# Love em or hate em



## Kenbo (Apr 8, 2015)

Well there doesn't seem to be any sort of middle ground when it comes to the Sawstop. Folks either love the saw or they hate it and all it stands for. Either way, I've finally pulled the trigger on a new one for myself. Ordered a new Professional Cabinet Saw with the 36" rails, the upgraded T-glide fence and the 230 volt 3HP motor. Personally, I'm looking forward to accepting delivery on this puppy and taking it through its paces. Thoughts?

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## Brink (Apr 8, 2015)

I love my table saw, great place to tape sandpaper to flatten plane sole, nice straight sides to cut sandpaper on, can stack lots of stuff on it, too.

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## Kenbo (Apr 8, 2015)

Brink said:


> I love my table saw, great place to tape sandpaper to flatten plane sole, nice straight sides to cut sandpaper on, can stack lots of stuff on it, too.




I would expect this answer from you sir.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 8, 2015)

Yeah, from what I've seen, most of the younger generation are all about it... but the veteran woodworkers don't like the idea. 

Personally, I think it's a great concept, but the price just isn't there for me. When I'm able, I plan to upgrade to a PM2000.... which is still about a grand cheaper than the equivalent (if there is such thing) Sawstop. I like that the sawstop can be disengaged for cutting wet wood, and love the fact that it can prevent fingers, arms, etc from being torn to shreds.

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## ripjack13 (Apr 8, 2015)

I like it. It is a great idea. I talked the shop carpenter at Pratt n Whitney to upgrade to one.

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## Kenbo (Apr 8, 2015)

Don't kid yourself. I've seen some pretty nasty wounds made by a Sawstop. It all just depends on how you hit the blade. I have not seen any amputations from a Sawstop as of yet. I'm hoping to never find out but given my personal situation and my reason for purchasing the saw, it is nice to know that my injuries might not be as catastrophic using this unit.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Brink (Apr 8, 2015)

Does it come with a riving knife?

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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 8, 2015)

Doesn't the government require all table saws to have one now?

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## EricJS (Apr 8, 2015)

Take it from somebody who was "badly bitten" by a tablesaw about 13 years ago, I believe the SawStop is a well justified purchase. It's like an insurance policy - that can flatten the soles of your handplanes.

Enjoy!

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## Kenbo (Apr 8, 2015)

Brink said:


> Does it come with a riving knife?




Yup, one of my favourite things about it.


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## Kenbo (Apr 8, 2015)

JR Custom Calls said:


> Doesn't the government require all table saws to have one now?




No. They tried to pass that legislation and it was shot down in flames.
It was a concern for a while though. I'd hate to see that happen. I don't like monopolies on the market.


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## Sprung (Apr 8, 2015)

Nice buy, Ken!

Whenever I upgrade my TS, I have already decided that it will be a SawStop or something similar. (I was just reading not long ago that another company has introduced a similar technology and it'll be interesting to see what saws it ends up on and how it performs - though I can't remember right now which company it is.) From what I've read, even aside from the safety aspect, SawStop saws are great saws.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kenbo (Apr 8, 2015)

Sprung said:


> Nice buy, Ken!
> 
> Whenever I upgrade my TS, I have already decided that it will be a SawStop or something similar. (I was just reading not long ago that another company has introduced a similar technology and it'll be interesting to see what saws it ends up on and how it performs - though I can't remember right now which company it is.) From what I've read, even aside from the safety aspect, SawStop saws are great saws.




From what I understand, it is the Bosch table saw. It seems to be a different mechanism though and it also seems to be somewhat reusable whereas Sawstops brake mechanism is a one shot deal. I'm no expert on the Bosch unit, but it definitely has its work cut out for it breaking into an industry that Sawstop basically created and dominates.

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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 8, 2015)

Kenbo said:


> No. They tried to pass that legislation and it was shot down in flames.
> It was a concern for a while though. I'd hate to see that happen. I don't like monopolies on the market.


I don't see how that would create a monopoly... Heck, every single table saw that I looked at before purchasing my JET had one. I thought someone had told me the government made them start putting them on, but perhaps it's just something companies have started doing to avoid lawsuits. Either way, I'm glad mine has one... that was a MUST for me, and one of the big reasons I passed up on some older saws I found on CL


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## Nature Man (Apr 8, 2015)

Congrats! Think that's the Rolls Royce of table saws! Chuck

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kenbo (Apr 8, 2015)

As far as I know, it isn't mandatory, but I've been wrong before. IMO, the monopoly part comes in the technology and if they were to have Sawstop's technology incorporated into every manufacturer's design, it would no longer give the manufacturers the freedom to design the tool the way they saw fit. Instead, they would have to build it to conform with Sawstop's specs in order to allow the brake mechanisms to function properly. But that is a can of worms that may I shouldn't open here on this particular thread.


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 8, 2015)

Kenbo said:


> As far as I know, it isn't mandatory, but I've been wrong before. IMO, the monopoly part comes in the technology and if they were to have Sawstop's technology incorporated into every manufacturer's design, it would no longer give the manufacturers the freedom to design the tool the way they saw fit. Instead, they would have to build it to conform with Sawstop's specs in order to allow the brake mechanisms to function properly. But that is a can of worms that may I shouldn't open here on this particular thread.


I think we're talking about two different things... I made mention of the government when Eric asked if it had a riving knife.. I probably should have quoted him.


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## Kenbo (Apr 8, 2015)

You're right. I'm talking about the brake mechanism. Not the riving knife. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Funny how that gets confused. My old saw doesn't have a riving knife.....my new one does and I'm happy about that.

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## Mike1950 (Apr 8, 2015)

I think the tech is great but I sure hope it does not stop folks from using common sense safety. No matter what you do with a tool like that there are still hundreds of ways to do plenty of harm. Nothing is a replacement for safe methods. Also I would be very curious to know what % of Sawstops have the safety feature shut off. That is what happens with so many of those sort of features. Looks like a nice saw Ken- you will like the HP.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Kenbo (Apr 8, 2015)

Mike1950 said:


> I think the tech is great but I sure hope it does not stop folks from using common sense safety. No matter what you do with a tool like that there are still hundreds of ways to do plenty of harm. Nothing is a replacement for safe methods. Also I would be very curious to know what % of Sawstops have the safety feature shut off. That is what happens with so many of those sort of features. Looks like a nice saw Ken- you will like the HP.




Thanks Mike. I agree that there still needs to be an extreme amount of precaution taken when using a table saw, regardless of what techno stuff they have installed in it. As for me, I intend to step up my safety procedures on the saw a little and go that route so that i don't become complacent. As for shutting the safety feature off, it's a pain in the butt to do. You have to turn a key and hold it for so long while flicking a switch and then flick another switch to allow the motor to start and then you can make a cut in the bypass mode of the saw where the brake is disengaged. Once the saw has been shut off, and the blade stops turning, the brake feature automatically goes back to the safety mode and if you want to make another cut in the bypass mode, you have to reset the machine and start the whole process over again. Sounds like a pain I know, but that's a good thing. The harder it is to bypass, the less folks will be doing it. Although I would find it hard to believe that someone would spend that kind of money, only to disengage the feature that the saw is famous for.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Bean_counter (Apr 8, 2015)

Nice purchase, I'm with Matt my next large purchase will be a sawstop and the 3hp one to boot. On eday my kids will be out there with me and I think it's a good insurance policy. The price tag right now is the only thing that has stopped me. I'm hoping with Bosch's introduction of the "Reaxx" will help bring the price down. Only thing is Bosch is only introducing it to the job site market right now. The technology for that saw is pretty amazing as well. It doesnt use a brake like the SS, but uses an air bag piston to push the blade into the cabinet, blade keeps moving. I guess I'm part of the younger generation, but shop safety and tool respect is a high priority of mine but it only takes one goof. Can't wait to see pics (now your obligated)

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## barry richardson (Apr 8, 2015)

Yea they make it pretty hard to bypass. Wont operate without a cartridge either. So when you fire one, you better have a spare, or you are down till you get one. We have had a couple at work for 8 years now, very nice saws, they have been used hard, probably fired the brakes at least 20 times by now, only a couple times when actually sensing flesh though...

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## Kenbo (Apr 9, 2015)

barry richardson said:


> Yea they make it pretty hard to bypass. Wont operate without a cartridge either. So when you fire one, you better have a spare, or you are down till you get one. We have had a couple at work for 8 years now, very nice saws, they have been used hard, probably fired the brakes at least 20 times by now, only a couple times when actually sensing flesh though...




I purchased an extra cartridge just in case. I know that there is the possibility of false tripping. Wet wood, hitting a nail that is grounded to the table, cutting into an aluminum fence etc so I didn't want a false trip to stop my work day.


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## kazuma78 (Apr 9, 2015)

I didnt know about the Reaxx saw. Thats pretty cool too, nice it doesnt destroy the blade and can be reset without a new cartridge.

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## Schroedc (Apr 9, 2015)

I've been impressed with the saw, just the cost that holds me back right now. My wife and I just had a discussion about these saws after a local guy took half a finger off on his table saw this weekend.

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## barry richardson (Apr 9, 2015)

I work in a woodshop that is part of an Arts and Crafts center for military and retirees, so we have a lot of folks of all different skill levels using the saws, and some very senior people who shouldn't be using machines at all, IMO. so the safety saws are great in this situation, but by the same token, many people aren't mindful of things that can set the saw off, I've goofed several times myself, I once touched the side of the blade with a metal tape measure after the saw was turned off, but the blade hadn't quite stopped yet that, getting ready for the next cut, and set it off.. Use the bypass if you cut plexi too, the fuzz creates static that will set it off. Contrary to what most believe (that firing the brake will ruin the blade) from our experience it usually doesn't harms the blade. broke teeth on a couple, but mostly we inspect the blade, and if there is no apparent damage, continue using it, and they are fine...

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## Mike1950 (Apr 9, 2015)

Kenbo said:


> Thanks Mike. I agree that there still needs to be an extreme amount of precaution taken when using a table saw, regardless of what techno stuff they have installed in it. As for me, I intend to step up my safety procedures on the saw a little and go that route so that i don't become complacent. As for shutting the safety feature off, it's a pain in the butt to do. You have to turn a key and hold it for so long while flicking a switch and then flick another switch to allow the motor to start and then you can make a cut in the bypass mode of the saw where the brake is disengaged. Once the saw has been shut off, and the blade stops turning, the brake feature automatically goes back to the safety mode and if you want to make another cut in the bypass mode, you have to reset the machine and start the whole process over again. Sounds like a pain I know, but that's a good thing. The harder it is to bypass, the less folks will be doing it. Although I would find it hard to believe that someone would spend that kind of money, only to disengage the feature that the saw is famous for.



I did not know that Thanks Ken for the info. You give credit to folks that I do not but then again I remember folks cuttings seat belts out of cars so they did not get in way.

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## Kevin (Apr 9, 2015)

I have always liked the concept but hated the political push the inventor uses to make his saw technology mandatory for all new saws solely in order to enrich himself. That just goess all over me. 

There are plenty of legit reasons why that technology wouldnt be desirable in some applications but he doeant mind depriving craftsman of the freedom to choose. His goal is to make his texhnology mandatory and ring that cash register for all its worth before his patents run out. He would have made a good right hand man for Moussalini. Hea not getting a penny from me. Other than that I have no opinion on it.

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## Kenbo (Apr 9, 2015)

Kevin said:


> I have always liked the concept but hated the political push the inventor uses to make his saw technology mandatory for all new saws solely in order to enrich himself. That just goess all over me.
> 
> There are plenty of legit reasons why that technology wouldnt be desirable in some applications but he doeant mind depriving craftsman of the freedom to choose. His goal is to make his texhnology mandatory and ring that cash register for all its worth before his patents run out. He would have made a good right hand man for Moussalini. Hea not getting a penny from me. Other than that I have no opinion on it.




Like the thread title suggests............you either love em, or you hate em, regardless of the reasons, there doesn't seem to be a middle ground.


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## Kenbo (Apr 9, 2015)

Well I got the call this morning..........my saw is arriving at my house tomorrow in the morning!!!!!!! Guess what I'm doing this weekend........

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## Brink (Apr 9, 2015)

Getting the top off the jeep?

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## Kenbo (Apr 9, 2015)

Brink said:


> Getting the top off the jeep?




God I love you. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

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## Bean_counter (Apr 10, 2015)

Pics and a review I hope

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## Kenbo (Apr 10, 2015)

Bean_counter said:


> Pics and a review I hope



Although it's not my normal type of video for my show, I intend to film an assembly video of the saw. The review will definitely come a few months down the road, when I can give an educated opinion of the unit and how I have liked its performance to date. If you are interested, I will be sure to post some pictures of it tomorrow once I have it together and calibrated to my liking. It did arrive today, as scheduled and I've only gotten as far as to put the mobile base on it. Tomorrow is the planned assembly date.

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## Kenbo (Apr 11, 2015)

Okay, so the saw is assembled. It would have probably been done a lot faster, except for the fact that I was working alone, and when it comes to calibration (mitre slots to fence, mitre slots to blade, bevel stops at 0 and 45, squareness of fence to saw table etc) I'm really really picky. Where it would be just fine for someone else, I have to have it calibrated that little extra. I think I spent over an hour making sure that when I crank the blade bevel to 0 and 45, that the stops make it so that the blade reads 0 and 45.....NOT 0 and 45.05 or 44.95. I want 45 and 45 is what I have. The 0 stop was perfect right from the factory and although the fence required a slight adjustment, everything else seems to be right on. I checked the blade alignment with callipers today and it was perfect, but we will see just how perfect tomorrow when I put the dial indicator on it a see how many thousandths of an inch "perfect" is really out. But that's just me. I compared major components of the saw to my Ridgid TS3650 while I was assembling the Sawstop and was very surprised at how much more robust the Sawstop was over my old shop workhorse. I'm hoping to have some good luck with the new saw and have it serve me just as well as my Ridgid did. I still have some more calibration to do tomorrow, just for my own piece of mind and I have to re-calibrate my INCRA mitre fence to the new saw but for that, I'm going to be ordering some new hardware for it. The old stuff is really worn. Only made 2 cuts with the new saw today and was pleased with both. The 3 HP motor purrs like a kitten and surprisingly is much quieter than my old saw. Okay, enough of my babbling..........here's some pics.

Reactions: EyeCandy! 1 | Way Cool 3 | Informative 1


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## Bean_counter (Apr 12, 2015)

Very nice Kenbo and thanks for the pics. The saw looks great and makes me want one even more. Good to hear that comes out pretty square from the factory. I have a 4512 and want to upgrade bad, but there are other things that are more important says the wife. 

Now the real test, and I don't want you to be pansy and use a hot dog either

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Kenbo (Apr 12, 2015)

I was able to play with my new toy for a while today and I love how solid it feels.


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## Kenbo (Apr 13, 2015)

I'm still playing with calibrating the saw the way that I like it. I went out to the shop today after work (because it was a gorgeous day and I could open the door and the window and get some fresh air) to align the mitre slots to the blade. I checked the briefly when I assembled the saw with my callipers but I really wanted to put the dial indicator to it. I was pretty pleased with the results out of the box, when the front side of the blade and the back side of the blade were only out by .0003". That's pretty impressive right out of the crate and I'm pretty content to leave it like that. After ages of fiddling with my Ridgid, I was lucky to get it to .002". Tomorrow, I align the fence the way I like it.

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## barry richardson (Apr 13, 2015)

I can see one good thing already, looks like you can adjust the position of your on/off control unit ( I hope). The one I use, it is the industrial one, has the box mount welded to the frame, and it is too far forward, one is constantly bumping it with their thigh and turning the unit off when they don't intend too, and you have to wait for the blade to coast to full stop before it will let you power it up again.

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## Kenbo (Apr 14, 2015)

Went out to the shop again today to complete my calibration of the saw. Double checked that the rip fence was parallel to the miter slots and levelled out my zero clearance insert. I also took apart the magnetic contact switch and wired in a longer power cord. The saw comes with a 9 foot cord which would be sufficient for most, but for my application, it was just shy. I added a 20' cord on it and dressed the cables along the under side of the saw so that they are not dragging the ground and becoming a trip hazard. NOW, the saw is ready for some serious action. Looking forward to the weekend.

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