# What say you?



## Lou Currier (May 24, 2017)

AAW just came out with a formal position that condemns fractal burning and prohibits it use at AAW functions and affiliations. The only articles that will mention it will be those that speak out against its use. This decision was based on two people whose death this year has been attributed to this technique. 

What do you think?


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## ripjack13 (May 24, 2017)

Got a link?


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## Lou Currier (May 24, 2017)

http://www.woodturner.org/?page=ChaptBullet20170523&hhSearchTerms="Fractal+and+burning"


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## woodtickgreg (May 24, 2017)

I think they are over reacting, jmo. 
There are risk in many things we do as wood workers.
A tree falls on a guy, better ban all the chainsaws...............

Reactions: Agree 7


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## DKMD (May 24, 2017)

I don't agree with the position. Dangerous? Yes. An opportunity for education? Yes. A ban on demonstrating or displaying fractal stuff at AAW events? Too far for my liking.

Reactions: Agree 7


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## ripjack13 (May 24, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> I think they are over reacting, jmo.
> There are risk in many things we do as wood workers.
> A tree falls on a guy, better ban all the chainsaws...............



I agree. I think they should invest their time into safe practice articles on it instead of shunning it. It's not going to go away....

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Tclem (May 24, 2017)

Any bans on power tools or electricity while they are at it ?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mike Mills (May 24, 2017)

Tclem said:


> Any bans on power tools or electricity while they are at it ?



And what about face shields? I don't think I have ever saw a personal demo where one was used (they always state it
is a hindrance when the talking).
Some have been killed by getting hair caught... if long hair must it be put up into a bun with a hair net?
Did the reports state what type of set-up they were using? It is my understanding it is the amps. A microwave at 2,000 v and +1/2 amp is much more deadly than a neon 12,000 v and 0.03 amp.


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## Nature Man (May 24, 2017)

Virtually unlimited ways to get hurt in woodworking. Better approach would be the emphasis on safe practices and recommendations on how best to go about this and all other forms of woodworking. Chuck


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## Alan Sweet (May 25, 2017)

It seems to be common affliction of the elite. They reach their positions through some individual skills and behind the scene politics. At which point, they assume the position that their opinions are correct and other opinions are not only incorrect, but must be condemned and eliminated. (Look at Washington. Dc, Civil Service and activist organizations for examples.) Rather than emphasizing individual responsibility and actions, they take the role of despot and enforcer.

It would be nice if they had made recommendations and provided some guidelines instead of trying to become social dictators.


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## rocky1 (May 25, 2017)

Actually I would be more inclined to believe it a matter of covering their ass in our litigious society. Since they are "THE" woodworking association, it is reasonable to assume that some jackass attorney is going to think they have deep pockets, regardless of whether they do or not, and the costs of defending themselves against lawsuits would bankrupt them.

Therefore they take a firm stance against the practice, to protect themselves. Were they to take a positive stance and preach safety, that simply blows them wide open for lawsuits... Didn't teach safety right, didn't warn people of this threat, didn't warn people of that threat, should have had more classes, should have had classes in a given location they didn't, should have had classes available in 87 different languages, etc. etc. etc.

Personally, I believe they've taken the ONLY POSITION they can afford to take in this matter. Been there, seen this, done this. It isn't always what you might want to do in these situations, it's what you have to do to cover your ass! In taking this position, if anyone tries to sue them, they simply say, "Uhmm NO, we have assumed a firm position against this unsafe practice, in fact, we don't even let our members show such works in shows and conventions. We don't want no part of it, that chit ain't even remotely safe!" And, they walk away.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Informative 1


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## Spinartist (May 25, 2017)

Mike Mills said:


> And what about face shields? I don't think I have ever saw a personal demo where one was used (they always state it
> is a hindrance when the talking).
> Some have been killed by getting hair caught... if long hair must it be put up into a bun with a hair net?
> Did the reports state what type of set-up they were using? It is my understanding it is the amps. A microwave at 2,000 v and +1/2 amp is much more deadly than a neon 12,000 v and 0.03 amp.




The AAW has required full face shields at its symposium demos since 2014. I had to use one demoing my tiny birdhouse ornaments there.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tony (May 25, 2017)

I agree with @rocky1, it is most likely a CYA issue. If some dam fool goes to a demo, goes home and electrocutes himself, his family will sue them and say it's their fault and they are liable. It's a shame that's the way things are these days, but that's the case. Tony

Reactions: Agree 4


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## woodman6415 (May 25, 2017)

I have to agree with @rocky1 and @Tony ... as a memeber of AAW and a officer in my local club I don't want to watch some guy electrocute himself in a demo ... but I really don't like the look of fractal burning anyway ... so so many other ways to turn wood into art ... and again they are not banning people from doing it ... just banning them from doing it where it could and would result in lawsuits against them ... I believe in the second amendment and own several guns .. but I ban anybody on my property from playing Russian roulette ... JMHO

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## CWS (May 25, 2017)

Everything we do in woodworking has dangers. I agree it is a CYA thing


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## woodman6415 (May 25, 2017)

CWS said:


> Everything we do in woodworking has dangers. I agree it is a CYA thing


Some things a lot more dangerous than others ...

Reactions: Agree 2


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