# End grain tear out



## Bean_counter (May 4, 2018)

I’m making a Spalted flame box elder bowl and I’m lost with the tear out I’m getting. I’m using super sharp tools and have tried sanding sealer then scraper still have the tear out. I’ve tried sanding sealer and then 80 grit, still tear out. I’ve tried sanding sealer then 120 grit and STILL tear out. So my question is “will I ever be able to get rid of it?” or is this the nature of the wood. I’m sick of sanding and not getting anywhere. Pics below is the end grain tear out I’m getting both inside and outside of the bowl.


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## Mike1950 (May 4, 2018)

not a turner- ha-as if I have to state that. But looks like it might be a little over the edge- Box elder is crap wood as far as softness and tearout and iif it is a bit overdone-punky it is impossible..

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Great Post 1


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## Bean_counter (May 4, 2018)

Mike1950 said:


> not a turner- ha-as if I have to state that. But looks like it might be a little over the edge- Box elder is crap wood as far as softness and tearout and iif it is a bit overdone-punky it is impossible..


Mike what do you mean a little over the edge?

It’s not punky but sure is soft

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike1950 (May 4, 2018)

before it gets punky it gets very weird- running thru planer or I really notice it -mostly because I cut so much of it on the bandsaw.

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## Chris Geeo (May 4, 2018)

Box elder is, to me, one of the worst for end grain tear out. It's so soft to begin with it takes super light passes with a very keen edge and the right angles. Making sure to lay down the grain (if possible) and not lift up the edge. Some call it cutting down the grain. Almost impossible on end grain though. One thing I've used in the past to help with end grains is to get some minwax wood hardener and be liberal on the end grains. Let it dry good and do the very light passes holding your handle of a bowl gouge way down low (almost like you would skew on a spindal) to make it slice instead of chop on the final shaping. Hope this helped

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## Bean_counter (May 4, 2018)

Chris Geeo said:


> Box elder is, to me, one of the worst for end grain tear out. It's so soft to begin with it takes super light passes with a very keen edge and the right angles. Making sure to lay down the grain (if possible) and not lift up the edge. Some call it cutting down the grain. Almost impossible on end grain though. One thing I've used in the past to help with end grains is to get some minwax wood hardener and be liberal on the end grains. Let it dry good and do the very light passes holding your handle of a bowl gouge way down low (almost like you would skew on a spindal) to make it slice instead of chop on the final shaping. Hope this helped


Thanks Chris that all makes sense. I think I might just put it away for now or throw in the burn pile. Beyond frustrated with it now. Does the wood hardener work better than sanding sealer?


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## Chris Geeo (May 4, 2018)

Bean_counter said:


> Thanks Chris that all makes sense. I think I might just put it away for now or throw in the burn pile. Beyond frustrated with it now. Does the wood hardener work better than sanding sealer?



In my opinion is seems to soak in more than sanding sealer. Similar but, not a thorough as stabilizing under vacuum.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Chris Geeo (May 4, 2018)

Put a good wet coat on it and let it sit for a couple days and dry. There are no failed projects on a lathe. Just opportunities for a redesign

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## Mike1950 (May 4, 2018)

I use cheap thin CA glue

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## Schroedc (May 4, 2018)

Do you have an EWT round carbide it similar tool? I found hitting it with wood hardener or poly or whatever your finish is going to be, cranking speed way up and taking ultra light passes with a fresh cutter will get the job done...

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Schroedc (May 4, 2018)

The bowl in my profile pic was that way


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## Bean_counter (May 4, 2018)

Schroedc said:


> Do you have an EWT round carbide it similar tool? I found hitting it with wood hardener or poly or whatever your finish is going to be, cranking speed way up and taking ultra light passes with a fresh cutter will get the job done...


I do Colin. Looks like I might hit up the orange box this weekend for some hardener.

Reactions: Like 1


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## gman2431 (May 4, 2018)

Crank up speed if possible. If ya dont wanna harden the wood loosen it... Some water will help ya a ton.


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## Bean_counter (May 4, 2018)

gman2431 said:


> Crank up speed if possible. If ya dont wanna harden the wood loosen it... Some water will help ya a ton.



Please elaborate on using water Cody.... never heard of that

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## Karl_TN (May 4, 2018)

Bean_counter said:


> Please elaborate on using water Cody.... never heard of that



I recently had similar problems turning a very large hackberry bowl that wanted to tear out badly. What saved this bowl was using a spray bottle of water & small amount of dish soap to act as a lubricant. Sorry, I can't recall how much soap I used, but it wasn't much. I've also spritzed bowls with a little DNA right before cutting when I didn't want to use water.

Btw, I've also hardened bowls using brushing lacquer that's been thinned down with lacquer thinner 50/50. Apply liberally so it soaks in, but do this outside because the fumes are almost as bad as CA glue.

Tear out aside, your bowl has a nice form. It'll be worth the effort to save the bowl even if you have to add some texturing and milk paint to the outside.

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## Schroedc (May 4, 2018)

When I'm making salad bowls that are going to get an oil finish, I'll wipe them down with the mineral oil I use before I take my final cuts, same idea, high speed, very light cuts.

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## Mike Mills (May 5, 2018)

Using the scraper flat will normally do that on end grain. You can use a bowl gouge in a sheer position or use a scraper to sheer. The cutting edge of either will contact the wood about the same but I find the scraper with the handle near the waist a lot easier than a bowl gouge with the handle pointed toward the knees.
I normally use thinned shellac (2 parts DNA and 1 part shellac from the can) to handen the fibers. You may have to apply, dry, cut several times but the wash dries quickly.
The scraper should have a very small burr about like your cabinet scraper in flat work. Some folks even use a cabinet scraper. Cuts are very light.
Here is a pretty good video by Brian Havens on sheer scraping.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2


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## gman2431 (May 5, 2018)

Pretty much what Karl said. Sorry didnt get an alert for this for some reason. The touch of soap really helps! I know a guy who runs stuff outta his planer for bar tops that look amazing with this method. He used a lot of white pine and so forth so tearout can be horrid .


Bean_counter said:


> Please elaborate on using water Cody.... never heard of that


.


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## woodtickgreg (May 6, 2018)

If you can't defeat the tear out then accent it. Maybe hit it with a dye like red and then lightly sand the dye away on the hardwood portion leaving the dye in the softer tear out portion. Is that from the wood you got from me?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Bean_counter (May 6, 2018)

woodtickgreg said:


> If you can't defeat the tear out then accent it. Maybe hit it with a dye like red and then lightly sand the dye away on the hardwood portion leaving the dye in the softer tear out portion. Is that from the wood you got from me?


Greg thank i bought it on eBay. I ended up putting wood hardener on it and the damn thing cracked. It flew across the shop after that haha. I think it wasn’t dry

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## Robert Baccus (May 8, 2018)

All the above ideas work some of the time. Last resort is to use poly or epoxy resin thinnned down till it drips off a stick. Bag you piece and resin mix in a VINYL bag and play shake and bake several times in a day, OOPs - forgot the mention the thinner to use is acetone. Done it many times--an old boat trick.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## AgainstThe Grain (May 8, 2018)

There are plenty of good tips to help stabilize the wood; I typically use rattle can shellac. The "go-to" cut for me is a shear cut (not scrape) with a freshly sharpened & honed 3/8 inch bowl gouge. A couple light passes. As punky as your sample looks, I would finish it with a good gloss lacquer sanding it back until what open grain is left is filled and you get a flat smooth surface.

Remember, we are most often our own worst critics.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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