# curly maple advice



## sprucegum (Jul 31, 2013)

A question of you instrument makers. What is instrument quality curly maple? My reason for asking is I have a very large hollow rock maple log that is extremely curly on the butt. I suspect the weight of the big hollow tree made the grain curl since there was no support in the center of the tree. I have a mill and can get a precious few boards from the outside of this beast, but I really don't want to go to the bother unless there is a good pay back. I am sure I will ruin a half day for 50 bd ft or less. I am also looking for a little advice as to what usable sizes are. Thanks for taking time to read this Dave


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## jimmyjames (Jul 31, 2013)

Look at it as a worst case scenario, if that worst case scenario doesn't cover your expenses than I believe its not worth it, a lot of people greatly underestimate the work involved in milling,drying,surfacing and selling. I'm not sure if you have a mill but if you have to pay somebody too mill it then your probably going to get charged an hourly rate since the board footage won't cover they're costs, you'll probably have $100-$150 in milling fees and then drying, surfacing and then trying to find somebody that will pay top dollar for musical grade lumber, flee bay is jam packed full of nice lumber that people sell for cheap, its hard to compete with that. For me if I'm not going to double my money in am investment than its probably not worth it, unless I can justify some of the costs into just being a hobby and the fun is worth the cost?


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## Mike1950 (Jul 31, 2013)

Cut it into big chunks for the turners.......

Reactions: Like 1


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## Fret440 (Jul 31, 2013)

Depends on how the maker will use it. For drop tops, or electric guitar tops, you want book matched pieces 20"x8"x1/4" (or 5/8" for les Paul's). For acoustic guitars, you want clear wood (no knots or nothin'), and quarter sawn book matches 23&1/2"x9"x1" plus sides quarter sawn book matched 36"x5"x1/4". This would be enough for an archtop guitar. And since those go for $200 or better a set, if you can do it.... Just remember me and ship me a little for the info.  :dash2:

Jacob

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## sprucegum (Jul 31, 2013)

Fret440 said:


> Depends on how the maker will use it. For drop tops, or electric guitar tops, you want book matched pieces 20"x8"x1/4" (or 5/8" for les Paul's). For acoustic guitars, you want clear wood (no knots or nothin'), and quarter sawn book matches 23&1/2"x9"x1" plus sides quarter sawn book matched 36"x5"x1/4". This would be enough for an archtop guitar. And since those go for $200 or better a set, if you can do it.... Just remember me and ship me a little for the info.  :dash2:
> 
> Jacob


Because the tree is hollow anything I get will be flat sawn . The electric guitar tops would be a definite possibility. would it be best to saw it into thick cants to resaw when dry? What would a reasonable price for a highly figured set of 20 x 8 x 1/4 book matches? It will really cost me nothing except a little wear on the mill and my time to saw it. If I don't saw it I will Process it into firewood to heat my house.Thanks


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## sprucegum (Jul 31, 2013)

Mike1950 said:


> Cut it into big chunks for the turners.......


I will probably make a few turning blanks but I have quite a few drying already. I am just trying to diversify a little. That is the beauty of this site a great diversification of wood workers and a wealth of knowledge. I am pretty much a carpenter, cabinet maker type wood worker. Up until about a year ago I thought spalted was synonymous with spoiled. :lolol:

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## rob3232 (Jul 31, 2013)

sprucegum said:


> Fret440 said:
> 
> 
> > Depends on how the maker will use it. For drop tops, or electric guitar tops, you want book matched pieces 20"x8"x1/4" (or 5/8" for les Paul's). For acoustic guitars, you want clear wood (no knots or nothin'), and quarter sawn book matches 23&1/2"x9"x1" plus sides quarter sawn book matched 36"x5"x1/4". This would be enough for an archtop guitar. And since those go for $200 or better a set, if you can do it.... Just remember me and ship me a little for the info.  :dash2:
> ...


If the tree is hollow I would think you could cut some really nice quarter-sawn pieces?? Maybe not large enough for tops but for fingerboars and etc. Just trying to save from the burn pile.

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## sprucegum (Jul 31, 2013)

rob3232 said:


> sprucegum said:
> 
> 
> > Fret440 said:
> ...


I estimate there to be 3 - 5 inches of highly figured sound wood on the outside so from what little I know about guitars I guess it would make a bunch of finger boards. Because of the large diameter if I flat saw I will have no problem getting 8 or more inched of width. I expect I would end up with some quarter sawed narrow pieces by default. Thanks any information helps. I think I have myself talked into giving it a shot. If I can't sell it I can still burn it:rotflmao3:

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## jimmyjames (Jul 31, 2013)

sprucegum said:


> Fret440 said:
> 
> 
> > Depends on how the maker will use it. For drop tops, or electric guitar tops, you want book matched pieces 20"x8"x1/4" (or 5/8" for les Paul's). For acoustic guitars, you want clear wood (no knots or nothin'), and quarter sawn book matches 23&1/2"x9"x1" plus sides quarter sawn book matched 36"x5"x1/4". This would be enough for an archtop guitar. And since those go for $200 or better a set, if you can do it.... Just remember me and ship me a little for the info.  :dash2:
> ...



Flat swing will not show the curl figure very good, all really curly stuff is quarter sawn


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## sprucegum (Jul 31, 2013)

Flat sawn maple

[attachment=28563]

[attachment=28564]

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## sprucegum (Jul 31, 2013)

Picture in the lat post is some flat sawn rock maple pretty curly


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## Mike1950 (Jul 31, 2013)

:rotflmao3::rotflmao3: I totally understand- it was not that long ago I looked at it as poor firewood. :dash2::dash2: I also am flat worker. I have a lathe to keep some of the dust off of the floor. :rotflmao3::rotflmao3::rotflmao3::rotflmao3:

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike1950 (Jul 31, 2013)

Something is wrong I replied and got nothing.


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## DKMD (Jul 31, 2013)

jimmyjames said:


> Flat swing will not show the curl figure very good, all really curly stuff is quarter sawn



Hmmm... This has got me scratching my head. I'm not at all savvy about milling, but I think about the wood I've processed into turning blanks, and I've never noticed a difference between QS and flatsawn surfaces when it comes to the curly figure. I'm gonna have to start paying more attention to that kind of thing.


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## jimmyjames (Jul 31, 2013)

DKMD said:


> jimmyjames said:
> 
> 
> > Flat swing will not show the curl figure very good, all really curly stuff is quarter sawn
> ...



Heavy curl will show on flat sawn and quarter sawn but will be heavier on the quarter sawn face, on material that's not as curly the curl will probably not show in the flat sawn face and show on the quarter sawn face, 

I'm no expert but that's what I have come up with so far...


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## Fret440 (Aug 1, 2013)

If you can cut some 35"x3"x1" and quarter sawn, they will make great guitar necks. I like my necks to be quarter sawn rather than flat sawn. This makes them stronger and less prone to warping from the tension of the strings. Also, many makers will use quarter sawn necks for their more expensive guitars and flat sawn necks for their less expensive guitars.

Fwiw,

Jacob

Reactions: Like 1


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## jimmyjames (Aug 1, 2013)

Where'd all the posts go? Mikes and sprucgums posts have vanished.....


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## Mike1950 (Aug 1, 2013)

jimmyjames said:


> Where'd all the posts go? Mikes and sprucgums posts have vanished.....



Happened yesterday Jimmy- I replied to his post and nothing was there. I could go back and see it in my machine but it would not post- must be internet gremlin???? Or is that crazy Irishman pushin buttons again?? :dash2::dash2::dash2::dash2:


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## Kevin (Aug 1, 2013)

Are you positive some are missing? I looked at the mod logs and this thread has never been touched by anyone. You can look too Jim. 

While I'm typing I'll weigh in a little. I agree with qtr sawing in this case. Usually qtr sawing makes a lot of waste but if the log is fairly uniformly hollow then qtr sawing might be the way to go. You'd still have some waste but not as much. To minimize the waste some of it might be close to rift sawn or even rift itself but that's not so bad. 

As to the most curl coming from the qtr faces I cannot speak from milling experience with hard maple. I have milled enough curly stuff to say I have a little experience, but only with a small handfull of species. Mostly I have milled fbe and just about every single log that I mill has curl to some degree. I have also milled curly sycamore, pecan, and a lot of the erc especially the bigger ones have some degree os curl at the base due to compression. Just speaking about my own personal experience which admittedly is limited to the above, the curly faces seem to be essectially the same in flat sawn vs quarter and I have taken notice of this very thing more than once over the years looking to maximize the curl while milling. This is for fbe. But we have all seen the true fiddleback used by instrument makers so there can really be no argument that qtr sawn hard maple yields just about the tightest curl imaginable. But that's not to say flat sawn from those same logs wouldn't have shown the same curl because instrument makers universally build using quartersawn for stability, not to maximize curl. 

It's a good question because I don't know if hard maple tends to show more curl in the quarter or the flat. It would be easy enough to find out on a per log basis, and once you've sawn enough of them you might be able to say per species, and once you've sawn enough curly logs from different species you might be able to make a blanket statement . . . . :i_dunno:


YMMV


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## Mike1950 (Aug 1, 2013)

There definitely was a post that did not show up. Well at least the text did not. I went back and edited it and my text was there. I added something posted and again it was not there. It appears that spruce had the same problem.


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## Mike1950 (Aug 1, 2013)

It is still there when I edit.


admin testing


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## Mike1950 (Aug 1, 2013)

Strange- I copied- pasted and it did not come through again.


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## Kevin (Aug 1, 2013)

Yes this is officially weird. I can see it too whenever I use edit or reply to your post, but when I try to quote it in my own post here and preview it, it doesn't show up. There's something within the text that the software is rejecting. Gonna play around with it a little . . .


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## Kevin (Aug 1, 2013)

sprucegum said:


> Mike1950 said:
> 
> 
> > Cut it into big chunks for the turners.......
> ...


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## Kevin (Aug 1, 2013)

The problem seems to be with sprucegums posts and when you (Mike) quote them, it also masks your posts (and mine). Still playing with it . . .


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## Kevin (Aug 1, 2013)

I was able to keep everyones posts, but only by removing the quoted text from each of your posts. I have no idea why the software is hating on sprucegums particular post. Anyway everyone's posts are now in their . . . . posts. :i_dunno:

Just don't make any quotes from the previous posts just to be safe. . . .


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## Mike1950 (Aug 1, 2013)

Maybe it is a Vermont or N England thing!!! :rotflmao3::rotflmao3::rotflmao3:
If I see it again I will let you know..........


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## sprucegum (Aug 1, 2013)

Fret440 said:


> If you can cut some 35"x3"x1" and quarter sawn, they will make great guitar necks. I like my necks to be quarter sawn rather than flat sawn. This makes them stronger and less prone to warping from the tension of the strings. Also, many makers will use quarter sawn necks for their more expensive guitars and flat sawn necks for their less expensive guitars.
> 
> Fwiw,
> 
> Jacob


I sawed the hollow butt log off when I tried to move it with the tractor bucket it split length ways into three pieces two of them were worthless. The third has some potential. The good news is that I processed the junk into firewood and found that the curl goes all the way up the first log so I expect it to carry through into the next log which is fairly sound. I have three good logs in all that total well over 300 bd ft. Around 1/2 of that will be the brown heart wood which is considered low value for most uses but the white sap wood should not have many defects as there are no limbs on the logs. I took a few pictures of my highly figured firewood and I will post them this evening. I gotta go load logs now.Thanks for being helpful if I have a surplus of QS curly guitar necks I will send one your way.

Edit I guess this post worked hopefully the problem is solved or at least went away.


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## jimmyjames (Aug 1, 2013)

Even if its heartwood and is crazy curly there's still a use for it, when you book match a slab that has heartwood and sapwood its quite striking, a lot of guitar folk do that, it doesn't have to be all sapwood, some prefer it that way and some don't.


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## sprucegum (Aug 1, 2013)

jimmyjames said:


> Even if its heartwood and is crazy curly there's still a use for it, when you book match a slab that has heartwood and sapwood its quite striking, a lot of guitar folk do that, it doesn't have to be all sapwood, some prefer it that way and some don't.



Pictures of my firewood and logs

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## El Guapo (Jan 3, 2014)

sprucegum said:


> I sawed the hollow butt log off when I tried to move it with the tractor bucket it split length ways into three pieces two of them were worthless. The third has some potential. The good news is that I processed the junk into firewood and found that the curl goes all the way up the first log so I expect it to carry through into the next log which is fairly sound. I have three good logs in all that total well over 300 bd ft. Around 1/2 of that will be the brown heart wood which is considered low value for most uses but the white sap wood should not have many defects as there are no limbs on the logs. I took a few pictures of my highly figured firewood and I will post them this evening. I gotta go load logs now.Thanks for being helpful if I have a surplus of QS curly guitar necks I will send one your way.
> 
> Edit I guess this post worked hopefully the problem is solved or at least went away.



Hey Spruce, did you ever end up with any QS pieces of the curly maple from that log?


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## sprucegum (Jan 3, 2014)

Yes I did but the curl does not show in the QS grain. I put a couple of them in my over the wood furnace drying rack and cooked them to under 5% MC. I am making a couple of strum stick guitars for the grand children and a 3 string cigar box guitar for me. Given that I have no musical training and have been accused of not being able to carry a tune in a wheelbarrow it should be a interesting experience. My plan is to play for captive audiences such as mental institutions and prisons and ask them to pay me to stop.

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## El Guapo (Jan 3, 2014)

Spruce, I owe you some pictures of the last maple you sent me... unbelievable! Planed, went through the drum sander, belt sanded to 180 grit, orbital sanded to 330 grit, hit the live edge with my buddy's flap sander (pretty sure it runs on jet fuel), and let it soak up some mineral oil. It made an incredible cutting board!


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## sprucegum (Jan 4, 2014)

So what are you going to use for a cutting board? No way will anyone ever cut on that. Would love to see some pictures.


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## El Guapo (Jan 4, 2014)

I tried to take some pics with my cell phone, but it just doesn't capture the figure/curl in the board. I'll see if I can get some better pictures with my camera. It is a beauty! And the idea is to use one side for a cutting surface and keep the other side nice to use as a serving tray. That maple is like concrete though... I don't think it will get marked up too bad no matter how much it gets abused. If it loses it's luster, I'll just hit it with some 220 and 330 and reapply mineral oil. Should last for a VERY long time. If you ever need a testimonial on your maple, I'm your man!


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## sprucegum (Jan 4, 2014)

Rock Maple is about as hard as domestic hardwood gets and that curly grain came from the outer growth rings of a 200 year old tree. The growth rings are so tight in those old trees they are nearly impossible to count. I only saw the ones that die or blow over.


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## Guerra Cues (Mar 5, 2014)

While I do pool cues, players absolutely love cues with a good tone. Soft maple it will bad for instruments, even stabilized. I love hard rock maple, specially from Canada or the upper MI peninsula where I have a good supplier for birds eye, curly and straight grain. Then you have to look at ring count as well. Usually the higher the ring count the better the tone but thats not always 100% true.


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