# weird face grain in pine(?)



## phinds (Jun 21, 2015)

I got some reclaimed barn woods for ID and one set is either red or white pine (most likely red), I'm pretty much positive based on the size, density, and spacing of the resin canals and the density of the wood. BUT ... one of the pieces has this weird curl/wave down in the fine grain detail on the face and I was wondering if anyone here as ever seen anything like it?

@Mr. Peet does this ring any bells w/ you?

Anyone ever seen anything like this in red or white pine?

Here are three face grain pics from the batch, all of a 1/2" x 1/2" fine-sanded section shown at about 12X, one normal bland, one slightly grainy, and one with the weird curl:

Here's a piece that is exactly what I expect with pine ... bland:





Here's a piece that I think is a little grainy but still not much different from the "normal" bland one above:





And here's the weird one with the curl/wave:


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## Kevin (Jun 21, 2015)

I think it's qtr sawn.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kevin (Jun 21, 2015)

Those are some crappy photos to be coming from you. Work on that will you how do you expect us to help you if you post images like that geez.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## phinds (Jun 21, 2015)

Kevin said:


> I think it's qtr sawn.


Sorry, I should said: the first one is QS, second is flat cut, 3rd is near-QS. Does it matter?


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## Kevin (Jun 21, 2015)

Rift sawn - yes it usually changes the grain appearance


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## phinds (Jun 21, 2015)

Kevin said:


> Rift sawn - yes it usually changes the grain appearance


but I've never seen it produce that wave/curl before.


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## robert flynt (Jun 21, 2015)

phinds said:


> but I've never seen it produce that wave/curl before.


Have seen something very similar in live oak, quite a bit.


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## phinds (Jun 21, 2015)

robert flynt said:


> Have seen something very similar in live oak, quite a bit.


Oh, I've seen it in a few woods, but never in pine and this is definitely pine.


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## Mr. Peet (Jun 21, 2015)

No Paul, I have not seen grain like the third picture in either White pine or Red pine. I have in on rare occasion in Doulas-fir. Had you sent me that third picture without ID, I would have thought white ash. Even the second picture, pine would not have been my first thought.

I would ask, Where was the barn built? When was the barn built? Who built the barn? This may give more insight on the species used for the construction.


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## phinds (Jun 21, 2015)

Mr. Peet said:


> No Paul, I have not seen grain like the third picture in either White pine or Red pine. I have in on rare occasion in Doulas-fir. Had you sent me that third picture without ID, I would have thought white ash. Even the second picture, pine would not have been my first thought.
> 
> I would ask, Where was the barn built? When was the barn built? Who built the barn? This may give more insight on the species used for the construction.


Michigan is all I know. It's pine for sure, I'm just not sure what kind and was a bit puzzled by the curl/wave in the face grain. The owner was thinking it's white pine but I'm more inclined towards red. The end grain of all the pieces are pretty much indistinguishable and I don't see any hint in them about why there would be weird face grain.


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## Mr. Peet (Jun 21, 2015)

All of the "Red Pine" I've milled has all had a good bit of resin in the wood like its Binomial implies. There is typically a noticeable shift from early to late wood in Red where it can often not be seen in White pine. Is there enough curvature in the growth rings to reconstruct the log diameter your samples have come from? Red pine is rarely over 24" inches DBH while White pine often reaches 3-6' feet at DBH.

If it was built in the last century from native woods of Michigan, could either White or Black spruce be a candidate? I've seen that wavy grain in a European built violin made of an Alpine spruce, but don't recall which spruce.


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