# Does anyone know of any woods like this? (Zitan)



## Damienw (Mar 9, 2014)

Hi there everyone, i've been trying to find a similar wood to this for a small table project in the future, but as yet i've had no success finding anything that's not either endangered and impossible for me to buy or import, or else extinct. 

I'm pretty sure its either pterocarpus santalinus/red sandal wood, dalbergia louvelli, or dalbergia maritima, so if anyone knows of any woods similar to those that are relatively readily available i'd very much appreciate your input. :) 

At the moment i'm thinking that perhaps katalox or padauk might give a similar look? but i'm not sure whether they'd give that deep purple/red colour or would age to it.


----------



## Fret440 (Mar 9, 2014)

Nice box. I think your thought about Katalox is good. I just did a bridge out of Katalox and it has a similar look. The Padauk I've used has stayed too red for the look of that box. Maybe also Kingwood (Dalbergia cearensis ) or Camatillo ( Dalbergia congestiflora )? Don't know exactly what you can or can't import over there. I own a guitar (great Australian luthier, Jim Redgate) with Brazillian Rosewood on it that has some similar colors, but BR is probably crazy expensive for what you would need for the box build. 

Jacob


----------



## phinds (Mar 9, 2014)

I agree w/ Jacob that katalox is probably your best bet. You'll never likely get purple from padauk, it normally goes from red to brown with no purple in between. I HAVE seen one piece (see the bowl at the top of my padauk page) that looked a bit purple but I suspect that was a fluke combination of finishing agent, lighting, and its age when I saw it.


----------



## Damienw (Apr 20, 2014)

I think i might have found a small piece of red sandalwood/pterocarpus santalinus at work a few days ago in the form of a small table leg in the scraps pile :)

Here's a pic of it, the top bit being where i sanded it down to bare wood and the bottom part being what i'm hoping is much darker oxidation rather than a stain.





I've also included a shot of what i know is red sandalwood borrowed from Holtey Classic Handplanes' website since its a good reference.






I'd love to hear other people's opinions on whether you think i'm on the right track or whether its something else :)

Reactions: EyeCandy! 1


----------



## DKMD (Apr 20, 2014)

It's a bit of a crapshoot trying to predict exactly how wood is going to look after time and exposure, but I've seen a number of rosewood species end up with similar coloring. Domestically, dalbergia sissoo might be an option. Cocobolo also goes to a dark purplish color with exposure.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


----------



## phinds (Apr 20, 2014)

I agree w/ David's comments about the color and I would add that yes, I think the lower part of that piece IS age patina (but David's right that you can't count on a different piece taking on that same color ... but it might get close). I still think katalox is your best bet, but it will likely be hard to find the right piece since it isn't all that common.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


----------



## Damienw (Apr 20, 2014)

DKMD said:


> It's a bit of a crapshoot trying to predict exactly how wood is going to look after time and exposure, but I've seen a number of rosewood species end up with similar coloring. Domestically, dalbergia sissoo might be an option. Cocobolo also goes to a dark purplish color with exposure.



It could be cocobolo, though the grain + chatoyance seem to be quite different to the cocobolo examples i've seen, and i dont think its D.Sissoo. 
My next guess after pterocarpus santalinus would be padauk at this point. Though perhaps only time might tell a bit more clearly which one it is, since as far as i'm aware P. Santalinus is the only one in the pterocarpus family that turns dark purplish black over time. 

At this point i'm more just trying to figure out whether this particular piece is one of the species historically known as zitan, more so than trying to find a more widely available possible substitute to get a similar look to what was used in the box. 
That said, I did happen to come across some hakea wood that seemed to be a similarly dark reddish tone to the wood used in that box, and i've also gotten some katalox with a darker and slightly more brownish purple colouring that might work well too. 

Thanks, 

Damien


----------



## phinds (Apr 20, 2014)

Damienw said:


> It could be cocobolo, though the grain + chatoyance seem to be quite different to the cocobolo examples i've seen, and i dont think its D.Sissoo.


 
I disagree. I don't think it is at all likely to be cocobolo.



> My next guess after pterocarpus santalinus would be padauk at this point. Though perhaps only time might tell a bit more clearly which one it is, since as far as i'm aware P. Santalinus is the only one in the pterocarpus family that turns dark purplish black over time.


Well, I'm not familiar with P. Santalinus turning dark purplish black so I can't comment on that but I think the grain is clearly wrong for padauk.



> At this point i'm more just trying to figure out whether this particular piece is one of the species historically known as zitan, more so than trying to find a more widely available possible substitute to get a similar look to what was used in the box.
> That said, I did happen to come across some hakea wood that seemed to be a similarly dark reddish tone to the wood used in that box, and i've also gotten some katalox with a darker and slightly more brownish purple colouring that might work well too.


 
Good luck. Post pics if you find any.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Kevin (Apr 20, 2014)

Damienw said:


> My next guess after pterocarpus santalinus would be padauk at this point.



I'm certain it isn't Padauk.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Molokai (Apr 20, 2014)

What ever it is, nice find in a scrap pile.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## barry richardson (Apr 20, 2014)

You would have a lot easier time of it if you took some of the wood from the box (if you own it) and took it down to a bare fresh surface. The box looks pretty old, I imagine the bare wood will look a lot different. Otherwise, trying to determine the species/match the look, is pretty much a shot in the dark. I can say one thing for sure, it is not Paduak, and Paduak will never look like that.... I think the best guess is rosewood, since back in the day, fine boxes such as that were most commonly made with rosewood. It was the original exotic wood, only in recent years has the flod of other exotics appeared in the market place... Basically since the ban on Braz around 1970...

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Damienw (Apr 20, 2014)

barry richardson said:


> You would have a lot easier time of it if you took some of the wood from the box (if you own it) and took it down to a bare fresh surface. The box looks pretty old, I imagine the bare wood will look a lot different. Otherwise, trying to determine the species/match the look, is pretty much a shot in the dark. I can say one thing for sure, it is not Paduak, and Paduak will never look like that.... I think the best guess is rosewood, since back in the day, fine boxes such as that were most commonly made with rosewood. It was the original exotic wood, only in recent years has the flod of other exotics appeared in the market place... Basically since the ban on Braz around 1970...



Unfortunately its not mine, i just found it online whilst looking through Christies and Sothebys catalogues, though if i owned it i'm not so sure i'd be too tempted to sand down a patch on it to bare wood, considering it sold for something in the region of $45,000 at auction haha. 
For the moment at least trying to figure out what woods might come close to matching its look going by what I and other people know about their freshly surfaced and aged appearances is about as close as i can come to it.


----------



## barry richardson (Apr 20, 2014)

My opinion, again, especially since it is a high end Sothesby' piece is that is is rosewood, probably Brazilian. That was the popular high-end wood for these type pieces in earlier times. It will be hard to duplicate that particular look, even if you acquired Braz because of the patina. Furniture restorers probably know some tricks to do it though.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


----------



## jimtjlt (Monday at 12:05 PM)

Damienw said:


> Hi there everyone, i've been trying to find a similar wood to this for a small table project in the future, but as yet i've had no success finding anything that's not either endangered and impossible for me to buy or import, or else extinct.
> 
> I'm pretty sure its either pterocarpus santalinus/red sandal wood, dalbergia louvelli, or dalbergia maritima, so if anyone knows of any woods similar to those that are relatively readily available i'd very much appreciate your input. :)
> 
> At the moment i'm thinking that perhaps katalox or padauk might give a similar look? but i'm not sure whether they'd give that deep purple/red colour or would age to it.






I cannot see your photo, however I do have some raw Zitan pieces I brought back from China in 2004. If I could see your photo, I could do a comparison

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@jimtjlt, I've moved your comment to outside of the quote. I see you're new to the site. Once you hit "reply", you type your own comments FOLLOWING the quoted text, not inside them. Easy mistake to make. phinds (moderator).

What browser are you using? I'm using Firefox and have no trouble seeing the pics. Do you have trouble seeing pics in other posts?


----------



## ripjack13 (Monday at 1:38 PM)

jimtjlt said:


> I cannot see your photo, however I do have some raw Zitan pieces I brought back from China in 2004. If I could see your photo, I could do a comparison
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> @jimtjlt, I've moved your comment to outside of the quote. I see you're new to the site. Once you hit "reply", you type your own comments FOLLOWING the quoted text, not inside them. Easy mistake to make. phinds (moderator).
> ...


This is a post that's over 7 years old. Some pictures may not show up after the upgrades done on this forum software.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## jimtjlt (Monday at 6:42 PM)

ripjack13 said:


> This is a post that's over 7 years old. Some pictures may not show up after the upgrades done on this forum software.


At any rate, I'm trying to gauge the market for some Zitan wood I brought home from a Suzhou furniture shop almost 20 years ago. I also have Hongmu from there. Also Ebony, and Deep Red Meranti from the Philippines and Malaysia. I just have collected too much and need to sell some.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## ripjack13 (Monday at 7:12 PM)

jimtjlt said:


> At any rate, I'm trying to gauge the market for some Zitan wood I brought home from a Suzhou furniture shop almost 20 years ago. I also have Hongmu from there. Also Ebony, and Deep Red Meranti from the Philippines and Malaysia. I just have collected too much and need to sell some.


Ah no problem. Please head over to the main page area, Read the rules, and then introduce yourself in the introduction section.

Reactions: Like 2


----------

