# Torrified Maple Test



## Karl_TN (Oct 14, 2021)

First attempt at making torrified Silver Maple. Baked a white board in toaster oven at 220, 280, 350 and 380 degrees for 30 minutes at each temp. Mostly wanting to see if roasting the maple would help show off the chatoyance more than the leaving it plain. Also, torrification is better than staining since the brown color is throughout the entire board. I can see why guitar makers like this process. 

Top board is sealed with ultra thin CA glue then buffed in out. Bottom left plain for comparison.

Reactions: Like 5 | Way Cool 5 | Informative 1


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Oct 14, 2021)

That looks awesome

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ripjack13 (Oct 14, 2021)

I love fresh roasted maple.
How'd it smell in the kitchen?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Oct 14, 2021)

Wonder what curly maple would look like torrefied


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## Karl_TN (Oct 14, 2021)

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Wonder what curly maple would look like torrefied





ripjack13 said:


> I love fresh roasted maple.
> How'd it smell in the kitchen?


Torrified curly Maple is gorgeous. The silver maple tree that this came from had a lot of tiger curl wood, but I wanted to practice it on a worthless board first.

Smells the kitchen up with a burnt smell as the temps got higher. Pushed the temp up about as far as my wife would allow without concern I was going to catch it on fire.

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## JerseyHighlander (Oct 14, 2021)

Karl_TN said:


> Torrified curly Maple is gorgeous. The silver maple tree that this came from had a lot of tiger curl wood, but I wanted to practice it on a worthless board first.
> 
> Smells the kitchen up with a burnt smell as the temps got higher. Pushed the temp up about as far as my wife would allow without concern I was going to catch it on fire.


Toaster oven should be easy enough to carry out in the back yard, no?

Interesting process. Was there any warping?


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## trc65 (Oct 14, 2021)

Interesting test and great looking results!

Q: how did you choose the temps and times? 

Q: did you have a chance to cut or work any you treated? Thinking about larger turning blanks. Also curious if a larger/ thicker piece would need much longer "treatment" to achieve the same color throughout the piece (heat x oxygen interaction). Of course many more questions, but I realize you've just started your experimets, so will pause for now.


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Oct 14, 2021)

I'd try it with some that I have but the wife would KILL me if I used the kitchen oven.


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## Karl_TN (Oct 14, 2021)

trc65 said:


> Interesting test and great looking results!
> 
> Q: how did you choose the temps and times?
> 
> Q: did you have a chance to cut or work any you treated? Thinking about larger turning blanks. Also curious if a larger/ thicker piece would need much longer "treatment" to achieve the same color throughout the piece (heat x oxygen interaction). Of course many more questions, but I realize you've just started your experimets, so will pause for now.


I started with the lower temps and a 3/4“ thick board in order just to make sure the board would be completely dry in the middle before turning up the heat above 300. Next I’ll try some thicker maple boards boards (1” to 2” thick) before risking a bowl blank of some Tiger Curl Silver Maple that I cut this spring. On second thought, I’d better try roasting a few dried cored bowls before risking this process on a 5” or 6” Tiger Curl Maple block.



JerseyHighlander said:


> Toaster oven should be easy enough to carry out in the back yard, no?
> 
> Interesting process. Was there any warping?





Eric Rorabaugh said:


> I'd try it with some that I have but the wife would KILL me if I used the kitchen oven.


Just make sure to turn the stove vent on high. Soon the temps will be cool enough to put a fan in the kitchen window for exhaust fumes while the wife is out of town. There wasn’t much warping on this board since it was pretty much dry and planed flat to begin with.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Karl_TN (Oct 14, 2021)

Correction… Those trying to google this technique should try spelling Torrefied with an ‘e’.


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## Karl_TN (Oct 14, 2021)

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Wonder what curly maple would look like torrefied


Here’s a better answer to your question…

https://ruokangas.com/specifications/thermally-aged-tonewood/

Reactions: Like 1 | EyeCandy! 1


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## Mike1950 (Oct 15, 2021)

Have you cut into it to see how deep color goes. It is my understanding that true torrified lumber is heated under vacuum. Thus they can get high temps with no fire because there is no oxygen.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Karl_TN (Oct 15, 2021)

Mike1950 said:


> Have you cut into it to see how deep color goes. It is my understanding that true torrified lumber is heated under vacuum. Thus they can get high temps with no fire because there is no oxygen.


Some woods react better to heat than others. Maple darkens throughout as long as you leave it in long enough to heat up the center and carmelize all the sugars.

Removing oxygen helps pull off the volatile fumes when doing large batches, but that isn’t really necessary or practical for a small batch of dried wood. Many Luthiers have done the oven process at home because music grade torrefied wood can be very expensive. The biggest problem for the guitar makers is having an oven big enough to hold a neck and not having any hot spots. Having a convection oven helps.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


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## FLQuacker (Oct 15, 2021)

Look at examples of roasted necks (guitar) at warmoth.com

Beautiful!

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## barry richardson (Oct 15, 2021)

Very cool, I was just recently looking into roasted wood cause I am looking for dark woods for segmented turnings that don't break the bank (or fade over time) here is a video on the subject from Woodworkers Source here in Phoenix.


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## woodtickgreg (Oct 15, 2021)

@barry richardson I can hook you up with some walnut mill rippings if your interested. If you have a planer to thickness them you'll be good. I can do a game box for ya.


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## Arn213 (Oct 15, 2021)

Karl, I don’t want to be a party pooper, but I have my own personal reservations about thermally treated (roasted/baked/torrified) maple. But, I will put up what I know to the best of my knowledge and at the same time please keep us posted with your own process/findings. This process actually came from Europe- I believe in a Scandinavian country. There are several companies here that have the proper equipment that does this process properly- well blanks for musical instruments. These companies serves and supplies the larger to medium size guitar companies and small luthiers. Knowing what I know, I would only buy through the specific channels because they have fine tuned the process along with having the proper commercial size equipment- this is utmost important for those using maple for necks.

I have notes from one builder that had troubles with thermal treated neck blanks- he talks about finding companies that properly does it correctly as the quality varied from vendor to vendor. If not they are not properly done correctly , they result is prone to cracking and moving actually. I know off a vendor and does his own roasting- he told me that this thermal application has to be done when the wood is unsurfaced as it can crack, check and move. You then surface it after it has been thermally treated. As you notice too the color tone varies on thermally treated maple from light violin amber to darker amber. Based on the luthier circles, the suggestion is to stay on the lighter color way as opposed to the darker one.

The advantage of this thermal treatment is it brings the wood to a very low moisture, it is slightly lighter and more resonant when tapped. A company that Wayne posted requires no finish on a roasted neck. That is a bonus because guitarist don’t like a sticky neck and it can cost upwards of $ 250 to finish a neck with clear coat of your choice (it feels nice and slick). Now, there is a disadvantage and this only falls in the category of musical instruments like a guitar neck. Thermal treated maple is brittle and when turning a screw say on turning post that is not properly sized, it can cost a check and crack from the pressure. This is also challenging when it comes to fret wear when the fret wire requires replacement- since it is brittle if not properly done, it can cause chipping.

If anyone here has a spare here- cross cut one and you will see what the end grain condition looks like compare to an air dried or kiln dried piece. Reminds me of a baked baguette- harder on the outside and softer on the inside. Also, if you have a longer piece, put it up on 2 blocks of cylinder (either end of the plank) and step on the middle to see what the results are.

Arn

PS- by the way there is a surge or trend as they are applying this process of thermally treated wood to a lot of species for guitar building: alder, ash (swamp ash and northern ash), mahogany, birch, walnut and most guitar sound boards (Sitka, Adirondack spruce, etc.)…….there is probably a handful more species that I don’t remember on top of my head right now.

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## barry richardson (Oct 15, 2021)

woodtickgreg said:


> @barry richardson I can hook you up with some walnut mill rippings if your interested. If you have a planer to thickness them you'll be good. I can do a game box for ya.


Thanks for the offer Greg, But I'm looking for something a bit darker...

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Oct 15, 2021)

Wonder if you roasted the walnut, what would it turn into....oh @Karl_TN


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## Karl_TN (Oct 15, 2021)

Arn213 said:


> Karl, I don’t want to be a party pooper, but I have my own personal reservations about thermally treated (roasted/baked/torrified) maple. But, I will put up what I know to the best of my knowledge and at the same time please keep us posted with your own process/findings. This process actually came from Europe- I believe in a Scandinavian country. There are several companies here that have the proper equipment that does this process properly- well blanks for musical instruments. These companies serves and supplies the larger to medium size guitar companies and small luthiers. Knowing what I know, I would only buy through the specific channels because they have fine tuned the process along with having the proper commercial size equipment- this is utmost important for those using maple for necks.
> 
> …


Good information for those reading this post. Luckily my purposes aren't to get musical grade maple since I’m not musically talented. 

I'm mostly wanting to increase the chatoyancy and darken some tiger curl maple wood without using a dye/stain. Most stains are surface deep so a scratch on light colored maple would show as a white line, but a scratch on torrefied wood would be the same color.


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## Karl_TN (Oct 15, 2021)

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Wonder if you roasted the walnut, what would it turn into....oh @Karl_TN


Torrefication ages wood. Thus, I suspect walnut might turn a lighter grey color throughout. Not near as appealing as roasting curly maple.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## bobbit (Sep 16, 2022)

I just did 700 ft of birdseye maple, curly maple and flame birch. Turned out incredible. I will post pictures. I did 5/6, 6/4 and 8/4. I just sent out another 700 ft with some of the same, but also some curly cherry and figured red oak. They can't roast white oak. It does not work well. It is expensive. I had it done with all 8 foot long boards. I did send some really high end boards in to be done.

View attachment 231382

View attachment 231383


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## Nature Man (Sep 16, 2022)

@chatometry

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 16, 2022)

@bobbit pictures from outside site services will not post. Please post pics directly from your phone or PC, thanks.


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## bobbit (Sep 16, 2022)

I will try again. Thank you.

Reactions: Like 2 | EyeCandy! 5 | Way Cool 1


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## whitewaterjay (Sep 16, 2022)

Those boards look amazing Bob! I'd love to get my hands on some wide curly or birdseye torrified maple! It doesn't seem like anyone in my area does it.


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## bobbit (Sep 16, 2022)

Thank you. I have to figure out how to make the pictures smaller. I suck at stuff like that.


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 16, 2022)

bobbit said:


> Thank you. I have to figure out how to make the pictures smaller. I suck at stuff like that.


The software will size them accordingly, we like big pics here.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## bobbit (Sep 16, 2022)

Perfect, thank you

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## Karl_TN (Sep 16, 2022)

@bobbit Mind sharing the pricing t have this done?

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## 2feathers Creative Making (Sep 16, 2022)

bobbit said:


> Perfect, thank youView attachment 231388
> 
> View attachment 231389


Oh my!

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## bobbit (Sep 16, 2022)

Shipping both ways and the treatment runs 5 to 7$ bd ft.


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## FLQuacker (Sep 16, 2022)

That's probably not a bad price. Even before seeing the pics!!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## chatometry (Sep 16, 2022)

Nature Man said:


> @chatometry


Thanks.
We made 10 curly maple samples and tested them, then we shipped them to a roasting company; when they get back we will re-test them and share the results.

My question for @bobbit is: non-roasted maple will get darker after (significant) sunlight exposure. Would this also happen on roasted maple, or is it already as dark as it can get?

Paolo

Reactions: Like 2


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## bobbit (Sep 16, 2022)

chatometry said:


> Thanks.
> We made 10 curly maple samples and tested them, then we shipped them to a roasting company; when they get back we will re-test them and share the results.
> 
> My question for @bobbit is: non-roasted maple will get darker after (significant) sunlight exposure. Would this also happen on roasted maple, or is it already as dark as it can get?
> ...


Maple yellows in direct sun. I guess you can say it gets darker. From what I have seen, roasted just stays the same, but I have not set in direct sun for any length of time.


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## chatometry (Sep 17, 2022)

We can try UV exposure after testing these samples as-roasted.
Paolo

Reactions: Like 2


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## Karl_TN (Sep 19, 2022)

chatometry said:


> Thanks.
> We made 10 curly maple samples and tested them, then we shipped them to a roasting company; when they get back we will re-test them and share the results.
> 
> My question for @bobbit is: non-roasted maple will get darker after (significant) sunlight exposure. Would this also happen on roasted maple, or is it already as dark as it can get?
> ...


Most lighter colored woods that get torrefied will turn grayish when left out in the sun for a long time unless a stain & sealant are applied.


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