# 2 Stage Vacuum Pumps?



## rhossack (Jun 21, 2013)

In reading across forums I keep seeing mentioned using two-stage vacuum pumps for stabilizing. I need to buy more stabilizing fluid and now we seem to have some more options as to availability of similar fluids.

Can someone tell me what the two-stage does that a single stage doesn't or what the advantage is? I have a two-stage but have never tried it.

Old pic of my system as it is nice and clean here ... 







I made a modification to stop the continuous misting of the oil put in the air by the HF pump.






My main Jar is a one gallon pickle jar that is the container but with some added features like a "Catch Jar" to keep any potential fluids from getting into the seals of the vacuum pump when I use Acetone + Plexi.

I do not put any of the stabilizing fluids in the Pickle jar. I put smaller jars in the pickle jar and that holds the fluid. 

I can pull a constant -28º at 2000+ feet where I live.






Spalted Chocolate Mango blank that was stabilized






An experiment stabilizing Red Fir Bark


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## Mike1950 (Jun 21, 2013)

RED fir bark pen is very nice.


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## Kevin (Jun 21, 2013)

I'm one of those guys that says whatever works for you is good. Some people would say your setup won't work even though you are showing proof. I have seen members use tongue in cheek critisizms of certain equipment, resins, processes, etc. that people use because it doesn't conform to what they have experienced (so it cannot possibly be good) or doesn't conform to their opinions of how it should be done. I just ignore them. They cannot learn from those of us that are actually doing things. Keep doing what you're doing and keep experimenting and keep an open mind. 

Your blanks look great but they cannot possibly be any good because you haven't spent $1000 to get them done by a "professional".

Reactions: Like 1


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## SDB777 (Jun 21, 2013)

I'm seeing that Red Fir bark as a inspiring piece! Tell me you made a bunch of these?!?!?!




Scott (who'd thunk it) B


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## rhossack (Jun 22, 2013)

Kevin said:


> Your blanks look great but they cannot possibly be any good because you haven't spent $1000 to get them done by a "professional".


I think you may be right ... :i_dunno:

Here's some really punky-spalted-amboyna that had stuff falling off when you touched it. 1 hour in the jar and baked @ 225 for 40 minutes


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## rhossack (Jun 22, 2013)

mja979 said:


> Very nice Pens.


thank you


> Is your stabilizer an available kit? Cost?


No kit here all homemade except the vacuum pump which ran me about $60 on sale some brass tube from ACE and a few feet of plastic water line from ACE. I've made three of these now for folks locally.

I do have one 'under-construction' that utilizes a small freezer compressor and I've used ones from refrigerators and those wine coolers. I usually find these by the roadside or at the dump or garage sales.



> Safe?



In my opinion absolutely. We're only talking 1.5 times atmospheric pressure.

Because of the altitude I'm at the best I can pull is -28hg on my gauge ... that converts to Amount : 28 inches of mercury (inHg) Equals : 13.8 pounds per sq. inch (psi)

The most that is possible to pull is -29.92 Hg (inches of mercury) or 14.696 psi (pounds per square inch) in a perfect situation.

If there was a problem with the glass jar we're talking implosion not explosion.


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## rhossack (Jun 22, 2013)

mja979 said:


> It look fairly easy to build...


About an hour or so once I had everything and all the parts


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## rhossack (Jun 22, 2013)

SDB777 said:


> I'm seeing that Red Fir bark as a inspiring piece! Tell me you made a bunch of these?!?!?!


It is the number one selling pen I make here to the locals. 

I also use the bark for most of my personal use Fly Rods for handles and reel seats.

It is also the hardest, most time consuming, work intensive pen I make.

Each pen will have anywhere from 6 to 8 or more bark rings in the body. And there is glue issues on top of this. TBIII is usually my go to glue but I've experienced a lot of failures of the glue joint. So I'm playing with a couple others that look very promising.

And Red Fir bark is so full of beetle tracks most of my time is consumed with filling, turning, filling and more.

The pen in the pic had at least three fills, turned back down and filled again before a smooth finish can be had.

I have a couple here ready to become pens and I was asked on another forum to do a 'how-to' so as soon as I can stand at the lathe without a crutch for support I'll give that a go.


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## rhossack (Jun 22, 2013)

Jon Kennedy said:


> The two stage pump will pull more vacuum, the extra 1.5" makes a diff, like Kevin said if you are happy with the results stick with it! nice looking blanks! you did a great job!!


Thanks Jon ... the extra -1.5" are we talking the time it takes to have the blanks totally saturated?

BTW ... went to your web site looking for prizes of the juice but I must be an idiot I can't find it.


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## shadetree_1 (Jun 23, 2013)

I make the blanks from the Ponderosa Pine bark, not nearly as stunning as your Fir bark but they still make a beautiful pen. The Ponderosa has the same fill problems as the fir but well worth it IMO. When we get out of the heat this summer and go to our home up north at 8,200 ft I'll gather me some Fir bark along with some Aspen burl and Gamble Oak burl and if I'm lucky maybe some Alligator Juniper Birdseye burl.


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## Kevin (Jun 23, 2013)

rhossack said:


> Thanks Jon ... the extra -1.5" are we talking the time it takes to have the blanks totally saturated?...



He's not referring to time, but to the degree of vacuum - he's saying a 2-stage pump will pull ~ 1.5" of mercury more than a single stage pump. A single stage can only pull down to ~28" of mercury.

("~" meaning "roughly")


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## rhossack (Jun 24, 2013)

Kevin said:


> He's not referring to time, but to the degree of vacuum - he's saying a 2-stage pump will pull ~ 1.5" of mercury more than a single stage pump. A single stage can only pull down to ~28" of mercury.


When I go to my friends to stabilize at a lower altitude the gauge is almost buried or close to -30hg

I'm confused (normal state for me) just not sure what the purpose of a 2 stage pump is.


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## rhossack (Jun 24, 2013)

The Ponderosa pine looks great. I have a friend who makes fly rod handles from the PB ...

He seems to find bark that has very little inclusions, beetle tracks or filling needed. I can't find bark like that. 






I miss AZ and all the nice Ironwood and cactus we used to gather ...


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## Kevin (Jun 24, 2013)

rhossack said:


> I'm confused (normal state for me) just not sure what the purpose of a 2 stage pump is.



A 2 stage will pull a deeper vacuum. Sort of like an 8 cylinder engine produces more torque than a 6, everything else being equal.


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