# (not) sapele



## chatometry (Dec 19, 2021)

Hello again
I've got this sample sold as "Sapele", but it doesn't look like any Sapele I've ever seen.





The endgrain is not like Sapele in my opinion.
I checked the Hobbit House for every other possibility I thought of, but none is similar. Density is about 41lb/ft3.




Sample thickness just above 1/2".
Note that horizonthal lines are medullary rays, while growth rings are roughly vertical.








About 1/4" from side to side.

Thanks again!
Paolo

Reactions: Like 2


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## vegas urban lumber (Dec 19, 2021)

i think i see a cryptic coded message in the the last image

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Nubsnstubs (Dec 19, 2021)

vegas urban lumber said:


> i think i see a cryptic coded message in the the last image


Trev, I see that too. It states, "I'm not what you think I am.".................. Jerry (in Tucson)

Reactions: Like 1 | Great Post 1 | Funny 4


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## Mr. Peet (Dec 21, 2021)

First glance was saying 'Silky oak', _Grevillea_ species to me....


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## phinds (Dec 21, 2021)

I agree w/ Mark. It certainly isn't sapele. Here are some woods that, along w/ silky oak, have scailform parenchyma and thick rays.

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/_anatomy/diffuse porous/exotics/_exotics.htm#group3a


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## chatometry (Dec 21, 2021)

Thanks Mark and Paul. I will surf the net a bit longer and see if silky oak or any other of the scailform species match the face grain.
The distinctive odor reminds me when I was a kid and I wandered around the boatbuilding yard in a seaside city I used to visit. I can't be 100% sure though.


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## phinds (Dec 21, 2021)

chatometry said:


> Thanks Mark and Paul. I will surf the net a bit longer and see if silky oak or any other of the scailform species match the face grain.


I don't think you have to look any farther than my site


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## chatometry (Jan 3, 2022)

phinds said:


> Here are some woods that, along w/ silky oak, have scailform parenchyma and thick rays.



I don't know... I am no expert, but my mistery wood doesn't look to me like any of those... The face grain looks like silky oak, but the endgrain looks different to me...


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## phinds (Jan 3, 2022)

chatometry said:


> the endgrain looks different to me...


That's just 'cause you have not done the fine sanding that I do. It does look like silky oak.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## chatometry (Jan 3, 2022)

Thanks. I will try fine sanding! 


Paolo


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## phinds (Jan 3, 2022)

Oh, and I should have added that the COLOR on your end grain pic looks absolutely nothing like silky oak, but I ignored it because supposedly it is the end grain of a face grain of a completely different color (and one that DOES look like silky oak). How did you get silky oak end grain to look purple?


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## chatometry (Jan 3, 2022)

phinds said:


> How did you get silky oak end grain to look purple?


Oh it's easy... You just have to buy a very cheap usb microscope like I did  

I will see if I can take a better picture. This microscope is awful with colours :(

Reactions: Funny 2


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## phinds (Jan 3, 2022)

chatometry said:


> Oh it's easy... You just have to buy a very cheap usb microscope like I did
> 
> I will see if I can take a better picture. This microscope is awful with colours :(


Mine in almost as bad sometimes, so I shouldn't have been so surprised.


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## chatometry (Jan 9, 2022)

Some better endgrain pictures (sanded to 1500 grit, taken with my smartphone so colour is a bit more representative) plus face grain pictures. The sample is roughly 6x6x0.6 inches.
Would you still vote for silky oak?

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## phinds (Jan 9, 2022)

chatometry said:


> Would you still vote for silky oak?


Absolutely. Why would you not?


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## chatometry (Jan 9, 2022)

Well, as an observer with no experience I notice differences. But your experience says that these differences are within normal variation one can expect from wood. So thank you! (again)  

Paolo

PS "the wood database" mentions that silky oak is also grown in plantations in Africa. This would justify the fact that it was sold to me as "mogano", a name we generally use for entandophragma ... and khaya ... species.


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## Mr. Peet (Jan 9, 2022)

chatometry said:


> Some better endgrain pictures (sanded to 1500 grit, taken with my smartphone so colour is a bit more representative) plus face grain pictures. The sample is roughly 6x6x0.6 inches.
> Would you still vote for silky oak?
> View attachment 220581View attachment 220582View attachment 220583View attachment 220584View attachment 220585View attachment 220579View attachment 220580


No, I no longer think it is a 'Silky oak', _Grevillea_ . After re-reading your post and seeing your improved photos, I think it is for sure in the Proteaceae family. You mention it being from Africa, and yes _Grevillea _is a plantation tree there, but they also have many native species of _Faurea_. Commercailly, _Faurea macnaughtonii _is readily available and has an end grain that looks to be a better match.

@phinds 
Paul, page 157 in 'Southern African Wood'

Reactions: Informative 1


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## phinds (Jan 9, 2022)

Mr. Peet said:


> No, I no longer think it is a 'Silky oak', _Grevillea_ . After re-reading your post and seeing your improved photos, I think it is for sure in the Proteaceae family. You mention it being from Africa, and yes _Grevillea _is a plantation tree there, but they also have many native species of _Faurea_. Commercailly, _Faurea macnaughtonii _is readily available and has an end grain that looks to be a better match.
> 
> @phinds
> Paul, page 157 in 'Southern African Wood'


I'll be damned. I think you're right. The only time I've seen that wood referenced is when I scanned the book after you gave it to me and of course I promptly forgot it since it's not in my list (that is, not on my site).

The end grain of Paolo's wood is clearly a better match for _Faurea macnaughtonii _than it is for any of the silky oak species in that the rays are closer together relative to the pores compared to silky oak and the parenchyma lines are basically straight rather than having the normal sag of the scalariform parenchyma of silky oak. The face grain of both are pretty much identical, which made it an easy mistake.

Great catch, Mark!

Do you have a sample of _Faurea macnaughtonii _that I could process so as to get it onto my anatomy pages?


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## Mr. Peet (Jan 9, 2022)

phinds said:


> I'll be damned. I think you're right. The only time I've seen that wood referenced is when I scanned the book after you gave it to me and of course I promptly forgot it since it's not in my list (that is, not on my site).
> 
> The end grain of Paolo's wood is clearly a better match for _Faurea macnaughtonii _than it is for any of the silky oak species in that the rays are closer together relative to the pores compared to silky oak and the parenchyma lines are basically straight rather than having the normal sag of the scalariform parenchyma of silky oak. The face grain of both are pretty much identical, which made it an easy mistake.
> 
> ...


No, I don't have any and if I had in the past would have likely passed over it assuming 'Silky oak'. I referenced the book, as a hint since you take better pictures than me, if you want to share it with Paolo in a PM or source in the open or other.

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## chatometry (Jan 10, 2022)

If it helps I can provide samples for both of you!

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## phinds (Jan 10, 2022)

chatometry said:


> If it helps I can provide samples for both of you!


Great offer Paolo but as for me, it's not one of the woods on my list so not really worth the cost of shipping a sample from Italy, but thank you anyway. Mark collects EVERYTHING so he may feel differently.


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## Mr. Peet (Jan 10, 2022)

Sadly, I'd have to pass being we do not know the source and are only reasonably comfortable with the genus. I do lack having anything from that genus, but also have trouble justifying the shipping cost.

If you follow up with the wood's provider and identify the retail supply source, and verify that they carry 'Terblanz', then YES. If they carry 'Transvaal beech', then it is _Faurea saligna_ and still interested.

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## chatometry (Jan 10, 2022)

Mr. Peet said:


> If you follow up with the wood's provider


I can try, but I don't expect great results.
However, I will set aside some pieces in case I will have anything else I can ship to you in the future!
Paolo


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## Mr. Peet (Jan 10, 2022)

chatometry said:


> I can try, but I don't expect great results.
> However, I will set aside some pieces in case I will have anything else I can ship to you in the future!
> Paolo


Sounds good. What density do you calculate?_ F. macnaughtonii_ runs 930kg/m3 with a range of (860-980)._ F. saligna_ runs 740kg/m3 with a range of (690-780).


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## chatometry (Jan 10, 2022)

I measured 660kg/m3


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## Mr. Peet (Jan 10, 2022)

chatometry said:


> I measured 660kg/m3


Well, that fails to match the two choices from South Africa. We shall see if you have other success with suppliers.


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## chatometry (Feb 1, 2022)

Mr. Peet said:


> We shall see if you have other success with suppliers.


Phoned the seller. They bought it long ago from a supplier who bought from another supplier and so on... Plus they insist in saying it's sapele... (which obviously isn't) -_-

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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