# Need some input on Lathes



## Schroedc (Sep 3, 2016)

So I'm moving along this morning working my butt off and my Delta VS lathe stops spinning when I apply a tool or sandpaper to the turning. Apparently it's losing torque and with the other issues I had in the past I'm not in the mood to sink money into it for a new motor now that it's out of warranty. 

I need to be back up an running in a hurry so looking at two lathes.

Jet 1221 and the Rikon 70-220. About 70.00 more for the Jet, both comparable in size, the Jet VS has a bit better overlap in speeds through the 3 bands than the Rikon, just wondering if it's going to be worth the extra money. 

I run my lathe quite a bit as it's my main tool for making inventory. I could just run my Oneway but for pens and such, the big jump in my power bill when I run it a lot has me steering away form that option.

Anyone out there own either or both of these lathes?


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 3, 2016)

The 70-220 is Rikon's midi is that correct? If so it is a much more stout lathe imo, has a full 1" tool rest post, And you can't beat a 5 year warranty! I cant give you a serious review as mine is still in the box. I like the width of the bed on the jet but that's about it. I looked at both of those and all the others and for my money I went with the Rikon. And their customer service is awesome.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Schroedc (Sep 3, 2016)

woodtickgreg said:


> The 70-220 is Rikon's midi is that correct? If so it is a much more stout lathe imo, has a full 1" tool rest post, And you can't beat a 5 year warranty! I cant give you a serious review as mine is still in the box. I like the width of the bed on the jet but that's about it. I looked at both of those and all the others and for my money I went with the Rikon. And their customer service is awesome.



yep, that's the Midi. I know thay had a few bad VS units when they first came out but from talking to everyone they got that sorted out right quick. 

The 1" tool rest post would be nice but of course that means all my current tool rests would be useless.


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 3, 2016)

Schroedc said:


> yep, that's the Midi. I know thay had a few bad VS units when they first came out but from talking to everyone they got that sorted out right quick.
> 
> The 1" tool rest post would be nice but of course that means all my current tool rests would be useless.


Cut em off and weld em to a 1' cold rolled bar.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Schroedc (Sep 3, 2016)

woodtickgreg said:


> Cut em off and weld em to a 1' cold rolled bar.



I could sleeve them too.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 3, 2016)

Schroedc said:


> I could sleeve them too.


Yes but if you sleeve them I would still weld em.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sprung (Sep 3, 2016)

I'm a long ways off from pulling the trigger, but I've been considering either one as my next lathe purchase. I am leaning towards the Jet because of the range of speeds without changing the belt. At the two speeds I most commonly use most in turning pens, I would still have to change the belt between speeds if I go with the Rikon. If I go with the Jet, I will not have to change belts between my preferred speeds.

I could be wrong and can't find my copy of the current or upcoming Woodcraft sales flyer, but if I'm remembering correctly, it's either Jet or Rikon that usually goes on sale for 10 or 15% off in September - if you can verify that, it would certainly help you.


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## gman2431 (Sep 3, 2016)

I've ride my Rikon hard and she still fires up every time. Like Greg said they are great people to work with also.


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 3, 2016)

I plan to make some 1" tool rest but that doesn't do you any good now and it will be some time before I get to them. 
But I think it is definitely worth stepping up to a 1" post.


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## Tclem (Sep 3, 2016)

I have the 1221. 2 years I think. Have turned about 5,678,893,668,878,809 hairsticks and 764,788,897,678 pens and 1 bowl and haven't had a lick of trouble. Knock on Marc's head I don't have any now

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## duncsuss (Sep 3, 2016)

Question to all owners of the Rikon: when you turn on the power, how long does it take to get up to speed?

I ask because I know that the Jet 1221VS has a very "soft start", which IMO wastes a lot of time when sanding pens. Even for a non-commercial turner like me, it's a bit irritating. I'd imagine that for somebody in @Schroedc 's position, where time = money, it could get to be a serious complaint.


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## Schroedc (Sep 3, 2016)

duncsuss said:


> Question to all owners of the Rikon: when you turn on the power, how long does it take to get up to speed?
> 
> I ask because I know that the Jet 1221VS has a very "soft start", which IMO wastes a lot of time when sanding pens. Even for a non-commercial turner like me, it's a bit irritating. I'd imagine that for somebody in @Schroedc 's position, where time = money, it could get to be a serious complaint.



Will it let you change speed on the fly? Can I dial it down while spinning or does it require me to come to a stop, dial my speed and restart?


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## duncsuss (Sep 3, 2016)

Schroedc said:


> Will it let you change speed on the fly? Can I dial it down while spinning or does it require me to come to a stop, dial my speed and restart?


No problem adjusting the speed on the fly -- it's electronic variable speed -- but if you stop it, as I do to inspect between grits when sanding (and especially when sanding a CA finish), the re-start time is bothersome. The older Jet 1014 lathes didn't behave this way.


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## ripjack13 (Sep 3, 2016)

duncsuss said:


> Question to all owners of the Rikon: when you turn on the power, how long does it take to get up to speed?
> 
> I ask because I know that the Jet 1221VS has a very "soft start", which IMO wastes a lot of time when sanding pens. Even for a non-commercial turner like me, it's a bit irritating. I'd imagine that for somebody in @Schroedc 's position, where time = money, it could get to be a serious complaint.



Mine is almost instantly....

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tony (Sep 3, 2016)

Rikon was on sale at Woodcraft, but it ended August 14th. Tony

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## Schroedc (Sep 4, 2016)

Well, I'm off for the day to visit my in-laws and buy a new lathe. Yesterday afternoon it got worse, had to keep whacking the VS unit on my Delta to get it to stay at any speed. I called up to Woodcraft to see if they had both the Jet and Rikon in stock and the guy I talked to said that I was the second complaint on losing torque in the same day. Looks like it was designed to last the warranty and no longer. 

Interesting thing, My wife occasionally streams videos when I'm working in the shop to our FB page for the business and looking back she wondered if something wasn't right the other day. I also found that the tailstock is wearing out, even with the quill lock tightened down the quill will move a bit. Explains the chatter when I'm working with harder materials.

All in all I think I'll be telling folks that if they get a chance to buy a Delta 46-460 it better still be under warranty or be dirt cheap. I loved it for the first 3 years or so but after that it's not been my favorite tool

I still haven't made up my mind on which one yet. I'll probably run both of them there and see if one speaks to me or not....


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## Tony (Sep 4, 2016)

Good luck Colin, hope it works out well. Tony


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## woodtickgreg (Sep 4, 2016)

It will be interesting to see which one you choose, especially with your experience as a wood worker and turner for income. How a professional and a hobbyist views thing is sometimes quite different. Having both lathes side by side helped me to make my decision, I had narrowed it down to those 2 as well. I really liked the bed on the jet for its width and shear mass, but there was many other positives on the Rikon that put it ahead, customer service being a big one. I have heard that Jet has been lacking in that as of late, changes within the company? Can't wait to see which one the pro chooses!


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## duncsuss (Sep 4, 2016)

I can give you a Grizzly 10% off coupon code -- maybe the Woodcraft manager will match the discount 

Best of luck making your decision, hope it works out well.


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## rocky1 (Sep 4, 2016)

Colin from the sound of things you have a loose solder joint on the board in your VFD. I wouldn't trash the lathe yet, the VFD is probably repairable. Experienced similar problems with the VFD on our honey extractor, it would intermittently quit while ramping up to full speed, when it picked up a little vibration. Got to the point I couldn't get it up to speed at all without it dropping signal and quitting. Sent the drive back to the manufacturer, they had a difficult time getting it to fail on the bench, so you may get "We can't find anything wrong with it." if you send it in, just be insistent. They wound up literally picking our drive up and dropping it on the bench to get it to fail, then questioned whether the extractor was jumping up and down off the ground or what. But, in the end they found a bad solder joint, soldered it back up, and we got a bill for about $70 including return shipping on the drive.


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## Schroedc (Sep 4, 2016)

rocky1 said:


> Colin from the sound of things you have a loose solder joint on the board in your VFD. I wouldn't trash the lathe yet, the VFD is probably repairable. Experienced similar problems with the VFD on our honey extractor, it would intermittently quit while ramping up to full speed, when it picked up a little vibration. Got to the point I couldn't get it up to speed at all without it dropping signal and quitting. Sent the drive back to the manufacturer, they had a difficult time getting it to fail on the bench, so you may get "We can't find anything wrong with it." if you send it in, just be insistent. They wound up literally picking our drive up and dropping it on the bench to get it to fail, then questioned whether the extractor was jumping up and down off the ground or what. But, in the end they found a bad solder joint, soldered it back up, and we got a bill for about $70 including return shipping on the drive.



I won't junk it, Will eventually rebuild motor and put as a spare. It's just been too many issues to depend on. 

Just picked up its replacement....



 

I'll explain why I went this way compared to the Rikon later tonight.

Reactions: Like 4 | Way Cool 1


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## deltatango (Sep 4, 2016)

Rocky's right. I'd suggest you take a video of it having its problems and post it on you tube, then you can refer them to that.


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## rocky1 (Sep 4, 2016)

duncsuss said:


> Question to all owners of the Rikon: when you turn on the power, how long does it take to get up to speed?
> 
> I ask because I know that the Jet 1221VS has a very "soft start", which IMO wastes a lot of time when sanding pens. Even for a non-commercial turner like me, it's a bit irritating. I'd imagine that for somebody in @Schroedc 's position, where time = money, it could get to be a serious complaint.




Colin and you to Duncan you might question Jet about the soft start on your lathes, whether they will tell you or not I don't know, but fixing the soft start problem you're seeing may be as simple as turning a little bitty screw a 1/4 turn on a potentiometer on the VFD board. The problem is, determining which potentiometer to adjust.


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## duncsuss (Sep 4, 2016)

rocky1 said:


> The problem is, determining which potentiometer to adjust



Aye, that's always the tricky part 

Reminds me of the time somebody pulled the wrong cable out in the electrical machines lab when I was at college -- there were only 4 to choose from, and 2 of them were the right ones. Sudden field weakening (more like "total collapse") of the stator caused it to accelerate rapidly. With almost no torque, friction stopped it fairly soon -- but the back EMF caused the 200 Amp fuses to blow. That was entertaining, but I'm glad I wasn't near the breaker panel.


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## Schroedc (Sep 4, 2016)

rocky1 said:


> Colin and you to Duncan you might question Jet about the soft start on your lathes, whether they will tell you or not I don't know, but fixing the soft start problem you're seeing may be as simple as turning a little bitty screw a 1/4 turn on a potentiometer on the VFD board. The problem is, determining which potentiometer to adjust.



I've got the info I need on that, the current machines are set up out of the box with a shorter soft start but I know how to adjust.

Reactions: Like 2


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## rocky1 (Sep 4, 2016)

duncsuss said:


> Aye, that's always the tricky part



Yeah, it gets interesting at times. The drive on the extractor, uses a Leeson VFD board, and Programmable Logic Control board supplied through Speed Control Plus, the combination of which are assembled by Mann Lake beekeeping supply. Trying to figure out which Pot to adjust to cure the problems I was experiencing last year on set up of a new drive, was like pulling teeth on a grizzly bear! Somewhere along the line a Leeson drive manual for a drive that uses the same board we have, found it's way into the folder on the extractor, and using that, I figured what to adjust to fix it, before Mann Lake did.


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## Mike1950 (Sep 4, 2016)

I have 4 jet machines. One for 16 yrs. I cannot tell you what service l have yet to have need to contact them.....

Reactions: Like 1


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## ripjack13 (Sep 4, 2016)

duncsuss said:


> Question to all owners of the Rikon: when you turn on the power, how long does it take to get up to speed?
> 
> I ask because I know that the Jet 1221VS has a very "soft start", which IMO wastes a lot of time when sanding pens. Even for a non-commercial turner like me, it's a bit irritating. I'd imagine that for somebody in @Schroedc 's position, where time = money, it could get to be a serious complaint.

Reactions: Like 2


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## deltatango (Sep 4, 2016)

Mine doesn't quite come up to speed that fast...

Reactions: Way Cool 6


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## ripjack13 (Sep 4, 2016)

deltatango said:


> Mine doesn't quite come up to speed that fast...



Where's the video of it?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## deltatango (Sep 4, 2016)



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## ripjack13 (Sep 4, 2016)

Look at all those OSHA violations!!!

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Mike1950 (Sep 4, 2016)

ripjack13 said:


> Where's the video of it?


Aaaa!a is that a pen blank and a really small guy???  what kind of lathe... nice.


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## deltatango (Sep 4, 2016)

Can't remember the brand off the top of my head Mike. Got it in 1972 and Jacked the headstock and tailstock up around '78-'79. Added the power feed to the apron in the 80's. It's just a good old heavy duty cast iron lathe, like they don't make any more. Wouldn't feel safe doing that kind of work on much anything else.

The drive is a US Motors Vari-drive with automatic speed changer. Like a Gerbing drive but housed within the motor housing. Has variable speed via two moveable cone pulleys that open and close via a small motor in a housing that runs gears to the main sheaves. Same effect as VFD but all mechanical.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 1


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