# CA finish



## pinky (Oct 17, 2016)

I have a question for the pen turners who use a CA finish. What do use as an applicator for the CA when applying to the blank?


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## Sprung (Oct 17, 2016)

The answer to that question is probably about as varied as the number of pen turners there are. Some use their finger (wearing gloves, obviously), some put the little baggies from pen components over their finger, so buy the sheets of craft foam and cut it into strips to apply, others have a certain brand of paper towel that they say is best, and I'm sure there are more methods I've seen/read but can't remember.

Personally, I use the blue shop towels on a roll. I've tried some of the other means of application - gloved finger, foam strip - but this is what works best for me - other methods have worked best for others. You might have to give a few methods a try and see which one works best for you.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Tclem (Oct 17, 2016)

All I use is satellite city brand. I've used others and this is a tad more than some but all I use now and 99% of pens are ca finished. I use a piece of paper towel folded several times. But I can't remember the brand off hand. Aghhhhh brain cramp. It doesn't have the fuss most paper towels have


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## Schroedc (Oct 17, 2016)

I use strips cut from old cloth diapers (We have a commercial laundry near us that bags up the ones that get too frayed to keep using)


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## Tom Smart (Oct 17, 2016)

Blue shop towels for me. I cut a sheet into quarters, then fold one of the quarters in half and half again so you wind up with a piece about an inch wide by 5 inches long and 4 layers thick. Put a drop of boiled linseed oil on the end followed by 2 or 3 drops of CA. With the lathe at about 1000 rpm rub the wet spot back and forth along the length of the tube until you can feel the heat generating. It should be dry and smooth at this point. Tear that end off and apply as many coats as you feel you need. If done right there should be no need to sand. You can go directly to a plastic polish for a few coats. 

I usually wind up with a bunch of glue on my index finger from bleed through. You could put a small plastic bag from the pen kit on your finger to help with that problem.

Reactions: Like 1


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## pinky (Oct 17, 2016)

I don't turn alot of pens but have always used the blue shop towels. The problem I find is that after each coat I have to wet sand the ridges that are left behind from the paper. I do use glasses that are magnified when looking at the finish but it is apparent.


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## Tom Smart (Oct 17, 2016)

pinky said:


> I don't turn alot of pens but have always used the blue shop towels. The problem I find is that after each coat I have to wet sand the ridges that are left behind from the paper. I do use glasses that are magnified when looking at the finish but it is apparent.



Try what I described above and you should not get ridges.


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## pinky (Oct 17, 2016)

Tom
The only difference is I don't use the linseed oil and I don't wait for heat build up. I will try them.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lou Currier (Oct 17, 2016)

pinky said:


> I don't turn alot of pens but have always used the blue shop towels. The problem I find is that after each coat I have to wet sand the ridges that are left behind from the paper. I do use glasses that are magnified when looking at the finish but it is apparent.



Probably the better question is what viscosity of CA are you using.


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## pinky (Oct 17, 2016)

Usually the first coat is medium and then all thin from there.


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## Lou Currier (Oct 17, 2016)

Personally I would reverse the process. I find that when I use a thicker CA that I get ridges.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tom Smart (Oct 17, 2016)

Lou Currier said:


> Probably the better question is what viscosity of CA are you using.



I use medium.


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## Tom Smart (Oct 17, 2016)

pinky said:


> Tom
> The only difference is I don't use the linseed oil and I don't wait for heat build up. I will try them.



You can be aggressive, even fold the paper towel over around the blank and move back and forth between thumb and index finger.


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## Tom Smart (Oct 17, 2016)

Coupla other thoughts. Use delrin bushings if you have them. You may get CA and bits of paper towel built up on the ends of the blank. Don't worry about that, you just need to carefully square the blanks after applying the finish.


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## pinky (Oct 17, 2016)

I do use delrin bushings when finishing. I always have tried to apply lightly. I will try the firmer process.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tclem (Oct 17, 2016)

I use blo on some woods and when I don't want it as shiny. I put in about 10 coats of thin. I don't try to cover entire blank with each pass and I wipe it pretty fast. Keeps build ups from occurring. I then wet sand 1000-1500-2000 grit.


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## rocky1 (Oct 17, 2016)

I believe the magic paper towel was Brawny. And, personally I did find it to make a difference. Likewise, was using Blue Shop Towels, likewise was having problems with lines. Went to the plain old white Brawny towels, and things got much simpler. Have had limited success with Craft Foam, still like my Brawny towels though.

Most folks recommend starting with thin CA, lay down 2 - 5 coats, sand the lines out, and continue. If you want to build quicker, use medium AFTER you have a good base established. I've found sanding goes a long ways to avoid ripples and lines too. A little extra prep time sanding, pays off in the long run. 

Unless your shop is air conditioned, temperature and humidity has a considerable affect on how cooperative your CA is. I've also noticed that alternating the end you start on helps reduce line build-up. Work from the left, then back from the right, or vice-versa.

The video below recommends it, but in my experience, exercise caution using accelerator over medium or thick, especially that in the little pump bottle. The medium and thick doesn't set as fast, will skin over, and when you hit it with the accelerator, if you find a spot where you've laid it in a little heavy and it's wet underneath, it will blister up and wreck your finish. You'll have to sand back until you cut the damage out of the finish, sometimes to bare wood. Bigger issue there on game calls than pens, because of the lines of call body.

This video taught me more than anything I read.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tclem (Oct 17, 2016)

rocky1 said:


> I believe the magic paper towel was Brawny. And, personally I did find it to make a difference. Likewise, was using Blue Shop Towels, likewise was having problems with lines. Went to the plain old white Brawny towels, and things got much simpler. Have had limited success with Craft Foam, still like my Brawny towels though.
> 
> Most folks recommend starting with thin CA, lay down 2 - 5 coats, sand the lines out, and continue. If you want to build quicker, use medium AFTER you have a good base established. I've found sanding goes a long ways to avoid ripples and lines too. A little extra prep time sanding, pays off in the long run.
> 
> ...


I've watched this video 100 times and talk to Andrew 100 times about his technique. Some turners swear accelator isn't any good but I use it and think I have a pretty good finish. Off course I only use thing ca. Multiple light coats

Reactions: Agree 1


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## rocky1 (Oct 17, 2016)

Consensus on accelerator seems to be, aerosol is far better than the little pump bottle. I stand back with the pump bottle about a foot, and pump it hard to try and atomize it better; seems to help if you're using the bottle. I've got a fan blowing lengthwise down my lathe and out the door to move dust and fumes away from me in the shop. Unless I'm really in a hurry, or really trying to build something up, the accelerator bottle stays in the fridge. That too depends upon the weather however, cooler days, I may have to use it after applying the first few coats.

Thin coats of thin will not as a rule get you in trouble.

Quick multiple coats of Thin, before hitting it with accelerator, and moderate coats of Medium or Thick CA when trying to build depth rapidly, will get you in trouble almost without fail. High points on the piece you're turning, i.e. edge of the bell, or lanyard rings on a call will get you in trouble quick too. The steeper the wall, sharper the edge, the faster you turn the piece, the more problems you can anticipate. Your CA moves up the wall to the highest point through centrifugal force and piles up on the high points. That one is especially true with Medium CA as it tends to puddle a little in the bottom of the swell when you wipe over it, skin over, and move up under the stuff that's cured on top. You're more apt to see Thick blister in the bottom of the swell, where Medium and Thin will blister on top of the ridge. 

Accelerator does have it's place, I won't deny that at all, I do use it at times. When it comes to using it on Medium or Thick CA, I generally let the piece turn for a minute or more before applying accelerator, then apply it liberally. It's insurance, I give it every opportunity to cure on it's own, use the Accelerator to make sure my CA is cured before applying the next layer of CA and piling it on top of uncured stuff.

Reactions: Like 1


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## pinky (Oct 19, 2016)

I can get a nice finish but I'm telling you it's frustrating. The blue towels leave real fine ridges. Wet sand them out and apply another coat. Way too much sanding between coats. I tried harder pressure Tom and the results were not good. Doing something wrong. Here's another question. Does anyone leave the ridges and keep building up coats and then just wet sand the final coat? If not, I need to try a different applicator or move on to another type of finish. How would lacquer hold up on a pen? Anyone try it?


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## Tom Smart (Oct 19, 2016)

Hmmm. I have not had any problem with ridges using this method. I keep the pressure on and the back and forth movement up until the layer is cured, 30 seconds maybe. If you do not have the drop of BLO on the shop towel before the CA, you will get a poor application and bits of towel sticking to the blank.


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## rocky1 (Oct 19, 2016)

CA finish can be very frustrating! It's something that requires a great deal of patience and practice to master.

-- Try the Brawny towels, see if it makes a difference. Not like you're out anything, over a roll of paper towels, you can always use them in the kitchen if you don't like them. I noticed a difference right away, didn't see the ridges forming like they did with shop towels.

-- If you haven't you might try adjusting your speed also... I've found I have less trouble with ridges, if I speed my lathe up a little, and make quick passes across the piece. 800 - 1200 RPMs and quick passes works much better than 500 RPMs for me.


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## pinky (Oct 19, 2016)

I been applying at 840 rpm or the 2nd pulley on the jet, I think it's 840. I move along the blank reasonably quick. I will try Brawny. When you had ridges, did you keep building up or sand them gone between coats?

@rocky1


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## Tclem (Oct 19, 2016)

pinky said:


> I can get a nice finish but I'm telling you it's frustrating. The blue towels leave real fine ridges. Wet sand them out and apply another coat. Way too much sanding between coats. I tried harder pressure Tom and the results were not good. Doing something wrong. Here's another question. Does anyone leave the ridges and keep building up coats and then just wet sand the final coat? If not, I need to try a different applicator or move on to another type of finish. How would lacquer hold up on a pen? Anyone try it?


watch haddenhailers video on YouTube. That's what I do and I think I have a pretty good finish.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## pinky (Oct 19, 2016)

Tony
I watched it a couple times already. Sure looks easy!


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## Tclem (Oct 19, 2016)

pinky said:


> Tony
> I watched it a couple times already. Sure looks easy!


Lol. It took me a couple months to get it down pat. Lots of blanks got sanded back out. Almost quit a few times.


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## rocky1 (Oct 19, 2016)

I sanded the ridges out John, not every pass, but every 3 - 5 passes if they were building badly. Trying to fill the low spots will add to the ridges as well. It would stand to reason that as is the case with high points in the lines on your piece, centrifugal force will move some CA up the ridge and build the ridge quicker than the low spots. Or, at least it seems that way when I'm doing it.

If the ridges are minimal, or you have fine missed streaks in the finish, alternating the direction of your application does seem to have some filling effect, and you may be able to cover them without sanding. Alternating back and forth with a little pressure applied does seem to smooth them some and help reduce the problem in my experience.

The problem I found with the blue towels I was using was two fold. 

1.) They were a little coarser than the Brawny and simply didn't leave as nice and smooth a finish as the Brawny does to start, and... 
2.) The cotton content in the blue towel was apparently higher than the Brawny. As you may be aware, CA has an exothermic reaction with cotton, therein generating heat, which accelerates the curing process on your towel and on your finish. On your towel that can cause hard spots prematurely, which contribute to and frequently are the cause of the ridges. Using the Brawny seemed to slow that somewhat. I don't get nearly as much heat or smoke out of the Brawny towels as I did with the blue shop towels I was using. Dependent upon what blue towel a guy is using that may or may not be the case with others. Yes, the Brawny towels still do that, they will still make you cuss when you glue it to the tip of your finger and can't get it off, but it's not quite as quick about it as the blue towels I was using were.

Applying thin coats is the key. Not going to lie even a little and tell you I don't get ridges still, because I do at times, but I can generally point to weather conditions, or trying to build my finish to quick as the cause.

Using a polishing wheel after the fact helps immensely as well. Much easier to buff them out than try to sand them to perfection.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## ripjack13 (Oct 19, 2016)

I use cheap paper towels. The unprinted white ones from BJ's Warehouse..


 


My lathe speed is on the 4th pulley.


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## rdabpenman (Oct 20, 2016)

I found over the years that a MINWAX Clear Gloss Polyurethane finish is just as durable as any CA finish and is easier to apply with a consistent finish each and every time.

Les


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## pinky (Oct 21, 2016)

For me, I feel its more about the applicator than the finishing product. I haven't picked up the Brawny yet but I did get much improved results with a cotton cloth. I have rags for finishing. Cut small pieces and folding not exposing the ends or frays. Only 3 coats on but no ridges.

Reactions: Like 1


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## andy close (Feb 26, 2018)

Tom Smart said:


> Blue shop towels for me. I cut a sheet into quarters, then fold one of the quarters in half and half again so you wind up with a piece about an inch wide by 5 inches long and 4 layers thick. Put a drop of boiled linseed oil on the end followed by 2 or 3 drops of CA. With the lathe at about 1000 rpm rub the wet spot back and forth along the length of the tube until you can feel the heat generating. It should be dry and smooth at this point. Tear that end off and apply as many coats as you feel you need. If done right there should be no need to sand. You can go directly to a plastic polish for a few coats.



I wouldn't think that CA would stick to the pen with BLO being applied at the same time, or on the applicator. 
I have been finishing my pens (I'm still a n00b) with a couple coats of Danish Oil first to pop the grain. I usually let the blank dry for a day, at least a couple hours, before applying a CA finish because the CA didn't seem to dry when applied right after the Danish Oil. I use Danish Oil because I have it on hand and like the way it pops the grain. I guess I'll have to pick up some BLO and give this method a try. It certainly would be nice to finish a pen in a single sitting and not have to wait for the first finish to cure before applying CA.


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## greenmtnguy (Feb 26, 2018)

A 6 minute CA finish and yes it can be done. Not my video but I basically use the same method but with any paper towel.I do 6 coats medium and sand with 400 until the shine is gone/finish level. Try 0000 steel wool after sanding. Make sure it is 0000/very fine. It might surprise you. I think most problems are not enough CA to get the high shine. Notice he uses a drizzle, not drops. Hope it helps.


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## andy close (Feb 27, 2018)

thanks @greenmtnguy. I've been using a technique similar to that in the video but use shop towels as applicators and do not use activator if possible. I tired using the little plastic bags over my finger trick to apply CA in a similar manner that the gentleman in the video uses tape. I ended up with a lot of ridges and bumps. I'm guessing it just takes a lot of practice. it's amazing the number of different techniques and tools that people use to end up with the same thing. :D


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## Lou Currier (Feb 27, 2018)

You should really try using a coffee filter instead. More CA goes on the blank where paper and shop towels absorb the CA.


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## Wildthings (Feb 27, 2018)

Lou Currier said:


> You should really try using a coffee filter instead. More CA goes on the blank where paper and shop towels absorb the CA.


I use nitrile gloves as my applicator. All of the CA stays on the blank instead of some soaking into the applicator. Well at least 97% of it

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## andy close (Feb 27, 2018)

@Lou Currier, I'll give coffee filters a try.

@Wildthings, I've not used my gloves per se but have gotten CA on them. I use the cheap HF nitrile gloves. They do occasionally stick to themselves after getting glue on them. do you use BLO or some other oil first to keep the CA from sticking to you? What about burns? I can sometimes feel the CA heating up through my shop towel. I'd think it would be worse with just the glove.


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## rocky1 (Feb 28, 2018)

I tried the nitrile gloves... They're a pain in the ass to sand off your pen blank when they stick!! 
Kinda ripped the end right out the finger, wrapped it all the way around the blank. Couple times in fact!!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## andy close (Feb 28, 2018)

I gave coffee filters a try last night. I'll need some more practice with them but it appears that I end up using less CA and get as good, if not better, coverage per pass. Of course, I had to sand my blank back down to bare wood and start over again but that's part of the learning process. :)

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## ripjack13 (Feb 28, 2018)

rocky1 said:


> I tried the nitrile gloves... They're a pain in the ass to sand off your pen blank when they stick!!
> Kinda ripped the end right out the finger, wrapped it all the way around the blank. Couple times in fact!!



I've tried that, and done that. It goes on ripply, so I stick with the viva paper towels. Although, I may have to try the coffee filters method....

Reactions: Like 1


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## Wildthings (Feb 28, 2018)

rocky1 said:


> I tried the nitrile gloves... They're a pain in the ass to sand off your pen blank when they stick!!
> Kinda ripped the end right out the finger, wrapped it all the way around the blank. Couple times in fact!!



Well then you're doing it wrong! I have never had one stick



andy close said:


> @Lou Currier, I'll give coffee filters a try.
> 
> @Wildthings, I've not used my gloves per se but have gotten CA on them. I use the cheap HF nitrile gloves. They do occasionally stick to themselves after getting glue on them. do you use BLO or some other oil first to keep the CA from sticking to you? What about burns? I can sometimes feel the CA heating up through my shop towel. I'd think it would be worse with just the glove.



Nope I dribble med CA onto the top of a slowing turning blanks and use the tip of my nitrile cover finger to spread it from the bottom side and finish by bringing my finger to the top where all the CA remains on the blank. I then wipe my finger off with a paper towel and use the finger again. 3-5 coats is more than sufficient for a finish. I usually get one blank per finger but sometimes it takes two fingers.

There's no heat. A lot of the heat is caused by the reaction of the CA with paper products. Maybe I'm wiping off the CA before any heat is generated

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## rocky1 (Feb 28, 2018)

Wildthings said:


> Well then you're doing it wrong! I have never had one stick



CA started setting, I was still smoothing, and hit a tacky spot; that glove finger was gone in a flash! Mighta been a thin spot in the glove too, I don't know. Just know nitrile glove is a pain to sand out of a CA finish. 



Wildthings said:


> There's no heat. A lot of the heat is caused by the reaction of the CA with paper products. Maybe I'm wiping off the CA before any heat is generated



I didn't get any heat when I did it with the glove either. I think that was a contributing factor to the finger sticking, there was no build up of heat, as anticipated. I felt a little drag and it stuck.

Reactions: Like 1


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