# is this an ok deal?



## lvstealth (May 16, 2017)

yesterday i went and looked at a table saw. i do not have one, i am a beginner and just want something to learn on. he wanted $100 for it.
i ended up buying the saw and some other things for $220. i dont know if it was a good deal, but it all looked new-like. the guy said he started a business, bought the stuff to make shelves, the business never went live and it is 8 months later and he is selling the stuff.
it is a porter cable PCX362010, a small table saw (cost $180 new... he said and i looked online)
a Bostitch BTFP0212 portable air compressor - (cost about $190 online, he said he got it for $180) 150 max PSI 6.0 gallon tank
a Bostitch brad gun, a bunch of brads, and a big red tool box.


 
oops, i didnt take a pic of the air tank, looks like new though, works fine. 

hope i didnt get taken, but i said why not jump off that cliff!
Lisa


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## Tony (May 16, 2017)

Looks like a good deal to me! I've never used a PC tablesaw, but I have enough of their other tools to have confidence in that deal. My advice is to spend the money to get a good blade for it, that makes all the difference in the world IMO. Tony

Reactions: EyeCandy! 1 | Agree 3


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## Tony (May 16, 2017)

By the way, I have that same nail gun, it's a good solid nailer!


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## lvstealth (May 16, 2017)

ok... what is a good blade? how many ... um... pointy things... why cant i think of the word i need!!!

the guy said there were $25 in brads there!


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## lvstealth (May 16, 2017)

teeth!! ohhhhh... do i feel dumb

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Tony (May 16, 2017)

I would think a Freud blade would do you fine. I use the Glue Line Rip blade, love it. For you, probably a 50 tooth combination blade is a good place to start. Tony

Reactions: Agree 1


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## lvstealth (May 16, 2017)

ok! it is 27 tooth rip blade (at least that is what the guy said it was, the writing on it is worn off mostly, but it does have 27 teefies)

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Tony (May 16, 2017)

That's a good rip blade. (For cutting the long length of a board). It will be a little rough for cross cuts though.


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## Schroedc (May 16, 2017)

27 tooth is an Ok rip blade, for crosscut I'd go with something finer. I prefer the Freud blades, they stay sharp a long while. They make some decent multi purpose blades that do well for both rip and crosscut. I have that compressor, for driving a nail gun or other small jobs it's nice- Just remember to drain the water out of the tank regularly to keep it out of your tools or finish if you spray a finish (Although except for really small jobs it probably won't be big enough for spraying finishes....)

If I recall you do a lot of pallet wood projects so you might want to think about investing in a metal detector wand to make sure no nails in the stuff you're cutting. hosing up a brand new blade sucks. Don't ask me how I know.....

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Tony (May 16, 2017)

Colin is right, that's a great idea about the wand. It costs $9 for every carbide tooth that gets broken off to be replaced. Like he said, don't ask how I know that...... Tony

Reactions: Funny 1


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## lvstealth (May 16, 2017)

I actually have a metal detector, got that right after an incident with a circular saw. It is cheap and used, but it goes beep when it sees metal

Reactions: Like 2


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## ripjack13 (May 16, 2017)

Lisa, you should also get/make some push sticks. 
https://woodbarter.com/threads/question-of-the-week-2014-week-17.14211/

There's several styles shown, choose one you think will be better for you....

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Schroedc (May 16, 2017)

Also, If you're new to a table saw, Whatever you do, do not use the fence when cross cutting. The offcut piece can jam between the blade and fence and come back at you at a high rate of speed breaking your face or killing you. Do some research, get someone who is familiar and comfortable with a table saw to give you some pointers and hands on instruction in operation. Not trying to scare you, a table saw can be a very useful piece of equipment and no more dangerous than a circular saw if you know, understand, and follow the safety rules, Just don't want to see anyone get hurt.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Great Post 1


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## lvstealth (May 16, 2017)

Hmmm... All good information. I have HUGE respect for things that can hurt me! I will get a push stick made. It came with one, but it is huge and awkward. Thanks for the pics! 
I have watched several YouTube videos, seems like everyone says make a crosscut sled. Steve Ramsey has one that doesn't look so hard to make. I made 2 rip cuts on a 18 inch piece of pine 2x4. I have much respect! I stopped, and am on the way to HD, and maybe Lowe's, I will get a blade, not sure if I need anything else to get started. I have glasses and like a doctor's mask (the little white ones). So I'm good there. Should I have some gloves? I'm not a glove fan, but I am a safety fan.


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## Tony (May 16, 2017)

I say no on gloves, for me they are a hindrance and not safe.


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## Schroedc (May 16, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> Hmmm... All good information. I have HUGE respect for things that can hurt me! I will get a push stick made. It came with one, but it is huge and awkward. Thanks for the pics!
> I have watched several YouTube videos, seems like everyone says make a crosscut sled. Steve Ramsey has one that doesn't look so hard to make. I made 2 rip cuts on a 18 inch piece of pine 2x4. I have much respect! I stopped, and am on the way to HD, and maybe Lowe's, I will get a blade, not sure if I need anything else to get started. I have glasses and like a doctor's mask (the little white ones). So I'm good there. Should I have some gloves? I'm not a glove fan, but I am a safety fan.



Skip the gloves, A loose glove can get caught and pull your hand in where a glancing touch on a blade might cut you badly but you can pull your hand back.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## barry richardson (May 16, 2017)

The Freud Diablo 40 tpi (thin kerf) they sell at home depot is a great General purpose blade for the money. Would be a good match for your saw IMO

Reactions: Agree 3


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## lvstealth (May 16, 2017)

ok, i will get it tomorrow. i went by today, i was just too confused. i had questions... but i will just get the one you say! so much less confusing that way! had to look up kerf, but i see!


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## lvstealth (May 16, 2017)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-10-in-x-40-Tooth-General-Purpose-Saw-Blade-D1040X/100055325

that one?
or
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Freud-LU...-Thin-Kerf-General-Purpose-Saw-Blade/37467093
that one?


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## CWS (May 16, 2017)

Gloves and machinery do not mix,EVER!!

Reactions: Agree 7


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## barry richardson (May 16, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-10-in-x-40-Tooth-General-Purpose-Saw-Blade-D1040X/100055325
> 
> that one?
> or
> ...


They appear to be the same although HD makes no mention of thin kerf. They should have em. Thin kerf is better on a lower powdered saw like yours, less drag, eats less wood too...

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 1


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## Schroedc (May 16, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-10-in-x-40-Tooth-General-Purpose-Saw-Blade-D1040X/100055325
> 
> that one?
> or
> ...




Either one. I use those Diablo blades regularly and have had no complaints. Looks like they are cheaper as well, The second one is a thin kerf blade so it'll make less waste but for basic rip and cross on pallet wood the 1/32nd of an inch or so you'll save probably doesn't matter. Also the thinner blades heat up faster if you bind and are a little easier to warp. As a new user, I'd recommend the cheaper Diablo blades to start with

Reactions: Informative 1


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## woodtickgreg (May 16, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-10-in-x-40-Tooth-General-Purpose-Saw-Blade-D1040X/100055325
> 
> that one?
> or
> ...


The top one will be a safer blade to use. Either one would be good, but the top one is a low kickback design. Not a guarantee against kick backs, just lessens the chance because it won't take a really deep bite. You'll never notice it. Freud blades are pretty much all I use anymore.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## barry richardson (May 16, 2017)

Sorry, Greg is right. Should have looked at them closer. What I meant when I said they both appeared the same is that they are both red

Reactions: Funny 6


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## lvstealth (May 16, 2017)

Thank you! i will get that, and i can get it in store and not wait! i hate waiting! - I love this site!!!

ok, next silly question... i am going to make a crosscut sled. and i have made a push stick. i am not up to cutting any bevel or angles yet... soon, but not yet. what other jig is a must have for me? 

i want to get my ducks in a row, and it is good practice to make the jigs. 

and... i need things for the compressor, a quick disconnect for the gun thing. and i need a thing that sprays air to blow off things. is there any other connector or gizmo i need for the compressor? just making a trip to the hardware stores tomorrow and want to get all i need. 

and... any opinion about glues? i was going to get titebond 2, is that good?


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## Tony (May 16, 2017)

Titebond II is all I use, great stuff. Might want to get a tire inflator while you're buying pneumatic attachments. Tony


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## Schroedc (May 16, 2017)

Tony said:


> Titebond II is all I use, great stuff. Might want to get a tire inflator while you're buying pneumatic attachments. Tony



Depends on the final use for the finished product. I like Titebond III for a lot of stuff and if I recall it's more water resistant. But I could be mistaken. I buy glue by the gallon so it lasts awhile in my shop


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## lvstealth (May 16, 2017)

ok, cool. i checked and a gallon is a much much better deal. 

ok, a tire one. good idea! and maybe a ball inflate one too. i saw a kit at harbor freight, it had a bunch and not so much money. i dont think there is a big quality thing in the connectors. thanks y'all! super!

i am very excited! i did several cuts today, i used the stringers for practice. i have figured out how to hold things ... i think. i made very straight edges too!


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## ripjack13 (May 16, 2017)

Here's a good video on safety and stuff...

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ripjack13 (May 16, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> ok, next silly question... i am going to make a crosscut sled. and i have made a push stick. i am not up to cutting any bevel or angles yet... soon, but not yet. what other jig is a must have for me?



What do you plan on making/cutting? That will help in figuring out what you need and what you don't need. But, a feather board is a great jig to have and can be use for most rip cuts, but not on crosscuts...




lvstealth said:


> and... i need things for the compressor, a quick disconnect for the gun thing. and i need a thing that sprays air to blow off things. is there any other connector or gizmo i need for the compressor? just making a trip to the hardware stores tomorrow and want to get all i need.



Either this kit...
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-20-Piece-Air-Compressor-Accessory-Kit-41225HOM/205332027

or this one....
https://www.harborfreight.com/17-pc-air-tool-accessory-kit-63048.html

both have the basics of what you wanted...but the husky has the teflon tape roll and 2 sets of needle inflators and the rubber headed air nozzle fitting...

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## rocky1 (May 17, 2017)

For the price a terrific deal! For what you're looking at doing, a terrific selection of tools to fit your needs too! You done GOOD!!

Compressor is maybe noisy (_ours certainly is_), but a great little compressor for what you're doing. Nail gun is awesome, have a Bostich that's shot I don't know how many thousand nails, (_many many boxes_), a bunch of them through sheet metal, (_i.e. it's been used and abused_), and it's never missed a lick. Never been apart for any reason.

While the recommendation on blades above is good, considering the nature of what you're sawing up, I personally would invest in a few 'CHEAP' carbide toothed blades to use in sawing pallets up, and save the good blades for good lumber.

(_Insert head shakes from all corners, boos, looks of disbelief, pointed fingers, and reprimands here... and get over it. Some times you do what you gotta do!_)

In repairing beekeeping equipment which is nailed from both sides of every corner, often dovetailed, occasionally glued, always painted over numerous times, it is often impossible, and always NOT time or cost efficient to try and pull nails to make repairs (_often multiple repairs_) on hundreds, at times thousands of boxes. You also typically do more damage trying to pull nails, than what you're trying to fix. And, therefore, although not really recommended, it is common practice for us to just saw the nails off using cheap carbide tipped blades. (_I know, I just made woodworkers the world over cringe in disbelief! But yes, we intentionally sawed hell out of a BUNCH of nails!! I admit it, I have ripped SEVERAL pounds of 8 and 10 penny nails in half lengthwise, and watched the smoke and sparks fly._)

That being said however, I probably have more experience sawing nails in two with a table saw than anyone here, and more experience with intentional destruction of carbide toothed saw blades than anyone here. And, I can honestly say that any encounter with a nail will dull your blade a little, and may in fact knock a carbide edge off a tooth, but don't think the occasional encounter with a nail is time to throw away the saw blade, that it's been ruined. Because typically that's not the case. You can saw a BUNCH of nails off before damaging a blade to the point it won't cut decently, and it'll continue cutting for a LONG time after it reaches the point it should probably be thrown away. (_Simply a matter of how much smoke you want to put up with, and we had a 4 foot exhaust fan right behind us with doors on the other three sides of the room!_) But... it's hard on equipment, and breeches a lot of different aspects of maybe NOT a safe practice.

So I'm gonna tell you, speaking from experience... Given the fact you're sawing up pallets, you are going to hit a nail occasionally, as cautious as you may be. You are going to encounter rocks embedded in boards occasionally and metal detectors don't find them, (_yeah I may have sawed a few of those up as well_). You are very much subject to run into broken glass. And, you will MOST DEFINITELY encounter sand and grit embedded in the wood (_yep got that all the time too_)... Do NOT spend a lot of money on good blades, to saw up pallets! Buy cheap saw blades to use sawing up your pallets, and save the expensive blades for good lumber. Hitting a nail, or a rock, or whatever doesn't make you cringe nearly as bad using a $15 - $20 blade, as it does using a $40 - $50 blade. It doesn't hurt nearly as much throwing a $15 - $20 blade in the garbage, as it does throwing a $40 blade away. And, $15 - $20 blades will saw up about as many, if not often more nails, rocks, sand, and other goodies than their $40 cousins.

Reactions: Great Post 2


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## lvstealth (May 17, 2017)

Ok... Scary, but I see your point. I will get 2 blades then. A cheap one and the other.

Thanks for the info on the compressor gizmos. I will get that kit, it looks like it has everything I need! 

I looked up the feather board, I can make that!

Mostly I am making bigger things, chair, bench, shelf... I hope to get better, eventually make more design oriented things with more detail and artistic flair... But for now, I just want to learn, get comfy with the equipment, terms and types of wood.

I have made several rip cuts, all on pine, all on the stringers with the cutouts for the forklift. So like my least useful wood, sort of scrap. I came in, and looked at things I can make, and I am going toake a stick chair! 





I cut 1.5" off the good side of a bunch of the pallet stringers, and mostly they are an inch thick. That is close to what the plan said (1.25x1.5)... So I will make the sled (and jigs I need) and this. And I should be familiar enough to even up some of the hardwood boards to make a pretty table top... Then figure out something to do for legs!

Sort of a plan! I have several 1.25x3.5x48 pieces of hardwoods of several types (most unknown to me... But thanks to folks here I'm learning what they are in the wood ID section). A few red oak, a white oak (I think), 2 maple (one is pretty red the other whitish), a black cherry, a walnut and some that I think are poplar, and a couple I think are more maple. So reds, browns, and many in between. I think it will work ok.


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## Tony (May 17, 2017)

Very cool look good chair Lisa, I'm excited for you! Rocky had very good points and ideas in his post. I would definitely go with the HD air kit. I bought a bunch of harbor freight connectors when I first got a compressor and they all leaked. The fit just isn't very good, not tight tolerances when they make them. Tony

Reactions: +Karma 1


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## woodtickgreg (May 17, 2017)

Home depot has one of those kits with a blower, tire chuck, ball inflator, and several fittings. It might be slightly better quality than horrible freight. Some things are good there and others not so much.
Rocky made some very good points.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ripjack13 (May 17, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> I looked up the feather board, I can make that!
> 
> Mostly I am making bigger things, chair, bench, shelf... I hope to get better, eventually make more design oriented things with more detail and artistic flair... But for now, I just want to learn, get comfy with the equipment, terms and types of wood.
> 
> I have made several rip cuts, all on pine, all on the stringers with the cutouts for the forklift. So like my least useful wood, sort of scrap. I came in, and looked at things I can make, and I am going toake a stick chair!



A feather board would be perfect for that project. lots of rips....
I'll get a pic of the featherboard I made from some scrap pine and my bandsaw....



woodtickgreg said:


> *Home depot has one of those kits with a blower*, tire chuck, ball inflator, and several fittings. It might be slightly better quality than horrible freight. Some things are good there and others not so much.
> Rocky made some very good points.





ripjack13 said:


> *Either this kit...*
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-20-Piece-Air-Compressor-Accessory-Kit-41225HOM/205332027
> 
> or this one....
> ...



Got ya covered Greg....

Reactions: Like 2


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## lvstealth (May 17, 2017)

weee! long day, but i got the kit for the compressor at HD. i got a few other things too. my brother let me have a drill press! it is a small cheap harbor freight one, but it is better than none. then... i got the diablo blade, about $30, and it had a special, a circular saw blade for free! it is a 24 teeth one. but FREE!!! yippee!! 

i picked up some drill bits, just a set of them. and they had an in store special for a forstner (or something like that) bit set for $9 so i got that. my brother gave me a coupon for a 12" sliding compound double bevel miter saw w/laser guide. it is a chicago electric for $134.99, so i bit the bullet and got it. https://www.harborfreight.com/power...-miter-saw-with-laser-guide-system-61969.html <---that one. so i am home, and hot and tired, and broke broke broke, but happy as a pig in poop!

now i need to do some reading and studying on how to miter my little heart away!

Reactions: Way Cool 3


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## rocky1 (May 17, 2017)

You are having entirely too much fun already!!

Reactions: Agree 2 | +Karma 1


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## lvstealth (May 17, 2017)

i really am! this is just the bees knees! i am giddy!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Lou Currier (May 17, 2017)

If you have a square make sure the blade sits 90 degrees to the table. The CM saw is notorious for that and always check the angle, don't trust the gauge on the saw when making angled cuts. Other than that it is a good saw but can be a little under powered for some hard woods. 

BTW...stop having so much fun!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Tony (May 17, 2017)

Same thing applies with the miter saw as the table saw, check out the blade. A good blade makes a huge difference! Be safe Lisa, and have a ton of fun! Tony

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## ripjack13 (May 17, 2017)

On chop saws, always be aware of where your hand is, specially your thumb....

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Informative 1


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## rocky1 (May 17, 2017)

You also want to watch your hand and finger placement when nailing with the nail gun Lisa. It's not at all uncommon for nails to split out the side of the piece you're nailing. In fact, it's a fairly common occurrence. Occasionally the gun will slip or you won't have it set just right and shoot over the edge of the piece you're nailing. If you're fingers are below it at the time, you will nail your fingers together. If the nail strikes bone, it will shatter it. 

Told a kid that was working for us that one time, for about the third time, and about 5 minutes later I had to pull a 7/16" crown staple 2 inches long out of his index and middle fingers, while he peed down his leg. Fortunately, he didn't hit bone, but his fingers were pinned together and perfectly centered in that 2 inches of staple. That was 40 years ago, he hasn't ever had to be reminded of that again, and he mentioned it a few weeks ago while I was building pallets with that same old gun.

None of the tools you have just purchased have a conscience, they don't care, they are not forgiving... If you make a mistake, they will hurt you in a heartbeat. Always respect the danger involved in using them!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Informative 1


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## lvstealth (May 18, 2017)

Ok. Got it. I have a healthy respect for them! I am fairly slow and go through everything in my head. I have even made notes on things I'm told here! 
As a youngun, I joined the military. It tonight me "procedure". I appreciate procedure. Lol. Doing things in order, and with order appeals to me. 
Y'all are really awesome! - Lisa

Reactions: Like 2


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## David Van Asperen (May 20, 2017)

Lots of fantastic advice , may I add---hearing protection? ear muff or ear plugs work well for me. A few times for extra noisey jobs I have worn both

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## lvstealth (May 21, 2017)

Hmm... I hadn't thought of ear protection. I have a touch of 400 hz deafness already. 
I have been cutting with both saws and I made a work table. 
It's about to rain for a week here so I will not be able to work outside.


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## Lazyman (May 21, 2017)

Did you make your cross cut sled? It is probably one the most important jigs you can make for your table saw. Not only does it make it easier to make perfect 90 degree cuts but it makes more difficult cuts safer too. Make sure that you research the 5-cut test for verifying accuracy. William Ng on Youtube has a good video on making and testing a CC sled. 

Also, I don't think that I saw anyone recommended that you test whether the blade on your table saw is parallel to the miter slot and the fence is parallel to the miter slot (maybe I missed it)? This is one of the most important things to do with a new saw. Not only does it help to make accurate cuts but it is also important to prevent kickbacks when making rip cuts using the fence. You should be able to find several sites on line on how to test this and you may have to refer to the manual for how to adjust the blade and fence if they are not correctly adjusted. 

+1 on getting some good hearing protection!

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## woodtickgreg (May 21, 2017)

Good points, a saw tune up is in order!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## lvstealth (May 27, 2017)

boy oh boy! i just love the new equipment! 

i have made a crosscut sled, and spent a LOOOOOOONG time getting it nigh on perfect (just to realize that my table saw is not designed to be perfect). i made a couple different push sticks, i think i like the L shaped one, with a long part that is on the wood and a simple handle that fits my hand (i spent a bit of time making it pretty just to realize it just needs to be simple... KISS principal). todays project is the feather board. i built a work bench, just a 3/4 in plywood top with some legs and a small shelf at the bottom. i will improve this as i go, but i thought i should figure out my needs before i get stupid. 

i can use all of the things on both saws. i am not comfortable with the sliding part of the miter saw, but i am working on it. i have found which gauges are how far off! lol. any time i use bevel or miter parts, i have to realign to straight, but i am getting better at that! 

i love the learning! i REALLY love the wood. i actually bought the wood for the workbench. just so i could get on with building it! my list of things to make is growing (along with my wish list of things to buy!) when i only had a circular saw and sander, i made things... now that i have a table saw and a miter saw, i have found SOOOOO many things i just HAVE to have! 

i want to thank y'all for all the help, and especially all the safety tips and warnings. to date, i have spent about 10 hours a day out there, and except for splinters and dropping boards on my legs, i have not had any incidents, not even a near incident! i will admit, out of the 10 hours i spend out there, not all is spent working! i am building a nice little area to "live" outside. i have not taken apart any more pallets, but i am using a lot of the wood, mostly pine, that i have harvested. i have sort of made a walkway out to the back, and i made a shelf (of sorts) for the wood i have. i made a place under the house (dry and clean) for the big stuff so i dont have to tote it out and in up the stairs. that walk started getting longer and longer as i started putting things away each night! 

it is suppose to rain later today, so maybe i will even get the house cleaned up!

i am not sure where this will go for me, but i know that i am evolving! giggle!

Lisa

Reactions: Like 1


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## ripjack13 (May 27, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> boy oh boy! i just love the new equipment!
> 
> i have made a crosscut sled, and spent a LOOOOOOONG time getting it nigh on perfect (just to realize that my table saw is not designed to be perfect). i made a couple different push sticks, i think i like the L shaped one, with a long part that is on the wood and a simple handle that fits my hand (i spent a bit of time making it pretty just to realize it just needs to be simple... KISS principal). todays project is the feather board. i built a work bench, just a 3/4 in plywood top with some legs and a small shelf at the bottom. i will improve this as i go, but i thought i should figure out my needs before i get stupid.
> 
> ...




Pics of projects are welcome!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Tony (May 27, 2017)

Glad to hear it's coming along well! Like Marc said, show us some pictures! Tony

Reactions: Like 1


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## woodtickgreg (May 27, 2017)

Lisa, you are off to a fine start. Just remember to always respect the power tools and keep your hands away from the blades. When ripping boards always stand off to the side of the work so if the wood binds on the blade and shoots back you are not in the line of fire. You will build many benches as you evolve and grow in your wood working, I have built many and I'm about to build another one. As long as you have a bench to work on it's all good. My first benches where just 2x4's and plywood too! I like that you salvage and re-purpose wood, I do that too and always will. The one thing I try and tell all new wood workers and even veterans is that wood is free! It is everywhere, you just have to look for it and be willing to put in the effort to acquire it. Another good place to look for pallets that will have good usable lumber in them are lazer cutting shops and sheet metal shops, almost all the sheet goods come in on large hardwood pallets. They usually are happy to give the stuff away, just ask. The wood will probably still be green and will need some time to dry to furniture grade, but still will have some good stuff in them. I typically see lots of wide boards of oak, maple, ash, and cherry around here. Just an fyi.
It's awesome to see you enjoying this craft with such zeal.

Reactions: Great Post 1 | Informative 1


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## rocky1 (May 27, 2017)

Check the Free section on Craigslist there in your locale, you should be able to find all the pallets you could ever possibly want.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 2


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## rocky1 (May 27, 2017)

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooo... You don't even want to see the ads for free wood in Johnson City! Gurl, you'll be in the pickup headed that way barefoot with no makeup on!

Reactions: Funny 2 | Way Cool 1


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## lvstealth (May 27, 2017)

i will check JC, it is only about 15 min from me. EVERYTHING is 15 min from me. i live in the boonies.

i have been getting pallets from this big equipment parts and repair place. they are close, and they get lots of heavy well made pallets. it is like Caterpillar and that kind of big equipment parts. and a flooring and tile place, good pallets and nice people. i have wanted to make things like the workbench and now i need some wood storage system. so... i am trying to pick pallets with whole 2x4s as stringers, not the ones with the cut out ones. they are 2 way entry pallets. 

oh nice! there is a bed place that has a craigslist ad for free ones, and a tile place! next time i go out, i will go by! 

i can get 2 48" pallets in the Suzuki grand vitara, but i try to never come home empty! lol

weee! i made a lap joint!!! well, i made lots of them. and... on a 15 degree angle! i read about lots of jigs and methods, but i just used my sled i made and cut a block at 15 degrees and used that. no dado blade, but i got it done! waiting on the glue to dry now. some joints look better than others, but i think i have it down now. i am just so easily entertained!!! i want the glue to dry faster! - L

Reactions: Way Cool 3


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## rocky1 (May 27, 2017)

Don't suppose the Grand Vitara has a trailer hitch on it? If not, after market Reese receiver hitch, runs $120 - $130 looks to be 4 to 6 bolts to remove and install and simple plug in adapter for trailer lights will cost you another $20 or so, the hitch and ball about that again. If you find a used trailer in decent shape you could probably do the whole package for under $500. 

But... You should maybe add a lawn mower trailer to your wood working tool list. Something along this line, with the tailgate removed so you don't have to fight that all the time. Unless you are hauling your lawn mower on it, the only real purpose it'll serve is letting you know where the back of the trailer is, since you may not be able to see it behind the car. A 4' x 8' or 5' x 8' will allow you two stacks of pallets, those trailers are rated 1200 to 1500 lbs. typically. (_At 1600 lbs. or over, under DOT guidelines, they typically require licensing; under 1600 lbs. many states don't. Within 100 miles of home, many states don't require licensing either._) And, your Vitara is rated 3000 lb. towing capacity, so you're well under that with either. My 4' x 8' is light enough I can hook it on the ball, walk to the back, and dead lift the trailer without a lot of grunting, even in my old age. 

If the pallets, on average, weighed 40 lbs. apiece, you could haul 30 - 40 of them without overloading the trailer, however... I really don't think you want to stack them that high on that trailer, since the trailer weighs virtually nothing and would be prone to tipping over easily, about 6 - 8 high should be adequate, and keep your center of gravity low. Pick up 4 ratchet straps for tie down, they're simple and easy to use. Run a couple front to rear and one over each stack side to side. (_Not a bad idea to stop after a few miles and check them to see if they've loosened up, if you do this._)

Then the hardest part is learning to back a trailer!  But, you could carry a whole lot more pallets per trip!! These trailers typically tow unbelievably nice for a cheap trailer, up to at least 85 mph, in my experience, and it'll save tearing up the interior of your car hauling pallets.

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## lvstealth (May 27, 2017)

i am not fast doing it, but i have mastered the "back up the trailer" trick. the trailer idea is good... but later. next i need a router or a planer or a lathe or a .... well anything!

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## rocky1 (May 27, 2017)

Cool!! That'll make things easier. I use my little mower trailer frequently, with a fleet of flat bed trucks at my disposal. Hook it behind the mother-in-law's Highlander or the wife's Durango. Built a box to hold luggage and pull it 500+ miles up to the in-laws. Works sweet, have to look back there occasionally to make sure it's still there. It's also low to the ground, making it easy to unload anything by hand. Keep your eye out on Craigslist for a good used one, and save enough to buy the hitch and wiring connector. If you find a deal, Yee Haa!! A sheet of plywood on the deck makes things slide in and out much easier also.

Installation of the hitch on the Highlander, which appears very similar to what you'll have on the Vitara from the looks of it, took all of about 15 minutes with cordless impact. Could have easily been accomplished in just a few more minutes with hand tools. Trailer connector required removing trim inside at both taillights, and left it laying in the spare tire well. Another 10 minutes maybe. When I need it, I simply pull it out the back and close the hatch on it.


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## woodtickgreg (May 27, 2017)

You could also take the pallets apart where you find them, then you could get more in your vehicle.

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## lvstealth (May 28, 2017)

well, i went to the tile place, and the manager was there counting something... i asked if i could bring my hammer and crowbar and disassemble them there, he said sure, just make sure to pick up any nails! so... WEEEE. great idea! thanks!!!

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## lvstealth (May 28, 2017)

my lap joint stool... dont look close. i got better as it went

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## rocky1 (May 28, 2017)

That's a right good lookin stool!

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## woodtickgreg (May 28, 2017)

OK, here's your next lesson.........never point out your faults in a project. Just say I made this and leave it at that. It took me a long time to learn that, lol. As you get better you will learn how to fix mistakes or hide them. That little stool is an excellent teacher for you, you tried things that you never did before, congrats on that. I don't see anything wrong with that stool for a beginner, you done very good! Be proud of that. I'm proud of you for what you accomplished.

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## rocky1 (May 28, 2017)

Now... What are you gonna put on it for finish?

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## lvstealth (May 28, 2017)

im thinking just some clear spar poly... it will be outside, what is best? my mom wanted two somethings to hold plants (one on each side of the door). the plants are there, but the pups hike on them, so she thought if they were higher than chihuahua hike high. i made these right at 12" (actually i am still working on the second, trying to be more precise). i have to figure out which finishes work best outdoors.

y'all are very kind and encouraging! thanks for the nice comments! i really am having fun with it all, and love learning as i go.


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## rocky1 (May 28, 2017)

Considering the potential exposure to chihuahua pee...  and outdoor exposure to the elements, yes ma'am, a spar varnish would likely be your best bet.

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## Tony (May 28, 2017)

I agree with Rocky, Spar Varnish would be your best bet. You're doing great Lisa, keep the progress coming! Tony

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## rocky1 (May 29, 2017)

Since pine is a relatively soft wood, you might want to use a sander/sealer on that before coating with the Spar Varnish Lisa. The sander/sealer is a little thinner, designed to penetrate the pores, and lift any broken grain. Quick coat of that, and once over with some 320 or 400 grit sand paper to smooth it all out will result in a much nicer finish. Whatever brand Varnish you buy, try and stay with the same brand sander/sealer. It'll be a little more compatible and help assure good adhesion of the finish coat.


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## woodtickgreg (May 29, 2017)

rocky1 said:


> Since pine is a relatively soft wood, you might want to use a sander/sealer on that before coating with the Spar Varnish Lisa. The sander/sealer is a little thinner, designed to penetrate the pores, and lift any broken grain. Quick coat of that, and once over with some 320 or 400 grit sand paper to smooth it all out will result in a much nicer finish. Whatever brand Varnish you buy, try and stay with the same brand sander/sealer. It'll be a little more compatible and help assure good adhesion of the finish coat.


Zinnser bulls eye shellac is a good sealer and it's compatible with most anything and available everywhere.

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## Lou Currier (May 29, 2017)

There is a tool out there...I think it is called the Pallet Pal...it is used while standing up and makes quick work of disassembling pallets. If you are going to do a lot of that type of work it would be worth the investment. I think it is made by Izzy Swan.


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## Tony (May 29, 2017)

https://www.izzyswan.com/product/pallet-pal-plan/


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## rocky1 (May 29, 2017)

Lou Currier said:


> There is a tool out there...I think it is called the Pallet Pal...it is used while standing up and makes quick work of disassembling pallets. If you are going to do a lot of that type of work it would be worth the investment. I think it is made by Izzy Swan.



Actually, they just sell you the plans Lou, and you get to build it yourself!! How cool is that Lisa?! Another project!!

https://www.izzyswan.com/product/pallet-pal-plan/


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## rocky1 (May 29, 2017)

Tony said:


> https://www.izzyswan.com/product/pallet-pal-plan/



I'da beat you with the link, but I went after the video for her too!

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## woodtickgreg (May 29, 2017)

There are a bunch of pallet tools out there, some even commercially made. I have been gathering the materials to build some that I have had on my mind for some time now. Missing one key material size, it'll show up eventually.

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## rocky1 (May 29, 2017)

If you go to You Tube from that video, most of them are listed on the page with that one Greg.

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## Lou Currier (May 30, 2017)

@rocky1 He sold the rights to the commercially made tool. 

http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/tools/93-eizzy-bar-pro.html

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## lvstealth (Jun 1, 2017)

that tool looks great!
next payday i will get the plans! THANKS!!!


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## woodtickgreg (Jun 1, 2017)

I think I found the last pieces of material I needed to Make my pallet dismantler. Just gotta find the time to weld a couple up and test em out.


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## Tony (Jun 1, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> I think I found the last pieces of material I needed to Mack my pallet dismantled. Just gotta find the time to weld a couple up and test em out.

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## lvstealth (Jun 3, 2017)

ok... i bought the plans. i cut the parts and drilled the holes. i have to go get a bungee and i have no idea what "SPAX Self Tapping Lag Screw"s are? help!!! where do i get them, and do i just ask for SPAX self tapping lag screws? they are 1/4" x 3"... well, i hope Lowes knows! i thought lag was not tapping... and it was a bolt, needing a nut and washers.


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## lvstealth (Jun 3, 2017)



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## Tony (Jun 3, 2017)

Lisa, SPAX is a brand of screw, the head is a different drive type. Not sure why they need to be that type.....

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## rocky1 (Jun 3, 2017)

Pretty sure they don't, but Torx Head screws are awesome!!

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## Tony (Jun 3, 2017)

I prefer square drive myself. Tony

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## woodtickgreg (Jun 3, 2017)

I agree, torx head screws are the bomb! They probably advise this screw because it is flush fitting, and may be available in larger diameters. 1/4" × 3" is a beefy screw.

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## rocky1 (Jun 3, 2017)

Could possibly be the missing thread in the middle allows you to screw through one piece into another, allowing the pieces to pivot.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## lvstealth (Jun 3, 2017)

I think maybe that's the thing. Pivot.


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## lvstealth (Jun 4, 2017)

ok! this is what i found, hope it works!

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## lvstealth (Jun 4, 2017)

ok... i must be dumb. or i cant read the plans. it said 3" screws, and i got 3" screws. but the pieces are 1.5" and 2". the screw seems to be suppose to go through the 1.5 and half way through the 2, that is 2.5 max. im confused. i was wondering if i could maybe post the plan so someone could tell me what i did wrong? or maybe what is wrong with the plan? or if i need shorter screws?


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## Tony (Jun 4, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> ok... i must be dumb. or i cant read the plans. it said 3" screws, and i got 3" screws. but the pieces are 1.5" and 2". the screw seems to be suppose to go through the 1.5 and half way through the 2, that is 2.5 max. im confused. i was wondering if i could maybe post the plan so someone could tell me what i did wrong? or maybe what is wrong with the plan? or if i need shorter screws?
> View attachment 128902



@woodtickgreg, have any insight here?

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## rocky1 (Jun 4, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> ok... i must be dumb. or i cant read the plans. it said 3" screws, and i got 3" screws. but the pieces are 1.5" and 2". the screw seems to be suppose to go through the 1.5 and half way through the 2, that is 2.5 max. im confused. i was wondering if i could maybe post the plan so someone could tell me what i did wrong? or maybe what is wrong with the plan? or if i need shorter screws?
> View attachment 128902



Something sounds a little screwy there. No pun intended!!

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## lvstealth (Jun 4, 2017)

i dont see any comments about it
this is weird. im guessing i did something wrong.


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## woodtickgreg (Jun 4, 2017)

Sorry I didn't see this until now, I was working on some of my own things today. 
I dunno, screws look too long. But I would like to see the plan.

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## lvstealth (Jun 4, 2017)

i sent you the plans, i would have posted them, but im not sure that is good. i try to be good... mostly, hehe

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## rocky1 (Jun 4, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> i dont see any comments about it
> this is weird. im guessing i did something wrong.



Probably not, it sounds like something is wrong in the plans, but without seeing them it's difficult to point to that specifically with any degree of certainty. Hence the silence!! 

And, no... you probably don't want to post them on the board after paying for them, as that constitutes infringement of copyright. Technically speaking.

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## woodtickgreg (Jun 4, 2017)

I looked at the plan, if she made the boards to the dimensions specified then the screws are too long, 2 1/2" would do, and she may have to grind the points off of them at that.

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## rocky1 (Jun 4, 2017)

From what she described, that's what I was thinking; I don't know what they were thinking on the plans. 2 1/4" screws would probably suffice if the heads are screwed in flush. Save grinding the tips off.


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## lvstealth (Jun 5, 2017)

Ok! I am just pleased that it is the plans not me being dumb! 
I'm surprised there are no comments anywhere about it. Or that in the years it has been out that it isn't changed. 
Thanks for taking the time to look!

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## woodtickgreg (Jun 5, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> Ok! I am just pleased that it is the plans not me being dumb!
> I'm surprised there are no comments anywhere about it. Or that in the years it has been out that it isn't changed.
> Thanks for taking the time to look!


You did good Lisa, at least you realized something wasn't right. It has been a good lesson for you for a lot of things, reading the plans, cutting the stock, angles, etc. And it made you think when something wasn't right. I have my doubts about how long this thing will last, but that's ok, if you break it you can always make another one, probably from oak next time. And you may want to make changes to it after using it for awhile to improve on the design. Or wait and see what I come up with, I'll be making some out of steel, they will be mail-able in flat rate boxes
But all of this has been good lessons for you, that's how we learn.......

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## lvstealth (Jun 5, 2017)

it is rainy today and since i am working outside i have a day to look at online things and find more things i just cant live without! 
Thanks for all the help, this is the best forum on the netscape!

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## barry richardson (Jun 5, 2017)

At first look, it looks like you need to ofset the screws, you have 6" of screw and 5" of wood. Are they meeting in the middle so that neither one will seat fully?

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## lvstealth (Jun 5, 2017)

yes, meeting in the middle. the plans have it that way. now that i see that, i am sure there are other ways, it is just a bit "difficult" that they are wrong. one would think that if you are charging money for something it would be right. i now have a pile of wasted wood with holes and wrong screws. pout. but, as it was said, i have learned LOTS! i am getting so much better cutting angles, and i can feel better about reading plans (never done that before) and i enjoyed figuring it out (the screws meeting in the middle and the dimensions and all)
overall, i needed this to learn about whats and hows. thanks to all!

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## barry richardson (Jun 5, 2017)

You could try shorter screws.... Personally, I'm cheap, I would just cut those off, do you have a dremel?

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## Tony (Jun 5, 2017)

barry richardson said:


> You could try shorter screws.... Personally, I'm cheap, I would just cut those off, do you have a dremel?



Or bolt cutters.

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## lvstealth (Jun 5, 2017)

no dremel, no bolt cutters. i do have some 2" deck screws. and i have glue. i dont have anything 2.5". i will get some. or redo the whole thing and make the holes so they dont hit.


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## rocky1 (Jun 5, 2017)

I'd pick up a pack of shorter screws and test drive it, BEFORE starting over. Just to see how it works! May or may not be worth the effort to rebuild. If it is, then by all means, do it again. If not , then think about what needs to be done to improve it before starting over.


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## woodtickgreg (Jun 5, 2017)

barry richardson said:


> At first look, it looks like you need to ofset the screws, you have 6" of screw and 5" of wood. Are they meeting in the middle so that neither one will seat fully?


Yup.


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## woodtickgreg (Jun 5, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> no dremel, no bolt cutters. i do have some 2" deck screws. and i have glue. i dont have anything 2.5". i will get some. or redo the whole thing and make the holes so they dont hit.


If you glue everything use the 3" screws you have, just alternate them every other side, you could even add a couple extra's.


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## barry richardson (Jun 5, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> no dremel, no bolt cutters. i do have some 2" deck screws. and i have glue. i dont have anything 2.5". i will get some. or redo the whole thing and make the holes so they dont hit.


Never give up, there's always a work-around, or as we like to say here at WB," there are no mistakes, only design changes"

Reactions: Agree 3


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## lvstealth (Jun 6, 2017)

oh! yay! great idea! glue and every other!


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## woodtickgreg (Jun 6, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> oh! yay! great idea! glue and every other!


Yup, just drive em in 1 right, 1 left, etc till done. With the glue it will be plenty strong and you can use what you have.

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## Schroedc (Jun 6, 2017)

@lvstealth 

Been great to see your progress!

You may want to think about starting separate threads for some of your different projects. It gets a bit long for a person new to a thread to scrum through several pages to find what you're working on now. It'll probably increase input on sine of your projects as well!

Keep up the good work!

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## lvstealth (Jun 7, 2017)

ok, will do!

just a quick update on the pallet pal. no bueno por caca... 
the first try, it just broke at where the bolt went through the handle/brace. i figured that when i tried to make it i weakened it... so i tried again



this time it broke at the brace



i am taking apart pallets with hardwoods, most i figure are oak, but some are who knows what. i am guessing it would work on a fairly new pine pallet just fine. i am giving up for today, going back to hammer and crowbar. i will think and figure it out, but times a wasting! have about 20 pallets to take apart and no rain today!


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## Tony (Jun 7, 2017)

That's the spirit Lisa, don't give up! Use some oak when when you try again, should be better. Tony

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## woodtickgreg (Jun 7, 2017)

Tony said:


> That's the spirit Lisa, don't give up! Use some oak when when you try again, should be better. Tony


I agree with Tony, make the next one out of oak. That is what I was wondering about as far as how it would hold up. I also think a quick stomp on this rather than a prying action would work better.

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## rocky1 (Jun 7, 2017)

Find you a pallet with some good straight grain oak 2 x 4s under it and rebuild.

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## lvstealth (Jun 7, 2017)

ok, got it. quick stomp. oak. is this oak? (sorry about the bad photos, just snapped them quick with my phone)
this is the pallet that broke the "pal"! i think it is, but it is a bit different than the other oak i have found. the end grain is right for oak, and it is pretty and heavy. i can clean it up and get better pics if necessary, but i figure if it is oak, you all know with the not so great pics... you are good like that!

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## ripjack13 (Jun 7, 2017)

The board I see in the middle is oak...not sure bout the outer two....

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## lvstealth (Jun 7, 2017)

they were all on one pallet, but i have found that means next to nothing. the end grain is from the one on the left. would it matter if it is not oak, it is hard?


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## Tony (Jun 7, 2017)

I don't have Paul's knowledge, but I believe all 3 are red oak. Tony


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## lvstealth (Jun 7, 2017)

i think they are oak, i think white, but i have been told color of the wood doesnt mean much. the boards that i think are red oak are reddish. but, i am thinking that i can make it from those boards, oak or not. they are hard, and it was a strong pallet! might make a strong "pal". 

a different question... a board foot is just a foot of the board, not a square foot measure, right? so what is a 4/4 or 6/4? (having net issues, cant look it up easily and i figure someone here knows!)


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## Tony (Jun 7, 2017)

Board foot is 12" x 12" x 1", any combination thereof. 4/4 is 1" thick. 6/4 is 1-1/2" thick, etc. Tony

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## woodtickgreg (Jun 7, 2017)

They look like oak to me, make it out of those.

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## lvstealth (Jun 7, 2017)

thanks! 

so... basically, in the 4/4 thing it is 1 per 1/4". i feel like i am learning a whole new language!

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## woodtickgreg (Jun 8, 2017)

lvstealth said:


> thanks!
> 
> so... basically, in the 4/4 thing it is 1 per 1/4". i feel like i am learning a whole new language!


1" is 4/4"

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## rocky1 (Jun 8, 2017)

One in the center is definitely red oak, two on the sides are likely sapwood, although end grain maybe suggests white oak. And, there is no rhyme or reason to what pallets are built out of. Many are remanufactured, and then it gets really iffy.

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## Schroedc (Jun 8, 2017)

Another way to figure board foot is it's 144 cubic inches. So 12x12x1 is one board foot, 6x24x1 is a board foot, etc. I usually measure in inches, multiply length, width, and thickness (round 3/4 inch thick to one inch) and divide by 144 to get the appropriate board foot amount.

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## lvstealth (Jun 8, 2017)

the one in the center does look different from the other two. but i will use the two that look sort of the same and make it. my calculations are that it will take two of them.

thanks on the board feet info! it is sometimes difficult reading some things with such a limited knowledge. i will get there though! 

when i pick out pallets now, i like the ones with the 2x4s as the base, stringers. i like the ones without the forklift notches. so far... knock on wood (hehe), i have discovered several very pretty boards. most, i have no idea what is under the scunge and yuck, so i just go for the 2x4s, pine or anything else are good for making things, and learning. i do use the slats, many are pretty good, but i have lots, so breaking them is not as important as trying to make it easier. the hardwood ones dont seem to break so easy unless they are already cracked. most of the pallets i get that turn out to be hardwoods are very yucky, till i sand them they just look dark and dingy. i like the ones from anywhere outside the US of A. i think that is just a fantasy/romantic thing (the far far away aspect). the best pallets for me come from a big equipment place (like Caterpillar) that is just down the road. i pick up one or two each time i go to town. so... with all the rain and a visit to moms, i have about 19 pallets to take apart now and i have a pile of slats and boards. i have set aside most of the hardwood, as though it were precious, hoping to improve my skills enough to make something really nifty. so... i said all that to explain... i am not sure about using my "pretty" wood for a tool i have lost a bit of confidence in. i will think on it for a few days and maybe improve the design and see how that goes. 

again... you all are the bestest!!! thanks for all the info, and the explanation on board feet. you have explained it so i can understand. sometimes i feel like i am on overload learning, but i am enjoying it! - L

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## Tony (Jun 8, 2017)

Don't get overwhelmed or discouraged Lisa! It can seem like overload sometimes, just take in what you can, ask all the questions you want. We're here to help you. Tony

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## rocky1 (Jun 8, 2017)

Should you ever want to be truly entertained watching someone build something, you should go watch a crew of Mexicans building pallets. There is a pallet company in southern California, will build any kind of pallet, made to order, ridiculously cheap. As in materials and labor $10- $12 cheaper than we could buy materials. 

Year we were out there working bees on the almonds we went to pick up a truckload - (_24 ft. flatbed loaded front to rear, 8 ft. high)_
I was watching them assemble pallets while they chased our pallets down and loaded the truck and was blown away at how fast the two guys were moving, without really looking like they were moving. Had a jig set up on a turntable, one would grab 3 - 2 x 4 and drop them in, the other would grab all the slats and literally throw them across the jig, then drag his hand across them to spread them nailing as he went. In the meantime the second buy was nailing bottom slats on the previous pallet, and stacking it on the pile. 

It took them awhile to get paper work done, pallets found, and truck loaded, (_there was about 20 acres of pallets there stacked 30 feet high_), so we checked the time on assembly of a pallet, and those 2 guys were turning a pallet out in under a minute. Next time you look at one, with all those slats, all of which have 3 - 4 nails in them, imagine trying to put all of that in a jig, spread the boards, shooting that many nails and pulling it out of the jig in 45 - 50 seconds. Handing it off to your partner, who flipped it, nailed bottom slats on it and stacked it to be carried away and grabbed your 2 x 4s to start over in the same time.

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## lvstealth (Jun 8, 2017)

I think i would love to see that! i wondered how they make them, should have known they had a jig.


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## rocky1 (Jun 8, 2017)

It really wasn't much of a jig. Table with three slots to drop the 2x4s in, was mounted on a truck hub so it would turn. One guy throw the 2x4s in, grab the previous pallet and flip it to nail bottom slats. The guy nailing top slats would grab a handful, and literally throw them across the 2x4s, run his hand over them to level them, sliding several toward the far side, then drag them back to him, spacing and nailing as he drug his hand across. He'd then spin the table to spread and nail the other side with final run down the middle nailing. 

Between the two of them, it literally sounded like machine gun fire or there. It was unbelievable!

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