# No luck IDing so far



## BrianVW (Mar 3, 2018)

This was included with a truckload of hardwood I bought off a guy, haven’t had any luck identifying. It is fairly heavy and the board is about 5” wide by 1/2” thick. Wondering if it’s possibly a grass looking at the end grain.


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## Tony (Mar 3, 2018)

The first one looks like a board I got awhile back called Camaru but I'm no ID expert. Tony


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## Schroedc (Mar 3, 2018)

Cumaru maybe? Checkout Paul's web site for closer up photos to compare to.


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## phinds (Mar 3, 2018)

Face grain and color make it a dead ringer for kempas but the end grain appears to lack the aliform parenchyma that is typical of kempas.

End grain looks more like cumaru so dispite the color I lean towards cumaru. 

@BrianVW, as Colin suggested, you need to compare it to the cumaru and maybe kempas pages on my site.


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## DKMD (Mar 4, 2018)

I thought panga panga when looking at the facegrain and color, but the endgrain doesn’t look like the stuff on Paul’s site.


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## phinds (Mar 4, 2018)

DKMD said:


> I thought panga panga when looking at the facegrain and color, but the endgrain doesn’t look like the stuff on Paul’s site.


You're right. No way this is panga panga, which has a pretty distinctive end grain (unless you're comparing it to wenge)


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## BrianVW (Mar 7, 2018)

Thanks for all input. I went to Paul's site (I think) and I noticed one called ANGELIM PEDRA that looked similar. Thoughts?


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## phinds (Mar 7, 2018)

BrianVW said:


> Thanks for all input. I went to Paul's site (I think) and I noticed one called ANGELIM PEDRA that looked similar. Thoughts?


No, angelim pedra has very clear and plentiful confluent parenchyma in the end grain and your wood has virtually none


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## BrianVW (Mar 7, 2018)

Red palm?


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## phinds (Mar 7, 2018)

BrianVW said:


> Red palm?


No chance. It's clear from the end grain that this is not a grass. (Face grain looks a lot like one though so not a bad guess)


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## Karl_TN (Mar 7, 2018)

Could this wood be Brazilian Brownheart (aka Vouacapoua Americana) by chance?

https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/28/5897/Turners-Choice-Brazilian-Brownheart-Turning-Blank

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## phinds (Mar 7, 2018)

Karl_TN said:


> Could this wood be Brazilian Brownheart (aka Vouacapoua Americana) by chance?
> 
> https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/28/5897/Turners-Choice-Brazilian-Brownheart-Turning-Blank


Good call. I don't have any but I checked the end grain on Inside Wood and it is completely consistent with this mystery wood so Vouacapoua americana (the specific epithet should not be capitalized) is a definite possibility.


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## phinds (Mar 7, 2018)

BrianVW said:


> Thanks for all input. I went to Paul's site (I think) and I noticed one called ANGELIM PEDRA that looked similar. Thoughts?


So, DID you compare it to cumaru on my site as I suggested in post #4?


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## BrianVW (Mar 19, 2018)

phinds said:


> So, DID you compare it to cumaru on my site as I suggested in post #4?


I did, thanks. The end grain certainly looked similar but the face seemed to be slightly different.


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## BrianVW (Mar 19, 2018)

phinds said:


> Good call. I don't have any but I checked the end grain on Inside Wood and it is completely consistent with this mystery wood so Vouacapoua americana (the specific epithet should not be capitalized) is a definite possibility.


That certainly is very similar.


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## BrianVW (Mar 19, 2018)

Out of curiosity, I sent a sample off for testing. If anyone's interested, I'll post the results once I get them.


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## DKMD (Mar 19, 2018)

BrianVW said:


> Out of curiosity, I sent a sample off for testing. If anyone's interested, I'll post the results once I get them.



Please do... I love learning about wood ID!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## phinds (Mar 19, 2018)

DKMD said:


> Please do... I love learning about wood ID!


+1 on that


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## BrianVW (May 17, 2018)

I finally got a response back on what this wood is after sending it off for testing. It is Vatairea sp, which appears to be a tropical wood out of Brazil. Looks like it might also be called Angelim Saia. Mystery solved!


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## phinds (May 17, 2018)

The Inside Wood end grain pics for Vatairea spp. (NOT "sp.") are consistent with your wood. Where did you get the ID done? The USDA?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BrianVW (May 17, 2018)

Yes USDA. Educate me please - I read that sp. stands for a single species and spp. stands for multiple species. Is that how it is used here?


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## phinds (May 17, 2018)

BrianVW said:


> Yes USDA. Educate me please - I read that sp. stands for a single species and spp. stands for multiple species. Is that how it is used here?


You WILL see that use in various places but as far as I'm aware, it's not correct. If you want to refer generically to a wood that is known to be a rosewood, for example, but you don't know WHICH rosewood you would say it is Dalbergia spp.

@Mr. Peet did you mention something about this to me at some point?


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## Mr. Peet (May 17, 2018)

phinds said:


> You WILL see that use in various places but as far as I'm aware, it's not correct. If you want to refer generically to a wood that is known to be a rosewood, for example, but you don't know WHICH rosewood you would say it is Dalbergia spp.
> 
> @Mr. Peet did you mention something about this to me at some point?



Yes, spp. is for multiple. If you are comparing two (or more) from different genra, you might use the 'sp.' since it was already defined.

As for the wood, I had said it looked like a 'Sucupira', but would need to look into it further, which I had not done so. Glad to see you had an ID. Who was the technician on the ID paper? And I lack that in my collection and would like to buy some....


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## phinds (May 17, 2018)

Mr. Peet said:


> Yes, spp. is for multiple. If you are comparing two (or more) from different genra, you might use the 'sp.' since it was already defined.


Can you give a specific example of when it would be correct to use that? I'm still not getting it.


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## Mr. Peet (May 18, 2018)

phinds said:


> Can you give a specific example of when it would be correct to use that? I'm still not getting it.



If you were writing an article on how to differentiate between 'Honey locust', _Gleditsia triacanthos_ and 'Kentucky coffee tree', _Gymnocladus dioicus_, once you have defined the species you are discussing, you can simply use _Gymnocladus_ sp. as a substitute for the whole name throughout the rest of the writing if you choose. If you use _Gymnocladus_ spp. it refers to a grouping of multiples in the genus, implying it could be one of the 5 accepted species within the genus 'Gymnocladus'.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Blueglass (May 18, 2018)

I worked with Brownheart that looked just like that. I'm sure it goes by other names.


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## phinds (May 18, 2018)

Mr. Peet said:


> If you were writing an article on how to differentiate between 'Honey locust', _Gleditsia triacanthos_ and 'Kentucky coffee tree', _Gymnocladus dioicus_, once you have defined the speies you are discussing, you can simply use _Gymnocladus_ sp. as a substitute for the whole name throughout the rest of the writing if you choose. If you use _Gymnocladus_ spp. it refers to a grouping of multiples in the genus, implying it could be one of the 5 accepted species within the genus 'Gymnocladus'.


OK. thanks. Sounds weird to me but I believe you.


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## BrianVW (May 18, 2018)

Thanks for all the replies. The technician at USDA was ALEX C. WIEDENHOEFT, PH.D.


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## Mr. Peet (May 18, 2018)

Blueglass said:


> I worked with Brownheart that looked just like that. I'm sure it goes by other names.



Brownheart = _Vouacapoua americana_



 From The Wood Database site

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rich P. (May 18, 2018)

You guys are great. I find this sectional and threads the most interesting and educational on the site. The rest of the website is great reading and you can lose a day playing around in here but there is just something about wood ID.


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## phinds (May 18, 2018)

_Vouacapoua americana _is not on my site but I have pics of two different samples and they are a very good match for this wood. Here's an end grain shot and an end grain closeup of one of them.

Reactions: Way Cool 1


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## phinds (May 18, 2018)

Rich P. said:


> You guys are great. I find this sectional and threads the most interesting and educational on the site. The rest of the website is great reading and you can lose a day playing around in here but there is just something about wood ID.


If you're interested in wood ID, check out the stickies at the top of this forum.


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## Blueglass (May 19, 2018)

Rich P. said:


> You guys are great. I find this sectional and threads the most interesting and educational on the site. The rest of the website is great reading and you can lose a day playing around in here but there is just something about wood ID.


If you think you can get lost here follow the wood ID link to Paul's Hobbit house site and you will lose all track of time, I know I have.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mr. Peet (May 19, 2018)

http://lesserknowntimberspecies.com/species/item/28

http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/search?q=Vatairea+

http://brasiltropicalpisos.com/serrada-em-bruto/?lang=en

The first site is good to learn more about your wood. The second site is to show that there are under a dozen species in the genus Vatairea. The third site is simply more information on Brazilian woods, much repeated but it has another picture of your wood. I would trust the UDSA determination.

Vatairea and Vouacapoua genera are both in the Fabaceae family. I did not look to see how close they are genetically.


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