# Anyone ever turn any palm?



## barry richardson (Nov 4, 2017)

So I drug home a palm stump a while ago, and decided to give a go at turning some, looks like it could be cool. It has roots attached, which I plan to make the main feature on top. Still pretty wet so it will be a while till it dries I think. Drilled a hole a ways down the middle to speed up the drying. Not sure how I will go about turning it, but I will have to stabilize it somehow, with poly, bartop or something, looking for tips.... the blank is about 8x10. left a lot of extra material on the bottom to glue and screw a chucking block...

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## Sprung (Nov 4, 2017)

Barry, if it survives everything, I think it will look great when finished!



barry richardson said:


> I will have to stabilize it somehow



I can do up to 6" diameter in my 24" tall chamber, but Colin had a piece of acrylic, I think about 12" diameter, that he was going to make into a large stabilizing chamber.

@Schroedc - Colin, you got your giant stabilizing chamber up and going?


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## rocky1 (Nov 4, 2017)

@Spinartist - Would probably be your man Barry. I think Lee has tried to turn about every palm known to man. 

My pot's big enough, but I don't have anything I could cook it in.

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## Lou Currier (Nov 5, 2017)

I have only turned small pieces and I soak it in min wax wood hardener for several weeks and I still get chip out. Have to go with light cuts and sharp tools. @Spinartist has turned bigger pieces with good success.


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## gman2431 (Nov 5, 2017)

I've stabilized the black palm ive turned and love the way it looks. End grain is super cool looking like a handful of straws. 

It is very chippy tho so I wonder if wet turning it might help?


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## barry richardson (Nov 5, 2017)

Thanks Guys, Stabilizing in a chamber sounds great but I dont have the chamber, and don't want to invest in having someone else do it either. But on that note, I just saw in the new Packard catalog that they sell "stabilizing bags" for stabilizing large and irregular pieces, which intrigues me... It would take a whole lot of juice in a chamber. I'm going to make this an experimental piece, try to stabilize and turn it on the cheap. Casting it I think would be the ticket, I'm thinking of doing it, sort of, by soaking it with bartop at multiple phases during the turning phase.

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## barry richardson (Nov 5, 2017)

gman2431 said:


> I've stabilized the black palm ive turned and love the way it looks. End grain is super cool looking like a handful of straws.
> 
> It is very chippy tho so I wonder if wet turning it might help?


Hmm, that's something to consider...... It would be great if I could rough turn it somewhat so it can finish drying faster, and take less material to stabilize, will have to think about that....

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## Lou Currier (Nov 5, 2017)




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## Spinartist (Nov 7, 2017)

Palm is one of the worst things to turn on a lathe. It contains mucho silica, which is basically sand or glass. Most will dull your good quality turning tools in about 29 seconds. REALLY!!
It cracks, splits, the lighter colored areas tears out badly.
The dark colored fibers pop out leaving a long "trough". I fill these with another long fiber or use a black marker (on black fiber palms) to darken the trough the fill with c/a glue. When finish is applied palm soaks up a lot & can expand. This is a problem if you have other wood glued to it such as a rim. I apply a couple coats of finish to palm before I glue other wood to it.

Palm dries very quickly. Drilling the hole to help drying was a very smart move. You are using the root ball & you mentioned it was wet.
Be prepared for some of the root fingers to work themselves outward as they dry.

If (when) the palm discolors dark (& ugly), bleach it using regular household bleach & the lighter colored areas (before darkening) will become very light. I've dyed palm after bleaching with dramatic results! The bleach will not affect the darker fibers.

I've not turned stabilized palm yet and I imagine it would be much nicer to work on. You will still need to sharpen your tools a lot!!
I use c/a glue the stabilize the end grain when I turn palm side grain.
Remember -only 30 seconds of good HSS turning tool sharpness & the part of the tool edge you're using is gone!


For me, making art pieces from palm is worth it because its so striking looking when done.
New, novice & many intermediate woodturners will be defeated by palm because it is so very difficult to work with!

Please post up picts as you progress!!!

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## Spinartist (Nov 7, 2017)

Carpenteria palm. Black fibers. Side grain, 2 1/4" diameter. Threaded Ebony finial. AAW symposium in Phoenix, Az. 2014

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## gman2431 (Nov 7, 2017)

@Spinartist do you have any black palm cut end grain or on a 45 for call size blanks? Really looking to stabilize some so it shows the "straws" instead of a normal length wise cut that really doesn't.

Beautiful piece also! The side showing end grain is super cool!


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## Spinartist (Nov 7, 2017)

gman2431 said:


> @Spinartist do you have any black palm cut end grain or on a 45 for call size blanks? Really looking to stabilize some so it shows the "straws" instead of a normal length wise cut that really doesn't.
> 
> Beautiful piece also! The side showing end grain is super cool!




"Black palm" is a palm that doesn't grow here in South Florida. We do have several palms with black fibers which are nicer than Black Palm & two with burgundy fibers.
I'll check my secret stash & see. I may have a couple. 1 1/2" sq. x 5 1/4" size right?? 

I've done several pens on a 45* bias. Failure rate is about 60% on palm cut on a bias for someone even as good as I am.
Stabilizing would probly help a lot!! 

If I have some I'll start another thread so we don't continue hijacking Barry's thread!! We know how that's not Kosher here on Wood Barter!

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## gman2431 (Nov 7, 2017)

I will take as big as ya got then can cut down to size of it helps. I like to finish at 1.5 after a little stabilization and the sanding afterword. I can even stab some and send back for ya to try, it turns way nicer than my previous expereince where it wasn't. Lol


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## JR Parks (Nov 7, 2017)

I have had 100% success on turning pens from stabilized black palm. Slow and easy - sharpen as you need. I think I had a few tear outs - small and ca filled with no problems or tell tales.


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## barry richardson (Nov 8, 2017)

Spinartist said:


> Carpenteria palm. Black fibers. Side grain, 2 1/4" diameter. Threaded Ebony finial. AAW symposium in Phoenix, Az. 2014
> 
> View attachment 136794


Sweet! Were you at the symposium in Phoenix?


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## barry richardson (Nov 8, 2017)

Thanks for the great tips @Spinartist . I started to do some turning on the chunk the other day, and I see what you mean about dulling edges. I think this is Mexican Palm, not very interesting really, but the pattern the roots make should be pretty cool. I'm at a point now where I want it to dry some, then soak at least the root portion with resin before I proceed....

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## Lou Currier (Nov 8, 2017)




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## Spinartist (Nov 8, 2017)

barry richardson said:


> Sweet! Were you at the symposium in Phoenix?




Yes. I demonstrated there!


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## barry richardson (Nov 8, 2017)

Spinartist said:


> Yes. I demonstrated there!


We passed like ships in the night lol....


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## Spinartist (Nov 9, 2017)

barry richardson said:


> We passed like ships in the night lol....




I must come back to visit when it's not 107* during the day!

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## Spinartist (Nov 9, 2017)

gman2431 said:


> I will take as big as ya got then can cut down to size of it helps. I like to finish at 1.5 after a little stabilization and the sanding afterword. I can even stab some and send back for ya to try, it turns way nicer than my previous expereince where it wasn't. Lol




Found a piece that may yield 2 blanks. I might not want to part with it!! Will look more in week or so. Very busy.

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## gman2431 (Nov 9, 2017)

Spinartist said:


> Found a piece that may yield 2 blanks. I might not want to part with it!! Will look more in week or so. Very busy.



No rush and I appreciate ya look in!


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## Strider (Nov 10, 2017)

Nice figures...looks like it will splinter and explode!


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## Robert Baccus (Nov 12, 2017)

As you know there are many, many species of palm. The only two I've heard of being turned are redpalm and black palm. Good black palm is like turning rosewood--very hard, heavy and black. I did a large SW red palm vase with great results recently. I very roughly turned the outside. I stabilized it like I do all my spalt--Mix polyester resin(fiberglass resin) thin--so it drips of a stick--Toss it and your piece in a black vinyl yard bag and play shake and bake hourly. Next day it's hard, ugly but hard. Mount and rough hollow as you will. Do the same on the inside. now turn and finish on the lathe. Piece of cake. The wood will be as stable as mahogany and turn like it. The thin resin will penetrate soft palms and spalted wood like crazy and form a matrix that is strong.

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## Lou Currier (Nov 12, 2017)

Robert Baccus said:


> As you know there are many, many species of palm. The only two I've heard of being turned are redpalm and black palm. Good black palm is like turning rosewood--very hard, heavy and black. I did a large SW red palm vase with great results recently. I very roughly turned the outside. I stabilized it like I do all my spalt--Mix polyester resin(fiberglass resin) thin--so it drips of a stick--Toss it and your piece in a black vinyl yard bag and play shake and bake hourly. Next day it's hard, ugly but hard. Mount and rough hollow as you will. Do the same on the inside. now turn and finish on the lathe. Piece of cake. The wood will be as stable as mahogany and turn like it. The thin resin will penetrate soft palms and spalted wood like crazy and form a matrix that is strong.



You can't tease us like that without any s

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## Ken Martin (Nov 12, 2017)

Enlighten me.. I have been told that Palm is actually in the grass family, thus explaining its “bundle” grain patterns. 
Any truth to this?


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## barry richardson (Nov 13, 2017)

Robert Baccus said:


> As you know there are many, many species of palm. The only two I've heard of being turned are redpalm and black palm. Good black palm is like turning rosewood--very hard, heavy and black. I did a large SW red palm vase with great results recently. I very roughly turned the outside. I stabilized it like I do all my spalt--Mix polyester resin(fiberglass resin) thin--so it drips of a stick--Toss it and your piece in a black vinyl yard bag and play shake and bake hourly. Next day it's hard, ugly but hard. Mount and rough hollow as you will. Do the same on the inside. now turn and finish on the lathe. Piece of cake. The wood will be as stable as mahogany and turn like it. The thin resin will penetrate soft palms and spalted wood like crazy and form a matrix that is strong.


Thanks Robert, now you can say you have heard of Mexican palm being turned. Thanks for your input. I plan to stabilize it pretty much as you describe using resin (not sure about the shake and bake in a bag though) that resin you used must have been very slow setting, if it was still fluid over multiple hours..... got any pics of your finished piece?


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## Tim Carter (Nov 13, 2017)

There are a number of palms in S. Florida that I've turned-Alexander palm, Sabal palm and Royal palm. All 3 have the punky interior that makes turning them such a challenge. The resin method of stabilizing sounds interesting, can you provide more details and measurements?


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## barry richardson (Nov 13, 2017)

Tim Carter said:


> There are a number of palms in S. Florida that I've turned-Alexander palm, Sabal palm and Royal palm. All 3 have the punky interior that makes turning them such a challenge. The resin method of stabilizing sounds interesting, can you provide more details and measurements?


If your asking me Tim, I don't yet have a method, put I plan on trying to figure one out shortly when I turn the piece of palm pictured at the start....


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## Robert Baccus (Nov 14, 2017)

Palms are not in the grass family--they are extremely ancient--only the second plant to produce seeds after cicads, their ancestor. The shake and bake is esential to get epoxy on every surface. When the resin is thinned by acetone it takes overnite to set up so ollows plenty of time to soak in. Works very well on very soft punky spalt as well. It will look like hell on the outside but the wood does not change color or texture due to the fact that is soaks only into the fibers and does not fill the cells. ------------Tim, I used red palm which is more stable/solid than most other palms--the others I haven't tried because they are so spongy inside but this might work. What details migh you want--there ain't no recipe for this, I just dreamed it up after doing fiberglass work on boats for years. The punky woodtechnique I used on sailboat punky wood for years.

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## barry richardson (Dec 13, 2017)

Continuing on with my palm experiment, after turning to the general shape and drying for a while, I had a partial bartop kit I used tinted black to fill in the roots (lots of space and voids there) and firm the piece up in general. This was necessary also to bond the roots for hollowing, otherwise it would have fell apart.



Turned away most of the black bartop, and hollowed the inside, applied another coat of clear bartop, and turned it again. Then it was many coats of poly. Has a few pinholes from bubbles, filled, most but got tired of messing with it. Added an ABW collar, finishing this set me back a while as the poly took a long time to cure on the ABW, yesterday I final sanded it and rubbed it out up through the grits of micromesh, then buffed. I'm happy with my first attempt, learned a lot and will do some things differently next time, if a piece like this ever comes along again. Thanks for all the advise given here. It's about 6.5x6.5"

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## rocky1 (Dec 13, 2017)

Damn that is sweet! Very nicely done!!

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## duncsuss (Dec 13, 2017)

@rocky1 took the words right off my fingertips. This has serious WOW factor.

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## jasonb (Dec 13, 2017)

Double WOW!

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## Bigdrowdy1 (Dec 13, 2017)

& & and I say it tooo!



Rodney

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## Ken Martin (Dec 13, 2017)

Worth the trouble!!! Great job!!!

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## DKMD (Dec 13, 2017)

That’s a sexy looking HF!

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## Eric Rorabaugh (Dec 13, 2017)

That is cool. I love the look of it. GREAT JOB Barry!!!

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## gman2431 (Dec 13, 2017)

Off the charts man!

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## Robert Baccus (Dec 13, 2017)

Really great piece--a knock-out for sure yeah. Next time try thinned polyester resin--cheaper and does penetrate whereas thick resins does not.

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## ClintW (Dec 13, 2017)

Very cool! I love the two tone look! I may have to talk my brother in San Diego into finding some pices like that some day!

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## vegas urban lumber (Dec 13, 2017)

i just picked up a palm the other day. i'm cutting a blank to match what was done here. i'll post the blank when i get it cleaned up.

by the way barry that piece is awesome, and ever since you started this thread i've been looking for palm bases. the one i'm cutting now i actually stopped and helped a guy pull it out with my 4x4, just so i could have it.

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## The100road (Dec 13, 2017)

Very cool Barry. Looks awesome.

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## Sprung (Dec 14, 2017)

That's a knock out, Barry!

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## barry richardson (Dec 14, 2017)

vegas urban lumber said:


> i just picked up a palm the other day. i'm cutting a blank to match what was done here. i'll post the blank when i get it cleaned up.
> 
> by the way barry that piece is awesome, and ever since you started this thread i've been looking for palm bases. the one i'm cutting now i actually stopped and helped a guy pull it out with my 4x4, just so i could have it.


Thanks Trev, I have started keeping my eye out for it too, lots of cut-up palm at the dump I go too, but so far it's been hard to find pieces with roots attached in good shape.... I think the root material would be great for casters......


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## duncsuss (Dec 14, 2017)

I keep coming back to look at this. Still got massive amounts of WOW.

I'm going to share a link to it with a friend who is a potter -- I've seen pottery with glazes which are similar, but not identical. He might take it as a challenge, but really I'm just showing off your superb work

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## barry richardson (Dec 14, 2017)

Thanks Duncan, I think I might know what kind of finish you're talking about, where they use multiple coats of automotive finish?


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## phinds (Dec 14, 2017)

barry richardson said:


> Added an ABW collar, finishing this set me back a while as the poly took a long time to cure on the ABW


Gorgeous result Barry. Just FYI, any time you think poly might be problematic (e.g. ABW, olive, cocobolo, etc) just start w/ a couple of coats of dewaxed shellac and you'll have no problem / no wait.


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## duncsuss (Dec 14, 2017)

barry richardson said:


> Thanks Duncan, I think I might know what kind of finish you're talking about, where they use multiple coats of automotive finish?


The one I was thinking of looked very much like this. According to the maker's blog, it is:

25% Magnesium Carbonate
70% Nepheline Syenite
5% Kentucky Ball Clay

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