# SPALT-------- How--Where-- Why--What????



## Cross Sawmill (Nov 6, 2013)

I know spalt has been discussed here before now. I am also pretty sure that spalt will be discussed after this. But it is like other aspects of wood, it has so many variables that it always seems to be a current subject. How does it occur? Is it only one type of organism (blue-black mold) ? Where does it occur? Only in sapwood? Only in certain species? Why does it sometimes make "Pencil Line Spalt" and other times and places it makes large blue or black areas? Does it exhibit different patterns according to grain orientation ? Can you have quarter sawed spalt? What is it and do people consider amount and pattern important?


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## bald9eagle (Nov 6, 2013)

I've been spalt hunting as of late. I am basically looking for rotting logs that I might can save. We have found some nice stuff. I think it shows up nicer in light colored woods. I have some pecan, ash, and hackberry that has some nice spalting. 

I think conditions play the biggest roll in spalt. Here in the South you have lots of heat and humidity which can only help promote it I think. I have wondered about Northern woods and their ability to spalt and what effects snow and freezing temps have on the process. I also believe that soil plays a big part. The hackberry I had was put up in the dry in my old barn. The barn floor certainly had some pig and cow poo from days long gone by.


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## Kevin (Nov 6, 2013)

Steve, you will inavariably be referred to the doctor of spalt whatshername (someone help me out here I am sincerely not recalling her name right now) and I think you should start at her site because she really does know her stuff. Just do not get caught up in what some will say that she knows all there is to know or that her findings are infallible. But to get a big time jump-start on understanding how spalting occurs at the cellular level there is no better authority on the subject.

In the meantime, could you post some pictures?

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## Mike Jones (Nov 6, 2013)

Steve, Here is a link to a series of articles by Dr. Sara Robinson, (Dr. Spalting) On this page are the links to her various articles. Somewhere in there she answers about any question one might have about spalting in wood.


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## DKMD (Nov 6, 2013)

It's funny that you bring this up since the Oklahoma City turning club had a webinar with Dr. Robinson this past weekend... I had every intention of logging in and watching it, but I had to work during the broadcast. I'm sure there are folks who know as much or maybe more about spalting wood, but she seems to be the most referenced in the woodturning world. Like most scientific endeavors, I'd imagine there's some healthy disagreement in the scientific community about aspects of spalting as well.

We kicked this topic around a while back, and it seems that there's some consensus on parts of the process and disagreement on others based on personal experiences... It wouldn't be any fun if we all agreed with each other all the time.

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## rob3232 (Nov 6, 2013)

Steve,
I can't waite for you to post up some pictures of live oak spalt;) I am pretty sure you have seen it with the amount of wood you have worked with. I used to call it "rot" and didn't even think it was suited to burn. Boy o'boy was I wrong. 
Northern spalting google search should get you there. 
Rob


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## ironman123 (Nov 6, 2013)

Say Mr Mike Jones, where is that link? I didn't see it.

Ray


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## Mike Jones (Nov 6, 2013)

OOoooops!

http://www.finewoodworking.com/blog/woodworking-life/tag/spalting


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## Cross Sawmill (Nov 6, 2013)

Kevin said:


> Steve, you will inavariably be referred to the doctor of spalt whatshername (someone help me out here I am sincerely not recalling her name right now) and I think you should start at her site because she really does know her stuff. Just do not get caught up in what some will say that she knows all there is to know or that her findings are infallible. But to get a big time jump-start on understanding how spalting occurs at the cellular level there is no better authority on the subject.
> 
> In the meantime, could you post some pictures?


 Google Dr. Sara Robinson (Dr. Spalt). I looked it up and read some of it. I intend to read more, but one thing that was interesting was different organisms caused different patterns and colors AND it is somewhat controllable. Hmmmm!!!!


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## Cross Sawmill (Nov 6, 2013)

rob3232 said:


> Steve,
> I can't waite for you to post up some pictures of live oak spalt;) I am pretty sure you have seen it with the amount of wood you have worked with. I used to call it "rot" and didn't even think it was suited to burn. Boy o'boy was I wrong.
> Northern spalting google search should get you there.
> Rob


 In "the land of the blind, it is hard to See". I really did not know that I was supposed to be looking for it! It is a sure bet it is here and probably a lot of it.

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## robert flynt (Nov 6, 2013)

A wood turning friend of mine likes to get sweet gum and maple logs about 2 to 3' long and make them spald. He takes them and stands them on end on the ground and covers the exposed end with burlap or something he can keep damp. Then he will flip them over pretty often, always keeping the exposed end covered and damp to let the mold do its job. He preshapes his turns for his big (huge) lathe with a chain saw and I like to get his drops. Never seen anything like that lathe, it has a removable bed to make it open ended and a huge swing arm that he can move around in front of his bowl turn. Says that if it clears the floor and his ceiling light he can turn it.

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## robert flynt (Nov 6, 2013)

Cross Sawmill said:


> I know spalt has been discussed here before now. I am also pretty sure that spalt will be discussed after this. But it is like other aspects of wood, it has so many variables that it always seems to be a current subject. How does it occur? Is it only one type of organism (blue-black mold) ? Where does it occur? Only in sapwood? Only in certain species? Why does it sometimes make "Pencil Line Spalt" and other times and places it makes large blue or black areas? Does it exhibit different patterns according to grain orientation ? Can you have quarter sawed spalt? What is it and do people consider amount and pattern important?


 For knife makers pencil lines are the most sought after the denser the better.


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## Cross Sawmill (Nov 8, 2013)

Has anyone sawed any "Shitake" logs?


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## Kevin (Nov 8, 2013)

I've eaten plenty of them.

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## Cross Sawmill (Nov 8, 2013)

Kevin said:


> I've eaten plenty of them.


 It seems that a lot of people have eaten a lot of them. Perhaps it has some sort Yin-Yang relationship with the inter-planet Bamboo? What I was wondering if the logs cultivated for Shitake farming had interesting spalt?


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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Nov 8, 2013)

Im not sure about the spalting part but I know they need oak logs to grow. I had a mushroom farmer contact me a few years back about supplying him with oak logs for inoculation of the spores.


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## Mike Jones (Nov 8, 2013)

Some of the shitake logs that I am familiar with are not logs at all, but are long plastic bags that have been filled with inoculated wood chips. I took a night class at the community college some years ago where we made some of these logs. The 'shrooms bloomed out of holes that were punctured along the length of the bag. We also inoculated some tree limbs, combining commercially cultivated mushrooms spores with sawdust, and cramming that into 1/2" holes that we had drilled into them. None of those produced.


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## Woodman (Nov 8, 2013)

I make paperweights from green crotch oak limbs. I usually get these after a winter storm. I cut sections of crotches that are a few inches longer than what the end product will be. I put 4-6 sections in a plastic bag and seal it. I bring these bags in the house for roughly 4 months. I open the bags when the weather warms and then place them in a black plastic bag and lay them on my black driveway for 2-3 days. It gets very hot inside these bags from the sun. What I'm trying to do here is to stop the spalting and also get them dry enough to finish. It gets very hot in the bags but I've never checked the temperature. Then I let them sit on the driveway and air dry for another day or two. Then I cut them on a bandsaw or circular saw and add my finish. I got these pieces after Hurricane Sandy and finished them a few months ago. They are a mixture of Red Oak and Chestnut Oak, a member of the White Oak group.
To make unspalted pieces I let limb sections dry in my garage without enclosing them in plastic, I just seal the ends with whatever caulking I have available. Wallpaper paste works very well also and dries clear. Usually very little checking and never any spalting unless there was spalting already in the limb.

To spalt larger sections of green logs I usually lay them on the ground and then cover them with plastic sheets to hold in the moisture that rises from the earth.
http://i594.Rule #2/albums/tt28/lakeridge3/SpaltedOak001_zps8f4770a7.jpg

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## DKMD (Nov 8, 2013)

I was asked to participate in a little experiment a few months back... Several turners from different parts of the country roughed out blanks from a local species, and threw them in bags with shavings. I used some lightly burled silver maple and a black plastic bag... I also threw in a bunch of different mushrooms that were growing on my shavings pile in the yard. I stashed the bag in the closet in my shop where my dust collector lives... It stays quite warm in there. I think it turned out ok...

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## Mike1950 (Nov 8, 2013)

David I think the experiment was successful- Looks nice!!!

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## Cross Sawmill (Nov 8, 2013)

DKMD said:


> I was asked to participate in a little experiment a few months back... Several turners from different parts of the country roughed out blanks from a local species, and threw them in bags with shavings. I used some lightly burled silver maple and a black plastic bag... I also threw in a bunch of different mushrooms that were growing on my shavings pile in the yard. I stashed the bag in the closet in my shop where my dust collector lives... It stays quite warm in there. I think it turned out ok...
> 
> View attachment 34300
> 
> ...


 Very Interesting! I am going to have to think about this. Shavings in a bag promoted this spectacular pattern! And the Shitake grew well in a bag of shavings! Also I think it is interesting that it produced pencil line spalt.


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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Nov 8, 2013)

DKMD said:


> I was asked to participate in a little experiment a few months back... Several turners from different parts of the country roughed out blanks from a local species, and threw them in bags with shavings. I used some lightly burled silver maple and a black plastic bag... I also threw in a bunch of different mushrooms that were growing on my shavings pile in the yard. I stashed the bag in the closet in my shop where my dust collector lives... It stays quite warm in there. I think it turned out ok...
> 
> View attachment 34300
> 
> ...


That is pretty awesome! You can dead stack fresh sawn maple in a similar fashion and achieve similar results.


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## Cross Sawmill (Nov 9, 2013)

DKMD said:


> I was asked to participate in a little experiment a few months back... Several turners from different parts of the country roughed out blanks from a local species, and threw them in bags with shavings. I used some lightly burled silver maple and a black plastic bag... I also threw in a bunch of different mushrooms that were growing on my shavings pile in the yard. I stashed the bag in the closet in my shop where my dust collector lives... It stays quite warm in there. I think it turned out ok...
> 
> View attachment 34300
> 
> ...


Did the Burl contribute to the pencil line spalt?


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## DKMD (Nov 9, 2013)

Cross Sawmill said:


> Did the Burl contribute to the pencil line spalt?


It does seem like the patterns are influenced by grain, and I imagine that the grain influences the way the fungus migrates into the wood. My understanding of the pencil lines or zone lines is that they're caused by two fungal colonies colliding... It's a fungal battleground!


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## Mike1950 (Nov 9, 2013)

DKMD said:


> It does seem like the patterns are influenced by grain, and I imagine that the grain influences the way the fungus migrates into the wood. My understanding of the pencil lines or zone lines is that they're caused by two fungal colonies colliding... It's a fungal battleground!



I call the black lines- the great wall of fungi.......


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## Cross Sawmill (Nov 9, 2013)

Does anyone know why fungi grow close together? There isn't mushroom! HaHa!

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## Cross Sawmill (Nov 10, 2013)

bald9eagle said:


> I've been spalt hunting as of late. I am basically looking for rotting logs that I might can save. We have found some nice stuff. I think it shows up nicer in light colored woods. I have some pecan, ash, and hackberry that has some nice spalting.
> 
> I think conditions play the biggest roll in spalt. Here in the South you have lots of heat and humidity which can only help promote it I think. I have wondered about Northern woods and their ability to spalt and what effects snow and freezing temps have on the process. I also believe that soil plays a big part. The hackberry I had was put up in the dry in my old barn. The barn floor certainly had some pig and cow poo from days long gone by.


 Well, It seems that I was wrong about sawed boards not being able to spalt. Many of the other posts show that it can. It is good to get correct information.


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## Tclem (Dec 4, 2013)

I guess here in Mississippi everything spalts. All the wood I get that ends up on the ground waiting on me to turn it is spalting by the time I get to it. All of the wood was fresh cut and solid when I got it.


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## okietreedude (Dec 25, 2013)

I don't know anything about what causes the wood to spalt but I've been in my wood lot quite a bit the last month cutting/splitting firewood and we've uncovered a lot of spalted maple. seems like every log we cut has some to some degree or another, some are heavily spalted, others not so much. This past summer was wetter than we've had the last few years and the logs were buried in weeds so not a lot of sun got to them. We uncovered some river birch that had a lot of spalt and waited about a week to process it. by then I'd lost about 1 1/2" on each end to end checking. 

Right now I've got a couple logs I'm not cutting on thinking they're spalted and I don't have any anchor seal on hand. once my anchor seal arrives, Ill start cutting with my fingers crossed.

One thing I do know about it...if I call Doc, he usually comes a running!

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