# Pepper mill help



## LemonadeJay (Sep 10, 2014)

I am trying to turn pepper mills for the 2nd time. I am having trouble with "wiggle" at the end while drilling them out. Any advice for keeping the blank steady while drilling?

Thanks,
Jay


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## kweinert (Sep 11, 2014)

Do you drill them out before or after you've shaped the outside? Are we talking about tall mills (10 inches or more)?

For short mills I usually drill them on the drill press instead of the lathe. I understand what you're talking about on the longer ones - perhaps a steadyrest would help?


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## LemonadeJay (Sep 11, 2014)

The drill press is a great idea. I am going to try that tonight. 
The instructions I downloaded said to get the blank round, then drill out, then part the top from the bottom, then get the final shape.


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## Kevin (Sep 11, 2014)

I have just the opposite results using a drill press vs the lathe. My mills always turn out better when I drill them on the lathe. Jay, if you don't have a quality, heavy duty extension specifically made for forstner bits, but are using a construction grade extension that might be part of the problem. You also need to use high quality (and sharp!) forstner bits. What kind of extension are you using? 

We need to hear from Doc and Jim Smith and Vern they are the resident PM guru's (and I know we have others as well). 

@The PenSmith 
@DKMD 
@Vern Tator


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## LemonadeJay (Sep 11, 2014)

I don't know the brand of extension I bought. I think I ordered it from Woodcraft. It could definitely have some movement. I wonder if using a shorter extension first would help. The blank being held by a tenon seems to move too once the pressure from the forstner bit starts too.

I thnk making pepper mills is something I could really get into but having this issue is very frustrating. My father was a metal machinist for 50 years making submarine, airplane and helicopter parts that had to be within 1/100 to 1/1000 of an inch of specs. When I show him the bowls I make he loves it. I showed him the trouble I was having with the mill and he loves it but he told me if he were doing it out of metal he would approach it totally differently than the instructions I have.

He said he would start with the smallest hole and drill that out first then grab that blank inside the hole with a chuck.

I asked him if using a drill press was cheating and he said as long as you get it to the specs you need anything goes.


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## Kevin (Sep 11, 2014)

the reason you don't start with the smallest hole in a peppermill is because it goes all the way through (if it is a shaft grind). A forstner bit needs to have some meat for its point so it can stay centered. If you remove that meat (with the smaller bit but bigger than the forstner bit point) the the forstner bit is prone to wobble. The larger holes do not go all the way through a mill, so when you drill the largest hole first and work down, the smaller bits will self-center in the indentation left by the preceding point.

Your dad was using the most precise, heavy duty machines America could produce at the time. He could drill (mill) holes within holes without the need for centering and no worry of wobble. Metal spinning is a whole other ball of was than wood.

You asked about extension length - always use the shortest extension that will do the job.


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## LemonadeJay (Sep 11, 2014)

Sorry to get off topic but I used to love the stories my father would tell me about when they were putting some metal pieces together, the fit was so precise that they would "super freeze" the metal to get it just a little smaller, put the pieces together and when the frozen piece warmed up, it was a perfect fit.

He retired 3 years ago. He would tell me they could not find people to work in the shops any more. He never understood why because they were solid jobs. He said they would get young people in and start to train them and they just didn't want to do the work. They had the most success with getting workers that immigrated in from other countries, that were highly skilled and willing to do good work and work hard.


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## Kevin (Sep 11, 2014)

LemonadeJay said:


> Sorry to get off topic but I used to love the stories my father would tell me about when they were putting some metal pieces together, the fit was so precise that they would "super freeze" the metal to get it just a little smaller, put the pieces together and when the frozen piece warmed up, it was a perfect fit.
> 
> He retired 3 years ago. He would tell me they could not find people to work in the shops any more. He never understood why because they were solid jobs. He said they would get young people in and start to train them and they just didn't want to do the work. They had the most success with getting workers that immigrated in from other countries, that were highly skilled and willing to do good work and work hard.



Off topic is okay unless the OP says it's not, and you are the OP so I bet you're safe. 

That's a sad testament to today's generation though. A metal spinner is an important job. We probably won't have any left hardly once our dad's generation is completely gone.


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## kweinert (Sep 11, 2014)

Just to be clear - I only use the drill press for those short mills, about 6" total.

I may change my mind when I get the new lathe and/or the bearings replaced in my current lathe.

Another question for you - what kind of a chuck do you have? Well, the jaws really. If it's one with the grooves (that is, not a dovetail jaw) then you have to be really careful about putting the body of your piece in it. I'd have to find it again but there's a nice video out there about using jaws like that (which is what I did for a long time) as they are more difficult to get an accurate seat when you tighten them up.

Also ensure that your tenon is absolutely flat and your blank is firmly seated against the jaws when you tighten them up. It doesn't take much of being off at the jaw end to see a lot of movement at the other end, especially if you're 8 or 9 inches away.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DKMD (Sep 11, 2014)

I appreciate Kevin's vote of confidence, but I'm far from an expert on mills... The last few I sent out for trades show that pretty clearly.

With that said, I've only drilled on the lathe. Sharp bits and stiff extensions have worked best for me. I drill without an extension as deep as I can then add the shortest extension for the next section. For really tall mills, I drill from both ends... There's usually a little mismatch in the holes somewhere inside, but that doesn't matter with the shaftless mechanism I've been using.

I only have dovetail jaws for my chucks, and I haven't had any troubles with gripping the blanks.


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## Kevin (Sep 11, 2014)

DKMD said:


> but I'm far from an expert on mills... The last few I sent out for trades show that pretty clearly.



Well we wouldn't know now would we - you never let us see them lol. But I can hardly believe they didn't turn out good or you wouldn't have sent them out. You forget I have some of your work. your work is exquisite.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Sprung (Sep 11, 2014)

Kevin said:


> Well we wouldn't know now would we - you never let us see them lol. But I can hardly believe they didn't turn out good or you wouldn't have sent them out. You forget I have some of your work. your work is exquisite.



I'll try to remember to post a pic of the one he made for my wife and I if he doesn't. It's another one of his works of art!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## DKMD (Sep 11, 2014)

Kevin said:


> Well we wouldn't know now would we - you never let us see them lol. But I can hardly believe they didn't turn out good or you wouldn't have sent them out. You forget I have some of your work. your work is exquisite.



They look OK, but for at least two of the recipients, the mill top is slipping instead of driving the mechanism.... I should have filled and tested them before mailing them. It should be an easy fix, but I'm pissed at myself that I sent out something that doesn't work the way it should... Won't happen again.

The only picture I took was this one...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sprung (Sep 11, 2014)

DKMD said:


> They look OK, but for at least two of the recipients, the mill top is slipping instead of driving the mechanism.... I should have filled and tested them before mailing them. It should be an easy fix, but I'm pissed at myself that I sent out something that doesn't work the way it should... Won't happen again.



First off, ours looks better than OK! The other day it was sitting next to the largest of the three curly bradford pear nested bowls you made (the bowl had fresh tomatoes from our garden in it) and they looked like they belonged together. Second, don't worry about the mechanism - shouldn't take much to get it fixed and going! Katy and I are nothing but happy with the mill you sent us!

(I'll post a pic of it whenever I remember to.)

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Kevin (Sep 11, 2014)

Doc I have given away mills with the same mechanism you use (based on what you said in another of your threads). I always give away a bag of my favorite peppercorns with the mills but I don't fill them and test them either. That's a good idea. We can have a build discussion in a new thread and figure this out but I have not received any negative feedback on the mechs thus far. I will contact some of the friends/family I have given them to and ask if they're having trouble - thanks for the heads up.


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## The PenSmith (Sep 11, 2014)

Hi Guys, drilling is an art, I have made thousands of mills and with no 'wobble'. The newer extensions that Woodcraft sells will indeed introduce wobble, they are just two thin. Before a friend made me an extension from 1/2" round stock I solved it by drilling from both ends. Lee Valley sells a saw tooth bit that is long enough to reach over halfway thru the body of a 10" mill. If you turn tenons on both ends of the bank you can reverse the blank after you drill the first set of holes ( 1 5/8" followed by 1 1/16") you will be surprised how well they meet in the middle. If you have any mis alinement Woodcraft sells a sanding drum, that I use on an extension which is a great way to clean out the inside of a mill body.
Sanding Drum, 1" x 3" x 1/4" Item #06P21
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=63566&cat=1,180,42240,63566 (drill bit link)

If you are ever in the Tampa Bay area please PM me, all turners are welcome in my shop, sorry, I'm told I have a studio !

I tried the drill press and when the bit got into a bind I lost control of the blank, I will never try that again.

Reactions: Thank You! 2 | Informative 1


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## The PenSmith (Sep 11, 2014)

For kits, only purchase the 'deluxe' kits that are sold by Packard Woodworks, Craft Supplies and others. They are made in the US and very high quality. I know this first hand, I've been to the factory in Pa. Once we slow down with shows I may start offer kits in packs of 10 a reduced prices to individuals. If any of you are in woodturning clubs PM me for bulk prices, I sell a lot to local clubs.

Reactions: Like 2 | Thank You! 1


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## Vern Tator (Oct 11, 2014)

Been asleep at the switch, haven't been here lately, but I do know peppermills. If you have wobble in boring it may start with how you hold the wood to be bored. I do all of my boring on my lathe. I hold the piece in a 4 jaw chuck. There are two main areas of error in prepping wood and using a chuck.
First is not making a sound spigot to grab. Not only must it have the correct dovetail but the surface that the jaws rest on must be flat and contact the 
jaws completely. That face is more important than the height of the spigot. The other place where people screw up is tightening the jaws. This is done by tightening in one hole, revolving the chuck 1/2 turn and tightening the next hole and continuing this until there is no more give. Just reefing on one hole will not work. If the engineers wanted you to use just one hole they would not have put 2 point in to tighten the chuck. That should solve some of the wobble.
Now boring. I use the Colt maxi cut bits. They are not cheap, but they are not junk either you get what you pay for. They sell extension and a #2 morse taper adapter to put in the tailstock. I have bored with cheap bits you get what you get! I have made my own extension for cheap bits, a 3/8 x 2 pipe nipple with 2 set screws tapped into each end. The extension was a piece of 3/8 drill rod with flats ground to keep it from spinning. It did a fine job, wish I could find it since it was a Rube Goldberg that worked pretty well. I like the colt because it is faster, the cam action allows bits to be changed much faster. Speed is important to me as I turn over 100 pepper mills a year.
Hope this helps.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Graybeard (Oct 11, 2014)

An idea: http://www.carterproducts.com/lathe-parts-accessories/strongbore

Graybeard


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## Mike Jones (Oct 12, 2014)

Another "little thing".....if your forstner bit wobbles even a tiny amount when starting the hole, it will only get worse, so, it is most important to get a good start. I make a "dimple" or small cone shaped starter hole with a skew or similar. A little thing that can make a big difference.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## barry richardson (Oct 12, 2014)

Vern Tator said:


> Been asleep at the switch, haven't been here lately, but I do know peppermills. If you have wobble in boring it may start with how you hold the wood to be bored. I do all of my boring on my lathe. I hold the piece in a 4 jaw chuck. There are two main areas of error in prepping wood and using a chuck.
> First is not making a sound spigot to grab. Not only must it have the correct dovetail but the surface that the jaws rest on must be flat and contact the
> jaws completely. That face is more important than the height of the spigot. The other place where people screw up is tightening the jaws. This is done by tightening in one hole, revolving the chuck 1/2 turn and tightening the next hole and continuing this until there is no more give. Just reefing on one hole will not work. If the engineers wanted you to use just one hole they would not have put 2 point in to tighten the chuck. That should solve some of the wobble.
> Now boring. I use the Colt maxi cut bits. They are not cheap, but they are not junk either you get what you pay for. They sell extension and a #2 morse taper adapter to put in the tailstock. I have bored with cheap bits you get what you get! I have made my own extension for cheap bits, a 3/8 x 2 pipe nipple with 2 set screws tapped into each end. The extension was a piece of 3/8 drill rod with flats ground to keep it from spinning. It did a fine job, wish I could find it since it was a Rube Goldberg that worked pretty well. I like the colt because it is faster, the cam action allows bits to be changed much faster. Speed is important to me as I turn over 100 pepper mills a year.
> Hope this helps.


Thanks for that input Vern, I have a couple of colt bits, and plan to get the 2 for peppermills soon, and the extension. I really like the bits, and glad to hear the extension is a good set-up...


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## Alan Sweet (Oct 12, 2014)

I use the Colt Forstner bits and extension. And until I got them I was experiencing some of the wabble issues and inconsistent whole size. They come in the following sizes;
15/16", 1-1/16", 1-1/2", 1-9/16" and 1-3/4" forstner drill bits. With their extension, the only wabble you get is from your tail stock. 

I use them for Pepper mills and vases.

Reactions: Like 1


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## barry richardson (Oct 12, 2014)

Good to hear, I have one that is 2 1/2 for boring out hollow forms. Since that one is bigger than the diameter of my drill chuck, I can bore as deep as my tail stock will extend, but I do want to get the extentsion for smaller bits...


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