# My Guitar....now the work begins!



## FLQuacker (Aug 5, 2018)

Well I got the (2) 7*20 halves glued up.

Did a bunch of sanding, then let the machine do all the work.

Comes in at 6.7 lbs.

52 Tele design...but I deleted the vectors for the truss rod adjustment between the pocket and neck pup. Replacement necks are at the head anyway.

Will use a toploader bridge.

The profile cut was horrid. Instead of nice curves there were hundreds of vector points, which I should have cleaned up in the curves before I cut it. Profile is fine but it's hard on the machine hitting that many points, and sounds awful.

I have a few short clips of the cut progress if anyone is interested.

Overall, came out in spec. 

Now to work on finishing the body.

Reactions: EyeCandy! 3 | Way Cool 2


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## barry richardson (Aug 5, 2018)

You n your robot done good I think a cherry body is gonna be sharp......, cherry neck too?

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## DKMD (Aug 5, 2018)

That’s going to be beautiful!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## FLQuacker (Aug 5, 2018)

@barry richardson

Probably a mid grade maple with a rosewood fretboard. That hopefully tames it down some. Traditional tele sound really aint my thing.

Probably some low output Seymour Duncans. I put some Hotrodded Humbuckers in an old Korean Epi we got and it sounds really sweet. Organic...but thats a LP design

We'll see, no big expectations.


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## FLQuacker (Aug 6, 2018)

Did some contour shaping.

Forearm and belly side....suttle...masculine but sexy :)


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## FLQuacker (Aug 6, 2018)

A coat of oil....that's cool!

Reactions: Like 1 | EyeCandy! 8


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## Blueglass (Aug 6, 2018)

I love it! If you get to making your own necks I like the spoke wheel at the heel end of the truss rod because it leaves of wood at the headstock end which is a weak point anyway. I don't think it is a huge deal but Itry to think about every little thing.

Reactions: Like 1


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## FLQuacker (Aug 6, 2018)

The neck deal...LOL, you guys are good!


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## Arn213 (Aug 6, 2018)

Blueglass said:


> I love it! If you get to making your own necks I like the spoke wheel at the heel end of the truss rod because it leaves of wood at the headstock end which is a weak point anyway. I don't think it is a huge deal but Itry to think about every little thing.


 
I use to think the same as well, that too much mass is taken away from the headstock for the truss rod adjustment at this area which made this area weak-
which is true for a 14-17 degree headstock as you end up with a fork, but not for a bolt- on with a drop down headstock. See photo section of heel adjust and headstock adjust. The mass at the headstock to nut transition is the same- you can disregard the bullet style nut fitting cap because you can remove that and put a standard nut fitting at that end of it, instead of the bullet style...


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## Arn213 (Aug 6, 2018)

The "spoke-wheel" fitting adjustment I do prefer as well @Blueglass because it gives you an ease of access that is within immediate reach compare to headstock adjust location. But, does have a modern look. Although, if you drill the channel access on the body heel of this tele, it should give you slack to remove the pickguard and slide the tool to adjust it. More traditional way because it is hidden, but a pita still as you need to remove the pickguard.


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## FLQuacker (Aug 6, 2018)

That is dandy. Looks vintage.

I already found a snafu in my cut...somehow after checking 25 times, I left the control cavity too shallow. Went with the same depth as the bridge pup pocket (.850) EZ fix with a forstner bit and drill press, need another .650 The bright side is i dont have a hole in the back of the quitar......yet!


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## Arn213 (Aug 6, 2018)

FLQuacker said:


> That is dandy. Looks vintage.
> 
> I already found a snafu in my cut...somehow after checking 25 times, I left the control cavity too shallow. Went with the same depth as the bridge pup pocket (.850) EZ fix with a forstner bit and drill press, need another .650 The bright side is i dont have a hole in the back of the quitar......yet!



It did appear shallow, but I thought it might just be the angle/photo distortion. I need to double check, but the control cavity is at least 1-1/2" deep (leaves 1/4" thickness for a 1-3/4" thick body) as most switches are 1-3/8" deep.

If you need some hard dimensions, let me know and will post it for you.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## Blueglass (Aug 7, 2018)

For me it is not hidden I just put the notch in the end of the neck. At this point I'm just building for me so practicality beats aesthetics. I do an angled headstock with a scarf joint. I never cared for the Fender way of doing it, I especially don't like string retainers although I know staggered tuning machines get around that. I grew up mainly on Gibson style but really like things about Fender so I steal from each, ha ha.


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## Arn213 (Aug 7, 2018)

Just gave Wayne some visual reference and some options as he is still at the earlier stage. I forgotten Les that you did a scarf joint and a 13 degree angled headstock. YES, I agree with the headstock that has a steep 14-17 degree angle becomes very weak as there is only a small amount of mass between the headstock neck shaft transition/fault line grain direction at it flows through the headstock area/truss rod access weakens the headstock transition. I also in agreement that the nut adjustment should be at the butt end of the neck. Makes sense to me in 3 ways, plus the ease of access when you want to adjust the neck.





I also am in agreement that I don’t care for string trees on a drop down headstock. I prefer staggered tuning heads so the break angle is greater where the string meets the nut and keeps the strings from popping off the nut. 

A luthier I know figured out a way from many years building on 6 in line tuner heads with the standard drop done- he slightly angled the headstock (don’t know how much, but a subtle degree) and according to him, it yields results that he can vouch for: a). keeps the neck from pulling the face direction due to string tension, b). stays in tune much better, c). keeps the strings from popping off the nut, d). staggered tuners need not apply. He wanted the drop down to look familiar for traditional S & T style players and subtle enough angle to not make it foreign to users and to not detach from the original intent of the headstock detail.

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## FLQuacker (Aug 7, 2018)

@Arn213

Good info...yes, the depth dimension I have is 1.5". I have the control plate ordered and will wait to meaaure it before I cut deeper.

On a neck note.....it just hit me this morning I may already have one! A rather nostalgic one at that.

The 1st electric combo we bought my son, think mid 90's. (Lotus)

That would be neat

From measurements I get without taking it off....the bolt on pattern is 1.5 x 2. Width at the heel is around 55 mm...so far so good. Nut width is about 42mm

Looks standard

I'd have a luthier look it over and redo it of course....1 piece maple with a rosewood board ???


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## Arn213 (Aug 7, 2018)

FLQuacker said:


> @Arn213
> 
> Good info...yes, the depth dimension I have is 1.5". I have the control plate ordered and will wait to meaaure it before I cut deeper.
> 
> ...



The depth is perfect at 1-1/2”.

Standard bolt-on neck pocket is 3” long, 2-3/16” wide and 5/8” tall.

FYI......there is a difference in the pocket detail in a tele and a strat. A tele has a “square pocket” (no curvature) and a strat has a “round pocket” (there is a slight curvature at the end of the heel pocket side wall). That figures in when you fabricate your neck. Having said that though, which I have done- if you don’t mind the “inside” corner gaps, you can mix it. But, if you want to do it right, match the detail. Now, it seems you want to use your son’s strat neck if I am reading it correctly? By all means as a “trial” type of thing, do it. Assemble everything and see where the weight falls and more importantly how the cherry body sounds with strat maple/rosewood fretboard. Just keep in mind what I told you about the tele having a squared pocket and the strat with a rounded pocket- expect to have an inside gap. Let us call that as experiment #1. I just pulled these off my shelf- see attachment so you can see what the end of the heel looks like between a tele (square heel) and a strat (curved heel).





If experiment #1 doesn’t work- importantly whether the maple neck wood/rosewood fretboard material will sound with the cherry body. I have an inkling that this combo might be a hair too bright and you might have that “shrill” factor (if the neck shaft is hard maple/quarter sawn and the rosewood fretboard is dense and quarter sawn). So, it is a wise and inexpensive way to test that combo with the already made neck. Experiment #2 is building a neck wood material that will sound properly with your cherry body.

Les mentioned it earlier, and it’s is probably wise to have all the parts such as hardware, etc. in hand so this way you have everything and you can dry fit, etc...

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Arn213 (Aug 7, 2018)

By the way if you end up with experiment #2 in which you have to fabricate a neck. Ask your son what neck he likes that is comfortable that he uses and plays with. You can then take those dimensions and use a “contour gauge” in the 1st fret and the 12th fret for an estimated profile. Please “do not” make a standard vintage nut which is 1.625”. It is way too narrow especially if you have big hands as it is challenging to do chords at the 1st fret to 2nd fret. I am imagining you want this to be “custom fit” as possible for your son so he can vibe with it.

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## kweinert (Aug 7, 2018)

You folks are talking a foreign language - but I'm having fun following along.

The body looks really nice and it's just damn interesting to see someone else demonstrate what they know and learn new stuff whilst doing it.

Keep it up - I've got some popcorn gettin' fluffy as we speak.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## FLQuacker (Aug 7, 2018)

@kweinert 

This is an exercise in learning for me with input from some amazing builders!

@Arn213 

I'm on the path of trying that neck. I see what you mention about heel radius. Strat in a Tele pocket but not vice versa 

It's a 22 fret neck so the fretboard hangover will cover the heels radiused curve (gap) against the pocket.

I do need to take some measurements to get an idea of it's (neck) radius.

I'm am really digging this color combo....red/brown tortoise shell pickguard :)

Reactions: EyeCandy! 2 | Way Cool 1


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## Arn213 (Aug 7, 2018)

FLQuacker said:


> @kweinert
> 
> This is an exercise in learning for me with input from some amazing builders!
> 
> ...



That is pretty nice combo!

The 22 fretboard with the hangover will be fine and will clear the pickguard.

You need a radius gauge for the top of the fretboard- usually strats and tele are 7.25” radius (vintage specs.) or 9.5” radius. Neck shaft profile which is the underside of the neck, you need a profile gauge for that. They cost as low as $ 15.

Do you know off hand what is the weight so far with what you have? Just trying to get you a ballpark what the weight might be at this stage and possibly what the finish weight might be. You are probably in the neighborhood of 8.7 pounds or so about now.


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## FLQuacker (Aug 7, 2018)

The fretboard looks and feels like my MIM Strat. So I'd guess 7 1/4.

**Weights wise. Body is 6.7 lbs and the neck with tuners is 1 lb 10 oz. **

(But I took a few ounces off with contours, haven't reweighed it)

If anything, I could use that neck (all maple) . I've never really liked the tone of it anyway. Put this one on IT. Maybe that would fix 2 guitars :)

But now I've become to liking that rosewood against that cherry. We'll see.......


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## Arn213 (Aug 7, 2018)

FLQuacker said:


> The fretboard looks and feels like my MIM Strat. So I'd guess 7 1/4.
> 
> **Weights wise. Body is 6.7 lbs and the neck with tuners is 1 lb 10 oz. **
> 
> ...



Wayne, here is a link where you can print out a radius guide. You then cut it and transfer it to a cardboard or something sturdy:
http://pickguardian.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Pickguardian-Neck-Radius-Gauges.pdf

Record the numbers of the blank and the weight of the body now and every other piece associated with your build. This way you have a gauge of the finished weight as a reference so that will help you change based on the info. for future builds.

You are probably at 8 pounds now. With the other components remaining, you probably will incur another 2 pounds or so. It is on the heavy end for a tele, but it is still manageable. The sound result is what counts......

Keep going.....

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## FLQuacker (Aug 8, 2018)

Per Arn213's marching orders....

Got some parts today. Got the control cavity depth right.

Bridge (toploader) lays up good, but when I lay in the neck I could eyeball that something wasn't right. No way the string would lay along the frets right. From the nut to the break point on the saddle I could tell the strings would hit down around the heel.

Hhmmm. Neck pocket is right...gotta be the neck. Yep, top of fretboard to flat back should be 25mm...I got almost 28mm. Quick run thru the joiner...done deal.

I got a 1/16 above the pickguard from the bottom of the fretboard overhang.

Movn on....my son says this might be a rockabilly bada$$. I just hope it tunes:)

Reactions: Way Cool 1


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## Arn213 (Aug 8, 2018)

Damn Wayne, are you fast tracking this build? Sure like it. Way to recover  and take the bull by the horns. You are doing great!

I am glad you got the brass saddles.

If you don’t want to mess with the electronic assembly, 3 way switch, pots capacitors individually- you can pick them up on line pre-assembled......it all depends on your patience.

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## FLQuacker (Aug 8, 2018)

Fender fully loaded control by 8p today!

Very little patience :)

Tomorrow I'll cut the input jack hole and drill the wire paths.

AND...my Seymour Duncan Vintage broadcaster set should arrive tomorrow.

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## Arn213 (Aug 8, 2018)

Later on before you install the electronic and pickups- make sure you put copper shielding on the cavities to reduce hums and interference. There is also shielding paint as an option. Here is a link:
https://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Onli..._Electronics_and_Wiring/Guitar_Shielding.html

Make sure you ground the bridge plate (ground wire comes up through the hole under the bridge plate) .

Look at this for reference:
https://p4.zdassets.com/hc/theme_assets/549136/200076499/010-0202C_SISD.pdf

Keep track of the weight and record it as you add components.

Make sure you have a set of strings- .009 sets or .010 sets OR what ever your son uses. Do you remember off hand what the e string treble string thickness is that you took off the Lotus strat- .009 or .010?

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## FLQuacker (Aug 8, 2018)

Ordered the sheilding kit yesterday...

He probably had 10's, cause he always hated our guitars with lites.

I'm gonna have to get a new nut installed and a refret before any serious playing anyway.

Final weight of the body alone is 6 lbs 5 oz


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## Arn213 (Aug 8, 2018)

FLQuacker said:


> Ordered the sheilding kit yesterday...
> 
> He probably had 10's, cause he always hated our guitars with lites.
> 
> ...



Perfect. 10’s 

If you are in a hurry, you can get Tusq nut that is slotted for a Fender or you can get something else like other material- there is also bone, which I have on a 1/4 of mine.

Why do you think it needs a refret? Is there a lot of wear on the fret wire? A refret will cost you between $ 200 to north of $ 400. You can buy a new after market neck around $ 200 with a sealer on it, fretwire installed; you will need to level and dress up the frets though.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## FLQuacker (Aug 8, 2018)

Just a nut...the frets aren't bad.


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## Arn213 (Aug 8, 2018)

The frets looks like they are in excellent shape. Do they feel sharp at the ends (check the edges of the fretwire)? If they are portruding out a bit, that is called a fret sprout. That happens when the fretboard is dehydrated (the fretboard shrinks). If it is not that aparent, you can leave it alone and live with it. You can see if you can hydrate it by introducing a humidifier or take it to the bathroom when you bath (no Wayne, not with you in the shower- outside the shower). Sometimes that might be enough to not to have to go through the trouble of putting a tool (fret end dressing file) to fix it.

What is wrong with the nut that you think they need to be replaced?

Here is a link: http://www.graphtech.com/news-and-c...ech-workshop-how-to-install-a-pre-slotted-nut

You need to actually check to see if the fretboard/neck is flat and that it does not have a “bow” (front or back bow) and check to see if the frets are level. You need a straight edge for this. You might need to make a truss rod adjustment.

Here are some links:

Part 1: 





Part 2:


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## FLQuacker (Aug 8, 2018)

Well ya know....now that I think about it. Right after we got that guitar he got into the acoustic mode with Jack Johnson and Donovan Frankenreiter.

I've been treating the fretboard with conditioner...looks a lot better.

Arn, I really appreciate your help and input.


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## Arn213 (Aug 8, 2018)

Yes, sir! Anytime.....

For the rosewood fretboard, use a fine soft toothbrush and work across the width to clean dirt and grime sitting in the inside corners. Then vacuum the fretboard. Use a fretboard conditioner and then use another toothbrush to clean. Then wipe it down with a soft cloth. Then seal it with furniture polish and wipe it down quickly. The steel wool at 0000 can get hairy and messy. Found the toothbrush to be the best for me atleast.

My go too for cleaning guitars surface is “Preservation Polish”. I have actually used lemon Pledge- I spray it directly to a cloth though and wipe it on the rosewood fretboard and then get a dry cloth (micro suede) to wipe it down. I found out from the 3rd biggest company that they use this for final wipe down, they use combination pledge and linseed oil for the rosewood fretboards. But, they do sell bottled conditioner, cleaner and polish. Just stay from anything that has silicone base.

Jack Johnson fan too- my wife got me into it. Your son has great taste!

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## Blueglass (Aug 9, 2018)

@Arn213 I see Wayne is not doing string through body but it reminded me do you have any tricks for getting the through holes straight? That is one of my disappointments with my first build.


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## Arn213 (Aug 9, 2018)

Blueglass said:


> @Arn213 I see Wayne is not doing string through body but it reminded me do you have any tricks for getting the through holes straight? That is one of my disappointments with my first build.



Wayne opted for a top loader bridge. I don’t have concrete stats that studies the difference between the advantages or disadvantages of string through ferrule versus non string through ferrule/top loader application. My logic is telling me that one way the string vibration is making contact with the body wood, then the metal. The second is very direct, shorter, no wood and vibration transferring through the metal. My theory is that they both impact the frequency depending what you are after.......bright vs. brighter, etc.

The ferrules comes in 2 ways- flush inset (no rim exposed) and semi-flush inset (the top rim is exposed and surface mounted partially).

Make all your surface routes first, then cut the the body wood to shape. They sell “ferrule guide templates” on line made out of some form of metal.......you can always custom make one if you have the tools. Downside of the ferrule guide template is that it does not have a hold down to keep it from wandering off when drilling. You better off making a cradle jig, going width wise the lower bout, then mounting the ferrule template flush on the surface of the rail. Adjust the drill height to compensate for this. You clamp the jig to the body and drill away.

Your other option is to purchase a tone block that gets recessed/routed in the rear. That is one piece with the ferrule holes drilled in.


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## Blueglass (Aug 9, 2018)

THe last time I screwed the bridge down and used that as a guide from the top but didn't quite go all the way through and then tried toline up the dimple with straight lines. I used a drill press but the bits must still wander that much.


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## Arn213 (Aug 9, 2018)

Blueglass said:


> THe last time I screwed the bridge down and used that as a guide from the top but didn't quite go all the way through and then tried toline up the dimple with straight lines. I used a drill press but the bits must still wander that much.



It has it’s disadvantages. The most logical way and the most that makes sense is if you can find someone to mill a larger metal rectangular surface with the ferrule holes at one end and 2 screw holes above that where the bridge pickup is located on the body; you can then screw the template into the location of the bridge cavity to hold the template down, then drilling your ferrules, before you route for the bridge pick-up.

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## Arn213 (Aug 9, 2018)

@Blueglass and @FLQuacker......the not so fun part is making templates and jigs to make things flow better and get the job faster. Your other option is to learn how to do CAD and CNC which entails other sets of work, set-up cost, machinery, software, other associated cost related items, etc. Makes only sense $$$ wise if you are committed and invested on making a bulk amount of guitars. If it is just hobby related, it is just grinding it out and work with what you have and having time and a lot of patience.

If anybody wants to jump into building one, the best path is to buy parts and assemble the components together. That is always a good introduction and you will either “catch the bug” or make it a one or 2 time deal.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Blueglass (Aug 9, 2018)

I enjoy making jigs and templates, I don't havethe tools to do it all butI get closer all the time.


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## Arn213 (Aug 9, 2018)

That is great Les. Some folks don’t enjoy the prep work similar to roles people have in what happens in a commercial kitchen.

I actually enjoy the facet part of “designing” much, much more. Coming up with ideas, drawing it up, refining it, etc. That is much more fun and rewarding for me.

I hope Wayne is enjoying this journey with his tele build for his son......


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## Blueglass (Aug 9, 2018)

Arn213 said:


> That is great Les. Some folks don’t enjoy the prep work similar to roles people have in what happens in a commercial kitchen.
> 
> I actually enjoy the facet part of “designing” much, much more. Coming up with ideas, drawing it up, refining it, etc. That is much more fun and rewarding for me.
> 
> I hope Wayne is enjoying this journey with his tele build for his son......



I've started a semi hollow of my own shape that I am keeping somewhat under wraps, single cut. Somewhat like a LP crashed with a Wandre and maybe a Novak?

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## FLQuacker (Aug 9, 2018)

Wayne is definitely enjoying this :)

Les, @Arn213 is right...my CNC works off a zero point that never moves when doing the cut profiles, depth cuts and drilling. "IF" the drawing that is used is correct, when I run the cut files that was created, everything "should" be a dead nuts replication of the drawing, and actual guitar.

I should be able to help with building templates if you ever need something, a template for the bridge holes would be easy, like ARN said, it could just be referenced to other points on the body.

The bridge lined up perfect on the predrilled holes. I'm tearing the house apart now looking for a set of strings to try and line the neck up. I don't want to fight with short strings from another guitar here.

Regarding the toploader...I've done some investigating :)

The '59 used a toploader, there was no through body holes. but Fender went back to the string through in '60. Early 60's you could find them mix matched. Bridge with topload and ran string through body. Early '59, you could find some with holes in body for string through, but using a toploader bridge.

Interesting item is, Jimmy Page used one of the toploaders. Stairway to Heaven....toploader. (from what I've read)

Maple neck and a rosewood fretboard.

https://www.fender.com/articles/gea...al-mystery-of-jimmy-page-s-painted-telecaster

A closeup of the bridge...'68 LZ Live Dazed and Confused

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Arn213 (Aug 9, 2018)

FLQuacker said:


> Wayne is definitely enjoying this :)
> 
> Les, @Arn213 is right...my CNC works off a zero point that never moves when doing the cut profiles, depth cuts and drilling. "IF" the drawing that is used is correct, when I run the cut files that was created, everything "should" be a dead nuts replication of the drawing, and actual guitar.
> 
> ...



Les- there you go man, Wayne is up to the task! Great that you guys both live in the same state!

Wayne, you only need the bass e string and the treble e string to line it up so you have a reference point- thick to thin gauge. That is why I asked what the gauges are from the Lotus because most nut is cut/slotted to accept a small range of gauge thickness. I’ll give you an example if the nut was originally slotted to accept .010 sets and you used .008, the slots might be a hair bigger and could pose tuning problems. If you go reverse, you will have to rework the slots to accept bigger gauge string sets to get the proper break angle and so that it doesn’t pop out of the nut slot.

I know Jimmy Page used a tele on occasion with Led Zep- he used the tele more when he was with the Yardbirds. I only saw Jimmy use the double neck for Stairway which is the iconic Gibson* EDS-1275. I am trying to get a grip on this- are you saying on the stop tail bridge with the saddle it was set up as top loader/top loading? This method has actually come to a resurgence- I believe Billy for ZZ Top uses this with a stop tail bridge/saddle combo on a Gibson*. Does it improve tone? Controversy as we know it. I do know this, it makes the string “slinkier” (reduced string tension) and makes it much more easier to bend......allows shallower break angle when the string meets the saddle.

Here is the difference between the top loading the strings (top photo) and traditional (bottom pic):









*EDIT: okay, I see what you mean by the photo and wasn’t sure if it was the tele or the double neck or an LP you were talking about. I was referring to “top wrapping” the strings on a stop tail/bridge application.....my bad.


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## Arn213 (Aug 9, 2018)

Wayne, should there be a need that the existing nut needs replacement, this is a fairly good guide below on the nut and the slotting procedure. The rule of thumb is the fretboard radius has to match the radius of the new nut- if the fretboard radius is 9.25, the nut also has to be 9.25. You want the bottom shelf of the nut to be perpendicular to the back end of the nut (side towards the first fret). It has to be perfectly flat including any adjoining areas that will sit on top of it and butted up against it- that is the top side of the neck and the top end of the fretboard. One more- some luthier do not put glue on the nut and let forward pressure from the string tension do the work........others put a dab of glue (titebond or cyano). 

Go measure what the existing bridge if you need replacement and then shop around to find the closes match- some are standard and ready to go, others needs some fine tuning and there are blanks where you have to do all the work.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## FLQuacker (Aug 9, 2018)

Timely info....

Well I went ahead and mounted the neck. Not sure what my reservations were. This one's a takeoff so where it is, is where it is....predrilled. Took e's off a junk 335 copy. I guess not bad. Had to hold hi e in the slot....to short to wrap

Now I need to relax and recoup....and get a work flow going. Still gotta drill the wire paths and input jack.


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## Arn213 (Aug 9, 2018)

FLQuacker said:


> Timely info....
> 
> Well I went ahead and mounted the neck. Not sure what my reservations were. This one's a takeoff so where it is, is where it is....predrilled. Took e's off a junk 335 copy. I guess not bad. Had to hold hi e in the slot....to short to wrap
> 
> ...



By the way, those frets are in excellent shape- there are barely any signs of wear on them and looks like the guitar was barely played!

When you get a chance when the neck is attached- sight the neck (by looking at the headstock end and looking at it sides (you need strings for this) to see if you have a front bow or a back bow. Then double check it and put a straight edge up against the length of the fretboard (on center). If it is not straight, you will need to make adjustment on the truss rod. Do not make more than 1/8 of a turn in a 24 hour period. You want that fine adjustment to acclimate to your environment and not stress the wood out by forcing too much of a turn/adjustment- it can also “delaminate” the finish. You might need another slight adjustment to get the neck to be flat- again do it incrementally and spaced the turn within 24 hours per.

Here is a link: https://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Onli...e_nervous_about_adjusting_that_truss_rod.html


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## Arn213 (Aug 9, 2018)

I dug this out and if you want to invest on a hard copy about guitar maintence, this is my go to- I’ve had it for over 20 plus years (cost $ 24.95 back then):

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## FLQuacker (Aug 9, 2018)

Neck is straight as an arrow unloaded....I imagine it'll need adjustment strung.

Big brown was good today, think I got everything but the strap pins.

The pickguards gonna need a little sanding around the control plate radius. Bout an 1/8th.

Coming along.

Kid was hoping it'd be done by Saturday, that aint in the cards. His band is playing a little swanky Tallahassee joint named 5th and Thomas. Waylon's boy played there a few weeks ago.....and no we won't get into any comparisons, with Waylon and his offspring that is :)

Reactions: Like 2 | EyeCandy! 1


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## FLQuacker (Aug 9, 2018)

Nut is toast....these I think are 9's, maybe 10's...but Stevie Ray's cables wouldn't fill these slots


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## Arn213 (Aug 9, 2018)

FLQuacker said:


> Neck is straight as an arrow unloaded....I imagine it'll need adjustment strung.
> 
> Big brown was good today, think I got everything but the strap pins.
> 
> ...



Alright, alright, alright.......it is shaping up. SD broadcaster pickup approved  

If he wants it Saturday and you need the strap pins, you can always “borrow” it from the orphan guitar, the Lotus.

I am very happy for you though that the neck is “straight as an arrow”- it was the biggest thing worrying me. 

Yes, we will make the other necessary set up to fine tune and get the proper “neck relief” and set up intonation. Going to need some tools for that and a tuner.

Can you get a caliper and just measure the string gauge for me on the 6th string?. .042 are from .009 sets, .046 are from .010 sets, .048 are from .011 sets. Those existing slots looks too wide, too deep and looks flat almost all the way through. Typically, when you slot for the strings, you want the string diameter to rest halfway down and hallway up- ofcourse with the proper break angle towards the front of the headstock.

Can I be a pain in your arse again and give me the total weight of the guitar when you have all the parts (don’t have to be assembled and throw everything’s down in the scale)? Record the number if you can. Do the same for the weight of the neck with the tuners. Record the weight. Do the same thing and group the pickups, hardware, the electronic control, neck plate, pickguard, bridge/saddles. Record the weight. I know I sound like a broken record, but these data will help you assess the final weight on the next build, etc. Trust me on this. See, you want to keep the guitar as light as possible and see where you can shave off weight without compromising integrity/quality. You want to keep record of component weights. I’ll give you an example. Some tele bridge is as light as 3 ounces and some gets heavier towards the 8 ounce mark. That goes with most hardware. The wood specie gets a little bit more tricky.......an example for a neck, say a soft maple would be a little lighter than hard maple.......etc., etc., etc.


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## FLQuacker (Aug 9, 2018)

Right now I'm at 9 lbs. I'll loose a few ounces on the input jack hole drill.

What sorta worries me now is the height I'm having to run the saddles...just seems extreme to me.

Only way to compensate would be to shave the neck again...I still could go a tenth on it. I'm not gonna mess with the body. I know it's at 5/8 deep. 

Gotta run to the store for strings latter.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Arn213 (Aug 9, 2018)

^^^^^that appears really high and it looks like it will have a high action. The height screws is probably as high it will go? Is it up all the way because the low E string is touching the the fretwire in the first or 12th fretwire, etc. or are you getting a buzz if it the height screws are set too low? What happens when you bring that saddle down (e/a saddle)- what does it touch?

The body blank is 1-3/4”? The pocket is 5/8” tall? The guitar neck maple shaft portion at the heel is 3/4”? What is the dimension of the rosewood- thickness towards the top of the headstock?

I just can’t see the whole picture from the 1st, 12th as far as the spacing between the underside of the string and the top of the fretwire.

You might need to possibly put a “narrow shim” at the back side of the neck pocket to adjust the neck pitch/get a forward angle break (but you mention that the neck is straight as an arrow). Some old school way is the bridge gets shimmed at the back end (old nickels). Pick your poison kind of thing. The old nut could be a possible culprit. Again, I can’t assess it as I don’t have the guitar in front of me.

Here is a reference:


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## Blueglass (Aug 9, 2018)

Step back and get a pic from further back capturing nut to bridge from the same angle.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Arn213 (Aug 9, 2018)

Something I did notice that the fretboard appears thicker than the normal .250”- you can see it on the close up of the nut/headstock/shelf scoop transition.....not unless it is camera distortion. Appears that the fretboard has a 12” or 16” radius.


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## FLQuacker (Aug 9, 2018)

Like this Pic, Les?

The nut is a lot of problem ....these are 10-46 strings.

I got the saddles lowered to about 1/2 the barrel over the tray.

Arn, when I put the micron on it, it is .25 at the edge.

Really not anything left I can do on the setup before the nut is replaced.

Got other things left to do on it anyway.

The pic looking up the neck makes it look like the height over the body is huge...it really isnt. Theres just enough clearance for the pickguard under the 22 fret overhang and about 1/16 gap.


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## FLQuacker (Aug 9, 2018)

Well I don't think it will be completely dead plugged in


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## Arn213 (Aug 9, 2018)

It plays atleast. Hopefully Les will comment. Just quickly, the barrels are typically set up where it follows the radius of the fingerboard- so there is an “inferred curvature” in which it will start low at the E/A barrel, then have the highest arc in the middle D/G and then curve back down again at the B/E barrel. Kind of need to know the radius of the fretboard to do that or you can eye ball it from the rear.

For now, set the height screws low-mid and look where the the string heights are at the 17 fret wire (measure the distance between the bottom of the strings and the top of the 17th fret)- assuming the fretboard is 9.25”-12” radius: 4/64” string height at the bass side, 4/64” at the treble side. Trying to get an average action so it is playable without the buzz or rattling- adjust as required. Will need to do final check anyway to intonate later so it stays in tune and prior that we need to stretch the strings as they are new.

See example below and notice the low to mid arc and low again on the barrels:





******Set-up:
*
*https://support.fender.com/hc/en-us/articles/214343803-How-do-I-set-up-my-Telecaster-guitar-properly-*
*

*******Intonation*******:
*
*https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/How_to_Intonate_a_Three_Saddle_Tele*

Reactions: Like 1


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## FLQuacker (Aug 9, 2018)

It plays well like its set up, decent action height and tunes well, no buzz...I cant go any farther until I figure out why the saddles are too high to achieve that. I cant even use the bridge cover its so high. The nut is 1 of the issues, being so deep it creates a very low neck angle....and probably when I ran the neck thru the jointer I added to it. So here's the plan...I'm gonna shim the front of the neck pocket to increase the neck angle....then I should be able to lower the saddles. That combined with a new nut should fix my problem. Then I can move forward with the setup. 

I've got a date with somebody way up, and way in the woods for supper tomorrow, and gotta get gone by 230p

But I hope to be in a spot where all's left is soldering in the pups, Ill do that where I'm headed for a few days, and there's a nut standing in the corner if I just have to....oh shoot, shielding hasnt shown up yet!


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## Arn213 (Aug 10, 2018)

Sounds like a good plan. Definitely get a new nut. Check the shim location whether it will happen in the front or the back end- usually it is at the back end of the heel pocket towards the bridge (high end part of the shim) and in some instances, it might need to be the front. The neck angle for a bolt-on is typically zero to five degrees.

You want to do it right, so you need to create a “full shim” that is shape like a “wedge” that is taller at the one end and tapers to zero at the other end out of maple material (same material as the neck shaft wood) that will cover the entire area of the heel/pocket. Don’t use plastic, metal or pop sickle stick material (it is too soft). You can’t just use a sliver strip of wood to partially “jack up” the one end as you will end up with gap or “daylight” between the underside of the heel and the top side of the neck (for one the neck heel is typically unfinished) and the pressure from the screws will eventually warp the neck in the course of time, hence you need to make a full shelf shim wedge to make that area more sound. 

Start with a maple piece about .060” and shape it into a wedge (sandpaper and belt sander). You need to have super glue and drop it in the areas where the 4 screw holes will be located on the maple wedge- you need to use super glue to reinforce that area when you punch out the holes. Don’t glue the shim and just drop it in the heel.


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## Blueglass (Aug 10, 2018)

Was hoping for from the side. How does it look at the neck joint area. From what I can see Arn is probably right about the fingerboard being thicker than average adding more height to the neck.


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## Blueglass (Aug 10, 2018)

I would think a shim would have to be in the pocket reversed to fix that issue. I'm thinking it is going to come down to another.


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## Arn213 (Aug 10, 2018)

He’ll have time to ponder as from what he said he will not get to working on it till this afternoon.

He knows he has to install a new nut as the old one was not slotted properly.

I did post the question about the fingerboard being thick (it appears to be that there is barely any radius on the fingerboard as the side edge reads as being fuller)- he confirmed that it is .25”. He also confirmed that the neck pocket is 5/8” tall. The body thickness earlier on he was building it at 1.75” (he routed 1-1/2” for the control cavity). The only unanswered question is the thickness of the maple at the heel- would like to know the dimensions on that from the underside of the maple heel to the top of the maple (less the rosewood thickness).

When I had him check the neck, he said, “the neck is straight as an arrow loaded” (it could change a hair when he mounts it and when he has it string loaded). So hopefully he should not to have to opt for a shim as it will only raise the string plane that much higher the way he has the bridge height screws at max.

From what I can decipher on the photo’s there seems to be a “hair more elevation” at the guitar neck heel area. Something strange is definitely going on in there. I know I mentioned it (he did too) about possibly shaving some off the neck heel and not off the body pocket. That should drop the elevation/string plane and be able to lower the height screws at the bridge at normal range.

Hoping he will take a photo from the side as you mentioned. I like to see a close up shot from the side (cut away side) of the neck attachment and a side edge close up taken at the non-cutaway side with the view of the end of the fretboard where it meets the top surface of the guitar body.

At the moment I am out of ideas..........


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## barry richardson (Aug 10, 2018)

Great stuff guys, I'm really enjoying this thread!


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## FLQuacker (Aug 10, 2018)

Where's the happy emoji?

Planning the neck I must have gotten a ever so slight angle built in the heel. Mounted it prob was a -1 angle....I shimed the pocket and I think I've corrected my problem. Saddles drop to an expected height and has great action.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Arn213 (Aug 10, 2018)

.........now you just have to intonate it

Reactions: Like 1


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## FLQuacker (Aug 10, 2018)

Got the input jack in...

String clearance under the cover on low e about 1/8

That's it for today...gotta get ready for my dinner date.

Reactions: Like 2 | Way Cool 1


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## FLQuacker (Aug 10, 2018)

No rest for the weary....and obsessed rookie guitar builders.

MIM strat became a neck donor. It only took a couple shots of Flor De Cana 25 yr reserve....effortless.

Neck went on like butter. Action is fantastic. Nut is new. 

I do miss the rosewood combo, and it's just a 21 fret so no overhanging 22 to cover the heel pocket radius difference. But it does tell me I just got to invest in a neck. Nothing wrong in the pocket. 

So long lotus....might make a lamp outta it :)

Reactions: Funny 1


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## FLQuacker (Aug 11, 2018)

Getn there...

Reactions: EyeCandy! 1


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## Arn213 (Aug 11, 2018)

The ill after effect of the Flor de Caña rum and it definitely had side effects because it is past it’s shelf life- 25 years old you say ! I can’t say that is not the first time I’ve seen a t-style body mounted with a S-style neck. FYI-a STRAT neck actually will work with both a tele and strat body (downside is that it will will have pockets at the corners) because the midline section will have a “couple/kissing” properly and the screw holes will line up- what I am saying is that it will function properly and intonate properly. So you will be fine. If you went reverse say you want a tele neck to go in a Stra body- there would be a function problem and it will not intonate properly because the tele has a straight 180 degree heel and a strat neck pocket has a curved heel. That means you will have a “seam” between the two. The screw holes will not line up as well and will throw off the scale length as you will have Tom move the tele bridge slightly forward.

The new neck orphan the nut on that looks shorter and correct compare to the Lotus one which looks taller. You must have noticed though that you get a different sound with a maple/rosewood combo versus an all maple neck when you mounted it to this body.

I just realized you mounted the neck pickup directly to the wood as oppose to a pickguard mount. It is a long going debate and controversy- some say their is no difference, some say that being mounted on the body gives it more of a “woody like resonance”. The advantage of the neck pickup mounted on the pickguard is that you can adjust the pickup height without removing the body. You can always do a test and see which version you prefer on this specific guitar.

The only other feedback I can give you for “further fine tuning” is to dial in the proper *“pickup height”*. You want them “balanced” for even volume between treble-to-bass, optimal sound as far as volume/sustain/clarity is concern- you don’t want to end up with a bouncy loud bass pickup and or a weak /thin treble cut. You don’t want the pole pieces to be too low as it will result in a thinner, brighter sound and a weaker signal. Setting the poles too high as you will cause hot output signal, decrease sustain and cause intonation problems (string being too close being pulled by the magnets) among other things. It is fairly simple. You need a machinist ruler and a screwdriver. Before you do this though make sure your guitar is intonated. Then proceed to these steps. You want to push down with one finger with your left hand on the 6th string (bass e-string) then measure from the top of the pickup pole to the bottom of the string with your other hand, you do the same step with the 1st string (treble e-string). Here some standard spacing number guideline for each pick up (these are base point and adjust slightly per taste):
-Bridge pickup: 6th string spacing at .046”, 1st string spacing at .031”
-neck bridge pickup: 6th string spacing at .0625”, 1st string spacing at .046”

How do you like it and how does your son like it so far? Is he bringing it to his gig tonight?


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## FLQuacker (Aug 11, 2018)

I guess this the "honeymoon" period....I'm loving it.

Lot of tweaks you mention, but I've got a good baseline on string response and height over pickups. Nice and even e to e. Action is great. Low and no buzz

I'm playing it thru a little 5 watt kit I built a while back. Connected to an old Korean vox pathfinder 8" bulldog speaker. It is exactly "my" tone preference....

Son hasn't seen it yet but is planning on a test drive tonight. Hopefully I can get some good audio to share of some real guitar players. Him and his lead guitar guy want to try it out.


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## FLQuacker (Aug 11, 2018)

I can not help to be proud of.......how much faith this kids got in me. It did run fine in sound check :)

Well it LOOKS good onstage!

Reactions: Like 2 | Way Cool 1


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## Arn213 (Aug 11, 2018)

You just gave him one of the greatest gift a father can which is “functional music tool” that will help him get to the next level. You can’t buy that sorth of thing off the shelf or put a price on it- it is priceless! Not to mention you have put your heart and soul into it (less than a week).

You just set yourself up for trouble..........the lead guitarist is going to get in line, the bassist will and I will not doubt it when your son ask you for another.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Blueglass (Aug 12, 2018)

Sound clip is very warm and balanced. I expected a bit more bite from it. Very nice.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## FLQuacker (Aug 12, 2018)

I agree Les, it is much more mellow and bassy than I expected. I never really got it crunked up though.

Thanks Arn...it was a journey, not quite completed. 

He loves it

Not sure what this will sound like, recorded at a distance with my cheap Android.

He got some mojo worked in to it on its first live song. Muddy Waters...Hoochie Coochie Man

I'll work on trying to get some better isolated sounds from it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Arn213 (Aug 12, 2018)

It definitely is not a “polite” sounding guitar. It does have a pretty good mix of mid “bark/snarl/grit” combo- does not really get muddy and it definitely cuts through the mix. About 2:30 mark there is a small sample where you can hear the clarity/cutting of the chord rythym projecting through and not get soggy or muddy. Very nice.


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## FLQuacker (Aug 12, 2018)

Arn...your right.

Got an order for a Thunderbird bass :)

And there ain't no money in it selling to this gang....that's my fault.

But before that project gets started, I gotta make me a Tele! 

Now just gotta talk my buddy into a hunk of that old pine.

Reactions: Like 2


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## FLQuacker (Aug 12, 2018)

@Blueglass 

I think I have the pups a little low...been fiddling today with it. I actually got to take it with me last night, but had to promise he gets it back before I head home. Ended up with a hard case...the bass player said ain't no way I should be hauling it around in a soft side bag...and swapped us cases he had for a Tele. 

Good bunch of kids. His family owns Graco Fertilizer in Cairo Ga.

Lead player has more firepower strapped on him during the day than I own...he's a "Govt Sneek" but I won't say where :)

My kids the Senate Coordinator. You can watch him acting like a bigshot on the Florida Channel when the Senate goes in session...but ya wouldn't recognize him from the vid :)

Drummer has 2 masters in something I can't even pronounce.


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## Arn213 (Aug 12, 2018)

FLQuacker said:


> Arn...your right.
> 
> Got an order for a Thunderbird bass :)
> 
> ...



That is fantastic! Mine is the electric guitar version which is a “Firebird”. Unique shape and sound which has the most amazing firebird pickups that are warm, rich and fat- easily on the top 5 favorites. It is nice and light too, thinner body (2 mahogany wings) and it has a raised middle neck through (9 piece neck lamination out of mahogany and walnut)- it has a cool “honest” detail joinery, in a stylized v-shape tongue with a groove (body wing and neck attachment visible at the shoulders). Love the shape with the reverse headstock tuners. You will need some long lumber for the “Thunderbird”, but the nice thing is that you need mostly strips for the neck, 2 pieces for the wings out of mahogany, a rosewood fretboard and a holly headstock overlay that gets stained black. 

You definitely need to make yourself a tele with that old pine from your buddy! A maple neck is the best traditional combo for it- you can do a 6 in line headstock OR you can do the 3 per 3 side “snakehead” headstock.


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## rocky1 (Aug 12, 2018)

Way COOL bud!! 

The pictures are purty guys, but they got nothing on seeing this thing in person, it is truly stunning up close. That cherry is amazing! I don't play, but this guitar just feels right in hand. Very nicely balanced, Wayne said it's a little heavy, but you'd have a tough time convincing me of it. Feels really sweet when you're holding it.

Terrific to see it all come together that fast and have a successful debut!! Isolate it, and pick us a little blues, let's hear it moan!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## FLQuacker (Aug 12, 2018)

He never mentioned it being heavy either,...they played a 2 hr set 9-11p. No breaks.

Did 2 accoustic songs....rest of the night, he used it.

I think he was amazed at how it and the tone turned out. Lol...me too, seriously!

This was just one of those deals where everything came together like it should have. Or, you hope it does and it did. 

I'll get slapped up side the head on one... guaranteed :)

Reactions: Funny 1


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## rocky1 (Aug 12, 2018)

When you distribute weight right, it makes a big difference. May have been pure luck, but you nailed this one!!


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## SubVet10 (Aug 17, 2018)

Impressive machine head - she should have sustain for days.

Reactions: Like 1


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