# CLARO walnut



## Mike1950 (Feb 9, 2014)

We started a discussion in Michael's thread about claro walnut. Pretty much a professional thread theft I might add.  I do understand the definition stated for claro walnut.( Kevin and Toms definition) Tom posted some great pictures of a claro tree and hopefully he will add here. In my neck of the woods walnuts are only yard or street trees. I have not seen a grafted one here. we have both english and black, mostly black.
Question 1. If the claro is from the graft down- how do we get 10' claro boards for sale.
2. lots of what I see advertised as claro( here) is really stump wood- at least that is what I would call it. Very cool looking but not claro by definition unless it is the stump under graft.
3. does anybody have a way of really telling if it is claro or are we at the mercy of the sellers description. seems to me you would need to have piece with graft to really define.

PS. I have added a like to Paul's (Phinds) site- Warning protect your keyboard- I drooled all over mine- INCREDIBLE pictures Paul. http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/walnut, claro.htm


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## barry richardson (Feb 9, 2014)

Interesting, I thought the grafted ones had black walnut roots, and the upper part was claro walnut...


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## Mike1950 (Feb 9, 2014)

barry richardson said:


> Interesting, I thought the grafted ones had black walnut roots, and the upper part was claro walnut...




This is why I started thread- I think there is confusion. hell i know I am but maybe that is just  normal!!!! Hopefully some mod will come along and move our discussion here. a couple more links- beware- I would have to mortgage my house to buy some of this http://www.ca-walnutdesigns.com/claro.htm http://www.nwtimber.com/ http://www.gobywalnut.com/

PS. Do not be bashful- chime in........


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## barry richardson (Feb 9, 2014)

After a bit of research, looks like I'm wrong. From a couple of sources I found, it looks like Claro (california walnut) is what is used as rootstock for english walnut. Since california walnut is native, I imagine trees harvested from the woods are where you get claro planks from, and not from grafted trees... Although I bet it probably gets mixed up quite a bit and mislabeled as claro, it seems the trunks of grafted trees are actually english walnut...

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## manbuckwal (Feb 9, 2014)

California’s first walnut trees and orchards were planted during the Spanish mission period (around 1800), using seedlings of early varieties of Persian or English walnut (Juglans regia) chosen for their superior growth and nut quality. Since the 1890s, walnut trees in California have been propagated by grafting or budding desired cultivars onto rootstocks chosen for their adapta- tion to different physical, chemical or biological soil conditions at individual orchard sites. From the early to mid- 20th century, seedlings of Northern California black walnut (Juglans hindsii) were used as rootstocks because they grew vigorously and were more tolerant of saline and saturated soil and more resistant to soil-borne pests than English walnut seedlings.
http://ucanr.edu/datastoreFiles/391-51.pdf

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## manbuckwal (Feb 9, 2014)

I have seen a wide variety in the height of the graft line. This pics shows a lot of variety . I saw an entire orchard off the 99 that had high graft lines like the one pictured in the forefront here.

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## manbuckwal (Feb 9, 2014)

Well Mike, you have me on a hunt lol . @Mike1950 
http://www.npsoregon.org/kalmiopsis/kalmiopsis15/callahan.pdf

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## Mike1950 (Feb 9, 2014)

Thanks Tom- very good info.


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## manbuckwal (Feb 9, 2014)

barry richardson said:


> After a bit of research, looks like I'm wrong. From a couple of sources I found, it looks like Claro (california walnut) is what is used as rootstock for english walnut. Since california walnut is native, I imagine trees harvested from the woods are where you get claro planks from, and not from grafted trees... Although I bet it probably gets mixed up quite a bit and mislabeled as claro, it seems the trunks of grafted trees are actually english walnut...


Actually it is/was California Black Walnut(juglans californica) that is/was supposedly used for the root stock, of which (juglans regia) English or Persian walnut was grafted into it. @barry richardson

A small piece of what I cut

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## phinds (Feb 9, 2014)

Lots of good info, Tom. Thanks.


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## manbuckwal (Feb 10, 2014)

A lil more info from gunstock producer
*English Walnut family of stock wood
English thin-shelled Walnut is the most highly prized and most sought after gunstock wood. It is also the most expensive, with some extra fine rifle blanks selling for enormous sums of money.Juglans Regia is it's name (Regia is the Latin word for royal.) It is also called French walnut, Italian walnut, or European walnut. This species probably originated in the Far East or in Asia Minor, and was brought to Persia-where it was later found and introduced to Rome by Roman conquering armies. Eventually it spread throughout Europe. Its wood has good firm texture, and it usually has small pores. It has white bark, produces a sweet tasting nut (the ones commonly found at the grocery store, or in pastry). English Walnut grows an outside sap ring. Within this sap ring is a barely distinguishable ring of light (or bland) heartwood which has not yet darkened, and within the light heartwood ring is the dark heartwood core. The dark heartwood is the center of the tree. This dark heartwood area has the 'Mineral Streak', or what is sometimes called 'Water Marks'. These are the dark lines that give English walnut much of its appeal. We do not have complete scientific understanding of what causes mineral streak in hardwoods; ferrous minerals in the soil may contribute to its occurrence. Mineral streaking occurs in all walnut. Some times in a variety of colors. However, in English walnut, the amount of mineral streaking determines the grade-the more streaking, the higher the grade. English thin-shelled Walnut grows throughout the world. It varies somewhat in appearance, color and texture from one region to another. Variables such as climate, soil, husbandry, etc. will affect the wood. The origin of the wood will in some cases determine if the wood has a different name. So we have walnut referred to as Circassian, Moroccan, Turkish, East-Indian, etc.. Technically speaking though, it's all Juglans Regia, the English thin-shell walnut.
Graft line
This is a name applied to blanks that show a graft line. This would be a piece of wood that is Claro at one end and English at the other, with a distinct graft line at the juncture of the two species. This is a novel feature, for sure, but some very interesting custom gunstocks are made from it. There is no loss of wood strength at the graft juncture, but such blanks are often graded as utility because of the abrupt color juxtaposition. Some prefer this wood finished in its natural tone, but for those who do not; the color contrast can be remedied with wood stain. Graft line is seldom graded as fancy walnut even if it has fancy figure. Graft line is some times mistakenly called "Paradox" walnut because of the species contradiction. This is just mistaken terminology, because "Paradox" is a term most commonly applied to Bastogne walnut. Bastogne is a true hybrid-a distinct type of walnut, not a grafted combination.*

*Bastogne: There is a walnut called "Bastogne", taken from the French word for what you can probably guess. This walnut is also called "Paradox" or "the Paradox Tree". It is generally described as a cross between English walnut and Claro walnut. That statement is mostly true, but a more accurate description might be that Bastogne is a hybrid that results from the cross-pollinization of a tree in the English thin-shelled family with a tree of some other species of walnut. So the stock wood referred to as Bastogne is not all the same. It varies greatly in color, texture, grain, density, and weight. Mostly, though it is known for its density and weight. It is strong, and it is sturdy. It tends to be prized by big bore enthusiasts- strong enough to stand up to recoil, and heavy enough to slow recoil torque. For similar reasons some trap shooters prefer this wood.*

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## Mike1950 (Feb 10, 2014)

Thanks Tom. Seems to me that Calif black walnut gets it's name changed to claro once it is grafted. I will plane another board or 2 this week so we can compare some colors- 3 trees- same town.


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## manbuckwal (Feb 10, 2014)

Mike1950 said:


> Thanks Tom. Seems to me that Calif black walnut gets it's name changed to claro once it is grafted. I will plane another board or 2 this week so we can compare some colors- 3 trees- same town.


Sweet ! Look forward to that . You may need to ship them to me for closer inspection


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## manbuckwal (Feb 10, 2014)

Mike1950 said:


> Thanks Tom. Seems to me that Calif black walnut gets it's name changed to claro once it is grafted. I will plane another board or 2 this week so we can compare some colors- 3 trees- same town.


Hmmmm after reading this I get the feeling that Juglans Hindsii ( referred to as both Hinds walnut and California Black walnut ) is actually considered Claro Walnut . That being said, I'm guessing that the grafting of English (Juglans Regia) with Juglans Hindsii just creates more radical figure in the stump/graft, which would still be considered Claro ?

*Black Walnut family of stock wood
There is a species of walnut named Juglans Negra. This species grows throughout the United States. It is principally concentrated in the Eastern U.S. and the Midwest. However, there is a sprinkling of this walnut in the arid West, and there is a moderate amount found along the West Coast. Junglans Negra is commonly referred to as eastern black walnut. It is also called American walnut, or Black walnut, and here in California it is often called California Black. This species of walnut has dark brown bark. It grows with brown heartwood and a narrow outside sap wood ring. It produces strong sharp tasting nuts, and it grows wild; i.e. it is not a domesticated orchard tree. It is well regarded as a suitable stock wood, and is the gun stock wood most commonly used for factory issue stocks of American made firearms. This species produces a moderate amount of fancy wood, and a predominant amount of plain wood. There is another species called Claro Walnut (Juglans Hindsii). This kind of walnut originated in the north central part of California and today it is found growing throughout the West Coast of the United States-from British Columbia, Canada, all the way to Mexico. Some of it grows wild like other trees, but mostly it is domesticated-to the extent that it is the most common rootstock found in walnut orchards.*


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## Mike1950 (Feb 10, 2014)

Thus Tom we are back where we started- Multiple definitions for Claro. makes for sorta dicey for the buyer but good for sellers willing to accommodate the buyers. PS that statement is not intended for anyone here- just what I am seeing in my neck of the woods.
I will get pictures of walnut up here that look like Barb's claro bowl- that were not grafted trees - nor been to Ca.

2nd PS Thanks this thread is VERY informational.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## manbuckwal (Feb 10, 2014)

Mike1950 said:


> Thus Tom we are back where we started- Multiple definitions for Claro. makes for sorta dicey for the buyer but good for sellers willing to accommodate the buyers. PS that statement is not intended for anyone here- just what I am seeing in my neck of the woods.
> I will get pictures of walnut up here that look like Barb's claro bowl- that were not grafted trees - nor been to Ca.
> 
> 2nd PS Thanks this thread is VERY informational.


True That ! And that's why unless I cut it myself from the actual tree, I won't call it Claro.

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## PhoenixWoodDesigns (Feb 10, 2014)

Mike, why must you taunt me with all the links and pics? Are you TRYING to break my spirit? :)


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## Mike1950 (Feb 10, 2014)

PhoenixWoodDesigns said:


> Mike, why must you taunt me with all the links and pics? Are you TRYING to break my spirit? :)



Just look at my weather report if you want to feel better. Those 3 links have absolutely incredible wood but The PRICES!!!!!!! It would cost more for the wood then the box was worth. I will have to stick to my crummy inland NW walnut and geetar rejects. 

cruumy plain  walnut



 



 



 



 

No color or figure- pretty drab none claro stuff............

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## manbuckwal (Feb 10, 2014)

Elegant all the way !!!


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## Mike1950 (Feb 10, 2014)

More in the rough form- well rough or planed. some of the same wood. None over 15"- I have to cut down the big boards to get through the planer-19-21" wide. The one rough one is a series of about 15- big tree- made bedroom furniture from some of it- Night stand is made out of it. The white sap - I think is english- just a qualified guess though. the first is missouri black walnut- same as bench I am building- quite a difference. All just for reference. Not counting eastern 3/4 different trees- same city. Fertile mild flood plain trees. Enjoy

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## Mike1950 (Feb 10, 2014)

Sorry I keep planing them but I just cannot get the damn wrinkles out of this stuff









This last board is from SW washington- I know very little about it except it was a farmyard tree- close to the columbia - I bet it is one of those hiney black walnuts.






lots of different color and figure- grown a few miles or less from each other. Could I pass it off as claro- might want to think about that statement before you buy high priced wood from an unknown seller.................... And that statement is directed at absolutely nobody on WB- just an  thoughts- take it or leave it..... PS- these boards were by no means specially picked other to make them from different trees- top of the pile.......

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## Sprung (Feb 10, 2014)

This thread, as well as the thread this one spilled over from, have been very informative on something I knew nothing about! Definitely learned something in them!

I also know this: The next shipment of wood that I buy from Mike isn't likely to be some of his famous BLM, but most likely some of his walnut! WOW, that's some great looking stuff!


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## manbuckwal (Feb 10, 2014)

Sprung said:


> This thread, as well as the thread this one spilled over from, have been very informative on something I knew nothing about! Definitely learned something in them!
> 
> I also know this: The next shipment of wood that I buy from Mike isn't likely to be some of his famous BLM, but most likely some of his walnut! WOW, that's some great looking stuff!


Good luck with that Matt !!!! He hoards his walnut, and who can blame him

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## Mike1950 (Feb 10, 2014)

manbuckwal said:


> Good luck with that Matt !!!! He hoards his walnut, and who can blame him




always pickin on the mild meek quiet .....

Tom see my point- a lot of color- figure. I did not see these trees standing but I have not seen a graft as you pictured here. all that said- you sure have some nice walnut there........ what ever it is called.


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## SENC (Feb 10, 2014)

Ship it to me, Mike, I'll see what I cqn do about those dastardly wrinkles for you.

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## Mike1950 (Feb 10, 2014)

SENC said:


> Ship it to me, Mike, I'll see what I cqn do about those dastardly wrinkles for you.



No bother- I have a large hammer- I can flatten them out!!!!


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## manbuckwal (Feb 12, 2014)

Not much difference

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## manbuckwal (Feb 12, 2014)

Oops missed one pic

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## Mike1950 (Feb 12, 2014)

I have my own theories- so here goes- I think the climate/soil/ ? here in the west affects how walnut grows and colors. We hear about it being a Ca. thing because you have giant orchards of walnut. We on the other hand have a few yard trees. the color and figure is very much the same. Sure do not see the same east of the rockies.


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## phinds (Feb 12, 2014)

Mike1950 said:


> I have my own theories- so here goes- I think the climate/soil/ ? here in the west affects how walnut grows and colors. We hear about it being a Ca. thing because you have giant orchards of walnut. We on the other hand have a few yard trees. the color and figure is very much the same. Sure do not see the same east of the rockies.



Yep, the minerals in the soil are where a lot of the color comes from when you see those variegated-color domestic woods. It's also true of some of the exotics although in some of those (such as East Indian rosewood and cocobolo) the color variety in a single piece can be so great that I think there has to be something else going on as well.

The climate affects how the tree is shaped, and the density and thickness of the growth rings, but I think it has less affect on the color.

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