# Question for those of you that mill and sell commercially



## Schroedc (Nov 30, 2015)

I just picked up a load of wood today including some walnut (4/4 S2S) for some things I have to build and when I did the math I got 22 BF but was charged for 24BF, called and spoke to the mill and he tells me that they calculate approx a 5% loss for straightlining the boards when they come in. This is the first time I've paid for more lumber than I got. Is this a real calculation or is he hosing me to avoid admitting he made a mistake?


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## Sprung (Nov 30, 2015)

I've never been charged like that when buying lumber from anywhere... If they have a 5% loss from straightlining the boards when they come in, then instead of charging you more unexpectedly on the sale end, they need to build that into their BF price, raise it 5% if they need to. Sounds fishy to me...

Reactions: Agree 5


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## manbuckwal (Nov 30, 2015)

On whole burls they weigh em green after they have been pressured washed and that's their green weight price stamped on em when you go to buy even tho they may lose weight after a month. I have yet to hear anything like that on flat stock dry lumber tho.


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## Kevin (Nov 30, 2015)

Schroedc said:


> I just picked up a load of wood today including some walnut (4/4 S2S) for some things I have to build and when I did the math I got 22 BF but was charged for 24BF, called and spoke to the mill and he tells me that they calculate approx a 5% loss for straightlining the boards when they come in. This is the first time I've paid for more lumber than I got. Is this a real calculation or is he hosing me to avoid admitting he made a mistake?



I understand what they're saying - that they actually sawed 24BF and they charged you by the BF, but after they straight-lined the boards 2BF was removed. You should have asked why he didn't also charge for the stright-lining. 

I would find another mill - most mills won't charge for that they will charge for the stack you pick up. You should have demanded the waste since you paid for it and taught them a lesson - they charged you for it technically it was yours.

P.S. Those had to be be some awfully crooked boards to have 2BF waste in only 24 BF.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


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## Schroedc (Nov 30, 2015)

Kevin said:


> I understand what they're saying - that they actually sawed 24BF and they charged you by the BF, but after they straight-lined the boards 2BF was removed. You should have asked why he didn't also charge for the stright-lining.
> 
> I would find another mill - most mills won't charge for that they will charge for the stack you pick up. You should have demanded the waste since you paid for it and taught them a lesson - they charged you for it technically it was yours.



Thanks for the explanation. Yeah, I'll have to see what I can find for another mill but this one had given great service and product in the past. The funny thing is the boards technically aren't even supposed to have a jointed or straight cut edge based on what I paid for (I've got a big jointer so I can do that myself) so I suppose I got a deal on having them straightlined right?

Reactions: Like 1


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## DavidDobbs (Nov 30, 2015)

I was wondering if you had been there before. That even makes less since that he didn't say anything about the 5%.

I am with Kevin I wouldn't pass through his door again.

Or even if he would have said on the phone. Oh crap I forgot to mention that. Remind me next time you are here we will work it out.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tony (Nov 30, 2015)

I've never had that happen before. In my mind, if they're going to do that, there should be a sign, a statement on your invoice, something stating that. I'd take my business elsewhere, the older I get the less tolerance I have for that type of foolishness. Tony


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## Sidecar (Nov 30, 2015)

Schroedc said:


> Thanks for the explanation. Yeah, I'll have to see what I can find for another mill but this one had given great service and product in the past. The funny thing is the boards technically aren't even supposed to have a jointed or straight cut edge based on what I paid for (I've got a big jointer so I can do that myself) so I suppose I got a deal on having them straightlined right?


Are they straight to your satisfaction. .....you still may have come out a head just on the work of running them across your jointer
Most mills around this area only charge for your stack......maybe there's something new in the wind.....?


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## Schroedc (Nov 30, 2015)

Tony said:


> I've never had that happen before. In my mind, if they're going to do that, there should be a sign, a statement on your invoice, something stating that. I'd take my business elsewhere, the older I get the less tolerance I have for that type of foolishness. Tony



The problem I'm running into around here unfortunately is the mom and pop mills are all pretty much gone except for one or two that I won't do business with for various reasons and we're left with Menards/Home Depot or a couple of larger places. The one I used to do business with and was happy to deal with made a decision that all orders under 500BF really should be handled out of their other location and of course it's the one that's over an hour further away for me. This one was great to deal with the last time and I don't know if he didn't want a piddly order or felt the need to pad it or what.

I'm to the point I really need to invest in building a kiln (Of course I'm going to have issues with the city council here.... Probably need to buy land in the country but that's a few years down the road right now) and start really putting my sawmill to work for me. Until then I do have another source with quality lumber, decent prices, and they will deliver but the catch is they only want to deal with 1000BF orders and I could swing the money once or twice a year to make it worthwhile but don't have enough storage space....


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## jmurray (Nov 30, 2015)

I'm scared to ask, but what does a bf of s4s walnut run? I've only purchased rough sawn


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## Schroedc (Nov 30, 2015)

jmurray said:


> I'm scared to ask, but what does a bf of s4s walnut run? I've only purchased rough sawn



Up here S2S with one straight edge has been running between 6 and 7/BF for Select or better.


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## Kevin (Nov 30, 2015)

Colin you can dry a surprising number of BF of lumber in a small kiln - and if you put it on axles it is not permanent but a trailer and they cannot say a word. At least here in Texas. That's why we put everything on wheels.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## winters98 (Nov 30, 2015)

@Schroedc have you ever used Run of the mill out of mankato? He has a mobile mill and two kilns. They also do on sitemilling and reclined lumber


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## Kevin (Nov 30, 2015)

Schroedc said:


> Up here S2S with one straight edge has been running between 6 and 7/BF for Select or better.



I could nearly ship KD walnut to you for that and make money. NO joke.


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## Schroedc (Nov 30, 2015)

Kevin said:


> I could nearly ship KD walnut to you for that and make money. NO joke.


And it'd probably be nicer than what I'm getting locally lately..


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## Tony (Nov 30, 2015)

Kevin said:


> I could nearly ship KD walnut to you for that and make money. NO joke.



If that's the case I need to take a trip and buy some from you. That's not too far off what I'm paying down here. Tony

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tclem (Nov 30, 2015)

Colin Ifmou will pay me for a lfrb of pen blanks I will ship you a mfrb.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Sprung (Nov 30, 2015)

Schroedc said:


> Up here S2S with one straight edge has been running between 6 and 7/BF for Select or better.



It would be a little bit of a drive for you, and I don't think he grades his stuff, but the one guy in St. James I think I mentioned to you in a message a while ago sells KD walnut about $3/BF, but I don't think it's either S2S or straightlined at that price. Though I don't think he charges much to run things through his 25" planer, if needed.

This place would be an even further drive, but the prices could make it worth the drive. I haven't been there or checked them out myself yet, but hope to make a run down there (about 3 hours away from me) sometime this coming spring or summer for some cherry, walnut, and hard maple. Their prices are for KD, planed both sides, and his material is graded.

Reactions: Like 1


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## gvwp (Dec 1, 2015)

The price difference you speak of is between net and gross tally. Most all mills sell net tally. Gross is basically the board footage tally in green lumber. 5-6% is a typical loss from green to kiln dried on Walnut. You always want to buy lumber net tally and if your mill charges gross tally you do want to find another mill. Too bad you are several hundred miles from here. We always sell net tally on kiln dried lumber.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Schroedc (Dec 1, 2015)

gvwp said:


> The price difference you speak of is between net and gross tally. Most all mills sell net tally. Gross is basically the board footage tally in green lumber. 5-6% is a typical loss from green to kiln dried on Walnut. You always want to buy lumber net tally and if your mill charges gross tally you do want to find another mill. Too bad you are several hundred miles from here. We always sell net tally on kiln dried lumber.



I'm starting to think that what I need to do is make storage space, plan a trip in the spring and head to one of the mills south of here with a trailer and buy 500BF or more of lumber and haul it back. I have about 400BF of 8/4 Maple that was a gift but I've found powder post beetles in some of it so that really needs a kiln run before I use it or just whack it all into bowl blanks and run it through the oven in my shop... Unless I can find another way to kill those pesky bugs.


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## Graybeard (Dec 2, 2015)

Not sure how these guys would measure up price wise but they're really super to deal with. http://johnsonwoodproducts.com/

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kevin (Dec 2, 2015)

Schroedc said:


> Unless I can find another way to kill those pesky bugs.



I sell LFRB of fire ants for only $35 delivered. Dump them out in the spring and they will build numerous large communities of organic bug killer mounds. Throw a bowl blank on them for a few hours and your blank is ready to turn. Yes you have to reorder from me every year because fire ants are sane and therefore refuse to live up north but it saves thousands over a kiln.

They are smart too. Many people don't know it but Geico hired a Texas colony of them to create a new mascot to replace their caveman and this is what they came up with:

Reactions: Creative 1


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## gvwp (Dec 2, 2015)

Schroedc said:


> I'm starting to think that what I need to do is make storage space, plan a trip in the spring and head to one of the mills south of here with a trailer and buy 500BF or more of lumber and haul it back. I have about 400BF of 8/4 Maple that was a gift but I've found powder post beetles in some of it so that really needs a kiln run before I use it or just whack it all into bowl blanks and run it through the oven in my shop... Unless I can find another way to kill those pesky bugs.



Might be worth your trip. I am located in west central Indiana near Terre Haute. All of our 4/4 lumber is kiln dried and sold net tally. Not sure exactly what part of the state you are. I went just north of Grand Rapids, MN on a fishing trip this last August and it was about 9 hours.


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## Schroedc (Dec 2, 2015)

gvwp said:


> Might be worth your trip. I am located in west central Indiana near Terre Haute. All of our 4/4 lumber is kiln dried and sold net tally. Not sure exactly what part of the state you are. I went just north of Grand Rapids, MN on a fishing trip this last August and it was about 9 hours.



Grand Rapids is quite a ways beyond me. I'm near LaCrosse WI, about 5 hours from Chicago if I recall.


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## gvwp (Dec 2, 2015)

Schroedc said:


> Grand Rapids is quite a ways beyond me. I'm near LaCrosse WI, about 5 hours from Chicago if I recall.



Ok. Thats not near as far then. 5-6 hours maybe.


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## jetcn1 (Dec 5, 2015)

Sounds like you bought that in Rochester. That's what they do there .


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