# Invisible Fence Help



## Kevin (May 31, 2013)

I'm just starting my invisible fence research. We have 5 dogs, 4 would be collared. The two boys and two girls will be kept separate, by a invisible barrier cutting the outer barrier in half. The boys would ignore the pain to get to a girl in heat I bet but they are fixed so that's not an issue. the area to be fenced is roughly 3/4 acre to eventually expand to 2 acres and maybe eventually to 10 but that's way down the road. 

I don't know anything about buying a system except the basics about how they work. One thing I wonder about is power loss. Being rural we experience them during storms, and I wonder if the dogs would sense that right away. I realize everyone thinks their kid or dog is the smartest, but these dogs truly are exceptionally smart. This means they'd learn quicker than most dogs not to test the fence after 1 or two zaps of learning their boundaries, but it also means they'd probably figure out very quick when the fence was down(?). 

So one feature I'd like is a backup battery option but don't know if they come with one. I have not any research at all. I'm going to later today but wanted to sow this seed now and see if we have any invisible fence owners here. 

[attachment=25611]


----------



## SENC (May 31, 2013)

I put my own in a few years ago... roughly 1-1/2 acres. Lots of hands on training is required the first few weeks... you don't just turn the loose and let them figure it out (as I had thought). If you do it right, they make no association of the new boundaries being related to the collar... I have no heartburn now about leaving a collar off a dog for a few hours, days, even a week. They don't really test these systems, per se, so once boundaries are established they stick to them.

The obvious exception is when a temptation is just too high. My Boykin found himself on the wrong side of the fence (once out, can't get back in without same effect) a few times as a pup when he got too caught up in the heat of a squirrel chase, and I bet my Lab would break through in a heartbeat if he felt someone was a serious threat to us. But those events are due to specific stimuli (which, by the way, you try to create when you're training them) so don't tend to create patterns.

I have the Innotek system (they may have been bought out by PetSafe) that has the collars that have progressive stimulation. I think it is worth the extra expense. Oh, it does have a limited battery backup as I recall, and I also got the lightning protection piece that tries to arrest surges from fence to electric or vice versa.

GunDogSupply in MS has a great online presence, great service, and great guidance.

Biggest thing I can tell you us to make the time to train your dogs well... I think it is the biggest differentiator between succesfull invisible fences and unsuccessful ones.

Were I doing it again, I would have hired someone to lay the wiring. It took more of my time than I saved in money, and someone with experience and the right equipment could have done it in half the time and done it better. There were a few areas I've had to dig up and patch over the years because I didn't get them deep enough and they've gotten cut or broken (and finding a break in a line is a PITA if you have a lot of it).


----------



## Kevin (May 31, 2013)

Thanks for the really good info. I have a trenching attachment for my skid steer so not a problem laying wire. I'm still considering a wood fence because I have enough logs to fence several acres but we don't want to block the views off of our property, which is our sole reason for considering an invisible fence. If we go with a wood fence I'll keep it at 4' because we could still see everything from our porch, and just run an electric wire for the top and bottom. That's what we do currently in our 4' tall open-top kennels and they never even try to escape any more. They used to crawl over or dig under, but with the electric wire they never attempt it any more. They are large kennels - one 350 sq ft and the other closer to 500 but still, they are kennels made of hardware cloth which is unsightly. I want to give them free reign over the entire property eventually. 

Thanks again for the input.


----------



## NYWoodturner (May 31, 2013)

No short answer here so I'll just start rambling.  I have 3 acres and about 2.5 are fenced in. I use the Pet Safe system. They are all independent owners and the service level will naturally vary - but the owner of the branch I used even went to court for me - (another story). I agree with what Henry said about having them install - but I don't have a skid steer. In wooded areas where you cannot dig through the root systems of the trees, they just ran the cable through plastic conduit and laid it on top of the ground. Covered by leaves and undergrowth in no time.
Henry is right. The training is key, but with Shepherds it is really easy. Mine all had it in less than an hour. That being said - there are different levels of correction, 1 through 10, and the distance between from the line to the audible correction can be adjusted from 1 to 3 feet. At the technicians recommendation, we started them all on 3. The two girls got it and still have them on 3 7 years later. The boy however would actually sit on the line, listening to the audible and getting zapped by the electrical correction, leg just a shakin and happy as a lark -until the battery was dead and he could go about his merry way. He did that several times and would go chase the neighbors cat - his favorite thing to do at that point. (Thus the court case)
To make a long story short, Hudson is on a bigger box that runs on a 9 volt battery now vs two 1.5 volt batteries in the girl's collars. His box is set on 10. The trainer guaranteed that this would stop a pony. 
Both of the pups learned that if we want to cross the line and they want to come with us, if they hit it on a dead run they can clear the correction zone before they get a correction. They still understand this but only use it when they think we are being threatened. Hudson's box is also set to chase him, or continue correction for 10 seconds, which will chase him across the entire yard. He has only done that one time. He just won't mess with it now. The one time he did it sounded like he has been hit by a car he screamed so loudly. 
Hudson has not had a collar on now since October - but he will not cross the line. The girls batteries have been dead for months too. Belle knows it, because she will walk to the mailbox with me, but does not leave unless one of us with her. 
I highly recommend the invisible fence, I don't have to paint each year, repair or rebuild, trim or maintain in any way. When the pups were lean they would have cleared a 4 foot fence anyway. Make sure you don't have a single gap in the loop. If you do your shepherds will find it. The trainer told a story of a lot he did for shepherds, where the owner had done a self install, and stopped the line 10" from the back of the garage. The shepherds found that gap and wore a path in the lawn from walking through that 10" gap.

Reactions: +Karma 1


----------



## SENC (May 31, 2013)

Love the story about the male sitting on the line waiting for the battery to run dead - such a stubborn male dog thing to do!

One piece of training advice that I was given that, I think, has done a world of good in keeping the dogs from testing the perimeter. We were, and have been since, religious about not taking the dogs out of the perimeter without a specific procedure in place... a virtual gate, if you will. The dogs know they won't get corrected leaving the perimeter only under these circumstances, and don't try or test without those circumstances in place. The recommendation was to use cones or some other visible cue to walk through with them (with the fence or collars off, of course). In our case, I decided to even be more careful and use vehicles... I never walk them out of the perimeter... They either hop in the UTV if we're headed out back into the pasture or woods or into their box in the truck if we're going elsewhere. It might only be a 20 foot ride in the utv, but it is a pattern that they now know and it works.


----------



## brown down (May 31, 2013)

kevin as far as a battery backup for the fence when you loose power, you can buy fairly cheap ups systems that will run the fence for a set period of time, meaning whatever the unit is rated for. they make small ones all the way up to the size i work with which run HUGE data centers and critical care like hospitals! they will only run depending on how much the unit draws which those fences don't really draw anything. its just a transmitter and the collar being the power source! now i have had these fences and will tell you that you def want to watch the batteries on the collars .. if they are as smart as my beagles were, they will test the strength of the zap. collar battery to week, dog is over the fence me chasing the dogs 

you only want the wire just below the surface of the ground they will tell you the max you can go! also the more splices you put in that cable the more resistance you will have and also the weaker the signal will be!
if you can run one continuous loop and even up a little on the size cable of what they recommend would work out better in your favor. 

are you splitting these off in zones?? you may have to run separate loops but don't know how you will control the sensitivity of each loop???:i_dunno:

wood working i am learning on, electrical comes almost second nature so if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask my friend!


----------



## Kevin (May 31, 2013)

Thanks for all the good info guys, it really helps.

Jeff, if I do go the wireless route and do need to splice, I'll silver solder it and use an underground phone splice kit. There won't be a voltage drop across the splice - not one that measurably adds to the impedance anyway, and with the splice kit it won't corrode over time. You make a valid point though because most DIYers don't know how to splice properly or even what impedance is. 


My better half is leaning toward a wood fence now. :i_dunno:


----------



## HomeBody (Jun 2, 2013)

Impedance: That's when you have an electric dog barrier that keeps your dogs in BUT does nothing to keep other dogs/animals out. 

Your better half is wise.

If I ran a wire instead of having a chain link fence out here in the sticks, my Giant Schnauzer would be killing opossums and coons every time she went out at night. Gary


----------



## Kevin (Jun 2, 2013)

HomeBody said:


> ... an electric dog barrier that keeps your dogs in BUT does nothing to keep other dogs/animals out. ...



That's not really a concern here. We have no fence at all and none of the local dogs or coyotes have ever tested our dogs. They keep a wide berth when when passing by.


----------



## ripjack13 (Jun 2, 2013)

I have an I.F. My wife was really hesitant about getting one. It's a Gundog brand. After teaching my pittie the boundry she has only crossed it once. She doesn't do it any more. Probably because she got zapped 4 times during that fiasco. The neighbors have the kind as well. Loki wanted to play with the dogs next door. So she got zapped leaving ours then again entering theirs then again upon leaving theirs and once more trying to come back in ours. I thought she had been hit by a car or something till the neighbor and I came running to see the event aftermath. After that...she just barks at them now. But she needs to be as close as possible without the beep.
My wife has come to enjoy and appreciate the fence now. No more of her getting clotheslined and taken out at the ankles walking in the yard.
To install our line I used an ice chipper. I just stepped on it all theway around our 2 acres wiggling it back and forth to open the line up to make a V in the soil. Then installed the wire and stepped on one side of the V to close up the gap. Works great ever since.


----------



## sbwertz (Jun 23, 2013)

Can't speak for dogs, but my horses could surely tell when the fence wasn't hot. I think they could HEAR it.

Sharon


----------

