# My 1st Box Attempt



## Spa City Woodworks (Aug 12, 2012)

After viewing Mike's box tutorial, I decided to give it a shot. I used some scrap pieces of Afzelia that I had laying around. The splines are Miniritchie. I went ahead and finished the interior before assemembly with some wipe-on Poly. Things were going good until the last pass when cutting the cove. Instead of using 2 straight edge guides, I only used one and had a uh-oh moment. I'll leave it till next weekend and ponder how to salvage it. I still have plenty of sanding to do if it can be saved. 

For a couple of the pics, I squirted some MS to bring out the grain.

Thanks Mike for the tutorial! In spite of my screw-up, it went pretty easy thanks to your tips.

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## Kevin (Aug 12, 2012)

Hang in there you'll be making improvements every time you build. As you discovered once you cut the cove you remove most of the splines. One way to get the length the same every time is to measure over a predetermined amount before you cut the cove. The splines will look entirely too long until you remove the cove but you know that now, and can compensate. 

Another thing to do to set your apart from most others out there is to buy a blade with only flat ground teeth. You would use it only for touch up after you cut the splines with your regular blade. This is if you'll be doing a lot of these. For an occasional box you can use a small flat wood file to grind those annoying kerf angles flat. It makes a big difference in aesthetics. Those kerf angles make me cringe and they are so easy to eliminate. 

I think you did a fine job for your first effort don't stop now, make another one while it's fresh in your head and you can make these and other improvements.


[attachment=9112]


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## DKMD (Aug 12, 2012)

That's cool! Moving the splines further apart would also allow you to keep some length on them. Too bad about the 'oops' spot... I'd make that the back of the box! :dunno:


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## Kevin (Aug 12, 2012)

DKMD said:


> Moving the splines further apart would also allow you to keep some length on them.



Yes it would good point. I think he was trying to space them the same distance from each other and the top and bottom roughly like a 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 but it should be 25% 50% 25% I think is a better balance what do you think?


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## Mike1950 (Aug 12, 2012)

Figure out how to make mistake a design feature. I have to confess I used two boards to demonstrate safety.- normally I only use the upper board and keep peice tight against it. My guess is you were taking too large of a cut each time and the blade wants to take it with it when this happens. Small cuts 1/16 or less are better. Looks great for first attempt. Dkmd is right spread the splines and you won't lose so much of them. If you make them as large as Kevin pictures you will have to deal with them on the inside of the box. My boxes at their thinest spot are less then 1/4 inch. Thanks for showing it- nice to know some one is learning from thread and you are!!!!!


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## DKMD (Aug 12, 2012)

Kevin said:


> DKMD said:
> 
> 
> > Moving the splines further apart would also allow you to keep some length on them.
> ...



I'd probably try to replicate the wall thickness in the distance from the top and bottom(ie. 1/2" thick walls would have splines 1/2" from top and bottom)... I'm not sure how that would look, but that's where I'd start. Seems like I read somewhere that replicating spacing was a good trick when designing stuff. I've only made a few lidded boxes away from the lathe, and none were as nice as the one Spa has shown, so my opinion is completely baseless.


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## woodtickgreg (Aug 12, 2012)

That gash can be repaired almost invisibly. Rip a piece of scrap wood a hair wider than the width of the kerf of the mistake. Then hand file and sand by hand till it fits snuggly. It should stand proud of the project, then glue and clamp till dry. then sand flush. Fine wood working magazine has a article on fixing oopses this edition that may give you some other ideas on how to repair. A friend once told me, anyone can work wood but a craftsman can hide his mistakes!


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## Kevin (Aug 12, 2012)

Mike1950 said:


> If you make them as large as Kevin pictures you will have to deal with them on the inside of the box.



Not really, the splines' height should not be greater than the material plus however proud you want them on the outside before trimming and sanding. Using 1" as an example - of course I cannot draw to scale so they may look too big, but what he ended up with is far too little spline showing. 

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## Mike1950 (Aug 12, 2012)

Kevin- haveing had many a spline disappear with this design I can almost tell you how much spline you will have left before you start. Splines that far into cove end up being small or going to inside of box- try it you will see. If you notice my splines are in flat at bottom and at the bottom of thick point at top. There is a reason for this.


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## Kevin (Aug 12, 2012)

I've installed thousands of splines in projects and in testing new ideas literally (well when you manufacture a spline making jig you're sort of obligated  ) but I have never combined splines in a coved box like that so I need to play around with that obviously. Thanks for the info.


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## Mike1950 (Aug 12, 2012)

Kevin said:


> I've installed thousands of splines in projects and in testing new ideas literally (well when you manufacture a spline making jig you're sort of obligated  ) but I have never combined splines in a coved box like that so I need to play around with that obviously. Thanks for the info.



Kevin- last picture I just posted in my build really tells the story- splines are close to maxed out but do not go to inside- Look at bottom full spline and look at top one- cove eats spline much faster then at least I perceived when I started-I ended up splinless.


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## Spa City Woodworks (Aug 12, 2012)

Kevin said:


> Hang in there you'll be making improvements every time you build. As you discovered once you cut the cove you remove most of the splines. One way to get the length the same every time is to measure over a predetermined amount before you cut the cove. The splines will look entirely too long until you remove the cove but you know that now, and can compensate.
> 
> Another thing to do to set your apart from most others out there is to buy a blade with only flat ground teeth. You would use it only for touch up after you cut the splines with your regular blade. This is if you'll be doing a lot of these. For an occasional box you can use a small flat wood file to grind those annoying kerf angles flat. It makes a big difference in aesthetics. Those kerf angles make me cringe and they are so easy to eliminate.
> 
> I think you did a fine job for your first effort don't stop now, make another one while it's fresh in your head and you can make these and other improvements.



You're right. I divided the splines 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 but I see now that the cove cutting will cut the length of the splines greatly. I'll try your 25/50/25 rule and see how it turns out on future boxes. I also saw the effect of angle cut kerf on the saw blades... really makes a big difference on the finished product. I doubt I'll do production runs of boxes so the flat rasp souns like the best solution.


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## woodtickgreg (Aug 12, 2012)

Kevin said:


> I've installed thousands of splines in projects and in testing new ideas literally (well when you manufacture a spline making jig you're sort of obligated  ) but I have never combined splines in a coved box like that so I need to play around with that obviously. Thanks for the info.


I just realized I don't know if I have ever seen your jigs (not the irish kind:irishjig:) Have you ever posted them on the barter?


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## Spa City Woodworks (Aug 12, 2012)

Mike1950 said:


> Figure out how to make mistake a design feature. I have to confess I used two boards to demonstrate safety.- normally I only use the upper board and keep peice tight against it. My guess is you were taking too large of a cut each time and the blade wants to take it with it when this happens. Small cuts 1/16 or less are better. Looks great for first attempt. Dkmd is right spread the splines and you won't lose so much of them. If you make them as large as Kevin pictures you will have to deal with them on the inside of the box. My boxes at their thinest spot are less then 1/4 inch. Thanks for showing it- nice to know some one is learning from thread and you are!!!!!



You're probably right Mike. I'm not sure how much material I was taking off on each pass, but it was probably more than 1/16". 

I couldn't have gone much deeper with the splines without them protruding from the inside of the box. As is, they are about 1/8" from the inside corner. My mistake, I see now, was positioning them so close to the center and losing them from the cove cut. I'll follow DKMD's tip and spread them out more on the next one.


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## Kevin (Aug 12, 2012)

Spa City Woodworks said:


> You're right. I divided the splines 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 but I see now that the cove cutting will cut the length of the splines greatly. I'll try your 25/50/25 rule and see how it turns out on future boxes. I also saw the effect of angle cut kerf on the saw blades... really makes a big difference on the finished product. I doubt I'll do production runs of boxes so the flat rasp souns like the best solution.



I think you should look at Mike's boxes and put them outside the cove or at least on the far sides of the coves almost out of them. Look at his box thread you can see what I mean. 

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## Kevin (Aug 12, 2012)

woodtickgreg said:


> I just realized I don't know if I have ever seen your jigs (not the irish kind:irishjig:) Have you ever posted them on the barter?



I don't promote it here (or anywhere really). I might one day but right now I'm enjoying not having to fill orders. 

:lolol:


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## Spa City Woodworks (Aug 12, 2012)

woodtickgreg said:


> That gash can be repaired almost invisibly. Rip a piece of scrap wood a hair wider than the width of the kerf of the mistake. Then hand file and sand by hand till it fits snuggly. It should stand proud of the project, then glue and clamp till dry. then sand flush. Fine wood working magazine has a article on fixing oopses this edition that may give you some other ideas on how to repair. A friend once told me, anyone can work wood but a craftsman can hide his mistakes!



I like it!!!!! Good tip. That's the direction I'm leaning right now to repair it. I'll post pics when I do.


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## woodtickgreg (Aug 12, 2012)

Kevin said:


> woodtickgreg said:
> 
> 
> > I just realized I don't know if I have ever seen your jigs (not the irish kind:irishjig:) Have you ever posted them on the barter?
> ...


Well for what it's worth, I'd like to see em one day.


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## Mike1950 (Aug 12, 2012)

Kevin said:


> Spa City Woodworks said:
> 
> 
> > You're right. I divided the splines 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 but I see now that the cove cutting will cut the length of the splines greatly. I'll try your 25/50/25 rule and see how it turns out on future boxes. I also saw the effect of angle cut kerf on the saw blades... really makes a big difference on the finished product. I doubt I'll do production runs of boxes so the flat rasp souns like the best solution.
> ...



Yes and if you look at the persimmon one the spline is a little lower, cove is the same- look how much smaller it got. Also do not let the spline be at the point just above where they are-very weak and it will break :dash2::dash2:- learned that the hard way also. I use a ROS to sand the cove- just keep it moving and it works out great. I do the bottom all the way around and then the top. When done sanding I mineral spirit it hold it up to light running down it and go back and sand again- not an easy shape to sand. I love your choice of wood.


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## Spa City Woodworks (Aug 12, 2012)

Mike1950 said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> > Spa City Woodworks said:
> ...



I've got more of this Afzelia. I plan to grab a few pcs... enough for a FRB and post them on here for trade. I'll try and get this done this week.


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## Mike1950 (Aug 13, 2012)

rbaccus said:


> Mike1950 said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin- haveing had many a spline disappear with this design I can almost tell you how much spline you will have left before you start. Splines that far into cove end up being small or going to inside of box- try it you will see. If you notice my splines are in flat at bottom and at the bottom of thick point at top. There is a reason for this.
> ...



Stones-Thought the same until I tried. If you take 1/16 or less each pass it is easy and quite safe-especially with a box. Your hands are a long ways from blade.


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## woodtickgreg (Aug 13, 2012)

Mike1950 said:


> rbaccus said:
> 
> 
> > On a few i put in too deep splines and used them to hold a setin drawer whatever you call that.


That's actually a cool design feature! I would never admit that it was a mistake. lol Actually if I ever make one I might try just that very thing on purpose and say a clever cajun friend of mine showed me how to do that. ha ha


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## Spa City Woodworks (Aug 13, 2012)

Got home from work a bit early and the temp isn't too bad in the shop.... and this boo-boo has been bugging me all day. 

I cut a small piece from another board with similar color although the grain was hard to match. Not too bad I think. A little sawdust and glue will take care of the hairline crack. 

Now on to routing the corners and feet, building a lid, and sanding. ughhh, my least favorite part. 

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## woodtickgreg (Aug 13, 2012)

Good job on the repair! Like someone else said put in in the back and I bet no one will even notice it. A lot of my pieces have mistakes that I have repaired and I don't say anything about them and wait to see if anyone finds them, they usually don't. Good save!


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## Mike1950 (Aug 13, 2012)

I always tell about my mistakes and sometimes they make you make a project better. Looks great- HMMMM sanding-I have plenty to do on lids.:dash2::dash2:


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## Spa City Woodworks (Aug 27, 2012)

This project was put on the back burner for a couple weeks. Got out in the shop this weekend and got the feet cut. I'll probably start on the top this weekend.
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## Mike1950 (Aug 27, 2012)

Looks very nice- I like the form this one has.


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## Spa City Woodworks (Aug 27, 2012)

Mike1950 said:


> Looks very nice- I like the form this one has.



Thanks! I need to start looking for hardware. I looked at Lowes this weekend but didn't like anything I saw. Where do you get your hardware for your boxes?


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## Mike1950 (Aug 27, 2012)

I buy the hinges on EBAY -that hinge is cheap and requires no mortise- no brainer hinge is my kinda hinge. Comes with the screws. No other hardware in my boxes.


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## Spa City Woodworks (Sep 5, 2012)

Worked on a lid today... Not too happy with the result. It looks like a cabinet door sitting on top of the box. Not too sure if I'll leave it as is or perhaps do another lid. I'll mull it over the next few days and decide...

[attachment=10238][attachment=10239]


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## Mike1950 (Sep 5, 2012)

Dwain, beautiful wood and I like the lid. Turned out very nice. Yours is and inny and mine are outies. VERY nice box........


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## Spa City Woodworks (Sep 5, 2012)

Thanks Mike. I'd put off working on the lid until I could devote some time to working on the lap joint for the lid. Not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. It's hard to tell from the bead routed along the edge but it is a lap/bridal joint.


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 5, 2012)

The center panel of the lid is a great piece of wood  I think the frame looks too wide. maybe try a wide ogee router bit to make it apeer thinner. Like a raised panel bit but on the top outside edge of the lid. The curves of the ogee would compliment the cove of the side of the box. imo the wide flat frame of the lid just doesn't work with the cove. Just an idea Test a couple of bits on scrap of the same width.


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## Mike1950 (Sep 6, 2012)

woodtickgreg said:


> The center panel of the lid is a great piece of wood  I think the frame looks too wide. maybe try a wide ogee router bit to make it apeer thinner. Like a raised panel bit but on the top outside edge of the lid. The curves of the ogee would compliment the cove of the side of the box. imo the wide flat frame of the lid just doesn't work with the cove. Just an idea Test a couple of bits on scrap of the same width.



Great Idea Greg-BUT before you start cutting-make sure you have enough wood for hinge screws. I use 1/2 for lids and with the rounded edge my screws barely make it.

Dwain, bridal joint looks great. I should have shown more about joint-it is about the set up. Actually quite easy.


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## Spa City Woodworks (Sep 6, 2012)

Greg, I couldn't quite put my finger on it... but you're right. The wood on the outer edge of the lid is too wide. I think I'll re-purpose this lid for another box after I cut the rails down a bit. Make the next box fit the lid - so to speak.


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