# Making Damascus



## Cody Killgore

This is more metalworking, but as I'll be making some damascus for a knife in the next week or two, I thought I might as well take some pictures of the process in case anyone is interested.

The 2 pictures below show alternating layers of 1095 and 15n20. The first thing is to cut all these pieces to the same size. This is 29 pieces in total. Meaning, I am starting with 29 layers. The pieces with red paint on the ends are 15n20. This will be the first time I start with more than 15 layers. By starting with 29, it will reduce the work a good bit. If you are going to try making damascus with a hand hammer. I recommend starting with a lower layer count and only making enough for the 1 knife you are trying to make. It is a lot of work when done by hand.











Next, I ground them all clean. This removes all the scale from the steel mill and any other impurities. Not all people do this, but I feel it helps to ensure a solid weld. 

I then place the pieces in a cheap drill press vice. This holds them in position while I arc-weld them together. Arc-welding the pieces together is simply to hold them tight until I can forge-weld them together. I also weld on a piece of rebar to have a convenient handle to hold onto. Using tongs for this large piece would be frustrating at best.














*Next up is the initial forge-weld.* I'll post some more pictures when I can get started on this. It takes a little prep time so I wanted to get this done today instead of spending a morning this next week trying to get it set up. It's always better to forge in the cooler mornings

Reactions: Like 4 | Great Post 1


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## ripjack13

I'm gettin popcorn for this one....


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## rdnkmedic

Subscribed. Looking forward to this.


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## Kevin

I just love pictures. If you were explaining that without pictures I would be lost. Thanks for this thread. A rep before it is even hardly started - probably more just with this thread by the time you are done. This kind of content sets us apart from other woodworking forums and it is MUCH appreciated.


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## Wildthings

Definitely subscribing to this one

WT


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## Nature Man

Thanks for posting. Love to learn new things, and metalworking is something I know nothing about! Chuck


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## Cody Killgore

Well I was surprised to see all the interest. You guys got me so excited about it, I decided to go ahead and get started on it this morning. I would have gotten more "action" shots for you guys but I would really need someone else taking the pictures, lol.

So I did run another weld bead on each side of the billet. This was just to prevent the pieces from bowing out in the heat.





Okay so, first things first...crank up the tunes





Once that's done, it's time to light up the forge. I made this forge myself out of a 12" steel pipe that I poured refractory (high-heat) cement into. It's based on Ed Caffrey's design and has a lot of insulation so it takes probably 30-45 minutes to heat up. When I forge-weld, I generally run the forge at around 2350F. This eats up lots of propane. I have a thermocouple in there with a digital read-out of the temperature.





Now that the forge is up to temperature, I put in the large "billet".





Before it gets too hot, we need to apply a flux. The idea with the flux is to melt and coat the steel to protect it from oxygen. When steel is heated up and exposed to oxygen, it forms scale. If this scale forms between the layers, there is no way it will weld. So you want apply flux before it reaches that temperature. I usually pull it out 2-3 times while heating up and generously apply flux. It needs to get in between all the layers. I use anhydrous borax for a flux but regular 20 mule team will work fine as well. In addition to the protection from oxygen, it also lowers the melting point of the steel, further helping with the weld.










Here is a picture after it has been heated up. The borax melts and forms a molten glass-like substance that coats the steel.





When you look at the piece in the forge, eventually that smooth surface of the melted borax will start to bubble and "dance". this is when you know it's ready to weld. Here is a picture after the initial weld. Slightly squished. And if you notice, the rebar is bent pretty bad. As soon as I pulled it out of the forge, the weight of the chunk of steel on the end of the bar bent the rebar. Maybe I need to weld a more heavy-duty handle on there, lol.





Now in the last post, I made a comment about if you are doing it by hand it is a lot of work. I have done it by hand and there is no way you can make and sell damascus knives and make money doing it all by hand. I use a hydraulic forging press for drawing down the metal. Here's a few pictures of it. It makes quick-work of this huge piece. I am careful not to do too much in one heat. You want to make sure it is extremely hot when you work it or you can risk the welds slipping/shearing.














Okay so after a few heats of forging down, we need to go back and grind off the weld beads that I put on the sides. If this steel is left in the billet, it will etch a different shade of grey than the other steels and ruin the pattern. So I go to my 7" angle grinder and go ahead and grind the whole side of the billet. At this point, I am also grinding the very edges of the billet which did not fully weld. It is a lot of grinding :dash2::dash2:













Now we have one big, beautiful chunk of solid steel. Now it's time to further forge it down. We want it to get it to approximately twice it's original length. The original strips of steel were 6" long so I'm going for about 12". More forging...









Finally, we have drawn it down. Now we cut off the ends of the billet and cut it in half. Now I have 2 pieces approx 6" long that are each about 30 layers. The ends still had the weld bead steel that we needed to get rid of. For some reason I threw the breaker 3 times cutting this thing up  





Now, like before, I grind clean the surfaces that will be welded together. Then I stack these two pieces on each other and get ready for another forge-weld. Now we will be up to 60 layers. If you look close, you can see the layers running along the edge of those pieces. It seems I hit my picture limit for a post so the 2 images that would be here are in the next post.

By this time, I am hot, tired, and it's after lunch time already. This is all I'm getting done on this for the day. Now I gotta get back to grinding on some other knives.

Next up is the next forge-weld, followed by another repeated drawing out to twice it's length and stacking and another forge-weld.... Then I will forge the pattern into it and reveal it.

Thanks guys.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Cody Killgore



Reactions: Like 1 | Great Post 1


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## Kevin

Wow. It *is* a lot of work. Fantastic thread.


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## DKMD

This is an awesome thread! I don't know the first thing about metal, but I'm completely enthralled with the Damascus process... Very cool!


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## justturnin

I nominate this as Thread of the year. Awesome work.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ripjack13

I am awestruck by the awesomeness of this awesomely awe inspiring awesome work.....


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## ChrisN

Very cool! or hot! I didn't know how damascus steel was made. That's a lot of work! It's no wonder the prices are so high!


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## phinds

Very cool thread. Thanks for posting. Looking forward to more ...


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## SENC

Outstanding thread! Wish I could fast forward!


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## Cody Killgore

SENC said:


> Outstanding thread! Wish I could fast forward!



Me too :lolol:


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## robert flynt

Very labor intinsive and there is a lot metal left on the floor that is why good damascus cost $20 to $40 a square inch. A lot of the cheap stuff you see on the internet come from China and Pakistan but you don't Know the quality of the steel used ( carbon content, etc.). I never get tired of watching the process and looking forward to the rest. Way to go Cody!!! 
I found that the anhydras borax didn't foam up like 20 Mule Team Borax, I guess due it being more crystaline and it having a low moisture content. An old blade smith told me to mix some Roach Proof in the regular powdered borax and it seemed to help it work better. I know one thing, If it gets through a crack in your forge insulation it will eat a hole in it.


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## robert flynt

Cody, I was wondering if you knew mastersmith Chris Marks who lives near Bro Bridge La. You two ought to get together he is a super nice guy and ya'll would have a great time. I am trying to get him to come to the Miss. Pecan Festival this weekend where some of our group will be demonstrating blade forging. I know it is a long drive but if you are interested, it is a 3 day event that attracts 20 to 30 thousand people. You can reach me at 228-832-3378 go to www.mspecanfestival.com
If you want to get with Chris you can call him at 337-342-3322 or see his damascus at [email protected]


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## Cody Killgore

robert flynt said:


> Very labor intinsive and there is a lot metal left on the floor that is why good damascus cost $20 to $40 a square inch. A lot of the cheap stuff you see on the internet come from China and Pakistan but you don't Know the quality of the steel used ( carbon content, etc.). I never get tired of watching the process and looking forward to the rest. Way to go Cody!!!
> I found that the anhydras borax didn't foam up like 20 Mule Team Borax, I guess due it being more crystaline and it having a low moisture content. An old blade smith told me to mix some Roach Proof in the regular powdered borax and it seemed to help it work better. I know one thing, If it gets through a crack in your forge insulation it will eat a hole in it.



Yes, definitely a good deal of work! Ya know, I had heard people say to add boric acid to the 20 mule team but never got around to trying it. A quick search on Roach proof and it is 98% boric acid. Might be a nice easy way to buy some!
That flux does terrible things to the inside of forges! Especially if it is a ceramic fiber forge, it eats it up like cotton candy and you won't even have anything left! I was trying to avoid that by making it out of solid refractory cement...it is much more resistant but it still eats it up pretty bad. I just have to keep replacing a floor liner. I've also been patching holes when it does break through. One of these days, I'll have to repour the whole thing.



robert flynt said:


> Cody, I was wondering if you knew mastersmith Chris Marks who lives near Bro Bridge La. You two ought to get together he is a super nice guy and ya'll would have a great time. I am trying to get him to come to the Miss. Pecan Festival this weekend where some of our group will be demonstrating blade forging. I know it is a long drive but if you are interested, it is a 3 day event that attracts 20 to 30 thousand people. You can reach me at 228-832-3378 go to http://www.mspecanfestival.com
> If you want to get with Chris you can call him at 337-342-3322 or see his damascus at [email protected]



I have heard his name thrown around before but have never actually met him. Looking at his site, he makes some really awesome damascus patterns. I've mostly just done simple patterns but am getting into more advanced mosaic and similar crushed-w patterns. I'm sure I could learn a lot from him...he has been a master bladesmith since I was 3!!

I can't believe I have never heard of the pecan fest. If it was not such short notice, I would probably make it. I'll try to make it next year if possible. Do you sell knives there? I'm planning on starting to attend some arts/crafts and gun/knife shows trying to sell some. We have the peach festival here in Ruston and I saw someone selling forged knives there in June. I'm planning to attend next year. I've got to start building inventory. I don't have any knives made up at the moment.

This piece of damascus I'm making now is going to be a simple piece but I'm gonna try out this pattern next. A flame-edge damascus. Not very common. I like it!

Reactions: Like 3


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## Dane Fuller

Excellent thread! Keep it coming.


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## Cody Killgore

Okay here we go again....this is about to start getting repetitive. I figured I'd devote 3-4 hours a day to this chunk till i get done. The first weld was much more intense than this one because I was welding 30 layers together all at the same time. Now I just have two big chunks at 30 layers each so... really there is only 1 weld happening.

Get these 2 pieces welded together with a nice handle. I beefed it up this time and went for 3/4" square bar :teethlaugh:






Oh and protective gear helps sometimes...that molten borax stings...





Alright...so heat up the forge and get that billet heated up to around 2350F





Initial weld...





Oh and by the way, while I'm waiting for steel to heat up in the forge, I'm having to flip it over and try and clean the dies on the press for the next heat. It's just constant movement.





Also need to wire brush in between heats to get all the crud and scale off before going back in





And more forging to approx 12"...













Cut ends off, cut in half, grind clean, and re-stack













I tried to take a picture of the end and with the oxide colors from the heat you can kinda see the layers in there..





So after the next weld we'll finally be at 120 layers...Then the fun begins. We get to forge in the pattern.

Until next time...:irishjig::irishjig:

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dane Fuller

Again, awesome thread!


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## robert flynt

Cody Killgore said:


> robert flynt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very labor intinsive and there is a lot metal left on the floor that is why good damascus cost $20 to $40 a square inch. A lot of the cheap stuff you see on the internet come from China and Pakistan but you don't Know the quality of the steel used ( carbon content, etc.). I never get tired of watching the process and looking forward to the rest. Way to go Cody!!!
> I found that the anhydras borax didn't foam up like 20 Mule Team Borax, I guess due it being more crystaline and it having a low moisture content. An old blade smith told me to mix some Roach Proof in the regular powdered borax and it seemed to help it work better. I know one thing, If it gets through a crack in your forge insulation it will eat a hole in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, definitely a good deal of work! Ya know, I had heard people say to add boric acid to the 20 mule team but never got around to trying it. A quick search on Roach proof and it is 98% boric acid. Might be a nice easy way to buy some!
> That flux does terrible things to the inside of forges! Especially if it is a ceramic fiber forge, it eats it up like cotton candy and you won't even have anything left! I was trying to avoid that by making it out of solid refractory cement...it is much more resistant but it still eats it up pretty bad. I just have to keep replacing a floor liner. I've also been patching holes when it does break through. One of these days, I'll have to repour the whole thing.
> 
> 
> 
> robert flynt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cody, I was wondering if you knew mastersmith Chris Marks who lives near Bro Bridge La. You two ought to get together he is a super nice guy and ya'll would have a great time. I am trying to get him to come to the Miss. Pecan Festival this weekend where some of our group will be demonstrating blade forging. I know it is a long drive but if you are interested, it is a 3 day event that attracts 20 to 30 thousand people. You can reach me at 228-832-3378 go to http://www.mspecanfestival.com
> If you want to get with Chris you can call him at 337-342-3322 or see his damascus at [email protected]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have heard his name thrown around before but have never actually met him. Looking at his site, he makes some really awesome damascus patterns. I've mostly just done simple patterns but am getting into more advanced mosaic and similar crushed-w patterns. I'm sure I could learn a lot from him...he has been a master bladesmith since I was 3!!
> 
> I can't believe I have never heard of the pecan fest. If it was not such short notice, I would probably make it. I'll try to make it next year if possible. Do you sell knives there? I'm planning on starting to attend some arts/crafts and gun/knife shows trying to sell some. We have the peach festival here in Ruston and I saw someone selling forged knives there in June. I'm planning to attend next year. I've got to start building inventory. I don't have any knives made up at the moment.
> 
> This piece of damascus I'm making now is going to be a simple piece but I'm gonna try out this pattern next. A flame-edge damascus. Not very common. I like it!
Click to expand...

You ought to give Chris a call. He is a super nice guy to be highly educated and loves to talk. He makes some damascus for William Henry and other companies but like me not much of a promoter. The people that promote the Pecan Festival invite us every year to demonstrate forging and the guys sell all the r/r spike knives they make and I have sold as many as 11 knives there. The only problem is the threat of rain. We got rained drowned last year and didn't go back Sunday. Mostly it's a social event, like a hammer in to us.
The pattern of that blade reminds me a little of some scandinavan work I've seen with an edge wrap. I life it to!


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## Cody Killgore

Sorry guys, wasn't able to work on it today. It will resume tomorrow!

In case you were wondering...the steel for the billet was around $50 and I've used around $20 of propane so far. That's $70 materials already, not including consumables etc. :dash2::dash2:, and I'm not done yet


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## Cody Killgore

mja979 said:


> ... and how many hours of labor?



We don't need to discuss that :dunno:


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## woodtickgreg

WOW, just found this thread, very cool.  Subscribed for the rest of it.


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## Kevin

robert flynt said:


> ...You ought to give Chris a call. He is a super nice guy to be highly educated ....


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## Cody Killgore

Okay guys..getting back to repetitive-ville. So my plan was to go ahead and get the pattern forged in today. Unfortunately, when I got to the point that the bar was ready, I remembered some setup I needed to get done ahead of time. I was also getting a bit overheated :lolol:

So, forging the pattern in will happen tomorrow. Hopefully I'll get it all sanded up and etched so you guys can see the pattern as well 

Don't think I need to explain these first few pics...


























Okay...so now I need to draw it out a bit further. I'm no longer splitting it anymore as we have reached 120 layers. Now I'm wanting to get it down to about 1/2" by a little over 1".

I really want it to be as close as 1/2" as possible for the patterning step so I have placed a couple pieces of 1/2" square bar mild steel on each side of the dies. This way, when the top die comes down and hits these cold steel bars, it will stop. This way I can forge it down to almost exactly 1/2"





Now...my forge is only 16" deep so at some point it will not heat up the entire bar. I can remove the firebricks blocking off the other side but then it will use a ton of propane to keep it up to forge-welding heat. So, instead, I am just going to get enough forged down on one end of the bar then cut it off for the knife.









You can see I have more than enough. You can also see that up towards the back of the bar it is very thick. It's also getting a bit unwieldy. When I get ready to do another knife out of it, I will just draw the rest of it down. But for now I only need enough for the 1 knife.

Until tomorrow...

Reactions: Like 2


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## justturnin

Simply awesome thread.


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## Wildthings

Fabulous!! come on tomorrow


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## robert flynt

Kevin said:


> robert flynt said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...You ought to give Chris a call. He is a super nice guy to be highly educated ....
Click to expand...

You liked that did you? Couldn't help my self, the devil made me do it.One of our group is a retired professor with a doctor degree in physics and he is a super nice guy too.


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## wombat

Great thread. As an ex welder I'd almost forgotten how hot and dirty a business it is.


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## Cody Killgore

Okay, I know you guys have just been hanging off the edge of your seat to see this damascus pattern. Unfortunately......you'll have to hang on for 1 more day. I just ran out of time today to finish it up. I was just able to actually sit down and write this so here we go..

First things first... cut off the end where that weld material was. I also want it to be nice and square.





Now I am ready to forge the pattern into the steel. Here is a close-up of the die I will be using on the press. This is the bottom die. The top die also has the same pattern except that it fits inside this one. Hopefully that made sense...pictures should help.









So when I bring it out of the forge and it is hot, I will place the bar in the middle of this die and squash it.





The pattern I'm going for is essentially just the nice big curve in the middle of the die. That is why I brought the billet down to 1" wide.

So after forging the pattern in a bit, we have... this beautiful thing! Also time to cut it off the big bar.













So it may be hard to understand what is going on here but hopefully the next picture will help. If you look closely, you can actually see the layers going up and down in a sin wave looking fashion. This is what we were going for.





Now the problem is...if we take this piece and forge it back down flat, we would undo everything we just did and this pattern would flatten back out. So what we have to do now is grind away all of the ridges sticking out on both sides. This leaves us with just the pattern we are looking for. It's pretty sad as that is a lot of steel going on the floor, but it must be done.













Alrighty, so tomorrow (hopefully :lolol:) I will sand it up a bit and dip it in some acid to see what we have.

Hope you enjoyed it.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Dane Fuller

Outstanding, Cody!


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## SENC

Holy cow, Cody! I vote you pull an all-nighter so I can see more when I wake up! Thanks so much for sharing your work.
Henry


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## Cody Killgore

Thanks guys. I actually thought about going out there now that I'm free and grinding on it but...I'm just too tired.


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## Flacer22

Just saw this thread wow cool is all i can say kinda glad i got in late other wise suspense of waiting would have been.horrible!


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## rdnkmedic

I agree Senc. He acts like he's supposed to sleep EVERY day. He sure is taking a lot of breaks. This is amazing thread.


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## ripjack13

Man..I never knew how much work goes into making a knife, let alone a damascus knife. 

How many knives have you made? do you have good pictures of them? I think that if you can get 12 or 13 picture of good quality of them, and some of these process pictures, you could make an awesome calender. I'd buy a few.....

Actually, one calender can be a finished knife calender, and another calender can be a collage of the process and the finished knives....
oh...now I'm over my head.....

who makes calenders here? Dane Fuller?


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## Cody Killgore

Shall we continue? I thought I'd get up nice and early for you guys.
So we left off, late last night, having ground all those ridges off with the angle grinder. Now we need to clean it up a bit more so that we can actually see the pattern. Time to take it to the belt grinder...





Now I got a little tired of grinding on it, and I knew I was going to have to do more forging so I left a few little spots in there that I didn't get completely ground out. It's not beautiful but it will do just to see the pattern.









So I'm going to need someway to grab it out of the tank of acid. I just drill a hole in one corner and put some stainless safety wire through it.









Now I would be a lot more careful if I was doing a knife (like wear gloves and stuff) but here we are going to at least clean it up a bit with acetone. Any oil from hands, etc will show up in the final etch.





Now for the acid that I use... I use ferric chloride from radio shack. I dilute it with 3 parts water to 1 part acid. The slower the etch, the better the etch. It's sold at Radio Shack as PCB Etchant





Finally...we have made it to the fun part 
Time to dip in the the acid.









Now while that is etching, I go prepare a few more things. First, we want to neutralize the acid as soon as it comes out. This helps it to set the black color in the steel. So I fill a container with hot water and pour a little baking soda in there.













Now we are ready. I pull it out of the acid and go directly into the tank of baking soda water.





Then I hit it with some high grit sandpaper (I usually use 0000 steel wool) in the soapy water





Typically I would etch it 2-3 more times at about 30 minutes each to get a deeper etch but I'm just trying to reveal the pattern for you guys right now.


So after all that.........................................................................................................


Keep in mind that when I actually forge the knife out of it, it will push the pattern a bit closer.


















and here's a blade I made a few months ago with this same pattern..








Thanks for watching this happen guys :thanx:

Reactions: Like 6


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## kazuma78

Wow, just wow. That is incredible. Truly amazing.


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## DKMD

It's like metal burl! So cool!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Flacer22

wow all that and only one blade right? or i guess of those 29 layers u started with and all that time u put in how many blades will u get?

really stunning i had absolutely no idea how that was done really apprictiate you taking the time post post all that.


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## Cody Killgore

ripjack13 said:


> Man..I never knew how much work goes into making a knife, let alone a damascus knife.
> 
> How many knives have you made? do you have good pictures of them? I think that if you can get 12 or 13 picture of good quality of them, and some of these process pictures, you could make an awesome calender. I'd buy a few.....
> 
> Actually, one calender can be a finished knife calender, and another calender can be a collage of the process and the finished knives....
> oh...now I'm over my head.....
> 
> who makes calenders here? Dane Fuller?



Lol, I'll have to get back to you on that. I guess I'll have to start taking decent pictures of my knives so they will be "calender quality" photos. Really need to build a light box.



Flacer22 said:


> wow all that and only one blade right? or i guess of those 29 layers u started with and all that time u put in how many blades will u get?
> 
> really stunning i had absolutely no idea how that was done really apprictiate you taking the time post post all that.



Well it really depends on the size of the knives. Probably can get 2-4 knives out of it if you count the stuff still on the end of the bar that I have not forged a pattern into. The piece of damascus in the picture will get longer because it will get forged down in width. The blade width will probably only be half or so of the width of that bar.


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## Dane Fuller

That's beautiful, Cody! I'm fascinated by this process. With no distractions, could you have one forged out in a day?

Ripjack, I don't do calendars but I bet I can find somebody that does....


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## Cody Killgore

Dane Fuller said:


> That's beautiful, Cody! I'm fascinated by this process. With no distractions, could you have one forged out in a day?
> 
> Ripjack, I don't do calendars but I bet I can find somebody that does....



Start-to-finish it would probably take 2 days to make that billet. I guess technically if I worked from dusk to dawn I might could get it done, but I probably would have died from a heat stroke by then.

Edit: It might be really close to one full day. I guess I've just never been able to do it with no distractions. There is quite a bit of prep time in between the forge-welds and I almost hate to have my forge running that whole time. If I turn it off, then it takes a while to heat back up and I might as well just wait until the next day. Because of that, I often work on damascus for half-a-day and have other things planned to get done that day.

Reactions: Like 1


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## justturnin

Dang Cody, it is sad that you lost so much metal on that pattern but WOW. That is too cool. What kind of scales are worthy of that beast? Amboyna? Cocobolo Burl?


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## rdnkmedic

Sun is up Cody. Time to go to work. C'mon man, we are burning daylight. :cool2:


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## Cody Killgore

justturnin said:


> Dang Cody, it is sad that you lost so much metal on that pattern but WOW. That is too cool. What kind of scales are worthy of that beast? Amboyna? Cocobolo Burl?



Actually this one is going to have some burly cocobolo


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## Cody Killgore

rdnkmedic said:


> Sun is up Cody. Time to go to work. C'mon man, we are burning daylight. :cool2:



Shoot, it's rainy out! And today is my off day/try to turn something day.


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## robert flynt

Thanks, Cody this has helped all us knife makers to show what it takes to make a damascus billet and that is only half the story, now you have to make a knife out of it. At best were talking another day. I was given a bar 1 1/8 x 8" of damascus, as payment for a favor, that had some cold shunts on each end. Was able to con a couple of the young guys in our group to forge it down by hand, with a promise to share the billet with them. Suprised that it turned out ok. I will be able to use the end of my half, where the cold shunt are, for the hidden tang. Had a good time at the festival, sold 6 knives and my old hands even let me forge a bullnose hidden tang blade out of O1 steel before the crowd made me get back to my table.


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## Cody Killgore

robert flynt said:


> Thanks, Cody this has helped all us knife makers to show what it takes to make a damascus billet and that is only half the story, now you have to make a knife out of it. At best were talking another day. I was given a bar 1 1/8 x 8" of damascus, as payment for a favor, that had some cold shunts on each end. Was able to con a couple of the young guys in our group to forge it down by hand, with a promise to share the billet with them. Suprised that it turned out ok. I will be able to use the end of my half, where the cold shunt are, for the hidden tang. Had a good time at the festival, sold 6 knives and my old hands even let me forge a bullnose hidden tang blade out of O1 steel before the crowd made me get back to my table.




Sounds like you guys had a great time. Hopefully I'll be there next year.


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## Sprung

Wow is all I can say. After being gone all last week, I just discovered this thread last night and finished reading through it this morning. Seriously, awesome awesome thread. Thanks for sharing the process with us!


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## Molokai

Wow, missed this thread, 
nice work Cody, very nice. I didnt know the part about "pattern press"...

Kevin - Sticky - sticky, please


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## Foot Patrol

Nice job Cody. I really like your pattern. Once I get better I will try my hand on some damascus. I really like feather damascus as it really pops.

Foot


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## Cody Killgore

Foot Patrol said:


> Nice job Cody. I really like your pattern. Once I get better I will try my hand on some damascus. I really like feather damascus as it really pops.
> 
> Foot



Awesome thanks. Yeah feather is going to be hard without a press and a cutter die (do-able but hard). :dash2: :dash2: I've been wanting to try feather too. Guess I need to make a new die.


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## barry richardson

Cody, I some how I scanned over this thread this whole time, but it is outstanding. Just read the entire thread, and man am I impressed. Thanks for all your effort in documenting this for us. Never seen Damascus made before. That is some very impressive craftsmanship, your the man!

Reactions: Like 1


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## justturnin

Thread of the year right here. Lets relike it guys. Cody surely deserves it for all the effort he put into this.

Reactions: Like 3


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## SENC

I agree, Chris... I just keep hoping it will continue through to knife completion so we can see the whole process and finished product (hint, hint). Great stuff, Cody!

Reactions: Like 4


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## Cody Killgore

SENC said:


> I agree, Chris... I just keep hoping it will continue through to knife completion so we can see the whole process and finished product (hint, hint). Great stuff, Cody!



AHHHHH! :confused:

You guys are too kind

Reactions: Like 2


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## Shagee415

I just went through the whole thing. One word "awesome". I love Damascus and have a few knives. Always wondered how they made it. Thanks Cody for the post. Learned a lot.

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## manbuckwal

justturnin said:


> Thread of the year right here. Lets relike it guys. Cody surely deserves it for all the effort he put into this.


So what is the prize for thread of the year ??? Sounds like a good way for someone to get some wood :crazygirl:

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cody Killgore

manbuckwal said:


> So what is the prize for thread of the year ??? Sounds like a good way for someone to get some wood :crazygirl:


Maybe a little incentive to continue the thread??  :popcorn1: Just Kidding!!
Thanks Tom!

Reactions: Like 4


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## SENC

I'll gladly send you some wood to continue this thread!


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## Cody Killgore

SENC said:


> I'll gladly send you some wood to continue this thread!



Wow! That is super generous. I'm not sure I could accept it. Just doesn't feel right...but...how could I turn down wood....but....it doesn't feel right!! AHHHH:undecided:

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## rdnkmedic

Careful, a free box of wood could be a box of wood chips. Wood is wood, right. I say keep going too. This has been a great thread.

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## Cody Killgore

rdnkmedic said:


> Careful, a free box of wood could be a box of wood chips. Wood is wood, right. I say keep going too. This has been a great thread.



Lol!! Good point!! I'm sure I'll get around to continuing it sooner or later.


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## Cody Killgore

No worries Henry. I'll get it started back up just as soon as I can.

Reactions: Like 1


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## El Guapo

Holy smokes! I don't even know what to say... wow!


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## El Guapo

Seriously, man, that's insane! One day I will own a Kilgore Blade, and I will drive people crazy on here letting them know about it! Until that day, I will humbly lust after the blades you make for others.

Thanks for letting us all see the journey that those 29 layers took to become a finished product.

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## Cody Killgore

Okay. I was sittin here thinking that it may be a little bit before I'm able to start the thread back up from beginning to end. However, I was in the process of sanding on one. I just thought I'd share this. It's pretty straight-forward sanding. I think scale-makers could use this to put a real nice finish on the knife blanks they buy. Who knows... anyhow. Horizontal sand marks like these are usually a sign of a hand-made knife. It shows the maker took the time to hand-finish his knife. Knives with the vertical scratch marks are pretty much straight off of a grinder.

Trying to sand on a hollow ground knife like this is a little more work. The backing material you use for your sandpaper needs to have the same radius of the wheel that cut the hollow. They make these you can buy or you could make you're own. You would need to know, however, the diameter of the wheel used (be it 6", 8", 10", 12", or 14").

For convex grinds, you need a soft backing so it can flex around the curve.

So before I thought about taking pictures of this, I had already sanded one side. You will see my knife in the vise with a paper towel under it. This is just to help protect the already sanded side from getting scratched up. When I'm doing the first side, I just put a steel bar under it. I put this steel bar under the knife for two reasons. First, and most importantly, it is to keep me from impaling myself. People do it. It's easy to get lost in sanding and forget there is a sharp pointy object right in front of you. Secondly, it keeps me from putting to much lateral stress on the blade if I'm really sanding aggressively. You can see the bar below the knife in this picture.





My new light did funny things to my pictures so you'll have to bear with me. So, when I finish grinding the knife after heat treat, I take it to this vice and start hand-sanding. You can also c-clamp the knife to your workbench. These knife vises are nice though. I use it for all sanding on the knife...on the blade and the handle. it swivels around full 360 degrees.




The sophisticated sanding device that I use is a spare steel bar that I found laying around in the shop. I wrap a piece of sandpaper around the bar and as I use each side, I rip it off and throw it in the trash. People use all sorts of backing. For flat grinds, you want any backing that is fairly rigid and flat. Some people use bars of micarta, stiff rubber, etc.




All I do is spray the blank down with a little WD-40 and start sanding back and forth on the knife. All flats on the knife are sanded separately. So, in this case, the ricasso area will be sanded separately from the rest of the blade. Same technique is used though.

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## Cody Killgore

One important thing to mention... When you stop at the plunge line and start coming back, you will leave J-shaped scratch marks on the blade. These will be at a distance, from the plunge line ,equal to the width of the sanding bar you use. In order to prevent these scratches from happening, lift the back of the bar up as you approach the plunge cut. Then as you come back, slowly bring it back down. You eventually get into a rhythm with it. You can also cause the scratches to happen at the tip of the blade if you don't go the full length.




I usually start sanding with 220 grit. For satin finishes, I stop around 600. For high polish, I go up to 2000 and then buff.
Another very important thing is the light source. You want to make sure you have really bright light above you so you can catch all the little scratches in the reflection.
Once I have removed ALL of the scratches from the grinder, I move on to the next grit.
With the next grit, I will sand in a different direction. This allows me to see when I have gotten rid of all the sand marks from the previous grit. I change my sanding pattern to diagonal, as you can see in the image.




Again, after all scraches are removed, I move on up and go back to nice horizontal sanding. Repeat until you are happy. After finished with the last grit, I stop using the WD-40 and "drag" the sandpaper across the knife to make sure all the funny scratches are gone, and to make sure that the scratches are in the direction that I want them to be in.
Here is where I ended up after 600 grit. Nice satin finish.

Reactions: Like 7


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## Cody Killgore

Now I put my name on the blade. For this, I use an electro-chemical etching machine. Here's mine. These are simple devices and there are plans to make your own online from stuff available from radio shack. People also do this with a 9V battey, some salt water, and a q-tip. However you wanna do it. I like the little store-bought machine.




You can make your own stencils or buy them. In this case, I made my own. I buy the light-sensitive stencil material and use an image printed on transparency film to make them. Some people actually just paint the knife with fingernail polish and scratch off the design they want to etch. The polish acts as a resist.




In this step, you definitely do not want any oils or anything that may mess up the etch on the blade. I usually wipe it down with a little DNA.




Okay, so position stencil where you want it, tape it down with some electrical tape, and attach red lead wire to the knife.

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## Cody Killgore

The other wire goes to a pad that you soak with an electrolyte solution.




Now we just turn the machine on and press the pad onto the stencil. I lift it off every few seconds to release any trapped air, etc. You can do it for as long as you want and etch as deep as you want. The machine has 2 switches. It switches between AC and DC. DC just removes metal and deepens the etch. AC puts some back on in the form of black. So typically you use DC to get the desired depth then switch over to AC to make sure it's nice and black in the bottom for better contrast.





When you're all done, pull of the tape and reveal....the mess you've made (yes this is a damascus knife). Quickly rinse it off to neutralize any solution that may still be on the blade.




Time to go sand on it some more with 600 grit to clean it up a bit.




Now...much better.

Reactions: Like 10


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## Cody Killgore

After just posting about finish-sanding, it may seem in backwards order. The next update will probably start with forging the blade, then move on to grinding, heat treating, etc.

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## ripjack13

I was wondering how you put your name on it. This topic keeps gettin better and better...

Great job Cody...

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## Molokai

Cody, i use nail polish and want to improve myself.
Is it possible to make me a sheath of those stickers with my name on it?
Thinking of just MK logo.
if its a problem or takes too much of your time, i understand.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cody Killgore

Molokai said:


> Cody, i use nail polish and want to improve myself.
> Is it possible to make me a sheath of those stickers with my name on it?
> Thinking of just MK logo.
> if its a problem or takes too much of your time, i understand.



Hey man,

If I had the time/materials to make you a full sheet, I would attempt it but I don't. I typically only make 1 stencil at a time (probably not the best way). The place I usually buy my stencil material is currently out of stock (USAKnifemaker). Also, I don't have enough developer solution to try it. I am actually planning on buying a sheet of stencils made from a "professional" instead of buying another sheet of stencil material. I'm just getting tired of making them myself when I could order a sheet of them for not too much and it will last me a LONG time.

I'll copy and paste the info that USAKnifemaker typed up about getting stencil material made. Hopefully this helps. I see you are in Croatia so I'm not sure how that will affect things. *If this doesn't work out, I would be happy to try and make you just 1 or 2 and send it your way to try (I still have a little stencil material left that needs to be used). I can't guarantee they will be perfect. I always test mine on a scrap piece of steel before using it on a knife to make sure it turned out good.*

"You can contact IMG of Utica, Inc at 315-735-7591 or FAX 315-732-4262. Patricia will make you a stencil to your exact needs. Generally, there is a one time art charge. This will vary with the amount of work required but it will start around $30 for simple lettering and up. The stencils are done on material that is 2" x 7" and you will get several stencils from one "sheet". You should get hundreds of impressions from one stencil. I find I get 50+ and then move to a new stencil as the screen starts to clog. I like them nice and crisp. "

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## Molokai

No problem, i understand.


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## SENC

Glad you're back at it! THANKS!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cody Killgore

Oh and this is my new shop light. I wanted a good light to go over my grinder. Got tired of squinting to try and figure out what I'm doing in the shadows. Tried to find a light that I could mount on the wall and move around. I was looking at those they sell with the flexible snake type arms but the arms weren't really long enough...then I found this. I had never seen these. It's listed as a dock light. I believe they use them at loading docks to look down into the backend of a semi. This one has an LED bulb. It's almost too bright :P.

It has a 60" reach. I can move it from over my belt grinder to over my workbench to where I'm hand-sanding.

Reactions: Like 7


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## Sprung

Looks like a very nice upgrade in lighting for you!

And I can't wait to see more of your progress on the damascus!


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## rdnkmedic

Cody, that light is just the thing we all need. Over the lathe, over the bandsaw, over the workbench, anywhere. Do you mind sharing the cost and where you got it from?

Reactions: Like 5


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## Cody Killgore

rdnkmedic said:


> Cody, that light is just the thing we all need. Over the lathe, over the bandsaw, over the workbench, anywhere. Do you mind sharing the cost and where you got it from?



Hey,
If you do a search for dock lights, you can see all sorts of them. I can't seem to find the email but I think mine was this one. It was around $130 without the bulb and another $100 for the bulb. They've got all kinds.... incandescent, halogen, LED, high pressure sodium, you name it. They also have some super duper HDLEDs...but that was just a little more than I was wanting to spend. They also sell 90" and I've seen them up to at least 114" as well.


http://industrialdocklights.com/inc/sdetail/1453

Reactions: Like 2


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## Cody Killgore

Well fellas...it's getting closer to getting this thread on the road again. The layer of dust on my hammers was too thick. Had to crank up the forge and get to making some more damascus.











I can almost see Cliff's knife in there...  No worries fellas. I'm not gonna make you watch the whole process again. I'll be skipping ahead when the time is right. I did get at least the initial forge-welding done today (spared you the picture...mostly cuz I forgot to take one). Ohhhh the smell of burning welding rods and scorched leather glove in the afternoon....

Reactions: Like 10


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## Wildthings

YAAAAY!!! here we go!!


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## Shagee415

sweet


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## Cody Killgore

Well I was planning on getting more done. I had a trip to Florida and lots of Thanksgiving stuff going on. Thought I'd post a few pics. I think you guys have already seen some of this..lol

So forge it down to the size I want before pressing in the pattern





And press the pattern in.
.





Now Grind the ridges off...





And grab your favorite hammer

Reactions: Like 2


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## Cody Killgore

Now with damascus, I don't always fully forge in the bevels. This depends on the pattern and how much I want to distort the pattern. I'm mostly concerned with forging in the tip. This piece of damascus is not straight patterned, but just to give you an idea...if you bought a bar of straight pattern damascus ("random") and cut out the blade profile, you would end up with something like the first picture in the next image. If you took that bar and forged in the tip, now you would have those layers following the profile of the blade. This is more aesthetically pleasing in my opinion. It also shows that the blade profile was forged. With this pattern it actually ends up squishing the chevron shapes down.





Unfortunately, it would be one heck of a long thread if I tried to explain the whole forging/grinding processes. You'll have to do your own research there, haha. I've also learned it is nearly impossible to forge and hold the camera at the same time. Just so you know though, for the tip you would be hitting the bar at an angle like this...





Of course...as you hammer and shape the tip, the edges flare out so you would need to hammer back it back flat...etc... So we start to forge in the tip...





And refine a bit more...

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## Cody Killgore

Now I'm going to use my ghetto pattern to make some final adjustments...I know I need to make one out of steel.





And........I'll have to continue later...sorry.

Reactions: Like 7


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## Wildthings

Cody Killgore said:


> Unfortunately, it would be one heck of a long thread if I tried to explain the whole forging/grinding processes.


 
I'm not doing anything right now!! Bring it on! LOL Great stuff Cody


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## SENC

Yep, great stuff!! 



Wildthings said:


> I'm not doing anything right now!! Bring it on! LOL Great stuff Cody


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## Cody Killgore

Well. I've been going back and forth about how I want to continue this. There is a lot to grinding. More than I want to write about. Maybe I can elaborate on it at a later date. You would probably be better off reading a book or buying a DVD on it 
There are a few things I forgot to take a picture of. I get focused and don't think about it.

After forging, I do 3 normalizing cycles (heat up to above critical in forge and let it air cool) This makes the steel structure more uniform and helps the heat treat later. After this, I do a full spheroidal anneal. Annealing makes the steel as soft as it will become and reduces wear on belts and tools.

After the anneal, I glue on a pattern so I can clean up the profile on the grinder.











Very roughly cleaned up...I finish cleaning up the finger choil with a small wheel after this...

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## Cody Killgore

Clean up the sides with the grinder and draw a line close to where I want the plunge line to be.





And...start grinding. I do this freehand on the flat platen.





Closer... I won't go too much farther than this before heat treat.





For the holes, I mark a line with a pair of calipers. I usually just decide where to put them on the line by eye. It follows the back edge of the knife so I can make sure the pins follow the back profile of the handle

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## Cody Killgore

Next up is the heat treatment. Before I do this, I do a stress-relieving heat on the knife to make sure I don't end up with any warps during the quench caused by grinding/drilling holes (didn't get a pic of this).
Get our oven up to austenizing temp for hardening quench...





I use Parks #50 Quench oil for 1095 and similar fast quench steels. This is a commercial quench oil and is engineered to withstand a lot of quenches.





I have mine in a piece of I-beam. I welded plates on the end to close it up. I usually heat the oil up to around 100F prior to the 1st quench.





In we go... (this picture was taken before I turned the oven on. I put the knife in after it is up to temp but knew I wouldn't want to try and take a pic then so....whatever.

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## Cody Killgore

So I let the knife soak at that temperature for just a few minutes then quench into the tub of oil previously pictured. I then make sure it is completely cooled by dunking in water and quickly go into the toaster oven for the inital temper. Because toaster ovens can be notoriously inaccurate and fluctuations can be severe...I put an oven thermometer in there. I also added some firebricks in the bottom to try and increase the thermal mass of the oven. I usually temper really low in this toaster oven then go back to the heat treat oven for a final more precise temper afterwards.

Here's what it looks like after taken out of the quench.





Now we clean it up a bit and do some final grinding...





And back to hand-sanding.






Not quite caught up to where I am but I will probably finish this portion of the thread up when i get some time on Sunday.

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## Cody Killgore

This is an old picture I found but it shows you what I'm talking about with the flat platen on the grinder...





And almost forgot the picture of the toaster oven!!!

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## ripjack13

What's with one barefoot?

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## Cody Killgore

ripjack13 said:


> What's with one barefoot?


Trying to get a toe shot in for you guys....

Reactions: Like 6


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## rdnkmedic

Cody Killgore said:


> Trying to get a toe shot in for you guys....



Well, it's about time. We've all been waiting patiently.

Reactions: Like 3


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## ripjack13

goslin99 said:


> Is that a toe ring??



Looks like a dirt ring. Lol


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## Cody Killgore

You guys are too funny...It's definitely not a toe ring. Not sure what you're talking about. Maybe a shadow...or hair? lol!

Reactions: Like 2


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## rdnkmedic

At least you took the polish off before you took the picture.

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## manbuckwal

Great Thread Cody ! This never gets boring .

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## woodintyuuu

go cody go


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## Cody Killgore

Ok so we left off with me hand-sanding the blade. I sand it up to 600 grit then dip it in some acid 

http://i.Rule #2/lN0Q6S8.jpg

Lookin good...
http://i.Rule #2/dtIBKZf.jpg

Time to drill some holes in the wood for the pins.
http://i.Rule #2/NoTKHYk.jpg

Reactions: Like 4 | Great Post 1


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## Cody Killgore

Temporarily stick some pins in the handle and get the front of the wood against the ricasso finished up.
http://i.Rule #2/17wrWzn.jpg

Glue them suckaz on. I use Acraglas. This stuff takes several hours just to set up.
http://i.Rule #2/qOwiHfd.jpg

And clamp...and...wait 24 hours
http://i.Rule #2/WcRUwJC.jpg

After this...shape handle up a bit and done! Also here's my dad working on the sheath. I get him to do leather sheaths for me.
http://i.Rule #2/yKjaVSh.jpg

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## Cody Killgore

And the knife... Sheath still needs another coat or two of finish on it in this picture.

OAL: 9 3/4" Sharpened edge: 5"
http://i.Rule #2/c7LPK2B.jpg



Sorry if that seemed like a fast-forward. I wasn't able to get as many pictures as I would have liked. Maybe next time I can get someone to take pictures for me.

Reactions: Like 9 | EyeCandy! 1 | Great Post 1


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## Sprung

Cody, this thread and that knife are fantastic! Seriously - awesome, awesome work! You truly are a craftsman. Thank you for sharing this with us - I have enjoyed seeing all the steps that go into making this. Maybe someday I'll have enough cash or wood to exchange for one of your knives (even a non-damascus one would be awesome to have.)

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## woodintyuuu

Cody HUMBLED is the only thing that can describe my emotions over this. When we started this journey i hoped that we would develop a kindred and honrous relationship. It is SO!! thx for letting me enjoy this as much as i believe you have. thanks again cliff

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## manbuckwal

Love that Damascus style ! BEAUTIFUL !!!!!! HRB for the handle?


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## Cody Killgore

woodintyuuu said:


> Cody HUMBLED is the only thing that can describe my emotions over this. When we started this journey i hoped that we would develop a kindred and honrous relationship. It is SO!! thx for letting me enjoy this as much as i believe you have. thanks again cliff



Cliff. THANK YOU! for giving me the opportunity to do what I love to do . I sure did enjoy the jounrey and getting loads of wood in the process . One day I will buy a teapot from you. Those things blow my mind 



manbuckwal said:


> Love that Damascus style ! BEAUTIFUL !!!!!! HRB for the handle?



Thanks Tom! That was a piece of Amboyna that Cliff sent me.


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## Mike1950

Very beautiful KNIFE.


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## Molokai

Cody, nice and amazing knife and damascus. What is the wood ? HRB or amboyna burl?


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## Cody Killgore

Molokai said:


> Cody, nice and amazing knife and damascus. What is the wood ? HRB or amboyna burl?



Thanks! It is amboyna burl


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## Cody Killgore

Also for anyone wondering. OAL of knife is 9 3/4". Sharpened edge is 5"

Went ahead and edited those dimensions into the post with the picture.


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## Cody Killgore

And while I'm posting additional info...

This one was Rockwell tested 3 times in different places. All 3 read almost exactly 60 HRC.
http://i.Rule #2/FEDduWe.jpg



And it wouldn't be a knife if it wasn't sharp too.... Sorry for the blurry pic. It was a challenge to try and take that picture.....lol. Durn camera wanted to focus on the floor. I sharpen by hand on japanese waterstones

Also had to find a place on an arm that I still had some hair. The tops of both arms are pretty bare from sharpening other knives. Had to go to the underside. 
http://i.Rule #2/Ba1P2qe.jpg

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## Johnturner

Cody
This is very interesting!
Is all the steel you started out with going to be one blade?
It looks very labor intensive.
Thanks
John

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## Cody Killgore

Johnturner said:


> Cody
> This is very interesting!
> Is all the steel you started out with going to be one blade?
> It looks very labor intensive.
> Thanks
> John



Thanks! No, it usually makes 2-3 depending on the size of the knives. It's a lot of work but when you pull it out of the acid and see the pattern, it makes it all worth it


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## rdnkmedic

Impressed is an understatement. 

This thread gets my vote for thread of the year. First prize is a LFRB of sawdust and shavings from everybody.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Cody Killgore

rdnkmedic said:


> Impressed is an understatement.
> 
> This thread gets my vote for thread of the year. First prize is a LFRB of sawdust and shavings from everybody.



Lol! Thanks Kevin! I'm amazed that this thread hit 3000 views. That's too cool. Thanks everyone for watching. I may continue it with some wacky new damascus patterns soon

Reactions: Like 4


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## woodtickgreg

Thanks for doing this, it was a very enjoyable thread to follow along with. Great looking knife too!

Reactions: Like 1


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## rdnkmedic

Cody Killgore said:


> Lol! Thanks Kevin! I'm amazed that this thread hit 3000 views. That's too cool. Thanks everyone for watching. I may continue it with some wacky new damascus patterns soon


We might need you to pitch in on the shipping costs of your prizes. We'll let you know.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cody Killgore

rdnkmedic said:


> We might need you to pitch in on the shipping costs of your prizes. We'll let you know.




Depends on what kind of sawdust we talking about


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## Wildthings

Cody that sheath is splendid also along with the knife. What's the finish he's using? Tell dad AWESOME job!

Barry

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## SENC

Stunning, Cody, thank you so much for sharing!!!!!

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## Cody Killgore

Wildthings said:


> Cody that sheath is splendid also along with the knife. What's the finish he's using? Tell dad AWESOME job!
> 
> Barry



Thanks! I'll let him know  The problem was that the dye was taking forever to dry. So we had to wait to put the finish on. He uses eco-flo carnauba cream leather finish.

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## woodintyuuu

cody its here and is drop dead lovely thx thx thx cl

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## robert flynt

Cody you took everyone on a wonderful journey from start to finish. I really enjoyed the trip!! Do you get Blade magazine? Lots of good stuff there.


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## Cody Killgore

robert flynt said:


> Cody you took everyone on a wonderful journey from start to finish. I really enjoyed the trip!! Do you get Blade magazine? Lots of good stuff there.



Thanks Robert! I do get BLADE. There is definitely some great stuff in there. I noticed you were in the directory


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## robert flynt

Yes, It helps to get listed. A man from the Carolinas saw one of my knives in the Knife book this past week and was able to get in touch, to place an order, because of the directory.Once listed you can send good quality pictures of some of your knives to the editor of the Knife Book. He selects a set number of pictures to publish in the once a year publication. He sells the books and you get free advertisement, it's a win win situation.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blueglass

Gorgeous!


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## bald9eagle

I tip my hat to you sir.


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## duncsuss

Wow ... I only just found out about this thread because you (Cody) put a piece of Damascus into the Spring Auction. Mind blown.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## RexB

This is fantastic! I never knew anything about the process, strength and beauty of the knives. Thank you for taking the time to educate myself and others on this.


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## rdnkmedic

If we had voted for thread of the year in 2013, this thread would have gotten my vote.

Reactions: Agree 1


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