# Southbend metal lathe find



## woodtickgreg

Well as some of you know I have been searching for a used metal lathe to improve the quality of the wood turning chisels that I make, and to use for making parts for just about anything! I finally scored one, it's a southbend heavy 10 with a gearbox and multiple speeds made in the 40's or 50's, all cast iron, even the stand and legs. The best part is I think I got a great price on it, $500. When I worked as a machinest in a mold shop I used a much larger southbend and I really liked it, I didn't think I would ever own one due to the fact that they hold their value. The cheapest I have seen this model was $1,500 and it was basicly used up and needed a complete rebuild, I have seen good ones sell for $3'000 or more. This one has been in storage for years in a shop in detroit and forgotten about. I was in the shop for my job and asked the shop owner about it and he said he was storing it for a friend and he would call him to see if he wanted to sell it, he did, and I jumped on it! I would put it at very good condition, just real dirty from being in storage for so long, as far as I can tell it only needs three parts and I can probably find them on feebay, The lathe will work untill I find them. It has no chuck, no tool post, or any tooling but it is a very solid start. Now I have a question for anyone that has knowledge of electric motors. The motor that is in this is only a 3/4 hp but it is wired for, if I remember right, 220/320/440 3 phase. If I change out the motor to a 220 2hp single phase would the power be the same or greater? I think that old motors of this era were true hp ratings compared to todays motors, Is this correct? It is going into my already crowded basement shop and I don't want to mess with a phase converter. Sorry about the long post but I am supper excited about this find. I will post pics when I get it home and reassembled, gotta take it down the stairs in pieces due to the weight.


----------



## Mike1950

Congrats on the great find-I knew you were looking. Phase converters don't take up much room and are probably cheaper then motor. 3 ph motors are much better. M


----------



## Brink

That is so cool. I'd love a southbend. That'll far outwork my Atlas 6".


----------



## woodtickgreg

Mike1950 said:


> Congrats on the great find-I knew you were looking. Phase converters don't take up much room and are probably cheaper then motor. 3 ph motors are much better. M


Mike, do you think that a 3/4 hp 3 phase will outperform a 2 hp 220v single phase?


----------



## woodtickgreg

Brink said:


> That is so cool. I'd love a southbend. That'll far outwork my Atlas 6".


And I think it's got a 1 3/8" spindle bore! I gotta get the exact model number to spec it out. I believe it will feed right and left also. I was looking for a logan and stumbled upon this.


----------



## Mike1950

woodtickgreg said:


> Mike1950 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on the great find-I knew you were looking. Phase converters don't take up much room and are probably cheaper then motor. 3 ph motors are much better. M
> 
> 
> 
> Mike, do you think that a 3/4 hp 3 phase will outperform a 2 hp 220v single phase?
Click to expand...


Good ol american steel- 1. if motor is original machine is probaly is geared to motor. Power should not be issue. 2 I do not know the power comparison. 3. if motor is not enough and converter is large enough getting a larger 3 pahse will be cheap. 4. I go back to 1. these machines were built to last and I bet that it has enough power the way it was built otherwise they would have disappeared. 5. From what I know about 3 ph motors is they never wear out.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Mike1950 said:


> woodtickgreg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike1950 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on the great find-I knew you were looking. Phase converters don't take up much room and are probably cheaper then motor. 3 ph motors are much better. M
> 
> 
> 
> Mike, do you think that a 3/4 hp 3 phase will outperform a 2 hp 220v single phase?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good ol american steel- 1. if motor is original machine is probaly is geared to motor. Power should not be issue. 2 I do not know the power comparison. 3. if motor is not enough and converter is large enough getting a larger 3 pahse will be cheap. 4. I go back to 1. these machines were built to last and I bet that it has enough power the way it was built otherwise they would have disappeared. 5. From what I know about 3 ph motors is they never wear out.
Click to expand...

It is the original motor. I wasn't trying to increase the power, Just replace with a comperable single phase.


----------



## LoneStar

Congrats on the find. I figured you would stumble onto one before long


----------



## HomeBody

I'd love to have one of those. I used one in a machine shop where I worked and it was a nice machine. Congrats! Gary


----------



## Kevin

woodtickgreg said:


> Mike1950 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on the great find-I knew you were looking. Phase converters don't take up much room and are probably cheaper then motor. 3 ph motors are much better. M
> 
> 
> 
> Mike, do you think that a 3/4 hp 3 phase will outperform a 2 hp 220v single phase?
Click to expand...


I don't think so even though you're correct about the HP ratings being dropped. It isn't rocket surgery to build a rotary converter though Greg. If you go through the trouble build a rotary not a static - static will deliver ~2/3 the horses the 3Ø motor is designed for. But if you want to replace the 3Ø motor with a 2 HP 1Ø the 2HP 1Ø will deliver more than a 3/4HP 3Ø even through a rotary converter. HP is HP. In the lower HP ranges like that the 3Ø is not a huge benefit unless it's continuous duty application. 

JMO

Congrats on the find. Either way you go you'll love it!


----------



## woodtickgreg

Kevin said:


> woodtickgreg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike1950 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on the great find-I knew you were looking. Phase converters don't take up much room and are probably cheaper then motor. 3 ph motors are much better. M
> 
> 
> 
> Mike, do you think that a 3/4 hp 3 phase will outperform a 2 hp 220v single phase?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think so even though you're correct about the HP ratings being dropped. It isn't rocket surgery to build a rotary converter though Greg. If you go through the trouble build a rotary not a static - static will deliver ~2/3 the horses the 3Ø motor is designed for. But if you want to replace the 3Ø motor with a 2 HP 1Ø the 2HP 1Ø will deliver more than a 3/4HP 3Ø even through a rotary converter. HP is HP. In the lower HP ranges like that the 3Ø is not a huge benefit unless it's continuous duty application.
> 
> JMO
> 
> Congrats on the find. Either way you go you'll love it!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input Kevin, I'm a little unsure just what I am going to do. I think I am going to look into the cost of a rotary converter to keep the lathe original, It's just so cool. I will look at the lathe to see what kind of motor mount it has when I get it home, in case I decide to swap the motor. I picked it up with my work truck today and it is on a pallet at my work. I am going to take it apart tomorrow after work and load it into my pick up truck so I can get it home and in the basement. I dont think I can move it assembled, all cast iron. I am going to do a little research and not rush into anything, I do think I am going to do a full restore on this one though. It is only missing 2 covers, one broken lever, and the on/off reverse switch mounting post is broken but can be welded. Parts for this can be found on feebay, I have already looked a little. If I remember to grab my camera in the morning I'll get some pics before I take it apart. It's not wood or wood working, but I'm going to use it to make wood turning tools.


----------



## Mike1950

Sounds like a cool tool. Make sure you take pictures along the way.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Mike1950 said:


> Sounds like a cool tool. Make sure you take pictures along the way.


oke doke will do!


----------



## woodtickgreg

Well I took the lathe apart to get it in my pickup, I took some photo's for some before, and I will probably do some alond the way as I refurb and tune it up. I don't think I will do a full on resto as all I want this to be is a good user. The ways are in great shape and that's one of the most important things with a metal lathe, and the spindle bearings seem to be tight also. I will check the spindle bearings further with a dial indicator. so here's the first pics.


----------



## woodtickgreg

A couple more.


----------



## Brink

Oooohhhh! I want it! That is some nice lathe!


----------



## EricJS

Wow - that's a beauty! Very good condition too - that lathe is gonna clean up REAL nice!


----------



## LoneStar

Sure blows my Jet 9X20 outta the water :bomb:


----------



## woodtickgreg

I have been doing a little research on the web and some machinest forums. Seems that quite a few people do run static converters on this lathe with good results. They do comment on the loss of hp but also note that this is an under drive lathe and you never notice it. Some static converters will also give you variable speed for fine tuning rpm. I watched a guy on you tube make a 100 thousands cut with it running a static converter and it ran beautifully. The under drive set up does not require a lot of hp or rpm. Couple things I like about a static converter are, cost, no moving parts, size is small so it can be mounted anywhere. I have time to figure this all out as I have a lot of work to do on this thing anyway before I even think about plugging it in.


----------



## txpaulie

Awesome find Greg!

You had better put my name on the list of hollowing-tool-wanters!

I know that if I had that thing, I'd be making suppressors TODAY!

p


----------



## Mike1950

$500- You stole it for that. COOL lathe.


----------



## Kevin

That thing just reeks with good 'ol postwar American quality. Yeah $500 is a steal. That's why I always urge newbies to look for the old American iron first. You can't buy that kind of quality at any price these days.


----------



## Mike1950

Yes it was made when we made great equipment-too bad we have forgotten how and why!! Great find Greg.....


----------



## woodtickgreg

Mike1950 said:


> $500- You stole it for that. COOL lathe.


I know! But for some reason I don't even feel guilty? The seller set the price, It was forgotten about in a storage area in an old building in detroit. I am going to buy a serial archive card from south bend to find out who it was sold to and what year, also need this card to buy parts from south bend.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Kevin said:


> That thing just reeks with good 'ol postwar American quality. Yeah $500 is a steal. That's why I always urge newbies to look for the old American iron first. You can't buy that kind of quality at any price these days.


I'm thinking 50's era? I took it apart to get it in my pick up to get it home. Man is it solid and thick cast iron! The machining and fitment of parts is top notch. I can't wait to tear into this thing and caress it back to life!


----------



## woodtickgreg

So I have been doing some research on some metal working forums and I have learned a great deal. By the serial number a guy on one of the forums ID's it at 1949, almost the end of it's production run and with some improvements like large degree wheels with higher definition. I have also learned that there is no reason to go with a bigger motor as this thing runs a leather belt and it would just slip anyway. A vfd phase converter is also the way to go to keep the original 3 phase 3/4 hp motor and forward reverse switch. The vfd converter will also give soft start and variable speed. Almost all the guys on the forum are running this setup on the same lathe with no issues and it is relatively inexspensive. I also like the small size of the vfd's. I still want to get a copy of the original serial number build card, it will also show who it was sold to and where, and what the specs are. I have found a source for a rebuild manual and all the felts that are needed to be replaced. This is gonna be so much fun, I haven't restored a tool since my delta band saw last summer.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Working on old machinery is so much fun! A friend helped me get the lathe out of my truck and into the basement today Let the tinkering begin. I have 5 parts loaded into the back of my car and ready to be taken to the sanblaster. The switch mount was broken and 1 of the weld shops I go to for my work welded it up for me no charge I'm going to chemicly strip the pedestal as I do not want to get any sand or grit in the bearings, they spin forever when you give em a spin by hand and make no noise, Like new. Ordered a rebuild kit with all the felt oil wicks and manual off of feebay and 4 different kinds of oil for the lathe. I got everything spinning freely by hand. Headstock and bed I will just hand sand and paint, The ways look absolutely amazing! No signs of wear what so ever, I think a buffing pad and some oil will be all that is needed to make em shine. I put a bid on a couple of parts on feebay, should know tomorrow if my offer was accepted.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Last week I took some parts of the lathe to a media blaster and had them blasted with aluminum oxide to remove the paint and rust if any from the legs, chip pan, switch mount, pedestal access covers and door. They came out really nice! Sunday I finally got some time to work on this project. Got lots of pics If anyone here likes pics After the pan was blasted I marked some holes to be tig welded that the previous owner drilled in the pan for a bunch of crappy brackets for? Then I moved on to priming and painting, 2 coats of primer and 2 coats of paint.


----------



## woodtickgreg

These photo's show what the parts looked like when I got them back from the blaster and with the 2 coats of rust oleum proffessional primer from a rattle can. I have used rust oleum paint on other machinery restore and find that it fills porosity in cast iron well and gives a nice durable finish that's not to glossy. See how it filled the porosity.[attachment=7351][attachment=7352][attachment=7353][attachment=7354][attachment=7355][attachment=7356][attachment=7357] Bare in mind that I am not going for a museum quality restore here, this lathe will be a user! I'll post pics with the 2 topcoats also.


----------



## drycreek

Looking good!


----------



## woodtickgreg

And while I was waiting for coats of paint to dry I started to chemically strip the cast iron pedestal that weighs a ton even with the 3 phase motor out of it. Notice that I put it on a wheeled dolly to move it around. If I was so smart I wouldn't have started stripping and scraping this thing in the hottest part of the day! Have I mentioned that I hate the heat!!! Glad the stripping is done though applied the stripper and easily removed the first layer of primer that the previous owner sprayed all over everything. Applied stripper again and it just kinda softened the original paint so that I could scrape it off with a sharp putty knife. Wiped the whole thing down afterwards with a scotch brite pad and mineral spirits, The stripper did not remove the original red oxide primer but that's ok, no need to really. All I gotta do know is get a day off and sand with a random orbit sander and prime and paint to match the rest of the parts.


----------



## woodtickgreg

So this is what the final color will be, a nice machinery gray to match my hair color! I also thought it apropriate for a machine that was made in 1949. I found out some of the history of this machine by ordering a copy of the original serial number build card from south bend through grizzly who is now the parts distributor for south bend. I also recieved a rebuild kit That I ordered from feebay to replace all the felt oiling wicks. This is an old school machine that you have to oil, no sealed bearings here! An interesting design of this lathe is that the main spindle runs in a bed of oil like the crankshaft in an engine. And that's why something that was made 70 years ago still works like new and holds a tolerance. I love old american Iron!!![attachment=7367][attachment=7368][attachment=7369][attachment=7370]


----------



## Brink

You're doing a heck of job there. I'm really enjoying this.


----------



## Kevin

Looking good Greg. I might have went with a fire engine red and a chartreuse racing tripe down the middle but gray still looks good.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Kevin said:


> Looking good Greg. I might have went with a fire engine red and a chartreuse racing tripe down the middle but gray still looks good.


There will be some red, but you'll have to wait n see found some factory red under the layers in a preliminary exam. I do want to stay true to southbend, just not museum quality.


----------



## Kevin

woodtickgreg said:


> There will be some red, but you'll have to wait n see found some factory red under the layers in a preliminary exam. I do want to stay true to southbend, just not museum quality.



That's funny about the red I was just ribbing you (because I have never done that before and wanted to try it  ) 

Can't wait to see it, and especially can't wait to see what comes off of it.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Kevin said:


> I was just ribbing you (because I have never done that before and wanted to try it  )
> 
> Can't wait to see it, and especially can't wait to see what comes off of it.


OOOOOH you lie like a rug! If you didn't rib me and poke fun at me it wouldn't be any fun! Lord knows I poke at you now and again


----------



## Mike1950

Greg, Kevin makes such an easy and available target.
Lathe looking great............


----------



## HomeBody

Lookin' good! I just found a South Bend lathe myself. Went to buy a trailer to haul logs from one of my neighbors. When I told him it was for hauling walnut logs, he said he had 2 in his barn and gave them to me. One walnut tree cut in two. 24" base X 15'. WHOO HOO! 

In the corner of the barn half buried was a lathe. I dug the stuff off of it enough to see "South Bend" on the plate. It's a smaller benchtop lathe. I'm now negotiating for it. If I get this lathe I'm gonna be picking your brain WoodTickGreg. Trailer, walnut, lathe...this guy had it all!! Gary


----------



## LoneStar

I'm enjoying this post. Keep the pics coming


----------



## woodtickgreg

Homebody, I hope you get the lathe! Old school southbend, nothing like it, all the manufacturers of the time tried to copy or imitate southbend. Barn finds are cool, mine was a warehouse find that was stored and forgotten about.
Lonestar, I'm glad you are enjoying this, I was wondering if people would have an interest in this since it's not a wood machine. But it does show what can be done with old machinery of any kind and a little elbow grease. wouldn't it be cool to find an old giant crescent "c" frame cast iron bandsaw, or a 16" oliver jointer, or ? I am having fun on this project taking something old and making it new again.


----------



## CodyS

lookin' great greg! Can't wait to see it all done!


----------



## woodtickgreg

So I got the chip pan back from the welder, tig welded the unused holes up, and ground them smooth with a angle grinder and 50 n 80 grit disc. Then I 2 coated the primer and 2 coated the paint like the other parts.[attachment=7421][attachment=7422][attachment=7423][attachment=7424][attachment=7425][attachment=7426]


----------



## woodtickgreg

Gave the same treatment to the base, except just 150 grit with a random orbit sander.[attachment=7427][attachment=7428][attachment=7430][attachment=7432][attachment=7433][attachment=7434]


----------



## woodtickgreg

And here's all the parts stuffed into the kiln, uh I mean garage. I'll let them sit in there for a week or so to fully cure the paint before I start to assemble the base.[attachment=7436]


----------



## DKMD

What are those woody goodies to the left of the chip pan in the last photo? Limb burls? What about those thick gnarly looking slabs just above them? 

The lathe looks great, but that wood looks positively delicious!


----------



## woodtickgreg

DKMD said:


> What are those woody goodies to the left of the chip pan in the last photo? Limb burls? What about those thick gnarly looking slabs just above them?
> 
> The lathe looks great, but that wood looks positively delicious!


Good eye David, Some unknown burls on sticks from alaska, some red oak burls, some walnut chunks, One entire stack is walnut w/crotchwood, and assorted whole flitch cut ash, cherry, elm, norway maple, hard maple, and iduno cuz I'm old and forget stuff. Most of the lumber is cut 5/4 to 2 and 3 inch thick, 6 to 10 foot in length, and up to 30" ish wide. All stickerd and air dried in the garage/kiln for years. Just part of my wood stash, all domestic lumber saved from the landfill or burn pile. Oh and I can work metal and fix things too! so many projects so little time. I need a barn!


----------



## LoneStar

woodtickgreg said:


> DKMD said:
> 
> 
> 
> I need a barn!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do need a barn. In my backyard. I'll keep it safe from Kowea.
Click to expand...


----------



## woodtickgreg

So last week I finally got some time to work on the lathe a little more, going to strip the bed for painting, and to clean and inspect all parts and replace as needed. Here's a few pics. Notice the grey primer over spray on everything!

[attachment=7757]

This is a shot of the only damaged gear on the unit and it is not one that usually goes bad, it's the one that meshes with it that usually fails. any way I found one on e bay for cheap.

[attachment=7758]

Light rust on 2 of the cone pullys, see the shiney spot where I sanded with a little 320 grit.

[attachment=7759]

[attachment=7761]


----------



## woodtickgreg

A few more pics. You can still see the original scrape marks on the compound slid base.[attachment=7766] This is a shot of the threading dial, it was pretty rusty and grungy, cleaned up well with a little sanding with 320[attachment=7767] This is a shot of the ways directly under where the chuck would be. Looks rusty in the pic but it's not, will clean up real good and shiney, no wear grooves at all![attachment=7768] The pencil point is used for a size reference to the only damage to the ways, very small and slight, will not effect the accuracy of the machine at all.[attachment=7769]


----------



## woodtickgreg

In these pics you can see that I have removed everything for cleaning and to strip and paint the headstock. You can also see that I cleaned up the cone pullys with 220 then 320 sand paper, it was easier while it was still in the headstock. [attachment=7770] Everything came apart with out any trouble, even the taper pins that are usually a bugger popped right out with a punch and a good wack with a hammer. All the gears came right off, even the back gear.[attachment=7771]


----------



## woodtickgreg

Everything has been coming along very good, a little to good maybe? I found my first problem, and it's a big one! Looking at the bearing caps from the outside you would never know what lurks within. When I pulled the caps to remove the spindle assembly I found that someone had replaced the original one piece bearings with a shop made 2 piece bearing. Not a big deal except that he drilled and tapped the cast iron body and caps for screws to keep the bearings from spinning! He buggered up 2 of the adjustment screws in the cap and drilled them out, essentially ruining the cap. I am so bummed:sad: My only hope for now is to find a used replacement headstock with the caps, bearings, and all screws for adjustment. I saw a complete headstock on ebay one morning but I had to go to work and didn't order it. I raced home after work to order it but it was gone. Head stocks for these are not easy to come by. So I guess for now I will carry on and continue with stripping the bed of the gearbox and carriage, and continue stripping parts for painting, clean the shiney parts and degrease everything. I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope one turns up and keep searching. Here's the pics of the ruined parts.:sad: [attachment=7772][attachment=7773][attachment=7774][attachment=7775]


----------



## Kevin

Greg you are an inspiration to anyone who still has enough brains to see what you're doing actually means something. If I have my way I'm going to try and institute a Wood Barter scholarship in your name to one of your local high schools. No BS. I can't promise but I'll give it my best shot. If your local schools won't do it we'll figure out how we can do it on our own. 


"American Iron Restoration."

I believe that acronym is AIR.

Let's get it airborne.


----------



## Brink

Greg, you're doing an awesome job. 

I bet that head stock is very salvageable. A good engine machine shop can redo those caps, then line bore the stock and caps.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Brink said:


> Greg, you're doing an awesome job.
> 
> I bet that head stock is very salvageable. A good engine machine shop can redo those caps, then line bore the stock and caps.


I do not dissagree with the line bore thing, but cast is a bear to weld effectivly, the bore sizes are 2 different sizes, one cap needs extensive repair, and I'm still missing the original bearings, and threaded keyways to adjust the bearings. All of this can be done, but at what cost? I saw, and missed, a complete headstock with all the gears, covers, and complete spindle assy for $175.00. I think if I could find another one to complete my project, and then sell what I don't need to someone else who needs parts for their machine, my cost might come down?


----------



## woodtickgreg

Kevin said:


> Greg you are an inspiration to anyone who still has enough brains to see what you're doing actually means something. If I have my way I'm going to try and institute a Wood Barter scholarship in your name to one of your local high schools. No BS. I can't promise but I'll give it my best shot. If your local schools won't do it we'll figure out how we can do it on our own.
> 
> 
> "American Iron Restoration."
> 
> I believe that acronym is AIR.
> 
> Let's get it airborne.


Kevin, Thanks for the kind words, but I am really nothing special. There are home machinest all over the country doing the very same thing I am doing for the very same reasons. This is a piece of americas history and industrial revolution. I just thought I would share it with my friends here on the barter to maybe inspire them to restore some old american iron. Even with the ups and downs I will persevere with some time, and when it's done it will make it even sweeter! But I really like the air thing! Would make a great name for a company.


----------



## woodtickgreg

I found a guy on ebay that has 2 headstocks and will be posting for sale. I am negotiating with him on these. I am keeping my fingers crossed that I can get what I need to finish the repairs and restore on my lathe. The waiting to find out is killing me though, especially after missing the first one I saw. These do not come up for sale very often.


----------



## Brink

Fingers crossed


----------



## woodtickgreg

Sounds like the seller and I have a deal on a used headstock complete with spindle, bull gear, cone pullys and all the bearings, caps and adjusters. Were working out the details on the shipping and how to do payment. I'll feel relieved when I have it in my hands. He sold it to me for what I thought was a very fair price of $90.00 + shipping.


----------



## woodtickgreg

So after the ac repairman left today I got a little time in the nice cool base ment to work on the lathe a little more. The bed is now completely stripped of all parts and ready to be chemicaly paint stripped and repainted. Maybe I can do that this weekend.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Here's the bed stripped of all it's mechanical parts and ready for chemical stripping and repainting. 60+ years of crud is about to go away![attachment=8121][attachment=8122][attachment=8123] Here you can see the stripper working it's magic on the inside of the bed. Look at the name in the casting and observe later how well it cleaned up.[attachment=8124] The next few pics show what it looks like after the stripper and then wire wheeled to remove the stubborn bits.[attachment=8125][attachment=8126][attachment=8127] This pretty much says it all don't you think.[attachment=8128] The blue is masking tape to protect the ways while painting. They look nice and shiney, but this is not a final clean up on the ways yet.[attachment=8129][attachment=8130] The big heavy, and I mean heavy cast iron pedestal base or as some people call it the bell, is now down in the basement for some clean up on the pullys and jackshaft cone pullys. I am almost to the point where I can start reassembling parts as I refurb them. Once the painting on the bed is done I will assemble the bell, legs, drip pan and bed. I am waiting the delivery of the new/used headstock. I am having a great deal of fun refurbing this lathe, can't wait for the day when I throw the switch for the first time and get to adjust everything. By the time this thing is done I will be in need of some serious wood working time.
A.I.R. No chinese lathe in it's class will hold a candle to it.


----------



## Kenbo

Wow, this is looking fantastic. The masking tape scared the crap out of me and I thought you painted it blue for a second. There's something to be said about being on the computer before your first coffee and without your glasses. This is gonna be one bad @$$ looking machine.


----------



## LoneStar

I think we're almost as excited as you to see it done.
Excellent machine and excellent work Sir.


----------



## DKMD

Man, that Kroger brand coffee is strong stuff... It ate the paint right off of that lathe!


----------



## woodtickgreg

DKMD said:


> Man, that Kroger brand coffee is strong stuff... It ate the paint right off of that lathe!


Now that's funny! LMAO


----------



## woodtickgreg

I got the replacement headstock last week and everything looks good. The seller did a great job packaging it for shipment, he even built a maple crate inside of the cardboard box and bolted the headstock to it. UPS just sucks! The box arrived with 2 corners blown out and the crate inside was absolutely destroyed! Every board was broken in half and 1 of the bolts securing the head stock to the base board fell out. I can only imagine the damage if the seller had not made the crate for it. The head stock is ok and survived somehow without any damage. Now some of you know I ruptured my bicep in my left arm and I am scheduled for surgery to repair it on tuesday. So I could not move the 75# box and headstock into my basement with 1 arm. So I asked the wife to help me, she did it but bitched all the way down the stairs with the dolly. I will try to get a couple of pics of what little progress I have made so far after the injury, it has really slowed me down.:sad:


----------



## woodtickgreg

So here's a couple of pics of the new used headstock. It has a good coating of oil and grunge on the inside and that's a good thing as it shows that it was well lubed and oiled, I hope! I will have to wait till after the surgery to tear it apart and inspect it, might be a few weeks till the doc says I can do things. I will be in a cast for a week and then a brace. The good thing is I will have a few spare parts and be able to pic the best parts for the rebuild.[attachment=8392][attachment=8393]


----------



## woodtickgreg

Here's a few pic's of the bed painted, the red is true to the original south bend colors, I found that out when stripping the paint. Kevin here's the red you requsted but no chartruese The masking tape will be left on the ways to protect them until I start to assemble it.[attachment=8394][attachment=8395][attachment=8396][attachment=8397][attachment=8398][attachment=8399]


----------



## woodtickgreg

I thought this was kinda cool, the original build card and date that it was manufactured, and who it was sold to. It appears that this lathe spent it's whole life in the Detroit area. Also kinda cool is how every part on it has a serial number. Lota cool and useful information.
[attachment=8870][attachment=8871]


----------



## LoneStar

Wonder what the 1949 pricetag looked like


----------



## woodtickgreg

LoneStar said:


> Wonder what the 1949 pricetag looked like


Funny, I wondered about that myself, I'll bet it was for alot less than the used ones are selling for now, I have seen good used working ones go for between 1500.00 to 5000.00, Granted the 5k one was sweet and pristine.


----------



## woodtickgreg

So the docs gave me the go ahead for some light work in the shop, he said, and I quote, "just don't be stupid" So at least I can clean parts, maybe a little stripping and painting. Here's a pic of my new shop cart with all the parts on it to be refurbed. Every part will be cleaned, inspected, painted, or replaced, when the cart is empty it will be done!


----------



## Kevin

Nice cart I could use a few dozen of those. Can you buy them already dirty, greasy, with at least one non-tracking wheel? I don't know how to act around new tools and accessories unless they have some serious problems.

When I go to the grocery store and happen to get a really nice basket, I swap it for one that has a clunk and pulls hard to one side. I prefer a left-puller but will settle for a right-dragger if I have to. 


:wacko1:


----------



## Mike1950

Kevin said:


> Nice cart I could use a few dozen of those. Can you buy them already dirty, greasy, with at least one non-tracking wheel? I don't know how to act around new tools and accessories unless they have some serious problems.
> 
> When I go to the grocery store and happen to get a really nice basket, I swap it for one that has a clunk and pulls hard to one side. I prefer a left-puller but will settle for a right-dragger if I have to.
> 
> 
> :wacko1:



I went to an auction about 10 years ago. Bought a whole bunch of wood really cheap and wanted a heavy duty cart. It was a large auction and there were I bet 25 Home depot type carts that had been severly overloaded the wheels were shot but they looked nice and there was this one really ugly 1910 chicago Iron cart loaded with about 100 bd ft of white oak and a pile of misc rips of various hardwoods about 4' tall. I set my sights on a couple carts but they were all selling for $100 plus. When the got to the ugly one I got it for $35 with what was on it. My son and I started moving our stuff and everyone was struggling with their expensive carts while we were loading ours about 5' high and moving it with no trouble. He stayed and staged our wood on docks which took him no time at all. when I came back he was waiting ready to load me again and I asked him how he got done so fast. Everyone volunteered to help him if he would let them use the cart. By the time we were done people were begging me to sell it to them for $100+ I bet I could put the wifes car on it and wheel it down the road. Took four of us to load it. Built when things were built to last.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Mike, that's a great story!


----------



## woodtickgreg

A strong friend of mine came over today and held all the heavy painted pieces in place so I could bolt them together. This gives me a good foundation to build off of now. Now I can work on the other more managable parts and reinstall them as I go now. He also held the heavy original 3 phase motor in place for me so I could get the bolts in it. I have decided to keep the original motor and just run a vfd converter. Next thing I will be working on is a complete tear down of the gear box to clean, repaint, and install new felt oiling wicks. I have been wire wheeling all the original nuts and bolts and they clean up great! Retapping all the threaded holes to clean the junk out of the threads. I still have to clean the pullys in the base pedestal but that's a quickie. It's starting to look like a lathe again, emptied my first few ziplock bags today!
[attachment=9695][attachment=9696][attachment=9697][attachment=9698]


----------



## Kevin

Strong friends are handy. Looking great Greg can't wait to see some shrapnel flying!

:irishjig::irishjig::irishjig:


----------



## woodtickgreg

Kevin said:


> Strong friends are handy. Looking great Greg can't wait to see some shrapnel flying!
> 
> :irishjig::irishjig::irishjig:


With my setback it seems so far away:sad: But I will get it done! Just ordered some cool stuff to finish it from feebay. The 3 most complex parts to redo will be the gear box, apron, and head stock with gear train.


----------



## Brink

Good work there, Greg. I've never seen an old lathe looking this good.


----------



## Mike1950

hell when you are done with it greg I bet it looks better then new. Looking great. Take it easy though.........


----------



## woodtickgreg

Mike1950 said:


> hell when you are done with it greg I bet it looks better then new. Looking great. Take it easy though.........


Yes sir I will, The doc says it will be good therapy.


----------



## LoneStar

woodtickgreg said:


> Mike1950 said:
> 
> 
> 
> hell when you are done with it greg I bet it looks better then new. Looking great. Take it easy though.........
> 
> 
> 
> Yes sir I will, The doc says it will be good therapy.
Click to expand...



Its already looking factory fresh ! Great job, that lathe is gonna make a lot of people jealous........ Not me though.......  Well maybe just a little bit....
:lolol:


----------



## woodtickgreg

Well I gotta listen to the doc, he said work in the shop a little it'll help with the therapy, so I did. Got the pullys in the pedestal and under drive pullys cleaned and got the new motor to under drive belt installed yesterday. Today I started on the gearbox, I have heard horror stories about taking these apart on machinest forums. I just took my time and lovingly tapped with punches and brass drifts. I even made a couple of punches out of old plastic injection mold pins ( they are really hard and don't bend). I do need to find a chinese 1" wrench that I can grind down to make a thin wrench for reassembly. So here's some pics of what I got accomplished today. Working a little slow yet, kinda like a arm and a half. Next into the parts washer and strip the paint off the housing and repaint.
[attachment=9824][attachment=9826][attachment=9828][attachment=9829][attachment=9831]
At least I remembered to get some before pics!


----------



## woodtickgreg

I have been making some slow progress, but progress none the less. I got all the parts cleaned and inspected, gears look really good and no grooves or wear on the shafts. I got all the cast iron casting stripped of paint and wire wheeled. I also have it all masked off and ready for paint. I am going to brush the paint on the casting as there are a lot of holes and passages that I do not want to get paint in. I cleaned all the oil passages out with pipe cleaners and mineral spirits and sprayed the whole thing down with brake parts cleaner to remove any oil residue. I really wanted to get it painted today but I had some problems with the buffer for the handles, wanted to get them buffed before painting. And I also could not find the exact color paint that I have been spraying in a quart can, so I settled on a slightly darker gray that should still look nice, now it will be a 2 tone paint job. I took a pic of one of the handles after wire wheeling and then after buffing. If I took the time to sand the handles down and then buff they would be like chrome, overkill for my grubby mitts I think, it will still look nice and feel good in your hand.
Wire wheeled to remove rust and paint
[attachment=10214]
And buffed with an emery buffing compound.
[attachment=10215]
All parts to be painted masked off.
[attachment=10216]

[attachment=10217]

[attachment=10218]
In these last 2 pics you can see a wood dowel that I shaved off to plug an oil hole for painting.
[attachment=10219]

[attachment=10220]
I just need a free day now to paint, all of these parts will be brushed with rust oleum paint.


----------



## woodtickgreg

I have been painting some parts over the last couple of days. Brushing the rust oleum on so as not to get paint in the openings for the shafts in the gear box. Only bad thing about it is it takes forever for the paint to dry. 2 coats on everything, 2 coats inside the gear box then wait for it to dry and then started the outside today, 2nd coat on the outside tomorrow. So while I am waiting for paint to dry I thought I would get the access door on the base and a motor access cover on also. here's a couple of pics.
[attachment=10399]
[attachment=10400]
[attachment=10401]
Views from underneath the bed.
[attachment=10402]
The fastners for the drip pan cleaned up pretty good for being 60+ years old.
[attachment=10403]
Motor installed and a new kevlar belt installed and adjusted. I have not installed the cover for the motor and belt yet as I want to wait till I go back to my part time job and get a couple of mower deck cover knobs so that it will be tool less access to the belts and motor for lube. It's an old 3 phase motor with oil caps and you have to oil it!
[attachment=10404]
And the cleaned gears and stuff waiting for me to install them as soon as the paint is dry. This is what I really want to do instead of painting.


----------



## conchwood

Kevin said:


> woodtickgreg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike1950 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on the great find-I knew you were looking. Phase converters don't take up much room and are probably cheaper then motor. 3 ph motors are much better. M
> 
> 
> 
> Mike, do you think that a 3/4 hp 3 phase will outperform a 2 hp 220v single phase?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think so even though you're correct about the HP ratings being dropped. It isn't rocket surgery to build a rotary converter though Greg. If you go through the trouble build a rotary not a static - static will deliver ~2/3 the horses the 3Ø motor is designed for. But if you want to replace the 3Ø motor with a 2 HP 1Ø the 2HP 1Ø will deliver more than a 3/4HP 3Ø even through a rotary converter. HP is HP. In the lower HP ranges like that the 3Ø is not a huge benefit unless it's continuous duty application.
> 
> JMO
> 
> Congrats on the find. Either way you go you'll love it!
Click to expand...

Congrats as well, I have a 50's era 9" S/B lathe,passed down and use it often.
I think the only thing you need to worry about is the RPM and pully size as the lathe is set up with gearing and your motor speed will make it run faster or slower. the rest is in the gearing. Yahoo has a group, south bend lathes with a lot of members that probably give you any info you may need.
Doug


----------



## woodtickgreg

conchwood said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> woodtickgreg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike1950 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on the great find-I knew you were looking. Phase converters don't take up much room and are probably cheaper then motor. 3 ph motors are much better. M
> 
> 
> 
> Mike, do you think that a 3/4 hp 3 phase will outperform a 2 hp 220v single phase?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think so even though you're correct about the HP ratings being dropped. It isn't rocket surgery to build a rotary converter though Greg. If you go through the trouble build a rotary not a static - static will deliver ~2/3 the horses the 3Ø motor is designed for. But if you want to replace the 3Ø motor with a 2 HP 1Ø the 2HP 1Ø will deliver more than a 3/4HP 3Ø even through a rotary converter. HP is HP. In the lower HP ranges like that the 3Ø is not a huge benefit unless it's continuous duty application.
> 
> JMO
> 
> Congrats on the find. Either way you go you'll love it!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Congrats as well, I have a 50's era 9" S/B lathe,passed down and use it often.
> I think the only thing you need to worry about is the RPM and pully size as the lathe is set up with gearing and your motor speed will make it run faster or slower. the rest is in the gearing. Yahoo has a group, south bend lathes with a lot of members that probably give you any info you may need.
> Doug
Click to expand...

I am also a member on a couple of machinest forums. What most of the guys are running for 3 Phase in a home shop are vfd's or variable frequency drive's, these are way better than the old static converters and you don't have to run 2 motors like on a rotary converter. They also take up little space, can be mounted anywhere, and give variable speed if needed, soft start too! I can run a 220 single phase line to the converter and get 3 phase out to the lathe and still be able to use the original forward and reverse switch.


----------



## woodtickgreg

I got back to work last week so I picked up a couple of knobs for the belt access cover. I couldn't find any studded ones so I made a couple by using epoxy to glue a long threaded bolt in, when the epoxy set up I just cut the head off with a dremel. Now my access covers are tool less!
[attachment=10761]
[attachment=10762]
The next thing I did was to install the main belt tension engagement lever.
[attachment=10763]
[attachment=10764]
Then I installed the lead screw support bearing and temporarily installed the cleaned up lead screw.
[attachment=10766]
[attachment=10765]


----------



## woodtickgreg

The next thing I did was to install the gear, shaft, spacer, and needle bearing, into the cleaned up and painted gear speed shift lever in preparation for installing in the gear case. Here's a couple pics.
[attachment=10767]
[attachment=10768]
[attachment=10769]


----------



## woodtickgreg

The gear box has been painted and curing in the garage for a week. So now it's time to prep it for assembly, removed the masking tape and installed new oiling felts, cleaned out any paint that may have gotten into the shaft holes. A few pics.
[attachment=10774]
[attachment=10775]
[attachment=10776]
[attachment=10777]
In this last pic you can see the new felts.
[attachment=10778]


----------



## Mike1950

GReg --when you get done the darn thing is going to be too nice to use- Maybe you will have to send it to me for safe keeping!!!!
Kidding aside- it is looking outstanding!!!!!


----------



## woodtickgreg

Here's a few pics of all the gears and shafts installed. I think it has come out really nice, everything is lubed up with the proper oil and works very smoothly by hand. So what do you think? look a little cleaner than when I started?
[attachment=10779]
[attachment=10780]
[attachment=10781]
I found a guy on ebay that makes and sells very high quality reproduction plates for south bends. This is the final touches that I was talking about in an earlier post. I think these new plates really look nice. The only difference from the originals are that the originals where stamped to raise the numbers and letters and then painted. I will save the originals though.
[attachment=10782]
[attachment=10783]


----------



## woodtickgreg

Joe Rebuild said:


> woodtickgreg said:
> 
> 
> 
> The gear box has been painted and curing in the garage for a week. So now it's time to prep it for assembly, removed the masking tape and installed new oiling felts, cleaned out any paint that may have gotten into the shaft holes. A few pics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this last pic you can see the new felts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :hatsoff: to ya Greg that is sweet. We are going to look at some bank repo machinery tomorrow this gives me inspiration
Click to expand...

That's kinda the whole point of showing this restore, to show people what can be done with little money and a lot of elbow grease!


----------



## woodtickgreg

Here's a few pics of the gear box installed on the lathe temporarily, I will have to remove it to install the saddle and apron. At that time I will permanently install the lead screw into the gear box with the jam nuts.
[attachment=10787]
[attachment=10788]
[attachment=10789]
At this point it's starting to look like a lathe again!  I will continue with the black levers and polished handles on the other parts.
Here's the next victom to go on the operating table for a little cosmetic surgery and refurb. The apron.
[attachment=10790]


----------



## NYWoodturner

woodtickgreg said:


> Joe Rebuild said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> woodtickgreg said:
> 
> 
> 
> The gear box has been painted and curing in the garage for a week. So now it's time to prep it for assembly, removed the masking tape and installed new oiling felts, cleaned out any paint that may have gotten into the shaft holes. A few pics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this last pic you can see the new felts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :hatsoff: to ya Greg that is sweet. We are going to look at some bank repo machinery tomorrow this gives me inspiration
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's kinda the whole point of showing this restore, to show people what can be done with little money and a lot of elbow grease!
Click to expand...


... AND a whole lot of know how ! ... Just amazing Greg - truly amazing. You should post a before and after side by side
Scott


----------



## woodtickgreg

I also forgot to mention that the paint matched pretty good, I really can't see any difference in it. The rattle can paint that I used on the bed was called dark machinery grey, and the brushed on paint was called smoke grey. It matched better than expected!


----------



## Kevin

Wow Greg this has turned out far better than I ever imagined. It looks good as new. I'm impressed. The thread has a rating of 3 stars, because I rated it 5 and someone else rated it 1. I can guarantee you the 1 rating was a slip of the mouse or a lack of understanding how it works. This is 5 starts all the way.


----------



## NYWoodturner

Kevin said:


> Wow Greg this has turned out far better than I ever imagined. It looks good as new. I'm impressed. The thread has a rating of 3 stars, because I rated it 5 and someone else rated it 1. I can guarantee you the 1 rating was a slip of the mouse or a lack of understanding how it works. This is 5 starts all the way.



Now its a four...


----------



## LoneStar

Greg I'm hypnotized by this restoration. That is one sexy piece of equipment !
I imagine you could make some money if you could find a few more machines at the right price and give them this kind of treatment !
Excellent work Sir !


----------



## woodtickgreg

LoneStar said:


> Greg I'm hypnotized by this restoration. That is one sexy piece of equipment !
> I imagine you could make some money if you could find a few more machines at the right price and give them this kind of treatment !
> Excellent work Sir !


Thanks! I just want to get it done so I can use it and get it dirty! I am having fun doing this, making a new 1949 lathe, but winter is coming and that means wood working time for me! I got the itch to work wood bad! By the time I get this done I should be further along in my therapy and ready to work wood.


----------



## Kevin

LoneStar said:


> ...
> I imagine you could make some money if you could find a few more machines at the right price and give them this kind of treatment !...



This is a labor of love.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Kevin said:


> LoneStar said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> I imagine you could make some money if you could find a few more machines at the right price and give them this kind of treatment !...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a labor of love.
Click to expand...

So correct!


----------



## woodtickgreg

Just so you guys don't think I have been slacking, heres some pics of the progress I have made. Work has been insane and I have been really busy with both jobs but work on it when I can.
So this is what I started with, the apron assy.
[attachment=11365]
This is what the back side looked like before tear down.
[attachment=11366]
When I removed the oil sump cover there was some metal chips in the sump but it wasn't to bad. I have seen some just packed with chips.
[attachment=11367]
In this pic you can see the aluminum sump cover off to the left side.
[attachment=11368]
In these next 2 pics you can see the apron completely stripped of all parts and readdy for a trip to the parts washer for a good cleaning with wire brushes for a good inspection.
[attachment=11369]
[attachment=11370]
Everything was in great shape so I wire wheeled all the paint off and did some buffing on the handles to get ready for painting. I masked everything off as before.
[attachment=11371]
I did the first coat of paint today, It will take 4 days to get these parts painted, 1 coat every 24 hrs. 2 days to paint the back side of the apron casting, then flip it and 2 days for the front side.
I should have some finished pics for you guys next weekend, I hope!


----------



## woodtickgreg

Well I had a great day in the shop today, full cup o coffee, radio on, and I got a lot accomplished. As promised here's some pics.
Some of the painted parts ready to be assembled.
[attachment=11826]

These next 2 pics are why I decided to do a full restore on the lathe. To replace all of the felt wicks that supply oil to all the moving parts.
[attachment=11815]
This is a view from the top and shows how the wicks are tied into post in the oil wells. The wicks work by cappilary action.
[attachment=11816]

This is a gib clamp that holds the half nuts in place, when I tightened the bolts the half nuts where binding in places so I took the clamp off and and mounted it in a vise and took a very fine flat file to them. This revealed high spots on the ends.
[attachment=11817]

A few more strokes with the file held dead flat and the gib clamp was true and flat. when I reassembled everything it worked very smoothly. The point is that on any restore you will find things that do not work as they should, now is the time to fix them, once you assemble everything you will never go back and fix things. Do it now!
[attachment=11818]

Here's how everything turrned out.
[attachment=11819]

The large hand wheel on the left is only on for photo purposes. I am going to do a modification for better oiling that will require drilling a hole in the casting and installing a oil cup, waiting for the cups to come in the mail. I'll post pics of the procedure when they come and I do the mod. This was recommended in the rebuild book I bought on ebay, it's an excellent book and a wealth of information. This modification makes perfect sense. The book is like an owners manual on steroids.
[attachment=11820]


----------



## Kevin

Greg, your work is top notch. I love watching it come together. I need a metal part made (for real) and have a local machinist buddy who is also top notch and has one of those fancy schmancy Siemens enclosed monster "HAL 2000" lathes but I want you to make my part on your old new lathe if you will. 

If you will do it I'll send the drawings when I get them done. I just think your lathe is much more than a lathe. It's a work of art from the standpoint of old American iron and a work of art as to restoration. Lots of history there and you breathed a second life into it. 

Tops all the way around.


----------



## woodtickgreg

This pic shows everything reassembled, all parts work smoothly by hand. The oil sump cover is ready to be installed at this point.
[attachment=11821]

A new gasket and sealer was used to instal the sump cover.
[attachment=11822]
I then moved on to tearing down the saddle, this is what the apron attaches to. It came apart with little fuss, I did find some round brass gibb shoes where missing. I will make new ones when I reassemble the saddle.
[attachment=11823]

Some one has been into this lathe before as I found out earlier with the head stock bearings. The saddle has been repaired befor, this is an accepted repair by machinery rebuilders, I talked to one. Many new lathes come with this modification, teflon strips that ride on the ways reducing friction and wear.
[attachment=11824]

A close up view of the repair, it was done right.
[attachment=11825]

And know for much work stripping paint, cleaning parts, and polishing the exposed parts, then painting and reassembly.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Kevin said:


> Greg, your work is top notch. I love watching it come together. I need a metal part made (for real) and have a local machinist buddy who is also top notch and has one of those fancy schmancy Siemens enclosed monster "HAL 2000" lathes but I want you to make my part on your old new lathe if you will.
> 
> If you will do it I'll send the drawings when I get them done. I just think your lathe is much more than a lathe. It's a work of art from the standpoint of old American iron and a work of art as to restoration. Lots of history there and you breathed a second life into it.
> 
> Tops all the way around.


They say a machine is only new once, but I think that people that restore them make them new again! 
Kevin, thanks for your appreciation of a.i.r. I would take a look at your drawings but if you need this soon I would have your friend do it. I have a long way to go on this yet, and I have no tooling for it yet. :sad: Tooling is costly and will take some time to aquire.


----------



## Kevin

woodtickgreg said:


> They say a machine is only new once, but I think that people that restore them make them new again!
> Kevin, thanks for your appreciation of a.i.r. I would take a look at your drawings but if you need this soon I would have your friend do it. I have a long way to go on this yet, and I have no tooling for it yet. :sad: Tooling is costly and will take some time to aquire.



You're not getting out that easy. I have a 5 year plan for this project.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Kevin said:


> woodtickgreg said:
> 
> 
> 
> They say a machine is only new once, but I think that people that restore them make them new again!
> Kevin, thanks for your appreciation of a.i.r. I would take a look at your drawings but if you need this soon I would have your friend do it. I have a long way to go on this yet, and I have no tooling for it yet. :sad: Tooling is costly and will take some time to aquire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're not getting out that easy. I have a 5 year plan for this project.
Click to expand...

Ooh I like those kinds of time lines.


----------



## LoneStar

Those teflon strips are brilliant. Less oil on the ways is probably good when turning wood.


----------



## woodtickgreg

LoneStar said:


> Those teflon strips are brilliant. Less oil on the ways is probably good when turning wood.


I talked to a retired machinery rebuilder and he said that is a standard practice when rebuilding lathes for sale. He said a lot of manufacturers are even building their machines like this new right from the factory. I have no idea when this was done or why, I do know that someone has done a half a$$ kinda restore on the lathe, I have been repairing all of the screw ups to make it right. The teflon on the ways would explain why they where in such good condition for a lathe of this age. The real test will be when it's all done and I do a test turn over the full length of the bed and see if it holds a tolerance. Oh and sawdust is bad for a metal lathe, when I am working wood in the shop I think a bbq cover will be just the trick to keepin the dust off, the dust will stick to the oil like flys on poop!


----------



## Brink

Much enjoying this restore, thanks for posting it.


----------



## Kenbo

I'm really loving this restoration job. It looks fantastic and I'm sure that you will be so pleased when it is finally done. There has to be a huge amount of satifaction to see the original state of the lathe compared to the stage you have it at now. I'm blown away so I can't even fathom how you must feel. Keep it coming. This is awesome.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Kenbo said:


> I'm really loving this restoration job. It looks fantastic and I'm sure that you will be so pleased when it is finally done. There has to be a huge amount of satifaction to see the original state of the lathe compared to the stage you have it at now. I'm blown away so I can't even fathom how you must feel. Keep it coming. This is awesome.



Yeah, I was showing a coworker what I was doing the other day and showed him and my boss the thread from the start to where I am now. I do feel pretty good about the progress I have made, looking at the begining it was pretty rough. My boss said I should restore cars, I said I cant get them into my basement. :rofl2:


----------



## Mike1950

Greg, I think you could get them in-It's the getting them out that would be tough............


----------



## woodtickgreg

I got the gits oil covers in the mail and did the mod today, here's the pics. The original install of the wick was very close to 2 gears and if it moved at all it could get cought up and severed and starve the shaft of oil and you wouldn't know it. This modification ensures direct oiling. This shaft is one of the most used on the apron and lubrication is critical.

[attachment=12050]
These first 2 pics show the 1/8" drill bit drilled through the casting and into the slot for the felt wick. That's not a key way slot but it is for the wick only.
[attachment=12051]
The next thing I did was to drill a 1/4" counter bore 3/16" deep, the oil cover is just slightly larger than 1/4" for a press fit.
[attachment=12052]
I used a brass punch and carefully seated the new cover, it has a small ridge around it to show that it is fully seated. I also chose to mount it towards the front so that I could reach it through the hand wheel to fill or from the top behind the hand wheel. the oil will travel through the wick no problem.
[attachment=12053]
I installed a new wick, lubed and inserted the shaft, and installed a new taper pin in the hand wheel. The apron is now complete!
[attachment=12054]

I have been working on the saddle, cross slide, and compound. Everything is stripped and all paint removed, I started painting today.


----------



## Rorban1

I used to live in south bend and my grandfather was a tool and die maker for south bend lathe. He used to build these machines as well. Fun trivia.

I also watched them tear down the building.

True story.


----------



## woodtickgreg

I got to work on the lathe again today and made some good progress with the assembly. Here you can see all the painted parts that I worked on after work, now they are all ready to be assembled with the completed apron assy.

[attachment=12415]
This is what the dials looked like before I restored them, I disassembled them and cleaned everything thoroughly. Then I wire wheeled the handles and sanded lightly with 220 and then hit the buffer.
[attachment=12416]
This is the saddle with the new felt bed wipers installed, the clamp is on but hidden in the back underneath. All bare metal parts are now coated with oil.
[attachment=12417]
This is what the dials look like after I finished working on them, everything is oiled up and ready to install.
[attachment=12418]
Here's the completed saddle with the cross slide and compound installed, the gibs are adjusted and I had to make some brass gib screw clamps to go under the lock screws as they were missing.
[attachment=12419]
Now to do the final install of the apron, lead screw, and gear case.


----------



## Mike1950

GREG!!!! GREG!!!!!!---It is going to be way too pretty to use................ :dash2::dash2::dash2::dash2::dash2::dash2: Maybe you could move it up to the living room so you could admire it!!


----------



## Kevin

Greg, this is why I said I want you to do the machine work for me. You show extreme pride of ownership. The men that made the machines, that made your machine, would be proud of you. I'll just go ahead and tell you what my project is. It's not going to be simple but at least you can advise me along the way of the process. 

I want to get the carriage of my 1947 Oliver 270D running like new again. It won't be cheap but I am willing to pay. That's why I told you I had a long term plan. I see what you are doing to your gorgeous lathe and with the pride and skill you have, I know you are the man for this job. 

Can't wait to see a video of this restored AIR.


----------



## NYWoodturner

woodtickgreg said:


> I got to work on the lathe again today and made some good progress with the assembly. Here you can see all the painted parts that I worked on after work, now they are all ready to be assembled with the completed apron assy.
> 
> 
> This is what the dials looked like before I restored them, I disassembled them and cleaned everything thoroughly. Then I wire wheeled the handles and sanded lightly with 220 and then hit the buffer.
> 
> This is the saddle with the new felt bed wipers installed, the clamp is on but hidden in the back underneath. All bare metal parts are now coated with oil.
> 
> This is what the dials look like after I finished working on them, everything is oiled up and ready to install.
> 
> Here's the completed saddle with the cross slide and compound installed, the gibs are adjusted and I had to make some brass gib screw clamps to go under the lock screws as they were missing.
> 
> Now to do the final install of the apron, lead screw, and gear case.



Man - Thats nice! Its art! Don't forget the before and after pics... and even a picture of what it originally looked like. I bet it didn't look that good new. Amazing work Greg - Amazing.
Scott


----------



## woodtickgreg

Kevin said:


> Greg, this is why I said I want you to do the machine work for me. You show extreme pride of ownership. The men that made the machines, that made your machine, would be proud of you. I'll just go ahead and tell you what my project is. It's not going to be simple but at least you can advise me along the way of the process.
> 
> I want to get the carriage of my 1947 Oliver 270D running like new again. It won't be cheap but I am willing to pay. That's why I told you I had a long term plan. I see what you are doing to your gorgeous lathe and with the pride and skill you have, I know you are the man for this job.
> 
> Can't wait to see a video of this restored AIR.


How about a pic?


----------



## woodtickgreg

Mike1950 said:


> GREG!!!! GREG!!!!!!---It is going to be way too pretty to use................


No way, when it's done I intend to fill all the oil caps and get it dirty! It'll fling oil all over and be covered in metal chips, it's gonna be a user!


----------



## Brink

woodtickgreg said:


> No way, when it's done I intend to fill all the oil caps and get it dirty! It'll fling oil all over and be covered in metal chips, it's gonna be a user!



As it was designed to be. But she sure does look nice all cleaned up and painted.


----------



## woodtickgreg

A few more pics! A better pic of how the dials and handles came out, pretty good I think considering how bad they where. Not perfect but nice, and they work very smoothly.

[attachment=12424]

[attachment=12425]

[attachment=12426]
Here's a couple of pics of the saddle, apron, lead screw, and gear box all assembled. Everything works by turning by hand. I also got the switch pedestal mounted.
[attachment=12427]

[attachment=12428]


----------



## woodtickgreg

Today I finally pulled the caps for the spindle on the headstock. This is the used one that I purchased on ebay to replace the one that was damaged by the previous owner. What a relief to find that everything is as it should be, the bearings and adjusters are intact and the spindle is very smooth with no grooves or galling. Whew, what a relief, now I am confident that I can move forward with this. Now I will show it a little love and clean it up and paint it, this is the most important part of the lathe and will require a great deal of attention.

[attachment=12429]
If you notice the bearings in this are one piece with dovetail adjusters, this is what was missing on the original, and the bearings where cut in half and screw to the casting, that was not right. This is the correct set up to run on a film of oil!
[attachment=12430]


----------



## woodtickgreg

Joe Rebuild said:


> That is so pretty! When does the oil start flying? What is you first project?


When? dunno. :dunno: First project will be to chuck up a long round bar and make a light slow cut to see if it will hold a tolerance and to make necessary adjustments. When she is running right I will resume making lathe chisels, after a break, I need to work some wood first!


----------



## NYWoodturner

woodtickgreg said:


> Joe Rebuild said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is so pretty! When does the oil start flying? What is you first project?
> 
> 
> 
> When? dunno. :dunno: First project will be to chuck up a long round bar and make a light slow cut to see if it will hold a tolerance and to make necessary adjustments. When she is running right I will resume making lathe chisels, after a break, I need to work some wood first!
Click to expand...


Looking forward to your chisels Greg. I plan on owning some 
Scott


----------



## woodtickgreg

I have made some progress but not alot, work is insane and the days are getting shorter. I have been working on the head stock a little everyday after work. One day I degreased and washed it in the parts washer, next day I wire wheeled it to remove the paint and sprayed it down with brake clean to remove any residual oil. Then 4 days to paint it, 2 coats on the bottom, 1 each day, and 2 coats on the top.
This pic shows the head stock bolted down to the lathe bed, I think it will be easier to install the rest of the parts without it moving around on me, plus it has to be bolted down to do the test for bearing clearance.

[attachment=12841]
This was all painted by brush and no masking tape.
[attachment=12842]
A pic with the bearing caps just sitting in place and not bolted down.
[attachment=12843]
End view where all the gears and reversing lever will go, mounting studs cleaned up well too.
[attachment=12844]
This is both spindles and cone pullys, the original is on the top.
[attachment=12853]


----------



## woodtickgreg

So then I moved on to the spindle, cone pully, bull gear, and bearings. I have 2 sets of everything except the bearings for the spindle, so I can pick the best parts for final assembly and save the rest for ????? :dunno:
This is a pic of the big spindle bearing, it shows signs of being run with low oil or insuficiant bearing clearance. it is ok and will clean up, there is no galling and the spindle was smooth.
[attachment=12845]
This is a pic of both spindles, the one on the top is the original that came with the lathe and the one I will use as it is in better shape. I have not cleaned these up yet. I'll probably polish the bearing surfaces.
[attachment=12846]
This is the take up bearing for the spindle that was in the used head stock, I wonder where the missing ball went?
[attachment=12847]
This is the original bearing, it's in way better shape.
[attachment=12848]
This is the bearing/cone pully and brass or bronze gear that meshes with the back gear. Someone was inside of this to and half a$$ smoothed it out, I'll fix this too. The other side is steel or cast and looks good. I will be running a teflon grease in this instead of oil. early lathes like mine ran oil and south bend switched to the teflon grease in later years.
[attachment=12849]
Not a lot of progress but some. Right now I am trying to source some new shims for the head stock bearing caps, mine are pretty tore up. I might have to make them if I can't find any but I'm looking for the quick and easy way at this point. I will work on the spindle and related parts cleaning them up in the mean time.


----------



## LoneStar

I got a bad case of lathe envy over here :wacko1:
I cant even think of a good word to describe the work. Amazing doesnt quite say it all.
Awesome job for sure


----------



## Rorban1

You might be able to talk to the people at south bend lathe about parts. They subcontract grizzly for machining if they don't have the part. They even claim full oversight in the processing. Anyway just a thought. Looking good! Keep it up.
Ryan


----------



## woodtickgreg

Rorban1 said:


> You might be able to talk to the people at south bend lathe about parts. They subcontract grizzly for machining if they don't have the part. They even claim full oversight in the processing. Anyway just a thought. Looking good! Keep it up.
> Ryan


Grizzly is the distributor for south bend parts now, I will contact them to see if new shim packs are still available. I got a copy of the original build serial card from them. Some parts are resonably priced and some not so much. New spindle bearings are like $700


----------



## Kenbo

Wow. It's actually starting to look like a lathe again instead of a bunch of parts. What a beautiful machine. You are doing an incredible job on this.


----------



## Rorban1

woodtickgreg said:


> Rorban1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You might be able to talk to the people at south bend lathe about parts. They subcontract grizzly for machining if they don't have the part. They even claim full oversight in the processing. Anyway just a thought. Looking good! Keep it up.
> Ryan
> 
> 
> 
> Grizzly is the distributor for south bend parts now, I will contact them to see if new shim packs are still available. I got a copy of the original build serial card from them. Some parts are resonably priced and some not so much. New spindle bearings are like $700
Click to expand...


Yikes! Bearings that cost more than what you paid for the lathe! That's just crazy


----------



## woodtickgreg

I have gotten most of the spindle parts cleaned up, after a good parts washer bath I found the spindle bearings to have some scoring. I can feel it with my finger nail, so I used a cylinder hone by hand to level the bearings out, then finished up with a light polishing with 600 grit paper. My biggest stumbling block at this point is that my spindle shims are quite mangled and I would bet too tight due to the scoreing on the bearings. The shims are no longer available, and spindle clearance on this lathe is critical, set to between .0007"- .001", some say .001"- .002" is acceptable. I will set it with a dial indicator and also check it by turning by hand. So now what? Where do I get the shims? I came up with an idea to try, brass is soft so why not use a wood working tool, my scroll saw! I tried a few different blades and have found a couple that worked pretty good, found out that teeth angled down is a must! I used 12 different sizes of shims and just stack cut them. Eureka! It worked!

[attachment=13151]
Here you can see the index card paper templates I cut out and taped to the shim stock.
[attachment=13152]
Here you can see one shim pack all cut out but still taped together.
[attachment=13153]
A little clean up with a file and debur the edges with a file and voila, problem solved.
[attachment=13154]
So I got the 2 big end shim packs cut out and just have to do the small ones yet, I can do that during the week after work. I used 12 different thicknesses of shim stock from .001" to .015 and a .0015" for a half a thousandth shim. This gives me enough for any possible combination needed. I'm so relieved!


----------



## NYWoodturner

It just amazes the hell out of me you even remember or know how to put it all back together - much less manufacture parts... I would have a big ol' pile o' parts...


----------



## woodtickgreg

Well after cleaning the bearings The scoring in them was a little more than I felt comfortable with, I could feel them with my finger nail. Sorry I forgot to take pics of them, once I started working on them I just got consumed and hyper focused. So I mounted them in the head stock and just put the bolts in finger tight to hold the bearings shape round and square to the head stock. Then I ran a cylinder hone through them by hand just untill most of the ridges where gone. I then polished them with some 600 grit paper just untill the scratches where gone. Once this was all done I buffed the bearing surfaces on the spindle and assembled everything in the head stock with new capillary oil wicks. Then I installed .0225" of the shims I made at the four contact points of the bearing caps. I installed the caps and the dovetail adjuster screws. Tightened everything down and tested the bearing clearance, very important for proper oiling of the bearings and spindle.

This is what the spindle was supposed to look like when I first took it apart, see the little bronze dove tail adjusters on top of the bearings, they are very important!
[attachment=13310]
This is the set up for testing for bearing clearance, mag base with a .001 dial indicator and a 1 1/4" solid bar to lift up with.
[attachment=13311]
Indicator set to zero.
[attachment=13312]
And the set up for the other end, being sure to have the indicator tip on a smooth surface of the spindle and not the threads.
[attachment=13313]
Hear you can see the take up nut and hardened washer installed, It is set to .001" of play
[attachment=13314]
Here you can see the take up bearing next to the bronze gear and the shims sticking out from under the bearing caps, I would rather have them too big than too small. It was important to not have them stick out on the sides though so they would not rub on the take up bearing or lock nut ring.
[attachment=13315]
A pic of the bull gear and spindle nose.
[attachment=13316]
I ended up testing the clearance three times and finaly ended up with .0185" of shims for a perfect setting of .001" of clearance. the spindle turnes very easy by hand and has less than .0005" of run out. 
This was the most important part of the rebuild and I paid the most attention to it. I am glad it is done and can now get on with the rest of the restore.


----------



## Brink

Cool! So much fancy stuff going on here.


----------



## Kenbo

This is very exciting. It's finally coming together and I can't wait to see it all. This is just awesome.


----------



## woodtickgreg

A few more things I got done and installed, here's some more pics of the progress.

Some more parts painted and cleaned up ready for install.
[attachment=13492]
The back gear assembly installed on the head stock. The lever that engages it was broken off when I got the lathe, this is a used one I found on ebay.
[attachment=13493]
One tooth on the back gear was a little mushed, so I spent some time with a needle file and a dremel to reshape it. It works perfectly now.
[attachment=13494]
This is the micrometer saddle stop all cleaned up, It was very rusty when I got the lathe.
[attachment=13495]
Here it is back at home on the lathe. it can be mounted on either side of the saddle for a right or left cut.
[attachment=13496]
This is the threading dial all reworked.
[attachment=13497]
And mounted to the saddle, it can be swung out of the way when not being used, it is driven off the lead screw.
[attachment=13498]
And a pick of all the working parts all clustered together. Notice the size of the spindle bore 1 3/8" that's big for a 10" lathe.
[attachment=13499]
I am working on the gears that mount on the side of the head stock to drive the gear box.


----------



## woodtickgreg

What? nobody noticed that the micrometer carriage stop didn't line up with the unpainted pad? Yup, it's not the correct one for the lathe, but it's the one that came with it. I think I found a correct one, gotta make a call on monday to see. fingers crossed. Well the good thing is I have a real nice restored one to sell.


----------



## Kenbo

I'm blown away by this restoration. Just gorgeous.


----------



## Rorban1

Once you pointed it out its like the elephant in the room that no one sees! 

The lathe is looking real nice! Can't wait to see it finished and good luck obtaining that micrometer carriage stop!


----------



## Kevin

woodtickgreg said:


> What? nobody noticed that the micrometer carriage stop didn't line up with the unpainted pad?



Oh yea saw that right off. :dash2:

I don't even see what you're talking about after you tipped us off. :i_dunno:


----------



## CodyS

Haven't been on in sooooo long, but I must say this is looking fab!


----------



## woodtickgreg

cody.sheridan-2008 said:


> Haven't been on in sooooo long, but I must say this is looking fab!


Where have you been cody? We have missed you here, I hope all is well with you! Drop in to Kenbo's chat room and tell us what you have been up to.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Well I got all the brackets for the gear train painted and all the gears cleaned and inspected, all is well, no major wear, all the shafts looked great.

[attachment=13602]
A shot of where everything will go.
[attachment=13603]
Installing new round wicks into the reversing gear shafts.
[attachment=13604]
And the wick trimmed off.
[attachment=13605]
Reversing gear assembly all ready to be installed on the lathe. Notice the little holes on the top 2 gear shafts, that's where you oil them at, the shafts need to be pressed in so the holes are at the top and gravity feeds the wicks oil.
[attachment=13606]
Reversing gear assembly installed on the lathe. Notice how nice the little bronze lever polished up, that's probably my favorite piece. 
[attachment=13607]
Here the top gear on the spindle is driven on, it is a press fit, and centered on the gear it meshes with. There is some room for the take up nut to be adjusted if need be.
[attachment=13608]
Hi - lo range gears all ready to go.
[attachment=13609]
Backside shot of the large nuts that secure the pressed in shafts.
[attachment=13610]
Gear train all installed and centered up, everything turns freely by hand and engages as it should.
[attachment=13611]


----------



## woodtickgreg

Another shot of the gear train. When I go back and look at the pics of the tear down in the begining the gears where really quite cruddy, this is really quite a transformation
[attachment=13615]
Next up is all the covers. I am going to wash them in the parts washer and take them to a sandblaster for stripping. I wanna wash them first so he doesn't fill his blast cabinet with grease. I have found when you think of others like this you usually get treated better and get good service. I want to blast them to remove all the old paint, especially on the inside where I can't get at them with a wire wheel. All but 2 of these covers are cast iron. American iron.
[attachment=13616]


----------



## Kevin

cody.sheridan-2008 said:


> Haven't been on in sooooo long, but I must say this is looking fab!



Cody that's no fair. I PM'd you a couple times worried about you now you make a drive-by like this with no update. Crikey! Start a thread and update us mate!

:irishjig:


----------



## woodtickgreg

So I had a little delay in progress of the lathe due to thanksgiving and all, but I have been working on it when I can. Here's what I got so far.
This is a shot of all the covers before I had them glass beaded, the small piece on the bottom right was missing when I got the lathe, found this one on ebay with the 2 top gear covers. These are cast iron, mine where aluminum, I like iron so I used em.
[attachment=14061]
This little aluminum cover is to protect the lead screw and gear box shafts from chips. It is so close to the oil caps I can't get my fingers in there to lift the covers and add oil.
[attachment=14062]
So I filed of the tab that sticks out and now access is easier, Glad I tried it before I painted it.
[attachment=14063]
Here you can see the belt cover and gear covers in place, I painted the inside of the belt cover and installed a reproduction bearing adjustment instruction plate inside.
[attachment=14064]
A close up of the plate.
[attachment=14065]
Since the belt cover is cast aluminum I didn't paint the top, I buffed it instead and added a new reproduction lubrication plate. I think it looks cool polished instead of painted. The cover is a little warped but I don't dare try and bend cast aluminum!
[attachment=14068]
A shot of all the covers in place, 2 of them where missing when I got it, now all the covers are complete.
[attachment=14069]


----------



## Mike1950

WOW- when do we fire it up and what is the first project???????


----------



## woodtickgreg

These 2 plates are not replacable so I cleaned them up as best I could.

[attachment=14070]

[attachment=14071]
These tags go on the side gear cover.
[attachment=14072]
A full shot of the side with all the covers on. See the nice 3'x3' sheet of aluminum on the left of the lathe, When the lathe is moved to it's final home up against the wall I am going to mount that sheet to the wall as a backsplash.
[attachment=14073]
Then I tore the tail stock down and started cleaning the parts, gotta strip the paint yet and do some buffing before repainting.
[attachment=14074]
I also gotta try and find one of these small oil cups, it's for oiling the tailstock, the 90 deg ones are hard to find. If I cant find one I have an idea!
[attachment=14075]
What's left? finish the tail stock, refinish the work light, instal and wire the switch, purchase and wire up a vfd converter, run a 220 line to the lathe. I'm close to being done and feeling really good about what I have accomplished so far. It's gonna be a brand new 1949 lathe!


----------



## woodtickgreg

Mike1950 said:


> WOW- when do we fire it up and what is the first project???????


maybe another month yet till it's done, then I'm gonna clean my shop and do some wood working, Then I will make some test cuts to check the set up and then make some wood lathe chisels.


----------



## NYWoodturner

woodtickgreg said:


> Mike1950 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW- when do we fire it up and what is the first project???????
> 
> 
> 
> maybe another month yet till it's done, then I'm gonna clean my shop and do some wood working, Then I will make some test cuts to check the set up and them make some wood lathe chisels.
Click to expand...


I've been watching for those chisels


----------



## woodtickgreg

NYWoodturner said:


> woodtickgreg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike1950 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW- when do we fire it up and what is the first project???????
> 
> 
> 
> maybe another month yet till it's done, then I'm gonna clean my shop and do some wood working, Then I will make some test cuts to check the set up and them make some wood lathe chisels.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been watching for those chisels
Click to expand...

I haven't forgotten about ya! When I start making them again I will start a new thread.


----------



## woodtickgreg

I also forgot to mention that I found a correct used southbend micrometer carriage stop, should have it next week maybe. The one that came with the lathe is not correct for this lathe, at least the old one is restored and the future buyer can just bolt it on!


----------



## Kenbo

Good lord that thing is gorgeous. I'm blown away.


----------



## woodtickgreg

A few months ago I found a 4 jaw independent chuck, tool holder, and a live center on craigslist. The chuck is an 8" I was looking for a 6" but i figured for $100 bucks for all I could sell the too large mt3 live center and to large tool holder and recover some money to make the chuck really cheap. All the tools are brand new and where coated with cosmoline. A trip to the parts washer cleaned the chuck up nicely. I forgot all about the chuck untill today when I thought hey.......I can put this on and see how it fits! I still need to get some small brass rod to make a couple of shoes for the set screws that lock the chuck on so the spindle threads don't get damaged. Works great and the mass will be a good thing. Some smart guy said " a body that is set in motion tends to stay in motion" but I'm just an idiot with a hammer! Anyway, a few pics.

[attachment=14263]

[attachment=14262]

[attachment=14264]

[attachment=14265]

[attachment=14266]
These are the 2 items that I will resell, I still need to get a mt2 live center, a quick change tool post, and a 3 jaw scroll chuck.
[attachment=14267]

I've been working on the tail stock too, pics when it's done.


----------



## NYWoodturner

Greg - that thing is just about too nice to use ! Its falling in to the art category  That picture of the gear train all assembled could be a poster in every shop !
scott


----------



## woodtickgreg

Well in my last post you saw the monster chuck that I mounted on the lathe, it was missing the set screws that lock it to the spindle when reversing. So I got a couple of metric socket head cap screws and some 1/4" brass rod. I did not like the idea of the set screws jamming on the threads of the spindle so I made some brass shoes to go under the set screws to lock it down without doing any damage to the threads.
A pic of the shoes and screws
[attachment=14725]
A pic of both screws installed in the chuck.
[attachment=14726]
Closer pic.
[attachment=14727]

This chuck is 8" in diameter and quite heavy as it's all cast iron. If the chuck was to spin off and drop onto the lathe bed it could cause some serious damage to the ways. Now I am not worried. 
More pics coming.


----------



## woodtickgreg

I have been painting the tailstock after work during the week and after I was done with the chuck it was time for some assembly.
All of the parts ready for assembly. New felt oil washer and rubber bump stop, new felt bed wipers. Everything all painted and wire wheeled to remove rust, sanded and buffed as needed. This tailstock was in bad shape when I started.
[attachment=14728]
All assembled except the bed clamp and bolt. Works very smooth now.
[attachment=14729]

[attachment=14730]
I think I want to replace this set screw with a threaded knob.
[attachment=14731]
Reunited with the rest of the lathe, I will have to center it with a test rod and dial indicator yet.
[attachment=14732]

[attachment=14733]
All bare metal parts have been coated with machine oil.


----------



## woodtickgreg

No tailstock wrench you say, it did not come with one when I got the lathe, long gone. I could buy one off ebay, but I had a better idea and cheaper too, and it will give more leverage.

I went to the el cheapo tool store, 2 near me harbour frieght and wholesale tool. I found a wrench at wt for .60 cents made in India, what not china? Good enough for what I am going to do to it and use it for. Drop forged too.

So take el cheapo wrench and cut the end off that I don't need, making sure to cut the right end off.
[attachment=14734]

Grind end smooth and install on tailstock, works great, easy on and off and gives greater leverage too! Problem solved.
[attachment=14735]


----------



## Rorban1

Greg we are leaving for South Bend on Saturday. If it wasn't another five hour drive on top of the ten we will be driving I probably make a detour to Clinton township mi USA just to see this lathe in person! It's so close to being done and looking awesome!

That vactra 2 oil is the same stuff we use in our haas cnc mill too - side note 

Ryan


----------



## NYWoodturner

Greg - I'm thinking this is almost too pretty to use now. Its more in the art realm than tool...  Man you have done a wonderful job. I highly doubt they looked this sexy coming off the line brand new.


----------



## woodtickgreg

NYWoodturner said:


> Greg - I'm thinking this is almost too pretty ti use now. Its more in the art realm than tool...  Man you have done a wonderful job. I highly doubt they looked this sexy coming off the line brand new.



Not done yet! And I am going to use it as it was intended to be used, I will take care of it though. They are only new once....well maybe twice. I am making a brand new 1949 south bend lathe, with pride.


----------



## Kenbo

I went back to the earlier posts and had a look. This is an incredible transformation. I'm blown away every time I look at it.


----------



## Kenbo

Just went through the thread and showed Mrs Kenbo. She too is thoroughly impressed with the transformation. "That's amazing. Must be a labour of love" she said. Definitely impressive buddy.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Kenbo said:


> Just went through the thread and showed Mrs Kenbo. She too is thoroughly impressed with the transformation. "That's amazing. Must be a labour of love" she said. Definitely impressive buddy.



It deffinatly has been a labor of love, Thanks to you both. I too have gone back and looked at the pics on page 2 I think, of the day I picked it up. It's kinda hard to remember what it looked like when I got it, it looked like quite a heap sitting there on the pallet. But I saw a diamond in the rough, although I didn't know how rough it really was.  I could never afford to buy a tool like this, I have seen lathes like this sell for between 3k and 5k, but I could put some elbow grease into it and fix it up. At first my plan was just to rewick it and use it, but I forgot that I cannot take something apart and not put it back together better than it was, I guess that's just the mechanic in me. I have touched every single part of this lathe and I now know everything about it and how it works, I know this tool better than any tool I own. It has been a very rewarding and fun project. I encourage others to do projects like this and restore some old iron or a broken tool purchased cheap. Mike has just purchased a couple of really cool old tools cheap, Kevin has some cool old iron, Brink owns and works on em too! New tools are not always better. I can't wait for the day I throw the switch for the first time and dial it in and get to use it. 
Thanks to all that have followed me on my journey with this and encouraged me.  Still more to come.


----------



## Mike1950

Greg- normally- I just buy and abuse- but this summer I plan to turn scroll saw into a new saw- why you inspired me with this rebuild thread. I think I got very lucky to get the variable speed unit that I did. My rebuild will be nothing compared to yours- that is one complicated transformation from almost scrap iron to much better then new. Good on you my friend. Beautiful job......................


----------



## woodtickgreg

Cam home from work today and found a christmas box from grizzly/south bend, parts that I ordered! 

[attachment=14827]
I was waiting for the parts for the used micrometer carriage stop that I got on line from a used equipment and parts dealer in VT. I forgot to take pics before I stripped it and painted it. It was painted green and grungy but in good shape.
[attachment=14828]
I also got the replacement gits oil cap for the tailstock to replace the smashed one.
[attachment=14829]
A couple pics of the completed carriage stop ready to be installed.
[attachment=14830]

[attachment=14831]
And here it is mounted on the lathe, this is the correct original stop and it lines up with the machined pad on the carriage.
[attachment=14832]

[attachment=14833]
Only thing is I did not use this spacer as it prevented the clamp from tightening on the bed ways.
[attachment=14834]
This is a shot from below and it shows the gap is even without the spacer. South bend used this stop on many lathes. I may just put a bolt and lock nut in place of the spacer to keep the clamp centered.
[attachment=14835]

I'll be restoring the work light next, man it's gonna take some work. As like with the rest of the lathe the previous owner spray painted everything and didn't mask anything. The reflector and bulb was even covered with paint, gray primer, bleech


----------



## woodtickgreg

Mike1950 said:


> Greg- normally- I just buy and abuse- but this summer I plan to turn scroll saw into a new saw- why you inspired me with this rebuild thread. I think I got very lucky to get the variable speed unit that I did. My rebuild will be nothing compared to yours


Mike I am sure you will do a great job , don't sell yourself short. I have seen the work you do and you are very skilled with your hands . Best advice I can give is take pics as you take it apart for reference. Take your time and don't cut corners, do it right, you will only do this once. Nothing will give you more joy than using a tool that you restored . you will learn all about the machine as you go, and then anything that you might have to do to it in the future will be easy. You'll find it is a fun process.


----------



## NYWoodturner

Greg - You need to re-title this post. Instead of "Southbend Metal Lathe Find" it needs to be "Southbend Metal Lathe Rebirth" 
Scott


----------



## Mike1950

NYWoodturner said:


> Greg - You need to re-title this post. Instead of "Southbend Metal Lathe Find" it needs to be "Southbend Metal Lathe Rebirth"
> Scott



I think South bend needs to come to Greg's house and see what their lathe should have looked like.
Greg, Thanks for the compliments but my rebuild will NEVER be like yours. That is one HELLUVA beautiful machine my friend...................


----------



## Rorban1

Mike1950 said:


> NYWoodturner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greg - You need to re-title this post. Instead of "Southbend Metal Lathe Find" it needs to be "Southbend Metal Lathe Rebirth"
> Scott
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think South bend needs to come to Greg's house and see what their lathe should have looked like.
> Greg, Thanks for the compliments but my rebuild will NEVER be like yours. That is one HELLUVA beautiful machine my friend...................
Click to expand...


I completely agree with you Mike that South Bend needs to come to Greg's house. I am not sure how the current owners of that company would react to this "rebirth". However, if my great grandfather were still alive I am completely 110 % positive it would bring a tear to his eye and bring back old memories. 

Awesome job again Greg. Can't wait for the first chips to fly.


----------



## NeilYeag

I completely agree with you Mike that South Bend needs to come to Greg's house. I am not sure how the current owners of that company would react to this "rebirth". However, if my great grandfather were still alive I am completely 110 % positive it would bring a tear to his eye and bring back old memories. 

Awesome job again Greg. Can't wait for the first chips to fly.
[/quote]

Interesting comment. I was thinking a similiar thing myself. My Grandfather had an automotive machine shop from the early 40's until the mid 70's. He had a tremendous amount of big metal working equipment, lathes, crank grinding machines, ect. In reading this thread I sat and wondered if any of his equipment survived. Or did it all end up in the big scrap heap and recycled into probably useless junk.


----------



## woodtickgreg

NeilYeag said:


> I completely agree with you Mike that South Bend needs to come to Greg's house. I am not sure how the current owners of that company would react to this "rebirth". However, if my great grandfather were still alive I am completely 110 % positive it would bring a tear to his eye and bring back old memories.
> 
> Awesome job again Greg. Can't wait for the first chips to fly.



Interesting comment. I was thinking a similiar thing myself. My Grandfather had an automotive machine shop from the early 40's until the mid 70's. He had a tremendous amount of big metal working equipment, lathes, crank grinding machines, ect. In reading this thread I sat and wondered if any of his equipment survived. Or did it all end up in the big scrap heap and recycled into probably useless junk.
[/quote]

I often wonder what the original owner of this machine would think of what I am doing to it. I wonder if he is looking down on me and is pleased with what he see's and happy that his lathe has gone to the right person. I wonder what will happen to all my tools when I am gone. Will they go to the right person?


----------



## woodtickgreg

I've been working on the work light, Christmas day and nothing to do so I spent some time in the shop.
This is how the light looked before reworking it.
[attachment=15202]
Even the reflector was spray painted with the same dull primer as everything else, the reflector became an absorber.
[attachment=15203]
The light disassembled and ready for stripping and painting.
[attachment=15204]
All the parts painted and cleaned up, new light socket and cord. Reflector all polished up too. Ready for reassembly.
[attachment=15205]
When I stripped the paint off the wing nuts I found out they where brass, so I polished them up for a little jewelry sparkle.
[attachment=15206]
Light all done.
[attachment=15207]
And mounted on the lathe, it bolts to the switch pedestal. You can also see the live center in the tail stock that I traded for.
[attachment=15208]
Another of the light mounted.
[attachment=15209]

I see a few of these lathes up for sale for really high dollar and most of them don't have the original light with them. So I carefully restored it like the rest of the lathe. I am currently working on the switch. I have scored a couple more tools for it and I'm still looking for others. The tooling can be costly and will take some time to obtain. Almost there.


----------



## woodtickgreg

So since I had to buy a new computer and didn't have any money left for the vfd I thought I would work on the belt. The lathe origanally had a leather belt on it but they are prone to stretching and slipping. The machinist forums that I am on advised to do a serpentine belt conversion, zero slippage. The problem with a south bend lathe is you can't just slip a belt on, it has to pass through holes in the bed and head stock casting, you have to cut it. 2 trips to the auto parts store and I had the right width. I found a glue that sounded great in the description so I tried it, I followed the instructions exactly, and it didn't stick. So other members have used ca glues with some success so off to the hardware store to get the recommended glue, cleaned the belt with acetone and scuff sanded it for some tooth. didn't stick. So I tried a ca that I use for wood, a thin ca, seemed to work.
The belt.



The glue





 The recommended ca glue



The glue joint.



The pully covered with plastic to keep it clean. If I can get this joint to stick it will get another layer added to the top about 8" long to strengthen the joint. It failed, I pulled it apart.



I tried some of this ca, it stuck.



I turned the belt over to clean the excess glue off, looks good.

 
When I rolled it back over it pulled apart, fail!
But wait there's more, I have a solution, I think.
This belt seems to have a high silicone content, the ca just peeled right off in a sheet.


----------



## woodtickgreg

The original south bend lathe belts where clipped together with metal clips. So I thought why not improve on this and stitch it together with wire. The bad thing about the clips is the made a click click click noise as the rolled across the pullys, but they did hold up. Tractor implements where run of the same type of large leather belts clipped together.
So off to the hardware store again to find some wire, I found some 30lb braided picture hanging wire that fit in the grooves of the belt nice.



I tinned the end of the wire with some solder to see if it would stick and to make it easy to fish through the holes without unraveling the wire.



I drilled 1/16" holes in the center of the ribs 3/8" up from the ends and stitched it together.



You can see the wire lays in the grooves nicely.


 
This is what it looks like from the top.



A little solder to connect the wires together and I think all is well.



The belt tensioned up nicely and when I roll the spindle by hand it tracks in the center of the pully. Why did I even mess with all that glue? This was quick and easy and should work well, time will tell when I get it powered up.


----------



## drycreek

Army surplus stores if you have one close sometimes carry a aircraft stainless wire in small rolls that's used to thread through nuts that have holes in them to prevent them from vibrating loose, and I have found it to be invaluable for such projects. Oh by the way this build has been outstanding, you have me thinking of doing an old delta wood lathe rebuild, notice at this point I'm only thinking and that usually gets me in trouble.


----------



## woodtickgreg

drycreek said:


> you have me thinking of doing an old delta wood lathe rebuild, notice at this point I'm only thinking and that usually gets me in trouble.



This rebuild has been way more involved than any wood working machine would be, you should restore that delta! The purpose of this thread is to show people that you can buy old iron cheap and restore it back to like new and have a great machine to use for not a lot of money, just elbow grease and the fun of doing it. When you restore an old machine like this it teaches you everything about the machine, I now know this machine and how it works better than any machine I own.


----------



## Kenbo

I am in awe. This is freaking awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Brink

Excellent way to lace up a belt.


----------



## woodtickgreg

So today I was thinking, what was I doing last year at this time? I was painting the lathe on the 4th of july in 100+ degree heat. Then I thought, this thing still isn't done and I really need it. Sometimes life and other things get in the way. I have made a little progress on it so I'll show you what I have gotten done so far.

The first pic is of the lathe pushed against the wall in it's final resting place. I also got a 3' square sheet of aluminum from work for free and I mounted it on the wall for a back splash. You can also see where the vfd is going to go, at eye level to the left of the lathe and hopefully far away enough from flying chips.
[attachment=27166]
This is a Enco brand indexible tool holder for the lathe that I found in a bucket of scrap metal I got from the guy I bought my Burke mill from, a couple hundred dollar freebee! I do have to machine the clamping block but I can do that on the Burke mill.
[attachment=27167]

[attachment=27168]

[attachment=27169]

[attachment=27170]
More to come.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Here's some pics of the vfd I chose to run the lathe with. This one is totally sealed and suitable for a wash down environment. If it's waterproof it's also dustproof, and since it's in my wood shop that's important. A totally enclosed sealed unit with large heat sink cooling fins and a cooling fan inside the cover of the unit. 110v single phase input, 220v 3 phase output with variable speed and soft start and electronic engine braking as well, all can be set to your desired preferences.
Specs.
[attachment=27180]
The cover and what it looks like from th outside, it can run an external speed pot as well.
[attachment=27181]
The internal cooling fan
[attachment=27182]
The board that it will be mounted to, open in the back for ample air flow and cooling.
[attachment=27183]
The large deep heat sink fins.
[attachment=27184]


----------



## woodtickgreg

I have done some work on the switch and cleaned it up and repainted the cover. The top plate for it was worn off and I could not duplicate it and make it look good. So one of the fab shops I go to for work has a laser, I asked them if they could make me a new plate, they did. Exactly like the original just not painted, all laser cut and etched, very cool and just one of those little touches. I do favors for them sometimes and it came back to me, no charge they said!

[attachment=27185]
I polished the plate a little
[attachment=27186]
The painted cover and a new electrical junction box, the box will mount on the pedestal base for the motor wiring connections.
[attachment=27187]


----------



## woodtickgreg

Worked on the wiring a little today. I got the connections made in the breaker panel. I installed a service disconnect before the vfd in case I ever have to service the vfd. The vfd is mounted to the wall. I got the refurbed switch installed on the lathe switch pedestal. I also pulled the motor back out of the lathe to inspect the wires and make sure it was wired for 220v and not 440v, I had to know for sure. The wires where in really good shape, the insulation was not all dried out and falling off. I will have to add a ground wire though as it does not have one, it should at least have the motor housing grounded.

Vfd and service disconnect mounted to the wall, disconnect is wired.
[attachment=27314]

The switch installed back on the pedestal.
[attachment=27315]

Covers removed from the base and the motor pulled out again for a closer inspection.
[attachment=27316]

Motor wiring plate
[attachment=27317]

Motor wires, in good shape
[attachment=27318]

Kind of at a standstill at this point, I need a special wire to run from the vfd to the motor, it has to be a 3 conductor with ground shielded 14awg wire. I will probably have to go to an electrical supply house for that. I also have to figure out how to wire the switch to the vfd, the guys on the machinist forum can probably help me with this, or I can call the manufacturer of the vfd. I'm so close to getting this thing under power, I am excited


----------



## woodtickgreg

Already getting some help from the machinist's, got the switch wiring figured out and ordered some wire for it. Having a hard time finding the wire for the 220 3 phase though, these vfd's require shielded wire, I need 14/4 shielded wire. I don't need 50' of it though, more like 10' I'm gonna try a couple of local electrical supply's around me next week.


----------



## Kenbo

It's gonna be sad to see this whole thing come to a close. What a great ride it has been.
Glad that you took us along


----------



## woodtickgreg

Kenbo said:


> It's gonna be sad to see this whole thing come to a close. What a great ride it has been.
> Glad that you took us along


Ken, it's not done yet, still a little more to do and then I have to figure out how to post a video. :dunno: Seems like I always have to figure out something.

Today was a monumental achievement, after months of work I finally got the wiring done and threw the switch for the first time!  Everything works as it should, I engaged everything forward and reverse, the original switch works with the vfd. She is smooth and quiet.....well until I engage the gears, I think I can quiet them down a little with some adjustment, the back gear definitely needs to be adjusted. Still I am very happy with her, she is alive again and will be making chips soon.  I ran it for about a half hour and the spindle bearings didn't even get warm, that's a huge relief considering the work I put into them. The belt I stitched up runs quiet as can be also. This is a very rewarding day for me. A little adjusting here and there, get a 3 jaw chuck, get the tailstock set and dialed in, get the tool holder mounted, and I'll be making chips. So a little work to do yet but I would say 98% done.


----------



## Mike1950

CONGRATS Greg!!!!


----------



## Brink

[attachment=27489]


----------



## woodtickgreg

Brinkster you kill me, when you use a like button you really use a like button!


----------



## woodtickgreg

Just a little update, I got the lash set in the gears and it quieted down quite a bit. I set the clearance with the lathe running and just tuned it by ear, when it ran the quietest that's where I locked it down. I can't help myself, I keep going to the shop to just turn it on and watch it run, I can't wait to get the small details finished up on it so I can make some chips. I can't wait to watch this thing cut metal and make some tools.


----------



## HomeBody

Congrats on the lathe coming out so well. I'd love to do one but over my head for sure. I might start small on my 30's Delta drill press. Need bearings. Gary


----------



## woodtickgreg

Worked on the south bend today, getting a little closer to saying it's done. I had to re-machine a clamping block to mount the tool holder on the lathe. The cool part about this was I got to use my recently found and purchased Burke mill for this. This little mill is just so damn much fun to use! It's way better than trying to machine with my drill press, but you use what you got sometimes. Here's a couple of picks of the mill under power and making cuts, the smoke trails from the cutting oil is kinda cool.

[attachment=27640]

[attachment=27641]

[attachment=27642]


----------



## woodtickgreg

After I got the clamp block machined I test fit it on the lathe and mounted the indexing tool holder.

[attachment=27643]

[attachment=27644]

[attachment=27645]


----------



## woodtickgreg

Then I sharpened and installed a high speed steel cutter and set the height and made a couple of test cuts. I faced off the end of a piece of high carbon hot rolled steel and then made a few test cuts along the length. This allowed me to play around with the under drive speed as I had it set to fast, tried a couple different spindle speeds, and a few feed speeds as well. I used the feed in both directions and tried different depths of cut as well. She seemed to like a .010" cut the best. Then I tried the same with a carbide tipped cutter, I'm still playing with that. First three pics are with the hss cutter and the last one with the dime is the carbide, I think I can pick up the speed a little with the carbide, maybe I'll play around with that a little more tomorrow.

[attachment=27646]

[attachment=27647]

[attachment=27648]

[attachment=27649]


----------



## woodtickgreg

Here's a pic of the vfd "variable frequency drive" and the service disconnect. The disconnect is just a non fused air conditioner disconnect, It was cheap at home depot, like 6 or 8 bucks. I like it because when you pull the link it is dead and you have to make an effort to put the link back in and make it live again. That's a good thing when you are working on the lathe or vfd. now for those who have not used one of these vfd's as I haven't before, I gotta tell you they are very cool. for not a lot of money they allow you to run 3 phase motors with single phase power and no power loss either like the old static phase converters. I am going to install a variable speed pot on this one, that allows you to adjust the speed with a dial while the motor is running. This thing makes no noise and starts and stops supper smooth. you choose how fast you want it to start and stop when you set it up.

The vfd and disconnect.
[attachment=27650]
The lathe with chips on it.
[attachment=27651]
See I told you all I was going to use it and get it dirty! She is very cool, I love this little lathe, so fun to use.
[attachment=27652]
And my 2 old american iron machines that make up the machining part of my little basement shop. This corner is set aside for tool making and such.
[attachment=27653]
Still more to come but she's getting close to done!

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Kenbo

Absolutely incredible. I love it.


----------



## woodtickgreg

A couple more pics of the finish I am getting with a brazed carbide cutter. This was not done on it's higher speeds but still gave a pretty good finish on hot rolled steel, carbide works better at higher speeds. It should give a real nice finish on some better steel. I also purchased a cheapie chinese 6" 3 jaw chuck, it's a shars brand and not bad for an import, 2 piece jaws as well. For precision I still prefer a 4 jaw as I know how to dial them in with an indicator. And as you can see there's chips in the lathe pan!  She really is fun to use.  I still have to get the tail stock set and dialed in. Thinking about a variable speed pot for the vfd too. Anyway here's a couple of pics.

[attachment=28513]

[attachment=28514]

[attachment=28515]

[attachment=28516]


----------



## Kevin

She lives! 

Even if you never flipped the switch that thing turns . . . . heads! She's a beauty.


----------



## Brink

That would be perfect for my ev builds. Well done!


----------



## ChrisN

Oh, no! Your shiny new old toy got dirty!  That's a very nice lathe! You'd better have fun with it!


----------



## CodyS

cool! First thing to make is a set of nail punches!


----------



## justturnin

Ok, that thing is amazing. I could not imagine using it now. I would have to throw out the Piano and put it in the front room instead. Windows open for the world to be able to bask in is beauty.


----------



## Mike1950

Greg, Very nice end to a very cool build- Beautiful machine. Better then new!!!!!


----------



## sprucegum

I have followed Gregs rebuild of this lathe off and on for a couple of months now. Hats off to you Greg for a great rebuild. I also have a heavy 10 south bend mine however is a somewhat grimy specimen but fully functional and a very handy tool to own. I realize WB is not a buy sell for used machine tools but because there was so much interest in this project I am going to pass along what I think if a very good deal on a similar machine. A friend of mine has a bench top SB 9 1/2 A that he wants gone. I call it a decent machine has 1/2 hp motor and thread dial but almost no tooling. Feel free to PM me if any one is interested in more details I will tell you the price put you in touch with my friend. I have no interest in this deal other than to hopefully help out friends on both ends of the deal.


----------



## woodtickgreg

So I learned how to do videos today, here's some crappy videos of the lathe running and some fat old guy running it. Many have requested that I do a video of this lathe when I got her done so here ya go all.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## woodtickgreg

Some more.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## woodtickgreg

last ones.

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## NYWoodturner

Man - you just jumped right into this !

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## woodtickgreg

NYWoodturner said:


> Man - you just jumped right into this !


I'm learning...........


----------



## Rorban1

Awesome videos man! That lathe sounds great. Kinda makes me want to ditch to family and go play.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## CodyS

looking good as always mate :)

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## ripjack13

Nice...real nice.


----------



## rdnkmedic

Cool videos. Thanks for posting. Great machine.


----------

