# Using Limbwood



## HomeBody (Dec 3, 2012)

On this forum or another I'm on, I read a post by Daren that said using limb wood was not a good thing to do. Something about it growing hroizontaly and gravity or some such I don't exactly recall. The concensus on the forum was that he was correct...limb wood bad. 

So today I go on ebay and see an auction by "Quaking_Aspens", who is a very reputable gunstock blank seller in CA, and see a Mannlicher stock blank made from limb wood.:dunno:
ebay auction

Here is their description of the blank: 
"This blank was cut from a 7' diameter ungrafted Black walnut tree harvested in Yolo County, California. This blank came from a large straight limb and has a little bit of crotch grain figure in the butt. Limb wood has always been considered superior for full length gunstocks by many manufacturers, including Steyr, because of its resiliency."

So someone has got it wrong...either Daren or Quaking_Aspens. 

What is your experience with limb wood? Gary


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## Mike1950 (Dec 3, 2012)

Joe Rebuild said:


> Perhaps both have it correct. As a sawyer I rarely mill limb wood for the reasons stated by Daren. Twist and warp being the main defects associated with limb wood. However it does depend on the spieces too. Additionally I believe Daren was speaking of milling lumber from limbs. Milling and drying a gun stock sized blank would have a much greater chance of surviving the seasoning process.
> 
> My $0.02
> 
> Why is there no cents symbol?



I thought this was the no sense symbol!!:ufw: :rotflmao3::rotflmao3::rotflmao3::rotflmao3::rotflmao3::rotflmao3:
Sorry Joe I just could not resist.

I agree with daren- but when you are talking about a 7' diameter tree- the limb might of been 4 ft in diameter. Might be some exceptions to the rule.


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## Dusty (Dec 3, 2012)

You can say anything you want in an E-Bay advertizement... Limb wood grows with tension on one side and compression on the other. Remove the limb and gravity is no longer an issue for the wood... In other words, it's going to move and as the temperature and humidity change, a rifle, stocked with this wood will change zero because the forend is going to change the pressure on the barrel, and it could be in any direction... At least this seller was honest and put in the ad that the blank was from limb wood. 

I carve gunstocks every day and I'd never use limb wood in any way for a gunstock blank. I use crotches, but the crotch figure is in the butt of the stock and the forend is made from the straight grain in the trunk. You are going to find that most gunstock blanks on E-Bay are not suitable for use as gunstocks. They are either green, limbwood, cut with the grain wrong for gunstocks, or cut so the grain isn't straight with the stock. I even have one stock blank from an e-bay seller that was curved so bad it might not even cut into a small rimfire stock. That's right, the photos showed the flat side of the stock and the figure is amazing. Turn it on edge and anyone could see that it's bowed! That's FRAUD and the seller should have been sued for misrepresenting is product. 

Pass on this blank and keep looking. There are some great bargains to be had, but they are hard to find. That's one reason I make my own laminated blanks. The inner laminates lock the wood in place and my blanks are stable with beautiful wood on the outside that would be unusable as a full thickness blank, but I still don't use limb wood for anything but bowls and rolling pins. The twists and bows that develop as they dry give them extra character. I also make them a little big, so I can put them back on the lathe after they are dry and get them closer to round before I give them away. 

Hal

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I looked at the E-Bay page again and saw that it had been air dried for 6 years... It's not even close to being ready to use for a gunstock. 3" thick wood takes 10 to 15 years to both dry and season. The old Fajen stock making company used dry kilns on a 7 month cycle to dry gunstock blanks quick enough to use them in mass production, but natural air dried blanks should dry outside till they get to below 20% moisture content. I sample the wood around the blank and dry the sample in an oven to calculate the green wood moisture content, then write the weight on the blank. Then I can at any time calculate the moisture content of the blank based on the original weight and moisture content. After air drying to below 20%, I put my wood in the attic of my old farm house and it heats in the day and cools at night while my heat pump is removing free moisture from the air. 1" boards will both dry and season in the Summer in 30 days, while Winter takes from 60 to 90 days to get from 20% to 6 to 8% Again, at least the seller put the true details in the ad. He also shows the edge enough to see the blank isn't bowed right now. As the blank dries that could change.


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## phinds (Dec 3, 2012)

Dusty said:


> ... 3" thick wood takes 10 to 15 years to both dry and season



How come, do you reckon, your experience is SO far off from the "normal" rule of one year per inch of thickness? I have no experience in this at all, and am just curious.


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## Kevin (Dec 3, 2012)

The "one year per inch" is not a rule, just one of the most oft-repeated myths in forestry. Well that and the one about the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. In addition "seasoning" is what a chef does to food. "Drying and seasoning" are one and the same. Seasoning is a slang term to refer to air drying. But I'm not aware of any species of wood on the planet that a 12/4 piece would take 3 years to reach EMC. 

To the OP in one word "stress". Dusty is right on about that. Imagine the limb has two "layers". A layer above the horizontal pith and a layer below it. The top layer would be under great tension (trying to tear the wood fibers apart). The bottom layer would be under great compression (trying to crush the wood cells that make up the strings of wood fibers). It grows this way it's whole life. As Dusty noted once that stress is removed and it start losinh moisture those elongated (tension) and compacted (compressed) wood cells are going to freak out! It's not quite that simple but the point is limbs are notoriously unstable. My thought is why bother when you can get trunk wood so easily.


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## hobbit-hut (Dec 3, 2012)

I cut a few four inch limbs down the middle with the intention of glueing them back together. Two days later they looked like leaf springs on an automobile. Not even Supperman could get them back together again, not straight anyway. Now I know why.


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## phinds (Dec 3, 2012)

Kevin said:


> The "one year per inch" is not a rule, just one of the most oft-repeated myths in forestry. Well that and the one about the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. In addition "seasoning" is what a chef does to food. "Drying and seasoning" are one and the same. Seasoning is a slang term to refer to air drying. But I'm not aware of any species of wood on the planet that a 12/4 piece would take 3 years to reach EMC.
> 
> To the OP in one word "stress". Dusty is right on about that. Imagine the limb has two "layers". A layer above the horizontal pith and a layer below it. The top layer would be under great tension (trying to tear the wood fibers apart). The bottom layer would be under great compression (trying to crush the wood cells that make up the strings of wood fibers). It grows this way it's whole life. As Dusty noted once that stress is removed and it start losinh moisture those elongated (tension) and compacted (compressed) wood cells are going to freak out! It's not quite that simple but the point is limbs are notoriously unstable. My thought is why bother when you can get trunk wood so easily.



Excellent info Kevin. Thanks.


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## Dusty (Dec 3, 2012)

phinds said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> > ... 3" thick wood takes 10 to 15 years to both dry and season
> ...



The oft repeated 1 inch per year of thickness will most of the time result in air dried wood that's below 20% moisture content. It's still not ready to make a gunstock out of it. Gunstock blanks dried in a heat type kiln are dry, but the wood still has internal tension. Seasoning the wood by using a solar kiln or storing the wood in a heated shop or house lets the wood lose moisture in the daylight and then absorb moisture after dark when it cools. That relieves the stress in the wood and makes the finished stock more stable. That's why old time stockmakers won't touch an air dried blank till it's 10 to 15 years old and it helps explain why high quality gunstock blanks are so expensive. Someone had to harvest them, store them for years and absorb the loss from drying defects. Fajen's heated kilns were set on a gentle cycle of heat & cooling over a 7 month period to 'season' the blanks so they would be as stress free as possible. 

Hal


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## hobbit-hut (Dec 3, 2012)

[attachment=14296]This is Limb wood. I wonder what it will be good for. Hummmm Bolivian Rosewood what to do with it.


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## hobbit-hut (Dec 3, 2012)

[attachment=14297]Maybe something like this.


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## Kevin (Dec 3, 2012)

Bob's your uncle.


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## hobbit-hut (Dec 3, 2012)

[attachment=14299][attachment=14298]A simple mallett for the fine details of woodworking perhaps.


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## Twig Man (Dec 3, 2012)

hobbit-hut said:


> A simple mallett for the fine details of woodworking perhaps.



Love that mallet


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## HomeBody (Dec 4, 2012)

I won't be buying any limbwood blanks, I was just curious. I don't think I'll be milling any limbwood either. Thanks for the info.

I think for drying it depends on the species and also where it came from on the tree. A 12/4 walnut blank will take a while to dry if it's straight grain. If it's a crotch, it's way longer, I guess because of the curly dense grain. I found out too that you get less warpage if you dry the full slab a year or two before you cut a gunstock blank out of it. Gary


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