# Live edge bar help / suggestions



## calcnerd (Sep 18, 2015)

I picked up this maple flitch a couple weeks ago from a local place. It just came out of the kiln at the end of August. It's going to be a bar top for my basement. I haven't finished anything live edge before and did a lot of reading here as well as other sites.

I started to do some bark removal, but am having some issues with the stuff that's on there tightly. I was able to use a small chisel to get some of it off and picked up a draw knife, but it is very slow going. I was reading about some people using power washers as well. I don't mind spending the time to do it right. I just want to make sure I don't damage the flitch and the chisel makes me nervous.

I also have a few small cracks at the end I want to experiment with bowties on. I've read up on those and feel fairly confident after some scrap wood tests that I'll be able to handle them.

As far as finishing (after it's sanded down), I've looked at a bunch of different products. I'm not a big fan of the high gloss finishes and I know Waterlox makes a satin version. I've also looked into the self leveling epoxies, but with a natural edge on it I'm not sure how well it would do.

Any live edge experts out there that can give me their thoughts? Thanks in advance!


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## Schroedc (Sep 18, 2015)

@Brink


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## Mike1950 (Sep 18, 2015)

Poly is very durable


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## TimR (Sep 18, 2015)

Will be interesting to hear feedback, and @Brink should have some good info. I like the shape, will make a killer bar top. 
My $0.02...since it's got that rustic edge, I'd be tempted to leave any 'tight' bark on it, I'd sand then seal it with some unwaxed shellac, and start applying layers of Waterlox till it just started getting a nice satin finish, so you won't be fighting smudge marks if it plans to get good usage.
If the thought of all the detail work in making bow ties isn't for you, you can always use a biscuit joiner and make customized (for contrasting wood color) stitches...kind of a Frankenstein effect, layed in different directions, not perfectly parallel, for example.


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## Brink (Sep 18, 2015)

That some wide rear tire, Metzler?


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## Brink (Sep 18, 2015)

The bark. It might stay on, with time the slab might eject it. 

Butterflies are fairly easy to do, and I think they look nice.

For finish, I go with many coats of gloss oil based poly, then dull it down with synthetic steel wool.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


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## calcnerd (Sep 18, 2015)

The draw knife I picked up today helped me rip through the rest of the bark. I'm going to start sanding this weekend. Just going to take it to 120 then work on the bowties. Still haven't decided on a finish. From what I've read, the satin finishes don't show off grain as much as the high gloss.

Reactions: Like 1


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## calcnerd (Sep 18, 2015)

Brink said:


> That some wide rear tire, Metzler?


Avon, actually. Was rated one of the best.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike1950 (Sep 19, 2015)

calcnerd said:


> The draw knife I picked up today helped me rip through the rest of the bark. I'm going to start sanding this weekend. Just going to take it to 120 then work on the bowties. Still haven't decided on a finish. From what I've read, the satin finishes don't show off grain as much as the high gloss.



Yes but High gloss will highlight any flaws.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Brink (Sep 19, 2015)

Mike1950 said:


> Yes but High gloss will highlight any flaws.



That's why I scuff off some sheen until it looks right

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 2


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## calcnerd (Sep 19, 2015)

What do you typically do as far as sanding it down, Brink? Do you belt sand, random orbital the entire thing, etc?


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## Brink (Sep 20, 2015)

I plane them, maybe use a scraper.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Brink (Sep 20, 2015)



Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1 | EyeCandy! 1


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## Kevin (Sep 20, 2015)

If the tree was felled during the winter or fall when the sap is down then the bark is much more likely to stay on. Especially if it is still tight coming out of the kiln. I would say that it most likely was felled in one or the other seasons or the bark would have come off as the wood shrank during the drying process. If you want to ensure it stays on you can: do a 2 part monolithic epoxy pour by building a dam around the flitch. It's sort of involved and the flitch needs to have at least one nearly perfectly flat side (although not mandatory sure makes it a lot easier). Monolithic meaning you want one side of the flitch and the bark to all be tied together in one pour. Once it dries you can flip it and build your dam just below the top of the bark and tie the that side to the bark and the other.

I have done this more than once. The last time I did it was a few months ago to a cake server cookie for my bonus daughter's wedding. I used play dough for the dam but it is hard to get off where the dough and the epoxy meet. I have tried several materials and have never found one that works perfectly (at getting off) but the final results I have had are always good to excellent. I don't like the plastic looking finish of 2 part epoxy but it is an easy fix . . . just hit it with a coat or two of semi gloss poly and it looks great and the bark will never come off. I will look for the pictures of it because I did take some.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Kevin (Sep 20, 2015)

I didn't remember this last pour exactly right. I didn't even build a dam for the bottom pour; I allowed the epoxy to thicken enough that it would roll slowly (I had done this before that's why I knew it would work). I did it on top of a piece of UHMW since nothing sticks to it.






I should have built a dam though because the UHMW wasn't as flat as I had thought and it seeped underneath pretty bad. Here's what it looked like once dry....


 


No worries -- nothing a little feather sanding won't fix....


 


This picture was taken right after building the dam for the top pour. I did pull the dough away from the bark around the top enough to allow the top coat to tie into the bark before pouring...


 


The final result wasn't half bad ....


 



 

I also made a bunch of ERC cookies for the tables but didn't pour them just shot them with lacquer. If you want to do this on your bar top I can give you more details that you'll need.

Reactions: Like 5 | Way Cool 1


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## calcnerd (Sep 21, 2015)

That's awesome. Thanks Kevin!


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## calcnerd (Sep 21, 2015)

@Brink I'm not at a comfort level with hand planes I'd be willing to try what you do. I'm afraid I'd gouge it too much. What's the next best option? Belt sand it, then random orbital? If you take a look at the pictures I took tonight it's not level, and there's a slight bow. Will this be an issue as a bar top? It's not enough to affect a glass of beer.


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## Brink (Sep 22, 2015)

It's very hard, almost impossible, to gouge with a bench plane. Well set up, they take off a certain thickness shaving with each pass. Very easy to judge your progress.

The cup in the slab isn't much, and could become less, or more as seasons change.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Brink (Sep 22, 2015)

It's very hard, almost impossible, to gouge with a bench plane. Well set up, they take off a certain thickness shaving with each pass. Very easy to judge your progress.

The cup in the slab isn't much, and could become less, or more as seasons change.


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## jmurray (Sep 22, 2015)

I've used a router to flatten slabs with lots of cup. But you still have to plane/ sand afterwards. I'm nowhere near as skilled with hand tools as brink, but I agree with him that the hand plane does a dang good job of flattening/ smoothing. 
Easier to make a gouge with a belt sander than a hand plane, IMO.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## calcnerd (Sep 22, 2015)

@Brink with the curve not being much, would you recommend spending the time to hand plane it down, or just sand it to where I want and seal it as it will most likely flex anyways?

Thanks so much for all the info so far, everyone!


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## Kevin (Sep 22, 2015)

Tim a jointing plane is actually the best (and easiest) choice for that flitch. Hand planes are not hard to use - but for those that never have used them the mystique surrounding hand work makes them think of fhe opulence of 16th century Baroque pieces that looked like they were made by gods ..... or apes. 

I have a power hand planer that I use for rough work for mostly construction trim and finish but I prefer my Stanley #7 jointer for woodworking. I have a planer wide enough for many slabs and flitches but it doesn't actually joint or flatten like a power jointer or hand jointer so for pieces too wide for my 8" jointer I will grab the Stanley without thought.

Get yourself a hand jointer -- there's really no better way to introduce yourself to hand tools than flattening a board with a hand jointer. It's not hard if you know how to keep it sharp. You'll want to make your passes at about 45 degrees on that flitch and you'll figure out the rest once you see fresh wood showing up in the valley.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 4


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## brown down (Sep 23, 2015)

hand planes are a joy to work with and an addiction as most hand tools are! like kevin said they are easy but the irons must be razor sharp! you can make a sled for a router but i would rather be standing in a pile of shavings then breathing in fine dust and hearing a motor scream in my ears! I only own up to a number 6 scrub plane but my go to hand plane is my 5 ½ jack plane! if you do get yourself a hand plane grab an old candle and zig zag the sole of the plane makes it glide like butter!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## calcnerd (Sep 24, 2015)

@Kevin can you recommend a hand jointer?


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## Kevin (Sep 24, 2015)

calcnerd said:


> @Kevin can you recommend a hand jointer?



I have a 22" Stanley #7 but it's the only hand jointer I have ever owned so I'm not a good one to ask for comparisons. @Brink is pretty much the man knuckle-dragger to ask about hand tools. My guess is just about any hand jointer you get will work for you provided it is well sharpened and properly adjusted and used. You don't *have* to use a jointer plane to flatten a board, but with a wide one like yours especially, the longer the plane the faster you'll be able to flatten it with the least amount of curl on the floor. 

Here's a pretty good video where the guy uses a LN jack plane to take out twist. Removing cup is easier than removing twist but you'll use the same basic techniques. The background music is quite nice too . . . . . Celtic. :-)


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## Brink (Sep 24, 2015)

I never use a jointer on table tops, either a jack (#5) or a fore (#6). Any flatter than these two planes can produce are nearly undetectable.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## brown down (Sep 24, 2015)

I couldn't agree more! a Jack plan is called that for the very reason its the JACK of all planes! I can join an edge/ smooth a board or flatten damn near any surface with that plane alone! IMO if there is any plane that you are going to introduce yourself to I would recommend the JACK plane!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Kevin (Sep 25, 2015)

I agree a jack plane can flatten a board but so can a block plane - eventually. Jointer planes exist for a reason and that's because they excel at making wood flat *more efficiently* than shorter planes. Flattening an edge is called jointing but they flatten the face every bit as well so if they were called flattening planes they'd probably be more accepted more readily by hardheaded jointer haters. It would be pretty hard to argue that a shorter plane can flatten a board just *as efficiently* as a longer one. It can get it just as flat eventually but it'll have to remove more material to do so. Is it negligible? For your average short not-so-wide boards yes it is negligible. But for a large table top the difference is worth picking up a jointer plane over any other. Why wouldn't you unless you just want to remove more material and take longer.

Tim to try and answer your question which was to recommend a hand jointer - I don't see how you can go wrong with the Stanley - best bang for the buck IMO. Ebay is full of good buys on them. But just to be clear, I am in no way sayng a jonter is the first plane you should buy normally fpr general purposes - I only recommended it because you seem to be doing table tops and that's the best plane to buy for that task yes even better than a jack or anything else IMO. And as you can see they are cheap relatively speaking. You can buy one for less than you'd have to pay someone at a cabinet shop to flatten it for you, and you will always have it. JMO.


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## Brink (Sep 25, 2015)

Ughhh. @Kevin, for efficient flattening, why is my #40 scrub such a dinky little thing? It's used to knock down the high spots. By using straight edges and winding sticks, high spots are marked, then knocked down. After the scrub, anything from a 5 on up can be used. There's no more efficiency in using a long plane vs a shorter one.


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## Kevin (Sep 25, 2015)

I value your hand tool opinions Brink, and even agree with them most of the time.


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## Brink (Sep 25, 2015)

But not this time, correct?


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## Kevin (Sep 25, 2015)

Correct.


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## brown down (Sep 25, 2015)

don't get me wrong a jointer plane is on my hit list but thats after I get a scrub plane. I have no where near the time brink has with hand tools but I prefer to do all hand tool work as opposed to power tools. I am with brink on this one that you don't need a long plane to get the same results! I was only recommending the jack plane as a first plane just due to the fact of how useful it is compared to other planes. you can't use a jointer plane to smooth a board but you can use a smoothing plane to join wood if that makes sense! paul sellers number one plane is a # 4! If I was just getting into woodworking and was going to purchase my first plane I would have bought my jack plane. I rarely use my fore plane I primarily use my 5 ½ and go to my # 4 from there! here is a great video of why the #5 is the best overall hand plane out there! I am def not trying to argue over which is the best plane out there just trying to put my 2 cents in on something I have a passion for! planes are not cheap so that being said I want to point tim in the best direction. a jointer plane is limited on what you can use it for other than this bar top and if he has smaller projects he is limited on what he is able to flatten where a ;jack plane you aren't! 

skip to about 9:20 or so he gets into the different planes 
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/woodworking-hand-tools/handplane-need


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