# It's sometimes painful learning something new



## kweinert (Jun 3, 2012)

At least it wasn't painful in the physical sense.

Working on a project where I'll have sets of salt/pepper shakers, cutting board, etc - and I'm starting on the shakers.

For this project I cut a 2x2x4 piece of walnut in order to create a jam chuck. I tapped and drilled one end and mounted it on the headstock. it was a fairly tight fit - hand tight worked but it wasn't a struggle to get it on. 

Then I turned down the different diameters: 1", 1 1/4", and a couple of others. I had some bodies/heads of the shakers that I had drilled out with a Forstner bit and tried them on for size - they fit great.

So today I'm out there turning down the body of the first shaker. One end on the jam chuck, the tailstock brought up for the other end. I got the basic shape done (well, started - turns out I can go a bit deeper yet) and took the tail stock away so I could clean up the bottom.

Here's where the pain starts :)

I got a small catch on the bottom and suddenly things are going all a-kilter. I quickly shut off the lathe and tried doing several things to sort out what the problem was.

I'm guessing that if I can just push the jam chuck most of the way on to the headstock that the problem just might be that I ripped out the threads.

*sigh*

Since this is really the first thing I've threaded I don't know if the problem was a substandard job in doing the threading, if this is a normal action for home-made chucks, if I just have a Pig-Pen cloud hovering over me, or just what is going on.

So, back to the drawing board. Guess I'll throw this post out there, wait for some advice from the kind folks here, and see if i can learn from your experience and try it again.

Thanks.


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## Mike Mills (Jun 3, 2012)

I have a Beale tap but have only used it a few time. _Assuming_ you have a scroll chuck, I would turn a spigot to fit in the chuck then turn the jam blank(s) to size. Make a mark on the jam at the top of the #1 jaws and you can align it to the same point each time you use it.
It will still take very light cuts in order to not orbit it with a jam chuck and no tail stock support.


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## kweinert (Jun 3, 2012)

rbaccus said:


> Mike Mills said:
> 
> 
> > I have a Beale tap but have only used it a few time. _Assuming_ you have a scroll chuck, I would turn a spigot to fit in the chuck then turn the jam blank(s) to size. Make a mark on the jam at the top of the #1 jaws and you can align it to the same point each time you use it.
> ...



Was that to me or Mike?

Here's what I did:

[attachment=6379]

[attachment=6380]


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## woodtickgreg (Jun 4, 2012)

One of the fellas here, can't remember who, advised me to use ca on the threads to harden them.


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## Mike Mills (Jun 4, 2012)

For myself, instead of tapping the item I would turn a spigot in place of the tapped section. Then hold the new spigot in my chuck.

If tapped, I agree with running thin CA around all the threads and then re-run the tap.

If turning a spigot _for the chuck _I would stay with endgrain as you have for greater strength.

If using a tap I would glue blocks together (if necessary) and turn sidegrain.
You should be able to get clean sharp strong threads in sidegrain. 

Tapping n long grain it is easy to tear the fibers apart. Thinking of the grain as a bundle of straws, you are cutting the straws into little short pieces where you tap into long grain.


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## kweinert (Jun 4, 2012)

Mike Mills said:


> For myself, instead of tapping the item I would turn a spigot in place of the tapped section. Then hold the new spigot in my chuck.



My concern with this and the reason I tapped it for direct mounting is just repeatability of getting it set up true every time. Maybe that's just my inexperience talking here though.



Mike Mills said:


> If tapped, I agree with running thin CA around all the threads and then re-run the tap.
> 
> If turning a spigot _for the chuck _I would stay with endgrain as you have for greater strength.
> 
> ...



That makes sense - and was something I didn't consider.

Thanks.


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## Mike Mills (Jun 4, 2012)

Not saying what you are trying to do won’t work but to me the major obstacle is turning a long item with a friction fit of ½”(?), with a free end. With a bowl jam chuck there is a large diameter to jam it into and a bowl is typically not very deep. Even my deepest spigot jaws are only rated for 8-12 inches with a free end. 
I do understand the desire for repeatability.

If you are going to trash you current effort I would try a spigot first. There should be plenty of wood left in the base to compress with chuck jaws. You would probably have to re-turn the jams once mounted in the chuck...the 1.25 down to 1, the 1.5 down to 1.25, etc.
Before removing from the scroll chuck make a mark at one of the jaws to re-align as close as possible upon remounting. May work, may not.

But this got me thinking :scratch_one-s_head:…so beware.
How about a home made wooden pin chuck…maybe out of ash, or other hard wood.
It should work in the larger diameters.

Here is a link to a pin chuck video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odu1cT3AwUE
I would laminate the wood together so you are tapping into side grain.
Then mount on the lathe and turn your pin section 2-3” long.
Then use a saw, chisel, and rasp to remove the wood for the flat area for a pin 1.5-2” long.
As shown in the video the loose pin must match the recess cut height. It should last a long long time in hardwood. If you use the shank of an old drill bit as a pin and it gets a little loose, flatten the wood again and move up drill bit size by 1/32nd.
You would have to make a separate one for each diameter hole.

Of course the easiest is a set of pin jaws for a chuck but thats about $60.


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## DKMD (Jun 4, 2012)

I'd have to see it in action to be sure, but I doubt the threads are your issue if they still grip the headstock spindle. I think the problem is more likely that you were trying to turn a long spindle unsupported. I doubt you'll have much success using a jam chuck consistently without tail stock support. I use a scroll chuck for turning my mills, and often I can incorporate the wood from the tenon in the finished piece so I'm not wasting wood with the tenon. 

You might check out Rubberchucky products... Ron makes interesting and helpful doodads for turning including some items specific for peppermills. I use his mini reverse chucky almost everytime I reverse a hollowform. I haven't used his peppermill products, but I have used the original chucky on the live center(tailstock) while turning peppermills... It works great. I don't have any financial relationship with Don Doyle or Rubberchucky, but I'm a big fan of the products.

Maybe some photos of your turning setup with a mill mounted up would help us understand where you're having trouble.


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## kweinert (Jun 4, 2012)

DKMD said:


> I'd have to see it in action to be sure, but I doubt the threads are your issue if they still grip the headstock spindle.



Oh, they are the issue - I can now slide the chuck almost all the way on to the spindle without use of the threads :)



DKMD said:


> I think the problem is more likely that you were trying to turn a long spindle unsupported. I doubt you'll have much success using a jam chuck consistently without tail stock support. I use a scroll chuck for turning my mills, and often I can incorporate the wood from the tenon in the finished piece so I'm not wasting wood with the tenon.



I was trying to take light cuts to clean up the end. When cutting the main 'design' I definitely had the tailstock support.



DKMD said:


> You might check out Rubberchucky products... Ron makes interesting and helpful doodads for turning including some items specific for peppermills. I use his mini reverse chucky almost everytime I reverse a hollowform. I haven't used his peppermill products, but I have used the original chucky on the live center(tailstock) while turning peppermills... It works great. I don't have any financial relationship with Don Doyle or Rubberchucky, but I'm a big fan of the products.
> 
> Maybe some photos of your turning setup with a mill mounted up would help us understand where you're having trouble.



I'll take a look at his stuff. Thanks for the pointer.


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## Mike Mills (Jun 4, 2012)

DKMD said:


> Maybe some photos of your turning setup with a mill mounted up would help us understand where you're having trouble.



I started thinking the same. Can you use a 60* cone at the tailstock and get to what you want to turn to clean it up? This would be a quick shop made wooden cone not a steel one; if you cut into it some it wouldn't matter.

Not sure if you are just cleaning up the base or cutting a recess for the mechanism to fit into.

I do really like your idea of a step jam chuck. Gotta be a way to make it work.


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## kweinert (Jun 4, 2012)

Mike Mills said:


> DKMD said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe some photos of your turning setup with a mill mounted up would help us understand where you're having trouble.
> ...



In this case it's cleaning up the bottom - these are shakers, not grinders.

Hmmm, I have a live center with a removable point. I wonder how difficult it would be to put a wooden center in it. Maybe just easier to put a wooden shield over it with a bit of a dull point on it.

I do appreciate all your input here. One of these days I'll be able to help someone new to pay you back.


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## Mike Mills (Jun 4, 2012)

i don't know if it will help with yours but with my lathe the spindle is not treaded all the way to the headstock. Chucks, faceplates, etc. must have the threads relieved for about 1/4" at the end. The same was true with the few items I threaded with my Beale.

I finally bought some of Vince's 1" sanding disc for small items and just keep tailstock support down to about 1/8". Then I use a drill, the small disc, and finish off the lathe.

Sorry about my error in grinders, not shakers.


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