# Tips



## MikeMD (Mar 4, 2014)

I know this site has a lot of turners of differing skills. The best thing about forums is that we ALL can learn from others. There are many reasons why people post pics of their work. Often it is because they are proud of what they accomplished. Often, they want support for their accomplishments. Ultimately, I believe we all want to grow, further our skills, and improve. There are also "lurkers" that don't post, but read and absorb. But in doing so, are trying to learn from others.

I'd like to start this thread out by offering up some tips to turners, new turners and seasoned turners alike. Anyone that wants to add tips is free to do so, and I hope this thread helps those that strive to better their skills and turnings to produce pieces that they look back on, smile, and say, "I did that?" (in a good way).

FORM:

There is a simple rule of thirds that turners (and just about all artists) like to follow. It is a rule. Rules are meant to be broken. You DON'T have to live by, abide by, or be restricted by the rule of thirds. That said, there is a reason for it...it is appealing to the eye. So, if you do stick to the rule, you kinda can't go wrong. What is the rule of thirds? Simply, height to width should be 1/3 of one another. The foot should be 1/3 of the diameter of the bowl. You get the picture. Again, this rule can be played with, altered, thrown away.

Smooth consistent curves are key. Really try to make your curves flow. Try to reduce or eliminate flat spots along your curves. Try to make one flowing curve instead of compound curves. Of course, once you master the single curve, then venture into compounds like ogees (a VERY tough curve to get "right").

FINISHING:

One thing you will NEVER see in a gallery piece done by a professional turner is tool and sanding marks. Why? Because they shouldn't be there! There should be NO evidence of them. It isn't difficult to get rid of them. But it DOES take time, patience, and attention to detail. I see it as pride in my work. As Bill Grumbine says, there's nothing wrong with the 80 grit gouge. And he's right! At some point, you might end up starting with the 120 grit gouge. Eventually, maybe even the 220 grit gouge (as your starting point for sanding). But ridding your turnings of tool marks makes all the difference in the world. And sanding marks are no different! Take your time sanding. Go through ALL the grits. Don't get lazy and skip a grit. When a sanding pad gets worn, toss it (or use it for some detail hand sanding for another time). If people don't ask you, "How do you get it so smooth?!", you aren't spending enough time sanding.

Whatever finish you use (walnut oil, WTF, poly, Danish oil, Tung oil, lacquer, varnish, CA, friction polish, whatever) do it right. Put on as many as is recommended. Don't allow drip marks. If you get them, take the time to sand them out and start over. Avoid rushing through and applying too heavy of a coat. If using poly, try not to apply in high humidity, or you'll get "orange peel". But if you do get orange peel, sand it back until your surface is smooth, and start re-applying. Don't just say "good enough".

PICTURES:

So, you spent hours and hours turning, sanding, and finishing your bowl (or other turning). Then you go to take a pic with your cell phone? Really? Put that turning in the light (figuratively and literally) that it deserves to be in. The best way to show off your work is to show it as best you can. Your works deserve it. YOU deserve it. I used to not believe in editing pics of my turnings. Keller changed my mind. I'm not sure if it was him, or someone else, but somehow was turned onto Picasa (a free software download) that is a really easy editor. You can straighten you photos, crop the image, adjust the contrast and color...in just a few minutes. And YES, it makes a difference.

SUMMERY:

Bottom line is that we all take pride in our work. Maybe to different degrees, but some sort of pride. Going that extra mile will, in the long run, make you feel better about yourself and your work. And you will grow as a turner. And don't forget to ask for C&C (comments and critique) from fellow turners, whether here on this forum, on other forums, from turning friends, family, strangers, anyone. And HONEST C&C is the ONLY way you will learn. I have a rule here in my house. When my in-laws and wife see any of my new turnings, they aren't allowed to just say oooooh, ahhhhh, OMG, that's beautiful. They have to say what they like about it, and what they don't. There is ALWAYS something anyone can say isn't perfect about an item. Don't be afraid to listen to/hear honest opinions. It is the only way you'll grow. Otherwise, you'll keep making the same "mistakes".

If anyone wants to add "tips" on how to improve as a turner, feel free!

Reactions: Like 3 | Thank You! 1 | Agree 1 | Great Post 12 | Informative 1


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## DKMD (Mar 5, 2014)

Nice thread, Mike. I'll add a thing or two as they come to mind.

Tip: take your piece off the lathe while it's still in the chuck and orient it as it will be viewed... It's amazing how much a piece can 'change' when it's rotated 90 degrees.

Tip: find a neutral background material to put behind the lathe... It helps when trying to judge the curve on a piece. Also, don't just look a the curve... Feel it. Sometimes you can feel imperfections that you can't see.

Reactions: Like 5 | Thank You! 1 | Agree 2 | Informative 2


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## Dane Fuller (Mar 5, 2014)

*SKEW CHISEL:*
Grasp the handle firmly in your dominant hand. Rear back and throw it as far away from your lathe as you can.....
Okay, I was kidding. When I first started turning, I was afraid to do anything with a skew chisel. Just like anything else, if you practice making cuts with it, you'll get better. Search Bob Hamilton on Youtube and watch his videos. He's not much to listen to but can run a skew pretty good. I learned a lot by watching him. Just like all of your turning tools, sharpness is key.

*BACK TO YOUTUBE: * There are a lot of good woodturning vids out there. Here are just a few URL's for ones I watch the most:
Bob Hamilton: Don't watch if you're tired.....
Gwinnett Woodworkers: Not all turning but the ones on there are great. They usually run about an hour long.
Eddie Castelin: He's full of crap but has some good money saving tips.

*PRACTICE:* You can watch every video out there and not really know how to do any of it. You've got to go turn. Who knows, maybe you too can turn through the bottom of a bowl; be confounded by the outcome, and send a pic of it to Keller for a diagnosis...

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 6


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## Mike Mills (Mar 5, 2014)

MikeMD said:


> Smooth consistent curves are key. Really try to make your curves flow. Try to reduce or eliminate flat spots along your curves.


 
If you started like I did with no instruction, you just hold on tight and jam the tool into the wood. Slowly you improve and don't get a catch with _every _cut.
To anyone new to turning I suggest three videos of Stuart Batty on stance (dancing with the lathe). I don't think you can get the smooth consistent curves MikeMD suggest until you learn to cut with your body instead of your arms/hands.
http://vimeo.com/woodturning/videos/page:1/sort:alphabetical/format:thumbnail

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 2


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## Johnturner (Mar 5, 2014)

All of these are really great posts. Thank you for taking the time to post them. I know they are for turners of all skill levels - but they are especially important for us newbies.
Thanks

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Schroedc (Mar 5, 2014)

I'm going to add something as a turner who jumped in with no idea what I was doing in the beginning:

Don't be afraid to experiment. Yes, you may make some really nice firewood but eventually you'll have a light bulb moment and take that next step in the evolution of your skills!

Also- Don't hesitate to ask another turner for advice/help/instruction. From meeting other turners I've found most of us seem to like the sound of our own voice and are friendly, helpful people that like nothing more than to talk wood with other people, On the flip side, always be willing to listen, while you might not be able to apply a piece of advice given to you at the time, down the road there may be an application of it.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## duncsuss (Mar 5, 2014)

Join a club, preferably one that organizes events where all members get a chance to use the lathe in the presence of other turners.

Nothing beats having another turner watching you turn and then suggest "try standing like this" or "try lowering the tool rest". You don't get that from videos.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sprung (Mar 5, 2014)

Some great tips! Thanks, everyone! When I get my shop set up after the move and get my lathe going again and actually start turning, I'll have to revisit this thread.


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## TimR (Mar 5, 2014)

Excellent post of stuff that can be taken for granted but is quite important. I think about one other thing when someone is still fairly new at turning as well...learn to properly sharpen and shape your tools to make turning enjoyable, and not a wrestling match between you, the tool and the hunk of wood. 

Subtle convex curves along the bevel of a swept back grind can work wonders and provide less chance of a catch on the inside of a bowl. Likewise, a subtle convex curve along the bevel of a skew can help provide a bit easier control and less incident of catches than a hollow grind. You can literally have the same exact setting on your Wolverine or other jig, the same tool, and end up with a totally different grind because of how you shape it, and the angle of approach to the wheel. Quick little occasional hits with a diamond hone to dress your tool saves you from grinding away your tool prematurely as well. 
Oh.., be sure you don't let your grinding wheels get clogged with gunk. Assuming you use white aluminum oxide wheels, when you start seeing dark colors, it means you aren't grinding as well and will end up adding more heat to your tools than cutting power. Dress the wheels with a diamond dresser when they get like this, I use one from Woodcraft, #124670, about $15 but go on sale often. Does your tool bounce on the wheel while grinding...it can easily be trued up with a single point diamond tool, I use one I got from KBC Tools, 1-607-030, cost $55. I use this once or twice a year at most. If your wheel is really wobbly too...probably needs a better bushing and possible rebalancing.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Alan Sweet (Mar 5, 2014)

As indicated by the responses, one of the greatest sources of information is other turners. God has given us all different perspectives and experiences. As a result, every turner has a unique set of experiences and opinions. A lot can be learned by just listening from all turners. But, you have to evaluate what you take away. Like others, turners range from the shy and perceptive to the arrogant and narrow minded. So evaluate what they have to offer as it can fit into your turning with a open but cautious mind. There is a world of knowledge freely available; just ask.

Reactions: Like 2


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## DKMD (Mar 5, 2014)

Just to clarify, I don't think it was me who inspired Mike regarding photos... I do edit them a little, but I take them with my cell phone!


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## MikeMD (Mar 5, 2014)

Nope, Keller, it do believe it was you! (But I do hit the sauce, so my memory isn't wh... What was I saying? Never mind.) Anyway, I could have sworn it was you that said that you believe photos really do need to be edited. And that you really thought it was a good idea to get the graduated backdrop. Maybe not, but I'm giving you credit. You don't get 1/2 the credit you deserve, and twice the credit you don't...

Reactions: Like 1


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## hobbit-hut (Mar 6, 2014)

As someone who is new to turning what I would like to see is examples of what you are talking about concerning form. Maybe someone has some of their early turnings when they were starting out and can compare it to where they are now as they have improved. I think that would be interesting and give a new turner something to consider when he's at the lathe.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## MikeMD (Mar 6, 2014)

Lowell, the easiest way for me to describe "nice form" on a bowl is this:

A 12" diameter bowl that is 4" tall with a 4" foot/base will be pleasing to the eye. As will a 15" diameter bowl that is 5" tall with a 5" wide foot/base. As will an 18" diameter bowl that is 6" tall with a 6" diameter base.

As for the curve:

Picture the bowl being part of a sphere. The outside curve should/would be a smooth consistent curve, not a combinations of curves or the curve of a parabola or ellipse. I'm not sure of the math, but I'm guessing that the 12 x 4 bowl would be part of a 16" diameter circle. I'd have to draw it out to be sure...

That said, I want to clarify that this is by no means the only "good form" for a bowl! There are many...

Reactions: Like 1


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## hobbit-hut (Mar 7, 2014)

Thank you, I do believe I understand your explanation now. Not that I can do it but it's something to aim at.


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## Nature Man (Mar 7, 2014)

Comments on suggested lathe tools would also be appreciated. For instance, what are the 3 most important lathe tools you should have (and why) in your kit for turning bowls? Spindles? Other? Thanks. Chuck


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## MikeMD (Mar 7, 2014)

Chuck, that might be an entirely new thread! Also, the challenge is that each turner will likely have a different set of 3.

But to answer your question, for me, the three I use most are a Thompson's 5/8" bowl gouge, a skew (used as a scraper for cleaning up my tenons), and a parting tool (also for the tenons, but mostly for roughing/creating them while roughing). I use others, but those are my go-to tools.


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## Mike Mills (Mar 7, 2014)

hobbit-hut said:


> As someone who is new to turning what I would like to see is examples of what you are talking about concerning form.





Guess the mods can delete this if it is not appropriate.
I am a novice also but if you go to Woodturners Unlimited they have a critique section where items are submitted and three professional turners critique them, one area being form. I checked and they have 24 items so far, a new one ever few weeks. Gives some really good insight into what others (at least other turners) think and what they look for.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 1


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## DKMD (Mar 7, 2014)

Mike Mills said:


> Guess the mods can delete this if it is not appropriate.
> I am a novice also but if you go to Woodturners Unlimited they have a critique section where items are submitted and three professional turners critique them, one area being form. I checked and they have 24 items so far, a new one ever few weeks. Gives some really good insight into what others (at least other turners) think and what they look for.



That's a good suggestion! The critique section is open to anyone who's interested in submitting an item... It doesn't matter if you're a professional turner or unable to spell lathe(or is it laythe?). I've learned a lot from reading the entries in that series, and I even had a piece critiqued when they first started the feature. It's all done with the intention of helping folks develop an eye for form.


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## hobbit-hut (Mar 7, 2014)

I tried to subscribe to that site when they were starting up and they had me jumping thru hoops trying to get registered. Got confused and dropped the idea. Might try again and see if it's any easer.


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## dycmark (Mar 7, 2014)

I like the idea of a dedicated critique section but I think that could be hard because of the limitations of photography and the ability to truly get a 360 degree aspect of the piece. I was in Texas when I turned by 1st bowl. I paid John Horne to spend a day with me in his shop as I had only ever turned pens so I really needed and wanted some great guidance. As luck would have it the Wood Turners of North Texas had a meeting the next day and John "made" me bring my 1st bowl ever for their critique table. It was a little intimidating to set this 3 inch butternut bowl next to some absolutely STUNNING pieces. The experience was incredible and especially when they were looking at pieces that I saw as being flawless and profound and making observations and pointers... the point is to find things to improve on and there weren't many pieces that didn't get a number of suggestions or has questions about why certain things were the way they were.

My suggestion is kind of a repeat, find other turners that you can stand next to a lathe with, watch, turn and learn from each other. if there is a club, join or go as a guest. Because of my travel schedule I have attended well over a dozen clubs all over the country and have always been welcomed and always met great people.

Mark

Reactions: Like 1


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## MikeMD (Mar 7, 2014)

Lowell, that was probably because Keller was involved at the time, and in a past life worked with the circus. He thrives on hoop jumping...

Reactions: Funny 2


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## DKMD (Mar 8, 2014)

Nature Man said:


> Comments on suggested lathe tools would also be appreciated. For instance, what are the 3 most important lathe tools you should have (and why) in your kit for turning bowls? Spindles? Other? Thanks. Chuck



There's no 'right' answer for the tools, but I'll give you three... 1/2" bowl gouge, 3/8" detail gouge, and a 3/4" skew. You can do a whole lot of things with a bowl gouge, and the detail gouge is handy for fine details and spindle work. The skew is a fantastic spindle tool once you tame it, and it can double as a scraper as Mike suggested. A cheap parting tool would be my next choice followed by a roughing gouge. I'm sure opinions vary widely about what would end up in the top three, and I doubt you'll find many turners with less than a dozen tools(or several dozen in some cases).


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## Steve Walker (Mar 10, 2014)

A few thoughts....
Find a source for wood, preferably free wood. Tree services are a great source. 
It's a lot easier to turn green wood than dry wood. Drying green turned will teach you all about cracks checks and warping.
Keep your first turned piece, it works as a great comparison piece to gauge your improvement.
Patience. Rome wasn't built in a day, and gallery worthy pieces won't be coming off your lathe right off the bat.
Find a mentor or club. I'm self taught, but have relied heavily on a couple of fellow turners for advice, mostly through phone calls.
There are several wood turning forums available on the internet, and all are good source of info, and places to ask questions.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Terry Summerville (Mar 18, 2014)

Another good source of info is YouTube. Before I even bought my lathe, just over a year ago, I watched a ton of very informative videos on YouTube. I have never seen anyone do any turnings in person or had any on-hand training other than watching those videos. Sounds scary but it's true. The only way to learn in my opinion is practice, get some cheap wood and play with the tools to build your confidence and knowledge about turning.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JR Custom Calls (Mar 18, 2014)

Terry Summerville said:


> Another good source of info is YouTube. Before I even bought my lathe, just over a year ago, I watched a ton of very informative videos on YouTube. I have never seen anyone do any turnings in person or had any on-hand training other than watching those videos. Sounds scary but it's true. The only way to learn in my opinion is practice, get some cheap wood and play with the tools to build your confidence and knowledge about turning.



Similar situation here. I was fortunate to have 2 call makers that live about 2 hours away from me who I went and spent about 4 hours each with... after spending about 3 months doing things my own way with a little help from youtube. Watching them turn, sand, finish, and the tools they used was more help to me than anything. My work has improved greatly since visiting with them.


As far as tools, wood tick tools (ok, I suppose any carbide cutter, but props to greg) are a must IMO. having turned with crap tools, then upgrading to a flat and round carbide cutter, it's like night and day.


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## Terry Summerville (Mar 19, 2014)

JR Custom Calls said:


> As far as tools, wood tick tools (ok, I suppose any carbide cutter, but props to greg) are a must IMO. having turned with crap tools, then upgrading to a flat and round carbide cutter, it's like night and day.



I have a carbide cutter. Spent too much money on it and only used it for a few minutes once! I'm just not comfortable using it yet. The set of knives I bought came with 2 skews and that's what I use! I feel I have more control using the skews.


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## Terry Summerville (Mar 19, 2014)

JR Custom Calls said:


> Similar situation here. I was fortunate to have 2 call makers that live about 2 hours away from me who I went and spent about 4 hours each with... after spending about 3 months doing things my own way with a little help from youtube. Watching them turn, sand, finish, and the tools they used was more help to me than anything. My work has improved greatly since visiting with them.



I haven't met anyone or even know anyone locally that turns. I've been in contact with the local AAW chapter and invited to their monthly meeting but forget to go that day! Lol


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## JR Custom Calls (Mar 19, 2014)

Terry Summerville said:


> I have a carbide cutter. Spent too much money on it and only used it for a few minutes once! I'm just not comfortable using it yet. The set of knives I bought came with 2 skews and that's what I use! I feel I have more control using the skews.



I was a bit nervous when I first used mine. The square cutter scared me a little because it got a little choppy. I tried using the round cutter, and found it to be the best (for me, of course) for turning things round, while the square works great for making sure everything is even. Also works great for squaring up my recess for friction surfaces and sound board pedestals. 

I tried using a skew once. After shooting a pot call across the garage, I retired it to the tool box.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Terry Summerville (Mar 20, 2014)

JR Custom Calls said:


> I tried using a skew once. After shooting a pot call across the garage, I retired it to the tool box.



I never shot anything across the shop yet! I've had a couple things break on me, but the pieces didn't go far.


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## dycmark (Mar 22, 2014)

Terry Summerville said:


> I haven't met anyone or even know anyone locally that turns. I've been in contact with the local AAW chapter and invited to their monthly meeting but forget to go that day! Lol



Terry,

I am from Erie. I travel a bunch and get to attend meetings all over the country but this month was my 1st time attending the turners club meeting (FINALLY). Since then I have been out to the Presidents shop for a little turning and chat and have also managed to secure the last spot for 2 days worth of instriuction with Nick Agar (www.turningintoart.com). It is a good club, I will remind you next time.  MEETING IMMINENT!! 

I have 2 lathes in the garage right now. A DVR XP and a Delta 460, Both of which I have never turned on. Needless to say I am REALLY REALLY looking forward to the weather breaking so i can start to get my garage in order. Unfortunately no heat and a ton of stuff stored in the garage so for now my only turning is at my brothers or the coming club hands on. I am ALWAYS looking for an excuse. Send me a PM if you want to and I will shoot you my number.

Mark


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## Terry Summerville (Mar 23, 2014)

dycmark said:


> Terry,
> 
> I am from Erie. I travel a bunch and get to attend meetings all over the country but this month was my 1st time attending the turners club meeting (FINALLY). Since then I have been out to the Presidents shop for a little turning and chat and have also managed to secure the last spot for 2 days worth of instriuction with Nick Agar (www.turningintoart.com). It is a good club, I will remind you next time.  MEETING IMMINENT!!
> 
> ...



Hmmm....now the pressure is on! Lol


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