# weird red oak from ROB3232 --- any ideas on cause ???



## phinds (Jul 24, 2013)

Among the other woods that Rob kindly contributed to my site was some very weird red oak that looks on the outside like someone used it as a pincushion. You can't see it very well but the cambium (the black-covered pic below) shows lots of little holes and they go all the way down into the wood (and I'm NOT saying that they start at the cambium). These all correspond to rays that seem to have gone nuts for some reason, as you can see in the end grain closeup. The whole plank (both actually, he sent two) is covered with what I would otherwise think were bark inclusions or even perhaps tons of tiny ingrown branches, but the way they correspond to rays rules those out.

I have not posted these to my site yet, because I'd like to figure out what it IS before I do.

Anyone have any ideas on what the heck is going on with these rays? Are they drunk? On drugs? 

[attachment=28144]
cambium with hard to see pinholes

[attachment=28142]
end grain showing how the "holes" corresponds to rays (cambium is on the bottom of this pic)

[attachment=28141]
fine-sanded end grain closeup (upside down relative to the pic directly above) really showing the weird rays but with perfectly normal rays all around them.


[attachment=28145]
face grain of a plank

[attachment=28143]
closeup of the upper right section of the pic directly above. You can easily see why I say these look like they could be bark inclusions or tiny ingrown branches

Anybody have a clue what's going on here?

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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Jul 25, 2013)

I see what you are saying about ingrown branches. I see this in elm (siberian & chinese) in my neck of the woods. I also tend to keep small burl clusters for stopper blanks where I see that shape as the eyes go deeper into the wood. 

Here in WI oak wilt is rampit in the northern part of the state. As the leaves die some trees produce suckers off the main trunk in effort to live. If rob knew the condition of the log prior to milling regarding sucker growth that would help pin down if that is the cause or not.


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## barry richardson (Jul 25, 2013)

I had some alder that looked like that, but more so. I called it birdseye:dunno:


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## rob3232 (Jul 25, 2013)

Treecycle Hardwoods said:


> I see what you are saying about ingrown branches. I see this in elm (siberian & chinese) in my neck of the woods. I also tend to keep small burl clusters for stopper blanks where I see that shape as the eyes go deeper into the wood.
> 
> Here in WI oak wilt is rampit in the northern part of the state. As the leaves die some trees produce suckers off the main trunk in effort to live. If rob knew the condition of the log prior to milling regarding sucker growth that would help pin down if that is the cause or not.



Sorry, but I did not see the log before it was sawn. I saved all of the lumber for the owner of the mill and was able to save a couple of slabs for myself. It was over 15+ years ago but here are a couple of picts. of a small organizer I made from one of the slabs. 
[attachment=28164][attachment=28165]
The piece is kind of hard on the eyes but at least I have something usefull that I saved from the chipper:irishjig::irishjig:


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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Jul 25, 2013)

Hmm it does look like suckers how those pockets are in there. Because of the nature of a "sucker " they really have no anchors in a tree like a branch does. I have seen it where small burl clusters pop out at the point where they started growing in the tree and leave a void in the board/blank similar to the organizer you made only a little bigger. It is hard to see in the pictures but do those voids have a small funnel shape to them?


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## rob3232 (Jul 25, 2013)

Treecycle Hardwoods said:


> Hmm it does look like suckers how those pockets are in there. Because of the nature of a "sucker " they really have no anchors in a tree like a branch does. I have seen it where small burl clusters pop out at the point where they started growing in the tree and leave a void in the board/blank similar to the organizer you made only a little bigger. It is hard to see in the pictures but do those voids have a small funnel shape to them?



I do not see any funnel shape in the voids. If it is a sucker, do you think the voids would get larger as the tree grows? Just a question ? I thought it was birdseye but this is even better ( UNKNOWN )


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## Kevin (Jul 25, 2013)

Rogue metalaxyl agents attacked a weakened portion of the sub cambium layers of this stand of trees and triggered molecular epicormic core collapse in the second generation hatchlings. This resulted in callus tissue in the following generations which resulted in highly dense concentrations of micro lesions in the outer sap layer which manifested as vertical interlocking strati at the outer bark. 

Exactly the same as how with cosmic rays, showers of secondary particles penetrate high-energy protons and atomic nuclei caused by the neutral pion decay that supernovae emanate with a force of 624.15 GeV = 6.2415×1011 Joules per nano fizzle stix. This causes quantum fluctuations which create virtual particle pairs, except all of this is completely different with tree rays which have nothing at all to do with what I said in the first paragraph, and this one being even less sane. 

Or it just could be a natural phenomenon.


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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Jul 25, 2013)

It is hard to say ... sometimes they grow and die. Sometimes they grow for a while(getting bigger as they grow ) and then die. In either case sucker growth is a sign of an unhealthy tree. I would lean towards sucker growth as the source of the figure.

What ever caused the figure to be there it is some really cool stuff.


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## rob3232 (Jul 25, 2013)

Kevin said:


> Rogue metalaxyl agents attacked a weakened portion of the sub cambium layers of this stand of trees and triggered molecular epicormic core collapse in the second generation hatchlings. This resulted in callus tissue in the following generations which resulted in highly dense concentrations of micro lesions in the outer sap layer which manifested as vertical interlocking strati at the outer bark.
> 
> Exactly the same as how with cosmic rays, showers of secondary particles penetrate high-energy protons and atomic nuclei caused by the neutral pion decay that supernovae emanate with a force of 624.15 GeV = 6.2415×1011 Joules per nano fizzle stix. This causes quantum fluctuations which create virtual particle pairs, except all of this is completely different with tree rays which have nothing at all to do with what I said in the first paragraph, and this one being even less sane.
> 
> Or it just could be a natural phenomenon.



I just took a closer look. Didn't see any high -energy protons.? Is this stuff radioactive?? "Radioactive" Who was the band?" Wierd science??


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## phinds (Jul 26, 2013)

The thing that bothers me about the "sucker" theory is that these CLEARLY follow rays all the way into the tree and I don't get why the suckers would have started only where there were rays. Also, do these suckers manifest themselves at least several inches into the tree?

Rob do you know if they go any FURTHER than a few inches in? I can't tell 'cause that's all the depth I have (actually only an inch in my case).


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## Treecycle Hardwoods (Jul 26, 2013)

phinds said:


> The thing that bothers me about the "sucker" theory is that these CLEARLY follow rays all the way into the tree and I don't get why the suckers would have started only where there were rays. Also, do these suckers manifest themselves at least several inches into the tree?
> 
> Rob do you know if they go any FURTHER than a few inches in? I can't tell 'cause that's all the depth I have (actually only an inch in my case).



That is the thing that kept me from being 100% on the sucker theory. I am leaning that way but not 100% It is odd that is what appears to be going on. I had thought maybe it has something to do with the function of rays while the tree is still alive. If I have my science correct the rays take water/nutirents in and out of the tree rather than up and down. If the upper portions of the tree are malfunctioning the tree may have no other choice but to use the rays to hold onto life and produce some leaves for photosynthesis. :i_dunno::i_dunno:


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## rob3232 (Jul 26, 2013)

phinds said:


> The thing that bothers me about the "sucker" theory is that these CLEARLY follow rays all the way into the tree and I don't get why the suckers would have started only where there were rays. Also, do these suckers manifest themselves at least several inches into the tree?
> 
> Rob do you know if they go any FURTHER than a few inches in? I can't tell 'cause that's all the depth I have (actually only an inch in my case).



Sorry Paul, I only remember that I saved some 4/4 lumber for my boss. I don't remember how many boards or how deep this went into the log.


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