# Poison Oak/Ivy



## Mike Jones (Jun 6, 2014)

*BACKGROUND*
Before retirement, I owned and operated a company that performed fire-hazard reduction services up where folks built homes in forested country. I ran crews of young men that cut, pulled, stacked, chipped, and burned brush and small trees. There was simply no way that these men could work a day without coming in contact with poison oak, and there was no way that I could field a full crew without knowing how to deal with it.

*URUSHIOL* * INDUCED CONTACT DERMATITIS*
When you start to itch after contact with poison oak/ivy, that is the name of your malady. Urushiol is a penetrating oil allergen, and when this allergen penetrates through the outer layers of your skin, your body sets out to defend you from the invasion by releasing histamines. It's actually your own histamines that are the cause of your itch.

*PREVENTION*
Soap and water. The crewmen that suffered the worst reaction to urushiol contact learned to wash every couple of hours. Morning break, afternoon break, lunch, and the end of the shift. We used "Fels Naptha" bar laundry soap almost exclusively, although I believe that any soap would work. You will find Fels Naptha at your grocers, and probably with other laundry products. A bar of this soap would last a guy all summer long, but I bought it by the case so that there was a bar with the chainsaw stuff, another in the glove box, another with the First Aide Kit, and one for each of the guys to take home, etc.

Once the urushiol has penetrated that outer layer of your hide, no amount of washing, nor any amount of remedies/lotions will prevent the allergic reaction that starts the histamines that causes the itch. There are many, many, myths, and "old wives tales" and remedies that float around in the woods and campgrounds where people come in contact with the stuff, but after years of experience with my guys, I'll tell you that no Tec-NU, calamine, solvent wash, banana peel rub, or mustard poultice is going to stop that itch, or even help much to get rid of those penetrating oils.

*TO GET YOUR BEAUTY SLEEP*
What I am about to tell you may seem like a cruel joke. Trust me, you can relieve the itching for about 8 hours without any medicine and for just pennies. In the event that you have somehow gotten poison oak that has already penetrated and is causing the irritation, do this: get into the shower and turn the hot tap up until it is almost intolerable and stay turning round and round in there until it becomes a little bit tolerable, then turn the heat up a bit more. Stay in a very hot shower(as hot as you can stand it) for 15-20 minutes. Done!

What happens? The hot water shuts down the body's production of histamines and remember, it's the histamines that cause the itch. This will not "cure" the rash. Your body will just have to deal with it in it's own way...and it will in due time. Tec-Nu and calamine lotions can help with keeping the rash area from oozing, but not much more.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1 | Agree 2 | Great Post 1 | Informative 6 | Useful 4


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## woodtickgreg (Jun 7, 2014)

When I was a kid and lived in California I was so allergic to poison oak that when it bloomed and the pollen was in the air I would get it. I got it so severe that my eyes would swell shut, it usually hospitalized me for a couple of days. Now I have lived in Michigan for 40 years and spent tons of time in the woods, never once had poison ivy, go figure.


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## HomeBody (Jun 8, 2014)

Mike, I have to disagree with you. Tec-Nu will remove poison ivy oil completely and your skin will be back to normal shortly if you get it within a day or two. I've proved this a hundred times. I get exposed to, and remove poison ivy oil at least once a week. I've never let an exposure go to the point of blistering and wet, and I doubt the TecNu would help in that case. I get exposed, forget to wash or don't wash good enough and the next day I can feel the itch starting. Applying TecNu at the point will remove it all. Gary


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## barry richardson (Jun 8, 2014)

That's interesting about the hot shower treatment... that also works for stingray and jellyfish stings you get at the beach, works like a champ, put your stung body part in water as hot as you can stand, and the pain goes away, pull it out and the pain comes right back, so you have to leave it in there a while, till the venom loses it's kick....

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kevin (Jun 8, 2014)

+2 on the fels and the hot water. Living on the coast for most of my early life the first thing you learn for jelly fish is a hot shower. Great info Mike thanks for sharing it. I'd love to sit around a campfire with you I bet your career was interesting and you saw things we can't imagine.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mike Jones (Jun 8, 2014)

HomeBody said:


> Mike, I have to disagree with you. Tec-Nu will remove poison ivy oil completely and your skin will be back to normal shortly if you get it within a day or two. I've proved this a hundred times. I get exposed to, and remove poison ivy oil at least once a week. I've never let an exposure go to the point of blistering and wet, and I doubt the TecNu would help in that case. I get exposed, forget to wash or don't wash good enough and the next day I can feel the itch starting. Applying TecNu at the point will remove it all. Gary



Gary, here's the rub. (pun intended). The variables with this discussion are endless. From plant to plant, season to season, temperatures when exposed, and from human body to human body. I am one of the very lucky ones...I just don't react to the allergen at all. You are one of the lucky ones for whom TecNu works well. My experience with the urushiol problem extends well beyond my own crews as I often worked closely with forestry agencies in 3 different states. Most of these agencies provided TecNu to their people on the ground and this, you would think, would be a firm confirmation of it's value. But it really isn't. From captains of inmate crews, to Hot Shot crews, to Conservation Corpsmen, to loggers and land owners, when asked about TecNu, the response was usually..."it depends".

The older I get, the more inclined I am to pass on to others from my experience and if I would advise to wash early and wash often when working in the woods where poison oak/ivy is present, that would be the best advise that I can offer. If one washes with TecNu or with bar soap, I'd expect the same good results. For many folks, if they wait until the rash breaks out and the itching begins, it will be too late for washing to be of much help.


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## Mike Jones (Jun 8, 2014)

Kevin said:


> I'd love to sit around a campfire with you I bet your career was interesting and you saw things we can't imagine.


Man, wouldn't that be a fun time! And, while it is true that I would have some tales to share, I think that I'd be inclined to ask and listen!


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## DavidDobbs (Jun 8, 2014)

I wash off with Windex when I take a break or the end of the day.

Dave


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## HomeBody (Jun 9, 2014)

Mike Jones said:


> The variables with this discussion are endless.



I got to thinking last night. TecNu isn't very effective where you are. Here, it works 100% of the time, not only with me, but others I know. Then I got to thinking about what Wood Tick Greg said. Growing up in CA, he was in the hospital once a year with poison ivy, even the pollen got him. Then, after moving to MI, no problems. I think it would be reasonable to consider that your CA poison ivy is a much stronger strain than the Midwest variety. Lots of miles and a mtn range between populations. I hate poison ivy, but after reading what you wrote, I'll take the Midwest version any day. Gary


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## sprucegum (Jun 10, 2014)

My grandmother swore by a mild clorox wash. I have crawled through poison ivy many times fishing small streams and rivers , it never affected me. Don't know if I am just lucky or immune to the stuff.
My sons landscape crew is always getting into it I will pass along some of the useful tips. They especially hate sumac.


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## Mike1950 (Jun 10, 2014)

HomeBody said:


> I got to thinking last night. TecNu isn't very effective where you are. Here, it works 100% of the time, not only with me, but others I know. Then I got to thinking about what Wood Tick Greg said. Growing up in CA, he was in the hospital once a year with poison ivy, even the pollen got him. Then, after moving to MI, no problems. I think it would be reasonable to consider that your CA poison ivy is a much stronger strain than the Midwest variety. Lots of miles and a mtn range between populations. I hate poison ivy, but after reading what you wrote, I'll take the Midwest version any day. Gary



We do not have poison ivy here but we have nettles- at least that is what we call them. the ones here are annoying but do not bother me much. I got into them a lot while I was fishing while I was a kid. 
Now the ones out on Vashon Island in the Puget sound-whole different ball game. They look about the same but they are Nasty. I bet you are right different variety.


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## HomeBody (Jun 11, 2014)

Mike1950 said:


> I bet you are right different variety.



I found it. Different species for both oak and ivy, east and west. 
Eastern Poison Ivy: Toxicodendron radicans, Western Poison Ivy: Toxicodendron rydbergii
Atlantic Poison Oak: Toxicodendron pubescens, Pacific Poison Oak: Toxicodendron diversilobum

I had to dig for this info so I doubt if it's commonly known. Gary

Reactions: Informative 1


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## woodtickgreg (Jun 11, 2014)

HomeBody said:


> I found it. Different species for both oak and ivy, east and west.
> Eastern Poison Ivy: Toxicodendron radicans, Western Poison Ivy: Toxicodendron rydbergii
> Atlantic Poison Oak: Toxicodendron pubescens, Pacific Poison Oak: Toxicodendron diversilobum
> 
> I had to dig for this info so I doubt if it's commonly known. Gary


That west coast poison oak is the one that gets me. Highly alergic to it, never had poison ivy. Go figure.


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## David Hill (Jun 13, 2014)

Interesting read on experiences with poison ivy/oak. 
Thought I would share a little since I get to treat a LOT of it.
Note that the ivy/oak is all the same _genus _--so the irritant oil- urushiol is the same regardless of where in the country but apparently in some areas it's worse/stronger, or the plants produce more- that's genetic variation. This is a contact phenomenon and happens on skin or mucous membranes---STAY OUT of the smoke from burning brush/trees-especially if there's vines.
Right about the reaction/histamine response--that's about a 2'ish hr lecture--short form-- for the biochemistry/immunology-- and human's immune systems are genetically diverse- some are exquisitely sensitive (like me) while others are blessed with minimal reaction, however if one is exposed enough times-stimulating their system, they too will get to enjoy the sensation. (It's a complicated combination of genetics and processes in the immune response) 
Your body does NOT destroy the oil(urushiol)--it just tries to block/wash it out, hence the rash/blisters/weeping. Please wash the clothes you got exposed in--the oil is there too.
The hot water treatment should be good for getting the oil off the skin, augment that with soap as soon after exposure as possible. If one was to just soak a hand, limb in a container of hot water--they'll soon have a nice "ring" where the water level was on the arm,leg--the oil will float up to there and can adhere to the skin and start the reaction there (I just "know" this).
Things like calamine, oatmeal preps-Aveeno, burrow's soaks do comfort, and they also remove the oil. 
Careful with preparations containing Benadryl--they work too, but the Benadryl goes through skin and can have some untoward effects as the level builds up--especially in kids and older folks. Covering the rash is a +/-, use porous material-gauze, etc that will take away the fluid (which also contains urushiol). Occlusive dressing will only make things worse.
Do see a Doc like me (or other provider--must be politically correct) for treatment. Steroids when used correctly do help a lot to shut down the vigorous immune response and let you get the offending oil removed.
Also, there's not much real preventative in terms of injections that work or are recommended much anymore. I do recall some, but the one side effect----death---was a bit much to handle.

Reactions: Like 2 | Thank You! 2 | Informative 1


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## Mike Jones (Jun 14, 2014)

I was kind of hoping that one of our medical professionals on this forum would chime in on this discussion, and so,
I thank you, David Hill for your contribution.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 3


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## Molokai (Jun 14, 2014)

barry richardson said:


> That's interesting about the hot shower treatment... that also works for stingray and jellyfish stings you get at the beach, works like a champ, put your stung body part in water as hot as you can stand, and the pain goes away, pull it out and the pain comes right back, so you have to leave it in there a while, till the venom loses it's kick....


Just a little off topic- We also have here some nasty fishes, especially one which we call sea spider, but all have thermo labile poisons. I mean just put hot water on it and it will reduce the swelling. If you step on this little thing it can double the size of your whole arm, leg or what ever. Usually arm because fisherman tend to remove fish from the hook with bare hands. I always use some kind of rag. If stung, you need to put your arm in water hotter than 160 F, better to get burn than this. Also it hurts like hell.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## HomeBody (Jun 16, 2014)

David Hill said:


> The hot water treatment should be good for getting the oil off the skin, augment that with soap as soon after exposure as possible.



Poison ivy exposure + hot water = gasoline + a match. Hot water opens the pores of your skin. You'll end up with the worst case you ever had. Always use cold water to keep your pores closed, especially when you are washing off in the first 15 min. after exposure. *

*The above info is valid for E.Cent.IL poison ivy, the kind I've dealt with for over 40 yrs. Others, YMMV. Gary


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## David Hill (Jun 16, 2014)

Gary--find that to be true--if the rash is there already. The shower is good for _prevention _of the rash.


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