# From garage to shop



## kweinert (Aug 29, 2016)

So, after many trials and tribulations we're in the new house.

I plan on posting the conversion of the garage into a shop, but it's going to be a slow process. First we have get approval from the HOA for our shed so we can offload stuff there to make room. Then I'll build a wall to separate the two car from the single car part. Then I need to sort out a design.

Here, however, is day 0 of the new shop.









The space is about 18 1/2 ft square. I plan on building a small platform in front of the door that extends to the nearest wall and tieing into the washer on the other side to put a sink in the shop.

Also repurposing the 50 amp breaker that was used for the hot tub to put in a subpanel for the shop.

I'll update as changes happen, but it won't be an active thread for a while.

Reactions: Like 7 | EyeCandy! 1 | Way Cool 4 | +Karma 1


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## Mike1950 (Aug 29, 2016)

Cleanest it will ever be! Congrats on clean new shop

Reactions: Agree 6


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## woodtickgreg (Aug 29, 2016)

I remember my day 1, congrats Ken!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## rocky1 (Aug 29, 2016)

Paint the walls before you set anything in there! It'll brighten your shop up a great deal, and you won't have to move anything to do it. 

Don't ask me how I know these thing... 

Congrats on finally getting in the new house Ken!!

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## Nature Man (Aug 29, 2016)

Congrats! Subscribed. Chuck


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## ripjack13 (Aug 29, 2016)

HOA...oh man. Good luck with them.

CONGRATULATIONS ON THE NEW HOME/SHOP!!!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Wildthings (Aug 30, 2016)

I'm watching with great interest!!


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## Don Ratcliff (Aug 30, 2016)

Finally, that's great news on getting the house and the shop. 

I was thinking, if the hoa won't let you have whatever whatever, I am here to store all of your bestest woods in my shop. After all, they are already packed up... there will be only a teeny tiny fee blah blah not even worth mentioning... 

BTW, who is the president of your hoa? I have pull with these people ya know. I can help out.. trust me...

Reactions: Funny 4


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## kweinert (Aug 30, 2016)

Don Ratcliff said:


> Finally, that's great news on getting the house and the shop.
> 
> I was thinking, if the hoa won't let you have whatever whatever, I am here to store all of your bestest woods in my shop. After all, they are already packed up... there will be only a teeny tiny fee blah blah not even worth mentioning...
> 
> BTW, who is the president of your hoa? I have pull with these people ya know. I can help out.. trust me...



Well, I am living next door to the current VP. We'll see how that goes. I just suspect that I won't be opening the overhead door a lot.

This is almost like a Stepford neighborhood. Rarely see anyone outside. It's very quiet, seems like people go to bed around 8PM or something.

Just means that the new wall I put up will be insulated. And the door will have added insulation for both sound and temperature control.

And I should have enough room for wood storage after we get the shed put up. We can have up to 120 sq ft. So ours will be all of that :) I just know that it's going to be around a month before we can get the shed up since all the paperwork making us an official part of the neighborhood still needs to happen before we can put our plan in front of the committee.

When I put up that platform for the sink I'm planning on doing this in the space under it to give me a place for the smaller stuff.

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## Tony (Sep 2, 2016)

That's a cool cabinet idea Ken, I might have to build some too. Tony


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## kweinert (Sep 6, 2016)

Well, today we got the last of the house boxes (as far as we can tell) out of the garage. This gave me room on the single car side to unload most of the small trailer that's parked in the middle of the shop. My knee's been bothering me so my wife won't let me carry down the 5 or 6 sheets of cement board destined for the unfinished bathroom in the basement. Once that's done then I can move out the small trailer and then move the shop boxes in the two car side in to the middle so I can start with painting the walls and laying out where things will be going.

Progress is being made. It's slow, but it's progress.

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## Wildthings (Sep 6, 2016)

kweinert said:


> Well, today we got the last of the house boxes (as far as we can tell) out of the garage. This gave me room on the single car side to unload most of the small trailer that's parked in the middle of the shop. My knee's been bothering me so my wife won't let me carry down the 5 or 6 sheets of cement board destined for the unfinished bathroom in the basement. Once that's done then I can move out the small trailer and then move the shop boxes in the two car side in to the middle so I can start with painting the walls and laying out where things will be going.
> 
> Progress is being made. It's slow, but it's progress.




I feel for you brother. Just starting the same process myself!!


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 6, 2016)

Wildthings said:


> I feel for you brother. Just starting the same process myself!!


And I'm just finishing up after my move. So I feel for ya both!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sprung (Sep 6, 2016)

Very nice, Ken! Just make sure you give yourself a realistic timeline to complete getting the shop set up. 2 1/2 years since our move and my garage shop hasn't been in any functioning shape to build a single piece of furniture... Though, in the basement shop I have turned a few hundred pens and some other items in that time...


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 6, 2016)

Sprung said:


> Very nice, Ken! Just make sure you give yourself a realistic timeline to complete getting the shop set up. 2 1/2 years since our move and my garage shop hasn't been in any functioning shape to build a single piece of furniture... Though, in the basement shop I have turned a few hundred pens and some other items in that time...


About the same time line for me too. But look at it like this, 10 to 15 years in one spot acquiring tools and growing a shop, then box it all up in a hurry and move it all, it does take time to set it up, find stuff, and sort it all out. Just take your time Ken and think things through. Definitely upgrade the electrical!

Reactions: Like 2


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## ripjack13 (Sep 6, 2016)

I need motivation to move my shop into my garage too.....


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## rocky1 (Sep 6, 2016)

Dear @Mrs RipJack13 - throw Marc's tools out the back door!

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Wildthings (Sep 6, 2016)

Has anybody done or have had done the epoxy floor coverings for the shop or garage? I really like the looks of it


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 6, 2016)

Wildthings said:


> Has anybody done or have had done the epoxy floor coverings for the shop or garage? I really like the looks of it


I think they did that to my floor before I moved in, right over the tile.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ripjack13 (Sep 7, 2016)

Wildthings said:


> Has anybody done or have had done the epoxy floor coverings for the shop or garage? I really like the looks of it



I used to do it. It's messy and smelly but looks great after...

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## ripjack13 (Sep 7, 2016)

rocky1 said:


> Dear @Mrs RipJack13 - throw Marc's tools out the back door!



Spread out! Nobody touches the tools....

Reactions: Funny 1


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## rocky1 (Sep 7, 2016)

Shhhhhhhhh... I was trying to get you some help! That way they'd be half way to the garage!!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## kweinert (Sep 19, 2016)

No real progress, but the new air compressor is on the way. 

I've picked up a Black and Decker book on doing the electrical. I'm not entirely sure how much I will be doing myself, but it does have the info on planning for how many circuits you need, etc so I'm working on that planning. It'll let me know if I need to upgrade from what I have available to run out there.

If the source I used on the internet (which is *never* wrong :) I should need about a 100,000 BTU heater to keep the garage at 65 during January. January is the coldest month. The equation was (width x length x height x degrees to raise) / 1.6 and then add 10%.

((18.5 x 18.5 x 9.5 x 45) / 1.6) x 1.1 = 100,589. The average January temperate is 19 degrees. There is a factor for the quality of insulation but I'm setting that at 1 (average) since 2 walls adjoin the house and the third wall I'm building and I'll be putting insulated panels on the door. The unknown is the ceiling, but I can blow insulation in there if it's needed. I've not checked the ceiling yet.

I finally got rid of the old washer and dryer so there was room to unload the small trailer on the single car side so it's now out of the shop area. I'll be moving the boxes to the center of the space so I can get to the walls and paint them. Then it'll be time to do the electrical. I plan on two banks of florescent lights at the ceiling and more directed task lights at the tools. I need to go out and get the amps for the machines I have. I plan on the air compressor, table saw, and band saw to all have their own 220 circuits. I won't be using them all at the same time, but I don't want to be in the extension cord situation again either. The dust collector will be by itself as it will run at the same time as other tools. The lathe will probably also be on it's own - and I may wire in a 220 in the same place in case I win the lottery and can afford a big lathe some day :) Other than that it may just be outlets in convenient places for the other tools although perhaps the drum sander should be on it's own. I'd rather have too many circuits now than find after I've got it all wired up that I cut myself short.

For those of you that have done this sort of thing already does that sound like a reasonable plan? Anything I've forgotten?


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## Schroedc (Sep 19, 2016)

Wildthings said:


> Has anybody done or have had done the epoxy floor coverings for the shop or garage? I really like the looks of it



I did the Rust Oleum epoxy coating on my basement floor myself after we had a flood back in 2007 and I had to redo the entire basement. I liked the results. in the last 9 years it has gotten a bit chipped here and there from moving appliances without a cart but otherwise it has held up well.

1- Make sure your concrete is clean and free of oil. You may need to acid clean it first
2- Check for excessive moisture in the floor (There are instructions in the kit on how to do so)
3- Don't stint. If you have 1000 sqaure feet I'd buy material for 1200 or so just to make sure. It's a little added cost but better than running low and having to go thin on it
4- Use the little chip things they give you. They make a huge difference in traction. I have one little area without them and it gets slippery if there is any water spilled (It's back by the water heater in a corner and I forgot to spread them there before I painted my way to the other side)


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## Nature Man (Sep 19, 2016)

kweinert said:


> No real progress, but the new air compressor is on the way.
> 
> I've picked up a Black and Decker book on doing the electrical. I'm not entirely sure how much I will be doing myself, but it does have the info on planning for how many circuits you need, etc so I'm working on that planning. It'll let me know if I need to upgrade from what I have available to run out there.
> 
> ...


Recommend you look at the new LED lights that look like florescents. They are much brighter, they use less electricity, and they last longer. They are in our local Costco for about $30 per. Chuck

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## Schroedc (Sep 19, 2016)

They also are better for cold start, they are bright at any temp unlike fluorescent that don't like cold. Just save your receipt as most have a guarantee as to how long they last.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## rocky1 (Sep 19, 2016)

Goes unsaid, but check your local electrical code before wiring that. Since it is a garage, it may be required to be on GFI circuit. That varies by locale, but I have seen it before.

On your 220 circuit... Rather than having the plug sit there for eternity waiting for a 220 tool to plug into it. It's relatively simple to make up a short jumper using one leg of the 220 plug for your hot lead on a 110 female plug end/outlet/gang box, and simply pull your ground to the other side of the 110 circuit, leaving one leg in the 220 plug open. It will at least allow you to use it when you need an extra outlet, costs about $20 - $25 to make it up.


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 19, 2016)

Electrical plan sounds good Ken. You are at a great spot in building a shop. Put outlets everywhere, run as many different circuits as you can, put all the machines on their own circuit. A good electrical reference is time life books basic and advanced wiring, both books are written and illustrated so that it is easy to understand. I did the same thing, rand 2 banks of lights but used mostly t5 fluorescents since my shop is in the basement and I got a good deal on them brand new. I pulled over 700' of wire, all 12/2 gauge. I used plugs for the lights in case I ever want to replace them or move them, that's easier if they are not hardwired.


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## NeilYeag (Sep 20, 2016)

Ah, Nice Blank Canvas. Great place to start and fill it up...


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## kweinert (Sep 20, 2016)

Nature Man said:


> Recommend you look at the new LED lights that look like florescents. They are much brighter, they use less electricity, and they last longer. They are in our local Costco for about $30 per. Chuck



Are these the ones you are referring to?

http://www.costco.com/4’-Linkable-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain-2-pack.product.100284402.html


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## Nature Man (Sep 20, 2016)

kweinert said:


> Are these the ones you are referring to?
> 
> http://www.costco.com/4’-Linkable-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain-2-pack.product.100284402.html


Yes. I'm quite sure these are the ones. Chuck

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## kweinert (Sep 21, 2016)

Now I have to wonder what I did wrong in my computations. After seeing a used furnace on Craigslist (taken out because they upgraded A/C, needed a different furnace to match it) that was 90/72 (in/out) BTU I got to wondering why the garage would need 100,000 BTU when the whole house was only 72,000 BTU.

Anyone with more experience have some input on my numbers or have a suggestion for garage heat? 

I don't need to keep it 70 out there all the time (probably about 65 or so) and when I'm not there keeping it above 50 would work (so I don't have to worry about chemicals freezing and condensation on tools.) Maybe I just got ahold of the wrong numbers or did the math wrong.


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## NYWoodturner (Sep 21, 2016)

Ken - I put a pellet stove in my shop last winter and could not be happier. Pellets are $5 a bag and I can run 24 hours on a bag. Thats keeping a poorly insulated pole barn construction 40x30 shop at 70 degrees around the clock. Granted it was a mild winter last year but I couldn't turn it up past 30% of its range without being in shorts. You can vent them right through the side wall... you don't have to vent through the roof. I would seriously consider that option. With 2 walls addling the house I/m sure you would get bonus heat in the house.

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## kweinert (Sep 21, 2016)

NYWoodturner said:


> Ken - I put a pellet stove in my shop last winter and could not be happier.



Not something I'd considered, but it's worth looking at. Do you have a reference to your stove? Or at least the manufacturer so I can do some research?

Thanks.


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 21, 2016)

I now a guy that added a pellet stove to heat his auto repair shop, the thing worked really well! He vented it right out the side wall. He would buy the pellets a full pallet at a time. You just fill the hopper once in the morning and once at night, it auto feeds itself. Farm supply stores are a great source for them and now is the time they start to display them. They are pretty darn cool actually and burn very clean too.


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## rocky1 (Sep 21, 2016)

Not sure what you did in your formula Ken, I came up with the same thing, but that room doesn't need a hundred BTU furnace. After you questioned it, I got to thinking we have a 100 BTU furnace in a 40x80 shop with 16 foot ceilings in North Dakota. And, it will keep it warm if you can afford to pay the gas bill. Front room is 30 x 40 with 12 foot ceiling, and that one is only a 30,000 BTU.

BTU Calculator <~~ Go try that one, I think you'll like the results much better. Looks more like - 11,000 to 18,000 BTU - 30,000 if you don't insulate.

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## kweinert (Sep 22, 2016)

It's not only that I like it better, it seems much more reasonable and in line with what you'd need for a house, etc. Makes looking for a heater a lot easier as well.

Thank you.

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## NYWoodturner (Sep 22, 2016)

kweinert said:


> Not something I'd considered, but it's worth looking at. Do you have a reference to your stove? Or at least the manufacturer so I can do some research?
> 
> Thanks.



Yes - BRB


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## NYWoodturner (Sep 22, 2016)

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/pelpro-pp60-pellet-stove?cm_vc=-10005

Mine came from Tractor Supply, but several different folks carry it. I actually bartered some mahogany for it so the net installed cost was zero. My total heating cost last year was just a tad over $300 for the entire winter. I can't fill the propane tank once for that. My only other heat source out there is a Reznor propane heater.

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## kweinert (Sep 27, 2016)

Next installment: 



 

The trailer is out of the garage and is time to stack boxes in the center. I've gotten out my trusty T- square and started the layout. I've also been getting power requirements listed.

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## woodtickgreg (Sep 27, 2016)

Very cool Ken, seems like yesterday that I was just starting the same way. It's all very exciting and a lot of work but fun too. I remembered thinking about how I was going to set things up. I kept what I liked and didn't put back the things I didn't like. My shop is now better than it ever was, but I think I am still maxed out for a basement shop. Now is the time to do all the things that you always wanted to do in your shop as far as layout and setup. Looks like your off to a great start, have fun!


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 27, 2016)

Stupid cell phones, lol. Thanks Colin.

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## kweinert (Oct 3, 2016)

Ok, so a question. 

I'm in the process of laying out where I think I want everything. 

What do you folks think about radiant heat vs forced air? 

The only ceiling mount forced air I've seen had a horizontal vent system that basically doubles the cost. I'm trying to save some floor space if at all possible. 

I do want to be able to keep finishes and such out there in the winter.


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## rocky1 (Oct 3, 2016)

I want to say we encountered the same issue with the heater in the wood shop in North Dakota. Hard to find small natural gas heaters that draft up anymore for some reason. On a positive note, venting through the wall, and turning an elbow down, you'll never have to worry about the chimney being buried on the roof, or snow blowing down the chimney causing problems with the heater. The horizontal vent does work really well. We also wrapped the end of the pipe with a piece of screen to keep bees out, works good for other bugs and birds as well.


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## kweinert (Oct 10, 2016)

So some progress was accomplished you weekend. 

First I going the stairs moved and the platform built: 


 


 


 

That last one shows the spot I'll be putting in some of those drawers that I linked to earlier. 

Between the door and the wall will be a utility sink. 

Next up were some kitchen cupboards that we picked up at one of those recycle stores.


 


 
I ended up ripping 93" of 2x6 from a point to 2" so I could keep them level. The bandsaw will go in here and some cupboards will go on the other side. Three wall cupboards will go over this set of lowers.

And finally we have the one piece of equipment that I'm going to try to "sneak" over to the wife's side of the garage,.


 

You probably can't see it but I've also primed the corners in preparation of finishing the painting. Guy at the store aid that even with paint/ primer combos I'd get uneven results on drywall if I went with a gloss paint. Since it's likely that I'd be painting twice anyhow I figured that I may as well paint the first coat with the less expensive primer.

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## kweinert (Oct 12, 2016)

OK, so back to the heater question.

Opinions on radiant vs forced air. 

Two real considerations: I want to be comfortable when I work out there in the winter and I don't want to have to bring finishing materials/glues/etc in the house. It's perfectly fine to have a lower temp when I'm not working, I just need to be sure it's not going to freeze.

I appreciate any input on that.


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## rocky1 (Oct 12, 2016)

If you're going to maintain a lower temperature, should you need to open the door while it's cold out, Forced Air will bring you up to working temperatures much quicker than Radiant heat.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## woodtickgreg (Oct 12, 2016)

And radiant warms objects directly under it but does not really warm the air. If it was my choice I would go with forced air, it would definitely bring it up to temp quicker.

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## kweinert (Oct 24, 2016)

So, got some work done this weekend:

Looking towards the door into the house, showing some of the new cupboards and the placement of the table saw.


 
The drill press is where it's going to be installed once I get a countertop installed.

This shot shows the remainder of the cupboards. I know there's not much space between the cupboards and countertop but the garage door track gets in the way. I sort of have an idea of what might fit in that spot but I'll have to be a bit further on before I'm sure.


 
That's my old bandsaw, currently belongs to the son-in-law, but that's where my bandsaw will fit as well. I'll roll it out to use it, have dust collection behind it.

Here's the entertainment center. I have the TV up there, a Visio soundbar, and I added a small angled shelf to the side so I can hook up my old tablet and run Pandora. Have a couple of other chargers there as well so I can accommodate my son-in-law's iPhone when he comes over.


 
The freezer will be going over on my wife's side of the garage after a bit. We had always planned on moving it over there but when I was moving boxes around I found an outlet that was labeled "Dedicated to Freezer" so it must have been a good idea.

Here's the back corner. I started hanging the dust collector on the wall and I've moved the air compressor around the corner. It'll be on the other side of the wall after it's built. The new wall will come in on that corner and go towards the front.


 
You can just see the compressor in this view. The filter is sitting on the old cart for the dust collector. That will be disassembled for reuse once I figure out how/where to mount the bag and filter.

This is a shot towards the front corner again. It just shows a better view of the table saw.



There will be an outfeed/assembly table built and the saw will come off the mobile platform. I have enough room to cut a full-sized 4x8 piece of plywood. I will be building a router table into the table saw and adding some drawers underneath for the router accessories. The outfeed table will also have drawers built into it.

So, progress is being made. Just got word that the HOA approved our shed so I'll have to get that built in order to be able to move out the snow blower, lawn mower, assorted garden tools, etc. And I'll have a bit of storage out there for wood.

Those boxes between the table saw and the overhead drawer are all full of blanks. And the entire area under the platform by the door is stuffed full of blanks (temporarily) so I could make room on the floor to move the saw in place. 

I know it still doesn't look like much, but if you'd been here you'd know how much better it looks than it did a couple of weeks ago :)

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## woodtickgreg (Oct 24, 2016)

Wow Ken, you made a lot of progress! Looking really good.

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## kweinert (Oct 25, 2016)

I'm thinking of going in this direction for heat: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200577749_200577749







I think it's probably more than I need but several things went in to consideration:

* it mounts on the ceiling and in a smaller shop I think that's a good thing
* all the ventless ones I saw say they're only for supplemental heat, that they have to work with a furnace. So while their BTUs are closer to what I'm looking for I'm not convinced they're suitable
* It does have good reviews - some of the other brands, not so much
* uses a thermostat
* can be vented horizontally - but damn, that horizontal vent kit is expensive!

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## rocky1 (Oct 25, 2016)

On a positive note...

-- In over-sizing it Ken, it won't have to work as hard and that will likely result in less energy used over the long haul.
-- Recovery time will be much quicker in the event you open the doors. Which that to will likely result in energy savings.
-- Ceiling mount is the only way to go in a small shop. Try and point it in a direction where you won't be roasted standing at your work bench.
-- In my experience working with the one we installed in the shop in ND, very little heat escapes through the horizontal vent, meaning it all remains inside.

Considering everything included in the venting kit, price probably isn't too far out of line. HOWEVER... If venting through an outside wall fairly close to the unit, I'm not sure you need all of that, and you may in fact need additional pieces not in that kit. For instance the roof flashing would be unnecessary, you probably won't need 7 feet of double walled interlock pipe, you will need wall mount flanges to maintain 1 inch clearance around the pipe suggested per the product manual. You might want to install that inside a larger pipe maintaining that 1 inch clearance from combustible materials. *You'll also have a gas line to plumb up to the heater, and code may require a certified gas installer do that.* You might want to figure out where you're going to mount it and check with a local heating contractor on what you need for venting it. He would know local code on installation requirements and should be able to point out anything you might overlook there.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


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## woodtickgreg (Oct 25, 2016)

I like it, I think you made a good choice.


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## rocky1 (Oct 25, 2016)

I didn't think to mention... If you talk to a local contractor or your local gas company about installing this, most are agreeable to simply making connections, as that's usually all they are required to do by law. You do all the work of crawling around in the attic installing the mounting brackets, running your wire for the required electrical outlet, you hang the heater, you can install the thermostat. Personally I'd hold off on making the hole in the wall for the vent until they are there with the heater in place to determine where that goes, so it doesn't happen to wind up in the wrong place when they start plumbing the vent. They may even be agreeable to you running the gas line, but without pipe threading tools that will be more aggravation than you want to get into. But, all of that greatly reduces the time the contractor will be there, and will save you money in the long run. 

We mounted our heaters, had the gas company come out and hook them up. Addition to the building last year required moving the gas meter, and replumbing gas lines to both heaters and the boiler, but the local plumber was swamped and couldn't meet our deadline, so we plumbed all of the gas line did all of the electrical work; he made the gas connections, tested all of our joints, and signed off on it. We saved a ton of money both times doing the work we did ourselves.

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## kweinert (Oct 28, 2016)

Didn't think to mention in the last set of pictures, but the two walls are painted. As is the ceiling over the wall cabinets.

I made a discovery last night. I've been trying to work out how to mount the air filter/fines bag section. Turns out that since I have one of those Wynn Environmental air filters I can just turn the 3 supports upside down and mount the ring from the ceiling. Saves a bit of floor space.

Now for another solicitation of advice. Dust collection. Is there a reason that you can't use regular 4" stove pipe for that? I know people use PVC and the thicker walled metal for that sort of stuff. PVC would be OK, it's just that it's a bit heavy/awkward for putting in place by myself. I'm only sort of trying to cheap out on the shop setup. So far it's only a hobby, not a full business, so the payback of the investment is a consideration. Since I'm not a lottery winner that thought is always in my mind when trying to work this stuff out. (And just to ease all y'all's minds - the electrical and gas are certainly going to be permitted and inspected - I do want to be around to enjoy the shop once it's completed. I may be a fool at times but I try to avoid being a damn fool.)

So thoughts/experiences from those that have been there, done that, wish they'd done it differently are much appreciated.

Thanks.


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## Wildthings (Oct 28, 2016)

Wondering about the piping also! Have seen lots of talk using 5" snaplock pipe for duct work which I think is the same as stove pipe


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## rocky1 (Oct 28, 2016)

-- Have to seal all joints and seams with duct tape.
-- May be prone to corrosion over the long haul if any dust stuck in it and attracted moisture. (_i.e. joints at fittings._)
-- If you plugged it up, suction might unlock and unsnap it, but that's a pretty iffy.
-- Otherwise subject to dents.

But it should work for a long long time. 

PVC typically has a smoother interior wall resulting in less friction, and isn't prone to corrosion or dents as cause for it's popularity in plumbing of all natures.

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## kweinert (Nov 2, 2016)

So, a bit more progress. i got the counter tops on. Only 3/4 ply at the moment but I'll edge them in poplar once the saw is up and running.

Adapted my router table to be the right wing of the table saw and built a support/assembly table as well.









The outfeed table is going to have those drawers like I posted earlier.

I also finished up with the dust collector .





Sorry for the image quality - not a lot of light with a tablet camera.

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## woodtickgreg (Nov 3, 2016)

Making great progress!


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## kweinert (Nov 6, 2016)

So today I got the mostly built. 



 



 

A couple of studs left. I'm going to try enclosing the dust collector and putting the opening for the barrel on the garage side and putting some pegboard on that side for airflow in order to attempt to reduce the noise .

Reactions: Like 2 | Way Cool 1


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## kweinert (Nov 8, 2016)

Just found out that running electrical adds up. According to what I've researched I'm going to need 3-3-3-5 wire to run from the house panel to the subpanel and the price I have for that is almost $8/ft. By my calculations it's going to take about 40 ft to run down from the panel, across the house, and up to the new panel. I plan on adding 5 ft to that amount 'just in case' as it'd be a real bitch to end up a foot or so short. I suppose I could drill the holes and run some actual wire along the path and measure it, get a more accurate measurement. 

Since I'll need the holes anyhow that might be a good plan. Note that I thought of that as I was writing this post so thank you all for listening - it really helps. :)

I should get the remainder of the dust collector walls in, the air compressor bolted down, and the subpanel attached to the wall today. I'll post pictures if it happens.


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## rocky1 (Nov 8, 2016)

Yep!! Wire is not cheap when you get up there into the heavier stuff! Not cheap in the lighter stuff either, but the heavy stuff is downright scary. I about fainted when I put the run in for my welder!! Paid half as much for the wire and outlet as I did for the welder, to get it where I needed it to be, and it wasn't a cheap welder. 

At 40 ft. I'd measure with a tape measure before cutting it off. Trusted the little roll off measuring gizzy on the electrical wire rack at Lowes when putting the run in for my welder, and it was not purty!!


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## Palaswood (Nov 8, 2016)

I'm still conflicted about building so much storage for scrap material. Seems the time/effort better spent on projects than on organizing the cutoffs/waste from previous projects. 

I have so much scrap, that I find if I were to just get rid of most of it, I would get plenty back after starting up some actual projects, not just shop projects.

I'm jelly of the shop space. Currently trying to make a 1 car garage work and it's not easy.


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## kweinert (Nov 8, 2016)

Palaswood said:


> I'm still conflicted about building so much storage for scrap material. Seems the time/effort better spent on projects than on organizing the cutoffs/waste from previous projects.
> I'm jelly of the shop space. Currently trying to make a 1 car garage work and it's not easy.



It won't all be for scrap, some will be for tools. And in theory I'll be able to use the scrap for some of the other stuff I make (pendants, etc) but we'll have to see how well I can follow up on that stuff. I also intend to try my hand at making some of those fancy pen blanks/call blanks in the line of what Mark Gisi does. Again, something to try and see if it's something I enjoy doing.

I'll most likely have more of the deeper drawers but I want something I can pull out and look into. Shelves just end up having stuff shoved into the back of them and then it's stuff I can't find so I buy another one.

I am lucky to have a supporting wife that let me have the two car side of the garage. And that is letting me sneak a couple of things over on to her side that don't interfere with her parking. We'll have a 10x12 shed in the side yard for all the stuff that might normally go into a garage (mower, snow blower, garden tools, etc) so that helps as well. 10x12 is as large as the HOA will let us go. I *might* be able to sneak a little wood storage out there as well, but I'm going to have to get better at using what I have before adding on to the stash.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Schroedc (Nov 8, 2016)

@kweinert - Was reading through and you were asking about piping options for dust collection, One thing to consider is 4" PVC sewer pipe. Way cheaper than schedule 40, etc. Glue the joints, use a rubber jiffy boot to connect to the flexible lines by the tools. It's what I used in the shop and for the last 3 years been quite happy with it.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## rocky1 (Nov 8, 2016)

kweinert said:


> We'll have a 10x12 shed in the side yard for all the stuff that might normally go into a garage (mower, snow blower, garden tools, etc) so that helps as well. 10x12 is as large as the HOA will let us go. I *might* be able to sneak a little wood storage out there as well, but I'm going to have to get better at using what I have before adding on to the stash.



Any specifications on how tall it can be? You could maybe add a loft for wood storage? Two story storage shed maybe???


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## Palaswood (Nov 8, 2016)

I agree that those drawers will come in handy. I think that's a great idea. And for smaller figured pieces, that's as good a place as any to keep them. I guess depends on what you define as "scraps". I keep actual scraps that should have been thrown away immediately, but I throw em into a box just in case... 

I have a serious problem.
I shouldn't even be on this site until I use at least half of the lumber I have in my shop. But lets get real lol.


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## kweinert (Nov 8, 2016)

rocky1 said:


> Any specifications on how tall it can be? You could maybe add a loft for wood storage? Two story storage shed maybe???



Yes, 96" at the peak.


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## kweinert (Nov 22, 2016)

A little progress. 

Got the lights in. Not permanently, took out the old light socket and put in a plug. I'll be running wire up for two separate circuits but wanted to be sure 6 was enough. 



 

As you can see in that picture I now have the last two base cabinets in with the chop saw between them. 



 

The grinder is right next to the lathe. I used bolts, nuts, and washers to level out the chop saw.



 

That was much easier than trying to get the shelf perfectly aligned.

The air compressor is now bolted down. 

It's time to get the electrical going but I think I'll be using an extension cord for a bit because our shed *just* came in and i have to have it built by the end of the month or the HOA will get annoyed.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 2


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## kweinert (Jan 16, 2017)

OK, so it's been a while. Let's see what I can remember so I can catch you folks up.

Got shelves in the cupboards and emptied a bunch of boxes. Still a bunch to go but it's progress.
Got 'all' the stuff out of the wife's side of the garage so she can park inside.

I do have to say that all is in quotes because my wife just caught on yesterday. I put the air compressor over on her side at the back. It's out of her way but the noise will be out of the shop. I dug down to some pegboard that I had from the old shop and put it up top on the dust collector enclosure so the air circulation and noise is on her side. We had one extra bottom cupboard from the set I put in the garage and it was going to go next to the freezer (which is on her side) but the case was in pretty bad shape and the shed has a workbench in it so she said it'd be OK to put a standing wood storage there. So I did.

When she saw her car in the garage she noticed that the one wall is now wood storage as well - longer 4/4 stuff and plywood. Oh, and I put a 4 foot wide shelf across the end of the garage about 7 feet up and it's pretty much my stuff up there as well.

Here's the 'reassure your spouse' wood storage: 


 



 
She said something along the lines of how it was nice that I left her a place to park in my 3 car shop :)

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 5


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## rocky1 (Jan 17, 2017)

Personally, I think I'd invest in some 1" ratchet straps, or learn how to plait rope. All those cable clamps along the wall look like an accident waiting for a place to happen. Wife isn't going to be even a little impressed if she snags a dress or a coat on one of those on her way out the door to work. Not to mention once that rope unravels and you pull and tug on that a few times, it can pull out of that cable clamp fairly easy Ken.

Rope plaiting lessons if you want to go that route... It's really pretty easy to do. Just don't get drunk and try plaiting eyes in old tractor sized snatch ropes. You won't have any hide left on your finger tips before you realize you're tearing it all off fighting the rope. And, everyone looks at you funny walking around with 6 - 8 fingertips bandaged up for a week or more! 

_ Don't ask me how I know these things!! _

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


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## woodtickgreg (Jan 17, 2017)

@rocky1 Hey neat trick! So that's how that's done, I gotta try that one day. Might make me feel like a boys out again.


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## kweinert (Jan 17, 2017)

rocky1 said:


> Personally, I think I'd invest in some 1" ratchet straps, or learn how to plait rope. All those cable clamps along the wall look like an accident waiting for a place to happen. Wife isn't going to be even a little impressed if she snags a dress or a coat on one of those on her way out the door to work. Not to mention once that rope unravels and you pull and tug on that a few times, it can pull out of that cable clamp fairly easy Ken.
> 
> Rope plaiting lessons if you want to go that route... It's really pretty easy to do. Just don't get drunk and try plaiting eyes in old tractor sized snatch ropes. You won't have any hide left on your finger tips before you realize you're tearing it all off fighting the rope. And, everyone looks at you funny walking around with 6 - 8 fingertips bandaged up for a week or more!
> 
> _ Don't ask me how I know these things!! _



I haven't done that since my boy scout days.

Ratchet straps aren't, in my opinion, a good alternative. Most of what I'm holding in is only between two studs. The plywood does straddle a few (obviously.)

I think I'm going to give the plaiting a go. It'll definitely look better. This was sort of a field expedient way to get it all controlled while she was at work. And I'll use something different than the blue poly rope - that was just left over from the move and tying tarps down.

Thanks.


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## kweinert (Jan 17, 2017)

rocky1 said:


> learn how to plait rope.



One thing he didn't say was how much to unwind for plaiting back in - any advice on that front? I presume it's related to the rope diameter, but do you have any advice based on your experience?

Thanks.


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## woodtickgreg (Jan 17, 2017)

kweinert said:


> One thing he didn't say was how much to unwind for plaiting back in - any advice on that front? I presume it's related to the rope diameter, but do you have any advice based on your experience?
> 
> Thanks.


I'm assuming more is gooder.


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## kweinert (Jan 17, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> I'm assuming more is gooder.



To a point, sure - but we don't need to make the entire rope twice as big

Reactions: Funny 1


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## rocky1 (Jan 17, 2017)

Well it does depend somewhat on size of the rope, but one that size 4 - 6 inches would suffice. Longer to an extent is easier to work with, but you can get too long, and obviously on tractor size snatch ropes 1 1/2" diameter, 4" - 5" isn't enough to plait back in, there you need 9 - 10 inches.

As Greg suggested, more is better. You can always cut it off, or you can keep plaiting it back in until it runs out if you're having fun. But no, you don't really need to make the whole rope fat. 

If using Nylon or Poly rope you may be tempted to take the lighter after it and melt it back, but that's not advisable at the end of your plait. It melts the strands on the main trunk of the line and causes premature failure. You're better off buying some good electrician's tape, tape the end of each strand while plaiting, retape if you cut it off, then tape it all up a couple inches either side of the end of the plait to finish and hold it all. It'll take a lot of abuse if it's decent tape.


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## rocky1 (Jan 17, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> @rocky1 Hey neat trick! So that's how that's done, I gotta try that one day. Might make me feel like a boys out again.



Starting the plait properly is the hardest part of it Greg, pay close attention to that part of the video. There are several more how to videos on You Tube, a couple explain the starting out routine a little better. One there using a tent stake to do this with that was pretty ingenious also. Looked like it would save on the fingertips. Practicing... the different colored tape would be a cool trick and help keep it sorted out, it's pretty easy to wrap back under one of the your strands you're plaiting back in, if you aren't careful.

Nylon can be very slippery, your strands will tend to want to unwind on new rope, and you'll need to keep twisting them back up as you go, if that happens. Nylon when new and clean doesn't hold the twist he's showing in the video either. It'll lay flatter when you plait it back in, and it does the over and under routine a little easier. On Nylon it's possible to work your plait so that the strands you plait back in run straight up the trunk of the rope, rather than wrapping around it as seen in the video.

While it is fun, once you get the hang of it and get going, don't get carried away doing it. Unless you do it all the time, it's real easy to blister your fingers up very quickly working the twist in the rope up and cinching the plaited strands. Even when you aren't drunk!! Doing this after 10 - 12 beers really isn't advisable!!

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