# Saw Parts



## djg (Sep 8, 2013)

I've got an 038 that I need to replace the muffler. It's the original one, so I believe it's single ported. Bailey's sells a dual ported one that's half the price for a single ported muffler I could get from the local repair shop.
A couple of questions:
1) Does extra porting cause the saw to run hotter? (because of higher rpms?)
2) Does the carburation need to be adjusted?
3) If the replacement is not a Stihl brand, would you be leary of using an after market product?

4) Does anyone have a reliable source for parts?

Thanks


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 8, 2013)

djg said:


> I've got an 038 that I need to replace the muffler. It's the original one, so I believe it's single ported. Bailey's sells a dual ported one that's half the price for a single ported muffler I could get from the local repair shop.
> A couple of questions:
> 1) Does extra porting cause the saw to run hotter? (because of higher rpms?)
> 2) Does the carburation need to be adjusted?
> ...


When they are talking about single or dual port, they are really talking about the cylinder and it's port configuration, the muffler needs to be matched up to the cylinder. A single port cylinder needs a single port muffler etc, it's the shape of the port that needs to be matched. I would not be concerned with an aftermarket muffler. And depending on how much or little back pressure the muffler makes the carb might need to be adjusted. I am of the belief that unless the savings is substantial to just use oem parts. I would think that there would be a power equipment dealer near you that carries Stihl, Stihl is everywhere around me. When you go to order parts at a dealer take the saw with you so they can get whatever numbers off the saw that they need, when ordering parts numbers are very important, model n serial etc.


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## jimmyjames (Sep 8, 2013)

From my experience the single and dual port mufflers both work on the same saw, the dual port muffler is an option on a lot of still saws, they sell them at the St IHL dealer and are a bolt on upgrade, it allows the exhaust to flow more, but after installing it you have to tune the saw for the added flow, this is a very common upgrade on the St IHL 660's, a Stihl 660 with the dual port muffler and tuned correctly runs as good as the 880 or better, my friend with the Alaskan mill and the 880 has both, says the 660 with the dual port and tuned runs harder than the 880 . If you search the web there's a ton of folks that do this upgrade, if you do the upgrade be sure to get it tuned, if you don't you will have less power than when you had the single port. The dual port muffler is just the cover for the muffler, it doesn't include the entire muffler, just the cover with 2 outlets versus the stock 1 outlet.


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 8, 2013)

jimmyjames said:


> From my experience the single and dual port mufflers both work on the same saw, the dual port muffler is an option on a lot of still saws, they sell them at the St IHL dealer and are a bolt on upgrade, it allows the exhaust to flow more, but after installing it you have to tune the saw for the added flow, this is a very common upgrade on the St IHL 660's, a Stihl 660 with the dual port muffler and tuned correctly runs as good as the 880 or better, my friend with the Alaskan mill and the 880 has both, says the 660 with the dual port and tuned runs harder than the 880 . If you search the web there's a ton of folks that do this upgrade, if you do the upgrade be sure to get it tuned, if you don't you will have less power than when you had the single port. The dual port muffler is just the cover for the muffler, it doesn't include the entire muffler, just the cover with 2 outlets versus the stock 1 outlet.


Seriously? It's just a dual outlet cover to increase the flow? Then yes it definitely would need a carb adjustment. Learn something everyday.


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## jimmyjames (Sep 8, 2013)

woodtickgreg said:


> jimmyjames said:
> 
> 
> > From my experience the single and dual port mufflers both work on the same saw, the dual port muffler is an option on a lot of still saws, they sell them at the St IHL dealer and are a bolt on upgrade, it allows the exhaust to flow more, but after installing it you have to tune the saw for the added flow, this is a very common upgrade on the St IHL 660's, a Stihl 660 with the dual port muffler and tuned correctly runs as good as the 880 or better, my friend with the Alaskan mill and the 880 has both, says the 660 with the dual port and tuned runs harder than the 880 . If you search the web there's a ton of folks that do this upgrade, if you do the upgrade be sure to get it tuned, if you don't you will have less power than when you had the single port. The dual port muffler is just the cover for the muffler, it doesn't include the entire muffler, just the cover with 2 outlets versus the stock 1 outlet.
> ...



Yep its just the cover, a little piece of tin for roughly $50-$80 depending on where you buy it, tje stihl mufflers are 2 or 3 seperate pieces, many guys just drill out there muffler but takes some planning and thinking to do it right.


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 8, 2013)

jimmyjames said:


> woodtickgreg said:
> 
> 
> > jimmyjames said:
> ...


Cool stuff, many people don't know that you can tune a 2 stroke motor not only with the carb but also with the exhaust. I have thought about building an expansion chamber pipe for my mill since it is dedicated to that task. Maybe a big fat pipe to create more torque, it would sound cool too.


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## djg (Sep 8, 2013)

Thanks for all your replies. I just saw the thread about aftermarket engines and alot applies here. I was looking at a NWP muffler, but when I took the old muffler off today, none of the numbers match up. I think I'll give Bailey's a call tomorrow.

Back to one of my original questions. Does the extra MUFFLER portage increase the rpms and make the saw run hotter? I don't generally work on my own saws, but the shop I go to had mine last time for 3 - 4 months when I couldn't get it started. When I finally got it back, it wouldn't idle, but it did run. They kind of joke about my antique and cring a little when I bring it back for service. Plus the bill last time was a lot higher than I expected. Usually they do a good job at a fair price. Maybe they're just pushing me to get a new saw. Out of the question for now.


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## Kevin (Sep 8, 2013)

You have to re-tune the carb whenever you do a muffler mod to a saw, and replacing any OEM muffler with an after market muffler that creates a different flow volume is, a muffler modification too. I don't know a lot about small engines compared to Greg and others but I did my own muffler mods and read a ton of stuff about it on arboristsite years ago before I did my first one.


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 8, 2013)

djg said:


> Thanks for all your replies. I just saw the thread about aftermarket engines and alot applies here. I was looking at a NWP muffler, but when I took the old muffler off today, none of the numbers match up. I think I'll give Bailey's a call tomorrow.
> 
> Back to one of my original questions. Does the extra MUFFLER portage increase the rpms and make the saw run hotter? I don't generally work on my own saws, but the shop I go to had mine last time for 3 - 4 months when I couldn't get it started. When I finally got it back, it wouldn't idle, but it did run. They kind of joke about my antique and cring a little when I bring it back for service. Plus the bill last time was a lot higher than I expected. Usually they do a good job at a fair price. Maybe they're just pushing me to get a new saw. Out of the question for now.


That's a complex question as many things can happen when changes are made to a saw. A muffler mod can increase the exhaust flow ( that's usually what the purpose of a muffler mod is). When flow is increased and back pressure reduced the saw can run lean, and when a 2 stroke runs lean bad things can happen in a hurry, like a seizure. That is why a carb adjustment or as some people call it a tune is needed. Any change to a 2 stroke requires careful tuning. The purpose of the adjustment is two fold, to reach proper rpm ( not to high or to low) and richen the fuel mix to eliminate the lean burn. A rich mixture will also cool the saw. All my saws are set to run rich, and I run all my saws 40:1 gas oil mix. And high quality oil too. A lean burn is what is hot. I tune by ear and with a tach for rpm. 3 months to repair a saw and then it wont idle ?.....I call that not running, I would be looking for a new repair shop. They don't want to work on your old saw? Ridiculous, the old saws are easier to tune and run better than the new saws. I hope this answers your question.
Greg


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## djg (Sep 8, 2013)

I apologize for dragging this thread on and on. I don't use a saw everyday like most of you do, just firewood for my family. I'd really rather not have to tune the saw myself (I'll screw it up) if I had to go with the dual ported muffler, so I'm now looking for an exact replacement.

The numbers on the back of the inlet casing is: *1119/05 c J A*

That's all; none on the exit casing either.

These numbers don't match any of the four that I found on a parts list (internet) and serching there also doesn't get me any where either.

Any thoughts

If I can't do this what should be a simple job myself, there is another shop in the area I could take it to as a last resort.

Thanks[/size]


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 9, 2013)

What model is your saw? Is it so old that the dealer does not carry parts for it anymore? If that is the case then maybe you should just by the after market muffler and pony up the cash to get it worked on by a competent mechanic. Ebay can be a good source for used parts as well. Is your muffler damaged?


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## djg (Sep 9, 2013)

I have an 038. It was purchased in the 80's and supposedly was one of the saws still made in Germany at the time.

The *1119/05 c J* A stamped on the inlet casing I'm guessing is shortened for *1119 007 1005* whick is the part number for the standard muffler kit. I checked ebay earlier, and I think they had one with that number. It might have been Chineese, though. I'm still going to check with Bailey's. So in short, I plan on doing what you're suggesting; buy an after market part and then take it to a different shop for a tune up.


Thanks

Edit: One of the corners of the cover flange (mounting holes) is broken/burned off. The strap on top the that the exit cover bolts to, is missing also. A bigger hole is there now where the screw used to go. It's time for a new one.


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## djg (Sep 9, 2013)

I found one muffler, supposedly OEM, that was listed as 1119 007 *1006* (not *1005* as listed for standard kit). It also has the 1119/05 listed as a secondary number which is the same as what's stamped on my old muffler. I can't find the 1006 number on my parts list. Anyone know anything about the numbering system? Are they the same thing (1006 vs 1005)?

Also the new one in question doesn't have the baffle (sheet metal plate with holes spot welded on)on the exit casing like my old one does. Is this a problem? Am I over-thinking this whole thing?

Thanks


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 9, 2013)

djg said:


> Also the new one in question doesn't have the baffle (sheet metal plate with holes spot welded on)on the exit casing like my old one does. Is this a problem? Am I over-thinking this whole thing?
> 
> Thanks



I really don't think the plate/baffle will make much difference, it might be a little louder. The baffle is for sound deadening. You should still have the carb adjusted on the saw after the muffler is installed with a new gasket. And there is nothing wrong with being careful/overthinking and getting the right parts. Have you looked into just ordering a new muffler from a stihl dealer? 
Just a thought......are you going to install the muffler? If you are then when you remove the old one look at the piston through the exhaust port and see if it has any scratches on it, the reason I suggest this is because you said the saw won't idle, piston damage could cause that also.


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## djg (Sep 9, 2013)

woodtickgreg said:


> ..... You should still have the carb adjusted on the saw after the muffler is installed with a new gasket. ......... Have you looked into just ordering a new muffler from a stihl dealer?
> 
> Just a thought......are you going to install the muffler? If you are then when you remove the old one *look at the piston through the exhaust port *and see if it has any scratches on it, the reason I suggest this is because you said the saw won't idle, piston damage could cause that also.



The Stihl part was like $90, but I've found one on ebay for around $30.
I was going to install it myself and the take it to the new shop and have them tune it. But based on your good suggestion about inspecting the piston, I may leave it off and let him inspect/install it. One less thing for me to screw up. I think I need a helicoil put in one of the muffler mounting holes on the saw's body, so I'll let him do that too.

Thanks again for all your help.

P.S. I got a return email from Stihl on the part number confusion. The old 1005/1006 is replaced by the new 1027 number, if any body is interested.


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