# help with ID



## lvstealth (May 3, 2017)

this is pallet wood. i am getting a better camera from my sister, but for now i have these pictures:
http://i.Rule #2/z1gp5b3.jpg 

thank you in advance! i am looking at all the pictures on the site, but i am overwhelmed at this point. 

it is fairly light in weight, and light in color too.


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## phinds (May 3, 2017)

I can't tell. Can you get a well focused closeup of the end grain?

My first thought was hackberry but that seems very unlikely for pallet wood

Reactions: Like 1


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## lvstealth (May 3, 2017)

ok, maybe...

http://i.Rule #2/Twgxpss.jpg 
between the marks is one inch
http://i.Rule #2/fkFhfmF.jpg


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## phinds (May 3, 2017)

I'm finding it hard to believe that the pore density is correct, based only on the pores that are visible in those pics. Can you clean up the end grain? The pic is well focused and with a decent size, but the wood surface itself is just too fuzzy.

@Mr. Peet , any ideas?

If it's REALLY light, it could be ceiba but that's REALLY unlikely for a pallet wood (TOO light)


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## lvstealth (May 3, 2017)

http://i.Rule #2/hSWCP9B.jpg 
http://i.Rule #2/4DRa8gT.jpg

Reactions: EyeCandy! 1


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## lvstealth (May 3, 2017)

it is noticeably light. red oak is distinctly heavy compared to pine, this is distinctly light compared to the same pine. if it were on a scale, only woods i KNOW and have held, of 1 to ten, balsa is 1 and red oak is 10 (my experience is limited) then this is a 3. pine is a 5 (some more, but that is when wetter). (the pine is mostly southern yellow pine in my limited world)

Reactions: Great Post 1


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## Tony (May 3, 2017)

I have no clue, but it's got some pretty spalting in it. Tony

Reactions: Agree 1


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## lvstealth (May 3, 2017)

Thanks for the effort! 
Lisa


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## phinds (May 3, 2017)

Well, it definitely looks like ceiba but as I said that just seems weird as a choice fora pallet wood. Do you have enough to where you could send me a small piece for analysis?

EDIT: Ceiba IS fairly strong and I suppose if the pallet comes from a country where ceiba is plentiful, perhaps I'm underestimating the likelihood of it being used in pallets. I know in Mexico a lot of pine is used for pallets and I don't normally think of pine as pallet wood.


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## lvstealth (May 3, 2017)

Sure, so... How much is enough? 6 or 8 inches? And what's the address? I'll get it to you!


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## phinds (May 3, 2017)

I like something at least 1/2" thick, preferably more, and at least 4" long, although a bit over 6" long is better. 2" wide works, but just over 3" is better.

So, minimum 1/2"T x 4"L x 2"W but better is 3/4" x 6+" x 3+"

I'll PM you my address


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## lvstealth (May 3, 2017)

ok, i will get it to you!

one more...
http://i.Rule #2/IMIg47s.jpg 
http://i.Rule #2/6qEG5lj.jpg 
this is grey to white in color (not like weathered grey, but a pretty grey with white areas. 
it is heavier than the other, but not as heavy as red oak. it is pretty hard. the pallet might have come from Italy, but i sort of sanded off the mark, but another piece from that pallet was from italy but some different wood i cant id either (giggle), and it came in with some marble on it (to a tombstone place here, the guy said it had marble but who knows) and some of the pallet had another country code on it, so maybe it was rebuilt a few times. it was a sturdy well built pallet though. the only wood i think i know from this pallet is red oak (but i dont really know... i just think that)


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## phinds (May 3, 2017)

Well, send along a piece of that as well.


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## lvstealth (May 3, 2017)

ok, got it all ready, it will be in the mail tomorrow! you are so wonderful to help! 

i have been told by my family that everything is oak or pine, i was pretty sure they were wrong... but only pretty sure.


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## phinds (May 3, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> ok, got it all ready, it will be in the mail tomorrow! you are so wonderful to help!
> 
> i have been told by my family that everything is oak or pine, i was pretty sure they were wrong... but only pretty sure.


I can 100% guarantee you that the first wood you posted is neither oak nor pine. On the second one but the end grain isn't very clear so I'm not willing to commit on it but I'll be surprised if it is oak or pine.


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## Mr. Peet (May 3, 2017)

@lvstealth @phinds 

Cheryl,

Look at the pallet ribs (also caller runners). If a pallet is set for international trade, it needs to have an IPPC stamp. On the stamp it has the treatment code and country code. Treatment codes are often HT = heat treated or MB= methyl bromide. If you have a county code, please let us know what it is.

Wood #1, thinking _Hura crepitans_, 'Sandbox tree.?..
Wood #2, thinking _Populus_ or _Liriodendron_.?..


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## phinds (May 3, 2017)

Mr. Peet said:


> Wood #2, thinking _Populus_ or _Liriodendron_.?..


Mark, I can't be positive but I think I see that one being ring porous and if so, then Populus would be out. On #1, you are agreeing w/ me that it looks like ceiba though I don't see why you picked that particular species. It looks like Ceiba spp. to me but then I don't know Hura crepitans so maybe they look the same.


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## lvstealth (May 4, 2017)

boy oh boy the sandbox tree sounds bad! 

Ok, it's on its way to you. They said it will get there Monday. It's UPS, I can send the tracking number if you want. 

Thanks for your time and effort!

Lisa


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## Mr. Peet (May 4, 2017)

phinds said:


> Mark, I can't be positive but I think I see that one being ring porous and if so, then Populus would be out. On #1, you are agreeing w/ me that it looks like ceiba though I don't see why you picked that particular species. It looks like Ceiba spp. to me but then I don't know Hura crepitans so maybe they look the same.



I follow you Paul, yes looks like it could be, but would think semi-ring porous firstly. Some woods have different densities as you approach a growth ring. With certain blades, dull ones mostly, they tear the wood while cutting and can create the appearance of semi-ring or ring porous in the rough. But when the end grain is finish prepped, a different creature is revealed.

Look forward to your findings Paul. Keep me in the loop.

M. R. Peet...


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## lvstealth (May 8, 2017)

it says it was delivered! im excited!

Reactions: Like 1


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## phinds (May 8, 2017)

Lisa, I had a few minutes to spare this morning so I processed your pieces down to 400 grit. My standard is 1200 grit but I often can get a solid ID at only 200 to 400 grit. I only go to 1200 on mystery wood if I have to.

The first wood still looks like ceiba but they rays are weak so I'll need to do a bit of research. Also, I notice a couple of tangential pore multiples and I'm not familiar w/ that happening with ceiba so again, I need some research. Here's the end grain (1/4" x 1/4" area). You can see a tangential pore multiple towards the upper left and some normal radial pore multiples in the middle






The second wood definitely looks like maple but the end grain is a bit fuzzy at 400 grit so I'm not 100% sure that's what it is. I'm going to have to take it to 1200 grit. Here's what it looks like at 400 grit:






And the 3rd wood you sent, not pictured in this thread, is clearly cherry. I don't know which of the several dozen Prunus species it it is but the characteristics (face grain and end grain both) are very similar to American black cherry. In fact, the face grain is so obviously cherry that I really didn't need to do the end grain closeup to tell. Here's the end grain at 400 grit:

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 1


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## lvstealth (May 8, 2017)

Oh!!!! Thank you!! You are the best!


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## phinds (May 8, 2017)

I also note that #1 prorates out to 22lbs/cuft which is EXACTLY on the money for ceiba.

Reactions: Like 1


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## phinds (May 8, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> Oh!!!! Thank you!! You are the best!


Well, other than all that slobbering that I do, I'm OK.

Reactions: Great Post 1 | Funny 1


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## phinds (May 8, 2017)

@Mr. Peet do you have any experience w/ ceiba with light rays and tangential pore doubles?

The Inside Wood site doesn't show either one in the few end grain shots it has of Ceiba pentandra but I don't consider that to be even remotely conclusive against ceiba and it otherwise looks just like their pics.

The USDA is no help except for confining the density and I can't find any other pics. Eric doesn't have ceiba on his site and Hoadley, not surprisingly, doesn't mention it.

Richter and Dallwitz do say that the rays can be as little as 3 cells wide so that's positive. Nobody is giving me a clue about tangential pore doubles.

AH HA ... it occurred to me to try the species you suggested up above, Hura crepitans, in Inside Wood and I do seem to see a tangential pore multiple in that one but it's a bit fuzzy. Their well-focused pic doesn't show any, BUT ... the well focused pic shows weak rays. I'm beginning to think I was right about this wood being ceiba but wrong about the species. Looks like it's more likely to be Hura crepitans than Ceiba pentandra.



 Am I right about this being a tangential pore multiple or is this just a ray separating two pores?

Reactions: Informative 1


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## lvstealth (May 8, 2017)

you are very knowledgeable and it is great that you are willing to use that knowledge for helping! i am happy to know the one is Cherry, and the other is probably Maple. both are pretty to me. i thank you for helping, you really are awesome! slobbering aside, of course.

the tree that you say the first one might be, sandbox tree is the common name... well one of them, it sounds very unique. i am enjoying reading about it.

i have several really pretty boards that i dont know what they are.


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## Mr. Peet (May 8, 2017)

phinds said:


> @Mr. Peet do you have any experience w/ ceiba with light rays and tangential pore doubles?
> 
> The Inside Wood site doesn't show either one in the few end grain shots it has of Ceiba pentandra but I don't consider that to be even remotely conclusive against ceiba and it otherwise looks just like their pics.
> 
> ...



Yes, I would say pore multiple. Terry Porter's book does not show an endgrain view, but his face grain for Ceiba looks to match her (Cheryl) post from Wednesday the 3rd. 'Sandbox tree' is a higher density. I'm still waiting to find out what codes were stamped on the pallet, Cheryl???

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## lvstealth (May 8, 2017)

i do not know what code. i didnt note it and sanded it off. in that batch i picked up, i had several different countries. i will keep better track from now on.


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## Mr. Peet (May 9, 2017)

Often, but not at all always, the wood used in pallets is from the county, or adjacent countries to that stamped on the runner. Of coarse plantation stock and imports can easily skew things.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## phinds (May 9, 2017)

Mr. Peet said:


> Yes, I would say pore multiple. Terry Porter's book does not show an endgrain view, but his face grain for Ceiba looks to match her (Cheryl) post from Wednesday the 3rd. 'Sandbox tree' is a higher density. I'm still waiting to find out what codes were stamped on the pallet, Cheryl???


Yeah, I hadn't looked at Porter. He shows a darker color by far but I think his color is just flat wrong in this case. I agree that the face grain in his pic (other than the color) is an exact match for Lisa's piece (Lisa can't decide whether her name is Lisa or Cheryl ). Also I note that he quotes a weight of 17 lbs/cuft which is on the low end of the range I've seen but reasonable. Actually I've seen even lower.

ANYWAY Cheryl/Lisa, it's ceiba. That's my story (*) and I'm sticking with it 

I'll get that "maple" fine sanded one of these days.

* I'm still bothered by the lack of obvious rays in your piece but I'll get over it.

Reactions: Way Cool 1


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## lvstealth (May 9, 2017)

Thank you!! i really appreciate your time and effort! i would never have found that on my own. is the spalting (i think that is the word for the black lines) common in Ceiba? i have a few boards, i cant imagine what i can make, but with the black lines through it it will be pretty! i think i will leave it for now, and maybe find some great thing i can make with it. it is so very light weight it seems delicate. 

i have a few of the Cherry boards, and i think there is more of the Maple, but i have to clean it up to know. i feel like i have found treasure! wood that is not pine or oak! yippee!

i changed my name on my profile, i only put Cheryl because it said "formal" name, and i thought it mattered.

you have been so very awesome taking the time to help. i cant thank you enough! i have lots of boards i have no idea what they are, but i will try not to monopolize your time or kindness. -Lisa

Reactions: Great Post 1


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## phinds (May 9, 2017)

Lisa, I'm always happy to try to figure out what species (or at least type of wood) any mystery woods you have are. That's what this particular sub-forum on Wood Barter is for. AND, there are others here who can often figure out something when I can't. We have a lot of sawyers and knowledgeable folks. Just make sure you do a single wood per thread (to avoid confusion) and take the best pics you can of well-cleaned-up surfaces. Your pics in this thread are excellent so that's not likely to be an issue with you.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## phinds (May 19, 2017)

Lisa (@lvstealth) I got the "maple" piece (the 2nd wood above) end grain to 1200 grit and the face grain to 400 grit and there's no question. It's maple. Hard to say what KIND of maple but the weight (41lbs/cuft) suggests that it is hard maple (_Acer saccharum_) rather than one of the soft maples. The fingernail test on this piece was not definitive but also suggested hard maple. I have exceptionally hard thumbnails and could barely make a dent.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## lvstealth (May 19, 2017)

your super power... hard finger nails

Thanks! i wrote maple, hard.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## phinds (May 19, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> your super power... hard finger nails


Yeah, I was hoping for X-ray vision or something more impressive, but that's all I got.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Sincere 1


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