# From the foothills of Bakersfield



## manbuckwal (Nov 1, 2014)

Its hard and fairly heavy . As u can see the termites made a home in the burl , but a dowsing of hornet spray took care of that . Kind of cream colored and red. Any ideas ?

Reactions: EyeCandy! 2


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## barry richardson (Nov 1, 2014)

Some sort of eucalyptus maybe, but maybe not, cause I don't think bugs like it.... or it could be carob, bugs love that stuff, but around here the bark is slicker....


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## manbuckwal (Nov 1, 2014)

barry richardson said:


> Some sort of eucalyptus maybe, but maybe not, cause I don't think bugs like it.... or it could be carob, bugs love that stuff, but around here the bark is slicker....




When i first saw the bark, before cutting into it, I was thinking some kind of pine, but its not sappy, nor does it have any pine scent .


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## Sprung (Nov 1, 2014)

That end grain close up looks like oak to me, but I'm probably wrong.


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## ripjack13 (Nov 1, 2014)

Where's the rest of the tree?


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## Mike1950 (Nov 1, 2014)

Red fir???????????? no needles or leaves??


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## manbuckwal (Nov 1, 2014)

Mike1950 said:


> Red fir???????????? no needles or leaves??



Nope my BIL provided this chunk lol


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## phinds (Nov 1, 2014)

End grain looks exactly like honey locust but I don't know squat about the bark or burl of honey locust, so could be wrong.


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## Kevin (Nov 1, 2014)

The end grain does in fact look exactly like Honeylocust as Pauls says. The bark doesn't, but I never seen HL burl either so maybe the bark looks different on the burl.


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## JR Custom Calls (Nov 1, 2014)

Is that rays in the end grain, or checking? Whatever it is, it's really cool looking


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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Nov 1, 2014)

My vote is also for honey locust. I got a HL tree that was 125+ years old and the bark looked very similar to what you have on the pix.


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## Mike1950 (Nov 1, 2014)

What does it smell like when you cut it........


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## Kevin (Nov 1, 2014)

Tom if that does turn out to be HL I hope to get some. This thread can't establish first refusal unless you decide you want to save me a little piece. 

Only reason I ask is because HL is one of my favorite "normal" species e.g. stuff that isn't exotic/burl etc. but for a domestic species I just love the stuff. It's *SO* underutilized by woodworkers. The only drawback to it is finishing the end grain but it's no worse than oak and probably not quite as bad.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## manbuckwal (Nov 1, 2014)

Mike1950 said:


> What does it smell like when you cut it........



Not like DIW, that's for sure.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## manbuckwal (Nov 1, 2014)

Kevin said:


> Tom if that does turn out to be HL I hope to get some. This thread can't establish first refusal unless you decide you want to save me a little piece.
> 
> Only reason I ask is because HL is one of my favorite "normal" species e.g. stuff that isn't exotic/burl etc. but for a domestic species I just love the stuff. It's *SO* underutilized by woodworkers. The only drawback to it is finishing the end grain but it's no worse than oak and probably not quite as bad.



I don't know if it will turn into honey locust or not, but I'd be happy to send you one of those two wormy pieces if u want it . Its all I have left other than a cpl bottle stopper or pen blanks . I think they're about 3" thick .


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## Kevin (Nov 2, 2014)

I was under the impression you had quite a bit. If it's something Paul doesn't have I'd rather see you gift it to him for his site.


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## manbuckwal (Nov 2, 2014)

Kevin said:


> I was under the impression you had quite a bit. If it's something Paul doesn't have I'd rather see you gift it to him for his site.



Wish I had a lot. I can send him the "core" which has the tree portion and a lil burl with bark for ID if he wants ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## phinds (Nov 2, 2014)

I DO have several samples of honey locust ... in fact I've had them out lately because I am (SLOWly) working on a video about wood fluorescence and HL fluoresces really nicely, but I'm always happy to get donations. Also, I might be able to make a definite ID for you.


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## manbuckwal (Nov 2, 2014)

phinds said:


> I DO have several samples of honey locust ... in fact I've had the out lately because I am (SLOWly) working on a video about wood fluorescence and HL fluoresces really nicely, but I'm always happy to get donations. Also, I might be able to make a definite ID for you.



Paul, PM me your address and I will send you some .


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## phinds (Nov 2, 2014)

manbuckwal said:


> Paul, PM me your address and I will send you some .


Thanks, will do.


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## phinds (Nov 6, 2014)

Tom, I just got the package. A quick look w/ a 10X loupe and I'd put honey locust at about 99%. I'll sand down the end grain a bit just to put it at 100%. There are caveats, though:

The end grain does not distinguish between the unrelated species of black locust (Robina pseudoacacia) and honey locust (Gleditsia triacanthos) so I'm going on color for that distinction, but the color of your piece is just spot on for honey locust and way off for black locust, so that doesn't bother me. What's more of an issue is that the related species water locust (Gleditsia aquatica) can be even harder to distinguish from honey locust because the color can be the same. I only have one sample of water locust so would not bet money that it always has the pore distribution that my one sample has, but that one same has a pore distribution that IS subtly but noticeably different from honey locust. Also, water locust just doesn't seem to show up nearly as often (witness the fact that I have only ever been able to get a single sample). So, while I can't 100% rule out water locust, if you call it honey locust, no one but a wood scientist would ever be able to say you're wrong (and you most likely would not be anyway).

I'll repost w/ pics after I sand it down.

Thanks for the sample.

Paul

Reactions: Informative 2


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## manbuckwal (Nov 6, 2014)

phinds said:


> Tom, I just got the package. A quick look w/ a 10X loupe and I'd put honey locust at about 99%. I'll sand down the end grain a bit just to put it at 100%. There are caveats, though:
> 
> The end grain does not distinguish between the unrelated species of black locust (Robina pseudoacacia) and honey locust (Gleditsia triacanthos) so I'm going on color for that distinction, but the color of your piece is just spot on for honey locust and way off for black locust, so that doesn't bother me. What's more of an issue is that the related species water locust (Gleditsia aquatica) can be even harder to distinguish from honey locust because the color can be the same. I only have one sample of water locust so would not bet money that it always has the pore distribution that my one sample has, but that one same has a pore distribution that IS subtly but noticeably different from honey locust. Also, water locust just doesn't seem to show up nearly as often (witness the fact that I have only ever been able to get a single sample). So, while I can't 100% rule out water locust, if you call it honey locust, no one but a wood scientist would ever be able to say you're wrong (and you most likely would not be anyway).
> 
> ...



Thanks Paul !


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## Kevin (Nov 6, 2014)

phinds said:


> Tom, I just got the package. A quick look w/ a 10X loupe and I'd put honey locust at about 99%. I'll sand down the end grain a bit just to put it at 100%. There are caveats, though:
> 
> The end grain does not distinguish between the unrelated species of black locust (Robina pseudoacacia) and honey locust (Gleditsia triacanthos) so I'm going on color for that distinction, but the color of your piece is just spot on for honey locust and way off for black locust, so that doesn't bother me. What's more of an issue is that the related species water locust (Gleditsia aquatica) can be even harder to distinguish from honey locust because the color can be the same. I only have one sample of water locust so would not bet money that it always has the pore distribution that my one sample has, but that one same has a pore distribution that IS subtly but noticeably different from honey locust. Also, water locust just doesn't seem to show up nearly as often (witness the fact that I have only ever been able to get a single sample). So, while I can't 100% rule out water locust, if you call it honey locust, no one but a wood scientist would ever be able to say you're wrong (and you most likely would not be anyway).
> 
> ...




I didn't know most of that. I would've bet money BL and HL had different cell arrangement and could be distinguished. And I forgot all about water locust.


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## phinds (Nov 6, 2014)

Kevin said:


> I would've bet money BL and HL had different cell arrangement and could be distinguished ...



As I did also until I actually started doing my "end grain update" process and saw that they are identical, as nearly as I can tell w/ a 10X loupe. You can see my results here:

www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/_anatomy/ring%20porous/_ring%20porous.htm

Reactions: Like 1


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## phinds (Nov 6, 2014)

OK, here are some pics:



 
All 3 pieces (I cut down the non-burl pieces a bit)





end grain closeup





end grain blowup (1/4" square) of your piece and some others. I noted that the water locust has a thicker band of earlywood pores than they others but some research has convinced me that that's just my particular sample and is not a reliable way to tell water locust from honey locust.





burl piece end grain closeup




sapwood face grain shot showing the kind of "feathering" that one sees where there are wavy pore bands ("ulmiform" bands) in the latewood, as there are in locust and even more notably in elm.

Reactions: Like 1


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## phinds (Nov 6, 2014)

Oh, yeah ... and they fluoresce (would have been a hell of a shock if they hadn't)

Reactions: Way Cool 3


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## Kevin (Nov 6, 2014)

Excellent work Paul. And I mean excellent. I do however believe there's a way to differentiate between them based on those photos which, are singular as you point out so that makes it circumspect. HL and WL are very similar obviously, but if those are fair representations of the species they are discernible. And certainly the BL is way different.


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## manbuckwal (Nov 6, 2014)

So Honey Locust it is . That's very cool seeing all the pores .


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## phinds (Nov 6, 2014)

Kevin said:


> Excellent work Paul. And I mean excellent. I do however believe there's a way to differentiate between them based on those photos which, are singular as you point out so that makes it circumspect. HL and WL are very similar obviously, but if those are fair representations of the species they are discernible. And certainly the BL is way different.


I'm pretty convinced that one sample just isn't enough to make much of a judgment. I you look at all the end grain pics of locust on my site (not just the anatomy article page) I think you'll agree. What do you think are the significant difference?


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