# Coal and my visit with Alan



## Mike1950 (Jul 4, 2016)

Last week I stopped to visit @justallan - I did not have much Time but He sorta gave me a tour through the mine to his place. When he says he lives next to the mine- He is not kidding folks. He is on an island surrounded by Very cool humongous equipment out in the middle of nowhere. Everything there makes normal yellow iron look small. Thanks Alan- nice to have met you.
We all read about the war on coal and I have tried to look at both sides. But to go to a coal town- out in the middle of nowhere Mt. Puts it in a very different perspective. The human perspective- there is a gas station- police station- school- stores all the things that a thriving small town has, all live under the shadow of an enormous plant. Work goes on 24/7- I assume decent wages and bennies. There is another shadow this town lives under, one pen stroke away from being a ghost town. Elimination of coal power- now I am not trying to be political- just looking at the facts. This is about carbon dioxide and the planet- Ok I will buy that for the sake of discussion. We have 522 coal fired plants in the US- mostly East of the Miss. seems like a lot- 10 per state. Turns on the lights for y'all in the east. Now if it is truly necessary that we get rid of them we have to understand there are 522 communities with real folks that will be to say the least disrupted. Now this will prevent a certain amount of CO2 - I get that.
Now what I do not get: "India and China alone plan to build 1617 new coal power plants by 2030, which will blow hopes of keeping global warming to safe levels out of the water, said CAT."
We get rid of ours- at great cost to the nation while they build probably 1000's of plants elsewhere in the world. Does anyone think those plants will be cleaner then ours. Do they have fences to keep offending gas in country of origin??
Also by the way I understand it the climate change agreement means we pay third world countries for the pollution we have made- What??? so they can build more polluting plants.
The  is confused- hard to see how this really solves one damn thing. But what I do know is in colstrip mt. one of the 522 cities that have one of these plants, has a huge investment of dollars- these are multi billion dollar operations- Investment in lifes- 522 cities that will become ghost towns. Seeing the city and the people- really made a different impression on me. One stroke of a pen and their investment in life goes away..... Just things to ponder on this election year....

Reactions: Great Post 10 | Informative 4


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## Wildthings (Jul 4, 2016)

Some great thoughts !! Just needs pictures!


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## Mike1950 (Jul 4, 2016)

Wildthings said:


> Some great thoughts !! Just needs pictures!



sorry I took no pictures- Thought about it then against. If I lived there I would look twice at some one taking pictures... And pictures would do no justice - think of a dragline bucket that your car disappears into. Trucks your house fits in- hard to tell how big-quite far away. Miles of conveyor belt feeding the power plants.. Also I would not want my pictures- taken within mine to be used against mine- I sure as hell would not want to contribute to these folks problems....

Reactions: Like 2 | +Karma 1


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## rocky1 (Jul 4, 2016)

You don't even want to get me started on this one! Global warming is the BIGGEST SCAM ever perpetrated on the human race!

Climate has changed since the first day this planet existed. Climate has changed since LONG before mankind ever graced the face of this earth, let alone discovered carbon based fuels. Climate will continue to change long after we as a race cease entirely to exist on this planet. Climate changes every single day of our lives. To suggest shutting our carbon footprint down, when carbon is a naturally occurring element in our environment, is part of every living breathing thing on this planet, as well as many things that don't live and breath, is quite simply ludicrous!

And, government has not presented a viable alternative to the use of carbon based fuels. If they shut those power plants down, we will all be left in the dark! The remaining sources of power in this country will be overwhelmed. You will see rolling blackouts on a daily basis. That is not my opinion; it is a fact.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## barry richardson (Jul 4, 2016)

I don't really follow Montana politics, but I served with this guy in the Navy, https://zinke.house.gov/ I can vouch for his character, and he is an advocate for Montana's Coal interest, and of course a staunch conservative....

Reactions: Like 2


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## rocky1 (Jul 4, 2016)

Knew I had it saved someplace.... Fantastic read on the topic. From none other than the founder of Greenpeace.

http://www.thegwpf.com/28155/

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


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## Mike1950 (Jul 4, 2016)

Chapter 2- The min


rocky1 said:


> Knew I had it saved someplace.... Fantastic read on the topic. From none other than the founder of Greenpeace.
> 
> http://www.thegwpf.com/28155/


Wow...quite a read

Reactions: Agree 2


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## rocky1 (Jul 4, 2016)

It's quite interesting to say the least, coming from the founder of one of the world's foremost conservation organizations.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## justallan (Jul 4, 2016)

@Mike1950, thanks for coming out. I enjoyed the visit.
The part that bothers me the most is that in the end it will all be smoothed over by someone making some sort of concession to the organizations fighting it, but in the meantime there are bunches of families living in total uncertainty of knowing if they will have a job, where they will go next, if they will even be able to sell their homes, ETC.
I would sure bet there are a lot of folks using coal produced power to enjoy a nice air conditioned office and run their computers and whatnot while doing these lawsuits, but I guess they don't see that as wrong.
How about if anyone that doesn't want coal provided power just go to your mothers house when it's about 110 degrees and try to explain that you feel it's better if she were dead because you don't feel right about burning coal, let's see how that works out for you.
When the day comes that we have a reliable constant way to make power that will supply what is needed, then maybe make some cuts, but until then nothing good is going to come from this.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## justallan (Jul 4, 2016)

What gets me is between some folks trying to stop logging, some more that can't prove fossil fuels are actually worse than the alternative and more yet by folks sniffing cow farts, that I could lose 3 things I love: Living indoors, enjoying lights and having a big fat steak!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## rocky1 (Jul 4, 2016)

Naaaaaaahhhhh... I think there is a whole lot of normal folks getting real tired of getting pushed, and we're about to see the pendulum swing back the other way. Just not sure how many liberals it's going to take getting their ass kicked or getting shot to bring it about, but it's getting closer every day!!

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Mike1950 (Jul 4, 2016)

rocky1 said:


> It's quite interesting to say the least, coming from the founder of one of the world's foremost conservation organizations.



Ye I agree- I prefer a little warmer vs the 2.2 kilometers of ice... Yikes- My snowblower would definitely not be up to the task.....


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## JR Custom Calls (Jul 4, 2016)

I read somewhere that a windmill is a bigger threat to 'global warming' than a coal plant. Said that the emissions created mining the ore, making the steel, etc etc was more than what a coal plant would produce generating the same amount of power a windmill would in its lifetime.


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## justallan (Jul 4, 2016)

@JR Custom Calls, I just heard the same thing. Something else I heard was the life expectancy of a windmill was well less.
So basically a windmill could possibly make enough money to pay for itself again when it went to crap.


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## Kevin (Jul 4, 2016)

rocky1 said:


> Knew I had it saved someplace.... Fantastic read on the topic. From none other than the founder of Greenpeace.
> 
> http://www.thegwpf.com/28155/



I watched the video of this. It went viral somewhere.


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## Kevin (Jul 4, 2016)

This isn't it but it's a good primer.


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## rocky1 (Jul 4, 2016)

justallan said:


> @JR Custom Calls, I just heard the same thing. Something else I heard was the life expectancy of a windmill was well less.
> So basically a windmill could possibly make enough money to pay for itself again when it went to crap.



Report I read, said that the windmill would not pay for itself aside from subsidies. That without subsidies, it would pay less than half the cost of the tower, without maintenance costs, over the course of it's lifespan. Maintenance is quite high on them as well. And, the bulk of the investors in these things are overseas companies, although we're seeing a great many of them now being forced upon investors here in the US, to meet the specified "renewable energy" mandates imposed by the Obama Administration. Here in ND, Florida Power and Light have erected quite a few.


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## Kevin (Jul 4, 2016)

Safe to say corporations run the planet via their middlemen lobbyists, buying off the henchmen politicians. And most people still support this corrupt system because they're too afraid to live without a police force. Sorry guys but governments and their gun-toting enforcers are the problem. We live on a true prison planet. Just because you have been told you need government to thrive doesn't mean it's so. But "anarchy" is SO SCARY!!!!!!


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## rocky1 (Jul 4, 2016)

Absolutely... Too many folks are scared to attempt survival without the government to bail them out.


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## Mike1950 (Jul 5, 2016)



Reactions: Like 2


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## justallan (Jul 5, 2016)

Wildthings said:


> Some great thoughts !! Just needs pictures!


I don't have many pics on this computer, but here's one of the draglines sneaking past my house. The mine generally gives me a call when they are going to blast near my house, they do any fencing between themselves and me, plus they maintain the water for cows we have on the mine, I'm ain't bitching much.
I believe the plant here takes care of the splashpark (swimming pool), the local fishing pond/lake, the sports complex, the community fitness center, the golf course, the skate park and nearly 20 parks for the kids, plus maintain paved riding and walking paths throughout the town and keep them cleared year around. They also have paid training programs in many different trades, give grants and scholarships for college and pay "X" percent of your kids tuition for school as a benny of working for them.
I haven't done a bit of research with other types of utilities and what they offer their communities, but can't hardly imagine any taking care of folks the way this one does.
I have no ties to the union, mine or the plant, but it bugs me that folks are willing to let entire towns and most of the jobs get squashed on nothing more than claims and theories that I feel are made to benefit a different agenda

Reactions: Great Post 2 | Way Cool 1


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