# my latest batch in the chamber



## Treecycle Hardwoods

@fredito and @Karl_99 had inquired about some historical woods in another thread. I happened to be stabilizing some so I decided to share the process. Before I put them in the chamber I checked them all with the civil war pen bushings to be sure they are each big enough. The material is civil war musket stock (walnut). I turned my first batch unstabilized with no problems but wanted to try it this way and see if it improves durability.

@LSCG has some ugly red stuff photo bombing the cool historical wood as well. 

Pix are before and after I put everything into the dry chamber. I have in under vacuum and will keep it that way till tomorrow when I wake up. At that point I will add the juice and snap another pic.

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## Treecycle Hardwoods

Progress so far...... after 10 hours of dry vacuum I added a gallon of juice this morning. It was still pulling air bubbles so I left it go and headed off to work. I will check again when I get home hopefully it looses some of its buoyancy and gets back below the juice line otherwise I will have to open it up put more weight on it a put it thru another vacuum cycle.

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## fredito

Thanks for posting the pics. I am working on trying to be able to stabilze an trying to learn more about it. I do have a couple of questions about your process:
With the dry vac for 10 hours, once you release the vac, won't the voids full back with air? 
Why did you decided to not weight them until they are totally submerged? 
I'm not questioning your process, just trying to understand as much as I can about this


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## Treecycle Hardwoods

fredito said:


> Thanks for posting the pics. I am working on trying to be able to stabilze an trying to learn more about it. I do have a couple of questions about your process:
> With the dry vac for 10 hours, once you release the vac, won't the voids full back with air?
> Why did you decided to not weight them until they are totally submerged?
> I'm not questioning your process, just trying to understand as much as I can about this


@fredito the wood was weighted down but the weight was too light to hold it there. I have a hunk of steel on top of a 1/4" plywood disc on top of the wood but it wasn't enough to hold it down. The dry chambers are built with an extra hose in the top that you stick into the gallon jug of juice. Open the valve on it and it will suck in the juice without getting any air in the chamber. I have a problem on my hands however with this batch because a small portion of the wood is out of the juice. When I release the vacuum for the soak phase of the process that portion of the wood will get air back into it unless it looses bouyancy and sinks down prior to that. If it stays how it is I will have to put more weight on it and put it back thru the vacuum cycle to get the air back out of that area of the wood. I will keep posting pix of how this progresses until I got it done.

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## fredito

Treecycle Hardwoods said:


> @fredito the wood was weighted down but the weight was too light to hold it there. I have a hunk of steel on top of a 1/4" plywood disc on top of the wood but it wasn't enough to hold it down. The dry chambers are built with an extra hose in the top that you stick into the gallon jug of juice. Open the valve on it and it will suck in the juice without getting any air in the chamber. I have a problem on my hands however with this batch because a small portion of the wood is out of the juice. When I release the vacuum for the soak phase of the process that portion of the wood will get air back into it unless it looses bouyancy and sinks down prior to that. If it stays how it is I will have to put more weight on it and put it back thru the vacuum cycle to get the air back out of that area of the wood. I will keep posting pix of how this progresses until I got it done.



Thanks, that makes a lot more sense. I was guessing it was not enough weight but wanted to ask. I haven't seen a dry chamber so that also makes a lot more sense when you explained that. Right now, I am looking at one of Curtis's chambers with a robinair vac. I just need to stop coming on here and buying wood or start selling some stuff to get it all!

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## ripjack13

Why do you dry vac it?


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## Treecycle Hardwoods

ripjack13 said:


> Why do you dry vac it?


It is easier to get the air out of it that way so the pump doesn't work as hard. Pulling the air out thru the juice is harder on the pump from my understanding.

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## Schroedc

I've had that happen before, Occasionally, releasing vac and letting the wood soak up some resin will drop it down and then rerunning a wet vac cycle will get it to where it needs to be. The nice thing, is if you do have to add more resin the second cycle with resin in the chamber doesn't foam anywhere near as much so quicker to get to full vac.

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## Treecycle Hardwoods

Schroedc said:


> I've had that happen before, Occasionally, releasing vac and letting the wood soak up some resin will drop it down and then rerunning a wet vac cycle will get it to where it needs to be. The nice thing, is if you do have to add more resin the second cycle with resin in the chamber doesn't foam anywhere near as much so quicker to get to full vac.


The last batch i did also floated but not out of the water and what you described did happen as it soaked a little they sank back down.


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## TurnTex

I don't mean to be argumentative but pulling a dry vac vs. wet vac does NOT make a difference on how hard the pump works. The pump is creating a lower pressure in the air space in the chamber, be it above the Juice in a wet vac setting or in the entire chamber in a dry vac setting. The pressure deferential is what causes the air to flow from the wood since the surrounding pressure is lower than the internal pressure in the wood. Nature does not like to be out of balance, thus the flow or air from a higher pressure to a lower pressure. The Juice has no effect whatsoever on the process. The only benefit of doing a wet vac is you do not have as much foaming for the first 5 minutes of the operation. Of course this foaming is easily controlled by valves. The downside of doing the wet vac is the exact issues shown here. If this had been wet vac, there would have been enough weight on the wood to begin with and there would not be any floating. Dry vac also complicates the process more than is needed, IMO. The end results will not be any better with one vs. the other but wet vac is simpler. Fill chamber, hold wood down. add resin, vac until bubbles stop. Release vac and allow to soak. Done!

Again, Greg, please don't take this as being argumentative or slamming your method. I have done testing with both methods and just can not see any benefit to dry vac. However, if it works for you, keep doing it!


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## Kevin

I don't know of any quantitative way to measure whether or not dry versus wet is harder on a vacuum pump. But I tend to think it is no harder on the pump either way. I prefer to pull a vacuum and then intro the resin in slowly. But I can't really tell you why I prefer that I just do.


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## Schroedc

One thing I can say regarding dry vs. wet, I've kept an eye on my oil when I drain it in my compressor and pulling a dry vac, and then slowly introducing the resin my oil stays cleaner and I've been getting less residue inside the pump housing. I'm guessing it has to do with less foaming and bubbles causing less of the resin to go airborne in the chamber and get sucked into the pump.....


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## Treecycle Hardwoods

TurnTex said:


> I don't mean to be argumentative but pulling a dry vac vs. wet vac does NOT make a difference on how hard the pump works. The pump is creating a lower pressure in the air space in the chamber, be it above the Juice in a wet vac setting or in the entire chamber in a dry vac setting. The pressure deferential is what causes the air to flow from the wood since the surrounding pressure is lower than the internal pressure in the wood. Nature does not like to be out of balance, thus the flow or air from a higher pressure to a lower pressure. The Juice has no effect whatsoever on the process. The only benefit of doing a wet vac is you do not have as much foaming for the first 5 minutes of the operation. Of course this foaming is easily controlled by valves. The downside of doing the wet vac is the exact issues shown here. If this had been wet vac, there would have been enough weight on the wood to begin with and there would not be any floating. Wet vac also complicates the process more than is needed, IMO. The end results will not be any better with one vs. the other but wet vac is simpler. Fill chamber, hold wood down. add resin, vac until bubbles stop. Release vac and allow to soak. Done!
> 
> Again, Greg, please don't take this as being argumentative or slamming your method. I have done testing with both methods and just can not see any benefit to wet vac. However, if it works for you, keep doing it!



Being a physics major in college I know it takes more power to draw liquid up a longer tube than a short one of the same diameter. It takes much less power to draw air thru the same tube than drawing a liquid up the same tube. Think of it like a straw, the reason the soda or juice you are drinking thru the straw is because you draw a vacuum in the top portion of the straw to get the liquid off the bottom of the straw. The longer the straw the harder you have to suck on it to get the liquid to the top. I don't have the formula memorize for this I would have to look back in my text books from school but trust me it take more power to get the air out of the wood thru the Cactus Juice. The principle would be the same whether it was water, oil, or orange juice in the chamber. Your pump has to work harder to get the air out of the wood. Lets go back to the straw for a min..... When you are getting to the end of your drink and you get air under the liquid you are drinking all of a sudden you have to suck harder (more cfm & more power to generate the additional CFM) to get the rest of the liquid out of the straw. What you have in the straw example is air at the top, liquid in the middle, and air under the liquid. That is the same thing with the vacuum set up. You have air on the top, liquid in the middle and air on the bottom (in the wood) 

I agree that the end result is the same. In this batch I will have to do both methods to get the desired result. I also agree that had I added the juice prior to closing it up and drawing the vacuum I would have known if there was enough weight on the wood prior to sealing it up. I also agree that you can control the foaming with a release valve. I disagree on the power needed to get the job done in the wet vs dry argument. I would add here that if I ran the numbers thru the formula that the power needed to get the air out of the wood will be slightly less dry than wet until the point of no air being left in the wood then they would be equal. I this were displayed in a graph you would see the top portion of the graph very similar where the vacuum approached full vacuum vs power needed to generate the full vacuum. On the lower end it will take much less power to generate the vacuum to start dry vs the power needed to generate the vacuum thru the liquid.

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## Tclem

I majored in women and they are hard to please either way

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## Treecycle Hardwoods

I have thought about this a little more and have another example that will likely be easier to relate to.... Using a garden hose and a bucket full of water will highlight what I am talking about a little better you will also need an 8 or 10' ladder. Keep the bucket of water on the ground with one end of the hose in the water, climb to the top of the ladder and try to suck the water thru it. It would be hard but some may be able to do it. Then let all the water out of the hose and just suck air thru the hose and i bet everyone can do that. Now the hard part put the hose back in the water and suck water part way up and then hold it there while you remove the end of the hose from the water and continue to hold the water in the hose using the vacuum your mouth generates. This is nearly impossible to do but it highlights the different powers needed to pull a vacuum in a dry and wet situation like in a vacuum chamber. Pulling a dry vacuum in a hose is easy and everyone can do it. Pulling a vacuum in a hose partly filled with water and partly filled with air requires much much more power to accomplish. Having a tube partly filled with air and partly filled with liquid is the exact situation you get in a wet vacuum chamber. Having a tube filled with just air is the situation you have in a dry chamber. Both will yield the same end result of a stabilized piece of wood.


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## Kevin

Treecycle Hardwoods said:


> Being a physics major in college I know it takes more power to draw liquid up a longer tube than a short one of the same diameter.



I majored in wiminz too so this is probably all wrong. I pulled thousands of vacuums working for my dad's HVAC business about 60/40 commercial refrigeration/residential. We pulled vacuums on hermitcally sealed systems after we removed the freon made the repairs etc and at times sucked a lot of non condensables through our pumps and they lasted for years because we kept new oil in them.

I doubt these vacuum pumps are working anywhere near as hard pulling from a small chamber dry or wet as I put mine through so maybe it's all moot. But Greg, my non physics brain tells me the vacuum pump isn't pulling the resin as much as the resin is simply following the vacuum. If you're pulling a vacuum on a dry system, your trying to pull the copper ends and walls apart (so to speak) but when you're pulling wet, the liquid is in a sense making it *easier* on the pump IMO if there's any difference at all. I see what you're saying that pulling all that weight up a column takes longer than just pulling air, but I don't think it's pulling the weight at al. I think the liquid is chasing the vacuum.

The only way to be sure is time a vacuum with a dry chamber versus wet. Maybe you did that in college class and that's what you're saying. Either way I don't think it matters to the life of the vacuum as long as clean oil it kept in it, and you don't screw up and choke the vacuum with resin routinely.


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## TurnTex

Remember, you are not pulling anything through a hose other than air. You are creating a lower pressure inside the chamber above the resin. This lower pressure causes the air from the wood to move from it state of higher pressure to the lower pressure state above the liquid. The straw or hose analogy does not work here! With the hose you are dealing with static pressure and such.

I am not a physics major but did take a lot of physics in college and also have friends and mentors who are much smarter than me! I ran this past a nuclear physicist a couple of years ago when dry vacs kinda started popping up and he said it has absolutely no effect for the reason I stated above. You are creating a vacuum in the chamber and air is moving due to lower pressures.

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## TurnTex

Oh yeah, and vacuum does not directly do anything for getting resin into the wood. It simply lowers the air pressure inside the wood and when releasing the vacuum, the resin is sucked back in. You are not moving resin at all, just air.

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## Final Strut

Treecycle Hardwoods said:


> Now the hard part put the hose back in the water and suck water part way up and then hold it there while you remove the end of the hose from the water and continue to hold the water in the hose using the vacuum your mouth generates. *This is nearly impossible to do *but it highlights the different powers needed to pull a vacuum in a dry and wet situation like in a vacuum chamber.



Unless you happen to be "so and so" from the old adage "so and so could suck a golf ball through a garden hose." 

Haha see what I did there with a little garden hose humor.

In all seriousness I am finding this thread very interesting because I have stabilized both ways. The last couple of runs I have done with the wet vac method because it seems as though my valve is aerating the resin as it enters the chamber so pulling a dry vac almost seems like a waste of time for me because I am introducing almost as much air as I am resin.

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## Kevin

Kevin said:


> I don't think it's pulling the weight at al. I think the liquid is chasing the vacuum.





TurnTex said:


> Remember, you are not pulling anything through a hose other than air. You are creating a lower pressure inside the chamber above the resin.



See Greg you should have majored in the ladies too I got it right and didn't have to take all those hard courses.

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## Treecycle Hardwoods

Kevin said:


> I majored in wiminz too so this is probably all wrong. I pulled thousands of vacuums working for my dad's HVAC business about 60/40 commercial refrigeration/residential. We pulled vacuums on hermitcally sealed systems after we removed the freon made the repairs etc and at times sucked a lot of non condensables through our pumps and they lasted for years because we kept new oil in them.
> 
> I doubt these vacuum pumps are working anywhere near as hard pulling from a small chamber dry or wet as I put mine through so maybe it's all moot. But Greg, my non physics brain tells me the vacuum pump isn't pulling the resin as much as the resin is simply following the vacuum. If you're pulling a vacuum on a dry system, your trying to pull the copper ends and walls apart (so to speak) but when you're pulling wet, the liquid is in a sense making it *easier* on the pump IMO if there's any difference at all. I see what you're saying that pulling all that weight up a column takes longer than just pulling air, but I don't think it's pulling the weight at al. I think the liquid is chasing the vacuum.
> 
> The only way to be sure is time a vacuum with a dry chamber versus wet. Maybe you did that in college class and that's what you're saying. Either way I don't think it matters to the life of the vacuum as long as clean oil it kept in it, and you don't screw up and choke the vacuum with resin routinely.


The only point I dispute with Curtis is the power exerted by the pump. Everything else I agree with 100% They way to check the power factor is not timing but rather determining how many Newtons of force it takes to pull dry VS wet. I am not sure how to measure that. For a solid object we always used a spring scale (or a digital one) that had a Newton scale on it rather than pounds or grams. I am sure there is something to measure the force in Newtons for a gas but I have never used it. What you are saying in the portion of your post about the liquid chasing the vacuum is a way of looking at negative forces. One of the Newton's laws of physics is "every action has an opposite and equal reaction" this law of physics applies to positive and negative forces like that which are found in a vacuum.


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## Tclem

Man I'm glad my I'm busy and my chamber from Curtis doesn't get much use and Mel handles all my stuff. My brain is smoking

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## TurnTex

And with the law of physics involved with the vacuum portion, the the vac pump creates a lower pressure inside the chamber above any liquid. The equal opposite reaction is the air inside the wood moves from the wood into the empty portion of the chamber where the pressure was lower. The pump continues to keep the pressure lower inside the chamber and the air keeps moving from the wood to the empty part of the chamber.


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## Final Strut

Tclem said:


> Man I'm glad my I'm busy and my chamber from Curtis doesn't get much use and Mel handles all my stuff. My brain is smoking


All be it a very interesting debate I know the feeling.

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## Treecycle Hardwoods

TurnTex said:


> Remember, you are not pulling anything through a hose other than air. You are creating a lower pressure inside the chamber above the resin. This lower pressure causes the air from the wood to move from it state of higher pressure to the lower pressure state above the liquid. The straw or hose analogy does not work here! With the hose you are dealing with static pressure and such.
> 
> I am not a physics major but did take a lot of physics in college and also have friends and mentors who are much smarter than me! I ran this past a nuclear physicist a couple of years ago when dry vacs kinda started popping up and he said it has absolutely no effect for the reason I stated above. You are creating a vacuum in the chamber and air is moving due to lower pressures.


Your correct Curtis as is your information source. The dispute is not why it happens but rather the force it requires to make it happen. It doesn't happen on it's own it happens because the pump generates force to make it happen. My argument is that it takes a greater force to make it happen thru the liquid rather than just the air. The pressure transfer will happen under a vacuum in either a wet or dry chamber that has no bearing on the process but the amount of force needed to make it happen will change between wet and dry. BTW force=power. Power is commonly rated in HP and force is rated in N.


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## Schroedc

The Egg came first!

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## Treecycle Hardwoods

TurnTex said:


> And with the law of physics involved with the vacuum portion, the the vac pump creates a lower pressure inside the chamber above any liquid. The equal opposite reaction is the air inside the wood moves from the wood into the empty portion of the chamber where the pressure was lower. The pump continues to keep the pressure lower inside the chamber and the air keeps moving from the wood to the empty part of the chamber.


The force exert on the top air pocket is then exerted on the liquid then exerted back to the air in the wood. Because liquid has more mass then air it requires more force to move. If you were to eliminate the liquid from the equation you would remove the force required to move it. Until you exaust all of the air from the wood you are providing an uplift of microscopic proportions on the liquid in the chamber which required force to accomplish. So my theory (because I haven't proven it) is that your pump will have to exert more force on a wet chamber VS a dry chamber until you achieve a perfect vacuum where there is no more air in the wood then the force of both dry and wet would be equal.


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## Schroedc

The air coming out of the wood has to overcome the friction of the liquid it passes through on it's way out of the chamber in a wet vac system and as we all know, friction is a drag man.

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## Treecycle Hardwoods

LOL you guys are getting a kick out of this HUH?!?!?!? Just know that the minute details of how hard the pump works has no major bearing on the stabilization process. Either method will get you the end result you are after.

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## TurnTex

I am the type that likes to have data to back things up so I did some testing over the last 30 minutes or so. One way to determine how much work an electric motor is doing is by measuring amp draw. I got out my amp clamp and did a little testing. Here are the results:

This test was done with a JB Eliminator DV 6-E vacuum pump and a 4" x 10" JuiceProom vacuum chamber. The same exact chamber and hose set up with done for all testing. Here are the amp readings:

5.9-6.0 amps - No hose attached to the pump, open port
6.0-6.1 amps - Hose attached to the pump and chamber with valve open on the chamber, nothing inside
5.6-5.7 amps - Vac chamber at full vacuum, nothing inside
5.8-5.9 amps - Full vac with a piece of buckeye burl 1 3/4" x 2 1/4" x 5 1/2", dry vac, no resin-15 minutes in
5.7-5.8 amps - Full vac with piece of buckeye burl 1 3/4" x 2 1/4" x 5 1/2", wet vac after foaming under control, 15 minutes in

The amp meter was fluctuating between the two readings a little so I gave both.

Take this for what it is worth but to me it says that wet vs dry, there is not much statistical difference in the amount of work the pump has to do. In other words, the pump is not working harder with either one. The pump is actually working the hardest when it is moving a lot free air which is what I stated above.


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## TurnTex

And just in case there is any confusion...this is just a debate among friend! I was curious to see if the information I have been led to believe based on certain educational opportunities was true. I was truely curious so I did some testing. It was not done to prove anyone right or wrong, just to get data.


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## Tclem

TurnTex said:


> I am the type that likes to have data to back things up so I did some testing over the last 30 minutes or so. One way to determine how much work an electric motor is doing is by measuring amp draw. I got out my amp clamp and did a little testing. Here are the results:
> 
> This test was done with a JB Eliminator DV 6-E vacuum pump and a 4" x 10" JuiceProom vacuum chamber. The same exact chamber and hose set up with done for all testing. Here are the amp readings:
> 
> 5.9-6.0 amps - No hose attached to the pump, open port
> 6.0-6.1 amps - Hose attached to the pump and chamber with valve open on the chamber, nothing inside
> 5.6-5.7 amps - Vac chamber at full vacuum, nothing inside
> 5.8-5.9 amps - Full vac with a piece of buckeye burl 1 3/4" x 2 1/4" x 5 1/2", dry vac, no resin-15 minutes in
> 5.7-5.8 amps - Full vac with piece of buckeye burl 1 3/4" x 2 1/4" x 5 1/2", wet vac after foaming under control, 15 minutes in
> 
> The amp meter was fluctuating between the two readings a little so I gave both.
> 
> Take this for what it is worth but to me it says that wet vs dry, there is not much statistical difference in the amount of work the pump has to do. In other words, the pump is not working harder with either one. The pump is actually working the hardest when it is moving a lot free air which is what I stated above.


Will you send me the piece of buckeye burl

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## TurnTex

It actually belongs to a buddy of mine, Pat Ankrom, who makes knife block for a living. He is from Iowa and a month or so ago his shop burned to the ground. He needed somewhere to work to keep income coming in so he called and asked me if he could use my shop. He comes down for a week or so an then goes home for a couple of weeks. Then comes back. He is here now. And for those on FB, no, this is not Tim Kips! The weird thing is, Tim's shop burned down a week after Pat's did!

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## Treecycle Hardwoods

TurnTex said:


> And just in case there is any confusion...this is just a debate among friend! I was curious to see if the information I have been led to believe based on certain educational opportunities was true. I was truely curious so I did some testing. It was not done to prove anyone right or wrong, just to get data.


I agree with Curtis that this is truly a debate among friends!! For us nerdy types it can be fun to debate this sort of topic. My theory was supported by your experiment that under full vac that the everything would be equal although they are close but not exact they do over lap at 5.8 amps. I am a bit surprised that the motor drew more amps pulling an empty hose. I wonder if that is caused because it is pulling max CFM and thus working its hardest at the max CFM level?? That is a strange turn of events for sure.


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## fredito

Very interesting and a lot of info, although I understand about 2% of it.... @Tclem personally I think if you want the buckeye burl you need to test the garden hose theory and put it on YouTube.
I want to try to get started doing this but, it seems almost that wet vac may be the easiest?? If you start with a wet chamber, can you later switch it to a dry by modifying the top with a valve/hose?

Edit: as I was posting about the burl so was Curtis.....now I feel like a jerk!

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## TurnTex

Certainly. A vacuum pump does most of its work when moving a lot of air. You have air resistance you have to overcome. Once down to deep vac, there is very little air being moved. Same with a dust collector. The most efficient your DC motor will be is when all blast gates are closed. When all are open it is having to do a lot more work. The rotor and vanes in an oil filled vacuum pump are basically working in a vacuum when at full vac so it has to do very little work.


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## Treecycle Hardwoods

fredito said:


> Very interesting and a lot of info, although I understand about 2% of it.... @Tclem personally I think if you want the buckeye burl you need to test the garden hose theory and put it on YouTube.
> I want to try to get started doing this but, it seems almost that wet vac may be the easiest?? If you start with a wet chamber, can you later switch it to a dry by modifying the top with a valve/hose?


Don't be to confused by it. you can use a dry chamber either way and I think that either way you will be successful so don't sweat the details that we regurgitated from classes 15 years ago LOL!


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## Treecycle Hardwoods

TurnTex said:


> Certainly. A vacuum pump does most of its work when moving a lot of air. You have air resistance you have to overcome. Once down to deep vac, there is very little air being moved. Same with a dust collector. The most efficient your DC motor will be is when all blast gates are closed. When all are open it is having to do a lot more work. The rotor and vanes in an oil filled vacuum pump are basically working in a vacuum when at full vac so it has to do very little work.


That makes sense. The air has mass all-be-it only a little, it is more than no mass.


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## fredito

Treecycle Hardwoods said:


> Don't be to confused by it. you can use a dry chamber either way and I think that either way you will be successful so don't sweat the details that we regurgitated from classes 15 years ago LOL!


Haha, I just finally mastered not sucking up socks and Legos when I vacuum our house...I think making a vacuum to suck up resin may be out of my league right now.

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## TurnTex

Greg, only 15 years go? Hell, it has been 25 years since I graduated college and 26 years since I had my last formal physics class!

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## Treecycle Hardwoods

fredito said:


> Haha, I just finally mastered not sucking up socks and Legos when I vacuum our house...I think making a vacuum to suck up resin may be out of my league right now.


LOL I don't know how many belts I have replaced on our vacuum at home from either my wife or kids doing that exact thing!! I almost had a doosey a few batches ago. Had both hands full and the foam was almost to the top of my chamber it was close but i got to it in time.


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## Kevin

It's a healthy and respectful debate - this is always good.

I was about to state that the way to check is with an amprobe or inline amp meter when I scrolled down to Curtis' post. Glad you did the tests Curtis. Looks like I got lucky all the way around.



Kevin said:


> .....but when you're pulling wet, the liquid is in a sense making it *easier* on the pump IMO if there's any difference at all.



And you guys are making me feel old how long ago was 1977?


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## Kevin

Treecycle Hardwoods said:


> LOL I don't know how many belts I have replaced on our vacuum at home from either my wife or kids doing that exact thing!!



I finally got my wife to clean the dryer lint filter after each use, when I made her replace the last thermal overload limit switch a few years ago. I'm not joking either lol. I supervised but she did all the work, and got a basic knowledge of how the dryer works and what all the parts do. When someone understands the how and why of a piece of machinery, they usually appreciate how important preventive maintenance is.


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## TurnTex

Kevin said:


> And you guys are making me feel old how long ago was 1977?



Wasn't that the year Columbus came or was it when the Mayflower showed up? I get those two confused! :)

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## Schroedc

Kevin said:


> I finally got my wife to clean the dryer lint filter after each use, when I made her replace the last thermal overload limit switch a few years ago. I'm not joking either lol. I supervised but she did all the work, and got a basic knowledge of how the dryer works and what all the parts do. When someone understands the how and why of a piece of machinery, they usually appreciate how important preventive maintenance is.



I tried that with my wife once, she just kept making the problem worse so I had to take over before it was totally destroyed, Looking back on it, I think she was perfectly capable but screwed it up so I wouldn't make her do it again........

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## Treecycle Hardwoods

Kevin said:


> It's a healthy and respectful debate - this is always good.
> 
> I was about to state that the way to check is with an amprobe or inline amp meter when I scrolled down to Curtis' post. Glad you did the tests Curtis. Looks like I got lucky all the way around.
> 
> 
> 
> And you guys are making me feel old how long ago was 1977?


Well I wouldn't know how long ago that was I wasn't quite around yet

Reactions: Funny 1


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## fredito

Kevin said:


> And you guys are making me feel old how long ago was 1977?


38 years ago...in case you were wondering how I figured it out I took the year I was born and started counting backwards 


Now that Kevin is going to cut me off of FBE, I need to go find a new place to get some...

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kevin

fredito said:


> 38 years ago...in case you were wondering how I figured it out I took the year I was born and started counting backwards
> 
> 
> Now that Kevin is going to cut me off of FBE, I need to go find a new place to get some...

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ripjack13

Holy cow......


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## ripjack13

3 pages in 5 or so hours....

I would have been happy with a answer like, "Because I said so!"....

I'm used to that one...

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Kevin

ripjack13 said:


> Holy cow......



What? May age? let's start talking about Mike then. makes me look like a spring chicken.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## JR Custom Calls

I think the most useful info for me was Curtis basically telling me it's ok to close all my blast gates. Always worried I'd fry my motor doing that, in between tools.


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## Treecycle Hardwoods

Ok now that intermission is over I can post more pix of my batch in progress. The pump has been on for 18 hours half dry and half wet. The pieces sunk below the surface while I was at work today so I think I am gonna shut off the pump and soak for the next 24 hours them bake.

Reactions: Like 2


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## fredito

Kevin said:


>


What the heck! I want the little guy kicking the other guy. Kevin you have been holding out on us!!!


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## Kevin

How did you dry that FBE I now it was wet as heck when it left here not very long ago. I thought it was anyway.


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## Treecycle Hardwoods

As soon as I released the vacuum everything sank like a rock. Unfortunately the pile unstacked and left less than 1" between the juice surface and the wood. Good thing I had extra juice I topped it off and I am out of danger of the wood soaking it up to the point it exposed the wood again.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Treecycle Hardwoods

Kevin said:


> How did you dry that FBE I now it was wet as heck when it left here not very long ago. I thought it was anyway.


I have a good chunk of stuff I got from the same guy I got all that redwood burl from last summer..... but your right this came from you. Yours had been sitting on the floor in my shop so I used it instead of cutting down one of the bigger pieces i had on hand. To dry it I have been baking it at 140-150 for almost a week on and off. I let it set every day for 6 or 8 hours to rest an equalize the MC. I tracked mc at first with a moisture meter then by weight. When it stopped loosing weight it was ready for a good soaking.


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## fredito

Kevin said:


> How did you dry that FBE I now it was wet as heck when it left here not very long ago. I thought it was anyway.


It was still wet when I got it. The rough cut stuff I put some sealer on....may have over done that as my meter says its 50%. I should probably use AS rather then the stuff I have, it's really waxy. The stuff from the trade looked sealed and is in the teens right now. I have some in a milk crate and some with stickers between them for circulation. There was some awesome stuff in there, excited to use it!!

Oops my bad- your sending out to much FBE!!


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## Kevin

What MC do you think it got down to?



Treecycle Hardwoods said:


> but your right this came from you.



Oh I know my stuff when I see it!


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## Kevin

fredito said:


> What the heck! I want the little guy kicking the other guy. Kevin you have been holding out on us!!!



All members have access to the same smilies as me. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click the Help link on the right side. Then click the Smilies link. It shows all the codes. We can't put all those smilies in the text editor but the codes are easy to remember and it's just as quick to type the codes than use the editor.


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## Tclem

I only stabilized if I need something yesterday but should you soak for twice as long as you pulled a vacuum? In this case 36 hours.


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## Treecycle Hardwoods

Kevin said:


> What MC do you think it got down to?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I know my stuff when I see it!


My moisture meter goes down to 6% if the decimal flashes if it is below that. I have 5/16 pins on my meter and the pieces are only 1 1/8 thick. (Xcut) I still wanted to be sure it was dry so I weighed it when the meter read 6% and stopped baking it when it stopped loosing weight.


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## fredito

Kevin said:


> All members have access to the same smilies as me. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click the Help link on the right side. Then click the Smilies link. It shows all the codes. We can't put all those smilies in the text editor but the codes are easy to remember and it's just as quick to type the codes than use the editor.


Kevin, you just opened up a whole new world for me...

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 1


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## Treecycle Hardwoods

Tclem said:


> I only stabilized if I need something yesterday but should you soak for twice as long as you pulled a vacuum? In this case 36 hours.


I have not been informed of that ratio. I have soaked for 2 or 3 days on occasion with no change in the outcome.


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## Treecycle Hardwoods

Lol kevin I reread my post and I didn't answer your question about where I think I got it to. Based on the weight loss stopping I assume it was below 6% for sure and as low as 0-1% mc. I will know real quick once it bakes if I was right or not.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TurnTex

Treecycle Hardwoods said:


> I have not been informed of that ratio. I have soaked for 2 or 3 days on occasion with no change in the outcome.



That info comes from my published directions. I recommend soaking twice as long as you pull vacuum when doing the wet vac method.


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## JR Custom Calls

I forgot about a batch of buckeye pen blanks in my chamber for 5 days. I think they've soaked in all they can lol.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Treecycle Hardwoods

TurnTex said:


> That info comes from my published directions. I recommend soaking twice as long as you pull vacuum when doing the wet vac method.


ZING!!! I admit I have not read thru your material in it's entirety. I will use that method on this batch and see how it goes.


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## TurnTex

Greg,

That was not at all meant as a zinger! Sorry it came across that way.


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## Treecycle Hardwoods

TurnTex said:


> Greg,
> 
> That was not at all meant as a zinger! Sorry it came across that way.


No I didn't take it that way but my sarcastic side kicked in a twisted it that way because I knew I hadn't read thru it all. There is know way you would have known if I had or hadn't to zing me with. My "ZING" was more of me outing myself for not reading all the material published by one of the most knowledgeable people on the subject.

Reactions: Like 1


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## fredito

How did they turn out?


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## Treecycle Hardwoods

fredito said:


> How did they turn out?


They turned out well I turned 5 of them in preparation for the craft show I did yesterday. I will get some pix up later.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ripjack13

Is it later now?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Jdaschel

TurnTex said:


> Remember, you are not pulling anything through a hose other than air. You are creating a lower pressure inside the chamber above the resin. This lower pressure causes the air from the wood to move from it state of higher pressure to the lower pressure state above the liquid. The straw or hose analogy does not work here! With the hose you are dealing with static pressure and such.
> 
> I am not a physics major but did take a lot of physics in college and also have friends and mentors who are much smarter than me! I ran this past a nuclear physicist a couple of years ago when dry vacs kinda started popping up and he said it has absolutely no effect for the reason I stated above. You are creating a vacuum in the chamber and air is moving due to lower pressures.



Since I'm am probably the only person on this site that has a engineering fluid mechanics final in 8 days.....here some more B.S.

Don't forget to account for head loss, and your f coefficient for the type of hose your using. The straw analogy doesn't work because it is steady state conditions and the pump varies with the amount of air it pulling out, so it cannot be considered steady state.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mark Macomber

sorry but comparing pulling air through a garden hose out of water is the same as having a vac leak to open air but if the hose was in a sealed container it would be harder because the air would be gone. and nothing to move.
a/c system is a good example of that. as long as its got a good seal it will pull vac open system no vac can be pulled.
that's from a/c tech training.


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