# Rant....



## Alan Sweet (Sep 29, 2017)

Politicians, civil service employees and lawyers. They care nothing about the pain and misery they cause others. The standard response of any is "It's not my job.", "It's some body else fault." "It's not my responsibility."... (Translated: I could care less.)

The world would be a better place if the whole lot of them were fish food. At least, they would be providing some value to the world.

Short story. Birmingham City Hall screwed up a bunch of vendor lics and blame the vendors for not catching it sooner. Technically the effected vendors have been breaking the law since April. Guess who has to lose time and $$ to get them repaired. The Vendors. 

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Reactions: Agree 4 | Great Post 1 | Sincere 2


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## Mike1950 (Sep 29, 2017)

we are the government and we are here to help you......

Reactions: Agree 1


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## barry richardson (Sep 29, 2017)

I just got a taste of that when I recently went to the VA to update my status to married. Took hours for a simple document, and was treated like an inmate.....

Reactions: Sincere 2


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## NYWoodturner (Sep 29, 2017)

barry richardson said:


> I just got a taste of that when I recently went to the VA to update my status to married. Took hours for a simple document, and was treated like an inmate.....

Reactions: Agree 1


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## rocky1 (Sep 29, 2017)

Want to spin someone up down here with government, just let them try and build a new house/move in a new trailer house.

First you have to have a building permit, or a move on permit.

Property has to be surveyed, survey submitted to the county for consideration. 

Then you have to apply for a power pole permit. Pay several hundred dollars! Before you can set the temporary pole.

Then you have to have a septic permit. - You have to submit house plans and a survey of the property! Pay several hundred dollars. County has to review the plans, then they review the site, then they tell you what kind of septic system you will install.

If there is another home within so many feet of yours, you have to have a population density study. Pay several hundred dollars!

If there's no approach on the highway, you have to have a culvert permit. Pay several hundred dollars!

And, there is several other hoops to jump through in all of this.

Problem is... They don't explain all of these steps. You aren't notified of each, until the last one is complete. (_Probably because if they told you how much bulllshit you have to go through to build a new house, no one would ever build one here._)

Sister had a modular home built, was going to set it on property Dad owned, couldn't do it because the property wasn't titled in her name. Old man set up a contract for deed, titled it in her name.

Old man carried everything in for the Move-On Permit after the title cleared, and dropped it off. Called up 5 business days later to question what the status was on the Septic Permit. They told him, that he hadn't dropped the paperwork off. He said, "The hell I didn't I dropped it off last Wednesday for the Building Permit."

They said, "Well that's a different office sir. You have to submit that to our office, when they're done with it."

At which point my father said, "You are kidding me, right? I live 15 miles from the courthouse, and I have to drive to town, park my vehicle, walk into the courthouse, go through security, take the elevator to the basement, pick that chickenshit application up, carry it 30 ft. down the damn hall and hand it to you, so you can look at it and charge me $400 for a ^%%$#%#^% septic permit?"

And, the ladies at the courthouse said... "Uhmmm... Yes sir, I'm afraid that is correct."

So he did! And, he handed it to them, and he told the lady, "This is absolutely ridiculous! The lady down there in that other office, could have carried this ^*%$#*^%_* application down here to you, when she went to pee, because the damn ladies room is right across the hall, and there is no doubt in my mind that she walks down here at least once a day!"

So they reviewed the information for the septic permit, and my sister went in a few days later to check on it. And, upon review of the information submitted, along with her check for several hundred dollars, they proceeded to tell her, "Well according to the information you submitted you have to have a population density survey performed on that property, before we can issue the septic permit."

So my sister said, "Well what do I have to do to get the population density survey done?" And, the lady told her, "You have to fill out this application, and submit a check for $400 more dollars. Once that fee has been paid, we can issue the Move-On Permit, and the inspector will determine what you need for a septic tank and drain field, before that can be installed."

At which point my sister's lineage came through, she lost her cool, and said, "And, like what? I'm just supposed to reach up my ass and magically pull $400 dollars out? Why can't you people get your bat guana together and give someone a list of ALL the ^%*&%$* hoops you expect someone to jump through when they start this *^&_*&^%^%$ fiasco?"

So she called dad, and explained the situation to him; he said he'd take care of it. He gets in the truck, drives 15 miles to town, AGAIN, parks his truck, walks into the courthouse, goes through security, takes the elevator downstairs, AGAIN, explains to them how damned ridiculous all of this bat guana is, AGAIN, and writes them the check for another $400.

At which point, they tell him, that they can't give him the permit, because it's not issued in his name!

But... not before the lady that had waited on my sister came out to express her displeasure about the way my sister had spoke to her, when she dropped this additional $400 bombshell on her, out of the blue! Dad explained, that she was his daughter, and the woman was damned lucky that all she did was talk ugly to her, considering the endless rash of crap they'd put her through thus far, trying to get all the necessary permits. 

So the old man, calls the sister up, she fortunately had an open class the next hour, said she'd come back down. She has to go back out to her car, drive across town, AGAIN, park in the parking lot, walk in the courthouse, go through security, take the elevator downstairs, AGAIN, go down the hall and pick up her permit.

Which she turned and handed the old man. He held it in the air for all to see, whistled loudly, and flipped the bitch that was giving them so much grief off, before walking out with the permit.

When the septic permit was finally issued, because the hard pan, was relatively shallow, she was required to install what is essentially an above ground drain field, (_commonly referred to by most around here as and "elephant graves", because it looks like you buried a flippin elephant in the backyard when you're done_). But, the specs required that the site be excavated 2.5 feet, (_approximately 1.5 feet below the hardpan in that location_), and backfilled 2 feet with sand. HELLO!!! If you gotta build it above ground, because the hard pan is shallow, and you have to dig the hard pan out, why has it gotta be above ground??? 


Thought maybe the stupidity was just here locally! WRONG!!!


Sister-in-law found an add for nice used double wide, Alachua County, huge 28 x 80, really cheap, looked great in pictures. Went down to look at it, trailer is immaculate, older couple from south Florida, it was their weekend getaway, extremely well maintained. They're retiring, building a new home, furniture won't work in the new house, so most of the furniture and all of the appliances go with it. Deal is too good to be true!! Trailer and furniture are like 10 years old, been lived in occasional weekends, week or two here and there, by an elderly couple that doesn't smoke, had no pets. They bought it new, everything is like new.

Only catch is... they can't let it go, until their house is built. Everybody else is in a hurry, brother and sister-in-law aren't. They just submitted the final permit application, (_this was in January_), and should be ready to start construction in 2 - 3 weeks. House shouldbe done, and they should be ready to let the trailer go, by mid-June. They didn't get their build permit until the end of JULY! Brother and sister-in-law are supposed to get the trailer mid-October now. 

She was kind of prepared for the permitting process, after the sister's experience, but the stupidity is still endless. They've been living in the same house for 20+ years, raised 3 kids in the house, have constantly had one of my brother's dead beat buddies sleeping on the couch, kid's always had someone staying over, they have never had a minutes trouble with the septic system. It hasn't been pumped but once in 20 years, and has never given them any trouble. Kids are all grown and gone now, just the two of them, they both work, home in the evenings and on weekends. Old house was 3 bedroom, new one is 4 bedroom, county was going to make them replace the entire septic system!

Sister-in-law tells the guy hooking it up, he pulls out his phone, calls the courthouse, says... "There was an error on that application submitted on Jeff Lane, that house has 3 bedrooms and an office in the new home." The folks at the courthouse, say... "Oh! In that case, they 'may' have to extend the drain field, but a new septic system won't be necessary."

I'm pretty damn sure I will never build or have a new home moved on, so long as I shall live!

Reactions: Great Post 2 | Sincere 2


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## Schroedc (Sep 30, 2017)

rocky1 said:


> Want to spin someone up down here with government, just let them try and build a new house/move in a new trailer house.
> 
> First you have to have a building permit, or a move on permit.
> 
> ...



Around here the county is forcing folks to update to newer mound type septic systems even with conventional systems that were installed less than five years ago if they want to sell the house. So I know a number of folks that won't/can't sell because of the cost of a new system to replace what is basically an almost new system.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mike1950 (Sep 30, 2017)

Being in the building trades my whole working life I have plenty of stories. The permit process has become an unregulated cash cow for Local government. I bought a permit for a 1700 sq. ft house in 1982- total permit cost - $199. no strings attached. In 2007 we added an entryway on our house. 11x11 inside and 11 x 6 covered entry. $1000 for permit. along with permit came multiple inspections by a ill mannered know it all punk kid. It is what happens when you give people power long before they get responsibility. We passed each inspection but only because I had learned long ago to curb my tongue.....

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## sprucegum (Sep 30, 2017)

Mike1950 said:


> we are the government and we are here to help you......


11 very freighting words

Reactions: Agree 2


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## sprucegum (Sep 30, 2017)

There are a handful of towns in this part of the state that still have no zoning and no town permit is required to build anything, however state guidelines still need to be met. I friend of mine built a hunting camp in one of these towns several years ago. He went to the town office to enquire about permits and codes, the town clerk informed him that nothing was required as far as permits. He then asked about building codes the clerk was unsure but one of the select board members happened to be in the office so she referred the question to him. The crusty old farmer type selectman asked if my friend was going to live in the cabin to which friend replied "well I guess some of the time" board member replied " in that case you need to build it so it is fit to live in, we don't want nobody in this town living in a house that ain't fit to live in".

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## CWS (Sep 30, 2017)

barry richardson said:


> I just got a taste of that when I recently went to the VA to update my status to married. Took hours for a simple document, and was treated like an inmate.....


I'm sorry that you are having trouble with V.A. I see the V,A. doctors often and have not had a complaint for any of the service I have received. I think it depends on the part of the country you live in. My turn may be coming, but for now my VA service excels compared to what the local hospitals and doctors provide

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ralph Muhs (Sep 30, 2017)

rocky1 said:


> Want to spin someone up down here with government, just let them try and build a new house/move in a new trailer house.
> 
> First you have to have a building permit, or a move on permit.
> 
> ...





rocky1 said:


> Want to spin someone up down here with government, just let them try and build a new house/move in a new trailer house.
> 
> First you have to have a building permit, or a move on permit.
> 
> ...


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## rocky1 (Sep 30, 2017)

I got spoiled living in rural ND for 25 years, you want to build something... You go to the city auditor's office tell him you want a building permit. Pay a modest fee, whichever Commissioner is in charge of such, whom you always knew, stopped by, looked at what you had planned, gave you a permit, had a beer or four, chatted for 2 hours about the weather, crops, fishing, kids, whatever, and all was right in the world. I'd choke someone to the brink of death if I had to deal with this B_S_!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Schroedc (Sep 30, 2017)

With the flood in 2007 in Rushford we had to do a LOT of repairs and rebuilding. I managed to piss off the city right quick because they demanded we have a signed contract with an electrician for the rewire on the house before they'd issue the building permit. Well, In Minnesota a homeowner can do his own wiring in his own dwelling, it just has to pass the same inspection an electricians work would. After 36 hours of back and forth with the City, I called a local TV station, let them know they were requiring something we didn't need and asked if they wanted to look into collusion between the electricians in the area and the city for forcing us to hire one (We all knew that was what was going on as the local electricians were using the flood as a gold mine to finance their own repairs) The TV station said sounded like a great story, made a couple phone calls and all of a sudden I had someone from the city knocking on my door with my building permit.... Made sure that everyone I met knew the law and could get their permit without signing a contract with an electrician. Did get a bit hard to find one locally when time came to do the meter hookup (That is the one thing you have to have an electrician do) but I lucked out and found a licensed electrician who was in town volunteering on a cleanup crew who was willing to do it for me. By the time everything was all said and done I was on great terms with the electrical and building inspectors so now when I do a project they are decent and respectful since they know I understand what I'm doing.

Reactions: Like 1


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## drycreek (Sep 30, 2017)

rocky1 wife and I built in Mount Plymouth just East of Mount Dora in 94 paid roughly 10 thousand in permits and impact fees before construction ever began. We had looked at land in Volousia County before building in M P and it was 1 mile from a paved road the county wanted us to pave, curb and put in sewer and water lines to the property line before they would issue a permit. I told them to go fly a kite in no uncertain terms. Sold out in 95 right after completion and was the best thing we ever did. So I know exactly what you mean when you say Florida is a nightmare.


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## rocky1 (Sep 30, 2017)

Well yeah... If you foot the bill for the pavement, curb and gutter, and water and sewer, they'll spec bigger pipes, charge you the cost of installing a respectable size line, 2" - 3", city pays the difference to increase size of pipe, and the mile of land between you and the highway just quadrupled in value and buyer appeal! 

Technically, they are supposed to assess all subsequent connections a portion of installation costs, and reimburse you on a deal like that, each time one is added. The operative word there being "supposed to".


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## Jim Beam (Sep 30, 2017)

rocky1 said:


> Want to spin someone up down here with government, just let them try and build a new house/move in a new trailer house.




Too long, didn't read. Cliff's Notes version?


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## rocky1 (Sep 30, 2017)

Repeated antagonism... 

Permit after Permit, hoop after hoop to jump through; will not give you a list of ALL requirements up front. Every time you think you are done, you're slapped with another hurdle. 

County wants cash, for all of it, several thousand dollars in permit and inspection fees, but they're too damned lazy to walk your application 30 ft. down the hall to the next office. Demand you drive 15 miles to town, pick up your application, and advance it through the permitting process office by office.


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## barry richardson (Sep 30, 2017)

CWS said:


> I'm sorry that you are having trouble with V.A. I see the V,A. doctors often and have not had a complaint for any of the service I have received. I think it depends on the part of the country you live in. My turn may be coming, but for now my VA service excels compared to what the local hospitals and doctors provide


I was just dealing with an admin person who filed claims and such, she was impatient and curt and acted like she was doing me a favor. But in general my experience with the VA hasn't been bad. And fortunately, I don't have to deal with them that much.....

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## Nature Man (Oct 1, 2017)

Feel bad for anyone that has to go through hell just to build on their own land! I've taken out several here in Northern CA. They weren't that expensive, and the County and the building inspectors have always been courteous. Heard plenty of horror stories through the rumor mills though. Chuck


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## Ralph Muhs (Oct 1, 2017)

Been there. Done that. "It is easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission ". Also, circumvent, evade, lie, misinform, and sometimes bribe. But always be nicel

Reactions: Funny 1


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## rocky1 (Oct 1, 2017)

It works the same way with DOT officers.


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## Ralph Muhs (Oct 1, 2017)

In Illinois, the county forced me to pay $6000 to put chipped rock and oil on a public road "to pay to upgrade the road because of the added traffic caused by my new house". But there was no added traffic. I already lived there, and only one person lived down at the end of the road. The same agency tried to force me to build a bridge over my two acre pond "to allow access to another public road". But they made it clear that I could never access that same road. They tried to force me to build a bridge to nowhere! I successfully won this argument by going to a county board meeting and arguing this ridiculous case. 

Here in West Virginia I just built my house without a permit, then got a permit when I was about half done. The health department wasn't happy, but they begrudgingly issued a permit to build an Elgin septic system. The building inspector was a nice guy who treated me fairly, after I presented him with a small "token of appreciation". 

In Connecticut, we try to work discretely, in the off season. And I do everything myself


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## sprucegum (Oct 1, 2017)

barry richardson said:


> I was just dealing with an admin person who filed claims and such, she was impatient and curt and acted like she was doing me a favor. But in general my experience with the VA hasn't been bad. And fortunately, I don't have to deal with them that much.....



Seems like there is a lot of that no matter where you go, I had a similar interaction with the girl that helped me use the $%#@ self check out at lowes the other day. Near as I could tell she was doing absolutely nothing before she had to help this technology challenged old fart. Guess that is the reason I don't go there much local lumber yard has the cutest young girl at the sales counter and she is always helpful and smiling. Makes my go better just to walk through the door.

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