# Vacuum pump problems! Help please



## Turnedaround (Sep 16, 2022)

Hello all, 
I have been working on several projects for awhile now knife scales , pen blanks etc and I will give you a run down of what I do so you better understand my frustration. 
1. I find the wood and let it dry out doors as I currently do not have a kiln ( sorry for spelling ) I have some wood that’s been in a shed for 10-15 years 
2. I do not use any oily woods or really sappy wood 
3. With this last vacuum pump I changed the oil after each use, believe it or not the pump did not last 40 days before it froze up solid

and that is what my problem is the pumps get incased with junk and it rusts the pump solid , so I try to make something in the chamber pot several times a month so the pump is being used and not just sitting idle

so does the oil need to be drained after each use and left out until ready to use again? 
would an in-line desiccant dryer / filter work in tandem with a resin trap tank ?

here are some photos of the pump after I’ve cleaned the outside a bit , the inside you cannot really see it but there’s gunk all over that does not allow the little piston to turn or the flaps to move as they are going around the wall


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## Turnedaround (Sep 16, 2022)

One other thing all that black stuff laying around the parts was what encased the pump


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## Fsyxxx (Sep 16, 2022)

What are you using in the pot with the wood?


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## 2feathers Creative Making (Sep 16, 2022)

Resin traps are needed always! The wood that you are using should likely be dried in an oven before you use it. A vacuum pump will vaporize the last 8 to 12 percent of moisture in the pieces and pull it into the pump. I am not a resin / vacuum pump user but I have both items in my possession and have done hours of research on the subject... also known as reading other folks comments

Reactions: Like 2


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## DLJeffs (Sep 16, 2022)

It appears your pump is sucking the stabilizing resin into the works. As you've probably noticed, when you first start to apply the vacuum, the wood bubbles and foams a lot and if you aren't careful that foam can be sucked into the pump. Both of the stabilizing fluids I've used have very prominent warnings about preventing the resin from getting into your pump.

I use a secondary container for my wood, which I fill with resin and use weights to keep the wood from floating. My vacuum hoses attach on the top of the vacuum chamber, which ensures there is an air gap. I always apply vacuum in slow increments, and watch to see if the wood foams a lot and if it does I cut back the vacuum until it subsides. Once the foaming drops way down, I can increase to full vacuum.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Informative 1


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## Schroedc (Sep 16, 2022)

Consider going to a system where you run your vac on dry until full vacuum amd then introduce the resin. I have a valve on my lid with a hose, I suck it all down, close the valve from pump to chamber, stick the hose into the jug of resin, open the valve and let the vacuum draw the resin in, then close the valve, reopen the vacuum line slowly and let run more. Has kept my pump way cleaner and I haven't had to rebuild it in 3+ years. I do also change the oil after each run and I pull the new oil into the pump by drawing it through the vacuum line so it coats the inside of the pump.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1 | Useful 1


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## Turnedaround (Sep 16, 2022)

Schroedc said:


> Consider going to a system where you run your vac on dry until full vacuum amd then introduce the resin. I have a valve on my lid with a hose, I suck it all down, close the valve from pump to chamber, stick the hose into the jug of resin, open the valve and let the vacuum draw the resin in, then close the valve, reopen the vacuum line slowly and let run more. Has kept my pump way cleaner and I haven't had to rebuild it in 3+ years. I do also change the oil after each run and I pull the new oil into the pump by drawing it through the vacuum line so it coats the inside of the pump.


That’s a good idea for coating inside of pump


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## Turnedaround (Sep 16, 2022)

DLJeffs said:


> It appears your pump is sucking the stabilizing resin into the works. As you've probably noticed, when you first start to apply the vacuum, the wood bubbles and foams a lot and if you aren't careful that foam can be sucked into the pump. Both of the stabilizing fluids I've used have very prominent warnings about preventing the resin from getting into your pump.
> 
> I use a secondary container for my wood, which I fill with resin and use weights to keep the wood from floating. My vacuum hoses attach on the top of the vacuum chamber, which ensures there is an air gap. I always apply vacuum in slow increments, and watch to see if the wood foams a lot and if it does I cut back the vacuum until it subsides. Once the foaming drops way down, I can increase to full vacuum.


I have been reading on second chambers or resin traps and that does sound like a better way if not cheaper in the long run , one person used a jar and hooked fittings to lid but I did not understand how that withstood the pressure from the vacuum


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## Turnedaround (Sep 16, 2022)

Fsyxxx said:


> What are you using in the pot with the wood?


Cactus juice


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## Turnedaround (Sep 16, 2022)

2feathers Creative Making said:


> Resin traps are needed always! The wood that you are using should likely be dried in an oven before you use it. A vacuum pump will vaporize the last 8 to 12 percent of moisture in the pieces and pull it into the pump. I am not a resin / vacuum pump user but I have both items in my possession and have done hours of research on the subject... also known as reading other folks comments


Thank you I did not realize the rest of the moisture would get evaporated or that after cooking the wood there would be that much moisture left in the wood. Good to know thank you


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## Turnedaround (Sep 16, 2022)

DLJeffs said:


> It appears your pump is sucking the stabilizing resin into the works. As you've probably noticed, when you first start to apply the vacuum, the wood bubbles and foams a lot and if you aren't careful that foam can be sucked into the pump. Both of the stabilizing fluids I've used have very prominent warnings about preventing the resin from getting into your pump.
> 
> I use a secondary container for my wood, which I fill with resin and use weights to keep the wood from floating. My vacuum hoses attach on the top of the vacuum chamber, which ensures there is an air gap. I always apply vacuum in slow increments, and watch to see if the wood foams a lot and if it does I cut back the vacuum until it subsides. Once the foaming drops way down, I can increase to full vacuum.


As you explain the process I also follow the same little by little until the bubbles are settled down then full vacuum. Sadly the hose on my chamber is attached to the side on my larger pot at the top , the small pot is in the top but it’s acrylic lid and that is one warning I did get the acrylic will crack I replaced my lid after the 3rd run and switched to all glass for my chamber pots

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Greenacres2 (Sep 19, 2022)

Turnedaround said:


> Thank you I did not realize the rest of the moisture would get evaporated or that after cooking the wood there would be that much moisture left in the wood. Good to know thank you


At normal atmosphere at sea level, water "boils" at 212 F. At 29" of vacuum, that boiling point is closer to 72 or 73 F. So, any water left in the wood has a much easier path to the vac pump. Resin trap will help with water or Juice, but vapor (or "steam") may still make it through. 

Water that doesn't get heated off or removed under vacuum, can still expand into vapor when curing the resin, forcing some additional resin out of the wood--another reason to get wood as dry as possible before stabilizing.

Not really as much voodoo as all of this sounds, but following good methodology really eases the pain. Some of the stuff on the Turn-Tex site seemed weird, but i follow it and the more i do the more sense it makes. Only problems i've really had in 3 years of random stabilizing is not getting full cures on old resin--but even that had a warning on Curtis' web site--so it's still on me. (i just have a hard time pouring the old colors out--frugal might work, but cheap almost never works!!)

Reactions: Informative 1 | Useful 1


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## DLJeffs (Sep 19, 2022)

Turnedaround said:


> As you explain the process I also follow the same little by little until the bubbles are settled down then full vacuum. Sadly the hose on my chamber is attached to the side on my larger pot at the top , the small pot is in the top but it’s acrylic lid and that is one warning I did get the acrylic will crack I replaced my lid after the 3rd run and switched to all glass for my chamber pots


I had an acrylic lid crack as well and replaced with a tempered glass lid.

Any container will work fine inside your vac pot. As long as it's open at the top, the sides are completely surrounded by vacuum and there's no risk of over pressure. If you put a container inside the vac pot and that container has a lid or is somehow sealed, the pumps sucks a vacuum around the outside of that container, but the lid keeps the pressure inside the container and with no pressure on the outside, it could burst. Similarly, if somehow you do suck a vacuum inside the secondary container and when you release the vacuum on your pot, if the pressure cannot equalize quickly enough, you risk implosion of the secondary container. But an open ended glass jar or plastic bucket works great because the pressure is equal inside and out. I like being able to see what's going on inside the container. I think the juice recommends against using metal. I stabilize small blanks for reel seat inserts, etc using a smaller container inside the vac pot helps me save on resin. I use an old peanut butter jar, try to fit as many blanks as I can inside, fill it with resin, making sure to cover the blanks by at least an inch of resin because the level will go down as it gets sucked into the wood and you want the wood completely immersed in resin for the entire time. I use an old rock to hold the blanks down so they don't float. Even if I get some foaming and bubbles, the resin gets no where near my vac hose connection. If you select the right size container, you should be able to keep the resin well away from your hose connection, even with it on the side of your vac tank.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Turnedaround (Sep 19, 2022)

Greenacres2 said:


> At normal atmosphere at sea level, water "boils" at 212 F. At 29" of vacuum, that boiling point is closer to 72 or 73 F. So, any water left in the wood has a much easier path to the vac pump. Resin trap will help with water or Juice, but vapor (or "steam") may still make it through.
> 
> Water that doesn't get heated off or removed under vacuum, can still expand into vapor when curing the resin, forcing some additional resin out of the wood--another reason to get wood as dry as possible before stabilizing.
> 
> Not really as much voodoo as all of this sounds, but following good methodology really eases the pain. Some of the stuff on the Turn-Tex site seemed weird, but i follow it and the more i do the more sense it makes. Only problems i've really had in 3 years of random stabilizing is not getting full cures on old resin--but even that had a warning on Curtis' web site--so it's still on me. (i just have a hard time pouring the old colors out--frugal might work, but cheap almost never works!!)


What do you use to keep moisture from getting into your vacuum pump? If anything


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## Schroedc (Sep 19, 2022)

Greenacres2 said:


> At normal atmosphere at sea level, water "boils" at 212 F. At 29" of vacuum, that boiling point is closer to 72 or 73 F. So, any water left in the wood has a much easier path to the vac pump. Resin trap will help with water or Juice, but vapor (or "steam") may still make it through.
> 
> Water that doesn't get heated off or removed under vacuum, can still expand into vapor when curing the resin, forcing some additional resin out of the wood--another reason to get wood as dry as possible before stabilizing.
> 
> Not really as much voodoo as all of this sounds, but following good methodology really eases the pain. Some of the stuff on the Turn-Tex site seemed weird, but i follow it and the more i do the more sense it makes. Only problems i've really had in 3 years of random stabilizing is not getting full cures on old resin--but even that had a warning on Curtis' web site--so it's still on me. (i just have a hard time pouring the old colors out--frugal might work, but cheap almost never works!!)


You can recatalyze old resin. I've done it several times

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Greenacres2 (Sep 19, 2022)

Turnedaround said:


> What do you use to keep moisture from getting into your vacuum pump? If anything


Before stabilizing, just 24-36 hours in a lab oven. Mine is a vacuum oven, so I’ll usually draw 25” of vac and isolate it before turning on the heater. It’s brick lined so it takes an hour or so to come up to temp, but the wood is steaming at 80 f +/-. Only draws about 4 amps, and really stable. Once the temp is up to 220 f, I release the vac, open the door and let the moisture out. Then keep a slight opening for evaporation. Best $50 I ever spent after nearly burning my garage with a toaster oven!!

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Greenacres2 (Sep 19, 2022)

Schroedc said:


> You can recatalyze old resin. I've done it several times


Thanks Colin. Any tips on how, or is that on the Turn-Tex site?


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## Turnedaround (Sep 19, 2022)

Greenacres2 said:


> Before stabilizing, just 24-36 hours in a lab oven. Mine is a vacuum oven, so I’ll usually draw 25” of vac and isolate it before turning on the heater. It’s brick lined so it takes an hour or so to come up to temp, but the wood is steaming at 80 f +/-. Only draws about 4 amps, and really stable. Once the temp is up to 220 f, I release the vac, open the door and let the moisture out. Then keep a slight opening for evaporation. Best $50 I ever spent after nearly burning my garage with a toaster oven!!


I’ve also burnt up two toaster ovens this last one was a close call I just happened to go out to get some stuff from the freezer another 2-5 minutes and I would have had my house on fire so needless to say I’m also looking for a lab oven and that can get a little confusing/ overwhelming with all the possibilities available on the market. May I ask which one you went with ?


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## Mike Hill (Sep 20, 2022)

Greenacres2 said:


> Before stabilizing, just 24-36 hours in a lab oven. Mine is a vacuum oven, so I’ll usually draw 25” of vac and isolate it before turning on the heater. It’s brick lined so it takes an hour or so to come up to temp, but the wood is steaming at 80 f +/-. Only draws about 4 amps, and really stable. Once the temp is up to 220 f, I release the vac, open the door and let the moisture out. Then keep a slight opening for evaporation. Best $50 I ever spent after nearly burning my garage with a toaster oven!!



$50!!!!! Least expensive, I have seen is $300.


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## Turnedaround (Sep 20, 2022)

Greenacres2 said:


> Thanks Colin. Any tips on how, or is that on the Turn-Tex site?


I’ve been reading on turn-Tex site and I found one place where he says you can put the cactus juice in the fridge and it will make it last longer , I’ve not finished all the tips and trick ie help pages yet but I’m still looking , I normally use it up within 4-5 months anyway after the bottle has been opened but there may be a time when this may come in handy.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Turnedaround (Sep 20, 2022)

Mike Hill said:


> $50!!!!! Least expensive, I have seen is $300.


That would be a great [email protected] $50 I could even afford that one  but I’m saving my Pennie’s


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## Nubsnstubs (Sep 20, 2022)

Turnedaround said:


> I’ve also burnt up two toaster ovens this last one was a close call I just happened to go out to get some stuff from the freezer another 2-5 minutes and I would have had my house on fire so needless to say I’m also looking for a lab oven and that can get a little confusing/ overwhelming with all the possibilities available on the market. May I ask which one you went with ?


Robert, if you guys have a college or university nearby that has any kind of medical classes, they might have a department that sells old lab equipment like vacs, fridges, and other stuff that might help in your endeavors. 
We have one here that some of the stuff is pretty interesting. I have seen a lot of vacuum stuff from a pump to a whole cabinet designed for the vac process. ................... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## Schroedc (Sep 20, 2022)

Greenacres2 said:


> Thanks Colin. Any tips on how, or is that on the Turn-Tex site?


I don't recall if it's in his site. I test older resin first in a little dish, bake it and see if it sets. If it doesn't, I have some spare catalyst, I mix it into a pint of fresh cactus juice, then calculate out how much of that to add to the volume of old resin. It seems to work fine but I'd honestly reach out to Curtis, I went by guess and by gosh and it worked fine so until it doesn't, I'll still do it. Your mileage may vary....

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## Turnedaround (Sep 20, 2022)

Nubsnstubs said:


> Robert, if you guys have a college or university nearby that has any kind of medical classes, they might have a department that sells old lab equipment like vacs, fridges, and other stuff that might help in your endeavors.
> We have one here that some of the stuff is pretty interesting. I have seen a lot of vacuum stuff from a pump to a whole cabinet designed for the vac process. ................... Jerry (in Tucson)


Thank you I will look at the different school in this area and see what they have


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## Turnedaround (Sep 20, 2022)

Schroedc said:


> I don't recall if it's in his site. I test older resin first in a little dish, bake it and see if it sets. If it doesn't, I have some spare catalyst, I mix it into a pint of fresh cactus juice, then calculate out how much of that to add to the volume of old resin. It seems to work fine but I'd honestly reach out to Curtis, I went by guess and by gosh and it worked fine so until it doesn't, I'll still do it. Your mileage may vary....


Thank you for sharing


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## Greenacres2 (Sep 20, 2022)

@Mike Hill i got lucky on an old analog on the auction. $50 and 15 miles on rural roads. Shipping would have been $60 or more if I recall. Little, but heavy.

With no vacuum applied there’s no closing so I use a loose bar clamp. Have thoughts of a more elegant solution, but not an elegant 102 year old basement. 

Dental labs often have old good ovens too, with no vac but do have mechanical latches. New ones are digital and more money, but I only need 2 temps 220f to dry and 190 to cure.

edit to add—got curious so looked up the specs…8” x 12” x 8” and weighs 42 pounds. Now I remember why I never move it. Little more mass than a toaster oven!!

Reactions: Like 2 | Way Cool 1 | +Karma 1


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## Turnedaround (Sep 20, 2022)

Greenacres2 said:


> @Mike Hill i got lucky on an old analog on the auction. $50 and 15 miles on rural roads. Shipping would have been $60 or more if I recall. Little, but heavy.
> 
> With no vacuum applied there’s no closing so I use a loose bar clamp. Have thoughts of a more elegant solution, but not an elegant 102 year old basement.
> 
> ...


That’s very neat thank you for sharing


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## Mike Hill (Sep 21, 2022)

Greenacres2 said:


> @Mike Hill i got lucky on an old analog on the auction. $50 and 15 miles on rural roads. Shipping would have been $60 or more if I recall. Little, but heavy.
> 
> With no vacuum applied there’s no closing so I use a loose bar clamp. Have thoughts of a more elegant solution, but not an elegant 102 year old basement.
> 
> ...


Yup, that Precision Scientific is the one I'm trying to find. For a good portion of my career, I've built hospitals and other medical facilities. Over the decades, I have been able to obtain many things medical surplus - but never a vacuum oven. A sterilizer, but not a vacuum oven. Most useful things I've had were mobile IV stands (great for hanging flexible shaft machines from), mobile Stainless steel tables (great for holding tools and parts while working on a project - I used one to hold turning tools next to my lathe), and stainless stools on wheels (great for making your inner pig go wheeeee!!!). Unfortunately, reality hit, and I realized I needed more room to hoard wood and got rid of most. I have kept a lab oven, (non vacuum). Prior to the days of the automatic, electric smokers, I was gonna install some sort of smoke generator on it, and cook me some briskets. However, prior to actually installing the smoke generator, the Bradleys appeared and I opted for that. I need to get it down from the attice and use it for drying out wood and stabilizing. The most notable thing I had my guys scrounge was a whole bunch of lead lining from an x-ray suite in the basement of a local hospital. We took it to a recycler and made good money. Told the Super to set up two bbq lunchs for all the workers (usually 200 to 400 workers) on the project. Had one at topping out (that one was delayed because we had a fire that burned all the formwork for the roof slab) and one at substantial completion that we also invited the administration and the E.R. Department (we had to disrupt their area a number of times!).

Reactions: Like 3


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## Turnedaround (Sep 21, 2022)

Mike Hill said:


> Yup, that Precision Scientific is the one I'm trying to find. For a good portion of my career, I've built hospitals and other medical facilities. Over the decades, I have been able to obtain many things medical surplus - but never a vacuum oven. A sterilizer, but not a vacuum oven. Most useful things I've had were mobile IV stands (great for hanging flexible shaft machines from), mobile Stainless steel tables (great for holding tools and parts while working on a project - I used one to hold turning tools next to my lathe), and stainless stools on wheels (great for making your inner pig go wheeeee!!!). Unfortunately, reality hit, and I realized I needed more room to hoard wood and got rid of most. I have kept a lab oven, (non vacuum). Prior to the days of the automatic, electric smokers, I was gonna install some sort of smoke generator on it, and cook me some briskets. However, prior to actually installing the smoke generator, the Bradleys appeared and I opted for that. I need to get it down from the attice and use it for drying out wood and stabilizing. The most notable thing I had my guys scrounge was a whole bunch of lead lining from an x-ray suite in the basement of a local hospital. We took it to a recycler and made good money. Told the Super to set up two bbq lunchs for all the workers (usually 200 to 400 workers) on the project. Had one at topping out (that one was delayed because we had a fire that burned all the formwork for the roof slab) and one at substantial completion that we also invited the administration and the E.R. Department (we had to disrupt their area a number of times!).


I found a few on eBay last night around $800-900 there was a few for under $200 but was considered parts for what ever reason.


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## Greenacres2 (Sep 21, 2022)

WOW!! My $50 was only 4 or 5 years ago. Wish my retirement plan balance would come back like that!!


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## Turnedaround (Sep 21, 2022)

Greenacres2 said:


> WOW!! My $50 was only 4 or 5 years ago. Wish my retirement plan balance would come back like that!!


Right what could a fella do with that kinda return on investment

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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