# So much Mahogany Madness what's a Woodchuck to do



## MarksCaribbeanWoodworks (Feb 3, 2016)

Good day:

Being new to the site and hailing from America's Paradise in the U.S. Virgin Islands, I have been combing through the discussions here regarding Mahogany. I know that there are folks here who are way more smarter than me on these matters and so I always defer to such folks. But I thought I might chime in just a bit with some amateur botantist but tree guy thoughts on this.

No doubt there are a lot of different species of mahogany which are identified, classified, sub-classified, sub-sub classified and named with names which I will never be able to pronounce or remember. See the attached family tree of our beloved Mahogany.

Given that all of the subs, sub subs, genus, acylisis are just down right mind boggling to me, I have done what I think 99% of us do and just give the Mahogany we have or seen the name of where it comes from - African Mahogany, Brazilian Mahogany, Cuban Mahogany etc. But there is also Mahogany in Grenada, Panama and Mexico. While this is good on my mind, it has never really helped me understand what the difference is between these types as far as color, graining, texture, aging process and all that good stuff we love, but which is just so important when we make a piece and want to tell our significant other - who is just so impressed with our skills which we tell them are really just skills on top of our already incredible skills (sorry I digress) - exactly what brand of Mahogany this is we used and be dead on right about it.

With that said, we have Mahogany here on St. Thomas, St. Croix and St. John but this Mahogany is much different than what is in the local lumber yard which is Brazilian and it is different than Cuban, Grenadian etc. Which are each different from the other.

So the differences can be significant - a Honduras Mahongany tree's exterior looks nothing like one here on my island. Also, I have found that even the Mahogany on my island will be different - mostly in color and grain pattern - depending on several factors.

So just from my local observations and maybe something to help think about Mahogany when you see it or use it and maybe this local observation may help a fellow woodchuck have a little better feel for the wood they may come across I offer the following factors I have observed to effect local mahogany.

Location - near sea level or above 500 feet. I have found that trees growing closer to sea level will have a tighter grain that those growing higher up from sea level. Not sure, why this is but I think that it may have something to due with the lack of fresh water so the tree grows tighter and slower. My theory is also supported by observations of large old growth mahogany at sea level which will have roots up to 2 feet in diameter or more extending out 20 - 30 feet beyond the base and the 2 feet I see is just that half that is above ground

Age - generally if the tree is less than 150 years old which is the equivalent of a trunk base less than 36 inches in diameter it will have an orange color tone. The older the tree the more red it will be in tone to the point that heartwood from a 200+ old tree will be the color of blood, especially in the root base. ? 

Surrounding fauna: Here I see Mahogany trees rising anywhere from 40 to 200 feet in height. Of course the canopy on the tree as it gets large tends to eliminate most undergrowth of any significant factor, including grasses which is probably due to a natural chemical. These trees will often growing is small clusters within a 50 yard radius - so I will see like 5 - 8 of them in one area. I think they do this for protection from Hurricanes because the smaller of the cluster are always in the middle of the group like lil children or something. Note here - this has nothing to do with anything of importance to this thread but is kind of a cool observation.

When these trees do get knocked down by a storm and are bigger than say 36" in diameter and are found at less than 500' from sea level then the wood, when first opened, is Salmon pink, then over a period of 60 days are so it will transform before your eyes to an light orange, then pumpkin orange, the like a sunset red orange and on to a deep blood red.

If the tree is bigger than say 36" in diameter and are found above 500' from sea level then the wood, when first opened, is Salmon pink, then over a period of 60 days are so it will transform before your eyes to an light orange, then pumpkin orange and will generally stop turning when it hits a deep orange but not quite red color

For trees less than say 36" in diameter and regardless of sea level position will generally never season beyond the orange shade.

I suspect that my observations may apply to all mahoganies but am not sure.

Reactions: Like 2 | Thank You! 1 | Great Post 5


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## Mike1950 (Feb 3, 2016)

Interesting. I have never seen a Mahogany tree.


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## phinds (Feb 3, 2016)

Mark,

Terrific post and excellent attachment. Thanks. 

I'm not sure that all of your observations comport w/ my experience but I do not mean in any way to challenge your observations, I'm just mentioning it and assuming that my recollection of my observations, or the observations themselves, are wrong. I will look into this further and see how your observations compare to the hundreds of pics on my site of the American mahoganies. The one thing that I notice just quickly is that my recollection was correct that "blood red" is pretty rare in my pics. Actually, I thought it was none but I double-checked and I see I'm wrong about that. Anyway, as I said, I'll respond in more detail. I think I have a couple of questions. Not enough time at the moment though.


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## MarksCaribbeanWoodworks (Feb 3, 2016)

Phinds:

Thanks for the reply. I know that my observations are certainly not scientific by any stretch and my observations are limited to strictly what I have seen in the Mahogany on my island. 

I will take some pics of the process I am talking about starting with when I first open up a piece and take time lapse photos for the changes. 

Look forward to hearing more from you and I will definitely look at your pics.


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## Kevin (Feb 3, 2016)

Excellent post Mark. Thanks for the fantastic content!


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## MarksCaribbeanWoodworks (Feb 3, 2016)

Phind


Mike1950 said:


> Interesting. I have never seen a Mahogany tree.



So I just got back from walking through town today and while I was there I snapped a few photos. 

The cluster of Mahogany is in front of Fort Christian built by the Danes in 1670. The mahogany is not that old

The real burly swirly old man is one of my favorites and is on the same property

The two wit the big roots are great examples of what I mentioned about the tree stretching out its base. These two are about 200 yards from the Fort. 

All sit at about 10 feet sea level 

Then pic of the rainforest area above town (where I am blessed to live) has very few mahogany.

Reactions: Way Cool 4


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## Mike1950 (Feb 3, 2016)

VERY cool. Thanks


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## MarksCaribbeanWoodworks (Feb 3, 2016)

To give everyone an idea of how slow these mahogany grow and just how powerful a presence they put out. Here is a pic of the U.S.V.I. Legislature building from 1917 when the Danes transferred the islands to the US government. Note the Mahogany behind the Danish soldiers.

Here is the same building taken today by me.

Same trees - man these guys survived a Tsunami, Earthquakes and countless hurricanes.

Reactions: Like 3 | Way Cool 1


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## phinds (Feb 3, 2016)

Nice set of pics. Good information about growth rate.


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## MarksCaribbeanWoodworks (Feb 3, 2016)

phinds said:


> Nice set of pics. Good information about growth rate.



Phinds

I snapped a quick pic tonight about the color difference in the local mahogany. 

The piece in the middle is from the trunk of a standing dead which was maybe 50 - 60 years old and the other two on side are from from root system of tree that was able 200+ years old when it fell

I cut all three pieces in the same weekend a couple of months back and they have been sitting in my shop since then

The piece in the middle will not get too much more red than what it is here

The last pic is the stump in the right but I took and hand planer and knocked down the top 1/8 inch and you can see the pink salmon color I mentioned.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 1 | Informative 2


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## phinds (Feb 3, 2016)

Nice. I wonder if I could get you to send me some cutoffs from some of these. I'll pay postage if you're willing. We can discuss sizes if you do decide to.


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## Byron Barker (Feb 14, 2021)

Much darker color than most of the mahogany in Taiwan. Sapwood isn't apparent either. Interesting

Reactions: Informative 1


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