# To stabilize or not to stabilize. That is the question.



## Mastershink (Jul 7, 2014)

I am trying to use wood native to my area and was wondering how does a person know if a piece of wood needs to be stabilized. I ask this question because I turned a couple pens out of cedar and discovered that each one of them ended up with a small crack. I dont have any way to stabilize so is there an alternate method I could use. I am also going to try to use some sage brush and am betting that it would have to be treated some way or another.


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## Tclem (Jul 7, 2014)

You said the cedar cracked. Was it dry when you turned it. If not and you turned it green then it could crack or was it so dry that a tool catch could have cracked it. I have turned cedar both stabilized and not stabilized. Cracks happen for different reasons. As far as stabilizing, some people will answer different from me. I love turning stabilized blanks. Not everything NEEDS to be stabilized. Soft punky woods do for sure but I find that a stabilized blank turns better for me and finishes better so when I send a box of blanks off that need stabilizing I always throw other blanks in as well. A lot of people on here do all there own stabilizing and though I have my own equipment I don't have the time so I send mine off to a company wooddynamics. I think @lathemaster offers this service as well as well as a few others on this site.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## SENC (Jul 7, 2014)

I agree with everything Tony said (shocking, I know, but my friend was exceptionally lucid for 4:27 am - maybe we found his best time of day, or more likely his bride was sitting in for him).

Stabilizing won't fix everything - and even stabilized wood can and will crack or fail while being worked (inherent weakness in the wood, internal unseen crack or void, bad catch, etc). What stabilizing really does is fill some air pockets within the wood fibers and in doing so add density to the piece. This has 2 big benefits- soft, punky, or otherwise low density wood gains a little "structure", making it cut more than rip - and it prevents the piece from soaking up and holding moisture, meaning it won't move (less chance of cracking) once completed. Note that wood has to be dry for stabilizing, so there is ample time for movement and cracking before stabilizing.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Tclem (Jul 7, 2014)

SENC said:


> I agree with everything Tony said (shocking, I know, but my friend was exceptionally lucid for 4:27 am - maybe we found his best time of day, or more likely his bride was sitting in for him).
> 
> Stabilizing won't fix everything - and even stabilized wood can and will crack or fail while being worked (inherent weakness in the wood, internal unseen crack or void, bad catch, etc). What stabilizing really does is fill some air pockets within the wood fibers and in doing so add density to the piece. This has 2 big benefits- soft, punky, or otherwise low density wood gains a little "structure", making it cut more than rip - and it prevents the piece from soaking up and holding moisture, meaning it won't move (less chance of cracking) once completed. Note that wood has to be dry for stabilizing, so there is ample time for movement and cracking before stabilizing.


Now they will think we are buddies. Lol

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Schroedc (Jul 7, 2014)

One question, did they crack before or during assembly? Depending on the kit is it possible that something was too tight and it split when parts were pressed in?

Reactions: Agree 4


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## ripjack13 (Jul 7, 2014)

You could try some wood hardener. It will darken the wood a bit....


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## Tclem (Jul 7, 2014)

Schroedc said:


> One question, did they crack before or during assembly? Depending on the kit is it possible that something was too tight and it split when parts were pressed in?


Also to go along with what Colin said ,if blank is not trimmed down to barrel and is longer than the barrel, when the components are pressed in they can push on the blank instead of the tube and crack it.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mastershink (Jul 7, 2014)

Im not sure when they cracked. I didn't notice it until after everything was put together. I think the wood was dry because the guy that gave it to me said the tree had been dead for some time. Is there a way to repair it so I an sell them or is it back to the drawing (turning) board? Here is a pic of the two pens. I would hate to take them apart and start over. The other wood is black walnut (I think)


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## Tclem (Jul 7, 2014)

I can't see the cracks on my phone will have to wait till I get home and look on my PC BUT if you can fix some cracks while still on the lathe. If it was me I would start over. Don't worry I've done it and so has everybody else. Somebody else may tell you a way to fix it but that's just my opinion. A moisture meter will tell you how dry it is better than somebody. If I turn cedar I have it stabilized


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## Schroedc (Jul 7, 2014)

Those are beautiful pens. I can't see the split in the photos but if you are anything like me I know it drives you nuts huh? 

I have no idea how long you've been turning and I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings but I'm going to throw out a few things I've found helpful for everyone to see. I make lots of pens but I wouldn't say I'm expert. Always something new to learn. 

1) Cedar- I've had logs that had been cut 10-15 years ago split once I cut them into pen blanks so it could have been the wood.

2) How are you trimming your tubes to square them before turning? if you are using an end mill it can sometimes roll the end of the tube in a hair and this can cause the pen to split during assembly as it has to stretch a little more. If you are sanding them you end up with a rough edge and can have the same thing happen. I'd recommend investing in a deburring tool if you don't already use one. I like this one, I know there are cheaper sources but this link was easy to find- http://www.pennstateind.com/store/MSDEBURR.html?prodpage=1MS this tool cleans up the end of the tube and actually bevels the opening slightly which can help assembly.

3)Make sure the tubes are clean on the inside, sometimes a little glue on the inside gets left behind and this high spot can cause a split as the brass tube as to stretch further.

4)Sometimes the plating on various kit parts can be thick, I'll sand them down a few thousandths and use some epoxy or CA to make sure the joint holds. Just have to make sure not to scratch the part.

5)Disassembly- If the pen cracks and you want to save the hardware invest in a set of punches. You can buy a set marketed to pen turners but a set like this: http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-7319-T...1404763227&sr=8-1&keywords=transfer+punch+set is usually quite a bit cheaper. You can then drive the parts of the pen, chuck the tubes into the lathe again, turn off the wood and start over. If you aren't too aggressive you can save the tubes sometimes just pay attention to how short they get when you are squaring them. You can also buy spare tubes and recycle the hardware

6)Assembly- During assembly if a part goes crooked when you start to press it in it can crack the wood before it straightens itself out on the way in. I use an arbor press with some custom holders and tips I built myself but a vice or a set of pads for your lathe or a pen press work just fine too if you make sure everything goes in straight.

7)Gremlins- Sometimes, now matter how careful you are it's just gonna happen. I take it as a learning experience and move on. Or my wife gets a scratch and dent pen for the kitchen.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Mastershink (Jul 7, 2014)

Schroedc said:


> Those are beautiful pens. I can't see the split in the photos but if you are anything like me I know it drives you nuts huh?
> 
> I have no idea how long you've been turning and I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings but I'm going to throw out a few things I've found helpful for everyone to see. I make lots of pens but I wouldn't say I'm expert. Always something new to learn.
> 
> ...


I use a barrel trimmer to square the blanks. I thought the part that went through the tube cleaned anything out of the tube. I really like the transfer punch idea. I have a disassembly kit but I think the punch set is a better idea. I haven't been turning very long and any and all advice is more than welcome. My wife has several scratch and dent pens to choose from.


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## Mastershink (Jul 7, 2014)

I took a closer look at the pens and discovered that they must have cracked on the lathe because the cracks are covered with CA. They don't look too bad and are hard to see but I know they are there and that's what matters I think.


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## Schroedc (Jul 7, 2014)

Mastershink said:


> I took a closer look at the pens and discovered that they must have cracked on the lathe because the cracks are covered with CA. They don't look too bad and are hard to see but I know they are there and that's what matters I think.




Another thing I thought of if the cracks were there before finishing, with softer woods, if you are too aggressive with a barrel trimmer it can crack or chip the wood before you even start turning. For soft woods sanding the ends down square might be a better way to go if you have a way to do that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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