# Birdseye Soft Maple



## rob3232 (Apr 16, 2019)

I have only seen it once before, probably twenty years ago. This piece came out of the river bottoms and had pink heartwood. The figure stopped before getting to the heartwood and only appeared on one face of the log which I remember the last time I saw it. Not sure if it is rare or not? Paul @phinds I sent you a piece earlier I think? Mark @Mr. Peet do you have any interest? This is fresh cut.









Rob

Edit: Sorry, pictures looked ok on phone. I can take more if needed.

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## phinds (Apr 16, 2019)

Rob, you have sent me maple before but I'm drawing a blank on remembering any maple with pink heartwood. Looks cool though. I wonder if it's some kind of infection. Mark will likely have a better idea about that than I do.


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## Arn213 (Apr 16, 2019)

Finally, someone other than me has proof that birdseye does occur on soft maple! I have owned several pair only once and it came from Upstate New York about a 7-8 years ago. The pair I had was all cream sapwood. It must have been an anomaly.

Will you be putting some for sale after Paul and Mark gets their share?

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## phinds (Apr 16, 2019)

Arn213 said:


> Finally, someone other than me has proof that birdseye does occur on soft maple!


Several soft maples are known to get bird's eye figure, although it's relatively rare in them


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## Arn213 (Apr 16, 2019)

phinds said:


> Several soft maples are known to get bird's eye figure, although it's relatively rare in them.
> View attachment 164561



The pair of planks I had from Upstate New York was red maple (acer rubrum) and the other pair I had was unique for red maple from the east coast- it had flame pattern and birdseye pattern. 

Just great to see that it physically exist and not just “black and white” typed info. to say it does. I am just glad to see another example that’s all.


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## rob3232 (Apr 16, 2019)

Thanks Paul, I do not think that I sent you any pink heartwood. I’ll look if I can find some from cut offs.

@Arn213 How long of a piece would you like? The best figure is 22” .


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## Arn213 (Apr 16, 2019)

rob3232 said:


> Thanks Paul, I do not think that I sent you any pink heartwood. I’ll look if I can find some from cut offs.
> 
> @Arn213 How long of a piece would you like? The best figure is 22” .



Thank you Rob- don’t want to bypass anybody, so make sure Paul and Mark is taken care off first.

I’ll just send you a pm.....

Thank you.

Arn

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## phinds (Apr 16, 2019)

Thanks Rob. Mark likes his pieces to be an absolute minimum of 1/2" thick by 3" wide by 6" long which is the IWCS sample standard size. Anything close to that is fine w/ me since I have no standards.

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## Mr. Peet (Apr 16, 2019)

rob3232 said:


> I have only seen it once before, probably twenty years ago. This piece came out of the river bottoms and had pink heartwood. The figure stopped before getting to the heartwood and only appeared on one face of the log which I remember the last time I saw it. Not sure if it is rare or not? Paul @phinds I sent you a piece earlier I think? Mark @Mr. Peet do you have any interest? This is fresh cut.
> 
> View attachment 164555
> 
> ...



Yes, yes and yes, I have interest for sure. Love to have from the end that has the sapwood and heartwood. Firecall...


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## Mr. Peet (Apr 17, 2019)

phinds said:


> Several soft maples are known to get bird's eye figure, although it's relatively rare in them.
> View attachment 164561



I had a call last night before being able to let you know of a typo in your post, the Latin name for Cuban mahogany....


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## Mr. Peet (Apr 17, 2019)

@rob3232 

Sorry, had to run. How wide is the board? Is it 4/4? Have a good morning.


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## phinds (Apr 17, 2019)

Mr. Peet said:


> I had a call last night before being able to let you know of a typo in your post, the Latin name for Cuban mahogany....


AACCKK ! Thanks Mark
Obviously not a spelling mistake, just the wrong specific epithet entirely


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## rob3232 (Apr 17, 2019)

@Mr. Peet Yes Mark it is 4/4. I'll let it dry for a week or so before I ship to Paul. Then it's all on him as far as getting it dry enough for pictures etc.As far as heartwood the pieces I have are all sapwood. I was only trying to say that these are not cut from upland red leaf which has a gray/blue colored heartwood. Here is a picture I cut for Arn @Arn213 . You can see the worm track that is more common in the Maple cut from the river bottoms.



 



 

@phinds I will send you a piece of said pink heartwood and you can decide. It does look pink/red when fresh cut but dry??



 

Rob

Reactions: Like 2 | Thank You! 1


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## Mr. Peet (Apr 17, 2019)

rob3232 said:


> @Mr. Peet Yes Mark it is 4/4. I'll let it dry for a week or so before I ship to Paul. Then it's all on him as far as getting it dry enough for pictures etc.As far as heartwood the pieces I have are all sapwood. I was only trying to say that these are not cut from upland red leaf which has a gray/blue colored heartwood. Here is a picture I cut for Arn @Arn213 . You can see the worm track that is more common in the Maple cut from the river bottoms.
> 
> View attachment 164625
> 
> ...



Ok, Rob,

That first picture looked like the top left was a thin (inch plus) white strip, thus my sapwood thought. Thank you.

M.R. Peet...


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## phinds (Apr 17, 2019)

Sounds good to me, Rob. Thanks.


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## Sprung (Apr 17, 2019)

phinds said:


> Rob, you have sent me maple before but I'm drawing a blank on remembering any maple with pink heartwood. Looks cool though. I wonder if it's some kind of infection. Mark will likely have a better idea about that than I do.



Paul, is the pink heartwood uncommon in maple? I can't get more specific as to which exact maple it is I have, other than it being soft maple, but I have about 350BF of maple (well, had that much - I've been using it in projects) that has all of its heartwood as being pink. This maple originated locally to me here in southwest Minnesota, so not terribly far from Rob's neck of the woods.



 

And with a finish it still retains the pink, though a bit more touch of brown tones shine out. Finish is Arm-R-Seal in Satin.



 

This is the counter top area of the kitchen hutch I've been building and, while it doesn't really get direct sunlight, it will get plenty of indirect sunlight and will be interesting to see how the color may change as time goes on.


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## phinds (Apr 17, 2019)

It's very uncommon as far as I know. Mark might know more. I've seen VERY light pink shades in a piece of tapped maple and also in a particularly gummy piece (lots of gum pockets) but nothing as obviously pink as your piece.


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## Sprung (Apr 17, 2019)

phinds said:


> It's very uncommon as far as I know. Mark might know more. I've seen VERY light pink shades in a piece of tapped maple and also in a particularly gummy piece (lots of gum pockets) but nothing as obviously pink as your piece.



Hmm. Interesting to know. I'll look forward to hearing what Mark may have to say on the matter.

This stuff ain't so bad, considering I paid all of $115 for about 350BF!


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## Mr. Peet (Apr 18, 2019)

Sprung said:


> Hmm. Interesting to know. I'll look forward to hearing what Mark may have to say on the matter.
> 
> This stuff ain't so bad, considering I paid all of $115 for about 350BF!



Not knowing species limits my comments a bit, however shades of orange to light red are possible in many maple species, and pink would be in that range. Wood color can be influenced by the metabolic process coded within a genome as well as environmental influences. Limited amounts of spectrometry have been done, to determine elements found within certain woods. Not sure where this research has gone in the last 20 years, as everything has taken a side seat or back seat to DNA genome sequencing.


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## Arn213 (Apr 18, 2019)

Are you folks sure the pinkish tone is the heartwood section and not the sap wood section? I have had a handful of figured red maple from the north east that had a pinkish cast in the sapwood. The pinkish tone to the best of my knowledge is some how related to improper drying process resulting in chemical staining (includes the graying in the core and/or the face grain)- when sugar content and starch content combined chemically with O.

If you look at the boards you posted, you can also see some “graying splotches/bleed outs” which could also be the result of improper drying or ‘slower’ process when the wood was milled/process. I am not saying that is the only attributes that would have caused it as it could also be that log section part was left in the ground for a period of time when it was logged or had sat there for a lengthy of period of time in the forest floor. 

In any case, I processed a lot of maple for guitars. I damn stay away from woods that’s has gray splotches and I always ask to see the end grain and ask for the logger to rip the side edge to see if graying has occur- my experience is that while the outer exterior will be nice and clear sapwood, that could at times ‘not translate’ to the middle core of the lumber being clean and clear that is all sapwood (this much more of an occurrence with 8/4 dimensional maple lumber). If any of you have book-matched an 8/4 lumber that is sapwood clear on the outside and have had the bad luck of seeing ‘grayish’ discoloration in the inside and then carving it where the lowest section at the inside perimeter recurve is 3/16”, you will get a blotchy effect of white sapwood to myriads of gray variegation seeping through (like what you see in Hawaiian Norfolk Pine). You certainly cannot stain that properly as that “muddy ness” will still telegraphed through- well, you can salvage it and use darker dye stains to make it look more visually acceptable. I know a vendor who sells maple at a premium, but won’t guarantee that the inside is equally white as the outside.

By the way, the orange shade you speak of Mr. Peet by my personal experience does occur in western big leaf- never the sapwood section and always the heartwood section. Soft red maple heartwood usually is this cooler gray color tone that can be muddy as it transitions from heart to sapwood.


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## Mr. Peet (Apr 18, 2019)

Arn213 said:


> Are you folks sure the pinkish tone is the heartwood section and not the sap wood section? I have had a handful of figured red maple from the north east that had a pinkish cast in the sapwood. The pinkish tone to the best of my knowledge is some how related to improper drying process resulting in chemical staining (includes the graying in the core and/or the face grain)- when sugar content and starch content combined chemically with O.
> 
> If you look at the boards you posted, you can also see some “graying splotches/bleed outs” which could also be the result of improper drying or ‘slower’ process when the wood was milled/process. I am not saying that is the only attributes that would have caused it as it could also be that log section part was left in the ground for a period of time when it was logged or had sat there for a lengthy of period of time in the forest floor.
> 
> ...



I do not disagree. I was speaking plainly and in general, without species specifics. For sure harvest timing has an influence. I have found that late harvest and summer harvest of 'Sugar maple' results in very testy wood, requiring very clean and sharp tooling. Anything less will scorch, adding to the challenge. I did not discuss steaming either.


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## rob3232 (Apr 25, 2019)

@Arn213 Here are the two pieces that are available. 1 1/8"x 4"x 28". $30 plus actual shipping. The bark is not to deep I hope on the second piece but the best I can do.



 



 



 

Rob


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## Arn213 (Apr 26, 2019)

rob3232 said:


> @Arn213 Here are the two pieces that are available. 1 1/8"x 4"x 28". $30 plus actual shipping. The bark is not to deep I hope on the second piece but the best I can do.
> 
> View attachment 165023
> 
> ...



Thank you Rob, will send you a pm for shipping and question about the bark intrusion/ingrown bark tailing.


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## rob3232 (Apr 26, 2019)

Arn, Here are a couple of pictures for you. Hope this helps?



 



 

Rob

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Arn213 (Apr 30, 2019)

Payment sent, tracking received and item shipped- thank you very much Rob! Arn


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## rob3232 (Apr 30, 2019)

Thanks Arn,
I hope that they work out for you!

Rob


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## phinds (May 1, 2019)

@rob3232 I just got the pieces. Thanks.

The "pink" heartwood now shows just the tiniest hint of pink, MUCH more subdued than what you show above. I'll see how it looks when sanded.

@Mr. Peet Rob included 3 oversized (relative to IWCS) samples of the soft maple with bird's eye. It's rough cut right now but I'll sand down the face grain, get pics, and then put two of them in that box of your stuff that I already have. They are unseasoned and waxed on the ends and I'll leave them that way.

He also sent another chunk of the funky basswood that you can see on my basswood page from his previous donation. I'll cut you a sample sized piece of that as well.

Thanks again, Rob.

Paul

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## Arn213 (May 3, 2019)

rob3232 said:


> Thanks Arn,
> I hope that they work out for you!
> 
> Rob



Package received and all good at my end- thanks again Rob for offering this pair and very much appreciate the smooth transaction!

Arn


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## rob3232 (May 3, 2019)

Thanks guys for letting me know that the packages arrived. I hope it works out for you! @Arn213 , @phinds @Mr. Peet .

Rob


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## Mr. Peet (May 3, 2019)

rob3232 said:


> Thanks guys for letting me know that the packages arrived. I hope it works out for you! @Arn213 , @phinds @Mr. Peet .
> 
> Rob



Paul has not said... if it arrived... but did say it was rough-cut and that he would be sanding and that there was a bonus piece....and...


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## phinds (May 3, 2019)

Mr. Peet said:


> Paul has not said... if it arrived


See the first sentence in post #27


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## Mr. Peet (May 4, 2019)

phinds said:


> See the first sentence in post #27



Correct, you stated "@rob3232 I just got the pieces. Thanks." versus that they "arrived". However, basically the same thing. Sorry, Monty Python humor slipping in...


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## phinds (May 4, 2019)

Mr. Peet said:


> Correct, you stated "@rob3232 I just got the pieces. Thanks." versus that they "arrived". However, basically the same thing. Sorry, Monty Python humor slipping in...


I thought you were kidding but my overly serious side kicked in.

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## Arn213 (May 4, 2019)

@phinds & @Mr. Peet- fyi, per my pinless Wagner moisture meter scanned at the middle section, the 2 boards recently received from Rob has a reading roughly between 25-30 percent moisture content.

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## phinds (Jun 15, 2019)

OK, Rob, here's the cherry maple sanded. All the pink has pretty much disappeared.


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## Mike1950 (Jun 16, 2019)

phinds said:


> Thanks Rob. Mark likes his pieces to be an absolute minimum of 1/2" thick by 3" wide by 6" long which is the IWCS sample standard size. Anything close to that is fine w/ me since I have no standards.



WOW- yer lucky it is fathers day. You left yourself wide open with that last remark.

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## rob3232 (Jun 16, 2019)

Thanks Paul. I guess after it oxidizes it turns more of a reddish brown. 



phinds said:


> OK, Rob, here's the cherry sanded.


 did you mean to say maple instead of cherry?


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## phinds (Jun 16, 2019)

rob3232 said:


> Thanks Paul. I guess after it oxidizes it turns more of a reddish brown.
> 
> did you mean to say maple instead of cherry?


No, that was the cherry piece, from your post #13. The BE maple had no hint of red when I got it.


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## rob3232 (Jun 16, 2019)

Paul,
Sorry for the confusion. In post #13 I posted a picture of pink heartwood soft maple from river bottoms. The cherry I sent was indented grain figure?
I made a shelf years ago with the soft maple and many people think it is cherry.


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## phinds (Jun 16, 2019)

Oh. Thanks. I hadn't even looked at the end grain so didn't realize it wasn't cherry. Now that I look, it's obvious that it's not cherry.

When you say "The cherry I sent was indented grain figure?" --- now I'm really confused. I got, near as I can recall, 3 pieces of B.E. soft maple and the one piece that I thought was cherry.

EDIT: I also got the funky basswood (with the little dots)

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## Mr. Peet (Jun 17, 2019)

phinds said:


> Oh. Thanks. I hadn't even looked at the end grain so didn't realize it wasn't cherry. Now that I look, it's obvious that it's not cherry.
> 
> When you say "The cherry I sent was indented grain figure?" --- now I'm really confused. I got, near as I can recall, 3 pieces of B.E. soft maple and the one piece that I thought was cherry.
> 
> EDIT: I also got the funky basswood (with the little dots)



Rob sent the indented cherry to me. I dropped it off with you and I think I already got it back. I'm out today so can't look for a while.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## phinds (Jun 17, 2019)

Mr. Peet said:


> Rob sent the indented cherry to me. I dropped it off with you and I think I already got it back. I'm out today so can't look for a while.


Ah ... thanks. That explains that. I don't currently have any cherry from you so yeah you must have gotten it back if you did drop it off.


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