# MAKING TURNING TOOLS



## Karda (Nov 6, 2017)

hi, never posted here before but I am looking at knife making. To start I made some scrapers out of 1095 and a skew out of a file. Haven't been able to get my tools hard. i am not doing some thing right with the fire, using wood. question. I am putting the bevel on my skew. I am using a 30 degree angle but the bevel is very blunt. I have read that the bevel of skew should be about 1.5 time the thickness of the tool. the bevel I got was no more more than the thickness of the file I am making it from. What should I do. Thanks Mike


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## Strider (Nov 7, 2017)

Do you get the steel hot enough? Get it to non-magnetic and quench in warm oil. That should to the trick.


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## Lou Currier (Nov 7, 2017)

Use a magnet as it get red hot and when it doesn't stick to the metal, quench it. You will also want to temper it as well.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Strider (Nov 7, 2017)



Reactions: Like 1


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## Karda (Nov 7, 2017)

the steel is red and non magnetic yet when i file test it doesn't appear to be as hard as it should be. what would happen if I tempered anyway. I am making wood turning flat tools not gouges


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## wyowoodwrker (Nov 7, 2017)

Karda said:


> the steel is red and non magnetic yet when i file test it doesn't appear to be as hard as it should be. what would happen if I tempered anyway. I am making wood turning flat tools not gouges


May not be as high carbon steel as you think repurposing tools leave some unknown variables to the process. You could try an oil then water quench but that seriously increases the likelihood of it cracking. Other option you can try is a multiple quench. Heat to non magnetic quench in oil then repeat again.


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## Karda (Nov 7, 2017)

they have been quenched, twice they appear hard but the test file does not skate it bites in a little


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## Foot Patrol (Nov 8, 2017)

You may have some decarb on the knife which will bite a little. Keep using the file to cut through the decarb and you should hit hard steel.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Strider (Nov 8, 2017)

Yes, remove the top layer. If you have more stock of the steel repeat- but only in one go. Or use charcoal...that way you won't lose carbon.

The modern files, however, tend to be case hardened or surface hardened...practically useless. Unless you want to buy case hardening medium to add carbon. Easier to obtain more stock than do this, especially without furnaces. I used to make a few knives that would be completed and they failed the HT just because they're were surface hardened steel. Oh well...

Perhaps it is not 1095. Many times I've been told a certain steel is this, or that, but in reality it was neither. Even when buying from shops.


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## NeilYeag (Nov 8, 2017)

My 2 cents on this. I have found that you need to consult the literature on the steel and follow the hardening tempering procedures. But also I experiment as well. I don't use 1095 so much but have used it. Properly done this should get really hard 66RC. The books indicate oil quench. I read somewhere to do a really quick water quench (few seconds) and then to oil. I tried it and it worked fine, no cracks no warps and hardened properly. But you need to go to tempering right after hardening. For me 500F 2 hour cycle, repeated twice. Gives a finish about 59RC. 

Also I agree 100% with Loris I would stay away from files and buy steel that you know what it really is. For tools as you describe, I would just use O1, more forgiving on the HT and really makes excellent tools.


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## Karda (Nov 8, 2017)

sorry i was taling about 2 different things, the sew grind I asked about is a file and I have only annealed that. the finished tools are made of 1095 stock. I file tested the again and the file does bite a little I file the end of another file there is no dout the heat treated tools are not as hard as they should be. would they be hard enough to temper. they are wood turning scrapers. also they have already been cleaned of surface debris


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## Strider (Nov 9, 2017)

If it is 1095, from the stock you did your blank...there is high chance you either had too low temperature, or you lost too much time before the quench. 10xx steel series are very forgiving due to small amount of alloying elements. Or...you just don't have 1095. Try again! :)


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## Karda (Nov 9, 2017)

i have 1095 thats what I ordered and the billit was marked 1095, I took it out of the fire into the oil, it was non magnetic i think maybe it wasn't hot enough . Iyts moot I can't use the forge now anyway, bad weather


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## Strider (Nov 10, 2017)

All it takes is listed in the video above...a pile of charcoal and some oxygen. Comes from Walter, so it's not bogus!

I have used a small clay pot on my first few knives and a pipe to blow in. Enough heat to get the temperature to yellow hot, more than enough for HT. But...all though I quenched several times, the steel got nowhere near what should be considered hardened. Only after testing the steel years after on my college, and actual chemical composition did I find out it barely has any carbon to be called steel. 

Nevertheless, I still made two knives out of them and they work flawlessly. Bear in mind, it was Iron age for a long time, not Steel age, and they hacked themselves to pieces for millennias without trouble.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Karda (Nov 10, 2017)

I know what you are saying, it not that complicated if they did it 2000 years ago I should be able too. I think I will temper them and see what happens. Can't do any more out side and I don't have a propane forge. Gotta look into making one.


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## Strider (Nov 11, 2017)

Coal is more than enough, cheaper and you can make it yourself. It adds carbon, too (that's how steel came to be). Propane is more dangerous, expensive, and does thing too fast sometimes. It can add crap to the steel. But it gets the job completely done. I reckon most use it here. 

Tempering? It will not do anything significant, only make it a bit softer and more tough. If hardnening isn't good, neither will be tempering. They depend on each other.

Get yourself a hardness test files- they range from 50-over 60 hrc. Cheap and useful.


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## Karda (Nov 11, 2017)

the reason I want to go prpane is the weather, it is getting wintery here and where I live its to windy I wont temper until i get a good quench thats for the help


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## Strider (Nov 12, 2017)

No problem, glad I can contribute. 

Yes, yes, it sounds like I am contra-propane, but not at all! It has it advantages and one of them, most important is even heath all the time, if you get even distribution within the furnace. 

Some steels, highly alloyed will behave totally different after tempering. You can get them as soft as pith after quench but very hard after 60o F tempering. Different carbides form in those alloys in different temperatures. But that is so complex I have nothing to offer on it. Only high carbon, low alloyed.


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## milkbaby (Nov 12, 2017)

Don't bother tempering unhardened 1095, nothing will happen except it getting softer.

When you heat treat in your forge without a reducing environment, carbon migrates to the surface and oxidizes, which is the black forge scale you see, and leaves a thin decarburized layer underneath which is soft from the carbon loss. So to test hardness, you need to grind past the scale AND the decarb layer to hit hardened steel. It's not usually a lot maybe 0.001 to 0.002 inches thick?

If the steel under the decarb is still soft, then your likely issue is that your quench isn't fast enough. 1095 should use a relatively fast quenchant. You want to cool from the austenitizing temperature down to martensite formation start temperature fast enough otherwise you get soft pearlite forming.

When you heat treat, you actually want to heat until you see decalescence where a shadow will move across the steel due to the phase transition. That temperature is a little higher than when the steel goes non-magnetic but not by much which is why so many people use the magnet. I HT at night to make seeing the colors easier but still rarely catch it and just guesstimate "1/2 to 1 shade brighter" than nonmagnetic. Also, just because it's non-magnetic doesn't mean it's still in the austenite form, steel will actually stay non-magnetic as it passes below the temperature that initially made it go non-magnetic, but since it's not austenite anymore, you won't get the hardening you want because that is dependant on cooling austenite fast enough to form martensite. You could be quenching a blade that already cooled off too much, even though it's still non-magnetic.

Reactions: Great Post 1


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