# Exercising Your Lawful Rights Can Be Dangerous . . .



## Kevin (May 19, 2015)

This cop started out with the normal mindset that 99.9% of all cops who have been hardened by their jobs do, and that is, the citizen is a sheep and the cop is the herder, and the citizen must obey the cop's every command. But this citizen had the balls to exercise his rights and not give out any information he didn't want to. 

However, I take my hat off to this cop for finally coming around and not stepping outside his authority when it looked like he was about to. You could tell his adrenaline was going fairly good but he kept it in check. Police will often tell a citizen they don't have the right to video them and begin screaming something like this:

_"Turn off the camera!!!" 
"But I have a right to video you. 
"No you don't!!! You have the right to do what I tell you to do"._

The courts have ruled time and again that cops can lie to a citizen and it is the duty of the citizen to know the law regardless of what the cops are telling them. But most people, whether they know the law or not, will turn off the camera because when you have 1 or a dozen cops with badges and guns and a truckload of testosterone yelling at you to turn the damn camera off _"or else we'll taze you!!!"_, you're going to be intimidated into turning off the camera. This cop didn't get too carried away, and the citizen stood his ground in a non-threatening, respectful, but firm manner not giving the cop any reason to escalate it. 






We can play what if? all day and I will. What if this guy had been black? Arabian? 

Cops have a tough job. @APBcustoms Austin did this cop use his _discretionary_ authority or did he merely stay within the _limits _of his authority? 

P.S. Austin are you getting into law enforcement because of your initials?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Treecycle Hardwoods (May 19, 2015)

WOW that was in interesting video. It is good to see cops in a decent light. Some are power tripping bastards others are just real people who have a tough job to do. I spose they all have tough job to do regardless of their personality. I wish there were more stories like this out there it would go a long way in healing what the bad ones have done.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ripjack13 (May 19, 2015)

A right not exercised is a right lost.

There's plenty of good cops stories out there. You just have to look for em. The media certainly isn't going to show you. That sort of feel good stuff doesn't bring in ratings ...

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Tclem (May 19, 2015)

This guy was trying to be a jerk. The cop simply asked for id. If you doing nothing wrong tell them your name. We meet people every day and tell them our name. Sure it's your right to open carry. I agree with that 1000000000% but how many people do open carry. The cop was respectful so let him do his job. This guy was looking for a different reaction and didn't get it. Good for the cop.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Kevin (May 19, 2015)

Tony the guy was not trying for a reaction, or if he was, he sure didn't come across that way. He is not obligated to show ID so he was, literally, well within his rights. The cop knew it and the citizen knew it. 

It's like Marc said a right not exercised is a right lost. We libe in a quasi police state because of the mindset that we must do whatever we're told even if we are within our rights not to. 

Just because i don't let a cop search my truck without PC or a search warrant doesn't mean I have sothing to hide. It just means I'm a beligerant claimant of my rights and expect the col to follow the law just as I have to.

FYI a 'beligerant claimant of my rights' is a legal term it has nothing to do with a bad attitude. Both this cop and the citizen were exemplary in the way a cop and law-abiding citizen should deal with one another and neither broke a law. 

You and I can agree to disagree.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Great Post 1


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## APBcustoms (May 19, 2015)

figured id just throw this into the mix


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## Kevin (May 19, 2015)

Tclem said:


> ...but how many people do open carry.



Not nearly enough but it has ZERO to do with thus guy's rights.


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## Kevin (May 19, 2015)

Austin there are idiots on both sides of a badge. That girl was a ditsy one for sure.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tclem (May 19, 2015)

Kevin said:


> Tony the guy was not trying for a reaction, or if he was, he sure didn't come across that way. He is not obligated to show ID so he was, literally, well within his rights. The cop knew it and the citizen knew it.
> 
> It's like Marc said a right not exercised is a right lost. We libe in a quasi police state because of the mindset that we must do whatever we're told even if we are within our rights not to.
> 
> ...


I completely understand and can agree somewhat. My reasoning is that in the day we live in of killing cops I believe that some people try to provoke cops. I also believe that some cops provoke cops. Now since I am 10000% right send me some wood on the house.

Reactions: Funny 1 | +Karma 1


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## Tclem (May 19, 2015)

And the reason for me saying show an id is. Not a lot of people open carry so I believe that "this" cop may have just wanted to check to make sure he wasn't some craEd gunman walking the streets who actually had a warrant out for him.


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## Kevin (May 19, 2015)

I have never wanted to be a cop. But I surely wouldn't want to be one in this day and age. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. It's one of the toughest jobs around espesially in high crime areas.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Tclem (May 19, 2015)

Kevin said:


> I have never wanted to be a cop. But I surely wouldn't want to be one in this day and age. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. It's one of the toughest jobs around espesially in high crime areas.


I went to the same school as one of the cops killed in hattiesburg ms a couple weeks ago.

Reactions: Sincere 1


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## Kevin (May 19, 2015)

Tclem said:


> I went to the same school as one of the cops killed in hattiesburg ms a couple weeks ago.



Sorry to hear it. If I was a cop I'd be terrible at it. Not for power tripping but for being too lenient. I'd either get killed or fired. I could see me sitting across the desk from the Cheif:

_Jaynes you've been with us for 6 months now. You've written 7 traffic citations.

Chief those were extremely flagrant violations that presented a clear danger to others I can justify all 7 easily.

I have doubt. But you've written 327 warnings! We can't pay our bills like this!_

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## ripjack13 (May 19, 2015)

I have 2 brother in laws that are cops...one is a state cop the other a town.
The statie is an awesome cop. The other...well he's a hard ass but a good cop.

I have no problem telling anyone my name, but, that's it. Unless I've done something wrong, you can have my lawyer's name and number.

Open carry is for some, but not me. I like to keep the element of surprise and it also keeps me out of the limelight.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## jmurray (May 20, 2015)

now its been 15 years since i was in school, but i clearly remember that anytime an officer is investigating anyone , he or she has the responsibility to identify who is being questioned, arrested, interviewed. 
could this be one of those laws that differ state to state? 

theoretically .... a patrolman receives a call that a man is walking down ABC street carrying what looks to be an automatic weapon. the officer responds, questions the man, identifies the gun as some POS .22 that is meant to look like an automatic death machine. now your telling me he doesnt have the responsibility to id that man and send him on his way? the Id is for public safety. 5 hours later when a man commits a crime with said .22 and gets away. chief says "hey officer blah blah, the suspect in said crime fits description of the man you questioned hours earlier, whats his name?" the officer has to respond "he wouldnt tell me his name"? i find that ridiculous, dont you have to show your permit to carry card at least? so the officer knows you are carrying legally.

theoretically ..... a officer receives a APB... be on the lookout for a white / black/ yellow / pink man, mid 40s, driving a late 90s gold buick. attempted kidnapping or bank robbery, or solicitation, doesnt matter. He has the right to id 5,000 people that fit the description? 


If you want to be a responsible gun owner, realize guns scare people. your gonna have an occasional run in with a officer. dont be a douche.


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## Kevin (May 20, 2015)

Your opposing (and perhaps misinformed) opinion about open carry doesn't make some a douche. What makes someone a douche is calling someone a douche in a lame attempt to belittle anyone else that doesn't agree with your views.


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## jmurray (May 20, 2015)

hahaha your too easy


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## jmurray (May 20, 2015)

who did i call a douche? who did i try to belittle? i gave an opinion and offered the advice not to be a douche.


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## Kevin (May 20, 2015)

jmurray said:


> hahaha your too easy


Ha ha you may have a point. At least I have enough self-control Not to allow myself to succumb to road rage to the point of chasing people to their homes. That's far more dangerous and irrational than anything being discussed here.


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## jmurray (May 20, 2015)

I feel personally insulted/ threatened when careless drivers inadvertently or purposefully endanger me and my family. But I do have to work on that.

And I only followed one guy home 

And one guy to the gas station

I did show enough restraint not to twist their little douche heads off. But they did know I was not happy


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## Tclem (May 20, 2015)

There is a difference and very often debated topic of
1. Just because someone is open carrying he is not obligated to tell who he is
2. Guy robs a bank, carjacked someone, etc. a description is given ( goofy looking dude from Texas who sells fbe). Cop sees a guy matching that description @Kevin He then has a right to question and ask for id. 
Of course it is a hot topic. Maybe the guy walking down the street with a gun is a mental patient or has a warrant. Cops doesn't know until he finds out who he is but is that infringing on his rights? It's a gray area. I think I'll just tell the cop my name and go on about my business. Or better yet I'll just conceal my weapon and don't bring on any unwanted attention. 
Example. Just because I have the right to argue with my wife doesn't mean I am going to

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kevin (May 20, 2015)

Tclem said:


> There is a difference and very often debated topic of
> 1. Just because someone is open carrying he is not obligated to tell who he is
> 2. Guy robs a bank, carjacked someone, etc. a description is given ( goofy looking dude from Texas who sells fbe). Cop sees a guy matching that description @Kevin He then has a right to question and ask for id.
> Of course it is a hot topic. Maybe the guy walking down the street with a gun is a mental patient or has a warrant. Cops doesn't know until he finds out who he is but is that infringing on his rights? It's a gray area. I think I'll just tell the cop my name and go on about my business. Or better yet I'll just conceal my weapon and don't bring on any unwanted attention.
> Example. Just because I have the right to argue with my wife doesn't mean I am going to



We're probably real close in philosophy. What was almost instantly lost in this thread was my original point which was that since the guy chose to exercise his rights to the fullest, both he and espcially the cophndled it according to the law. I would have given my name too in most cases but I also supportthe citizen's right not to if he doesn't want to.

Some of us (not me ) may think the laws are too lenient in some states re: open carry but it dosn't matr what we think. The law is pretth clear on this issue. The only gray areas are usually soemone's understandind or misinterpretation of laws. That why so many cops ans LEOS get sued in their official and personal capacities and lose. Happens all the time.

Oftentimes the citizen loses too but sotimes it's their life they lose. My whole point was to tip my hat to both of tbem but espcially the cop.


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## Kevin (May 20, 2015)

Well Josh sometimes you're the twister and sometimes you're the twistee. There's always a badder mofo in the valley. Just be areful out there my frind.


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## Tclem (May 20, 2015)

Kevin said:


> We're probably real close in philosophy. What was almost instantly lost in this thread was my original point which was that since the guy chose to exercise his rights to the fullest, both he and espcially the cophndled it according to the law. I would have given my name too in most cases but I also supportthe citizen's right not to if he doesn't want to.
> 
> Some of us (not me ) may think the laws are too lenient in some states re: open carry but it dosn't matr what we think. The law is pretth clear on this issue. The only gray areas are usually soemone's understandind or misinterpretation of laws. That why so many cops ans LEOS get sued in their official and personal capacities and lose. Happens all the time.
> 
> Oftentimes the citizen loses too but sotimes it's their life they lose. My whole point was to tip my hat to both of tbem but espcially the cop.


My whole point was just to argue with you and get your blood pressure up  
We always end up on the same page. Lol


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## ripjack13 (May 20, 2015)

Here's a case we had in CT that made waves...

http://reason.com/blog/2014/10/03/connecticut-bureaucrats-battle-after-man

http://www.nhregister.com/general-news/20130710/judge-dismisses-west-haven-gun-permit-case

And he won.....


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## jmurray (May 20, 2015)

For the record I've never twisted a man's head clean off. Not from lack of trying, they are just really well attached.

@Kevin my Scotch Irish blood refuses to shy away from confrontations when I feel that I'm " in the right". I don't look for ttrouble. my heads still on.


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