# New Experience



## FLQuacker (Jan 23, 2021)

To many here, this ain't nutn....to a 60 yr old Florida boy, this was a real challenge. Hiking and backpacking the Shining Rock Wilderness area in NC last week. 6" of snow one night! That was quite the scene to wake to.

Reactions: Like 7 | Way Cool 7


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## DLJeffs (Jan 26, 2021)

I'm getting a little old too fully enjoy the snow but I still love getting out in fresh snow where there's no tracks. See any of these...came across this pair yesterday.

Reactions: Like 2 | Way Cool 3


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Jan 26, 2021)

Those are nice ones!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Wildthings (Jan 26, 2021)

youngsters with some great looking potentials

Reactions: Agree 1 | +Karma 1


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Jan 26, 2021)

I like that double drop

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mike Hill (Jan 27, 2021)

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> I like that double drop


Frames his ears very well! Wonder where he had those done!

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## DLJeffs (Jan 27, 2021)

We had a nice heavy 5 point hanging around last winter with a really wide spread, antlers came off nearly horizontal from his head. Haven't seen him this year. Across the highway on the golf course resort side where all the tourist condos are, the deer are so tame you can almost walk up and pet them. All does and fawns tho. The bucks are smarter than that. But there's plenty of space and food and their biggest risk is getting hit by a car (or for the fawns the coyotes). If they wander off into the BLM land all bets are off.


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## William Tanner (Jan 27, 2021)

Neat experience. You have more ambition than I do.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Mike Hill (Jan 27, 2021)

When I was transferred to Tennessee, let's just say, I did not know much about the state. In fact, when I moved here there were burnt orange ut bumper stickers everywhere! My first thought was that even though I moved a 1,000 miles away, still couldn't get away from them tea-sippers! Then someone told me. But I stray and digress! I was under the impression, since this was further north than San Antonio was, that there'd be snow everywhere. I bought snow tires for my Mazda RX-7 and mom gave me a pair of Hexcel cross-country skies. Needless to say, neither were ever used. I think the skis are still boxed up in the attic - almost 43 years later. I've done a lot during our "snows" - even fly-fished - now that was a hoot! - really it was - and was mighty good fishing!!! But still on my bucket list is to camp and hike in heavy snow - just to say I could and did!

Reactions: Like 3


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## Gdurfey (Jan 27, 2021)

i took a friend to a great winter get away and we rented snow shoes. She was not against snow, but doing something outside in snow was not on her list. Needless to say we had a great time!!! She loved it. Stepped off the trail, combo hiking/cross country ski groomed, and she sunk, fell over and all I did was laugh and take pictures...…………..sort of looked like she was okay, but she sunk!!! And she laughed. One of the greatest experiences I have ever had for a simple hour or so. This was up by Silverton, CO; so you can imagine the beauty!!

Reactions: Great Post 1


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## DLJeffs (Jan 27, 2021)

Wildthings said:


> youngsters with some great looking potentials


@Wildthings Barry - do you know, will a buck's antlers develop in the same pattern year after year? For example, will that one grow downward tines next year as well? Or is each year a totally new pattern?


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## Mike Hill (Jan 27, 2021)

Deer Antlers are weird things. Had a great uncle who was a Game Biologist with the Texas Parks and Wildlife who studied antler development. And my sister's BIL raised massive antlered deer and sells the .....umm....seed shall we say. He had one he called Methuselah that dropped my jaw. Nope, don't have a pic - lost in a phone changeover, but will try to get one. 

Genes play a lot in development of normal racks. If the buck was a spike, it will probably always be a spike or a fork. If he has a good rack, it will likely grow a bigger rack the next year until his health fails - usually in the general same pattern, but with more points and bigger structure - if not damaged. 

The wildly strange racks - non-typicals are sometimes the result of some sort of bone injury, If on the back left leg, the right antler will be affected - It will be deformed, but only until the injury heals, then it will develop normally. If the back right leg is injured, the left antler will be affected. 

Now, according to Uncle Joe, damage to the ...uhemmm..... dangles can cause some massively non-typicals - I know it would with me! Also damage to the peticle can cause deformations.

My biggest buck had a droptine on one side and a main point that went up about halfway, flattened, split, and was bent backwards. The main point was probably damaged in velvet. My great uncle knew of some bucks that grew the same damage every year - so my buck's could have been damaged that summer or even a summer before. However, most velvet damage does not show up the next year. Perhaps infections affect the ones who grow the damaged again.

Drop tines are a different thing. It can be from damage, but they are definitely tied in with age. They usually don't show up until 5 years. Not many bucks younger that 5 have droptines - almost none less than 3. Is that because of age or because an older buck is more likely to have some damage is not known. There have been some, especially in Mississippi of all places, where a buck at 5 years will develop a droptine. The next year he has a droptine, but on the other side, and by the age of 8 he has droptines on both sides.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## William Tanner (Jan 27, 2021)

Got to say Mike this is fascinating. I never would have guessed how this all works.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Wildthings (Jan 27, 2021)

Mike has some good *points *(<--see what I did there hehe) above. Most deer antlers develop due to their genetics unless affected as *pointed *out above. There's lots of conversation about whether a spike will always be a spike. Kerr WMA did some intensive research on just that. *Read it here**.* That double droptine buck will most likely have some sort of non-typical protrusions coming off his main beams every years from here on out. Of course what will really affect it is nutrition and drought. Protein is what really helps put the antler mass on. But the deer needs some age to get the results of the protein. That's some really great racks on those young deer. Usually youngster's protein and growth goes into body growth in the early years and once the body matures then more of the protein is directed to antler growth.

There's a forum I follow pretty closely just to see the pictures of his year round protein fed whitetails. The body size equal Canadian wts and the racks well good golly. I think they have 30k acres in South Texas and no it is not high fenced. It really shows what a animal can produce with the abundance of protein even if his genetics are the best. Here's a couple pictures







This deer weighed 305 lbs

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Way Cool 1


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## Gdurfey (Jan 27, 2021)

Wildthings said:


> Mike has some good *points *(<--see what I did there hehe) above. Most deer antlers develop due to their genetics unless affected as *pointed *out above. There's lots of conversation about whether a spike will always be a spike. Kerr WMA did some intensive research on just that. *Read it here**.* That double droptine buck will most likely have some sort of non-typical protrusions coming off his main beams every years from here on out. Of course what will really affect it is nutrition and drought. Protein is what really helps put the antler mass on. But the deer needs some age to get the results of the protein. That's some really great racks on those young deer. Usually youngster's protein and growth goes into body growth in the early years and once the body matures then more of the protein is directed to antler growth.
> 
> There's a forum I follow pretty closely just to see the pictures of his year round protein fed whitetails. The body size equal Canadian wts and the racks well good golly. I think they have 30k acres in South Texas and no it is not high fenced. It really shows what a animal can produce with the abundance of protein even if his genetics are the best. Here's a couple pictures
> 
> ...


that second one, that thing is huge!! And I get to cross paths with some muleys up here.......


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## Wildthings (Jan 27, 2021)

Yeppers here another picture of it

Reactions: Like 2 | Sincere 1


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## Mr. Peet (Jan 27, 2021)

DLJeffs said:


> I'm getting a little old too fully enjoy the snow but I still love getting out in fresh snow where there's no tracks. See any of these...came across this pair yesterday.View attachment 201171



Seeing any white tails here with antlers this time of year is rare. As for the spike comment Mike had, Penn State deer pens did that study 40 years ago with white tails and found most spikes were regular racks by year 3. That was one of the reasons PA game commission put antler restrictions into play 20 years ago. The result, many more big racks being harvested % wise compared to the past, and trophy poaching has gone down. Last I knew, they needed to have 3 legal points on one side to harvest. Spikes are still legal game for youth, seniors and military.

On a side note, we now have a group of white tails that have black hair on the edge of their tails. Kind of cool.


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## Mr. Peet (Jan 27, 2021)

Wildthings said:


> Yeppers here another picture of it



Have not seen that size since Maine.


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## barry richardson (Jan 27, 2021)

FLQuacker said:


> To many here, this ain't nutn....to a 60 yr old Florida boy, this was a real challenge. Hiking and backpacking the Shining Rock Wilderness area in NC last week. 6" of snow one night! That was quite the scene to wake to.View attachment 200976View attachment 200977





FLQuacker said:


> To many here, this ain't nutn....to a 60 yr old Florida boy, this was a real challenge. Hiking and backpacking the Shining Rock Wilderness area in NC last week. 6" of snow one night! That was quite the scene to wake to.View attachment 200976View attachment 200977


Looks like a hoot Wayne, hope you were prepared for that show gearwise

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike Hill (Jan 28, 2021)

Mr. Peet said:


> Seeing any white tails here with antlers this time of year is rare. As for the spike comment Mike had, Penn State deer pens did that study 40 years ago with white tails and found most spikes were regular racks by year 3. That was one of the reasons PA game commission put antler restrictions into play 20 years ago. The result, many more big racks being harvested % wise compared to the past, and trophy poaching has gone down. Last I knew, they needed to have 3 legal points on one side to harvest. Spikes are still legal game for youth, seniors and military.
> 
> On a side note, we now have a group of white tails that have black hair on the edge of their tails. Kind of cool.


That's an interesting study. May be different in the Hill Country of Texas. I took two spikes/forks and dad took one off of Dad's Aunt's ranch and they were about 5 years old according to Uncle Joe - which confirmed his data. As Barry stated, nutrition, especially protein has a lot of effect on antler development. Perhaps the Penn state deer had a better supply of protein than the Hill Country deer. The ranch did not feed deer in any way and did not have any crops on it - strictly a cattle ranch. The Texas Hill Country is pretty, but not does not have an overabundance of deer mast even in the best of times. Dad and I were unofficial herd managers at the ranch - allowed to hunt as long as we took spikes and does (over-population). This is a 20,000 acre ranch so there were a number of spikes and small deer to cull.

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## Mike Hill (Jan 28, 2021)

One of the bucks raised for seed by my Sis's BIL. His name is Mesquite. This is good genetics! and good feeding. This is not Methuselah, he's bigger and it's been a few years since I've seen him - so not even sure he is still alive. Trying to find out.

Reactions: EyeCandy! 1 | Way Cool 2


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Jan 28, 2021)

That's a baby.  





NOT!!!


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## eaglea1 (Jan 28, 2021)

These were just passing thru the back yard this morning. No horns though, but cool to see again.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 3


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Jan 28, 2021)

Some good eatin' right there

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gdurfey (Jan 28, 2021)

Mike Hill said:


> One of the bucks raised for seed by my Sis's BIL. His name is Mesquite. This is good genetics! and good feeding. This is not Methuselah, he's bigger and it's been a few years since I've seen him - so not even sure he is still alive. Trying to find out.
> View attachment 201241


Incredible!!!


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## Wildthings (Jan 28, 2021)

Mike Hill said:


> One of the bucks raised for seed by my Sis's BIL. His name is Mesquite. This is good genetics! and good feeding. This is not Methuselah, he's bigger and it's been a few years since I've seen him - so not even sure he is still alive. Trying to find out.
> View attachment 201241


Hey Mike where is Mesquite located? PM if you don't want to publicize it. I may know that guy


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## Wildthings (Jan 28, 2021)

Wildthings said:


> Hey Mike where is Mesquite located? PM if you don't want to publicize it. I may know that guy


Close but no cigar




Same deer as above with a different view of the head...not Mesquite

Reactions: Way Cool 2


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## Mike Hill (Jan 28, 2021)

Wildthings said:


> Hey Mike where is Mesquite located? PM if you don't want to publicize it. I may know that guy


I really don't know. I've only seen pics. But I would suspect in the I-35 corridor maybe around the Canyon area.

Reactions: Like 1


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