# why are bandmills built small??



## jimmyjames (May 6, 2013)

All of the commercial mill like woodmizer and timber king are limited to about a 30" wide cut, now that being said a lot of logs need quartered too saw or not sawn at all, is there a reason why they aren't built to handle say a 40" cut and a 50"+ log? The blade will be longer yes but what are the drawbacks? I was contemplating buying a St IHL 880 and an Alaskan mill but for the price I can just build a band mill hydraulically powered off of our tractor, and building one I would want to cut wider then 30", I'd like to have a 40" cut or better. The only problem I see is blade walk but if built ridgid enough I would think enough blade tension could be applied to overcome the blade walk and also not every log will be that big and the blade guide would be in further


----------



## Kevin (May 6, 2013)

Steve Cross built his own for that very reason. He's got an old south dialect but don't let it fool you, he's a sawmill genius IMO. I used to pick his brain when I was considering building a wide bandmill like he has.

Reactions: Way Cool 1


----------



## jimmyjames (May 6, 2013)

Dang that's quite the contraption!


----------



## jimmyjames (May 6, 2013)

I've been following a few band mill builds on the net that are hydraulic powered off of a tractor or skid steer, I think I may try this out, I have most of the steel laying around already, the biggest expense will be the band wheels and the hydraulic hoses and fittings. On the wheels I have seen some use large v groove pulleys with a belt glued into the v groove and the blade rides on the belt, without the wheel having a back lip will the blade just track off of it?


----------



## jimmyjames (May 6, 2013)

Never mind, I just found the v groove pulley inserts.... just for band mills, surplus center sells the 18.75" wheels for $50...

http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/urethane-band-wheels.html


----------



## gvwp (May 6, 2013)

They do make big bandmills Jimmy. You just have to write the check. Woodmizer has the WM1000. Cuts up to 67" wide. Its 3PH electric only and upwards of $70K. Mainly designed for slabbing only. Most people can't put out that kind of money so you don't see them very often. I would LOVE to own this mill but my wants are far more than my income. Here is the link to the WM1000:

http://www.woodmizer.com/us/IndustrialEquipment/Headrigs/WM1000.aspx


----------



## woodtickgreg (May 7, 2013)

Another reason is so they can still be legal size wise going down the road for transport without having to remove the head.:dunno:


----------



## sprucegum (May 12, 2013)

jimmyjames said:


> All of the commercial mill like woodmizer and timber king are limited to about a 30" wide cut, now that being said a lot of logs need quartered too saw or not sawn at all, is there a reason why they aren't built to handle say a 40" cut and a 50"+ log? The blade will be longer yes but what are the drawbacks? I was contemplating buying a St IHL 880 and an Alaskan mill but for the price I can just build a band mill hydraulically powered off of our tractor, and building one I would want to cut wider then 30", I'd like to have a 40" cut or better. The only problem I see is blade walk but if built ridgid enough I would think enough blade tension could be applied to overcome the blade walk and also not every log will be that big and the blade guide would be in further


Hudson makes a 52" mill the price starts around $14000 for the basic mill. I have a 36" Hudson it will cut a maximum of 28" board width. I have sawed a 36" log on it but it is not practical to do that size, under 30" is pretty doable so I expect 48" would be about the most you would want to do on the 52.


----------



## jimmyjames (May 12, 2013)

woodtickgreg said:


> Another reason is so they can still be legal size wise going down the road for transport without having to remove the head.:dunno:



As long as its 102" wide or under its legal which is pretty wide


----------



## jimmyjames (May 12, 2013)

gvwp said:


> They do make big bandmills Jimmy. You just have to write the check. Woodmizer has the WM1000. Cuts up to 67" wide. Its 3PH electric only and upwards of $70K. Mainly designed for slabbing only. Most people can't put out that kind of money so you don't see them very often. I would LOVE to own this mill but my wants are far more than my income. Here is the link to the WM1000:
> 
> http://www.woodmizer.com/us/IndustrialEquipment/Headrigs/WM1000.aspx



Man you'd have to move a lot of high dollar slabs to pay for that king of sawmills, if I hit the lottery I will have one!  but for now I will play mcgyver and cobble one together :)


----------



## woodtickgreg (May 12, 2013)

jimmyjames said:


> gvwp said:
> 
> 
> > They do make big bandmills Jimmy. You just have to write the check. Woodmizer has the WM1000. Cuts up to 67" wide. Its 3PH electric only and upwards of $70K. Mainly designed for slabbing only. Most people can't put out that kind of money so you don't see them very often. I would LOVE to own this mill but my wants are far more than my income. Here is the link to the WM1000:
> ...


+1 on the mcgyver thing!


----------



## Kevin (May 12, 2013)

Steve called yesterday and we talked for over an hour. He told NBC to take a hike. They wanted to do a reality show featuring him in several episodes but they mistakenly took him for a dumb backwoods hick. He sounds like one to the uninitiated but Steve has more smarts and integrity than people give credit for when they first meet him. 

His bandsaw is now much bigger. He stretched it to 72" horizontal and 60" vertical capacity. He said _"Kevin I know I'm going to hit a limit to how wide I can go but I haven't hit it yet. I guess I'll try going wider at some point but for now this 72" is working out fine."_ He also built the head where it can move 3.5 feet off center each way, so he can saw logs with a lot of sweep in them. My wife has been nagging me to take off and go visit him she loves hearing him talk not just because of his accent but because he's full of "witicisms" and just plain old horse sense. I suppose we'll try to get on over that way next year sometime. 

In the meantime Jim if you want to get an education about how to cobble one together, I'll be glad to grease the skids if you want to talk to him. He might not even then but it's worth a try because he has all the engineering calculations in his head and he can spit them out like a chemist giving the formula for a simple hydrogen fertilizer. If you look at his sawmill and listen to his dialect you would mistakenly believe he just threw together a POJ that happens to work, but you'd be mistaken. I call him a band mill genius and I really believe it. The guy is a band sawmill wizard. 

It looks like he'll taking on another tall ship order - the Mayflower II. Two years ago he started sawing the framing for the *San Salvador* restoration project and finished it last year. 

He told me his crash course in tall ships was the biggest challenge to date, and that he looks back and is surprised he pulled it off. Here's his words verbatim:

_"Kevvvin, me sawing thu framin' for that ship own time, and to thu eggzac specs they needed, was like thu wadderboy comin' off thu bench and winnin thu super bowwwl. "_

:lolol:


----------



## jimmyjames (May 12, 2013)

I may take you up on that offer in the near future :) thanks Kevin :)


----------



## Cross Sawmill (Oct 7, 2013)

jimmyjames said:


> gvwp said:
> 
> 
> > They do make big bandmills Jimmy. You just have to write the check. Woodmizer has the WM1000. Cuts up to 67" wide. Its 3PH electric only and upwards of $70K. Mainly designed for slabbing only. Most people can't put out that kind of money so you don't see them very often. I would LOVE to own this mill but my wants are far more than my income. Here is the link to the WM1000:
> ...


 I have a Friend/Customer who shipped Big Logs here to get them sawed into Slabs. He said Wood-Mizer told Him 68'' . After sawing with the Wm1000, He said that it would only do a63'' if it was Perfect. The name of the WM1000 owner is Paul Michael, Lake Village,Arkansas. I sometimes run an 80'' Horizontal Opening at 4'' cut height and minimum 68'' between wheels. I am seriously thinking of "Biggerizing". Size Matters!


----------



## Kevin (Oct 7, 2013)

Yeah Steve 80" is not that big can't you do any bigger than that?


----------



## Cross Sawmill (Oct 7, 2013)

Kevin said:


> Steve Cross built his own for that very reason. He's got an old south dialect but don't let it fool you, he's a sawmill genius IMO. I used to pick his brain when I was considering building a wide bandmill like he has.


----------



## Kevin (Oct 7, 2013)

Yeah I love that description. And what's the other Spontaneous Junk


----------



## woodtickgreg (Oct 7, 2013)

Kevin said:


> Spontaneous Junk



That's my absolute favorite!


----------



## SDB777 (Oct 7, 2013)

Considering the 30" size you mentioned, have you ever moved a 30" log by hand? A lot of us small mill owners do not use powered machinery to move logs....and logs are heavy!!!

And I would guess the sheer numbers of people that cut 30"+ size timber everyday are probably under 10 nationwide.....JMHO, it's probably less then that. I have cut maybe 12 pieces of timber over 28" in width this year, and only two pieces that were over 36". I cut those with my chainsaw mill where they sat. 

That being said, I'd love to do nothing but cut huge timber everyday, but I know better. My tiny mill just keeps chugging out the profit......





Scott (guess that's why chainsaw mills are still awesome) B


----------



## Kevin (Oct 7, 2013)

SDB777 said:


> ....
> 
> And I would guess the sheer numbers of people that cut 30"+ size timber everyday are probably under 10 nationwide.....JMHO, it's probably less then that. ....



No there are still big trees being milled. there are two sawmills within 75 - 100 mile radius of me alone still doing that at least occasionally. Grays sawmill in Durant and Phillips in DeKalb.


----------



## jimmyjames (Oct 7, 2013)

Kevin said:


> SDB777 said:
> 
> 
> > ....
> ...



The sawmill down the road from me has a 70" capacity at they're mill but is always setup for 40" and smaller, not sure what it takes for them to set it up bigger but I do know that the giant logs they mill always gets cut into special order stuff in 12/4-32/4 sizes, they have 32/4 planks that are 30"+ wide in big old stacks that have been sitting for years air drying, 

For the comment above about moving 30" logs by hand, yes I've done it and have moved bigger logs than that by hand, you'd be awfully surprised what 2 guys, 2 can't hooks and a truck and a log chain can move around.... just last week we moved a 8' long 50"+ diameter at the small end with a crotch on one end maple , crotch was well over 8' wide, I'm sure the log weighed well over 5000 pounds, not something I would want to do everyday but yes we got it done......


----------



## jimmyjames (Oct 7, 2013)

The thing is that small trees that are 24" diameter and smaller rarely have heavy figure, the gigantic ones that nobody wants to deal with almost always have crazy compression in them, every giant maple I've cut has heavy figure, when I say giant I mean 40"+ diameter, the reason I want a big mill is too deal with those giant logs , I'm not in it to mill a ton of small straight grain logs and every once in a while get a board or 2 of figure, I'm in it to win it....... those big knarly crotch logs with retarded bulges and u-shape crotches and crooked logs that scream at me I HAVE CRAZY FIGURE!!!


----------



## Kevin (Oct 7, 2013)

Hey Scott I wrestled logs that size around beofre I had my skidsteer and hydraulic mill. What the manul mill guys may not realize is that even after you get a loader and hyd mill, there's still plenty of wrestling that has to be done sometimes. One short Irishman and a big Logrite cant hook can do wonders so I would expect the big guys like you and Jimmy can do even more.


----------



## jimmyjames (Oct 7, 2013)

Kevin said:


> Hey Scott I wrestled logs that size around beofre I had my skidsteer and hydraulic mill. What the manul mill guys may not realize is that even after you get a loader and hyd mill, there's still plenty of wrestling that has to be done sometimes. One short Irishman and a big Logrite cant hook can do wonders so I would expect the big guys like you and Jimmy can do even more.



Especially when you have adrenaline running through your veins in anticipation of opening up those knarly figured logs


----------



## jimmyjames (Oct 7, 2013)

Cross Sawmill said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> > Steve Cross built his own for that very reason. He's got an old south dialect but don't let it fool you, he's a sawmill genius IMO. I used to pick his brain when I was considering building a wide bandmill like he has.


----------



## Cross Sawmill (Oct 8, 2013)

gvwp said:


> They do make big bandmills Jimmy. You just have to write the check. Woodmizer has the WM1000. Cuts up to 67" wide. Its 3PH electric only and upwards of $70K. Mainly designed for slabbing only. Most people can't put out that kind of money so you don't see them very often. I would LOVE to own this mill but my wants are far more than my income. Here is the link to the WM1000:
> 
> http://www.woodmizer.com/us/IndustrialEquipment/Headrigs/WM1000.aspx


 There are Three answers for Why Bandmills are built Small. 1-Expense 2-Expense 3-Expense. aka SuperAX


----------



## SDB777 (Oct 8, 2013)

I agree that big nasty, gnarly logs have great figure, but I would also say that being selective it the woods gets some nice stuff from much smaller timber. I typically never have anything on my small manual mill that doesn't have ten to thirty crotches, and finding inclusion is fairly common for me....okay, I look for that and if I find a super-crotch I'm still happy.

The last giant log I went after measure 58"(on the small end) 14' length with 9 crotches....my quick figuring said it weighed 11,800 pounds!!! That is more then tow strap, can't hook, and a small winch can ever think about! Oh, and I was by myself....rarely do I even find a 'helper' when big timber is being talked about, kind of strange ain't it?

That log has two giant slabs missing from it now. My chainsaw mill came in handy, but just those two slabs were as much as my little single axle trailer wanted, and I was getting hungry and tired after a long day at work. I will go back when I get time and grab some more slabs and 'whittle it down', but I am in no hurry to keep Mother Nature from working her magic on the spalting!!!!!


I do need a bigger chainsaw bar though....hint, hint Christmas and all is coming.






Scott (turkey's walking through the yard) B


----------



## Cross Sawmill (Oct 11, 2013)

Question? We(Cross Sawmill) believe that We have the biggest "Horizontal Narrow-Band Thin-Kerf" sawmill in the World. Are We right or wrong? Anybody? What is bigger? What is Second? aka SuperAX


----------



## Treecycle Hardwoods (Oct 11, 2013)

Cross Sawmill said:


> Question? We(Cross Sawmill) believe that We have the biggest "Horizontal Narrow-Band Thin-Kerf" sawmill in the World. Are We right or wrong? Anybody? What is bigger? What is Second? aka SuperAX



Possibly hearn?


----------



## jimmyjames (Oct 11, 2013)

Treecycle Hardwoods said:


> Cross Sawmill said:
> 
> 
> > Question? We(Cross Sawmill) believe that We have the biggest "Horizontal Narrow-Band Thin-Kerf" sawmill in the World. Are We right or wrong? Anybody? What is bigger? What is Second? aka SuperAX
> ...



hearns is a vertical and not thin kerf, its pretty big but still dont have the cut capacity of cross, i think theyre bandsaw has less than a 48" cut, they chainsaw mill theyre big stuff


----------



## jimmyjames (Oct 11, 2013)

my bad, hearns has a 67" cut

http://www.hearnehardwoods.com/wood_facilities/sawmill/sawmill.html


----------



## Cross Sawmill (Oct 12, 2013)

Treecycle Hardwoods said:


> Cross Sawmill said:
> 
> 
> > Question? We(Cross Sawmill) believe that We have the biggest "Horizontal Narrow-Band Thin-Kerf" sawmill in the World. Are We right or wrong? Anybody? What is bigger? What is Second? aka SuperAX
> ...


 I am pretty sure Hearn (Hearn Hardwoods) has a large Vertical Wide Band. BUT!!! I think I can cut even wider than them. There are many sawmills that make mine look like a roller skate. My question was about "Horizontal Thin-Kerf Narrow Bands" . But while We are at it, what is the widest, and what do they use to cut it? I saw a photograph of the legendary Sam Talarico beside a large vertical band saw that the caption said was His. He also has a large Dolmar. That is what He told Me on the phone.


----------



## Cross Sawmill (Oct 12, 2013)

Cross Sawmill said:


> Treecycle Hardwoods said:
> 
> 
> > Cross Sawmill said:
> ...


 Another Question? Who is making "Wide Cuts"(48'' and over) with CSMs and what is Your "SQUARE foot per minute"? I have not timed mine, but I think I am cutting around 30 Square foot per minute.


----------



## woodtickgreg (Oct 12, 2013)

Well I'm not 48" I can cut 33" max. On a 9' x 33" wide cut I will average 7 to 10 minutes depending on the species of wood and how hard it is. Having said this that was with a slightly underpowered 100cc saw and not the most agressive chain grind either. I am currently looking at purchasing a husky 3120 for the csm and playing with the grinds a little more. So I guess I average about 2 sf a minute on the wide stuff? Maybe more. :dunno:


----------



## Cross Sawmill (Oct 12, 2013)

jimmyjames said:


> All of the commercial mill like woodmizer and timber king are limited to about a 30" wide cut, now that being said a lot of logs need quartered too saw or not sawn at all, is there a reason why they aren't built to handle say a 40" cut and a 50"+ log? The blade will be longer yes but what are the drawbacks? I was contemplating buying a St IHL 880 and an Alaskan mill but for the price I can just build a band mill hydraulically powered off of our tractor, and building one I would want to cut wider then 30", I'd like to have a 40" cut or better. The only problem I see is blade walk but if built ridgid enough I would think enough blade tension could be applied to overcome the blade walk and also not every log will be that big and the blade guide would be in further


 On a National and World basis, what big logs are available,species,size and cost ? What would be their value milled into material?


----------



## Cross Sawmill (Oct 13, 2013)

Cross Sawmill said:


> Treecycle Hardwoods said:
> 
> 
> > Cross Sawmill said:
> ...


 OK! What did I mean by big? I meant size capacity. If it was speed capacity many of the regular size bandmills could out-produce Me. Not to mention production mills that can cut 30,000 feet per hour. I sometimes do not cut that much in a month. So ,size, not speed. 
I looked at some photographs of Hearns big saw. "I" would not stand beside a big slab like that while it was being cut. "I" also would not ask(or tell) anyone else to do it. Maybe they have a tipping table by now.


----------



## Cross Sawmill (Oct 27, 2013)

gvwp said:


> They do make big bandmills Jimmy. You just have to write the check. Woodmizer has the WM1000. Cuts up to 67" wide. Its 3PH electric only and upwards of $70K. Mainly designed for slabbing only. Most people can't put out that kind of money so you don't see them very often. I would LOVE to own this mill but my wants are far more than my income. Here is the link to the WM1000:
> 
> http://www.woodmizer.com/us/IndustrialEquipment/Headrigs/WM1000.aspx


 Does anyone have direct experience with The WM 1000?


----------



## Cross Sawmill (Oct 27, 2013)

jimmyjames said:


> All of the commercial mill like woodmizer and timber king are limited to about a 30" wide cut, now that being said a lot of logs need quartered too saw or not sawn at all, is there a reason why they aren't built to handle say a 40" cut and a 50"+ log? The blade will be longer yes but what are the drawbacks? I was contemplating buying a St IHL 880 and an Alaskan mill but for the price I can just build a band mill hydraulically powered off of our tractor, and building one I would want to cut wider then 30", I'd like to have a 40" cut or better. The only problem I see is blade walk but if built ridgid enough I would think enough blade tension could be applied to overcome the blade walk and also not every log will be that big and the blade guide would be in further


 Traction Surface!!!!!!! To transmit power to the band the "Mechanism" has to supply correct power! That starts with the power source , whatever it is, and winds up at the Blade Tips. If there is not enough power, it will not work, IF the power does not reach the blade tips, there is not enough power.

Reactions: Like 1


----------

