The control valve you use will have a built in adjustable or preset relief valve, be sure you add a second relief set slightly higher as the fail safe valve. You will want an open center valve so you don't wreck the hydraulic motor when you go from turning the blade back to center. You will also need to decide if you want it spring to center or detented. Lots of other little tid bits about what size hoses, always be sure to put a shutoff valve on your hydraulic tank for the suction side so if you ever have to service the pump you can not have to drain whole tank to do so ( a lot of folks miss this step). Always either use a suction strainer in tank and or a return line filter. Got to keep that oil clean. It would not hurt to plumb in a tee somewhere on the pressure line & plug it, It makes a nice access point for checking your pressure later if you start having issues- knowing you have pressure & how much is first check. Always use fittings rated for high pressure no galvanized or black iron on pressure side. It is also nice to have some re-usable fittings around if you ever blow a line during a job as you will never be near a hydraulic shop when they fail. You need to make sure the size of your reservoir is matched to your pump otherwise you will overheat the oil & that causes lots of issues. Never over fill your system- when the oil gets heated up it expands so what may look low when cold will be blowing out when at operating temps. Tank should also be vented with a rain proof breather. Well that is enough for your to digest for now but I designed a lot of systems & built many custom portable Hyd. Power units over the years.
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
> Bill,
> Control Valves Might or Might Not contain Pressure Relief Units. Anyone should learn to recognize what these things look like. I too have assembled several hydraulic systems over the years. They in fact can be lethal and We have the responsibility to inform if We discuss it at all. Open Center and Closed Center reference types of valves for different Pumps. I can not think of the valve You suggested but it is something like "Freewheel " and can be either an open center or closed center. BUT Your point about not "Shock Loading" the motor when You stop it is certainly valid.
Click to expand...

 Motor Spool; 10-4


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## NCWoodArt

jimmyjames said:


> Yep, I have 2 different style valves, I have 3 valves open center with motor spools and also the fitting for power beyond to go ton the 2nd set of valves that are open center with cylinder spools for the cylinders. I still have to get a bunch of fittings etc and I will add a main bypass on the main supply line from the pump, its a bypass valve correct that has a line that goes back to the tank?



When I said control valve should have preset or adjustable relief valve that was a "recommendation" of the type of valve to use-assuming it would need to be purchased new, always better if you have to buy a valve get one with built in relief protection. Motor spool was what I meant when said open center with float feature for motor control. But beings there was not a specific question I was just making some recommendations on things to be mindful of during the setup- design of the system.

Bill


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## Cross Sawmill

aerocustomsexotics said:


> jimmyjames said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, I have 2 different style valves, I have 3 valves open center with motor spools and also the fitting for power beyond to go ton the 2nd set of valves that are open center with cylinder spools for the cylinders. I still have to get a bunch of fittings etc and I will add a main bypass on the main supply line from the pump, its a bypass valve correct that has a line that goes back to the tank?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I said control valve should have preset or adjustable relief valve that was a "recommendation" of the type of valve to use-assuming it would need to be purchased new, always better if you have to buy a valve get one with built in relief protection. Motor spool was what I meant when said open center with float feature for motor control. But beings there was not a specific question I was just making some recommendations on things to be mindful of during the setup- design of the system.
> 
> Bill
Click to expand...

 Bill,
I believe that a hydraulic motor for a band-saw sawmill would need to generate at least 30 horsepower and the bandwheel would need to spin 500 to 1,000 rpm (according to diameter) . That is a "Helluva" hydraulic system!
??????????Steve


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## Cross Sawmill

Cross Sawmill said:


> aerocustomsexotics said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jimmyjames said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, I have 2 different style valves, I have 3 valves open center with motor spools and also the fitting for power beyond to go ton the 2nd set of valves that are open center with cylinder spools for the cylinders. I still have to get a bunch of fittings etc and I will add a main bypass on the main supply line from the pump, its a bypass valve correct that has a line that goes back to the tank?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I said control valve should have preset or adjustable relief valve that was a "recommendation" of the type of valve to use-assuming it would need to be purchased new, always better if you have to buy a valve get one with built in relief protection. Motor spool was what I meant when said open center with float feature for motor control. But beings there was not a specific question I was just making some recommendations on things to be mindful of during the setup- design of the system.
> 
> Bill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bill,
> I believe that a hydraulic motor for a band-saw sawmill would need to generate at least 30 horsepower and the bandwheel would need to spin 500 to 1,000 rpm (according to diameter) . That is a "Helluva" hydraulic system!
> ??????????Steve
Click to expand...

 Horsepower IN?? Gallons per Minute?????? Pressure???????? Line Length ??? Motor Speed??????? IF!!! something like this is going to work, ALL this AND other questions have to be addressed.


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## NCWoodArt

I did not go do any calculations on what pump or motor he needs as he has aleready spoken to White's tech rep on what size motor he would need based on the pump he plans to run. It would be fairly easy to calculate once there is a know requirement of torque & desired rpm. It may not be the mopst cost effective way to run a mill but it is feasible especially if he can procure the materials at less than retail cost & do all the plumbing himself. For what it is I would just go with gas or diesel powered engine for bandmill portion & maybe consider using hydraulic system just for lift cylinders & headstock travel.


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## Cross Sawmill

aerocustomsexotics said:


> I did not go do any calculations on what pump or motor he needs as he has aleready spoken to White's tech rep on what size motor he would need based on the pump he plans to run. It would be fairly easy to calculate once there is a know requirement of torque & desired rpm. It may not be the mopst cost effective way to run a mill but it is feasible especially if he can procure the materials at less than retail cost & do all the plumbing himself. For what it is I would just go with gas or diesel powered engine for bandmill portion & maybe consider using hydraulic system just for lift cylinders & headstock travel.


 Bill,
I would have to say I agree with You on "Direct Drive off Engine". Hydraulics are "Great" IF there is no other way to accomplish a job. I have considered powering a large band head with hydraulics. It can be done, but a person needs a budget AND a knowledge base. Steve
PS 5 hp ain't gonna "CUT IT" (pun)


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## jimmyjames

Cross Sawmill said:


> Cross Sawmill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aerocustomsexotics said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jimmyjames said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, I have 2 different style valves, I have 3 valves open center with motor spools and also the fitting for power beyond to go ton the 2nd set of valves that are open center with cylinder spools for the cylinders. I still have to get a bunch of fittings etc and I will add a main bypass on the main supply line from the pump, its a bypass valve correct that has a line that goes back to the tank?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I said control valve should have preset or adjustable relief valve that was a "recommendation" of the type of valve to use-assuming it would need to be purchased new, always better if you have to buy a valve get one with built in relief protection. Motor spool was what I meant when said open center with float feature for motor control. But beings there was not a specific question I was just making some recommendations on things to be mindful of during the setup- design of the system.
> 
> Bill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bill,
> I believe that a hydraulic motor for a band-saw sawmill would need to generate at least 30 horsepower and the bandwheel would need to spin 500 to 1,000 rpm (according to diameter) . That is a "Helluva" hydraulic system!
> ??????????Steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Horsepower IN?? Gallons per Minute?????? Pressure???????? Line Length ??? Motor Speed??????? IF!!! something like this is going to work, ALL this AND other questions have to be addressed.
Click to expand...


I'm going direct drive off of the engine, I'm going from the engine to a jackshaft which has the hydraulic pump on one end of the shaft and a clutch on the other, in the middle is the pulley for the belts from the engine and then belt from the clutch to the drive wheel pulley on the band wheel shaft. 

I decided against using hydraulics to run the band since it would take 100+HP to get a hydraulic motor to output 30+HP, the pump and motor would have been too big and too expensive and not worth it


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## Cross Sawmill

aerocustomsexotics said:


> I did not go do any calculations on what pump or motor he needs as he has aleready spoken to White's tech rep on what size motor he would need based on the pump he plans to run. It would be fairly easy to calculate once there is a know requirement of torque & desired rpm. It may not be the mopst cost effective way to run a mill but it is feasible especially if he can procure the materials at less than retail cost & do all the plumbing himself. For what it is I would just go with gas or diesel powered engine for bandmill portion & maybe consider using hydraulic system just for lift cylinders & headstock travel.



Bill,
It is not the "FALL" that Hurts it is the "Sudden Stop".


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## jimmyjames

im doing it like this, i havent drawn in the coupler from the shaft to the hydraulic pump and also havent drawn the clutch at the end of the shaft but you get the idea, all of this is already built i just need to assemble it.

http://i178.Rule #2/albums/w249/jimmyjames1981/jackshaft_zps6483ff84.png

http://i178.Rule #2/albums/w249/jimmyjames1981/jackshaft2_zpscd5c167f.png


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## Cross Sawmill

jimmyjames said:


> Cross Sawmill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cross Sawmill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aerocustomsexotics said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jimmyjames said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, I have 2 different style valves, I have 3 valves open center with motor spools and also the fitting for power beyond to go ton the 2nd set of valves that are open center with cylinder spools for the cylinders. I still have to get a bunch of fittings etc and I will add a main bypass on the main supply line from the pump, its a bypass valve correct that has a line that goes back to the tank?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I said control valve should have preset or adjustable relief valve that was a "recommendation" of the type of valve to use-assuming it would need to be purchased new, always better if you have to buy a valve get one with built in relief protection. Motor spool was what I meant when said open center with float feature for motor control. But beings there was not a specific question I was just making some recommendations on things to be mindful of during the setup- design of the system.
> 
> Bill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bill,
> I believe that a hydraulic motor for a band-saw sawmill would need to generate at least 30 horsepower and the bandwheel would need to spin 500 to 1,000 rpm (according to diameter) . That is a "Helluva" hydraulic system!
> ??????????Steve
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Horsepower IN?? Gallons per Minute?????? Pressure???????? Line Length ??? Motor Speed??????? IF!!! something like this is going to work, ALL this AND other questions have to be addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm going direct drive off of the engine, I'm going from the engine to a jackshaft which has the hydraulic pump on one end of the shaft and a clutch on the other, in the middle is the pulley for the belts from the engine and then belt from the clutch to the drive wheel pulley on the band wheel shaft.
> 
> I decided against using hydraulics to run the band since it would take 100+HP to get a hydraulic motor to output 30+HP, the pump and motor would have been too big and too expensive and not worth it
Click to expand...

 Jimmy and Bill, One thing that is around that would pull a big band saw is a skid steer with a "High Flow" system.


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