# upgrading the Nova 1624



## duncsuss (Feb 24, 2017)

I've been trying to get my hands on the Nova "motor upgrade package" for a while now, but they never seemed to be in stock. At the end of January I learned a shipment was expected to arrive in the US "in the next couple of weeks" so I phoned my Woodcraft store manager and asked him to get an order on the books.

This replaces the stock motor with a DVR unit -- still driven through the belt & pulley system that was used to change speeds, but now with variable speed and programmable speeds, etc, the same as the DVR lathe has. I can also drop the belt onto any of the slower speed positions to get more torque if needed (or a ridiculously slow minimum speed!)

I collected it Wednesday -- no need to ask me what plans I have for the weekend!

Reactions: Like 5 | Way Cool 11


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## woodtickgreg (Feb 24, 2017)

Very cool! Be sure to take pics of the process so others can learn from it.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## duncsuss (Feb 24, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> Very cool! Be sure to take pics of the process so others can learn from it.


The instruction manual that ships with it seems to be very well documented -- each step gets a photo and a sentence or two.

The part that seems a bit cryptic is the "now you've installed it, how the heck do you drive this thing?" section. It tells you how to change various control parameters, but not why you would want to. "ktint+/-kprop", "speed ramp", "braking function", "accelerometer X/Y/Z" ... stuff like that

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Jerry B (Feb 24, 2017)

I too had been trying for a long time to get that motor unit for my 1624 ......... I finally gave up on it 
I loved the idea with the lower belt setting that it'd be able to turn as slow as 50 rpm ....... great for applying CA finishes ....
will be waiting to hear your impressions of unit/installation/etc. to determine if I want to pursue getting it again
else I'm just going to upgrade to a different VS lathe

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## duncsuss (Feb 24, 2017)

I'm kind of stubborn when it comes to things I really want 

The documentation says the slowest motor speed is 50 rpm but I don't know what that translates to at the spindle. Normally you'd have the belt set at 1440, by dropping onto one of the lower pulley positions you can go even slower.


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## DKMD (Feb 24, 2017)

Cool! I wish my lathe would turn at 25-50 rpm for sanding... the current 125 minimum is still too fast for some applications.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## David Hill (Feb 24, 2017)

I know you'll like the VS. Have that on my 2 bigger lathes, it's a nice feature. For now though, think I'll keep my 1624 _au naturel._

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## rocky1 (Feb 24, 2017)

duncsuss said:


> The instruction manual that ships with it seems to be very well documented -- each step gets a photo and a sentence or two.
> 
> The part that seems a bit cryptic is the "now you've installed it, how the heck do you drive this thing?" section. It tells you how to change various control parameters, but not why you would want to. "ktint+/-kprop", "speed ramp", "braking function", "accelerometer X/Y/Z" ... stuff like that





Duncan I have just enough experience there to tell you that they can test that drive and set it up to a given set of parameters to fit that motor, but that doesn't take into account the load produced by your lathe, and that will differ to some extent on each machine, and effectively to what you turn with it. That being said, someone turning bowls is going to need to adjust it so that they have a little more low end torque and ramp up a little more slowly than someone turning nothing but pens. If it tries to start to fast with a pen, it isn't going to affect to much because there really isn't a lot of load there to turn. If it tries to start to fast with a large bowl blank on there, it'll draw too much amperage, overload the circuit and trip the safeties in the drive shutting it down. 

Speed ramp, again... with pen stock you can ramp it up faster, not a big deal. With bowl stock, you would want to ramp you speed up a little slower. Same holds true for braking function, pen stock you can shut down rather quickly without worrying about inertia causing undo stresses and launching anything, bowl stock you would want a slower softer brake on it.

Adjustments of that nature are typically made by turning a little screw in the middle of a little round or square box, commonly referred to a potentiometer, or "pot" for short. Little can go a long ways there! Should be a section on trouble shooting in the manual too, if you look at problems listed there, you should see symptoms you might experience explained, that will address adjustments to each of those pots under a given fault. 

And, hopefully there is an 800 number you can call to talk with someone that understands all of that, and you don't run into the bat guana I did working on the drive on our extractor, where I got "the technician that handles that is out of the office this week", "Man Iwish I could help, I'm a little familiar with VFDs having wired a few irrigators up, but without prints I don't know anymore than you do.", and "We just sell them the boards, we're not sure what sort of parameters you should be looking at in their application. If I had a set of prints for the drive and what they are doing with our boards I could help you out, but without prints, not much I can do for you." I found the answer in the trouble shooting guide for a drive that had never been on the machine, that used the same boards and made it work.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Useful 1


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## rocky1 (Feb 24, 2017)

Does it monitor output RPMS at the drive/motor, or does it actually measure RPMs at the spindle Duncun?


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## duncsuss (Feb 24, 2017)

rocky1 said:


> Does it monitor output RPMS at the drive/motor, or does it actually measure RPMs at the spindle Duncun?


I don't know how it can measure anything except the motor rpm -- from what I can see, there is no sensor on the spindle (as in, "beyond the belt and pulleys"). They'd have to guess which pulley the belt is on to work out the spindle rpm.

(In contrast, the DVR-XP lathe is a direct drive unit, where the rotor and the drive spindle of the lathe are the same piece of machined steel. This is the DVR motor replacing the 1624 original motor, the headstock is unchanged.)

There is no potentiometer to fiddle with here -- it's all programmed in the microcontroller (an Atmel chip -- for no good reason I actually tried programming some of their chips once, probably still have the development kit lying around someplace).

Allegedly, the control algorithms are able to determine the rotational inertia of the workpiece and adjust the power feed to the stator windings to make things run smoothly.


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## rocky1 (Feb 25, 2017)

Ahhh... I see. It's calculating RPMs based on output of the drive itself. Just so you can set up a spreadsheet and build a cheat sheet. 

Although you could buy a cheap handheld unit, and save yourself more than it costs, in aggravation building the spreadsheet.

Portable Tachometer

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## duncsuss (Feb 25, 2017)

That's something I never paid much attention to -- I've always judged speed based on how it feels when I'm turning. "too fast", "too slow" and "I can work with this" are the only 3 speeds I've bothered with. The handheld tacho looks neat though, I might get one anyway

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## rocky1 (Feb 25, 2017)

Me either, there's simply turning speed and sanding speed, although bowl blanks could have an impact on the former of the two. But having contemplated variable speed conversion on my Grizzly, those questions all came to mind. I found universal conversion kits cheap enough, but then the RPMs reported are motor (_actually VFD output_) only, they don't measure speed at the spindle, so are absolutely useless through gear drive setup. There are universal kits out there with photo tach sensor that will measure speed at the spindle, but they're a little more. 

However, time I get into all of that, I'm not far off the price of a NEW similar sized Variable Speed Grizzly Lathe, rather than one that's going to need the bearings replaced in the spindle in the near future, and a tailstock that could stand a little tightening up to. By which time I have more than the cost of a new machine into an old lathe, but at the same time I have 5 speeds on a variable speed which may really be cool.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## duncsuss (Feb 26, 2017)

That was a surprisingly smooth task: the instructions were very close to being complete -- they missed the fact that the control box is mounted to a bracket that must be bolted to the motor housing, but they had supplied the Allen bolts and washers for the job so I didn't have to make a trip to the hardware store.

The power cord seems to be 4" shorter than the one on the 1624 motor -- which of course meant that I had to shuffle things in the shop and move the lathe bed closer to the wall outlet. When I bought the lathe, I fitted wheels to all four legs -- so moving it was just a matter of kicking down the caster hinge plates till I got it in position, then flipping the wheels up again. (Almost makes it look like I knew what I was doing!) I ran it through a couple of menus, saw that it could turn the spindle, and stopped for lunch.

I still have to figure out where I'm going to put the box of junk that I had to move out of the way, but that's not important -- unlike turning a bowl, which was a matter of extreme urgency by this point.

When I first powered on with the ash blank mounted, it was of course too fast and the lathe was jumping around. Very nice to be able to dial it down to 300rpm, where it was steady, and simply begin making shavings.

The rotary dial is great, but the touch-buttons don't work as well as I would like -- they need to implement some de-bounce logic, such that it doesn't take my half-second press as a continuous stream of clicks. (Switching from forward to reverse, and from one menu item to another, is very sensitive to how long you hold the button pressed -- it shouldn't be, IMO.)

Anyway -- here's the motor mounted on the lathe, and the first turning with it ... ash, about 9" on the long axis, 5" high. I have to clean up the foot and put some finish on it, not sure what that's going to be yet.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 1


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## rocky1 (Feb 27, 2017)

Got anything nearby you could mount it to besides the lathe? If not, go industrial on it, mount a post to adjacent bench, or mount a metal post to the floor.


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## duncsuss (Feb 27, 2017)

rocky1 said:


> Got anything nearby you could mount it to besides the lathe? If not, go industrial on it, mount a post to adjacent bench, or mount a metal post to the floor.


I'm confused ... why would I want to do that? It seems okay with the controller mounted on the motor, is there anything wrong with having it this way?


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## rocky1 (Feb 28, 2017)

> The rotary dial is great, but the touch-buttons don't work as well as I would like -- they need to implement some de-bounce logic, such that it doesn't take my half-second press as a continuous stream of clicks. (Switching from forward to reverse, and from one menu item to another, is very sensitive to how long you hold the button pressed -- it shouldn't be, IMO.)



de-bounce logic... Merely a suggestion. I'm guessing your controller is vibrating slightly with the lathe running. While it may not be enough for you to feel it; it's enough the board on the controller sees it. If solidly mounted to something off the lathe, you wouldn't see the issue you mention above. I'm with you, the controller shouldn't be that sensitive, but mounting it independently would eliminate issues with vibration.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## duncsuss (Feb 28, 2017)

rocky1 said:


> de-bounce logic... Merely a suggestion. I'm guessing your controller is vibrating slightly with the lathe running. While it may not be enough for you to feel it; it's enough the board on the controller sees it. If solidly mounted to something off the lathe, you wouldn't see the issue you mention above. I'm with you, the controller shouldn't be that sensitive, but mounting it independently would eliminate issues with vibration.


Nope. This is with the lathe stopped -- I'm not the sort of person who would try to change from forward to reverse without stopping first 

"De-bounce" maybe is not the right term. When I wrote code for a microcontroller, I had to construct the program in such a way that it treated a button press as a "single click" (in other words, it had to see me release the button before acting as if I'd pressed the button again.) The way it is working now is like a computer key when you adjust the Keyboard Properties to have zero delay before it repeats the keystroke -- it's virtually impossible to generate a single keystroke.

The guy at Nova technical support has opened a ticket, and expects that he'll be sending me a replacement controller card.

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## rocky1 (Feb 28, 2017)

Oh!! Yeah, that's not good if it's doing that with it not running.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## duncsuss (Mar 12, 2017)

Nova sent me a replacement controller, it arrived Friday.

The replacement unit does have a newer program installed, but as the saying goes, "There's good news and bad news."

*Good news*: when I press the buttons, it waits longer before entering "repeat keystroke mode", long enough that I can get my finger off the button before it starts the repeats.

*Bad news*: it has a new bug, when I press one of the "Preset Speed" buttons it thinks I'm asking to change the value stored in the preset and requires me to press "Confirm" before actually changing the speed. It also seems to have some instability -- as I was increasing the speed using the rotary dial, at one point the display went blank and most keys became unresponsive.

I changed back to the original controller and tested to see if it also behaved that way -- it does not. Pressing "F1" simply sets the speed to the stored value, and I haven't seen any instability.

Now I must decide which of these bugs is more irritating.

On one side, what's the point of having a quick-select button if it takes longer to use than simply dialling the speed setting with the rotary knob?

On the other side, at least I can change from forward to reverse without having to try multiple times.

I'll be on the phone to customer support again tomorrow.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Sincere 2


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 12, 2017)

Bummer, I know you will get it straightened out though.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## rocky1 (Mar 12, 2017)

Definitely NOT a step in the right direction. Good grief!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## duncsuss (Mar 13, 2017)

I just got off the phone with Teknatool customer support. After I explained the (new) issues, he did a quick check with one of his co-workers, then offered to send me a complete replacement -- both controller and motor (return freight paid, of course).

Honestly, I can't fault their customer support -- just wish I didn't have to use it!

I emailed them my notes on the new controller, and links to videos showing the original controller problem and the replacement controller problem. It might help them diagnose the bugs if they can see it (rather than have to guess what I mean, words often mean something different when people hear me attempt to explain something.)

Reactions: Way Cool 1


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 13, 2017)

That's great customer support, even though it is frustrating for you. I bet it is equally as frustrating for them because they are trying to help a customer and keep having setbacks themselves. Kudos to them for taking care of you and sending you another complete unit.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## rocky1 (Mar 13, 2017)

Ridiculous to have to go through it all, but long as they keep trying until they make it right, all is well. Were I them, along about this point, I'd be hooking a motor and controller up and verifying correct function before shipment. You have to know, you can't be getting ALL of the bad drives they've got, there has to be others going through the same thing, somewhere.


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## duncsuss (Mar 13, 2017)

That's what I was thinking too, these don't have to be connected to a lathe to see that the spindle turns, you can switch to reverse, change speed, etc. 

I can't see how the motor is at fault here, I'm fairly certain the problems are in the code in the microcontroller unit, but since they want to send a complete replacement that's okay with me.


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## rocky1 (Mar 13, 2017)

Process of elimination from miles away, I'm sure. They've had 2 failed controllers on that motor, so it's iffy in the equation. Different symptoms, but if they're different controllers they might react differently to motor issues. Iffy! Not likely! Doesn't matter! At this point they are doing exactly that. Setting a motor and controller up, making absolutely certain that it works properly BEFORE it leaves the shop, and sending you a tested set.

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## duncsuss (May 12, 2017)

Status Update ...

@Woodworking Vet asked me how the motor upgrade is going. I was hesitant to answer at the time because things were somewhat up in the air.

The replacement motor and controller that came about 3 weeks ago were identical to the units I got from Woodcraft -- which I expected the instant I turned on the power and saw the version number on the display.

I left the "first replacement" controller on my lathe -- the one which allowed me to change from forward to reverse, and control the speed using the rotary adjustment knob. The speed presets are basically useless when the lathe is running, but can be used to set the speed before starting it turning.

I wrote to Nova and told them this, and asked if fixes for the issues would be incorporated into a future program version. What came back wasn't positive news: I felt like they were saying "it is what it is." 

When @Woodworking Vet asked me of my experience, I was in the process of composing an email saying I was disappointed the engineering team did not seem to take these issues seriously, and maybe I should return the unit.

Anyway, I sent that email to Nova three days ago. Yesterday I got an email apologizing for my disappointment, and for giving me the impression they were not working on new controller code. They have a new version close to release, and they would let me know today if it's being made available.

I offered to install the new program myself, if this is something that doesn't require special equipment and/or a lengthy training class, since shipping these things around the country is neither cheap nor fast.

They sent me the controller software and a simple write-up on how to perform the software upgrade/installation -- but it needs a USB cable with a special plug on the end that attaches to the controller card, so I have to wait for that to arrive.

In other words: I'm a lot more positive about the situation today than I was 3 days ago. Even if the code that I just got is not 100% (and honestly, when is software ever 100%?) I'm hopeful that it will improve the issues that have been preventing me from taking full advantage of the motor upgrade.

I'll add to this thread when I find out if things have improved.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2


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## Woodworking Vet (May 12, 2017)

Thank you for the update, looking forward to how the software update works out.


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## duncsuss (May 31, 2017)

They mailed me the cable that plugs onto pins on the circuit board, so on the weekend I installed the software update.

This version of the controller code (version p2.10c) has so far worked very well:

1) there's a delay between touching the Forward/Reverse button, so I can get my finger off before it starts flipping back and forth;

2) the F1 - F2 - F3 - F4 preset speed keys still require a confirmation click, but since each key has multiple presets it does make some sense to me. The F1 key rotates through presets #1 - #5 - #9; the F2 key rotates through presets #2 - #6 - #10; etc. (It would not be good to change speed to 2400rpm when you thought you were changing to 500rpm.)

3) in version p2.10a there was a display bug, when the lathe was running if you pressed one of the F-keys the "speed you are about to change to" did not display so asking for a confirmation was like asking you to guess the next speed. Version p2.10c has fixed this problem.

I'm glad that I had the patience to wait for this to be fixed -- the way it's working now is *so* much easier to use than stopping the lathe to move the belt to a different pulley.

Of course I wish it had not taken so long to get here, but finally -- it's working.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 3


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## woodtickgreg (May 31, 2017)

So I guess good things do come to those that wait.

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