# Maple syrup 2021 season



## ripjack13

Starting to boil it down today. I have 15 gallons from 2 trees in 1 week! Holy cow....

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## trc65

Never been involved with syrup production, do you have an idea what the 15 gal will yield in final product?


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## Mr. Peet

trc65 said:


> Never been involved with syrup production, do you have an idea what the 15 gal will yield in final product?


40:1 for most sugar maple trees, 50:1 to 60:1 for most Red maple, 70:1 to 80:1 for silver maple...these are from memory, not books,,, so. If you have super sugars, rare, they yield much more. Time, temperature, barometric make the mix money.

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## ripjack13

trc65 said:


> Never been involved with syrup production, do you have an idea what the 15 gal will yield in final product?



Not quite a quart....but this one tree is giving off 5 gallons in a day. So there's more to be made.
I'll be here all week boiling it. All day long......

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## ripjack13

@sprucegum


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## ripjack13

Last year I got this much from 5gallons....(2oz bottles I think?)





Those are about the size of a blue lighter....

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## Barb

ripjack13 said:


> Starting to boil it down today. I have 15 gallons from 2 trees in 1 week! Holy cow....
> 
> View attachment 204902
> 
> View attachment 204903


A friend of mine started doing this last winter in WI. Best maple syrup I've ever tasted.

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## sprucegum

Nice color. Hoping it warms up enough to make the trees run. Its dripping a little today but things have been frozen pretty hard it will take a while to thaw. Don't know how much sugaring time I will get in this year, there tends to be a lot of young people not worried about covid hanging out at the sugar house. Scheduled to get the needle in about a week then 3 or four weeks for the booster. I will probably have whatever immunity i'm going to have about the time it's all over.

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## ripjack13

Another hour outside I think still. Then I can go inside with it on the stove for a final boil.
Got just about a 1/4 of it left.
That was boiling about 10 gallons so far....

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## ripjack13

I'll do some more tomorrow too. The way that one tree is producing it'll have another 5 gal by morning time.


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## Herb G.

I knew an old guy named Jeep who made maple syrup. He sent me about 2 qts. /12 years ago, and they are still good.


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## sprucegum

I used to sell quite a bit here but it got to be a lot of work and the money all went to my son the sugar maker. They have since started doing quite a mail order business and added a few value added products. They are pretty much sold out of last years crop but that should change soon. The web address appears in my signature line if anyone is interested.

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## Mike Hill

I fell into the dream of making some myself - but ya gotta have maples - don't got any. There are a handful of makers - maybe more now - probably east of us. I think @2feathers Creative Making has some near him. And I think none other than Danny Boone anbd his wife used to make maple sugar here. Have a jar of Tennessee maple syrup in the cabinet now, but it is surprisingly from southwest of here. There is one guy making elm syrup - not bad. I got the itch after driving from Quebec city to Montreal quite a few years back. For grins we stopped at the first maple stand we saw out of Quebec. I had not had real maple syrup much less maple candy until that moment. Took us forever to make the drive since we were stopping at just about every maple stand we saw after that. I was in a sugar high that night!

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## ripjack13

I read you can use cottonwood, white birch, black birch and walnut trees to make syrup....

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## ripjack13

Almost done boiling. I think I may have over cooked it this round. Its really thick.
It foamed up a couple of times on me, so this batch may be better suited for toast and ice cream...


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## ripjack13

All done. 
Too thick for sure...
Oh well. Next batch tomorrow will hopefully be better.

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## sprucegum

ripjack13 said:


> I read you can use cottonwood, white birch, black birch and walnut trees to make syrup....


Birch makes syrup but the sugar content of the sap is less than half what maple is. They run after the maples are done. The syrup scorches very easy when it's nearly finished. The stuff fetches about 3 times what maple does and is primarily a flavoring used by gormet cooks. It tastes terrible in my opinion but I guess it adds a flavor profile to some recipes. The university of vermont maple experiment station has done quite a bit of research to see if it is a viable way for maple producers to extend the season. A few are doing it, kind of makes sense as it uses the same equipment.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Mike Hill said:


> I fell into the dream of making some myself - but ya gotta have maples - don't got any. There are a handful of makers - maybe more now - probably east of us. I think @2feathers Creative Making has some near him. And I think none other than Danny Boone anbd his wife used to make maple sugar here. Have a jar of Tennessee maple syrup in the cabinet now, but it is surprisingly from southwest of here. There is one guy making elm syrup - not bad. I got the itch after driving from Quebec city to Montreal quite a few years back. For grins we stopped at the first maple stand we saw out of Quebec. I had not had real maple syrup much less maple candy until that moment. Took us forever to make the drive since we were stopping at just about every maple stand we saw after that. I was in a sugar high that night!


My dad is running sap right now. Started tapping a couple/ three weeks ago. A neighbor about 2 miles away makes a good indicator since he uses his yard trees... My mother is from upstate New York and we lived there about 9 years or so. I have pulled fresh maple taffy... It is definitely better!
And @Herb G. , what is up with having syrup that old? You do know it is edible right? I mean, in our house, 2 quarts wouldnt last a summer out! Talk about willpower.


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## Wildthings

My transplanted Texas brother, who now lives in Vermont, just tapped his first ten trees. Sent me videos today of the sap dripping in the buckets. He's well on his way

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## FLQuacker

Im going to Maine this summer...gonna bring back a truckload of syrup and wood!

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## ripjack13

I just tasted the maple stuff after it had been in the fridge for a few hours. It's like maple butter consistency and tastes good, but there's a definite metal after taste to it. Weird. I wonder if its from the aluminum pot I had used to evaporate it?


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## trc65

ripjack13 said:


> I just tasted the maple stuff after it had been in the fridge for a few hours. It's like maple butter consistency and tastes good, but there's a definite metal after taste to it. Weird. I wonder if its from the aluminum pot I had used to evaporate it?



If I had to guess, I'd think the aluminum pot contributed to the aftertaste. I use Stainless steel for anything that needs to be cooked for a long time. Don't know acidity of maple sap, but if is even slightly acidic, combined with extended boiling times, Al pot could be the culprit.

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## ripjack13

I'll be using a steel pot tomorrow for sure.


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## trc65

After you make tomorrow's run, do a blind taste test. Have your wife prepare two spoons for you to taste without you knowing which was which, and then do the same for her. Of course, if there is differences in thickness/consistency, may not be a fair test.

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## sprucegum

FLQuacker said:


> Im going to Maine this summer...gonna bring back a truckload of syrup and wood!


Take the scenic route through Crawford notch to VT. I will load you up with enough northern hardwood to keep you in call blanks for a while.

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## Mike Hill

Danged - I wish I wasn't Type 2!


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## Mike Hill

ripjack13 said:


> All done.
> Too thick for sure...
> Oh well. Next batch tomorrow will hopefully be better.
> 
> View attachment 204924


I'll go first! Heavy Metal Noogy signs in the reflection - aww how cute! Now, back to the product. Since it is undeniably defective and since you might have trouble disposing of it - my addy is..... and my phone number is BR-549. Why don't you cook it a little more, whip it up and make maple candy?

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## Mike Hill

2feathers Creative Making said:


> I have pulled fresh maple taffy... It is definitely better!
> 
> 
> Maple Taffy - well, I have never!!!!!!! My grandmother and Little Mikey used to pull taffy quite often. She called it vinegar taffy, - was mighty good! - just glad my teeth were good!!! But Real Maple Taffy - now is that something that floated down from the clouds? Just to say I did, I will have to!


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## Mike Hill

FLQuacker said:


> Im going to Maine this summer...gonna bring back a truckload of syrup and wood!


The first trip we take after I retire is up there and definitely going through VT and other places - so much I want to see and do up there!

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## ripjack13

Round 2....





And...side note. I tried my stuff from yesterday after being in the fridge all night, and its now the consistsncy of honey, and no metal after taste...

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## Mike Hill

ripjack13 said:


> Round 2....
> 
> View attachment 204950
> 
> And...side note. I tried my stuff from yesterday after being in the fridge all night, and its now the consistsncy of honey, and no metal after taste...


Maybe it's like bbqing. I use a wood burner often and after a few hours of tending to the fire, my senses get so blown out with smoke, that it takes a day or two for my taste to get back to being able to taste the smoke.

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## sprucegum

ripjack13 said:


> I just tasted the maple stuff after it had been in the fridge for a few hours. It's like maple butter consistency and tastes good, but there's a definite metal after taste to it. Weird. I wonder if its from the aluminum pot I had used to evaporate it?


could be, maple syrup will pickup off flavors about as easily as any food I know of.

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## sprucegum

Mike Hill said:


> Danged - I wish I wasn't Type 2!


I have the same issue. Not bad a couple metformin a day keeps the A1c below 6. I find that when I do use sugar that a tbs of maple syrup is much more satisfying and goes further than a tbs of cane sugar. Takes a pretty small drizzle to make a cup of plain greek yogurt better than a cup of ice cream.

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## ripjack13

Ok. I'm onto the finish boil. In the house. No foam....so far so good.

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## ripjack13

sprucegum said:


> I have the same issue. Not bad a couple metformin a day keeps the A1c below 6. I find that when I do use sugar that a tbs of maple syrup is much more satisfying and goes further than a tbs of cane sugar. Takes a pretty small drizzle to make a cup of plain greek yogurt better than a cup of ice cream.



I put a spoonful of the stuff I ruined made yesterday in my coffee this morning. Oh boy. That was yummy....

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Y'all tried "Rebel" ice cream? 6 to 8 grams of carbs per cup of ice cream... it's better than nothin' by a long shot! Halo is decent but has twice the carbs.


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## 2feathers Creative Making

ripjack13 said:


> Ok. I'm onto the finish boil. In the house. No foam....so far so good.
> 
> View attachment 204964


Good job keeping it on the money for the temps. The color is on track there for a real nice clean batch!

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## Mike Hill

Not tried Rebel Ice Cream. I'm not a fan of the Halo. I'll look for it. 
Been making my own - sorta. Low carb chocolate protein powder, cocoa powder, aspartame whirred up in a Ninja with ice for at least 45 secs (that's important to get texture). Like a chocolate milkshake or if you add less water like soft serve - better with some low fat powdered milk - but adds a few carbs. If I want some more protein - I add cricket powder. I think it is like 15g carbs for a 5 cup "serving" even with the powdered milk. It's often my "lunch" and fills me up.


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## 2feathers Creative Making

Mike Hill said:


> Not tried Rebel Ice Cream. I'm not a fan of the Halo. I'll look for it.
> Been making my own - sorta. Low carb chocolate protein powder, cocoa powder, aspartame whirred up in a Ninja with ice for at least 45 secs (that's important to get texture). Like a chocolate milkshake or if you add less water like soft serve - better with some low fat powdered milk - but adds a few carbs. If I want some more protein - I add cricket powder. I think it is like 15g carbs for a 5 cup "serving" even with the powdered milk. It's often my "lunch" and fills me up.


That sounds good.
You can trade carbs for fat grams in that recipe and add texture if you use heavy whipping cream instead of milk. Very low GI on the whipping cream. My wife is borderline diabetic. My mom is too. My dad and brother are low sugar so I have a slew of recipes that I have tried.


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## Mr. Peet

2feathers Creative Making said:


> Y'all tried "Rebel" ice cream? 6 to 8 grams of carbs per cup of ice cream... it's better than nothin' by a long shot! Halo is decent but has twice the carbs.


Must be a local thing, neither offered in stores around here, at least not yet.

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## ripjack13

So todays batch amounted to 18oz. 




A comparison of last years onthe left and today on the right.





Very light and cloudy because of the sugar crystals suspended in it. I need better filters.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Mr. Peet said:


> Must be a local thing, neither offered in stores around here, at least not yet.


Weis market and price rite carry it in lebanon pa. You can go to halotop.com and search your town

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## Mr. Peet

2feathers Creative Making said:


> Weis market and price rite carry it in lebanon pa. You can go to halotop.com and search your town


I'll check our Weis again. They do carry several of the ice creams made at some of the local farms, along with raw milk and local cheese. Thank you.

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## FranklinWorkshops

With all the work you guys do and the cost of the fuel to boil it off, why don't you look at Walmart online and buy the Vermont maple syrup for $15 a quart? What am I missing here? https://www.walmart.com/ip/Butternut-Mountain-Farm-100-Pure-Vermont-Maple-Syrup-32-0-FL-OZ/49058126. This is really good stuff that we've been buying the last few years.


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## 2feathers Creative Making

FranklinWorkshops said:


> With all the work you guys do and the cost of the fuel to boil it off, why don't you look at Walmart online and buy the Vermont maple syrup for $15 a quart? What am missing here ?


Fresh maple syrup and the pleasure of knowing you made something everyone likes. Even the ones that want to paint ambrosia maple cabinets...

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## ripjack13



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## 2feathers Creative Making

ripjack13 said:


> View attachment 204981


Now that is starting to make me reach for the pancake mix!

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## Mr. Peet

FranklinWorkshops said:


> With all the work you guys do and the cost of the fuel to boil it off, why don't you look at Walmart online and buy the Vermont maple syrup for $15 a quart? What am I missing here? https://www.walmart.com/ip/Butternut-Mountain-Farm-100-Pure-Vermont-Maple-Syrup-32-0-FL-OZ/49058126. This is really good stuff that we've been buying the last few years.


Larry,

Read the entire label. In some states you can sell maple syrup, and call it real maple syrup, but only contain 40% of real syrup with 60% filler. We would drive from PA to VT to sell whole-sale because people pay more for the name Vermont on the bottle. That is why Vermont has a law allowing the seller to call it Vermont Maple Syrup with only 20% (this % may have changed, year 2000ish based) of the syrup being from Vermont. That is why so much Quebec syrup is sold to Vermont. 

Lots of Vermont places buy sap from upstate NY, and then can claim processed in Vermont. Love the ones that say, "Bottled in the Vermont Mountains" or Mountains of Vermont, but don't say where it was made / processed, but will proudly have a made in the USA brand or similar misrepresentation.

So the laws have allowed twisting of the truth, leading the customer in many directions, believing many things. So cheaper is often a cheaper product, or not truthfully presented. Wonder the real history on your syrup.

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## ripjack13

Well, it's settling down to the bottom. I'll pour it out slowly into other bottles tomorrow or so. But the amber color is good. I can use the sugar crystals to cook with. 
I have another 5 gallons to boil this weekend.

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## ripjack13

FranklinWorkshops said:


> With all the work you guys do and the cost of the fuel to boil it off, why don't you look at Walmart online and buy the Vermont maple syrup for $15 a quart? What am I missing here? https://www.walmart.com/ip/Butternut-Mountain-Farm-100-Pure-Vermont-Maple-Syrup-32-0-FL-OZ/49058126. This is really good stuff that we've been buying the last few years.



Walmart makes enough money off me. This only used up a 1/4 tank of propane for 2 batches.
And....I know this is real maple syrup. It gives me something to do outside in the sunshine. Fresh air. I did other things while I was watching the boil.
Redid a drawer front. Stained a pipe. Organised my plethora of fishing tackle boxes. So...its good.

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## Wildthings

ripjack13 said:


> So todays batch amounted to 18oz.
> View attachment 204970
> 
> A comparison of last years onthe left and today on the right.
> 
> View attachment 204971
> 
> Very light and cloudy because of the sugar crystals suspended in it. I need better filters.


I see a big difference!! The one on the left has Bob Hope's silhouette in it. The right one doesn't

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## ripjack13

Wildthings said:


> I see a big difference!! The one on the left has Bob Hope's silhouette in it. The right one doesn't


Judging by the size of the forehead, I'd say Jay Leno.
Hahahaha

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## FranklinWorkshops

Mr. Peet said:


> Larry,
> 
> Read the entire label. In some states you can sell maple syrup, and call it real maple syrup, but only contain 40% of real syrup with 60% filler. We would drive from PA to VT to sell whole-sale because people pay more for the name Vermont on the bottle. That is why Vermont has a law allowing the seller to call it Vermont Maple Syrup with only 20% (this % may have changed, year 2000ish based) of the syrup being from Vermont. That is why so much Quebec syrup is sold to Vermont.
> 
> Lots of Vermont places buy sap from upstate NY, and then can claim processed in Vermont. Love the ones that say, "Bottled in the Vermont Mountains" or Mountains of Vermont, but don't say where it was made / processed, but will proudly have a made in the USA brand or similar misrepresentation.
> 
> So the laws have allowed twisting of the truth, leading the customer in many directions, believing many things. So cheaper is often a cheaper product, or not truthfully presented. Wonder the real history on your syrup.


I don't really care about the home state of Walmart's maple syrup. It's great stuff and as good as any I've had anywhere, infinitely better than the stuff they sell at Costco. The label does say pure maple syrup so that's good enough. Here is a link to the company's website that makes it. https://butternutmountainfarm.com


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## sprucegum

ripjack13 said:


> Ok. I'm onto the finish boil. In the house. No foam....so far so good.
> 
> View attachment 204964





ripjack13 said:


> Ok. I'm onto the finish boil. In the house. No foam....so far so good.
> 
> View attachment 204964


Foaming is just part of the process. If it foams up too much a little drop of about any fat will knock it down. A tiny dab of butter will do it. We buy a gallon of a commercial defoaming agent from a maple supply place and use most of it in a season. Old timers would tie a chunk of salt pork to a stick and dip it in the boiling sap when it foamed over the top.

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## Gonzalodqa

Wow! if I lived in America I would be asking you to sell some to me
It looks really really good

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## sprucegum

ripjack13 said:


> So todays batch amounted to 18oz.
> View attachment 204970
> 
> A comparison of last years onthe left and today on the right.
> 
> View attachment 204971
> 
> Very light and cloudy because of the sugar crystals suspended in it. I need better filters.


The cloudyness is sugar sand from mineral in the sap. Niter is what most sugar makers call it. It will clean your system quicker than a bad batch of home made beer. Don't dispare given time it will settle out and you can pour the good stuff off the top. Before the days of good filters old timey sugar makers used a settling tank with a draw off valve placed several inches off the bottom.

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## sprucegum

Gonzalodqa said:


> Wow! if I lived in America I would be asking you to sell some to me
> It looks really really good


I don't know if my daughter in law has done international shipping or not. No idea what the rules are.


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## sprucegum

Mr. Peet said:


> Larry,
> 
> Read the entire label. In some states you can sell maple syrup, and call it real maple syrup, but only contain 40% of real syrup with 60% filler. We would drive from PA to VT to sell whole-sale because people pay more for the name Vermont on the bottle. That is why Vermont has a law allowing the seller to call it Vermont Maple Syrup with only 20% (this % may have changed, year 2000ish based) of the syrup being from Vermont. That is why so much Quebec syrup is sold to Vermont.
> 
> Lots of Vermont places buy sap from upstate NY, and then can claim processed in Vermont. Love the ones that say, "Bottled in the Vermont Mountains" or Mountains of Vermont, but don't say where it was made / processed, but will proudly have a made in the USA brand or similar misrepresentation.
> 
> So the laws have allowed twisting of the truth, leading the customer in many directions, believing many things. So cheaper is often a cheaper product, or not truthfully presented. Wonder the real history on your syrup.


I think you need to do a little more research. Yes Vermont candy companies like maple Grove buy out of state syrup but maple Grove and I'm sure others have a completely separate part of the plant for the Vermont product. My son has to get his operation inspected and certified each year in order to sell to them. No amount of out of state syrup can be legal labeled as made in Vermont. While I'm sure some raw sap gets transported cross border, I doubt much upstate NY sap makes the long trip down through the Champlain islands or ferried across the sometimes frozen lake to Burlington harbor. Vermont sugar makers have worked hard to protect the brand and would probably not have a problem reporting rule breakers. Vermont also has a state inspection required for larger sugar makers, smaller hobby type operations are exempt I think it is 500 taps and up require inspection. 



Also Vermont maple syrup is required to be 66.9 % sugar the INFERIOR  products from other states and providence's is usually 66% or less.

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## Mr. Peet

sprucegum said:


> I think you need to do a little more research. Yes Vermont candy companies like maple Grove buy out of state syrup but maple Grove and I'm sure others have a completely separate part of the plant for the Vermont product. My son has to get his operation inspected and certified each year in order to sell to them. No amount of out of state syrup can be legal labeled as made in Vermont. While I'm sure some raw sap gets transported cross border, I doubt much upstate NY sap makes the long trip down through the Champlain islands or ferried across the sometimes frozen lake to Burlington harbor. Vermont sugar makers have worked hard to protect the brand and would probably not have a problem reporting rule breakers. Vermont also has a state inspection required for larger sugar makers, smaller hobby type operations are exempt I think it is 500 taps and up require inspection.
> 
> 
> 
> Also Vermont maple syrup is required to be 66.9 % sugar the INFERIOR  products from other states and providence's is usually 66% or less.


I could do some more research, as I had mentioned, going off things as they were back around 2000. Inlaw has been sugaring since 1976, so some is based on what the New York State Maple Sugar association had printed in their past that he gave me. Plus I recall a few times where the syrup we (neighbors and I) took up to VT was auctioned. That was a waste of my time. Other times we made the runs were when the season up north was bad, so maybe half dozen in 20 years. I think 2 times we sold it in New Hampshire, wet were the money was green. Neighbor usually ran 2-5 K taps, depending on weather, and firewood available. Lot of work for sure. Had an oil fired system for back up but favored wood.

I was told that VT had more strict percentage rules than the USDA. Sure I read it at one time, but the neighbor died, his kin gave up a few years later and the sugar seasons just have not been the same.


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## ripjack13

Round 3....

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## ripjack13

sprucegum said:


> The cloudyness is sugar sand from mineral in the sap. Niter is what most sugar makers call it. It will clean your system quicker than a bad batch of home made beer. Don't dispare given time it will settle out and you can pour the good stuff off the top. Before the days of good filters old timey sugar makers used a settling tank with a draw off valve placed several inches off the bottom.


That's what my plan was to do this weekend. I also had read to add water to it and reboil it. Essentially starting over. I dont want to do that.
Live n learn. I'll transfer this batch (round 3 today) into a smaller pot once its boiled down. Soup pan size. This way I can control the temp a little better.

Thanks for the info Dave. I really appreciate your insight.


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## sprucegum

ripjack13 said:


> That's what my plan was to do this weekend. I also had read to add water to it and reboil it. Essentially starting over. I dont want to do that.
> Live n learn. I'll transfer this batch (round 3 today) into a smaller pot once its boiled down. Soup pan size. This way I can control the temp a little better.
> 
> Thanks for the info Dave. I really appreciate your insight.


After my dad sold his sugar bush I used to do it similar to the way you are doing it. Our children were young and it was something for them to do. We had 25 taps and a home made 2 x 3 tin pan on a large propane burner. I used to just keep adding sap throughout the day and sometimes for 2 or 3 days before transferring to a smaller pot to finish on the stove. That way we could finish upwards of a gallon at a time. Most years we made some over 5 gallons. One year we made 10. Be careful many back yard hobbie people get bitten by the bug. My son started out with our little hobby operation he made 1500 gallons last year. This winter he purchased 50 acres that will probably support 6-7 thousand taps.

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## ripjack13

I have 8 good sized maples in my yard. I think I'll stick to them for now. Oh, and next year my grandson wants to tap the huge cottonwood we have. Huge as in 4ft wide at the base...

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## ripjack13

Cottonwood ....

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## sprucegum

Running

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## ripjack13

Now that's a huge evaporator!!


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## sprucegum

ripjack13 said:


> Now that's a huge evaporator!!


Storage tank

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## sprucegum

Sugar house

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## sprucegum

Maple syrup being drawn off

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## sprucegum

Evaporator

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## Mike Hill

Dat looks complicated!

Oh and is that that one of them Polaris mudmobiles?

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## ripjack13

Heres some finishing pics of the 3rd batch.

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## ripjack13

I got 5 cups total. I poured the last batch of 16oz bottle into it to get rid of the sugar crystals. It worked.

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## ripjack13

Nice color this time. Not as dark as last years though...

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## ripjack13

No foam happened and no sugar crystals formed. I used muslin for the filter folded 2xs. Theres yummyness to be had tomorrow morning...
Now I gotta go run around outside the house to burn off this maple syrup sugar high I have after doing a few sample shots. Hahahahaaa

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## Eric Rorabaugh

Very nice color to that. When we were in Vermont 2 years ago, we went to a place and got some Vermont maple syrup. Walked through the sugar house and was talking to the owner. He told us about the different times of harvesting the sap, how the color changes in the final product.

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## Eric Rorabaugh

BTW...that big bottle in the back, is that the one you were sending to me?

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## sprucegum

ripjack13 said:


> Nice color this time. Not as dark as last years though...
> 
> View attachment 205064


Outstanding color! Fancy grade for sure.

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## Mike1950

FranklinWorkshops said:


> With all the work you guys do and the cost of the fuel to boil it off, why don't you look at Walmart online and buy the Vermont maple syrup for $15 a quart? What am I missing here? https://www.walmart.com/ip/Butternut-Mountain-Farm-100-Pure-Vermont-Maple-Syrup-32-0-FL-OZ/49058126. This is really good stuff that we've been buying the last few years.


Why??/ Why do people fly to Montana to hike up a mountain to catch a fish and turn it loose? Why do people fly to south Dakota to shoot a pheasant- They are available at the store? Why do people spend $75 k to Climb Everest? Why do people grow flowers- Hell why Veggies- available at store-cheaper? why do some old white haired guys chase burls? Probably if you have to ask you might have missed the point-why? cause there is always the question- can I do it?? and The victory lap- YES I can!!!! very fun informative thread. PS- Kathie is counting down the days that she can start her flowers- work for weeks- $$ outcome- one helluva loss of $$$ and time- Gain- a magnificent back and front yard full of color. Her smile- priceless....

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## sprucegum

85 gallons this boil

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## Mike1950

ripjack13 said:


> Nice color this time. Not as dark as last years though...
> 
> View attachment 205064


those are beautiful

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## ripjack13

Got another 5 gallon bucket full. I had checked em this morning at 8am. They were both empty, one was blown over from the wind so it was completely empty. I hooked it back up and checked later after dinner, it was 3/4 s full. Wooo!!

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## ripjack13

sprucegum said:


> Sugar house
> 
> View attachment 205039



One of these days, I'd love to come up there and check out their productions....That looks great, and I bet it smells yummy too. Do they let people in to watch?

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## sprucegum

ripjack13 said:


> One of these days, I'd love to come up there and check out their productions....That looks great, and I bet it smells yummy too. Do they let people in to watch?


Sure normal years people are always stopping by. They just put on a good sized addition to accomidate visitors. The space also has a kitchen for making maple candy and other value added products and it also has the sap storrage tank and reverse osmosis machine. People are still dropping in this year but they are not encouraging it due to covid restrictions.

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## Nubsnstubs

Considering this thread, I thought I would insert this.



Canada’s heist of the century involved $18.7 million worth of maple syrup



............ Jerry (in Tucson)

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## Tony

Wow....


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## sprucegum

Nubsnstubs said:


> Considering this thread, I thought I would insert this.
> 
> 
> 
> Canada’s heist of the century involved $18.7 million worth of maple syrup
> 
> 
> 
> ............ Jerry (in Tucson)


The Maple Grove plant near us got mixed up in that. They were not guilty of any crime other than perhaps they should have smelled a rat when they were offered a abnormally low price. They buy tanker loads of Canadian syrup. Very little of it goes into small container for retail sales. Most either go into large containers for food service use or into their many value added products. Because the Canadian syrup cartel stores the stuff in barrels, sometimes for years the quality and flavor is often lacking.

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## ripjack13

sprucegum said:


> the Canadian syrup cartel

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## sprucegum

I don't think we will ever know the whole truth about the great syrup heist. The cartel seeks to control the price by controlling the supply. Maple like any agricultural commodity is weather dependant, on bumper years they store the surplus to keep the price high and release it on lean years to meet demand. After a series of good years the wearhouse was full so what do you do? Sell and depress the price or hang on to it and risk spoilage ( it won't keep for ever). As luck would have it thieves stole it and sold it at low prices depressing the market, hurting US producers and insurance companies picked up the tab. The theft did not happen over night it happened over a period of time. Draw your own conclusion.

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## Mike Hill

You don't mean that there are men and women out there that stoop to conspiracies! Say it ain't so!!!!

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## Mike1950

sprucegum said:


> I don't think we will ever know the whole truth about the great syrup heist. The cartel seeks to control the price by controlling the supply. Maple like any agricultural commodity is weather dependant, on bumper years they store the surplus to keep the price high and release it on lean years to meet demand. After a series of good years the wearhouse was full so what do you do? Sell and depress the price or hang on to it and risk spoilage ( it won't keep for ever). As luck would have it thieves stole it and sold it at low prices depressing the market, hurting US producers and insurance companies picked up the tab. The theft did not happen over night it happened over a period of time. Draw your own conclusion.


I was already thinking inside job. Not very plausible to steal 1,000s of gallons of syrup without good access. and it really does not seem like an easy product to steal. you are not hauling it out in your lunchbox or trunk of car. Need big trucks. hard to see how you miss semi trucks loading up barrels of syrup unless your eyes are shut or you are being paid to not look...

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## sprucegum

Mike Hill said:


> You don't mean that there are men and women out there that stoop to conspiracies! Say it ain't so!!!!


Well they conspired to steal it. Beyond that is of course speculation. Locally it drove our prices down. We get a premium over the Canadian bulk price because they can package and resell as VT product however Canada still controls the base price.

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## Mike Hill

sprucegum said:


> Well they conspired to steal it. Beyond that is of course speculation. Locally it drove our prices down. We get a premium over the Canadian bulk price because they can package and resell as VT product however Canada still controls the base price.


Heck, my world is small - I thought it was only a bunch of grumpy old men in plaid hats that made and sold maple syrup!

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## Wildthings

Mike Hill said:


> Heck, my world is small - I thought it was only a bunch of grumpy old men in *plaid hats* that made and sold maple syrup!


I see what you did there!! You said plaid instead of camouflaged. @Don Ratcliff you're not!!

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## sprucegum

Mike Hill said:


> Heck, my world is small - I thought it was only a bunch of grumpy old men in plaid hats that made and sold maple syrup.




Not any more, 10,000 tap operations are becoming quite common and a few over 100,000. Eathan Allen Furniture had a factory north of here in Essex county. They closed it and after sitting vacant a few years a corporate maple operation bought it and rehabbed it to produce maple syrup. They have several evaporators running at one time and employ a full time crew to work on pipeline and equipment. Maple sugaring used to be something farmers did in the spring to make a little extra cash. Now quite a few people make their entire income from it. If you take it all the way from the tree to consumer and have a full line of maple products it's a big undertaking.

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## Mike Hill

Wildthings said:


> @Don Ratcliff you're not!!



I try very hard not to be!!

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## Mike Hill

Wildthings said:


> I see what you did there!! You said plaid instead of camouflaged. @Don Ratcliff you're not!!


Besides, he may have some purdy wood that I'd like to buy someday!

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## sprucegum

Still have not forgotten I look at it every time I walk into the shop. I reckon it would take a whole 5 minutes to knock off enough corners to fit a lfrb and take a picture.

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## Mr. Peet

Dave, does VT have candy tax? I know in NY producers sell maple candy but call it shaped sugar cubes, because there is no tax on maple sugar but is on maple candy.

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## sprucegum

Mr. Peet said:


> Dave, does VT have candy tax? I know in NY producers sell maple candy but call it shaped sugar cubes, because there is no tax on maple sugar but is on maple candy.


There is a sin tax on products which contain added sugar. Maple producers successfully argued that maple candy is a natural product with nothing added. So called maple blend candy which is primarily cane sugar with a little maple for flavor and color is taxed.

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## sprucegum

Mike1950 said:


> I was already thinking inside job. Not very plausible to steal 1,000s of gallons of syrup without good access. and it really does not seem like an easy product to steal. you are not hauling it out in your lunchbox or trunk of car. Need big trucks. hard to see how you miss semi trucks loading up barrels of syrup unless your eyes are shut or you are being paid to not look...


I never really thought about the magnitude of the project until today. A 8000 gallon tanker load @ $2/pound Maple syrup weighs 11 pound/gallon would be valued at around $176,000. They stole $18,000,000 worth without being noticed.

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## Mike1950

sprucegum said:


> I never really thought about the magnitude of the project until today. A 8000 gallon tanker load @ $2/pound Maple syrup weighs 11 pound/gallon would be valued at around $176,000. They stole $18,000,000 worth without being noticed.


My guess is syrup cartel was after Us market. You cannot lose 100 semi trucks full of syrup without noticing the traffic.

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## ripjack13

Look what I have stashed in my pantry....









From my relatives there on my moms side.

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## ripjack13

Here's some more info on the syrup heist....









Behold the Tale of the Man Who Stole $18.7 Million Dollars Worth of Maple Syrup From Quebec


He was sentenced to five years in prison today. ...




www.foodandwine.com

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## Wildthings

ripjack13 said:


> Look what I have stashed in my pantry....
> 
> View attachment 205338
> 
> View attachment 205339
> 
> From my relatives there on my moms side.


Don't let the cartel see that!

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## sprucegum

Are you still sugaring @ripjack13 ? Think we are going to have a good week next week. It's been kind of a slow start, boiled for the second time last night. I didn't hang around until they were done but it was looking like they would go over 100 gallons. We had over 5000 gallons of sap.

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## ripjack13

sprucegum said:


> Are you still sugaring @ripjack13 ? Think we are going to have a good week next week. It's been kind of a slow start, boiled for the second time last night. I didn't hang around until they were done but it was looking like they would go over 100 gallons. We had over 5000 gallons of sap.



I am. I just filled another 5 gallon bucket. I have 15 gallons to boil up either tomorrow or monday. But by monday I may have another 5 gal depending on this weather.
I checked my big maple yesterday, it was a steady stream out of the tubes! I didn't realize a tree could produce so much so fast...

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## Nubsnstubs

ripjack13 said:


> I am. I just filled another 5 gallon bucket. I have 15 gallons to boil up either tomorrow or monday. But by monday I may have another 5 gal depending on this weather.
> I checked my big maple yesterday, it was a steady stream out of the tubes! I didn't realize a tree could produce so much so fast...


When I worked at Petrified Forest, there was a stand alone Cottonwood near the north south road that was near a natural spring fed pond. I was told that during the summer months this Cottonwood would drink over 500 gallons a day. You getting only 5 gallons a day is minimal I would guess. 
One question about your sap gathering. Do you have flies and other insects hovering or crawling around your buckets??? ........... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## Mr. Peet

Nubsnstubs said:


> When I worked at Petrified Forest, there was a stand alone Cottonwood near the north south road that was near a natural spring fed pond. I was told that during the summer months this Cottonwood would drink over 500 gallons a day. You getting only 5 gallons a day is minimal I would guess.
> One question about your sap gathering. Do you have flies and other insects hovering or crawling around your buckets??? ........... Jerry (in Tucson)


So a few things to recall, your Cottonwood was in leaf, photosynthesizing, transduction in process, Kelvin cycle working. With stomatal action, this greatly increases transpiration, requiring more water. Often the hotter the day (and night) the more water used. Sugaring is toward the end of the dormant season, so no leaves yet. The season quickly tapers off when nights start staying above freezing. Lots of operators will shut down to minimize bacteria growth in equipment and if the sugar percentages drop too low. We called it quits if percents were below 1.0. Below 1.25, was even starting to draw question. As the percent drops, more fuel is used to cook / boil off water. Having reverse osmosis in your system changes those percentages good a bit. So, often the percentages drop off quickly and the process is over before the insects become an issue. However, birds and rodents can also be pests. Many a line gets damaged by chewing mice and squirrels (both in storage and during use). Deer and bear also can quickly wipe out or should I say add lots of line maintenance. Bucket trees, well, have had bears lift lids for a drink and wood peckers tap holes in the plastic buckets. Loads of fun with the trade. Sure Dave has some great stories. Look forward to Rip's take as well.

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## Mike1950

Trimmed winter damage on a couple hard maples. like i turned a small hose on. water/sap dripping like crazy... trees are amazing water pumps...

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## ripjack13

Nubsnstubs said:


> When I worked at Petrified Forest, there was a stand alone Cottonwood near the north south road that was near a natural spring fed pond. I was told that during the summer months this Cottonwood would drink over 500 gallons a day. You getting only 5 gallons a day is minimal I would guess.
> One question about your sap gathering. Do you have flies and other insects hovering or crawling around your buckets??? ........... Jerry (in Tucson)


No bugs. Its still too cold for those pests. Ha!

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## ripjack13

Got another batch boiling up today. Started at 10am. Still have 15 gallons to go! May have to finish up on Monday....

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## ripjack13

7 cups! Nice n dark!!!

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## Wildthings

My misplaced Texas Brother is really getting into the syrup making. Went and bought more buckets today and some extra tubs to bury in the snow. So far he has 48 oz of finished syrup and lots more sap to boil.

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## Barb

ripjack13 said:


> 7 cups! Nice n dark!!!
> 
> View attachment 205626


Yummm!!

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## ripjack13

I had some this morning with some waffles. Mmmm mmmm good!

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## ripjack13

I have 10 gallons left to boil up, most likely on Monday....

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## Lou Currier



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## B Rogers

I may have missed it at some point in the thread, but how do you know when the moisture content is just right and it’s time to stop cooking? I’ve got several red maples around so I may give it a shot next year. Are there any taste differences among the different maples? Very cool thread.


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## ripjack13

B Rogers said:


> I may have missed it at some point in the thread, but how do you know when the moisture content is just right and it’s time to stop cooking? I’ve got several red maples around so I may give it a shot next year. Are there any taste differences among the different maples? Very cool thread.



I have no idea. I just go by looks when i dip my spoon in.
If I keep doing this then I'll get a hydrometer.
Once it's in the house on the stove and boiled down to about 2" full in the pan then it will want to keep foaming up on me. Thats when I know it's done.
It's mostly trial and error for me. A few youtube videos and I'm good. I learn as I go.
I'll get more pics tonight and do some more write ups as I'm doing it. This way I'll remember for next year, and other's who may want to try it.

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## Wildthings

Lou Currier said:


> View attachment 205726


Hey that's my brother's place!!

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## Mr. Peet

B Rogers said:


> I may have missed it at some point in the thread, but how do you know when the moisture content is just right and it’s time to stop cooking? I’ve got several red maples around so I may give it a shot next year. Are there any taste differences among the different maples? Very cool thread.


Moisture content..??... You tap when the sap starts to rise, your local DNR can help with timing. Another way is break a small live maple branch, about 1/2" diameter, on New Years day. Watch it for the next few weeks. Once you see sapcicles (icicles), sap is rising, taping time is near.

Buy a candy thermometer, know your latitude and elevation, then look up your temperature range for syrup based on those. Then you know to start watching close as you approach your range to limit the chance of scorch. Dip method like Rip does works too. For starters, that should help.

Red maples often run a 50:1 ratio to as much as 60:1. Often higher percentages as you go south. The soft maples often produce a cloudier syrup. Your first runs are often your best quality and color grades (light colors). As you progress in the season, grade often drops as color darkens. It is a viscosity thing, not color when making maple syrup.

As for taste differences in the maples, almost null. If using a wood fire, cooking longer increases the chance of ash or smoke influencing flavor, but not much other since it is the same bass sugar for each of the native maples.

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## B Rogers

I was wondering if you look for a certain moisture content when cooking to know you’ve reached the “syrup“ stage. Thanks for all the info. I’m going to give it a shot next year.

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## sprucegum

B Rogers said:


> I was wondering if you look for a certain moisture content when cooking to know you’ve reached the “syrup“ stage. Thanks for all the info. I’m going to give it a shot next year.


Water boils @212 and raw sap not much higher. As the water is evaporated the sap becomes sweeter and the boiling point increases. When it gets to about 218 it is close enough to the correct density for the hobby sugar maker. Anyone selling syrup needs to be more accurate too satisfy regulations and will probably use a syrup hydrometer.

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## Mr. Peet

Runs similar here, boils at 209 and run off between 214 and 216. Thus my elevation comment. Barometric pressure can also change things a smidge to temperatures and drawing.

Kid next hill over uses the propane turkey deep fryer when fire risks are high and an outdoor wood fired pit evaporator when snow is still on the ground. He dips a string and spoons it to a level that looks, feels and tastes right. He is happy, so works for us.

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## ripjack13

All done for the season.

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## ripjack13



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## ripjack13

I need a nap....

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## Wildthings

ripjack13 said:


> I need a nap....


SUGAR HIGH causes that

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## ripjack13

Yep....


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## sprucegum

Back in the day Vermont syrup grades were fancy, A, and B. A old guy around here added his own grade for the dark late season stuff , he labeled it DB. When ask what DB was he would reply dam black. I think @ripjack13 has all of the grades now.

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## Mr. Peet

sprucegum said:


> Back in the day Vermont syrup grades were fancy, A, and B. A old guy around here added his own grade for the dark late season stuff , he labeled it DB. When ask what DB was he would reply dam black. I think @ripjack13 has all of the grades now.


We had 5 or 6 grades for syrup, none being lettered. Been too long. Think it was Fancy, light amber, amber, dark amber, and dark. Not sure when they adopted the letter grading, just happy to be able to enjoy the taste of the real thing.

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## Mike Hill

For most of my life I seem to have had an inate bias toward darker liquids - chocolate syrup, black coffee, strong tea, dark tannic red wines, peaty scotches, barrel run bourbons, elderberry jelly, stouts, dark wildflower honey - and NOW - something to look forward to...... DB maple syrup - now, where can I find some!!!!


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## sprucegum

Mike Hill said:


> For most of my life I seem to have had an inate bias toward darker liquids - chocolate syrup, black coffee, strong tea, dark tannic red wines, peaty scotches, barrel run bourbons, elderberry jelly, stouts, dark wildflower honey - and NOW - something to look forward to...... DB maple syrup - now, where can I find some!!!!


It usually comes later in the season. Anything that is darker than dark robust grade is called c or commercial grade. It is usually used to give some maple flavor to salad dressing, barbeque sauce, and maple blend candy. Some even goes into chewing tobacco. One large producer dealer in our area keeps making syrup as long as the trees will run and way past when the syrup is even remotely edible because he has a contract with a tabacco company. My wife always saves a couple gallons of c grade to cook with. She uses very little else as sweetner for cooking.

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## B Rogers

Are the spiles left in the trees year round or are they removed after the season?


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## sprucegum

B Rogers said:


> Are the spiles left in the trees year round or are they removed after the season?


They are supposed to be removed, occasionally one gets missed but you usually find them the next season.

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## B Rogers

sprucegum said:


> They are supposed to be removed, occasionally one gets missed but you usually find them the next season.


Once they’re removed, does anything need to be done to the holes to prevent pests/disease from taking over? Sorry if that’sa silly question but just trying to think of everything I can while it’s fresh on my mind.


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## sprucegum

No they just heal over and you try to keep the holes evenly spread around the trunk. Although the holes are not particularly good fo the tree I have taken down dead or nearly dead trees to mill for lumber or burn for firewood that are 200 years old and have old tap holes burried within that predate the civil war. If you start tapping a tree anually when it is 10" DBH and use only 1 tap/year the experts say it is good for about 100 years of production.

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## B Rogers

sprucegum said:


> No they just heal over and you try to keep the holes evenly spread around the trunk. Although the holes are not particularly good fo the tree I have taken down dead or nearly dead trees to mill for lumber or burn for firewood that are 200 years old and have old tap holes burried within that predate the civil war. If you start tapping a tree anually when it is 10" DBH and use only 1 tap/year the experts say it is good for about 100 years of production.


Thank you sir. That’s pretty neat. I’ll have to look up how many taps are suitable for each tree I have.


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## B Rogers

I have 7-20+” diameter red maples close by. We’ll see how it goes next year.


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## sprucegum

B Rogers said:


> I have 7-20+” diameter red maples close by. We’ll see how it goes next year.


Red maple does not heal as well as sugar maple I would not do more than 2/tree. Even if you only do 1/tree you should get close to 2 gallons of syrup.

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## B Rogers

sprucegum said:


> Red maple does not heal as well as sugar maple I would not do more than 2/tree. Even if you only do 1/tree you should get close to 2 gallons of syrup.


I’ll probably keep it to 1 just to be safe. Is that 2 gal/day or per week?


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## sprucegum

B Rogers said:


> I’ll probably keep it to 1 just to be safe. Is that 2 gal/day or per week?


Two gallons of finished syrup per season. Average around here for traditional non vacuum sugaring is about a gallon of finished product for every 4 taps.

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## Mike Hill

sprucegum said:


> It usually comes later in the season. Anything that is darker than dark robust grade is called c or commercial grade. It is usually used to give some maple flavor to salad dressing, barbeque sauce, and maple blend candy. Some even goes into chewing tobacco. One large producer dealer in our area keeps making syrup as long as the trees will run and way past when the syrup is even remotely edible because he has a contract with a tabacco company. My wife always saves a couple gallons of c grade to cook with. She uses very little else as sweetner for cooking.


Ok, was at Trader Joe's last night to buy some goat milk cream cheese (it's really good) ..........Yes, I know they are from California and probably know squat about maple syrup, but....... looking thru their maple syrup offerings they had one labled Grade A on a medallion and in some of the jargon they mentioned dark robust. It seemed kinda darker than the others - what do you think this is?


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## sprucegum

Mike Hill said:


> Ok, was at Trader Joe's last night to buy some goat milk cream cheese (it's really good) ..........Yes, I know they are from California and probably know squat about maple syrup, but....... looking thru their maple syrup offerings they had one labled Grade A on a medallion and in some of the jargon they mentioned dark robust. It seemed kinda darker than the others - what do you think this is?


Well I really don't know. Like I said before our grades used to be fancy, A, B, and C. Since then they have changed a few times. What we have now is Golden delicate, medium amber, amber rich , dark robust. Pretty sure it will be quite dark

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## sprucegum

Well Burke Mountain Maple Company is done for another year. Did the last boil yesterday and was it ever hot in the sugar shack. Really don't need a 2000 degree fire when it's 75 outside. I have not heard the final tally yet but a few days ago it was over 1200 gallons so I am guessing about on par with last year's 1500. The quality and flavor was excellent. Now just a few thousand taps to pull, equipment to clean, and a empty wood shed to fill.

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## William Tanner

This has been an interesting thread and really enjoyed it. Always wondered how this process worked.

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## Wildthings

My misplaced Texan Brother is finishing his last boil up today. 2 gallons of syrup total produced and he is hooked. Already looking for equipment for next year. @sprucegum I told him in the beginning what you said about it being "addictive" and he just laughed. He's not laughing anymore

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## sprucegum

Wildthings said:


> My misplaced Texan Brother is finishing his last boil up today. 2 gallons of syrup total produced and he is hooked. Already looking for equipment for next year. @sprucegum I told him in the beginning what you said about it being "addictive" and he just laughed. He's not laughing anymore
> 
> View attachment 206944 View attachment 206945


Yup it's hard to get out of your system. It happens the time of year when winter activities are winding down and spring is not quite happening. If my son was not into it in a big way I'm sure that I would be tapping a couple hundred trees in the back yard. The way it is suits me pretty well he taps my four hundred trees, I help when I am needed and get all of the syrup that I want.

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## ripjack13

sprucegum said:


> Well I really don't know. Like I said before our grades used to be fancy, A, B, and C. Since then they have changed a few times. What we have now is Golden delicate, medium amber, amber rich , dark robust. Pretty sure it will be quite dark



Amber rich and dark robust are my favorite. I may have order a gallon of em. Mines almost gone!

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## Mike1950

ripjack13 said:


> Amber rich and dark robust are my favorite. I may have order a gallon of em. Mines almost gone!


what!!!! you just made them!!!

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## Mr. Peet

I had lent my turkey fryer out to the kid across town. He had a few propane tanks without the quick connect, and his fryer only works with the quick connect. I also gave him an adapter so he can make his own line for old tanks or 100 pounders. He gave us a half pint of syrup as a thank you. Said he made 3 gallons with 4 trees. We had a longer than normal season down here.


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## ripjack13

Mike1950 said:


> what!!!! you just made them!!!


I gave a bunch away. And what I had left was mine and now is almost gone....

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## Wildthings

ripjack13 said:


> I gave a bunch away. And what I had left was mine and now is almost gone....


Speaking of giving some away. Some of these are supposed to be heading to TX from the New England area

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## Mike Hill

Ok, I have not been able to find me some "DARK" maple syrup. Is this an acceptable alternative?

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## sprucegum

No

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## sprucegum

Mike Hill said:


> Ok, I have not been able to find me some "DARK" maple syrup. Is this an acceptable alternative?
> 
> View attachment 207079


I messaged you with a link to a place that sells pure vermont wood fired maple syrup. If your A1c is running dangerously low I highly recommend the maple cream.

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## ripjack13

Wildthings said:


> Speaking of giving some away. Some of these are supposed to be heading to TX from the New England area
> View attachment 206976



Look at that. Fancy matching bottles too.

Reactions: Like 1


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