# Treating For Pine Tree Beetles . . .



## Kevin (Aug 29, 2013)

This doesn't really go here but don't know where else to put it. I have a pine tree infested with PTB. May be too late for it but want to try and save it. I can post pics of the tree if need be - not sure what kind of pine it is. I've been told to treat the ground over the root area with malathion. Does this sound advisable?


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## rdnkmedic (Aug 29, 2013)

The only treatment I have seen around here is to cut it down. The bugs will move from tree to tree untill they get them all. I know that's not the answer you are looking for but it is the common treatment in Georgia when a pine tree tract gets infected.


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## jimmyjames (Aug 29, 2013)

They used malathion in my neighborhood, the neighborhood association paid for it, they still killed all of them, they treated them I believe 3 different times, treated the ground and sprayed the trees, all were dead within a year anyway. Now all the ones left still standing are falling over, we cut 9 of them out of our yard alone, the beetles killed probably 500 trees in our neighborhood alone, our neighborhood is called the pine crest addition but there isn't any pine trees left, only maples and cedars.... I would say if the beetles have been on the tree for a month or longer its probably too late, those suckers multiply faster than rabbits, our trees went from nothing to carpets of them in a matter of a couple weeks.... afterthey sprayed iI could rake up piles of those suckers, there's still piles of beetle shells around the stumps in our yard.


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## Kevin (Aug 29, 2013)

I only had 3 pine trees, this is the only one left. Our oak cottonwood and erc trees have no signs. I wouldn't expect them to though since PTB don't attack those species. I'm gonna spray it anyway and see what happens. I'm sure it's a goner.


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## jimmyjames (Aug 29, 2013)

If using malothion be careful with it, i work with a guy that inhaled far too much of it and had some severe problems and was hospitalized for quite some time. He was spraying for mosquitoes during the west Nile virus outbreak


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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Aug 29, 2013)

Kevin said:


> I only had 3 pine trees, this is the only one left. Our oak cottonwood and erc trees have no signs. I wouldn't expect them to though since PTB don't attack those species. I'm gonna spray it anyway and see what happens. I'm sure it's a goner.



I used to sell a lot of treatments for boring insects during my tree care days. If the tree is showing signs of die back at the tips of the branches the cambium layer is already trashed and a truck load of spraying won't help. Unfortunately the time to act has passed. If you have other pine trees not infected spend your cash treating them as it will do them the most good. 

On a side note root injections are not the most reliable solution for boring insects. A direct trunk injection is the best course of action for any type of internal insect to a tree. The best example I can come up with is the ash borer. Since it's discovery it was figured that all hope was lost for the species and that eventually they would all be gone. This is partly true..... Any tree which is not treated with a preventative treatment like tree-age or the equivalent will be lost. Those trees which have been treated with a trunk injection has a 99.9%+ rate of preventing the loss of the tree. The same injection put into an infected tree almost always dies. This is not because the treatment won't kill the bugs but because the damage is already done and the tree's mechanisms to move water, nutrients, and medicine are broken (eaten) by the boring insect already. For those infected trees which are treated and saved the end result is lots of suckering on the lower parts of the tree and the crown will die while the lower part lives and looks aweful. 

On a side not to my side note.... Root injections were the first thing arborists/DNR's used to combat EAB and most of those treatments failed. In this case it was deemed that some of the roots were missed in the root method and therefor did not get medicine into the parts of the tree that were supplied by the missed roots. 


To sum up my post.... IT IS BEST TO TREAT BORING INSECTS AS A PREVENTATIVE RATHER THAN A CURE REGARDLESS OF SPECIES. THE FIRST TREE YOU FIND INFECTED CUT IT DOWN AND TREE ALL OTHERS IN THE AREA WITH A PREVENTATIVE ASAP!!


the only exception would be FBE leave all those buggers untreated and cut down as needed


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## Mike1950 (Aug 29, 2013)

Have you been in a drought- seems the weaker trees get the bug. I have a dozen or so PP left. We cut a bunch down. All were healthy. a couple years later one tree got the beetles- it died but the rest survived. Our neighborhood is filled with PP. The ones that survived have no signs. 
I think that tree is a wasted effort. Burn it. Hope the other 2 are healthier.


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## Kevin (Aug 29, 2013)

As I said, I only have one pine tree left, and doubtful I can save it but was curious. Thanks for the info. Prevention is always the best cure obviously.


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## Kevin (Sep 26, 2013)

I sprayed the tree anyway and it looks to me like the tree is going to survive. All the beetles are gone and the brown needles have mostly fallen off and been replaced with live green ones. The tree has obviously made a dramatic recovery. I can take a picture later but my money says it has beat the odds and is going to survive.


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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Sep 26, 2013)

Kevin said:


> I sprayed the tree anyway and it looks to me like the tree is going to survive. All the beetles are gone and the brown needles have mostly fallen off and been replaced with live green ones. The tree has obviously made a dramatic recovery. I can take a picture later but my money says it has beat the odds and is going to survive.



Sweet glad to hear!


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## rdnkmedic (Sep 26, 2013)

Good news. I can't imagine having only 3 pine trees. We have 3 pine trees for every man, woman, child, dog, cat and lizard in Georgia. They grow like weeds and where they aren't growing we plant them. Acres and acres of planted pine forests. kind of boring and not real good habitat for wildlife after they get some size on them.


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## Kevin (Sep 26, 2013)

rdnkmedic said:


> Good news. I can't imagine having only 3 pine trees. We have 3 pine trees for every man, woman, child, dog, cat and lizard in Georgia. They grow like weeds and where they aren't growing we plant them. Acres and acres of planted pine forests. kind of boring and not real good habitat for wildlife after they get some size on them.



I only have ONE pine tree I used to have 3 - the other two died before I could save them. But what you describe is what east Texas is like. Of course as you know it is called the East Texas Piney Woods and covers parts of Louisiana and Arkansas also. It starts about an hour's drive east of us.

I read somewhere years ago, that it used to extend well west of us too, but I never could find that article again in my books or online, but I tend to beleieve it is true because there are scattered stands of pines here and there that were obviously not planted. In other words where I live now used to be right in the thick of the piney woods, at least that is what I believe until I discover otherwise. I never can think t remember to ask my forest ranger or ag guy whenever I talk to them but they might know either way.

I love to mill pine. The very first log I ever milled was a Loblolly that I felled on my MIL property on Lake Winnsboro in the piney woods. I had assembled my new Norwood LM 2000 mill in the shop, rolled it outside, felled a big loblolly near the shop, bucked off the 8' butt log, rolled it to mill, fenangled it up on the bunks, milled off my first ever slab, and the sickness (and WoodBarter) was born at that moment . . . . .


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## Mike1950 (Sep 26, 2013)

rdnkmedic said:


> Good news. I can't imagine having only 3 pine trees. We have 3 pine trees for every man, woman, child, dog, cat and lizard in Georgia. They grow like weeds and where they aren't growing we plant them. Acres and acres of planted pine forests. kind of boring and not real good habitat for wildlife after they get some size on them.



We also have lots of pine- Ponderosa pines. They do not plant them though. When they clear cut in the past they planted Doug fir. Unfortunately for the planners of these all fir forests mother nature prefers diversity and now they are being ravaged by the bugs- ah when will they learn- it is not nice to mess with mother nature....................

kevin- that is great that you were able to save it.....


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## rdnkmedic (Sep 26, 2013)

Lots of people are planting the long leaf pine now. Used to be huge stands of it all around the south but most of it was cut. Growing movement to try to re establish them. Better timber and wood products I think. Crap we buy for pine lumber now days is garbage compared to what there used to be.


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## Kevin (Sep 26, 2013)

All the bugs are gone and the frass holes are already growing bark over them - you can see it inside but in the pics they still just look like holes 
http://i1077.Rule #2/albums/w468/WoodBarter/Pine3_zps96ac9720.jpg

http://i1077.Rule #2/albums/w468/WoodBarter/Pine2_zps27963be9.jpg


Like I said it is a scrawnty pine tree but it's my favorite pine tree in our yard. 
http://i1077.Rule #2/albums/w468/WoodBarter/Pine1_zpse86b8dd0.jpg


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## Nobby40 (Sep 27, 2013)

The whole southwest has been battling Pine Bark Beetles since the start of the drought. They really go after Pinion Pine, Arizona Cyprus, they are even getting the 1,000 yr old + Alligator Junipers too. I've lost a lot of Cyprus, they
seem to hit a mother tree, kill it and move on. The only solution we found was 
water, they attack the weak trees the heavy water produces sap, this in turn drowns the buggers. This method saves about 50%, the rest end up in the woodstoves. It's been raining a lot again, flooding actually after 15 yrs of
low rain amounts. Hopefully it's going to change and the area won't become
barstow. Glad your tree is still with us.


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## Kevin (Sep 27, 2013)

Nobby40 said:


> ....The only solution we found was
> water, they attack the weak trees the heavy water produces sap, this in turn drowns the buggers. This method saves about 50%.....



Wow I bet that's what did it then, because I drowned the tree several days after spraying. I kept the sprinkler on for nearly a week, then a couple days after I turned it off it started raining and we got a monsoon for half a day then sprinkled to medium rain for another day and a half. 

I didn't have a clue what I was doing, I was just acting instinctively. With the light you shed on it, I believe it was the water that saved the tree. Thanks for the info that will help in the future.


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