# I hope I hope I hope



## chippin-in

Last year I found out that a co-worker’s dad had a Norwood Lumbermate 2000. His dad passed away in about 2004 and the mill has been sitting with a motor cover on it ever since. He said it probably only had about 20-30 hours on the Kohler 15hp motor. 

I emailed Norwood and they said it was a 2000 model that was purchased for $6400.00. He said it was capable of sawing 30” logs. 

I told my friend that I was interested in it, but wasn’t sure how much I could pay. He still has it and I am trying to get the funds together to purchase it. I thought about offering $2000.00 if the motor was in good condition and it still rolled smooth. Not sure how much other maintenance I would have to do on it to make sure its in good running condition.

Im not trying to lowball him, but I can get a new Lumberlite ML26 for around $4000.00

We are in the process of refinancing our house and hopefully that will allow me to get this mill. I still have to convince my wife this is a really really really good idea. 

Anyways, your thoughts?

Thanks
Robert

BTW, this is a great time to refi your house. Rates are loooowwww!!!

You could buy more wood!!!


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## Kevin

chippin-in said:


> ... I thought about offering $2000.00 ...



An engine that has few hours and has sat that long will develop leaks quickly. I know this from experience. Not with mills but with engines. Not a huge problem but you may be replacing seals and gaskets and scrathing your head saying "but this engine is like new!" You can quickly spend several hundred dollars more thatn you planned in a hurry.



chippin-in said:


> ... We are in the process of refinancing our house and hopefully that will allow me to get this mill. ... Anyways, your thoughts?


 
Just be careful. I can't give you this kind of advice other than to say do not expect to pay any bills with your mill for quite a while. A new mill is always a money pit unless you're already "in the business and making money" and even then it still can be. 

It's exciting to think about, but the numbers you are looking are almost 100% unrealistic if you're trying to justify buying the mill based on a 2-dimensional CPA view of it. 

Hope I don't come across as crass I'm just trying to be honest knowing you have a family to support. That's not to say you cannot make it work. Just saying . . . .


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## Mike1950

8 years in our dry climate and a motor might have troubles in that wet one??????


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## Kevin

Mike1950 said:


> 8 years in our dry climate and a motor might have troubles in that wet one??????



It's not motors it's engines. And it's not even engines its the cheap rubber in them Mike. When the alloys around the seals and gaskets expand and contract once restarted, the hardened seals and gaskets around them cannot flex properly. Yes they will fail to some degree. 

Even if an engine has not set unused for a while the gaskets and seals will fail eventually but not nearly as quickly as one that has sat unused.


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## Mike1950

My bad I know they are engines and the diff. If an engine gets left without turning it over once in a while it can rust in one spot and stick. I would assume it would be worse there. I agree also on gaskets drying out and rubber rotting.


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## chippin-in

Thanks for all the replies and advice. I figured it would take new seals/gaskets and the like. I would have to weigh the cost of repair/rebuild to just gettin a new one.

I am not lookin to use this as a business. It would be nice to be able to sell some stuff that I mill, but this will be mostly for me. If I make a little moola on the side..cool. 

Heck, I might just give the stuff away (dont get any ideas). I just want to cut into some logs and see whats inside. 

But first I got some convincing to do. :please2:

Robert


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## woodtickgreg

I would bet that most of the sawyers here started by just milling for themselves and it just kinda took off on them. I know how this happens, I started chainsaw milling for myself just to get wood for my projects and now I have so much wood that I give it away or sell it really cheap to make room for new wood. If you have mechanical skills I would snatch that mill up in a heartbeat. The kohler is a great engine, high quality japanese and parts are easy to obtain. If you can do the work yourself a complete gasket and seal kit is not that expensive, it's the labor to have someone do the work that will be expensive. Another good thing about tinkering with a project like this is it will teach you everything about your mill and you will become very familiar with it. If I had the funds and access to that mill I would snatch it up and get to rebuilding it as needed, I would make it like new, It's a good mill and you can get parts for it. One thing I like about the norwoods is the frame of the machine, if one of the sections of the bed frames gets damaged you can just unbolt it and bolt a new section on rather than replace the whole bed. It can be a hobby that might make you some money while you are having fun. In the grand scheme of things 2 or 3 grand is not alot of money for a woodworking machine, you can spend 3 to 5 grand or more on a good lathe and they don't produce their own wood! And then you will need a good jointer and planer too:sad:


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## Mizer

If you can swing the funds I say go for it. Kevin gave good advice about the sawmill business right now but it sounds like you are going into it for your own use and just the fun of it.


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## txpaulie

Good luck!

I may have room to store it at my place, once you get it runnin' well!

p


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## chippin-in

Well, it aint lookin too good right now from "her" standpoint. She gave me one of those "well just go ahead and get it. your gonna keep buggin me til I give in." 2 things I know about that answer: 1) if I do it, it will never be forgotten and I will constantly be remeinded of it. 2) thats why we have four kids :teethlaugh: 

I wont get it without her blessing. I just gotta work on getting the blessing. Without "buggin her til she gives in"...ooorrrrrr, buggin her til she gives in. 

We should know kinda soon, and when I know, yall will know.

Thanks
Robert


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## davidgiul

chippin-in said:


> Well, it aint lookin too good right now from "her" standpoint. She gave me one of those "well just go ahead and get it. your gonna keep buggin me til I give in." 2 things I know about that answer: 1) if I do it, it will never be forgotten and I will constantly be remeinded of it. 2) thats why we have four kids :teethlaugh:
> 
> I wont get it without her blessing. I just gotta work on getting the blessing. Without "buggin her til she gives in"...ooorrrrrr, buggin her til she gives in.
> 
> We should know kinda soon, and when I know, yall will know.
> 
> Thanks
> Robert



We have a saying when surfing big surf. If you gonna surf the big waves you gotta be ready to take the wipeout. The hold down can last a minute or more. Same applies here: are you ready to share a spot in the Cat's doghouse if you buy this machine?:davidguil:


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## Kevin

Stop talking about the sawmill. Give it a week or so and start talking about taking flying lessons and how you want to become a helicopter pilot. 

Take her to a swanky restaurant and personally seat her. Pay the maitre d' an extra $20 to say _"I must declare, I have not seen such chivalry in years. Most men are satisfied to have me seat their lovers, but you sir, are a cut above."_Tell her you want to mortgage the house and sell everything right after you graduate from pilot school so you can buy "a nice beater" and move the family to the Serengeti to start a charter operation. Ask her to start learning Swahili since you'll be too busy studying for your rotary wing rating. Spew all of this out in a fast barrage so she can't interrupt. Have a wild look in your eyes, bordering on evil and be almost breathless as you growl all of this out in a hushed, but sinister tone. Don't start your your verbal assault until right after she's taken a big bite of prime rib and horseradish that you lovingly fed her, "accidentally" almost knocking over the flower arrangement you had arranged prior. 

If you've ever had any interaction with any of the LEO pilots from Houston or the county etc. fall back on that and reminisce about how you've always dreamed of owning your own helicopter. Sure it's a little risky and there's a huge financial commitment but she could go along for joy rides especially on checkout flights after major repairs have been made, since those are the most exciting flights. _"I realize I may be experiencing some sort of midlife crisis honey but this has nothing to do with that. It's TOTALLY separate"_. And without catching your breath remind her that you can pick up a decent used helicopter for under $250,000 and if you pull all your resources together, sell everything, and sign a big fat loan with a precise business plan you think you can swing it. Your HPD helicopter buddies have key contacts and you can get a business loan. 

By the time she catches her breath and her head has stopped spinning she'll be asking you "But what about that sawmill idea you had? I thought that was a GREAT idea!"

Saving marriages and making dreams come true. Yep, that's my new found talent in life. Third one this week. 


Dr. Kev.


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## txpaulie

Kevin said:


> Stop talking about the sawmill. Give it a week or so and start talking about taking flying lessons and how you want to become a helicopter pilot.
> 
> Take her to a swanky restaurant and personally seat her. Pay the maitre d' an extra $20 to say _"I must declare, I have not seen such chivalry in years. Most men are satisfied to have me seat their lovers, but you sir, are a cut above."_Tell her you want to mortgage the house and sell everything right after you graduate from pilot school so you can buy "a nice beater" and move the family to the Serengeti to start a charter operation. Ask her to start learning Swahili since you'll be too busy studying for your rotary wing rating. Spew all of this out in a fast barrage so she can't interrupt. Have a wild look in your eyes, bordering on evil and be almost breathless as you growl all of this out in a hushed, but sinister tone. Don't start your your verbal assault until right after she's taken a big bite of prime rib and horseradish that you lovingly fed her, "accidentally" almost knocking over the flower arrangement you had arranged prior.
> 
> If you've ever had any interaction with any of the LEO pilots from Houston or the county etc. fall back on that and reminisce about how you've always dreamed of owning your own helicopter. Sure it's a little risky and there's a huge financial commitment but she could go along for joy rides especially on checkout flights after major repairs have been made, since those are the most exciting flights. _"I realize I may be experiencing some sort of midlife crisis honey but this has nothing to do with that. It's TOTALLY separate"_. And without catching your breath remind her that you can pick up a decent used helicopter for under $250,000 and if you pull all your resources together, sell everything, and sign a big fat loan with a precise business plan you think you can swing it. Your HPD helicopter buddies have key contacts and you can get a business loan.
> 
> By the time she catches her breath and her head has stopped spinning she'll be asking you "But what about that sawmill idea you had? I thought that was a GREAT idea!"
> 
> Saving marriages and making dreams come true. Yep, that's my new found talent in life. Third one this week.
> 
> 
> Dr. Kev.



Holy crap, Kevin, that's gold!:no dice. more please:

p


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## woodtickgreg

:rotflmao3: Kevin you really should be a writer! I think you have missed your calling!


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## Kevin

woodtickgreg said:


> :rotflmao3: Kevin you really should be a writer! I think you have missed your calling!



I didn't miss it. Writing is what I just did and I'm getting paid what it's worth.


:rotflmao3::teethlaugh::rotflmao3::teethlaugh::rotflmao3:

But I do appreciate the compliment. Let me know if you're having any issues you need help with.


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## chippin-in

Hey Kevin, that could work. When I was on nite shift I spent alot of time at hooks airport...you know, doin reports and other police related stuff :teethgrin:

They had coool stuff there, b29s,, p51, condor, it was like a field trip. Anyway, They give lessons...oh yeah they do!!!. I could have someone I know up there make a phone call in ref to my inquiry about lessons.

Thats pretty evil...I like it. 

BTW there is a woodmizer catalog enroute to my house just for effect. Just so she doesnt think ive given up.

Robert


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## Kevin

chippin-in said:


> ...
> BTW there is a woodmizer catalog enroute to my house just for effect. Just so she doesnt think ive given up.



Intercept and hide the WM catalogs. I will arrange to have your mailbox flooded with Aerotrader mags, African expat associations, survivalist training courses, and book promotions about how to deal with long-term separation from family and civilization. I'll even throw in this so she knows what's in store for her. 

You want this on your tab also?


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## Mike1950

Kevin, You are crazy and a $hit disturber Your wife is a patient woman. I know cause I have one myself.................


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## Kevin

Mike1950 said:


> Kevin, You are crazy and a $hit disturber Your wife is a patient woman. I know cause I have one myself.................



I have a patient wife that's for sure. But no scat in my act it's just all good clean fun.


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## woodtickgreg

So I guess if n you can't dazzle em with brilliance, baffle em with bs!


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## Kevin

Joe Rebuild said:


> I can just imagine how many times a week Terrie rolls her eyes and thinks :wtf1: here he goes again down the BS highway :rotflmao3::rotflmao3:
> 
> :ufw:
> 
> Good stuff though I bet you were a hoot in the CG.



"Terry" is my biggest supporter and biggest fan. Okay you have a point I guess that does make me a master BSer to have pulled that off. 



(Robert do you need a co-pilot/mechanic/avionicsman/navigator for that trip down to Africa?)


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## DKMD

I can't believe I haven't checked this thread in a while… I'm glad I finally did! Wow, the things I've learned in three short pages! This whole group is completely nuts… I love it!:lolol::lolol:


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## davidgiul

Kevin said:


> Joe Rebuild said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can just imagine how many times a week Terrie rolls her eyes and thinks :wtf1: here he goes again down the BS highway :rotflmao3::rotflmao3:
> 
> :ufw:
> 
> Good stuff though I bet you were a hoot in the CG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Terry" is my biggest supporter and biggest fan. Okay you have a point I guess that does make me a master BSer to have pulled that off.
> 
> 
> 
> (Robert do you need a co-pilot/mechanic/avionicsman/navigator for that trip down to Africa?)
Click to expand...

Yo Kevin,
That was one well written dissertation. What did you do in another life? Suzy and I had a good laugh together as we read your piece. We almost laughed as hard when we read :cof: reply about Missus Caveman's reading ability. Speaking of which has she read that post?? :davidguil:


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## chippin-in

Kevin, your were just kidding??!! 

So I shouldnt have started the plan yet?

Ooh, this is not good. Im either getting a sawmill, a helicopter or a divorce.

Thanks for your help.

Robert


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## Dane Fuller

chippin-in said:


> Kevin, your were just kidding??!!
> 
> So I shouldnt have started the plan yet?
> 
> Ooh, this is not good. Im either getting a sawmill, a helicopter or a divorce.
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Robert



Of the 3, the helicopter would be the least expensive... :rchelo:


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## Kevin

chippin-in said:


> Kevin, your were just kidding??!!
> 
> ...



Definitely kidding. bigcougers doghouse ain't big enough for all 3 of us.


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## chippin-in

Well....

I left the woodmizer catalog in the mailbox. My son brought the mail in and said "dad theres a wood thing in here for you". I said ok and acted like I was busy and not interested at the time, so he took it all to my wife. She looked at the mail, took the mail away and left "it" on the ottoman.

So the next day I get home frrom work and mill around the house for a while. Then get the catalog and start lookin. 15 minutes or so go by and she says "what are ypu lookin at". Like she doesnt know.

I said "a catalog". Of what? Oooooh sawmills. 

Then it started. 

I told her that I was going to get a mill, whether its tomorrow or in 10 years, but Im gettin one. She asked how much they were. I said the used one was about 2000-2500, new anywhere from 4000-9000 depending on the model. 

She still refused to entertain giving her blessing , even tho she said "you may as well go get one since your not gonna stop talking about. (I havent said a word since I started this post). I said your the one who asked me about it. 

I continued that when I retire, I want something to do. Im not just gonna sit on the couch and watch TV. Then she makes it sound like all I want to do is mill lumber when I retire and do nothing with her and the family. That couldnt be farther from the truth.

She doesnt understand the process, and I dont really think she cares to learn either. So I told her I would just go buy all the wood I need. A few more things were said but Ive bored yall enough. Yall got the picture.

Anyway, I let it go, vivsibly perturbed. However the subject will be revisited in the future.

I WILL HAVE A MILL. Someday. Just not sure when.

Thanks
Robert


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## Kevin

chippin-in said:


> ..... Then she makes it sound like all I want to do is mill lumber when I retire . . . She doesnt understand the process....



Yeah Robert, she understands it better than you do and that's why she's against it.


:rotflmao3:


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## chippin-in

Kevin said:


> chippin-in said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... Then she makes it sound like all I want to do is mill lumber when I retire . . . She doesnt understand the process....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah Robert, she understands it better than you do and that's why she's against it.
> 
> 
> :rotflmao3:
Click to expand...


I dont even have a mill and Im already in denial.

Thats just crazy


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## woodtickgreg

chippin-in said:


> she said "you may as well go get one since your not gonna stop talking about.


GREEN LIGHT! and I'm off to buy a mill:lolol: I remember when I got mine and all the attitude that came with it, and then she thought it was cool when we milled lumber together and she saw the beauty of every log we opened. And now she loves the furniture we have and the fact that I built it from trees that I milled. The only thing that keeps me from getting a band mill is where to store it. Then she had a fit when I borrowed some money from a friend to buy a lathe on craigslist, and now I have to sneak anything I turn out of the house if I want to sell it or give it away because she claims everything I make. She complains about any money I spend on tools but loves the things I make, go figure. IMHO just buy a mill, time will heal the wounds, especially when you make things for her! If you sell a few of the trees you mill it will pay for itself anyway. I can't live the life that she wants me to live, I have to follow my destiny and live my life too, I have to create and work with my hands, and milling is a part of that.


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## DKMD

This thread reminds me of how I got into woodworking…

My wife was pregnant with our first child(He's 6 now), and she wanted to go crib shopping. We went to a number of furniture stores, and every crib she liked was well over a thousand dollars(several were in the 2-3K range). I told her it seemed silly to pay that much for a crib when I could build one of better quality. I told her I'd build the crib if she'd let me get a table saw… She called my bluff!

We bought an old house that had a room paneled with old 4/4 walnut flooring on the walls. The prior residents had drilled holes in some of the boards for some kind of shelving system that they took with them. I took all of the boards down, and I used that walnut to build my son's crib. She loved the crib, and it's currently getting a second life with our second child. It's solid as a rock, and I have visions of passing it along to our children for use with grandchildren.

A matching side table was made for the baby's room then a sofa table for the living room. Since the shop was unheated at the time, I bought a little midi lathe to use in the sunroom during the winter just to keep busy… Now my table saw is mostly a cast iron staging area for turning related stuff.

I guess the moral of the story for the misses is that quality tools will pay for themselves, and I think a sawmill could easily be justified along those lines. The lumber costs for flatwork projects can be significant, so if you're serious about your woodworking, a little spent now could save you a bundle down the road.

I'm no Dr. Kevin, so you may want to stick with the 'helicopter' plan.:lolol:


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## davidgiul

DKMD said:


> This thread reminds me of how I got into woodworking…
> 
> My wife was pregnant with our first child(He's 6 now), and she wanted to go crib shopping. We went to a number of furniture stores, and every crib she liked was well over a thousand dollars(several were in the 2-3K range). I told her it seemed silly to pay that much for a crib when I could build one of better quality. I told her I'd build the crib if she'd let me get a table saw… She called my bluff!
> 
> We bought an old house that had a room paneled with old 4/4 walnut flooring on the walls. The prior residents had drilled holes in some of the boards for some kind of shelving system that they took with them. I took all of the boards down, and I used that walnut to build my son's crib. She loved the crib, and it's currently getting a second life with our second child. It's solid as a rock, and I have visions of passing it along to our children for use with grandchildren.
> 
> A matching side table was made for the baby's room then a sofa table for the living room. Since the shop was unheated at the time, I bought a little midi lathe to use in the sunroom during the winter just to keep busy… Now my table saw is mostly a cast iron staging area for turning related stuff.
> 
> I guess the moral of the story for the misses is that quality tools will pay for themselves, and I think a sawmill could easily be justified along those lines. The lumber costs for flatwork projects can be significant, so if you're serious about your woodworking, a little spent now could save you a bundle down the road.
> 
> I'm no Dr. Kevin, so you may want to stick with the 'helicopter' plan.:lolol:



That is a well written synopsis on how you became addicted to wood. Could be the start of a new thread, "How I got started in the wood business."


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## Kevin

davidgiul said:


> ... "How I got started in the wood business."



Nice way of saying it there Dave. Sort of like saying _"How I got started in the hobby of daily alcohol & heroin consumption."_


:rotflmao3:


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## davidgiul

chippin-in said:


> Well....
> 
> I left the woodmizer catalog in the mailbox. My son brought the mail in and said "dad theres a wood thing in here for you". I said ok and acted like I was busy and not interested at the time, so he took it all to my wife. She looked at the mail, took the mail away and left "it" on the ottoman.
> 
> So the next day I get home frrom work and mill around the house for a while. Then get the catalog and start lookin. 15 minutes or so go by and she says "what are ypu lookin at". Like she doesnt know.
> 
> I said "a catalog". Of what? Oooooh sawmills.
> 
> Then it started.
> 
> I told her that I was going to get a mill, whether its tomorrow or in 10 years, but Im gettin one. She asked how much they were. I said the used one was about 2000-2500, new anywhere from 4000-9000 depending on the model.
> 
> She still refused to entertain giving her blessing , even tho she said "you may as well go get one since your not gonna stop talking about. (I havent said a word since I started this post). I said your the one who asked me about it.
> 
> I continued that when I retire, I want something to do. Im not just gonna sit on the couch and watch TV. Then she makes it sound like all I want to do is mill lumber when I retire and do nothing with her and the family. That couldnt be farther from the truth.
> 
> She doesnt understand the process, and I dont really think she cares to learn either. So I told her I would just go buy all the wood I need. A few more things were said but Ive bored yall enough. Yall got the picture.
> 
> Anyway, I let it go, vivsibly perturbed. However the subject will be revisited in the future.
> 
> I WILL HAVE A MILL. Someday. Just not sure when.
> 
> Thanks
> Robert


For a marriage to work, compromises have to be made and mistakes forgiven. I personally think you should buy the mill of choice and she should be happy for you. We are not talking about a lot of money. It doesn't sound like you blow your money on drugs or booze. You don't go to the local bar and spend the weeks' check on rounds for everyone. You don't hang out at the racetrack with the grocery money. In all seriousness, the wood bug is addicting, but it is a healthy addiction(oxymoron here). For many of us, the love of wood is what helps us get through the day. Just ask Cougar.


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## DKMD

Kevin said:


> davidgiul said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... "How I got started in the wood business."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice way of saying it there Dave. Sort of like saying _"How I got started in the hobby of daily alcohol & heroin consumption."_
> 
> 
> :rotflmao3:
Click to expand...


The alcohol and heroin are mainly to keep me from thinking about wood all the time... I can quit anytime(the heroin not the wood)!:lolol:


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## txpaulie

I love this thread!

It comes down to the reality of: "It's easier to get forgiveness, than it is get permission."

My wife and I use this method often...

Good luck!

p


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## davidgiul

txpaulie said:


> I love this thread!
> 
> It comes down to the reality of: "It's easier to get forgiveness, than it is get permission."
> 
> My wife and I use this method often...
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> p


Funny, that works for Suzy and me too. How long have you been fighting with the same woman?:davidguil:
Back to thread:One portable bandsaw mill sold to Chippin-in.


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## davidgiul

davidgiul said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Rebuild said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can just imagine how many times a week Terrie rolls her eyes and thinks :wtf1: here he goes again down the BS highway :rotflmao3::rotflmao3:
> 
> :ufw:
> 
> Good stuff though I bet you were a hoot in the CG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Terry" is my biggest supporter and biggest fan. Okay you have a point I guess that does make me a master BSer to have pulled that off.
> 
> 
> 
> (Robert do you need a co-pilot/mechanic/avionicsman/navigator for that trip down to Africa?)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yo Kevin,
> That was one well written dissertation. What did you do in another life? Suzy and I had a good laugh together as we read your piece. We almost laughed as hard when we read :cof: reply about Missus Caveman's reading ability. Speaking of which has she read that post?? :davidguil:
Click to expand...

I snuck into the hospital and got this picture of Kevin after Terry had read Kevin's dissertation on how to buy a saw mill. I guess this well illustrates the results of a wife-attack.
[attachment=6124]
:davidguil:


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## chippin-in

Hey David, Thats what forgiveness looks like at my house


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## Kevin

Just another day at the office boys. Yeah. Would someone please kill this damn fly that keeps landing on my toes!


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## DKMD

I'd like to thank you for placing that towel so carefully before taking the photo!


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## Kevin

DKMD said:


> I'd like to thank you for placing that towel so carefully before taking the photo!



Ground Zero yeah.


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## davidgiul

chippin-in said:


> Hey David, Thats what forgiveness looks like at my house


I can now understand your hesitancy to the idea of purchasing a sawmill.


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