# Why grass don't grow



## robert flynt (Nov 4, 2013)

Why doesn't grass grow under oak trees? Was told that it was biological warfare on the oak trees part and that oaks leach a type of acid from its leaves that makes the soil acidic and hard for a lot of other plant to survive under them. Is this so?

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## DKMD (Nov 4, 2013)

Hmmm... I've heard that about walnut trees but not oaks. I'll be tuning in here to learn a thing or ten... (Popcorn smiley)

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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Nov 4, 2013)

Shade. Most grass will not tolerate low light conditions. Poa trivialis (rough blue grass) is the best grass to plant in low light conditions.


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## rdnkmedic (Nov 5, 2013)

As Doc says walnut secretes a chemical called juglone. A natural herbicide. And can also cause allergic reaction in people. Never heard that about oaks. Just shades out other plants.


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## Kevin (Nov 5, 2013)

Robert, oak trees actually secrete the most powerful grass-friendly fertilizer on the planet. The problem is, it's *so* potent and heavy with nutrients that its molecular weight is off the charts - heavier even than mercury by far. So as soon as it hits the earth it dashes its way to the exact opposite side of the planet. So while the grass does start to grow beneath the oaks for a very short span of time, in only a matter of a half day or so, the grass roots have grown behind, and followed the heavy molecules all the way through the earth and sprouted on the other side of the planet as bamboo, due to the mutations of the grass molecules from pressure and heat in the earths core. Once this happens, the bamboo grasslings have enough strength to pull their 8000 mile long hair-thin oak-fertilized roots up through the earth and use all those nutrients to grow into enormous shoots of bamboo. This is why there are so many bamboo forests in China.

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## Mike Jones (Nov 5, 2013)

Thanks, Kevin! I had always heard that, but I am grateful to have the facts confirmed.


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## ironman123 (Nov 5, 2013)

Kevin wins the tee shirt (made from fibers of the bamboo leaves).

Ray

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## robert flynt (Nov 5, 2013)

Treecycle Hardwoods said:


> Shade. Most grass will not tolerate low light conditions. Poa trivialis (rough blue grass) is the best grass to plant in low light conditions.


 No blue grass down here, St Augustine is our shade tolerant grass but I don't think shade is the total problem. When the oaks I planted were to young for shade to be a factor I noticed a distinct circle where the grass quit growing all the way out to the outter edges of the limbs. Now that the trees are 15 yrs older there is nothing growing directly under them as you would expect, due to shade but there is still a distinct line where the grass stops growing when shade should not be that much of a factor and I have some pretty behaia grass in the yard that is hard to kill but when it tries to spread it will grow to the edge of the canopy and turns brown. Azalias which prefer an acid soil seem to do ok under the big oaks and if enough sun light gets through they thrive.

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## robert flynt (Nov 5, 2013)

Kevin said:


> Robert, oak trees actually secrete the most powerful grass-friendly fertilizer on the planet. The problem is, it's *so* potent and heavy with nutrients that its molecular weight is off the charts - heavier even than mercury by far. So as soon as it hits the earth it dashes its way to the exact opposite side of the planet. So while the grass does start to grow beneath the oaks for a very short span of time, in only a matter of a half day or so, the grass roots have grown behind, and followed the heavy molecules all the way through the earth and sprouted on the other side of the planet as bamboo, due to the mutations of the grass molecules from pressure and heat in the earths core. Once this happens, the bamboo grasslings have enough strength to pull their 8000 mile long hair-thin oak-fertilized roots up through the earth and use all those nutrients to grow into enormous shoots of bamboo. This is why there are so many bamboo forests in China.


 I don't have to tell you that your, as my Irish grang mother would saw, full of blarney do I !!!

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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Nov 5, 2013)

robert flynt said:


> No blue grass down here, St Augustine is our shade tolerant grass but I don't think shade is the total problem. When the oaks I planted were to young for shade to be a factor I noticed a distinct circle where the grass quit growing all the way out to the outter edges of the limbs. Now that the trees are 15 yrs older there is nothing growing directly under them as you would expect, due to shade but there is still a distinct line where the grass stops growing when shade should not be that much of a factor and I have some pretty behaia grass in the yard that is hard to kill but when it tries to spread it will grow to the edge of the canopy and turns brown. Azalias which prefer an acid soil seem to do ok under the big oaks and if enough sun light gets through they thrive.


Have you checked the lawn for chinch bugs, mole crickets, and grubs ? Grubs tend to be a bigger problem as you get closer to the sea. Another thing you could look into is potash supplements. FLORIDA soil needs extra potash on a regular basis. The oak tree may be using most of what is there and the grass isn't getting enough.

St Augustine grass is sun loving BTW. It can be killed by chinch bugs easily and needs a good water supply to do well. 

Bahia is a favorite snack for mole crickets. 
There could be other problems like iron deficiency or nematodes as well. Here in WI our county ag dept will do free soil samples. You may check into a soil sample.
For the record no balarney here I'm not Irish but I did work at Trugreen for a decade and 2 of those years were in Oldsmar Florida.


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## robert flynt (Nov 5, 2013)

Treecycle Hardwoods said:


> Have you checked the lawn for chinch bugs, mole crickets, and grubs ? Grubs tend to be a bigger problem as you get closer to the sea. Another thing you could look into is potash supplements. FLORIDA soil needs extra potash on a regular basis. The oak tree may be using most of what is there and the grass isn't getting enough.
> 
> St Augustine grass is sun loving BTW. It can be killed by chinch bugs easily and needs a good water supply to do well.
> 
> ...


 It's not a bug problem but your probably right about it being a PH or mineral problem that the trees are causing. Our home extension service will also do free soil samples also. It's such a common problem they probably know what it needs without me sending off the samples. Going to have to do something erosion is starting to expose the tree roots.


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## Cross Sawmill (Nov 6, 2013)

robert flynt said:


> Why doesn't grass grow under oak trees? Was told that it was biological warfare on the oak trees part and that oaks leach a type of acid from its leaves that makes the soil acidic and hard for a lot of other plant to survive under them. Is this so?


 Robert, different people have different ideas. I GUESS it is possible it all went to China and turned into bamboo. Cypress trees also seem to have a "Herbicide" effect.

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## robert flynt (Nov 6, 2013)

Cross Sawmill said:


> Robert, different people have different ideas. I GUESS it is possible it all went to China and turned into bamboo. Cypress trees also seem to have a "Herbicide" effect.


More biological warfare I guess. That why their discovering all kinds of new medacine in the woods these days.


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