# Boring Bar



## Sprung (Oct 28, 2017)

I'm currently getting started on a run of coffee mugs. I've used my @woodtickgreg 1/2" bar carbide rougher in the past to hollow them out, but, honestly, it's a little harrowing getting down toward the bottom of the mug with it and having the tool extend about 7 1/2" off the tool rest. I've made it work with careful attention and a light cut, but I'm looking for the right tool for the job - a boring bar. Looking for something 3/4" diameter on a tight budget. Am open to making my own, if someone can direct me to a good tutorial. Also would not mind if it's able to take a small carbide cupped cutter like @TimR has on the hollowing tools he makes. Or, if not a cupped carbide cutter, to know what HSS cutters to use, though I have very little experience turning with HSS.

So, any good, but cheap, sources for a boring bar? Good tutorial on making my own - and what kind of steel to use? Someone have one they don't need or have one that they make that they're willing to trade for wood or finished pen(s) or stabilizing services?


----------



## TimR (Oct 28, 2017)

Matt, quick and dirty boring bar by drilling a 1/4" diam hole on the bottom of the bar, in line with the axis, and/or drill across the bottom at about 45 degree angle. Drill and tap for a grub screw. The 1/4" hole is just a touch smaller than diameter of 3/16" HSS square tools, available any metal working supply house. Assuming you'll mount the bar in a hollowing rig, though I've seen folks use braided water tubing for a quasi handle.
I have several carbide variants you can use in place of HSS, if needed. See this thread.

Looking around for decent boring bar threads. Kinda depends on whether you intend to manhandle it or make a hollowing rig. The hollowing rig would be a better long term. I have a 3/4" rig and could take some pics if you have access to someone to help cut and weld together. Won't be at shop for a couple days, but I suspect others have similar based on Jamieson rig design.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Sprung (Oct 28, 2017)

TimR said:


> Matt, quick and dirty boring bar by drilling a 1/4" diam hole on the bottom of the bar, in line with the axis, and/or drill across the bottom at about 45 degree angle. Drill and tap for a grub screw. The 1/4" hole is just a touch smaller than diameter of 3/16" HSS square tools, available any metal working supply house. Assuming you'll mount the bar in a hollowing rig, though I've seen folks use braided water tubing for a quasi handle.
> I have several carbide variants you can use in place of HSS, if needed. See this thread.
> 
> Looking around for decent boring bar threads. Kinda depends on whether you intend to manhandle it or make a hollowing rig. The hollowing rig would be a better long term. I have a 3/4" rig and could take some pics if you have access to someone to help cut and weld together. Won't be at shop for a couple days, but I suspect others have similar based on Jamieson rig design.



Great info - thank you, Tim! From your description of the bar, I can figure that out pretty easily. For the time being, I was planning to manhandle it and then maybe see about making a hollowing rig sometime - I don't weld and don't know anyone locally who does. My father does a little, though he lives 800 miles away. I would be interested in seeing pics of your rig whenever you have the chance - no hurry on that. I will add that whatever rig I might build would be mounted on a Jet 1221VS - I'm not running a big boy lathe yet.

And I forgot that you made the carbide tool holders for hollowing systems! Guess I hadn't thought of it as I hadn't looked into needing or having such a tool until now. I will be in touch about one, 1/4" diameter round shank, whenever I'm allowed to spend the money. Just signed on the line for a car two days ago, so cash is a little tight right now.

Is there any specific type of steel you recommend for the 3/4" bar or type of steel to avoid?


----------



## TimR (Oct 28, 2017)

Sprung said:


> Great info - thank you, Tim! From your description of the bar, I can figure that out pretty easily. For the time being, I was planning to manhandle it and then maybe see about making a hollowing rig sometime - I don't weld and don't know anyone locally who does. My father does a little, though he lives 800 miles away. I would be interested in seeing pics of your rig whenever you have the chance - no hurry on that. I will add that whatever rig I might build would be mounted on a Jet 1221VS - I'm not running a big boy lathe yet.
> 
> And I forgot that you made the carbide tool holders for hollowing systems! Guess I hadn't thought of it as I hadn't looked into needing or having such a tool until now. I will be in touch about one, 1/4" diameter round shank, whenever I'm allowed to spend the money. Just signed on the line for a car two days ago, so cash is a little tight right now.
> 
> Is there any specific type of steel you recommend for the 3/4" bar or type of steel to avoid?


Cold roll steel is typically fine and easily obtained, all I've used for mine. I would think for those coffee mug kits a 5/8" boring bar would be fine and you can usually find at Lowes or Home Depot, Tractor Supply...
Hot rolled ok, but I think I think the cold rolled is a little stronger and tougher.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


----------



## DKMD (Oct 28, 2017)

Something like this

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 3


----------



## Sprung (Oct 28, 2017)

TimR said:


> Cold roll steel is typically fine and easily obtained, all I've used for mine. I would think for those coffee mug kits a 5/8" boring bar would be fine and you can usually find at Lowes or Home Depot, Tractor Supply...
> Hot rolled ok, but I think I think the cold rolled is a little stronger and tougher.



I think I will go with 5/8" then - I know I can get that locally in cold roll, but haven't seen 3/4" in such stores before.

Thanks, Tim and Keller!


----------



## Schroedc (Oct 28, 2017)

@Sprung - if you still want to weld one up once there's some decent weather come visit and bring the steel. I've got a decent welder and I'm still pretty good at it. I've also got a 1221 to check fit on

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## Sprung (Oct 28, 2017)

Schroedc said:


> @Sprung - if you still want to weld one up once there's some decent weather come visit and bring the steel. I've got a decent welder and I'm still pretty good at it. I've also got a 1221 to check fit on



At the rate life has been going for me lately, my schedule might have an open day about September 2018. 

Thanks for the offer! If I have a free day in the schedule and there's some decent weather in the forecast, I'll have to see about heading over your way. I could use a day away anyways.


----------



## barry richardson (Oct 28, 2017)

Matt, I have some home made hollowers that might give you some ideas. I will get some pics and details tomorrow...

Reactions: Thank You! 1


----------



## Tony (Oct 29, 2017)

Matt, I was talking to @Kerry Weeks about this yesterday. Maybe he can help you out. Tony

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Nubsnstubs (Oct 29, 2017)

Matt, how large is the opening of the mugs? If it is large enough to get your tool rest into, a normal tool would work as you would only have a little tool overhang. If your lathe reversed, that would be a big plus.

Check out the "Ouch" thread by @Lou Currier. It has even more info............. Jerry (in Tucson)


----------



## Sprung (Oct 29, 2017)

Nubsnstubs said:


> Matt, how large is the opening of the mugs? If it is large enough to get your tool rest into, a normal tool would work as you would only have a little tool overhang. If your lathe reversed, that would be a big plus.
> 
> Check out the "Ouch" thread by @Lou Currier. It has even more info............. Jerry (in Tucson)



The ouch thread isn't what directly made me think of needing the right tool for the job for this - I had time to think while I was boring holes in the mug blanks yesterday - but safety is the reason to do this.

As far as the opening size, they start out at 2 1/8", drilled with a forstner bit. But the time I'm done, it's just about 3" at the opening and about 2 3/8" at the bottom of the hole. The tool rests I have do not fit in there - I've certainly tried. Just too tight of an opening for the ones I have. I run a Jet 1221VS, so, yes, it does reverse, which is a feature I haven't really explored using much yet on this lathe - I've not been able to put much time in on this lathe since upgrading to it.


----------



## TimR (Oct 29, 2017)

Another type of simple boring bar torque arresting...
http://www.lindsaylathetools.com/hollow/tutorials/


----------



## Mike Mills (Oct 29, 2017)

In reading this, the size of the bar is important but the second is the length. I don't do boring so I have no experience but others here can guide you. Per Stuart Batty you need 5" behind the rest for each 1" over the rest to maintain good control. At 8" deep you would need 40" behind or a total tool length of 48". Folks here can provide more first hand experience.


----------



## Schroedc (Oct 29, 2017)

Mike Mills said:


> In reading this, the size of the bar is important but the second is the length. I don't do boring so I have no experience but others here can guide you. Per Stuart Batty you need 5" behind the rest for each 1" over the rest to maintain good control. At 8" deep you would need 40" behind or a total tool length of 48". Folks here can provide more first hand experience.



For a handheld bar I can see that, I've used a captive D bar hollowing system with maybe 30 behind the rest and have gone 10 inches in with it. Another thing to keep in mind is how aggressive you are cutting, with a sharp tool and light cuts you can go deeper but it takes longer.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## barry richardson (Oct 29, 2017)

Here are a couple of tools I think would work great for your application, the first is 3/4 square bar stock. I rigged up a clamp on the drill press to drill a hole at aprox 45 degrees in the end. Made the hole all the way through and a little smaller than the 1/4" cutter, then squared up the hole enough for the cutter to fit with a jewelers file. All I had at the time was a 1/4-20 tap so that is the set screw size. I was always going to replace it some day with an allen grub screw, but no need really, I have used it to hollow hundreds of pieces. the bar is about 2 feet long, and 40" overall. I go up to a foot deep with it. I also have a version of this with a straight cutter, don't think you would need that as the forstner does the straight hollowing for you. I like the square stock for freehand cause it resist rolling. You could scale it down to meet your needs.


 
This is a different style an old timer welded for me, mainly designed for side hollowing. You could have Colin weld something similar, maybe oriented a bit different to suit your needs. I think it is made from 1/2 key stock. I believe Craft Supplies sells the fitting on the end. It is pretty slick, 3/16 cutter, and you can articulate it as needed..


----------



## Mike1950 (Oct 29, 2017)

I have been to some boring bars before- but that is why ya drink isn't it???

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 5


----------



## Woodchucker (Oct 29, 2017)

I have made several mugs thru the years. I used a 2 1/4 dia forstner bit with a 6 in shaft for the depth at the bottom. I have then used a bowl gouge to taper from the base to the top. Hope this helps.


----------



## Sprung (Oct 29, 2017)

Woodchucker said:


> I have made several mugs thru the years. I used a 2 1/4 dia forstner bit with a 6 in shaft for the depth at the bottom. I have then used a bowl gouge to taper from the base to the top. Hope this helps.



Oh, I've made them before too, but using a tool that is 24" long from cutting end to end of handle is a little short - when I've done it I've felt like a 36" long tool would be better suited for the task and whether bowl gouge or carbide tool, the longest tools I currently have are 24" long and not of truly sufficient diameter to be 7 to 7 1/2" off the tool rest getting that taper down to the bottom. Yeah, it can be done with other tools, like the bowl gouge you use or the carbide tool I've used, but I'm really looking for the appropriate and safest tool for the job to form that taper after drilling out.


----------



## Sprung (Oct 29, 2017)

Thank you, everyone, for the input!

I think I've settled on a direction. I'm going to go with a square bar like @barry richardson pictured, cutter on an angle. I like the cutters that @TimR has available, so I will probably outfit the bar to take both HSS and cupped carbide cutters - give them both a try and see which I like better for the task. I'm thinking 36" total length of the tool. I'm also looking at building a system of sorts - it would certainly add another level of safety beyond manhandling it.. Looking at all different sorts of systems and considering my intended use where I will be able to easily measure and get/have visual of what I'm doing, I am thinking that something along the lines of Carter's Hollow Roller will suit me well (not the XL version), especially keeping in mind that whatever setup I may build needs to be able to fit somehow onto a Jet 1221VS - I don't have a big boy lathe yet, and probably won't for a long while. I did come across a homemade setup or two that are very similar in nature to the Hollow Roller and look pretty easy to build and use. @Schroedc - I just might take you up on the offer for some welding sometime in the next couple weeks, depending on what the design looks like when completed.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## TimR (Oct 29, 2017)

Here's a thought to minimize how much hangs over the rest... http://www.ptreeusa.com/turn_tool_rest.html
Possible to use a heavy scraper with this perhaps.


----------



## Sprung (Oct 29, 2017)

TimR said:


> Here's a thought to minimize how much hangs over the rest... http://www.ptreeusa.com/turn_tool_rest.html
> Possible to use a heavy scraper with this perhaps.



Hmm, yeah, a T-bar tool rest could certainly be of great benefit. and mean I might not have to go with a boring bar or hollowing setup.

But after this thread I'm now hyped up about building a hollowing setup - not just a boring bar, lol. Having a hollowing setup can certainly open up other possibilities for me as I continue to look to learn new skills and try new things.

Who knows, maybe by this time next year y'all will have be turning hollow forms.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Schroedc (Oct 29, 2017)

Sprung said:


> Thank you, everyone, for the input!
> 
> I think I've settled on a direction. I'm going to go with a square bar like @barry richardson pictured, cutter on an angle. I like the cutters that @TimR has available, so I will probably outfit the bar to take both HSS and cupped carbide cutters - give them both a try and see which I like better for the task. I'm thinking 36" total length of the tool. I'm also looking at building a system of sorts - it would certainly add another level of safety beyond manhandling it.. Looking at all different sorts of systems and considering my intended use where I will be able to easily measure and get/have visual of what I'm doing, I am thinking that something along the lines of Carter's Hollow Roller will suit me well (not the XL version), especially keeping in mind that whatever setup I may build needs to be able to fit somehow onto a Jet 1221VS - I don't have a big boy lathe yet, and probably won't for a long while. I did come across a homemade setup or two that are very similar in nature to the Hollow Roller and look pretty easy to build and use. @Schroedc - I just might take you up on the offer for some welding sometime in the next couple weeks, depending on what the design looks like when completed.



Just let me know.


----------



## Sprung (Oct 30, 2017)

Schroedc said:


> Just let me know.



Thanks - will do. Going to be drawing up the design and a materials/cost list. Once I know when I'll have all the materials in hand by and what exactly I might need for welding work, we can set a day.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Karl_TN (Oct 30, 2017)

Sprung said:


> Thank you, everyone, for the input!
> ...I am thinking that something along the lines of Carter's Hollow Roller will suit me well (not the XL version), ...



Sprung, I just bought a used Carter Hollow Roller from a friend this weekend, but no time to try it out yet. The one thing that caught my eye is the lack of any welding on this system. Seems everything is put together with Set Screws. This might be the way to go if ,like me, you don't have a welder. I hear aluminum (i.e. maybe the blue parts??) can be cut using standard shop tools like lathe, table saw, band saw etc.. 

-Karl


----------



## Sprung (Oct 30, 2017)

Karl_TN said:


> Sprung, I just bought a used Carter Hollow Roller from a friend this weekend, but no time to try it out yet. The one thing that caught my eye is the lack of any welding on this system. Seems everything is put together with Set Screws. This might be the way to go if ,like me, you don't have a welder. I hear aluminum (i.e. maybe the blue parts??) can be cut using standard shop tools like lathe, table saw, band saw etc..
> 
> -Karl



Yeah, I had noticed that too, looking at the pics. I have a simpler version of the hollow roller in my mind and it's looking like I can do it without welding. Although, if I end up needing something welded, it could be a good excuse to visit Colin (and to check out @Don Ratcliff 's stash of Hawaiian woods.)


----------



## Don Ratcliff (Oct 30, 2017)

Sprung said:


> Yeah, I had noticed that too, looking at the pics. I have a simpler version of the hollow roller in my mind and it's looking like I can do it without welding. Although, if I end up needing something welded, it could be a good excuse to visit Colin (and to check out @Don Ratcliff 's stash of Hawaiian woods.)


If you go that route could you also check out the sawmill he has, perhaps move it closer to the garage or even run a few chunks through it...

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Schroedc (Oct 30, 2017)

Don Ratcliff said:


> If you go that route could you also check out the sawmill he has, perhaps move it closer to the garage or even run a few chunks through it...



Believe me, if he comes over I'll put him to work. I need my garage space back and really want to get this done. After the Crazy Don wood I have 800 pounds of burl I'd like to cut.

Reactions: Way Cool 1


----------



## Sprung (Oct 30, 2017)

Don Ratcliff said:


> If you go that route could you also check out the sawmill he has, perhaps move it closer to the garage or even run a few chunks through it...





Schroedc said:


> Believe me, if he comes over I'll put him to work. I need my garage space back and really want to get this done. After the Crazy Don wood I have 800 pounds of burl I'd like to cut.



Hey, if I make it over - I'd be happy to help run the mill while I'm there! (And can bring those chambers with too. And the Buckthorn I owe you from last year, now that it's dry.)


----------



## Karl_TN (Oct 30, 2017)

Sprung said:


> Yeah, I had noticed that too, looking at the pics. I have a simpler version of the hollow roller in my mind and it's looking like I can do it without welding. Although, if I end up needing something welded, it could be a good excuse to visit Colin (and to check out @Don Ratcliff 's stash of Hawaiian woods.)



Checked out the Hollow Roller tonight with a magnet. The blue parts are anodized aluminum and the remaining pieces (i.e. banjo post, rollers, adjustment plates on side) are steel. I had been waiting to find a decent welder at an auction for a low price that I could afford, but then got offered the Carter setup for a great price. At least now I can understand how something nice like this can be made without any welding skills. Best of luck on your design.
Maybe the best time to check out that stash is in the middle of the night when Colin goes on vacation.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Schroedc (Oct 30, 2017)

Karl_TN said:


> Maybe the best time to check out that stash is in the middle of the night when Colin goes on vacation.



I haven't gone on vacation in a few years and I can hit the driveway with my rifle from the bedroom.....

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Karl_TN (Oct 30, 2017)

Schroedc said:


> I haven't gone on vacation in a few years and I can hit the driveway with my rifle from the bedroom.....



Do you plan to throw that rifle at the driveway? Here I thought Minnesotans know how to use rifles.

Reactions: Funny 4


----------



## Schroedc (Oct 31, 2017)

Karl_TN said:


> Do you plan to throw that rifle at the driveway? Here I thought Minnesotans know how to use rifles.



Southern part of the state is shotgun zone....

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Sprung (Nov 17, 2017)

Just to follow up on this. Ended up not putting together my own setup. @Graybeard sent me a message and offered a hollowing setup to me for sale. Today we had a small meetup at @Schroedc 's shop between Colin, Dave, and myself - it was good to meet Dave and see Colin again - where I picked it up from Dave.

I'm really looking forward to putting this to use and hope to give it a first run this weekend sometime. Thank you again, Dave! And Thank you to you also, Colin, for having us at your shop today.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Way Cool 5


----------



## Tim Carter (Nov 19, 2017)

I use the Jamieson system for a lot of my hollow forms. However, it's not the greatest in tight neck and shoulder areas of a hollow form. My solution is the "h" tool. I copied this from one of the guys in my club and it works extremely well. The outrigger rests on the tool rest and keeps the tool from twisting and the angled cutter allows me to get into tight areas much better. It's cheap and easy to make-a 1/2" or 5/8" steel rod from Home Depot, a 3/16" HSS cutter with a grub screw to hold it in place, one simple weld to put the outrigger on the tool and a propane torch to heat and bend the rod to the necessary angles and then a nice long handle to allow me to hold the tool against my side.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Graybeard (Nov 25, 2017)

Good day was had by all. Hope it works well for you Matt and it was nice to meet you as well. Colin showed us a tool just like that. I think that's the design of the DWay hollowing tool as well.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Sprung (Nov 25, 2017)

Graybeard said:


> Good day was had by all. Hope it works well for you Matt and it was nice to meet you as well. Colin showed us a tool just like that. I think that's the design of the DWay hollowing tool as well.



And I've already put it to work! I am very happy with how it has worked on these mugs.

It was a good day and hopefully we can do it again sometime!

Reactions: Like 3 | Way Cool 3


----------

