# Pink Ivory and mystery wood (???)



## Gonzalodqa (Apr 23, 2021)

Ok in another thread a couple of months ago I discussed the color change of pink ivory and I showed my sample and many people said that it looked very brown. 
Well now I managed to get a new sample to compare and they do look a lot different although I do remember my original sample was pink back in the day.... not sure if it was this pink. Well end grain (pink ivory needs more work) looks quite similar I was thinking maybe my sample was actually B. discolor but I would have to get a sample to compare. 
Any Guesses or suggestions?

On the right, you can see my sample, and on the left the new sample 

First is end grain picture is my original sample and second the new sample

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## barry richardson (Apr 23, 2021)

Have you compared them under blacklite?


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## Gonzalodqa (Apr 23, 2021)

barry richardson said:


> Have you compared them under blacklite?


I saw the post about that. I might try that. I just have to get a black light


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## barry richardson (Apr 23, 2021)

A member sent me some samples of verified pink Ivory, it fluoresces much more that the mystery wood I had ...

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## Gonzalodqa (Apr 23, 2021)

I will have to try it


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## phinds (Apr 25, 2021)

All I can add is that the color doesn't look quite like pink ivory but doesn't rule it out, and the end grain seems more or less consistent with pink ivory although a bit hard to tell with the lack of full detail. Maybe you can check it against my site if you have a 10X loupe. Also, I corrected your title from "mistery" to "mystery" so it looks normal.

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## Arn213 (Apr 25, 2021)

I remember @Mr. Peet response posting on Barry’s thread on the mystery wood that @Gonzalodqa sample is “brown ivory” (berchemia discolor). It is characterized with “red-brown with pink tinge”. The hue to the right is what I have seen more off and the 16/4 curly stock I have- it is red ivory/pink ivory (berchemia zeyheri).

You should put the older sample away in a drawer away from natural light and leave the new red pink ivory out to see what happens to the color after 6 months, 12 months, 18 months and 24 months- photographing it would be good at the same location and the same time of the day.

Are they raw without a finish or do they have a finish? If they have a finish, what did you use?

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## Gonzalodqa (Apr 25, 2021)

the old sample has shellac (3 coats) the new samples is unfinished. I am planing to get a B. discolor and compare them. I have to talk to my friend at NEHOSOC to see if they have any sample left. 
I will post more about it as it develops.
PS: the picture idea is great I will follow it to see if something changes

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## Arn213 (Apr 25, 2021)

Gonzalodqa said:


> the old sample has shellac (3 coats) the new samples is unfinished. I am planing to get a B. discolor and compare them. I have to talk to my friend at NEHOSOC to see if they have any sample left.
> I will post more about it as it develops.
> PS: the picture idea is great I will follow it to see if something changes



Clear shellac versus amber shellac based on what you use will transform the hue of the subject. Basic color theory of mixing yellow with pink = peach to orange. Any finish with a yellow tint or aged tint will result to a color change of the original hue. If you use nitrocellulose lacquer, the lacquer will yellow over time and will change the original hue and will become warmer. Let’s take curly maple as example- it has a base color hue of yellow (really pale version). You see this effect on guitars when they use a blue dye on the maple, then they spray clear. At the end of it depending on the concentration of the blue dye use (some use it straight and some dilute it with water, alcohol, etc.)- it will not be purely blue and you will get a cast of blue-green and over the time as it ages, the blue-green will be more apparent.

I mix shellac and denatured alcohol so I can get better flow and to keep the color as new as possible- that has been my luck with the red pink ivory that I have.

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## Gonzalodqa (Apr 25, 2021)

I also use clear shellac basically because I do want to preserve my samples color. 
I will follow how this new sample reacts to finish, although I don’t think I will be able to finish it until in a couple of weeks


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## Gonzalodqa (May 15, 2021)

Update: 
I got a sample of B. discolor. I haven’t sand it or process it in anyway yet but the difference in appearance, although that is quite variable, is noticeable. 
middle one still a mystery

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## phinds (May 15, 2021)

B. discolor. WHICH "B" ? An what does it have to do with pink ivory?


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## Gonzalodqa (May 15, 2021)

phinds said:


> B. discolor. WHICH "B" ? An what does it have to do with pink ivory?


Berchemia discolor, other species in the pink ivory genus

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## phinds (May 15, 2021)

Gonzalodqa said:


> Berchemia discolor, other species in the pink ivory genus


Thanks. Berchemia discolor is not one I'm familiar w/. Any idea what color it normally is?


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## Gonzalodqa (May 15, 2021)

The common name is brown ivory and according to NEHOSOC “The sapwood is yellow to straw-colored, the heartwood is yellow-brown to dark red-brown” 
The sample on the right of the picture I got from them. I got it to compare it with the mystery specimen in the middle. I still have to sand it before I stay doing the comparison but so far the end grain looks similar to pink ivory


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## phinds (May 15, 2021)

Gonzalodqa said:


> The common name is brown ivory and according to NEHOSOC “The sapwood is yellow to straw-colored, the heartwood is yellow-brown to dark red-brown”
> The sample on the right of the picture I got from them. I got it to compare it with the mystery specimen in the middle. I still have to sand it before I stay doing the comparison but so far the end grain looks similar to pink ivory


I'll be interested in seeing all the end grains

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## Gonzalodqa (May 16, 2021)

Update: 
Pictures of end grain 

1- B. discolor 
2- B. zeyheri
3- mystery wood 

the mystery wood looks similar to pink ivory (and it was sold as such) maybe it is?


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## Arn213 (May 16, 2021)

Why is there such a fascination with this species that this subject matter has been “beaten to death” in so many threads? My feedback is based on your post #11 of the upright photo’s and not based on the end grain pics. The middle one is pink ivory- it is not the “red” pink ivory because if it was, the color will be deep like ripe watermelon. Also, I don’t know where you get your samples like the pink ivory to the left- why are they so pale? I’ve processed so much of it and even in the raw, it shouldn’t look washed out. The 3rd sample on the right I highly doubt that is “brown ivory/berchemia discolor”. It has no color relationship within the pink hue from shade to tint typical of pink ivory. The color of that 3rd piece should be close to the middle one, but shifting towards slightly with a brownish tinge.

If you really want that rich, vibrant and deeper pink ivory, you have to find “red pink ivory”. That is 90% of what I have in my library because it is usually deep and richer in color, more on the “shade” of it’s hue (not a tint), that by experience retains the color better compare to the salmon or salmon with pinkish tinge, pink ivory.

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## phinds (May 16, 2021)

Yep, the end grain of that first one is a good match in the end grain to Berchemia discolor according to the NCSU site.

The third one has an end grain similar to pink ivory but has a noticeable lack of clear growth ring boundaries, and of course the color is unlikely although not impossible.

Good pics by the way.


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## Arn213 (May 16, 2021)

phinds said:


> Yep, the end grain of that first one is a good match in the end grain to Berchemia discolor according to the NCSU site.
> 
> The third one has an end grain similar to pink ivory but has a noticeable lack of clear growth ring boundaries, and of course the color is unlikely although not impossible.
> 
> Good pics by the way.


The photo’s are good, but for comparison sakes, the 3rd one should not be rotated and should be taken the same 180 degree orientation as the first and second end grain. The first one and second one has presence of direct sunlight, the 3rd one should have been taken the same manner and would have “heighten the details of the end grain”.


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## Mr. Peet (May 16, 2021)

phinds said:


> Yep, the end grain of that first one is a good match in the end grain to Berchemia discolor according to the NCSU site.
> 
> The third one has an end grain similar to pink ivory but has a noticeable lack of clear growth ring boundaries, and of course the color is unlikely although not impossible.
> 
> Good pics by the way.


Take a look at page 92 in the _Southern African Wood _book you have.


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## Gonzalodqa (May 16, 2021)

The pink ivory is not as pale I think it might be a lighting problem. 
I was wondering if the middle one was actually B. discolor (the sample was forward to me by a friend at NEHOSOC)
Sorry about the orientation and quality of the pictures but it’s the best I can do from home.


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## Gonzalodqa (May 16, 2021)

Maybe under natural light the color can be better appreciated 
Brown ivory top and Pink ivory bottom


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## Arn213 (May 16, 2021)

Now, that move you made under different lighting conditions tells a different story- the top to me now it looks and leans toward more to the brown ivory spectrum, but imho, something about it still don’t quite look right. It shouldn’t have surface open pore structures like that and have a high silica content, even though it is dense- that is usually never present.

In the future it will help if you keep the setting conditions the same throughout when comparing species when photographing- “like apples to apples”.


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## phinds (May 16, 2021)

Mr. Peet said:


> Take a look at page 92 in the _Southern African Wood _book you have.


Excellent, Mark. Thanks. That shows a rock solid match in both color and anatomical characteristics to the end grain pic of what @Gonzalodqa correctly believes correctly to be Berchemia discolor. Never occurred to me to check that book. I DO refer to it occasionally but not this time.

Gonzalo, your face grain pic directly above is not as good a match but not unreasonable.

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## Arn213 (May 16, 2021)

Brown Ivory — Dalmann UK







www.dalmannuk.com


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## Gonzalodqa (May 16, 2021)

Thank you all. 
I have never had a brown ivory sample but I do trust NEHOSOC. If there is any doubt about the sample they normally mentioned it.
They also have the species description with a picture, which does look redder but accordingly to literature encountering darker brown wood is not unlikely.


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## phinds (May 16, 2021)

Here's a pic of part of the page from the book Mark referenced. I would have gotten a better image of the page by scanning it but that would have required breaking the spine of the book which I am not willing to do. The legend along the bottom is "side grain untreated, side grain treated, end grain. The end grain is consistent w/ the NCSU site I referenced and with your wood. I note that the color is definitely more red here than your face grain shot, as Arn has pointed out.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


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