# For you guys with saw mills



## Flacer22 (Aug 16, 2013)

Got a question for you guys with mills, if I offend anyone I don't mean to mealy annoyed at the way this situation played out today.

I've had 5 or 6 different people mill lumber for me over last 5 years most were Amish but guy I've been useing lately was is not and unfortunately was busy today. I decided to give a new guy a try as I really wanted these 3 logs that just came down milled. Called him up he was a little more then I'm use to paying but seeing as how he was available went ahead and made arrangements for him to meet me when I got to farm this morning. Over phone I ask how fast he typically cuts and ya I know that's a hard question just wanted a general idea. His answer was about 300 be feet an hour and faster with a helper. Here was my flaw I assumed by with a helper he meant me as all the people in past I've helped cut my own lumber even at big Amish mills I hauled it to. In fact they welcomed help and deducted from price. The band mills that have come to my place demanded I provide one helper that's what I was use too. I cut and log all my own stuff only thing I don't do is mill it due to lack of said mill. Anyway when he shows up this morning he has a helper with him. I'm thinking ok guess that's part of how he does it. Well we get all set up and I start to help move logs in position and he informs me that this is now a job site and I'm not allowed to help... At first I'm kinda taken a back so I ask him why? He said that he provided the help witch I guess I was ok with thought maybe that was why he was a little more money. Then the bomb shell hits no he wants me to pay the helper by the hour on top of the price he quoted me plus I'm not allowed to help. At this point I was more then mad and these guys were moving slower thn molasses Any way. I just called deal off and told him this was not way it was portrayed to me over phone. He then demanded I pay set up fee witch I kindly told him to leave before he was arrested for trespassing. 

So my question is do any of you not allow land owners to help and what is reasoning? This guy was wrong in way to many ways to say and is giving a bad name to sawyer but his intent seemed to do the job slowly simply to make me pay more. I've had one guy make me sign a paper saying I helped at my own risk witch I thought was fine but seems on the phone conversation a lot of this information should have been better communicated.

Ok my rant is over just can't believe this.


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## Kevin (Aug 16, 2013)

Based on what you've said, I agree he was trying to get to you. I also agree with your decision to run him off without giving him a cent. In fact I would have probably told him he owed me for wasting my time.


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## shadetree_1 (Aug 16, 2013)

I'm with Kevin on this.I would have done the same as you.


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## Mike1950 (Aug 16, 2013)

Unfortunately like lots of business's the bad ones make it to where we should get most things in writing. The flakes, screwballs and crooks make it bad for all.


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## From The Forty (Aug 16, 2013)

The only thing I can come up with is liability. I have always been told that if someone hurts themselves on/with your tool that you are liable for their injuries. 

Obviously, he wasn't upfront with the additional cost. He seems like kind of a tool with "This is my jobsite" rant. You probably did the right thing. Sounds like a headache. 

Geoff


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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Aug 16, 2013)

My insurance company won't allow me to let customers into the milling area of my operation so I can see where he would be coming from on that end. However there are way better ways of communicating that to a customer. The hidden costs you are mad about (and rightly so) would be something I would feel the same about. In your case I would likely have done what you did. It sounds way shady. Even if he did not do it intentionally it is very unprofessional at the very least on his part.

For me I go well out of my way to explain all the costs involved. Last fall I had a repeat customer come in with 3 ash logs. He called before he came out and I explained I an now charging by the BF instead of hourly and the reason was because I work with a help all the time now, I have insurance, etc.... He knew the price I was going to charge him before the mill was even fired up. I scale the logs using Scribner scale prior to milling and bill based off that number even though I will likely yield a pinch more. The only variable was damaged blades, $15 each for metal. 

He said cool and lets go for it. It took an hour or 2 and the guy flipped out on me because the rate came to $65/ hour instead of the $40 I used to charge:dash2::dash2::dash2: 

In that case I am not sure how I could have done better for the guy. I did my best to predict the exact price before we started and he was still mad when I handed him a receipt for that amount:wacko1::wacko1:

In the end I took $20 bucks off the bill to satisfy the guy in the hopes he will be back. He was a bit PO'd that I would not let him help the 2nd time around but I can't change that aspect. I need the insurance incase of a fire, tornado, etc.. and I have to put that above my customers desire to handle the lumber right off the log. Hopefully that part won't dissuade him from coming back.


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## Kevin (Aug 16, 2013)

Treecycle Hardwoods said:


> .....
> In the end I took $20 bucks off the bill to satisfy the guy in the hopes he will be back. ....



I wouldn't have taken anything off the bill if the rates were clear up front. And I sure as heck wouldn't have let him leave with the impression I ever wanted him to return. I would have let him know in a respectful way that he needs to find another sawyer. Call me a whatever, but life is too short to:

A) Be a jerk 
B) Put up with jerks. 

Intentionally make my life difficult in any regard and you get a Don't Pass Go Don't Collect $200 card from me. I didn't use to be that way but as I have matured I've come to realize it's not my job to take sh!t from people, and I can send them on their merry way without feeling the need to tell them to go to hell. Most people seem to be doing that just fine all on their own anyway.


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## jimmyjames (Aug 16, 2013)

Yep, classic bait and switch. Thought he could bring a friend along and bleed you dry...... the first sawmill guy I used was the same way, advertised $.30 a foot for sawing 4/4 and said he could do 6-800 feet an hour, after 4 hours he had 300 feet milled and the bill was $300........ how? I have no idea.... said he wanted $75 an hour......... the entire time after every cut he stopped ajdnbrusged the board off and looked at the figure, talked, sat down and drank tea......... I'm not paying somebody $75 an hour to drink tea, my last guy I paid $75 an hour and milled 1500 feet of lumber and 300 feet of burl in just shy of 5 hours....... and that price included paying his helper and I was told that upfront, was a perfect transaction of services


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## woodtickgreg (Aug 16, 2013)

Kevin said:


> Treecycle Hardwoods said:
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That pretty much describes me to a "T" I just can't seem to take any crap from anyone. There have been times I know I should have bit my tongue but just can't seem to do it. Once you do me wrong I am done with you, push me and I'll push back harder, stupid I know........but it's the principal of the thing.


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## sprucegum (Aug 17, 2013)

woodtickgreg said:


> Kevin said:
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> > Treecycle Hardwoods said:
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And the older I get the less tolerance for BS I have. I will never forget the words of a subcontractor my dad hired one time. The guy was trying to shaft him for some drywall work. Apparently he did not think anyone else knew how to figure square footage. 
When caught in the scam his reply was " your the man with the check book":lolol::lolol:


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## Flacer22 (Aug 18, 2013)

Honestly the this is my job site thing really is what set me off, he's in middle of my land none the less land that's been in my family 5generations ill be damned if someone is going to kick me off anything on my own land. 

All said and done though I didn't get logs milled but spent whole weekend milling with my shop band saw and came across a lot of really nice wood. So in end it wasn't a bad weekend for me maybe fore him


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