# More Citizenry Disarmament By The Gestapo . . .



## Kevin (Feb 15, 2015)

The ATF is waving its nefarious _'ban wand'_ again to further their tactical advantage against the collective citizen militia. As a basic reminder to some of you, the 2A was not intended to guarantee your right to hunt and for self defense; those were taken literally for granted and didn't even need to be discussed. The clear purpose was so that the general populace would always remain more powerful than the central and state governments so that tyranny could never get a foothold within the several states.

For those of you that have AR platforms, like me, you probably have thousands of rounds of Federal Lake City XM855 NATO ball ammo a.k.a '_green tips'_. The same stuff our troops use abroad. If you don't have any, you probably never gonna get any now because the ATF is going to ban it using their 1968 armor piercing law. That law exempted armor-piercing rounds for rifles. But now that so many manufacturers have been making handguns based on the .223/5.56 cartridge they are seizing their chance to further their tactical advantage over the citizenry and ban the green tips by using more of THEIR laws against us.

Although the green tips are primarily thought of as body armor/flak jacket penetrators, many do use the round for hunting too which IMO is ridiculous given that there's so many other great hunting rounds, but I digress. One thing is certain - I doubt any of those hunters will be using it from here out - they'll be hanging on to it like the gold it will become. You already can't find the stuff for sale anywhere so if you're like me and had the foresight to stockpile a lot of it years ago, good on you. If you didn't, you missed the boat.

The ATF is "accepting comments" via email about the proposed ban if you would like to sound off. Yeah, right. I'm going to send them an email and ask to be put on yet another "list ". I'll do what I have always done when they wave that _'ban wand' _and just quietly sit and watch and wait, and hope I don't live long enough to see this whole thing come crashing down.

Got any 5.56mm x 45mm XM855 green tips? Save 'em. And hope the ATF never gets to the point where they just do not ban them, but also requires you to turn them in. That's when it will really hit the fan. Want to know what the real funny part is? There's many ways to skin a cat - there's plenty of other ways to defeat body armor and not having any XM/M855 is really not a big deal, I just hate it when "our" government tells us we have to give up another right especially when it's dealing with firearms - something that should be inviolable.

I KNOW what you're thinking but . . . .

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Great Post 1


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## Schroedc (Feb 15, 2015)

One of the reasons I've held on to several cans of WWII .30-06 with the black tips in Garand clips even though I know I could have gotten really good money for them......

Reactions: Agree 1 | Way Cool 1


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## Kevin (Feb 15, 2015)

I don't have any of that ammo man I wish I had bought some. I have plenty 30 ought but no black tips. I never did buy a Garand via the gov program either something I still kick myself for today. They are outrageous now.


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## Schroedc (Feb 15, 2015)

Kevin said:


> I don't have any of that ammo man I wish I had bought some. I have plenty 30 ought but no black tips. I never did buy a Garand via the gov program either something I still kick myself for today. They are outrageous now.



This stuff is all 1942 and 1943 from the Twin Cities munitions plant according to the head stamps. I'd like to find a better Garand than the ones I have, Either that or one of these days I'll have a new barrel put on one or both of them.


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## Kevin (Feb 15, 2015)

Go ahead. Rub it in.


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## Mike1950 (Feb 15, 2015)

Seems like the right place for this...........

.Please read and decide what to do for yourself ...


...PROPOSAL:

Think clearly about this, if Our lawmakers view themselves as ELITE as they have proven with their separate medical and retirement programs, then why not other programs? This is what Mark Levin has been talking about--a Constitutional convention by the States to get back to the laws of the Constitution. This will take less than thirty seconds to read. If you agree, nothing to sign; just pass it on. This is an idea that we should address.35 STATES SO FAR.....IT'S GROWING!

One message to forward!Governors of 35 states have filed suit against the Federal Government for imposing unlawful burdens upon them. It only takes 38 (of the 50) States to convene a Constitutional
Convention. For too long we have been too complacent about the
workings of Congress. Their latest stunt is to exempt themselves in all of its forms from the Healthcare Reform that they passed. Somehow, that doesn't seem logical. We do not have an elite ruling class that is above the law. I don't care if they are Democrat, Republican,
Independent or whatever. The self-serving must stop. If each person
that receives this will forward it on to 15 people, in three days, most people in The United States of America will have the message.
This is one proposal that really should be passed around.Proposed 28th Amendment to the United States Constitution: "Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators, President of the United States, their employees, Representatives of Congress; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and/or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States."...


You are one of my 15. Please keep this going!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kevin (Feb 15, 2015)

I have been aware of Levin's con con proposal since he first started talking about wrtiting another book several years ago. I don't have the book - think it was released last year so I can't comment on his specific vision of how a con con should proceed. I don't fuly trust Mark because he's a vociferous ISRAEL CAN DO NO WRONG AND LET'S KILL ALL MUSLIMS whether he admits it or not. But the thought of a con con scare me quite a bit more than his partially veiled ultra Zionism.

During a constitutional convention, there are NO LIMITS . . . anything goes. And while almost anything goes right now, rest assured that if "we" actually got "them" (those who supposed to represent us) to pass a con con, who do you think "they" are going to represent while they hammer out a "new form of government"? We the people, or those who would stop at nothing to whether by money or threat of death to come out with something that favors the elite?

I guess it's a moot point because I don't think a con con has a snowball's chance in hell of getting passed.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## LoneStar (Feb 16, 2015)

Don't forget orange tip xm856. Same round with phosphorous tracer.
I have always understood these rounds were designed for "hardened targets" like masonry and car doors as opposed to actual armor piercing capability. 
I've never shot any steel to test that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kevin (Feb 17, 2015)

LoneStar said:


> I've never shot any steel to test that.



I know the green tips plow right through 1/2" I-beam like butter at 75'. I can show the I-beam. :-)

Reactions: Like 2


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## ripjack13 (Feb 24, 2015)

*Cheaper Than Dirt M855 Source:*

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## brown down (Mar 2, 2015)

pretty much sums up how I feel!! any of my rifles will penetrate body armor that are only designed for pistols!!!!! they are just grasping onto anything for a ban but at the end of the day I really doubt this will get pushed through but we do have a pretty sneaky gov!! 
his sarcasm in a lot of his videos is second to none IMO


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## Kevin (Mar 2, 2015)

Good video which I obviously agree with 100%. In fact, I don't think he said a single thing I haven't already. But I'm not sure I agree with your assessment Jeff that the ban won't go through. I think it has a better chancce of going through than mot. After all, why would they not do it? Because they know damn well they'll be no consequences from us. They know that.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Alan Sweet (Mar 2, 2015)

Even in Texas, the Gestapo intimidate those who disagree with them.

http://www.wnd.com/2015/03/feds-raid-texas-political-meeting/#PokDUHViu5JGcJBM.99


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## Kevin (Mar 2, 2015)

Alan Sweet said:


> Even in Texas, the Gestapo intimidate those who even disagree with them.
> 
> http://www.wnd.com/2015/03/feds-raid-texas-political-meeting/#PokDUHViu5JGcJBM.99



ESPECIALLY in Texas. We're probably the biggest threat to a complete federal takeover. Those guys are kooks. You probably don't know the history of the movement, but at one time it was a legitimate political movement among a large and growing percentage of a broad spectrum of Texans, and it was gaining ground fast enough that it had to be stopped - by those that were threatened by it. And how does the government destroy any legitimate populist movement? They infiltrate it disguised as supporters and figuratively start tossing hand grenades everywhere for public consumption.

When that happens, the common-sense, rational thinking members that were working within the laws of the system jump ship, the fed infiltrator/s (or their paid cronies if it wasn't actual agents) leave as well and move on the next assignment. That's exactly what happened with our succession attempt. Once the momentum is lost and given an irreparable black eye, what's left of the movement is quickly taken over by the dregs who have no longer have a clear mandate because they have zero support. So it crumbles into a small group of crazies that think they can take over the world or at least want to.

Nothing could make the feds happier. I've said here on this forum many times if you go messing with the bankers/currency that will get you shot/arrested/ tarred and feathered faster than anything. The fact that they were brazen and foolish enough to summons a judge too . . . well that just proves what I said above is true . . . the movement is being run by idiots.


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## brown down (Mar 2, 2015)

I guess its willful thinking. there have been a lot of politicians who are apposing this! I find this administrations arrogance to be above anything I have witnessed! we have representatives for a reason this admin is acting like dictatorship via executive orders. hasn't this admin used the most executive orders than any in the past! guess I better stock back up on reloading supplies! I get a kick out of their logic.. a 30 round magazine is more deadly than a 10 round magazine or a simple attachment makes it more lethal.. thats twisted logic at its finest!


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## Kevin (Mar 2, 2015)

brown down said:


> this admin is acting like dictatorship via executive orders.



They all have. Donkey and elephant blue and red makes no difference they all get their orders from the same place - at least on the most important matters. They're allowed to 'play politics' to keep us continually divided . . . and constantly conquered, that's what they get paid for not representing us but repressing us. I use to get worked up about it but now I just laugh at it from afar. Sorry of that seems lazy or unpatriotic but IMO the republic has been gone since Lincoln and friends sold us ALL down the river (both sides) and there's defenitely no political solution for us especially now with electronic "voting" LMAO.

So I just tend to my own little garden and laugh at all the BS they feed us and try to live out my life with my family and friends. Am I prepared for a sudden SHTF? I have been preparing for years as best I can but I sure don't lose sleep over it.

JMO


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## Fsyxxx (Mar 2, 2015)

Kevin said:


> ESPECIALLY in Texas. We're probably the biggest threat to a complete federal takeover. Those guys are kooks. You probably don't know the history of the movement, but at one time it was a legitimate political movement among a large and growing percentage of a broad spectrum of Texans, and it was gaining ground fast enough that it had to be stopped - by those that were threatened by it. And how does the government destroy any legitimate populist movement? They infiltrate it disguised as supporters and figuratively start tossing hand grenades everywhere for public consumption.
> 
> When that happens, the common-sense, rational thinking members that were working within the laws of the system jump ship, the fed infiltrator/s (or their paid cronies if it wasn't actual agents) leave as well and move on the next assignment. That's exactly what happened with our succession attempt. Once the momentum is lost and given an irreparable black eye, what's left of the movement is quickly taken over by the dregs who have no longer have a clear mandate because they have zero support. So it crumbles into a small group of crazies that think they can take over the world or at least want to.
> 
> Nothing could make the feds happier. I've said here on this forum many times if you go messing with the bankers/currency that will get you shot/arrested/ tarred and feathered faster than anything. The fact that they were brazen and foolish enough to summons a judge too . . . well that just proves what I said above is true . . . the movement is being run by idiots.




Your exactly right about this, I was involved with this many many years ago. Our group had some guys who really understood the laws and courts. It was a great learning experience. Then,all of the sudden, the crazies started showing up. Guys who wanted to make everyone their version of Christian or on the other end a sicko that thought age of consent was unconstitutional. He almost didn't walk out of there. In restrospect, I have a feeling that a lot of those 'crazies' were Feds. Next thing you know raids are happening to people involved in leadership positions. Guys I know that were clean as the day is long houses raided, drugs found. It got scary. I was young then and was just starting to figure out how screwed we have become but a lot of us looked over our shoulders for awhile.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Andrew M (Mar 4, 2015)

Run across some xm855 rounds today for 65 cents a round, which is probably outrageously high. I went ahead and picked up a couple hundered rounds just incase I never see it again.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kevin (Mar 5, 2015)

Don't know if anyone wants to pay 70 cents a round but if you want to LG has it in stock.

http://www.luckygunner.com/250-rounds-loose-packed-of-5-56x45-ammo-by-lake-city-62gr-fmj-xm855

Not trying to boast but I doubt I ever paid more than half that. 

70 cents might be cheap though depending on if the "law" passes.


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## ripjack13 (Mar 8, 2015)

Whoopsie..., Guys it was all a publishing error and we're sorry for the confusion. Right.

I wonder how all those folks who paid big money for this ammo will feel when they get the news. Reckon they'll be pissed? :D

Link: https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Library/Publications/notice_of_publishing_error.pdf



> NOTICE OF PUBLISHING ERROR
> On Feb. 13, 2015, ATF released for public comment a proposed framework to guide its determination on what ammunition is "primarily intended for sporting purposes" for purposes of granting exemptions to the Gun Control Act’s prohibition on armor piecing ammunition. The posted framework is only a proposal, posted for the purpose of receiving public comment, and no final determinations have been made.
> Media reports have noted that the 2014 ATF Regulation Guide published online does not contain a listing of the exemptions for armor piercing ammunition, and conclude that the absence of this listing indicates these exemptions have been rescinded. This is not the case.
> Please be advised that ATF has not rescinded any armor piercing ammunition exemption, and the fact they are not listed in the 2014 online edition of the regulations was an error which has no legal impact on the validity of the exemptions. The existing exemptions for armor piercing ammunition, which apply to 5.56 mm (.223) SS 109 and M855 projectiles (identified by a green coating on the projectile tip), and the U.S .30-06 M2AP projectile (identified by a black coating on the projectile tip), remain in effect.
> ...



I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that not a single news outlet has reported on this either; not Drudge, Breitbart, Fox, CNN, nobody....

when there is an exemption and suddenly there isn't, someone omitted the damn thing intentionally. Stuff doesn't just disappear on its' own. Someone physically removed it.


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## ripjack13 (Mar 8, 2015)

Makes one wonder how much else has been changed that no one has caught that will now be the rule. These people cannot be trusted with anything....


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## Kevin (Mar 8, 2015)

ripjack13 said:


> I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that not a single news outlet has reported on this either; not Drudge



I'm pretty sure I saw it on the front page on Drudge Friday.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Schroedc (Mar 10, 2015)

Interesting.... I just saw a bunch of news stories that the ATF and Administration has decided to hold off on banning these......


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## Kevin (Mar 10, 2015)

I Heard yesterday same thing. Still a good lesson for those that don't think ahead ... Buy stuff when it's available!

Reactions: Agree 2


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