# Stabilizing-Empirical Data-Sorta



## Chris S. (Feb 22, 2016)

So this piggy packs of other thread about baking blanks after stabilizing. I had 2 pieces of buckeye burl that pulled out of resin, wrapped in foil and baked right away. The third piece I left almost an hour to drain off exess before baking unwrapped. Today, I took into work and weighed them and had some interesting results. No, this data is not complete as I did not take a before weight and did not sand off the extra resin that came out of blanks that setup on the blank from the ones that I baked wrapped. 

Anyway here is what I found. All data rounded up. Again, not scientific measurements or controlled experiment but interesting none the less.

Blank 1-unstabilized

Size is 6.5"x 2.5" x 2.25"
Total Cubic Inches 36.56
Weight unstabilized 8.4 oz
Wood Weight per cubic inch .23 oz

Blank 2-Stabilized and cooked right away after pulled and wrapped in foil

Size is 6.5" x 2.5" x 2.175"
Total Cubic Inches 35.34
Weight after stabilized 19.8 oz
Weight per cubic inch .56 oz

Bank 3-Same as above

Size is 6.5" x 2.25" x 2.75"
Total Cubic Inches 40.218
Weight after stabilizing 24.8 oz
Weight per cubic inch .62 oz

Blank 4-Stabilized, left to drain for hour, baked unwrapped

Size is 6,675" x 2,5" x 2.25"
Total Cubic Inches 37.55
Weight after stabilizing 24.2 oz
Weight per cubic inch .64 oz

The last one is what really suprised me. By all conventional thought it should be the lightest per cubic inch of the rest, but is the heaviest. While this initial data is interesting I have much more testing to do. Next I am going to get some blanks with same size and similar pre-stabilizing weight, stabilize, follow same baking procedures and then weight and see what results are. While nothing is hard data yet, I just found results very interesting and thought I would share. If further testing shows that baking unwrapped with time to dry before baking yeilds higher retention of resin I will be goign with this method. 

Also, yes I am probably way over analyzing this. However the cost of resin at $90 a gallon all the extra that goes into wood is money not wasted. Also, I find data very interesting and useful. I am the freak where my .0003 runnout on my wood lathe is driving me crazy trying to get down to zero. I won't even talk about my pen mandrel that has .0005 runout.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## Tj King (Feb 22, 2016)

I just started stabilizing and feel your pain here.


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## Chris S. (Feb 22, 2016)

This kind of stuff is going to drive me bonkers.


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## justallan (Feb 22, 2016)

I mean it respectfully but do most folks shoot for anything near .0005 in woodworking and/or machines?
By my way of thinking, I don't feel it would be near possible to do an accurate test on ANY burl or wood with much figure in it for the simple reason that you can't guarantee getting the same density from one piece to the next, therefore absorption would vary. I think if you are really that into it you may try some straight grained blocks getting the most consistent growth rings possible.
I can appreciate wondering about stuff like this, but have learned that in the time I waste overthinking these things, I could have made 4 times as much just getting things done. Granted I stabilize very little.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## rocky1 (Feb 22, 2016)

I wouldn't pull too many hairs out over it yet. There are any number of reasons this could be seen, even if it shouldn't be. You really do need a before weight on all of them, to determine how much weight was gained per cubic inch to arrive at any logical conclusions. Otherwise you're just gonna toast brain cells, and scratch your head bald, and still aren't gonna know nuttin when you get done!

Oh wait... You already figured that part out!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chris S. (Feb 23, 2016)

Oh have no fear everyone, I know this in crazy to worry or wonder about but these things for some reason intrigue my mind. Only if keeping a clean shop intrigued me this much.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## JR Custom Calls (Feb 23, 2016)

Could be a lot of things, and it's not an exact science. There are so many variables. Drying the blanks for at least 24 hours at 220 or more is vital to getting the best stabilization as possible. Any moisture in the blank will take the place of resin that could be there. Also, the tighter the aluminum foil, the less that can bleed out. can't keep it all from coming out, but it can help. Also keeping oven temperature as close to 200 as possible. I think the actual curing temp of cactus juice, and most other resins, is about 195.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TimR (Feb 23, 2016)

@Chris S. , I think it's totally cool you're running a scientific experiment to figure out the optimum method for wasting the least amount of resin and obtaining the ideal quality of the stabilized blank. @justallan is so right about the issue with having a consistent control over the test pieces to make the data truly valid. I think your sample size will need to go up to improve validity...but even on a small scale, small sample size, it's interesting results.

Half a mil runout or less...(0.0005") most people can't grasp or appreciate unless they are machinists. I smile because I suspect you perhaps are an engineer, like me. Regardless, take this in good humor, it's really meant to help others out there who may truly fret over how accurate their runout is, which in most cases is completely inconsequential in working with wood.

I had a discussion once with a good friend who is no longer with us, and he was the head of metrology for the largest university machine shop east of the Mississipi (UNC-Charlotte). He was used to machines having runouts in the lowest of ranges, but laughed whenever people talked about trying to get anything better than a couple mils (0.002") on a wood lathe that uses threaded chucks. The runout induced in the threads will defeat anything you try to drive for absolute perfect runout, which is why precision metal lathes either use tapers or devices like spider gears to zero things out. I do think it's valid to check if you suspect an alignment issue that you have removed all tilt/lift and twist from ways and headstock/tailstock. I've never done anything more on my lathes than to verify the centers come together with tailstock extended and retracted, and to zero out any stresses in the table/ways by judicious shimming at the feet to equalize out any stress twist in the bed. Think alone about the slop in the tailstock being able to twist within the slot, or the slop in the tailstock ram...never able to achieve perfect runout with that scenario.

Looking forward to seeing how further testing on the juice goes...this is something that everyone is likely interested in!


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## Chris S. (Feb 23, 2016)

Okay just realized had to many zeros in run out, is .003 and .005 but still that drives me crazy. Sadly no engineer, son of one, maybe that where some things come in. 

Without a doubt next thing to so is secure some blanks, mill to same size and ensure starting out with same mass before start process. Data will be coming as soon as get my hands on some more resin.

Have no fear I find this topic entertaining and everyone's comments all very welcomed. They keep me laughing, even if I am laughing at myself.

Reactions: Like 1


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## rocky1 (Feb 23, 2016)

Looking at the size of your stock Chris, are you turning calls with this? If so, and the stock is stable enough to drill, you could drill bore of your stock, and cut your corners back, or round the stock out on the lathe, before stabilizing.

1.) You'd eliminate waste soaking up resin.
2.) You'd get better resin penetration on the call body.
3.) You'd reduce times to stabilize and cure.

Might want to play with that in your lab experiement as well.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chris S. (Feb 23, 2016)

Sadly those blanks were not mine but a friends. I am going to be getting some maple burl or using some curly koa blanks I have for my stabilizing experiments I think. Of course if anyone wants to make some donations of wood in the name of science let me know.


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## CWS (Feb 24, 2016)

What kind and size of blanks do you need


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## Chris S. (Feb 24, 2016)

Any size. My goal is to just have all same size, weight and similar makeup to see how things come out. Right now I have 10 curly koa blanks all cut from same piece of wood, same size, and should be same weight so think those are going to work as a good baseline. If you have some pen blanks that think would work I will gladly test them out to see what we get and send back to you when done.


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## CWS (Feb 25, 2016)

Chris S. said:


> Any size. My goal is to just have all same size, weight and similar makeup to see how things come out. Right now I have 10 curly koa blanks all cut from same piece of wood, same size, and should be same weight so think those are going to work as a good baseline. If you have some pen blanks that think would work I will gladly test them out to see what we get and send back to you when done.


I some salted maple and if you want a denser wood I have some honey locust or oak.


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## Chris S. (Feb 25, 2016)

Some maple would work great. Will send you a PM see if we can work out details.


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## Chris S. (Mar 7, 2016)

Just wanted to give a quick thanks to @CWS and @GeorgeS for getting me some wood to stabilize. Got spalted maple, FBE, and maple burl to try out. A few other types I have on hand should make for some interesting data. Now to get everything dry and start stabilizing. Will post up results as I get them. Being out of town next few weekends going to slow things down but hopefully over the week days will get things done.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris S. (Mar 30, 2016)

Well finally back on track to doing some testing. Tonight I put 8 Koa pen blanks in the chamber to start pulling vacuum. After that all 8 are going to be transferred to a container to let soak in catus juice for at least a week to get as much penetration as possible. Cut all the blanks to the same size. They came out to be 4.059 cubic inches in size and weighed from 1.52oz to 1.34 oz. Made two groups, each with a blank which in almost identical in weight. All blanks came from the same piece of wood. What I ended up with is group A has blanks weighing 1.53, 1.43, 1.41, and 1.34 oz and Group B weighing 1.52, 1.43, 1.41, and 1.35 oz. Try as I did to make all blanks the same size they are off by up to a 100th of an inch from each other here and there, I think this is where most of the difference in weight is coming from. After the soak I will pull, wrap and bake group A immediately. Group B will be put on rack to drip dry for hour, then baked to cure. My hypothosis is that by immediately baking with blanks still wet with resin is causing resin to be wicked out of the blank as they begin to cure. Bonus is I will also begin to get an idea of what stabilizes well and what does not. 

Will post up results in a week or so. Working now on cutting up some Buckeye burl to blank sizes for next round of testing. Going to be doing some pen blanks, knife blanks, and maybe some call blank and bottle stopper blank sizes. 

Lastly, had to put a public Thank you and "I'm Sorry" to @CWS and @GeorgeS for providing some great blanks for this testing which I managed to turn into a wonderful pile of charcol.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chris S. (Apr 19, 2016)

Okay been letting koa soak for a long time but it just takes up next to nothing. Buckeye burl been best so far. Did some Chittium Burl too but same as Koa, almost no uptake. Below are results that I have entered into a spreadsheet. The trend right now with the buckeye is that unwrapped has less waste and retains more resin compared to wrapping blanks in foil. One side benefit is that with not wrapping blanks they stay nice a clean without much bleed out to sand off. I also put a few pics below to show the difference. Will put up more results as I get them.


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## Chris S. (Apr 19, 2016)

oh also stabillized some box elder burl which soaked up a lot of resin however I forgot to weight it before putting into chamber so have no results on that. Redwood also has been another wood which seems to be a waste of time to stabilize, even after a 2 week soak had next to no uptake of resin. Think I will need to look to pressure to get resin into some woods.


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