# Brazilian wood?



## Flacer22 (Apr 5, 2020)

My supplier shipped me a container of slabs in a skid made from something in Brazil. His guys make crates all the time from whatever they can get hands on so not exactly sure what it is. Thinking it might be goncalo alves or more likely canarywood. Anyone else wanna gimie there thoughts?!?! Pics are end grain and face freshly sanded and wet with alcohol

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## DKMD (Apr 5, 2020)

Hmm... I don’t think of either of those woods having the heavy pores in the facegrain.

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## phinds (Apr 6, 2020)

Not even remotely like goncalo alves. Don't see how you got that idea.

Canary doesn't have big enough pores to show that kind of porosity in the face grain.

End grain makes it look a little like a Eucalypt but that's a swag at this point. Can you clear up the end grain better? Also, show the wood as it is. Do NOT wet it with anything.

What's the density?

EDIT: after a second look, I take back it looking like a Eucalypt.


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## barry richardson (Apr 6, 2020)

It looks very much like a few boards I brought back from Puerto Rico years ago, the local name for it there was Brazillian Oak, which could be anything lol


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## Flacer22 (Apr 6, 2020)

phinds said:


> Not even remotely like goncalo alves. Don't see how you got that idea.
> 
> Canary doesn't have big enough pores to show that kind of porosity in the face grain.
> 
> ...



I can get some more pics of larger stuff later I have well 2 whole large shipping crates mostly made of this. The slabs I got we're all Alves and canarywood and my guy said alot of times they make crates from left overs from making the slabs so hence why I thought possibly those 2 species. It's dense similar to oak maybe not super dense like alot alot of exotics but not like walnut or cherry either.


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## barry richardson (Apr 6, 2020)

Flacer22 said:


> I can get some more pics of larger stuff later I have well 2 whole large shipping crates mostly made of this. The slabs I got we're all Alves and canarywood and my guy said alot of times they make crates from left overs from making the slabs so hence why I thought possibly those 2 species. It's dense similar to oak maybe not super dense like alot alot of exotics but not like walnut or cherry either.


What are you doing with the slabs? tables? Just curious....


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## Flacer22 (Apr 6, 2020)

barry richardson said:


> What are you doing with the slabs? tables? Just curious....



Yes table top slabs. 

Here are large un wet pics of this stuff as well. Pic I post is end grain cleaned up and sanded want a fresh cut in sanded pic??

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## phinds (Apr 6, 2020)

Flacer22 said:


> want a fresh cut in sanded pic??
> View attachment 184226


If you are asking if I want a fresh cut end grain pic, then as I already stated, I need something a lot better cleaned up.

The colors of your first two pics directly above bear zero relation to the 3rd pic. Are they the same wood? If they are, are either of the pics anywhere near the actual color of the wood?


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## Mr. Peet (Apr 6, 2020)

phinds said:


> If you are asking if I want a fresh cut end grain pic, then as I already stated, I need something a lot better cleaned up.
> 
> The colors of your first two pics directly above bear zero relation to the 3rd pic. Are they the same wood? If they are, are either of the pics anywhere near the actual color of the wood?



I read it as the red colored wood shown just above is one of the slabs he had bought to make a table top. The third bland wood looks to match the first two pictures from the start of the thread...


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## Mr. Peet (Apr 6, 2020)

Flacer22 said:


> I can get some more pics of larger stuff later I have well 2 whole large shipping crates mostly made of this. The slabs I got we're all Alves and canarywood and my guy said alot of times they make crates from left overs from making the slabs so hence why I thought possibly those 2 species. It's dense similar to oak maybe not super dense like alot alot of exotics but not like walnut or cherry either.



Andy,

Your statement about density is similar to saying it is wood. Please cut a small section, show us a picture of the piece with a tape measure to show proportion. Give us the dimensions and weight of the piece to figure up volume and density. Clean up the end grain some more for Paul.

I see a coarse wood with silicates or another reflective agent. The pore directions shift greatly in the face grain photo in post #1, so interlocking grain or grain reversing possible.

@barry richardson
Barry,
Brazilian oak often refers to Tauari, _Couratari guianensis_, and Amendoim, _Pterogyne nitens._ I see some resemblance to Tauari but await more information.

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## phinds (Apr 6, 2020)

Mr. Peet said:


> Brazilian oak often refers to Tauari, _Couratari guianensis_, and Amendoim, _Pterogyne nitens._


Interesting, Mark. I don't have any of those and I have _Couratari guianensis_ as just tauari, not Brazilian oak, but I know my database has omissions and errors.

On the other hand, I have Brazilian oak as 

Amburana cearensis (cumaru)

Casuarina glauca (sheoak)

Casuarina lepidophloia (black oak and Brazilian oak)


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## phinds (Apr 6, 2020)

Mr. Peet said:


> I read it as the red colored wood shown just above is one of the slabs he had bought to make a table top. The third bland wood looks to match the first two pictures from the start of the thread...


Yeah, you're probably right, just wish he had been specific.


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## Flacer22 (Apr 6, 2020)

phinds said:


> If you are asking if I want a fresh cut end grain pic, then as I already stated, I need something a lot better cleaned up.
> 
> The colors of your first two pics directly above bear zero relation to the 3rd pic. Are they the same wood? If they are, are either of the pics anywhere near the actual color of the wood?


 

I'm asking what exactly you mean by cleaned up end pic as first pic I posted was a fresh cut and sanded pic of the end grain I'm not sure what else I can do for a cleaner pic??? 

My next post was meant for berry and was pics of the slabs I imported. I tossed the pic of this mystery wood you ask for on bottom and noted that sorry I thought I did make that clear.

Ultimately I'm not 100% sure what the "ture" aspect of this wood are as I have 2 entire large 4 foot by 5 foot by 13foot long boxes made of wood and all the wood isn't totally identical. There might be mutiple species making these box's. However Majority of it looks exactly like pics I've posted. 

I'll try and get some better pics tomorrow and weights of the 4x4x7/8 pieces I have cut for density. If I get time I'll try and run one piece though the planer to clean up face grain more and take pic of that too.

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## phinds (Apr 6, 2020)

Flacer22 said:


> I'm asking what exactly you mean by cleaned up end pic as first pic I posted was a fresh cut and sanded pic of the end grain I'm not sure what else I can do for a cleaner pic???


A section of your image, shown full scale, a section of one of mine shown at HALF scale, and the same one of mine shown at full scale. 

Since I doubt if you are going to get yours cleaned up enough, you can send me a sample and I'll process it.


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## Flacer22 (Apr 7, 2020)

4 1/16x 4 1/16x 7/8 8.1 ounces.

Pretty sure blank looks good think my camara isn't capable of pic of that quality that close up. The bigger piece is fresh planned

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## phinds (Apr 7, 2020)

Ah, MUCH better. Thank you. I'm behind on a couple of things so will get back to it later.


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## phinds (Apr 7, 2020)

@Flacer22 that density works out to 61lbs/cuft, VERY heavy. A hair more and it would sink in water. Much heavier than oak. Does that seem right to you?


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## Flacer22 (Apr 7, 2020)

Was busy today just got a chance to come up and check this out. First glance no way does that seem right as again seems more like white oak. But numbers dont lie so. I took MC readings on them and came up with a 14% avg and weighed about 20 different pieces from 3 different boards of this stuff all the same size and came up with a avg of around 7.9 ounces so still pretty close but at 14% MC. I dug around for boards I had up here in shop dry and similar sized and couldn't find any white oak but found ones almost identical size of Osage and walnut the mystery wood is definitely not heavier or as heavy as Osage and more heavy than walnut I know that's not sientfic but best I had for direct comparison.


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## phinds (Apr 7, 2020)

Osage tops at about 50lbs/cuft.

How about you get a bigger piece and weigh it?


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## Mr. Peet (Apr 8, 2020)

phinds said:


> Osage tops at about 50lbs/cuft.
> 
> How about you get a bigger piece and weigh it?



Question, moisture % being a percent, can it be used as such?

have a wood 60.5 lbs. per foot cubed @ 14% moisture. Can we use proportions?

61/14 = x/12 x = 52.28 implying, would the wood weigh 52 pounds per cubic foot when dried to 12%?


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## phinds (Apr 8, 2020)

Mr. Peet said:


> Question, moisture % being a percent, can it be used as such?
> 
> have a wood 60.5 lbs. per foot cubed @ 14% moisture. Can we use proportions?
> 
> 61/14 = x/12 x = 52.28 implying, would the wood weigh 52 pounds per cubic foot when dried to 12%?


I haven't studied that Mark but I do think the relationship is close to linear, so yeah, a 5% drop in moisture, for example, should drop the weight to 95% of what it was before drying.


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## Mr. Peet (Apr 8, 2020)

phinds said:


> I haven't studied that Mark but I do think the relationship is close to linear, so yeah, a 5% drop in moisture, for example, should drop the weight to 95% of what it was before drying.



Another issue is that some densities are given at 12% moisture and others are defined as oven dry. Often the number is placed in literature without defining baseline as oven dry or 12%.


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## phinds (Apr 8, 2020)

Mr. Peet said:


> Another issue is that some densities are given at 12% moisture and others are defined as oven dry. Often the number is placed in literature without defining baseline as oven dry or 12%.


Which is why I gave up making any serious study of the entire moisture issue. I think there is too much confusion and it's not a well defined process. I think the only reliable way to do it is by doing what you do which is to weight the wood, regardless of how wet/dry it is, and then weigh it again in a few months. That way you know exactly what % of the weight was lost and unless you've got some ravenous bugs working on it, water loss is the only way the weight reduces, but of course that does you no good in knowing what exactly is going to happen BEFORE it happens.

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## Mr. Peet (Apr 9, 2020)

Has a lot of visual similarities to Afzalia, just on the wrong continent...


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## Flacer22 (Apr 10, 2020)

phinds said:


> Osage tops at about 50lbs/cuft.
> 
> How about you get a bigger piece and weigh it?


I tried my scales arnt very big haha. But I played around with it more and it does seem to be pretty dense I cut up some cubes or different species and weighed them all exactly same size and when I did this the mystery wood did seem to be heavier than most all. So I'm not sure why it seems lighter as a entire board but again numbers don't lie so I guess it's a perspective thing but it's definitely very dense wood.


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## Flacer22 (Apr 10, 2020)

Also if UD like a sample I'll mail you one maybe that will help 



Flacer22 said:


> I tried my scales arnt very big haha. But I played around with it more and it does seem to be pretty dense I cut up some cubes or different species and weighed them all exactly same size and when I did this the mystery wood did seem to be heavier than most all. So I'm not sure why it seems lighter as a entire board but again numbers don't lie so I guess it's a perspective thing but it's definitely very dense wood.


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## phinds (Apr 10, 2020)

Flacer22 said:


> Also if UD like a sample I'll mail you one maybe that will help


Yes, sending me a piece to process would be best. I'll PM you.

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## phinds (Apr 16, 2020)

Andy, I just got the pieces. I'll try to process them by the end of this weekend

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## phinds (May 3, 2020)

phinds said:


> Andy, I just got the pieces. I'll try to process them by the end of this weekend


Jeez, I really dropped the ball on this one. "This weekend" is long come and gone. OK, I've moved them from the back burner to the front of the stove.


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## Mr. Peet (May 3, 2020)

phinds said:


> Jeez, I really dropped the ball on this one. "This weekend" is long come and gone. OK, I've moved them from the back burner to the front of the stove.



You're retired, everyday is a weekend....ya, that's it.


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## phinds (May 3, 2020)

Mr. Peet said:


> You're retired, everyday is a weekend....ya, that's it.


Well, that and I'm lazy as as all get-out.

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## phinds (May 4, 2020)

Andy (@Flacer22) since the face grain didn't look particularly familiar I went through my 2,000+ diffuse porous end grain pics looking for a match and here's what I found. The listed woods are the only ones that could possibly be matches based on the end grain

albizia, fragrant / Albizia lebbekoides --- but color and face grain are not good matches

*COULD BE: Guanacaste blanco / Albizia caribaea --- end grain match is good, color and face grain are both good matches and it apparently grows in most of South America, BUT ... the tree does not have a regular bole and is not a lumber tree and the wood is not particularly strong, so it seems very unlikely to be a pallet wood. Still, it's the only decent match I can find and it's possible that in some areas it grows straight enough and large enough (which the species could) to be a pallet wood.*

lebbeck / Albizia lebbeck --- face grain match is excellent but the color match is impossible

sabicu / Lysiloma sabicu --- color match is only so-so, face grain match is not good, end grain match is only so-so. Also, this is an EXTREMELY rare wood so highly unlikely

brazil nut wood / Bertholletia excelsa --- face grain match is good but color match is not good and the end grain match itself is only so-so

kempas / Koompassia excelsa --- color rules this one out immediately

niangon / Tarrietia utilis --- color and density are way off and this is an African wood

SO ... I think there's a good chance that the apparent anatomical match with it's Guanacaste blanco / Albizia caribaea is a coincidence and that it's a wood that I don't have. It could be that wood but see the caveats noted above.

That's the best I can do.


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## Mr. Peet (May 4, 2020)

phinds said:


> Well, that and I'm lazy as as all get-out.



Hey, since you have had the wood, several weeks have passed since we had our first density estimate at 61 pounds per cubic. Have you reworked it to see if there was any big change?


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## phinds (May 4, 2020)

Mr. Peet said:


> Hey, since you have had the wood, several weeks have passed since we had our first density estimate at 61 pounds per cubic. Have you reworked it to see if there was any big change?


Ah, yeah. Thanks for the reminder. Meant to put it in the last post. 54lbs/cuft

Can't find dentsity for Albizia caribaea but I think it's not likely to be that heavy.

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## Flacer22 (May 4, 2020)

Mr. Peet said:


> You're retired, everyday is a weekend....ya, that's it.


Haha I knew he would get to it in due time


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## Flacer22 (May 4, 2020)

Well definitely appreciate you taking a look at it. Seems pretty stout stuff guess will find out something to do with it all haha wonder what it will look like finished now



phinds said:


> Andy (@Flacer22) since the face grain didn't look particularly familiar I went through my 2,000+ diffuse porous end grain pics looking for a match and here's what I found. The listed woods are the only ones that could possibly be matches based on the end grain
> 
> albizia, fragrant / Albizia lebbekoides --- but color and face grain are not good matches
> 
> ...


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