# Further Burl Adventures



## Johnturner (Apr 11, 2020)

Barterer's

I have enclosed additional pictures concerning my mega burl. The first 2 are bottom views, the last is a side view. I am continuing with turning, it is on a face plate. 
Question: When I am ready to turn it to do the top and empty it out what is the best way to hold it? I think the bottom is too figured to make a proper tenon for a chuck. Other than a chuck what holding options do I have?
As Always, Much Thanks
John

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 1


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## Gdurfey (Apr 11, 2020)

John, that’s a darn good question. Hope someone provides you a good answer instead of my nothing!!


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## Steve in VA (Apr 11, 2020)

Flatten the bottom and use a glue block?

Maybe a jam chuck with glue for additional support?

Please take my advice as a possible suggestions and not sound advice. I'm just throwing out ideas.

Reactions: Like 1


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## William Tanner (Apr 11, 2020)

Let us know how this turns out please.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TimR (Apr 11, 2020)

Well, a vacuum chuck is out of the question.
A glue block would be my go to but I’m having difficulty determining how much meat it can hold onto. If you don’t have enough material to hold on adequately you might need to do some judicious casting on the area where waste block goes. Not so much it will show in finished piece, may be tricky doing a little at a time and damming it with hot glue, if you follow.


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## Mr. Peet (Apr 12, 2020)

What about a large spur on the head with a live center on the tail stock? Or is it to big to do on the lathe over the bed?


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## Nubsnstubs (Apr 12, 2020)

John, in order to make a proper tenon, you're going to lose a lot from the bottom. That's just the way it is. 

When you do make your tenon, it doesn't have to be a 100% round tenon. As long as 80% or more is solid, you can successfully turn this piece. If there are bark inclusions that disappear under the tenon, then it's best not to try it without stabilizing it. 

If you get a satisfactory tenon, reverse the piece, and bring up your live center for support. use it throughout the turning process unless you are going to make a narrow opening hollow form. Turn from the edge towards the center leaving a nub about 1" diameter. Do that until the inside is hollowed like you prefer. Remove the tail stock, and remove the nub. 

I like using dowels to stabilize some of my "iffy" stuff. In this case, if you do have any bark inclusions that go under the tenon, you could drill a hole straight through the inclusion, and insert a glued up dowel or 2. You might have to make your own dowels if you don't have any, but at least the tenon would be secure.. 

To follow up on @TimR suggestion, go ahead and turn the OD and depth of the tenon the size needed. Make sure you leave a good dimple in the center. Remove the piece from the lathe. Tap a nail or small screw into the dimple. Make a wood ring that fits snugly on the tenon. A soft wood or MDF would be my choice. Put it on the tenon, and fill any holes under the ring that may cause leakage. That's only so you don't waste any resin. 
When the resin is cured, remove the nail or screw, and turn off the wood ring. now, you should have a reasonably solid tenon. 

I would still leave a nub in the center until I'm done with the sides and most of the bottom. Turning between centers while hogging out the piece is much safer than having just the chuck holding. .............. Jerry (in Tucson)

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## Johnturner (Apr 12, 2020)

Jerry
The TimR idea and yours seem like a good idea. I might look at that and try it out. I don't understand the idea with the dowels. Could you describe that again. I would like to have it in my arsenal as fallback option.
John


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## Nubsnstubs (Apr 12, 2020)

John, this might help. I've been drilling holes across cracks for about 5-6 years now. Your piece looks like you have bark going under where the tenon might be. Go ahead and make your tenon. You will have a visual instead of guessing. If you happen to make a tenon that is solid, no need to do anything extra.

But, if there is bark under the tenon, it's going to need to be stabilized. Using just epoxy in my opinion is not secure enough to stabilize two pieces of solid wood and bark unless you pressurize it. Dowels on the other hand are solid wood. If you drill a hole into 2 pieces of wood with a gap in it, that wood will be as tough as the dowel. Two dowels will make it even stronger. When you turn the piece, when you actually reach the dowel, you will have a dot showing. If you put it in at an angle, the dots look more like ovals or ellipses. 

I linked a video on drilling dowel holes for bridging cracks. It's only 7 minutes. I have no idea where the second half of it went, but there is enough info to be able to understand why and what I'm doing. 





 .............. Jerry (in Tucson)

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## Wildthings (Apr 12, 2020)

Nubsnstubs said:


> John, this might help. I've been drilling holes across cracks for about 5-6 years now. Your piece looks like you have bark going under where the tenon might be. Go ahead and make your tenon. You will have a visual instead of guessing. If you happen to make a tenon that is solid, no need to do anything extra.
> 
> But, if there is bark under the tenon, it's going to need to be stabilized. Using just epoxy in my opinion is not secure enough to stabilize two pieces of solid wood and bark unless you pressurize it. Dowels on the other hand are solid wood. If you drill a hole into 2 pieces of wood with a gap in it, that wood will be as tough as the dowel. Two dowels will make it even stronger. When you turn the piece, when you actually reach the dowel, you will have a dot showing. If you put it in at an angle, the dots look more like ovals or ellipses.
> 
> ...


AHHHH yes! the age old question!! "What happened to my glue bottle"...…..to be continued!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Nubsnstubs (Apr 13, 2020)

Johnturner said:


> Jerry
> The TimR idea and yours seem like a good idea. I might look at that and try it out. I don't understand the idea with the dowels. Could you describe that again. I would like to have it in my arsenal as fallback option.
> John


John, this is a piece of Palo Verde Crotch piece that had a bark inclusion running the full diameter. I drilled and doweled across the not yet seen gap you see in the first picture. When it was done, I picked out all the bark leaving a gap from 1/4" wide to 1/2" in places.

 

Above is what it pretty much looked like until a dust devil caused my door where I had this above it to slam and it hit the floor and broke. Here it is. One day I'll glue it back together.


 
You can see all kinds of dowel activity in just this one piece. I thought it looked pretty good............. Jerry (in Tucson)

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## Mr. Peet (Apr 13, 2020)

Nubsnstubs said:


> John, this is a piece of Palo Verde Crotch piece that had a bark inclusion running the full diameter. I drilled and doweled across the not yet seen gap you see in the first picture. When it was done, I picked out all the bark leaving a gap from 1/4" wide to 1/2" in places.View attachment 184681
> 
> Above is what it pretty much looked like until a dust devil caused my door where I had this above it to slam and it hit the floor and broke. Here it is. One day I'll glue it back together.
> View attachment 184682
> You can see all kinds of dowel activity in just this one piece. I thought it looked pretty good............. Jerry (in Tucson)



Jerry, maybe glue it with a blue colored epoxy river....

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## Wildthings (Apr 13, 2020)

Nubsnstubs said:


> One day I'll glue it back together.
> ............. Jerry (in Tucson)


When he finds the glue bottle lost in the above video!!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TXMoon (Apr 13, 2020)

Nubsnstubs said:


> John, this is a piece of Palo Verde Crotch piece that had a bark inclusion running the full diameter. I drilled and doweled across the not yet seen gap you see in the first picture. When it was done, I picked out all the bark leaving a gap from 1/4" wide to 1/2" in places.View attachment 184681
> 
> Above is what it pretty much looked like until a dust devil caused my door where I had this above it to slam and it hit the floor and broke. Here it is. One day I'll glue it back together.
> View attachment 184682
> You can see all kinds of dowel activity in just this one piece. I thought it looked pretty good............. Jerry (in Tucson)



That looks pretty cool with the dowels holding the two pieces apart like that. Damn shame it got broke. I hope you can glue it back together.


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## Johnturner (Apr 13, 2020)

Great ideas - I'm am going to the shop and study on it.


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## Mlyle (Apr 18, 2020)

question!!!!

Could bowties in place of the dowels held better...in the fall and crash..Isn't the idea
of a bowtie to prevent separation of opposing pieces....
Seems nowadays bowties are used as enhancement or decoration instead of repair and holding....

JMHO

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## Nubsnstubs (Apr 18, 2020)

My opinion of bowties in wood is, I don't like them. They are over rated and too much work to make the fit. Drilling a hole and inserting a dowel is so much easier, faster, and if placed properly, you get an interesting effect. ............ Jerry (in Tucson)

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Mlyle (Apr 19, 2020)

I know what you mean !


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