# Question on Mandrels, etc...



## trc65 (Oct 26, 2019)

So, decided I should turn a couple pens and am slowly sorting through the hundreds of options, styles and suppliers. 

Thought I understood the equipment until I started to see mention of "A" and"B" sized mandrels, not to mention "7mm" mandrels that are actually 6.2mm. Then during a search that recommended only using bushings from the same supplier as the mandrel.

I've got the Craft Supplies adjustable mandrel (that I use for cigar tubes), should I stick with kits/ bushings from them, or will it be good for bushings from other suppliers? Should it also be good for "A" sized bushings? I know I'll need a "B" mandrel for B bushings.


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Oct 26, 2019)

if you're good with a caliper, you can measure the pen kit and turn down to that size w/o having to buy a bunch of bushings.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Tony (Oct 26, 2019)

https://woodbarter.com/threads/so-you-want-to-start-turning-pens.25190/


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## trc65 (Oct 26, 2019)

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> if you're good with a caliper, you can measure the pen kit and turn down to that size w/o having to buy a bunch of bushings.



Plan on doing that in the future, but thought to get started I'd get some bushings until I've got a few under my belt.

Reactions: Like 1


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## trc65 (Oct 26, 2019)

Tony said:


> https://woodbarter.com/threads/so-you-want-to-start-turning-pens.25190/




Read it several times, but unless I missed it, couldn't find info on any differences between mandrel/bushing manufacturers. 

Craft supplies specifically state that their mandrel is not guaranteed to accept bushings from other brands of pen mandrels. Just wondering if this is a potential problem, or just marketing crap to keep you buying supplies from them.


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## Tony (Oct 26, 2019)

trc65 said:


> Read it several times, but unless I missed it, couldn't find info on any differences between mandrel/bushing manufacturers.
> 
> Craft supplies specifically state that their mandrel is not guaranteed to accept bushings from other brands of pen mandrels. Just wondering if this is a potential problem, or just marketing crap to keep you buying supplies from them.



I couldn't remember if it was covered or not, but it's a great thread with a ton of useful knowledge. I can't help with the mandrel question, I turn between centers with bushings.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## trc65 (Oct 26, 2019)

That's sounds like a good plan, then I won't have to worry about fitting bushings to mandrels and buying unneeded equipment.


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## Tony (Oct 26, 2019)

trc65 said:


> That's sounds like a good plan, then I won't have to worry about fitting bushings to mandrels and buying unneeded equipment.



Also don't have to worry about the mandrel bending and getting things turned off center.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Wildthings (Oct 26, 2019)

I think everybody (self included) starts with mandrels and ends up turning between center (with or without bushings). My advice would be to start with TBC with bushing and go from there. I always had problems with something when using mandrels. There's a few of them stuck in the garage walls at the old house.

Reactions: Like 1


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## T. Ben (Oct 27, 2019)

I started with a pen state mandrel and mandrel saver,never had any problem with other companies bushings,I have since move to tbc even with dual tube pens.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Wildthings (Oct 27, 2019)

T. Ben said:


> I started with a pen state mandrel and mandrel saver,never had any problem with other companies bushings,I have since move to tbc even with dual tube pens.


But one at a time? Correct?


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## T. Ben (Oct 27, 2019)

Wildthings said:


> But one at a time? Correct?


Yes,one at a time.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Diver Temple (Oct 27, 2019)

I have the adjustable pen mandrel https://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKM-FLC.html and a variety of the bushing kits for the various pen kits I buy until I had a good assortment to mix and match as a new kit demands. all the various size tubes makes for a few packs, but I realized that regardless of the right kit or not, the ends of the pieces almost always needed fine tuning past the sizing to the bushing. So I us my calipers to get it close and then finish the fine tuning with a 2" sanding disk on the mandrel with the pieces centered between the teflon bushings.

When you measure your pen pieces for the final fit, keep in mind the add-0n of material you will create with CA, if you're using it. I highly recommend the teflon bushings, which you can turn yourself from teflon rods, but they are cheap and you don't have to drill and turn...you can finish on the metal bushings, but you will spend time cleaning the CA off of them to keep them fitting correctly. 

I use the adjustable mandrel so I can shorten it up to a single tube to ensure it stays turning true as possible when for some reason I can't get the off-center that starts up sometime when I pull the pieces off to check fit and move to the teflon bushings. I have used the same mandrel for the last 10 months with no issues. I have no problem turning dual piece pens at the same time, but I do make sure I have it centered real well and there is no wobble on the tail stock. If you use the mandrel saver https://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKMSTS2.html use a couple wraps of painters tape or maskding tape on teh threads. It will not only help save your threads, but it will take up any play between your mandrel OD and pensave ID. 

I have only been turning pens for 10 months, so there are a lot of tips and tricks I have yet to learn. One thing I did learn the hard way on CA, as there are a lot of videos on different ways to apply, wrap your finger tips in blue painters tape, use white paper towel pieces, small and folded a couple of times, I run about 300 RPM, apply the CA to the paper towel and wipe on as evenly as possible before it starts to set. You'll get the time down with a few pens. I let the first pass airdry about 20 seconds and hit it with accelerator. Then 4 more coats of thin, followed by 2 coats of medium, and 1 more coat of thin to help fill in the light ripples. Accelerator between each coat or you will get bubbles... Be ready to pull the paper towel pieces off with your taped free hand, once the CA starts to set, the paper towel will set to the tape and burn you real quick. I tried vairous surgical gloves that didn't help, and cost more than the tape...

Latest pens



 

 this weekend...

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1 | EyeCandy! 1 | Great Post 2


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## T. Ben (Oct 27, 2019)

Great pens,I’ve been wanting to turn one of the Phoenix pens with the inlay.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## trc65 (Oct 27, 2019)

Thanks Mo, lots of great info in your post!

I'll plan to do some with a CA finish, just to get that method down, but plan on trying/using the dipping method that @rdabpenman (Les) developed. 

Will probably get a bunch of extra tubes with my first pen order just to play with methods using less expensive wood.

BTW, those are some great looking pens you posted!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Diver Temple (Oct 27, 2019)

trc65 said:


> Thanks Mo, lots of great info in your post!
> 
> !


I need to try the dipping method. I've tried a few different friction finishes, which does real well on natural wood grains. But when it comes to the stabilized and dyed burls and anything curly, CA is my go-to. I like Les' pens, but I think I am focused on the one-and-done so not doing a lot at once has me staying with the CA for now.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Diver Temple (Oct 27, 2019)

T. Ben said:


> Great pens,I’ve been wanting to turn one of the Phoenix pens with the inlay.



If you haven't done an inlay kit, bright light and magnifying glass combo...and patience. I've only done the eagle and flag inlay, and it was easy enough but the little starts kept popping out of my fingers. Should have bought some tweezers. I used it for a different size pen and tube diameter than it was made for, so I glued in an oak dowel to keep it from splitting on the redrill, added segments to either end and redrilled to a larger blank. The only thing I don't like is the straight blank you end up with, I like adding a little shape to them most of the time, so for what I am doing I need to put in a cast to add material to fit a grenade pen. Have fun with it an post some pics!


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## T. Ben (Oct 27, 2019)

I did the flame inlay on a motorcycle pen,it will be awhile before I do the Phoenix one,but I do eyeball it everytime i pickup the catalog.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Patrude (Oct 27, 2019)

I start my pens with a mandrel and bushings (penn state Industries mandrel saver package) $29.95 next is between centers with bushings close to finish diameter. I finish by measuring the kit with calipers and turn , sand and polish between centers without any bushings being careful not to apply too much tailstock pressure which could flare the tube. I've turned kits from different manufacturers on the same mandrel with no problems

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## Diver Temple (Oct 27, 2019)

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> if you're good with a caliper, you can measure the pen kit and turn down to that size w/o having to buy a bunch of bushings.


I like the bushings for a target to get close to, I tend to go thin without something to help me see the goal. A few hundred more, I may not worry about them, but until then...

Reactions: Like 3


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## rdabpenman (Oct 29, 2019)

TBC and never have an Out of Round pen blank ever again
along with no mandrel issues to deal with.

Les

Reactions: Like 4


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## trc65 (Oct 29, 2019)

Thanks Les, great article!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Maverick (Oct 30, 2019)

Hi Les, I am a complete novice. I use the mandrel saver. I am trying to figure out the difference between TBC with the bushings as demonstrated in your PDF (which is very helpful btw) and using the mandrel saver. Aren't the pressure points the same or will the saver still cause the mandrel to bow if too much pressure is put on it?

Thanks,


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Oct 30, 2019)

It will cause the mandrel to bow if too much pressure is applied. Put in on your lathe empty and run your tail stock up. Put a little pressure on it, then a little more. You will see it bow.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Maverick (Oct 30, 2019)

Thanks Eric, I guess I have been lucky so far and have not experienced that issue. But I try not to be too heavy handed when adjusting the tail stock etc to the bushings. Appreciate the explanation. I will have to give TBC a try.


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## trc65 (Oct 30, 2019)

I've already bought the carbide tipped live and dead centers. Couldn't find carbide tipped at any of the usual WW turning suppliers, but found both on ebay for great prices. I will probably not bother with a mandrel at all and do everything TBC.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Gdurfey (Oct 30, 2019)

John, I’m using the mandrel saver and doing much better at not deflecting the mandrel. I just haven’t tried between centers yet. Myself, I use the bushings even though I’m not doing production turning. That is, trying to do 10-50 at a time...... just the way I started. Sure have enjoyed this conversation, glad you started it.

Reactions: Like 1


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