# Getting started?



## Mabren2 (Jan 15, 2016)

I've been turning for a little less than a year. Mostly turkey calls with a few bowls here and there. I would like to start playing around with pens, but don't really know where to start. Since I am starting from scratch I feel like my best option might be to get some kind of starter kit. I was wondering if some of you with experience might have some insight on good kits to look for? I've seen some that come with presses, vises, etc., but I'm not sure if those are necessary items or not? Also, if you don't feel a kit is the way to go, what are the necessary gadgets I need to get started. I have some blank material laying around, so I don't have to get a kit that comes with blanks (fine with me if it does though), and I don't need any of the turning tools that some kits come with. This will just be another addition to a hobby for me, so I don't need to go crazy overkill, but I am a fan of buying quality, so any insight on the best brands, etc. will be appreciated. Thanks in advance for any suggestions you may have!


----------



## ironman123 (Jan 15, 2016)

Sent you a pm. Transfer punches are good to have.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


----------



## ripjack13 (Jan 15, 2016)

I personally like the slimlines and the bolt action bullet pens. I find more people gravitate towards them more than the others I've made. A couple of the seirras are cool too. But maybe start with the bolts? Those are easy peasy and you can use up your smaller scrap.
Do you have enough blanks? I could send out a box if you want.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


----------



## ripjack13 (Jan 15, 2016)

http://woodbarter.com/threads/a-visual-catalog-of-various-pen-styles-available.19085/

Look there too. It'll give you a visual of what you may like to try too...

Reactions: Thank You! 1


----------



## Schroedc (Jan 15, 2016)

What I did when I started out was the rockler slimline starter kit. Gives you a mandrel and a few other tools and a few kits but it's kinda spendy in my pinion and for the money you could get what you need and then some. Do you have a dead center? If so I'd suggest getting the bushings to turn between centers and doing bolt action or Sierra style pens. If you want to go with a mandrel the adjustable mandrel from psi or woodcraft works just fine. For assembly a press is nice but a c clamp works as well if you pad the faces. I've even used one of the Irwin quick clamps to press stuff together. The other thing you'll want is an end mill to square the blanks up after drilling and tubing them unless you have a disk sander to that.

This gives me an idea for an instructional thread. I'll put one together tomorrow night after I get back from a bunch of basketball games.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Patrude (Jan 15, 2016)

If you want a good look at beginner and advanced pen kits try craftsuppliesusa, woodturners catalog. You will see "apprentice " pen kits and higher end kits with a lot of variety. They also have all the tools and accessories you could want. Don't over buy right out of the gate. Depending on your shop tools you can build your own pen drilling jig and pen press. I would say looking at all the you tube pen videos you can find prior to buying would guide you in the right direction. Start with basics and expand as you gain experience . If you are located near a Woodcraft Supply store they put on a great one day basic pen turning class. Good luck with it

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Mabren2 (Jan 15, 2016)

ripjack13 said:


> I personally like the slimlines and the bolt action bullet pens. I find more people gravitate towards them more than the others I've made. A couple of the seirras are cool too. But maybe start with the bolts? Those are easy peasy and you can use up your smaller scrap.
> Do you have enough blanks? I could send out a box if you want.



Thanks for the reply Marc! I liked the look of those too. Right now I am mostly concerned with what I need to turn those. I don't have any pen making attachments, so that is what I meant by looking for a kit. Since I basically need it all, minus chisels and blanks, I didn't know if it would be better to by a kit with the mandrel, bits, etc.?

Something like this:

http://www.penmakingsupplies.com/products/deluxe-pen-press-starter-set-2-morse-taper-mandrel.html

Thanks for the offer on blanks, but I should be good on blanks for now. The lumber I buy for my turkey calls is oversized, so I have a lot of cutoffs from that I've been saving.


----------



## Mabren2 (Jan 15, 2016)

Patrude said:


> If you want a good look at beginner and advanced pen kits try craftsuppliesusa, woodturners catalog. You will see "apprentice " pen kits and higher end kits with a lot of variety. They also have all the tools and accessories you could want. Don't over buy right out of the gate. Depending on your shop tools you can build your own pen drilling jig and pen press. I would say looking at all the you tube pen videos you can find prior to buying would guide you in the right direction. Start with basics and expand as you gain experience . If you are located near a Woodcraft Supply store they put on a great one day basic pen turning class. Good luck with it



Thanks Rich. I saw those apprentice kits, I think a quality kit similar to that is probably what I need. Your advice is good, I'm trying to avoid being the weekend fisherman with a boatload of gear, haha.


----------



## Mabren2 (Jan 15, 2016)

Schroedc said:


> What I did when I started out was the rockler slimline starter kit. Gives you a mandrel and a few other tools and a few kits but it's kinda spendy in my pinion and for the money you could get what you need and then some. Do you have a dead center? If so I'd suggest getting the bushings to turn between centers and doing bolt action or Sierra style pens. If you want to go with a mandrel the adjustable mandrel from psi or woodcraft works just fine. For assembly a press is nice but a c clamp works as well if you pad the faces. I've even used one of the Irwin quick clamps to press stuff together. The other thing you'll want is an end mill to square the blanks up after drilling and tubing them unless you have a disk sander to that.
> 
> This gives me an idea for an instructional thread. I'll put one together tomorrow night after I get back from a bunch of basketball games.



Thanks Colin! That's the kind of info I'm looking for. I don't have a dead center, but I will get one if I need to. Thanks for being willing to do a tutorial sometime, just another reason why I love this place!

Reactions: +Karma 1


----------



## Schroedc (Jan 15, 2016)

Mabren2 said:


> Thanks Colin! That's the kind of info I'm looking for. I don't have a dead center, but I will get one if I need to. Thanks for being willing to do a tutorial sometime, just another reason why I love this place!



I'd have already started it but I'm in the middle of an upgrade to Windows 10 and it would take forever on my phone

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


----------



## ripjack13 (Jan 15, 2016)

Mabren2 said:


> Thanks for the reply Marc! I liked the look of those too. Right now I am mostly concerned with what I need to turn those. I don't have any pen making attachments, so that is what I meant by looking for a kit. Since I basically need it all, minus chisels and blanks, I didn't know if it would be better to by a kit with the mandrel, bits, etc.?
> 
> Something like this:
> 
> ...




https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/5/4646/Apprentice-Pen-Turning-Essentials-Kit
^^^That kit is not bad to start out on..minus the pen press. But you can use a vise or even your lathe and tail stock. I have used my tailstock and made some scrap inserts out of some polypropylene sheets i have laying around. I use a vise, but I had a huge one already from when I started my grip making venture...

Or just go with the basics and get the barrel trimmer and the mandrel...
https://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKTRIMKIT.html
https://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKMSMAN2.html

Bushings are usually $4-9 
these are the bullet/bolt bushings...
https://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKCP3000BU.html


Lemme look at my wall too. See what I have that I won't use...


making pens is fun and instantly visually rewarding. But it also can be a pita...and a money pit. Just limit yourself to 2 kits for a lil while to see if it's good for you. ask plenty of questions!!

I'll let others chime in too....I'm still a n00b pen guy too...

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Sprung (Jan 15, 2016)

Some real good thoughts and advice here. I've got a couple to add, but I'll try to remember to add them in the morning. Has been a long day and my brain is fried - having a hard time thinking and typing, let alone trying to do both at the same time!

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


----------



## justallan (Jan 15, 2016)

I got a mandrel along with my lathe when I bought it and then bought some different kits and inserts afterwards. I have a mini drill press that's extra, so I use it for a press.
My biggest recommendation would be only get a handful of kits to start with until you figure out what works for you. The slim-lines are cheap and real easy to do. The bolts are very cool, but cost 5 times as much.
If you plan to do a CA finish, there is a video made by Hadden Hailers that's a giant help.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Mabren2 (Jan 16, 2016)

justallan said:


> I got a mandrel along with my lathe when I bought it and then bought some different kits and inserts afterwards. I have a mini drill press that's extra, so I use it for a press.
> My biggest recommendation would be only get a handful of kits to start with until you figure out what works for you. The slim-lines are cheap and real easy to do. The bolts are very cool, but cost 5 times as much.
> If you plan to do a CA finish, there is a video made by Hadden Hailers that's a giant help.



Thanks! Yeah I'm learning it would definitely be wise to start with one or two styles. I watched that same video the other day, can't really remember what I was looking for when I came across it. Anyway, it has me itching to try CA finishes.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Sprung (Jan 16, 2016)

Matthew, what lathe do you have? What Morse Taper does it have?

I have to agree with Colin's suggestion about 60 degree dead and live centers. The dead center goes in the headstock to drive the work and the live center goes in the tailstock. You would then need special turn between center (TBC) bushings, which do cost more than regular bushings, but are more accurate and more durable. I have also used regular bushings between centers without issue too on occasion. Honestly, I'd got straight to using centers and turn between center bushings and skip the mandrel. I couldn't find my turn between center slimline bushings the other day so I got out the mandrel. All I got was chatter and tearout, even with the lightest of cuts with a fresh edge on my carbide cutter. I gave up on that pen until I could find my slimline TBC bushings. I've gotten most of my TBC bushings from ClassicNib.com.

For starting out, I would honestly skip the Slimline kits. Yes, they're cheap, but I find them finicky in assembly sometimes and the wood gets very thin at the ends, which can cause some inexperienced pen turners challenges with blowouts. My recommendation for a good first kit is the Sierra style. Some sellers call it Sierra. Woodturningz.com calls it the Mesa. ClassicNib.com calls it the Arrow. (I personally prefer the Arrow from Classic Nib, but the other ones are good too.) These kits have different names, but these three names all use the same bushings. If you want to add in another kit or two, I'd look at the Bolt Action pen kit and/or the Navigator (available from Woodcraft) or the Baron (made by Berea, available at a number of other places.) (The Navigator and Baron are the same kit, with different names from different sellers, and use the same bushings.) The Navigator/Baron would give you Rollerball and Fountain Pen options. Another option would be the Cigar style. All four of these styles - Sierra, Bolt Action, Navigator/Baron, and Cigar have TBC bushings available for them and ClassicNib.com carries them all, as well as some others.

For assembly, I've never had a pen press. I tried some pads for the lathe for a while and hated them. I've done more than 95% of my pen assembly with a parallel clamp. I tape some thin cut-offs, around 1/4" thick or so of something like walnut or maple or something of similar hardness to give the pads of the clamp a little protection.

You'll need a means of drilling the blank. You can drill on the lathe, holding the blank in a chuck, and there's even a specially made chuck for drilling pen blanks made by PSI. I use a pen blank drilling vise. I have this one that I picked up used and am very happy with it. But, before I had a blank drilling vise, I used a wooden screw clamp to hold the blanks for me and it worked well enough until I could afford to pick up a drilling vise. Something like this would be extremely easy to build and you'd never have to buy a drilling vise, only have to use some scrap wood laying around and pick up the clamping hold-down, which can be had at Harbor Freight for cheap.

For trimming the ends of the wood after you glue in the tube (you'll need to bring the wood down flush to the brass and square it all up, removing only just a hair of brass to square it up), I recommend not even getting a barrel trimmer. They're easy to take too much off with and they're easy to shatter or crack a blank with, or even introduce hairline cracks that you'll never notice until your blank blows out. When I switched from a barrel trimmer to sanding the ends, I went from about 20% of blanks blowing out on me to virtually none. I use Rick Herrell's Offset Lathe Sanding Jig. He has details on how it works there. To order it, you'll have to join over at IAP and then send him a message. Honestly, this is also cheaper than going the barrel trimmer route and needing to get all the different sizes of pilot shafts, or even finding some kits with a tube size that there is no pilot shaft available for. Before ditching the barrel trimmer, I had (over time) invested about $150 into trimmer heads and pilot shafts. I'd have been money ahead (and saved a TON of frustration and lost blanks) to start out with the sanding jig. (And you'll need the transfer punches anyway if you ever have to do any disassembly. Speaking of disassembly, if you ever have to do that, I find these invaluable in making the disassembly process easier while reducing the risk of damage to the finished barrel or the components.)

The CA video that Allan linked above is a good one. It's not the exact way I apply my CA finish, but CA finishing is a process where if you ask 10 pen turners how they apply their CA finishes, you'll get at least 15 different answers. Andrew (HaddenHailers) excells at his CA finishes and his video works on pens too. Make sure to lightly sand the ends to re-square them and remove any excess finish before assembly - a little finish hanging proud of the end of the blank/brass tube can wreak havoc during assembly.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Great Post 2 | Informative 2


----------



## JR Custom Calls (Jan 16, 2016)

My opinion... and I'll likely echo some others...


Don't start with a mandrel. Turn between centers. Well worth it.

Fight the urge to make them 'fat'. While it seems like a good idea, keeping a smooth straight line between bushings makes for a classier pen.

Use your lathe to press parts together. I started with a squeeze bar clamp. Bad idea. Using a block of wood in your headstock and tailstock will make for a better fit. Parts don't go in crooked and break, and you can stop at any point and reposition without having to set up your press again. 

Start with cheap kits to learn the basics. A really classy cheap kit is the aristocrat from penkits.biz. It's the same basic kit as the JR Gent, but the cheapest of any you'll find elsewhere from what I've seen.

Make sure your ends are square. What I do is drill my blanks, then rough round them between centers. Chuck them in my 4 jaw and trim the ends down to the tubes. Then turn them with the bushings. 

Don't forget to debur your tubes. I use a smooth step bit, but you can use a round file or a more expensive deburring tool.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1 | Great Post 1


----------



## Mabren2 (Jan 16, 2016)

I can't thank you guys enough for taking the time to share your experience with me. It is really nice to get these kind of responses and know that someone is not just trying to sell you something. I'm definitely learning a lot!

Reactions: +Karma 1


----------



## duncsuss (Jan 17, 2016)

JR Custom Calls said:


> Use your lathe to press parts together. I started with a squeeze bar clamp. Bad idea. Using a block of wood in your headstock and tailstock will make for a better fit. Parts don't go in crooked and break, and you can stop at any point and reposition without having to set up your press again.


+1 -- although I use a block of Delrin (acetal) with a tenon. It has the advantage of not compressing the way a softer piece of wood might.

For squaring the ends, I use Rick Herrell's sanding jig, which I hold in a Jacobs chuck in the tailstock. I bought this HarborFreight set of transfer punches to slide the pen barrels along (these have other uses, like disassembling things when I mess up the assembly). In the headstock I have a block of wood in a scroll chuck, turned the face true then put sandpaper on it (i.e. a home-made disk sander.)

Deburring the tube ends before pressing in parts is vital -- as is checking to make sure there is no glue (nada, zip, zilch, none) inside the tube. Lightly sand the inside with a piece of rolled up 220 grit, it will reveal any glue patches that must be removed (I use an X-acto knife with a long pointy blade.) Any glue left on the inside will almost certainly cause the barrel you just made to split when you press in the components. (And you really don't need to ask me how I know that )

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


----------



## Kevin (Jan 17, 2016)

JR Custom Calls said:


> Fight the urge to make them 'fat'. While it seems like a good idea, keeping a smooth straight line between bushings makes for a classier pen.



Matthew don't forget Jon's advice above - nothing uglier than a "bulgy" pen IMO. I just grabbed a couple of images at random from google - look at all this work put into these pens and at least IMO they are all butt ass ugly because of their shape. No offense to the craftsman just an opinion . . . 



 



 



 



 

And for god's sake don't do something like this to an otherwise nice slice of wood . . . 



 


Don't these look much better?


 



 



 



 


There must be a market for "The Bulgers" because so many craftsman make them, but to my eye it's the ugliest pen you can make.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Sprung (Jan 17, 2016)

Kevin said:


> There must be a market for "The Bulgers" because so many craftsman make them, but to my eye it's the ugliest pen you can make.



Agreed - bulging pens are not pretty. There's a few kits that seem to call for just a slight curve to the wood portion, but not more than that, IMO. Bulging pens are typically the work of a newer pen turner, though there are some exceptions to that. I know I made a few bulgers in my early pens. But, as time goes on, you refine your skills and your eye for aesthetic. So, yes, Matthew, don't overlook Jon or Kevin's point on aesthetics of the finished pen.

You'll also notice a little in some of the pics Kevin posted about grain matching. If you're making a two piece pen, it looks more aesthetically pleasing if you orientate the pieces so the grain lines up between the two pieces when the pen is closed.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


----------



## duncsuss (Jan 17, 2016)

Sprung said:


> If you're making a two piece pen, it looks more aesthetically pleasing if you orientate the pieces so the grain lines up between the two pieces when the pen is closed.



Agreed. One thing you have to watch out for is that many cap-to-barrel screw threads are multi-start (often 3 or 4 threads interlaced.) This means that you can take a lot of effort to get things lined up when the cap is closed, then next time you put the cap on you freak yourself out because it doesn't line up any more 

(In which case, simply unscrew the cap and slowly turn backwards until it "clicks" into the next groove and tighten her up again ... you might have to do this more than once to find the right alignment.)

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


----------



## duncsuss (Jan 17, 2016)

Oh -- and the easiest way I found to get grain alignment is to make the lower barrel, then screw the cap coupler onto it tightly. Then take the cap barrel and align the grain, scratch a witness mark on the coupler that lines up with a distinctive feature on the cap. Unscrew the coupler and press it into the cap barrel using the witness mark to keep things lined up.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Mabren2 (Jan 17, 2016)

Lots of good info! I appreciate it, I'll take all I can get.

Based on the recommendations of you guys I am going to get set up to turn between centers. I have a coworker that lost her husband a few years ago, and he was a pen maker. I am going to set up a time with her to go through some of his supplies, and hopefully I can find a lot of what I need there. Then I'll make a list of what else I need to get started.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## ironman123 (Jan 17, 2016)

Sounds like you have a good plan. Hope you get most of what you need from your co worker.


----------



## ripjack13 (Jan 17, 2016)

Well...I'm going to disagree a lil bit with the bulbous look. I kinda like it. However, as long as it's not outlandish looking. Here's a few examples of the ones I've made...(and this is just my opinion, tear em up if you want. I got me some thick skin.)











I like to make em look different than plain straight pens at box stores. Not to mention the majority of the ones I've made like this get picked over the few straight looking ones I had.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## ripjack13 (Jan 17, 2016)

Then there's this one I made for my brother....but he's weirder than me and wanted it to look like this...

Reactions: Like 1 | EyeCandy! 1


----------



## Kevin (Jan 17, 2016)

It's just opinion Marc. They are like arm pits . . . . .

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## ripjack13 (Jan 17, 2016)

Yes sir...I said the same. No offence here taken nor meant as well....

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## duncsuss (Jan 17, 2016)

One option I quite like with the slimline kits is to throw away the center band, it lets me make the pen a bit heavier without the cinched-waist look. I've made some with a contrasting piece of wood to simulate a centerband, others simply added a quarter inch extra length on the lower barrel to compensate.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Way Cool 1


----------



## Mabren2 (Jan 17, 2016)

Anytime "style" is involved its always different strokes for different folks. Its just like clothes or anything else when it comes to what style pen someone wants to buy. For me personally, I'm drawn more to the wood and the quality of craftsmanship when I look at things like that. If those two variables are good, chances are it will fit someone's "style".

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Mabren2 (Jan 26, 2016)

Well my coworker hooked me up pretty good today! I got at least 250 pre-cut pen blanks of pretty nice stuff: walnut burl, maple burl, redwood burl, madrone, etc., and a few pieces that can be processed into more blanks. I got another box of exotic small boards that includes bubinga, zebra wood, wenge, purpleheart, to name a few. Some of these are big enough to make a few pot calls and strikers out of, which I like because I haven't had the chance to use any exotics yet. I also got a cheap pen press, a custom made drilling jig, and several slim line kits to practice with. The icing on the cake for me was a new in the box talon chuck and a nice 16 bit forstner set. I've been eyeing that chuck for a while now, but been reluctant to bite the bullet. Glad I waited now. She told me to take it all for $300. I've known her all my life, and she has kids my age, and she told me she was just happy that someone was going to enjoy it. I'm pretty pumped about my score! Now I just need a few more odds and ends, and I'll be ready to get going.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 2


----------



## duncsuss (Jan 26, 2016)

Wow ... she's a very kind lady, that's a lot of stuff for not a lot of coin


----------



## Sprung (Jan 26, 2016)

Very nice! That's a lot to give you a great start!

You'll really like that Talon chuck - I have one and it's great!


----------



## ripjack13 (Jan 26, 2016)

SCOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRREEE!!!!!!!


----------



## Kevin (Jan 27, 2016)

ripjack13 said:


> Well...I'm going to disagree a lil bit with the bulbous look. I kinda like it. However, as long as it's not outlandish looking. Here's a few examples of the ones I've made...(and this is just my opinion, tear em up if you want. I got me some thick skin.)
> 
> View attachment 95127
> View attachment 95128
> ...



We already fought a humongous battle over this Marc. A lot of good men on both sides died. It was called the Battle of the Bulge and we won it. You have to stop making those things man so that their sacrifice was not in vain . . . . .


----------

