# Cost of milling??



## chippin-in (Mar 3, 2012)

The last guy I used to mill lumber charged $40hr and he was mobile and came to my place. I thought this was very fair pricing. However, when I called him this time, I left several messages to which he only replied once. He left a message saying he would call the next day, but didn’t. I called him back a few times, but to no avail. Either he is out of business or just don’t want to mill my logs. I even asked him that in one of the messages I left. 

I also offered a trade deal. I told I would bring the logs to him. His website also says he has lumber milled and ready to go. So I offered to trade him the logs I have plus cash for already milled lumber and that way he could mill the ones I brought, however and whenever he wanted to. Still no reply. Oh well.

I have been in contact (email) with another mill about 70 miles away. His price is $95hr and $20 for broken/damaged blades due to foreign objects. He uses an LT40 I think. I offered the same trade deal with him, but he did not mention it in his reply so I assume he does not want to do it. That’s fine. I was trying to save myself some time.

Im not sure how many logs I will need for 150 pickets, 7.5 ft long and prolly ¾” thick, but I have about 10-12 logs in the 16-20+ diameter range. I could get more if needed. I am curious if that will be enough. I wish they were larger in dia for milling purposes, but that’s what they are. 

Any ideas on how many logs I would need and at those sizes-how many milling hours, approx, am I looking at? Would it just be cheaper and easier to buy them? Is $95hr fair?

I do have another guy 1 mile from the house, but he charges $90hr plus $40 for blades, damaged and dull. Damaged I can see, but dulling should be part of the price.

Another mill across town charges $50hr plus a $200 set-up fee. I think that’s a little ridiculous, but maybe that’s good business, I don’t know.

I even thought I might take a 250 mile trip to north Texas…north of Dallas.

What do yall think?

Thanks
Robert


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## Kevin (Mar 3, 2012)

chippin-in said:


> ...
> I even thought I might take a 250 mile trip to north Texas…north of Dallas.
> ...



Yeah you could do that if you don't mind being turned into a slave for a week as far behind as I stay I would let you go until . . . . well think of the work version of Texas Chainsaw Massacre? :diablo: 

$95 an hour can be a good rate or a rip off. Different mills, different operators, some logs are straight some crooked, some 16" some 26" and on and on - just too many variables. Woodmizer says my turbo-charged diesel LT40 Super Hydraulic can mill 675 BF per hour but I have never managed that much or anything even close. But I am not a production sawyer, I don't tail for myself, and I don't have access perfectly square trees either in order to get to that rate so maybe it's possible with all the preceding criteria available. :wacko1:

Ask any prospective sawyer to look at your logs and give an estimated production per hour if no snags are hit. If he is hesitant either he doen't know what he's capable of at least a ballpark with a given pile of logs just by looking at them, or he just wants a very large window to milk the job. A busy mobile or custom sawyer will not do either. He wants to knock it out, earn repeat business from you and maintain a good reputation and move on to the next job asap. 





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## chippin-in (Mar 4, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. I figure if I can get 50 boards an hour it might be worth it. I may see if I can just get them flat sawn at about 12 inches wide then rip them myself. Just depends on the next bid or two that I get.

Thanks
Robert


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## Woodsman (Mar 28, 2012)

chippin-in said:


> The last guy I used to mill lumber charged $40hr and he was mobile and came to my place. I thought this was very fair pricing. However, when I called him this time, I left several messages to which he only replied once. He left a message saying he would call the next day, but didn’t. I called him back a few times, but to no avail. Either he is out of business or just don’t want to mill my logs. I even asked him that in one of the messages I left.
> 
> I also offered a trade deal. I told I would bring the logs to him. His website also says he has lumber milled and ready to go. So I offered to trade him the logs I have plus cash for already milled lumber and that way he could mill the ones I brought, however and whenever he wanted to. Still no reply. Oh well.
> 
> ...




You mentioned Dallas in your post. Where are you located? I drive all over Texas and into OK and occasionally LA with my mill. Did you say what kind of logs you had? Let me know if you are still looking. I bet we can help.


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## Jim_Rogers (Mar 29, 2012)

First of all paying for dulling a blade is a known thing but most, I believe, don't charge for that. It is figured into the cost of doing business.

I don't charge for that. But I do charge for hitting objects.

You should try and find someone who will do it by the bdft of lumber produced.
This is the fairest way, in my opinion, to do a sawmilling job. It fair to the customer and to the sawyer.

The only time I saw "by the hour" is when I'm sawing salvage stuff that is already squared up and we're just re-sawing it to make flooring or some other product.

I don't know what my hourly rater of bdft is and I don't care to try and figure it out. It doesn't matter to me. I don't know if I do 100 bdft or 200 bdft. If you asked me for that I'd tell you I don't know, and I've been sawing for 18 years.
And I think I know what I'm doing, in my opinion.

If I was going to saw logs by the hour, then the customer could stand there and say, saw faster. do it faster, I want more per hour. I don't like that kind of pressure. I want to do the job right. What's right for the customer and what's right to get the best lumber out of the log.

Sawing by the bdft, it doesn't matter if I make 6 cuts or 16 cuts to get a great piece out of the log. You only pay for what is made not how long it took me to make it.

In order to figure your costs you need to make up a list of all the lumber you'll need for your project. A stock list. This will tell you the thickness, width and lengths of the pieces you'll need, in bdft.
If you want to rip them later that's up to you.

Most sawmills can't cut 3/4" boards to the bottom board. The bottom board may have to be thicker due to the clamps that hold the piece while it's being sawn. Most can saw 3/4" boards down to the bottom board, but if I was doing that I'd charge you more than the standard rate per bdft as it will take more cuts to make what you want.

After you have a stock list you could also do a log list. That is you'll have to measure your logs. To measure a log to estimate log or lumber volume from that log you need to measure the long length in feet, and the diameter of the log on the narrow end of the log (usually the end towards the top of the tree). You measure inside the bark and I usually measure left and right as well as up and down to get an average width in inches. And using these two dimensions convert them into log/lumber estimated volume.

What you'll need is either a chart or use an online log volume calculator.
These charts will give you the log volume in bdft. But you'll also need to know which log volume calculator to use. There are three, they are Doyle, Scribner, and International. I use international.

I don't know if this information has helped you or muddy the waters.....

Jim Rogers

PS. I don't know if there is a log volume calculator on this forum or not, so you may have to do a search to find one.

PPS. I have attached a sheet to use to show you how to measure a log and a sheet to write down the measurements.


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## Kevin (Mar 29, 2012)

Excellent post Jim. 





.


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## Jim_Rogers (Mar 29, 2012)

Here is a link to a thread where there is a link to an online log volume calculator:
http://woodbarter.com/Thread-Online-conversion-calculators?highlight=log+calculator


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## davduckman2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Kevin said:


> Excellent post Jim.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



great info jim thanks dave


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## Woodsman (Mar 29, 2012)

Jim_Rogers said:


> You should try and find someone who will do it by the bdft of lumber produced.
> This is the fairest way, in my opinion, to do a sawmilling job. It fair to the customer and to the sawyer.



In my part of the country, this is the only way to make money at it. Our trees in general are too short and too crooked to make a lot of lumber quickly. When I first started for people, one of the first jobs I landed was 2 semi loads of Eastern Red Cedar for a fellow that wanted 1 by's out of it. I agreed to do them by the board foot. I was in OK logging them and they were in Dallas, so I didn't have the chance to go and look at them. They were all 4"-8" in diameter and 8'-12' long. I barely covered the costs of doing the job, let alone, make any money at it.



Jim_Rogers said:


> If I was going to saw logs by the hour, then the customer could stand there and say, saw faster. do it faster, I want more per hour. I don't like that kind of pressure. I want to do the job right. What's right for the customer and what's right to get the best lumber out of the log.
> 
> Sawing by the bdft, it doesn't matter if I make 6 cuts or 16 cuts to get a great piece out of the log. You only pay for what is made not how long it took me to make it.



I have never had a customer do that to me. They have all treated me with respect and understand that I am doing my best, as fast as I can. I have never had anyone complain about what I charge either.


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## Jim_Rogers (Mar 29, 2012)

I'm as sure as you are that there are all kinds of ways to charge for the same job.
Others have said that they only saw cedar by the hour because of the nature of the logs.
I don't saw any of that up here so I can't comment on that at all.

Thanks for all your comments.

Jim Rogers


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## chippin-in (Mar 30, 2012)

Woodsman said:


> You mentioned Dallas in your post. Where are you located? I drive all over Texas and into OK and occasionally LA with my mill. Did you say what kind of logs you had? Let me know if you are still looking. I bet we can help.



Im in Houston. I mentioned Dallas cuz Kevin is somewhat near there. I said it somewhat jokingly. Not that I wouldnt let him mill my stuff...I trust him more than anyone else I have spoken to. But it would be a long haul with 10-15 ERC logs on a trailer and to come back with a trailer full of lumber.

I was going to use them for a fence, but I found a guy who gave me what I believe to be a really good deal on the fence.

All that being said, at some point I would like to get the cedar milled along with some pecan I have laying on the ground (it was struck by lightning twice I think and has been dead a while). The limbs of the pecan have begun spalting. I havent really looked at the trunk. I have two other pecans on the ground, but they are pretty crooked. Ive been giving some of the small limbs as cookin wood to friends. I cut it, load it, haul it back and they use it...for free...is something wrong with my Modus Operandi?? 

The cedar is still standing. I didnt want to cut it til I was ready to mill it. Most of the trees are are 18-24" at the base and 25ft tall, if I remember correctly

Im just not sure when Ill have the money to mill it all. I spent my millin money on the fence. 

If driving to Houston..actually, the trees are in Chappel Hill near Brenham (ever heard of them) (Chappel Hill Sausage Company??? MMMMMMMM) Anyway, if that is something you would consider I will keep you in mind when I decide to do it.

Thanks
Robert

Also Jim, great info as well. I wonder why no one Ive talked to mills by the bdft?


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## Woodsman (Mar 30, 2012)

chippin-in said:


> If driving to Houston..actually, the trees are in Chappel Hill near Brenham (ever heard of them) (Chappel Hill Sausage Company??? MMMMMMMM) Anyway, if that is something you would consider I will keep you in mind when I decide to do it.
> 
> Thanks
> Robert
> ...



Most sawyers don't mill by the board foot in Texas for the reasons that I stated. It's just not profitable. 

I was called to Houston after one of the hurricanes. The client had a 4' oak that had come down around the corner from him that he wanted to mill up. Turned out to be some really pretty grained oak.


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## chippin-in (Mar 30, 2012)

So let me throw this out there. Iffin you was to make the trip down here, can you give me an idea of what it would take to be worth your while? Hours? Boardfeet? 

We have a small house there if you wanted to stay overnight instead of driving back if it was too late. And you could bring a rod and reel if you fish. Is the temptation workin yet?

Seriously tho, let me know if this is something you might interest you in the future. 

Thanks
Robert 

BTW, what part of Texas are you in?


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## Woodsman (Mar 30, 2012)

chippin-in said:


> So let me throw this out there. Iffin you was to make the trip down here, can you give me an idea of what it would take to be worth your while? Hours? Boardfeet?
> 
> We have a small house there if you wanted to stay overnight instead of driving back if it was too late. And you could bring a rod and reel if you fish. Is the temptation workin yet?
> 
> ...



I am in Stephenville (76401). The place to stay would cut down on the cost for sure. As to how much I charge, see here.....

http://www.cuttingedgewoodworksonline.com/sawmilling.html

The travel time would be the kicker. If I could get a full day in (10 hours cutting time), it would probably be something like fuel + something for time on the road (usually not much considering the drive). The fellow in Houston actually split that cost with another person that he found who wanted some logs milled up as well. When I got there, I milled at one place first (about 3 1/2 hours worth) and then worked on the other one for the remainder of the day. This is what I would recommend. A post to Craigslist will usually turn up someone who wants logs milled or who is in your area that does it. 

Good straight logs that you have stacked, limbed, and are free of mud, dirt, etc are the best. If you have met those criteria, and the moon, stars, and whatever planets need to be aligned, then I would estimate that those logs (guessing about 10' long here) would take about 30-45 minutes each.....providing you are making all 1 by material out of them. All of this is assuming that you are helping to offload and whatever else. I find that this is the most effective way to cut the cost. I haven't had any complaints as yet either. Most people are enthusiastic about getting to help. We are after all, wood workers.

I hope that this helps, and if not, my contact info is on the web page.


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