# I dont know what kind of tree this is



## Matthew Jaynes

I dont know what tree this is, I know they are not native to Texas and growing up we always just called them China berry trees but i dont think thats what they are really called. any of youll know what tree this is?


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## Tclem

Popcorn tree. Chinese tallow

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Matthew Jaynes

Tclem said:


> Popcorn tree. Chinese tallow


Thank you sir


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## Kevin

Chinaberry is all we ever called them. We used to have chinaberry wars when I was a kid in corpus christi. I sure would love to clamp one on my mill.


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## Matthew Jaynes

@Kevin A guy living close buy Chopped down 5 good sized ones I grabbed a bunch of limbs and put in my truck today I am going back to get the trunks tomorrow.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Matthew Jaynes

Ill get some good pics of them tomorrow when I go back for them

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tclem

Think the chinaberry balls are smaller. I have hundreds of these trees around here and did a bunch of research on them. A lot of people do call them chinaberry and some popcorn tree but the chinaberry appears to ( see pictures). Wood is yellowish but I turned some awesome bowls after it sat in burn pile for a while and spalted


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## Tclem

Also the chinaberry tree will have darker wood than the popcorn which is a wild junk tree around here


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## Matthew Jaynes

@Tclem So do you have actual china berry trees or China Tallow (the first pic in your post). Kevin and I both Called them China Berries growing up but I figured that's not what they were called when I googled China Berry I got a lot of the pics like your 2nd one. I would like to try to turn a bunch of that tallow that I just picked up and maybe some small live edge bowls or platters. and I want to try to get some Splated like you did and let a few slabs sit in Ash for a few months and see what I get with that.


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## ironman123

Stabilized chinaberry makes nice pens. We as kids shot the berries out of our uh slingshots. I keep an eye on one on the next block.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Matthew Jaynes

@ironman123 I shot my little brother once with one in the face by accident, hit him just below his right eye. 1/2 inch higher and my brother would have surely but not well in that eye ROFL. he got me back though the next week and put a pellet in my rear LOL

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Tclem

Matthew Jaynes said:


> @Tclem So do you have actual china berry trees or China Tallow (the first pic in your post). Kevin and I both Called them China Berries growing up but I figured that's not what they were called when I googled China Berry I got a lot of the pics like your 2nd one. I would like to try to turn a bunch of that tallow that I just picked up and maybe some small live edge bowls or platters. and I want to try to get some Splated like you did and let a few slabs sit in Ash for a few months and see what I get with that.


Yes. They are everywhere that's why I knew the name. They are wild and grow all over. Like a weed. Can't kill them. Have to dig up roots. They take over everything. Have only seen a few of the chinaberry like in the second picture. People call these chinaberry here also but I did a lot of googling that's how I knew Chinese tallow. I just dig up three last year next to my house. Roots growing under concrete. My old house had them all up and down the driveway. You cut them they grow 100 more. Was not good for turning unless spalted. Let me find a bowl

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## Tclem



Reactions: Way Cool 2


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## Matthew Jaynes

Tclem said:


> Yes. They are everywhere that's why I knew the name. They are wild and grow all over. Like a weed. Can't kill them. Have to dig up roots. They take over everything. Have only seen a few of the chinaberry like in the second picture. People call these chinaberry here also but I did a lot of googling that's how I knew Chinese tallow. I just dig up three last year next to my house. Roots growing under concrete. My old house had them all up and down the driveway. You cut them they grow 100 more. Was not good for turning unless spalted. Let me find a bowl


if it isn't good for turning unless splated than ill try to splat a bunch of it and practice turning bowls plates cups and what not out of the rest, I wouldn't want to experiment with good wood. Im Also picking up some Cut Cottenwood and a ton of Oak tomorrow as well.


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## Matthew Jaynes

Tclem said:


> View attachment 86119


That is a nice looking bowl Splated though

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Matthew Jaynes

@Tclem @Kevin @ironman123


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## Tclem

Matthew Jaynes said:


> View attachment 86120 @Tclem @Kevin @ironman123


That's it. Cut it open. Should be yellow wood but darkens fast when sitting under a pile of leaves.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ironman123

@Tclem hackberry grows like that around here. I cut down 21 trees to put my fence up and there are about 70 little ones starting. Chop chop chop. I didn't know Missippi or Missipissi or however it is spelled, had abundant chinaberry trees.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## winters98

That is not huckleberry


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## Tclem

ironman123 said:


> @Tclem hackberry grows like that around here. I cut down 21 trees to put my fence up and there are about 70 little ones starting. Chop chop chop. I didn't know Missippi or Missipissi or however it is spelled, had abundant chinaberry trees.


We have some chinaberry mostly popcorn


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## Kevin

Tony get those awful sissy white sandals off our little Paxton - then and only then can we resume men talk about trees and chinaberry wars and stuff.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## Matthew Jaynes

@Kevin i can load up those trunks for you tomorrow they are like 7 or 8 feet tall 18 to 20 inches think and all in one piece. i think there are 3 or 4 or 5 of them

Reactions: +Karma 1


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## norman vandyke

Matthew Jaynes said:


> View attachment 86120 @Tclem @Kevin @ironman123


That truck bed is far too clean...

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Tclem

Kevin said:


> Tony get those awful sissy white sandals off our little Paxton - then and only then can we resume men talk about trees and chinaberry wars and stuff.


That's his momma. Lol

Reactions: Funny 2


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## ripjack13

Tclem said:


> That's his momma. Lol



Oh suuurrre it is....

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Kevin

Matthew Jaynes said:


> @Kevin i can load up those trunks for you tomorrow they are like 7 or 8 feet tall 18 to 20 inches think and all in one piece. i think there are 3 or 4 or 5 of them



Matthew that is very nice of you to offer to go through all that trouble but I just simply don't have the time to add something else to my plate right now. But if you can find a local sawmill to mill them up for you you have some super gorgeous wood.

Even if it isn't figured chinaberry has a most unique and beautiful color. And if it is figured you won't believe the incredible chatoyance chinaberry shows. 

On a little side note, speak in to the voice recognition on your phone and say chatoyance ... the first time I got _"should Tony it's" _and I can't type what it gave on the second try lol.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Matthew Jaynes

@Kevin well I was just going to come by and drop them off on your property on my way up to Montana in March. I don't need them milled for myself just remember you saying you wouldn't mind running 1 through your mill. would be more than happy to drop off a trunk at your doorstep as i past through to go to Montana

Reactions: Way Cool 1


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## CodyC

The tree pictured by the OP is not what we call Chinaberry here in East Texas. The one posted by Tclem is our Chinaberry. It's actually in the Mahogany family and makes beautiful lumber if you can find one with a trunk long enough and straight enough to saw. I have several small ones along the property line but none big enough to harvest. They are considered a nuisance tree around here.

Kevin, I was involved in some serious Chinaberry wars when I was a kid, too.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Matthew Jaynes

I'm confused now, so is the tree I posted a China tallow, or not lol.


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## Kevin

Cody have you ever milled any of the wood Matthew has? I never have and have no idea what it's like. 

@CodyC


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## Wildthings

Matthew Jaynes said:


> I'm confused now, so is the tree I posted a China tallow, or not lol.


OK what did we decide on the tree. I've always called them Chinaberry trees and knew that they were actually Chinese Tallow. Is this not correct?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tclem

Well Google a Chinese tallow or popcorn tree and the leaves and the balls are identical to the original post. They may be called chinaberry in Texas. Just saying what they are called over here. But if you google a chinaberry the balls are totally different from the original post

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Wildthings

Yep if I google "Chinaberry tree Texas" I get about 95% something other than what I expect. When I google "Chinese tallow tree Texas" I get about 98.987% what I expect!

I ain't gonna quit calling them things Chinaberries though!

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Matthew Jaynes

I'm right there with you brother. @Wildthings


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## Kevin

_Hey Billy let's get little Roy, Mikey, and crazy Larry and all go start a chinese tallow fight with the Sinclair street boys!_

No. Ain't happening. It don't sound right.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## ripjack13

Matthew Jaynes said:


> I'm confused now



Our job here is complete....
Move along...nothing to see here....

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Mr. Peet

Thanks for the entertainment. "China berry"(_Melia azedarach_) is a recent addition to the US soils of this past century for the most part. It grows in the southern states where it is often free of winter frost. The "Chinese tallow" (_Triadica sebafera_, formaly _Sapium sebiferum_) also here about the same time frame, grows in a similar zone with slightly more cold tolerance, so a bit further north. Popcorn tree is the name I first learned. Being that the name has commonalities, we often smear the lines, and confusion grows from there.

Matthew, try calling it "Tallow tree". By removing the word Chinese, you remove some of the confusion with it. Keep what you learned in your head for future encounters with folks that have learned it as yourself. Then offer to inform them of the more commonly accepted name, therefore spreading the word learned at Woodbarter for the embitterment of the whole. It also brings all into a closer ring of clear communication.

Oh yeah, have at it. Up north we used apples, spruce cones and on rare occasion "Osage orange" hedge apples for darting each other. Take one of those on the nose when traveling 20 mph on the motor dirt bike in the woods and try not kissing a tree. We were rough as kids, sometimes tree huggers not by choice but by circumstance...

Reactions: Like 3 | Thank You! 1 | Great Post 1


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## Kevin

Lol peet describing a horse apple fight to southerners is like us trying to describe a snowball fight to y'all. The analogy is called preaching to the choir.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## CodyC

Kevin, I've never even seen a tree like the one Matthew showed, much less milled one. I have milled what WE call Chinaberry...smaller than marble-size green berry clusters which turn yellow in the fall. The bark looks similar to young Cherry bark...sort of smooth with little bumps on it. They grow a lot around old home places and on fence rows around here. The limbs will break easily so don't let the kids climb one. DAMHIKT
The attached pics are what we call Chinaberry although I know that different trees have different names in other regions.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## CodyC

I have a "Horse Apple" tree, aka Bodark, aka Osage Orange growing on my backyard fence line. I cut it down years ago when I got my lathe but it just grew back. I keep the limbs pruned now so I can mow underneath it without getting impaled by the thorns but that sucker drops about a hundred horse apples in my yard every fall. I throw them over the fence into the pasture behind my place.

Horse apple fights can get SERIOUS because they are bigger than a softball and heavy.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## woodtickgreg

CodyC said:


> I have a "Horse Apple" tree, aka Bodark, aka Osage Orange growing on my backyard fence line. I cut it down years ago when I got my lathe but it just grew back. I keep the limbs pruned now so I can mow underneath it without getting impaled by the thorns but that sucker drops about a hundred horse apples in my yard every fall. I throw them over the fence into the pasture behind my place.
> 
> Horse apple fights can get SERIOUS because they are bigger than a softball and heavy.


I'd like to see picks of those, never seen them I don't think.


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## Kevin

I think I still have one stuck in the back of the tractor tranny and fender on my tractor from last time I shredded one of my dad's pastures. You can literally knock a kid (or even an adult) out with a hard throw or break a nose quite easily. Or have it happen to you believe me. Getting through a horse apple fight without at least a bump on the noggin or black eye count yourself living a charmed life . . .

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## woodtickgreg

Very cool, nope....never seen those before. As a kid we just used rocks, or played army in full camo and used bb guns. Nuthin better than shooting your best friend in the a$$ with a bb gun and hearing him yelp. LOL, ahh to be young again.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Matthew Jaynes

Man oh man I havnt seen a horse apple in years, when I was a young kid I always thought they were some kind of alien tree growing baby aliens from the brain out O_o

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Kevin

woodtickgreg said:


> Nuthin better than shooting your best friend in the a$$ with a bb gun and hearing him yelp.



Did that very thing to my buddy Dan King I can still see his reaction lmao. He let out a yelp and clapped his hand on his ass about the same time he got airborne it was hilarious. I can't remember if it was in Japan or Corpus Christi (his dad and my dad were attached to the same squadron) but I can still see that plain as day.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## woodtickgreg

I have the same kinds of memories. Funny as all get out.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## JR Custom Calls

You can throw a rock here without hitting a hedge apple tree. At least in the country, city is a little different. 

I knocked thousands of hedge apples out of the trees when I was a kid shooting my .410 with my papaw

Reactions: Like 3


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## Wildthings

What a great thread!! Full of info and full of memories

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kevin

Jonathan did you know the bois d' arc tree originated literally within miles of where I was born in Fannin County Texas? All the trees north of the red river originated right here. Osage seeds were a hot commodity until barbed wire. Osage was predicted to becomne a trash tree but soon the farmers and ranchers realized they needed the best posts possible to string that wire and bois d' arc was the obvious choice.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 3


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## robert flynt

CodyC said:


> Kevin, I've never even seen a tree like the one Matthew showed, much less milled one. I have milled what WE call Chinaberry...smaller than marble-size green berry clusters which turn yellow in the fall. The bark looks similar to young Cherry bark...sort of smooth with little bumps on it. They grow a lot around old home places and on fence rows around here. The limbs will break easily so don't let the kids climb one. DAMHIKT
> The attached pics are what we call Chinaberry although I know that different trees have different names in other regions.
> 
> View attachment 86220
> 
> View attachment 86221


That is what we used to have chinaberry wars with and boy are those little berries bitter. Those china tallow trees a very evasive and the state has treated some areas along the lower Pearl rives because they choke out the native trees.


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## robert flynt

Kevin said:


> Did that very thing to my buddy Dan King I can still see his reaction lmao. He let out a yelp and clapped his hand on his ass about the same time he got airborne it was hilarious. I can't remember if it was in Japan or Corpus Christi (his dad and my dad were attached to the same squadron) but I can still see that plain as day.


Sweet memories!!! A friend had one of those more powerful daisy pump guns he had rigged it to fire ever time he slid the pump forward. Man, he was the grand champion due to sheer fire power!!


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## CodyC

Kevin said:


> Jonathan did you know the bois d' arc tree originated literally within miles of where I was born in Fannin County Texas? All the trees north of the red river originated right here. Osage seeds were a hot commodity until barbed wire. Osage was predicted to becomne a trash tree but soon the farmers and ranchers realized they needed the best posts possible to string that wire and bois d' arc was the obvious choice.



Bois d' Arc is a very interesting tree. As Kevin wrote, it was native to a very small area in NE Texas, SE Oklahoma and SW Arkansas. Before the advent of barbed wire, the horseapples were shipped to the midwest in boxcar loads to be planted as hedge rows. Every bump you see on that one pictured is a seed. I've also read that it was the first tree that Lewis & Clark sent back East during their transcontinental journey.
The Osage Indians prized it for bows, hence the name Bois d' Arc...wood of the bow. The name Osage Orange is because that green fruit somewhat resembles a orange and when overripe, even smells faintly like an orange. The name has nothing to do with the wood color, as some infer. The wood is bright yellow when freshly cut but will turn chocolate brown with exposure to UV and oxidation.

This a Hal Taylor rocking chair I built (and sold) from Bois d' Arc. It was a heavy chair.

Reactions: EyeCandy! 2 | Way Cool 3


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## Kevin

Cody I've referenced this before but you may not have seen it. There is only one book I'm aware of which is dedicated solely to the history of Bois d" Arc and THIS IS IT. You can see my review of the book by scrolling down the page. I've had several conversations with Mr. Tarpley and they always last an hour or more lol he is a treasure trove of history not just Bois d' Arc.

Reactions: Way Cool 1


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## Matthew Jaynes

Im really glad I made this thread, not only did I get my answer questioned, but I also had some nostalgic laughs and learned a bunch from y'all about native trees. that Osage Orange does make some beautiful things though.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ripjack13

woodtickgreg said:


> Very cool, nope....never seen those before. As a kid we just used rocks, or played army in full camo and used bb guns. Nuthin better than shooting your best friend in the a$$ with a bb gun and hearing him yelp. LOL, ahh to be young again.



Same here...we had one war game where one of my buddies got hit in the eye and ended up with the bb in his eye lid & he had it in there for a while too, till his parents found out about it and had a conniption fit about it...needless to say that was the last time we played war games with the bb guns...

Reactions: Funny 2


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## woodman6415

We used China berries as ammo in our home made wrist rockets ( sad to say that's not what we called them then ... Cut nice y branch out of mesquite tree ... Get some old bicycle tube ... Piece of leather from old belt ... Practice makes a deadly shot ... When green China berries are smooth so straighter travel ... But when old and dry hard as rock with multiple ridges ... Both made bruises ... And hurt like the dickens

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## CodyC

Thanks for the link to that book, Kevin. I just ordered it!

Reactions: Like 1 | +Karma 1


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## Kevin

I was going to give his address since he preferred selling them himself vs amazon, but I just learned he went to that big Bois d' Arc Bash in the sky March of last year. He founded the celebration 30 years ago and it quickly grew into a big deal. It's a real fun time I hope to make it this year haven't been to one in a while. Won't be the same without him.


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## NYWoodturner

Matthew Jaynes said:


> not only did I get my answer questioned,



My wife does that to me all the time

Reactions: Funny 1


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