# New Milestone reached this morning



## kweinert (Jul 15, 2012)

I just launched my first bowl.

For some reason I'm having a difficult time getting this one centered. 

It's just enough larger than the first one that I can't use the Cole jaws, not even as a solid platform to push against.

RBaccus and I had a conversation where he told me about a technique he uses, but either I'm slow on the uptake or he has a larger lathe than I do. The best I can do is a 7/8 dowel to extend from the chuck and I can't get that centered by itself, let alone with a bowl on it.

Oh, both the bowl and I are fine. The glue block needs to be cleaned up a little and my shoulder might end up with a small bruise but those are pretty minor conditions.

Heart rate went up but I don't need to change my pants so all is good here :) It was a pretty good surprise though and it all happened pretty quickly.

Hope you all's days are going better. Back out to the shop for me.

Ken


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## arkie (Jul 15, 2012)

kweinert said:


> I just launched my first bowl.
> 
> For some reason I'm having a difficult time getting this one centered.
> 
> ...



Are you using the cole jaws to finish the bottom? That's what they are generally used for. The glue block should be held in a chuck, or by screws attached to a faceplate. I may not understand what you are trying to do here.

I often use a smaller bowl held in the chuck, fitting the larger bowl over it with the tailstock holding the spigot (or glue block) centered, I turn all but a think column off, sanding and finishing, then remove the column off lathe with a chisel or gouge.


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## kweinert (Jul 15, 2012)

arkie said:


> kweinert said:
> 
> 
> > I just launched my first bowl.
> ...



That was the intent - to finish the outside first, then the inside. This is a laminated bowl. It's all glued up with a glue block on the bottom. The intent was to turn the outside, including rounding the glue block, so that when I turned it around to do the inside the glue block could be used either in the chuck or with a screw chuck. 

I have a Jet 1014 lathe and the bowl just fits - which means the Cole jaws are just a bit smaller than the inside of the bowl. Maybe I just need to cut a larger plate to put the top of the bowl against.

All sorts of adventures ensue when you push the limits of your knowledge and experience :)

Thanks for the reply.

Ken


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## DKMD (Jul 15, 2012)

I'm not sure I follow you, but I'll tell you how I turn a bowl and maybe you'll find something useful in the rambling:

1. Round up a blank on the band saw
2. Mount between centers or using a screw chuck and then true everything up. I always use the tail stock when possible for safety... I also make use if the little hole it makes in the tenon when I get to step 8.
3. Turn the outside profile of the bowl on the tail stock side of the blank and prepare a tenon on that same side for holding the bowl in a scroll chuck
4. Reverse blank into a scroll chuck
5. True everything up again... It's pretty rare for a bowl to run dead true after placing it in the chuck.
6. Hollow out the inside of the blank stopping at 10% diameter for the wall thickness if I'm planning to dry and return. If I'm turning green to finish or using dry wood, I'll complete the inside shape and wall thickness.
7. Sand the inside and rim to final grit.
8. Flip the bowl around against a friction chuck. You can use a lot of things for this... I've used another smaller bowl or a scrap of wood that been turned to roughly match the inside curve of the bowl. You can put a folded paper towel or old mousepad between the bowl and scrap to keep from marring the inside surface of your bowl. Bring up the tail stock and re-engage the little dimple in the tenon (or glue block)from step #2. Sometime you have to adjust things a bit to get it running true... Most of the time, close enough is good enough.
9. Blend the bottom outside curve of the bowl into the foot shape you're after, and turn down the tenon to a small nub that's still engaged with the tailstock.
10. Sand the outside of the bowl to final grit.
11. Remove the bowl from the lathe, and pare off the small nubbin with a sharp chisel then hand sand the very bottom of the bowl.
12. Sign it, finish it, and give it away to make room for another.

For the record, step #8 can be done a number of ways... Jam chuck, friction chuck, cole jaws, vacuum chuck, long worth chuck, donut chuck, etc. The friction chuck is the cheapest, fastest way for me, but to each his/her own.

Let me know if you have any questions.


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## dean jordan (Jul 15, 2012)

Hi there. It sounds as if you are trying to rough out the outside and glue block of your blank. This is not what the cole jaws are for. David's response is right on. The only thing I would add is a saftey feature I use. Instead of a pin or screw chuck I use a. 1in spur drive on the headstock side. But first I drill a central hole in my block 1in diameter and at least 1in deep. This recess for the spur makes it very difficult for it to come off the lathe especially large ar unbalanced blanks. I always use the tail rest with a 60 degree cone point and 1 drill a matching hole in the bottom af the blank or waste block again at least 1/2 in deep. Most things that fly off the lathe in my experience are between centers because there is usually not much holding them on. A spur drive only goes a little way into the wood and the same for the cone at the tail stock. The drilled holes make it easier the recenter everything when you go to the chuck or faceplate.
I know this seems pretty basic but saftey should always be in our minds. A bowl blank can be heavy enough to do considerable damage even with a face shield


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## kweinert (Jul 15, 2012)

OK, let me show you why I was trying to use the Cole jaws as I was. I'm trying something a bit different (but similar) now.

To start with, I'm not starting a bowl with a solid block of wood.

[attachment=7829]

And the bowl is already hollow on the inside. It's a laminated bowl so there isn't anywhere to put the screw chuck when turning the outside. Essentially I was attempting to 'trap' the bowl between the tailstock and the cole jaws, with the cole jaws just being a flat surface to put the face of the bowl against. The friction chuck idea.

I now have a solid piece of plywood to put the face against - but I'm still having issues with getting it centered.

I'm just off somewhere - perhaps in the glue up and this is a lost cause. I haven't yet made the inside larger than the outside so there's still hope. :)

The first one wasn't this difficult, although it did have it's own issues.

This is just me learning, perhaps stepping beyond where I should be at this stage, but that's one way to learn.

Thanks for all your advice and feedback.

Ken


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## DKMD (Jul 15, 2012)

Ken, did you ever look into those Bob Hamilton videos on you tube? I think he calls the project 'A bowl from a board'. I remember it being a good demo, but I can't recall how he dealt with getting the faceplate/chuck centered. I'd be tempted to put my glue block in the chuck and turn it to the size of the smallest ring then glue it in place... Might not be perfect, but it should be in the neighborhood. I've never actually done one of those bowls, so hopefully somebody with some actual experience will weigh in.


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## Ralph Muhs (Jul 15, 2012)

kweinert said:


> OK, let me show you why I was trying to use the Cole jaws as I was. I'm trying something a bit different (but similar) now.
> 
> To start with, I'm not starting a bowl with a solid block of wood.
> 
> ...


Is that some of the walnut I sent to you?


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## kweinert (Jul 15, 2012)

Ralph Muhs said:


> Is that some of the walnut I sent to you?



Yes it is.


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## kweinert (Jul 15, 2012)

DKMD said:


> Ken, did you ever look into those Bob Hamilton videos on you tube? I think he calls the project 'A bowl from a board'. I remember it being a good demo, but I can't recall how he dealt with getting the faceplate/chuck centered. I'd be tempted to put my glue block in the chuck and turn it to the size of the smallest ring then glue it in place... Might not be perfect, but it should be in the neighborhood. I've never actually done one of those bowls, so hopefully somebody with some actual experience will weigh in.



I haven't yet, but I do plan on it. Thanks for the pointer to them.


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## dean jordan (Jul 15, 2012)

dean jordan said:


> Hi there. It sounds as if you are trying to rough out the outside and glue block of your blank. This is not what the cole jaws are for. David's response is right on. The only thing I would add is a saftey feature I use. Instead of a pin or screw chuck I use a. 1in spur drive on the headstock side. But first I drill a central hole in my block 1in diameter and at least 1in deep. This recess for the spur makes it very difficult for it to come off the lathe especially large ar unbalanced blanks. I always use the tail rest with a 60 degree cone point and 1 drill a matching hole in the bottom af the blank or waste block again at least 1/2 in deep. Most things that fly off the lathe in my experience are between centers because there is usually not much holding them on. A spur drive only goes a little way into the wood and the same for the cone at the tail stock. The drilled holes make it easier the recenter everything when you go to the chuck or faceplate.
> I know this seems pretty basic but saftey should always be in our minds. A bowl blank can be heavy enough to do considerable damage even with a face shield


 OK now I see what youre doing. When I turn stacked rings I make a stout mdf or plywood face plate that is just slightly smaller than the inside diameter of the top ring. this sets inside and centers your blank at the top. I usually have a bevel on the faceplate close to that of the bowl. Usually 45 degrees. This shouldnt come off. These are fun to make and I have made the inside bigger than the outside a few times. I get greedy and want the most rings possible.
Michal Mode has a technique where he cuts his rings on the lathe which avoids gluing halfs together and the rings are perfectly concentric and round.

Dean


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## Ralph Muhs (Jul 16, 2012)

kweinert said:


> Ralph Muhs said:
> 
> 
> > Is that some of the walnut I sent to you?
> ...


Let me know if you want more. I have some amazing maple now.


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## Kevin (Jul 16, 2012)

Ralph Muhs said:


> Let me know if you want more. I have some amazing maple now.



Start a thread showing pics of your maple. It'll sell if you show it.


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## kweinert (Jul 16, 2012)

dean jordan said:


> dean jordan said:
> 
> 
> > Hi there. It sounds as if you are trying to rough out the outside and glue block of your blank. This is not what the cole jaws are for. David's response is right on. The only thing I would add is a saftey feature I use. Instead of a pin or screw chuck I use a. 1in spur drive on the headstock side. But first I drill a central hole in my block 1in diameter and at least 1in deep. This recess for the spur makes it very difficult for it to come off the lathe especially large ar unbalanced blanks. I always use the tail rest with a 60 degree cone point and 1 drill a matching hole in the bottom af the blank or waste block again at least 1/2 in deep. Most things that fly off the lathe in my experience are between centers because there is usually not much holding them on. A spur drive only goes a little way into the wood and the same for the cone at the tail stock. The drilled holes make it easier the recenter everything when you go to the chuck or faceplate.
> ...



Yes, but he uses a pattern makers lathe for that. To be honest, I'm not sure what the different is between a regular lathe and one of those.

I cut some plywood disks for the top end, but I made them larger. I'll go cut one down a bit (or just bevel the edge) so it fits inside. That sounds like a better idea to me.

Thanks again for your input. It's interesting how the simple things just don't occur to me.


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## kweinert (Jul 16, 2012)

rbaccus said:


> DKMD said:
> 
> 
> > Ken, did you ever look into those Bob Hamilton videos on you tube? I think he calls the project 'A bowl from a board'. I remember it being a good demo, but I can't recall how he dealt with getting the faceplate/chuck centered. I'd be tempted to put my glue block in the chuck and turn it to the size of the smallest ring then glue it in place... Might not be perfect, but it should be in the neighborhood. I've never actually done one of those bowls, so hopefully somebody with some actual experience will weigh in.
> ...



Sorry, I'm just not making the connection here - PW?

Thanks.


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## Kevin (Jul 16, 2012)

kweinert said:


> Sorry, I'm just not making the connection here - PW?
> 
> Thanks.



PlyWood. 

It's a Cajun thing. Yeah. 

:silly:


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## dean jordan (Jul 16, 2012)

Its great to have i site like this that you can get so many ways of doing something that you can pick and choose wat works best for you.
On cutting rings on the lathe I just use a 1/16. parting tool with the board against a faceplate. IT would be harder with 8/4 or thicker wood then I would go to the bndsaw, but my bandsaw rings are never as nice as turned rings and returning.
is easier
Good luck
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## kweinert (Jul 16, 2012)

Kevin said:


> kweinert said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, I'm just not making the connection here - PW?
> ...



So now I feel dumb.

Thanks for elucidating for my poor, tired brain 

:lolol:


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## dean jordan (Jul 17, 2012)

kweinert said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> > kweinert said:
> ...


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## kweinert (Jul 18, 2012)

OK, so after a couple of days of feeling like crap and not getting out to the shop and then having to rehang a shelf, I got back to the laminated bowl.

I cut down the PW disk and set the angle on the edge to about what the angle is on the bowl. I didn't get the camera out and get a picture of that, but here it is mounted:

[attachment=7943]

I'll update my blog with the new progress, but since I don't have time right this second I'll put up a quick pic of the outside of the bowl with the first rough sanding done:

[attachment=7944]

Thanks to all of you for the suggestions I got. Hopefully when I turn the bowl around it's pretty close and I'll get a completed bowl out of it yet.

Ken


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## Ralph Muhs (Jul 20, 2012)

kweinert said:


> OK, so after a couple of days of feeling like crap and not getting out to the shop and then having to rehang a shelf, I got back to the laminated bowl.
> 
> I cut down the PW disk and set the angle on the edge to about what the angle is on the bowl. I didn't get the camera out and get a picture of that, but here it is mounted:
> 
> ...



Ken, I just got back from Illinois with another load of about 3000 bd. ft. of lumber. Almost all of it is walnut, some spectacular. When I get time I will post a picture of some of it.


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## kweinert (Jul 20, 2012)

The outside is done (well, still need to take off the glue block after the inside is finished.) You can read about over on my blog but here's one of the pictures:

[attachment=8001]

It's good to make progress.

Ken


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