# Corona virus/Covid 19 talk



## Spinartist

Scientist buddy of mine sent me this site.
Almost getting scary

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6


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## Nature Man

Will be a great reference source once it's populated with info. Chuck


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## Mike1950

Been watching that one for a few days. average age in Italy is almost 48- 37 here. Public transportation and are denser populated- at least compared to where I live. Washington is sorta ground zero- most 55 deaths have been in state run nursing home. 7 million Plus in state...


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## whitewaterjay

Pretty scary numbers, praying for a miracle in the way they can treat patients with this virus!

Reactions: Way Cool 1


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## Wildthings

My brother sent me this site about coronavirus statistics

coronavirus statistics


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## Alan Sweet

Wuhan virus (aka COVID-19) 8727 deaths, 214,000 cases. Mortality rate =0.04. (4%)
Flu season mortality 2017-2018: 10,8%

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Schroedc

Alan Sweet said:


> Wuhan virus (aka COVID-19) 8727 deaths, 214,000 cases. Mortality rate =0.04. (4%)
> Flu season mortality 2017-2018: 10,8%



Source for that number on the Flu Mortality? That seems way off.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Alan Sweet

The Wuhan virus numbers come the site given in post.
8727 / 214,000 =0.04... ~4%
Flu season mortality 2017-2018: 10,8% comes from CDC

Reactions: Like 1


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## Alan Sweet

From CD ...
During the 2017-2018 season, the percentage of deaths attributed to pneumonia and influenza (P&I) was at or above the epidemic threshold for 16 consecutive weeks. During the past five seasons, the average number of weeks this indicator was above threshold was 11 (range of 7 to 15 weeks). Nationally, mortality attributed to P&I exceeded 10.0% for four consecutive weeks, peaking at 10.8% during the week ending January 20, 2018.

Reactions: Like 2 | Sincere 1


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## TimR

Just wait till all the kids come back from spring break!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Alan Sweet

@TimR If you are referring to college spring break, there is better chnce they retiurn with some mysterious STD than the Wuhan virus.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gdurfey

Have you seen pics on national news of kids at Clearwater, Florida? Disgusting, worse if you hear the interviews

Reactions: Agree 3


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## FranklinWorkshops

TimR said:


> Just wait till all the kids come back from spring break!


It's going to spread like crazy when the brain-challenged kids drag themselves home from spring break. Parents should quarantine them in the basement for at least two weeks. Just throw down a pizza and beer and they'll be happy with their phones and computers.

Reactions: Agree 7 | Funny 2


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## JerseyHighlander

This is a ridiculous scam. Engineered propaganda and fear mongering used for a power grab. States trying to declare martial law & suspend the constitution over a fairy tale.


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## Sprung

Alan Sweet said:


> The Wuhan virus numbers come the site given in post.
> 8727 / 214,000 =0.04... ~4%
> Flu season mortality 2017-2018: 10,8% comes from CDC



https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018.htm

"The overall burden of influenza for the 2017-2018 season was an estimated 45 million influenza illnesses, 21 million influenza-associated medical visits, 810,000 influenza-related hospitalizations, and 61,000 influenza-associated deaths"

61,000 deaths is a tragedy. But it's extremely far from a 10.8% mortality rate.

61,000 / 45,000,000 = 0.00135

Or 0.135%

Reactions: Agree 2


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## JerseyHighlander

61,000 Deaths in the US, from the normal flu, the one that has apparently disappeared entirely this year. With a US population of 327 million.

According to the information posted on the site linked by the OP, 3130 deaths in China attributed to Corona Virus, with China's population of 1.39 BILLION.

China has 4.25x our population and has only had 3120 deaths. 

This is an incredibly low death rate for anything yet is being hyped up to proportion of a worldwide plague... It is generally estimated that 1200 people die nearly every single day in this country from medical malpractice alone. 1200 EVERY DAY. I'll take my chances with whatever virus you want to throw at me. 

This while information coming out of Italy is that 90% of the deaths claimed to be caused by Corona Virus were people that were already in such terrible condition there was little chance they weren't going to die anyway. 

This is mind control propaganda at it's absolute best.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Alan Sweet

@Sprung, I'm not going to dispute your numbers (mine came from https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2017-2018.htm)
My overall concern was that the media had absolutely no concern for terrible epidemic of 2017-18 and have been primarily responsible for creating mass fear and panic for
one that is far less severe. In addition, the media also avoided mentioning anything about in the flu epidemic of 2011-2012 (56,000 died in the US). The news media in this country is corrupt and only address those things that are self serving. They care less about truth and facts or the people that read their crap.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Sprung

Alan Sweet said:


> @Sprung, I'm not going to dispute your numbers (mine came from https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2017-2018.htm)
> My overall concern was that the media had absolutely no concern for terrible epidemic of 2017-18 and have been primarily responsible for creating mass fear and panic for
> one that is far less severe. In addition, the media also avoided mentioning anything about in the flu epidemic of 2011-2012 (56,000 died in the US). The news media in this country is corrupt and only address those things that are self serving. They care less about truth and facts or the people that read their crap.



Just to clarify, the line where you got your percentage:

Nationally, mortality attributed to P&I exceeded 10.0% for four consecutive weeks, peaking at 10.8% during the week ending January 20, 2018.

It is stating that during 4 specific weeks deaths attributed to pneumonia and influenza made up 10% of the deaths in the US each of those weeks, so 1 out of 10 who died in those weeks died from pneumonia or influenza. Then one week experienced P&I being attributed to 10.8% of deaths in the listed week.

But as far as the actual death rate of influenza vs. those who contract it, the average is roughly 0.14% of people who contract influenza in a given year die from it. A definite tragedy that is unfortunately so overlooked - never mentioned.

As far as my thoughts on COVID-19, well, I'm not going to go into it here, other than to say that I've become well researched on it from reliable resources (certainly not mainstream media) and from personal conversations with health care professionals and, while it may not kill as many people as the flu in the end, it is certainly something to be concerned about.

Reactions: Like 1


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## T. Ben

I don’t think it’s the death rate they’re worried about,it’s how fast it spreads,and the amount of people infected,showing symptoms, and needing care would be to many for the hospitals to handle.

Reactions: Agree 11


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## Spinartist

All the beaches just got closed here. Stupidity!!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Herb G.

FWIW, the first death in Maryland was one of my neighbors.

Reactions: Sincere 10


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## Schroedc

So... My kid got sent home from work today. His girlfriend is being tested for it and his job decided to get him out of the plant even though he's never near anyone. I'm hoping she tests negative so he can get back to work.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Sincere 4


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## T. Ben

Herb G. said:


> FWIW, the first death in Maryland was one of my neighbors.


Sorry to hear that,I hope you weren’t exposed to it.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## ripjack13

Supposedly found a cure for it using generic stuff....

https://www.covidtrial.io/?fbclid=IwAR0241-LoY9mZmP6KAxd8wQ_7YNx-hxknS3dRTx6ZbXl2_HMj1FuzX-rAFQ

*An Open Data Clinical Trial for COVID-19 Prevention*




BREAKING UPDATE: Clinical trial by Gautret, Raoult, et al. (2020)

> Watch interview with Dr. Raoult

*What is this initiative?*
We're an independent group of scientists and physicians working on an open-data clinical trial for prevention of COVID-19, through the use of hydroxychloroquine in combination with other therapeutic agents, for prevention of SARS-COV2 infection in high risk health care workers.

Unlike a typical commercial drug trial, our objective is to share trial data with the public* and health-care professionals as close to real-time as possible (with a reasonable level of data quality assurance).

Given the rapidly spreading coronavirus pandemic, we're looking for every possible means to fast-track the effort.

> Read our draft paper

* _Data will be de-identified to preserve participants' privacy and conform with regulatory requirements._

*Join the trial*
Objective: Evaluate the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in the prevention of COVID-19 infection.

Current Phase: We're first focusing on a cohort study of healthy medical professionals and healthcare workers.

Status: Active / Recruiting

Join the study: If you're a front-line healthcare worker (physician, nurse, etc.), and willing to participate in the trial (or already taking hydroxychloroquine), please send us an email.

Future phase: Case-control study of hydroxychloroquine in the prevention of COVID-19. Stay tuned.

*Can my company / organization participate in the trial?*
We'd be happy to discuss.

*Could I support the project in other ways?*
If you're interested to support or partner on regulatory front, clinical trial, or funding, please send us an email.

*Background*
*A recent controlled clinical study conducted by Didier Raoult M.D/Ph.D, et. al in France has shown that 100% patients that received a combination of HCQ and Azithromycin tested negative and were virologically cured within 6 days of treatment.*

In addition, recent guidelines from South Korea and China report that hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are effective antiviral therapeutic treatments for novel coronavirus.

A therapeutic agent that prevents infection with novel coronavirus is highly desirable--especially for persons with high-risk exposure (e.g healthcare professionals) as well as persons with comorbidities (heart disease, diabetes, etc) and compromised immune systems. Ground-breaking in vitro studies demonstrate potential efficacy of hydroxychloroquine as a prophylactic for novel coronavirus infection in primate cells.

_Note: Hydroxychloroquine (brand name Plaquenil) is an inexpensive, globally available drug (tablet) that was approved for widespread medical use since 1955. It is commonly used today to treat malaria, systemic lupus erythematosus and rheumatoid arthritis._

*Project Lead*
Gregory J. Rigano, Esq

Reactions: Great Post 3


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## Herb G.

T. Ben said:


> Sorry to hear that,I hope you weren’t exposed to it.


No, thankfully I wasn't exposed.

Reactions: Like 5 | +Karma 2


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## woodtickgreg

I haul steel and make deliveries to many businesses throughout Michigan and Ohio, I come in contact with many people. Most companies wont even let us in the door, cant use a restroom so I just have to pee outside. All the auto plants are shut down, not much traffic on the road.
I came to work today and found out that a guy that works in the warehouse and has been off for the week is in isolation. Meaning the company doesn't want to say what it might be. So more than likely all of us have been exposed to it. 2 other guys in the warehouse did not show up for work today. I'm so screwed! The company needs to lay us off and shut down for a few weeks like all the companies I deli er to, my loads have been less than half the size they normally are anyway.

Reactions: Sincere 7


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## woodtickgreg

Good news, the guy who has been sick at work test came back negative for corona. That's a relief.

Reactions: Like 10 | Agree 2 | Great Post 1 | Sincere 2


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## Gdurfey

My wife came home from work yesterday down with something......a nurse, and had a fever and dry cough last night. However, I think her timing stinks and she just has the regular flu. she has some other symptoms that just don't match C-19; thankfully. I am here for the long haul anyway; our office shut down, so I am not teleworking. Prayers for all!!! and All situations; jobs, health, etc.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Sincere 10


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## rob3232

Differense between common flu and coronavirus. Long read but very interesting!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CWg1EfeaXVBmHhnHiJJVdDJkz4heUsrvks4wPwPbM1c/edit?usp=sharing

Hopefully the link works.

Reactions: Like 1


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## woodtickgreg

The link works. It was a good read. I have learned much about this disease over the last couple of weeks. Enough to realize that at my age it could be deadly. So I have been staying in my shop, lol. Going to work and dealing with people is a little scary at this point.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Gdurfey

Wife still feels like crud. This has her puzzled to say the least. Day 4, but no real fever since Thursday night. It was quick onset which is more a common flu symptom. Although she has had a dry cough, it’s not persistent. She will call her hospital tomorrow and see what the protocol is for her. She also knows there is a huge shortage of test kits right now, nit they are horribly short of nurses right now so they need her back. 

continue to be safe out there.

Reactions: Sincere 7


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## woodtickgreg

Our governor just issued a stay at home order. I'm off work until April 13th. I have enough food for 3 weeks, and enough wood for years, lol. I'll be down in the basement shop if you need me. I wont have a problem complying, I'm a home body anyways. Plus I got the wb when I'm not in the shop!

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 1 | Sincere 1


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## JerseyHighlander

I wonder when they're going to issue a "don't have to pay your mortgage" order? "Don't worry about taxes this year" order... Or a "stop propagating this fairy tale of the killer plaque" order.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## TimR

woodtickgreg said:


> Our governor just issued a stay at home order. I'm off work until April 13th. I have enough food for 3 weeks, and enough wood for years, lol. I'll be down in the basement shop if you need me. I wont have a problem complying, I'm a home body anyways. Plus I got the wb when I'm not in the shop!


Good to hear Greg! I’d have to agree the lockdowns and shutdowns make a compelling case to spend time in the shop. I’m roughing some fresh cut bowls out, something I’ve not done in a long time!

Reactions: Way Cool 1


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## T. Ben

JerseyHighlander said:


> I wonder when they're going to issue a "don't have to pay your mortgage" order? "Don't worry about taxes this year" order... Or a "stop propagating this fairy tale of the killer plaque" order.


What has your dentist been telling you?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mike1950

so far 139 in 1,000,000 have got disease in US. 1% would be 10,000. 1000 would be .1% and thus we are at .0139 % of folks that have contracted disease... If you watch the news- we are dying in the streets like flys... best suggestion- shut off the damned TV. I bet it reduces stress and BP. probably as many people will die from worrying about it. 
Most are not old enough to remember but before vaccines ----if you are my age- this is what we called contagious Measles is so contagious that if one person has it, up to 90% of the people close to that person who are not immune will also become infected. Infected people can spread measles to others from four days before through four days after the rash appears.
we all got it young. we now are spoiled - have forgot what it was like- measles -mumps- whopping cough- polio- chicken pox (heaven forbid I have insulted chickens- I bet that is PETA at the door with a summons) German Measles ( OMG Now the Germans are in line at the door also) Smallpox (Damn @Tony is in line now)
Vaccines changed the world saved so many- we are so spoiled......................... need to think about the real numbers- the numbers above- The real fear is fear itself- shut off the TV--- My rant for the day... Washington state got it first- got loose in a state run ederly Care facility- key words STATE RUN. Our numbers are flat. no total lock down. we will be just fine....

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Great Post 4 | Funny 1


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## jasonb

Mike1950 said:


> Smallpox (Damn @Tony is in line now)

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Funny 5


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## Tony

Mike1950 said:


> so far 139 in 1,000,000 have got disease in US. 1% would be 10,000. 1000 would be .1% and thus we are at .0139 % of folks that have contracted disease... If you watch the news- we are dying in the streets like flys... best suggestion- shut off the damned TV. I bet it reduces stress and BP. probably as many people will die from worrying about it.
> Most are not old enough to remember but before vaccines ----if you are my age- this is what we called contagious Measles is so contagious that if one person has it, up to 90% of the people close to that person who are not immune will also become infected. Infected people can spread measles to others from four days before through four days after the rash appears.
> we all got it young. we now are spoiled - have forgot what it was like- measles -mumps- whopping cough- polio- chicken pox (heaven forbid I have insulted chickens- I bet that is PETA at the door with a summons) German Measles ( OMG Now the Germans are in line at the door also) Smallpox (Damn @Tony is in line now)
> Vaccines changed the world saved so many- we are so spoiled......................... need to think about the real numbers- the numbers above- The real fear is fear itself- shut off the TV--- My rant for the day... Washington state got it first- got loose in a state run ederly Care facility- key words STATE RUN. Our numbers are flat. no total lock down. we will be just fine....

Reactions: Funny 3


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## trc65

...shut off the TV....

Absolutely the best advice ever. 

Although there is a pandemic going on, the media is trying to out do itself with the doom and gloom increasing with every "report". 

It's like the _War of the Worlds_ broadcast in 1938, only every media outlet is participating.

Reactions: Agree 7


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## Gdurfey

I want to rewatch the Andromeda Strain...……..

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## trc65

Gdurfey said:


> I want to rewatch the Andromeda Strain...……..


Just don't start drinking Sterno, it won't cure the Wuhan Flu.

Also, don't take any chloroquine phosphate, it's for your fish, and could kill you!!!

Reactions: Like 2 | Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## JerseyHighlander

Some of the most interesting reading yet on the scam that is being propagated on the world.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/12-experts-question-covid-19-panic

Some of my favorite excerpts;
*Dr Sucharit Bhakdi* is a specialist in microbiology. He was a professor at the Johannes Gutenberg University in Mainz and head of the Institute for Medical Microbiology and Hygiene and one of the most cited research scientists in German history.

What he says:
[The government’s anti-COVID19 measures] are grotesque, absurd and very dangerous […] The life expectancy of millions is being shortened. The horrifying impact on the world economy threatens the existence of countless people. The consequences on medical care are profound. Already services to patients in need are reduced, operations cancelled, practices empty, hospital personnel dwindling. All this will impact profoundly on our whole society.

All these measures are leading to self-destruction and collective suicide based on nothing but a spook.

*Dr Wolfgang Wodarg* is a German physician specialising in Pulmonology, politician and former chairman of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. In 2009 he called for an inquiry into alleged conflicts of interest surrounding the EU response to the Swine Flu pandemic.

What he says:
Politicians are being courted by scientists…scientists who want to be important to get money for their institutions. Scientists who just swim along in the mainstream and want their part of it […] And what is missing right now is a rational way of looking at things.

We should be asking questions like “How did you find out this virus was dangerous?”, “How was it before?”, “Didn’t we have the same thing last year?”, “Is it even something new?”

*Dr Joel Kettner* s professor of Community Health Sciences and Surgery at Manitoba University, former Chief Public Health Officer for Manitoba province and Medical Director of the International Centre for Infectious Diseases.

What he says:

I have never seen anything like this, anything anywhere near like this. I’m not talking about the pandemic, because I’ve seen 30 of them, one every year. It is called influenza. And other respiratory illness viruses, we don’t always know what they are. But I’ve never seen this reaction, and I’m trying to understand why.

[…]

I worry about the message to the public, about the fear of coming into contact with people, being in the same space as people, shaking their hands, having meetings with people. I worry about many, many consequences related to that.

[…]

In Hubei, in the province of Hubei, where there has been the most cases and deaths by far, the actual number of cases reported is 1 per 1000 people and the actual rate of deaths reported is 1 per 20,000. So maybe that would help to put things into perspective.

At the risk of quoting the entire article, I'll stop there. The video interview are also very revealing.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## ripjack13

Gdurfey said:


> I want to rewatch the Andromeda Strain...……..


Soylent Green!!!

Reactions: Like 2


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## T. Ben

JerseyHighlander said:


> Some of the most interesting reading yet on the scam that is being propagated on the world.
> 
> https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/12-experts-question-covid-19-panic
> 
> Some of my favorite excerpts;
> *Dr Sucharit Bhakdi* is a specialist in microbiology. He was a professor at the Johannes Gutenberg University in Mainz and head of the Institute for Medical Microbiology and Hygiene and one of the most cited research scientists in German history.
> 
> What he says:
> [The government’s anti-COVID19 measures] are grotesque, absurd and very dangerous […] The life expectancy of millions is being shortened. The horrifying impact on the world economy threatens the existence of countless people. The consequences on medical care are profound. Already services to patients in need are reduced, operations cancelled, practices empty, hospital personnel dwindling. All this will impact profoundly on our whole society.
> 
> All these measures are leading to self-destruction and collective suicide based on nothing but a spook.
> 
> *Dr Wolfgang Wodarg* is a German physician specialising in Pulmonology, politician and former chairman of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. In 2009 he called for an inquiry into alleged conflicts of interest surrounding the EU response to the Swine Flu pandemic.
> 
> What he says:
> Politicians are being courted by scientists…scientists who want to be important to get money for their institutions. Scientists who just swim along in the mainstream and want their part of it […] And what is missing right now is a rational way of looking at things.
> 
> We should be asking questions like “How did you find out this virus was dangerous?”, “How was it before?”, “Didn’t we have the same thing last year?”, “Is it even something new?”
> 
> *Dr Joel Kettner* s professor of Community Health Sciences and Surgery at Manitoba University, former Chief Public Health Officer for Manitoba province and Medical Director of the International Centre for Infectious Diseases.
> 
> What he says:
> 
> I have never seen anything like this, anything anywhere near like this. I’m not talking about the pandemic, because I’ve seen 30 of them, one every year. It is called influenza. And other respiratory illness viruses, we don’t always know what they are. But I’ve never seen this reaction, and I’m trying to understand why.
> 
> […]
> 
> I worry about the message to the public, about the fear of coming into contact with people, being in the same space as people, shaking their hands, having meetings with people. I worry about many, many consequences related to that.
> 
> […]
> 
> In Hubei, in the province of Hubei, where there has been the most cases and deaths by far, the actual number of cases reported is 1 per 1000 people and the actual rate of deaths reported is 1 per 20,000. So maybe that would help to put things into perspective.
> 
> At the risk of quoting the entire article, I'll stop there. The video interview are also very revealing.


I read through a lot of that and no where did I see the rate of infection, could you highlight,or post where it shows how fast all of these spread. Thanks.


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## Mike1950

T. Ben said:


> I read through a lot of that and no where did I see the rate of infection, could you highlight,or post where it shows how fast all of these spread. Thanks.



Best one I have found. updated by state daily.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/


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## T. Ben

Mike1950 said:


> Best one I have found. updated by state daily.
> 
> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/


That was exactly what I wanted to see,thanks again.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike1950

T. Ben said:


> That was exactly what I wanted to see,thanks again.


keep scrolling down. It has a few countries at bottom. the charts are very interesting

Reactions: Agree 1


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## JerseyHighlander

T. Ben said:


> I read through a lot of that and no where did I see the rate of infection, could you highlight,or post where it shows how fast all of these spread. Thanks.


If you read that article looking for rates of infection & statistics, I think you missed the entire point. 
Although I didn't catalogue every fact I came to, I'm pretty sure the major point being made was, that there is an incredible and probably intentional bias in both the testing and treatment leading to results that most third graders would consider unreliable & meaningless. It has been well established from multiple angles now, that the bulk of the death in Italy that are being claimed as Covid-19, 1)were people that were already dying of other things, many of them, several other things & at an age where they wouldn't survive the common cold. 2)Non of the Rates of Infection account for the actual cause of death or what is really at play beyond someones interpretation of symptoms common to damn near everything.


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## T. Ben

JerseyHighlander said:


> If you read that article looking for rates of infection & statistics, I think you missed the entire point.
> Although I didn't catalogue every fact I came to, I'm pretty sure the major point being made was, that there is an incredible and probably intentional bias in both the testing and treatment leading to results that most third graders would consider unreliable & meaningless. It has been well established from multiple angles now, that the bulk of the death in Italy that are being claimed as Covid-19, 1)were people that were already dying of other things, many of them, several other things & at an age where they wouldn't survive the common cold. 2)Non of the Rates of Infection account for the actual cause of death or what is really at play beyond someones interpretation of symptoms common to damn near everything.


Ok,what mike1950 posted has the answers I was looking for. I wasn’t trying to offend you or belittle your post.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## JerseyHighlander

T. Ben said:


> Ok,what mike1950 posted has the answers I was looking for. I wasn’t trying to offend you or belittle your post.


Apologies if the reply came off a bit strong. Too much stress from all this BS and everybody's a bit reactionary these days.
I'm going to go sit out in the sun and listen to the birds for a while...

Reactions: Like 2 | Sincere 4


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## T. Ben

JerseyHighlander said:


> Apologies if the reply came off a bit strong. Too much stress from all this BS and everybody's a bit reactionary these days.
> I'm going to go sit out in the sun and listen to the birds for a while...


No problem at all.

Reactions: Like 2


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## SENC

@Mike1950 - how did you deal with this during the Spanish Flu and the Bubonic Plague? I know this is bad, but curious how this compares?

Reactions: EyeCandy! 1 | Funny 8


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## Eric Rorabaugh

I can feel Clyde coming on!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Mike1950

SENC said:


> @Mike1950 - how did you deal with this during the Spanish Flu and the Bubonic Plague? I know this is bad, but curious how this compares?

Reactions: Funny 8 | Way Cool 1


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## Mike1950

SENC said:


> @Mike1950 - how did you deal with this during the Spanish Flu and the Bubonic Plague? I know this is bad, but curious how this compares?


but truthfully- when I was a kid- you want to see contagious- try the german measles ( hold it can I say that? ) everyone got it. and how about Polio - Kathie lived in south as child. It crippled and killed children. This Virus Covid- the China crud- kills old people that have multiple health problems. NOT KIDS. These dip bat guana news casters with big tatas and no brains should take a trip through a 1900-1955 cemetery. This is where the truth lies. the numbers. we have turned into a world of whimps. back then our parents sent us to neighbors to get exposed to diseases so we got immune when we were young. Time to walk it off sissys - get back ta work.... 69 and teasing the wife cause she is in the over 70 group.....

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Sincere 1


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## Herb G.

I heard a radio talk show the other day & I thought the guy was a crack pot.
Then I started thinking about it. He said the Chinese weaponized this virus & they locked up the Dr.'s who
put the info & warnings out there. It got me to thinking, maybe he's not such a crack pot after all.
I bet this virus came straight out of a lab dish. I've heard & seen TV news stories that this strain of the virus doesn't exist in nature.
It seems likely it did indeed come out of a lab dish, given the fatality rate & how fast it's spreading.

(Now where's that tin foil hat icon ?)


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## T. Ben

I believe one of those dr.died from it. Wouldn’t put it past the Chinese though. It put a stop to the protests in Hong Kong. Just saying.........


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## Mike1950

so many conspiracy theories- so little proof..... Edit- But the News is proof that BullChitty sells....

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## CWS

JerseyHighlander said:


> Apologies if the reply came off a bit strong. Too much stress from all this BS and everybody's a bit reactionary these days.
> I'm going to go sit out in the sun and listen to the birds for a while...


The sun is not good for an old man. I sit on the porch and listen to the birds.

Reactions: Like 1


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## DKMD

Another interesting Covid-19 site that details state by state projections for peak hospitalization and mortality:

https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1 | Informative 4


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## JerseyHighlander

DKMD said:


> Another interesting Covid-19 site that details state by state projections for peak hospitalization and mortality:
> 
> https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections



With all the misinformation and hysteria going on out there, and the fact that I still, don't know anybody who has this supposed creeping menace nor do I know anybody that knows anybody who does... I can't help but look at those ***projections*** and wonder if they are closer to reality or closer to the hysteria we experience every winter when it seems every single possibility of snow is going to be the next "storm of the century" but then turns out to be a dusting at best. And who will take responsibility for the panic induced by this if it does turn out to be nothing in the end?

Has anybody else seen all the videos of the Hospitals that look more like ghost towns then the "overrun war zones" they are claimed to be??? I have relatives that work in several hospitals here in the most densely populated area of the country, not "overrun" at all and I'm being told the bulk of the people needing these ventilators are needing them for anxiety attacks from panic.


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## Gdurfey

over run war zone. My wife is an RN; not good times; short supplies (one mask per 12 hour shift which usually means 14 hours), etc. Not enough tests to go around so you really don't know how many people have it. I am not saying the press hasn't stirred the pot, they have. however, this is very real, very contagious and for most of us; no big deal. get it and get over it...…...it is just those like some on this group with any type of underlying issues that it can turn into a nightmare very rapidly. 

I truly believe the real story is not the number reported by the news, but the number of unknowns walking about infecting others when they don't know it. My wife moved very quickly to agree with social distancing once the "real" info came out. At first was just mad because she was still losing kids to "the flu" which got no response. So at first, she was just ticked at the hysteria. Once they (the nursing community) got the real story, she immediately changed.

……….further, I am one of those also compromised although not nearly like others: type 2 diabetic (not bad yet) but am also over 59 and live at altitude which makes breathing difficult to begin with. Just my choice, but my work closed the building, put us on telework, and I am doing my best to comply with the state's order to stay home.

Reactions: Like 1 | Sincere 4


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## rob3232

It is starting to hit closer to our homes. Fortunately more people are taking this seriously. It’s something most of us have never dealt with. There is a large learning curve for the older population and younger too. Looking forward we just need to help each other out when we can .

Reactions: Sincere 3


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## JerseyHighlander

Attitude toward the problem being a major part of the fight, I've never sought to put a label on myself for anything but truth be known, any doctor that knows my history would call me "immune compromised" as well. Not limited to but including damaged lungs from a bought with Mycoplasma Pneumonia just four years ago. It doesn't concern me in any way in regards to this new flu strain and, not to in any way minimize anyone elses situation, I don't expect the rest of the world to come to a screeching halt on my behalf.
One thing I am convinced of is if I had 1)not checked myself out of that hospital ICU, against doctors wishes & 2) allowed them to do a myriad of things to me to which my responses were mostly "no, no, Hell NO! & Not a friggin prayer!", I would have died there. When I look at the well known fact that medical errors/malpractice kill orders of magnitude more people in this country then ten years worth of flu ever have, I have to wonder if the bulk of the people dying, aren't dying from the pharmaceutical/chemical treatment. 
I know this, after my last experience there, I will lay at home and die on my couch before I ever go back to another hospital for an illness.

The other very serious issue I have with this all is the fact that so many elderly & young alike, who were all in a condition that they were almost certainly going to die under any circumstances, are being held up as an example of this terrible plague.

This all of course being my, maybe not so humble, $0.02... Possibly worth nothing more than that.


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## DKMD

JerseyHighlander said:


> ...When I look at the well known fact that medical errors/malpractice kill orders of magnitude more people in this country then ten years worth of flu ever have



I find it odd that one would accept the medical error data as entirely factual while dismissing the data about the current pandemic.

Fingers crossed that this entire community avoids illness or injury from either of those things.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Sincere 6


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## rob3232

@JerseyHighlander This is moving fast throughout the country. I realize that a lot of people have blown it off. No offense my friend! Please take care!

Reactions: Agree 3


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## woodtickgreg

I have many friends that work in the medical community and they are all overworked at this time because it is very real. I dismissed it at first like many but quickly changed my tune when my friends started telling me the truth. It's not going to hurt to comply with the gov. orders to try and slow this thing down. It's not just about what demographic it kills or statistically how many. It's just that it does kill, and can permanently damage your lungs if you do survive it depending on how severe your case is. Just not worth the risk in my opinion. I'm not afraid of dying, I'm not paranoid and hoarding tp, but I'm not eager to take the long dirt nap just yet. My bucket list is still quite long. So I'll deal with my financial decrease for awhile like everybody else, not bitch about it and just suck it up and deal with it. One day we will all look back on this and remember it. Heck, I'm getting some great shop time!

Reactions: Like 7 | Agree 1 | Creative 1


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## rob3232

Great post @woodtickgreg ! We are helping my dad 75 and neighbors that have asthma. Helping out others is what we to do!

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | +Karma 1 | Informative 1


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## Mike1950

DKMD said:


> I find it odd that one would accept the medical error data as entirely factual while dismissing the data about the current pandemic.
> 
> Fingers crossed that this entire community avoids illness or injury from either of those things.


Thanks Doc, we appreciate your take on this.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## woodtickgreg

A friend of mine texted me this morning. His mom is recovering from it, his dad has dementia and is positive for it, and his sister that is in her 50s is quarantined because she has been taking care of both of the elderly parents. This shite is real. It's gotten pretty bad in my area. The 3 county's around me, and the one I live in, are the highest in Michigan.

Reactions: Like 1 | Sincere 2


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## Schroedc

It's killed two in the next larger town over so far, yeah they were in a nursing home but does that mean they were gonna die anyways? Everyone says look, it's killing people that would die anyways but that's crap. Just because they were old and ill doesn't mean they should have had to die of this. And now, because people needed to work to pay bills, My sister was exposed by a coworker that kept hiding he was sick to keep getting a paycheck. She is under 40 and if she does come down with this it'll probably kill her due to respiratory issues she's had for years. Yeah, just people that were gonna die anyways....

Reactions: Sincere 8


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## JerseyHighlander

DKMD said:


> I find it odd that one would accept the medical error data as entirely factual while dismissing the data about the current pandemic.



I want to make clear, no part of what I’ve said or am about to say should be construed as an assault on you, your character or your motives. You threw something into the ring, I looked at it and threw something else. This entire thing smells funny like nothing I’ve ever experienced.

To answer your question, in short;

One of these, the medical malpractice numbers, is documented data of actual occurrences collected repeatedly over decades. And to be honest it is widely believed to be extraordinarily conservative.

While the other, is a ***Projection*** of something that has not even happened yet, and that may or may not happen that way at all. Again, the analogy of the “weekly storm of the century” the past several winters, does absolutely apply.

I think anybody who’s brain isn’t caught up in the fog of hysteria and fear can see the black and white difference between these two things. Agree or disagree?

I have spent my life immersed in science. That causes me to question virtually everything & accept nothing at face value. So, here are some of the questions that immediately come to mind when I see this prediction and weigh it against my direct, personal experiences;

Who is responsible for this information?
From what sources of information are they taking their data?
How reliable do they believe the data to be and how do they quantify that?
What level of scrutiny, if any at all, is being applied to these numbers & the source of data?
In other words, what differentiates this “prediction” from a Wild A$$ Guess or directed propaganda?

What is their bias, if any, toward a particular desired outcome? I continuously hear the Gates Foundation is involved… That raises all kinds of additional questions.

******What level of accuracy/error are they claiming and even more importantly, what is their liability if they are WRONG? Seriously, after stirring the entire country up into a frenzy of the most epic proportions I’ve seen in my lifetime, crashing the entire economy, what responsibility do they have for being wrong? Is there any at all?******

Is this data on the same lines as that put out by the UK scientist that recently admitted publicly that his data was absurdly overblown and the real death toll was likely to be nowhere near his original [projection]?

What level of autopsy or any competent evaluation at all is really being done to determine exactly what was & was not the CAUSE of deaths, as opposed to one of the things they were diagnosed with, possibly in a blind rush, when the died?

Until I know that the source of this internet graphic being floated around isn’t done by somebody that belongs to the same union as the weather people and the Psychic Friends Network, I’m just not buying it. First we were being told we’re all about to die, now it’s “no, it hasn’t peaked yet, the boogeyman is still out there”.

Again, I'm just trying to have a discussion here. Intellectual discourse needs to be two sided.



DKMD said:


> Fingers crossed that this entire community avoids illness or injury from either of those things.



On this we agree wholeheartedly.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JerseyHighlander

Schroedc said:


> It's killed two in the next larger town over so far, yeah they were in a nursing home but does that mean they were gonna die anyways? Everyone says look, it's killing people that would die anyways but that's crap. Just because they were old and ill doesn't mean they should have had to die of this. And now, because people needed to work to pay bills, My sister was exposed by a coworker that kept hiding he was sick to keep getting a paycheck. She is under 40 and if she does come down with this it'll probably kill her due to respiratory issues she's had for years. Yeah, just people that were gonna die anyways....



I think you have very much misconstrued everything I've said.


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## rob3232

OMG , Just ignore the dead bodies in the corner.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mike1950

JerseyHighlander said:


> I think you have very much misconstrued everything I've said.



Sorry, one scientist is closer to Bullchit than science.


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## Mike1950

Something to look at are the s. Korean and Japans numbers. They are better at social distancing and wearing masks then we are. And it shows in their numbers. 
And no matter what numbers or methodology you use, it sure will not hurt to err on the side of caution. 
One nice thing is for the first time in quite a while we are all complaining about the same thing.....

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 7


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## rob3232

JerseyHighlander said:


> I think you have very much misconstrued



Are you just trolling? Here on Woodbarter we care about each other as our friends and family. This pandemic is serious!

[content removed for civility ]

Take care and be safe other wood bites!

Reactions: Agree 3


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## JerseyHighlander

Mike1950 said:


> Sorry, one scientist is closer to Bullchit than science.


Would you care to explain that statement Mike??


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## DKMD

JerseyHighlander said:


> I want to make clear, no part of what I’ve said or am about to say should be construed as an assault on you, your character or your motives. You threw something into the ring, I looked at it and threw something else. This entire thing smells funny like nothing I’ve ever experienced.
> 
> To answer your question, in short;
> 
> One of these, the medical malpractice numbers, is documented data of actual occurrences collected repeatedly over decades. And to be honest it is widely believed to be extraordinarily conservative.
> 
> While the other, is a ***Projection*** of something that has not even happened yet, and that may or may not happen that way at all. Again, the analogy of the “weekly storm of the century” the past several winters, does absolutely apply.
> 
> I think anybody who’s brain isn’t caught up in the fog of hysteria and fear can see the black and white difference between these two things. Agree or disagree?
> 
> I have spent my life immersed in science. That causes me to question virtually everything & accept nothing at face value. So, here are some of the questions that immediately come to mind when I see this prediction and weigh it against my direct, personal experiences;
> 
> Who is responsible for this information?
> From what sources of information are they taking their data?
> How reliable do they believe the data to be and how do they quantify that?
> What level of scrutiny, if any at all, is being applied to these numbers & the source of data?
> In other words, what differentiates this “prediction” from a Wild A$$ Guess or directed propaganda?
> 
> What is their bias, if any, toward a particular desired outcome? I continuously hear the Gates Foundation is involved… That raises all kinds of additional questions.
> 
> ******What level of accuracy/error are they claiming and even more importantly, what is their liability if they are WRONG? Seriously, after stirring the entire country up into a frenzy of the most epic proportions I’ve seen in my lifetime, crashing the entire economy, what responsibility do they have for being wrong? Is there any at all?******
> 
> Is this data on the same lines as that put out by the UK scientist that recently admitted publicly that his data was absurdly overblown and the real death toll was likely to be nowhere near his original [projection]?
> 
> What level of autopsy or any competent evaluation at all is really being done to determine exactly what was & was not the CAUSE of deaths, as opposed to one of the things they were diagnosed with, possibly in a blind rush, when the died?
> 
> Until I know that the source of this internet graphic being floated around isn’t done by somebody that belongs to the same union as the weather people and the Psychic Friends Network, I’m just not buying it. First we were being told we’re all about to die, now it’s “no, it hasn’t peaked yet, the boogeyman is still out there”.
> 
> Again, I'm just trying to have a discussion here. Intellectual discourse needs to be two sided.
> 
> 
> 
> On this we agree wholeheartedly.




Certainly no offense taken here, and none is intended. We simply disagree, and that’s part of the fun of interacting with others!

I completely agree that the media has sensationalized some of the projections for covid. Everything gets pumped up and caffeinated before it makes the news these days.

One of the real problems with mainstream reporting is the serious lack of a science foundation in those presenting the news. That’s certainly true with the covid coverage, and it applies to the mainstream reporting on medical errors and mortality as well.

I humbly disagree with your statement that the medical error mortality numbers are widely agreed to be ‘extraordinarily conservative’. Based on the 250k error deaths per year, one third to one half of all hospital deaths would be due to medical error. I’ve never worked in a hospital where that even seems remotely possible.

Obviously, another issue with the covi projections is the inability to incorporate interventions and their resultant effects into the modes. How much does isolation help? Masks? Medications? Testing?

What about the underlying condition of the populace? Obesity? Smoking? Heart disease?

On top of that, I don’t trust the Chinese(and others) to share accurate data, and large portions of the early models were based on that data by necessity.

I’m not suggesting that the models are entirely accurate, but like the weather forecasts you referenced, they may be our most accurate prediction at this time. Just because a hurricane model fails to accurately predict the exact time and location for landfall, it doesn’t mean the storm should be ignored.

Similarly, the infamous medical error data was extrapolated from a few small studies and a large data pool from the IOM. Anyone with a working knowledge of ICD-10 coding can tell you about the rampant inaccuracy in medical data collection. You just can’t make chicken salad out of chicken crap, and unfortunately, much of the metadata collected in medicine is garbage.

Do people die from medical errors? Absolutely! Are people dying from covid-19? Yep. Are we collectively over reacting to a virus? Maybe, but I’m not willing to take unnecessary risks... I suppose I feel the same way about covid that you feel about our healthcare system.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Great Post 6


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## Mike1950

End the day on humor, we get plenty of bad news. Maybe tomorrow we can reflect and post good stuff, funny stuff, hell it is a wood site.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 5 | +Karma 1 | Useful 1


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## Eric Rorabaugh

I give you an A+, pat on the back, kudos and every other . That is SOOOOOO true.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## woodtickgreg

Betty and I ventured out today to go get some groceries and cat food. No issues at the pet food store, got what we needed for the kitties. Went to Sam's club, store opened at 9, we got there at 9:30. The line to get in was outside and wrapped around the building. I was not going to stand in a line like that only to get in and find out they where out of most stuff anyway. So we went to meijers right across the street. Got everything on our list, got some nice hamburger, a big pot roast, some snacks and nuts, even tp! Lines weren't ridiculously long and they had most things in stock. Kudo's to meijer for doing such a great job!
P.S. gas was 1.39 at meijers.
Well now I wont have to leave the house again for another couple of weeks. We did do our shopping in n95 mask and disposable gloves, a minor inconvenience. Better safe than sorry, cases are still rising here and it's bad in my county.

Reactions: Like 2 | Sincere 5


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## woodtickgreg

My friends dad passed from cv19. His mom is still recovering and his sister is in isolation with her mom because she has been caring for her.

Reactions: Sincere 13


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## Eric Rorabaugh

Hate to hear Greg. Will be praying for them.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## ripjack13

My brother works at a hospital and needed some individual spot tents made. like this one....




So, I went to Lowes and got some pvc pipe and connectors. Spent $30 on it all, including the glue.
Here's what I came up with....













If it works, they may want a bunch more. I'll make em and donate my time to make em. It took just under an hour to make that one, but that's including layout and dry fit time. I can make em faster next time. I have all the lengths marked down for the next ones.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 10 | Sincere 2


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## rob3232

Great gesture Mark! Hopefully they will not need them.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## ripjack13

rob3232 said:


> Great gesture Mark! Hopefully they will not need them.


Unfortunately they will need them. It's a full house over there. There's both corvid cases and people who are just sick, and of course, those that think they're sick.


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## Mike1950

ripjack13 said:


> My brother works at a hospital and needed some individual spot tents made. like this one....
> View attachment 184307
> 
> So, I went to Lowes and got some pvc pipe and connectors. Spent $30 on it all, including the glue.
> Here's what I came up with....
> 
> View attachment 184308
> 
> View attachment 184309
> 
> View attachment 184310
> 
> If it works, they may want a bunch more. I'll make em and donate my time to make em. It took just under an hour to make that one, but that's including layout and dry fit time. I can make em faster next time. I have all the lengths marked down for the next ones.


If you need money for materials pm me

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Great Post 1 | +Karma 3


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## ripjack13

Mike1950 said:


> If you need money for materials pm me



Thank you for the gesture Mike. I think the Hospital will cover the cost. I'll let ya know if not....

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## woodtickgreg

Well I was pretty much able to get anything I needed through Amazon. But that has come to a halt too. Now they say nothing will be delivered until may 2nd. Went from next day or 2 to 1 month. It is what it is.

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## woodtickgreg

The governor just extended our stay at home order another 2 weeks until April 30th.
What a bummer, more shop time.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1 | +Karma 1


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## Eric Rorabaugh

Poor poor you. At least it will give you more time to get to feeling better and more shop/honey-do list stuff done

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## woodtickgreg

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Poor poor you. At least it will give you more time to get to feeling better and more shop/honey-do list stuff done


I've been feeling better brother, I think I've made the turn and I'm on the mend. Eyes still get watery from time to time, still a little wheezy at night but much better.

Reactions: Like 3 | Great Post 1 | Sincere 2


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## Graybeard

We just had a call to arrange our first burial from Covid19 in our little cemetery. The gentleman was cremated and sadly only immediate family will be allowed to attend. They're also is recovery so I'm not sure how the funeral director will handle it. Very hard times to say goodbye. We'll be out of harms way as all we have to do is open and close the opening after they've all gone. Greg, hats off to you big time. It becomes real when it hits close to home.

Reactions: Sincere 4


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## Mr. Peet

We just picked up a former truck driver for the firehouse tonight, trouble breathing. They don't have the quick strips here, will be a few days for results.

Reactions: Sincere 4 | Creative 1


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## trc65

We have no cases within two counties of us, so we are lucky in that regard. However, under the same restrictions as Chicago, even though we are 3.5 hrs away from them.

David's post hit home though. A week ago, a longtime family friend passed away from ALS. He owned his own seed business and I and my siblings all worked for him detasselling corn every summer from the age of 12 until we went to college. Dad also used him as his sole seed source while he was farming. In addition, they were friends and attended every family wedding, graduation and anniversary in our family.

His funeral is tomorrow, and unfortunately only immediate family are allowed. I will be there as one of his six pall bearers. So there will be his wife, one daughter and six friends. He was very active in the community, church and American Legion, so in normal times would be hundreds in attendance at his funeral. His other daughter and granddaughter live in California near one of the hot spots, but decided that they won't come and risk the health of her mother who is 87. 

Everyone knew this was coming, and "Bud" even joked that no one should be sad, he had 90 good years (was almost 92 when he died). Nevertheless, it is going to be difficult tomorrow as one of only eight people allowed to be present.

BTW, the funeral home is requiring masks for those of us in attendance.

Reactions: Sincere 9


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## Mr. Peet

Former co-worker died over the weekend, here in PA, suspected heart attack. His wife is in ICU in AZ. Something happened to her while visiting son. Family is a mess, no one can travel for risk reasons. Everything has been postponed until July. Hope the date / month holds.

Tim, the day is yours, be well.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Sincere 2 | Creative 1


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## Schroedc

We've had five C-19 deaths just north of us. So far it hasn't hit our little town but the stay at home here in MN goes until May 4th. I just got cancellation emails from two more shows.

Reactions: Sincere 2


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## woodtickgreg

I went to Sam's club to get groceries today. There was a line to get in, they would let a few in at a time. I was able to get everything on my list except for heavy cream. It's still not stocked 100% but it's better, there was even toilet paper, i didnt need any so I didnt buy any. There was some meat, eggs and dairy where in good supply, veggies where good. But if it's not food related or household stuff the isles where blocked off. I was gonna grab a garden hose since I was there, no dice! not allowed. Gas was .84 cents a gallon. I went to Kroger and found my heavy cream, $6 a bottle!!
I couldn't help but think the whole time I was shopping that this is what socialism and communism is like, you get what you can. There was lots of empty shelves. But this is what the democrats and the globalist want, one world order where they can controll you. The corona virus is real and people are dying, people that I know. But it is also politisized in a way to work an agenda. I cant help. But think about that with what I'm seeing in todays times. I hope I never see this country turned to socialism in my time left on this earth.

Reactions: Agree 6 | Sincere 1


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## rob3232

I’m afraid of the virus . Not to much about communism or socialism. I appreciate your thoughts but why are you worried about the take over of our government? Hope all is well Greg! Watching right now.,

Reactions: Agree 1


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## drycreek

The virus doesn’t scare me but communism and socialism concerns me because I don’t want my kids and grandkids to live under such rules. I’ve enjoyed living in one of the greatest countries in the world even though it has had its problems and would like for them to be able to do the same.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## woodtickgreg

rob3232 said:


> I’m afraid of the virus . Not to much about communism or socialism. I appreciate your thoughts but why are you worried about the take over of our government? Hope all is well Greg! Watching right now.,


Just been watching what's been going on over the past 10 or 15 years. I wouldn't say I'm worried about it as much as I am concerned. It's been happening very slowly, out rights are being eroded very slowly.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Mr. Peet

woodtickgreg said:


> Just been watching what's been going on over the past 10 or 15 years. I wouldn't say I'm worried about it as much as I am concerned. It's been happening very slowly, out rights are being eroded very slowly.



We feel very closely the same in many areas. I like using maps sometimes. In PA, it is ironic that 75- 95% of the land owners of the state vote one way, but often lose because the cites vote differently. Majority in one way, but not the other. When it changes and takes away freedoms on how families have been using their land, it creates division. The more this happens, the more polarized things are getting.

Our gas just dropped under $2.00....0.84 cents....Wow...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## ripjack13

Here are the official Coronavirus guidelines for those that get might get mixed messages:
1. Basically, you can't leave the house for any reason, but if you have to, then you can.
2. Masks are useless, but maybe you have to wear one, it can save you, it is useless, but maybe it is mandatory as well.
3. Stores are closed, except those that are open.
4. You should not go to hospitals unless you have to go there. Same applies to doctors, you should only go there in case of emergency, provided you are not too sick.
5. This virus is deadly but still not too scary, except that sometimes it actually leads to a global disaster.
6. Gloves won't help, but they can still help.
7. Everyone needs to stay HOME, but it's important to GO OUT.
8. There is no shortage of groceries in the supermarket, but there are many things missing when you go there in the evening, but not in the morning. Sometimes.
9. The virus has no effect on children except those it affects.
10. Animals are not affected, but there is still a cat that tested positive in Belgium in February when no one had been tested, plus a few tigers here and there…
11. You will have many symptoms when you are sick, but you can also get sick without symptoms, have symptoms without being sick, or be contagious without having symptoms.
12. In order not to get sick, you have to eat well and exercise, but eat whatever you have on hand and it's better not to go out.

13. It's better to get some fresh air, but you get looked at very wrong when you get some fresh air, and most importantly, you don't go to parks or walk. But don’t sit down, except that you can do that now if you are old, but not for too long or if you are pregnant (but not too old).
14. You can't go to retirement homes, but you have to take care of the elderly and bring food and medication.
15. If you are sick, you can't go out, but you can go to the pharmacy.
16. You can get restaurant food delivered to the house, which may have been prepared by people who didn't wear masks or gloves. But you have to have your groceries decontaminated outside for 3 hours. Pizza too?
17. Every disturbing article or disturbing interview starts with " I don't want to trigger panic, but…"
18. You can't see your mother or grandmother, but you can take a taxi and meet an older taxi driver.
19. You can walk around with a friend but not with your family if they don't live under the same roof.
20. You are safe if you maintain the appropriate social distance, but you can’t go out with friends or strangers at the safe social distance.
21. The virus remains active on different surfaces for two hours, no, four, maybe six, no, we didn't say hours, maybe days? But it takes a damp environment. Oh no, not necessarily.
22. The virus stays in the air - no, or yes, maybe, especially in a closed room, in one hour a sick person can infect ten, so if it falls, all our children were already infected at school before it was closed. But remember, if you stay at the recommended social distance in certain circumstances you should maintain a greater distance, which, studies show, the virus can travel further, maybe.
23. We count the number of deaths but we don't know how many people are infected as we have only tested so far those who were "mostly dead" to find out if that's what they will die of.
And anyone who dies during this fiasc will be considered they had the virus.
24. We have no treatment, except that there may be one that apparently is not too dangerous unless you take too much (which is the case with all medications).
25. We should stay locked up until the virus disappears, but it will only disappear if we achieve collective immunity, so when it circulates we must no longer be locked up for that.

Reactions: Great Post 5 | Funny 5


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## Gdurfey

Mr. Peet said:


> We feel very closely the same in many areas. I like using maps sometimes. In PA, it is ironic that 75- 95% of the land owners of the state vote one way, but often lose because the cites vote differently. Majority in one way, but not the other. When it changes and takes away freedoms on how families have been using their land, it creates division. The more this happens, the more polarized things are getting.
> 
> Our gas just dropped under $2.00....0.84 cents....Wow...



What gets me the maddest right now is the elimination of the Electoral College......ugh....Colorado is losing all of its roots because the Denver metro area, including Boulder, has no clue as to what built this state. My Texas friends are seeing the same down there; I lived outside of Boston for 4 years, saw it there, and then you have Norther VA which is, like all the other listed, a different world compared to the rest of the state.

On the virus front, my wife is hanging in there at the Children's hospital treating everything but that. Meningitis one night, head trauma (child fell off his horse and hit a rock), and regular flu. But she sees the stress every time she walks into the hospital!!!

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## Herb G.

Things are getting really bad here. They are building a 500 bed hospital in the convention center.
They have reopened several hospitals that were closed awhile back.

You have to wear a mask to enter any store now, and they will turn you away if you don't wear one.
My Mom is 86 and she hasn't left the house in over 6 weeks now. My brother is her care giver so he does all the shopping
and running around for her.
There is still no TP that I have been able to find.

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## Sprung

Gdurfey said:


> Children's hospital ... Meningitis



Man, that brings back some memories for me...

Hope your wife continues to hang in there!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## ripjack13

Gdurfey said:


> the elimination of the Electoral College..


Then California can run the USA....


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## Graybeard

Lot's of work ahead: https://www.promegaconnections.com/serological-assay-importance/


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## woodtickgreg

Our wonderful governor just extended the stay at home order till mid May. Is allowing garden centers to open and lawn companies to cut grass. I dont know if steel companies are going to open yet so I dont know if I'm going back to work beginning of May or middle of May. Waiting to here from my company. Cases are still rising and have not flat lined yet. Requesting that whenever you go out to the store you wear mask and gloves. I have been anyway because it's not that big a deal to do it, I wear them in my shop so I'm used to it.


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## ripjack13

Our guvna has issued an executive order for everyone to wear masks. People here are getting antsy and they dont want to stay home anymore, let alone wear a mask when they go out....

Reactions: Agree 1


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## woodtickgreg

Same here........


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## trc65

Masks in "public places" starting May 1. Non essential still closed until May 31, but essential business now includes golf courses and a few other types. 

Only cases around us are Smithfield plant employees and their families none of which have needed hospitalization. Plant is still open with more protection for workers. Next county over ( two miles from my door) has only had cases at the prison and a few random individuals from a week ago.

The two counties are rural/ agricultural with combined population of less than 80,000. So far, less than 25 cases for the two counties. People are definitely restless and the traffic I've seen in town when I go is very near normal levels.


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## woodtickgreg

Gas at Sam's club today is .89 cents a gallon.

Reactions: Like 2


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## trc65

Illinois is in about the top five for taxes(on anything and everything), our gas is at a low of $1.80.

A year ago, Illinois doubled the gas tax and it is now $0.38 per gallon. In addition, another $0.045 tax/gal goes to the local city. Add to that a $0.0875 sales tax for the state, county and city.

All of us in Illinois must sacrifice to help pay for the state pension fund which is at a $137 Billion deficit. A fund that has helped create millionaires, after they retire! Right now, pension fund contributions for the state consume 25% of general funds each year. We are also just one notch away from a credit rating of "junk" status.

To top all of that, our Gov wants to enact a progressive income tax this fall which he believes is just what the state needs to help it recover from the current mess, in spite of the fact that every economist has said that is the worst thing to do. This will increase the tax on everyone (even the lowest bracket), but will have larger increases for the wealthy.


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## Mr. Peet

woodtickgreg said:


> Gas at Sam's club today is .89 cents a gallon.



We were just at our Sam's club, $1.80 a gallon low grade, $2.10 for 93 octane. Masks are now required "in public", an item I have issue with. Why should you when you are on your own boat, hundreds of yards from anyone.?. Why should you if you are mowing your own lawn on your own property? 

Have they linked gun ownership with Covid yet? They will soon. Steel transport is open in PA. Each state has their own definition of "essential". We can hang out in GA, get a Tattoo and hair cut and talk about it some more...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## rob3232

Mr. Peet said:


> Masks are now required "in public"



For us it is required if you can not maintain 6' social distance from another person. Not so much for fish or grass....No tatoos for me in the future for now anyway.

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## JerseyHighlander

Make what you will of this.


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## rob3232

JerseyHighlander said:


> Make what you will of this.



Thanks for that... I of course I disagree with you and your posts. But I do respect you as a person and hope you are safe and your family and friends!


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## Mr. Peet

JerseyHighlander said:


> Make what you will of this.



So most everything that was said in that video is true, but we have to live by being calm and willing to accept others even with their mistakes.


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## woodtickgreg

Dang, I got called back to work, lol. I start next monday. I was enjoying being retired. Just a big tease was all that was. Back to counting the years till retirement, 7 years to go..........

Reactions: Like 2 | Sincere 2


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## rob3232

Good luck Greg!

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## JerseyHighlander

woodtickgreg said:


> Dang, I got called back to work, lol. I start next monday. I was enjoying being retired. Just a big tease was all that was. Back to counting the years till retirement, 7 years to go..........



Don't worry, there's always next flu season for everybody to get hysterical all over again. Been good to see your state has a pretty good understanding of how to enforce your liberty.

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## T. Ben

woodtickgreg said:


> Dang, I got called back to work, lol. I start next monday. I was enjoying being retired. Just a big tease was all that was. Back to counting the years till retirement, 7 years to go..........


Sorry to hear your going back to work.

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## Mr. Peet

Mr. Peet said:


> We just picked up a former truck driver for the firehouse tonight, trouble breathing. They don't have the quick strips here, will be a few days for results.



I should have followed up on this a few weeks ago. Bill is ok, but fighting viral pneumonia. Local grocer is delivering for him. Most of his friends are staying away until he is cleared by his physician to have company.

Reactions: Sincere 4


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## Ralph Muhs

trc65 said:


> Illinois is in about the top five for taxes(on anything and everything), our gas is at a low of $1.80.
> 
> A year ago, Illinois doubled the gas tax and it is now $0.38 per gallon. In addition, another $0.045 tax/gal goes to the local city. Add to that a $0.0875 sales tax for the state, county and city.
> 
> All of us in Illinois must sacrifice to help pay for the state pension fund which is at a $137 Billion deficit. A fund that has helped create millionaires, after they retire! Right now, pension fund contributions for the state consume 25% of general funds each year. We are also just one notch away from a credit rating of "junk" status.
> 
> To top all of that, our Gov wants to enact a progressive income tax this fall which he believes is just what the state needs to help it recover from the current mess, in spite of the fact that every economist has said that is the worst thing to do. This will increase the tax on everyone (even the lowest bracket), but will have larger increases for the wealthy.


I am a retired teacher from Illinois. For 26 years, a large chunk of my monthly salary was taken from me and deposited into an account to fund teachers’ retirements. The state of Illinois was to have deposited an amount into that fund, but it never happened fully. Only about 40 percent of the “required” amount was contributed. Illinois used the retirement money for all kinds of other things. Now the state is facing bankruptcy because of years of mismanagement. Like other teachers, I receive a monthly retirement believe me, it is not lucrative. I am far from being a millionaire

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## Graybeard

Ralph, I'm in the same boat only Wisconsin is one of the top rated retirement systems so no politician got at it - yet. I feel for those out of work but I'm afraid things will never be the same.

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## JerseyHighlander

Mr. Peet said:


> I should have followed up on this a few weeks ago. Bill is ok, but fighting viral pneumonia. Local grocer is delivering for him. Most of his friends are staying away until he is cleared by his physician to have company.


About four years ago, short story, I was put in an ICU with Mycoplasm pneumonia. It was interesting when people started coming in & out of my room with essentially, hazmat suits on... They did their best to kill me with "all the standard protocals" & as soon as I was re-hydrated enough, which was my primary problem, I signed myself out and left two days later. Did I say short story?
So, still getting into coughing fits so bad I would start vomiting in the middle of coughing... I found my own way & when I put it to work, was back out working on my truck twelve hours later, where before even trying to step outside the door into the cold air, my lungs would seize up.
#1 Amino Acid supplement N-Acetyl-Cystiene (NAC) - Clears the lungs of fluid & mucous insanely fast. Can't possibly do any harm.
#2 Vitamin D3 always to be taken with K2 & Boron. - Would have to take obscenely high amounts to cause harm
#3 Zinc & Copper, alternating doses. (one inhibits the absorption of the other when they are both present) - Most people are highly deficient & the sicker you are, the more you need.
#4 Chew on a couple of Clove buds 2-3 times a day, breathing deep through the mouth as you do.
#5 Turmeric root & Ginger root. Both outstanding anti-inflammatory. Take capsules, make tea, put powder in water and drink it, buy tinctured extract, it's not picky.
#6 Large doses of Vitamin C - I was taking 32 grams a day. Yes, 32K milligrams. 
#7 Potassium - Insanely important to the lungs. - 1 Quart of Coconut water a day - 2000 mg. 

I know, to many this sounds like Hocus Pocus (sp?) But, again, I was right as rain in no time flat. When I looked up Mycoplasm pneumonia, I found most people don't survive it. It killed a neighbor of mine a year later. Or maybe the hospital did, don't know.

Hope your friend does well.

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## Herb G.

Ralph Muhs said:


> I receive a monthly retirement believe me, it is not lucrative. I am far from being a millionaire


You & I are in the same boat. I busted my @ss for 35 years being an industrial electrician.
When I got hurt on the job back in 2012, I was promised a medical retirement, which meant it was tax free. It never came thru, and I was fed a line of b_chit long enuf to fertilize the Sinai desert. They haven't given me a effin dime yet, and they keep delaying my case in the hopes I die before it goes to court.
They told me I could take my regular retirement, which meant I had to pay 35% tax on it. F that to the max. I have paid enuf taxes in my life to build an aircraft carrier.
I hired a different lawyer 2 years ago, and he hasn't made much headway either.

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## ripjack13

Herb G. said:


> When I got hurt on the job back in 2012


I fell 15ft through a roof at work in 2014. My case just ended in January....I hope yours is soon.


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## ripjack13

Hows everyone doing lately?

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## trc65

Not much happening here. Almost all cases locally are related to the local Smithfield plant. Either workers or their families. Since the rapid increase in cases a couple of weeks ago (which corresponded to the start of testing). We've only seen a couple of new positives a week. No deaths locally, and a whopping total of 114 cases in our mostly rural county (~17,000 population). 

Illinois is opening up most businesses on Friday, with mandatory masks in stores and limiting people in stores. Restaurants and bars will be open, but, can only serve customers with outdoor seating. No inside dining or drinking.

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## woodtickgreg

Back to work in the fear pandemic but only 4 days a week. I rarely wear a mask unless I absolutely have to. It fogs up my glasses and I cant stand re breathing my own air. That in itself cant be healthy for you. I just keep my distance from people. Anybody try and buy a dust mask for your shop lately, good luck!

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## Herb G.

ripjack13 said:


> I fell 15ft through a roof at work in 2014. My case just ended in January....I hope yours is soon.


I ain't holding my breath buddy. I don't even have a tentative court date, because all the courts are closed until August 1st because of the pandemic.
Then they have to deal with a 6 month backlog on the immediate cases, like criminal, etc.

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## ripjack13

Phase 3 opening is starting up soon.

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## Mike1950

I have stayed away from this thread- I live in one of the United socialist states on west coast. Most news here just pisses me off. Our dictator announced this last week.





also he let theaters open. but no churches . but no matter- most theaters have gone out of biz.
Little Bavarian themed town to west Leavenworth- He made the venders go through a bunch of hoops- new permits equipment etc. to have dining on sidewalk. They spent the money with hope of saving part of season. as soon as they got up and running- The dictator changed his mind-no services on sidewalk. Now the city is bleeding like a stuck hog. No tax revenue. so they went in debt to buy parking meters to solve problem. of course there is no parking meter revenue cause all the biz are closed. so stupid- but you could not make this stuff up. But on the bright side- This summers accomplishments included giving up Downtown seattle to the lowlifes and scumbags, Chop or Chaz. Mayor called it the summer of love until they vandalized her house- then it was OMG. City council member gave the Keys to courthouse to the lowlifes. and we are number one in nation though. The Nigerians scammed the unemployment system out of 300$ million dollars....No in school school. Meanwhile 20 miles East in Idaho- wide open no COVID rules- Wyoming the same. Their numbers are as good as ours or better.... oh we were only state you could not fish in for a couple months- those slimy little suckers give ya the Covid . finally The dictator backed off on that one. Meanwhile in Portland oregon they rioted for 100 plus nights until the air got so bad they could not breath- but have resumed the festivities... But no worries- they haven not found my burl stash yet

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## Mike1950

plus the 6 in phase 2 to 8 in phase 3

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## Gdurfey

@Mike1950 , have they repealed the electoral college vote count yet like Colorado is trying to do?? We are not as bad as you, but we are a close third. Such a sad state of affairs...…. oh, sorry, for the first comment but my delete key is not working. That may be too political, and if so, moderators, strike it out. 

As I have stated, my loving wife is a nurse and she has totally beat me until I wear my mask and such. We are not going out as much, we did get to see her dad in a manner of speaking as Florida finally opened senior care facilities with a lot of restrictions. We understand; well, she does. And I am going to keep her happy and show that I am doing my part. Our office, US Air Force, requires masks in all hallways, open areas, to get into the building and such. Once I am at my desk it comes off. If someone comes into my office, they un-mask as we are across the desk from each other; or in the conference room we sit apart from each other. But Colorado continues to spike due to all levels of schools.

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## Mike1950

Gdurfey said:


> @Mike1950 , have they repealed the electoral college vote count yet like Colorado is trying to do?? We are not as bad as you, but we are a close third. Such a sad state of affairs...…. oh, sorry, for the first comment but my delete key is not working. That may be too political, and if so, moderators, strike it out.
> 
> As I have stated, my loving wife is a nurse and she has totally beat me until I wear my mask and such. We are not going out as much, we did get to see her dad in a manner of speaking as Florida finally opened senior care facilities with a lot of restrictions. We understand; well, she does. And I am going to keep her happy and show that I am doing my part. Our office, US Air Force, requires masks in all hallways, open areas, to get into the building and such. Once I am at my desk it comes off. If someone comes into my office, they un-mask as we are across the desk from each other; or in the conference room we sit apart from each other. But Colorado continues to spike due to all levels of schools.



just went from here to Denver. quite a contrast. hard to understand how rules are so diverse with not much difference in results.
I think Supreme court struck down Electoral college thing. so The dictator dropped it. I have not followed Colorado/ Covid but have ore-Idaho-Wa and Mt. Ore and Wa are insane... 
I travel I-84 in the Gorge quite often. the semi traffic tells me the rest of the country is cooking. But we are still in hold pattern. I will have to compare Co. charts to ours.

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## gman2431

There won't be much of michigan left after "this" is over.... I feel terrible for all the businesses going under, when just a year ago, they couldn't open fast enough. With winter coming, and what little tourism we got this summer,, its only gonna get worse...

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## Mike1950

Gdurfey said:


> @Mike1950 , have they repealed the electoral college vote count yet like Colorado is trying to do?? We are not as bad as you, but we are a close third. Such a sad state of affairs...…. oh, sorry, for the first comment but my delete key is not working. That may be too political, and if so, moderators, strike it out.
> 
> As I have stated, my loving wife is a nurse and she has totally beat me until I wear my mask and such. We are not going out as much, we did get to see her dad in a manner of speaking as Florida finally opened senior care facilities with a lot of restrictions. We understand; well, she does. And I am going to keep her happy and show that I am doing my part. Our office, US Air Force, requires masks in all hallways, open areas, to get into the building and such. Once I am at my desk it comes off. If someone comes into my office, they un-mask as we are across the desk from each other; or in the conference room we sit apart from each other. But Colorado continues to spike due to all levels of schools.


we have no in school school at any level. our numbers-graph are comparable. Idaho and Mt have all school open- and Idaho has repealed all covid restrictions. numbers are comparable...


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## woodtickgreg

We also have a communist dictator governor in mi.

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## woodtickgreg

Our governor is a communist dictator and she has a bunch of her cronies in power. I just heard on the radio that a militia group had plans to kidnap her and transport her to another state where they planned to try her for treason. Im almost sorry they where not successful. Its a sign of the times, people are tired of the b.s. and starting to take a stand against the commies and looters etc.
I fear that the results of this election could trigger a civil war. I've heard a lot of people talking about it, scary times for sure........

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Maverick

I feel your pain Greg. Here in Kommifornia they still have so many things shut down. Our dumb governor yesterday sent a notice out that if you go to a restaurant that is open, wear your mask *in between bites!!! smh....* I am fortunate that I work from home so personally I have not been affected too much, I just find it comical how the states that have shut down the most (CA and NY) but have the highest numbers but then turn around and point the finger elsewhere. ( I am trying very hard to keep comments somewhat generic and not be overly political)

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## Herb G.

I don't know about you, but I am effin fed up with these whining azz parents crying about their kids can't play sports, etc.
If you want to cry about getting your kids out of the house, you should not have had them in the 1st place.
All they show on the local news are parents that basically want their kids to be guinea pigs & go back to an unsafe environment just so they can get them out of the house.
Well, man up, put your big boy pants on & effin deal with it.
You had them, now it's time to take care of them.


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## Mike1950

Maverick said:


> I feel your pain Greg. Here in Kommifornia they still have so many things shut down. Our dumb governor yesterday sent a notice out that if you go to a restaurant that is open, wear your mask *in between bites!!! smh....* I am fortunate that I work from home so personally I have not been affected too much, I just find it comical how the states that have shut down the most (CA and NY) but have the highest numbers but then turn around and point the finger elsewhere. ( I am trying very hard to keep comments somewhat generic and not be overly political)


hard not to get political. Your governor is in a west coast contest as to who can come up with dumbest rules.

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## Mike1950

Herb G. said:


> I don't know about you, but I am effin fed up with these whining azz parents crying about their kids can't play sports, etc.
> If you want to cry about getting your kids out of the house, you should not have had them in the 1st place.
> All they show on the local news are parents that basically want their kids to be guinea pigs & go back to an unsafe environment just so they can get them out of the house.
> Well, man up, put your big boy pants on & effin deal with it.
> You had them, now it's time to take care of them.


you are kidding- kids should be outside- playing. children have ZERO fatality rate. if you are worried about yourself- wear a mask- stay inside.... but do not put onus of protecting adults on kids... Our F...........ing Governor threw first pitch for Mariners but banned sports for kids. sorry- chit fer brains comes to mind first.... PS Vitamin D is good for immune system- go outside.....

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## Mike1950

PS I knew the ol guy should not have have looked back at this thread......

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## gman2431

To me its a pretty basic concept.... if you are in any way uncomfortable, compromised, or feel other. STAY HOME!!! In the mean time, let the rest of us live our lives and take the calculated risks we are willing to take. 

And no my risk taking will not effect you if you follow your own belief of staying home!! 

Pretty simple to me...

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## trc65

What should have been a relatively straightforward response to the virus has turned into a political $**storm because of the election year.

Illinois has been ruled by our Chicago governor, and the whole state has had to pay for the sins of that lovely city. I live 30 miles from the Iowa border, and the two states are a direct contrast between red/blue states. Iowa is successfully playing high school sports with only a few local infections of athletes. While this has resulted I some forfeits, no large outbreak has occurred. In Illinois, no sports, and many school districts are still doing remote "learning".

In my county of 50,000 people, all districts but one are doing some sort of in person teaching. My BIL teaches at that one district. He teaches vocational classes in auto mechanics and small engines. Right now, fewer than 25% of his enrolled students bother to show up for "classes", but that doesnt count against the districts' attendance (and state funding), because teachers are forbidden from taking attendance, rather students self report their daily atendance!! I'll just let that sink in for a second....

Several of the students he was supposed to have this year have dropped out. These are students that he has worked to keep in school just so they could have some marketable skills, or qualify for the auto mechanics courses at the junior college once they graduate. While he is trying his best to keep students engaged, it is a losing proposition.

The building trades and woodworking teacher has had all students drop his classes that normally have a waiting list for enrollment. That teacher is spending his time helping computer techs repairing computers and helping students with login problems.

This situation will most likely continue until next year as the real problem is the superintendent's pet project of combining all students from grades 7-12 into one building is about six months behind in construction. Construction that started 4 months late because the superintdent's plans kept changing and he wouldnt finalize plans.

Back in May, I was talking to a retired Industrial Arts teacher who lives down the road from us. He said it would take 10 years for our educational system to recover from this, and I thought that was a little bit of an exaggeration. The more I see things develop, I'm starting to think he is probably correct......

And, if you have bothered to read this whole post, you can now each give yourself a gold star!

Reactions: Like 2 | Thank You! 1 | Agree 3 | Sincere 1


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## Wildthings

So that's a "virtual" gold star! Correct?

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## trc65

Wildthings said:


> So that's a "virtual" gold star! Correct?


It doesn't have to be..... 

In this crazy world aren't we all supposed to be able to define our own reality?

If you believe it's a real gold star, who are the rest of us to tell you it is not?

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## Sprung

Tim, my in-laws don't live too far north of you - in Savanna, IL - and it's the same thing there. My wife is very glad I saved her from life in Illinois when we got married.

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## Herb G.

Mike1950 said:


> children have ZERO fatality rate.



That's not true at all. Several children have died from the virus. A 9 year old in Florida just died from it recently..


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## Mike1950

Herb G. said:


> That's not true at all. Several children have died from the virus. A 9 year old in Florida just died from it recently..


Yes a few kids die- most with major underlying problems- severe obesity is a major factor. Damn little brats should have been outside more. 
but by your standard- we never go outside. Horrible idea. Little kids get sick all the time- just building up their immune system. Hell our parents sent us to friends to get measles. why cause it was better to get young than old....
While relatively rare, some children die from flu each year. Since *2004-2005*, flu-related deaths in children reported to CDC during regular flu seasons have ranged from 37 to 188 deaths.
They die from the flu also. People die.
There were 150 million people in US in 1958- 150,000 died from the new strain of flu that year. we had almost no freeways- almost no plane travel. Mom says we- my sister and I got really sick that year. did we go to Doc- hell no that costs money.
The 1968 pandemic was caused by an influenza A (H3N2) virus comprised of two genes from an avian influenza A virus, including a new H3 hemagglutinin, but also contained the N2 neuraminidase from the 1957 H2N2 virus. It was first noted in the United States in September 1968. The estimated number of deaths was 1 million worldwide and about 100,000 in the United States. Most excess deaths were in people 65 years and older. The H3N2 virus continues to circulate worldwide as a seasonal influenza A virus. Seasonal H3N2 viruses, which are associated with severe illness in older people, undergo regular antigenic drift. 
what did we do- Woodstock
I am 70 healthy - have purpose-engaged with family and life. and am going to continue to do the same. Have I spent more time inside-Hell no. Do my children/grand children see me cowering in fear in the basement -HELL NO. ya only have so many years- each of us have to make their own choices and path and I for one am not going to let that freedom of choice be taken away from me.

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## Maverick



Reactions: Agree 3


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## Mike1950

Scientists from three top schools argue that building up herd immunity among the population while keeping others safe via "Focused Protection" is how society should deal with the pandemic, not lockdowns.

Dr. Martin Kulldorff of Harvard, Dr. Sunetra Gupta of Oxford, and Dr. Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford are all experts in infectious diseases and public health. They met recently in Great Barrington, Massachusetts, and penned what they call "The Great Barrington Declaration," which offers an alternative approach to managing the COVID-19 crisis.

Arguing that the lockdowns "are producing devastating effects on short- and long-term public health," they said more harm than good is happening. "Lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings, and deteriorating mental health" are among the impacts on society, they wrote.

And, the trio noted, science shows us that the elderly and people with preexisting conditions are at far greater risk than anyone else.

"We know that vulnerability to death from COVID-19 is more than a thousand-fold higher in the old and infirm than the young. Indeed, for children, COVID-19 is less dangerous than many other harms, including influenza," they wrote.

and I am not the only one that feels this way...

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## Mike1950

Have not had a rant in a long time buttttttt........ Letter coming from our dictator- the one that was at huge dinner party last week- no masks, grrrr


According to the letter, sent out by President and CEO of the WFIA, Tammie Hetrick, Governor Inslee's restrictions will include: 


1.) All indoor social gathering prohibited (the WFIA letter states: "It is unknown how this will be enforced"). 

2.) Restaurants and bars will be closed for indoor service, while outdoor service is limited to 5 people. To-go orders won't be affected. 

3.) 25% maximum occupancy for all retail. According to the WFIA letter, this includes grocery and convenience stores. 

4.) Delis and salad bars will be to-go orders. 

5.) "The Governor will also be updating guidance on mask restrictions, which will clearly indicate that stores and other customer-facing businesses will have a choice to restrict all non-mask wearers in the store and provide other options for providing food and other essential products."

no indoor service- max. of 5 outdoors ----- WHATTT It is winter.... just put the restaurants that survived first round out of biz. grrrrr

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## Mike1950

and retail stores Christmas is their big season--- bye to a bunch more stores.....

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## ripjack13

I hope there's a revolution. I'm ready. We need to purge the partys....

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## Herb G.

It's been like that here since last March.

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## Gdurfey

Following Colorado’s example......actually, yours may be worse but because of our numbers we are headed back down this road.

My office building essentially shut us down again. This is our host organization/customer, so we comply. But we don’t do much work without being in the office....

I can’t even imagine being a small business owner or having a restaurant in these times.....

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mr. Peet

We have a few small diners that have "Enter at own risk, masks not required" in town. It has been a steady of normalcy for many and a huge help for peace of mind. They have reduced capacity and met the social distance set-up, but allow it to be honored as customers desire. Once again, city rules trying to be applied to the country and indirectly putting restrictions on God. Those that are truly secure in christian faith have nothing to fear, but those secure in the ways of the world have money to acquire and greed to honor.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mike1950

Herb G. said:


> It's been like that here since last March.


obviously it is working??? I remember 2 weeks to flatten curve

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Mike1950

1958- 150 million people 150,000 deaths. lot worse- and world was not as mobile then. you know what we did- Ma said drink your juice. dad said take the garbage out-fresh air will do you good....

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike1950

oregon Gov. No outdoor pool use- is she a Moron- nobody uses pool in PNW in winter....


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## Mike1950

Kidding aside I actually have been hiding under my bed. Quivering in fear. But my quilt guy called me. He needs money. Looked up rules. OMG they are going to shut down restaurants and restrict travel the 18th.  on the road again. yehaw...

Reactions: Like 3 | Way Cool 2


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## Mike1950

Also 1958 we had freeway here about 10 miles. To find more you had to go 300 miles west to seattle.. very different world. Were we scared no we were working and going to school. Building our lifes.....

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## woodtickgreg

Mask are mandated anywhere here in Michigan by our commie governor. So called cases are on the rise and hospitals are claimed to be overwhelmed. Yet very few people I know have had it or know of anyone that has had it. I know of a few people that had it, one older person with other health issues had it and died. But most people recover from it. Not worth lockdowns on businesses to put them out of business. Sporadic shortages of items in stores here so it has been difficult to stay stocked up on the basics at times. I'm a less than load truck driver, I have to put a mask on when at a business to make a delivery or pick up, some places wont even let me in the building or on the dock, cant use the restrooms at some places. Some have set up porta John's outside for the drivers, most haven't so I pee behind a lot of bushes and dumpsters. It's being blown way out of proportion in my opinion. Is the disease real? Yes I agree that it is, but millions aren't dying from it, it isn't the plague. There are treatments for it that are being ignored and kept quiet by the nwo. Me I just eat healthy real food, take my vitamins and supplements as I have for the last 30 years or so and try and excersize daily to stay reasonably fit for an older man. Seems to be working for me so far. If I get it I'm sure I'll survive as I dont have any real health issues. I dont like the new normal that has been forced upon me, I just have to deal with it. So I try and stay away from people, mask up when I have to go in a store, or when I'm at work. Hate wearing the mask but I have to deal with it. Foggs my glasses up and I cant stand rebreathing my own spent air, that cant be healthy either.
Rant over.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## Mike1950

we have had mandatory masks since june- rates have gone up

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Ray D

Pretty serious here in Florida as well. We have only eaten out twice since March. I feel real sorry for all the small businesses here. I know about 20 people who have had it, three of them I work with. Two of the cases I know of were fatal.... husband and wife. Bothe were over 70 but in decent health.

Reactions: Sincere 4


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## Nubsnstubs

Mike1950 said:


> Restaurants and bars will be closed for indoor service, while outdoor service is limited to 5 people.


Since the government is making the rules about how to conduct business these days, why don't these people affected get together and compile data on what their business incomes were at the same time for the last 2 years. Then show what their incomes are after all this crap started. Get enough signatures from business owners to force the government to make up the losses.

Of course, they would possibly raise taxes to cover the losses of the business owners. Then we could watch and see who the biggest complainers are. It would more than likely be the one condoning this crap. My 2 cents.



woodtickgreg said:


> Hate wearing the mask but I have to deal with it. Foggs my glasses up and I cant stand rebreathing my own spent air, that cant be healthy either.


Check this out. I've been using the one on the right for 4 months now. I have no clue where I got it from as I have always gotten the 3M 8511 pictured on the left. The 8511 is the last one I have and I keep it in my truck for when I'm working away from home. I will at least have some type of dust protection. Notice how the bands have pretty much deteriorated. 



Here is a picture of the inside. Pretty disgusting, but both do keep the dust out of my nostrils. Notice the band on the right mask. It broke, and I punched a hole though the mask and tied a knot. it works, but I hate the exhaled breath fogging my glasses, plus it burns my eyes. 


I called my local US senator, a dem, to complain about not having any DUST masks available for the construction, manufacturing and other hazardous industries. Whoever answered the phone, said "I'll get back to you in a couple days". Sure nuff, he did call back and said, 'There is a national mandate for all masks to go towards medical. There is nothing we can do about your complaint". FK, the office I called was a US Senators office. THEY are the ones who make the laws. You would think that they would say that OSHA has a say in this since OSHA has penalized numerous businesses because they let their employees wear or not wear a mask. They must comply, but now, that doesn't matter. I'm starting to rant incoherently, so, I'm done. ............ ......... Jerry (in Tucson

Reactions: Agree 1 | Sincere 2


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## Mike1950

Both are over 70 in great health. Have eaten in 6 states. Will again tomorrow. Will not again after tomorrow. They are stopping that. 
As of yesterday we were not supposed to have gathering of more than 6. With exception of a wake. We are expecting our pet turkey to die next week. Wake is Thursday. Max of 30 attending.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Funny 8


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## woodtickgreg

I have a few of the mask with the exhale valve that I keep for my shop when sanding. I can't get them anymore. I use disposable N95 mask with ear loops for work, I wear them for a few days before I pitch them and get a clean one. Can't stand wearing them because I don't like rebreathing my own air and they fog my glasses, especially now that its getting colder here.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Herb G.

woodtickgreg said:


> Can't stand wearing them because I don't like rebreathing my own air .


Try some Scope...

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Funny 5


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## JerseyHighlander

Have not worn a mask since this whole scam began, will not do so under any circumstances.
Anyone thinking they are going to dictate what I will do on my own land & in my own home, best be ready to die for their convictions. 
Here in New Jersey we are making ready to arrest and remove our governor for violation of his oath of office and crimes against the people of New Jersey. 
You all may find this interesting. I encourage you to join, get educated and become active in your county. https://www.nationallibertyalliance.org/action-against-judiciary

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ray D

My place of employment requires masks at all times. We’ve been wearing them since April. I can’t say I enjoy wearing them but I’ve become used to them.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mike1950

I love the Oregon Governor's first sentence.


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## Mike1950



Reactions: Funny 4


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## JerseyHighlander

Governors trying to assert some fraudulent authority over ANY "private" gathering, is full blown tyranny. They have no constitutional authority of any kind to do any such thing. Any attempt at enforcement should be charged in a Federal Court under USC Title 18 ss. 241 & 242 https://www.justice.gov/crt/deprivation-rights-under-color-law
Deprivation of Rights under Color of Law is Capital Felony Treason. There's going to be a good old fashioned public hanging sooner or later.


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## Gdurfey

So, my work went to a drastic restriction on occupancy again. I am telling my folks to not expe expansion until 1 February: in spike now, 2 weeks to flatten curve takes us to thanksgiving, spike 10 days later, 2 weeks to flatten curve, Christmas, 1 week, New Years, spike, 2 weeks to flatten curve......puts you essentially at 1 February.

not that I was ever any good at logic......

Reactions: Like 2


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## Maverick

Don’t get me started. Here in Komifornia our dictator (whom some call a governor) has already been told by the courts that his executive orders are unconstitutional. If masks are so effective then why release over 8000 prisoners early? Why is it ok for his kids to go to a private school but public schools remain closed? Why are protesters allowed to scream in peoples face without repercussions but churches are supposed to stay closed and refrain from singing? If restaurants have to stay closed why was it OK for him to attend a big fancy birthday dinner party last week with his cronies....but we are only allowed to have no more than three families for Thanksgiving? I could go on and on on the lunacy and hypocrisy of the media and politicians.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## sprucegum

Our RINO governor has slapped on a bunch of new restrictions. The stupidest one is that 2 or more friends cannot go for a walk or a hike together unless they wear masks and stay 6 feet apart but it is fine if they ride in the same car or dine at the same table at a restaurant. But at least he has decided that we need to find all of the undocumented workers in the state and give them all $1200 because the were missed in the first stimulus, most of them are working on dairy farms and have housing, food, and a paycheck every week. I have had the measles, chicken pox, mumps, swine flue, and mere colds and flues than I can count. Maybe this one will kill me but I'm hoping not.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Mike1950

Maverick said:


> Don’t get me started. Here in Komifornia our dictator (whom some call a governor) has already been told by the courts that his executive orders are unconstitutional. If masks are so effective then why release over 8000 prisoners early? Why is it ok for his kids to go to a private school but public schools remain closed? Why are protesters allowed to scream in peoples face without repercussions but churches are supposed to stay closed and refrain from singing? If restaurants have to stay closed why was it OK for him to attend a big fancy birthday dinner party last week with his cronies....but we are only allowed to have no more than three families for Thanksgiving? I could go on and on on the lunacy and hypocrisy of the media and politicians.


Only 5 here if living in same house for thanksgiving.


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## Tom Smart

Mike1950 said:


> Kidding aside I actually have been hiding under my bed. Quivering in fear. But my quilt guy called me. He needs money. Looked up rules. OMG they are going to shut down restaurants and restrict travel the 18th.  on the road again. yehaw...
> 
> View attachment 196174


Quilt guy?! I need a quilt guy! 

Come to think of it I guess that’d be you, Mike.

Reactions: Like 2


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## trc65

Illinois is divided into regional zones and right now all zones are supposed to be closed to indoor dining and bars closed. Right after the Gov announced the closing in our area, the mayor of the closest town, along with the police chief, and head of the cv task force all announced that no enforcement would take place. They said it was a health issue, not a criminal issue, so police wouldn't respond to complaints. Said to refer all complaints to the health dept, which is too busy testing and contact tracing to bother. 

Most of the schools that had some face to face are closing down until two weeks after Thanksgiving, assuming that families will get together and some spread will occur, but infections will be over by then.

The Sunday before Halloween most of the family was at nieces house for pumpkin carving and dinner, the following day, niece tested positive with mild symptoms for two days. Nobody (except her husband and kids) had any symptoms, including my 84 yo mother.

My nephew, his wife and 5 kids were supposed to come home from Wyoming for thanksgiving, but that is up in the air yet, not because of covid, but because of other health issues his wife is dealing with. We are all bummed as we haven't seen them for a year, and being in the Air Force (in a critical job that few others are trained in) getting time to travel, and approval to travel is difficult. It may be a moot point though as military may start restricting travel again.

Reactions: Sincere 2


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## Mike1950

Wife is a rule follower, but cooking for family gatherings is one of her greatest joys in life. She will cook for 30 on Thanksgiving. And most of the work. Table will have linens and freshly polished silverware. My fingers will be l
Black. Mother will be there she is only 90. This is life. You get no guarantees. In June we had a little baby shower. 50 people from all over. Mom 90 ex MIL 92. Only person that wore a mask was 65. Everyone has to decide themselves...

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Sincere 2


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## Mr. Peet

Mike1950 said:


> View attachment 196187



You saying it was grader than...

Reactions: Funny 1


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## SubVet10

Mike1950 said:


> Both are over 70 in great health. Have eaten in 6 states. Will again tomorrow. Will not again after tomorrow. They are stopping that.
> As of yesterday we were not supposed to have gathering of more than 6. With exception of a wake. We are expecting our pet turkey to die next week. Wake is Thursday. Max of 30 attending.


And "protests." No max attendance limits for dispensing molotov cocktails. So eerie to see Farmer's Market empty. The upside in the Republic of Texas is that local judges and even the Governor have been sued dozens of times. And most of the Sherriffs went on record as the mandates are illegal - it is up to a business to decide their precautions. 
Inslee is a tyrant. Plain and simple. It is way past time that WA should be carved into 3 separate States.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## sprucegum

Our Thanksgiving will be small. Most of the older generation is gone or in a nursing home. Our daughter is a RN working in Maine and is not allowed to leave the state because of her job. That leaves our 2 boys and their families so 8 is it. Governor said we need to wear masks and social distance. I've got a middle finger for that idea, I could go into my annual turkey coma and suffocate with mask on.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Mr. Peet

Lost a classmate to covid this morning. They say one of the strains has a higher risk of stroke associated, but not yet defined with studies. He was a little overweight and loved to sing and dance. 

New York Cuomo has asked our governor to join him in shut-down after Thanksgiving.

They repeat the line my mask protects you and yours me, yet the CDC has on their site that the virus is so small it easily passes through many masks including the N95, thus advise a face shield as well since it gets in through the eyes easily. High school and college math both say, flatten the curve is still the same volume just over adjusted variables, so same amount of people will get it, just slow the rate to allow hospitals to handle more cases to save more lives. 

Working with the medical field as a first responder, I am sickened to hear many times over that they try to claim as many covid cases and deaths as possible to file for as much federal aid as possible. For the employee owned hospitals, like giving yourself bonuses. I realize not all workers do this, just sad to hear so many, many say that they are indirectly forced along those lines.

Mom says, she knows her God and when he calls she will go. If everyone had such faith, the mandates would have no need, the curve would spike, the time of trial shorten, the health of a nation improve, but who wants that?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Sincere 3


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## Mike1950

Mr. Peet said:


> Lost a classmate to covid this morning. They say one of the strains has a higher risk of stroke associated, but not yet defined with studies. He was a little overweight and loved to sing and dance.
> 
> New York Cuomo has asked our governor to join him in shut-down after Thanksgiving.
> 
> They repeat the line my mask protects you and yours me, yet the CDC has on their site that the virus is so small it easily passes through many masks including the N95, thus advise a face shield as well since it gets in through the eyes easily. High school and college math both say, flatten the curve is still the same volume just over adjusted variables, so same amount of people will get it, just slow the rate to allow hospitals to handle more cases to save more lives.
> 
> Working with the medical field as a first responder, I am sickened to hear many times over that they try to claim as many covid cases and deaths as possible to file for as much federal aid as possible. For the employee owned hospitals, like giving yourself bonuses. I realize not all workers do this, just sad to hear so many, many say that they are indirectly forced along those lines.
> 
> Mom says, she knows her God and when he calls she will go. If everyone had such faith, the mandates would have no need, the curve would spike, the time of trial shorten, the health of a nation improve, but who wants that?


Sorry for your loss. In the beginning they were doing studies in iceland. Had shut down travel and was easier to track back to source. If I remember right Italy had worst strain. Huge Chinese sweat shop work force there. So label on garmet says made in italy...


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## vegas urban lumber

just read an article about itally and covid. they were doing lung cancer studies in september and november of 2019. went back to those samples to find at least several cases of covid antibodies present in lung tissue samples taken in october of 2019. article states that covid was obviously present there no later than end of september 2019









Researchers find coronavirus was circulating in Italy earlier than thought


The new coronavirus was circulating in Italy in September 2019, a study by the National Cancer Institute (INT) of the Italian city of Milan shows, signaling that it might have spread beyond China earlier than thought. The World Health Organization has said the new coronavirus and COVID-19, the...




www.yahoo.com


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## Arn213

That is 


Mike1950 said:


> Sorry for your loss. In the beginning they were doing studies in iceland. Had shut down travel and was easier to track back to source. If I remember right Italy had worst strain. Huge Chinese sweat shop work force there. So label on garmet says made in italy...



My brother works in the Fashion Industry here in NYC (Garment District) to a very well known fashion group. The “Made in Italy” topic controversy is nothing new and the fashion industry is well aware of that situation..........yet it continues.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Nubsnstubs

Mr. Peet said:


> You saying it was grader than...


Don't you mean "Grater"? .............. Jerry (in Tucson)


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## FranklinWorkshops

I found some KN95 masks on Amazon recently in a 20 pk for $32. Now they seem to be sold out and the price has gone up.


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## DLJeffs

Mike1950 said:


> oregon Gov. No outdoor pool use- is she a Moron- nobody uses pool in PNW in winter....


YES! I read Oregon, Wash and California governors all got together and decided on a similar set of rules and restrictions. A total single digit IQ in that meeting.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## DLJeffs

Mike1950 said:


> Kidding aside I actually have been hiding under my bed. Quivering in fear. But my quilt guy called me. He needs money. Looked up rules. OMG they are going to shut down restaurants and restrict travel the 18th.  on the road again. yehaw...
> 
> View attachment 196174


Bring us back some nice quilting.


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## Maverick

DLJeffs said:


> YES! I read Oregon, Wash and California governors all got together and decided on a similar set of rules and restrictions. A total single digit IQ in that meeting.



I have told my wife I keep getting this vision in my head of the gov and his cronies sitting around his office (sans masks) rubbing their hands together and giggling as they say....”what can we make them do this week?”

Reactions: Agree 4 | Funny 1


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## trc65

FranklinWorkshops said:


> I found some KN95 masks on Amazon recently in a 20 pk for $32. Now they seem to be sold out and the price has gone up.



When I needed a mask early on in this mess, I just used my half face respirator with P100 filters. Just bought some replacement filters for it a couple of weeks ago, at normal prices, on Amazon.

And yes, I know "they" say not to use them as exhaled air is not filtered, but I'm not wearing it to protect others, I'm wearing it to protect myself!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mr. Peet

Nubsnstubs said:


> Don't you mean "Grater"? .............. Jerry (in Tucson)



Had a 't', changed to 'd' feeling it had more Merica sound to it.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Mike1950

Our Gov- no indoor private gatherings with people that are not part of that household- unless quarantined for 14 Days. Now he did not say you could not have Thanksgiving- but he said this on the 15th... I will follow the profanity rules And not say what I really think of the worthless SOB. and what is saddest is he just won 65% of the vote- of course that is 3 of 40 some counties.....

Reactions: Like 1 | EyeCandy! 1


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## sprucegum

vegas urban lumber said:


> just read an article about itally and covid. they were doing lung cancer studies in september and november of 2019. went back to those samples to find at least several cases of covid antibodies present in lung tissue samples taken in october of 2019. article states that covid was obviously present there no later than end of september 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Researchers find coronavirus was circulating in Italy earlier than thought
> 
> 
> The new coronavirus was circulating in Italy in September 2019, a study by the National Cancer Institute (INT) of the Italian city of Milan shows, signaling that it might have spread beyond China earlier than thought. The World Health Organization has said the new coronavirus and COVID-19, the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com



I'm pretty sure it was in this country a long time before they found it. Chinese didn't tell us about it until they had to. Call me cynical but I think it was intentional.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mike1950

sprucegum said:


> I'm pretty sure it was in this country a long time before they found it. Chinese didn't tell us about it until they had to. Call me cynical but I think it was intentional.


they do not have our nor anybody else's best interests in mind...
I am not a conspiracy theory person but this whole thing stinks.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Wildthings

My son works at a chemical plant along the Houston Ship channel and they had a plant wide 30 day turnaround back in January. Over 450 contractors in the site doing work. At one point there was over 200 people out sick. My son didn't get sick but some of his coworkers did. One ended up in the hospital with pneumonia. The word at the time was it was not the flu and they didn't know what it was other than a nasty bug. 
What do I think?? Rona was here

Oh if you are wondering the turnaround took 42 days to complete

Reactions: Like 1


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## sprucegum

We all had a mystery bug in February. It came on fast and some people were sick for a couple weeks. I was down for 2 days and felt like crap for about 2 more. My son went to work in the morning feeling fine and was home in bed by noon. He went back to work in a couple days but had a bad cough for days.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Nubsnstubs

In December last year, a friends 2 grand daughters, ages 4 and 5 were weirdly sick for about 4-5 days. Docs had no clue except stay indoors and get plenty of rest. My friend said he's s never seen anything like it........ Jerry (in Tucson)

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## JLTibbetts

Mike1950 said:


> Both are over 70 in great health. Have eaten in 6 states. Will again tomorrow. Will not again after tomorrow. They are stopping that.
> As of yesterday we were not supposed to have gathering of more than 6. With exception of a wake. We are expecting our pet turkey to die next week. Wake is Thursday. Max of 30 attending.


My condolences on the loss of your bird. Seems to be an epidemic of some sorts :)

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## gman2431

The only people I know who got covid are the mask advocates... wow that worked great for ya didn't it!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## sprucegum

The biggest outbreak in the state right now came from a huge halloween drinking party of younger people. I hear by the grapevine a infected couple who knew to they were infected went anyway. You can't fix stupid but it's good for herd immunity. One of our friends does child care for one of the party goers and now she has it. We talked by phone yesterday and she seems to be recovering at home.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## ripjack13

sprucegum said:


> We all had a mystery bug in February. It came on fast and some people were sick for a couple weeks. I was down for 2 days and felt like crap for about 2 more. My son went to work in the morning feeling fine and was home in bed by noon. He went back to work in a couple days but had a bad cough for days.



I'm pretty sure my wife n I had it in Dec/Jan last year. I had it first, I felt horrible for 3 weeks, and coughed the entire time, 24/7. I ate cough drops a bag a day.... The wife went to the doc's and got some stuff for it, she was good in about 2 weeks, but it threw her for a loop for about 2 weeks before.
She also works in a home for ABI patients, and the staff there are a bunch of F****n morons. They had covid there 3 times already in the house, including the staff, and she's fine still, but she's real pissed about it though. Even her bosses are morons. One of em just got tested positive for it last week, and showed up at her house for a meeting and didn't tell anyone!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Sincere 1


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## William Tanner

Those clowns need a visit from Tony Soprano.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## rob3232

Not all mask wearers are the same


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## TimR

Well, look on the bright side for those in states with legal cannabis...you can always just say WTF, and mellow out at home. Although you might need to stock up on snacks!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Mike1950

rob3232 said:


> Not all mask wearers are the same
> View attachment 196305


we went to masks in July- are rates are going up. so what do we do take same path with stricter rules. The threat of jail and fines. Now the homeless they for sure are following the rules--- yes sir ree bob.. no social distancing- no masks- no had wash. They are ok aOK now the protesters - oh they get a free ride also. just the working stiff gets the authoritarian treatment... Nothin but bulls.............

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Mike1950

TimR said:


> Well, look on the bright side for those in states with legal cannabis...you can always just say WTF, and mellow out at home. Although you might need to stock up on snacks!


oregon is now legal heroine - meth- magic mushrooms etc

Reactions: Agree 1


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## trc65

Illinois billionaire governor has just announced further closings and restrictions for all of us, including restricting Thanksgiving gatherings. When asked what his plans were for Thanksgiving, he replied they were going to Florida to enjoy the beach and warm weather!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## rob3232

No worries Mike. My point was that people are not following recommendations. Our rates are skyrocketing also. We follow guidelines and hope for the best after the vaccines are available. Seems like a small price to pay for us getting together next year.
Take care buddy! Hopefully you and your family fare well!

Reactions: Like 1


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## sprucegum

Our governor pretty much cancelled Thanksgiving . I'm seriously considering sending him a invitation .

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Maverick

Mike1950 said:


> we went to masks in July- are rates are going up. so what do we do take same path with stricter rules. The threat of jail and fines. Now the homeless they for sure are following the rules--- yes sir ree bob.. no social distancing- no masks- no had wash. They are ok aOK now the protesters - oh they get a free ride also. just the working stiff gets the authoritarian treatment... Nothin but bulls.............



So Mike, how do you really feel about all this!?!?!?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Maverick

trc65 said:


> Illinois billionaire governor has just announced further closings and restrictions for all of us, including restricting Thanksgiving gatherings. When asked what his plans were for Thanksgiving, he replied they were going to Florida to enjoy the beach and warm weather!



Yep, some of our politicians are going to Hawaii for some sort of conf meeting. The typical do as I say, not as I do. The commoners be damned.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mike1950

trc65 said:


> Illinois billionaire governor has just announced further closings and restrictions for all of us, including restricting Thanksgiving gatherings. When asked what his plans were for Thanksgiving, he replied they were going to Florida to enjoy the beach and warm weather!


POS

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Mike1950

Maverick said:


> So Mike, how do you really feel about all this!?!?!?


You really do not want to know what I think. Just tip of the iceberg...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Maverick

Mike1950 said:


> You really do not want to know what I think. Just tip of the iceberg...



I hear ya, I think you can probably figure out how I feel about it as well.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Maverick

Something to think about 
*
If the lockdowns worked the first time, why are we doing them again? If the lockdowns didn’t work the first time, why are we doing them again?*

Reactions: Agree 5


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## sprucegum

Maverick said:


> Something to think about
> 
> *If the lockdowns worked the first time, why are we doing them again? If the lockdowns didn’t work the first time, why are we doing them again?*


Is that not the definition of insanety? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

Reactions: Agree 8


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## woodtickgreg

sprucegum said:


> Is that not the definition of insanety? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?


That's because it has nothing to do with the disease. It's all about crippling the economy and controlling the people.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Mr. Peet

So a family member tested positive and we get to enjoy Thanksgiving at home. Never did it before as an adult, that I recall, so should be a good thing. My results come back by tomorrow. Hope to have it and get it done. They say most enjoy 90 days of not worrying about getting it after just having it. I contacted the state health board and asked, if a person has had it, went through the 14 day quarantine process, why do they need to wear a mask? Response was, no one has asked. A really awful response as I am sure many hundreds of people have asked. Then the response of, Likely no protective reason other than setting a good example for others to follow.

Pathetic, but when government is involved....

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Way Cool 1


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## sprucegum

It's a freaking airborne virus you can't stop it until you have immunity either from catching it or vaccine.

Reactions: Agree 6


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## Mike1950

sprucegum said:


> It's a freaking airborne virus you can't stop it until you have immunity either from catching it or vaccine.


Now we get the truth. You nailed it.

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## Mike1950

rob3232 said:


> No worries Mike. My point was that people are not following recommendations. Our rates are skyrocketing also. We follow guidelines and hope for the best after the vaccines are available. Seems like a small price to pay for us getting together next year.
> Take care buddy! Hopefully you and your family fare well!


Yes but your meme sort implies Trumpsters as being the problem. Ignoring months of looters-arsonists and thugs in the streets. None of which are social distancing. I recommend a trip To Portland Ore. Very liberal. The medians on the freeway exits and the green areas along freeways are tent cities-beyond your imagination. the trash- blocks out the ground in many places- city has a whole crew just hauling garbage. anything left behind with any perceived value has to be stored for a certain Time in case owner shows up. The smell- WOW!!! we went through portland a week ago- traffic was slowed. a late 2000 teens car was broke down along road. Marked by police to be towed. a homeless guy was there with his cart- full of stuff from inside car and he was breaking windows with a hammer. These are the real pictures the news should be showing. The park crappers destroying public and private property. But they are liberal crappers- which seems to have different rules...... It is disgusting..............

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## trc65

I am in the middle of my second quarantine after being around different family members who tested positive. In both cases, i was with family a day before they developed symptoms and were tested. 

Our quarantine rules are stay away from susceptible people and wear a mask! Our health department says 10 days after exposure, and no symptoms and we are fine. Masks are still mandated everywhere you go, so I'm not sure what quarantine even does.

Heath department also told family members that 24 hours without fever or any other significant symptom and you are good to do anything you want, no longer contagious.

Totality of BIL's symptoms were losing taste for a few hours the morning after he drank too many IPA beers for his birthday. Thought it was just the hops in the IPA killing his taste buds, but sister made him go get the brain probe and he tested positive. Never any fever, no other symptoms. 

Based on the health departments rules, he went 24 hrs with no fever or symptoms, so he was technically over it before he even received his positive results. But they told him to quarantine at home for 14 days.

Too many mixed messages giving contradictory "orders" that only make sense to the brainless masses too stupid to think for themselves. 

When BIL questioned health department about nonsensical "regulations" he was given the standard bureaucratic response "do what I tell you because those are the rules".

BTW, I've not had any symptoms after having close contact two different times, so no idea if I'm just healthy, a silent spreader, or had it and am now immune.....

Thanksgiving went from us hosting 17 people a week ago to the current plan of three people. At least we have a 21# turkey to cook, so lots of leftovers....

Reactions: Like 6 | Sincere 1


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## Mike1950

I do know getting it is no fun. Have a good friend in Provo. He is principal of a China/USA school in Provo. He is late 50s. Very healthy. Family over it. He is on day 20 and miserable....

Reactions: Sincere 3


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## trc65

I wish the medical experts would tell us more about what they know other than old, and other comorbidities are bad. There is something going on with certain people's physiology other than age, diabetes, etc. Is it blood type? Vitamin D levels? Or what?

I know 20+ people who have had it, and only two who had serious issues. 

One of the worst cases was a 29 y.o. who spent a couple days in ICU getting steroids and convalescent plasma. Released from hospital two days later. Young guy, healthy, in good shape. Among his contemporaries, several had it, but none with symptoms other than loss of taste. They all contracted it during an ill advised bachelor party.

The only other serious case is one of my contemporaries, a guy in his 50's. Obese, diabetic, smoker and heavy drinker, is now in ICU sedated, on a respirator, and is not expected to make it. If he does, will have serious debilitating issues for the rest of his life.

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## Herb G.

How many of you plan on getting the Covid vaccine once it's available for us regular Joe's ?


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## DLJeffs

I'll get it as soon as I possibly can because I hope it will appease people who make rules so i can travel to go fishing again.


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## trc65

Definitely will.

Two nieces already got the first dose ( both are nurses) and one sister got first shot as well. Sister works in home health care. The other day, the hospital called her office and said they had a few doses left over after finishing their staff, and since they can't refreeze it wondered if anyone there wanted it. Sister said she'd be there in 5 minutes!

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## Ralph Muhs

YES. ASAP


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## BangleGuy

I will wait a bit to see how it all turns out. I’m afraid we are chasing rainbows a little, with the vaccine taking 6-9 months to develop, another 6-9 months to distribute, and the virus having mutated at least once that we know of thus far in 2020. That said, the need to fly for travel will drive my timeline ( I have heard rumblings that it will be required for international travel at some point).

Here’s is a good one paragraph description of the normal flu vaccine design cycle and efficacy -From WebMD:

_Because flu viruses mutate constantly and the vaccine wears off over time, you can’t get vaccinated once and expect to be covered for years, as you can with other diseases. The vaccine must be changed each year, in hopes of matching the ever-mutating viruses. And that’s been a challenge. On average, it’s been 40% effective, meaning it’s prevented illness 40% of the time. Since health officials started tracking it in 2003, effectiveness has varied from year to year, ranging from a low of 10% in 2004-05 to a high of 60% in 2010-11._

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## Mr. Peet

Well, once they finish the animal testing and the results are posted on human safety (expected in June 2021) I will rethink the topic. Being there are 4 major lines and 17 strains and the vaccines are only engineered for a portion, I'll skip it for now. Being our family had the virus already, think we have a few months to think about it. Cheers.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Mike1950

I will wait till politics get out of it and science returns. @BangleGuy numbers above about flu vaccine above do not instill a lot of faith in flu vaccines. We probably already had it in February. We will let them work the bugs out on it-sorta like not buying first year model of new car..

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## Bean_counter

Ever seen the movie “I am legend” yeah I’ll pass for now

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## barry richardson

I will get it, but it will probably be quite a while since I'm not high risk, or in a high risk job.... personally, I'm not too worried about it either way, my 33 year old son had it last month, said it was like having the flu for a few days, and now, my mother, who is 90 and in a nursing home with Alzheimer's has it, they are saying she is pretty much asymptomatic except for a little cough, no fever and she has good oxygen levels, tough old lady..... any how, it doesn't seem too scary to me....

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## JerseyHighlander

Not a prayer, not under any circumstances. My natural immune system is plenty strong. I have medicinal herbs to handle what it can't. I'm not trusting anything that comes from a giant conglomerate company that accepts ZERO liability for any damage it's products do. Just doesn't inspire confidence and I've seen first hand the damage this stuff does. 
While it's been over 40 years since I even took Tylenol, my son has never been shot up with anything, ever. 17 years old now and he's always been the healthiest among his friends, rarely sick and throws it off in a day or two on the rare occasion he comes down with anything. He's also never had flouride touch his teeth, no treatments of any kind and never used a toothpaste with fluoride in it and he doesn't have a single filling in his mouth... My eyes see too well, the "science" looks too much like marketing, not science.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DKMD

I’ll probably get it next month... I passed on the first round to allow someone else to get it since I’m not in any high risk categories.

From what I’ve read so far, the known mutations haven’t altered the virus enough to render the Covid vaccine(s) ineffective. Also, influenza is probably not a good analogy for the coronavirus vaccine since influenza tends to mutate at a much higher rate.

Reactions: Like 2 | Thank You! 1


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## Gdurfey

I voted yes, but figure the summer. Even though my wife is a nurse, she is not getting in line. She has food allergies and also reacted to the former shingles vaccine. Nope, she is not trusting yet. She is also lucky, she works at a children’s hospital and they are considered secondary for some reason even though she sees a ton of kids that test positive even though they are asymptomatic.

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## ripjack13

My wife and I already had it. I'm good for a while. However, her company is mulling over making it mandatory to keep working there. If that happens she's got a decision to make.

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## Nubsnstubs

Nope. Not me. Haven't been sick since my last flue shot back in '96. I just don't get sick, so I suppose my immunity is pretty good. Hell, I went from 1rst grade through 9 grade with perfect attendance. Just don't get sick. I still have my tonsils, appendix and any of those other things kids were getting removed in early life. No need to compromise myself now. ........... Jerry (in Tucson)

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## rob3232

Mike1950 said:


> Yes but your meme sort implies Trumpsters as being the problem. Ignoring months of looters-arsonists and thugs in the streets. None of which are social distancing. I recommend a trip To Portland Ore. Very liberal. The medians on the freeway exits and the green areas along freeways are tent cities-beyond your imagination. the trash- blocks out the ground in many places- city has a whole crew just hauling garbage. anything left behind with any perceived value has to be stored for a certain Time in case owner shows up. The smell- WOW!!! we went through portland a week ago- traffic was slowed. a late 2000 teens car was broke down along road. Marked by police to be towed. a homeless guy was there with his cart- full of stuff from inside car and he was breaking windows with a hammer. These are the real pictures the news should be showing. The park crappers destroying public and private property. But they are liberal crappers- which seems to have different rules...... It is disgusting..............






As said before! My post was to show that people are not following science by not wearing a mask....that was on his neck. Not intended to be political. So.... How do you feel about todays events? Not trying to throw it in your face but just curios to your thoughts?


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## Mike1950

rob3232 said:


> As said before! My post was to show that people are not following science by not wearing a mask....that was on his neck. Not intended to be political. So.... How do you feel about todays events? Not trying to throw it in your face but just curios to your thoughts?


Disgusting. I think this is what happens though when democrat run cities are burnt and looted for 9 months and nobody does a damn thing. Amazing how the right does it and OMG!!!. 
But I agree with none of it.
Covid. 2 weeks to flatten curve. How is it working.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mike1950

rob3232 said:


> As said before! My post was to show that people are not following science by not wearing a mask....that was on his neck. Not intended to be political. So.... How do you feel about todays events? Not trying to throw it in your face but just curios to your thoughts?


I have openly complained about riots arson and looting. You have been silent till now.....

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mr. Peet

Mike1950 said:


> I have openly complained about riots arson and looting. You have been silent till now.....



They do have to work on choreography. The media repeated saying, "They stormed the capital" then show people walking. Lester Holt asked it there were any youth present seconds after a woman passing by pushing a baby in a stroller. I realize he may have been listening to the reporter and not seeing what was being showed. As for rioting, they did find 2 dozen that were responsible for breaking a window and damaging property. Many more crowded sidewalks that forced the shut down of roads for public safety. It was only announced weeks ago, so authorities did not have time to prepare. Not sure if it will cost several billion dollars as the "mostly" peaceful BLM demonstrations caused. However, everything cost more in D.C..

The 7pm news repeated the use of the word 'rioters', showing more than 100 civilians being pepper sprayed over barriers. Again, poor choreography. Listening creates one image in the mind, but the video shown often conflicted what was being said. Just sad how the whole thing played out.

Hope everyone in the WB family are well.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## rob3232

....Really? How is COVID working?
Nice Mike!


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## Mike1950

rob3232 said:


> ....Really? How is COVID working?
> Nice Mike!


You can disagree but I would prefer you not miss quote me. Or take out of context.
Our numbers are going down but we just moved back to phase one.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## rob3232

Mike1950 said:


> You can disagree but I would prefer you not miss quote me.


What do you mean as far as miss quote?


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## Mike1950

rob3232 said:


> ....Really? How is COVID working?
> Nice Mike!


Your comment. What do you mean. I did not say that why the nice mike...
We have been wearing masks in this state for 8 months. Not restaurants no bars no small stores. Only the government thinks it is bigger than the virus. What we are doing does not work. It has destroyed the hospitality industry in our state. And not one damned government worker has missed one days pay. Suicide is up. Overdose is up. Domestic violence is up.... I could go on...

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## gman2431

I'm just glad Kenosha didn't burn again last night... after reading the headline (which I totally agree with the officers justified actions) I thought for sure there would be a repeat.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ripjack13

I let this one slide for a while.
I would suggest you guys keep it to the covid fiasco and keep the political riots and presidential farce out of this. That's what fakebook is for, not WB....

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## gman2431

ripjack13 said:


> I let this one slide for a while.
> I would suggest you guys keep it to the covid fiasco and keep the political riots and presidential farce out of this. That's what fakebook is for, not WB....


Wasn't trying to stir pot, just expressing real emotion. We ALL have been through enough nonsense last year. It all needs to stop no matter what side you are on.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Mr. Peet

rob3232 said:


> As said before! My post was to show that people are not following science by not wearing a mask....that was on his neck. Not intended to be political. So.... How do you feel about todays events? Not trying to throw it in your face but just curios to your thoughts?



Rob,

There are many issues. If you follow the science, wearing a mask has nearly no protection without goggles and a face shield. John Hopkins had it on their website as did the World Health Organization. Goggle removes it as a public safety step, Hopkins puts it up back up and Goggle repeats. The N95 mask is the lowest approved mask during the pandemic. Issue is, they are not readily available, so they tell the public that any mask is better than none. 

The new issue in health care is called "mask mouth". It is mostly involving cloth masks. Nearly half of December pneumonia cases correlate to people wearing cloth masks for more than 4 hours a day. Dentists have been reporting the correlation for 2 months as well as several universities that focus on dentistry but CDC needs 6-8 months more worth of data to conclude. 

John Hopkins had a report out in November 2020 that showed the US death toll was not reflective of a pandemic. It compared Jan.-Sept. 2019 with Jan.-Sept. 2020 and found the death toll nearly the same. However it had massive conflicts in data, heart attacks were down a double digit percent, as were strokes. This had never happened since the start of record keeping. In the past, 3 and 4 percent were the biggest recorded swings. There were other issues as well. The death toll should have been higher, firstly because of population growth, and then because of covid. They concluded only a few reasons for not matching history patterns, one that many of the recorded covid deaths absorbed the offset percentages from other death categories and two that elective surgeries were down. Medical malpractice deaths were way down. 

So the science that they tell is not always the science. Do they stress that a side effect of the Phizer vaccine runs a risk of sterilization of women. The animal trials are supposed to start back up soon and should have results next fall or winter. So, do you force employees that plan to have children to take it? No clear answers now, but maybe in 5 years we'll know some of them. 

You do as you see fit and be well.

Reactions: Great Post 4 | Sincere 1


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## rob3232

Good to know Mark @Mr. Peet Thank you!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## DLJeffs

It's all the hypocrisy that gripes me. I switched to a little local news station called Central Oregon Daily because the Channel 2 News was getting too political and biased. I figured this other one would stick to local news. Wrong. They spent the entire 5pm half hour showing photos from the Capital, using all the words you guys talked about "storming", "rioting", etc. But then.. they had one of their morning desk jockeys come on for a special segment. He presented this emotional, passionate charge statement about how disgustingly wrong this was, how it will destroy our democracy, yadda yadda. That was bad, but then he has the gall to say "We're doing our best to present you the facts and the news, without taking sides, without bias, to the best of our ability." Funny, there was no similar emotional, passionate segment when the anitifa crowd trashed Portland - for three months straight. Or when a similar group block the Fed ICE officers from transporting two illegal immigrants with outstanding criminal warrants and our county DA went out there and joined the protesters. Similarly, the state government reps have been lambasting the Washington DC politicals for doing such a bad job of handling the corona virus and the vaccine rollout. Yet, in todays paper there was an article that said Oregon government had established a plan to administer 100,000 vaccine doses , but to date have only administered 51,283. Yet, I have not seen any media or news report point out what a pour job the state government has done. The politicians and health authorities emphasized we should avoid group gatherings and travel. Yet, as someone mentioned above, a bunch of west coast politicians (the California governor of particular note since he's more or less shut down his entire state) all travelled to Hawaii for a conference. It wasn't even a procedural meeting - just a conference. The entire lot of them have destroyed their credibility - and sadly a very large number of Americans fail to see that.

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## Maverick



Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tom Smart

Can anyone explain why a football player can be maskless while mixing it up on the playing field, but have to wear a mask on the sidelines?

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 2


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## Arn213

^That makes the 2 of us. Baseball for instance does the same thing. Yes, some players wear them. A pro baseball team I follow, the catcher and first baseman got Covid. These might be a coincidence- but, think about how much time a catcher spend on the plate while some batters use or don’t use a mask. The same situation happens at first base. This doesn’t pertain if you strike out, but if you hit a ground ball or walk or get an offensive hit, the runner will advance to first base and first base becomes a very pedestrian spot. Think about how many players a first baseman encounters during the game. The first baseman started to wear a mask after they had Covid. They have to have some kind of protection in order to limit the exposure to someone that has it.

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## Mike1950

Have had a cold for a week. I get tested tomorrow. Get tested on 9th again. For a susurgery. Will be plenty sick of poking and prodding by then...

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## vegas urban lumber

friend of mine in his late 50's tested positive for covid on wednesday 6 pm. he and i had worked outside together (no masks) installing fence the entire day. he had no symptoms till his fever came on at 4:30 pm. he went to the VA, He was given some albuterol and other steriods and sent home. friday evening his fever begins to spike, checked into the VA hospital at about 7 pm, they found his platelets had dropped to 23k and should have been btwn 150k to 440k. his platelets had tested a little low the week before at 95k. doctors said had he not come in on friday evening he would have died in his sleep overnight (bled out into his own lungs). platelet infusions twice since along with a myriad of other things and he'll be in the hospital for the next 2 weeks. somehow i did not catch it. though another friend of ours that worked with him on sunday did catch it. She appears to be recovering quickly. My friends girlfriend who he was with all day tuesday appears to have somehow not caught it either. There are many odd ways that covid affects people differently. i also dodged covid that my mother in law got just before she spent thanks giving with us and the 6 days afterword (as she began to develop symptoms) with my 9 year old son at her house and in her car with her. Somehow my wife, son and i all tested negative then, and as of yet i have not had any symptoms from last wednesday's exposure. took my mother in law who is 73 almost till christmas to return to normal (without symptoms)

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## Gdurfey

Please allow this.......all politics and news media aside, this is what stuns me. The many ways in which it impacts folks and the way it spreads. Just crazy. As I have said before, my wife is a nurse and she still comes home with different information about this crazy thing. And yes, Colorado has this new strain whatever it is.
Sorry to hear @vegas urban lumber Trev, please watch your symptoms and don’t play tough guy. That is about all that is consistent in what my wife has been told.


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## Mr. Peet

Tom Smart said:


> Can anyone explain why a football player can be maskless while mixing it up on the playing field, but have to wear a mask on the sidelines?



I assume you were just joking...if not this is why.

At rest players are able to attain enough oxygen to maintain consciousness. While playing, the masks greatly increase recycling of exhausted air as intake air. This air is at lower oxygen levels. Our lungs are similar in size for most people, but a 6 foot tall 200 pound person often has a lower muscle mass than a 6 foot tall 300 pound person. The higher muscle mass requires more oxygen. When the larger athletes perform at capacity, many were passing out. Several high schools have band sports because of athletes passing out and falling down and being hurt while competing. The professional sports arena has come to the reality, that most performers are already at low risks even if they get it, not to mention have far better health care available in comparison to most of us. So those with the money, make the rules and so far are working for most.


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## Tom Smart

Mr. Peet said:


> I assume you were just joking...if not this is why


Actually, Mark, I was only half kidding. I just don’t see the logic in it. OK, the coaching staff, referees and other sideline dwellers might be in a different risk category, I get that part. But between the playing field and sidelines what changes? 




Mike1950 said:


> Have had a cold for a week. I get tested tomorrow. Get tested on 9th again. For a susurgery. Will be plenty sick of poking and prodding by then...



I sure hope it is nothing serious, Mike.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 3


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## Ray D

Tom Smart said:


> Can anyone explain why a football player can be maskless while mixing it up on the playing field, but have to wear a mask on the sidelines?


Can’t say I’ve noticed......that’s due to the fact that we refuse to watch any nfl. That being said, it is odd.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Tom Smart

Ray D said:


> Can’t say I’ve noticed......that’s due to the fact that we refuse to watch any nfl. That being said, it is odd.


Pick any professional sport - basketball, hockey - and it will be the same.

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## Mr. Peet

Tom Smart said:


> Actually, Mark, I was only half kidding. I just don’t see the logic in it. OK, the coaching staff, referees and other sideline dwellers might be in a different risk category, I get that part. But between the playing field and sidelines what changes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I sure hope it is nothing serious, Mike.


The politics change from field to sideline. Science backs the need to play without the mask to reduce long term or lifelong injury, while Covid is of lower risks to long term and lifelong,(I realize, still a risk). As for the mental health of the nation, NFL argued that they are a positive distractive agent and helping if allowed to perform. So far, I agree. This is a simplification.

I have more issue with them playing false crowd background noise for empty stadiums, being I have issue with background noise to start, not to mention when they play loud booing when the team I am cheering for scores or gets a decisive call.....


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## Tom Smart

Mr. Peet said:


> I have more issue with them playing false crowd background noise for empty stadiums,


The stadiums are not empty, they are filled with cardboard cutouts. I’ll bet the owners gave season ticket holders the privilege of paying for their likeness to be “seated”. 

In all cases, it “all about the Benjamin’s.”

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## Mike1950

Tom Smart said:


> Actually, Mark, I was only half kidding. I just don’t see the logic in it. OK, the coaching staff, referees and other sideline dwellers might be in a different risk category, I get that part. But between the playing field and sidelines what changes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I sure hope it is nothing serious, Mike.


I assume I will be fine. 

I watch no football. But why not actors and entertainers are good to go on their job in Ca. They are "ESSENTIAL"

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## Gdurfey

What I hate about all pro sports is they have the privilege of instant test results. Whereas us common folks wait 3 or 4 days.......

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Mike1950

Tom Smart said:


> The stadiums are not empty, they are filled with cardboard cutouts. I’ll bet the owners gave season ticket holders the privilege of paying for their likeness to be “seated”.
> 
> In all cases, it “all about the Benjamin’s.”


you are absolutely right- Not about audience- not about anything but They were losing their proverbial butts before covid because of the kneeling and need the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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## Wildthings

Mr. Peet said:


> I have more issue with them* playing false crowd background noise for empty stadiums*, being I have issue with background noise to start, not to mention when they play loud booing when the team I am cheering for scores or gets a decisive call.....


That drove me nuts watching the Astros this pass year

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Wildthings

Tom Smart said:


> The stadiums are not empty, they are filled with cardboard cutouts. I’ll bet the owners gave season ticket holders the privilege of paying for their likeness to be “seated”.
> 
> In all cases, it “all about the Benjamin’s.”


For the Astros you could send in a picture of yourself for $100. They would create a cardboard style cutout of you, place it in the seats and at the end of the year you would receive it after it being certified. Also if any balls were to hit your cutouts then you would also get the ball

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## Tom Smart

Wildthings said:


> For the Astros you could send in a picture of yourself for $100. They would create a cardboard style cutout of you, place it in the seats and at the end of the year you would receive it after it being certified. Also if any balls were to hit your cutouts then you would also get the ball


There ya go - one Benjamin, one cutout.

I rest my case....

Reactions: Agree 1


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## trc65

News report at noon summarized the covid deaths in our county. Population of ~52,000 (very rural with one large town of 34,000). Total of ~4400 cases of covid and 111 deaths. Now here's the real truth. 92 of the 111 deaths have been nursing home residents.

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## Maverick

trc65 said:


> News report at noon summarized the covid deaths in our county. Population of ~52,000 (very rural with one large town of 34,000). Total of ~4400 cases of covid and 111 deaths. Now here's the real truth. 92 of the 111 deaths have been nursing home residents.



There you go...trying to confuse the issue with facts.

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## trc65

I could go on and on ranting about how the nursing home residents got infected. Briefly, low paid, part time workers, moving from nursing home to nursing home. Workers ignoring their own symptoms because they need paycheck. PPE being rationed because owners don't want to pay for it. Allowing outside home health workers in nursing homes (private pay) as long as they have a negative test within 2 weeks!

BTW, Residents didn't get infected from family, as family hasn't been allowed since last March.

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## DLJeffs

One thing that sort of irritates me is the politicians are now posturing to vaccinate prison inmates as soon as they're done with emergency responders and health providers. First, I have to ask how a population group that is sequestered in a totally controlled facility was exposed in the first place. And with that total control of access, they have to be one of the easiest populations to control infection and spread. Second, they're freaking criminals. I think the government types are worried about getting sued by the civil liberty lawyers.

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## Mr. Peet

DLJeffs said:


> One thing that sort of irritates me is the politicians are now posturing to vaccinate prison inmates as soon as they're done with emergency responders and health providers. First, I have to ask how a population group that is sequestered in a totally controlled facility was exposed in the first place. And with that total control of access, they have to be one of the easiest populations to control infection and spread. Second, they're freaking criminals. I think the government types are worried about getting sued by the civil liberty lawyers.



Same reason they canceled an execution because the inmate had covid. They want to cure the inmate (spend money) to assure good health then inject with life ending, numbing agent, therefor costing the taxpayer more money and the victim's family more grief.

I'd say, get it done, save the taxpayer on many levels, and withhold the criminal from prolonged suffering.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## gman2431

trc65 said:


> I could go on and on ranting about how the nursing home residents got infected. Briefly, low paid, part time workers, moving from nursing home to nursing home. Workers ignoring their own symptoms because they need paycheck. PPE being rationed because owners don't want to pay for it. Allowing outside home health workers in nursing homes (private pay) as long as they have a negative test within 2 weeks!
> 
> BTW, Residents didn't get infected from family, as family hasn't been allowed since last March.


There's so much I agree with; and don't agree with on this.

I really think your area might have something to do with it. We experienced similar to a certain degree, the other degrees were vastly drastic... My wife is a physical therapist and was gone less than a month after covid hit. Lost her job after 90 days of furlough per the company and has just now started to get back to work in her field.

Reactions: Like 1 | Sincere 2


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## Mr. Peet

@Mike1950 

So I learned today, with the 5 year legal immunity to all covid vaccine producers, that most life insurance companies have a clause that excludes experimental medical procedures, which includes the covid vaccine until it's research trial's are done in 2023. So we contacted our provider and found that if we get the vaccine, our policy would not pay out until the safety trials are done and accepted by the insurance company. Joys of life...

Reactions: Informative 3


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## Mike1950

Mr. Peet said:


> @Mike1950
> 
> So I learned today, with the 5 year legal immunity to all covid vaccine producers, that most life insurance companies have a clause that excludes experimental medical procedures, which includes the covid vaccine until it's research trial's are done in 2023. So we contacted our provider and found that if we get the vaccine, our policy would not pay out until the safety trials are done and accepted by the insurance company. Joys of life...


So if you take vaccine and have health problems due to vaccine your insurance company pays nothing and you foot the bill.???

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Mr. Peet

Mike1950 said:


> So if you take vaccine and have health problems due to vaccine your insurance company pays nothing and you foot the bill.???


Your health insurance may, but your life insurance may not.

Reactions: Like 2


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## woodtickgreg

I dont trust it and I'm not taking it. Its development was rushed imo. I never take the flu shot either. I'm not afraid of covid, if I get it I'll survive it. I'm healthy and have no underlying issues. But that's just me and my choice about what I put into my body. I'm particular about my food too.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## phinds



Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Funny 3


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## T. Ben

phinds said:


> View attachment 208442


I was going to give this a rating of funny but as I am one who was on the fence about getting the shots,am now on the side of not getting it so you can carry me around to protect everyone. Thanks.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## Mr. Peet

T. Ben said:


> I was going to give this a rating of funny but as I am one who was on the fence about getting the shots,am now on the side of not getting it so you can carry me around to protect everyone. Thanks.


They just started pushing it in our local highschools, even though the science and math both say and predict the that youth under 20 years of age are likely to have more side effects from the vacine than from covid, but to do it for others. I think that falls under irony...?...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## T. Ben

Mr. Peet said:


> They just started pushing it in our local highschools, even though the science and math both say and predict the that youth under 20 years of age are likely to have more side effects from the vacine than from covid, but to do it for others. I think that falls under irony...?...


I haven’t heard that,then again i have been tuning it out as much as I can.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Way Cool 1


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## DLJeffs

T. Ben said:


> I haven’t heard that,then again i have been tuning it out as much as I can.


They had a vaccination event at one of the high schools here this week and some kids and parents protested out front (in Oregon you aren't cool if you don't protest at least once a week). The funny part was they had signs that said stuff like the vaccine causes sterilization and that the vaccine was made from aborted fetuses. I guess not being in school they had way too much time on there hands.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Mike1950

phinds said:


> View attachment 208442


I could say so much....


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## Mr. Peet

DLJeffs said:


> They had a vaccination event at one of the high schools here this week and some kids and parents protested out front (in Oregon you aren't cool if you don't protest at least once a week). The funny part was they had signs that said stuff like the vaccine causes sterilization and that the vaccine was made from aborted fetuses. I guess not being in school they had way too much time on there hands.


Not sure if that is supposed to be funny. There is a fertile study with men aged 20-40 years being done, but no official results. They did release that most had a drop in swimmers after getting the vaccine, some as high as 40% drop, but official numbers are not being released until more cases are studied over a longer period of time.

As for the aborted fetuses, only 4 major vaccine suppliers say that they used stemcell product from fetuses that may or may not have been aborted. So those protesters just need to go back to school.


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## Herb G.

Well, they finally got the vaccine in my area. I got my 1st shot of Pfizer vaccine today.
I'm supposed to go back in 3 weeks for my 2nd shot.
I went to Safeway ( grocery store ) & they gave me a 10% coupon off my food bill for getting the shot today.
It saved me about $15. That paid for the gas it took me to get there, and then some.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Mike1950

Wife got second shot 6 weeks ago. Been sick ever since.

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## rob3232

Mike1950 said:


> Wife got second shot 6 weeks ago. Been sick ever since.



From the second shot? Hopefully she feels better soon! We had soar arms but that was it. Did you get a shot too?


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## Mike1950

rob3232 said:


> From the second shot? Hopefully she feels better soon! We had soar arms but that was it. Did you get a shot too?


From 2nd shot.
No. Had surgery in February. I had a very adverse reaction to 2nd pneumonia shot. I am going to take my chances on covid.

Reactions: Sincere 2


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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

I got Covid in April of 2020. #1 wife got it at that time too. She was sick for three days 102-103 fever and felt like crap. I had 101 fever for half a day and wouldn't have known that if I hadn't been sure that I'd been exposed. I had no other symptoms until about a month afterward I realized I couldn't smell anything. Sense of smell came back better than ever after a month. I got an antibody test and it was a 19.5 (whatever that means). They said anything over 2 was high antibodies. #1 wife had a 6. She got the J&J vaccine and was sick for a week and bruised very easily for about two weeks. The bruise at the injection site was pretty ugly. 

I didn't get the vaccine and really don't intend to. My antibody count is likely still pretty high and my immune system is strong. I don't go hang out with sick people and wear a mask where they are required by the property owners. 

Alan

Reactions: Like 1 | Sincere 3


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## Lou Currier

At first I was not going to get the shot but I want to travel and can see the vaccine being a requirement for international travel so I decided to get it. I did the Maderna and experienced nothing after the first shot. I got my second shot almost two weeks ago and the only thing I experienced was a sore arm. I have heard more people experiencing things more with the Pfizer and J and J than the Moderna.


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## Herb G.

Hey Lou, the guy who gave me my shot might be a great pharmacist, but he couldn't give a shot for chit.
I had tetanus shots that hurt less than what I got yesterday.
My arm feels like I got hit with a baseball bat today.
They really need to train these people on how to properly give a shot.

Reactions: Sincere 2


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## William Tanner

My spousal unit and I both got the Pfizer at the mass vaccine site at the fairgrounds. My first injection resulted in a slight fever and fatigue for a couple of days. Didn't feel well but it wasn't bad. No issues at all with second poke. In fact, I didn't feel a thing and commented to my wife that I was feeling like maybe I was getting ripped off. The injection site was a little sore the next day so I was sure I actually got the shot. Everyone in our extended family have received the vaccine and we are so thankful.


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## gman2431

Just to add a little content...

My wife is back to work and gets tested twice a week. Two Fridays ago she tested positive to two spit tests; and also a lab test that came back three days later.

Zero symptoms and after ten days has maybe had a sniffle. I also have zero symptoms.

Curious me wanted to see what the new regulations for quarantine is and found it rather silly...

So she is suppose to be down for 14 days right? Nope... cleared to go back to work after 9 days and will not be tested anymore for 3 months. Myself, I fell into the 10 day.... really? She's back and I'm not suppose to be? Lastly, and probably the best... if I had the shot there is no quarantine period anymore to an exposure.....REALLY?!?!

So a person with a shot, whom still can spread the virus, is free to do what they want?!?! Give me a break...

I can only imagine what else is next to come to push people into getting a shot.... absolutely absurd when they bend rules to push what they want...

Edit: all of this info is from her employers (major local hospital) infectious disease staff.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Wildthings

Lou Currier said:


> At first I was not going to get the shot but I want to travel and can see the vaccine being a requirement for international travel so I decided to get it. I did the Maderna and experienced nothing after the first shot. I got my second shot almost two weeks ago and the only thing I experienced was a sore arm. I have heard more people experiencing things more with the Pfizer and J and J than the Moderna.


I got Moderna also and first shot was a little sore at injection shot. The 2nd shot, that night I woke with chills but went right back to sleep. Next day felt BLAH, kinda like a hangover. When I woke the next I felt fine


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## trc65

I got the Janssen the day before they suspended it. Zero reaction to it, in fact, the only way I could tell which arm I had the shot in was by the band-aid.

Various family members had the Pfizer or Moderna, and none of them had any reaction to them. Don't know if it was from good genes, the fact we all grew up on farms and have robust immune systems from all the nasty bacteria, fungi and viruses we were exposed to, or just blind luck. Most likely, a combination of all the above.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Trob115

Wildthings said:


> I got Moderna also and first shot was a little sore at injection shot. The 2nd shot, that night I woke with chills but went right back to sleep. Next day felt BLAH, kinda like a hangover. When I woke the next I felt fine


Exactly the same symptoms I experienced with Moderna.


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## Herb G.

Well, I got my 2nd covid shot today, by the same butcher that gave me my 1st shot.
I wish I could have punched him in the jimmies for that effing shot, but I figured I'd rather sleep in my own bed tonite.

Anyway, I got both shots, so I should be good for awhile now.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Herb G.

Today, I got my covid booster shot. It didn't hurt as much as the 1st 2 shots, but tomo will tell the tale.
I guess I'm good for another 6 months, the way things are going.

Reactions: Sincere 1


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## sprucegum

I got the double jab last spring the second one really put me off my game for a day, the injection site was sore and had a lump for weeks. My wife has been going to physical therapy all winter for pain caused by the injection being placed to high on her shoulder. Pretty sure that I had the omicron virus a month ago. I didn't get tested but I had all of the symptoms. I'm about done playing the game, I haven't worn a mask since before Christmas and am boycotting all businesses that require them. I will probably have to put one on to go to the doctor this spring. I'm not against the vaccine and am glad I got the first one, I just think it's time to stick a fork in it and call it done.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


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## Mr. Peet

sprucegum said:


> I got the double jab last spring the second one really put me off my game for a day, the injection site was sore and had a lump for weeks. My wife has been going to physical therapy all winter for pain caused by the injection being placed to high on her shoulder. Pretty sure that I had the omicron virus a month ago. I didn't get tested but I had all of the symptoms. I'm about done playing the game, I haven't worn a mask since before Christmas and am boycotting all businesses that require them. I will probably have to put one on to go to the doctor this spring. I'm not against the vaccine and am glad I got the first one, I just think it's time to stick a fork in it and call it done.


England has issues that are raising a stink. Two out of three new cases are repeat cases. So they are trying to push that natural immunity is not likely. The stink is that of the repeat cases, most are vaccinated and the balance are not. Will any of us be alive when the truth comes out? Maybe a percentage game at this point.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mike1950

Things that make you say HMMMM
Israel- maybe the most vaccinated country in world 278,000 cases per million
Palestine 88,000 cases per million.

Reactions: Like 2


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## woodtickgreg

Here's the thing, it's a corona virus! Same as the common cold, much like the omnicrap virus. It's a protein encased virus that is really tough to kill. They have never been able to cure the common cold because of it. If you catch a cold and they test you for it it's gonna come up positive because it only shows up as corona virus, not what type. I know that some of the variants are particularly nasty and can kill you. I don't understand how 2 people living in the same house and 1 gets it and the other doesn't. I don't know if I have had it, haven't had it, or what. I know I've been exposed to it. It went through my company big time, more than half the people here had it, all recovered. All I do know is I hardly ever wear a mask except for at work for certain companies I go to. I'm not vaxed either. I dont know if I have the antibodies or not, I don't want to get anywhere near a medical facility right now. I'm just tired of the whole thing like a lot of people are.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4 | Great Post 2


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## sprucegum

woodtickgreg said:


> Here's the thing, it's a corona virus! Same as the common cold, much like the omnicrap virus. It's a protein encased virus that is really tough to kill. They have never been able to cure the common cold because of it. If you catch a cold and they test you for it it's gonna come up positive because it only shows up as corona virus, not what type. I know that some of the variants are particularly nasty and can kill you. I don't understand how 2 people living in the same house and 1 gets it and the other doesn't. I don't know if I have had it, haven't had it, or what. I know I've been exposed to it. It went through my company big time, more than half the people here had it, all recovered. All I do know is I hardly ever wear a mask except for at work for certain companies I go to. I'm not vaxed either. I dont know if I have the antibodies or not, I don't want to get anywhere near a medical facility right now. I'm just tired of the whole thing like a lot of people are.


Here's a funny one. A town near here has it's own electric company. They have 2 line trucks and 4 linemen 1st class. When the virus started they separated into 2 crews and kept them from having close contact. Yup you guessed it, 
one
guy on each crew caught the bug

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Mike Hill

I guess I might have gold standard immunity now. Vaccine, boosted and now with the virus - almost at the end of my mask quarantine now. Probably got it at the office - 2/3 of us have it - one of the PM's probably brought it in from a jobsite. My wife is vaccinated and boosted, has a job in a mental health hospital where she treats people everyday with it. We did not move to separate parts of the house - pretty much did our normal - and she has not gotten it - go figure! She gets tested probably daily at work - they have some testing machine - so quick results.

My parents are in their mid 80's, and might have to go to see them at a moment's notice and did not want to go through the trouble of going thru the airport without my vaccine card. Then they changed the game and did not have to show proof a month ago when I flew to Texas. So now I have a vaccine and a booster in me that apparently didn't work - I got some form of the virus. Hope the antibodies work better!

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

I have a layman's opinion (on most everything that I have an opinion on), so take it at that. It is based purely on personal observation and personal experience. 

I believe the "vaccines" suppress the natural immune response that the body has to this virus. We will never get to herd immunity as long as people keep boosting. I'm not real sure flu shots work either. I have not had covid shots or flu shots, ever... I haven't had the flu since I was a kid (that was some time ago) and I had Covid in March/April 2020. I haven't been sick since except for allergies. N95 masks work GREAT for Cedar Fever. 

Just as an aside.... I don't believe anything a politician says and absolutely NOTHING that comes out of Main Stream News...

Alan

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Tom Smart

OK, I don’t get it. 

Is COVID not allowed in football stadiums so no mask/distancing required when at the game but it can find its way into the grocery store so you need a mask to buy cucumbers.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Funny 4


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## Mr. Peet

Tom Smart said:


> OK, I don’t get it.
> 
> Is COVID not allowed in football stadiums so no mask/distancing required when at the game but it can find its way into the grocery store so you need a mask to buy cucumbers.


Easy....science is not allowed if money is to be made or if freedoms are given. 

Masks are required / were required in many schools, yet the science clearly showed that if contained in the same room for 45 minutes with a 50' radius, all, will have inhaled a portion of air consumed by every other individual. Many high schools run double time periods, 4 a day versus the traditional 8. And the science has proven time and time again that anything less than an N95 offers nearly 0% protection. And N95 protection is rated medium for 2 hours (against covid) and quickly drops off after that time. So maybe good for grocery shopping (yet worthless if installed with bare hands, touched during any time of use, and if the user sweats, sneezes, coughs or drools). 

So nearly impossible to be in any way protected at any football without being in an iron lung.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

I tried to wear a mask to make other people happy but, they weren't so I stopped except for when the cedar blooms.

The AC systems in buildings circulate the air throughout. 

I know a guy who is deathly afraid of Covid. He's had every shot and booster that they will give him and he has Covid for the third time right now. He'll likely keep on getting it too since his immune system can't react the way it's supposed to. 

There are those who insist that I do not still have antibodies for Covid. I'm not sure how they know this except by demanding that it be so. I go to the doctor every six months for my standard bloodwork. I ask for an antibodies test and low and behold, there are those who are wrong again. They don't believe it when I tell them and they don't believe it when I show them the test results in black and white. They don't want to believe it because I'm doing everything I'm NOT supposed to do and I'm not sick, dead or dying, ..... or vaccinated... I intend to stay that way too.

Alan

Reactions: Like 7 | Agree 2


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## Mr. Peet

Wonder why the FDA is requesting 55 years grace time before releasing their Covid vaccine safety results? They are being sued to release them earlier. A company has just stepped in to support the FDA in their request, a company that just so happens to be a covid vaccine provider (P*888*88r).

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

Because we are being had, big time....

Alan

Reactions: Agree 4 | Great Post 1 | +Karma 1


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## SubVet10

Mr. Peet said:


> Wonder why the FDA is requesting 55 years grace time before releasing their Covid vaccine safety results? They are being sued to release them earlier. A company has just stepped in to support the FDA in their request, a company that just so happens to be a covid vaccine provider (P*888*88r).


Not just 55.5 years, 666 months. Sick sense of humor that these sycophants have.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## SubVet10

... and yet OD's, suicides, myocarditis, strokes, Bells palsy numbers are through the roof.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mr. Peet

SubVet10 said:


> ... and yet OD's, suicides, myocarditis, strokes, Bells palsy numbers are through the roof.


They have increased and coincidentally in higher proportions for those who taken certain medical choices. There has not been enough time to determine a link. The argument is being more focused on pandemic stress as a whole as a cause. Once everyone is vaxed, there is no control population, and then everything that happens is the the "norm" as the old norm has been cancelled. Clearly explained by Bill Gates in his 2013 presentation, "Why we need a Pandemic".

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## Mr. Peet

I see the CDC released last week that 21K individuals under the age of 18 have been diagnosed with myocarditis within months after getting vaxed. They also report that over half that have had heart attacks, did not survive. The % of these events before the pandemic were a small fraction.

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## Woodhaul

Can't work at new york state owned facility unless you are vaccinated.


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## Mike1950

Mr. Peet said:


> I see the CDC released last week that 21K individuals under the age of 18 have been diagnosed with myocarditis within months after getting vaxed. They also report that over half that have had heart attacks, did not survive. The % of these events before the pandemic were a small fraction.


and under 18 vary rarely have bad symptoms. It makes no sense for young to take a vaccine that is more dangerous for them that the china flu.

Reactions: Agree 6


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