# Electrical question...



## DKMD

I went to flip the wall switch for my dust collector, and there was a spark with a puff of smoke. The breaker tripped... I changed my boxers. 

I took the plate off and the wires in the box look fine... It all looks brand new. I got to looking at the switch, and I'm questioning whether it's rated for 220 and the motor on my collector.


 



 

I reset the breaker and things work, but I'm thinking I need to replace the switch. Any thoughts from you electrically minded folks?

Keep in mind that my electrical knowledge is very limited.


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## Mike1950

My guess- since it says 120 is you should have a different switch. No matter- that one is well done........

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Kevin

That switch is rated for 120 - 277V so the ~240V it sees is within the rating. You do not have 220v there you have more likely 240V or thereabouts, but that's splitting hairs. The more important thing is the amp rating. That one says 30. How many amps does your DC pull? If it is close to the limit then the contacts in the switch can eventually break down and cause the need for a change of boxers lol.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Kevin

I would want to get @robert flynt to weigh in though.


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## Dennis Ford

The 30 amp rating of that switch is enough for the running current but is not enough for the starting current. A new switch of the same rating will last for a while but eventually it will fail also. That motor should really have a contactor (heavy duty relay) with the switch only turning on/off current to the contactor coil. A switch rated to start a 5 hp motor will likely not fit in your existing box.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## Tclem

I hard wire all of my 220 and use the breaker as a switching what he said in the starting current. Switch won't last long if it isn't the correct switch. The switch you have can be used up to 277v for lighting


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## Kevin

Tclem said:


> I hard wire all of my 220 and use the breaker as a switch



That's how I have my RPC wired, but it's a pain because my box is in a corner of the shop. When I build my 25 HP one I'm going to put it on a remote controlled motor starter. I have everything together run caps start caps contactors switches relays I just need a remote control device itself. Need to shop around for one.


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## DKMD

Thanks all... I'm betting Dennis nailed the issue. I'll either have to have someone come fix the wiring issue, find a bigger amp switch that'll fit the box, or I'll treat the 30A as disposable switches.


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## Mike1950

DKMD said:


> Thanks all... I'm betting Dennis nailed the issue. I'll either have to have someone come fix the wiring issue, find a bigger amp switch that'll fit the box, or I'll treat the 30A as disposable switches.



Why not hard wire it and get a remote?


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## Kevin

DKMD said:


> or I'll treat the 30A as disposable switches.



You can get a 50 amp motor switch that will fit in the box. Not sure what your starting amps are but this switch would most likely do the job. I think 60 amps is where the switches get too big for a residential box.


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## Tclem

DKMD said:


> Thanks all... I'm betting Dennis nailed the issue. I'll either have to have someone come fix the wiring issue, find a bigger amp switch that'll fit the box, or I'll treat the 30A as disposable switches.


I would try and stay away from option 3

Reactions: Agree 3


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## woodtickgreg

I hard wired all of my 220 machines and use the switches that are on them to turn them on and off, even my dust collector. PSI has a remote start switch in 220 for dust collectors.


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## robert flynt

One thing to remember is, the motor experiences LRA (lock rotor Amps) momentarily and this over time will take a toll on your switch. It would be better to get a heavy duty start stop switch like your band saw and table saw has and mount it in a box. If you wanted to get fancy you could get a starter which has a contactor and over load relay in it. Another option is to get a two pole contactor with a 120v coil in it and use one leg of your 23ov power through a light switch and a neutral to power the coil

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## robert flynt

DKMD said:


> Thanks all... I'm betting Dennis nailed the issue. I'll either have to have someone come fix the wiring issue, find a bigger amp switch that'll fit the box, or I'll treat the 30A as disposable switches.


Might cause a fire with those switches!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## robert flynt

Circuit breakers will weaken over time when used as a switch and a disconnects switches will ark ever time you pull it, which will cause it to fail over time also. Better to go with something made for the purpose.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Kevin

Bones can hire a local licensed electrician, and he probably should, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee him the best result as far as advice goes, but just to do the work. Let's help him solve this. So far I am thinking Dennis and Robert can have a powwow and come to terms. Me, I would install a 50 A motor switch and be done with it because he has a small shop and will have the switch handy. Robert, no more frequently than it sees LRA the 50 AMP switch I linked will never give up the ghost unless he quits sawing bones and starts sawing wood for a living. JMO.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## Kevin

One coda, your wiring WILL need to be changed. You will need 8 gauge but to meet code these days I have no idea.


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## Tclem

robert flynt said:


> One thing to remember is, the motor experiences LRA (lock rotor Amps) momentarily and this over time will take a toll on your switch. It would be better to get a heavy duty start stop switch like your band saw and table saw has and mount it in a box. If you wanted to get fancy you could get a starter which has a contactor and over load relay in it. Another option is to get a two pole contactor with a 120v coil in it and use one leg of your 23ov power through a light switch and a neutral to power the coil


You are a knife maker not an electrician

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kevin

Tclem said:


> You are a knife maker not an electrician



Well, you are an electrician not a knife maker . . . . .

Reactions: Like 1


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## DKMD

Kevin said:


> Bones can hire a local licensed electrician, and he probably should, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee him the best result as far as advice goes, but just to do the work. Let's help him solve this. So far I am thinking Dennis and Robert can have a powwow and come to terms. Me, I would install a 50 A motor switch and be done with it because he has a small shop and will have the switch handy. Robert, no more frequently than it sees LRA the 50 AMP switch I linked will never give up the ghost unless he quits sawing bones and starts sawing wood for a living. JMO.



The sad part is that this was done by a licensed electrician. I'll call somebody to come out and fix it right. I can have them wire it for a remote while they're here.

I don't know enough about electrical stuff to do it myself, so I really appreciate all the feedback and advice.

Reactions: Like 3


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## JR Custom Calls

Just leave the wires hanging out of the box and twist them together when you need it to run... easy solution.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## DKMD

JR Custom Calls said:


> Just leave the wires hanging out of the box and twist them together when you need it to run... easy solution.



Should I lick my fingers first?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## Kevin

DKMD said:


> Should I lick my fingers first?



No. Lick the stamp sending your will to your attorney.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## JR Custom Calls

DKMD said:


> Should I lick my fingers first?


No, you might get some sawdust residue in your mouth, which could be hazardous to your health. Use a damp towel on the floor to insulate yourself instead.

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Tclem

DKMD said:


> The sad part is that this was done by a licensed electrician. I'll call somebody to come out and fix it right. I can have them wire it for a remote while they're here.
> 
> I don't know enough about electrical stuff to do it myself, so I really appreciate all the feedback and advice.


If you need any help with the human anatomy we will be glad to help you out again

Reactions: Funny 2


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## ripjack13



Reactions: Funny 6


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## robert flynt

Tclem said:


> You are a knife maker not an electrician


31 plus years of fooling with motor gives a little experience, telephone guy!

Reactions: Great Post 1 | Funny 4


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## robert flynt

A little 4x4" handy box to mount a two pole contactor in then you can drill a hole in the cover to mount a toggle switch on, to start and stop the motor, will do the job nicely, or you can do like Kevin said. Don't how to make a drawing on this thing (computor) but Kevin does.


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## robert flynt

JR Custom Calls said:


> Just leave the wires hanging out of the box and twist them together when you need it to run... easy solution.


You sound like my neighbor when he was working on his pump. He had put both legs of power on separate breakers instead of using a two pole breaker. Well he didn't pull both of those breakers so when the water pressure dropped the pressure made and power from that breaker back fed through the motor and the wire for the breaker he had pulled. When he grabbed that wire he locked up! My son and I were roofing a shed I had built and he noticed Mickle fall on the ground and told me. I asked him if mick got up and he said had and he was on one knee, holding a hammer, looking at the breaker box like he wanted to hit it. We both ran to the other side of the roof and laughed our butts off where he couldn't see us.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Tclem

robert flynt said:


> You sound like my neighbor when he was working on his pump. He had put both legs of power on separate breakers instead of using a two pole breaker. Well he didn't pull both of those breakers so when the water pressure dropped the pressure made and power from that breaker back fed through the motor and the wire for the breaker he had pulled. When he grabbed that wire he locked up! My son and I were roofing a shed I had built and he noticed Mickle fall on the ground and told me. I asked him if mick got up and he said had and he was on one knee, holding a hammer, looking at the breaker box like he wanted to hit it. We both ran to the other side of the roof and laughed our butts off where he couldn't see us.


I've seen that before. Morons


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## Kevin

robert flynt said:


> You sound like my neighbor when he was working on his pump. He had put both legs of power on separate breakers instead of using a two pole breaker. Well he didn't pull both of those breakers so when the water pressure dropped the pressure made and power from that breaker back fed through the motor and the wire for the breaker he had pulled. When he grabbed that wire he locked up! My son and I were roofing a shed I had built and he noticed Mickle fall on the ground and told me. I asked him if mick got up and he said had and he was on one knee, holding a hammer, looking at the breaker box like he wanted to hit it. We both ran to the other side of the roof and laughed our butts off where he couldn't see us.



That is freaking hilarious. I've "made" a 2 pole breaker by running a short piece of ground wire through the holes of two single pole breakers side by side in a pinch, but that's a common electrician's hack. Your description of the guy holding a hammer on one knee . . . priceless.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## robert flynt

DKMD said:


> Should I lick my fingers first?


Naw, Just make sure your not grounded and reach over and grab your wifes ear, that will solve all your problems.

Reactions: Great Post 1 | Funny 3


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## robert flynt

Kevin said:


> That is freaking hilarious. I've "made" a 2 pole breaker by running a short piece of ground wire through the holes of two single pole breakers side by side in a pinch, but that's a common electrician's hack. Your description of the guy holding a hammer on one knee . . . priceless.


It gets better! He came over a while later, while we were still on the roof, to tell us about it. He looked up and said " I about kilt my self " and I told him we knew. we had seen what had happened and once we knew he was alright, we ran to the other side of the roof to roll with laughter and not embarress him. His face turned blood red.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## robert flynt

Tclem said:


> I've seen that before. Morons


You mean you did that too, Tony!!!

Reactions: Agree 2 | Great Post 1 | Funny 3


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## woodtickgreg

robert flynt said:


> You mean you did that too, Tony!!!


Notice his avatar, I have seen him before in the back of the short bus wearing the very same helmet and licking the windows!

Reactions: Great Post 2 | Funny 4


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## robert flynt

woodtickgreg said:


> Notice his avatar, I have seen him before in the back of the short bus wearing the very same helmet and licking the windows!


Be nice!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Kevin

Just a warning if you watch this at youtube - there's many videos showing people getting electrocuted to the point of being fried. Gruesome does not describe the first one I watched. I couldn't finish it. I felt guilty just watching it. I went looking for something about a homeowner getting shocked fooling around with electricity but not killed. I didn't realize that there would be videos of people getting killed right on youtube! So if you're into that sort of thing have fun but if you're like me be forewarned to just watch this video here and don't go to YT.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Tclem

robert flynt said:


> You mean you did that too, Tony!!!


Guy called me a while back and said his counter top stove was shocking him. So I showed up and off course I just had to lay the back of my hand on it and yes it did shock. Knew right away what it was. Moron hooked up one leg and ground to the stove and the other leg to the equipment ground. Will shock you every time

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Dennis Ford

Back to the original issue; this would be a good fix:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/5-HP-Magnetic-Switch-Single-Phase/T20551?utm_campaign=zPage

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 3


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## ripjack13

Kevin said:


> Just a warning if you watch this at youtube - there's many videos showing people getting electrocuted to the point of being fried. Gruesome does not describe the first one I watched. I couldn't finish it. I felt guilty just watching it. I went looking for something about a homeowner getting shocked fooling around with electricity but not killed. I didn't realize that there would be videos of people getting killed right on youtube! So if you're into that sort of thing have fun but if you're like me be forewarned to just watch this video here and don't go to YT.



That guy has some hilarious umm....how to videos....


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## robert flynt

Tclem said:


> Guy called me a while back and said his counter top stove was shocking him. So I showed up and off course ninjas to lay the back of my hand on it and yes it did shock. Knew right away what it was. Moron hooked up one leg and ground to the stove and the other leg to the equipment ground. Will shock you every time


It is a good thing the floor wasn't wet!


Dennis Ford said:


> Back to the original issue; this would be a good fix:
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/5-HP-Magnetic-Switch-Single-Phase/T20551?utm_campaign=zPage


That little starter will probably work great!

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## Tclem

robert flynt said:


> It is a good thing the floor wasn't wet!
> 
> That little starter will probably work great!


Yeah for real. Off course i wear good insulated boots. I never did get to work on motors as much as I would have liked. I pretty much stayed on lighting and small voltage assembly lines. And I still haven't finished my shop. Been working it for a year lol


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## robert flynt

Tclem said:


> Yeah for real. Off course i wear good insulated boots. I never did get to work on motors as much as I would have liked. I pretty much stayed on lighting and small voltage assembly lines. And I still haven't finished my shop. Been working it for a year lol


The biggest open drive motor I've worked on was 698 hp and the largest hermatic motor was in a 1200 ton chiller. It had a loose rotor ( armature ) bar and had to take the rotor out to have the bars recast.

Reactions: Like 1


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