# Best way to look at heating/cooling a home these days



## Vector (May 18, 2013)

I see where you guys have been discussing cooling a fish tank. Any thoughts on using these methods or similar ones to heat/cool a home?

I may be building soon, and I have NO desire to heat with propane. 

This is not something I have a great knowlege base about. Reading that fish tank thread has me very interested in exploring options though. 

Thanks!

Vince


----------



## Mike1950 (May 18, 2013)

If you have the chance-orientate the house to south- large windows to south with eave to shade these windows in summer but allow sun in in winter- Passive(free) solar. Now if you do this and earth berm-4' -concrete floor with tile or? for heat sink your cooling and heat costs go way down. Now the rest of the wall. If you add up the studs in a wall = 30-40% of wall. this means if you have a 6" wall r-19 then 30-40% is r-2.5 but even worse heat and cold seek the easiest avenue- of escape or intrusion. That is why you can count the studs in winter in most houses in cold climate. 3" or more of eps foam on outside under siding solves this problem. a flat r-10 + for 3". heat cold and sound problems go away. Look into Alaska housing- this is where you will see it in use- also it will be standard in building codes future everywhere. 40% of energy used is in heating/cooling homes. PS My house is proof. I have added 1000' to original footprint and the 2.5" of foam has my bill the same as 1988. Previous to that I built a earth bermed solar home that worked like a charm.................


----------



## jimmyjames (May 18, 2013)

Right now geothermal heating and cooling has such a large up front cost to justify doing it, if your in it for the long haul and plan on living in the house 30+ years and have pockets deep enough to pay for it you will see a return in savings, also some states offer tax credits for using geothermal. I would say frame the house with 2x6 exterior walls and insulate them them along with vapor barriers, exterior insulation under the siding if its an option for your construction, if not there are new more advanced insulations with higher R values for the given wall thickness. Another thing is get the best and highest R value windows you can afford. Another thing not to skimp on is attic insulation, I've seen house with 2" of blown insulation and they wonder why its so hard to heat and cool they're house.... stuff it full! The only other option to get any more efficient then that is to build an earthen home like mike mentioned, there's not any better insulation then the ground!


----------



## jimmyjames (May 18, 2013)

Oh and heating with propane is of the past, propane is getting more and more expensive, heating with electricity is much cheaper, also another option is going with a tank less water heater in conjunction with a solar water heater, in the summer months you will never have to pay to heat water, my family has a cabin in Minnesota and has a solar water heater panel on the roof and has been there for 20 years, we have never lit the pilot on the propane water heater since we have been vacationing there, if I remember right it has a capacity of 80 gallons..... it would be a different story in the winter but we close the cabin down in the winter months


----------



## drycreek (May 19, 2013)

I have a berm home with 10 inch thick concrete walls with dirt up 6 foot and blown in attic insulation. 2800 sq feet heat with wood or electric, cool with electric average is $89.00 dollars a month but look like its going to go up a little as Westar is getting ready to raise their rates. But with that aside wife and I are going to sell and relocate in our old age to tenn we think and scale back to about 1400 sq feet and it will be a berm home again. As mike said do the south solar passive heat with the windows we have them now and don't use the heat system until December or have made it to January a time or two.


----------



## Vector (May 19, 2013)

Several great ideas! Thank you all very much for your time. No doubt I'll take any more thoughts I can get!

I like the south facing windows, and I like the solar water heater. I would want mine to have an electric backup. 

Momma doesn't want a bermer. I'm all about it, and was planning it out in my mind, and she's not biting. :(

Vince


----------



## Mike1950 (May 19, 2013)

Vector said:


> Several great ideas! Thank you all very much for your time. No doubt I'll take any more thoughts I can get!
> 
> I like the south facing windows, and I like the solar water heater. I would want mine to have an electric backup.
> 
> ...



My wife did not either- but we settled for 4' -flower beds flourished there-back wall was 8', we were on a south facing point. I will see if I can find a picture. It looked like a ordinary house.


----------



## Mike1950 (May 19, 2013)

Being the Stucco-EIFS and interior plaster business we worked in very big ticket houses. I went to all kinds of building science seminars thru the last 35 years. This game is constantly evolving. Be careful with vapor barriers. A lot of problems were created 20 yrs ago in the south. Vapor barrier was put on interior of wall as in north but there were more cooling days then heating. warm moist air infiltrated to outside of VP and condensed there because interior was cool dry air conditioned air. This deposited water on interior of wall- ugly things happened at first with EIFS because it was tighter and better insulated but later with all sidings. Building officials skated by saying ooopps.
Also the tighter we make house and have it 32 degrees outside and 70 inside created a negative air pressure inside sucking cold air in. If you make it tight make sure you invest in an air to air heat exchanger to equalize pressure. Alaska is the leading edge of this and 5-8" EPS foam is starting to be standard- it is cheap and very effective. The Attic- 14" insulation use LED can lights so you do not have to block out- they are the biggest leak in my home but the LED are cheap enough now I will be changing out in fall. The money you put in will come back to you- The bet you are making is will energy get more expensive in decades ahead. Also beware of the cheap electricity for heat- we went thru that- I would go with gas. Preferably in floor radiant.


----------



## Vector (May 19, 2013)

I'd be interested to see any photos you have to share Mike so we can maybe come to a compromise. 

She is worried about it leaking in the gully-washer type rains we have around here at times. Her quote was, "I don't know anyone that has a basement that has never leaked."

We're going to be building off of a Morton Building type base, if that plays into your thoughts at all. We both like the barn/shed look. I know that's not for everyone, but we both like it, and its obviously on the cheaper side of putting a new home in. (Neither of us have fancy-dancy jobs to be asking for anyting too extravagant.) 

Thanks again!

Vince


----------



## Mike1950 (May 19, 2013)

I will dig up some pics- I moved in 87. My wife had RA and everyone said it would be like living in a damp basement. We had very heavy clay soil.I used gravel and French drain at footing level. Not only did I never ever have one drop of water in house all that concrete insulated on outside worked as a heat sink to keep house a nice even temp. I never hooked up the electric heat. The sun and a little wood kept it nice and cozy once we learned to build little fires. 110,000 pounds of concrete at 85 took a while to cool down even when it was 15 degrees out. I have some crazy stories about that first winter. I know the people that have lived there since and nary a drop of water. If you do it right that is not a valid arguement.


----------



## drycreek (May 19, 2013)

Our house was built in 1990 and we have never seen a drop of water, if they are built right you want see any water. Ours was built on level ground and then dirt piled up around it. With the French drains have not had any problem.


----------

