# .45-70 & .35 Rem



## Kevin (Jun 2, 2014)

I don't have a place to go yet, but we have acquired a taste for buffalo meat, and have never eaten elk which is supposed to be even better. I'm curious how many .45-70 shooters are out there? I'm also looking at the .35 REM ... a not-so-popular round because it's not a laser, and can't hit targets 1000 yards away which youtube says is the only fun way to hunt now.  

They are vastly different rounds but it's two different shooting philosophies. The 45-70 is one of the most tried and true big game calibers out there, but it's a round you can only use for big game. The .35 rem can be downloaded for medium game quite easily. If you know me I prefer calibers that are versatile. Plus I don't like overkill. 

Anyone have experience with these 2 rounds?


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## Mike1950 (Jun 2, 2014)

Dad had a .35 and I had a 358 both very effective in their range. I do not know where you plan to hunt elk- but they are sly dogs- nice to be able to reach out a little further then these 2 unless ground is pretty brushy and both would be effective. Shot an elk and a black bear with 358. It was in a lightweight savage 99- it was fast, short, accurate and kicked liked a mule............
only big game I like better then elk is moose-but buff is right there with them.

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## Tclem (Jun 2, 2014)

I like to hunt big game. Finally caught her. Got married an had a youngin.

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## Mike1950 (Jun 2, 2014)

Tclem said:


> I like to hunt big game. Finally caught her. Got married an had a youngin.




Personally young man - I think ya got who got caught backwards.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Mike1950 (Jun 2, 2014)

Back to the rifles- when I lived out in the country I was right at the edge of farmland and wild. Fantastic whitetail- big bucks. I knew where one was opening morning and he was a big one. I also knew no body would be around so I took 2 hours and only got 200 yds. Looking him straight in the eye 25 yds- one of the biggest bucks I had seen -non typical with spikes going every where. Dead meat at that range- I had taken the 358 because of the thick brush- pulled the trigger to the worst sound in the world while you are hunting.............click. Bucks took off running in 3 directions and I could not chamber another round. Somehow a 308 round had got in with the 358 rounds. 358 is a redone 308- Talk about mad..... My 250 would have done the job. I sold the gun soon after- too bad they are worth a lot more then the 175 I paid............ store ammo seperate

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## Kevin (Jun 2, 2014)

Mike1950 said:


> Back to the rifles- when I lived out in the country I was right at the edge of farmland and wild. Fantastic whitetail- big bucks. I knew where one was opening morning and he was a big one. I also knew no body would be around so I took 2 hours and only got 200 yds. Looking him straight in the eye 25 yds- one of the biggest bucks I had seen -non typical with spikes going every where. Dead meat at that range- I had taken the 358 because of the thick brush- pulled the trigger to the worst sound in the world while you are hunting.............click. Bucks took off running in 3 directions and I could not chamber another round. Somehow a 308 round had got in with the 358 rounds. 358 is a redone 308- Talk about mad..... My 250 would have done the job. I sold the gun soon after- too bad they are worth a lot more then the 175 I paid............ store ammo seperate



 

Man that sucks. I can only imagine the disappointment you must have felt. I've always been very careful about crossing ammo but it can happen to anyone. 

As to my choice I should probablt get a 300 win mag and just get it overwith, but I just can't bring myself to shoot such a big gun. I can handle it fine I am stocky and all, but it's my minimalist philosophy. I know discussing best calibers for the type of hunting is like religion and politics but I want to make a really informed buy. One thing that makes it a little hard right now is I don't know where I'll be hunting and that is one of the top 3 concerns when choosing a rifle IMO. I am sure I could drop a 700 pound bull elk at 100 yards with my 30-30 but if I see one 350 yards away I wouldn't even take the shot. 

I don't want to go on one of the guided camp hunts either I am hoping to find a private lease that is affordable. I'm looking through my buddy network right now that's my best chance to find something affordable I think. So I am in no hurry to make my decision for a rifle/caliber combo just yet, but wanted to throw it out there and see what bites. Thanks for the info and that last story was priceless.


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## Schroedc (Jun 2, 2014)

I like the .45-70, Most of my experience with it has been in a Thompson Contender and FWIW with a short barrel like that the .44 mag is probably equivalent. In a lever gun I used to regularly shoot at 150 yards with open sights, It does drop a lot though after 100 yards.....


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## Kevin (Jun 2, 2014)

Yes I shoot open with my 30-30 and the I agree the drop really gets bad with it too. It starts falling off the planet past 200 yards. I wouldn't shoot game past 150 with it but I never see anything that far out anyway in my brush. For western game scenarios I am starting to think I really need to get one of the flat shooters. I like the 7 mag but why stop there might as well get the 300 WM so I can shoot the ultra heavy bullets. 

This is what I always go through when I start hunting for my next gun. I go all over the map.

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## Schroedc (Jun 2, 2014)

Buy yourself a Ruger No. 1 in .458 Mag. That should do the job on anything up to large trucks or small tanks

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## Mike1950 (Jun 2, 2014)

I would find out where you were hunting first. Suit the gun to the terrain. My hunting experience - Elk are very smart and Damn tough. They can go through brush at high speed on a steep slope- make so much noise they will scare you.
Dad was not the best shot in the world- at least when he was shooting at game. 1961- first year I got to go elk hunting- I had no gun- just along for my eyes. Wenatchee canyon in the Blue mt-SW Washington. The terrain- pretty simple- where the elk were it was either straight up or down. You could see much further then you could shoot but elk were usually hunkered down in the draws 1000 yds+- ridge to ridge. I spotted a herd(20) 125yds away-we were headed down ridge-they were crossing it -dad took a shot at lead bull as he went into brush- then took quick neck shot on 5 point at tail end of herd- knocked him down- dad looked at rest of herd milling around- front wanted to go back and back wanted to go forward-stalemate- I hollered he is getting up- dad-quick shot again-down he goes- dad looks away- I holler again- bull is headed toward brush- he shoots again. bull down again but back up as dad shoots his last shot- bull goes into brush. He loads and down into the steep bad stuff we go- 200 yds down hill bull is stuck in big bush. 2 non fatal neck shots and one front knee shot and useless and the other side back knee the same. Damn thing would still be running if he had not got caught in bush. His rifle- rem 721 30/06 The next year or yr after he got 7mm mag
That trip downhill cost us a half day getting him back up- that is after he was quartered.
Get in good shape- they live in rough ground................... Fun hunting though


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## Mike1950 (Jun 2, 2014)

Kevin said:


> Man that sucks. I can only imagine the disappointment you must have felt. I've always been very careful about crossing ammo but it can happen to anyone.
> 
> As to my choice I should probablt get a 300 win mag and just get it overwith, but I just can't bring myself to shoot such a big gun. I can handle it fine I am stocky and all, but it's my minimalist philosophy. I know discussing best calibers for the type of hunting is like religion and politics but I want to make a really informed buy. One thing that makes it a little hard right now is I don't know where I'll be hunting and that is one of the top 3 concerns when choosing a rifle IMO. I am sure I could drop a 700 pound bull elk at 100 yards with my 30-30 but if I see one 350 yards away I wouldn't even take the shot.
> 
> I don't want to go on one of the guided camp hunts either I am hoping to find a private lease that is affordable. I'm looking through my buddy network right now that's my best chance to find something affordable I think. So I am in no hurry to make my decision for a rifle/caliber combo just yet, but wanted to throw it out there and see what bites. Thanks for the info and that last story was priceless.



What made it worse is I have never owned a 308- no clue as to how I got it........


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## ButchC (Jun 2, 2014)

Mike1950 said:


> Dad had a .35 and I had a 358 both very effective in their range. I do not know where you plan to hunt elk- but they are sly dogs- nice to be able to reach out a little further then these 2 unless ground is pretty brushy and both would be effective. Shot an elk and a black bear with 358. It was in a lightweight savage 99- it was fast, short, accurate and kicked liked a mule............
> only big game I like better then elk is moose-but buff is right there with them.



Mmmmmmmmmm. Moose.


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## HomeBody (Jun 3, 2014)

You are struggling with the old dilemma, power vs. accuracy. Elmer Keith says shoot the largest caliber you can accurately shoot. Jack O'Connor says shoot a lighter, faster bullet and concentrate on accuracy and shot placement. They are both passed away now, but both of their arguments have valid points.

I used to have a Rem. Mod. 81 Woodmaster in .35 Rem. Semi-auto, designed by John Browning. I never hunted with it but it was a real powerhouse at close range. I loved that thing but had to sell it when I was out of work...for $250! The Woodmaster in .35 Rem is what Frank Hammer and his men used to ambush Bonnie and Clyde. If you've ever seen the car they were in, you'd know what several .35 Rem semi auto rifles can do. They had special police versions with 20 shot detachable mags. Gary

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Kevin (Jun 3, 2014)

Gary that's cool to know I had been thinking all these years Hamer and his men used .45 Thomson sub guns. 



HomeBody said:


> You are struggling with the old dilemma, power vs. accuracy.



This is why I am being gnawed by the idea to go with at least a 7 mag - it pretty much has both.


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## JR Custom Calls (Jun 3, 2014)

If you're leaning towards a 7mm, check out the 7mm WSM. Very accurate out to 500 yards or so, but also packs a nice punch. 

Been a while since I read up on them, but Thompson makes (or at least did) a single shot muzzle loader that you can swap barrels out for various centerfire calibers. I can't look it up right now, but if you could get a couple different barrels you'd have one good all around gun for about anywhere you went.

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## Schroedc (Jun 3, 2014)

JR Custom Calls said:


> If you're leaning towards a 7mm, check out the 7mm WSM. Very accurate out to 500 yards or so, but also packs a nice punch.
> 
> Been a while since I read up on them, but Thompson makes (or at least did) a single shot muzzle loader that you can swap barrels out for various centerfire calibers. I can't look it up right now, but if you could get a couple different barrels you'd have one good all around gun for about anywhere you went.




He's talking about the Encore, They make a 209/.50 caliber black powder barrel and a number of rifle barrels, Also pistol barrels and a different grip available for it as well.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## JR Custom Calls (Jun 3, 2014)

Yep, that's it. Been a while since I had looked at them.


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## Kevin (Jun 3, 2014)

JR Custom Calls said:


> If you're leaning towards a 7mm, check out the 7mm WSM.



Man I have been down the 7mm mag vs 7mm-08 vs 7mm WSM vs 7mm STW rabbit hole and in the end I decided if I am going down the 7mm path maybe a surplus Mauser (7 x 57) would be the best of all. 

I'm only half joking. I just recvently bought my stepson a Mauser so I have it available. And if I get a 7mm anything it's going to be the long mag, but I honestly cannot see the advantage of spending that kind of dough when his Mauser is a better round and available. And still accurate as it is. I'd just need to scope it for open range shooting.


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## Kevin (Jun 3, 2014)

And by the way the Mauser was made by Husqvarna so even though not as powerful as the 7 rem mag you know it's the better choice.


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## Mike1950 (Jun 3, 2014)

Dad had a 7mm mag- it was decent to shoot, accurate, great gun in the open ground hunting. Short range in the brush- might be a different story. FIL had a model 600 Rem with the laminated maple and walnut stock in the 350 mag. Light and quick but my skinny 5'10 150 lb frame at the time sure did not like to lay down and shoot it- it was light weight and kicked hard. Pretty effective to 300 yds and it really was a nice brush gun. Shot a bear with it also and had a great shot at elk-100yds that a steep mossy -wet slope and a 50 slow motion slide down it kinda interfered with. My FIL did not take the shot -he was laughing too hard.......


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## Kevin (Jun 3, 2014)

This may be more novelty than affordable flexibility, but it is surely interesting. 






If I were to get one of these, I would buy it for Group B family. Look at all the calibers you can shoot in that family. And I already have ammo in all the Group B calibers except the 7mm-08 Remington. 


 

Platform cost is $700 retail which includes one barrel - I am finding them much cheaper online though I do not know what inventories are actually like. If you want to shoot another caliber in the same group you just buy the barrel for that caliber. From what I have read the magazine and mag well are included in the price of the barrel and barrels are allegedly $99. Like I say - very intersting concept but I don't know how it actually plays out as to inventory. They guarantee 1 MOA out of the box and I cannot shoot better than that anyway no more than I shoot.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## HomeBody (Jun 4, 2014)

Mike1950 said:


> Dad had a 7mm mag- it was decent to shoot, accurate, great gun in the open ground hunting. Short range in the brush- might be a different story. FIL had a model 600 Rem with the laminated maple and walnut stock in the 350 mag. Light and quick but my skinny 5'10 150 lb frame at the time sure did not like to lay down and shoot it- it was light weight and kicked hard. Pretty effective to 300 yds and it really was a nice brush gun. Shot a bear with it also and had a great shot at elk-100yds that a steep mossy -wet slope and a 50 slow motion slide down it kinda interfered with. My FIL did not take the shot -he was laughing too hard.......



I always wanted a Rem 600. They were the only rifle I've ever seen with a ventilated rib. Don't know if it helped anything but it sure looked impressive. Gry


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## SubVet10 (Aug 14, 2014)

45-70 may be the most prolific cartridge- it downed 100 of millions of buffalo and deer and bear. But the .458 beats it. 
American Rifleman Nov 2013 did a great spread on the .35 family. It is the author's favorite round. The 350 RemMag is a bit faster than the 358 Win, while the 358 wildcats have obscene performance. 
Another article I read postulated the best AR platform was the 7mm-08

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## gman2431 (Aug 14, 2014)

My father is a competitive shooter and I've spent some time behind quite a few of these guns listed. 

Its such a round and round topic when it comes to speed, power, ya ya ya. The best advise ever is to shoot a couple and see what you like. After all, its your gun! Lol. 

Seriously tho, I personally like the 38 55 over the 45 70 if that's the route you want to go. 

If I wanted horsepower it'd be something of an ultra mag or along those lines. Of course after I got it back from Magna Port, which does a dam fine job of making those things thump ya less. 

Good luck with your decision! There's a ton of em!


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## Mike Jones (Aug 14, 2014)

Mr "Old School" here....and I'm thinkin' you ought to be lookin' at bullets and bullet choices rather than shootin' irons and calibers. I've been biased toward ought-six since I was in diapers....and now that I have the old man's prostate, I might be in diapers again....and I am still a 30.06 man. 220 grain round nose is a good round in heavy brush, and will put bull elk or bear right on it's ass. You still have to make a good shot, no matter what you carry.
Load up some 125 gr hollow points for your .o6 and go shoot some milk bottles or melons for a good laugh!

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## robert flynt (Aug 14, 2014)

Have you thought about a 300WSM. You can go from 150 grain bullets up.


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