# 1st bowl in progress



## SENC (Jul 21, 2014)

I already admired the talent exhibited by the bowl and HF experts here (including you, Tony), but my respect has risen 10x. Not only are you guys and gals talented, but patient, too!

I started my first bowl today - from the green olive blank I bought from Tom (@manbuckwal ). Granted, I don't think I have all the right tools, and certainly don't know how to use the ones I do have properly, but it took me forever just to get it roughed out. Perhaps I was being too light-handed.

I cut the blank (mostly) round on the bandsaw, then screwed a faceplate to it and went at it with a traditional roughing gouge. It took me a while to get it round, an I lost one chunk where there was a bark inclusion. Once round I started out with a spindle gouge, but gave that up after some major gouges in the blank. I moved to my mini carbide tools, which worked fairly well but took time due to being undersized... they also don't finish great (in my hands). Then I flipped it around and dug out the inside with my round carbide. It is currently 7.5" od and 6"id, and has been stuffed in a paper bag with shavings to dry. I think it took me over 4 hours to get it like this... with a few breaks to walk dogs, etc. - but did learn a good bit about lathe speed, etc. with blanks larger than call spindles.

I would welcome any comments, suggestions, tools, or tricks.

At any rate, following are some pics.

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## SENC (Jul 21, 2014)




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## SENC (Jul 21, 2014)



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## Sprung (Jul 21, 2014)

Henry, I can offer no advice - I've never turned a bowl. (I do hope to turn my first one later this summer, whenever I get a chance to see about making a jig to sharpen my bowl gouge, because I can't convince my wife that it's a necessary purchase she needs to fund.)

I will say that it looks good so far and that is an awesome chunk of wood! I hope it doesn't self-destruct while drying, because I'd love to see that piece finished!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Tclem (Jul 21, 2014)

Hahahahahahahahaha y'all don't need bowls in NC. Y'all use ya hands. Lol. Looking good and keep it up. I am a little afraid of how you are holdin that tenon. Bowl may end up flying across the room when you get a good catch but other than that it looks good. Tenon is a good size. To many time ( and I've done it ) tenons are to small IMO. I use a Doug Thompson 5/8" bowl gouge start to finish. Sometimes use a round nose scrapper in the inside. Got rid of carbide. Doesn't get the smooth cut a traditional gouge gets IMO. But again bowl looks good now send me all of your call blanks now that you are a bowl turner

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## SENC (Jul 21, 2014)

Yep, @Sprung , it is an awesome piece of wood Tom sent me. I kind of regretted turning it and not cutting it up to turn it into something I know how to make look good - and also regret a little not making my first go around on a piece of wood I don't like as much. But, you only live once! And I just couldn't keep my hands off that piece.

Now for the mystery. For some strange reason I've had a craving for martinis all afternoon - and I don't even drink them!

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## Schroedc (Jul 21, 2014)

Looking good, my first bowl ended up in pieces. My only recommendation, concern, etc. would be to look at a different set of jaws for that chuck as I'd worry a little about how securely it's held, plus big Cole jaws like that could be a knuckle buster.

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## SENC (Jul 21, 2014)

Ok, that is 2 votes for different jaws. Talk to me about what I need. The chuck is a hurricane 4"


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## Sprung (Jul 21, 2014)

SENC said:


> I kind of regretted turning it and not cutting it up to turn it into something I know how to make look good - and also regret a little not making my first go around on a piece of wood I don't like as much. But, you only live once! And I just couldn't keep my hands off that piece



As long as it's not a break the bank piece of wood, sometimes I think it can be good to try new things on nicer, or at least somewhat nicer, pieces of wood because you don't want to have to toss a nice chunk of wood in the burn pile, so you hopefully think out your steps more and take more time to make sure you're approaching things the best way.

That said, you better send me all your wood before you continue in your craziness and risk destroying anything really nice.


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## manbuckwal (Jul 21, 2014)

Lookin good Henry! Olive has a very nice scent to it when you turn it . That piece sure has a lot of color and figure in it and will make for a real nice bowl when its finished. Would've made some real nice calls too.........

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## elnino (Jul 22, 2014)

yeah i think you are challenging yourself using a piece that is that figured and with voids. Some firewood might have been better but now that it survived you can practice for a year while it drys.

tools to use
use the dovetail jaws. that is fine for low speeds but would be dangerous at 1,000 rpms. 
don't use a traditional? roughing gouge on bowls you are going to break it. the tool is too weak at the handle.
Use a 5/8diameter bowl gouge. i like V but that is just me. One tool is all you need esp to rough out bowls.


I would watch the Mike Mahoney bowl basics dvd. try to borrow it or rent it. if you buy it i think Mike Mahoney sells 3DVDs for 60 shipped but i might be wrong.

And Lastly be safe. I'm glad it took you so long! Take it slow until you are comfortable.

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## DKMD (Jul 22, 2014)

Wrong jaws and wrong tools, but a nice looking result. 

I agree with the dovetail suggestion, but you could also use a glue block and your faceplate. 

I also agree with the bowl gouge suggestions... I've got a couple, but my favorite is a 1/2" Thompson V.

Lots of good DVD makers including Mahoney, Clewes, Grumbine, and Bosch... I'm probably forgetting at least as many who are just as good. Let me know if you want to borrow a couple... I'm pretty fair on the rental rate!

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## Tim Carter (Jul 22, 2014)

Olive is beautiful and I love to turn it but I think you're going to find that it moves and cracks as it dries. You have left the sides thick enough so you should be able to remount the bowl and true it up after it dries. I'd use a different set of jaws, not Cole jaws when you remount it. The wood will be much harder and the Cole jaws will not hold it. Any cracks that don't turn out with the final cuts can be filled. I like to use malachite with olive.

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## PhoenixWoodDesigns (Jul 22, 2014)

Chalk up another vote for needing different jaws. Using cole jaws to hold a tennon is pretty dangerous, and cole jaws should only be used at low rpms (it will usually say on the cole jaws, but mine specifically say not to exceed 600 or 800 rpm, I have to look at it again.) I would suggest 2" jaws as a good starting point, as you can use that for just about anything bowl-wise.

As for tools, I would suggest getting a bowl gouge. You can turn an entire bowl with nothing but a bowl gouge, as it has a number of different types of cuts you can make with it that include roughing, general turning, and finishing. I would not reccommend the use of a spindle gouge on a a bowl. They are not designed for that kind of abuse. I've read safety concerns somewhere about using spindle gouges on bowls, but I can't recall where. Carbide cutters are another option, but once you get the hang of a bowl gouge it becomes your best friend.

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## Tclem (Jul 22, 2014)

And Henry. Even as awesome as I am  coke jaws were my first set of jaws. I was turning a hard hard hard dry dry dry pecan bowl when I had my catch. So even the greats such as I have tried those cole jaws. If you had nova chucks I could send you some jaws good buddy

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## barry richardson (Jul 22, 2014)

Nice piece of wood so far Henry. In my experience, an olive rough-out that thick will certainly crack when drying. I hope yours proves me wrong. You picked about the orneriest wood there is for making bowls and HFs for your first go, a bold move sir

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## Mike1950 (Jul 22, 2014)

Boil the crap out of it.


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## shadetree_1 (Jul 22, 2014)

Like the looks of that blank and love the smell of Olive.


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## JR Custom Calls (Jul 22, 2014)

All that's left to do is take a pic of you holding the bowl while sitting in a pile of shavings in a pair of coveralls


Looks great. Awesome wood. Will this bowl quack?

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## SENC (Jul 22, 2014)

Par for the course for me, Barry, picking the worst possible way to start!


barry richardson said:


> Nice piece of wood so far Henry. In my experience, an olive rough-out that thick will certainly crack when drying. I hope yours proves me wrong. You picked about the orneriest wood there is for making bowls and HFs for your first go, a bold move sir


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## Mike Mills (Jul 22, 2014)

That's going to be a nice bowl.

I agree with other that cole jaws are Not the way to go. Sorta like holding a baseball bat with your finger tips rather than wrapping you hands around it. Cole jaws are normally used to clean up the base after all other turning is done.
I have an HCT100 also and I would go with the standard jaws in a recess or the larger jaws with a tenon for rough turning. You can always trim a larger tenon down to your smaller jaw size for the final turning.

Staying with the rule-of-thumb I would have turned it down to about 3/4" thickness (10%).
Did you place it in a paper bag? I anchor seal the exterior and rim and then into a bag with no shavings.
There are lots of methods for drying but most entail somehow sealing the exterior.

Here is a link to Stuart Batty videos and he has two or three on chucks, recesses, tenons/spigots.
http://vimeo.com/woodturning/videos/page:1/sort:alphabetical/format:thumbnail

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## SENC (Jul 22, 2014)

Mike1950 said:


> Boil the crap out of it.


Turning advice from Mike???

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## Mike1950 (Jul 22, 2014)

SENC said:


> Turning advice from Mike???




NOPE- drying advice- I have used it on plum and olive. Dean Jordan uses it a lot- he has a thread here with a home made steamer. My turning advise is buy stock in paper mills- they can use the chips you make.

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## NYWoodturner (Jul 22, 2014)

Henry - you have big stones for a wooden cube.  the cole jaws are no good for anything more than 600 RPM. If you went faster than that you are a lucky man. If you didn't and got those results you are a talented and tough SOB. I turned my first bowl 100% with a roughing gouge because I didn't know any better. It was like hand to hand combat. 
Keep pressing forward my friend. It only gets easier!

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## SENC (Jul 22, 2014)

Actually, 600 was as high as I got... but not because of the jaw rating that I didn't know existed (do you folks actually read the instructions and warnings that come with your tools?). I wasn't comfortable going faster with the tools I had - they were telling me not to be any stupider than I was already being!

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## elnino (Jul 22, 2014)

the safety rule is with a good tenon(this is just as important as using the correct jaws). so the rule is the diameterxspeed shouldn't exceed 9,000. so if you have a 10inch bowl dont go over 900. 20inch bowl 450. 

that is of course something 1/3 diameter if shallow or deeper you can adjust the high limit accordingly.

Do you know about good tenons?

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## SENC (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks, @elnino . No, tell me about good tenons.


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## APBcustoms (Jul 22, 2014)

My first bowl for in the palm of my hand I've only don't one big bowl and it was cocobolo talk about hell!!!


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## elnino (Jul 22, 2014)

A good tenon is at the correct angle and flat on the bottom as well as the area that touches the front of the jaws. the tenon should not reach the bottom of the jaws either. the critical part is the flush face and the jaws gripping. also the size should be about 40% when coring or doing deep bowls.

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## Tclem (Jul 22, 2014)

Henry please start turning more bowls and give away all of your game call stock so I can cut it up into pen and hair stick blanks.

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## Mike Mills (Jul 23, 2014)

This is the way I make my tenons/recesses.


 



Stuart Batty goes into extreme detail of how/why.














I did like Scott also and used a SRG on my first bowl or six.  Lots to learn.

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## SENC (Jul 23, 2014)

This is tremendous assistance, guys, may thanks! You've gotten me excited about it again, so I may have to pull a big chunk of walnut I got from @jimmyjames a while back for future call stock and gor for a second round (after acquiring the right jaws and a bowl gouge, of course).

@manbuckwal - since the consensus is that my beautiful chunk of olive is likely to self-destruct, please be on the lookout for another!


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## GeauxGameCalls (Jul 23, 2014)

APBcustoms said:


> My first bowl for in the palm of my hand I've only don't one big bowl and it was cocobolo talk about hell!!!


English Austin!

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## GeauxGameCalls (Jul 23, 2014)

Tclem said:


> Henry please start turning more bowls and give away all of your game call stock so I can cut it up into pen and hair stick blanks.


Here goes his manliness again. Henry if he keeps up he will be shaving his toes! ...or making hair sticks for them.

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## Tclem (Jul 23, 2014)

GeauxGameCalls said:


> English Austin!


FIT in his hand. Austin has turned some small bowls

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## GeauxGameCalls (Jul 23, 2014)

Tclem said:


> FIT in his hand. Austin has turned some small bowls


Oh. Gotcha. This Cajun can't dissect stuff very well!


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## APBcustoms (Jul 23, 2014)

I use my phone for internet and it likes to change my words on me 


GeauxGameCalls said:


> English Austin!


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## GeauxGameCalls (Jul 23, 2014)

I use mine too but made it a habit to check my spelling for the same reason! Haha


APBcustoms said:


> I use my phone for internet and it likes to change my words on me

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## duncsuss (Jul 23, 2014)

Mike Mills said:


> This is the way I make my tenons/recesses.


This is true for jaws that are themselves dovetailed. Some jaws (such as the Talon and several others) are designed to work with a straight tenon, not dovetailed -- you might have to read the instructions _(perish the thought)_ to be sure what your manufacturer recommends for your specific jaw set.

(The part about "not bottoming out" in the jaws, and having a square shoulder for the jaws' front face to press against is true in all cases.)

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## kweinert (Jul 23, 2014)

I believe the SB videos talk about this, but the comment about the size of the tenon/recess is right on. Look at the end of your chuck when the jaws are in. When they're firmly gripping the tenon/recess they should form a perfect circle. If you make it too large then you're only gripping the tenon by the edges of the jaws and not the entire surface. This gives you 8 points of contact. A too large recess is even worse as you'll only be making contact in 4 places.

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## duncsuss (Jul 23, 2014)

kweinert said:


> If you make it too large then you're only gripping the tenon by the edges of the jaws and not the entire surface. This gives you 8 points of contact. A too large recess is even worse as you'll only be making contact in 4 places.



Yes, I forgot this -- I'd even make a SketchUp diagram to show the concept ... here's an exaggerated view of what happens when the tenon is larger than the "natural diameter" of the jaws:

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## SENC (Jul 23, 2014)

Wow, Stuart Batty is certainly thorough!

On my way to the mountains today (picking up daughter from camp), I stopped in at a Woodcraft in Charlotte to pick up some carbide tips for my woodtick. I can usually get out of these places relatively unscathed since the store employees are frequently less than knowledgeable and/or helpful. Unfortunately, as I was looking at bowl gouges (thanks to my helpful WB friends), a particulrly helpful and knowledgeable old gent came to check on me and help. If we had of been discussing flatwork instead of turning, I would have thought it was Mike.  At any rate, I walked out with not just carbide tips but a 1/2" hss bowl gouge and a nova titan chuck that had been previously opened and returned and was a really good deal, particularly after the 15% nova chuck sale that starts on Friday and my new friend was willing to give me, So, between all of your help, Stuart Batty, some videos another WB friend is sending me, and Mike' woodturning alter ego at WC, I may become a bowl-turner yet.

Sorry, Tony, I still like callmaking, so no blanks for you.

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## Mike Mills (Jul 25, 2014)

SENC said:


> Wow, Stuart Batty is certainly thorough!



Yep, sometimes excruciatingly so. Whether a person agrees with everything presented at least nothing is left to the imagination.
Congrats on the Titan and the other tools* *. With your 2024 there should be nothing you can't tackle.


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## MikeMD (Aug 3, 2014)

Well, you've gotten some good advice. So, I'll do my best not to just reiterate it all.

What I will say is that you got a very nice shape on the outside of the bowl for your first. Most people make much steeper sides on their first attempt.

And I know this won't make you feel any better, but for us bowl turners, there isn't much patience in a 7.5" bowl...that would take most of us 10-20 minuteto rough out. :cool2:


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## SENC (Aug 3, 2014)

MikeMD said:


> Well, you've gotten some good advice. So, I'll do my best not to just reiterate it all.
> 
> What I will say is that you got a very nice shape on the outside of the bowl for your first. Most people make much steeper sides on their first attempt.
> 
> And I know this won't make you feel any better, but for us bowl turners, there isn't much patience in a 7.5" bowl...that would take most of us 10-20 minuteto rough out. :cool2:

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## SENC (Saturday at 7:19 PM)

So, when I posted a couple months ago about my first bowl, that wasn't exactly accurate. Maybe the first bowl I started with correct tools, and definitely the first I finished.

I'd all but forgotten this thread and this bowl until I opened up a paper sack I'd stashed away. 












Then I hunted assuming I'd started a thread at some point, and finally found this one... over 8 years old! Crazy to read it and see how I attempted it... and quite funny to see a few similar advisors as in my more recent thread, along with similar advice to watch SB!

As you can see above, it stayed mostly round but with a good number of cracks - as predicted by several - but I thought solid enough I could turn it a bit further so with a jam chuck and a live center in the tailstock and went at it, starting with turning a proper dovetail tenon. I didn't go too thin, as a couple of the cracks proved to be quite substantial... but I think it came out OK. It needs a final sanding and a finish, not sure what I'm going to do, yet. Will try not to wait another 8 years.

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## SENC (Saturday at 7:20 PM)

After final turning...

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## Nature Man (Saturday at 7:59 PM)

SENC said:


> After final turning...
> View attachment 235993View attachment 235994View attachment 235995View attachment 235996View attachment 235997


Nothing like a hidden treasure! And the discussions with 2 generations of WB folks! Fun! Chuck

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## duncsuss (Saturday at 9:15 PM)

Nice! Amazing what you can find buried away in old paper bags

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## SENC (Sunday at 7:49 AM)

Nature Man said:


> Nothing like a hidden treasure! And the discussions with 2 generations of WB folks! Fun! Chuck


You might not have noticed that @Mike1950 commented in the thread, so automatically 3 generations!  

AND, he gave turning advice so that deserves a little extra credit, I think.

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## Mike1950 (Sunday at 9:00 AM)

SENC said:


> You might not have noticed that @Mike1950 commented in the thread, so automatically 3 generations!
> 
> AND, he gave turning advice so that deserves a little extra credit, I think.


Ya gotta repeat stuff fir pups- reading comprehension sometimes is low. 
NOPE- drying advice- I have used it on plum and olive. Dean Jordan uses it a lot- he has a thread here with a home made steamer. My turning advise is buy stock in paper mills- they can use the chips you make.
ring/wind shake is more wood advise- bad stuff especially for spinners. The planer hates it also....

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