# Walnut Storage- Advice Needed



## Steve in VA (Mar 8, 2020)

I got a bunch of walnut two weeks ago, and went back today for another load. 

I've sealed it with Anchorseal but would appreciate any advice on longer term storage as there is no way I'll get to rough turn it all right away.

I have it under our deck to keep it out of the sun and covered as much as possible. Would stickers between the pieces help prevent mold, or cause it to dry too quickly? 

All tips and tricks are greatly appreciated!!

Reactions: EyeCandy! 1 | Way Cool 2


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## Sprung (Mar 8, 2020)

Out of the sun is good. Looks like you've already got the pith cut out, which is a necessity. I would certainly sticker it - you will want some ability for airflow to prevent mold and for the wood to dry properly. 3/4" x 3/4" is the size I've usually used for stickers.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## woodtickgreg (Mar 8, 2020)

I not only seal the end grain but apply the sealant up about an inch or 2 from the ends as well. I dont seal the face so that it can release some moisture.


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## DKMD (Mar 8, 2020)

Agree with everything above. In my experience, walnut is pretty forgiving to dry, but the sapwood can get pretty muddy/ugly if it stays too wet.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## rob3232 (Mar 8, 2020)

Also might consider sealing the crotch areas with a coat or two as it tends to check a lot.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Mar 8, 2020)

Bring it to me and I'll store it!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Steve in VA (Mar 8, 2020)

Thanks for the advice guys!

Except maybe for Eric's! Hey @Eric Rorabaugh, I'll be down at the Appomattox Buckingham Forest at the end of April. I can bring you some if that's a convenient area for you?


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Mar 8, 2020)

Depending on when, I may be able to run up. It's only about 2.5 hours. I used to be assigned to Appomattox County and patrolled the forest. You recreating or working?


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## Steve in VA (Mar 8, 2020)

Spring turkey trip with a buddy of mine. 

I wasn't sure if that was an area you covered or not.


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Mar 8, 2020)

Not anymore. And I don't need the walnut. You able to get away pretty easily?


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## Steve in VA (Mar 8, 2020)

Not as often as I'd like to, but I get down that way at least twice a year; once for spring turkey and one during the bow season.

I wish I could get down there more, or had access to property that's closer. Been going down there for many years though and have a few friends in the area from college....VA Tech


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Mar 8, 2020)

I'm about an hour south of VT on 81.


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## Otterhound (Mar 8, 2020)

Mold prefers these 3 things .
Moisture , still air and darkness . Below 22%-25% moisture content , mold has trouble taking hold . Sticker it or stand on end and put a fan or fans on it until the moisture drops to the safe level . Keep your eyes on the wood and should mold appear , wipe the affected areas with naphtha and reset as before . This is a waiting game . If your temps remain at or below 45 degrees F , mold tends to not form . For myself , I would not store any wood that I don't want spalted or plain rotted under a deck . You're better off putting it in an attic . If you are going to stack it , stickers are a no brainer . Dry wood of the same species is always the best choice . Be prepared to undo the stack , wipe the wood down and restack if it becomes necessary . I see pith in a number of your pieces . Don't worry about that at the point you are at . I have finished and dried walnut with pith in it and it is just fine .


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## Mike1950 (Mar 8, 2020)

mold will do nothing to walnut. 90+% of moisture will escape from end grain but that crotch is end grain. Nice wood- keep out of sun- will take years to dry


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## Mike1950 (Mar 8, 2020)

Mike1950 said:


> mold will do nothing to walnut. 90+% of moisture will escape from end grain but that crotch is end grain. Nice wood- keep out of sun- will take years to dry


PS- not to be an asshat- I always am contrary- but do not put in attic- it will dry too fast. mine is 135 in summer.


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## Steve in VA (Mar 8, 2020)

Thanks again! 

It's definitely not going in the attic! My back is sore just from cutting it, putting on the Anchor Seal, loading it in the car, unloading it, and hauling it out behind the house and under the deck!!

There are some pieces that still have a pith. I tried to maximize the amount I got from it by cutting out the pith on the larger diameter pieces, and on the smaller sections taking it out on one half and leaving it in on the other. Then there were the pieces that had multiple piths from the crotch on one end and they twisted by the time I got to the other. Lining them up didn't always work out as well as I'd hoped. 

I'm learning more and more everytime though!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Otterhound (Mar 9, 2020)

Mike1950 said:


> PS- not to be an asshat- I always am contrary- but do not put in attic- it will dry too fast. mine is 135 in summer.


Mold certainly can be an issue with Black Walnut . I have lived it and speak from personal experience . The log that you see in my Avatar was milled and stacked in the typical manner at the time . Because the ambient RH remained so high that summer , I was forced to tear down the stack twice because of mold . Of course , Naptha saved the wood . I had fans on this stack for over 2 months and still got mold simply because of the humidity . That stack was below 22% and still got mold activity . Don't make the mistake of disregarding mold because you have Black Walnut . 
My kilns can reach a temp of 120 degrees F . Vacuum kilns function at around 500 degrees F . At this time of year , I doubt that the OP's attic temp will present any issues . Placement under a deck is always a bad choice simply because there are so many better places . 
Smart money wants his wood at or below 22% moisture content as quickly as possible . From there , the process can safely be slowed . Right now , the Walnut that I recently acquired is inside and under fans . The crotch section is also inside waiting . It needed to be removed from where it was and the mill can't take it for at least 2 months . The last thing I want is to have this section intact and out in the sun cooking . Mold and spalting surely will set in if permitted to do so . 
While I am on this subject . With lighter colored woods , if the wood is to be stored outside in log form , do your best to debark the log as allowing the bark to remain can cause staining of the wood inside .


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## Mike1950 (Mar 9, 2020)

Otterhound said:


> Mold certainly can be an issue with Black Walnut . I have lived it and speak from personal experience . The log that you see in my Avatar was milled and stacked in the typical manner at the time . Because the ambient RH remained so high that summer , I was forced to tear down the stack twice because of mold . Of course , Naptha saved the wood . I had fans on this stack for over 2 months and still got mold simply because of the humidity . That stack was below 22% and still got mold activity . Don't make the mistake of disregarding mold because you have Black Walnut .
> My kilns can reach a temp of 120 degrees F . Vacuum kilns function at around 500 degrees F . At this time of year , I doubt that the OP's attic temp will present any issues . Placement under a deck is always a bad choice simply because there are so many better places .
> Smart money wants his wood at or below 22% moisture content as quickly as possible . From there , the process can safely be slowed . Right now , the Walnut that I recently acquired is inside and under fans . The crotch section is also inside waiting . It needed to be removed from where it was and the mill can't take it for at least 2 months . The last thing I want is to have this section intact and out in the sun cooking . Mold and spalting surely will set in if permitted to do so .
> While I am on this subject . With lighter colored woods , if the wood is to be stored outside in log form , do your best to debark the log as allowing the bark to remain can cause staining of the wood inside .



we do not agree- walnut logs can sit for years with no degrade. a 4-5" thick piece of walnut- there is no hurrying it. walnut dries slow. 
To quote- - Vacuum kilns cause evaporation at low temperatures, but they still require heat ... To do this, we introduce a vacuum which lowers the atmospheric ... One problem - bulbs are not made to run in a vacuum, so if they a
500 degrees -I think they call that fire....


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## Otterhound (Mar 9, 2020)

Mike1950 said:


> we do not agree- walnut logs can sit for years with no degrade. a 4-5" thick piece of walnut- there is no hurrying it. walnut dries slow.
> To quote- - Vacuum kilns cause evaporation at low temperatures, but they still require heat ... To do this, we introduce a vacuum which lowers the atmospheric ... One problem - bulbs are not made to run in a vacuum, so if they a
> 500 degrees -I think they call that fire....


The high temps require the vacuum . In the absence of oxygen , combustion cannot take place . Vacuum kilns can actually dry ebony for fretboards in weeks , not months or years . Don't care where you got your quote because it is flawed . The Op has cut sections , not logs . Mold is a genuine concern for him .


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## Mike1950 (Mar 9, 2020)

Otterhound said:


> The high temps require the vacuum . In the absence of oxygen , combustion cannot take place . Vacuum kilns can actually dry ebony for fretboards in weeks , not months or years . Don't care where you got your quote because it is flawed . The Op has cut sections , not logs . Mold is a genuine concern for him .

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## Steve in VA (Mar 9, 2020)

I will say that I had some additional walnut from a different tree that was treated the same. However, I stored that under the deck as well, but up closer to the house. And mold did develop.

The current load, while still under the deck, is a bit further out towards the yard. My intention was to get a bit more air flow around it while still keeping it out of the sun. 

Assuming that I don't have the option to store it indoors (I'd like to stay married) is there a better method than under the deck? I believe where it currently is gets a decent air flow on most days. And right or wrong, I did AnchorSeal most of the cut faces, albeit lightly. And, for the most part, I left the bark on the outsides.

I really appreciate the responses, and differing opinions as well!


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## Mike1950 (Mar 9, 2020)

Steve in VA said:


> I will say that I had some additional walnut from a different tree that was treated the same. However, I stored that under the deck as well, but up closer to the house. And mold did develop.
> 
> The current load, while still under the deck, is a bit further out towards the yard. My intention was to get a bit more air flow around it while still keeping it out of the sun.
> 
> ...



have you used any of the wood that you have dried this way? Your answer for your method would be best answered by you.

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## Otterhound (Mar 9, 2020)

Remove the bark as soon as reasonable as this will help prevent problems . 
In all fairness to Mike1950 , I don't know where in Eastern Washington he is located , but much of Eastern Washington is quite arid and the Eastern USA is not . What works there may not work here . Can you construct a simple lean to ? Anything to get your wood off the ground , covered and available to airflow will help . It needn't be fancy . Coming into spring in Va will likely be wet and a bit humid . Getting ahead of that should be your current goal . How about a pop up canopy ?


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## Mike1950 (Mar 9, 2020)

Otterhound said:


> The high temps require the vacuum . In the absence of oxygen , combustion cannot take place . Vacuum kilns can actually dry ebony for fretboards in weeks , not months or years . Don't care where you got your quote because it is flawed . The Op has cut sections , not logs . Mold is a genuine concern for him .


Since my quote on vacuum kilns is wrong and so is all other info I can find, inc. A friend with a vacuum kiln I would like to see written info on 500 degree vacuum kiln. If that is not too much to ask.
Vacuum kiln of friends works on principle that water boils at lower temperature under vacuum. 85 degrees seems to be the number i find.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mike1950 (Mar 9, 2020)

Otterhound said:


> Remove the bark as soon as reasonable as this will help prevent problems .
> In all fairness to Mike1950 , I don't know where in Eastern Washington he is located , but much of Eastern Washington is quite arid and the Eastern USA is not . What works there may not work here . Can you construct a simple lean to ? Anything to get your wood off the ground , covered and available to airflow will help . It needn't be fancy . Coming into spring in Va will likely be wet and a bit humid . Getting ahead of that should be your current goal . How about a pop up canopy ?



Steve is a turner. Most will get turned before dry. Quite a bit different than guitar requirements. What he is doing in Virginia has a lot better chance of working there than here. Summers are hot and very dry
Humidity in teens is norm. I sticker my walnut burl with lath, 3/8" tends to slow down drying and reduces degrade. Yes it can mold but just surface. Trip through planer and beautiful walnut burl appears...

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## Otterhound (Mar 9, 2020)

Who are the manufacturers of your friend's vacuum kilns ? 
WM used to offer a vacuum kiln , but discontinued because of seal and operator problems that resulted in spontaneous combustion of product . Either seals failed or the kilns were opened before they had cooled . Introduce oxygen into a superheated environment and your wood will go up in flames . 
I see that you stated walnut burl . Burl does not fit into my plans . If I come across some , OK , but I don't look for it .
Speaking of burl , I have some Mulberry burl here and , I believe , a bit of cherry . 
I have not heard of the lowered pressure type before . An interesting concept though .


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## gman2431 (Mar 9, 2020)

I know nothing about this vacuum kiln but am more than intrigued by this super high temperature.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mike1950 (Mar 9, 2020)

Otterhound said:


> Who are the manufacturers of your friend's vacuum kilns ?
> WM used to offer a vacuum kiln , but discontinued because of seal and operator problems that resulted in spontaneous combustion of product . Either seals failed or the kilns were opened before they had cooled . Introduce oxygen into a superheated environment and your wood will go up in flames .
> I see that you stated walnut burl . Burl does not fit into my plans . If I come across some , OK , but I don't look for it .
> Speaking of burl , I have some Mulberry burl here and , I believe , a bit of cherry .
> I have not heard of the lowered pressure type before . An interesting concept though .



You did not answer my question. Written literature of the superheated vacuum kiln. 
My friend has not burnt any wood in his, again temperature is under 100 degrees.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## rob3232 (Mar 9, 2020)

@Otterhound I do not know where you get your info. from ? but try reading this. My apologies as it is a long read.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40725-016-0045-9

Rob

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## gman2431 (Mar 9, 2020)

So I just spent some time getting to know these kilns and it seems more vacuum less boiling point. Low as 90 degrees can boil the water outta wood. Interesting concept...

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## Mike1950 (Mar 9, 2020)

rob3232 said:


> @Otterhound I do not know where you get your info. from ? but try reading this. My apologies as it is a long read.
> 
> https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40725-016-0045-9
> 
> Rob


But, but where is the 500 degrees...  sorry I could not resist. Very interesting article. Do you guys have a vacuum kiln. I know Bolke in Cincinnati has one. I saw it while they were installing . Looked like mini sub.

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## rob3232 (Mar 9, 2020)

Mike1950 said:


> Do you guys have a vacuum kiln.



No vacuum kiln for us. I have met with a local tree trimmer that does though.They dry lots of natural edged slabs. I was amazed that he dries wood with no sticks between layers. His wood is flat and dry. Still really don't understand because I'm a slow learner and am stuck on traditional methods. As far as 500 degrees ????

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## Mike1950 (Mar 9, 2020)

rob3232 said:


> No vacuum kiln for us. I have met with a local tree trimmer that does though.They dry lots of natural edged slabs. I was amazed that he dries wood with no sticks between layers. His wood is flat and dry. Still really don't understand because I'm a slow learner and am stuck on traditional methods. As far as 500 degrees ????


500 plus, I know what that is, what I do my ribeyes at in my green egg... summer, please come to the

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## rob3232 (Mar 9, 2020)

I love my green egg! And especially ribeyes!

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## Otterhound (Mar 9, 2020)

Mike1950 said:


> You did not answer my question. Written literature of the superheated vacuum kiln.
> My friend has not burnt any wood in his, again temperature is under 100 degrees.


Maybe you don't know what WM is . It is Woodmizer and they no longer offer them .
I hear what you are saying . I am not deaf .
I had heard of these kilns when I was building mine . Chose not to go that route because of the issues with them .
Combustion does not occur in the absence of oxygen . This is how the high temps are achieved . It is done in a vacuum . You will not combust in a vacuum . Your hair will not combust in a vacuum . Your ribeyes will not combust in a vacuum .
Have any of you ever heard of torrifaction ?


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## Mike1950 (Mar 9, 2020)

Otterhound said:


> Maybe you don't know what WM is . It is Woodmizer and they no longer offer them .
> I hear what you are saying . I am not deaf .
> I had heard of these kilns when I was building mine . Chose not to go that route because of the issues with them .
> Combustion does not occur in the absence of oxygen . This is how the high temps are achieved . It is done in a vacuum . You will not combust in a vacuum . Your hair will not combust in a vacuum . Your ribeyes will not combust in a vacuum .
> Have any of you ever heard of torrification ?




Obviously we have a communication problem. It is you that talks about combustion not I. My vacuum kiln scenario operates at less than 100 degrees it is yours that operates at 500 degrees. I have asked for documentation of said kiln multiple times but you keep coming back with some BS about fire. put the damn facts out as to how what I said is false or move on...... facts not BS...... your kiln as stated does not get to 120 - this means you have no bug kill cycle. but before your kiln it was about how you only use air dried wood- make up your mind ...  is getting tired of shoveling BS.............. is that clear....

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## Mike1950 (Mar 9, 2020)

and sorry @Steve in VA - I had no intent to raise hell in your thread. But I/we have an obligation to try to keep information somewhat legit.. this has gotten bizarre. Your method will work for your purpose......

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## Otterhound (Mar 9, 2020)

Mike1950 said:


> Obviously we have a communication problem. It is you that talks about combustion not I. My vacuum kiln scenario operates at less than 100 degrees it is yours that operates at 500 degrees. I have asked for documentation of said kiln multiple times but you keep coming back with some BS about fire. put the damn facts out as to how what I said is false or move on...... facts not BS...... your kiln as stated does not get to 120 - this means you have no bug kill cycle. but before your kiln it was about how you only use air dried wood- make up your mind ...  is getting tired of shoveling BS.............. is that clear....


Please read the second sentence in my response . Your selective reading does not result in any BS on the part of anyone . Let me see if I can put this in words that you may understand . For personal uses , I prefer air dried wood . I am somewhat picky about what I will use for building guitars . I air dry and kiln . It is possible for one to do both . If something needs faster results , I kiln . There , it can be no more clear than that . Oh yeah , I actually have 2 kiln chambers , but I sold one of my kiln units because I no longer needed both . It would be very simple to install a new unit back into that chamber at any time . Like most , I keep the best for my uses . The kilns were installed for the purpose of supplying the CF Martin Co with American Sycamore sets . They are built to do the billets that I resaw backs and sides from . I don't stack wood . If the wood is going to do bad things , I am not interested in it for luthery . Only the best of the best will do for luthery . Hardly an elitist attitude , it is a necessity . Flaws that are acceptable for other purposes make wood useless for luthery . Even then , wood will sometimes do what it wants to , like crack or twist . After all , it used to be a freaking tree
Now here's a bell ringer . Could it be that there is a process out there that you are not familiar with ? What is torrefaction ?
Where does your bug kill comment come from ? As a side note , I have done work for the Ehrlich Co . They are a pest control business . This is where I learned about using heat to kill not only bugs , but their eggs , larvae and everything else . 145 degrees and keep it there for 3 hours just to make sure . I never once stated that I do that in a kiln .
Is there anything else ?


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## T. Ben (Mar 10, 2020)




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## Mike1950 (Mar 10, 2020)

Otterhound said:


> Mold certainly can be an issue with Black Walnut . I have lived it and speak from personal experience . The log that you see in my Avatar was milled and stacked in the typical manner at the time . Because the ambient RH remained so high that summer , I was forced to tear down the stack twice because of mold . Of course , Naptha saved the wood . I had fans on this stack for over 2 months and still got mold simply because of the humidity . That stack was below 22% and still got mold activity . Don't make the mistake of disregarding mold because you have Black Walnut .
> My kilns can reach a temp of 120 degrees F . Vacuum kilns function at around 500 degrees F . At this time of year , I doubt that the OP's attic temp will present any issues . Placement under a deck is always a bad choice simply because there are so many better places .
> Smart money wants his wood at or below 22% moisture content as quickly as possible . From there , the process can safely be slowed . Right now , the Walnut that I recently acquired is inside and under fans . The crotch section is also inside waiting . It needed to be removed from where it was and the mill can't take it for at least 2 months . The last thing I want is to have this section intact and out in the sun cooking . Mold and spalting surely will set in if permitted to do so .
> While I am on this subject . With lighter colored woods , if the wood is to be stored outside in log form , do your best to debark the log as allowing the bark to remain can cause staining of the wood inside .



Read, it says 500. Not my post. You wrote it.


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## Mike1950 (Mar 10, 2020)

I do not care about anything but info on the 500 degree kiln. You said my quoted info was wrong. Prove it. I will only answer 500 degree info to simplify this.


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## Otterhound (Mar 10, 2020)

Otterhound said:


> Maybe you don't know what WM is . It is Woodmizer and they no longer offer them .
> I hear what you are saying . I am not deaf .
> I had heard of these kilns when I was building mine . Chose not to go that route because of the issues with them .
> Combustion does not occur in the absence of oxygen . This is how the high temps are achieved . It is done in a vacuum . You will not combust in a vacuum . Your hair will not combust in a vacuum . Your ribeyes will not combust in a vacuum .
> Have any of you ever heard of torrifaction ?


Sentence #2 . Now , please stop the trolling .


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## Mike1950 (Mar 10, 2020)

Otterhound said:


> Sentence #2 . Now , please stop the trolling .



Ok so no 500 degree info other than your words... and why- there are no 500 degree kilns...


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## Otterhound (Mar 10, 2020)

Describe the process of torrefaction .


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## Mike1950 (Mar 10, 2020)

Otterhound said:


> Describe the process of torrefaction .


 You said my quote was wrong but provide no info to prove your statement of 500 degree vacuum kiln why - ????. try to stay on task. you are very long winded but cannot seem to answer just one question.. my only question- Info on 500 degree kiln. You need to clarify that one question before I will answer any ???. My guess- is there is absolutely no info on vacuum kiln operating at 500 degrees......


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## Tony (Mar 10, 2020)

I don't know anything about what these processes, but I think everyone needs to take a step back, have a couple cups of coffee and relax for a bit.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## gman2431 (Mar 10, 2020)

Tony said:


> I don't know anything about what these processes, but I think everyone needs to take a step back, have a couple cups of coffee and relax for a bit.


Neither did I but I did find it interesting looking into it! I always wondered what the vacuum kiln was all about because I hear people talk of them and also my buddy had some stuff done in one. 

It's good discussion minus the whole temp thing...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## The100road (Mar 10, 2020)

While the discussion is interesting it has made me do some googling. I did find this. Not 500 degrees but close and I think is what he is talking about? 

https://www.airex-industries.com/en/products/thermal-process/heat-treated-wood-kiln

or I could be wrong............


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## Tony (Mar 10, 2020)

The100road said:


> While the discussion is interesting it has made me do some googling. I did find this. Not 500 degrees but close and I think is what he is talking about?
> 
> https://www.airex-industries.com/en/products/thermal-process/heat-treated-wood-kiln
> 
> or I could be wrong............



YOU'RE WRONG STAN!!!!!!!!

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## Mike1950 (Mar 10, 2020)

The100road said:


> While the discussion is interesting it has made me do some googling. I did find this. Not 500 degrees but close and I think is what he is talking about?
> 
> https://www.airex-industries.com/en/products/thermal-process/heat-treated-wood-kiln
> 
> or I could be wrong............



Vacuum kiln is considerably different process. But good research. a cheap vacuum kiln (My friend's $50K) is not in my future and I bet one of those suckers cost $$$$$$$

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## T. Ben (Mar 10, 2020)

I have learned some things from reading this”discussion”. Thanks guys.

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## Tony (Mar 10, 2020)

T. Ben said:


> I have learned some things from reading this”discussion”. Thanks guys.



That's the whole point if this forum: sharing knowledge, wood and friendship.

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## gman2431 (Mar 10, 2020)

Mike1950 said:


> Vacuum kiln is considerably different process. But good research. a cheap vacuum kiln (My friend's $50K) is not in my future and I bet one of those suckers cost $$$$$$$


Oh come on mike... an old propane tank and about 6 vacuum pumps I'm sure we can make ya one! Or better yet @Tclem could!!!

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


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## Mike1950 (Mar 10, 2020)

gman2431 said:


> Oh come on mike... an old propane tank and about 6 vacuum pumps I'm sure we can make ya one! Or better yet @Tclem could!!!


no way- I have no stab tanks- and sure as hell am not going to let that crazy msiisiisipian in my shop....

Reactions: Funny 5


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