# Wondering why??



## T. Ben (May 16, 2019)

i made this bowl a month or so ago out of kiln dried Purple Heart,it’s been sitting on the dining room table ever since. Well the wife pointed out to me that it’s not round anymore it’s kinda oblong. I don’t know if it shows up well in the pics. Any ideas on why this would happen?


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## Tony (May 16, 2019)

What was the moisture content when you started to turn it? If the wood was still wet as it dries it will warp. Also it might be because of different humidity from your Shop to the house. Tony

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## T. Ben (May 16, 2019)

I have no idea of the moisture content,I bought it of eBay as kiln dried. My garage at the time was pretty wet. Even with butcher block oil it would still do that?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Smitty (May 16, 2019)

I've had some kiln dried walnut do that to me, and I still don't know the reason. Maybe the internal stress of the wood caused the movement after it was hollowed?


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## Tony (May 16, 2019)

Just because someone says the wood is dry doesn't mean it is. I would buy a moisture meter if I was you, about $30. Most guys will rough turn a bowl leaving it thick, let it sit and dry more, than finish turn it.


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## Karl_TN (May 16, 2019)

Cheaper moisture meters have a hard time determining moisture content in the middle of the thick blank. Might be a good reason to consider twice turning bowl blanks even if the seller says it was kiln dried.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## T. Ben (May 16, 2019)

I will look into getting one,any suggestions on the lower cost spectrum? Wouldn’t the oil seal it up? It has got humid over the last couple of days.


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## woodtickgreg (May 16, 2019)

Also remember, wood is always alive and it will always move.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## Sprung (May 16, 2019)

Rule #1 of woodworking: Wood ALWAYS moves. Count on it. Understand that it's going to happen and work with it in mind - and don't try to make things in a way where you've basically said, "Yeah, right, I know better and this will be just fine!" Search out online people who have built farmhouse tables with pocket screws where they've pocket screwed on the breadboard ends and you'll find a lot of people wondering why, after 6 months or a year, there's cracks and wood separation in their table. They didn't allow the wood to move, so it self-destructs (and they probably used construction lumber straight from the store, without understanding that their "kiln dried" framing lumber is anything but actually dry.)

As the seasons change, relative humidity changes, and the wood will release or take in moisture. And will move.

Another thing to keep in mind is that dry for someone else isn't dry for you. And you can kiln dry a piece of wood, but once you take it out of the kiln, it will take on moisture to match the EMC (equilibrium moisture content) of the environment it's in. So, if you buy a piece of wood from someone in the wet Pacific Northwest, they can say they kiln dried it, but it might have 12% moisture content because of the higher EMC or relative humidity of the area, whereas where you are, you might expect about 5 to 6% moisture content, or maybe a touch less sometimes. Take that piece of wood at 12% in the PNW and send it to my friend @Bean_counter down in Lubbock, TX and it'll move like crazy as it adjusts to the new EMC - it's so dry there, the piece will definitely move, probably twist, and in many instances may even crack at losing moisture that fast. @Mike1950 also has experience with this, buying wood by the truck and trailer full from the wetter coastal area and taking it to the other side of WA where he lives, where it is much drier - that's even just sometimes going from one end of the state to the other.

And then there's the shop EMC vs. house EMC. Unless your shop is climate controlled exactly the same as your house, there will likely be a difference of EMC between the two, which will also equate to wood movement in that piece that you finished and was perfectly round, but now after a month in a different environment isn't perfectly round.

Try this one for an inexpensive moisture meter. I have the same one, well, kind of. They've changed the way it looks since I bought mine.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 2 | Informative 1 | Useful 1


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## Tony (May 16, 2019)

That's the same meter I have, good and relatively inexpensive.


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## Woodworking Vet (May 16, 2019)

I stopped using a moisture meter only because it can't read the moisture in the middle of the wood. Instead I now weigh my blanks and write the weight and date right on it. I'll continue to weight it periodically and when it stops dropping in weight, or drops very little, I consider it dry.

Wood is full of stress. Even if you take the driest of blanks and turn them you will be relieving a lot of stress in the fibers, that will cause the wood to move some in many cases. Changes in humidity can have a little affect too.

My thought is that its perfectly fine to have an imperfect bowl. A hand crafted bowl can't be absolutely perfect. A factory crafted bowl though is usually perfect and perfectly duplicated. I would much rather have an imperfect hand made item than a perfect factory made item, if that makes sense.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Great Post 1


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## Mike1950 (May 16, 2019)

T. Ben said:


> I have no idea of the moisture content,I bought it of eBay as kiln dried. My garage at the time was pretty wet. Even with butcher block oil it would still do that?


Yep- it is going to dry unless you keep it in water. ebay is probably not the safest place to buy dry wood -that said -bigger the pieces the less likely they are dry. nature of beast

Reactions: Useful 1


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## barry richardson (May 16, 2019)

Turn twice is always the best policy, even if it is completely dry, internal stress can cause it to warp a bit, turn it, give it a few days, and turn it again. As far as kiln dried, the fir and redwood at homedepot claims to be kiln dried, and its usually still half green IMO, sot the standards for KD are pretty loose for sure....

Reactions: Agree 2


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## William Tanner (May 17, 2019)

Great thread. I often purposely turn bowls from wet wood anticipating the results of the wood moving. Thin and wet.

Reactions: Like 2


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## T. Ben (May 17, 2019)

Thanks everybody,I guess the wife will get to keep that one.


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## rocky1 (May 17, 2019)

Just tell everyone it is way more difficult to turn egg shaped bowls than it is to turn round ones. 

I got several cores from Doc, let them set in the shop for nearly a year to equalize, turned one of the bigger ones, a carob blank, and have never experienced anything moving like that one did. Would get it perfectly round on the outside turn a little on the inside, outside would be out of round again. Internal stresses play a huge roll in things. Don't under estimate them. Turn once let it set awhile and turn again before finishing.


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## T. Ben (May 17, 2019)

rocky1 said:


> Just tell everyone it is way more difficult to turn egg shaped bowls than it is to turn round ones.
> 
> I got several cores from Doc, let them set in the shop for nearly a year to equalize, turned one of the bigger ones, a carob blank, and have never experienced anything moving like that one did. Would get it perfectly round on the outside turn a little on the inside, outside would be out of round again. Internal stresses play a huge roll in things. Don't under estimate them. Turn once let it set awhile and turn again before finishing.


Never thought of that,would like to see someone’s face if you told them that. I guess I’ll have to get to work on some so they’ll be ready for next year.


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## phinds (May 17, 2019)

rocky1 said:


> Just tell everyone it is way more difficult to turn egg shaped bowls than it is to turn round ones.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## rocky1 (May 17, 2019)

Once you get past the initial look of bewilderment, and the thought processes kick in, someone is bound to ask how you do that. Be prepared with, "You just move your bowl gouge in and out real fast while the stock goes round and round. The tricky part is getting the timing down on the ins and outs so you don't take the high spots off." Then walk away slowly and leave them thinkin about it.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## SeanPEvans (May 18, 2019)

rocky1 said:


> Once you get past the initial look of bewilderment, and the thought processes kick in, someone is bound to ask how you do that. Be prepared with, "You just move your bowl gouge in and out real fast while the stock goes round and round. The tricky part is getting the timing down on the ins and outs so you don't take the high spots off." Then walk away slowly and leave them thinkin about it.


Ha, I meant to hit the “funny” rating, not “karma.” Still very new here


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## rocky1 (May 18, 2019)

Sean, when you click a wrong rating button, there is an "Undo Rating" link pops up where the buttons were. Click that and you can undo, and change the rating.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## SeanPEvans (May 18, 2019)

rocky1 said:


> Sean, when you click a wrong rating button, there is an "Undo Rating" link pops up where the buttons were. Click that and you can undo, and change the rating.


Right you were, thanks for the tip!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Karda (May 18, 2019)

if you want to keep it real simple tell it is wood from a tree not plastic, wood moves

Reactions: Like 1


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