# Falling Trees



## alexanderbuzz

This is two of the video we uploaded


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## alexanderbuzz

I don't see the short cut for u-tube for downing of the trees is this permited


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## Kevin

alexanderbuzz said:


> I don't see the short cut for u-tube for downing of the trees is this permited



I think your code for the second video must have been wrong somehow. Try pasting it again.


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## alexanderbuzz

Ok here are the two short cuts again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JWk2VZMjTU&feature=BFa&list=UL8JWk2VZMjTU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hVDYBhKPVk&feature=BFa&list=UL8JWk2VZMjTU


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## Kevin

alexanderbuzz said:


> Ok here are the two short cuts again
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JWk2VZMjTU&feature=BFa&list=UL8JWk2VZMjTU
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hVDYBhKPVk&feature=BFa&list=UL8JWk2VZMjTU



It worked that time - I embedded it for you. If you click that drop-down menu on the right side of the text box - the one that looks like a TV set with antennas, that's where the Youtube embed tool is.


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## Kevin

Well like you said there wasn't much that was right about that, but you know that now. You kept saying he didn't go deep enough in his notch cut but in fact it was way too deep. You only want to take out about 20% of the width, and make sure it's at least 90 degrees. On a straight non-leaner like that unless one side is real heavy with limbs, you could make your notch, then come in behind with the back cut and follw it in with wedges, but the back cut needs to be a few inches above the center plane of the notch. You also need to leave some hinge wood, so slow down the approach to the hinge with you cut and stop occasionally to hammer your wedges in. 

You'll know when she's ready to go. She'll tell you with a snap crackle and pop. And by now you also know you must use proper saftey gear as you said. In the first video, that "small branch" that your son said wouldn't hurt looked plenty big enough to kill him. It doesn't take much limb to cave in your skull. 

Good on you for posting this and asking for critique. That's how you learn.


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## CodyC

No hardhat, no chainsaw chaps, no hearing protection and those sunglasses were probably not safety glasses. In addition to Kevin's advice I'll say that when you are falling a big hardwood like that one, look up frequently while sawing. Lots of danger lurkng overhead.

Oh, get a new cameraman, too. I almost got dizzy watching that second video at the start.


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## alexanderbuzz

I was wondering if anyone would like to help me harvest 5 acres of hardwoods in Rye Texas 77369
Keystone pipeline is running there pipeline down my brothers road and they’re taking 50 feet so I need to harvest that part of all the Red Oak, White Oak, Sweetgum, Hickory/Pecan, Holly, Magnolia and trees I don’t know what they are.
He has a total of 35 acres and that is where I’ve been harvesting my lumber.
I need someone who can tell Red Oak from White Oak, and has experience in downing trees also would be nice to have their own sawmill but not necessary.
I have a Hudson sawmill Oscar330, tractor 40 HP massy Ferguson my track goes up to 16 feet long have stickers and timbers to put the lumber on. 
I know we can make a deal like one board for me and one board for you. I’m a one man sawmill now my boy went to work for Rexco in Port Lavaca and I gave him my blessing and doing well.
I will be going up to Rye on Thursday 11th and I take Hwy 59 to 610 and pick up 90 to Liberty Texas and pick up 146 to Lake Livingston you can goggle it on map quest.
Come up and check it out I have to move the saw mill off the pipeline and also logs due to keystone running there pipeline.
We will be moving the saw mill off the pipeline around a big carport so we can stack the lumber under it or if you want to take your lumber with you bring a trailer. 
I have logs down now white oak, magnolia and hickory/pecan I have to slab the ends have been painted and I went up last month and they still look fine.
Only serious ones please 
Thanks


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## LoneStar

Wouldnt it be easier to make Keystone pay for the cutting and just get them to stack all that nice wood out of their line for you to mill later ?


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## Kevin

Red oaks have sharp pointy lobes on their leaves and white oaks have rounded lobes. Several water oak species in Texas do not have the classic looking wo leaf some are a single leaf like water oak but still rounded. Live oak too has rounded leaves but some coastal live oaks have sharp spiny things on the leaf. 

Order yourself some real end sealer. Call 1-888-363-2628 and tell them you want to order a 5 gallon bucket of Anchor Seal 2. You'll need to mill lots and lots of stickers - mill them off the flitches you take right under your slabs. Good luck.


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## alexanderbuzz

Kevin said:


> Red oaks have sharp pointy lobes on their leaves and white oaks have rounded lobes. Several water oak species in Texas do not have the classic looking wo leaf some are a single leaf like water oak but still rounded. Live oak too has rounded leaves but some coastal live oaks have sharp spiny things on the leaf.
> 
> Order yourself some real end sealer. Call 1-888-363-2628 and tell them you want to order a 5 gallon bucket of Anchor Seal 2. You'll need to mill lots and lots of stickers - mill them off the flitches you take right under your slabs. Good luck.



Thanks I will order the Anchor Seal come on up and spend a weekend and harvest some lumber with me in Nov are Dec I have a lot of stickers and we can stay with my brother .


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## alexanderbuzz

:wacko1: Ok here is another video of downing a tree and see what went wrong


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## Kevin

That's what called a barber chair. If severe enough it can take your head off if you're standing in the wrong place. I'm afraid you're going to get seriously hurt or killed. You should take one of the Arbor Master courses. There's one coming up in San Antonio next month and you definitely should take the course if at all possible. I would like to take a professional course like that myself even though I have loads of experience, I am self taught and I know I would be a better and safer logger after a course like that. But in my opinion you and your son critically need to take the course before you end up in critical care or worse. 

No offense meant just concerned for your safety.


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## alexanderbuzz

Kevin said:


> That's what called a barber chair. If severe enough it can take your head off if you're standing in the wrong place. I'm afraid you're going to get seriously hurt or killed. You should take one of the Arbor Master courses. There's one coming up in San Antonio next month and you definitely should take the course if at all possible. I would like to take a professional course like that myself even though I have loads of experience, I am self taught and I know I would be a better and safer logger after a course like that. But in my opinion you and your son critically need to take the course before you end up in critical care or worse.
> 
> No offense meant just concerned for your safety.



I just checked on the course they will get back to me. Thanks


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## davidgiul

This is like watching Rocky Horror Show. Those kind of drops are dangerous as all get out. You think the tree is going one way and it kicks out right where you are standing and fast. The tree can also lean back on your cut and pinch your bar and possibly ruin it. 
I agree with Kevin, take a course or find some professional tree guy to go out with you for a day.
And even the best of the loggers can get killed on any given day.


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## cabomhn

I agree with everything said here, safety is always best when it comes to something that can take your life in a heartbeat. I haven't done much tree feeling myself but even the times taking out some moderate sized pines in my front yard have been nerve racking and looking back I wished my dad and I had some more knowledge going in to it. [/quote]


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## alexanderbuzz

Here is a video on hauling out the log nothing special but safer


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## Kevin

I hope you won't think we're trying to nit-pick you on everything, but that wasn't any safer than the logging I saw, and maybe even more dangerous. A tractor is a very unstable piece of machinery anyway with its high center of gravity. But we all know that. However, when using a tractor to skid logs you must NEVER attach the chain above the imaginary centerline of the back axle. Look how high the attachment point is for the chain! It could not be more dangerous than how you had it attached. 

It doesn't take much to snag a log, and as fast as he's driving if it did snag it would have flipped the tractor up and back on top of him before he could have reacted. This is exact type of accident is a common occurrence especially within the farming/ranching occupations where they decide they need to remove a tree or three and they use their tractors in the way you just did. No it is not safe it's very unsafe. Have your son attach the chain to the trailer hitch which is below the plane of the axle and ask him to drop it down a gear even then. 

Since the front of the log will not be up off the ground, if you cannot afford to buy a fetching or tractor arch (they are easy to build) then whittle the end of the log sort of like a sharpened pencil. You don't need to bring it to a point like a pencil but just soften the edges a good bit where the log will glide up and over anything it might otherwise snag up on. This is not ideal but it works and is much safer than your current practice. 

There isn't one single facet of logging that is safe, or that can be taken for granted. Even walking around a tree with an idling chainsaw without the chain brake on can ruin your day if you trip and fall, and tripping and falling in the woods is unavoidable. Again I hope you won't feel picked on and I commend you for showing these videos even though you acknowledge your inexperience. These will help someone else and hopefully help you immediately by taking action to educate yourselves.


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## alexanderbuzz

Kevin said:


> I hope you won't think we're trying to nit-pick you on everything, but that wasn't any safer than the logging I saw, and maybe even more dangerous. A tractor is a very unstable piece of machinery anyway with its high center of gravity. But we all know that. However, when using a tractor to skid logs you must NEVER attach the chain above the imaginary centerline of the back axle. Look how high the attachment point is for the chain! It could not be more dangerous than how you had it attached.
> 
> It doesn't take much to snag a log, and as fast as he's driving if it did snag it would have flipped the tractor up and back on top of him before he could have reacted. This is exact type of accident is a common occurrence especially within the farming/ranching occupations where they decide they need to remove a tree or three and they use their tractors in the way you just did. No it is not safe it's very unsafe. Have your son attach the chain to the trailer hitch which is below the plane of the axle and ask him to drop it down a gear even then.
> 
> Since the front of the log will not be up off the ground, if you cannot afford to buy a fetching or tractor arch (they are easy to build) then whittle the end of the log sort of like a sharpened pencil. You don't need to bring it to a point like a pencil but just soften the edges a good bit where the log will glide up and over anything it might otherwise snag up on. This is not ideal but it works and is much safer than your current practice.
> 
> There isn't one single facet of logging that is safe, or that can be taken for granted. Even walking around a tree with an idling chainsaw without the chain brake on can ruin your day if you trip and fall, and tripping and falling in the woods is unavoidable. Again I hope you won't feel picked on and I commend you for showing these videos even though you acknowledge your inexperience. These will help someone else and hopefully help you immediately by taking action to educate yourselves.



I don’t mind at all I’m learning a lot from you and I really appreciate it. I’m going to order chaps, gloves, hardhat, and safety glasses also work on getting the log attached to the ball hitch and slow down.
Thanks


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## Kevin

alexanderbuzz said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you won't think we're trying to nit-pick you on everything, but that wasn't any safer than the logging I saw, and maybe even more dangerous. A tractor is a very unstable piece of machinery anyway with its high center of gravity. But we all know that. However, when using a tractor to skid logs you must NEVER attach the chain above the imaginary centerline of the back axle. Look how high the attachment point is for the chain! It could not be more dangerous than how you had it attached.
> 
> It doesn't take much to snag a log, and as fast as he's driving if it did snag it would have flipped the tractor up and back on top of him before he could have reacted. This is exact type of accident is a common occurrence especially within the farming/ranching occupations where they decide they need to remove a tree or three and they use their tractors in the way you just did. No it is not safe it's very unsafe. Have your son attach the chain to the trailer hitch which is below the plane of the axle and ask him to drop it down a gear even then.
> 
> Since the front of the log will not be up off the ground, if you cannot afford to buy a fetching or tractor arch (they are easy to build) then whittle the end of the log sort of like a sharpened pencil. You don't need to bring it to a point like a pencil but just soften the edges a good bit where the log will glide up and over anything it might otherwise snag up on. This is not ideal but it works and is much safer than your current practice.
> 
> There isn't one single facet of logging that is safe, or that can be taken for granted. Even walking around a tree with an idling chainsaw without the chain brake on can ruin your day if you trip and fall, and tripping and falling in the woods is unavoidable. Again I hope you won't feel picked on and I commend you for showing these videos even though you acknowledge your inexperience. These will help someone else and hopefully help you immediately by taking action to educate yourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t mind at all I’m learning a lot from you and I really appreciate it. I’m going to order chaps, gloves, hardhat, and safety glasses also work on getting the log attached to the ball hitch and slow down.
> Thanks
Click to expand...


I wish all newbies could have your attitude - there'd be a lot fewer accidents to read about. Let us know if you have any questions along the way we're here for you.


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## alexanderbuzz

Thanks and I will


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## alexanderbuzz

I will have more video on running the sawmill, also on the trees. If I take a close up of the leaves and the trunks can anybody tell me if it’s white oak or red oak. I will be going up to Rye Thursday this time to finish moving the sawmill and cleaning up the pipeline so Keystone can run there pipeline.


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## Kevin

alexanderbuzz said:


> I will have more video on running the sawmill, also on the trees. If I take a close up of the leaves and the trunks can anybody tell me if it’s white oak or red oak. I will be going up to Rye Thursday this time to finish moving the sawmill and cleaning up the pipeline so Keystone can run there pipeline.



We don't need to see anymore tree felling videos but milling and tree ID videos would be great.


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## alexanderbuzz

:no dice. more please: Ok I will be going up in am and take some better video and pictures of the trees. When I get all my safety equipment together and the tractor issue right I will post. I do like the sight and I know I can learn a lot from everyone. I will also take some shots of my shop and wood it’s not pretty but it works.
Thanks


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## brown down

one thing that i see done right, is the fact you guys, knowing you are new to tree felling, that you aren't doing it alone. i fell trees by myself, but will always let at least one person know exactly where i am going to be. 
judging the way a tree is going to go is the tough part. I actually use a bolt on a string to try to help me judge which way the tree is growing compared to the landscape. nothing worse than dealing with a hanger. 
in the second video when that tree got hung up. not so sure i would have gone in like your sone did. kevin is right, a barber chair can wreck your day fast.
I will always sacrafice another tree by dropping it into the hanger rather than putting myself in even more danger. I am lucky in the fact i have a great friend who has had a tree service company for years and has and still does give me lessons. nothing better than learning a skill from a master IMO
another thing i saw with your son, was him using the nose of the bar to cut the groove for the wedge. eventually you are going to get some nasty kick back and possibly get seriously hurt.


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## Kevin

We all get hangers on occasion. Here's one way to deal with them.


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## brown down

Kevin said:


> We all get hangers on occasion. Here's one way to deal with them.


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## CodyC

That Progressive Farmer video was okay if you are falling one or two trees. A production faller would laugh at it, however.

I always make the gunning cut first. IMHO, that is the definitive cut in determining falling direction. The only time I borecut is on leaners.

The video would have been more believable if he were cutting a bigger tree. That pecker-pole in the vid could be cut just about any old way with no problem.

Disclaimer: I'm into my 5th Corona tonight. :wacko1:


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