# Questions on Box Elders



## Smudge (Nov 2, 2013)

I hope I posted this in the right section:

I am looking for information about Box Elder. My aunt has a campground on the river and had some box elder taken down since they were dying in the upper reaches, and the arborist said she should cut them for liability's sake. Her tree service guys told her it was worthless and said to just set it by the river and let it float away. I didn't know anything about BE other than seeing some blanks occasionally online. I just happened to be talking to her and she mentioned it and said they were very old trees and BIG. I told her to stop cutting immediately. The guy had cut all of them up into 18" long pieces except three butt logs about 12' long and too big around to cut with his chainsaw. To top that off, I had to anchor them to a big sycamore to save them from being carried off in a massive flood that was coming the next day. Water rose over 8'. The logs were floating out about 1/4 mile from dry land. I lost the two smaller ones.. Ripped right through my heavy tow straps! Fear the river man. 

I am looking for information from you guys on how big these things are normally. What to look for.. What to save? .. What to do with this wood? According to everybody local they hate it and all agree I should've let it float away. I think that's a huge waste of a long life...so I want to use what I can. 

I did seal the ends and as much of everything as I could as soon as I cut it. 

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

-Stephen


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## Kevin (Nov 2, 2013)

Stephen can you take some pictures for us? Is the wood flamed? Do you know what burl is? Do the logs have any? Burled BE is highly valuable, as is flamed. Even plain Jane BE is good for something. Pictures will help us help you in deciding what to do.


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## Smudge (Nov 2, 2013)

Thanks Kevin. The middle of these logs are all flamed. No burl that I have seen.. The tree looked pretty healthy near the base. It is hard to take clear pics because the logs are so unwieldy due to size. Two crotch pieces are around 60" tip to tip And are very heavy so not easy to access but I will try. What, in your experience, is considered a big BE? These are from West Virginia. Most of the pieces are in the 40"-45" range.


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## kazuma78 (Nov 2, 2013)

Pictures would be alot of help in determining what you have, but if it has alot of flame you could be sitting on some VERY nice timber there


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## Kevin (Nov 2, 2013)

Smudge said:


> ....Two crotch pieces are around 60" tip to tip And are very heavy so not easy to access but I will try. What, in your experience, is considered a big BE?



BE can get pretty large before heart-rotting in the colder climes like you have, but I rarely see anything that big down here. In fact I have never harvested anything much over 38" from my patch that had flame and was still solid, and all those went to Europe years ago. I don't have many near that large left. What you have is considered very large especially if they are flamed. Depending on the type of pattern and intensity of the flames, you could be sitting on a small fortune. Since I cannot provide flamed timbers that large anymore, I would be willing to broker a deal for you if what you have is what my Eurpoean buyer is looking for. I am not interested in the broker fees themselves, but since I still sell to him I obviously cannot share his contact info. 

Even if what you have does not meet his criteria (actual FLAME patterns like I sell him) you still have some valuable wood if it is flamed fairly throughly and it's solid. I defintiely need pictures though.


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## Smudge (Nov 2, 2013)

Thanks for the replies everyone. Everything has been solid with no rot. Could you give me an idea of what pictures /angles you are looking for? Also, regretfully my aunt informed me that last year they cut one down even bigger and they let it float away as junk. Glad I saved what I did though we lost at least 50 big chunks in that flood. 

Thanks again.


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## kazuma78 (Nov 2, 2013)

pictures of the ends of the logs showing the flame in them and the sizes of the logs. Just something to get some kind of idea of what you have on your hands.


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## Kevin (Nov 2, 2013)

Stephen, seeing pictures of both ends of the logs are important, but having pics of fresh cut ends are even more important unless you used a transparent log sealer. I need to see the color of the flames, but the pattern of the flames are even more inportant and I can see all I need to see from the end grain.


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## Smudge (Nov 2, 2013)

I found some pictures I took when I first got down there. I wasn't prepared for it to be as big, as people are prone to exaggeration. The one pic shows a piece that is sitting on 2 24" wide conveyor tracks for scale. I am also putting my arms around the base piece for scale (I know very imperfect but it was what I had at the time).. my arm span is almost exactly 7' from tip to tip.


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## kazuma78 (Nov 2, 2013)

Yeah theres gonna be some good stuff in those logs. Ill let Kevin guide you further but you have some nice stuff in some of those logs.


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## Gdurfey (Nov 2, 2013)

Congrats. You did an amazing thing just recognizing you might have something and then acting! Really cool. I am a total number to all of this. Knew what " burl" was and yet at the same time didn't! Best wishes to you. Very nice of you Kevin to guide and share with him your knowledge. I think this single thread demonstrates the integrity and care of the people on this website. I am so grateful to start learning from this community.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kevin (Nov 2, 2013)

Overall it is not a high value log. It's the typical "red" boxelder but because of the pattern of the redness it is not what is considered "flamed". It's still a wonderful log and worth pursuing. That crotch section is going to be nasty (good) simply because it's had enough years to make some very woven patterns and hopefully some red mixed in. But even if not red, BE crotch all by itself makes one of the best crotch woods I have seen. 

My suggestion is to find a local sawyer who understands the real value of this wood - or better yet one who doesn't and thinks you're crazy to want to "waste your money" milling it. The lack of a starburst pattern does keep it out of the extreme ranges of value, but for someone like you who understands that wood is valuable no matter the dollar amount, you are the perfect steward of these beautiful logs. Turners will gobble these up and the work is minimal if you just sell log shorts. We will help you transfer your labor and wood into dollars as much as we can. In the meantime I can probably hook you up with a sawyer if you cannot find one on your own.


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## Smudge (Nov 3, 2013)

Thanks for the information Kevin. You are definitely right about me. I didn't attempt to save this tree to try and get rich, but instead just wanted to give it a chance that it's life and beauty wouldn't be wasted. I had/have no idea what I wanted to do with it, but was hoping to find an outlet where it would be appreciated and live on.. and it looks like through this board I have found that.

For my own education, the starburst pattern you mentioned, is that a feature that is either in a tree or not or just in a specific section of a tree? 

As far as the BE crotch piece, that's good to know..the one in the picture is about 60" wide as I mentioned and there is another big one not in the picture that is almost as big as that one. The two pieces alone filled up a 10' trailer.

I would love some more detailed direction on where to go with these. Any information you (or others) could provide about the process would be greatly appreciated.

Stephen


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