# Beeswax: is there a difference?



## chippin-in (Apr 23, 2017)

I read a few old posts about using beeswax and how expensive it was in certain places. My question is when it comes to using beeswax does it really matter if it's yellow or brown or purified or just plain beeswax? I found it for sale for 12.95 a pound, and then Rockler has it for 27.95..."purified". I found cosmetic grade etc. Does it matter for use on turnings?

Thanks
Robert


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## gman2431 (Apr 23, 2017)

I use Georges that is a combo of beeswax and mineral oil. That little tub has lasted a long time for me. Works great at high speed on the lathe to get it hot and soak in if thats what your intent is.

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## chippin-in (Apr 23, 2017)

gman2431 said:


> I use Georges that is a combo of beeswax and mineral oil. That little tub has lasted a long time for me. Works great at high speed on the lathe to get it hot and soak in if thats what your intent is.



That is one of the waxes that people here have mentioned before and I will quite possibly use that, but I've also seen guys on YouTube just use straight beeswax and it looks as though it's pretty simple for use on a decorative piece. I am sure georges is simple also.

Thanks
Robert

Reactions: Agree 1


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## rocky1 (Apr 23, 2017)

I'll sell it to you way cheaper than that! How many thousand pounds you looking for?

Yellow or Brown... The brown is typically caused by miniscule, often times even microscopic impurities in the wax Robert. It is possible to scorch wax and turn it brown, but what actually turns brown is usually the impurities in the wax. You can take really nasty looking beeswax, ugly, brown, chunks of goodies floating in it, and heat it in a manner where there is little or no movement, and render beeswax that will come off pretty and yellow every time. Solar melters are great for that... (_Black box, metal lined with a spot for wax mold to sit under the metal pan, double paned glass lid pointed toward the sun. Just a little fall on the metal tray so the wax runs off real slowly. This allows the impurities to settle out, and clean wax to run off. _)

In the initial rendering process, while extracting, we wind up with a pile of what is referred to as Slum-Gum, combination of wax, dead bees, bits and pieces of wood and assorted other impurities, mix in with a little honey, assorted fine wire out of the broken frames, you name it. Looks terrible, usually smells not so good, but you can toss it in half a drum of water, drop a steam line in it and let it melt. Then remove steam, and let it settle a few minutes, and dip many many pounds of pretty pure yellow beeswax out of it.

Cosmetic grade... There you're looking at wax with very few impurities. It'll be pretty and bright yellow with virtually all impurities removed. Do the cosmetic companies pay a premium for such wax? Yes, as a matter of fact they do. Do they pay $27.95/lb. for it? HELL NO! Not that I'm aware of!!! If they do I can hook them up with several thousand pounds of cosmetic grade wax! They may be running it through a high micron screen to filter impurities out, but I'd guess they're selling a line of B_S_ and jacking the price way up for plain old clean beeswax.

We were told by the folks at Sue Bee Honey that there are a few producers that Wax Buyers specifically request their wax when they call up, because it is typically cleaner and has fewer impurities in it. Ours is as a rule amongst the top 5 on their list of most requested producers.

What are the impurities? - microscopic bits and pieces of bees. Feet, wings, legs, bits of wood, little pieces of grass and leaves, bits of the cocoons spun inside the cell walls when brood is reared, pollen, dust, dirt... The impurities as a rule float or sink to the bottom in the melter. The beeswax and the vast majority of the impurities it holds, will float to the top of the honey where it contacts a set of coils and melts. Honey exits through a partitioned stand pipe in one corner, the pure beeswax floats off. End of the day you work the remaining wax out of the "Slum-Gum" as best possible, then drop your honey level below the coils before shutting down at night, and break the "slum-gum" out in the morning.

Does the color of the wax have any impact on your project when using beeswax to finish?

Yes and No... depends totally upon how high a luster you want out of your finish. If you're looking for a dull hand rubbed wax finish; it's not going to make a lot of difference. If you're looking for buffed high gloss sheen, it may cause some loss of luster. The impurities will be picked up in your buffing wheel and may impart fine scratches in the finish.

The cleaner the wax, the better the shine you'll get.

If you need some wax, I can certainly hook you up. We have it available in 1 lb. blocks, unless you want 40 - 50 lbs. of it. I can squeeze 1 lb. in SFRB, 2 lbs. in padded envelope, or 9 lbs. in MFRB. In another month or so we'll have some fresh stuff, that'll make you want you want to go hunt a biscuit every time you rub it into anything on the lathe.

Color varies a little, but most of it will look like this if I dig it out of the bin for wood workin buddies.

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## chippin-in (Apr 23, 2017)

Well @rocky1 I guess that answered that. Im guessing your a beekeeper or make honey? LOL.
Anyway, I might like to try a pound when it is available.

Thanks
Robert

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## rocky1 (Apr 23, 2017)

Beeswax and boiled linseed oil on Oak




Beeswax and boiled linseed oil on Walnut






I rub the oil in by hand, stick the chunk of wax up to the piece while it turns, and lay it on thick, then apply pressure with a rag or even by hand to melt it into the pores. No magic to it. After I'm done, typically put it on the buffing wheel, hence the fuzz on the calls above. These are some of my very early pieces... I clean the fuzz off them now!

A more recent pair of Walnut Calls.

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## rocky1 (Apr 23, 2017)

Uhmmm... Yes sir, been involved in the business to some extent pretty much all of my life, doing nothing but that for the last 12 years. 

We do have some available now Robert, it just isn't as fresh and the aroma of honey isn't quite as strong. Still smells awesome when you heat it up on the lathe, just isn't quite as much honey smell to it. I'll shoot you a PM.

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## gman2431 (Apr 23, 2017)

I might need some also Rocky if you're digging it out! 

Misewell use a product from a WB member since my George is getting low!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## CWS (Apr 23, 2017)

Rocky
What is the appox. cost get started with a hive of bees.


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## chippin-in (Apr 23, 2017)

Is that a 1:1 mix ratio?

I thought this posted earlier. But now I get to ask another question with it.

I noticed that some people mix turpentine with it. Is there some reason why they use turpentine in there? or is it just as good with just boiled linseed oil and beeswax?


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## rocky1 (Apr 23, 2017)

gman2431 said:


> I might need some also Rocky if you're digging it out!
> 
> Misewell use a product from a WB member since my George is getting low!



PM headed your way in a minute gman!




CWS said:


> Rocky
> What is the appox. cost get started with a hive of bees.



Way more than we recommend anyone spend in this day and age Curt. Even with decades of experience it is extremely difficult to keep bees alive. While some hobbyist do well at it, because their bees aren't stressed like those in a migratory commercial operation, and may be isolated to some extent, most will lose their hive(s) within the first year, and definitely inside of 2 years.

Cost of the hive of bees itself is now up around $150 for an established hive of bees. Additional boxes for your honey dependent upon what size they are will run you $25 - $35 apiece, you'll need 3 - 4 per hive. Queen excluder on each hive is advisable, another $10 - $12 per hive. Then you'll need a bee smoker, hive tool, hat and veil at minimum, bee jacket or bee suit if you're scared.

Average hobbyist invests somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000 to $1500 to play with a hive of bees for a year Curt. Then the wax moths and mice get in it and eat everything up before they realize it. If you manage to keep them alive, you can split the hive and raise your own once you have one, but then you've got to spend $25 - $30 for one bee, plus overnight shipping, so upwards of $50 for 1 bee! Unless of course you want to get real serious and raise your own queens. Wherein you'll need cell cups, grafting tool, book on queen rearing. There's no end to it.

It used to be really rewarding, we used to promote it, we still sell bees to people all the time, but we tell them flat out, if you're doing this simply to have honey, you can buy a LOT of honey for what you're going to spend on a hive of bees. If you're doing it to pollinate your garden, see if you can find a hobbyist or beekeeper locally that will bring you a hive of bees or two.

If you're dead set on getting into it, do your homework BEFORE you buy a hive of bees. Try to find a local beekeeping club, hobbyist or beekeeper locally you can visit and get a little hands on experience, search the internet, talk to your local county extension agent, see if the local college offers a short course in beekeeping. Buy the "Beekeeping for Dummies" book, and read it cover to cover at least twice before investing in it.

Reactions: Great Post 1 | Informative 6


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## rocky1 (Apr 23, 2017)

chippin-in said:


> Is that a 1:1 mix ratio?
> 
> I thought this posted earlier. But now I get to ask another question with it.
> 
> I noticed that some people mix turpentine with it. Is there some reason why they use turpentine in there? or is it just as good with just boiled linseed oil and beeswax?



Usually a 1:1 ratio if you're mixing it yes...

Turpentine thins it makes it easier to apply. 1:1:1 ratio from what I've read. Don't know that I'd use the turpentine on anything you're going to put food in, but I'm sure some may. 

I'd probably thin it with a food grade mineral oil if using it on salad bowls or kitchen utensils instead. 

Some folks add Carnauba to it to afford a harder more durable finish to items that will see a lot of use in the field, like game calls. 

I haven't blended any yet myself, simply rub the BLO in, apply beeswax and rub it in, repeat several times until all pores in the wood are filled, then buff. As a rule I rub it by hand. Beeswax melts at about 115 - 120 degrees Robert. That's within the range of maximum SAFE setting for hot water heaters on a new install, so specified to avoid scalding anyone. It gets warm no doubt, but hold it as long as you can and switch hands, or use a rag. Keep using the same rag, the oils and wax in the rag will reduce what you need on each piece once saturated.

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## bamafatboy (Apr 24, 2017)

I have a friend of mine that is a bee keeper and I get my wax from him. I do mix mine with mineral oil for my bowl finish.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Mike Mills (Apr 24, 2017)

When I made some a few years back I used turpentine. Because that is what I was told. Seems to work just fine. I put a jar with the wax into a pot of water on low heat to melt the wax then poured in the turpentine.
Maybe 25% turp. I took off the heat and allowed to cool. You can redo and add more wax or more turp for what you want. I added small amounts of turp twice so when cooled it was about like thick ketchup or yogurt. Stores well in an old liquid dish soap bottle.
For food items I would use the mineral oil approach.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## CWS (Apr 24, 2017)

Thanks for the information Rocky. This has been a great help. My plan was to set up a hive on my 30 acres of clover and let one of friends manage it and I would take some of the honey and let have the rest. Our apple tree .is in bloom and I have not seen a single bee. Thank again for sharing your knowledge.


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## rocky1 (Apr 24, 2017)

I'd seek out local hobbyist Curt, they'll probably offer you a jar or two for the use of the site, if they don't tell them you'd like a jar or two, I'm sure they'll oblige.


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## Jeberly (May 7, 2017)

Rocky could you send me the price of your beeswax per lb. and do you sell packages of bee's say a 3 lb with queen?


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## rocky1 (May 7, 2017)

No sir Jim, we don't sell package bees, but I know a gentleman that does and I believe he gets up there somewhere in Ohio, I can forward you his number. Not sure whether he ships small orders, I do know he hauls a bunch of them up there himself. But, if he's close enough you maybe meet up and pick up a few.

PM headed your way!


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## rocky1 (May 7, 2017)

Looks like you need another post or two before we can do the Private Message routine Jim, make a few more posts!


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## Jeberly (May 7, 2017)

rocky1 said:


> No sir Jim, we don't sell package bees, but I know a gentleman that does and I believe he gets up there somewhere in Ohio, I can forward you his number. Not sure whether he ships small orders, I do know he hauls a bunch of them up there himself. But, if he's close enough you maybe meet up and pick up a few.
> 
> PM headed your way!


Thank you


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## Jeberly (May 7, 2017)

rocky1 said:


> Looks like you need another post or two before we can do the Private Message routine Jim, make a few more posts!


Ok thanks


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## rocky1 (May 7, 2017)

That got you there! Now we can converse off the board. PM headed your way Jim.


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## Jeberly (May 7, 2017)

rocky1 said:


> That got you there! Now we can converse off the board. PM headed your way Jim.


Great


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## woodtickgreg (May 8, 2017)

I have purchased wax from Rocky, excellent stuff at very fair prices.

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## JR Parks (May 8, 2017)

Rocky,
Can you get me a 1 lb block in a sfrb. Just let me know how much and I'll get you a pp. And if its better to wait a while thats fine as well. Thanks Jim


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## rocky1 (May 12, 2017)

Well thus far Barry and Cody have indicated receiving their beeswax via PM, Jim's and Jim's is in the mail, they've got tracking numbers, and it should be there tomorrow. Have another headed to @SENC along with a Fu King T-Shirt will try to get it out tomorrow, and a T-Shirt headed Doc's way as well. 

Curt if you're still looking for a hive of bees, the friend down here I mentioned to Jeberly has bees on the east and west side of the state, and apparently had some right in Jim's backyard there in Seville. He said that was his home away from home. If you're still interested I could hook you up with his number, but finding a hobbyist and talking him out of a few jars of honey is still going to be your cheaper route. If you haven't found anyone to cover the clover field, I could put you in contact with him. He might be interested in looking at the area and bringing some bees down, or he may have a few extra for sale if you still want to go that route.

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## rocky1 (May 12, 2017)

Oh yes... Almost forgot! Have goodies rounded up to get on Rodney's smoke house gift list, including beeswax too!!


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## JR Parks (May 13, 2017)

Rocky,
Nice package arrived today - good looking wax. Thanks Rocky.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jeberly (May 13, 2017)

I received my bee's wax today also, thanks.

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## Tony (May 15, 2017)

@rocky1 , have you ever put just straight wax on wood? I make a Texas shaped cutting board that is really for just serving because it is all face grain. Made with walnut, mesquite and maple. I use mineral oil as a finish on my boards, but it makes face grain maple look like nasty baby poo colored wood. Looking for an alternate finish. Tony


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## rocky1 (May 15, 2017)

I personally haven't, but... @DaveHawk just did a thread on refinishing a table that had been done that way not long ago.

https://woodbarter.com/threads/beeswax-finish.30648/

Might want to shout at Dave and see what he would recommend. Straight beeswax isn't difficult to put on, but getting even penetration might be tough Tony. You can melt it and use a foam brush to apply, but getting any penetration on Maple is going to be tough. I would say heat gun, but on a laminated board, heating it to get the penetration, may cause it to move.


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## Tony (May 15, 2017)

rocky1 said:


> I personally haven't, but... @DaveHawk just did a thread on refinishing a table that had been done that way not long ago.
> 
> https://woodbarter.com/threads/beeswax-finish.30648/
> 
> Might want to shout at Dave and see what he would recommend. Straight beeswax isn't difficult to put on, but getting even penetration might be tough Tony. You can melt it and use a foam brush to apply, but getting any penetration on Maple is going to be tough. I would say heat gun, but on a laminated board, heating it to get the penetration, may cause it to move.



Thanks Rocky! @DaveHawk , what say you, is your finish something I could do? These aren't really a laminated board, just 3 pieces. Tony

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## DaveHawk (May 18, 2017)

Its a grrat finish for craft's, if you buy a bag of Damar varnish crystals and 100% gum turpentine its a simple formula, the more damar you use the harder the finish.


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## Tony (May 18, 2017)

DaveHawk said:


> Its a grrat finish for craft's, if you buy a bag of Damar varnish crystals and 100% gum turpentine its a simple formula, the more damar you use the harder the finish.



Is it a food safe finish do you know? Tony


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## DaveHawk (May 18, 2017)

I don't think there would be a problem. See what others have to say. I spoke to my friend I'm hunting with who knows more then I on this subject of food prepping boards and he said he didn't see a problem. But google it maybe something will pop up.

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## Tony (May 18, 2017)

@Charles Neil what do you think?


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## rocky1 (May 18, 2017)

Amazon has the Damar pretty reasonable Tony.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Woodworking Vet (May 19, 2017)

If one wants to mix mineral oil with beeswax what is the best way to do that and then store it? Have been wanting to do that for a while but never got around to getting the wax or reading how to do it.

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## Tony (May 19, 2017)

David, the most popular formula I've seen is 1 part wax, 3 parts oil. Heat the oil up and add the wax until it's blended. I just kept it in the pan and would reheat it when I wanted to use it. I couldn't get consistent results with it, but plenty of people do.


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## rocky1 (May 19, 2017)

Have heard several folks say they put it in a jar, set the jar in a pan of water to heat and melt the wax, then add oil to desired consistency. Think I'd go with a wide mouth jar if I did that.

Others have suggested heating it in the pan and mixing. Which you'll have to let it cool to find consistency you want, so that may be easier.

Either way you want low heat. Beeswax melts at about 135 degrees, scorches at about 185, and flashpoint is just over 200.

Personally I'd shoot for consistency of paste wax like you'd use on your car, but I believe someone around here said they shoot for the consistency of ketchup and keep it in a squeeze bottle.

When applying you want a little heat to melt the wax and work it into the pores. On the lathe, simply turn it and apply pressure by hand, or use a rag to apply pressure. Flat work or larger bowls, heat gun or blow dryer, or set it in the oven for a few minutes to warm it before applying.


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## DaveHawk (May 19, 2017)

Just bit less then paste wax, a bit lucidity when heated helps with getting into the pours of the woods when hamd rubbing after the initial application.

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## Tom Smart (May 19, 2017)

I use one of the small crock pot type gizmos for heating dips. Heats slowly for mixing the oil and wax and I just keep it in there and reheat it when needed.

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