# Kiln Project!



## GaSawmiller

Today we finally started building our kiln! We plan to dry our own wood that we saw as well as offer the service to others so its going to be a large one. We are building on to a slab that used to be an old gas pump station. The pumps were removed years ago and its just been a place to store lumber for us when we have no where else to put it. We decided to extend the slab and build a kiln that will be 22' x 15'. We took the old structure down today and start the construction with the slab pouring on Monday.[attachment=23108][attachment=23109][attachment=23110][attachment=23111][attachment=23112]


----------



## Wildthings

Hop to it. You gots lots of cleanup to do before Monday!


----------



## GaSawmiller

Wildthings said:


> Hop to it. You gots lots of cleanup to do before Monday!



Indeed we do. What you see there thats left we will load on to a trailer with the tractor tomorrow and then pick up the small pieces and be ready to go!


----------



## Kevin

I'd like a wider picture and one from the opposite view to see the rtoad too. Has to be a road there if that was a pump island at one time. I predict this will be one very cool thread.


.


----------



## GaSawmiller

Kevin said:


> I'd like a wider picture and one from the opposite view to see the rtoad too. Has to be a road there if that was a pump island at one time. I predict this will be one very cool thread.
> 
> 
> I plan on posting progress as we go. There is a road about 30 yards or so away. Its a private road and this used to be a private pump station that my grandfather had for all his farming equipment. It was put in 35 years ago but the EPA regulations scared him into dismantling it.


----------



## GaSawmiller

Got the slab site cleared today but it started to rain so I didnt get a picture.:dash2: Tomorrow we pour the extension on the slab and Ill get some pics up for yall.


----------



## Wildthings

GaSawmiller said:


> Got the slab site cleared today but it started to rain so I didnt get a picture.:dash2: Tomorrow we pour the extension on the slab and Ill get some pics up for yall.


----------



## GaSawmiller

We poured the slab today. Kevin I took a picture looking toward the road for you.[attachment=23213][attachment=23214]


----------



## GaSawmiller

sawed the rest of the lumber for the kiln today. A little bit of dry time and we can start construction! Ill get pictures up when we do.


----------



## GaSawmiller

We started putting up the walls today![attachment=23854][attachment=23855][attachment=23856][attachment=23857]


----------



## jimmyjames

Holy crap, how much wood do you plan on drying!


----------



## GaSawmiller

jimmyjames said:


> Holy crap, how much wood do you plan on drying!



A ton. right now i am cutting about 2000 BF for a guy and I have thousands more of my own that is done air drying. We used to use a guy we know with a solar kiln but we just have more than he can handle so we built this. Its final size is 24'x15'. We plan on stacking 4000 BF in there max.


----------



## GaSawmiller

jimmyjames said:


> Holy crap, how much wood do you plan on drying!



This is all waiting to be kiln dried. The closest stack is 750 BF to give you an idea of how much is there.

[attachment=23985]


----------



## gvwp

Your new kiln is similar in size to my kiln. What are you planning on using for heat? What type of fans are you going to use?


----------



## GaSawmiller

gvwp said:


> Your new kiln is similar in size to my kiln. What are you planning on using for heat? What type of fans are you going to use?



Well the plan is to use a Nyle 200 and attic fans to circulate the air. How are you set up?


----------



## gvwp

GaSawmiller said:


> gvwp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your new kiln is similar in size to my kiln. What are you planning on using for heat? What type of fans are you going to use?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the plan is to use a Nyle 200 and attic fans to circulate the air. How are you set up?
Click to expand...


I built a home made kiln chamber. I use my wood burner to heat hot water and pump it through a 216,000 BTU exchanger inside the kiln chamber. The exchanger is connected to a thermostat with external control. I use four large air movers and 12 box fans to circulate the air inside the kiln. Dries 4/4 green Oak in about 30 days. Pine in about 10 days. Poplar in about 21 days.


----------



## GaSawmiller

gvwp said:


> GaSawmiller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gvwp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your new kiln is similar in size to my kiln. What are you planning on using for heat? What type of fans are you going to use?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the plan is to use a Nyle 200 and attic fans to circulate the air. How are you set up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I built a home made kiln chamber. I use my wood burner to heat hot water and pump it through a 216,000 BTU exchanger inside the kiln chamber. The exchanger is connected to a thermostat with external control. I use four large air movers and 12 box fans to circulate the air inside the kiln. Dries 4/4 green Oak in about 30 days. Pine in about 10 days. Poplar in about 21 days.
Click to expand...


Thats awesome. We decided to go with a DH style kiln because it is low temp and the wood seems to come out very stable if the rate of DH is controlled properly. It dries wood in about the same time frame as yours. I would love to see a picture of your set up if you have one.


----------



## gvwp

GaSawmiller said:


> gvwp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GaSawmiller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gvwp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your new kiln is similar in size to my kiln. What are you planning on using for heat? What type of fans are you going to use?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the plan is to use a Nyle 200 and attic fans to circulate the air. How are you set up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I built a home made kiln chamber. I use my wood burner to heat hot water and pump it through a 216,000 BTU exchanger inside the kiln chamber. The exchanger is connected to a thermostat with external control. I use four large air movers and 12 box fans to circulate the air inside the kiln. Dries 4/4 green Oak in about 30 days. Pine in about 10 days. Poplar in about 21 days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats awesome. We decided to go with a DH style kiln because it is low temp and the wood seems to come out very stable if the rate of DH is controlled properly. It dries wood in about the same time frame as yours. I would love to see a picture of your set up if you have one.
Click to expand...


Visit the following link. It contains photos as well. 

http://woodbarter.com/showthread.php?tid=3731&page=1


----------



## woodtickgreg

The only thing I question about the nyle is does it have a high temp cycle for bug kill?


----------



## GaSawmiller

woodtickgreg said:


> The only thing I question about the nyle is does it have a high temp cycle for bug kill?
> [/quote
> 
> The kiln runs at up to 120 deg and most bugs arent going to be a problem if you get the wood down to 6-8%.


----------



## GaSawmiller

gvwp said:


> GaSawmiller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gvwp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GaSawmiller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gvwp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your new kiln is similar in size to my kiln. What are you planning on using for heat? What type of fans are you going to use?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the plan is to use a Nyle 200 and attic fans to circulate the air. How are you set up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I built a home made kiln chamber. I use my wood burner to heat hot water and pump it through a 216,000 BTU exchanger inside the kiln chamber. The exchanger is connected to a thermostat with external control. I use four large air movers and 12 box fans to circulate the air inside the kiln. Dries 4/4 green Oak in about 30 days. Pine in about 10 days. Poplar in about 21 days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats awesome. We decided to go with a DH style kiln because it is low temp and the wood seems to come out very stable if the rate of DH is controlled properly. It dries wood in about the same time frame as yours. I would love to see a picture of your set up if you have one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Visit the following link. It contains photos as well.
> 
> http://woodbarter.com/showthread.php?tid=3731&page=1
Click to expand...


looks great!


----------



## jimmyjames

gvwp said:


> GaSawmiller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gvwp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your new kiln is similar in size to my kiln. What are you planning on using for heat? What type of fans are you going to use?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the plan is to use a Nyle 200 and attic fans to circulate the air. How are you set up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I built a home made kiln chamber. I use my wood burner to heat hot water and pump it through a 216,000 BTU exchanger inside the kiln chamber. The exchanger is connected to a thermostat with external control. I use four large air movers and 12 box fans to circulate the air inside the kiln. Dries 4/4 green Oak in about 30 days. Pine in about 10 days. Poplar in about 21 days.
Click to expand...


Hey Dave, do just use heat for kilning and no dh? I take it that your kiln must have a vent of some sort to expel moisture?


----------



## gvwp

jimmyjames said:


> gvwp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GaSawmiller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gvwp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your new kiln is similar in size to my kiln. What are you planning on using for heat? What type of fans are you going to use?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the plan is to use a Nyle 200 and attic fans to circulate the air. How are you set up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I built a home made kiln chamber. I use my wood burner to heat hot water and pump it through a 216,000 BTU exchanger inside the kiln chamber. The exchanger is connected to a thermostat with external control. I use four large air movers and 12 box fans to circulate the air inside the kiln. Dries 4/4 green Oak in about 30 days. Pine in about 10 days. Poplar in about 21 days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dave, do just use heat for kilning and no dh? I take it that your kiln must have a vent of some sort to expel moisture?
Click to expand...


Yes, I vent for the first two weeks until the internal kiln humidity reaches 40%. Then I lock it down and slowly raise the heat.


----------



## jimmyjames

gvwp said:


> jimmyjames said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gvwp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GaSawmiller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gvwp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your new kiln is similar in size to my kiln. What are you planning on using for heat? What type of fans are you going to use?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the plan is to use a Nyle 200 and attic fans to circulate the air. How are you set up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I built a home made kiln chamber. I use my wood burner to heat hot water and pump it through a 216,000 BTU exchanger inside the kiln chamber. The exchanger is connected to a thermostat with external control. I use four large air movers and 12 box fans to circulate the air inside the kiln. Dries 4/4 green Oak in about 30 days. Pine in about 10 days. Poplar in about 21 days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dave, do just use heat for kilning and no dh? I take it that your kiln must have a vent of some sort to expel moisture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I vent for the first two weeks until the internal kiln humidity reaches 40%. Then I lock it down and slowly raise the heat.
Click to expand...


How high of temps do you see in your kiln?


----------



## gvwp

jimmyjames said:


> gvwp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jimmyjames said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gvwp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GaSawmiller said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well the plan is to use a Nyle 200 and attic fans to circulate the air. How are you set up?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I built a home made kiln chamber. I use my wood burner to heat hot water and pump it through a 216,000 BTU exchanger inside the kiln chamber. The exchanger is connected to a thermostat with external control. I use four large air movers and 12 box fans to circulate the air inside the kiln. Dries 4/4 green Oak in about 30 days. Pine in about 10 days. Poplar in about 21 days.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Dave, do just use heat for kilning and no dh? I take it that your kiln must have a vent of some sort to expel moisture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I vent for the first two weeks until the internal kiln humidity reaches 40%. Then I lock it down and slowly raise the heat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How high of temps do you see in your kiln?
Click to expand...


I can push the temperature to 145 but I don't find it necessary to go that high on the heat. I get to 128 degrees in the third week and hold at 128 for a full week on hardwood to kill any bugs.


----------



## jimmyjames

I take it that's on your 4/4 hardwoods? For 8/4 do run it for 8 weeks then?


----------



## jimmyjames

I was thinking king about building a kiln out of an existing building we have, its 20x12 and 12 feet tall, I have an extra 17,000 but electric shop heater, would this heater heat a well insulated building this size?I did the bbut calculator and it shows that it would, I would probably have to rewire it to remove its thermal shutdown and wire it to a solid state relay with a temp controller but I've already got the goods to do that.


----------



## Kevin

jimmyjames said:


> I take it that's on your 4/4 hardwoods? For 8/4 do run it for 8 weeks then?



No. Schedules do not work that way - moisture leaves exponentially to a certain thickness. The reasoning behind kiln schedules are very complex. Mostly I think it was trial and error but I don't try to understand them I just use them. Maybe GVWP can get scientific with you but I never delved deeply into them other than to use them properly.


----------



## GaSawmiller

Finished the framing today and priced the roof![attachment=24161][attachment=24162]


----------



## jimmyjames

Kevin said:


> jimmyjames said:
> 
> 
> 
> I take it that's on your 4/4 hardwoods? For 8/4 do run it for 8 weeks then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. Schedules do not work that way - moisture leaves exponentially to a certain thickness. The reasoning behind kiln schedules are very complex. Mostly I think it was trial and error but I don't try to understand them I just use them. Maybe GVWP can get scientific with you but I never delved deeply into them other than to use them properly.
Click to expand...


I have looked at kiln schedules but it seems the temperatures used on them are much higher then any "home" kiln operators use, they list temps into the 180's....


----------



## Kevin

Those are commercial kilns that use steam and such and can dry softwoods in days and hardwoods in 1/3 the time compared to the slower DH "throw it in and forget it". I have been using Daren's kiln design for going on 6 or 7 years - lost track - and it's just a no brainer. If I were a high volume dealer I would buy a Nyle or something but since I can sell the FBE green, the only thing I use my kiln for is my own wood and the occasional FBE order where the customer is willing to pay my outrageous drying charges.


----------



## gvwp

When drying thicker lumber I have found it varies by species how easy it is to get them dry. Some 8/4 such as softer woods like Basswood, Poplar, and Boxelder will dry fine in a 30 day cycle. Harder woods take longer and also depend on how much air drying the wood had before it went into the kiln. I find higher temperatures tend to warp and cup the lumber more. Especially in Sycamore and Cottonwood. Thin lumber must have a lot of weight and twice the stickers to keep it from warping but 1/4 to 3/8" can normally be dried in 10-14 days. I've never had much luck drying really thick (4"+) lumber. No matter how long I draw the cycle out they always seem to split and twist in some amount.


----------



## jimmyjames

gvwp said:


> When drying thicker lumber I have found it varies by species how easy it is to get them dry. Some 8/4 such as softer woods like Basswood, Poplar, and Boxelder will dry fine in a 30 day cycle. Harder woods take longer and also depend on how much air drying the wood had before it went into the kiln. I find higher temperatures tend to warp and cup the lumber more. Especially in Sycamore and Cottonwood. Thin lumber must have a lot of weight and twice the stickers to keep it from warping but 1/4 to 3/8" can normally be dried in 10-14 days. I've never had much luck drying really thick (4"+) lumber. No matter how long I draw the cycle out they always seem to split and twist in some amount.



Thanks for the information Kevin and Dave, very useful stuff. Right now the lumber that I would like to dry is 8/4 walnut in lumber and slab form, I have about 1600 feet of it. I think I may just build a small building on timbers that way I can move the building around with the tractor if needed and also so the tax man doesn't up the taxes and also wouldn't need any stinking permits and inspections :). A few years back a friend of mine needed a place to store a bunch of used 2x lumber that was from a large masonry job that they used to build a giant temporary tent to build a huge stone wall in the winter, the guy never came back to get it and has fallen off the face of the earth so I think I will turn it into a kiln. For the amount of stuff that I want to dry I think I'm going to go small, 14' wide x 12' deep and 10' ceiling height with just a sloped roof, slather it in OSB, roll roofing, and a big bifold door for the front opening. The walnut lumber I have has been air drying for about 3 months and will probably be drying for at least another month or more before I get the kiln done and operable. 

I had one other question for you folks, I have heard many times too keep your lumber the same thickness in a kiln charge, almost all of the stuff I'm milling now I'm milling 4/4 and 8/4 lumber, 9/4 slabs and 12/4 and 16/4 spindles, can all of these be ran together in a single load ? Or just wait till I have enough of each given thickness and run them separate?


----------



## gvwp

jimmyjames said:


> gvwp said:
> 
> 
> 
> When drying thicker lumber I have found it varies by species how easy it is to get them dry. Some 8/4 such as softer woods like Basswood, Poplar, and Boxelder will dry fine in a 30 day cycle. Harder woods take longer and also depend on how much air drying the wood had before it went into the kiln. I find higher temperatures tend to warp and cup the lumber more. Especially in Sycamore and Cottonwood. Thin lumber must have a lot of weight and twice the stickers to keep it from warping but 1/4 to 3/8" can normally be dried in 10-14 days. I've never had much luck drying really thick (4"+) lumber. No matter how long I draw the cycle out they always seem to split and twist in some amount.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the information Kevin and Dave, very useful stuff. Right now the lumber that I would like to dry is 8/4 walnut in lumber and slab form, I have about 1600 feet of it. I think I may just build a small building on timbers that way I can move the building around with the tractor if needed and also so the tax man doesn't up the taxes and also wouldn't need any stinking permits and inspections :). A few years back a friend of mine needed a place to store a bunch of used 2x lumber that was from a large masonry job that they used to build a giant temporary tent to build a huge stone wall in the winter, the guy never came back to get it and has fallen off the face of the earth so I think I will turn it into a kiln. For the amount of stuff that I want to dry I think I'm going to go small, 14' wide x 12' deep and 10' ceiling height with just a sloped roof, slather it in OSB, roll roofing, and a big bifold door for the front opening. The walnut lumber I have has been air drying for about 3 months and will probably be drying for at least another month or more before I get the kiln done and operable.
> 
> I had one other question for you folks, I have heard many times too keep your lumber the same thickness in a kiln charge, almost all of the stuff I'm milling now I'm milling 4/4 and 8/4 lumber, 9/4 slabs and 12/4 and 16/4 spindles, can all of these be ran together in a single load ? Or just wait till I have enough of each given thickness and run them separate?
Click to expand...


Be sure to insulate the hell out of your kiln. 2 X 6" frame is recommended. This will save you heat and you use a lot of it. Also be sure your doors have good seals. This is where most of your heat is lost along with the ceiling. Go with maximum insulation on these. You want to be able to keep the humidity out on a rainy day as well. On a rainy day you are 100% humidity outside and 5% or less humidity inside at the end of the cycle. Vaper barrier as well because you are always dealing with a lot of moisture when cycles are started up. Around here a typical January day can range from 0 - 30 degrees. Inside the kiln at the end of the cycle is 128 degrees. A HUGE difference. On a really cold winter morning it looks like the kiln is on fire with all the cracks leaking heat and turning to fog.

If you have enough of each then do separate. I rarely have enough of the really thick stuff so I typically just throw it all in together. This may be a no no in the big commercial world but I dry slow anyway and if the bigger stuff doesn't get cooked enough I just throw it back in the next cycle. Thick Walnut has always been a bear to dry. If its winter cut its much easier. Never had a problem with 4/4 or 8/4 lumber but the thicker 12/4 and up is hard for me to dry for some reason. 3" square dries fairly well but sometimes takes a double cycle. I try to get it sawn way in advance so it has a chance to breathe in the wind for awhile before putting it into the kiln.


----------



## jimmyjames

Thanks for the info, and yes the walnut logs were winter cut before the sap started running, I do have some logs that were cut in the spring and man what a difference, stuff was dropping wet off of the mill.....


----------



## gvwp

Yes. You will notice a difference. I had a few more Walnut trees I wanted to get cut but it warmed up on me. They can still be cut. It just tends to be a little more difficult to dry. Also like Hickory Walnut will split on you much easier if its warm out. Hickory can be almost impossible to keep from splitting in log form in the warm weather if its really high quality and straight grained.


----------



## GaSawmiller

We dug and ran 220 power to the kiln yesterday for 60 amp service that will power the Nile 200M. Today we put all the OSB on which our milled pine siding will go over. Tomorrow we order the roofing and someone is coming out to quote us on spray insulation. You can see in the pictures there will be a small inspection door in the rear and against the back wall are the places for the Nyle and (not cut out yet) a place for the control panel which will be accessible on the outside. The panel will have switches for the fans, control of how fast water is removed, and readings from 4 sensors that will be screwed into the lumber to monitor drying.[attachment=24542][attachment=24543][attachment=24544]


----------



## GaSawmiller

Got the roof put on today, insulation gets sprayed in on Sat.[attachment=24979]


----------



## GaSawmiller

Sorry I haven't posted pictures lately. Insulation got put off as we have decided to go with a different company. The one we were working with put us off too many times. We are now working on the electric which just isn't much for pictures. Ill get some up when we move to the next step.


----------



## Graybeard

Wonderful project, my hats off to you. Wish I was closer, I'd like to watch. Do you have a couple of good old boys sitting and supervising? Just what you need huh?

Graybeard


----------



## GaSawmiller

Hey guys sorry its been so long since my last post. Its been busy. Here we are making the doors for the kiln. The overall doorway you see in the pictures above is 16 feet. The doors we are making here are 4'x8'. There will be 4 of them. they will be hinged together with industrial hinges in pairs. These pairs will ride on a heavy metal track hung over the door and bolted to the header beam. Sorry if its hard to picture but you'll see when we finish them and I get pics up. The siding for the kiln will be pine that we sawed on the mill so we decided to go with the same on the door. This pine is 6" while the siding will be 8". [attachment=26103][attachment=26104][attachment=26105]


----------



## GaSawmiller

GaSawmiller said:


> Hey guys sorry its been so long since my last post. Its been busy. Here we are making the doors for the kiln. The overall doorway you see in the pictures above is 16 feet. The doors we are making here are 4'x8'. There will be 4 of them. they will be hinged together with industrial hinges in pairs. These pairs will ride on a heavy metal track hung over the door and bolted to the header beam. Sorry if its hard to picture but you'll see when we finish them and I get pics up. The siding for the kiln will be pine that we sawed on the mill so we decided to go with the same on the door. This pine is 6" while the siding will be 8".



Forgot to add: they will be filled with spray insulation just like the rest of the kiln and sealed with gaskets.


----------



## GaSawmiller

Well we have been waiting for 6 weeks for the Nyle kiln to get here and it arrived last night. When we opened it we found that fedex had destroyed it in transit and had to send it back. I have no words to express how frustrating this is. On the upside we were able to make some measurements while we had it and are getting the small stuff done while we wait for the new kiln.


----------



## gvwp

I feel your pain. I've had plenty of things destroyed using truck freight. Its all those 18 year old kids loading and unloading trucks in the middle of the night is where is happens. :dash2::dash2: Its part of the reason truck freight is so expensive anymore.


----------



## GaSawmiller

Well, there is good news Woodmizer who we bought the Nyle through put in a claim on the busted kiln and drop shipped us a new one in a rush. It should be here tonight. Guys I cant tell you what a great company they have been to work with. You just cant beat the service you get at Woodmizer.


----------



## Treecycle Hardwoods

GaSawmiller said:


> Well, there is good news Woodmizer who we bought the Nyle through put in a claim on the busted kiln and drop shipped us a new one in a rush. It should be here tonight. Guys I cant tell you what a great company they have been to work with. You just cant beat the service you get at Woodmizer.



I couldn't agree more! I bought my wood mizer used and they treat me like i bought it from them new. Great company to work with. It would be hard for me to buy another sawmill brand based on their customer service alone.


----------



## GaSawmiller

Kiln arrived![attachment=26940][attachment=26941]


----------



## GaSawmiller

The first pictures here are of the rail mount for the 16ft door and the others are of the fan housings. [attachment=26942][attachment=26943][attachment=26944][attachment=26945]


----------



## GaSawmiller

We have scheduled the insulation to be sprayed on Tuesday.


----------



## GaSawmiller

Sorry Ive been slow with the pictures. Here are some of the latest additions. We have sprayed in the insulation giving us about R30. We got the doors put up as well in the picture they are only opened half way they open up fully to 16'. Lastly we got the fans put in which will move 4500 CFPM. The kiln i getting close to finished.[attachment=27447][attachment=27448][attachment=27449][attachment=27450][attachment=27451]


----------



## gvwp

Its looking great! I would be interested in seeing a closeup pic of your doors and how they seal. I have standard doors on hinges on my kiln but a slider door would be great if they have a good seal.


----------



## Treecycle Hardwoods

gvwp said:


> Its looking great! I would be interested in seeing a closeup pic of your doors and how they seal. I have standard doors on hinges on my kiln but a slider door would be great if they have a good seal.



+1 on that I am building 2 kilns at the moment and haven't built the doors yet.


----------



## GaSawmiller

gvwp said:


> Its looking great! I would be interested in seeing a closeup pic of your doors and how they seal. I have standard doors on hinges on my kiln but a slider door would be great if they have a good seal.



I have nt sealed them yet but I will give you the gist and get pictures up when I can. The doors sit against a frame built on to the inside of the doorway. The weight of the doors holds them against it and there will be rods attached to the out side of the doors that will drive into the ground to keep the fan pressure from pushing the doors outward. the seals will be two parts. One side attached to the frame with construction adhesive and the other attached to the door. The rail that the door slides on allows the doors to be pulled away from the frame as you slide it open which will prevent friction damage to the seals as the doors open. when the doors are closed the weight and rods will keep the seals pressed against each other. Foam insulation does the rest. If you look closely you see that there is an opening cut into the front of the track. This allows the second and third doors to leave the track and fold back on the first and fourth which makes two four foot panels that slid on the tracks. this is how the doors open fully to 16' without putting a lever on the tracks.There are two rollers in the track for panels 1 and 4 and one roller for panels 2 and 3. I hope all this makes since. I will try to get some pictures of the doors as they open to put a picture to this explanation.


----------



## GaSawmiller

Well the kiln isn't finished on the outside but today we started drying lumber! Ill keep posting pictures til its 100% complete but for now here are some pictures of the internals and the door operation. 

[attachment=27559][attachment=27560][attachment=27561][attachment=27562][attachment=27563][attachment=27564]


----------



## GaSawmiller

These pictures are of the locking mechanisms. The first two are to lock the doors in the center where the meet the next three are of a clamp we designed to hold the outside bottom of the doors to the frame since the fans create pressure in the kiln. They have a washer on a bolt that fits in to the door and as you rotate the handle it pulls tight and holds.

[attachment=27565][attachment=27566][attachment=27567][attachment=27568][attachment=27569]


----------



## Treecycle Hardwoods

GaSawmiller said:


> Well the kiln isn't finished on the outside but today we started drying lumber! Ill keep posting pictures til its 100% complete but for now here are some pictures of the internals and the door operation.



looks good. How many BF did you fit into the first load?


----------



## gvwp

Do you have a way to measure temperature and humidity from outside the kiln? I use an external thermostat and wireless transmitters inside my kiln to show temperature and humidity at several places inside the kiln. Works really well.


----------



## GaSawmiller

Treecycle Hardwoods said:


> GaSawmiller said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well the kiln isn't finished on the outside but today we started drying lumber! Ill keep posting pictures til its 100% complete but for now here are some pictures of the internals and the door operation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> looks good. How many BF did you fit into the first load?
Click to expand...


We put a little more than 1500 BF in there. Its just a test run of red oak 8' and 10' long. It was designed to do up to 4000 BF but we wont put that much in till we have run our test load. The oak is reading between 13 and 18% right now so it should be dry in a couple weeks.


----------



## jimmyjames

I've been following this from the beginning and a love a build thread that actually has an bend! Does the Kyle into have a heater or is it just a dh unit? If not what are you using for heat? I'm guessing right now its plenty warm out to keep the kiln at temp


----------



## GaSawmiller

gvwp said:


> Do you have a way to measure temperature and humidity from outside the kiln? I use an external thermostat and wireless transmitters inside my kiln to show temperature and humidity at several places inside the kiln. Works really well.



Yes, our control panel is located on the outside of the kiln and it has a humidity and temp feed from sensors on the inside.


----------



## GaSawmiller

jimmyjames said:


> I've been following this from the beginning and a love a build thread that actually has an bend! Does the Kyle into have a heater or is it just a dh unit? If not what are you using for heat? I'm guessing right now its plenty warm out to keep the kiln at temp



The kiln is basically a large reverse heat pump. The air exhausted is heated and that is what heats the kiln. During a heat cycle the exhaust is only 5 deg warmer than the air that is taken in so insulation of course is important. The kiln is a low temp kiln running between 90 and 120 deg depending on what stage of drying you are in. The oak we just put in is about 13 to 18% moisture so we are running at 110 deg. There are two vents that can be opened or closed one in the rear and one in the front. should it get to hot the vents open to bleed off some of the excess heat. We have an R value of 30 so the outside temp has a low effect on the temp inside the kiln.


----------



## woodtickgreg

Can you get the temp to 130 to 140 degrees for bug kill?


----------



## gvwp

GaSawmiller said:


> Treecycle Hardwoods said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GaSawmiller said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well the kiln isn't finished on the outside but today we started drying lumber! Ill keep posting pictures til its 100% complete but for now here are some pictures of the internals and the door operation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> looks good. How many BF did you fit into the first load?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We put a little more than 1500 BF in there. Its just a test run of red oak 8' and 10' long. It was designed to do up to 4000 BF but we wont put that much in till we have run our test load. The oak is reading between 13 and 18% right now so it should be dry in a couple weeks.
Click to expand...


What temperature are you taking the kiln to in 2 weeks? Just be careful not to push heat to your wood too quick. This will cause splits and warping. I take a full 3 weeks to go from outside air temperature to 128 degrees on 4/4 lumber. Slightly longer on thicker stock. I then hold at 128 for a full week. Poplar can normally go a bit less depending on its original moisture content. Pine seems to take any temp fairly quickly. I dry green pine in about 10 days. Air dried pine in 5-7 days. I'm talking Eastern White Pine. I suppose some more dense pines like Southern Yellow Pine may take just a bit longer.


----------



## GaSawmiller

woodtickgreg said:


> Can you get the temp to 130 to 140 degrees for bug kill?




Yes. While normal drying temp is between 100 and 120 the kiln goes much higher in order to set the pitch in pine or bug kill.


----------



## GaSawmiller

gvwp said:


> GaSawmiller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treecycle Hardwoods said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GaSawmiller said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well the kiln isn't finished on the outside but today we started drying lumber! Ill keep posting pictures til its 100% complete but for now here are some pictures of the internals and the door operation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> looks good. How many BF did you fit into the first load?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We put a little more than 1500 BF in there. Its just a test run of red oak 8' and 10' long. It was designed to do up to 4000 BF but we wont put that much in till we have run our test load. The oak is reading between 13 and 18% right now so it should be dry in a couple weeks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What temperature are you taking the kiln to in 2 weeks? Just be careful not to push heat to your wood too quick. This will cause splits and warping. I take a full 3 weeks to go from outside air temperature to 128 degrees on 4/4 lumber. Slightly longer on thicker stock. I then hold at 128 for a full week. Poplar can normally go a bit less depending on its original moisture content. Pine seems to take any temp fairly quickly. I dry green pine in about 10 days. Air dried pine in 5-7 days. I'm talking Eastern White Pine. I suppose some more dense pines like Southern Yellow Pine may take just a bit longer.
Click to expand...



The wood we just put in has air dried for 4 months because we didn't have the kiln until now but typically we would put the freshly sawn lumber strait in starting at 80 deg and work up to 120 deg in stages as the moisture content drops. Nyle has very specific drying schedules that they sent with the kiln and these are to avoid warping and checking. For yellow pine we will usually dry in 2 to 3 weeks depending on the moisture. Air dried will be complete in 7-10 days with this kiln depending on how many BF we put in at once.


----------



## GaSawmiller

Well much to our surprise the first load of wood is dry. We didnt think it could be dried that quickly without damage but this kiln is meant to do it that way. The lumber was 1200 BF of oak air dried to 18% MC. It is now 6% MC. The high reading was 7.5% and the low reading was 3.6% out of about 30 readings across the lumber. Most readings were 6-6.5%. Whats next is a redesign of the baffles which we think could be much better and then we will work on finishing the outside. Ill be out of town most of this week so Ill try to get some more pictures up next week as we resume our work.


----------



## jimmyjames

What was your temp in the kiln? Also what was the humidity in the kiln while running? How much water was coming out of the output of the dh unit?


----------



## GaSawmiller

jimmyjames said:


> What was your temp in the kiln? Also what was the humidity in the kiln while running? How much water was coming out of the output of the dh unit?



We started at 85 deg and went up to 110 and then 120. The humidity when we started was 74%. When finished the humidity was 30% which is exactly where nyle's charts say it should be in order to get an MC of 6-8% in your lumber. Unfortunately we didnt measure the water being removed but i can tell you that is was a constant flow. We will measure the water next time around but it is very significant.


----------



## gvwp

40% RH is typically the point which I start raising the temperature past 105. I don't raise past 115 until the RH is at 5%. I would still be getting water at 30%. Then again I don't use a Nile unit. I'm sure if Nile recommends those amounts for the unit they must be correct. Just can't understand how the lumber is getting down to 6-8% with humidity inside the kiln at 30%.


----------



## GaSawmiller

gvwp said:


> 40% RH is typically the point which I start raising the temperature past 105. I don't raise past 115 until the RH is at 5%. I would still be getting water at 30%. Then again I don't use a Nile unit. I'm sure if Nile recommends those amounts for the unit they must be correct. Just can't understand how the lumber is getting down to 6-8% with humidity inside the kiln at 30%.



I still have a ton to learn about the Nyle kiln but the good news is that settings are mostly automated and there are charts and graphs that come with the kiln that show you exactly what to set things at for all types of woods and so on. The manual has you set the humidity setting at 30 for the final cycle and when the wood reaches 6% the compressor shuts off automatically. I learn a bit everyday but I think it will be some time before I really understand more that the basics as far as the inner wokings of the kiln.


----------



## Kevin

gvwp said:


> ... Just can't understand how the lumber is getting down to 6-8% with humidity inside the kiln at 30%.



Wood never even approaches a MC close to the RH of its surroundings. 30% RH is quite low, and wood left in such an environment will reach an EMC of approximately 6% to 7%, and that has nothing to do with kiln drying. It will reach that EMC all by itself. 

Your kiln schedules should have charts or at least tables that show that. If not I can send you some.


----------



## Kevin

Here's one I scanned to my desktop . . . 

http://i1077.Rule #2/albums/w468/WoodBarter/RH-MC_zpsef62a760.png


----------



## GaSawmiller

Kevin said:


> Here's one I scanned to my desktop . . .
> 
> http://i1077.Rule #2/albums/w468/WoodBarter/RH-MC_zpsef62a760.png



Thanks for that I may steal it for my desktop. It looks pretty much like the one Nyle sent but I don't have a digital format.


----------



## GaSawmiller

Well we have just finished drying our third load of lumber in the kiln and its working great! We have just gotten around to starting the siding. We are making it out of rough sawn pine in a board and baton style that will be stained and sealed.[attachment=29174][attachment=29175][attachment=29176]


----------



## jimmyjames

3 loads of lumber is 2 weeks?


----------



## GaSawmiller

jimmyjames said:


> 3 loads of lumber is 2 weeks?



Thats right. All dried down to 6%MC and each between 1500 and 200 BF. I should mention that this is lumber that has been waiting for the kiln to be completed so it was air dried to between 23 and 29%.


----------



## woodtickgreg

I have always liked the look of board and batten.


----------



## Mike1950

I have a Daren kiln- set up to dry 500 Bd ft max. - 20" house fan to circulate- very well insulated with a 50 pint dehumidifier. It dries from 16 to 6 and cooks at 130 + in less then a week.


----------



## gvwp

jimmyjames said:


> 3 loads of lumber is 2 weeks?



Yes I agree. Something amiss. Those are vacuum kiln time schedules.


----------



## GaSawmiller

gvwp said:


> jimmyjames said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3 loads of lumber is 2 weeks?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I agree. Something amiss. Those are vacuum kiln time schedules.
Click to expand...


I didn't think it would be that fast either but the first load of 1500 BF went from 20s to 6% in just shy of 4 days. We went in and checked it with a meter and got 6% and thought that cant be right so we got a second meter and longer prongs and got the same readings. The Nyle gets it done. When it gets to temp and starts drying its pulling nearly 2 gallons an hour.


----------



## Mike1950

Mike1950 said:


> I have a Daren kiln- set up to dry 500 Bd ft max. - 20" house fan to circulate- very well insulated with a 50 pint dehumidifier. It dries from 16 to 6 and cooks at 130 + in less then a week.



I might add To help our temps have been in the 90's and humidity in the teens.


----------



## GaSawmiller

Well I know its been a while but we have gotten up the last of the siding and next we are going to trim it out and paint it.[attachment=30469][attachment=30470]


----------

