# The gift that keeps on giving



## JR Custom Calls

I posted this on FB earlier... but I'm pretty sure 'Some Assembly Required' doesn't begin to describe the gift my parents gave my wife and I... 








This is half the stuff. Had to make 2 trips. We are pulling up the carpet in our master bedroom and hallway and laying down laminate... pulling out our tub/shower combo in our master bath and putting a shower with tile. Pulling up linoleum in both our master bath and kids bath and laying tile. 2 years ago, we put tile in the entry, guest bath, and kitchen, and laminate in our living and dining rooms. That will leave us with carpet only in the kids rooms, which we'll likely replace once we get our house ready to put on the market. 

Luckily, I'm off work until the 4th, so I should be able to get a little bit done. But, I seriously doubt I'll get it all done. Scraped the wallpaper border off the wall in our bathroom tonight. Ugh. Why does anyone want to put that crap up???!!! Next is cutting the tub in to small pieces that can easily be carried out, then pulling baseboard and painting. I hate painting. All Im going to say is if you're looking to get rich, take up stock in Ben-Gay... I have a feeling I'll be buying a bunch soon.

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## Mike1950

I like the ben gay comment- been there.....

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sprung

Yeah, my back and knees are hurting just looking at that... If you don't have any yet, invest the little bit of money into a decent set of knee pads - your knees and back will thank you.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## JR Custom Calls

Sprung said:


> Yeah, my back and knees are hurting just looking at that... If you don't have any yet, invest the little bit of money into a decent set of knee pads - your knees and back will thank you.



I bought a good set when I laid the tile downstairs.. I put them up with my trowels and mixing do dad for the drill. I knew if I didn't put them up, I'd loose them. Just wish I remembered where I put them for safekeeping. Sigh...

Reactions: Funny 6


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## ironman123

You have got your work all planned out. Here is hoping it doesn't hurt to much. If Ben-Gay doesent work, try SOMBRA. It works good. I get it from Amazon.http://www.amazon.com/Sombra-Origin...451184632&sr=8-4&keywords=sombra+warm+therapy


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## Mike1950

I use Miracle -Ice and brandy!!  DO NOT put the Miracle Ice on and then go to the bathroom 
- Trust me on this one...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## Tony

I've found Thera-gesic to be the best. Good luck, that's a serious beating! Tony


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## Fsyxxx

My wife gets this stuff called deep blue. It works miricles on sore muscles.


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## Nature Man

Congrats on the wonderful gift! Be sure to make some memories while you are remodeling. Soreness is temporary, thank goodness! Be sure to post a pic or two along the way, and of the final product. Chuck


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## JR Custom Calls

Well here's one of me taking out some built up frustration on the tub I'm removing... Lol. No going back now.

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## kweinert

Yes, a good pair of Lewinskys will really help save your knees. Hope you find yours before buying another set.


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## NYWoodturner

Make this a WIP thread Jonathan - I have one of those to do as well. So far I've managed to procrastinate about 7 years

Reactions: Funny 2


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## woodtickgreg

I did that in my last house. Ibuprofen is my best friend!


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## JR Custom Calls

Getting closer. Forgot to get the tool to take out the drain, gotta run and get it, then I'll be able to pull the remainder of the tub out.


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## Kevin

Mike1950 said:


> I like the ben gay comment- been there.....



Really? Well, I never been gay but I don't hold it against you.

Reactions: Funny 8


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## DKMD

Kevin said:


> Really? Well, I never been gay but I don't hold it against you.



I'm getting slow... You beat me by a few minutes.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Tony

DKMD said:


> I'm getting slow... You beat me by a few minutes.



I'm getting old, I didn't even catch it until Kevin said something Doc!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Schroedc

When you put in the new tub, Sounds goofy but pack the open space around the tub with fiberglass insulation. The bath water stays hotter longer and the missus stays happier while she soaks.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Kevin

Schroedc said:


> When you put in the new tub, Sounds goofy but pack the open space around the tub with fiberglass insulation. The bath water stays hotter longer and the missus stays happier while she soaks.



I foamed ours inside. Back then I had a Graco E-20 foam reactor. Wish I had not sold it.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## JR Custom Calls

Schroedc said:


> When you put in the new tub, Sounds goofy but pack the open space around the tub with fiberglass insulation. The bath water stays hotter longer and the missus stays happier while she soaks.


We are putting a shower only back in. I'm going to mortar under it with some kind of special mortar for tubs and showers, then tile up the walls after I put backer board up. First thing I have to do is relocate the plumbing a bit. I have to move the faucet up and a little to the right so it will be centered.

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## JR Custom Calls

Oh and here's where I'm at now. Might get the new base in today if I'm lucky. Just gotta move the drain a little and it'll be ready.

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## Mike1950

Plumbing is always fun!! Right up there with a root canal !!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## woodtickgreg

Nice progress. Get rid of that pvc water pipe! Geeze I hate that stuff.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## JR Custom Calls

woodtickgreg said:


> Nice progress. Get rid of that pvc water pipe! Geeze I hate that stuff.


Easier said than done haha. House was built in 2007... They didn't go above and beyond for sure. Weird thing is they cut corners to save $$ but I noticed that the insulation in the wall behind the tub is for 24" centers, yet obviously studs are 16". I guess they used insulation for floors instead. Not worth messing with it but I know it's not as good as the proper width would be


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## Kevin

JR Custom Calls said:


> the insulation in the wall behind the tub is for 24" centers, yet obviously studs are 16"



I noticed it but didn't say anything because it's not on an outside wall (or is it?) but fiberglass insulation values drop precipitously when the fibers are compressed like that. It is pretty drastic. Proper insulation installation is one of the most overlooked aspects of home building. It is vitally important to allow the insulation to expand to the engineered thickness (that's why the wall cavity thickness is stamped right on the batts) and that the vapor barrier is meticulously layered over the studs. That installation was done by someone that doesn't realize how important it is, or just didn't care.

And of course, if that is an interior wall like I am guessing (nothing to go on just a hunch) the db protection is similarly diminished.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## JR Custom Calls

@Kevin it's an exterior wall. Our house is in a neighborhood of 'cookie cutter' homes. They have like 6 floor plans available for each street, with streets having various price ranges. Our house is actually supposed to be on the next street back, but because of the layout of our yard, they convinced them to put it on this one. It's about 300 sq ft bigger than the rest on ours, but one of the smaller for the ritzy street behind us. 

Our former neighbors and good friends were the first house here, and the guy was actually a supervisor on some of the projects here. He said they went through contractors like crazy, half the time one would have to come in half way through a project because the other had quit. Lots of corners cut... But I couldn't believe they did this. It's not the same downstairs, at least what I've seen. We had to cut a hole in a closet to make sure our spigot hadn't froze and the insulation was installed properly. No sense in trying to fix this though, as there's no way we could do anything outside of this 5' wide section, and it'd be pointless.


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## Kevin

JR Custom Calls said:


> No sense in trying to fix this though, as there's no way we could do anything outside of this 5' wide section, and it'd be pointless.



I'm not sure what you mean there. Pull the batts, turn them paper faced down on your garage floor, cut them to 15 x 93 leaving the paper barrier (easy to do with the right amount of pressure on the utility knife or even use scissors) then reinstall in the wall cavities. You can even staple two sheets horizontally of 4' wide contractors paper the length of the run to help with the moisture barrier. It's worth the effort even on such a small run. ESPECIALLY since it is an exterior wall.


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## JR Custom Calls

Kevin said:


> I'm not sure what you mean there. Pull the batts, turn them paper faced down on your garage floor, cut them to 15 x 93 leaving the paper barrier (easy to do with the right amount of pressure on the utility knife or even use scissors) then reinstall in the wall cavities. You can even staple two sheets horizontally of contractors paper the length of the run to help with the moisture barrier. It's worth the effort even on such a small run. ESPECIALLY since it is an exterior wall.


What I meant was that I can see that it's the same way on through in our bedroom, so I assume the whole upstairs is done the same way. I don't know that id get much benefit from only fixing that small area when the entire 1400-1500 sq ft upstairs is likely the same way. Wouldn't you agree?


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## Kevin

JR Custom Calls said:


> What I meant was that I can see that it's the same way on through in our bedroom, so I assume the whole upstairs is done the same way. I don't know that id get much benefit from only fixing that small area when the entire 1400-1500 sq ft upstairs is likely the same way. Wouldn't you agree?



I see what you mean if you're considering the monthly light bill, but when you're in the shower on a day when it is a big fat zero outside, then yes it is worth it. Or at least it would be to this pansy ass Texan while in that shower lol. Seriously, that little space will be easier to warm and last longer once the shower is turned off and the steam dissipates - insulation is THAT important.

Insulation cannot keep the temperature a home one single degree warmer in the winter nor cooler in the summer than what it is outside as I am sure you know, without the "conditioning" (A/C and heat) all it can do is slow the transfer of the heat one way or the other. If the R-value is sufficient, the conditioning system can maintain a derised temperature. The higher the R-value the easier it is on the system to maintain that overall, but yes homes are "spotty" with their efficiency. The most common inefficient area is towrad the eaves in the attic where blown insulation does not penetrate all the way in and much $$$ are lost there in homes with blown insulation. If I can find a picture of how I did mine (we have R65+ in our attic because I got it free from a guy I leased an acerage to for deer) I will show how I did my insulation at the eaves. I used batts then blew it in to them.

Yes, I would take the time to make your shower warmer and cozier even if it will not show up on the light bill and you're right - it won't show up but at least you'll be warm while showering and hoping the contractor who built your house is flipping hamburgers at a greasy spoon somewhere, where he belongs.

Reactions: Like 1 | Great Post 1


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## JR Custom Calls

Ok, you convinced me. I don't mind cold weather all that much, but I despise waking up at 6am on a cold day and freezing butt off in the shower.

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## Mike1950

I agree with @Kevin On the insulation - more is better. Butttttt after taking 100's of hours of building science class's. do Not add a vapor barrier. In the south vs the north- you have to consider where the most days the year cool dry air will be vs warm moist air will be. The dew point- where the moisture condenses is critical. also my shop- and house are super insulated. House has a solid r 10 eps foam on outside. R 21 with 6 inch stds is really r-11 because the studs are r-2.5. shop is 70 on a 100 degree day because the slab-isulated on perimeter is feeding 55 degree heat or cool. insulation is your friend- make good-but proper use of it.....

Reactions: Agree 2


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## JR Custom Calls

Well I know our house is wrapped with tyvek if that means anything. I'll pull the insulation out and use it in my dogs house I need to build. My dad has a couple rolls of r13 I believe (16" for 2x4 walls) that I can stick in there.

For what it's worth, here is a pic of our selections for tile and laminate. Top is shower tile, middle is bathroom floor tile, and bottom is bedroom and hallway laminate.

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## Kevin

I agree Mike. Vapor barrier down here is essential. Remember in your classes (I took them too as part of my HVAC training courses) what purpose the barrier serves. To retard the penetration of moisture transfer. This happens mainly when sharp differences in temperature occur. In your area it happens I know but nothing like where I live and especially where Jon lives. I know you are not telling him that he doesn't need a vapor barrier because he surely does. I just wanted to make it clear to him I know you understand what you are saying.


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## Mike1950

Kevin said:


> I agree Mike. Vapor barrier down here is essential. Remember in your classes (I took them too as part of my HVAC training courses) what purpose the barrier serves. To retard the penetration of moisture transfer. This happens mainly when sharp differences in temperature occur. In your area it happens I know but nothing like where I live and especially where Jon lives. I know you are not telling him that he doesn't need a vapor barrier because he surely does. I just wanted to make it clear to him I know you understand what you are saying.



In my area rules are just backwards of yours our warm moist air is on inside. The rules for this have turned upside down since 1995- southern climate. warm moist air is outside in summer. cold dry air is inside. the dew point CANNOT end up being inside of wall. Especially on an impermeable vapor barrier Most places are still screwing this up badly. Look at litigation that started in NC in late 90's the moved to Seattle. We will eventually move to all insulation being on outside of building shell and dew point will be in that insulation- foam insulation.


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## Kevin

Mike1950 said:


> We will eventually move to all insulation being on outside of building shell and dew point will be in that insulation- foam insulation.



On this we can agree.

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## Kevin

Mike you see where I am coming from though right? He does not have the building of the future. His substrates and veneers and balloon wall construction are not engineered for what you are describing. He doesn't want to knock out walls or reverse engineer them. His best bet is to reinstall the insulation as it was engineered to be installed in the first place. That's my opinion anyway but yes I agree with you 100% about the future of the building industry.


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## HomeBody

If your tub is cast iron you can break it up with a hammer. I did one once. Be careful swinging the hammer though. I was tired from beating my tub and the hammer slipped out of my hand and broke the water closet on the toilet. What a mess! 
Yes, the old wallpaper is out now. Glad to see it gone. Seeing pics of houses with wallpaper now makes me think they are really dated. They look like the 50's.
We eliminated all the carpet in our house in favor of tile and hardwood floors. Furniture, the couch, love seat and chairs will eventually be replaced with leather. By eliminating all the fabric you get rid of so much of the dust. Gary


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## sprucegum

JR Custom Calls said:


> @Kevin it's an exterior wall. Our house is in a neighborhood of 'cookie cutter' homes. They have like 6 floor plans available for each street, with streets having various price ranges. Our house is actually supposed to be on the next street back, but because of the layout of our yard, they convinced them to put it on this one. It's about 300 sq ft bigger than the rest on ours, but one of the smaller for the ritzy street behind us.
> 
> Our former neighbors and good friends were the first house here, and the guy was actually a supervisor on some of the projects here. He said they went through contractors like crazy, half the time one would have to come in half way through a project because the other had quit. Lots of corners cut... But I couldn't believe they did this. It's not the same downstairs, at least what I've seen. We had to cut a hole in a closet to make sure our spigot hadn't froze and the insulation was installed properly. No sense in trying to fix this though, as there's no way we could do anything outside of this 5' wide section, and it'd be pointless.




When I install a tub or shower on an exterior wall I like to put a layer of 1/2" foil faced foam insulation on over the studs. It will up the performance of the fiberglass a bit, serve as a vapor barrier if you tape the seams, and make the unit just a little warmer. Of course if 1/2" makes everything else not fit you may not want to do it. I would definitely install the rite fiberglass or better yet Roxul (not sure about the spelling) but it is a ridged rock wool product that far outperforms fiberglass. Definitely install a vapor barrier.


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## JR Custom Calls

Well I got my plumbing done, replaced the insulation as best I could (couldn't staple the paper backing up at the top where the drywall was still covering), got my backer board up, and got about 1/4 of it tiled. Just need to figure out what to do around the top... My dang tape measure was wrong.

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## Schroedc

JR Custom Calls said:


> ..... Just need to figure out what to do around the top... My dang tape measure was wrong.
> 
> View attachment 94069



Caulk. Lots of Caulk

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kevin

JR Custom Calls said:


> ... Just need to figure out what to do around the top... My dang tape measure was wrong.



I've had some of those defective tapes in the past. Sometimes they are accurate and sometimes they are not.

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## JR Custom Calls

I have decided to put the bullnose up around the top. Originally wasn't going to, but that seems like the easiest way to hide the gap.


Pretty pleased with my progress so far. This is my second time laying tile, and there are a few imperfections, but you really have to look hard to find them.

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## Schroedc

JR Custom Calls said:


> View attachment 94130 I have decided to put the bullnose up around the top. Originally wasn't going to, but that seems like the easiest way to hide the gap.
> 
> 
> Pretty pleased with my progress so far. This is my second time laying tile, and there are a few imperfections, but you really have to look hard to find them.



Does the thinset clean up off the fiberglass pretty easily?

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## JR Custom Calls

Schroedc said:


> Does the thinset clean up off the fiberglass pretty easily?



Yep. My wife got it cleaned off pretty easily... or so it looked. Haha. She knew my back was killing me and volunteered to clean it up. Old undershirt that had holes in it, wetted down, seemed to work just fine.

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## Mr. Peet

Most of the guys I have worked with tape the pan off with plastic, then have an old blanket, sleeping bag or couch cushions in the pan/tub. In case something is dropped or spilled. The grouting phase I could see, easily see, at least shielding with cardboard.

And she cleaned it up, Wow! There might have been a time.... Wow. She cleaned it up. Keeper is the word that comes to mind...

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## JR Custom Calls

Took a break yesterday, wasn't feeling all that hot. Got the tile finished this morning, just have to grout it. Going to start laying backer board on the floor this afternoon. 

Overall, I'm very pleased with the way it turned out. There are a few tiles that pushed out a bit, which sucks, but they're dried in now and aren't coming out.

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## Kevin

Even when you clean the thinset and grout off of the pan, it gets all those micro scratches on it. You can't see them but they make it much harder to keep the pan clean from here on out during normal use - that's the reason you protect the pan not because you want to make that initial post cleanup easier. Make sure to keep the grout off of it.


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## JR Custom Calls

Kevin said:


> Make sure to keep the grout off of it.


After you all said something, I put down a painting canvas thing

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## woodtickgreg

The tile looks nice!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## JR Custom Calls

Making progress.

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## JR Custom Calls

Just when I thought I'd seen it all...


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## JR Custom Calls

But, this is sure a welcomed sign... Chase has decided he wants to pull all the tack strips by himself. And he's doing a pretty dang good job of it, especially for a 6 year old.

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## woodtickgreg

Let me guess, burn holes from a fire so they bondo'd it. Nice to see a youngun learning from his dad.


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## JR Custom Calls

woodtickgreg said:


> Let me guess, burn holes from a fire so they bondo'd it. Nice to see a youngun learning from his dad.


That has to be what it is... I know this house has never had a fire in it... the carpet is original. So they obviously installed this when the house was built. Idiots.


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## woodtickgreg

A plumber probably set the plywood on fire soldering pipes, LOL.


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## JR Custom Calls

woodtickgreg said:


> A plumber probably set the plywood on fire soldering pipes, LOL.


You know... that is RIGHT in front of the washer/dryer/water heater. Of course, the water heater is the only thing in this house with copper pipe. Likely scenario that I hadn't considered.

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## JR Custom Calls

Finally got the shower pretty much done. Just have to hang the shower rod and it'll be ready to shower in. Put the handle on the faucet and the shower head on this evening. I had grouted and sealed the grout earlier this week. Gotta seal the grout on the floor tile and lay new baseboard and quarter round and I'll be done there. Also got most of the hallway done, going to finish it in the morning then move to the bedroom. Shew, this is too much like work.

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## GeorgeS

Very nice! I have that same shower head and handle kit. It has held up well. Lots of people complained about scratching the finish while cleaning but we haven't had any problems. Looks like they filled the burn holes with liquid nails! When I pulled my upstairs hallway carpet to put down hardwood we found 18 cigarette butts, 10 drywall nails and about 3 lbs of drywall dust when we swept the floor. Guess they didn't believe in sweeping before laying carpet!


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## JR Custom Calls

GeorgeS said:


> Very nice! I have that same shower head and handle kit. It has held up well. Lots of people complained about scratching the finish while cleaning but we haven't had any problems. Looks like they filled the burn holes with liquid nails! When I pulled my upstairs hallway carpet to put down hardwood we found 18 cigarette butts, 10 drywall nails and about 3 lbs of drywall dust when we swept the floor. Guess they didn't believe in sweeping before laying carpet!


Haha. We found a bunch of cig butts when we replaced the floor downstairs. 

I still have yet to finish this project haha. Still have to paint the bathroom, put down trim, finish a closet, make a stair tread, and put down 1/4 round


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