# Question for the knifemakers . . .



## Kevin (Feb 20, 2013)

I've been wanting to make a Persian skinner, and I know zilch about knife making. kfuknives was going to make one for me but he's fallen off the map. My first question is, is this a decent blade? It seems awful cheap if it is. 

My second question is, does anyone know of a blank supplier that has a Damascus blank closer to this Persian shape (post # 21) and 5" blade length? 

I have the knife-making itch but cannot make the blade so I need one ready to go.


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## scrimman (Feb 20, 2013)

As I'm looking at the edge of the knife, I'm not seeing the pattern continue into it. I'm thinking that's not actual Damascus, but blade acid etched to look that way. I could be wrong, but I doubt it......
Look up Craig Barr on Ebay, or look up 'Alabama Damascus'. Each makes their own damascus, and do it well. email them and see if they would be willing to make a blank for you. Or, grab a billet from Alabama Damascus and make your own! (Craig quit selling billets a few years back; that's what mine is made of) 
Or, for that matter, they might already have something up that'll fit the bill.


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## Steelart99 (Feb 20, 2013)

Kevin said:


> I've been wanting to make a Persian skinner, and I know zilch about knife making. kfuknives was going to make one for me but he's fallen off the map. My first question is, is this a decent blade? It seems awful cheap if it is.
> 
> My second question is, does anyone know of a blank supplier that has a Damascus blank closer to this Persian shape (post # 21) and 5" blade length?
> 
> I have the knife-making itch but cannot make the blade so I need one ready to go.



K, the 1095 steel and 15n20 is a fine mix for a damascus steel and it has supposedly been hardened to RC 60 which is actually on the high end for a knife like this. I didn't see, but this likely made in Pakistan or similar (based on the price). That doesn't make it a bad knife, but I have seen bad steels / blades from that region. I'll search around and see if I can find a Persian style in that style and in damascus.
D


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## Steelart99 (Feb 20, 2013)

scrimman said:


> As I'm looking at the edge of the knife, I'm not seeing the pattern continue into it. I'm thinking that's not actual Damascus, but blade acid etched to look that way. I could be wrong, but I doubt it......
> Look up Craig Barr on Ebay, or look up 'Alabama Damascus'. Each makes their own damascus, and do it well. email them and see if they would be willing to make a blank for you. Or, grab a billet from Alabama Damascus and make your own! (Craig quit selling billets a few years back; that's what mine is made of)
> Or, for that matter, they might already have something up that'll fit the bill.



The fact that the pattern does not continue to the edge simply means that it was ground/sharpened after the damascus was etched. That is a common technique. As you pointed out, there are other sources ... actually there are quite a few good knifemakers out there who make damascus knives. Most are in the business to make complete knives, not to sell pre-made blades. Most of those come from overseas.


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## Kevin (Feb 20, 2013)

Dan I sent the seller a question asking where the knife was made and what region if in Pakistan etc. - maybe he'll tell us. 

Sean I'm checking out the Alabama Damascus stuff now - great looking blanks. 


Great info guys thanks a lot.


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## Mike1950 (Feb 20, 2013)

My 2 cents for what it is worth. I have found the Pakistan knifes to be much thicker then the Japanese knifes- 1/16 vs 1/8 plus. I have bought quite a few off of ebay, couple from woodcraft, one custom made in Idaho and a half dozen from premium knifes. Another thing about the Paki knifes that makes me wonder is trying to drill the holes larger in them leads me to believe that the whole knife is hardened- not just the cutting part. I am under the impression this is not right. The 2 knifes that have in my opinion- (use and sharpening)- the best steel was the Idaho custom the paring(premium Knifes) and the Satanko from woodcraft. These last to are Japanese blades and the sharpen VERY sharp and stay sharp. They are Kathie's go to knifes.


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## NYWoodturner (Feb 20, 2013)

Mike1950 said:


> My 2 cents for what it is worth. I have found the Pakistan knifes to be much thicker then the Japanese knifes- 1/16 vs 1/8 plus. I have bought quite a few off of ebay, couple from woodcraft, one custom made in Idaho and a half dozen from premium knifes. Another thing about the Paki knifes that makes me wonder is trying to drill the holes larger in them leads me to believe that the whole knife is hardened- not just the cutting part. I am under the impression this is not right. The 2 knifes that have in my opinion- (use and sharpening)- the best steel was the Idaho custom the paring(premium Knifes) and the Satanko from woodcraft. These last to are Japanese blades and the sharpen VERY sharp and stay sharp. They are Kathie's go to knifes.



Mike - on a fixed blade knife I think you have to harden the entire knife. I'm really asking a question as much as making a statement. My experience in this part of knife making is limited to the two marking knives I made for Matt. Those I drilled before I heat treated them - because I saw no other way. I'm anxious to see the knife makers weigh in here,


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## Mike1950 (Feb 20, 2013)

I think I have read different. Some of the better ones the front hole is harder to drill larger then the back hole. But I also will be curious as to the answer. But again the blade has to hold and edge but the Hank? has to be strong and flexible so it is not as hard. that is the way I see it. We shall find out.


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## Kevin (Feb 20, 2013)

Dan the seller answered back - yes it's made in Pakistan "region unknown". Quality maybe unknown too? .


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## Steelart99 (Feb 20, 2013)

Kevin said:


> Dan the seller answered back - yes it's made in Pakistan "region unknown". Quality maybe unknown too? .



Yes ... quality unknown. You take your chances.

BTW, fixed blade knives can be "completely" hardened which is the easy way, or differentially hardened which is what many knifemakers do. The idea is to have a hard edge with a softer backspine and a soft handle area. This provides more blade flexiblity and less chance of breaking/chipping a blade plus the softer handle area makes it easier to attach handle materials. 

A blade will be heated to critical temperature, soaked for the appropriate time for the alloy, then the edge only will be quenched (usually in an oil) to get it past the hardenabilitiy stage ... then the whole knife is quenched to cool it. The grain on the edge is then different than the grain on the backspine. One hard ... one softer. This process can also be accomplished by putting a heavy clay coat on the backspine then quenching the entire blade. The clay coat slows down the hardening of the back that way. Regardless, once quenched (hardened) the blades then have to go through several thermal cycles (tempering) to bring back the screaming hardness to a more usable (and less breakable) hardness level.


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## Kevin (Feb 20, 2013)

While we're dissecting the cutting edge of knife technology I may as well ask y'all to take a stab at this next question; I think y'all can handle it though. 

I'm also looking at getting a ceramic blade to make for my wife. I've read this comparison. How does the comparison look to you who may own ceramic knives? I realize these kind of comparisons can get a little dicey.


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## scrimman (Feb 20, 2013)

All I can tell you is that my wife loves hers, but if you drop it its done for.


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## NYWoodturner (Feb 20, 2013)

Steelart99 said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> > Dan the seller answered back - yes it's made in Pakistan "region unknown". Quality maybe unknown too? .
> ...



Thanks! Thats good info and very interesting.


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## Mike1950 (Feb 20, 2013)

We bought some for the kids- great at first but I think they are difficult to sharpen...... at least they think so.


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## NYWoodturner (Feb 20, 2013)

I have a ceramic blade in the shop my FIL bought at woodcraft and asked me to make for him. It's been there 2 years now and I'm still looking at it. May be the "old dog and new tricks" thing but it's kind of like a football bat to me. Just doesn't quite compute.


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## Steelart99 (Feb 20, 2013)

Never tried to make one ... but I do like my ceramic kitchen knife. Like the Shoemaker who's children have no shoes ... I have storebought knives in my kitchen and they never stay sharp except for the ceramic one. Just sayin ...


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## Steelart99 (Feb 20, 2013)

Kevin said:


> Dan I sent the seller a question asking where the knife was made and what region if in Pakistan etc. - maybe he'll tell us.
> 
> Sean I'm checking out the Alabama Damascus stuff now - great looking blanks.
> 
> ...



I checked out Alabama Damascus and I like their work too. Us Alabamians are a talented sub-culture


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## AXEMAN58 (Feb 20, 2013)

Kevin, you might take a look at Jantz Supply. They have some great LOOKING Demascus, and also some very nice raw steel for knife making.


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