# Question Of The Week... ( 2017 Week 32)



## ripjack13 (Aug 6, 2017)

*Do you think, as a whole, U.S. society is more or less consumptive of the chip-board, particle board crap furniture and things it was five or ten years ago? And do you think things will get better or worse for the quality of the furniture?




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**Rules**
There is no minimum post requirement,
primates, woodticks and leprechauns are welcome to post an answer.
And of course the woodducks and the viking carpenters too...


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## Brink (Aug 6, 2017)

I'm seeing a similar % of custom made vs "junkie/trendy/factory made" 
Seems the discount houses are getting higher sales volume due to low costs. People aren't buying for the long term.
With higher sales volume, there's been an increase of people desiring custom designs, or furniture they will never have to replace.

Reactions: Like 3


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## woodtickgreg (Aug 6, 2017)

The crap furniture thing is here to stay in my opinion, cheap stuff seems to win out in america, we made China what it is! But there is also 2 niche markets that I have been seeing increase. One is antiques and real quality stuff of the past, and the other is one off furniture made by craftsman like ourselves. Some people will pay for solid wood quality pieces because they know the value of it. Most people are shocked that you cant build them furniture for what they want to pay for it, they don't understand that you can't even buy the lumber for what they want to pay let alone the time it takes to build it and for other materials. But some do, and some have the money and will pay because they appreciate solid hand made furniture. But having said that you better step up your game and deliver a top quality piece of furniture with an outstanding finish on it. Look at Maloof's furniture, it was beautiful, unique, and finished impeccably. He had high standards and he stuck to them, even when he became insanely busy and there was multi year waiting list for his stuff, he never cut corners and didn't allow his guys to either. 
So in summary I think things will get worse for the average mass merchandise big box store crap furniture market because people will continue to buy it. But at the same time I think the custom hand built real wood market will continue to grow for those that have the money for it.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Great Post 1


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## Tony (Aug 6, 2017)

I think there will always be a market for the cheap crap, people who don't see they will have to replace it every 2 years for perpetuity. I do think people are realizing that paying for quality on the front end ultimately saves you money in the long run. More and more people are understanding the value of quality made pieces, and the popularity of buying local from a single Craftsman is on the upswing. I think it's a good thing for us. Tony

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Sidecar (Aug 6, 2017)

Oh I venture to say it's gonna continue to grow , seems folks are losing their imagination and knowledge of quality along with indvidualizem and abilitie to spell. Oh well I'm gonna head to the barn and imagine what I can stir up today ........

Reactions: Like 1


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## Karl_99 (Aug 6, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> The crap furniture thing is here to stay in my opinion, cheap stuff seems to win out in america, we made China what it is! But there is also 2 niche markets that I have been seeing increase. One is antiques and real quality stuff of the past, and the other is one off furniture made by craftsman like ourselves. Some people will pay for solid wood quality pieces because they know the value of it. Most people are shocked that you cant build them furniture for what they want to pay for it, they don't understand that you can't even buy the lumber for what they want to pay let alone the time it takes to build it and for other materials. But some do, and some have the money and will pay because they appreciate solid hand made furniture. But having said that you better step up your game and deliver a top quality piece of furniture with an outstanding finish on it. Look at Maloof's furniture, it was beautiful, unique, and finished impeccably. He had high standards and he stuck to them, even when he became insanely busy and there was multi year waiting list for his stuff, he never cut corners and didn't allow his guys to either.
> So in summary I think things will get worse for the average mass merchandise big box store crap furniture market. But at the same time I think the custom hand built real wood market will continue to grow for those that have the money for it.




I am not sure that things will decline for the mass market crappy furniture...there is clearly a market for this type of thing. IKEA is another example of a strong market. I agree with you regarding the antique market and custom furniture market. As a young couple, we bought a number of nice antique pieces, llike an oak dining table, to use for everyday use.

Reactions: Like 1


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## CWS (Aug 6, 2017)

Sidecar said:


> Oh I venture to say it's gonna continue to grow , seems folks are losing their imagination and knowledge of quality along with indvidualizem and abilitie to spell. Oh well I'm gonna head to the barn and imagine what I can stir up today ........


Spelling does seem a little tough for some. Cheap stuff is here to stay but quality things will always bring in demand.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## rocky1 (Aug 6, 2017)

The majority of the population here in the US has not a clue what quality furniture is about, nor do they have any idea most of what they buy is compressed sawdust with a purty picture glued over the top. Thus compressed sawdust is here to stay, because the majority of folks don't have a clue.

On the other hand, a lot of people can't afford quality furniture, and buy furniture because it looks decent and doesn't cost a lot. Thus compressed sawdust is here to stay, because the majority of folks can't afford quality furniture.

Then there is the little itty bitty fact that, there isn't enough quality wood left in the world to build quality furniture for everyone, even if they were informed and could afford it, nor can it be grown fast enough to support the market. Thus compressed sawdust is here to stay, because there simply are too many people and not enough trees.

Bottom line is, like it or not... Compressed sawdust, is here to stay in the building industry! Be it on your roof, on your floor, in structural components, in cabinets, in furniture, or wherever.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## DKMD (Aug 6, 2017)

Seems like I'm seeing more 'solid wood' furniture, but it's not great wood. There's no investment in the joinery. Lots of crappy dowels and screws... no mortise and tenon construction. With the Walmart/Amazon culture, I think it's only going to get more common.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Sprung (Aug 6, 2017)

I'm seeing some of my friends and family move beyond particle board and into something that is solid wood and will hopefully last. Part of it might be that I and my friends are all in that mid-30's w/ kids stage of life and particle board furniture lasts approximately 38.6 seconds before being broken in a house with children. Some of them are even doing the DIY route and building some of their own stuff, like a dining table. Unfortunately they're going for plans from Anna White and the like - stuff that isn't designed to last because it doesn't factor in wood movement.

To that point I've seen the following just within the last year:
1. A friend who built a table according to plans he found online. No mention of letting wood (including, and especially, the 2x's from the big box stores) dry, no mention of wood movement. Their kitchen table has a wave effect from one side to the other because of how much the wood has moved. We played a card game on it the last time we were there - I honestly don't know how they can functionally use the table to eat at.
2. A friend who really wanted me to build them a table. I was getting ready to talk to them about it again when they moved. They found a local guy selling furniture made from reclaimed lumber and bought a dining table and chairs from him. I've seen pictures. All pocket screws. Not all reclaimed wood, as advertised - plenty of fresh 2x's in the mix. No consideration for wood movement. She loves her dining set, but when I looked at the pics I told my wife that her table will start self destructing within a couple years based upon how it was constructed.
3. Another friend who built a dining table and benches. Went from buying 2x's at the big box store to stained and varnished and in use in under 72 hours. Wood finished on the tops on only the top side of the table and benches. Already warping. Also used an Anna White plan that used "breadboards" that aren't really breadboards - just pocket screwed in place so the whole thing will eventually split when the wood moves more.

I am really happy to see some of my friends and family taking an interest in having, even building, furniture that will hopefully last a long time. I just wish they'd do more research and ask more questions first so they can truly get something quality. Shoot, if they want to build it themselves, I'll be happy to help them build it - and have even offered some friends to help them build and all they'd have to do is pay for the materials. I just don't want to see them with a piece of furniture that is supposedly going to last that then self-destructs and has them saying, "Why bother with expensive, solid wood if it won't last?" and then hoping back on the particle board bandwagon.


We do still have a few pieces of particle board furniture in our house. I do plan to eventually build pieces to replace those items. I'm aiming to build quality, well thought out furniture that our boys can fight over when we're gone.

Reactions: Like 3


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## RedwoodWorkshop (Aug 6, 2017)

I believe there are 3 key factors in the cheap furniture faze the US is going through.
1. Current young generation is the largest in US history larger than Baby boomers. Causing parents to be tight on cash especially being victims of housing market crash. Than a corrupt government "bails out" the company who destroyed the lives of thousands of families. The company should have failed, collapsed and business goes to the market decision. I.E. small local credit union considering people's distrust in large banks. 
2. Tax. Many of these partial bored crap furniture pieces come from overseas. With alarmingly low import tax and high export taxes it's ONLY affordable for companies to import crap. 
3. Speed of today's life. Today the average persons life is so busy they have trouble planning a week ahead let alone 10 or 15 years. Why spend the extra several thousand dollars, when it will only extent the life of furniture into the depths of unforseablr future. 

I have faith in the economy to grow. I have faith in humanity being restored. By God I hope one day the Whitehouse might be filled with the competant.

Reactions: Like 1 | Great Post 1


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## Schroedc (Aug 6, 2017)

It does seem people are buying a better class of cheap furniture these days but that is probably just Ikea with better stuff of the low end and the other manufacturers stepping up their game a little. As far as handmade, heirloom stuff. the area I'm in won't go for it unless it;s cheap. I've stopped doing a lot of it as we have a couple retired gentlemen in the area selling finished pieces for not much over wood cost and I can't compete with that. I do have lots of requests but 99% of the time they hear the price and run and I refuse to work for free.

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## Sidecar (Aug 6, 2017)

When your X takes the bathroom sink & your have'n a cookout for the antique tractor club a fella has to go to the barn and build one

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## Blueglass (Aug 6, 2017)

It has been locked in longer than that. I used to help my dad install all the flooring for Century furnitures showroom twice a year for the shows. Even then I was shocked at how much particle board was in high end furniture. 
When pretty much all the companies in Lenoir, NC sent all their work overseas I mentioned to a very good friend that with all the skilled labor there the workers should get together and do some simple, solid pine furniture. He told me he had the same idea but the workers all shot it down saying they didn't want to make simple. Cecil was the engineer who designed how the fancy designers furniture got put together (and one of the best friends I've ever had) so he knew how to go about it. I do think people are hooked on consumables but I also find it sad that the skilled labor is so trapped into the thinking that they wouldn't even consider it.

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## David Hill (Aug 6, 2017)

Yes! On the consumptive part. Lots of genX's, and most millenials have no concept of tools and their uses. They buy stuff at a "whim"-- they see it on tv or the net, don't have much idea of quality, then replace it as fads change.
As for quality in general---ya have to look for it. I refuse to buy particle board/composite crap. If we see something we like..... take pics/measures and ....Voila! A new project, unless we find it elsewhere made of wood.
Did I say we love antiques??? That's the _best _recycled wood.

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## barry richardson (Aug 7, 2017)

I think it's like anything else, driven by economics, cheaper stuff will always prevail. Niche folks like the Amish furniture makers have seemed to survive though, seems like they have a pretty faithful following.....


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## Mike1950 (Aug 7, 2017)

Started a lot longer ago than most realize. My first house was a little and I mean little 550 sq ft. Materials were scarce after the war. House had a midget fireplace. all the interior wall except for the plumbing walls were 3/4" plywood stood on end. It was 1973- sold an old VW and 53 Chev PU for the $500 down payment- $60 a month $5,500 total price. Steep lot had 15 stairs up to get to it. Needed work- parents were less than happy- we had a different vision- they could not see how I would want to live in such a house for rest of live- I thought WHAT!!! I am not going to live here rest of live. Different mindset. Mom still lives in house they bought in 1957. PS- 1 1/2 yrs later traded fixed up house for run down 5 unit apt. and Yep Parents really went off deep end on that one- I was a poor listener.
After WWII people wanted more stuff- they had been thru depression and war. They were sick of rationing everything- gas-coffee-sugar-etc. They were sick of reusing stuff. My uncle and dad talked about having a good trip to spokane-120 miles meant only having to stop 2 or 3 times and fix ( break down and repair a tire on side of road) on the trip. They had tire boots- put inside tire cause the tire was that worn. Most the population cannot remember when there was not enough. The freezer part of your side by side is bigger than their fridge was, which was ok- there was very little frozen food at store. They did not want old used stuff they wanted new stuff. and lots of it. Thus the beginning of the consumer society. Lots of people do not want things that last, then they would be stuck with it. When style changes they throw the cheap crap away and buy new. They just wanted more stuff- bigger stuff- shinier stuff.
Can blame this on politics but I personally do not think so. It is easy to point the finger at someone else- the bank- china- the pres. but it really has very little to do with it. as population grows and we continue- and the world continues to consume more and more stuff resources are starting to show the strain. I try to learn about new wood that I see or buy. Mozambique- the country where Mozambique/Ovangkol comes from for example- most of the wood goes to china- it is estimated that 90% plus is illegal logging- maybe at this rate it lasts 15-20 years and resource is gone. Gone!! a whole country's forests gone.Supply and demand- more people more demand less quality stuff because prices go up.

Reactions: Great Post 1


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## kweinert (Aug 7, 2017)

I was reading something the other day about cultural changes and how it's more difficult these days to dispose of family heirlooms when someone passes. The gist of it was that the younger generations are more mobile and don't want the heavy furniture and aren't in the 'possessions are a good thing' frame of mind.

Since I can't summarize it very well I'll just post the link to the article from PBS: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/column-need-unload-family-heirlooms-prepare-disappointment/


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