# Learning to use the chainsaw



## kweinert (Aug 27, 2012)

I'm not sure if this post should go here or in the equipment forum. Mods, if I've misplaced this feel free to move it.

So, someone in another thread told me I was using the chainsaw incorrectly (I have a Poulan Pro 42cc 18".) Turns out they were correct, but using it correctly has caused me other issues.

The problem that they corrected was me cutting with the grain - I wasn't, I was only getting small chips instead of curls. So on Friday when I cut up the hackberry I tried using their advice. It made a big difference in a couple of ways. At first the cut was much better - faster and producing curls. Then it got slower. Much slower.

I noticed the discharge chute was full of curls. So I cleaned it out. A couple of seconds later I cleaned it out again. A couple of seconds later I cleaned it out again. (There's a pattern developing here.)

What I hadn't realized is that those curls had impacted themselves up inside the chute to the extent that the bar oil was being blocked. Cutting wasn't happening very good at all. I did eventually realize what was happening and I took off that mechanism and cleaned everything out.

Cuts still weren't working very well, so I put the new chain on (it came with two) just to test to see if that was the issue. It was (and now I get to learn how to sharpen my chain  )

However, that whole 'fill up the chute' thing is a real pain and it's very difficult to get much work done when you can cut for 4 or 5 seconds and then take 10 seconds to clean out the chute.

Is this normal or am I about to learn something else about chainsawing from one of you nice folks that's willing to share your hard earned knowledge?

I do appreciate any info you can pass along.

Thanks.

Ken


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## Kevin (Aug 27, 2012)

Making french fries is because you're ripping with crosscut chain. If you want to stop making fries you need to buy ripping chain or make it by modifying your crosscut chain. You will get many different opinions as to the best ripping profiles and it boils down to what you think works best for you as you get more experience under your belt. I use a variety of profiles depending on my need. 

Ripping chain will give you a smoother cut than using a crosscut chain for it. the firewood cutters' equivalent to ripping is called "noodling" and it's where they rip huge short logs in half with their saws (using their standard crosscut chain) because they are too big to place on their splitters by hand. They call them noodles we millers call them fries. Same basic thing. 

What makes a ripping chain, ripping chain, is namely the top angle of the cutters. Crosscut chain is typically around 30° where ripping angle is between 0° to 10°. You will make dust with ripping chain when you rip with it, and make sure you never use ripping chain to do a plunge cut because the potential for kickback is extreme and highly forceful. 

If I had to choose one setup for ripping in any type of wood (speaking mostly in terms of density) I prefer modifying my own chisel chain to 5° to 10° top angle with a 40° cutter angle and every other tooth I grind to 6° for use as a raker (clearing away the sawdust for the cutter coming in right behind it). I should also add that I grind my depth gauges to 0.035+


However, I also rip smaller stuff with regular round chisel crosscut chain because my saw has the torque and I have a wide enough planer to smooth that really rough stuff down cause by milling with crosscut chain. The reason your saw is bogging down is because it is way too small. There's no other way to say it. That saw is designed for light homeowner use not milling.

The fact is, when it comes to milling with a chainsaw nothing can replace torque. Small saws will never be able to satisfy the demand placed on them no matter what type of chain nor what kind of profiles you use. 

To get you by with that saw, I advise skip chain with a 10° top plate so you'll be making powder not fries or noodles. That saw cannot handle the build up of noodles in the chute as you well know. That chain I just advised takes a little longer than crosscut chain does but produces a smoother surface and will be much easier on your saw, though your saw may not have a very bright future used as a mill saw no matter what chain set up you use. 


Probably not what you wanted to hear but it's my honest opinion. 

:i_dunno:


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## kweinert (Aug 27, 2012)

Kevin said:


> Making french fries is because you're ripping with crosscut chain. If you want to stop making fries you need to buy ripping chain or make it by modifying your crosscut chain. You will get many different opinions as to the best ripping profiles and it boils down to what you think works best for you as you get more experience under your belt. I use a variety of profiles depending on my need.
> 
> Ripping chain will give you a smoother cut than using a crosscut chain for it. the firewood cutters' equivalent to ripping is called "noodling" and it's where they rip huge short logs in half with their saws (using their standard crosscut chain) because they are too big to place on their splitters by hand. They call them noodles we millers call them fries. Same basic thing.
> 
> ...



You know, at the time it seemed like a good idea. I just didn't realize how much I'd actually end up using it and how I'd end up using it.

Where is a good place to look for the chain you're recommending?

And I may be looking over the chainsaw advice threads that I've seen to try to determine what my next one will be :)

Thanks.


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## Kevin (Aug 27, 2012)

kweinert said:


> You know, at the time it seemed like a good idea.





kweinert said:


> *You would think by now I have made every single possible mistake there is to make, but I am pretty resourceful.*



 That wasn't very nice I'm sorry. 

:lolol:

I'll try to elaborate more when I have more time. If *you* have some time, register at arboristsite.com and just use the search function and read, read, read. Don't ask any questions just read and lurk. There's tons and tons of good and some bad, but the bad rarely goes unchallenged and by the end of the thread you'll have a good idea of what was what. 

Really, it's one of the best resources out there for learning all kinds of basics about anything to do with a chainsaw and even a lot of stuff beyond basic. Just read with a discerning eye and be patient. Understanding chain alone is a very wide subject and takes a long time to become knowledgeable in. Prepare for a learning process not quick answers. Heck you know that by now all you've been through haven't we all.


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## woodtickgreg (Aug 27, 2012)

Ken, first thing you need to know is what size chain you have, might be marked on the bar, might saw something like 3/8 .050 and then the number of links. Once you know what size chain you have contact bailey's for a catalogue or order on line, you can also call them and speak to a real person. This will be the easiest way to get a ripping chain if you don't feel comfortable with regrinding or fileing a chain. you could also take your dull chain in and have it reground to the above mentioned angles at a saw shop. I call the long chips spaghetti! Also be aware that a ripping chain will be very slow. If you plan to do alot of this type of cutting than a ripping chain is probably the way to go, if not then just slow your feed down and clear the chips from the saw often.


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## kweinert (Aug 27, 2012)

Given what you guys have told me, is it an option to keep the chain sharp but instead of ripping the logs, go back to an end grain cut?

I think that the post that got me going down this path may have had as much to do with the sharpness of the blade as anything else.

So I will need to pick up a chain sharpening kit so I can sharpen the first one (and the more recent one when the time comes), but given the saw that I have is the best I can do is to cut slower (non-optimally) until such time as I can get a larger saw that's really meant to do what I'm doing?

I'll look at Bailey's (I did take a look at the site but I think that at the moment I don't have enough context to make a reasonable decision based on what I understand)

I guess I must have missed the "CAUTION - May Promote Addictive Behavior" sticker when I started all this stuff.


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## woodtickgreg (Aug 27, 2012)

kweinert said:


> Given what you guys have told me, is it an option to keep the chain sharp but instead of ripping the logs, go back to an end grain cut?
> 
> I think that the post that got me going down this path may have had as much to do with the sharpness of the blade as anything else.
> 
> ...


Ken, you do want to learn to file your own chains, after you do it a few times you will get faster at it. It allows you to always have a sharp chain, and that's safer. I see no reason why you cant continue to cut end grain as long as you can hold the work securely and safely. Do what works for you! If you only occasionally cut logs like this that's ok, if you are going to do it more often, get a ripping chain.


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## dean jordan (Aug 30, 2012)

Hi Ken I was the one who started you down this path. yes the noodling is a pain.I use a husky with a 32in bar. I use a skip tooth chain as Kevin reccomended.I usually just stop and clear the mess before it affects the cutting it is still easier and more effecient than cutting end grain. one thing you can do is ind an angle that doesnt jam with chips as much. a ripping cain is good but the non pro users like us dont like to be changing chains a lot. The ripping chain doesnt cut across the log as well either which is probably half my cutting. Hope this isnt to confusing


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## kweinert (Aug 30, 2012)

dean jordan said:


> Hi Ken I was the one who started you down this path. yes the noodling is a pain.I use a husky with a 32in bar. I use a skip tooth chain as Kevin reccomended.I usually just stop and clear the mess before it affects the cutting it is still easier and more effecient than cutting end grain. one thing you can do is ind an angle that doesnt jam with chips as much. a ripping cain is good but the non pro users like us dont like to be changing chains a lot. The ripping chain doesnt cut across the log as well either which is probably half my cutting. Hope this isnt to confusing



On this saw the 'stop and clear the mess' step would happen about every 10 seconds (or less), at least with the hackberry I was cutting. That makes it pretty unusable.

Maybe I should mod the saw to put a bigger chute on it :) (not)


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## Kevin (Aug 30, 2012)

Ken,

Start watching CL everyday. Make it a daily habit and you'll nab a saw eventually well worth the money. You could also put in want ads and also the barter section. But make your mind up right now what's the minimum size saw you'll buy. I would not suggest anything lower than 80cc and frankly I don't even like that, but you can get by with a saw that size no more milling than you'll be doing (yeah right). 

Okay maybe nothing less than 90cc.  

There really is a big difference in the powerband between 80cc and 90cc but 80 will get you by IMO. I know there's guys milling with 372s out there but I just couldn't bring myself to do that to as fine a saw as that. Milling is hard on saws. 372XP = 70cc to 75cc depending on particular model and year.


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## kweinert (Aug 30, 2012)

Kevin said:


> Ken,
> 
> Start watching CL everyday. Make it a daily habit and you'll nab a saw eventually well worth the money. You could also put in want ads and also the barter section. But make your mind up right now what's the minimum size saw you'll buy. I would not suggest anything lower than 80cc and frankly I don't even like that, but you can get by with a saw that size no more milling than you'll be doing (yeah right).
> 
> ...




I have an RSS feed for the two local CL areas. Any idea of what would be a fair/reasonable price for a saw in that vicinity? I saw a 575xp for $525. On the arborist site I also see that 575s might have a bad reputation though.


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## Kevin (Aug 30, 2012)

I don't really know much about the 575 but I've heard a lot of good about it. Almost every saw has its detractors. It got a lot of bad press when it first came out because I think it's only available as an AT (auto tune) saw - no screws to adjust on the carb. Old school guys like myself don't like that. It takes a while for us to come around, but the AT saws are starting to convince me they be on to something. 


Remember all the pilots back in the 70s saying "_You won't catch me dead flying an aircraft that tries to land itself"_ now, with a few notable tragic exceptions, auto-pilots save lives and pilots rely on them heavily. 


But at 75cc it's too small anyway IMO.


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