# Salt Box



## Kevin (Aug 28, 2015)

I needed to make a salt box for @Mrfish55 to complete a trade (actually he just asked for a pepper mill) and I didn't want to make a conventional matching set for him and Mrs. Fish, so I tried to make a somewhat color coordinated set. I failed there. I tried to make shapes that were different but felt like they belonged together. I failed. I tried to put a really nice finish on the salt box. I failed there too (but I am not done trying to fix it).





EDIT: Here's the same salt box with a YCB knob and reshaped a bit. Tried to mimic ths shap of the mill on the knob. Didn't do a very good job but I think it beats the leaf-acorn. I also shortened the box quite a bit and tried to give it a quasi shape of the mill top. Could go much thinner or I would have destroyed the tenon and mortise that holds the lid on.





I'm not crazy about the shape but only because it sucks. I also should have burnished a line where the lid meets the box because it doesn't match the burnished line above it. Other than all that I am happy.

What did I miss?

P.S. The grain of the lid knob is 90 degrees to the grain of the lid, is that a no-no?

Reactions: Like 3 | Way Cool 1


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## manbuckwal (Aug 28, 2015)

Uh, so u created a new thread forum for critiquing I see.......  What wood did you use for the lil do-dad on top of the lidded box?


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## Kevin (Aug 28, 2015)

Anigre.


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## DKMD (Aug 28, 2015)

I like the mill a lot. It looks comfortable, and the shape lets the wood do the talking.

The salt box is a little different from the boxes I've seen in that it's taller than most. The only part I really question is the skinny post under the knob/finial... I worry about that getting broken in use.

I think the two look good together... The tone of the YCB and the anigre are very similar, and walnut seems to go well with everything. I'd be happy to turn out a set like that.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## Mike1950 (Aug 28, 2015)

I think they look like cra..........  No I like them- I only give wood opinion and whether I like personally like turned Items. No experience so advise from me on turning we all know would be useless. But I do enjoy the turners chiming in. I have learned a lot about wood characteristics-methods-finishes and so on. I like the shape of PM but I am not a YCB fan- do not know why but just does not do it for me. Lucky I guess cause it is not cheap......

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Kevin (Aug 28, 2015)

I was torn between the stem length and none at all. I didn't plan it out very well (not at all just an idea) and just made it off the cuff. I was aiming at the knob being a 3D hybrid leaf/acorn so I guess a leaf-a-corn. Failed at that too. 

But I have to say Doc you are the sterling example of how critique should be given. I wish I could do it like you. But don't get a big head -- you suck.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## justallan (Aug 28, 2015)

Trying to stay positive I must say, THAT BACK DROP IS FRIGGIN' AWESOME!
I love the PM, it's rustic, yet with a cool piece of wood and the crack in it would turn it into a conversation piece for sure.
The salt box looks nice, but me having never seen or used one, would be looking for the salt shaker on the table that either resembles the PM in some way or was made out of the same wood. It is a very cool box though.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## manbuckwal (Aug 28, 2015)

Kevin said:


> Anigre.



I think if you had another piece of YCB and used it for the do-dad, it would "tie" together better . Just an opinion, like arms and legs , we have a few ....... I read that line today and liked it .

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## barry richardson (Aug 28, 2015)

I don't see a problem with either of them, except I find the crack in the pepper grinder distracting. In general, and in an ideal world, I'm of the opinion that a piece should have a whole lot of defects/character, or very little to none. Sometimes we don't get to make that choice though. I'm with Doc that the knob should probably be seated without a visible stem. As for the finish.... that is one thing that you can redo till your happy, or give up lol. I have pieces from years ago, before I had much experience with finishing, that I plan on re-doing,... we will see how that goes

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Tony (Aug 28, 2015)

Kevin, I think the mill is freaking cool as heck! I agree with Allan, the crack makes a good looking piece of wood really stand out. I like the idea of having a salt box to go with it, much more original than having a matching shaker. My opinion of the finial(?) is that it would be better with no stem. That being said, I would be honored to have that set on my table. Tony

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Mrfish55 (Aug 28, 2015)

Its different and I like different, doesn't have to be like every other combo out there to be right. It will look great on the table and I know everybody will want to know where it came from, I don't mind the crack either, at least it runs right thru the piece and its consistent, looks like a lightning strike.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## duncsuss (Aug 28, 2015)

Kevin said:


> I needed to make a salt box for @Mrfish55 to complete a trade (actually he just asked for a pepper mill) and I didn't want to make a conventional matching set for him and Mrs. Fish, so I tried to make a somewhat color coordinated set. I failed there. I tried to make shapes that were different but felt like they belonged together. I failed. I tried to put a really nice finish on the salt box. I failed there too (but I am not done trying to fix it).
> ...
> I'm not crazy about the shape but only because it sucks. I also should have burnished a line where the lid meets the box because it doesn't match the burnished line above it. Other than all that I am happy.
> 
> ...



Not sure where to begin on this, maybe the concept is the best place. I think the idea of a salt and pepper set is that the pieces need to have some contrast (so you can tell them apart) and something in common (so you can tell they are "a set" rather than just two random bits of tableware.) If I'd settled on piece in light wood and one piece in dark wood, I would have tried to make the shapes somewhat similar rather than completely different -- for example, making the salt box narrower at the seam between top and bottom.

Looking at the shape of the salt box, it feels like you made it in two parts.

I like to think of boxes as a unit (that just happen to come apart at some point), and to make this work I'll do the fitting of the lid to the base, then put the whole thing together between centers (a piece of leather or foam to protect the spot where the tailstock pushes up against the lid, the base of the box still being in the chuck at the headstock). Then I can blend the shape of the base with the lid, aiming for a form that looks nice and smooth across the whole piece.

I like to use the tip of a skew to bevel the edges at the seam, like you've done. I read someplace that it's more aesthetically pleasing for there to be an odd number of items (potatoes or carrots on a plate, beers in the fridge, lines around a salt box) so perhaps it would look better with a groove either side of the seam rather than just one above it.

If the wood of the knob were the same as the lid, I think I'd shoot for lining up the grain. But in two such dissimilar woods, I don't think that's a requirement -- which is not to say that the grain direction doesn't matter at all. Ninety degrees is good; 57 and a quarter degrees would look like you didn't care.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## steve bellinger (Aug 29, 2015)

Well the first thing i noticed was the finial (do-dad :) ). So i agree with Doc on that. The next thing that hit me was the color of the woods. Not that it matters at all, but i think a stranger sitting down to a meal is gonna pick up the PM thinking it's salt, and the salt and think it's the pepper. So if you do another one that might be something to think about.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## gman2431 (Aug 29, 2015)

Most have already said what I was gonna say but will say it again. 

The little stem looks worry some like it could break if used to rough. Personally I would have stuck it to the top and also swept the curve inward more on it. Look at one of my floats you got Kevin and the top is what I mean by sweeping in. 

The mill looks awesome. Could you have filled the crack or was it to fine? If so I would have filled with it with turquios or something to that effect.


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## Kevin (Aug 29, 2015)

duncsuss said:


> Not sure where to begin on this, maybe the concept is the best place. I think the idea of a salt and pepper set is that the pieces need to have some contrast (so you can tell them apart) and something in common (so you can tell they are "a set" rather than just two random bits of tableware.) If I'd settled on piece in light wood and one piece in dark wood, I would have tried to make the shapes somewhat similar rather than completely different -- for example, making the salt box narrower at the seam between top and bottom.
> 
> Looking at the shape of the salt box, it feels like you made it in two parts.
> 
> ...



Excellent points all, Duncan, thank you (was that too many apostrophes?). I did turn and sand as a unit between centers but for some reason I elected to finish them separately and the top took a higher sheen than the bottom. I like all your ideas and will especially put to use the uneven potato & beer theory in the future. The line above and below would look much better I can see it already. Thanks for a bunch of great advice. 




steve bellinger said:


> The next thing that hit me was the color of the woods. Not that it matters at all, but i think a stranger sitting down to a meal is gonna pick up the PM thinking it's salt, and the salt and think it's the pepper. So if you do another one that might be something to think about.



Yes I agree also, but the trade was that he sent me a box of YCB and he wanted a PM from it back in return, and the salt box was my addition so perhaps I should have made it out of YCB also. 



gman2431 said:


> Personally I would have stuck it to the top and also swept the curve inward more on it. Look at one of my floats you got Kevin and the top is what I mean by sweeping in. Could you have filled the crack or was it to fine? If so I would have filled with it with turquios or something to that effect.



I see what you mean that might have indeed looked better. As to the crack and @barry richardson mentioned it also maybe others, all of the YCB was cracked which beside the unique type of eye burl it has is almost its signature characteristic. Well, that and the turpentine aroma. All the cracks are filled with CA but I agree something, anything with color, would have been better. But they are so narrow and I had never filled cracks that narrow before and was afraid to experiment. 

Thanks for all the fantastic advice guys anyone else wish to add please jump in. The box is going to find its way back on the lathe this evening.

Reactions: Like 2


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## DKMD (Aug 29, 2015)

Kevin said:


> I like your... potato & beer theory...



Imagine that... An Irishman liking a theory involving potatoes and beer

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Mike Mills (Aug 29, 2015)

I don't critique things because I am not qualified.
Folks say a picture is worth a thousand words so few more emoticons may help.
Below are some suggestion for new emoticons.

I find the finial a fairly


 

As far as the crack in the pepper mill I'm of the opinion....


 

but realize others may find it

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 6


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## Kevin (Aug 29, 2015)

I updated the thread. I tried to incorporate as many of the suggestions you guys gave me as I could. I still don't like it but I'm gonna send it to Fish if he likes it. I suck as a turner. I'm much better at giving critique.


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## pinky (Aug 29, 2015)

I do like the pepper mill. If I was going to get picky on it, I would take the curve on the bottom half of it in more and make it flow better towards the bottom. The salt box looks very good. I like the first finial on the salt box better but would cut the tenon shorter where none of it is exposed. 
2 questions
What is a salt box? Obviously salt but what kind? table, coarse ?
Where do I find a contractor like that?


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## Mike1950 (Aug 29, 2015)

I suck as a turner. I'm much better at giving critique.  @Kevin 

Sorry to be my normal contrary self but I will be the proverbial pain in the butt that I am and disagree. My evidence.






Sorry about the gap- I loosened it to show grain match- top does fit tight but too lazy for another pic. You were just out of your element- you are a FBE sorta guy. And think about it - a little red -grey and green and ya have a leprecaun!!!! [/QUOTE]

Reactions: Like 2 | Thank You! 1 | EyeCandy! 2


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## TimR (Aug 29, 2015)

I'm late to the game, but enjoying that you've added this critique category. 
I have a hard time giving a critique where personal preference comes into play, but will try to differentiate if possible.
First, I love the PM wood...gotta get me some of that! I like the contrasting colors, the crack is a nice focal point and the addition of the revised salt box finial. On the new finial, I think most folks would prefer to have the finial inverted to make it easier to hold and pull the lid off...especially if humidity ever makes it 'sticky' to open. I think most would look at the shape of the PM, scale it down and invert it to make the finial with a definite hold. Wanting to use the same shape is cool...but it doesn't need to be same orientation to have impact.

On both PM and SB, I'm not crazy about the rounded edges...perhaps personal preference, but would instead like seeing either crisp/beveled edges or a profile that rounds out the entire top. To me, it should look like the entire surface was turned with only light sanding done during finishing. The rounded edges look like to me like a sanded profile, though they may not be.

In looking at the shape of the PM, there's a mix of kinda straight and kinda curved, but the top isn't flowing with the bottom. This doesn't mean they need to have a definite curve or straight continuation in all cases, but when they are this close, you probably would have achieved a better flow had they been joined together while making final cuts. The exception to needing to have them mated up for final cuts, is to given them both a strong turning element with a defined end, kinda like the PM I made you, where the top is a pure bead for most part, and the bottom is a defined bead or cove, with some elongation as needed.

Just curious...PMs are fairly simple objects, most folks probably don't bother drawing out...did you draw this one out?

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Tony (Aug 29, 2015)

pinky said:


> Where do I find a contractor like that?



First off, when you find that contractor John, send her my way!!!

Okay, now to the actual point of this thread. Above all else, hats off to you Kevin. If you suck at peppermill making, I can't imagine what good ones look like. I've seen some of your others, all beautiful pieces man!

Honestly, I liked the first finial better. It's a good idea to use the same wood as the PM, I think that ties it together as a set. I just liked the shape of the acorn better without the post. Again, I would be honored to have it either way and would show off to everybody that my friend made these, but you asked for it! . Tony

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Kevin (Aug 29, 2015)

Mike1950 said:


> I suck as a turner. I'm much better at giving critique.  @Kevin
> 
> Sorry to be my normal contrary self but I will be the proverbial pain in the butt that I am and disagree. My evidence.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

 

Thank you Mike I need a little pick-me-up after this salt box disaster.

Reactions: Sincere 1


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## Kevin (Aug 29, 2015)

TimR said:


> Just curious...PMs are fairly simple objects, most folks probably don't bother drawing out...did you draw this one out?



I rarely even draw plans for flat work stuff and I have never drawn anything out for a peppermill or other turned object. This salt box really shows it. It truly sucks. I think I might turn off the mill shaped knob and either put the anigre acorn back on or turn a YCB acron or something upside-down but frankly the lid is so light holding it with the mini pepper mill handle is a breeze even if you had slippery fingers you couldn't drop it.

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## SENC (Aug 30, 2015)

I like them both, good work, Kevin. I am going to try a peppr mill one of these days.

As for salt cellars, @justallan, they come in rather handy in humid climates (where salt clumps and sticks on holes) or if you like larger salt crystals, like kosher salt or rock salt. Here is one my wife bought recently made from olive. I like the shape so much I may try to make a slightly modified version one day. Some of you may like it, too.

Reactions: Like 4 | Way Cool 1


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## Tony (Aug 30, 2015)

SENC said:


> I like them both, good work, Kevin. I am going to try a peppr mill one of these days.
> 
> As for salt cellars, @justallan, they come in rather handy in humid climates (where salt clumps and sticks on holes) or if you like larger salt crystals, like kosher salt or rock salt. Here is one my wife bought recently made from olive. I like the shape so much I may try to make a slightly modified version one day. Some of you may like it, too.
> 
> ...



Henry, can you give rough dimensions for that? I like it, might have to build me one. Tony

Reactions: Agree 1


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## SENC (Sep 5, 2015)

Tony said:


> Henry, can you give rough dimensions for that? I like it, might have to build me one. Tony


Sorry, Tony. Took these dimension pics on Monday but forgot to post them

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