# Bandsaws



## JR Custom Calls (Apr 17, 2014)

Ok... I know this topic gets beat to death. But, I haven't seen much, if any, info on the two of these saws compared to each other. 

So, as several of you know, I bought an old Delta/Rockwell 14" bandsaw for $40 off craigslist a couple months back. It cuts, but it bogs down really bad. I can't cut 2" thick hedge without feeling like I'm going to burn up the motor... and that's creeping. It also wonders something awful because the blade guide housing is cracked on one side.. That led me to my decision to keep that saw for cutting toneboards and other small stuff, and getting a bigger saw for resawing, precision cuts, etc.

I've narrowed my search down to two saws. Partially because of wiring requirements, partially because of value... and mainly because of cost. I'm limited to a 110/115v power source, and ideally ~15a. Both of these saws are close to 15a, so I would be able to run the DC along with the saw without worrying about overloading a circuit.

The Rikon 14" deluxe has a 13" resaw capacity, 1.5hp motor, bearing guides (which reviews don't necessarily favor very heavily)... http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2020041/18855/rikon-14-deluxe-bandsaw-model-10325.aspx

The Laguna 14-12 has a 12" resaw capacity, 1.75hp motor, ceramic guides... http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2086182/45305/Laguna-14-12-Bandsaw.aspx

I've read nothing but fantastic things about Laguna saws... but not much about this particular saw. It seems that this is their first attempt at a 110v saw, but since I've seen nothing, I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. Question being... is it worth $300 more than the Rikon? 

The Rikon is currently on sale for $799 at my local Woodcraft. The Laguna is currently $1099 and comes with a free $100 value (aka $20) light. The Grizzly 17" 30th anniversary saw was on my radar, but it pulls 20a, and doesn't seem to do anything that the Rikon or Laguna can't... and it's in the same price range with no local retailers. 

So, if you were going to purchase one of these saws, which would it be? A why would be very beneficial as well, as bandsaws are definitely not something I have much experience with.


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## Kevin (Apr 17, 2014)

I don't own either saw, but have heard great things about the Rikon. Laguna has some very happy customers too, but they also have more than a few horrendously dissatisfied customers when it comes to customer service. I cannot remember a company ever that has had such a divergent group of lovers and hater when it comes to Laguna CS. I don't know either way from experience but I have read some scathing reviews by owners. 

As to the bearing guides you know my opinion already. Cheap bearings make for a bad experience. With so many sawyers that love bearings, and so many sawyers that love guides, and so many that hate bearings and so many that hate guides it can only mean one thing to m y mind - the quality and settings are what determine how well or how poorly they will perform. IMO either one can be fantastic. With a $300 difference in those two machines you can afford to buy the Rikon, buy some good guides, and have enough for blades and more blanks too. My choice would be Rikon and who knows may be one day I don't have a 14" saw but need one.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 4


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## Schroedc (Apr 17, 2014)

Not to hijack, You said the blade guide housing is cracked? Can you post a picture for me, I have a box of spare parts for one of those saws.


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 17, 2014)

hijack? This is woodbarter... there's no such thing as hijacking.

Yeah, I'll get a pic this evening when I get home. It's my fault... I cranked the set screw too tight and it split the cast aluminum that the guide slides in to.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Schroedc (Apr 17, 2014)

JR Custom Calls said:


> hijack? This is woodbarter... there's no such thing as hijacking.
> 
> Yeah, I'll get a pic this evening when I get home. It's my fault... I cranked the set screw too tight and it split the cast aluminum that the guide slides in to.




If it's one of these two parts....... The upper guide assembly is cracked where it tightens onto the shaft for raise and lower but the guide block holder is fine and even has the screws in it. the lower assembly could use a new bearing but has no broken parts.


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 17, 2014)

It's the one on the left... for the upper guides. It's cracked all the way across the left guide holder right above the set screw. What would you want for that one?


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## Schroedc (Apr 17, 2014)

JR Custom Calls said:


> It's the one on the left... for the upper guides. It's cracked all the way across the left guide holder right above the set screw. What would you want for that one?




One Million Dollars. Or just send me a box of something.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Funny 1


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 17, 2014)

Ok. I'll get up with you this evening or tomorrow and figure out what. Did you ever find those table inserts?


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## Schroedc (Apr 17, 2014)

I'm going to dump out all the boxes later today and see if they turn up. They have to be here somewhere....


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## Mike1950 (Apr 17, 2014)

That saw- set up right-with right sharp blade should cut 2" like a hot knife going through butter. Is it green wood? You need the right blade????

Reactions: Agree 1


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 17, 2014)

I've tried both 1/2" and 3/4" Olson and timberwolf blades. Must be a bearing somewhere causing part of the problem. And, the gears are stuck in the gearbox and I think that's causing issues.


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 17, 2014)

I have heard good and bad about laguna like Kevin has. I agree with him as far as for the money I too would buy the rikon. Don't get caught up in the hp game, that motor on the laguna if it really is 1.75hp will draw some amps, I personally think it's a bogus number. If I didn't have a decent saw I would be looking at that rikon myself at that price. I have looked at it at wood craft near me, nice guides, good resaw capacity, good dust collection, just add your own light and a good blade. Remember that no saw out of the box is ready to go, you have to tune it up first.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 2


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 17, 2014)



Reactions: Like 6


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 17, 2014)

Let me just say how frikkin happy I am. I only had a chance to cut a few blanks, but it plowed through 8" thick blocks of dry hedge like it was 1/2" pine. I put a 3/4" timberwolf blade on, and got it adjusted... The fence barely needed adjusted for drift. Thanks for the reassurance. I can't wait to saw up some more wood now.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 1


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## Kevin (Apr 17, 2014)

Wait a minute - are you saying since you started this thread less than 9 hours ago, you already:

1) Made up your mind
2) Went and bought the saw
3) Brought it home
4) Set it up
5) Used it
6) Took time to share the experience with us?

Is that what you are saying?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Way Cool 1


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 17, 2014)

Patience isn't something I'm good at. I picked up the saw at 6:55 pm (they close at 7), got home about 7:45, and was cutting wood by 9pm.

FWIW, I only made up my mind to actually go through with a purchase yesterday evening. All I did all day today (aside from attending a meeting at work), was research bandsaws. Once you offered your input, and with Greg having already made some good remarks about the saw yesterday, I jumped on it while they still had one in stock. With the sale, I didn't want to go for one, then find out it would take a month or more to get it.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Mike1950 (Apr 17, 2014)

NICE saw!!!!!!!!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## manbuckwal (Apr 18, 2014)

JR Custom Calls said:


> View attachment 48468


Nice !!!! I've been wanting to get a BS too. I'm thinking this is the model I will go after. You get to be the guinea pig Jonathan, so keep us posted on any issues u may encounter .


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 18, 2014)

Sure will, Tom.

I'm the kind of person who will do as much research as possible before I purchase something. When I visited Mac, I saw that he had this saw and he cut some pot blanks for me while I was there. I noticed how effortlessly he cut them. When I decided to use the old bandsaw I have for toneboards and small stuff, this was the first saw I looked at. I read reviews on woodcrafts website, reviews by people on other websites, youtube videos, etc. It was only after seeing a lot of stuff online about Laguna and Powermatic being the 'cream of the crop' that I decided to look up the Laguna saw. As it was priced very similar to the non-sale price of the Rikon, I wanted to compare the two. I couldn't find anything online specifically comparing the two, but I had read a few things about their customer service. For me, I needed reassurance from some more experienced folks that the Rikon would be the best bang for my buck at the $799 price point. The only negative things I've found on the Rikon are the guides (which I'll end up replacing with carters at some point, although I didn't find them hard to adjust last night), the instructions suck (which, I can agree with that), and the base needs some sort of shim as it doesn't rest perfectly flat on the floor (which, I also found to be true, though nothing that a thin piece of cardboard won't fix). I ended up figuring out how to assemble it without the instructions, because they are really vague. 

Once Kevin brought up Laguna customer service, I started reading some bad things about them. It seems that their bigger saws with italian motors on them are rock solid, but those are also twice or more what the 12-14 costs. If I were in the market for a $2000-3000 saw, I'd have probably went with laguna or powermatic.

I believe this sale ends mid-May, so hopefully I can get some more cutting time in on it before you decide to pull the trigger. Too bad you aren't closer, I'd let you come over and give it a test drive.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## SENC (Apr 18, 2014)

I've been really happy with mine, bet you will, too. I also considered the Laguna, and ended up doing exactly what Kevin suggested above - used the savings for carter guides and some decent blades. Enjoy!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kevin (Apr 18, 2014)

Fantastic postings Jonathan, and I look forward to the continued reviews from you. Perhaps you can start a new thread in the Tool review section and update it as you can. Please use the title Rikon Model 10-325 14" Deluxe Bandsaw so google will point to your thread and draw other prospective owners in, who have done a google search for reviews of that saw.

I'm already looking for an old delta on CL but I sort of hope I don't find one soon because I can't really afford one right now lol but when the time comes and I have enough cha-ching, if there's not a good old USA iron saw on the market I will probably get the Rikon if it is still on sale. I will pay $800 for it but not $1000. The only thing I will do different if I get one and can't get the stock bearing to perform well, I will buy some cool or ceramic blocks for it first instead of the Carters, since A) I have never given cool blocks a chance and B) they get rave reviews and most importantly C) it's less money invested if I do not like them.

What do you plan on doing with your old saw, and what are the specs on it?

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 18, 2014)

Kevin, I'm not sure how you'd put coolblocks on this one... since there's no place for conventional guides like the old delta I have. Once I get some time on this thing, I'll be sure to post a review. I've used 3 bandsaws total in my lifetime. The one I posted the video of on here that was powered with a drill, the old delta, and this Rikon. To say that each saw was a step up, would be an understatement. I am now 100% comfortable retiring the table saw for good, as I had kept it for cuts that needed to be 100% straight since I got so much blade drift with the delta. 

I'm going to keep the old one, maybe fix it up. I don't know my way around the inside, but I'd like to fix the gear box. I'm certain that putting new bearings, fixing that cracked guide block, and fixing the gear box would have this thing in good shape. But, with only a 6" resaw capacity without a riser, it made more sense to get a new one. That said, if someone had a nice small 10" or so bandsaw, I'd probably trade them for it so I didn't have to go through the motions of restoring it. For now, it cuts the duck call inserts well... but there's no comparison between the two.


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## Kevin (Apr 18, 2014)

JR Custom Calls said:


> Kevin, I'm not sure how you'd put coolblocks on this one... since there's no place for conventional guides like the old delta I have.



Aha, I wasn't aware of that.

And you're doing exactly what I was hoping you'd do with your delta. Not just to salvage a good saw, but by refurbishing it you're going to learn more than all the videos can teach you, and down the line any problems you may encounter with you Rikon you'll be much more able to identify and tweak.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 18, 2014)

Yeah, once I build up some more money (the dust collector, band saw, duck jig, mandrel, collet chuck system, etc etc has drained me), I'll probably start ordering some parts for it. 

I forgot to mention... it's a 3/4hp. I'm thinking that part of my issue is that the gear box is dragging it down. It is 3x louder than this Rikon, which surprised me.... then again, I already mentioned my experience level with bandsaws. But, there's definitely a metal on metal sound somewhere, though the bearings seem tight and free.


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## Kevin (Apr 18, 2014)

I thought I'd read somewhere that cool blocks would fit. Read this thread. The image in post #7 is no longer available. I'm a member of the forum and still don't see it so it was probably one of those photobucket links. Ken is still active over there and I have sent him a PM asking for the image. Not saying you should go this route but since I am exploring it I thought I'd share.


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## Sprung (Apr 18, 2014)

Jonathan - nice saw! I had done some research last year when I started dreaming about buying a bandsaw. I came to the conclusion that the saw you just purchased was the saw I was going to save up for and buy. Then I found my old Delta 14" w/ riser block, and I have been very happy with it the handful of times I've used it so far.

Nice buy! Keep us updated on it! And, as Kevin said, post a review!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 18, 2014)

Interesting. I think this would ultimately have the same issue as the stock bearings... it's not so much the bearings that people complain about from what I've seen... it's the adjustment of them. When you tighten them down, you have to hold them steady, or they get out of whack. Paying attention in the slightest will prevent it. But... it's nothing like the carters where you simply twist a knob and they move where you want htem.


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## RayBell (Apr 18, 2014)

Very nice Jonathan. Enjoy.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 18, 2014)

Here's about 10 mins worth of work... Converted a half log in to blanks, and a chunk I had of hedge. Loving it.

Reactions: Like 2 | Way Cool 3


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## Kevin (Apr 18, 2014)

The first time I got my Delta/Rockwell saw tuned up perfectly I thought I was in heaven. It's pure joy ain't it. Congrats on a great tool.


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 18, 2014)

Yeah, i've literally been cutting wood since I got home. Cleared off a shelf to stack up todays work. I made 100+ pen blanks, and I don't even turn pens haha.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 2


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## Kevin (Apr 18, 2014)

Cutting wood is fun. Just use push sticks on those smallsies and remember your thumbs make bad push sticks only good for one mishap.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 18, 2014)

Yessir. Joe, unfortunately, reinforced that for all of us. I am using a 2' piece of 1/2"x2" purpleheart that was leftover after I cut some duck blanks out earlier. Unfortunately, I've run out of wood to cut haha. I guess I need to bag up the pile of scraps left over. I'm amazed at how much sawdust I've put in the DC today... yet the inside of the saw is virtually spotless, with only a tiny bit in the corner furthest from the port. 

I'm going to post an ongoing review of the saw this weekend. I'll update it every month or so with my current thoughts, and how they relate to my initial thoughts. So far, I feel like I've been driving a golf cart and have stepped in to a lambo.


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## shadetree_1 (Apr 18, 2014)

I'll second the thumbs not making good push sticks, by the way Kevin, I'm looking at the same Rikon, do you think it would have the guts for Ironwood ? What hp is it?


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 18, 2014)

@shadetree_1 it's a 1.5hp. I've never even seen ironwood in person, so I can't even begin to guess... but I will say that it cut through 5" hedge without even bogging down with the 3/4" 3TPI Timberwolf blade that I put on it, and I'd swear it had been planed if I didn't know better.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## shadetree_1 (Apr 18, 2014)

JR Custom Calls said:


> @shadetree_1 it's a 1.5hp. I've never even seen ironwood in person, so I can't even begin to guess... but I will say that it cut through 5" hedge without even bogging down with the 3/4" 3TPI Timberwolf blade that I put on it, and I'd swear it had been planed if I didn't know better.


 
It should I think have the guts but I'll have to find out if they make carbide tip blades for it because Ironwood will eat a standard blade in seconds! I wouldn't get through a 12" long piece.


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 18, 2014)

Well, it takes a 111" blade, which seems to be a pretty standard size, so I"d think they would.

I'd offer to have you send me some, but at $50 a blade, I don't know that I'd be very keen on trying it for ya. Would have to be a heck of a chunk with no expectation of a return, but I wouldn't feel right doing that.


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## Kevin (Apr 18, 2014)

shadetree_1 said:


> I'll second the thumbs not making good push sticks, by the way Kevin, I'm looking at the same Rikon, do you think it would have the guts for Ironwood ? What hp is it?



Joe I bet it would for sure. My saw cuts it like butter and for the sizes (less than 4") of DIW I have in stock it's not really any different to ask the Rikon to do that same thing. It seems to have the HP and the engineering to do it based on the reviews I have read. You wanted a saw in the $750 range I believe and with this sale if I were you I'd take the chance. Unless there's a good buy on an old American when I have the cash to buy one, I am probably going to buy the Rikon myself.


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## shadetree_1 (Apr 18, 2014)

Kevin said:


> Joe I bet it would for sure. My saw cuts it like butter and for the sizes (less than 4") of DIW I have in stock it's not really any different to ask the Rikon to do that same thing. It seems to have the HP and the engineering to do it based on the reviews I have read. You wanted a saw in the $750 range I believe and with this sale if I were you I'd take the chance. Unless there's a good buy on an old American when I have the cash to buy one, I am probably going to buy the Rikon myself.


 
I have been looking at craigslist ever since Friday and no good old American iron has come up, well a few older Craftsman 6" but that does me no good and some 0f the older Deltas but I hear horror stores about cheap parts and service on them since they were bought by the Chinese I think, So I think I'll hit Woodkraft on Monday. Thanks guys!

Well I guess I'm not going to Woodcraft, the closest one to me is 50 miles and they are not honoring that sale price, it's $1,000 at their store.


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## Sprung (Apr 18, 2014)

JR Custom Calls said:


> Yeah, i've literally been cutting wood since I got home. Cleared off a shelf to stack up todays work. I made 100+ pen blanks, and I don't even turn pens haha.
> 
> View attachment 48559



Since you've got pen blanks and don't turn pens, I can volunteer to be a nice guy and take them off your hands for you. You know, just to help a guy out!  



shadetree_1 said:


> I have been looking at craigslist ever since Friday and no good old American iron has come up, well a few older Craftsman 6" but that does me no good and some 0f the older Deltas but I hear horror stores about cheap parts and service on them since they were bought by the Chinese I think, So I think I'll hit Woodkraft on Monday. Thanks guys!



Joe, I don't have the experience with bandsaws that Kevin and others have, but I would about wager a guess that you wouldn't be disappointed with the Rikon, from the reading I did on it last year. It sounds like it's a great saw, especially for the money - even better when it's on sale.


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 18, 2014)

Sprung said:


> Since you've got pen blanks and don't turn pens, I can volunteer to be a nice guy and take them off your hands for you. You know, just to help a guy out


I don't turn them... but I gotta pay for this thing somehow! Haha. I'm hoping there are some pen turners out there that will want some yellow, brown, and purple hedge.


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## shadetree_1 (Apr 18, 2014)

Not on sale at the Woodcraft nearest to me, Damn!!


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 18, 2014)

It will be, Joe. The sale hasn't officially started yet. I think it starts 4/25. My store just, for some reason, allowed the sale to begin early here.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Informative 2


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## Kevin (Apr 18, 2014)

shadetree_1 said:


> I have been looking at craigslist ever since Friday and no good old American iron has come up, well a few older Craftsman 6" but that does me no good and some 0f the older Deltas but I hear horror stores about cheap parts and service on them since they were bought by the Chinese I think, So I think I'll hit Woodkraft on Monday. Thanks guys!
> 
> Well I guess I'm not going to Woodcraft, the closest one to me is 50 miles and they are not honoring that sale price, it's $1,000 at their store.



That sucks.


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## SENC (Apr 18, 2014)

Joe - keep an eye on Amazon.com, too. They will usually run the same deal... and if you become a "prime" member you can get 2-day shipping free. I bought mine this way, since the nearest retailer is about 100 miles.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kevin (Apr 18, 2014)

My wife made me a Prime member against my will several years ago and it was the smartest thing she ever did. Besides marry me. Wait a minute that didn't make any sense at all. The last part. But yes the Prime is totally worth it . . . . . . wife and all.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 19, 2014)

Kevin said:


> My wife made me a Prime member against my will several years ago and it was the smartest thing she ever did. Besides marry me. Wait a minute that didn't make any sense at all. The last part. But yes the Prime is totally worth it . . . . . . wife and all.


Your a fortunate man.


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 19, 2014)

I wonder if this would be considered old american iron? I can't tell from the pic what brand it is.... but I found this on CL along with some other woodworking tools. They didn't list a price.


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## Kevin (Apr 19, 2014)

I'm not sure but it looks like an older Central Machinery saw - if so it is a good saw.

I got the image of the cool blocks on the Rikon, from the member over at NC Woodworkers Ken Massingale . . .





He says he loves it.


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 19, 2014)

According to Senc (I think he's the one that mentioned this), they re-did their guides when they changed a few things some time last year. Best guess is the green saws have the old guides, the blue saws have the new guides. 

I still fail to see how this would change anything, since the adjustment seemed to be the complaint from everyone. Keeping the factory adjustment hardware, I just don't see how it would be any different than the roller guides, unless they just wanted the cool blocks. I'd think they'd do the exact same thing? Of course, I'm a novice with these machines as well.


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## Kevin (Apr 19, 2014)

I don't really know about that Jon because I have never seen the saw up close and personal.


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## JR Custom Calls (Apr 19, 2014)

Well, I almost want to try them just to see. I just wish I knew more about what to expect, ya know? While I am extremely happy with this saw, it very well could suck to someone who has used another saw for years and has certain expectations. 

Oh, and I think that saw I linked a pic of is a hilti brand.


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## Kevin (Apr 19, 2014)

Oh my - didn't know Hilti made a band saw it must be a darn good one - and danged expensive.


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## woodintyuuu (Apr 19, 2014)

my experience with rikon bandsaws are 1. they have very good factory service help. VERY VERY good. that said here is why i know this. I bought a rikon 18"
model after testing one out for a wk at campbell folk school. I could not justify the cost of a mimi max or laguna. I knew i was settling. First off went through
3 sets of "sealed Bearings" not sealed which they have fixed, I whent through 8 motors, yes 8 the capacitor on the model motor they were using was not sufficient
tostart motor and ruined them, the two step pulley on the jackshaft was to small so the bladespeed was not sufficient to cut larger wood, John at the factory was the coolest engineer ever said keep killin um ill keep sendin um, i guess he was makin a point to his boss. In the end i replaced the stock motor with a 3 hp marathon
that will never die and put a larger pulley , to increase speed , and once the bearing issue was solved i now have a saw everybit as good as the aformentioned tools,
When i buy another bandsaw it will be an oliver no doubt, but i have kids to put through college Hope this helps anyone , cl

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Mike1950 (Apr 19, 2014)

JR Custom Calls said:


> Well, I almost want to try them just to see. I just wish I knew more about what to expect, ya know? While I am extremely happy with this saw, it very well could suck to someone who has used another saw for years and has certain expectations.
> 
> Oh, and I think that saw I linked a pic of is a hilti brand.




I want to try them is exactly what I say about roller bearings- but I probably won't. i am still on the old steel ones- Hell the saw is only 62 yrs old- they will wear out one of these days.........


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## SENC (Apr 19, 2014)

I'll take a picture of the original ones I replaced so you can compare (I think I saved them). And, yes,I have the green one.


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## woodtickgreg (Apr 20, 2014)

I have a saying "If it aint broke don't fix it" If the bearings and adjusters are working well for you then just use em till they fail and then you could upgrade at that time.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## sbwertz (Apr 27, 2014)

JR Custom Calls said:


> Ok... I know this topic gets beat to death. But, I haven't seen much, if any, info on the two of these saws compared to each other.
> 
> So, as several of you know, I bought an old Delta/Rockwell 14" bandsaw for $40 off craigslist a couple months back. It cuts, but it bogs down really bad. I can't cut 2" thick hedge without feeling like I'm going to burn up the motor... and that's creeping. It also wonders something awful because the blade guide housing is cracked on one side.. That led me to my decision to keep that saw for cutting toneboards and other small stuff, and getting a bigger saw for resawing, precision cuts, etc.
> .



I have a 1946 Delta/Rockwell with a riser kit. It will cut 11 inches. It has the ORIGINAL motor, and I haven't had any problem with it bogging down. I put a 3/4" carbide blade on it to cut ironwood with, and it goes through it like a hot knife through butter. The saw was my grandfather's and I learned to use it when I was about 12 years old. 

If properly tuned, that Delta should do everything you need to do.

Reactions: Agree 3


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