# Water Softeners - Any Gurus In The House?



## Kevin (Jun 24, 2013)

I'm just (re-)starting to educate myself on water softening systems. I started a few years ago and just got too overwhelmed to make a decision, put it off, and it fell off the radar. Anyone currently or in the past work for a water company or have been down this road and care to offer some pitfalls/advice? 

We have hard water (obviously) mostly calcium. I need to do another water test because I cannot find the last one but it's a typical rural well water scenario where the water tastes great but is real hard on plumbing and fixtures.


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## NYWoodturner (Jun 24, 2013)

I know what you mean about getting overwhelmed at the choices. I finally ended up just calling Culligan. They did the water testing, and had a few options on how to design the system to take care of our needs. They did all the work, all the clean up and IMO was money well spent.


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## AustinTom (Jun 24, 2013)

Kevin said:


> I'm just (re-)starting to educate myself on water softening systems. I started a few years ago and just got too overwhelmed to make a decision, put it off, and it fell off the radar. Anyone currently or in the past work for a water company or have been down this road and care to offer some pitfalls/advice?
> 
> We have hard water (obviously) mostly calcium. I need to do another water test because I cannot find the last one but it's a typical rural well water scenario where the water tastes great but is real hard on plumbing and fixtures.


I have been down this path but it has been a few years. I found http://www.caitechnologies.com/water-softeners/online-store.htm to be very good and I bought my system from them. Their web site does a good job of education and walking you through the process. It all starts with a water test.


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## FloridaQuacker Game Calls (Jun 24, 2013)

Kevin said:


> .....but is real hard on plumbing and fixtures.



Tell me about it...ruined my plumbing. Dr thinks that what has probably contributed the most to my chronic kidney stones


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## Kevin (Jun 24, 2013)

Tom, thanks for posting that. I found that there's only 3 companies that make the various brands of almost all the parts for the softeners (Autotrol - owned by GE, Fleck, and Clack). Some of the larger companies will not allow you to DIY install nor even sell you filters for changing yourself. Since posting this thread I remembered I saved a folder of links in my bookmarks, and have been reading. I'm pretty certain I'm going to go with a CAI unit. One third to one fifth the price and rated as high or higher by users as the other high priced pro-install-only units.


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## TimR (Jun 24, 2013)

Not sure what your well water there is like, but here, it's common to have low ph, acidic, as well which calls for a neutralizer too. Having that essentially runs the water thru a calcium carbonate (I think or something to that effect) bed along with some other minerals to stabilize it, and then to the softener. In my case, I didn't have terribly hard water, but it got more hard going thru the neutralizer. 
Oh...how did I suspect issue with acidity? Blue green stains were common on bathroom porcelain over time, which is actually the copper being leached off the pipes. Oh...the other way I figured it out, I went under house to eliminate a filter in a 3/4" line, to bring it inside house, and found the copper was so thin I could squeeze it with my hands. (30 yr old house at time) I was on the brink of complete failure, so lucky I found it then. The whole house ended up being replumbed with PEX.


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## Mike Jones (Jun 24, 2013)

It has been many, many years ago that I was a "Culligan Man", but....Culligan has (had) several programs that gave homeowners opportunity to try out softened water, and for some, rental programs and tank exchanges with quick couplers that were a snap to use, required no upfront fees, and could be filled with customized media for individual water problems. If such a deal was available to you, it might be worth looking into. I had many customers that loved softened water but hated the backwashing, salt hauling etc., that is associated with softener ownership.

Hope something here is helpful....


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## drycreek (Jun 26, 2013)

I used a system from Intec out ofBaton Rouge, La several years ago and absolutely loved the system. The service from the company was great and they let me install the system my self and walked me through any problems I had which were few the system was simple to install. It was a self flushing system all based on a timer and the medium lasted for a couple of years before needing changed. If you would like their number pm me.


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## DKMD (Jun 26, 2013)

We went the self-installed route a few years back, and it was a PITA... I hated hauling those salt bags, and the unit ultimately ended up failing as all the salt congealed into a solid block of salt. We called Culligan this time... The cost was a little higher than the other, but they'll service it for us at regular intervals. For us, the extra cost eliminated one more thing from the seemingly endless list of crapola associated with maintaining the house.


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## Kevin (Jun 26, 2013)

Larry yes I'd like to check their system out. CAI should be getting my water sample today or tomorrow, then they'll suggest a system for my needs, but I'd like to consider others too. Thanks all who've shared their experiences it helps.


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## Kevin (Jun 26, 2013)

Lol - I hadn't checked my email yet when I made the post above, one of them was my water results. Looks like my water is hard but no major issues with iron etc. I knew that but it's nice to have it official. For those that have worked in the industry, can you tell if the advice given seems right to you? Here is the email:

_Kevin,
Your water analysis results are below:


Hardness – 28 GPG (grains per gallon)
Iron – 0.02 mg/l
pH – 7.1 units
TDS (total dissolved solids) – 362 ppm
Residents – 2
Pipe diameter –1 inch

You have hard water that can easily be corrected with installation of a water softener. No significant amount of iron or manganese was measured. Your pH is fine and requires no correction at this time. Additional information regarding a water softener you can consider is below (and attached).

Water Softener
You can consider a water softener with a capacity of 32,000 grains for this application. You should always select a unit that matches your inlet water supply pipe diameter to maximize flow and minimize pressure drop. In most cases this is either 3/4 or 1 inch. The supply pipe diameter is the one that comes into your home. In the case of municipal water supply, this is the diameter of the pipe immediately after the water meter. If you are on a well, the pipe is the one immediately after your pressure tank (also called an expansion or bladder tank). Do not consider the larger 1" size if your pipe is 3/4" in diameter - only costs more and provides you with no real benefit, however, if you have 1" or 1 1/4" pipe - get a 1" or 1 1/4 inch system.

Any our Autotrol, or Fleck valve/control based water softener systems would be a good choice. We recommend that you install a "metered" system for most efficient operation. The metered systems actually measure the water consumption in your home and regenerate only when necessary. Consider the Autotrol 1 inch “Logix” control, CAI model WS3LM-HC priced at $755.00 delivered available online at http://www.caitechnologies.com/shopping/ShowItem.asp?ItemID=268762-32K.

All water softeners include a by-pass valve, turbulator type distributor, back-up safety float check, round 18x33 brine tank, brine tank grid, high quality ion exchange resin - no hidden extras. Installation is easy if you have any experience with basic plumbing. Installation by a plumber generally costs between $150 and $300.

Warranty is 5 years on the Autotrol valve/control - 5 years on the brine tank and components - 10 years on the resin tank. Free lifetime technical support for the original purchaser - we handle any warranty issues for you. You can also download a copy of the manual for the water softener, as well as installation instructions from our site.

You can view and purchase our water softeners online at http://www.caitechnologies.com - enter the Water Treatment Systems area, and click on the "Metered Water Softener" or “Reverse Osmosis Systems” drop-down under the Online Store section. You can also visit our sister site at http://www.ewateronline.net. Additional information regarding the equipment discussed above is attached.

If you prefer to order by telephone, you can contact us directly at 800-580-3033, 9 AM - 7 PM EST. We accept all major credit cards and most orders ship within one to two business days from receipt of order. Please feel free to let us know if you have any questions by email or telephone, and best regards!

Customer Service
[email protected]
cid:[email protected]
PO Box 126
Frederick, PA 19435-0126 USA

1-800-580-3033
1-215-679-0470
1-215-679-0471 (fax)
_


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## sbwertz (Jun 26, 2013)

Love my Kinetico. It doesn't use a timer cycle. Instead it has a meter and only cycles when a given number of gallons has been used. Had it 15 years and only one service call when a copper pipe got a pinhole leak.


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## AustinTom (Jun 27, 2013)

My system has a meter to measure gallons used to determine when to regenerate. I remember there used to be systems that actually measured hardness but they were more expensive so I opted for a meter. At the least, get a metered system. That way the system won't regenerate when you are on vacation and will regenerate more frequently when you have company.


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## Kevin (Jun 27, 2013)

It looks like I'm gonna be okay to go with the CAI 32K metered system. I was set to get the 48K but they said the 32K will do fine. It has a meter, regenerates only only when necessary, and has great reviews. Everyone has been a big help as usual - thanks again to the WB brain trust.


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## AustinTom (Jun 27, 2013)

Kevin said:


> It looks like I'm gonna be okay to go with the CAI 32K metered system. I was set to get the 48K but they said the 32K will do fine. It has a meter, regenerates only only when necessary, and has great reviews. Everyone has been a big help as usual - thanks again to the WB brain trust.



One final bit of "wisdom". The builders of my house plumbed it for a water softener in the garage. Unfortunately they forgot to put in a drain for the recharge water. I had to run a PVC pipe around the perimeter of the garage, knock a hole through the foundation for the pipe and run the gray water onto my drive. Since sodium chloride is bad for vegetation, I have used potassium chloride which provides some potassium to the plants. Potassium is also better for humans than sodium so there is that benefit too. Unfortunately it is expensive!!


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## Walt (Jun 27, 2013)

I am not exactly a guru, but I like the Pelican systems which are saltless carbon filters. The water will not build up deposits in the house, there is no fee for salt, there is not maintenance other than changing the granulated carbon every 5-10 yrs (depending on usage etc.).


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## Kevin (Jun 27, 2013)

Walt, I'm under the impression from reading, that salt-free systems in general and specifically carbon filter are not recommended for use solely as a softener. Everything I have read says a carbon filkter should be used to remove chemicals and bacteria etc. but that you should run your water through a softener THEN through the carbon system. I don't have a problem with chemicals or bacteria so from my admittedly limited knowledge on this topic, I dom not really want to consider a carbon system as a softener - do I?


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