# Choose my vacuum pump.....



## Jim Beam (Aug 15, 2016)

I'm ready to get into stabilizing and dyeing. At the same time, my wife has need to learn veneering by vacuum, Can anyone recommend a vacuum pump that will work for both? I have no idea what sort of hp or cfm I will need. Any suggestions are most welcome.


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## Schroedc (Aug 15, 2016)

I do a lot of stabilization and I went with a JB pump, 4cfm. A bit spendy but it's been dependable.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## JR Custom Calls (Aug 15, 2016)

I've had good luck out of my cheapie pump that came with my chamber (bestvaluevacs). If I were to buy one again, I'd go with a JB Eliminator though, as they are easy to rebuild, parts are plentiful, and the company that makes them has good customer support.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 2


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## rhossack (Aug 16, 2016)

If I didn't already have two I'd certainly be interested in this used ones that will do both jobs you list http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Vacuum-Pump---Thomas-315-CFM-120-VAC.html

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Chris S. (Aug 16, 2016)

I purchased a harbor freight vacuum pump to redo my ac system in car, now is being used for stabilizing. Been using it for months with at times running for 24 hours straight multiple times with no issues. I have done worst case scenerio with it, never changed oil or rebuilt it yet. Guess should do sometime but so far so good. Gone through 6 gallons of catcus juice so far so done a fair amout to date.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Schroedc (Aug 16, 2016)

rhossack said:


> If I didn't already have two I'd certainly be interested in this used ones that will do both jobs you list http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Vacuum-Pump---Thomas-315-CFM-120-VAC.html



I wouldn't recommend one of those fit stabilization. They only go to 24 inches of vacuum. In stabilization you want as close to 30 as you can get (your max vacuum will depend on your altitude, at my shop I can draw 29.6) I have one of those and I use it for veneer and vacuum chucking only. For each additional inch of vacuum you can draw the resin uptake grows significantly.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## JR Custom Calls (Aug 16, 2016)

Chris S. said:


> I purchased a harbor freight vacuum pump to redo my ac system in car, now is being used for stabilizing. Been using it for months with at times running for 24 hours straight multiple times with no issues. I have done worst case scenerio with it, never changed oil or rebuilt it yet. Guess should do sometime but so far so good. Gone through 6 gallons of catcus juice so far so done a fair amout to date.


That makes me cringe. I change oil every few times I run a batch. I use ATF instead of pump oil though. Much cheaper and does the same thing.


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## Kevin (Aug 16, 2016)

JR Custom Calls[/quote said:


> I use ATF instead of pump oil though. Much cheaper and does the same thing.



ATF no shite? I never heard that before. I change mine every other time or 3rd time as well. It's always nasty too I can't imagine not changing it at all.


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## JR Custom Calls (Aug 16, 2016)

Kevin said:


> ATF no shite? I never heard that before. I change mine every other time or 3rd time as well. It's always nasty too I can't imagine not changing it at all.


Yeah, a Texas guy recommended it to me. Terry Dunn. Makes sense as it operates much like the pump in a transmission

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tom Smart (Aug 16, 2016)

I began stabilizing with a JB Eliminator. I do the work in my basement and the oil fog that these emit put me off it and I purchased a pump from Veneer Supplies. As Colin said, you cannot pull as much vacuum, I get maybe 26 or 27 with the Veneer Supplies pump, but I am willing to accept the trade off.


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## ripjack13 (Aug 16, 2016)

Tom Smart said:


> I do the work in my basement and the oil fog that these emit put me off



Is that a normal thing for it to do that? Mine does the same thing. Maybe if I use ATF it will cut it down some?
@JR Custom Calls


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## Tom Smart (Aug 16, 2016)

ripjack13 said:


> Is that a normal thing for it to do that? Mine does the same thing. Maybe if I use ATF it will cut it down some?
> @JR Custom Calls



Marc it is part normal operation. Remember these are designed for the AC industry and are primarily used outside. As I understand it the recommended oil is a highly refined (and unnecessarily expensive) mineral oil. That would make it less of a hazard. Transmission fluid, on the other hand, would not be something I would choose to inhale, especially in an enclosed space like my basement.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 2


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## ripjack13 (Aug 16, 2016)

Ah...ok. I do use mine in the garage with the door open. However, when I first got it, I used it upstairs and smoked out the house. Good thing I had a house fan.
Imanidiotfordoingthat....


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## Tom Smart (Aug 16, 2016)

ripjack13 said:


> Imanidiotfordoingthat....



Well, come on in, the water is just fine. First time I did the same thing in the basement. And then continued doing it pretty much unvented until switching pumps.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## JR Custom Calls (Aug 16, 2016)

ripjack13 said:


> Is that a normal thing for it to do that? Mine does the same thing. Maybe if I use ATF it will cut it down some?
> @JR Custom Calls





Tom Smart said:


> Marc it is part normal operation. Remember these are designed for the AC industry and are primarily used outside. As I understand it the recommended oil is a highly refined (and unnecessarily expensive) mineral oil. That would make it less of a hazard. Transmission fluid, on the other hand, would not be something I would choose to inhale, especially in an enclosed space like my basement.



This is exactly why Curtis doesn't recommend it to people. I've not seen him recommend against it, only to note that it's potentially unhealthy. That said, the 'fog' only lasts for a few minutes until it reaches full vac. If it continues after that, you've got a leak somewhere allowing it to pull air in. There are traps of sort that people have made to help reduce this, or even eliminate it. In my garage, where I usually have the garage door open, it's a non issue, transmission fluid or otherwise. Plus, it smells good haha.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## ripjack13 (Aug 16, 2016)

Yep...it does it continually. I bet it's the overflow container...there's no rubber seal on it. 
Time to get a good one....


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## kweinert (Aug 16, 2016)

So the best I can expect up here is 24.64. Is that sufficient to even try to dye blanks like some of you folks have been doing? I know I have issues with my technique - and when I once again have a shop I'll be working on that - but if I can't get the pressure low enough to completely dye the blank then I won't worry about that and find other uses for it. 

Stabilization has seemed to work OK. Just not sure about the dyeing.


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## rocky1 (Aug 16, 2016)

http://www.altitude.org/air_pressure.php

I could be wrong, but I believe it will work for you Ken. While you can't pull as much vacuum at altitude, there is also a substantial change in Barometric Pressure at higher altitude, and it should all balance out in the end. If you plug your altitude in on the calculator linked, you can see the change versus sea level.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris S. (Aug 16, 2016)

JR Custom Calls said:


> That makes me cringe. I change oil every few times I run a batch. I use ATF instead of pump oil though. Much cheaper and does the same thing.



Sorry man, just telling it the way it is. If it makes you feel any better my oil is nice and clean and I don't have any fogging issues as the chamber is pullling great vacuum.

If you are getting good stabilizing results I would think you would be just fine dying as the dye is suspended in the catus juice so should go in just as well as the juice does.


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## TurnTex (Aug 17, 2016)

If you are getting oil mist with a good quality pump, it is a big indicator of a leak in your system. Oil filled rotary vane pumps are made to pull vacuum, not move a lot of air. When there is a leak, you are moving air through the pump and that it what causes the oil mist. They will all do it when you first start out but once you get down to full vacuum with a well sealed, non-leaking system, the oil mist will stop.


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## TurnTex (Aug 17, 2016)

kweinert said:


> So the best I can expect up here is 24.64. Is that sufficient to even try to dye blanks like some of you folks have been doing? I know I have issues with my technique - and when I once again have a shop I'll be working on that - but if I can't get the pressure low enough to completely dye the blank then I won't worry about that and find other uses for it.
> 
> Stabilization has seemed to work OK. Just not sure about the dyeing.



You will do just as good as a fellow at sea level. The reason is that the objective is to remove as much air form the wood as possible. At higher elevation, the air is thinner so there is less air in the wood to begin with. In a sense, you have a head start over those of us at lower elevation! You can take an oil filled vacuum gauge and remove the pin that keeps the oil in, equalizing the gauge at sea level, then take that gauge to Denver and the gauge will show a 5" +/- vacuum before you remove the pin again.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


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## kweinert (Aug 17, 2016)

rocky1 said:


> http://www.altitude.org/air_pressure.php
> 
> I could be wrong, but I believe it will work for you Ken. While you can't pull as much vacuum at altitude, there is also a substantial change in Barometric Pressure at higher altitude, and it should all balance out in the end. If you plug your altitude in on the calculator linked, you can see the change versus sea level.



Makes sense. Guess I don't need to mention that this sort of thing is new to me :) It also points to a technique difference and not as much the equipment. When I get the shop set back up I'll have to double check how much vacuum I can pull with my setup.


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## rocky1 (Aug 17, 2016)

If you didn't catch it, @TurnTex posted a link to his Vacuum Calculator at elevation in the thread here Ken... 
http://woodbarter.com/threads/stabilizing-help.28604/#post-371888

And, tells you how to find your local elevation if you don't know it. That should tell you what your target for vacuum is at your elevation.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## kweinert (Aug 17, 2016)

rocky1 said:


> If you didn't catch it, @TurnTex posted a link to his Vacuum Calculator at elevation in the thread here Ken...
> http://woodbarter.com/threads/stabilizing-help.28604/#post-371888
> 
> And, tells you how to find your local elevation if you don't know it. That should tell you what your target for vacuum is at your elevation.



Nifty. At the current shop: 24.67 New shop: 24.84 New shop about 200 ft lower.


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## rocky1 (Aug 17, 2016)

That's your optimum vacuum up there in the clouds... If your pump was pulling that up there before, you should be good to go!
Order up some dye, and go make some pretty blanks!! 


Oh... I'm new to all this too, I just remembered reading that lower vacuum at higher elevations thingy, I believe on the TurnTex site, back when I was seeking knowledge on stabilization methods and vacuum setups.


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## kweinert (Aug 17, 2016)

rocky1 said:


> That's your optimum vacuum up there in the clouds... .



Oh, I'm not up in the clouds. However, if I wanted to do some stabilizing at the top of Trail Ridge Road I'd only be able to pull a max of 19.47. Now *that's* up in the clouds. Above them, usually. 

Thanks, by the way, for the feedback and the link. I do appreciate it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## rocky1 (Aug 17, 2016)

Yeah, now that's up there!

Was my pleasure Ken. I'm trying to figure all of this Vacuum game out myself, and have been chasing answers all over before I start dying. Encountered mixed results stabilizing local woods, which at this point I believe is related to wood density. Not being sure however, I haven't jumped off into dying yet. Have the dyes out there, but I've been watching all these threads on Wood Barter learning before Ordering that much Cactus Juice.


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## Schroedc (Aug 17, 2016)

rocky1 said:


> Yeah, now that's up there!
> 
> Was my pleasure Ken. I'm trying to figure all of this Vacuum game out myself, and have been chasing answers all over before I start dying. Encountered mixed results stabilizing local woods, which at this point I believe is related to wood density. Not being sure however, I haven't jumped off into dying yet. Have the dyes out there, but I've been watching all these threads on Wood Barter learning before Ordering that much Cactus Juice.



My chambers are fairly good sized so what I do is mix just a quart of a color of I only want to do a few blanks, set a smaller container inside my chamber so I only have to fill that. When it gets low on a particular color I'll add sine mite resin and dye in proportion to bring it back up or combine a couple colors that are getting low (that's how made my first purple, combined a bit of blue resin and some red resin that were to small on their own)


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## rocky1 (Aug 17, 2016)

You storing your left over resin in the fridge Colin or just dump it in a mason jar and set it on the shelf between batches?


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## Schroedc (Aug 18, 2016)

rocky1 said:


> You storing your left over resin in the fridge Colin or just dump it in a mason jar and set it on the shelf between batches?



Store in plastic, I had some set up in glass containers. I keep in my store room. It's cool and dark.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## TurnTex (Aug 20, 2016)

rocky1 said:


> You storing your left over resin in the fridge Colin or just dump it in a mason jar and set it on the shelf between batches?



As Colin mentioned, please do not store in Mason jars. I have warnings about that in my directions. If you must store in glass jars, at least do not put the lid on tight. Cactus Juice does not evaporate so no need to keep it sealed and a sealed glass jar can cause it to cure.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## rocky1 (Aug 20, 2016)

That's interesting... Thanks Curtis! Appreciate the info.

Does it help to refrigerate?


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