# Buying Lumber, do you pay for shrinkage ??



## Albert Kiebert (Jan 15, 2021)

So I needed some wider walnut to finish the tops on some boxes and found a Dealer in town that had 8/4 @$10 bf. Ended up with a board just over 12bf. The bill came to 15bf?? Salesman claimed it's "standard" to add 18% for shrinkage (Diff. btwn wet weight and kiln dried weight) I bought it because the next best bf price was $3 more per bf for 8/4. 
First time I had to buy kiln dried lumber in a lot of years, quite a shock to the system (:

So, my question is; Is that normal charging for water loss. If so, does 18% seem normal???


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Jan 15, 2021)

If I bought 12bf, I would pay for 12bf.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6


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## Tom Smart (Jan 15, 2021)

Never heard of that. Certainly not a “standard” I’ve experienced.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Tom Smart (Jan 15, 2021)

Only time I’ve heard of something like this is buying a crate of Australian burl. Pay wet weight in Australia before shipping. But kiln dried lumber - nope. 

Maybe @Mike1950 can “weigh in” on this.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Sprung (Jan 15, 2021)

I agree with Tom - the only time I've ever heard of paying for shrinkage is in burls - wet weight vs. dry weight.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Albert Kiebert (Jan 15, 2021)

Yeah, thanks guys, I am familiar with how Aussie burls are bought. I think I'll make some calls Monday and find out if other Dealers here do the same thing. Then maybe call Weights and Measures ???

Reactions: Like 1


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## Karl_TN (Jan 15, 2021)

Ask the seller why they don’t list a bdft price that includes any markup. Hidden markups that you don’t know about until finalizing a purchase is why people dislike car dealers so much.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## lonewolf (Jan 15, 2021)

This is quite common in the wholesale markets. Dealers who cater to the pro cabinet shops and millwork have this practice. Although the 18 % is usually applied to straight line rip lumber. Rough lumber is less.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tony (Jan 15, 2021)

Every time I have ever bought lumber for 20 years here, from many different places, I paid for what I got, that's it.


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## Mike1950 (Jan 15, 2021)

Tom Smart said:


> Only time I’ve heard of something like this is buying a crate of Australian burl. Pay wet weight in Australia before shipping. But kiln dried lumber - nope.
> 
> Maybe @Mike1950 can “weigh in” on this.


Lumber. Green lumber is cheaper than dry. But never seen marked up in that fashion. I would have said bye..
Burls. 
Most exotic and spendy domestic are sold at wet weight. Such as black ash. 
For maple and elder I just adjust price. Not rocket science. And it saves explaining

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 2


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## frankp (Jan 18, 2021)

You were lied to... find another place to get your wood.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Maverick (Jan 18, 2021)

If the mark-up wasn’t posted in the store, I would definitely question there practice

Reactions: Agree 1


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## sprucegum (Jan 19, 2021)

You were quoted a by the board ft price which is a measurement of volume not a measurement of weight. Makes no sense to me must be the modern math my grandchildren are trying to teach me.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## lonewolf (Jan 19, 2021)

I just saw in original post that he understood the shrinkage calculation was on weight. I'm sure this is incorrect. The shrinkage factor is in board ft. Not weight. There is a loss of width when you go from green to kiln dry. And when buying surface 3 sides lumber you lose to the ripsaw. I disagree with the honesty of this practice but it is industry standard in the wood business.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## lonewolf (Jan 19, 2021)

If you google gross tally vs net tally in lumber you will find an explanation of this practice. Dealers quote prices different so its good to know how they calculated.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mike1950 (Jan 19, 2021)

Albert Kiebert said:


> So I needed some wider walnut to finish the tops on some boxes and found a Dealer in town that had 8/4 @$10 bf. Ended up with a board just over 12bf. The bill came to 15bf?? Salesman claimed it's "standard" to add 18% for shrinkage (Diff. btwn wet weight and kiln dried weight) I bought it because the next best bf price was $3 more per bf for 8/4.
> First time I had to buy kiln dried lumber in a lot of years, quite a shock to the system (:
> 
> So, my question is; Is that normal charging for water loss. If so, does 18% seem normal???


1. adding $3 to $12 is a 25% increase not 18%. 
2. each wood loses a certain % wet to dry weight. Big leaf maple goes from 4 lbs per bd ft to 3 lbs. so the 25% loss is close. 
3. Home depot/Lowes lost in court over 2x4 markings I doubt this flies in court either. Just crappy advertising. But if they are cheaper than next guy use them while they last. Bad taste of upcharge does not leave fast. Lumber price has nothing to do with weight other than shipping cost. 
4. burl is a different ball game.


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## whitewaterjay (Jan 19, 2021)

The only markup I ever pay on the BF price is if the boards are over 12" wide then there's a 5% premium from the kiln I deal with. I would question why the 18% isn't included in their advertised BF price.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Albert Kiebert (Jan 19, 2021)

Update: First a little background on myself. I haven to bought rough lumber in 20 years, did not do a lot of flat work and had access to free boards and still do. I do know about wet weight on burls but am ignorant on lumber terms and selling process.


My problem was I ran out of 7+ “ wide walnut and I needed one more piece to Cornish the next batch of boxes for the Children’s Hospital that I wanted to finish up right away with Kiln dried not air dried. So, I contacted the 2 local dealers we got and choose one that was $10 bf verses $13 bf for 8/4 boards.
When the salesman brought me the bill it said 15bf which I commented on and the salesman said it’s really like 17bf. Cool! Got home and it measured 12.2bf. My Bad for not checking before putting in truck. Called and was told about up-charge for shrinkage and that’s normal in their business.
Did some research in this area and it seems that most folks here add bf to order or add to price per bf. (Don’t know about (Woodcraft, H/D or Lowes).

I have however found one that told me no added fees, pay for actual bf + tax only. They have a current price of $8.50 for 8/4. Which sounded good to me.

Company I bought from I called back and finally got the Manager who explained their reasoning to me and I told him how I felt taken advantage of because no one mentioned nor was it posted anywhere. Also that the salesman was misleading on total bf on bill, that he did not seem to care about me and I seemed to be bothering him. 

After a lot of me talking about abuse to the customer and what I needed the wood for he agreed to charge back the excess $$. 

So, big lesson learned. Next time I look on WoodBarter and or visit the police I mention above and see what happens. 

Thanks to all who commented with advise, Al

Reactions: Like 2


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