# How to repair a crack? Need advice!



## APBcustoms (Dec 7, 2015)

so I built a big table and after a few weeks of being inside it started to crack on the end. My guess for the reason why is my shop is outside so the moisture content being much dryer inside caused shrinkage and the stress caused it to crack. I waited about a month to see if it would continue or if other cracks would appear but this seems to be it. What do you think the best solution is?


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## Kevin (Dec 7, 2015)

2 or 3 bow tie would be my fix. get one right in the middle of the end of the crack too. What is the species.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## APBcustoms (Dec 7, 2015)

Kevin said:


> 2 or 3 bow tie would be my fix. get one right in the middle of the end of the crack too. What is the species.




I wanted to do a bow tie but he wants it to be non noticeable guess I should of stated that. Also it's pomella sapele


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## paarker (Dec 7, 2015)

Depending how thick your peice is you should be able to glue it and maybe pull it together with clamps. You might need to use a shop vac to pull the glue into the crack.

Reactions: Like 1 | +Karma 1


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## Kevin (Dec 7, 2015)

APBcustoms said:


> I wanted to do a bow tie but he wants it to be non noticeable guess I should of stated that. Also it's pomella sapele



Do 3/4 depth bow ties on the bottom. They will still do the job and not be seen. Fill crack with black epoxy - doubt you can pull that together and glue - maybe though.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## APBcustoms (Dec 7, 2015)

Kevin said:


> Do 3/4 depth bow ties on the bottom. They will still do the job and not be seen. Fill crack with black epoxy - doubt you can pull that together and glue - maybe though.



Is 9/4 so probably won't be able to pull it together instead of black epoxy do you think sawdust and epoxy mixture would be strong enough? That way it would blend in


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## Kevin (Dec 7, 2015)

yeah if you get the dust really fine like from a ROS bag. Use glue not epoxy to mix with dust.


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## woodtickgreg (Dec 7, 2015)

APBcustoms said:


> Is 9/4 so probably won't be able to pull it together instead of black epoxy do you think sawdust and epoxy mixture would be strong enough? That way it would blend in


Saw dust and ca would work too, and thinner ca would run into the crack to stop it as well. Epoxy doesn't like to flow into cracks very well, although it can be thinned to a degree with acetone, no more than 10%. But I am also with Kevin on using bowties in the bottom of the piece if they are not to be seen.

Reactions: Like 1


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## barry richardson (Dec 7, 2015)

I have fixed similar cracks by putting glue in the joint, then pulling the joint together from below with pocket hole screws, then plug the holes....


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## Kevin (Dec 7, 2015)

Barry look at that first pic - crack is mostly on top - I doubt anything is going to pull it together especially from the bottom.


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## Brink (Dec 7, 2015)

Pull it together, the stress that caused the crack will crack it again, or somewhere else.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## APBcustoms (Dec 8, 2015)

There is a smaller crack on the opposite side both are in almost the dead center opposite sides do you think it could be an overhand problem causing stress? The slab 9/4 and has about 5 inches of overhang each side


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## Mike1950 (Dec 8, 2015)

Maybe show the whole table.


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## APBcustoms (Dec 8, 2015)

I can get a picture of it all on Thursday here's the one from my Instagram

Reactions: Like 1


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## woodintyuuu (Dec 8, 2015)

APBcustoms said:


> I can get a picture of it all on Thursday here's the one from my Instagram
> 
> View attachment 92584


is this a customers table-


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## Mike1950 (Dec 8, 2015)

Trees like to crack in the middle......

Reactions: Informative 1


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## APBcustoms (Dec 8, 2015)

woodintyuuu said:


> is this a customers table-


My fathers company's


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## Kevin (Dec 8, 2015)

IMO pulling it together if even possible will not fix it because glue alone is not going to keep whatever tension is still in it from reopening it near the glue joint or finding relief elsewhere. Bow ties will keep it from getting worse probably but if there's enough tension still in it, it'll just release somewhere else. 

What was the MC when you got it? What was it when you worked and finished it? What is the MC right now? What is the RH in that room where it is?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Great Post 1


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## Kevin (Dec 8, 2015)

And did you apply the same finish and same number of coats on the bottom as you did the top?


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## APBcustoms (Dec 8, 2015)

I'm not positive on the moisture content I just got a meter the other day but it has been dried for 15 years plus the slab in my shop which is the other half where it was cut hasn't cracked. We put a dehumidifier in the room and after a few days the cracking stopped I'll get a moisture reading Thursday as well


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## APBcustoms (Dec 8, 2015)

Kevin said:


> And did you apply the same finish and same number of coats on the bottom as you did the top?


I applied two on the bottom and probably 5 on the top could that be the problem?


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## Kevin (Dec 8, 2015)

Probably not the only problem, and might not be a problem at all, but it's always best to do the bottom exactly how you do the top. Doesn't mean you have to sand through the grits the same you just want to keep both sides breathing in and out the same as closely as possible.


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## APBcustoms (Dec 8, 2015)

Kevin said:


> Probably not the only problem, and might not be a problem at all, but it's always best to do the bottom exactly how you do the top. Doesn't mean you have to sand through the grits the same you just want to keep both sides breathing in and out the same as closely as possible.



Ohh ok I had talked to a local guy for suggestions he said wipe on poly for the top and oil the bottom because of I completely sealed it. It would crack the finish. So I need to finish the whole piece with the same finish same amount?


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## Kevin (Dec 8, 2015)

APBcustoms said:


> Ohh ok I had talked to a local guy for suggestions he said wipe on poly for the top and oil the bottom because of I completely sealed it. It would crack the finish. So I need to finish the whole piece with the same finish same amount?



You're going to get differing opinions, and there are variables. I have had the best results doing as I suggested. Unless you seal the whole thing with a flood coat, the moisture transfer will still happen - if the MC was too high when you did it then yes it can do bad things to the finish and a flood coat won't stop that either - trapped mositure WILL get out somehow. 

If it was low say 6% or lower then you shouldn't have a problem. His method will also work in the right conditions and will not cup provided the slab came from in the tree and how large the tree was etc. too many variables to list. As a general rule whatever I do to the top I do to the bottom. Others will tell you different and if it works for them it is not wrong. I am surely not the finsih expert here I am just telling you what works for me.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## APBcustoms (Dec 8, 2015)

Kevin said:


> You're going to get differing opinions, and there are variables. I have had the best results doing as I suggested. Unless you seal the whole thing with a flood coat, the moisture transfer will still happen - if the MC was too high when you did it then yes it can do bad things to the finish and a flood coat won't stop that either - trapped mositure WILL get out somehow.
> 
> If it was low say 6% or lower then you shouldn't have a problem. His method will also work in the right conditions and will not cup provided the slab came from in the tree and how large the tree was etc. too many variables to list. As a general rule whatever I do to the top I do to the bottom. Others will tell you different and if it works for them it is not wrong. I am surely not the finsih expert here I am just telling you what works for me.



I'm going to go ahead and put more costs of oil on the bottom to slow down the drying.. Also do you really think a bow tie would help on the bottom even though the crack doesn't go though? I could try and do a inch and a half bow tie tail


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## APBcustoms (Dec 8, 2015)

Also thank you all so much for the help!


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## Mike1950 (Dec 8, 2015)

Kevin said:


> You're going to get differing opinions, and there are variables. I have had the best results doing as I suggested. Unless you seal the whole thing with a flood coat, the moisture transfer will still happen - if the MC was too high when you did it then yes it can do bad things to the finish and a flood coat won't stop that either - trapped mositure WILL get out somehow.
> 
> If it was low say 6% or lower then you shouldn't have a problem. His method will also work in the right conditions and will not cup provided the slab came from in the tree and how large the tree was etc. too many variables to list. As a general rule whatever I do to the top I do to the bottom. Others will tell you different and if it works for them it is not wrong. I am surely not the finsih expert here I am just telling you what works for me.



Living in Maryland and the slab being 15 yrs old there is absolutely no chance of wood being 6% in my opinion. 12-14% would be a better guess if it was not in climate control. It is VERY humid there.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## APBcustoms (Dec 8, 2015)

For sure not climate controlled!


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## Kevin (Dec 8, 2015)

Bob's your uncle.


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## Mike1950 (Dec 8, 2015)

APBcustoms said:


> For sure not climate controlled!


I figured that- we take a chunk of wood -bolt it to metal frame (show us bottom) - it has been outside- big hunk of wood- we sand and finish it. Put it inside and it is drier wants to shrink Can't because we bolted it to frame underneath and did not let it shrink- so it cracked- all speculative. - Did you allow
for movement in the way bottom metal frame is attached?? My "Guess" is you did not????

Reactions: Agree 2


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## APBcustoms (Dec 8, 2015)

Kevin said:


> Bob's your uncle.



I do have an uncle bob I'm guessing this is humor I don't get.



Mike1950 said:


> I figured that- we take a chunk of wood -bolt it to metal frame (show us bottom) - it has been outside- big hunk of wood- we sand and finish it. Put it inside and it is drier wants to shrink Can't because we bolted it to frame underneath and did not let it shrink- so it cracked- all speculative. - Did you allow
> for movement in the way bottom metal frame is attached?? My "Guess" is you did not????



I just put the slab ontop of the frame


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## Kevin (Dec 8, 2015)

APBcustoms said:


> I do have an uncle bob I'm guessing this is humor I don't get.
> 
> 
> 
> I just put the slab ontop of the frame



How did you fasten it? Show us.


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## APBcustoms (Dec 8, 2015)

It's just sitting on top it's so heavy it doesn't move


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## Mike1950 (Dec 8, 2015)

APBcustoms said:


> It's just sitting on top it's so heavy it doesn't move



That is not safe....

Reactions: Agree 1


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## APBcustoms (Dec 8, 2015)

Mike1950 said:


> That is not safe....



Well obviously I have no clue what I'm doing. Any suggestions? It's on a solid cast iron base with no holes to bolt on


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## Mike1950 (Dec 8, 2015)

APBcustoms said:


> Well obviously I have no clue what I'm doing. Any suggestions? It's on a solid cast iron base with no holes to bolt on



Pictures- My guess is that probably is was not as dry as was stated......


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## APBcustoms (Dec 8, 2015)

This a link to the base 

http://www.arhaus.com/furniture/din...s/montecito-rectangle-iron-dining-table-base/

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Kevin (Dec 8, 2015)

All things considered I'd use sliding cleats at this point. Mike is right - no matter how heavy it is it is unsafe not to fasten it.


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## Kevin (Dec 8, 2015)

And if we're going to be honest in a constructive way I'd build a frame more suited to the top. That frame is ugly and cheap looking regardless of the price you paid and in now way compliments the top. JMO.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Brink (Dec 8, 2015)

ah ha! @Kevin is a tablecist. I've seen this before.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Kevin (Dec 8, 2015)

Brink said:


> ah ha! @Kevin is a tablecist. I've seen this before.



I admit it. Tables are inferior.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## woodintyuuu (Dec 8, 2015)

APBcustoms said:


> Well obviously I have no clue what I'm doing. Any suggestions? It's on a solid cast iron base with no holes to bolt on


Austin you are in what professionals call "a quandry" good thing its your father - some lessons are earned the hard way , this is one of them >Austin do not! squander this opportunity to learn a valuable lesson, even if none of us can tell you quite what that lesson is But i thinks you are starting to get it, go boy go I will give u this > either you got big kahunas or you are desparate asking this here bunch

Reactions: Agree 2


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## duncsuss (Dec 8, 2015)

woodintyuuu said:


> either you got big kahunas or you are desparate asking this here bunch



... or both ...

Reactions: Funny 2


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## duncsuss (Dec 8, 2015)

I've never done this, so don't look to me for sensible suggestions ... but since I'm typing ... 

You could make Z-clips that are screwed to the underside of the table, arranged inside the top rails of the frame. The clips would both stop sliding and reduce the (already small) chance of tipping.

I think.


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## Kevin (Dec 8, 2015)

This is close to what I'm referring to. They'd need to be wider so the hole can be elongated to accommodate movement and maybe a little beefier, and the height would need to be about a 1/16" higher than the square tubing so it doesn't bind. Easy to make.




Two on either side of the cross members would be all your need.

Cliff is right about learning and don't feel bad - every single one of us here is still learning too. We're at different points on the curve and really we all have many points on the curve depending on what facet of wood working being discussed. One of the many things in your favor is you are willing to ask. Keep asking maybe we'll even stumble across a correct answer on occasion.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Mike1950 (Dec 8, 2015)

Only difference is the older guys have made more mistakes then you Have.......

Reactions: Agree 3


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## duncsuss (Dec 8, 2015)

Kevin said:


> This is close to what I'm referring to



That's exactly what I meant by Z-clip ... now I know the real name for them is "sliding cleat"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kevin (Dec 8, 2015)

duncsuss said:


> That's exactly what I meant by Z-clip ... now I know the real name for them is "sliding cleat"



You sure don't want to use my nomenclature Duncan. I was learnt by a sure enough country boy that literally left the farm and made good in the navy - he had weird names for everything. He got them from his dad who was born in the late 1800s when tools had regional names. I grew up being told told channel locks are called "water pumps". Reducing washers are called "chinese money". A glove box is a "car pocket". A convenience store is a "geedunk". He still uses these terms and thinks they are correct. 

He brougth me up smart though. He taught me things like "Even a spotted pig looks solid at night."

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## Brink (Dec 8, 2015)

AKA table top clip.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Mike1950 (Dec 8, 2015)

Since it was not fastened- My WAG is it was NOT 15 yrs dry. I would hold off on any major repairs - one thing I have found with thick wood- it does nothing fast but does just what It damn well pleases. Good luck.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## DKMD (Dec 8, 2015)

The bow ties on the underside seems like a reasonable solution for preventing things from worsening. 

I'm wondering if you moved the slab back to the shop and the higher humidity, would the crack close down on its own? It's worth a shot before applying the bow ties since it might save you a little trouble filling the void.

I've heard that the customer is always right, but I don't agree with your customer on hiding the bow ties. That table is all about the natural beauty of that big wooden slab with its thickness and natural edge... I'd want to celebrate the cracks too!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Schroedc (Dec 8, 2015)

Austin- First, thanks for bringing this to us. I'm guessing that for a few of us (Or at least one) that has been thinking about building a big slab table this has been informative. I have some white oak slabs that were supposed to have been dry that got moved into my shop and did the same thing after a while. 

I'd appreciate the thoughts of a few others on here with more experience than I have but you may want to wait a bit on a repair to make sure the piece is done moving if the customer will allow that or do a temporary fill with epoxy or something to hide the crack and then come back in a month or two and see if it has moved any more. I had a table top that I thought was done moving so I did a repair and then about 6 weeks later it took off on me in another spot


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## Brink (Dec 8, 2015)

That slab could have been dry, and crack free. By trimming the ends, and planing (or sanding) the surface flat could have altered internal stresses to cause a crack to develop. Sometimes, this is what big thick pieces do.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Informative 1


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## Kevin (Dec 8, 2015)

Colin, wood never stops moving even after the stress is released unless it is placed in an environment that never changes. The design goal and when choosing joinery is not to prevent wood mavement be ause it's not possible (unless in a museum etc) but rather to accommodate the movement.

Even a piece that will be placed in service in a palacial estate must still be designed as if it will end up in an environment that is not as tightly controlled, because that's what happens to furniture usually.

Only think you can hope to do is minimize the movement by environment but build to accommodate movement anyway with your design.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## barry richardson (Dec 8, 2015)

It is very rare to see a big slab of hardwood that has been around a while that doesn't check or crack, it's the nature of the beast.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## APBcustoms (Dec 12, 2015)

I originally wasn't going to take this project on, but was talked into it by my dad. I should of consulted you all in advance for advice. I knew by posting this id get harped on by you all for not doing this properly but when it comes to building something for a client being my father or somebody else. sometimes we have to swallow our pride and ask for help. so i dont know if its being desperate or slightly larger than average kahunas but you gotta do what needs to be done whether you like it or not. thank you a for the help. also as far as a learning experience; I have learned quite a bit from this. one of the things I learned was to not take on projects out of my coffort zone and also to stand up for myself with my opinions. I absolutly hate the base on this table and hated it before we purchased it. but i let my father talk me into it being his table and what he wanted. thanks again for all the help. Im going to wait till winter when the humidity goes down take the slab back to my shop. fill the cracks and take the floor sander to it and re flatten it because it seemed to cup a little bit. a also am going to put some sliding brackets on to secure it and do a few deep dovetails from the bottom to hopefully stop the cracking. lastly sine i need to take the cupping out im going to switch out the finish and seal it better on the bottom so that it will have even moisture flow throughout the piece.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kevin (Dec 12, 2015)

No one is harping on you Austin. Starts with the sane letter ... helping. You did a fine job on it. You'll do even better next time.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 2


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## woodtickgreg (Dec 12, 2015)

Austin, d0n't be so hard on yourself, making mistakes is how we learn. We all make mistakes, if your not making mistakes your not doing anything, simple as that. Just asking for help from friends is a great way to learn. And so now you know more about big slab tables than you did before you built this one, and you'll learn how to fix some problems too. All in all a good lesson.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Great Post 1


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## JR Custom Calls (Dec 12, 2015)

Just put a table cloth over it, nobody will see the crack that way, and it'll be less work on you :)

Reactions: Funny 5 | Creative 1


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## Mike1950 (Dec 12, 2015)

APBcustoms said:


> I originally wasn't going to take this project on, but was talked into it by my dad. I should of consulted you all in advance for advice. I knew by posting this id get harped on by you all for not doing this properly but when it comes to building something for a client being my father or somebody else. sometimes we have to swallow our pride and ask for help. so i dont know if its being desperate or slightly larger than average kahunas but you gotta do what needs to be done whether you like it or not. thank you a for the help. also as far as a learning experience; I have learned quite a bit from this. one of the things I learned was to not take on projects out of my coffort zone and also to stand up for myself with my opinions. I absolutly hate the base on this table and hated it before we purchased it. but i let my father talk me into it being his table and what he wanted. thanks again for all the help. Im going to wait till winter when the humidity goes down take the slab back to my shop. fill the cracks and take the floor sander to it and re flatten it because it seemed to cup a little bit. a also am going to put some sliding brackets on to secure it and do a few deep dovetails from the bottom to hopefully stop the cracking. lastly sine i need to take the cupping out im going to switch out the finish and seal it better on the bottom so that it will have even moisture flow throughout the piece.



I agree with @Kevin no one harping- just giving their thoughts. You need a moisture meter and use it. Don't take anyone's word for how dry it is. Sounds to me like it was a little damp. If you don't take on stuff out of your comfort zone you will never learn- Failure is the best teacher. Believe me I know been there and done it many times. You also might want to put in writing in your contract- it's wood and will do what it wants-incl. cracks warp etc especially with big slabs. Looks good.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Great Post 1 | +Karma 1


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## gman2431 (Dec 13, 2015)

So what was the MC of this table? 

Did you ever get a reading?


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## Mr. Peet (Dec 14, 2015)

I'm waiting to see if he used the shop vac and black epoxy, but ya the MC % is still on my mind too....

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kevin (Jan 15, 2016)

Austin how did this ever turn out?




APBcustoms said:


> I do have an uncle bob I'm guessing this is humor I don't get.



_Bob's your uncle_ is a British term that means things turned out well, like our phrase "as luck would have it!". It can also mean things turned out predictably well in spite of not starting out that way - like our phrase _"there you go!'_ . One example . . .

_I got pulled over for 135 in a 55 zone but I "accidentally" dropped a $100 in front of the policemen retrieving my license from my wallet and, Bob's your uncle, he let me off with a warning! _

@duncsuss could explain it much better, although it's not likely a right honorable King's English-speaking tea-totaling chuffed toff like Duncan would be caught using the term himself.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## duncsuss (Jan 15, 2016)

Kevin said:


> _Bob's your uncle_ is a British term that means things turned out well, like our phrase "as luck would have it!". It can also mean things turned out predictably well in spite of not starting out that way - like our phrase _"there you go!'_ . One example . . .
> 
> _I got pulled over for 135 in a 55 zone but I "accidentally" dropped a $100 in front of the policemen retrieving my license from my wallet and, Bob's your uncle, he let me off with a warning! _


Not sure about "as luck would have it" (that's a phrase I don't use).

To me, "Bob's your uncle" is the equivalent of "there you go", "that did it", the French "et voilà", "ta-daaaaah!!!"

Reactions: Like 1


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## APBcustoms (Jan 21, 2016)

Kevin said:


> Austin how did this ever turn out?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



sorry about the delay. the cracking stopped where it was and it wi be filled with dust and epoxy soon then scraped flat and finished. im still trying to talk him into letting me do a dovetail


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## Kevin (Jan 21, 2016)

APBcustoms said:


> im still trying to talk him into letting me do a dovetail



Try this on him:
_
Dad, stop being such a hardhead. I see what mom meant now, and everyone on Woodbarter says you're being a dipstick too. Just run your business and let me fix this thing the way it should be._

On second thought try that dust/epoxy thing first.......

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Mike1950 (Jan 21, 2016)

not going to hold it together with a little glue

Reactions: Agree 2


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## APBcustoms (Jan 22, 2016)

Mike1950 said:


> not going to hold it together with a little glue


hopefully once he sees that he will let me take care of it


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## Mike1950 (Jan 22, 2016)

APBcustoms said:


> hopefully once he sees that he will let me take care of it



A. as quite a few above have expressed- IS THIS WOOD DRY? If it is not no amount of glue bowties or??? will work. Wood moves for a reason- usually moisture. B. most of us have made the same mistake- make that all- thinking we can change it.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## APBcustoms (Jan 22, 2016)

Mike1950 said:


> A. as quite a few above have expressed- IS THIS WOOD DRY? If it is not no amount of glue bowties or??? will work. Wood moves for a reason- usually moisture. B. most of us have made the same mistake- make that all- thinking we can change it.



ill get a moisture reading once the snow clears itll be a few days it was at something like 12 when my dad took a reading and for maryland i think thats where it should be


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## Woodsman (Jan 31, 2016)

Honestly, it would seem to me that you might first take a moisture reading on a few other wood pieces within the same room if possible, but at least within the house that it is in. Once you have an established MC for what's in the house already, then test the table top and compare. If it's within roughly a few percent difference, fill what you've got and proceed with enjoying it. If not, it really depends on just how far apart the measurements are. If it's roughly 6 percent different, I might be inclined to leave it alone until it has reached EMC (equilibrium moisture content) and then fill it as suggested. The further away from EMC the piece measures, the more likely it is to continue on it's present course or worse. 

One of the things that happen quite often in my shop is when flattening a thick piece of wood >1.25", no matter what the MC of it is initially, it will generally read differently once you have removed a quarter inch or so of wood from its surface. Like others have mentioned, it should be allowed to dry out more before further processing as you have now opened it up to different stresses, and when drying can begin to move in whatever direction has the least resistance. That could be splitting, cracking, checking, warping, twisting, etc. I will let the wood dry again after flattening to assure that it has at least reached EMC or lower before I proceed with making a finished piece out of it.

Whatever you wind up doing to the crack, I'd definitely suggest finishing the bottom with a clear coat to help prevent moisture issues in the future. When I was first researching finishes many years ago trying to learn the properties of them and what would work best for sealing wood, I settled on Zinsser's Seal Coat, an unwaxed shellac, as all the research at the time pointed to the fact that it was superior in limiting the transfer of moisture through the finish. I have for 11 years now, applied it to all surfaces of furniture that I build. Some pieces, such as table tops, also get a finish over that on their top surface for protection from spills, cleaners, etc. I have built some pieces with wide (20"+) planks in them and thus far had no issues.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## APBcustoms (May 19, 2016)

Wow I completely spaced on this sorry guys. I did a dust glue fill three months ago and I just checked it and no separation or other cracking has appeared

Reactions: Like 5 | Great Post 2


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