# help with ID



## barry richardson (Jan 25, 2021)

Bought a few random pieces of wood from an old woodworker/woodturner who had passed. His turning club held a garage sale for the widow to sell his woodworking stuff, he had a lot of lumber as well, but by the time I got there it was mostly gone. Picked up a few boards. this one didn't look that interesting, but it was only a couple of bucks, kind of tan in color. fast forward a few months to today, I pulled it out and thought I might use it for something, when I ran it over the jointer, it was a pretty brilliant pink inside, checked around on the web and on Paul's site and find similarities with tulip wood. weight is in the ball park; I calculated 58, lb per cubic foot, color is similar. Even though the end grain looks rough, it is sanded to 600 grit, very fine pores, even under my 20x loupe, what say the experts? shown are the end grain, the flat face and the edge of the board.... the face grain pic shows an area of oxidation, that is what the whole board looked like when I bought it, no telling how long this guy had it in his stash...

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 1


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## Arn213 (Jan 25, 2021)

Tulipwood has very strong demarcated winter growth rings. Peroba Rosa? It is beautiful, regardless what it is. It looks dense and hard. What is the size of the plank and the spindle block?

Arn


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## phinds (Jan 25, 2021)

I don't see the single row of decent sized pores that tulipwood has at the start of the early wood, but I can't really quite tell from that pic. It doesn't seem well focused enough. 

To me it looks more like pink ivory.


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## Tclem (Jan 25, 2021)

Pink ivory. I have some in the shop that looks like that

Reactions: Like 1


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## Arn213 (Jan 25, 2021)

That was my initial thought, but Barry said it was “kind of tan in color”. You can see the areas of oxidation. Pink ivory will not turn from tan to pink.


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## barry richardson (Jan 25, 2021)

phinds said:


> I don't see the single row of decent sized pores that tulipwood has at the start of the early wood, but I can't really quite tell from that pic. It doesn't seem well focused enough.
> 
> To me it looks more like pink ivory.


I agree, it does look more like pink Ivory....


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## barry richardson (Jan 25, 2021)

Arn213 said:


> That was my initial thought, but Barry said it was “kind of tan in color”. You can see the areas of oxidation. Pink ivory will not turn from tan to pink.


Arn, It turned from tan to pink when I removed the surface. Pink on the inside, oxidized tan on the outside. BTW it is just one piece, 3.75 x .80 x 48 inches

Reactions: Like 2


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## Arn213 (Jan 25, 2021)

Well Barry the tan oxidation threw me off- that’s good new though. If you decide to sell it, I like to be in line as I can use it for a project. Thanks. Arn

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gonzalodqa (Jan 26, 2021)

I would agree with Peroba rosa as a guess. The face doesn't really look like pink ivory to me and the end grain gives me more doubts about it.


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## phinds (Jan 26, 2021)

Gonzalodqa said:


> I would agree with Peroba rosa as a guess. The face doesn't really look like pink ivory to me and the end grain gives me more doubts about it.


Why? The end grain is perfectly consistent with pink ivory. What is it that makes you think otherwise?


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## Gonzalodqa (Jan 26, 2021)

Because it is also similar to Peroba rosa end grain. Those sentences should have been together, I missed a dot there


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## Mr. Peet (Jan 26, 2021)

My first thought was 'Redheart', as I have seen plenty that was a solid color, lacking streaks but the weight does not jive. Pink ivory does make sense. Must have been sitting many, many years.

Massaranduba was another thought I had, but fleeting based on color and weight.

Think the pink is good...


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## phinds (Jan 26, 2021)

Barry, can you get a better end grain shot?


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## Gonzalodqa (Jan 26, 2021)

Could also be a type of Nothofagus. Some in chile have a redish color I think its common name is Coihue or Coigue
But the weight its still too high for those I think
Maybe it is pink ivory after all


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## Arn213 (Jan 26, 2021)

I just want to add something’s until Barry gets a better shot of the end grain per Paul. My initial impression was pink ivory, but the “winter growth rings” being pronounced (rendered) what actually made me hesitant as they usually are “color on color” that either blends with the color of the heartwood or it is a shade of the heartwood coloration. Peroba Rosa was my other guess, which I posted w/ a question mark as it has pinkish heartwood with light tan undertones. It also has fine surface texture like pink ivory and both are diffuse porous (other things that separates them). The pink ivory is heavier- about 20%+ difference between the two. Peroba Rosa has more of a salmon pink coloration and does not have the pink ivory heartwood version of pinkish red.

This was the pink ivory pair I posted with the issue of pink ivory “browning” on a different thread. See photo below of the end grain and should be enlargeable.





Barry do you have a digital scale that will give you exact weight? I have a median of 5.75 pounds per board foot for pink ivory.


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## Arn213 (Jan 26, 2021)

Below are examples of Peroba Rosa that I mentioned above. Photo’s are not mine and posted as reference. These from what I know where “reclaimed” Peroba Rosa from houses in Brazil.


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## barry richardson (Jan 26, 2021)

So far Pink Ivory looks most similar from all the pics I've seen around the web. On Wood Database, there is a video clip on the Pink Ivory page where a guy shows an oxidized piece that he cleans up, looks like what I had to begin with.. here is a shot I made with my camera through a 20x loupe, maybe it will help, this was the best of several attempts... the circle is approx. 1/2 "


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## barry richardson (Jan 26, 2021)

I think this one might be better...


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## Arn213 (Jan 26, 2021)

Here is another photo of an unusual peach figured pink ivory that I posted on another thread. Photo for end grain visual winter ring reference:


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## Gonzalodqa (Jan 26, 2021)

barry richardson said:


> I think this one might be better...
> View attachment 201128


that looks like pink ivory (the amount of rays) are the pores radial multiples?


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## Arn213 (Jan 26, 2021)

@barry richardson - I hope you don’t mind, but I reoriented your end grain photo as well as adjusted the brightness and reposted (if not I’ll remove it). To help visually, I saved an image from the Wood Data base of the magnified end grain of the pink ivory and the Peroba Rosa. I converted it to black and white as it is more neutral to decipher the growth rings, pores, parenchyma, etc.


Your general end grain photo from post 1:
View attachment 201141





Your end grain close-up photo:





Pink Ivory end grain (Wood Data base):





Peroba Rosa (Wood Data base; brightness adjusted):


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## barry richardson (Jan 26, 2021)

Thanks Arn, so what is your opinion?


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## Arn213 (Jan 26, 2021)

barry richardson said:


> Thanks Arn, so what is your opinion?


@barry richardson - I want to believe this is pink ivory and leaning on that because of the 2 color photo’s you provided. The 2 things that perhaps @phinds, @Mr. Peet , @Gonzalodqa that needs further analyzing/investigation and requiring throwing their 2 (or 3) sense into it (in technical terms) are the “demarcated growth rings” on your general photo and the “parenchyma” configuration- to me visually what you have looks like a combination of the pink ivory and Peroba Rosa. If you look at your end grain close up, you can see the pores are so tightly group together, then there are spaces of no pores horizontally (barely)- if you look at Wood Data base, the Peroba Rosa end grain close up has densely grouped all around with “no space to breath”, for a lack of a better word. The pink ivory close up at the Wood Data base of the pink ivory- the pores looked more semi-compact and not as tightly grouped. I also have not bumped into any pink ivory with that strong demarcated winter growth rings (really readable) and the samples I have shown and in my stock- the winter growth rings blends more that it contrast. My 2 cents.

What the hell do I know, I only read construction drawings.
The weight for me per board foot helps me personally when trying to figure out the species if unknown (plus aroma). I think you have 1 board foot of lumber and like I said, pink ivory on average will be at 5.75 pounds per board foot- it never ever goes under 5 pounds. A hair plus 5 pounds would be curly and will have some sapwood at the outside. Peroba rosa will be at the median of 4.50 pounds per board foot. There is 20%+ difference in weight between the two. The pink ivory too is a pita to resaw, like pernambuco- it is like cutting through granite.......I rather resaw Honduran mahogany as it is buttery to mill.


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## phinds (Jan 26, 2021)

Arn213 said:


> I also have not bumped into any pink ivory with that strong demarcated winter growth rings (really readable) and the samples I have shown and in my stock- the winter growth rings blends more that it contrast. My 2 cents.


How about this one:




My point is NOT that I am 100% convinced that this is one wood or the other but rather that end grain variability has to be taken into account.

I can show you peroba rosa with noticeable growth ring boundaries and other pieces without same. The same comment applies to pink ivory.

I need to dig into this more but I would point out that if you look on my site you'll see that the pores in peroba rosa are generally noticeably larger and less dense than those for pink ivory and that the color for this "mystery" piece is much more consistent with pink ivory than with peroba rosa.

What is REALLY needed is a better end grain pic.


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## Arn213 (Jan 26, 2021)

phinds said:


> How about this one:
> View attachment 201159
> 
> My point is NOT that I am 100% convinced that this is one wood or the other but rather that end grain variability has to be taken into account.
> ...


I saw that on your website and just to amuse you (and hope you don’t mind), I also converted it to black and white. You will see it better in the black and white as what I mean by “color on color”. You can see from the general end grain photo on his that there is clear separation compare with yours- I am talking about the color gradation too.

Your PI at hobbithouse:





Barry’s from 1st post:





This is your PI (hobbit house) above adjusted brightness and exposure:




[I removed the MASSIVE amounts of black nothing you had at the top and bottom of this pic. It would be good if you could crop your pics as needed. Paul]

If you compare yours vs Barry’s you can see the bands of color are different- yours is variegated, but it is color on color of the pink hues. Barry’s has one base color tone of pink across with the clear demarcation of winter growth rings. Basically what I am saying is the difference is the color bleed transitions (bands of) what yours has and Barry’s does not- it goes though the spectrum of pink shades. His is monotone with clear demarcation of growth rings (medium-dark shade of pink).

_*Addendum: thank you @phinds for cropping the black space in the photo._


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## phinds (Jan 26, 2021)

Arn213 said:


> I saw that on your website and just to amuse you (and hope you don’t mind), I also converted it to black and white.


I really have not been paying close enough attention to this thread. Don't know what my problem is but my head's just not in wood today.


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## Arn213 (Jan 26, 2021)

@barry richardson, this could be easily resolved. Just send it to me and I’ll confirm to you what it is .

Ship to:
Mr. Tommy “Pinky Stinky” Tutone
867-5309 Carrie Jenny Lane
Brokelyn, New Yaaawk 11237

Reactions: Funny 4 | +Karma 1


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## barry richardson (Jan 26, 2021)

phinds said:


> What is REALLY needed is a better end grain pic.


That last one is not good enough?


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## phinds (Jan 26, 2021)

barry richardson said:


> That last one is not good enough?


Actually, Arn's blowup of it does look good enough. See post #26.


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## barry richardson (Jan 26, 2021)

Post 26 says nothing to reverse your earlier comment


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## Mike1950 (Jan 26, 2021)

Pink ivory

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## phinds (Jan 26, 2021)

barry richardson said:


> Post 26 says nothing to reverse your earlier comment


Ah, no. I just meant that I haven't been paying proper attention.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tclem (Jan 26, 2021)

Mike1950 said:


> Pink ivory


I said that 4 days ago

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## Mike1950 (Jan 26, 2021)

Tclem said:


> I said that 4 days ago


I thought we got rid of you-fir good....

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Maverick (Jan 26, 2021)

Mike1950 said:


> I thought we got rid of you-fir good....


 
but he is back by poplar demand

Reactions: Funny 1


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## BangleGuy (Jan 26, 2021)

barry richardson said:


> I think this one might be better...
> View attachment 201128


Now that is a closeup!


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## BangleGuy (Jan 26, 2021)

These wood ID threads are always amusing. Like chum in shark filled waters. This reminds me of a Sixteen Candles quote, but applied to wood





I spend less time thinking about the wood ID and more time making something

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Arn213 (Jan 29, 2021)

Per @barry richardson.........from clockwise the mystery wood (top), pink ivory crotch (right side) and African sumac (bottom).
Photographed with over head fluorescent lighting (2 photo’s) and the rest outdoors with natural lighting conditions.

Wood dims: 6” x 4” x .750” thickness. Weight ~ 8.99 ounces.
Moisture content ~ 8-9%.
Weight per board foot ~ 4.495 lbs.
Flat sawn cut.


Shown dry:






Wiped with alcohol:






Mystery wood face grain front & back (dry):










Mystery wood end grain (dry):










Pink Ivory end grain (hobbithouse):






Pink Ivory (cropped for scale from Wood Database):






Peroba Rosa end grain (hobbithouse):









_*Last updated 01-31-2021_


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## Arn213 (Jan 29, 2021)

Let me add this as a form of visual reference on pink ivory (fluorescent overhead lighting above):

A (left plank): rough milled/unsurfaced; note the “beige/light tan color”.

B (middle): skip surfaced/planer hit/miss skip; the beige/light tan color is the “peach fuzz” unsurfaced area and not part of the heartwood. 

C: (right): surfaced 1 face. Note the pink color heartwood.


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