# Is There a Chemist In The House?



## Kevin

I know we have one or more but cannot remember who they are. My favorite wood bleach has been discontinued. It was just too strong and the lawsuits filed by dumb asses with IQ's equal to the number of teeth in their empty heads and their pettifogger shysters for filthy lucre grew too high I guess. It shouldn't be very difficult to make. Is it as simple as it looks?



 



 


The solution mix was 1:1 and I'd like to keep it that way. What is hydrogen _dioxide_? I wonder if a simple H202 (hydrogen _peroxide_) and muriatic acid would work just as good? I realize dioxide and peroxide are probably black and white. And as far as the 'trade secret' recipes sometimes that's simply to mix something proprietarrythat can be patented. All I know is I have to find something that works as well as Klean Strip WB-19 did.


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## Matthew Jaynes

does it say what the Balance is ?

Sodium Hydroxide 7.0%
Borax 4.9%
Hydrogen Peroxide 30.0%

the additional chemicals withheld for trade secrets could be a pain to figure out much less percentages 

that is about 49% with the others stuff. I am guessing water is the balance to make 100% solution with the unknown of the rest of the ingredients


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## Kevin

So are you saying h202 is the same as hydrogen dioxide?


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## Kevin

And yes I assume the percentages are mixed with some aqueous solution but I wouldn't have a clue what they might be.


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## Matthew Jaynes

So from what i can tell from looking at the chemical make up is that hydrogen dioxide (DiHydrogen Dioxide) and Hydrogen Peroxide are one in the same both are H2O2.

Also from what i have read high concentrations of H2O2 is pretty unstable. and 30% is Laboratory grade concentrations. i dont know how easy it would be to get a hold of 25%-30%


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## kweinert

http://www.woodkote.com/ - look for their lite-n-up product.

It looks like the same kind of combination as what you were using.


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## kweinert

If you click on their "buy it online" link it'll take you to http://superfpaint.com . I'd be suspicious of their cart as it shows the same price for the 1 pint and the 55 gallon kit. If you can get 55 gallons for $46 (including hazmat fee) you'd be doing pretty good :)


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## Matthew Jaynes

Looking at the MSDS of both A and B mixtures the only thing lacking is the <5% Borax by weight


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## Matthew Jaynes

and trade secret ingredients LOL ei. Unicorn farts and mermaid tears

Reactions: Funny 2


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## kweinert

It does say it has something to be self-neutralizing, maybe it's just a different ingredient?

No idea, I'm not a chemist in this house or any other. It's difficult enough for me to mix up Charles' color combos by percentage sometimes :)

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Matthew Jaynes

@Kevin what is the manufacturer and name of the blech you cant get a hold of anymore ?

(Disregard i saw it at the end of your initial post.)


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## kweinert

The original post says 'Klean Strip WB-19' - I presumed that was the product.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Kevin

Ken I don't know how you found that but thank you! I'm going to order some if I can reach them on the phone and ensure they have it in stock - I guess they're at lunch - not answering the phone. 

Matt thanks for the insight on the chems - here's the MSDS for the product Ken linked....



 


 

It looks like the main ingredient is the caustic soda.


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## Matthew Jaynes

@Kevin i saw the MSDS on the link Ken posted, the only deference i can see is that Klean Strip WB-19 has <5% sodium borate and the Woodkote doesn't i am sure the two are potent and get the job done, good luck with the new stuff when you get it


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## Kevin

By the time I paid the hazmat and shipping it came to 77 and change. Almost pay to make this stuff if I used it a lot.

Reactions: Like 1


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## kweinert

Also check this link http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?140159-Two-part-wood-bleach as about ½ way down the page there's a post that says where you can get the ingredients and has a link to recipes.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Jim Beam

Matthew Jaynes said:


> and trade secret ingredients LOL ei. Unicorn farts and mermaid tears


I'd rather have unicorn tears and mermaid farts....

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Kevin

kweinert said:


> Also check this link http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?140159-Two-part-wood-bleach as about ½ way down the page there's a post that says where you can get the ingredients and has a link to recipes.




Hey everyone I have found a new favorite search engine check it out . . .

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 6


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## DKMD

A quick google leads me to believe that the peroxide can be obtained from a number of food service locations in a 35% concentration. I recall there being some hair application for a weaker strength(10-12%) which is still four times more concentrated than the 3% stuff they sell over the counter for cuts and scratches.

I don't know shinola about the lye or how to mix it.

H2O2 is the same whether you call it hydrogen peroxide or dihydrogen dioxide...

Reactions: Informative 2


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## elnino

Pool supply place should have what you need my friend wrote the aaw article on bleaching...message me your email and I will give you article


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## Kevin

I ordered the stuff that Ken linked - this stuff is even better than the WB-19 I used and liked all those years. This stuff is *powerful*.


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## elnino

Cool this is the link not sure on the power...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...vdYxcCjL9JXwuvyCA&sig2=YoE0ClRflyIS6IAT-q7tIQ

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kevin

Thanks for the link Matt I bookmarked it. This stuff wasn't cheap to get here because of the extra hazard shipping. But I think I have enough now to last a lifetime or more.


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## EastmansWoodturning

I used to tan my own hides from trapping fur bearers (coon,muskrat,mink,fox,ect...) and also deer hides. If I am not mistaken all that material you listed is available through places like Van Dykes and such.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Bowlguy_in_PA

I have a BS In Biochemistry. That Hydrogen Peroxide solution you need, according to the MSDS, is extremely dangerous. Same with the Sodium Hydroxide.

As an experienced chemist, I would not recommend you making this solution without the proper gloves, eyewear, ventilation and breathing apparatus. It will also generate A LOT of heat, depending how you get the sodium hydroxide. You can permanently burn your lungs from breathing the vapors. Depending where you live, ordering hazardous substances in a specific quantity, may also alert the local authorities and may not actually get delivered to your location. Disposal of material isn't something you can just dilute down your sink, or spill out back.

I'd suggest outsourcing the product mixing to an existing chemical facility or not attempting this.

Not only do you have just the "active" ingredients, since it's a trade secret formula, the MSDS you have doesn't show all the ingredients in the product. There may be other chemicals in the product that help stabilize the mixture, which don't have to be disclosed because of the MSDS "trade secret" rules.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kevin

Thanks Dave that is my view as well. I've been working with this stuff since 2004 or 2005 and am aware how powerful it is. It will seriously burn your skin without the proper safety precautions.


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## ripjack13

Have you heard of "Hoodbleach"? It's a 2 part method/system....
This guy over on MO used it on an sks and it came out good...

http://mossbergowners.com/forum/index.php?threads/got-wood.2975/page-10

Page 10...2nd post on the page....

Reactions: Like 1


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## barry richardson

OK so you got my curoisty up, what are ya using all that bleach for?


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## Kevin

barry richardson said:


> OK so you got my curoisty up, what are ya using all that bleach for?



Sorry I've talked about it a bunch over the past years. FBE is one of the few woods where all the colors are enhanced by bleaching, meaning it makes the reds even reddr and whites whiter. Actually I don't know if the reds just *appear* brighter because the amber sapwood gets so white which just makes the reds look redder, or whether they both do. And of course half my trees are already that extreme white and red and do not need any bleach at all but for the ones that do the bleach is just what the Doc ordered.

I haven't tried this new stuff on the FBE yet just the sapwood of ERC and it performed perfectly for that. Can't get it on the heartwood of ERC though because it bleaches all the color out.


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## barry richardson

Thanks Kevin, Now I recall reading somewhere that it had that effect on FBE, probably from one of your post lol


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## Brink

I did work in a lab for while...


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## F.W.von

Yeah, 35% hydrogen peroxide at your whole foods type stores.
The difference is that it's for organi. Consumption, unlike the stuff you get for cuts n scratches which is really diluted and inorganic


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