# Testicle cancer



## Mike1950 (Sep 2, 2017)

Ok- the can of worms got opened. Stuff happens to you in life for a reason. I got seminoma cancer in 2000. I will pass the message with the hope of saving one man- if so It will be more than worth the effort.
I will be quite frank and will mess with as few big words- this will cut down on editing.
Men are weird with their testicles. Just another body part but we tend to put any problem there on back burner.
When I was in high school a good friend got seminoma - in 1.5 yrs he was dead. Mostly an under 30 problem. It is hereditary. My great gramps died of it. Not on his death cert. but it was cause of death. It can be a very slow growing cancer. Men -Young men should be taught to do self examine.
In late spring 2000- I got a little- pea sized knot on right testicle - annoying but no big deal. I was 49. went to Doc- had known for 20 yrs- same age. He said no big deal- just twisted it and it would go away. Fast forward to August- I started napping all the time- never napped my whole life- end of aug. It was still there. Went back to doc- He says OK- just to reassure me he sent me for ultrasound. when they did the blood flow one on right testicle- I knew. Cancer needs blood and that damn little knot was sucking plenty. Saw a the Urologist 2 days later- He said my tumor was as small as he sees- That they had the DNA of this figured out. Do what he says and 98-99% cure. Curious I ask what was average size when they get to him- he looks me straight in eye and says golf ball. curious again- ok the biggest- he scowls-think grapefruit.  3 days later outpatient surgery. Jeez- a 3' incision in my groin- Yikes it was not that Big. They take testicle- and tube. This gives you 85% chance of 100% recovery. Problem is your testes start out right next to your lungs- then slide down as you grow in womb. They radiate this path to assure you of no more cancer. Went back to light duty work 2 days later- stopped pain pills - I hate them. Hell I am goofy enough without any supplements. I healed for 6 weeks. Got 5 little tattoos - the target and 17 treatments. ended on wed. before Thanksgiving. I started out at 155 lbs and they were worried about wasting. had to eat 96 grams of protein a day. I was already skinny. Kathie took great pride in putting 5 lbs on me in those 3 weeks. The radiation was no fun- and effects lasted for almost a year. some things made me sick to eat. But I have been cancer free every since and after 5 yrs you do not have to even put it on insurance or?
OK why the rant- do not be the grapefruit guy- it changed nothing- sex- energy- life- nothing- well there is the list!!!
Remember men are closed off beasts - we do not talk about such things- There are the pink bows for breast cancer but no blue ones. Do you know more men die of prostate cancer than
women die of breast cancer. We Die silently. Do not do that. The cure is no big deal. Do not ignore it........ Thanks for readin my rant...

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## Tony (Sep 2, 2017)

Mike, hats off to you for having the sac (pun definitely intented) to open up about this. You're right, we don't talk about these things but guys need to know this stuff and be aware. Everybody, check yourself out and get anything wrong taken care of! Tony

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## Eric Rorabaugh (Sep 2, 2017)

Glad to hear you're cancer free Mike! I lost both parents to cancer and it sucks. If only one person will listen to your words and get something that doesn't seem right checked out, you've succeeded. Stay strong brother.

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## Mike1950 (Sep 2, 2017)

Tony said:


> Mike, hats off to you for having the sac (pun definitely intented) to open up about this. You're right, we don't talk about these things but guys need to know this stuff and be aware. Everybody, check yourself out and get anything wrong taken care of! Tony



I want to emphasize- It changed nothing in my life except -the fatigue went away. The only way we as men stop ignoring these sort of things is if loud mouth old farts talk about it. Or at least some one has to... And thanks

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## Mike1950 (Sep 2, 2017)

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Glad to hear you're cancer free Mike! I lost both parents to cancer and it sucks. If only one person will listen to your words and get something that doesn't seem right checked out, you've succeeded. Stay strong brother.



Lost my first wife to cancer- she was never healthy- but she ignored it until too late. Thanks

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## The100road (Sep 2, 2017)

Very awesome post Mike. Thank you for telling your story. A lot of the same senarios apply to prostate cancer which I have had in my family.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 6


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## Clay3063 (Sep 3, 2017)

Mike1950 said:


> Ok- the can of worms got opened. Stuff happens to you in life for a reason. I got seminoma cancer in 2000. I will pass the message with the hope of saving one man- if so It will be more than worth the effort.
> I will be quite frank and will mess with as few big words- this will cut down on editing.
> Men are weird with their testicles. Just another body part but we tend to put any problem there on back burner.
> When I was in high school a good friend got seminoma - in 1.5 yrs he was dead. Mostly an under 30 problem. It is hereditary. My great gramps died of it. Not on his death cert. but it was cause of death. It can be a very slow growing cancer. Men -Young men should be taught to do self examine.
> ...



Several years ago, Mary's uncle finally went to the dr. I don't know how or why he waited as long as he did. Think musk melon / cantaloupe. SMH. When I found mine I had actually had a small lump on the left testicle for several years. I always attributed it to a slap in the nuts with a mesquite thorn several years ago. After seeing the doc, I was right. It was a scar like lesion. No blood vessels feeding it. But the other one definitely has blood vessels in it and feeding it. It's about the size of a black eyed pea. Maybe a little bigger. I noticed it Sunday two weeks ago. Didn't mess around. Went straight to the Dr. I will be treating it differently than you. I am not so much against losing one as I am worried about the radiation and chemo they want to give to ensure it's completely gone. This is usually a slow growing cancer so I have time. I am giving it 90 days. If I can't get rid of it in 90 days I will go the same route you did. I've already spoken with the Dr. about this.

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## Clay3063 (Sep 3, 2017)

Mike1950 said:


> I want to emphasize- It changed nothing in my life except -the fatigue went away. The only way we as men stop ignoring these sort of things is if loud mouth old farts talk about it. Or at least some one has to... And thanks



Fatigue is something I have definitely noticed this summer. More so than ever before. I have always taken a nap after lunch, even if it was a quick power nap. But this year has seen an increase in those naps and duration. No energy. No stamina. Nothing. work three or four hours and done. Funny thing, seems like after I got the diagnosis that it got worse. Funny how the brain will mess with you.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Clay3063 (Sep 3, 2017)

The100road said:


> Very awesome post Mike. Thank you for telling your story. A lot of the same senarios apply to prostate cancer which I have had in my family.


Prostrate cancer took my grandfather. Pancreatic cancer took my uncle 3 weeks ago. As a minister I have sat next to the death beds of many an individual that has had cancer and watched them take their last breath. It's never easy. Cancer sucks. Period. Testicular cancer is actually one of the easiest to diagnose and treat. I'm going a different route for several reasons. I'll explain as Mike has at a later date. It's one thing to talk about things, but unless you got factual evidence as does Mike, it's just words. So I am going to wait until I have definitive, factual evidence to back up my actions before I post anything else. 

Thanks again @Mike1950 ! I appreciate your candor and openness. you're absolutely right about the silence among men. And it's about the dumbest thing I know about our sex.

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## Ralph Muhs (Sep 3, 2017)

Prostate cancer here
Ten years ago I had a routine health checkup. Doc did the unpleasant digital exam. Said"You need to see a urologist. Something is not right". I had no symptoms. Did a psa test, not elevated. Had biopsy. It came back positive. Fairly advance. I made the decision to have it cut out. Have had no problems since! 
NO SYMPTOMS. Had it not been for a good doctor willing to do the exam, I might have had serious problems

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## Mike1950 (Sep 3, 2017)

Clay3063 said:


> Fatigue is something I have definitely noticed this summer. More so than ever before. I have always taken a nap after lunch, even if it was a quick power nap. But this year has seen an increase in those naps and duration. No energy. No stamina. Nothing. work three or four hours and done. Funny thing, seems like after I got the diagnosis that it got worse. Funny how the brain will mess with you.



Never have napped- It was like the plug being pulled. I could not have slept more- there was not that much time in a day. all this before being diagnosed. The day after the surgery -no more naps and I still do not.
Good Luck Clay, I hope your route works. We all have to walk our own journey.

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## woodtickgreg (Sep 3, 2017)

My brother had testicular cancer, had one removed, this was many years ago and he's still kicking. I had a colonoscopy at 50, they found stuff and removed it, 5 pollups 3 of them pre cancerous and of 2 different kinds. So glad I had the test done or I might not be here today! I have to go every 3 years now for retesting but they have all been clear since they removed the first pollups. Men get tested! It's the easiest cancer to treat if detected early. And self examine your testies regularly like the guys above have mentioned. Great info fella's and thanks for putting this out there.

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## Jim Beam (Sep 3, 2017)

Great post Mike.

Let me just chime in and say: do not neglect to get a colonoscopy when you turn 50. A good friend of mine died from a very preventable colon cancer, all because he did not get the colonoscopy. 

It's an easy procedure, only the prep is unpleasant. But it can save your life.

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## scrimman (Sep 14, 2017)

Cancer sucks. Period. Glad you made it through. Speaking of things guys are 'weird' about, be sure to check yourselves for breast cancer as well.....no joke. One of the teachers I work with found a lump on his accidentally and it turned out to be stage 3. He's ok now and cancer free, but it was one helluva haul for him.

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## David Hill (Sep 19, 2017)

Great post! 
Folks learned some things here.
I AM one if those Docs that is not at all afraid of using my finger(s), plus I perform colonoscopies too.
Glad y'all are willing to share your experiences, takes the "mystery" out of that "C" word.

Reactions: Thank You! 2


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## Schroedc (Sep 19, 2017)

David Hill said:


> Great post!
> Folks learned some things here.
> I AM one if those Docs that is not at all afraid of using my finger(s), plus I perform colonoscopies too.
> Glad y'all are willing to share your experiences, takes the "mystery" out of that "C" word.



Didn't know or didn't remember you were a doctor. GP or specialist?


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## Mike1950 (Sep 20, 2017)

David Hill said:


> Great post!
> Folks learned some things here.
> I AM one if those Docs that is not at all afraid of using my finger(s), plus I perform colonoscopies too.
> Glad y'all are willing to share your experiences, takes the "mystery" out of that "C" word.



Thanks David-I decided shortly after the radiation was over that I would not be silent. I think it helps- It has helped others- I think it helped at least one person here. Only takes one to make a difference.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Great Post 2


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## David Hill (Sep 20, 2017)

Schroedc said:


> Didn't know or didn't remember you were a doctor. GP or specialist?



Family Practice

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## Gixxerjoe04 (Sep 22, 2017)

My dad died from pancreatic cancer 6 years ago and my half brother died from colon cancer at 34, 6 years ago. I had a colonoscopy 4 years ago since he got it so early, and suppose to go every 5 years now and I'm only 30, better safe than dead, cancer does not discriminate.

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## Woodworking Vet (Sep 22, 2017)

Thank you Mike for not being silent. I've had a dull pain in my right testicle for two months and after reading your post I decided to call the VA Medical Center to make an appointment and have it looked at. I was told that the VA system in Spokane is not accepting new patients and that it would be a minimum of a one year wait before I can get in to see a doctor. And I'm in priority group 1, the highest priority of the eight groups. The lady said it could be as long as 18 months or longer.

So I decided to go see a civilian doctor, he agreed that something wasn't right and referred me to a urologist. The urology office called and said they are booked at least four months out and would not make an appointment for me until I had a sonogram done and that had to be ordered by the referring doctor. I called the doctor's office and he said if the urologist wants a sonogram then he can order it. I called the urology office and they said that they don't order it, and if I can't get it they can't see me. So I called my doctor back, he said he won't order it. So I asked him what do I do? What do I do with all this pain (feels like I've been kicked in the groin all day and night). He said he didn't know, suggested I find another urologist. So I called around, there is not one urologist that will see me without a sonogram. So now I'm perplexed, no one will do anything to help me get this looked at. I'm ticked, painfully ticked.

I figured since I'm here in California I would try a urologist down here. Good news is one is willing to see me in a couple weeks, but not without the sonogram. I'm thinking of driving 200 miles south to the VA in San Francisco but that is a long drive not knowing that I'll be able to see anyone. I'm seriously thinking of just going to the emergency room on Monday, maybe they'll help get a sonogram ordered and get me into see a urologist. And its not only about the pain, now I'm worried.

So just a note guys, if you have any discomfort or pain down there please don't procrastinate, it may be one of those situations where you too will have to wait to see a urologist and my understanding is the longer you wait the greater the likelihood of loosing a testicle.

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## TimR (Sep 22, 2017)

David, that is f'd up! Makes me really disappointed hearing that kind of round and round crap. I hope you can find a way thru hook or crook to get seen asap.

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## rocky1 (Sep 22, 2017)

Who needs socialized medicine, when the system is already screwed up that bad! Damn!!

Paging Doctor - @DKMD Paging Doctor - @David Hill --- Any suggestions guys??? https://woodbarter.com/threads/testicle-cancer.32660/#post-443858

Only thing I can think of is... Walk into the Emergency Room, fall in the floor, stick your finger down your throat before anyone notices, and puke all over the floor. Apologize and tell them the pain in your nuts is overwhelming. They'll do the Sonogram to try and figure out why you puked in the floor, and maybe you can get a referral to a Urologist out of the ER.

Don't walk in and tell them it's a 2 on a scale of 5, you'll stand in a corner in the waiting room that's advertising 13 minute wait times for an hour plus, while 30 people are camped out in the chairs they were obviously tired of sitting in, when you walked in... At about an hour and 15 minutes, I gave up and left, stopped by the drug store on the way home, and treated myself!


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## Mike1950 (Sep 22, 2017)

Woodworking Vet said:


> Thank you Mike for not being silent. I've had a dull pain in my right testicle for two months and after reading your post I decided to call the VA Medical Center to make an appointment and have it looked at. I was told that the VA system in Spokane is not accepting new patients and that it would be a minimum of a one year wait before I can get in to see a doctor. And I'm in priority group 1, the highest priority of the eight groups. The lady said it could be as long as 18 months or longer.
> 
> So I decided to go see a civilian doctor, he agreed that something wasn't right and referred me to a urologist. The urology office called and said they are booked at least four months out and would not make an appointment for me until I had a sonogram done and that had to be ordered by the referring doctor. I called the doctor's office and he said if the urologist wants a sonogram then he can order it. I called the urology office and they said that they don't order it, and if I can't get it they can't see me. So I called my doctor back, he said he won't order it. So I asked him what do I do? What do I do with all this pain (feels like I've been kicked in the groin all day and night). He said he didn't know, suggested I find another urologist. So I called around, there is not one urologist that will see me without a sonogram. So now I'm perplexed, no one will do anything to help me get this looked at. I'm ticked, painfully ticked.
> 
> ...


I agree this is bs. If you want to see why we do not want single payer , look no further then VA. but if you have cancer the testicle is history. All it means is you will be about an ounce lighter. Absolutely nothing else changes. I think GP is the one that sends you to ultrasound.


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## Gixxerjoe04 (Sep 22, 2017)

David, believe I'd be calling and cussing a lot of people, that's ridiculous. Since we are talking about those delicate things, about a month ago I got up and peed at about 4am. Not too long after I had laid back down my lower left back started to have constant deep pain, which then proceeded to my left testicle, was hurting like hell but figured it'd go away so I went in the living room and was hoping for it to go away. After an hour it was just worse, couldn't lay down or anything so I finally decided to wake my wife up and see what she thought I should do. Of course she said go to the ER. Ever since having a kid I've been a lot more trying focus on living as long as I can so being healthier and if something aint right, go get it checked. Well went to the ER, got a 20% discount on my copay since I paid when I got there which was nice . They figured it was a kidney stone, sampled what little dribble I could give them, did a cat scan, neither of which showed a stone. So they thought a tube was wrapped around my ball. Nothing like getting an ultrasound at 7am on a Sunday morning for 10 minutes, at least, of your junk by a girl younger than you and not awful looking either haha, talk about awkward. After everything they never found anything on what it was. I think it was a kidney stone bc right after I gave my pee sample I had the urgency to go again, felt awkward as hell down there for a second then the pain slowly went away.

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## wombat (Sep 22, 2017)

Woodworking Vet said:


> Thank you Mike for not being silent. I've had a dull pain in my right testicle for two months and after reading your post I decided to call the VA Medical Center to make an appointment and have it looked at. I was told that the VA system in Spokane is not accepting new patients and that it would be a minimum of a one year wait before I can get in to see a doctor. And I'm in priority group 1, the highest priority of the eight groups. The lady said it could be as long as 18 months or longer.
> 
> So I decided to go see a civilian doctor, he agreed that something wasn't right and referred me to a urologist. The urology office called and said they are booked at least four months out and would not make an appointment for me until I had a sonogram done and that had to be ordered by the referring doctor. I called the doctor's office and he said if the urologist wants a sonogram then he can order it. I called the urology office and they said that they don't order it, and if I can't get it they can't see me. So I called my doctor back, he said he won't order it. So I asked him what do I do? What do I do with all this pain (feels like I've been kicked in the groin all day and night). He said he didn't know, suggested I find another urologist. So I called around, there is not one urologist that will see me without a sonogram. So now I'm perplexed, no one will do anything to help me get this looked at. I'm ticked, painfully ticked.
> 
> ...




I've heard horror stories about the American health system, but I really don't understand why nobody will book you in for a simple ultra sound. @David Hill ??

I wasn't going to contribute to this thread, but as way to compare systems, this is my story......

I had been having weird bowel movements for a couple of years, but just put it down to getting older and becoming more food intolerant. 
Then just before last Christmas, things got really out of hand, but being summer here in Australia, where everything tends to shut down I didn't do anything about it until my GP was back from holidays. Anyway the Government sends out a bowel testing kit to those over sixty, up until then I used to just throw them out, but this time I took the test and failed. So I booked the GP and he immediately booked me in for a colonoscopy. The following week, on my 63rd birthday ( April 3rd) I failed the colonoscopy with honours ( a huge stage 3 tumour in my rectum) , coincidentally the Gastro guys had an office used my a colo rectal surgeon, so he booked me in for that Friday.
The doctor happen to be a Professor and is considered one of the best in Australia,o he took a look and immediately booked me in for a CAT and MRI scan.
The following Friday I delivered the scans to the hospital so a panel of cancer specialist could look at the scans during their weekly meeting. 5 specialists took a look and agreed on a course of action. A week later I'm having intensive radiation therapy ( six weeks of radiation condensed into one week ). About two weeks after the radiation I'm on the operating table getting an "ultra low colorectal " operation. The radiation did it's job, shrunk the tumour and killed any cancer in the lymph nodes, so no Chemo therapy. 11 days in hospital in a private room and I leave with a temporary illiostomy bag (everything comes out the small intestine). October 3rd I get the bag removed. So it's been 5 months from Discovery to Recovery, All up I think I'm out about a $500.00 dollars for a few sundries.

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## Bigdrowdy1 (Sep 22, 2017)

Thanks Mike for bringing those issues to the fore front. John Wayne is dead so there fore being bullet proof dont exist now. Medically myself $hit has went down hill the past 5 yrs. Lost high pitch frequency in my right ear loud ringing( deal with that as a call maker). Trying to figure out cause, found Brain tumor bottom of brain in an inoperable place in the midst of my brain stem. Been monitoring for the last 5 years for changes. 2 years ago crossed over to being a diabetic. Life can be challenging for sure if you dont feel right get it checked out. Thanks for bringing the shadowy issues to the surface. I fight everyday so I can live to be as OLD as the  from Eastern Washington . I got them Grandkids today that really makes me want to be there fore them, to be doing what I can to share with them and enjoy them as Grand Parents should. Life is way to short too blow it off!!
I have shared more with my WB family now than I have with my blood family.Only Kevin new most of this. My parents and most my family don't even know about this. This has been my internal battle I have chosen to fight. It feels good to share with others that ain't going to go off the deep end worrying.

Thank you Mike and others for sharing



Rodney

I may not feel too much better But I am still the Sausage King from !!

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## Woodworking Vet (Sep 22, 2017)

The pain some times is so great that I wish I had the balls (pun intended) to cut it off myself. My GP refuses to write up an order saying its the urologist's duty. Of course the urologists all say the opposite. I would change my primary doctor but I can't until I return in three weeks, and then I would have to wait how long to get in and see one? I wish I could use the VA because then I wouldn't have to pay a penny, living on a small fixed income I don't have the money to too many private doctors. I may decide to pay for my Tricare insurance so I can see a doctor on the air force base, its $274 a year for that insurance but again, small fixed income. I might have to do that though.

@rocky1 , I'm going to follow your advice and go to the ER on monday. I'm going to go keeled over, crying like a baby and claiming my pain is a 6 out of 5. I hope they have a sonogram thingy here in this tiny town, I hope they figure it out. I had testicle torsion in 1987 when I was in the Navy, had to have emergency surgery at 2am to fix the problem. The sailor in the bed next to me waited too long and lost both of his. I can't believe my doctor won't help, and says to just wait months until I can get into urology (who of course won't see me). My doctor is a male, I hope his testes become painful and that he can't find a doctor. Maybe its just an infection, maybe I just need antibiotics. I hope not to lose it but if I do I can stand to lose an ounce.

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## DKMD (Sep 22, 2017)

@Woodworking Vet That’s a strange deal with the ultrasound. I understand that getting insurance approval for studies is a PITA, but I don’t understand why your GP won’t order it. Since the urologist has never seen you, it doesn’t seem appropriate for them to order a test without seeing you first, but it might be a wasted visit without the test result available.

Possible solutions...

1. If the GP is employed by a hospital system(not private practice), you could call his or her boss. Employed docs all have to answer to someone in administration, and administrators don’t like complaints. That might get the ball rolling(pun fully intended).

2. Urgent care might be cheaper than the ER, and any MD/DO/PA/NP can order the damn ultrasound. Hell, even the chiropractors here can order imaging.

3. If there are freestanding imaging centers in your area, you might be able to pay cash for the ultrasound without a physician order. Even with an order, they’re usually cheaper and faster than hospital based radiology departments.

4. You could try calling your insurance company. It would be my last resort since I detest dealing with them.

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## Woodworking Vet (Sep 22, 2017)

Thanks for the suggestions @DKMD . My GP is a private practice physician, no boss to go to. Nearest urgent care to here is about two hours inland, there is a small er ten minutes down the road. I too don't understand my GP's reluctance to order a sonogram. It seems to me that if I have that done before seeing a urologist then we're one step ahead of the game. If I see a urologist now (if one would see me without the sonogram) then the first thing he would probably do is order the sonogram. When I asked my GP if I was supposed to just wait and wait with the pain he said 'try some tylenol'. Regardless, I'm going to the ER on Monday, seems like its my only option. First thing I'm doing when I get back to Spokane is to find a new GP. I changed GPs six months ago, I complained about my painful feet for a year and he just kept saying its nothing, lets talk about your blood pressure (or something else). I'm diabetic and in one year of complaining of my feet hurting he never once looked at my feet. So I switched doctors six months ago, the new one said in five minutes that I had diabetic neuropathy. Got on a treatment plan and am doing better. But now the painful teste and this doctor seems not to care. Gonna change doctors but I'm running out of options aside from paying for the privelage of using on base military doctors. Arrrrrrrrrrrr...........

I might call the VA. I think if I call them with an urgent issue and if there is no VA facility within so many miles then they'll pay for my emergency room visit. I did that one time and from here the nearest VA is 200 miles. Worth a try. Thanks guys for listening.

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## Tony (Sep 22, 2017)

@Woodworking Vet that sucks big time! I hope you get some resolution soon David, nobody should have to deal with that kind of a runaround. 
@Bigdrowdy1, man, I hope everything is okay, need you around a ling time brother! Tony 

To everyone else, please take care of yourselves! We all know how devastating it was to lose Kevin, we certainly don't need any more of that! Tony

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## woodtickgreg (Sep 23, 2017)

Don't you just love our medical professionals. It's not about our well being anymore, it's all about money and bureaucracy. Keep looking for a doctor that cares, they are out there. And good idea about going to an er.

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## Mike1950 (Sep 23, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> Don't you just love our medical professionals. It's not about our well being anymore, it's all about money and bureaucracy. Keep looking for a doctor that cares, they are out there. And good idea about going to an er.


I disagree- Most have a calling. My GP and his dad who was my previous GP put in long hours- expose themselves to every disease on the planet- listen all day about every physical or mental- real or not real malady imaginable. Insurance and bureaucratic restrictions are not the doctor's fault. Seems if you read above most are good experiences and one bad one.

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## Mike1950 (Sep 23, 2017)

Mike1950 said:


> I disagree- Most have a calling. My GP and his dad who was my previous GP put in long hours- expose themselves to every disease on the planet- listen all day about every physical or mental- real or not real malady imaginable. Insurance and bureaucratic restrictions are not the doctor's fault. Seems if you read above most are good experiences and one bad one.



and this does not mean I do not sympathise with David's situation. I do. But I respect the people in the medical industry- even if they do have some wacko wood wastin turners amongst them....

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## rocky1 (Sep 23, 2017)

Woodworking Vet said:


> I might call the VA. I think if I call them with an urgent issue and if there is no VA facility within so many miles then they'll pay for my emergency room visit. I did that one time and from here the nearest VA is 200 miles. Worth a try. Thanks guys for listening.




Might want to research it a little before calling David, there have been a number of changes recently and if there is any one thing I have found amongst government employees, many of the folks telling you what the rules are, don't always necessarily know what the rules are. But yes, I'm sure the VA allows such, the military has similar guidelines.


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## Woodworking Vet (Sep 23, 2017)

rocky1 said:


> Might want to research it a little before calling David, there have been a number of changes recently and if there is any one thing I have found amongst government employees, many of the folks telling you what the rules are, don't always necessarily know what the rules are. But yes, I'm sure the VA allows such, the military has similar guidelines.



@rocky1 , the Choice program does not work here in Spokane. I've been going to the Vet's Garage every Tuesday for months and have not yet met one veteran that likes the program. For those that don't know what it is the Choice program allows veterans that cannot be seen by the VA within 30 days to be seen by non-VA doctors. Veterans, like myself, are told they can be on the waiting list to see a VA doctor (a minimum of a year in Spokane) or they can join the Choice program, they cannot do both. If a vet chooses the Choice program they cannot be on the waiting list. The budget for the program is limited, I was told when the funds run out there will be tens if not hundreds of thousands of vets having to be put on the waiting list and then the wait time could be numerous years. There is no forecast for when the budget will run out. Its a flawed system and many of us interpret the program as "to be seen by a doctor", not "to be treated by a doctor". 

Here is an example. My neighbor is a veteran on the Choice program. He's been having breathing problems and his finger tips are blueish in color. He called to make an appointment with his Choice assigned doctor. The doctor had to then get approval from the VA to see my neighbor (James). That took almost a month. James goes in and sees the doctor. The doctor decides that James needs an x-ray. The doctor then has to send a request back to the Spokane VA for approval. Four weeks later the approval comes back. James makes an appointment and gets his xray done. He has lots of spots on his lungs. Doctor wants to see James but has to wait until the VA approves the next appointment. Three weeks later James sees the doctor. The doctor says James needs to see a pulmonary doctor. A request is sent to the VA for approval. Five weeks later the approval comes back, James makes an appointment with a pulmonary doctor, soonest appointment is 61 days down the road. James goes to the pulmonary appointment only to be told that his VA approval was only good for 60 days and had now expired (by one day). So now James had to make an appointment with his Choice approved GP, wait three more weeks to get approval to see his doctor, then wait another four weeks to get approval to see the pulmonary doctor, and another eight weeks to see the pulmonary. Every time he needed to see his GP or get an x-ray, ct scan, blood work or see a specialist he had to wait for approval from the VA. He's still waiting for a diagnosis and its been six months. His finger tips under the nails are now turning black and still no answers.

This is just one example, all the vets I've talked to at the Vet's Garage have similar stories of having to wait for VA approvals to get things done with their Choice doctors. Its for this reason I won't join the Choice program. As the program states, they will guarantee that you will see a doctor within 30 days, there is no mention that you will be treated in a timely manner. Maybe things are different outside of the Spokane VA jurisdiction. The Spokane VA had an emergency room but closed it because too many vets were using it. They were using it because they couldn't get in to see a doctor. 

Just to be fair, when I was in the VA system in Houston TX and Palo Alto CA I had very minimal issues. Great doctors, timely appointments (though I'm not a fan of their automated appointment system). It was only after I moved to Spokane and tried to transfer to their system that I'm running into one problem after another. When I got married and filled out the paperwork to add my spouse as a dependent it took three years for the Spokane VA to process the single page form. Anyway, I apologize for my rant and the long reply and the diversion off topic. Rocky, I just wanted you to know why I won't use the Choice program here in Spokane.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Great Post 1 | Informative 1


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## Tony (Sep 23, 2017)

Woodworking Vet said:


> @rocky1 , the Choice program does not work here in Spokane. I've been going to the Vet's Garage every Tuesday for months and have not yet met one veteran that likes the program. For those that don't know what it is the Choice program allows veterans that cannot be seen by the VA within 30 days to be seen by non-VA doctors. Veterans, like myself, are told they can be on the waiting list to see a VA doctor (a minimum of a year in Spokane) or they can join the Choice program, they cannot do both. If a vet chooses the Choice program they cannot be on the waiting list. The budget for the program is limited, I was told when the funds run out there will be tens if not hundreds of thousands of vets having to be put on the waiting list and then the wait time could be numerous years. There is no forecast for when the budget will run out. Its a flawed system and many of us interpret the program as "to be seen by a doctor", not "to be treated by a doctor".
> 
> Here is an example. My neighbor is a veteran on the Choice program. He's been having breathing problems and his finger tips are blueish in color. He called to make an appointment with his Choice assigned doctor. The doctor had to then get approval from the VA to see my neighbor (James). That took almost a month. James goes in and sees the doctor. The doctor decides that James needs an x-ray. The doctor then has to send a request back to the Spokane VA for approval. Four weeks later the approval comes back. James makes an appointment and gets his xray done. He has lots of spots on his lungs. Doctor wants to see James but has to wait until the VA approves the next appointment. Three weeks later James sees the doctor. The doctor says James needs to see a pulmonary doctor. A request is sent to the VA for approval. Five weeks later the approval comes back, James makes an appointment with a pulmonary doctor, soonest appointment is 61 days down the road. James goes to the pulmonary appointment only to be told that his VA approval was only good for 60 days and had now expired (by one day). So now James had to make an appointment with his Choice approved GP, wait three more weeks to get approval to see his doctor, then wait another four weeks to get approval to see the pulmonary doctor, and another eight weeks to see the pulmonary. Every time he needed to see his GP or get an x-ray, ct scan, blood work or see a specialist he had to wait for approval from the VA. He's still waiting for a diagnosis and its been six months. His finger tips under the nails are now turning black and still no answers.
> 
> ...



We need to have a "pissed as hell" emogee. That really sucks David.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mike1950 (Sep 23, 2017)

Yes, it sucks, and we have people pushing for the government to take over medicine for all of us. VA are the folks that spent 3/4 of a million on art for the VA's blind clinic.... GRRRRR

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Woodworking Vet (Sep 23, 2017)

Just another note (hopefully a quick note). A contributing factor for the long wait through the Spokane VA Medical Center is that three or four years ago there was a mass walkout of doctors and nurses in one day. My understanding is the reason was because the doctors were not being allowed to treat veterans the way they wanted to, the VA tied their hands and limited what treatment options were available. I've had a couple civilian doctors tell me its probably best that I can't get into the VA because they have such a bad reputation here. Spokane has several outpatient clinics nearby and throughout Eastern Washington however a vet can't go to one without first going through the main medical center in Spokane to be assigned a doctor. Its a vicious cycle. Had I known that the VA up here was so flawed I would have reconsidered moving to Spokane. From the outside people see the Choice program as a solution to get vets the medical care they need, so all it good. But its not and I double Spokane is the only area having these problems. Basically the VA is acting like the insurance company who has to pay the bills so they need to see and approve where every penny goes. 

None of this though helps me painful groin right now. I can a long time to see a VA doctor, wait the time it takes to get through the Choice program, wait until I get back to Spokane in three weeks to find a new GP and start over with trying to see a urologist or just walk into the ER. Either way I'm ticked, grumpy and not a very happy person right now. Thanks for letting me vent and thank you Mike for bring this topic up. I hope others that may have testicular pain don't procrastinate like I did.


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## Woodworking Vet (Sep 23, 2017)

Mike1950 said:


> Yes, it sucks, and we have people pushing for the government to take over medicine for all of us. VA are the folks that spent 3/4 of a million on art for the VA's blind clinic.... GRRRRR



Are you kidding me? Please tell me they really didn't do that. Maybe they should spend a half million for a kick ass high def sound system for the deaf clinic.

Many veterans have made huge sacrifices for our country, they all deserve prompt and decent medical care.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Woodworking Vet (Sep 23, 2017)

@Mike1950 , I apologize if I hijacked your thread and took it off topic, that was not my intention. Thank you for bringing up the topic as its what got me off my butt to get things looked at in the first place. Cancer, or the prospect of cancer, is a very scary thing. I'm hope that this awareness you brought up will keep us all a little more aware of ourselves.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike1950 (Sep 23, 2017)

Woodworking Vet said:


> @Mike1950 , I apologize if I hijacked your thread and took it off topic, that was not my intention. Thank you for bringing up the topic as its what got me off my butt to get things looked at in the first place. Cancer, or the prospect of cancer, is a very scary thing. I'm hope that this awareness you brought up will keep us all a little more aware of ourselves.



David you cannot steal my thread- It is serving the purpose I intended. Actually exceeding my expectations. keep talking here.

Reactions: +Karma 1


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## Schroedc (Sep 23, 2017)

I can't imagine that wait. I've got a lump and some discomfort I'm trying to get checked out, each time they do something, wait a week, try something else. Finally to the point they did an ultrasound, they aren't sure what it is now, finally getting into a urologist.

Reactions: Sincere 1


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## Sprung (Sep 23, 2017)

David, I have heard and witnessed the same types of things here with the VA (though not as a patient, but as one who serves people who do doctor with the VA). In the congregation I serve as the pastor of, there are quite a few vets. Many of them have their own insurance through either purchasing it (especially for their family - most are farmers) or through their employer. However, there are some who have chosen to doctor through the VA system, even though the nearest VA hospitals are over 2 hours away.

I will say this, and I hate thinking about it: I have done funerals for guys who would still be alive and doing well if they had not been doctoring through VA system. Individuals who have needed help but couldn't get it in a timely manner and, by the time they actually got to start working with a doctor, it was too late and they've been told, "Sorry, there's nothing we can do for you."


Also, Mike's right - if anything doesn't seem right, get yourself checked out. I've done funerals for people who waited too long to get something checked out and it ended up killing them...

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Sincere 2


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 23, 2017)

Mike1950 said:


> I disagree- Most have a calling. My GP and his dad who was my previous GP put in long hours- expose themselves to every disease on the planet- listen all day about every physical or mental- real or not real malady imaginable. Insurance and bureaucratic restrictions are not the doctor's fault. Seems if you read above most are good experiences and one bad one.


You misunderstood what I was trying to say. I don't think all doctors are bad, far from that. But the system is broken and there are some bad docs out there too. I have a great relationship with my gp. But even his hands are tied sometimes because of the govt stepping in with obama care and screwing things up and all the crap with insurance rates and what they will or will not cover. The va is even worse! Guys are dying waiting to be treated. So yeah I did read all off the above post and I get it, but tell me that the system is not broken and that there are some bad docs out there. Just the fact that he is getting the run around and bounced back and forth is bs! Neither one has come up with a real solution to his problem to get him treated, why the hell doesn't either one just authorize the required test to get him treated. Hey I know, lets put there balls in a vice and start squeezing them until one of the idiots just does the right thing and request the test! Seriously your going to sit there and defend how high and mighty the medical professionals are when you here about stuff like this? But like I said most docs are dedicated to doing the right thing, the system is broken, and a few docs too. They know what could happen if he is not treated in a timely manor, and yet they do nothing!


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 23, 2017)

If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck I'm calling it what it is.........quack!


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## Mike1950 (Sep 23, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> You misunderstood what I was trying to say. I don't think all doctors are bad, far from that. But the system is broken and there are some bad docs out there too. I have a great relationship with my gp. But even his hands are tied sometimes because of the govt stepping in with obama care and screwing things up and all the crap with insurance rates and what they will or will not cover. The va is even worse! Guys are dying waiting to be treated. So yeah I did read all off the above post and I get it, but tell me that the system is not broken and that there are some bad docs out there. Just the fact that he is getting the run around and bounced back and forth is bs! Neither one has come up with a real solution to his problem to get him treated, why the hell doesn't either one just authorize the required test to get him treated. Hey I know, lets put there balls in a vice and start squeezing them until one of the idiots just does the right thing and request the test! Seriously your going to sit there and defend how high and mighty the medical professionals are when you here about stuff like this? But like I said most docs are dedicated to doing the right thing, the system is broken, and a few docs too. They know what could happen if he is not treated in a timely manor, and yet they do nothing!



There have always been some bad Doc's, plumber's, teachers, cops etc etc etc. You are out of line- might want to look back and see who started this thread and what it was really about- how many MEN opened up and talked about what is not easy to talk about. The system was not broken until the government decided to fix it, I paid My own and My employees insurance for 25 yrs. I know more about the medical insurance system then most and have the 100's of thousands of US DOLLARS in receipts to prove it. Wife was a pro computer geek- designed some of those time saving programs. This -the VA is government run insurance- think about what is said by these vets before you vote next time.... I will defend the professionals- They are not the problem here. It is the VA bureaucracy. Has nothing to do with the pro's RANT OVER.


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## DKMD (Sep 23, 2017)

I think you’re both right... the system sucks and there are a few turds in the punch bowl.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 23, 2017)

Mike1950 said:


> There have always been some bad Doc's, plumber's, teachers, cops etc etc etc. You are out of line- might want to look back and see who started this thread and what it was really about- how many MEN opened up and talked about what is not easy to talk about. The system was not broken until the government decided to fix it, I paid My own and My employees insurance for 25 yrs. I know more about the medical insurance system then most and have the 100's of thousands of US DOLLARS in receipts to prove it. Wife was a pro computer geek- designed some of those time saving programs. This -the VA is government run insurance- think about what is said by these vets before you vote next time.... I will defend the professionals- They are not the problem here. It is the VA bureaucracy. Has nothing to do with the pro's RANT OVER.


Duh, no kidding that's what I said before you disagreed with my statement. And I believe you are the one out of line Mike, you ought to try not being so critical of others opinions.


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## Mike1950 (Sep 23, 2017)

and sorry to continue my rant but the doc'cs hands are tied. blamin them is stupid. It is the system that is wacky. Try on line medicare- You have to change password every 60 days. GET REAL. Equiax got hacked- anybody that had their info in their system is vulnerable- all of us. They got in from the backside- passwords are a way to keep your mother out of your info- the hackers go in the other way. blamin the medical pros is not right.


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## Mike1950 (Sep 23, 2017)

woodtickgreg said:


> Duh, no kidding that's what I said before you disagreed with my statement. And I believe you are the one out of line Mike, you ought to try not being so critical of others opinions.



Why??? are we all supposed to agree. If so I do Not like--- fill in the blanks ---- we have a right to disagree. If you disagree you get to say so. I THINK the medical profession is filled with 95% really dedicated people and 5% flakes. show me better...


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## Mike1950 (Sep 23, 2017)

and sorry folks- Let us continue on what thread was about.


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## Tony (Sep 23, 2017)

@woodtickgreg 
@Mike1950 

Let's all take a deep breath here. Both of you are good, decent men who's opinions many people besides me respect. We all want the same things: good health care that was reasonable to understand and keeps us healthy. The way I see you y'all are both right. Yes, there are serious problems with healthcare and especially the VA. Yes, the vast majority of doctors and good, decent people who want to do the right thing and help people. Let's all take a step back, remember that we are all friends here. Tony

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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