# "New", Old lathe



## Woodsman (Jan 6, 2016)

So I've been sitting on this thing for a little over a year now just waiting on the opportunity to put it together. I've been so busy until recently that I haven't even had time to get on here and check out all the cool stuff you guys are doing. I've looked around, and it seems as though this would be the place to post regarding my latest project, but if not, I'm sure someone will let me know or move it to where it ought to be. 

I purchased the head and tail-stock from a fellow in Nevada who had posted it on CL for $250. I was needing one for a project that I knew was coming up, but wasn't sure when and couldn't find anyone who had the capacity to do long turnings. It's a hard thing to trust that the seller has a clue about the condition of anything on CL, but I took a chance that it would be at least workable. Had it shipped down here for about $325 and it's been sitting under one of my tables for over a year now. 

About time to start on the aforementioned project, so I needed to get this thing built. Having over a year to think and ponder just how I was going to build it, I already had a pretty good rough sketch in my head how to do it. Started with cleaning it up. Specifically, the "bearings" or races. They weren't all that bad, just had a fair amount of somewhat dried up grease or oil on them that made turning the shafts slightly difficult. Put them back together and began working on laminating the beam for them to ride on. Once that was complete, I began making all the parts to be able to use it as the head-stock, tail-stock, and the matching step pulley were the only pieces that were included in the original purchase. As of tonight, all that is left to build/attach is the motor and bracket. I'll post some picture of that when I get done with it. Enjoy! 

Capacity 21" diameter "inboard" x 12' 8" (probably could stretch this to 13' by sliding the tail-stock out a bit further off the end"
7' diameter "outboard" (not that one would want to, but it could be possible; this thing is built like a tank)

Attaching the beam to the 3/8" channel iron. The legs are 1/4" x 4" x 4" square tubing. (aka heavy) I'd guess that each leg assembly weighs in at about 80#.


 

"Beam" or ways design.....


 

The head-stock finally bolted in place and the new face-plate installed. The center point is removable in case I just don't need it there for some reason.

 

And now the tail-stock.


 

The tool rest. I'll be making a smaller 12-16" model for it, but for now, this one will do exactly what I want it to.





And finally, the pieces that I consider more important than all the others. I came up with the idea to make these to keep whatever I'm turning from entering my personal space. I hope they will never be needed, but better safe than sorry right? The idea is that they will be moved over the work-piece roughly 2' from the ends. In the event that the work-piece gets lose, it should contain it. Of course this won't do any good if the piece splits in half or something of that nature, but I don't know how I would contain that. Notice how they are conveniently pushed out of the way for loading.


 

And finally, the entire lathe. I estimate it to weigh in at roughly 700#. If I need to, although I doubt I would, I could drill some holes in the legs and stretcher and fill them with sand in order to increase the weight. 


 

Now to finish with the motor and get those porch posts turned!

Reactions: Way Cool 10


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## ripjack13 (Jan 6, 2016)

Yep...I moved it fer ya....

Woo..that is a huge lathe. What kind of things do you turn on it? Porch posts?


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## ripjack13 (Jan 6, 2016)

Oh...is this for the wagon axle you're making?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Woodsman (Jan 6, 2016)

ripjack13 said:


> Yep...I moved it fer ya....
> 
> Woo..that is a huge lathe. What kind of things do you turn on it? Porch posts?



Thanks! I was afraid of that. 

Yep, the first thing I'll have to turn are some 10' cypress porch posts.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 1


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## ripjack13 (Jan 6, 2016)

Well...I for one would love to see that done. Don't forget to get some pix of your process. That would be soooo neat to see in person....

Reactions: Agree 2


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## woodtickgreg (Jan 7, 2016)

Is there a name on the tag of the headstock? I'm just curious who built that, conover? Very cool to see this coming together for you. It will be cool to see you turning those post!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## barry richardson (Jan 7, 2016)

That is neat! Do you have a motor yet? I assume the headstock has bushings vice bearings?


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## Woodsman (Jan 7, 2016)

woodtickgreg said:


> Is there a name on the tag of the headstock? I'm just curious who built that, conover? Very cool to see this coming together for you. It will be cool to see you turning those post!



The name on it is Witherby Rugg and Richardson.

Reactions: Way Cool 2 | +Karma 1


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## Woodsman (Jan 7, 2016)

barry richardson said:


> That is neat! Do you have a motor yet? I assume the headstock has bushings vice bearings?



Working on the motor portion of it. I'll be posting that as soon as it's completed. The here's what the head-stock looks like. I cleaned it a little better after this photo was taken. I used a paper gasket to help seal it although it can't completely seal it at all. I'm currently using 80/90 gear oil in it although I'd welcome suggestions from some of the more knowledgeable folks out there. The hole that you can see in the top is where lubrication would be added.

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## sprucegum (Jan 9, 2016)

Wonder if it might have had a grease cup on it originally? The groove in the bearing cap looks to me like it was made to carry the grease along the length of the shaft. If that is the case just install a grease fitting and give it a shot once in a while with your grease gun.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sidecar (Jan 9, 2016)

barry richardson said:


> That is neat! Do you have a motor yet? I assume the headstock has bushings vice bearings?


I could they be poured babbit......?


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## Sidecar (Jan 9, 2016)

Woodsman said:


> Working on the motor portion of it. I'll be posting that as soon as it's completed. The here's what the head-stock looks like. I cleaned it a little better after this photo was taken. I used a paper gasket to help seal it although it can't completely seal it at all. I'm currently using 80/90 gear oil in it although I'd welcome suggestions from some of the more knowledgeable folks out there. The hole that you can see in the top is where lubrication would be added.
> 
> View attachment 94530


Well shoot .....had it in my mind what I was going to say. ....time to call the vet and get the big shot.....
Anyway was going to suggest checking the clearance between the bearing journal and shaft.....might help in the choice of grease or oil......just a thought


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## sprucegum (Jan 9, 2016)

Also could have had a drip oiler, those are still available new as replacements on the old hit & miss gas engines. You can find them on Ebay the Chinese make the, surprise surprise


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## woodtickgreg (Jan 9, 2016)

It had a drip oiler originally would be my guess. Clearance on the spindle was probably about .001" or less. They where made to run on a film of oil like a car engine. That style of headstock appears to not have an oil reservoir below the spindle shaft that would be fed with a felt wick like my old southbend. This is a constant loss oiling system and more than likely had the drip oil reservoirs mounted on top of the spindle caps. Was there any shims under the cap when you pulled it? Spindle gap clearance on these needs to be set properly or they will starve for oil and sieze, too much clearance and the same thing can happen. This can be checked by feeling the the bearing caps as it is running to see if they are getting warm, they should not, and this needs to be run for about an hour to se if the spindle and headstock gets warm or hot. A little warm is ok, hot is not.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


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## Mr. Peet (Jan 11, 2016)

Looks like my brother's one lathe. His was babbit bearings, had a grease cup in his to limit debris from getting in I assume. He uses STP in a 8 ounce pump oil can to top the cup off before each use. Good luck.


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## Woodsman (Jan 13, 2016)

Thanks for the info guys. It doesn't have any threads in the holes above the "bearings", so I had presumed it didn't have a grease cup as I've seen those before, and all of them have been threaded. I suspect that it had a drip oil system of some type, although I haven't ever seen one and this certainly didn't have it when I got it. 

I finally got the motor and it's components hooked up today. Here's a picture of the quick and nasty control box that I made for it.


 
Some things about it: 

1. That is the speed readout on the bottom left side.
2. Yes, it is reading the correct speed.
3. An Arduino is used to report the speed to the LCD screen.
4. A reed switch is used to feed the Arduino.
5. A 10k potentiometer is used to control the DC motor which allows such a slow speed. 

Now before you turners go balking about such a low rpm, realize that it will eventually get used as a CNC type lathe as well. This slow speed will allow for turning raw tree branches to round with a spindle (or router) mounted on a rail on the back side of the lathe. Slow speeds will certainly help with that.

I used a treadmill motor and controller to power it and from what I've seen so far, it should have plenty of power at 2.5 HP. It takes a little while to wind down with all that weight of the headstock "pulley's" and the treadmill motors extra heavy pulley. I still have some prettying up to do to it, but I have got to put it to use tomorrow, so it'll have to wait.

Reactions: Like 2 | Way Cool 2


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## Woodsman (Jan 13, 2016)

I forgot to mention that it's max speed is just shy of 1600 RPM. I suppose that I might want something turning that fast on here, but it'd have to be in the 4-5' range I'd think before I'd want to.

Also, here is a picture of the machine running as well as some of the motor assembly. I'll try and get some better pictures tomorrow. Also, I left the switch that a runner would attach to themselves to shut the machine off. I figured as long as this thing is, it wouldn't hurt to have another safety built in, and it was already there, so why not? I ran some twine to the other end of the machine and attached it to the bed leaving just enough length to drape the twine over the handles of the tool rest so that I wouldn't have to go searching for it if I ever felt I needed it.

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## woodtickgreg (Jan 13, 2016)

So what did you come up with for oiling the head stock and spindle? Does the spindle bearing cap get warm as you run it? Some of the older drip oilers where press in and not screw in.


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## Woodsman (Jan 14, 2016)

So far, a dropper that used to be used for infant medicine, but has found a new home in the shop. I'm using 90 weight gear oil, but it's making a mess as it dribbles out. Do you guys think it possible to squeeze in some grease instead on a regular basis so I can keep from making a mess of things?


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## Mr. Peet (Jan 14, 2016)

Brother Herb's grease cup has a tapered end and just slides in and held by friction and gravity. Apparently it does pop out on occasion. Do you have STP to try? Greg, have you ever used STP treatment as an oiler? I think this is like the 20th year or more for my brother, but that lathe only sees a few jobs a year.

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## barry richardson (Jan 14, 2016)

That is a heck of a project Wesley!

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## sprucegum (Jan 14, 2016)

Woodsman said:


> So far, a dropper that used to be used for infant medicine, but has found a new home in the shop. I'm using 90 weight gear oil, but it's making a mess as it dribbles out. Do you guys think it possible to squeeze in some grease instead on a regular basis so I can keep from making a mess of things?


It would not be a big job to drill out the lubrication hole and tap it for iron pipe thread then if necessary bush it to take a oiler or grease fitting. I think after you are satisfied that is going to do all that you hoping for it may be worth the investment to have a machine shop install some modern bearings. That would eliminate the mess and guess work of a drip system and allow you to ramp up the speed if so desired.


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## woodtickgreg (Jan 14, 2016)

Mr. Peet said:


> Brother Herb's grease cup has a tapered end and just slides in and held by friction and gravity. Apparently it does pop out on occasion. Do you have STP to try? Greg, have you ever used STP treatment as an oiler? I think this is like the 20th year or more for my brother, but that lathe only sees a few jobs a year.


No I have not, but it might be a good option in this lathe as stp is very thick. Most lathes that have better bearings run a thinner viscosity of oil. This lathe doesn't actually have bearings, it's just the spindle riding on the head stock casting. If it isn't set up properly or uses the right lube it could wipe out the spindle and casting. Grease is for bearings and this lathe doesn't have any. It appears to be a constant loss oiling system.


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## Woodsman (Jan 17, 2016)

Well I've gotten the first post turned. I'd say all went pretty well. I started roughing out at about 250RPM and by the time I was round, I was running about 550RPM. I realize that's not that fast, but it's definitely faster than I originally thought I'd be able to turn it. I think the next one will start out a bit faster, I was just testing the waters so to speak with this one. There's still 3' on each end that is 5.25" square, so 1500RPM is probably not doable (at least for me, it worries me at that speed). I'm working on a makeshift steady rest that can help with the slight vibration that I get in the middle while cutting. I sort of expected it, but didn't know how much there'd be. I'm not a turner, so I'm sure it took me longer than someone who is. I did hear a little bit of a sort of grinding noise from the headstock at one point. I immediately took it apart to inspect, but found nothing that showed any signs of wear on it. I suspect that what I was hearing was the brass bushing that takes the pressure from the tailstock and keeps the headstock bearings aligned. It doesn't have a place for oil, so it dries out faster than the bearings do. I'm going to look into an actual bearing for this as it would seem that would work much better. Ideas???

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## Woodsman (Jan 30, 2016)

I've finally gotten around to getting a short youtube video up showing it running in case anyone is interested. On another note, has anyone ever had any experience using a steady rest? Is it in fact completely or nearly completely rigid? This, among other things was one of the things that I had trouble with. It didn't seem as though the steady rest that I hastily built was strong enough to remain rigid enough to ramp up the speed even to the 650 rpm range. I would spend the money and build or buy a good one if I knew that it would in fact help, I just have no experience with one. Additionally, are there any members that have any experience at all with this sort of work? I'd love to pick your brain a bit. Not having turned much prior to this, a couple of pens, 2 sets of table legs, and a couple of really small bowls, I'd like to know if it's even possible to achieve a higher rpm for smoother and faster turning. I was able to turn at about 500 rpm once it was sort of round, but never much more than that.


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## woodtickgreg (Jan 30, 2016)

That's not too bad considering the size of the blank. To get the speed up it would have to be more rounded to get it into balance and the lathe legs would have to be weighted down with some substantial weight, or bolted down. But all things considered that really isn't a bad speed for something so large. Steady rest do help a great deal, they need a smooth surface to ride on. A 3 point contact with rollers for contacts is the norm. One can be made with inline skate wheels.


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## Woodsman (Jan 30, 2016)

I'm fairly certain that I could have turned the speed up more if it didn't vibrate in the middle so much, especially once a cutter hit it. While I'll admit that the steady rest I made was a thrown together one, I have to wonder if the amount of vibration that I was left with could have been eliminated with the construction or acquisition of a better quality steady rest. I originally used inline skate wheels, but they were leaving quite deep depressions in the blanks. The bearings in them didn't last very long either, only about 1 post. The wheels that I used were used and likely pretty cheap. I swapped them out with some alternator bearings that I had plenty of and they seemed to work fairly well as they were flat with a little wider footprint than the skate wheels. They also seemed to hold up far better than the skate wheels. I found some slightly softer skate wheels locally, but at $35 for 8 of them, I opted to use what I had. 

I don't think I had any trouble with the weight of the machine though. I estimate that the bed weighs in at about 400#, the legs at around 90# each, the head stock at about 125#, tail stock at 85#, and the motor, etc at about 75#, so the entire machine weighs around 850-900 pounds. I never did notice any shaking of the machine itself, and never could really feel much vibration in it either. I could detect it, but it wasn't anything akin to placing your hand atop a vibratory sander while running even at the sanders slowest speed, or even a cell phone's vibration. Very light and minimal even when the post would begin to vibrate a bit. I never let it get too much in it (maybe an eighth inch as viewed across the top of the round spindle when vibrating out of round, and even then only for a brief moment. I didn't let it continue like this very long for fear of the blank busting apart. It had a fair amount of cracks in it from drying out and I really didn't want to chance being a shish kabob. 

This lumber has been sort of drying in a stack for about 2 years now. I suspect that this was another of my problems. It appeared to "move" while turning the center out thus creating a "blank" that was no longer straight. I straightened them just before turning them so that I would at least have straight pieces to start with. 

Thanks for all the feed back!

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## woodtickgreg (Jan 31, 2016)

Better quality skate wheels are the way to go in my opinion, I use them at high rpm and for long periods of time and they have held up fine. They will leave a ring around the wood where they make contact but it will sand out very easy. But what you are doing is not normal turning either, very long blanks that move as they are being turned and the possibility of lots of flex in the middle. A stout 3 point captured steady rest, and maybe even 2 might be in order.

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## sprucegum (Jan 31, 2016)

woodtickgreg said:


> Better quality skate wheels are the way to go in my opinion, I use them at high rpm and for long periods of time and they have held up fine. They will leave a ring around the wood where they make contact but it will sand out very easy. But what you are doing is not normal turning either, very long blanks that move as they are being turned and the possibility of lots of flex in the middle. A stout 3 point captured steady rest, and maybe even 2 might be in order.



I just built a steady rest for my little lathe and used some plain sealed bearings. Used them mostly because I had them hanging on a nail in the shop. They are 3/4 bore and 3/8 wide and I think a couple of inches in diameter. They are some spares I bought on ebay for another project, I think it was a 5 for so much $ and I need 2. I looked at inline skate wheels and the seemed a little pricey for new ones and I would have ended up buying way more than I needed. I guess the way to get them is off skates someone threw away. I would think on a turning that large you could almost use lawnmower tires

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