# Shipping Ammo Between Private Individuals



## Kevin (Mar 7, 2015)

It appears that I was wrong about a private individual needing a permit to ship ammo within the lower 48, as a general rule. I do believe there are some states that don't allow it to go in or out and we can guess most of those. Of course it has to ground e.g. FEDEX UPS etc. and be properly labeled. And since some FEDEX/UPS centers are privately owned they can make their own rules.

But I am considering allowing members to buy, sell, and trade ammo among ourselves once I get the rules all in one place. Once I do I'm going to run it past my buddy who is a judge and see what he thinks about us allowing it here.

For right now please respect our rule about no ammo being traded here until I can get a clearer understanding of the laws and exceptions. I have posted a poll but unless you are pro gun please do not vote in the poll and skew the results.

You may vote EITHER yes or no and you may also cast your vote in support of grits. But voting both yes and no on the ammo barter will get your votes removed.


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## ripjack13 (Mar 7, 2015)

I'm all for it...but I will guess Connecticut would be out. I would need to check my dictator's rules on it...

Reactions: Funny 3


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## APBcustoms (Mar 7, 2015)

I have a few types of ammo I'm looking for so I'm all over this


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## Kevin (Mar 7, 2015)

What calibers you looking for Austin?


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## SENC (Mar 7, 2015)

I'm good with it, but I voted for grits. Why? Because any good southern boy chooses grits when given the option.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## DKMD (Mar 7, 2015)

I voted no just because I don't know the legalities... I also vote grits because they're delicious


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## SENC (Mar 7, 2015)

DKMD said:


> I voted no just because I don't know the legalities... I also vote grits because they're delicious


I gotta take some time and rethink a few things. I never knew there was such a thing as a clog-wearing, finernail-painting dude who liks grits. This is messing with my world, man.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## manbuckwal (Mar 7, 2015)

I'm good with it. I do have my concerns, but I know your brain will work overtime Kevin, weighing the pros and cons before you go forward with it .

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DKMD (Mar 7, 2015)

SENC said:


> I gotta take some time and rethink a few things. I never knew there was such a thing as a clog-wearing, finernail-painting dude who liks grits. This is messing with my world, man.



For some reason, boggling your mind doesn't feel like much of an accomplishment.

Reactions: Great Post 1 | Funny 4


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## Kevin (Mar 7, 2015)

DKMD said:


> I voted no just because I don't know the legalities... I also vote grits because they're delicious



That's cool. I did a poor job with the wording as usual. We wouldn't even put it to vote unless I do in fact get a positive legal opinion from my friend.


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## manbuckwal (Mar 7, 2015)

SENC said:


> any good southern boy



I didn't know you were a gymnast too Henry............Thats quite a stretch

Reactions: Funny 2


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## SENC (Mar 7, 2015)

Touche


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## APBcustoms (Mar 7, 2015)

Kevin said:


> What calibers you looking for Austin?



Mainly 450 marlin


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## Kevin (Mar 7, 2015)

APBcustoms said:


> Mainly 450 marlin



I have 3 boxes of Hornady Flex Tip 325 gr. I'd let one go for the right piece of wood. How big a hurry you in? Because we can't do it yet . . . . .


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## APBcustoms (Mar 7, 2015)

Kevin said:


> I have 3 boxes of Hornady Flex Tip 325 gr. I'd let one go for the right piece of wood. How big a hurry you in? Because we can't do it yet . . . . .



This here? 



 

No hurry my dads just always looking for it so I figured I'd help him out


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## Kevin (Mar 7, 2015)

APBcustoms said:


> This here?
> 
> View attachment 73293
> 
> No hurry my dads just always looking for it so I figured I'd help him out



It's still in stock many places. You might not like the price though.


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## HomeBody (Mar 8, 2015)

Sounds good. I have quite a bit of ammo and reloading supplies I'd be willing to trade. I probably have 2000 .38 special rounds and I don't even have a .38 anymore. I need .218 Bee and .38-55 brass or ammo. Gary


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## APBcustoms (Mar 8, 2015)

Kevin said:


> It's still in stock many places. You might not like the price though.



We look all the time maybe it's more common in good ol Texas


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## JR Custom Calls (Mar 8, 2015)

I didn't vote. But... I'm not in support of this. You'd be hard pressed to find someone more pro-gun than myself, but one of the things I like about this site is that it's hardcore wood related, with very little else. I feel like ammo trades would open up a bunch of gun guys coming here (again, not a bad thing), and take a little away from the fact that everyone here is a woodworker. 

But of course, this is only my opinion.


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## Kevin (Mar 8, 2015)

HomeBody said:


> I need .218 Bee



Good luck. I have one single round of it. Not one box, one round lol. 

You won't have any trouble finding .38-55 but you'll pay $1.50 - $3.00 a round to get it. There's about a dozen listings for it currently on ammo seek all in 255 gr.


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## GeauxGameCalls (Mar 8, 2015)

We still have trouble find 22lr so I'm down to my last ten or twenty bullets..


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## Kevin (Mar 8, 2015)

JR Custom Calls said:


> I feel like ammo trades would open up a bunch of gun guys coming here (again, not a bad thing),



As you know we've had to clamp down on the non-woodworkers lately even though it hissed off a few members. You must also keep in mind that ANYTHING we do, or even don't do for that matter, is always going to rub someone the wrong way. This forum is for woodworkers only. The non-woodworkers that joined in our early days and have slipped in occasionally since then and have become members we all know and love are grandfathered in. I'm working on a new signup process that spells out in crystal clear terms members must be woodworkers, or non-woodworkers that are joining for the sole purpose of getting help and advice to become a woodworker, so that anyone who joins and is later seen to be here to do nothing but sell can be justly removed from our midst because they will have had to falsify their registration once I get it complete. I've also put in a clause that allows them to contact me if they aren't woodworkers but have a reason they feel deserves an exception. I can't think of what it would be but I want to leave a doorway because there's always exceptions to every rule even if we can't think of them in advance. 

_"A bunch of gun guys" _joining just to swap ammo isn't going to happen but I understand your concern. Ammo swapping would be between woodworkers. We already allow pretty much anything at all to be used for barter remember. We even have a forum for it. No one uses it much and I doubt much ammo would be swapped bought or sold either but providing that we aren't entering in gray areas by allowing it, I don't see how ammo is any different than Henry trading his pink tutu to Doc for his green fingernail paint. 

But if you think about it, the main reason I want to add ammo to our list of _anything goes_ is because Henry has a lot of CK and I like that stuff . . . I have a lot of ammo and Henry likes that stuff . . . . .

Reactions: Great Post 1 | Funny 3


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## Foot Patrol (Mar 8, 2015)

I could use 22 Mag. Since I bought a Henry Goldenboy I have only been able to get a few boxes of 50.


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## Kevin (Mar 8, 2015)

It looks like the pros will carry the day if the judge says it's cool. The main problem I see in the world though is that not enough people eat grits. No wonder there's so much war and hatred on the planet. Grits are for more than just part of a perfect breakfast you know . . .

Reactions: Like 1 | EyeCandy! 1 | Agree 1


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## Kevin (Mar 8, 2015)

Foot Patrol said:


> I could use 22 Mag. Since I bought a Henry Goldenboy I have only been able to get a few boxes of 50.



I'm not going to part with any of my 22lr or mag but my hardware store has about 3000 rounds of Aguila 20 grain for 6.69 a box. I've never shot any of it and of course it won't cycle in semi autos but they're still great for plinking in a market where you can't get anything else. I pepper unwanted neighborhood dogs with the cci shot shells out of my MKI and my 10-22 and they don't cycle either but it's not a hassle. Short of like a "pump 22" except with the pull of a racking motion.

This is the stuff I'm talking about except cheaper at my hardware store. I will buy some of it in case we swap ammo if anyone wants some. I'm always looking for an excuse to buy ammo.

Reactions: Like 1


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## LSCG (Mar 9, 2015)

would reloading supplies be included or is it just factory ammo?

I don't have much need for factory ammo (except maybe 22's) but I would be interested in different powders.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## HomeBody (Mar 9, 2015)

Kevin said:


> Good luck. I have one single round of it. Not one box, one round lol.
> 
> You won't have any trouble finding .38-55 but you'll pay $1.50 - $3.00 a round to get it. There's about a dozen listings for it currently on ammo seek all in 255 gr.



When I got my .218 Bee I got 3 boxes of ammo with it. One was in mint shape from the 40's and my buddy that collects cartridges in boxes snatched it so I have around 100 left. He owes me 50. 

That's more than I want to pay for .38-55's. I just need the brass really so I'll just shoot some 30/30's through my .38/55 and I'll have fire formed .38/55 brass. Headstamp won't be right but I'll just do a few for my own use. Gary


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## Kevin (Mar 9, 2015)

Powder and primers cannot be shipped without a permit.


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## kazuma78 (Mar 9, 2015)

Foot Patrol said:


> I could use 22 Mag. Since I bought a Henry Goldenboy I have only been able to get a few boxes of 50.


 For me 22 mag is easy to find. Its 22LR I have the hardest time with. I'm hoping the ammo bubble pops eventually and its cheaper and easier to find the ammo we all know and love sometime in the not too distant future. Also, I have a friend with a .22 cheetah and I cant find ammo for it. If in the extremely unlikely chance that someone on here has some id love to get even a few rounds just so we could reload the brass.


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## Kevin (Mar 9, 2015)

kazuma78 said:


> Also, I have a friend with a .22 cheetah and I cant find ammo for it.



I don't have much wildcat ammo a few boxes here and there but no Cheetah. I bet that thing is more fun than a barrel of Brinks. I hope he already has his reloading components for it though. The case forming die alone is well north of $400.


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## kazuma78 (Mar 9, 2015)

I found 5 or 10 casings for sale for it once but they were like 45 bucks. I wish Ida got them now. I just wanna shoot the darn thing.


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## Kevin (Mar 9, 2015)

My judge friend has spoken. He said that he is not issuing a legal opinion - just helping me with some friendly advice in a personal capacity as my friend of over 30 years, NOT as an attorney or jurist; the shipper must obviously fully comply with the specific UPS and FEDEX and local state and federal rules regarding shipping ammunition. He said his understanding is that it is perfectly legal to ship ammo cartridges .50 cal and under, and shotshells 8 ga. and under, as long as the cartridges fall within the definition of cartridges as described under 49 C.F.R. § 173.59 and also are not in violation of any rules, regulations, or laws of any jurisdiction where the ammo will depart, travel through, or the final destination. The bottom line is, just about anything we shoot is able to be shipped within *the 48 contiguous states*. But here is the most important part he said:

*YOU, THE SHIPPER, * ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR FINDING, READING, UNDERSTANDING, AND COMPLYING WITH ALL RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR SHIPPING AMMUNITION!!!!!! DO NOT RELY ON ANY INFORMATION YOU READ ON THE INTERNET INCLUDING WOODBARTER!!!!!!

For your convenience here are the links to the UPS and FEDEX rules and regulations for shipping small arms ammunition cartridges as defined under 49 C.F.R. § 173.59.

*UPS* rules and guidelines for shipping ammo.

FEDEX rules and guidelines for shipping ammo.

*POWDERS AND PRIMERS CANNOT BE SHIPPED BY INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT A THE PROPER TRAINING AND PERMITS!!! *

There's a lot of misinformation on the internet especially gun forums when it comes to shipping ammo. I spent 20 minutes on the phone this morning with a very helpful lady in the FEDEX hazmat department and she really put me at ease about shipping ammo. She said that the info circulating on the various forums about the blue ORM-D stickers being replaced by the black & white diamond without any writing was in fact supposed to take effect January 2015, but the DOT extended it 7 years to give ammo sellers time to implement new software etc. I said 7 years wow that's generous how long can it take to change the labels you print a whole few minutes? She laughed. 

She also said although it is not required, FEDEX offers training for individuals on shipping hazardous materials and dangerous goods. *Here's the link*. I'm going to take the course. She said it's fine for me to ship ammo in the meantime and that FEDEX never asks for proof of the training. FEDEX also offers air service for shipping ammo but it has an $80 surcharge above the already high cost. I told her we wouldn't be using that service lol. She said that when ammo is shipped ground it is referred to as _hazardous materials_, and when it is shipped air it is referred to as _dangerous goods_. 

She also said if someone does not have an ORM-D label and cannot print it, the label is actually considered a "marking" and the shipper can simply draw the label and write the text in the appropriate areas. No label is necessary and she said it does not have to be blue. This is the proper label you must attach, or draw:



 

If you draw the label, it must contain the words CARTRIDGES, SMALL ARMS and also ORM-D all within the rectangle. She also said that the shipsafeshipsmart.com training is not the only place to get the training. I don't know what it costs yet but I assume she might have been trying to tell me there's cheaper courses? Not sure though and I didn't ask her to elaborate. She also said to make sure we understand what type of packaging is required (thickness & strength etc.) and make sure we follow that strictly. IOW don't grab your wife's empty shoe box and duct tape 500 rounds in it and slap a label on it. Not kosher. 

THIS INFORMATION IS PROVIDED TO HELP YOU DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH. DO NOT RELY ON ANYTHING I HAVE SAID IN THIS POST. FIND THE INFORMATION FOR YOURSELF AND MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND ALL LOCAL LAWS FROM WHERE YOU ARE SHIPPING, AND *TO WHERE YOU'RE SHIPPING* SO THAT YOU DON'T VIOLATE ANY LAWS OR RESTRICTIONS AND END UP IN CLUB FED. 

*DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH** and . . . . . . Happy bartering**.*

Reactions: Great Post 1


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## Kevin (Mar 9, 2015)

I tried to sign in for the course . . . .







But I found out that the course is . . . . $150!!!

Reactions: Funny 3


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## HomeBody (Mar 9, 2015)

ORM = other regulated materials. Gary

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ripjack13 (Mar 9, 2015)

Kevin said:


> I tried to sign in for the course . . . .



Looks like your late....did you ask when the makeup test date is?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## ripjack13 (Mar 9, 2015)




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## sprucegum (Mar 21, 2015)

Grits? is that the same stuff I get at the feed store for my hens? they call scratch feed around here


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## brown down (Apr 8, 2015)

Kevin said:


> Powder and primers cannot be shipped without a permit.



I thought that they just have to be labeled HAZMAT!! well only the primers as they are the only explosive component in a shell? you have a link where it states you have to have a permit or does it go by states?

I would be in for this as well for .32 special the only caliber we own where we can't find ammo or brass for! The only thing I would be concerned about would be reloads! I've been reloading for years now but a lot of people have gotten into it due to ammo shortages! The only problem with reloads is who loads them!! nothing worse than a squib and not knowing what a squib is from reloaded ammo! Ive only had one in the thousands of rounds I've loaded but that one can ruin your day real quick not to mention your firearm!


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## Don Ratcliff (Jul 2, 2016)

"Move to Maui" they said... "it'll be fun" they said... I'm in the most remote place on the planet and I don't get to have ammo sent to me... "deep breath Big D, in with the good air, out with the bad. Remember that you have more koa then anyone else. Woosaaah... woosaah..."

Reactions: Funny 1


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## brown down (Jul 2, 2016)

Don Ratcliff said:


> "Move to Maui" they said... "it'll be fun" they said... I'm in the most remote place on the planet and I don't get to have ammo sent to me... "deep breath Big D, in with the good air, out with the bad. Remember that you have more koa then anyone else. Woosaaah... woosaah..."



I have a book that tells you all the states gun laws in a nut shell and Hawaii is hands down the strictest in the country! you have to register a firearm that is brought to that island within 48 hours unless it changed which I doubt it.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Don Ratcliff (Jul 2, 2016)

brown down said:


> I have a book that tells you all the states gun laws in a nut shell and Hawaii is hands down the strictest in the country! you have to register a firearm that is brought to that island within 48 hours unless it changed which I doubt it.


So you are "they".... where was that little nugget 3 years ago? I didn't bring my guns, gave them to my brother when we moved. I'm looking at a .270 weatherby now, I have to register with police station to buy a rifle. Once approved I can buy all the rifles I want for 1 year.


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## brown down (Jul 2, 2016)

Don Ratcliff said:


> So you are "they".... where was that little nugget 3 years ago? I didn't bring my guns, gave them to my brother when we moved. I'm looking at a .270 weatherby now, I have to register with police station to buy a rifle. Once approved I can buy all the rifles I want for 1 year.



Thats a freaking shame man. you shouldn't have to register any guns with government agency! the only guns that I own that are registered are my pistols and I don't even like them knowing I own those! a .270 is a great freaking round. my cousin uses that for his deer rifle and I load him 130 grain rounds. that ball is coming out of that barrel at around 3300 FPS  but up there if you so much as hit a twig that ball is no longer on target. I will say this tho he rarely misses and when he shoots that deer does not move they drop right in their tracks! My 30-06 on the other hand will plow through trees and still kill the intended target

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## brown down (Jul 2, 2016)

wetherby's are not cheap whats the price listing for that where you are? do they charge you to register that as well?


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## Kevin (Jul 2, 2016)

Why does one need a .270 on Maui, other than because We the Peeps owning more guns than the gov guns should be mandatory.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Don Ratcliff (Jul 2, 2016)

First, I feel I should be armed and have plenty of ammo to protect myself and my wife regardless of the threat. Second and what it will be used for most often is the over population of axis deer, and sheep, and board on the islands.
They are about the size of a Columbian blacktail

Reactions: Like 1 | EyeCandy! 2


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## Don Ratcliff (Jul 2, 2016)

brown down said:


> wetherby's are not cheap whats the price listing for that where you are? do they charge you to register that as well?


There is only 1 gun shop on maui, I haven't looked yet but that or the .270 Howa are the 2 I will pick from. They will order me what ever I want. The one I do get will have a ss finish because of the humidity here.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Don Ratcliff (Jul 2, 2016)

brown down said:


> Thats a freaking shame man. you shouldn't have to register any guns with government agency! the only guns that I own that are registered are my pistols and I don't even like them knowing I own those! a .270 is a great freaking round. my cousin uses that for his deer rifle and I load him 130 grain rounds. that ball is coming out of that barrel at around 3300 FPS  but up there if you so much as hit a twig that ball is no longer on target. I will say this tho he rarely misses and when he shoots that deer does not move they drop right in their tracks! My 30-06 on the other hand will plow through trees and still kill the intended target


The 30-06 is a good gun for sure, I just do not have a need for it here. The Deer are smaller and the distance is shorter. My brother hunts the trinity alps and is shooting over 600 yards using a 7mm mag. He sends me the video, you can see the bullet vortex in before the buck drops. My little brother is frigen Daniel Boone

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## Kevin (Jul 2, 2016)

Don the .270 is a great cartridge but it might be overkill for your situation - you really should checkout the .26-06 it's on my short list. The .25-06 has many advantages over a .270 and versatility is maybe the biggest. 

There's a good article on Chuck Hawks (which is my go-to site for reading up on any cartridge). Here's a few highlights I've taken from the article but it's worth reading it all. 

_The .25-06 was designed as a "dual-purpose" cartridge and is suitable for all CXP1and CXP2 game, which account for the vast majority of all game hunted in the United States. As the term implies, one rifle/cartridge combination designed to cover a variety of hunting and shooting situations.

Recoil in rifles of equal weight is 5 ft. lbs. less than the .270 Winchester shooting a 130 grain bullet. In a 6.75 pound rifle, the .25-06 recoils like a .270 in an 8 pound rifle. This means that you can have a light mountain/stalking rifle in .25-06 that will be within the recoil tolerance of the average shooter. The .270 creates a wider wound channel and has more energy, but we've already established that the .25-06 is an adequate caliber for elk. So, why have more of what you don't need? Instead, why not shoot a rifle with which it is easier to secure good bullet placement?

There are so many cartridge choices for shooters today that it sometimes seems that the latest trend-setting rounds must somehow provide new levels of lethality. Objectively, of course, that is silly. The .25-06 was a fine cartridge at its inception. It was made perfect with the arrival of the slow burning powders, and since its SAAMI standardization in 1969, it has not left the shooting scene. It truly can fit each CXP1 through CXP3 game need in a way that very few, if any, other cartridges can equal. Try a .25-06. You won't be disappointed!_

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Don Ratcliff (Jul 2, 2016)

Thank you. I will look into it for sure. I was thinking about a .243 at first but it's been so long since I hunted I thought it would be better to have something with more forgiveness. I refuse to wound any animal on 4 legs.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Kevin (Jul 2, 2016)

I'm not a big fan of the .243


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## Don Ratcliff (Jul 2, 2016)

Kevin said:


> I'm not a big fan of the .243


I'm a fan of a lighter weapon with less kick which is why I was looking at it. You may be onto something, I'll look into the ballistics of the 25-06 vs. .270


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## Kevin (Jul 2, 2016)

The .243 has a cult following but I want more energy. As the article points out, for the game on Maui the .25 will be adequate and then some. And there's something to be said for speed. You can't get a 270 moving as fast as a .25 and the .25 has a rep of being very accurate. The .25-06 shoots as flat as a 22-250 but the .22 obviously isn't even in the same league as the .25 with knock-down. The .25 is right at the doorstep with the .270 in that department with the right combo of bullet weight and powder chosen. I've done a lot of reading on it and I'm big fan even though I do like the .270. I actually started out looking at the 6mm and quickly saw the .25 was a better choice IMO. You can't shhot many rounds from a .270 before your shoulder waves the white flag, but you can take a .25 to the range and shoot it all day. 

Having said all that, I love my 7.5 x 55 Swiss K31. And the surplus GP11 is very good ammo. It's not really practical for hunting but it sure is fun to shoot with the straight-pull action.


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## Don Ratcliff (Jul 2, 2016)

I'm convinced thank you. As far as kick I'm 6'2" and 250# the kick isn't the true deciding factor for me. I had a 7mm savage synthetic, that would kick like a mule being castrated with a dull spoon. (You totally got the visual and made a face just now)

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Kevin (Jul 2, 2016)

Recoil hasn't been a huge factor for me either I'm a fire plug, but given a choice I will choose the pillow over the brick.
(You totally got the visual and rolled your eyes just now)

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Don Ratcliff (Jul 2, 2016)

Lmao! I did after "fire plug" then read the rest and wife asked wth is so funny from my outburst of laughter.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Don Ratcliff (Jul 2, 2016)

If you will excuse me, I'm going to direct the wife what and how to cut some wood for a shipment. By the eod I will have a box ready or divorce papers. Wish me luck...

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kevin (Jul 2, 2016)

Don Ratcliff said:


> If you will excuse me, I'm going to direct the wife what and how to cut some wood for a shipment. By the eod I will have a box ready or divorce papers. Wish me luck...



Well I am milling cedar logs right now can't you multi-task?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Don Ratcliff (Jul 2, 2016)

My wife, sharp power tools and giving direction to her while she is holding the shape power tools... you think talking with me while milling cedar logs is multi tasking? You sad silly little man, I pity you.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Sincere 1


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## Kevin (Jul 2, 2016)



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## brown down (Jul 2, 2016)

I own a A very rare .243 and have dropped plenty of deer with that rifle! when buying a rifle you have to weigh in a few things. most importantly what you intent to use it for and secondly how accurate and reliable is the weapon ! the rest has no bearing! I don't care if you use a 50 cal or a .22 at the end of the day shot placement is all that counts and that the weapon goes off! I agree with kevin that a 25-06 will be easier on the shoulder but if you ever plan on hunting anything else other then whats on that island you might want to up that caliber! There is no better north american caliber then the 30-06. My rifle will drop any animal in north america no questions asked! sure a .22 will even drop an ELK but will you put the life of that animal on the lines with a light caliber? I won't!!!! I will always choose to use the most lethal force I can, to put that animal out of its misery as fast and humanely as possible. If you don't then a .270 or the 25-06 will do. one thing you have to consider is that the lighter the round there further it will go but also if you hit so much as a twig it deflects BIG TIME! thats my 2 cents!

Reactions: Sincere 2


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## Kevin (Jul 2, 2016)

brown down said:


> I own a A very rare .243 and have dropped plenty of deer with that rifle! when buying a rifle you have to weigh in a few things. most importantly what you intent to use it for and secondly how accurate and reliable is the weapon ! the rest has no bearing! I don't care if you use a 50 cal or a .22 at the end of the day shot placement is all that counts and that the weapon goes off! I agree with kevin that a 25-06 will be easier on the shoulder but if you ever plan on hunting anything else other then whats on that island you might want to up that caliber! There is no better north american caliber then the 30-06. My rifle will drop any animal in north america no questions asked! sure a .22 will even drop an ELK but will you put the life of that animal on the lines with a light caliber? I won't!!!! I will always choose to use the most lethal force I can, to put that animal out of its misery as fast and humanely as possible. If you don't then a .270 or the 25-06 will do. one thing you have to consider is that the lighter the round there further it will go but also if you hit so much as a twig it deflects BIG TIME! thats my 2 cents!



Jeff, I'm not sure what to take from that. There is no best anything. Only the best tool for the job and even that is always going to be debated.

On a side note is there anyway you will allow me to send you a new keyboard for free? It will have all the keys except that one that does this . . . .

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## brown down (Jul 2, 2016)

hahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!! yea I tend to use the !!!!!!!!!! key when I am tipsy lmao hahahahah damn you are one funny SOB!!!!! I wan't trying to come across that I know every cal but IMO there is no better cal then the 30-06 but then again that is only my opinion from my small wood loving brain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! happy holiday weekend you gun loving SOB's  alright enough drunken wood bartering for tonight

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