# Chain Saw Chain Sharpening



## Graybeard

My son in law borrowed my Stihl 290 (18 inch bar) chain saw. When I went to use it today it was really grabby and would stall out. I got more dust than chips so I stopped and touched it up with a file and guide. It worked better but still was much grabbier than I remember it ever being. Does that sound like the rakers are not where they should be? Probably time to have a pro sharpen it.

Wonder what you all think of a skip tooth chain for this saw? I only use it for bigger pieces. I have a Stihl 025 with a 16 inch bar that I use most of the time.

Thanks for your help.

Graybeard


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## Kevin

You shouldn't ever need a skip tooth for that saw. A sharp chain is all you need. Sounds like the chain is dull. Unless he put a couple of sharps on it, you shouldn't need to file the rakers unless one or more of the few sharps the chain has had was done poorly or incorrectly. Take t to get a pro sharp (if you know of a good one - not all shops know how or will to sharpen right) and see how it does. 

(chain saws do not use blades they use chains on a bar )


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## SDB777

Bailey's sells a 'raker guide'.....

Last thing I'd do with a good loop of chain is let a 'pro' sharpen it....since it will more then likely be thrown on a grinder of some sort, you will be dealing with 'tempering'. That means the next time you go to 'touch it up' you will be struggling with a file to do anything....



Scott (grinder = really bad) B


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## Kevin

SDB777 said:


> ... you will be dealing with 'tempering'. That means the next time you go to 'touch it up' you will be struggling with a file to do anything.......



Grinders get a real bad rap. I have a grinder and do use if I have a lot of chains to sharpen or if I have one that got into some rock or something. I can grind chain without tempering it, as can anyone that will take the time. And it doesn't take that much more time to do it right. When I grind a tooth, you can put your finger on it immediately and not feel any discernible heat. I also hand sharpen those very same chains in the field and can hand sharpen one quickly, so I know I do not temper them. 

The reason grinding chain gets a bad rap is because most shops are going to ram that wheel down onto the chain and turn it red hot - hell yes that will temper it! That's why I always advise someone to make sure the shop not only knows how to properly grind chain, but that they will actually take the few extra minutes to do it right.

(chain grinding done properly is not bad).


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## SDB777

I stand corrected....the three shops within 15 miles of my location will hand you a loop that has the tempering color tones from the grind. When you say something to them about it, they laugh and tell you that you should be happy they are so sharp(even though the loop is pretty much ruined)!

Kevin is very correct, a person that takes pride in what they do will probably give you back a great product. But I tend to err on the side of "that's-my-money-your-destroying".....so now I sharpen my own loops(makes for a nice day inside when it's cold and rainy). You can always try asking to see some loops that they have done in your local shop for other customers first. If they don't want to show you their work, I'd find another shop.

And no, I won't even go to these three shops to get parts.....they lost all my business-forever!





Scott (chain grinding improperly = very bad) B


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## Graybeard

Sometimes us old guys have a hard time remembering the right word. I tried to edit the title but can't figure out how to do it. 

Thanks for the help BTW

Graybeard


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## manbuckwal

In my experience grabby usually indicates that the rakers have been taken down too far, especially if you are getting dust and not chips.


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## DKMD

I did a little sawing and filing today on some silver maple, and I remembered how little I actually know about either. In fact, I don't know a lot about chainsaws at all! I've got a farmboss with an 18" bar... Stock chain. My saw cuts better after I file, but I'm sure I'm not doing it properly.

Any of you saw masters know of an online place where I could do a little reading about proper chain sharpening techniques? The Stihl dealer in town offers sharpening services, but I don't know if they do a good job.

Edit: here's a little piece of that maple... Gonna core it tomorrow. About 18x9 currently...

Reactions: Like 3


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## Kevin

Graybeard said:


> Sometimes us old guys have a hard time remembering the right word. I tried to edit the title but can't figure out how to do it.
> 
> Thanks for the help BTW
> 
> Graybeard



Beard, I still sometimes use "blade" too. It's rare, but old habits die hard. We all grow up hearing those we respect calling them "blades" so we figure it must be right. They grew up hearing them called blades by most people too. I changed your title to what it is now. let me know if you'd like a different one. Keep us posted on what you find out about the chain. Too low rakers *can* cause bumpity as Tom said, so that's also possible. It's just that I have never ground my rakers too low so hard for me to relate (where's that long nose pinnochio smiley).


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## woodtickgreg

I sharpen both ways, buy hand with a file and that's my preferred method. And with a grinder, the trick with a grinder is a light and quick touch. Sometimes it takes several touches on each tooth. Lingering for any time at all on a tooth will overheat it. Also only take of as much material as is needed to get it sharp, a chain that has hit the dirt or a nail will take a lot of work. A clean and dressed grinding wheel also helps. Another thing that guys often don't think about is that files wear out too, buy new ones often, they are cheap. The only way rakers will cause a chain to be grabby is when they have been taken down too much. I have had an aggressive raker grind that only I could use and not my friends, I had to keep the rpm up and in the sweet spot. That grind was a fast cutter if you knew how to run it, but that's not good for most people. And then there's the pro shops that use diamond wheels for sharpening.............


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## Kevin

Greg, the way I have used chains with rakers ground too low (I have never done that haha) is to bury the spikes in the log and stand on the saw. With enough power like my and your saws have it's a wicked cool experience. Homeowner and ranch saw cannot do that - they bog and die.

Disclaimer: For those who do ot know logging slang, "standing on the saw" does not actually mean you are standing on the saw. It means you are throwing all your body weight into the saw cutting as aggressively as possible without the inability to avoid the chain should you lose your grip and otherwise fall into it.


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## woodtickgreg

Kevin said:


> Greg, the way I have used chains with rakers ground too low (I have never done that haha) is to bury the spikes in the log and stand on the saw. With enough power like my and your saws have it's a wicked cool experience. Homeowner and ranch saw cannot do that - they bog and die.
> 
> Disclaimer: For those who do ot know logging slang, "standing on the saw" does not actually mean you are standing on the saw. It means you are throwing all your body weight into the saw cutting as aggressively as possible without the inability to avoid the chain should you lose your grip and otherwise fall into it.


So true Kevin, a fountain of chips! When I was milling with duck there was a few times I really leaned into it. I have an aggressive grind on my little echo, I showed the duck what it could do to a large white oak, made quick work of it. LOL With my husky I use the spikes all the time and just pull as hard as it will let me. Nothing like a well tuned and sharp saw doing it's thing!

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## manbuckwal

I love my Husky 288 !!!! She makes the chips fly


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## manbuckwal

DKMD said:


> I did a little sawing and filing today on some silver maple, and I remembered how little I actually know about either. In fact, I don't know a lot about chainsaws at all! I've got a farmboss with an 18" bar... Stock chain. My saw cuts better after I file, but I'm sure I'm not doing it properly.
> 
> Any of you saw masters know of an online place where I could do a little reading about proper chain sharpening techniques? The Stihl dealer in town offers sharpening services, but I don't know if they do a good job.
> 
> Edit: here's a little piece of that maple... Gonna core it tomorrow. About 18x9 currently...
> View attachment 34872



Doc here's a reliable file guide if you want to do it yourself . We use em frequently to teach people how to sharpen correctly .
http://www.baileysonline.com/Chains...gon-Professional-Bar-Mounted-Filing-Guide.axd

Or if you have a couple chains that need sharpening, u can ship em to me in a SFRB and I'll sharpen em for ya !!!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Graybeard

I took the chain to the shop I got the saw from and had him take a look at the chain. I've been sharpening it wrong with different angles and a hook on some of the teeth. The rakers hadn't been touched.

I'm looking into getting another Granberg G-106 so I keep the angle the same from tooth to tooth.

What do you think of this tutorial, looks good to me but since I'm learning I'd appreciate some feedback.






Graybeard


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## Graybeard

Bump - Everyone agree the video is a good one?

Graybeard


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## DKMD

It looks like that will do the trick. I'm still kicking around the idea of a different sharpener... I got the idea from a link that Kevin posted a while back.


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## manbuckwal

Graybeard said:


> Bump - Everyone agree the video is a good one?
> 
> Graybeard


Yes that is a good file guide for beginners .


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## woodtickgreg

I can't really comment on the file guides, I have never used one, I was taught by a tree cutter in the field on a stump with a cut of branch for a file handle. It really is not that difficult, don't put to much into it. I would say that if you can clamp the bar in a vise in your garage, shop, shed, wherever, it is easier to keep the angles. I do all the teeth on one side and then turn the saw around in the vise and do the teeth on the other side. That way it's easier to be consistent with your angles. Once you do this a few times your brain will remember how it feels and how to hold the file to hit the angles. You really want to learn how to do this free hand so you can do it in the field as needed. I don't need anything but a file to sharpen my chain, and I'll put my hand filed chain against any machine ground chain and out cut it, and I too use a chain grinder in my shop. Having the proper size file is really more important, it's the top of the cutter that does the most cutting, if your file is too small it may not touch the top of the cutter. If you look at some chain cutters there is a line scored into the top of the cutter tooth, just hold the file parallel with that line, it's about 25 or 30 Degrees. I wish I was near you, I could teach you how to do this in a few minutes. If the shop won't show you how, maybe ask a tree cutter.

Reactions: Like 3


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## NYWoodturner

woodtickgreg said:


> You really want to learn how to do this free hand so you can do it in the field as needed.



Amen. Your only other option is to change the chain in the field. I'd rather hit a few licks with file.


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## sprucegum

The local small engine guy uses a grinder to harden chains for the home owner types who do not hand file, he says they stay sharp longer and no one is going to file them anyway. I occasionally have him grind one if I really dull it bad like the time I sawed into part of a old cast iron stove. When he grinds mine he uses 3 or 4 quick light touches per tooth. I like hand filing as it gives you more options depending on the wood being cut, I will file a saw differently for frozen maple than I do for white pine in the summer.


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## Graybeard

Thanks for the replies. Some of you guys are pros and have done this for a long time. I'm sure in time I'll learn a few tricks of the trade too. As a beginner that screwed up hand filing I'll use the jig to see if I can establish a baseline and learn from there.

Thanks again,

Graybeard

Reactions: Like 1


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## woodtickgreg

Graybeard said:


> Thanks for the replies. Some of you guys are pros and have done this for a long time. I'm sure in time I'll learn a few tricks of the trade too. As a beginner that screwed up hand filing I'll use the jig to see if I can establish a baseline and learn from there.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Graybeard


There's no shame in using a jig, it will teach you how to keep an angle and get a feel for the file. After awhile you won't need the jig as your confidence grows.


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## SDB777

sprucegum said:


> The local small engine guy uses a grinder to harden chains for the home owner types who do not hand file, he says they stay sharp longer and no one is going to file them anyway. I occasionally have him grind one if I really dull it bad like the time I sawed into part of a old cast iron stove. When he grinds mine he uses 3 or 4 quick light touches per tooth. I like hand filing as it gives you more options depending on the wood being cut, I will file a saw differently for frozen maple than I do for white pine in the summer.




Grinders won't help a chain stay sharper any longer if the chain runs through metal in the timber, or even rocks on the ground. I would call that almost 'dishonest product endorsement'....JMHO.

If a grinder is used, the quick 'taps' are about the best way to do it...as long as the grinding wheel is rounded. A new wheel can/will leave a squared corner in the chain, making it impossible to 'touch-up' with a file in the field.





Scott (I have many jigs laying around) B


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## HomeBody

woodtickgreg said:


> Having the proper size file is really more important, it's the top of the cutter that does the most cutting, if your file is too small it may not touch the top of the cutter.



Thanks Greg. I think I found my problem. File too small and not making good contact with the top of the cutter. Gary

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## woodtickgreg

HomeBody said:


> Thanks Greg. I think I found my problem. File too small and not making good contact with the top of the cutter. Gary


Very good, as you are sharpening the tooth you will feel a little burr on the top of the cutter from the filing. Do not be too concerned about the burr and think you have to remove it, you don't, it just tells you that you have a sharp edge, it will come off as soon as you bury the chain in some wood.


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## HomeBody

Come to think of it, my file is a 4mm or 5mm or some such metric number. My chain is a 3/8" X 0.50" X 28". Seems to me they would have a file measured in 32nd's for SAE chain instead of metric. Maybe it's not that big of a difference. The guy told me there were 2 sizes of chainsaw files, "regular" and "big". I take it there might be more that this available. Gary


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## woodtickgreg

HomeBody said:


> Come to think of it, my file is a 4mm or 5mm or some such metric number. My chain is a 3/8" X 0.50" X 28". Seems to me they would have a file measured in 32nd's for SAE chain instead of metric. Maybe it's not that big of a difference. The guy told me there were 2 sizes of chainsaw files, "regular" and "big". I take it there might be more that this available. Gary


You need to find another place to get your files, he may only carry 2 sizes but there are many. Look at what Baileys has to offer online for some ideas. There are also many manufacturers of files. Heck home depot has more than 2 sizes! LOL. I don't even notice what the fractional dimension is of my files anymore, I can just look at one and know if it is correct or not.


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## sprucegum

HomeBody said:


> Come to think of it, my file is a 4mm or 5mm or some such metric number. My chain is a 3/8" X 0.50" X 28". Seems to me they would have a file measured in 32nd's for SAE chain instead of metric. Maybe it's not that big of a difference. The guy told me there were 2 sizes of chainsaw files, "regular" and "big". I take it there might be more that this available. Gary


I think the 3/8 is the length of the drivers .050 is the thickness of the material they are made of and the 28 is the number of drivers I am sure Greg who works in a small engine shop can tell you for sure. When I buy a chain for my steil I ask for a 72/72 (72 gauge chain with 72drivers). My saws use a 9/32" file I think the smaller ones take a 7/32" I like frost bite brand files there are a couple places local that carry them. A good cutting file is a big help and is safer to use as you can get good results with very little pressure. I once put a 4 stitch gash in my finger when a dull file slipped. If you purchase your files by the box of 12 you can usually get good files for less than $2.00 each. I usually can file a chain for all of it's useful life with one file if I keep the file clean and dry, the ones that rattle around in the tractor toolbox don't last that long.

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## manbuckwal

sprucegum said:


> I think the 3/8 is the length of the drivers .050 is the thickness of the material they are made of and the 28 is the number of drivers I am sure Greg who works in a small engine shop can tell you for sure. When I buy a chain for my steil I ask for a 72/72 (72 gauge chain with 72drivers). My saws use a 9/32" file I think the smaller ones take a 7/32" I like frost bite brand files there are a couple places local that carry them. A good cutting file is a big help and is safer to use as you can get good results with very little pressure. I once put a 4 stitch gash in my finger when a dull file slipped. If you purchase your files by the box of 12 you can usually get good files for less than $2.00 each. I usually can file a chain for all of it's useful life with one file if I keep the file clean and dry, the ones that rattle around in the tractor toolbox don't last that long.


Actually the 3/8" refers to pitch .........The PITCH is the distance measured between the center of three link rivets, divided by 2.

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## woodtickgreg

manbuckwal said:


> Actually the 3/8" refers to pitch .........The PITCH is the distance measured between the center of three link rivets, divided by 2.


Ding ding ding! That's correct! And we have a winner! LOL. 
First number is chain pitch between rivets, second is plate thickness, third is number of drive links or the teeth inside the chain.

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## HomeBody

Bought a couple of 7/32" files yesterday. They say "5.5mm". I believe the file I was using was a 5mm. I'll be filing today. Hope it works. Gary

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