# Logging via fb- Holly!



## David Hill (Dec 16, 2018)

or subtitle: “ Don’t tell a Texas girl with a chainsaw what she can’t do!” ( and a husquie at that!)
Was perusing fb yesterday when I saw a post from one of my friends— that she had decided a Holly tree had to go! She had posted that she had most of it cut, but still had some “big” stuff to do. Fortunately was able to get her to let me finish the cutting. I had a few doubts of whether it was Holly, but my gosh—- it was! Pointy leaves, red berries and white wood!
My Stihl made short work of the stump— got 2 nice bigger pieces; she had started a cut yesterday.
Still have to seal ends.
Does Holly check much? Never seen it.

Reactions: Like 2 | EyeCandy! 1 | Way Cool 2


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## Jamesis (Dec 16, 2018)

A Holly Jolly Christmas!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DKMD (Dec 16, 2018)

I thinks it’s prone to checking and cracking, so I’d seal it ASAP. Nice find!

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## ironman123 (Dec 16, 2018)

Nice haul David.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## jasonb (Dec 16, 2018)

My experience is it checks like crazy.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


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## steve bellinger (Dec 16, 2018)

I’ve cut a lot of holly. I never had it crack any worse than anything else. Now as far as warping that stuff will warp like crazy. If it was me I’d definitely take as much of the pith out as fast as I could. If you have never turned holly you are in for a real treat IMHO. Make sure you cut up a bunch of smalls for finials. That stuff holds details like nothing else and can take it O so thin.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1 | Informative 2


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## FLQuacker (Dec 16, 2018)

Biggest issue I've had with it is getting that green/blue tint staining in it....turned a pot call striker the other day and you are right! Wow...smooth to turn.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 2


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## FranklinWorkshops (Dec 16, 2018)

I agree with Wayne. The holly will take on a grey-blue color if not dried soon after cutting. I would slice what you can as soon as you can and let it air dry in your shop for a year with stickers between each layer. The really white holly sold by retailers has been dried in a vacuum kiln soon after cutting, most likely. But holly has been used for centuries as inlay stringing so the old guys had to air dry it, I'm sure.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## Nature Man (Dec 16, 2018)

What a beautiful sight -- a pickup loaded with wood! And Holly...wood at that! Congrats! Plan on selling any? Chuck

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## David Hill (Dec 16, 2018)

Nature Man said:


> What a beautiful sight -- a pickup loaded with wood! And Holly...wood at that! Congrats! Plan on selling any? Chuck


Sure— can sell some. Hadnt quite decided what I want do with it, other than turning. It’s green!


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## Nature Man (Dec 17, 2018)

David Hill said:


> Sure— can sell some. Hadnt quite decided what I want do with it, other than turning. It’s green!


I may be interested down the road a bit. I'll let you know. Chuck


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## Bigg081 (Dec 17, 2018)

David Hill said:


> Sure— can sell some. Hadnt quite decided what I want do with it, other than turning. It’s green!


I'd prob be interested too. Hard to resist a good turn!


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## Mike1950 (Dec 17, 2018)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> I agree with Wayne. The holly will take on a grey-blue color if not dried soon after cutting. I would slice what you can as soon as you can and let it air dry in your shop for a year with stickers between each layer. The really white holly sold by retailers has been dried in a vacuum kiln soon after cutting, most likely. But holly has been used for centuries as inlay stringing so the old guys had to air dry it, I'm sure.


Kilns have been around for centuries also


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## FranklinWorkshops (Dec 17, 2018)

Mike1950 said:


> Kilns have been around for centuries also


For pottery, yes. I'm not aware of any wood drying kilns in the 1700's but you might be right.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike1950 (Dec 17, 2018)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> For pottery, yes. I'm not aware of any wood drying kilns in the 1700's but you might be right.


1890, popular science had a plan for home built wood kiln. They have been using kilns for a very long time.

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## FranklinWorkshops (Dec 17, 2018)

Mike1950 said:


> 1890, popular science had a plan for home built wood kiln. They have been using kilns for a very long time.


Interesting, I'll look that up. Would like to see how they controlled the temperature and air flow before electricity. Solar kilns are a poor substitute as you know. 
There was a lot of holly used for inlays in the mid 1700 to 1840 time period and I'm not aware of any wood kilns that early. Maybe there was and my historical knowledge is lacking.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## FranklinWorkshops (Dec 17, 2018)

Found it. VERY interesting reading on the history of drying wood. First successful kiln seems to have been in 1875. This is well worth reading. 

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Popular_Science_Monthly/Volume_45/July_1894/Kiln-Drying_Hard_Wood


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## Mike1950 (Dec 17, 2018)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> Found it. VERY interesting reading on the history of drying wood. First successful kiln seems to have been in 1875. This is well worth reading.
> 
> https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Popular_Science_Monthly/Volume_45/July_1894/Kiln-Drying_Hard_Wood



Nah read further

Occasionally a little lumber for interior finish, where an extra fine job was desired, was run through the dry-house for a final drying, and later, after machine-made sash, doors, and blinds began to take the place of the old hand-made goods, being generally made from air-dried stock, they were sometimes put through the dry-house before being wedged and pinned.

These dry-houses contained such an element of fire risk that they were generally built in isolated positions as close to water as possible. Even then they were a constant menace to all surrounding property as well as to their own contents. Lumber, except in small pieces, dried in them was apt to be checked and warped or twisted more or less, and was not at all satisfactory save in the one feature of being free from moisture.

The fire risk at last became so great where the establishments requiring the dry-houses were situated in towns, and the restrictions of underwriters so onerous, that along in the fifties some crude attempts were made to substitute steam for the furnaces by conducting the exhaust from the engines running the works into the cellars.

It is not definitely known when or by whom the first attempts were made, but it is a fact that as early as 1855 the trial was made by a manufacturer in northern Massachusetts. But the experiment did not prove very satisfactory, for the reason that the steam had to be carried quite a long distance; the science of protecting steam pipes so as to prevent condensation was not as well understood as at the present day; the engine was none too large and the boiler capacity limited, and there was more or less back pressure.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2


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## Mike1950 (Dec 17, 2018)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> Found it. VERY interesting reading on the history of drying wood. First successful kiln seems to have been in 1875. This is well worth reading.
> 
> https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Popular_Science_Monthly/Volume_45/July_1894/Kiln-Drying_Hard_Wood



I can find PNW pictures of kilns in about 1900


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## FranklinWorkshops (Dec 17, 2018)

Mike1950 said:


> Nah read further
> 
> Occasionally a little lumber for interior finish, where an extra fine job was desired, was run through the dry-house for a final drying, and later, after machine-made sash, doors, and blinds began to take the place of the old hand-made goods, being generally made from air-dried stock, they were sometimes put through the dry-house before being wedged and pinned.
> 
> ...



The "dry houses" reference in your quote are not called "kilns". Here is the paragraph just above the portion of the article you quoted:

"For years these dry-houses—they were not then dignified by the name of kilns—were only used in connection with certain manufactories for drying stock already cut up for tubs, pails, and other wooden ware; small boxes, chairs, and other furniture material; turned work and Yankee-notion stock in general; no regular lumber stock being subjected to the process."

THIS is down a bit farther in the article following your quoted passage:

"A patent was granted to Hannah and Osgood, November 27, 1866, for "an improvement in the method of drying lumber" and other patents followed in rapid succession, a full history of which is shown by the records of the Patent Office. *But it does not appear that any really successful kiln was built until the year 1875*, when one was erected at Stillwater, Minn., and a little later one in Chicago, if the records are correct, for Pond and Soper, though Turner Brothers had one built about the same time. The dates as to when the first steam drier was put in successful operation are a little foggy, claims being made both for Stillwater, Minn., and St. Albans, Vt."

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## Mike1950 (Dec 17, 2018)

and if you read further the furnace- wood fired under the lumber- creating convection was probably the first method and probably started in northern climates. Here we have a great 4-5 month drying season and the rest of the time nothing dries. Not to hard to see how stacking 1000's of board ft of lumber on top of a wood fired furnace could have some inherent problems. PNW is is littered with towns that do not exist anymore- they all burnt down. Google Harrison, Idaho at the Mouth of the Coeur D'alene river, I think it at one time had 18 Mills. steamboats went up and down rivers and lakes.

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## Mike1950 (Dec 17, 2018)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> The "dry houses" reference in your quote are not called "kilns". Here is the paragraph just above the portion of the article you quoted:
> 
> "For years these dry-houses—they were not then dignified by the name of kilns—were only used in connection with certain manufactories for drying stock already cut up for tubs, pails, and other wooden ware; small boxes, chairs, and other furniture material; turned work and Yankee-notion stock in general; no regular lumber stock being subjected to the process."
> 
> ...



But---- dry houses sure were not air dry either. sorta like calling a solar kiln not a kiln cause it does not use steam or a dehumid not a kiln cause it does not use steam....


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## FranklinWorkshops (Dec 17, 2018)

Between us, Mike, we have now allowed others to read almost the entire article. Well done. We need to tag team more articles. The thing I noticed about that article is the writing is modern like we read today. Most writers in the 1800s are very hard to read because their use of the language is more stilted and formal. Even the words used are the same we use today. Very unusual for 1894. It's also like someone re-wrote it recently.

Reactions: Like 2


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## David Hill (Dec 17, 2018)

Glad I could supply an opportunity for education.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Funny 2


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## Mike1950 (Dec 17, 2018)

David Hill said:


> Glad I could supply an opportunity for education.


It will grey fast. Winter is the best time to cut.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## barry richardson (Dec 17, 2018)

Never worked with Holly, but it sounds like it might be a good candidate for turning green very thin, then letting it do it's thing, might not discolor as much and may take on some interesting shapes as it dries...

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## Mike1950 (Dec 17, 2018)

barry richardson said:


> Never worked with Holly, but it sounds like it might be a good candidate for turning green very thin, then letting it do it's thing, might not discolor as much and may take on some interesting shapes as it dries...


My guess is you are right on thin and staying white.


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## Mr. Peet (Dec 18, 2018)

Dave, seeing the darkish heart makes me wonder if it was East Palatka holly, Ilex x attenuata (I. opaca & cassine) or another common southern holly. I would have sprayed each endgrain with bleach, air dry some then coat the ends. The saw often carries the bacteriums that cause discolorations to the wood, thus the bleach treatment.

Nice score, good luck.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## FranklinWorkshops (Dec 18, 2018)

Mr. Peet said:


> Dave, seeing the darkish heart makes me wonder if to was East Palatka holly, Ilex x attenuata (I. opaca & cassine) or another common southern holly. I would have sprayed each endgrain with bleach, air dry some then coat the ends. The saw often carries the bacteriums that cause discolorations to the wood, thus the bleach treatment.
> 
> Nice score, good luck.


Mark, could he also use wood bleach to whiten the gray discoloration caused by the bacteria? I've bleached several woods but never holly.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Mr. Peet (Dec 18, 2018)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> Mark, could he also use wood bleach to whiten the gray discoloration caused by the bacteria? I've bleached several woods but never holly.



It can be done, but often does not have consistent results, blotchy, for big pieces. Small pieces it does do fine, with some color shift at the ends.

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## David Hill (Dec 18, 2018)

Mr. Peet said:


> Dave, seeing the darkish heart makes me wonder if to was East Palatka holly, Ilex x attenuata (I. opaca & cassine) or another common southern holly. I would have sprayed each endgrain with bleach, air dry some then coat the ends. The saw often carries the bacteriums that cause discolorations to the wood, thus the bleach treatment.
> 
> Nice score, good luck.



Thanks! I sprayed the ends with 50/50 bleach. Just now painted ends with anchorseal— had to wait to dry.


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