# Chainsaw fuel



## woodtickgreg (Nov 7, 2016)

I am posting this in the classroom because I think it will reach more people and I feel that it is very important. today's gasoline is pure garbage and totally destroys power equipment like lawn mowers, weed whips, gas blowers, chainsaws etc, basically any small engine. the problem is the ethanol in the fuel and the oxygenate that are added to it. it's ok for cars, but not for machines with rubber diaphragm alluminum carburators, or rubber fuel lines gaskets and o rings. It just eats them up! And the ethanol will literally pull moisture out of the air and now your fuel has water in it which will accelerate the alluminum and brass carburator corrosion process. So if you are using pump gas, even with startron or sea foam or some other additive to try and counteract the effects of today's crappy fuel, it's not a matter of if but when will you replace the carburetor. that can be very expensive, $50 to $100+ for the carb plus gaskets and the labor to do it if your not good with small engine repair. I work in the power equipment biz and have for over 40 years off and on, I have been watching this and learning from it. So what's the answer?



It's this, pre mixed 2 stroke fuel that is not even gasoline! It has no ethanol, is 93 octane, and has a 2 year shelf live!
What is it? As far as I can tell it is pure white gas ( remember Coleman camp fuel for stoves and lanterns ) very volatile. 
Gasoline starts to go bad after 30 days. I have been using this stuff all summer long in my own equipment. I choose the echo brand because their new red armor oil is far superior to anything on the market for air cooled 2 cycle power equipment. this fuel is offered by all the major manufacturers and some of them will extend the warranty a couple of years if you use it in their products that says a lot! it is also available in 4 stroke fuel. the only downside to it is the in tial cost but the money saved on repairs recoup that and I like to know that when I go to use my tools they will start and work! Cost? about 7 dollors a quart for the echo 2 cycle. But my equipment has never run better! I recently ran 2 chainsaws all day harvesting a large walnut tree, I only used one quart of fuel. I can put my saw on the shelf and if I don't run them until spring time they will be fine and start right up. cost is coming down on this stuff as demand increases, other brands may be cheaper (but I swear by echo red armor oil) and it is also available in gallons and 5 gallon cans. I personally will never spend my money on any other oil, fuel additives, or crappy gasoline again! this is the only fuel I will now use in my equipment.

Reactions: Like 6 | Thank You! 1 | Great Post 1 | Informative 3


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## barry richardson (Nov 7, 2016)

Awesome, I'm getting some, I use my chainsaw sporadically, so sometimes it sits for a long time with gas in it, this looks like the solution, just gotta find a retailer...


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## woodtickgreg (Nov 7, 2016)

@barry richardson , any power equipment shop should have it, home depot even carries the echo fuel I believe.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Schroedc (Nov 7, 2016)

@woodtickgreg - Not to derail your thread and I will be getting some of this stuff for my saws but what about the 91 octane non-oxygenated/no alcohol gas available for classic cars and recreational equipment and whatnot? We have a couple places that carry it in our area. Is that a better option than the regular pump gas?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kevin (Nov 7, 2016)

That's cool. I didn't know it was available. I can still get 93 no ethanol in town so I will still mix but it's nice to know that stuff is available.


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## Mike1950 (Nov 7, 2016)

Lucky for me a gas station 6 blocks away has no ethanol gas. Been using it for years. Might try that though- I do not use enough 2 cycle fuel to keep it from going bad.


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## JR Custom Calls (Nov 7, 2016)

I don't think I could handle paying for that when milling. I go through 5 gallons of mixed gas pretty dang quick lol. But, for anyone not using a ton of gas, this is the obvious way to go. I can get ethanol free gas in town at one station, hopefully they'll keep it up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blueglass (Nov 7, 2016)

Thanks that is good to know. I too have places with no ethanol and I will at least do that but will keep this in mind as well. I did not know any of this. Now I just need to get another chainsaw. I'm looking more and more at the Makita electric though. It should work great for my purposes and if I can do away with small engine noise even better.


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## gman2431 (Nov 7, 2016)

That or Rec gas is all I run. Especially in the boat... I'm glad rec gas is available locally here


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## woodtickgreg (Nov 7, 2016)

Schroedc said:


> @woodtickgreg - Not to derail your thread and I will be getting some of this stuff for my saws but what about the 91 octane non-oxygenated/no alcohol gas available for classic cars and recreational equipment and whatnot? We have a couple places that carry it in our area. Is that a better option than the regular pump gas?


Yes that is better fuel to use, but it still won't have the shelf life, just sayin. for the couple extra bucks I spend it is worth it in my opinion. And im not buying oil or fuel additives. would I use it when milling? dunno, depends on if I can get a deal on 1 to 5 gallons. I can tell you this though, my equipment has never run better and I'm no slouch when it comes to tuning a 2 stroke carb.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## woodtickgreg (Nov 7, 2016)

And guys if you are prepping your machine for storage, just dump out the pump gas, add this fuel, even in the 4 cycle variety, run the machine for about 5 minutes to purge the carb of the pump gas and your good for 2 years.


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## Kevin (Nov 7, 2016)

woodtickgreg said:


> And guys if you are prepping your machine for storage, just dump out the pump gas, at this fuel, even in the 4 cycle variety, run the machine for about 5 minutes to purge the carb of the pump gas and your good for 2 years.



It's worth it just for that alone.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kevin (Nov 7, 2016)

Looks like Husqvarna and several others also make premixed fuel.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## woodman6415 (Nov 7, 2016)

I switched to this type of fuel a year ago ... have not had a problem starting any of my small equipment since ...

Reactions: Like 1


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## JR Custom Calls (Nov 7, 2016)

Stihl and maybe Husqvarna offer an extra year or two warranty if you buy a six pack or two when you buy their saw or weed eater

Reactions: Agree 1


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## gman2431 (Nov 7, 2016)

Kevin said:


> Looks like Husqvarna and several others also make premixed fuel.



That's the one I've used


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## woodtickgreg (Nov 7, 2016)

JR Custom Calls said:


> Stihl and maybe Husqvarna offer an extra year or two warranty if you buy a six pack or two when you buy their saw or weed eater


Redmax does the same.


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## ripjack13 (Nov 7, 2016)

What about cam2? I can get that stuff here in the town next to me....


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## woodtickgreg (Nov 7, 2016)

ripjack13 said:


> What about cam2? I can get that stuff here in the town next to me....


Cam2 is actually race gas, and it might actually have lead in it but I'm not sure on that. It may be too high octane for our general purpose motors. The stuff the power equipment manufacturers are offering are all about 93 octane, equivalent to premium gas. Premium is great for 2 cycles.


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## ripjack13 (Nov 7, 2016)

I think it's 100-110 octane. But no matter. I have a can of the 93 stuff somewhere. I'll have to get more of it for my leaf blower and weed wacker...
Thanks Greg.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Clay3063 (Jan 2, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> Yes that is better fuel to use, but it still won't have the shelf life, just sayin. for the couple extra bucks I spend it is worth it in my opinion. And im not buying oil or fuel additives. would I use it when milling? dunno, depends on if I can get a deal on 1 to 5 gallons. I can tell you this though, my equipment has never run better and I'm no slouch when it comes to tuning a 2 stroke carb.


Thanks for the info Greg. I've seen the stuff on the shelves and just thought it was a gimmick to sell an over priced item to unawares customers. (I thought I was being a smart shopper.) I've had to work on several of my various engines over the last few years and have known about the alcohol problems for about as long. I wonder... you said it is white gas, would it be cheaper to just buy coleman or some other brand of white gas and mix it with the echo oil? I haven't bought any coleman fuel in a while but the pre mix you speak of is pretty much out of my pay grade even with the price of repairs.


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## woodtickgreg (Jan 2, 2017)

Clay3063 said:


> Thanks for the info Greg. I've seen the stuff on the shelves and just thought it was a gimmick to sell an over priced item to unawares customers. (I thought I was being a smart shopper.) I've had to work on several of my various engines over the last few years and have known about the alcohol problems for about as long. I wonder... you said it is white gas, would it be cheaper to just buy coleman or some other brand of white gas and mix it with the echo oil? I haven't bought any coleman fuel in a while but the pre mix you speak of is pretty much out of my pay grade even with the price of repairs.


No I can't advise that with confidence yet even though it smells the same. But I have found a new source for the fuel. vp racing small engine 4 stroke fuel, they also sell it in pre mixed 50:1 and 40:1 but I don't know what kind of oil they use. You can buy this stuff on line pretty cheap if you shop around. I just ordered a 5 gallon can of the 4 stroke fuel and I will just add the Echo Red Armor oil myself. You can get 5 gallon cans of it for about $72 to $76 on line. That puts it at about $3.80 a quart instead of $7, Now that's not far off from pump gas. Plus it still has a 2 year shelf life and no ethanol and 94 octane. I won't be rebuilding carbs or replacing them or my fuel lines either. Another brand that can be found on line at good prices sometimes is Trufuel. 
Because chainsaws spend so much time sitting I highly recommend using one of these fuels.


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## Clay3063 (Jan 3, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> No I can't advise that with confidence yet even though it smells the same. But I have found a new source for the fuel. vp racing small engine 4 stroke fuel, they also sell it in pre mixed 50:1 and 40:1 but I don't know what kind of oil they use. You can buy this stuff on line pretty cheap if you shop around. I just ordered a 5 gallon can of the 4 stroke fuel and I will just add the Echo Red Armor oil myself. You can get 5 gallon cans of it for about $72 to $76 on line. That puts it at about $3.80 a quart instead of $7, Now that's not far off from pump gas. Plus it still has a 2 year shelf life and no ethanol and 94 octane. I won't be rebuilding carbs or replacing them or my fuel lines either. Another brand that can be found on line at good prices sometimes is Trufuel.
> Because chainsaws spend so much time sitting I highly recommend using one of these fuels.


I thank you for this valuable information Greg. This whole government subsidized fuel crap problem makes me sick. It's time for a reboot of the system. I am headed out this morning to cut some logs and I know sure as shootin that I'm going to have to jack with my saws to get em running before I can cut anything.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## woodtickgreg (Jan 3, 2017)

And that is another reason I have switched to this fuel. For the little bit of extra cost it will save me time and money in the long run. With today's fuel it's not a question of if you will replace your carburetor and fuel lines, but when. Carbs are $40 to $100+ ish and a lot of $$$ for labor if you can't do the job yourself.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## gman2431 (Jan 16, 2021)

woodtickgreg said:


> I was curious so I googled it, its just a pry bar. But I guess that's not to say a bee keeper wouldn't use it for that.


How did this end up here?


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## woodtickgreg (Jan 16, 2021)

Dunno, that's the second time this happened tonight . I deleted the post.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## gman2431 (Jan 16, 2021)

woodtickgreg said:


> Dunno, that's the second time this happened tonight . I deleted the post.


Well delete mine also otherwise it looks silly.


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## woodtickgreg (Jan 16, 2021)

We like silly, lol.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## trc65 (Jan 16, 2021)

I feel silly that I keep checking this thread to find out what's happening with chainsaw fuel!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 6, 2021)

Here's a link to a video I watched that explains better than I can what is in fuel today and what is bad for your small engines. I knew that it wasnt just the ethanol but didnt know the facts on what is actually in pump gas. Many more reasons why I only run this type of fuel in my saws.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Mike1950 (Sep 6, 2021)

Clay3063 said:


> I thank you for this valuable information Greg. This whole government subsidized fuel crap problem makes me sick. It's time for a reboot of the system. I am headed out this morning to cut some logs and I know sure as shootin that I'm going to have to jack with my saws to get em running before I can cut anything.


there will be no reboot. Too much infrastructure has been built. Ethanol plants and corn everywhere.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mike1950 (Sep 6, 2021)

woodtickgreg said:


> And that is another reason I have switched to this fuel. For the little bit of extra cost it will save me time and money in the long run. With today's fuel it's not a question of if you will replace your carburetor and fuel lines, but when. Carbs are $40 to $100+ ish and a lot of $$$ for labor if you can't do the job yourself.


I buy the stihl gas for my stihl saw and blower. It is expensive but stays good a long time. saves a bunch on maintenance. So in long run it is much cheaper. Lawnmower and snowblower get The non ethanol hi-test. seems to work great


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## vegas urban lumber (Sep 6, 2021)

Mike1950 said:


> I buy the stihl gas for my stihl saw and blower. It is expensive but stays good a long time. saves a bunch on maintenance. So in long run it is much cheaper. Lawnmower and snowblower get The non ethanol hi-test. seems to work great


i have been using the green can 40 to 1 premix from lowes, in my chain saws and quickie saw. learned the hard way on 2 prior quickie saws and one chainsaw, destroyed cylinders from mixing my own gasoline.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nature Man (Sep 6, 2021)

woodtickgreg said:


> Here's a link to a video I watched that explains better than I can what is in fuel today and what is bad for your small engines. I knew that it wasnt just the ethanol but didnt know the facts on what is actually in pump gas. Many more reasons why I only run this type of fuel in my saws.


Based on my recent bout with my Stihl gas leaf blower, I am going to convert over to this fuel for the future. I also have a Stihl gas powered chainsaw and a Stihl gas powered hedge trimmer that I will also convert over. Thanks for posting this video and for all of the information you have provided. Chuck

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## JerseyHighlander (Sep 6, 2021)

I have a collection of chainsaws along with other yard and construction equipment. Besides using them extensively to cut trees on my own property and make several cords worth of firewood each year, as well as my woodworking pursuits that go from tree to finished product, I make a hobby out of buying vintage chainsaws and rebuilding them. Also just prefer using old, metal cased chainsaws that weren't made in Cheaper. Have rebuilt dozens of carbs and learned a lot about where issues come from and not. I don't disagree with the video guy except that if I used that "special canned gas" I would spend enough every year to buy another brand new chainsaw. I have a few quarts on hand that I keep for emergency but I make a special trip to get non-ethanol gas and then mix it with top of the line 2-cycle oil. Some my saws and other machines get put up wet, not used for six or eight months and start without issue when I take them off the hook with the same gas I put them up with.
Premium grade 2-cycle oil is made to neutralize the harmful factors of pump gas. Walmart grade oil isn't. 
The other factor I've found to make a huge difference is to stop using those damned plastic gas cans. Over time, the volatile organics will evaporate right through the plastic wall. You notice the expensive Stihl gas comes in a metal can... 

Just my $0.02 on the subject. Take it or leave it.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## NCWoodSmith (Sep 6, 2021)

Schroedc said:


> @woodtickgreg - Not to derail your thread and I will be getting some of this stuff for my saws but what about the 91 octane non-oxygenated/no alcohol gas available for classic cars and recreational equipment and whatnot? We have a couple places that carry it in our area. Is that a better option than the regular pump gas?


I use the REC90 fuel now, or the canned stuff


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## Alan R McDaniel Jr (Sep 6, 2021)

If only Trump had touted ethanol in gasoline, There'd be no ethanol in gasoline by now...

Alan

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 6


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## Karl_TN (Sep 6, 2021)

woodtickgreg said:


> Here's a link to a video I watched that explains better than I can what is in fuel today and what is bad for your small engines. I knew that it wasnt just the ethanol but didnt know the facts on what is actually in pump gas. Many more reasons why I only run this type of fuel in my saws.


As much as I like this Steve’s video, he is sponsored by Stihl (to what extent who knows) and is using Stihl marketing material. Makes me wonder if the stats can be backed up from an independent source that isn’t also trying to make money from those stats.

I can go through 2 to 4 gallons a month in my chainsaws so cost is a factor, but I’ll keep this fuel in mind for winter storage. Got the impression Steve will only be using canned fuel at the end of the season too.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike1950 (Sep 6, 2021)

Karl_TN said:


> As much as I like this Steve’s video, he is sponsored by Stihl (to what extent who knows) and is using Stihl marketing material. Makes me wonder if the stats can be backed up from an independent source that isn’t also trying to make money from those stats.
> 
> I can go through 2 to 4 gallons a month in my chainsaws so cost is a factor, but I’ll keep this fuel in mind for winter storage. Got the impression Steve will only be using canned fuel at the end of the season too.


2-4 gallons a month- use the stuff from gas station. I am lucky if I use a a gallon a year. I am a cheap [email protected] but for me the stihl gas works. and it lasts.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Clay3063 (Sep 19, 2021)

I can't believe I am saying this but since moving here to Colorado, and after we finally got a property and have started work on building the infrastructure, we've had to purchase a couple of new saws and a weed wacker, etc. and as such I've gone to buying the canned gas. At the price of premium pump gas these days, there is still a price difference but not as much as before. So far, we've done well, leaving the saws put up wet for two or three weeks at a time. But I guess time will tell. We're cutting at an altitude between 7100 and almost 9000 feet. The saws and the mill run pretty good at or below 8K but no so good above that. If I were going to cut above 8K more than I do I'd re-adjust the carbs again.

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## Karl_TN (Sep 20, 2021)

Clay3063 said:


> I can't believe I am saying this but since moving here to Colorado, and after we finally got a property and have started work on building the infrastructure, we've had to purchase a couple of new saws and a weed wacker, etc. and as such I've gone to buying the canned gas. At the price of premium pump gas these days, there is still a price difference but not as much as before. So far, we've done well, leaving the saws put up wet for two or three weeks at a time. But I guess time will tell. We're cutting at an altitude between 7100 and almost 9000 feet. The saws and the mill run pretty good at or below 8K but no so good above that. If I were going to cut above 8K more than I do I'd re-adjust the carbs again.


Clay, Curious what is the price for your premium pump gas with added oil compared to the cost of the canned fuel per gallon?

For comparison, I just picked up premium ethanol free gas for $3.79/gallon (regular ethanol gas goes for $2.99 here) this last weekend. Adding Stihl High Performance Oil adds another $2/gallon for a total of $5.79/gallon of mixed fuel. Much cheaper than any canned 2 stroke gas by at least a factor of 3 to 4.


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 20, 2021)

Karl_TN said:


> Clay, Curious what is the price for your premium pump gas with added oil compared to the cost of the canned fuel per gallon?
> 
> For comparison, I just picked up premium ethanol free gas for $3.79/gallon (regular ethanol gas goes for $2.99 here) this last weekend. Adding Stihl High Performance Oil adds another $2/gallon for a total of $5.79/gallon of mixed fuel. Much cheaper than any canned 2 stroke gas by at least a factor of 3 to 4.



Keep in mind that it's not just the ethanol that is causing the damage, even ethanol free fuel has the other damaging ingredients in it. Fuel today isn't what it used to be. Even running ethanol free fuel you will eventually have carb problems and damage to anything rubber in the fuel system like carb diaphragms and fuel lines. Not worth the few bucks you might save with pump gas, it will cost you down time and repair cost.
Just sayin..........

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## Karl_TN (Sep 20, 2021)

woodtickgreg said:


> Keep in mind that it's not just the ethanol that is causing the damage, even ethanol free fuel has the other damaging ingredients in it. Fuel today isn't what it used to be. Even running ethanol free fuel you will eventually have carb problems and damage to anything rubber in the fuel system like carb diaphragms and fuel lines. Not worth the few bucks you might save with pump gas, it will cost you down time and repair cost.
> Just sayin..........


I’ve not had to replace or rebuild carbs on my small engines in many years after switching to ethanol free gas. Maybe i’ve been lucky, or the ethanol free gas up North is lower quality than down here. I suppose it helps that I go through a bit of gas so it’s rarely more than 30 to 60 days old. In the winter it’s a different story so canned gas would be a good option for long term storage.

Still you say it’s only saving a few dollars more. I’d like to see your math on this. True fuel is $20 for only 110 ounce can at Lowes which makes it about $25 per gallon after tax which would make it 4x as much as what I‘m paying For ethanol free gas mix. The only way to save a few dollars is to use as little gas as Mike does each year.

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## Mike1950 (Sep 21, 2021)

Karl_TN said:


> I’ve not had to replace or rebuild carbs on my small engines in many years after switching to ethanol free gas. Maybe i’ve been lucky, or the ethanol free gas up North is lower quality than down here. I suppose it helps that I go through a bit of gas so it’s rarely more than 30 to 60 days old. In the winter it’s a different story so canned gas would be a good option for long term storage.
> 
> Still you say it’s only saving a few dollars more. I’d like to see your math on this. True fuel is $20 for only 110 ounce can at Lowes which makes it about $25 per gallon after tax which would make it 4x as much as what I‘m paying For ethanol free gas mix. The only way to save a few dollars is to use as little gas as Mike does each year.


Yep. And with small saw. Now diesel, I use a bunch of that. Last tractor was 30 hp. B7800. It was a fuel mizer. L3940 only 10 hp more, yikes it is a hungry beast. Between snowblower and lawn tractor I use 10+ gallons of ethanol free premium. Filled Saturday. $4.39 a gallon


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## Clay3063 (Sep 22, 2021)

Karl_TN said:


> Clay, Curious what is the price for your premium pump gas with added oil compared to the cost of the canned fuel per gallon?
> 
> For comparison, I just picked up premium ethanol free gas for $3.79/gallon (regular ethanol gas goes for $2.99 here) this last weekend. Adding Stihl High Performance Oil adds another $2/gallon for a total of $5.79/gallon of mixed fuel. Much cheaper than any canned 2 stroke gas by at least a factor of 3 to 4.


Our premium fuel is 91 octane and runs 4.39 cents I believe was the price I saw the other day. And it has ethanol in it. The only place around here to buy non-ethanol is the airport, buying 100 LL. I haven't even priced it. It's much cheaper to buy pump gas and mix until you have to replace a carb which I've had to do on two different 4 stroke engines in the last four years. I just decided to buy the high priced canned stuff for my saws and put a good quality fuel additive in the premium gas for my four strokes.


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## Clay3063 (Sep 22, 2021)

Clay3063 said:


> Our premium fuel is 91 octane and runs 4.39 cents I believe was the price I saw the other day. And it has ethanol in it. The only place around here to buy non-ethanol is the airport, buying 100 LL. I haven't even priced it. It's much cheaper to buy pump gas and mix until you have to replace a carb which I've had to do on two different 4 stroke engines in the last four years. I just decided to buy the high priced canned stuff for my saws and put a good quality fuel additive in the premium gas for my four strokes.


Oh and I've learned to cut the fuel and run the four strokes dry before putting them up.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Karl_TN (Sep 22, 2021)

Clay3063 said:


> Our premium fuel is 91 octane and runs 4.39 cents I believe was the price I saw the other day. And it has ethanol in it. The only place around here to buy non-ethanol is the airport, buying 100 LL. I haven't even priced it. It's much cheaper to buy pump gas and mix until you have to replace a carb which I've had to do on two different 4 stroke engines in the last four years. I just decided to buy the high priced canned stuff for my saws and put a good quality fuel additive in the premium gas for my four strokes.


 That stinks. Pure-gas.org shows no ethanol free gas stations anywhere near your area. Maybe somebody could bring you back a 5 gallon can of ethanol free gas the next time they drive down from Pueblo.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Useful 1


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## Mike1950 (Sep 22, 2021)

Karl_TN said:


> That stinks. Pure-gas.org shows no ethanol free gas stations anywhere near your area. Maybe somebody could bring you back a 5 gallon can of ethanol free gas the next time they drive down from Pueblo.


I am lucky. Have ethanol free gas 3 blocks away.

Reactions: Like 2 | +Karma 1


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## Nature Man (Sep 22, 2021)

Mike1950 said:


> I am lucky. Have ethanol free gas 3 blocks away.


My ethanol free gas is about 10 minutes from my house. Just filled up gas cans yesterday for my mower. Chuck

Reactions: Like 1


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## 2feathers Creative Making (Sep 26, 2021)

Ethanol free gas is available at the station at the end of my road. Which is about a ¹/4 mile away. I am fortunate because the next station is about 7 miles down the road.


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