# Hollowing out deep cylinders like vases?



## TXMoon (Sep 11, 2019)

Well I have destroyed another attempt at a vase on the lathe today. This was attempt No. 3. I can get about 4" down with a Forstner bit in a drill chuck but when I try to hollow deeper the tool, in this case a bowl gouge, catches and pieces of wood go flying. 

So my question is, how do you hollow out 6", 8" deep cylinders like vases?

Thank you,
TX Moon


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## TimR (Sep 11, 2019)

PFM...


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Sep 11, 2019)

I can't give much advice because I haven't done vases but....a bowl gouge IS NOT made for hollowing and can hurt you. You need a hollowing tool.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## TimR (Sep 11, 2019)

Ok, couple things to consider. 
1- bowl gouge best used for bowls where minimal overhang off the tool rest. Bowl gouge pretty aggressive cutter esp when it catches. Things get pretty dynamic.
2- as you start hanging over tool rest, vibration and cut control are at odds. The more you hang off the tool rest, the bigger diameter of boring bar needed to maintain control.
3- having a hollowing system helps maintain control so you can concentrate on making a lot of light cuts using small high speed steel or carbide cutters.

Digest that and we’ll go from there

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## TimR (Sep 11, 2019)

Rule of thumb, 15X diameter of boring bar for maximum depth/overhang. So a 1/2”bar can typically be used up to about 7-1/2” overhang. If you have good tool control and not too aggressive cutters, go another inch perhaps.

Reactions: Informative 3


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## TXMoon (Sep 11, 2019)

TimR said:


> Ok, couple things to consider.
> 1- bowl gouge best used for bowls where minimal overhang off the tool rest. Bowl gouge pretty aggressive cutter esp when it catches. Things get pretty dynamic.
> 2- as you start hanging over tool rest, vibration and cut control are at odds. The more you hang off the tool rest, the bigger diameter of boring bar needed to maintain control.
> 3- having a hollowing system helps maintain control so you can concentrate on making a lot of light cuts using small high speed steel or carbide cutters.
> ...


Digesting. I understand about hanging over the tool rest. I will research hollowing systems.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TXMoon (Sep 11, 2019)

TimR said:


> Rule of thumb, 15X diameter of boring bar for maximum depth/overhang. So a 1/2”bar can typically be used up to about 7-1/2” overhang. If you have good tool control and not too aggressive cutters, go another inch perhaps.


Would this be a carbide too?


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## TimR (Sep 11, 2019)

TXMoon said:


> Digesting. I understand about hanging over the tool rest. I will research hollowing systems.


 Folks will have all sorts of variants so it helps to narrow if we know how much willing to spend and size / model lathe.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## TimR (Sep 11, 2019)

TXMoon said:


> Would this be a carbide too?


Can be, doesn’t have to be. Cheapest hollowing cutters use high speed steel. 

Also, I should mention that hand held hollowers exist, but I’m not a fan of them.
This one is 37” long...I’m just not into this kind of hollowing, but it’s 3/4” diam so feasibly good to about 11” deep

Reactions: Informative 1


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## TXMoon (Sep 11, 2019)

I have these two tools and never use them. I stole the carbide tip off the crooked tool for my round scraper. The other scraper scares the Hell out of me. I tried using it once and it went to town on a piece of wood and it ended up looking like I used a chain saw to shape the piece. So until I can find further instruction they are just dust collectors.
I


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## TimR (Sep 11, 2019)

TXMoon said:


> I have these two tools and never use them. I stole the carbide tip off the crooked tool for my round scraper. The other scraper scares the Hell out of me. I tried using it once and it went to town on a piece of wood and it ended up looking like I used a chain saw to shape the piece. So until I can find further instruction they are just dust collectors.
> I View attachment 171710


These all use cupped carbide, which can be very aggressive if not tilted about 30-40 degrees. Never use these with them “flat”, which IS the way you normally use Easy Wood style cutters. They work more like scrapers, the cupped ones work more like a gouge. Think what happens when you get a catch with a gouge...normally you’re too “open” with flute just begging to take a big bite of wood.

Reactions: Thank You! 2 | Agree 3 | Informative 1


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## TXMoon (Sep 11, 2019)

TimR said:


> These all use cupped carbide, which can be very aggressive if not tilted about 30-40 degrees. Never use these with them “flat”, which IS the way you normally use Easy Wood style cutters. They work more like scrapers, the cupped ones work more like a gouge. Think what happens when you get a catch with a gouge...normally you’re too “open” with flute just begging to take a big bite of wood.


Right, with the cupped tool, it has a round bar where all the other have square bars. So it rotated all on it's own. I am learning how to use standard bowl gouges (and am loving them) so I am using the carbides more for what they are, scrapers. 
I think I'll put off hollowing vases and stuff for the future and keep focusing on bowls, and boxes.


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## TimR (Sep 11, 2019)

Sounds like a plan to get down other fundamentals before sticking a piece of iron down in the hole! 
Try using the round bar carbide tool at an angle like I showed. They have their place and when used correctly will mimic shear scraping, not scraping.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## B Rogers (Sep 11, 2019)

TimR said:


> These all use cupped carbide, which can be very aggressive if not tilted about 30-40 degrees. Never use these with them “flat”, which IS the way you normally use Easy Wood style cutters. They work more like scrapers, the cupped ones work more like a gouge. Think what happens when you get a catch with a gouge...normally you’re too “open” with flute just begging to take a big bite of wood.
> 
> View attachment 171712
> 
> View attachment 171713


That explains a lot. Thanks for the tips.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Tony (Sep 11, 2019)

Kevin, check out this video. Tod does an excellent job of showing how to use this tool. I worked with it awhile back, it's an incredible tool, I bought one and love it! I'm not suggesting you get one now, but keep it in mind when you get to that point.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## Mike Mills (Sep 11, 2019)

Stuart Batty has some very good fundamental videos here. He has some on tool overhang as well as bar diameter.
https://vimeo.com/woodturning/videos/sort:alphabetical/format:thumbnail

I personally don't try anything over about 5" deep. Per Stuart you need about 5" behind the tool rest for every inch over to maintain control. So for 7" deep you need 35" behind the too rest.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## woodman6415 (Sep 11, 2019)

I took a 3 day class with Trent Bosch last year on hollowing ... great class .. when it was done I bought his hollowing system ... I had been looking for one .. had tried several at AAW and swat symposiums and I personally like the Bosch system the best ... in October we have Mike Jacosky doing a 4 day class on hollowing.. I’ve signed up for all 4 days

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 1


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## TimR (Sep 11, 2019)

woodman6415 said:


> I took a 3 day class with Trent Bosch last year on hollowing ... great class .. when it was done I bought his hollowing system ... I had been looking for one .. had tried several at AAW and swat symposiums and I personally like the Bosch system the best ... in October we have Mike Jacosky doing a 4 day class on hollowing.. I’ve signed up for all 4 days


That sounds like a good demo!

Reactions: Like 1


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## barry richardson (Sep 11, 2019)

What diameter forstner bit are you using? If it is not bigger than the drill chick to allow clearance there are extensions out there that will get you as deep as you want to go. I like to drill to my final intended depth, then widen the cavity as needed with a bar with a 1/4" hss cutter, I have one angled and one straight, then clean up the inside with a round scraper cutter installed on a bar, will show some pics tomorrow if you need more explaination....

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## rocky1 (Sep 12, 2019)

Forstner Bit Extension - Come in a variety of lengths - 4, 6, 8, 10 inches. 

If you check wally world, in the craft section, they have some nifty flat bottomed glass inserts, that are about 8" deep x 1 1/4" diameter, cost you about a buck and a half as best I recall. Those too come in assorted lengths, but not as many choices there as the extensions.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TXMoon (Sep 12, 2019)

barry richardson said:


> What diameter forstner bit are you using? If it is not bigger than the drill chick to allow clearance there are extensions out there that will get you as deep as you want to go. I like to drill to my final intended depth, then widen the cavity as needed with a bar with a 1/4" hss cutter, I have one angled and one straight, then clean up the inside with a round scraper cutter installed on a bar, will show some pics tomorrow if you need more explaination....


The bits are 3/8" shank, and I saw those extensions last night and will pick up a set.


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## TXMoon (Sep 12, 2019)

rocky1 said:


> Forstner Bit Extension - Come in a variety of lengths - 4, 6, 8, 10 inches.
> 
> If you check wally world, in the craft section, they have some nifty flat bottomed glass inserts, that are about 8" deep x 1 1/4" diameter, cost you about a buck and a half as best I recall. Those too come in assorted lengths, but not as many choices there as the extensions.


I don't need anything fancy so just a cored out interior and then finish the top inch or two. I like the idea of the glass inserts.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Lou Currier (Sep 12, 2019)

A steady rest like these can come in handy.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## rocky1 (Sep 13, 2019)

TXMoon said:


> I don't need anything fancy so just a cored out interior and then finish the top inch or two. I like the idea of the glass inserts.




I've never been firmly convinced you could seal the wood tight enough to use it for live flowers, for very long. The glass insert opens that door. 


Was looking for other goodies when I stumbled upon them, and the little light bulb went on. Works great, slides right in, just enough wiggle to ease it in and out. Measured depth and taped shaft on extension and bit to proper length. Greatly simplified vase turning.

Reactions: Like 1


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## duncsuss (Sep 14, 2019)

TXMoon said:


> ... I am using the carbides more for what they are, scrapers ...


BZZZZZZZZT!!!!! This is not 100% true.

*Flat* carbides are scrapers. The one in your photo is a *cupped* carbide bit, and that is a cutter, not a scraper. For a really good demonstration of how to safely and effectively use this type of tool, watch this video by John Lucas:

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 3


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## gman2431 (Sep 14, 2019)

It's amazing how much safer the cup carbide are compared to flat ones when used properly. You can basically "turn on and off" the cut. I've been running the wheels off the ones tim makes

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## TimR (Sep 14, 2019)

gman2431 said:


> It's amazing how much safer the cup carbide are compared to flat ones when used properly. You can basically "turn on and off" the cut. I've been running the wheels off the ones tim makes


Glad to see you’re getting a lot of mileage from them Cody. Cutters probably still holding up without replacements needed, yes? 
I use my original ugly hook tool with cupped carbide quite often, the top of the acorn I posted in the threading jig post had its undercut next to the thread cut with it as well as rest of hollowed out area in the top. I’ve not replaced a cutter in over 5-6 years.

Reactions: Like 1


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## gman2431 (Sep 14, 2019)

TimR said:


> Glad to see you’re getting a lot of mileage from them Cody. Cutters probably still holding up without replacements needed, yes?
> I use my original ugly hook tool with cupped carbide quite often, the top of the acorn I posted in the threading jig post had its undercut next to the thread cut with it as well as rest of hollowed out area in the top. I’ve not replaced a cutter in over 5-6 years.


I think I've only turned one cutter so far. Still have some rotation left even before thinking about changing it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## DKMD (Sep 14, 2019)

If you’re just drilling for an insert, the forstner extensions should do the trick. 

If you’re looking to hollow, you might google ‘Oland’ tools... they’re pretty simple and cheap to make using the small HSS cutters available from just about everywhere.

Reactions: Informative 1


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