# I need advice



## chippin-in (Sep 11, 2016)

Okay guys I need your advice. I am building this Shelf for a friend of mine who is going to put her little Christmas Village buildings and pieces on it. I have considered using 5/8 inch plywood and then go with an edge band on the front. She is going to paint it or cover it with felt.
The supports are quarter inch all thread inserted through quarter inch PVC which gives them separation. But she does not want a whole lot of those to take away from the look. So my big question is, is 5/8 plywood my best option? Or should I go with three quarter inch? Or possibly MDF or melamine or the new MDO? I just don't want this to sag after a year or two of use. The design will allow them to take the supports out and drop it flat and store it all together. So it won't be standing the whole time. I also considered using something like a three-quarter inch angle underneath each shelf to keep it from sagging over time.
I included a picture of the shoe Carousel that I built for my daughter in college which shows the all thread PVC idea.

So what are your thoughts? 
Thanks 
Robert


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## Kevin (Sep 11, 2016)

If you're going for a curved shelf I don't see how 5/8" ply is going to work. I think you'd have to laminate your own curved shelves over a form. Too big to steam bend IMO so lamination is the only way I see. I'm watching though because the brain trust will figure this out . . .

Reactions: Thank You! 2


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## Mike1950 (Sep 11, 2016)

Bent laminations is how I would do it

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## ClintW (Sep 11, 2016)

I'm guessing the curve is in plane with the shelf? MDF will sag eventually I believe.

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## Tony (Sep 11, 2016)

Great idea Robert, I love the idea of the breakdown unit. I'm with Kevin on the laminate idea. Good luck man, curious to see how it ends up! Tony

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## Nature Man (Sep 11, 2016)

Christmas villages aren't very heavy, so I think your supports could be 2' apart without any sag. Also think either thickness plywood would work okay. I assume you will cut the curves in the plywood. Edge banding would follow curves as long as they are gradual, but I don't see that as a problem. Unclear as to what Kevin means. Chuck

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## chippin-in (Sep 11, 2016)

Chuck, If I understand the laminate idea correctly, it would be to keep the end grain vertical and cut it in thin strips bend it around and glue it together. 
Hmmmmm.
Lots of work. Probably the best option, but time is a consideration unfortunately. 
So, kevin, mike and tony, me having never done a laminate job before, would you use a quarter inch plywood or how would you attack it?

Thanks
Robert


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## Kevin (Sep 11, 2016)

Your bend would be easier than this one . . .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike1950 (Sep 11, 2016)

chippin-in said:


> Chuck, If I understand the laminate idea correctly, it would be to keep the end grain vertical and cut it in thin strips bend it around and glue it together.
> Hmmmmm.
> Lots of work. Probably the best option, but time is a consideration unfortunately.
> So, kevin, mike and tony, me having never done a laminate job before, would you use a quarter inch plywood or how would you attack it?
> ...



I would use 1/4" wood. Have to think about how I would do shelves. This was done with 1/8" QS oak- too tight for anything else I tried. Watch out bent lams are addictive. about 16" tall- used a MDF form.

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## Tony (Sep 11, 2016)

Robert, maybe try it with door skins? I've never done a plywood lamination but I would try it with skins first off. Tony

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## Mike1950 (Sep 11, 2016)

Tony said:


> Robert, maybe try it with door skins? I've never done a plywood lamination but I would try it with skins first off. Tony



I have a bunch of 1/4" cabinets skins- 6-7" wide that would work perfect. Might check your local cabinet maker. I would sell cheap but shipping would be a killer

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## Tony (Sep 11, 2016)

If I remember right you can pick them up at Lowes and HD pretty cheap.

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## jim mcnamara (Sep 11, 2016)

Just checking - 

I'm confused. The example shelf has boards that are flat. What your drawing shows is all of the shelves with every board with a middle lower than the ends. Kind of like a wide smile. Good drawing. But your comments about sag make me think you want flat shelves that go around a bend instead. So maybe perspective is an issue for us remote gawkers. Plus, I can't see how all the cute little christmas thingies wouldn't want to migrate downhill and collect in the middle.

All of the above comments have merit, but they assume the permanently saggy version.
Here is a nice example of a good method for wood bending. Note that you cannot use kiln dried wood and get good results
From Lee Valley

www.leevalley.com/en/html/05F1501ie.pdf


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## chippin-in (Sep 11, 2016)

Yes Jim you are correct in that the shelves are flat and they are cut with a curvature but they are indeed flat. My issue was that the woman who wants this did not want a lot of support poles in it to obstruct the view of her Christmas Village. That is why I was worried about sag.


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## Kevin (Sep 11, 2016)

chippin-in said:


> Yes Jim you are correct in that the shelves are flat and they are cut with a curvature but they are indeed flat.



I wish I knew what that meant. The shelves in the drawing are obviously arced a great deal. If they are to be flat then I don't see any challenges.

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## Mike1950 (Sep 11, 2016)

Forget all my suggestions.
Flat shelves- easy

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## chippin-in (Sep 11, 2016)

Ok. Maybe this will help. I am sorry if my drawing was confusing. I should have added the edges like in this drawing. The other is a pic of the template to check fitting. I just wasnt sure how much it may sag with only minimal supports.

Thanks
Robert

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## kweinert (Sep 11, 2016)

Depending on what the Christmas village items are made from they could be quite heavy. I have some David Winters that are quite heavy.

Since you're going to edge band them anyway, could you drill in from the sides and put some all thread, washers, and nuts and put some tension rods in the center of the wood? Side to side kinds of thing is what I have in mind.

If drilling over that distance is an issue, you could use 3/8 ply, cut matching grooves, and glue them together to form the pockets for the all thread.

Could be overkill, of course - it all depends on what's going to be setting on them.

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## Tony (Sep 11, 2016)

chippin-in said:


> Ok. Maybe this will help. I am sorry if my drawing was confusing. I should have added the edges like in this drawing. The other is a pic of the template to check fitting. I just wasnt sure how much it may sag with only minimal supports.
> 
> Thanks
> Robert
> ...



Oh hell, we were all wrong I think! With the minimal weight of the villages you shouldn't have any issues. If you edge band with hardwood that would stiffen it up more as well though. Tony

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## woodtickgreg (Sep 11, 2016)

5/8" plywood or mdo would be acceptable. Don't use mdf or particle board as it will sag. Also consider a hardwood strip around the edges, that will dress it up a little and keep it from sagging. A 1 1/4" hardwood strip glued and possibly biscuited to the edge of the ply wood would give it considerable strength. Mdo, would accept paint well.

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## jim mcnamara (Sep 11, 2016)

You would have to steam bend any hardwood edging as thick as 1.25 inches, if I understand the picture of the cardboard mock up of a shelf above.

As a general comment, laminates like plywood, because of bidirectional grain and glued laminations, are stronger than a single piece of wood the same thickness - using the same species of wood, of course. So as crude rule of thumb, 0.50 inch ply is structurally as strong (bending and creep) as a piece of 1.0 inch solid wood, same species. Better quality plywood has fewer voids (or none ) than lower grades, and so is structurally stronger than the lower grades.

phinds posted ( http://woodbarter.com/threads/wood-id-resources.70/ ) a link to the FPL resources. Download a free copy of 'Wood as an Engineering Material'. Super useful.

As you can see, it is kinda hard to give good advice by remote control, so to speak, when we don't know much about the requirements. I'm guessing your friend did not give you enough information to start with.

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