# Cocobolo or Zircote for a detailed finial



## Treecycle Hardwoods (Sep 3, 2014)

Ok, been playing with hollow forms for a couple of weeks now. Got 3 made and in the process of finishing and one more that is drying before a final turning. (I will share when they are fully complete) I made one finial with Zircote and it looks sweet but it didn't hold an edge to well. I need the base of the second finial to be 2" and I don't have any ebony that big at the moment otherwise I would use that instead. I have another piece of Zircote I could use and also some Cocobolo that would work. I have only made pens from coco and it turns nicely that way but so does zircote so I was wondering if cocobolo would offer any advantage making a detailed finial?


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## SENC (Sep 3, 2014)

Greg, I find them fairly similar to turn, though coco does seem a bit more forgiving to me. Ziricote always seem slightly more brittle to me, relatively speaking... but that could just be the pieces of the zcote and coco I've turned and may not be representative of the two species. Could you post a piece of the problem edge on the ziricote?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Sep 3, 2014)

SENC said:


> Greg, I find them fairly similar to turn, though coco does seem a bit more forgiving to me. Ziricote always seem slightly more brittle to me, relatively speaking... but that could just be the pieces of the zcote and coco I've turned and may not be representative of the two species. Could you post a piece of the problem edge on the ziricote?


I was trying to get a sharp edge on the zirc but I couldn't get it to stick so I went with a slightly different design. In my next one I want to have some disc shapes in the finial with crisp edges.


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## SENC (Sep 3, 2014)

Well, I'm probably not much help, then... not many sharp edges on my duck calls!


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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Sep 3, 2014)

If I have to I will cheat on this by using hard maple and a sharpie but I would prefer not to go that rout. I have some DIW also but it isn't very dark.


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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Sep 3, 2014)

LOL I have so much wood I forget what I have some times! I just remembered that I have some purple heart also that is 2 square. Any body have experience with PH as it relates to holding detail?


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## duncsuss (Sep 3, 2014)

Treecycle Hardwoods said:


> LOL I have so much wood I forget what I have some times! I just remembered that I have some purple heart also that is 2 square. Any body have experience with PH as it relates to holding detail?



I've only done finial work with two woods: bubinga and burmese blackwood, both pieces I selected for their very straight (and parallel to the edges of the blank) grain. Both held details really well (sharp-edged "collars" around the end of tear-drops).


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## NYWoodturner (Sep 3, 2014)

Greg - it sounds more like a sanding issue to me. Both of those woods hold detail pretty well. Coco is a lot more oily and therefore will sand dawn easier. That one I can understand not holding detail well. However it is dense enough that with a razor sharp tool you can cut minuscule detail and it will register. Once you have done try steel wool as opposed to sandpaper to knock down any rough ridges. 
Ziricote on the other hand is as you stated much more brittle. Brittle = detail nirvana. If you have a dull tool hover you will get shattering or that will resemble tear out. Razor sharp tools in zircon will register a much finer / sharper detail that coco and will hold up quite a bit more to sanding. If you cuts are right though steel wool is all you need.
Hope this helps

Reactions: Thank You! 2


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## barry richardson (Sep 3, 2014)

African Blackwood it the ultimate for finials IMO, but assume you don't have that either. This may be heresy to some, but I often use hard maple for finials and dye it what ever color I want, or hit it with black lacquer. It takes a super fine edge, and carves great too if you plan on doing a bit of that. Generally speaking, wood with large pores doesn't take fine detail well. Zirc and Coco both have large pores...


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## SENC (Sep 3, 2014)

barry richardson said:


> African Blackwood it the ultimate for finials IMO, but assume you don't have that either. This may be heresy to some, but I often use hard maple for finials and dye it what ever color I want, or hit it with black lacquer. It takes a super fine edge, and carves great too if you plan on doing a bit of that. Generally speaking, wood with large pores doesn't take fine detail well. Zirc and Coco both have large pores...


Useful info for a heretic! I would have never thought of ziricote as being open pore.


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## DKMD (Sep 3, 2014)

Any chance you've got more of that Hawthorn around? It's dense and non-porous, and I'll bet it holds details really well. Barry's suggestion to use dye is a good one. Depending on the tannin content, the vinegar/steel wool mixture(woodturner's douche) will darken it nicely if you want a more 'natural' color. If it's a low tannin wood, you can soak it in strong tea to enhance the tannin content.

Between ziricote and cocobolo, I'd say the ziricote is probably better for crisp, fine detail. Desert ironwood also works well.


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## SENC (Sep 3, 2014)

DKMD said:


> Any chance you've got more of that Hawthorn around? It's dense...



I thought for a second that was a thinly veiled dig at yours truly!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## DKMD (Sep 3, 2014)

SENC said:


> I thought for a second that was a thinly veiled dig at yours truly!



I would have said 'lazy, good-fer-nuthin Hawthorne' in that instance..

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Sep 3, 2014)

DKMD said:


> I would have said 'lazy, good-fer-nuthin Hawthorne' in that instance..


STINKY good-fer-nuthin hawthorn! 


I got the regular kind just gotta see if it is big enough.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Sep 4, 2014)

No go on the hawthorn only had a few 1.5" squares. After cutting the coco I had and inspecting it I decided to use the zircote. It is darker and the best material I have on hand at the moment. Started in on it last night. I will post pix when I wrap it up this eve.

Reactions: Like 1


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## steve bellinger (Sep 4, 2014)

Greg I think 99 % of the finials I make are holly. Cheap, holds a edge well and I have a bunch of it.also can be dyed and colored what ever color you like.


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