# Building a Fly Rod



## Gdurfey (Feb 25, 2021)

Not sure why I jump from project to project at times, but I think I better understand this jump. I tied some flies before going off to Florida to join my wife and have that bug again. Came back with suggestions from down there so I need to work on some smaller flies. Not size 22-24 Colorado educated trout sizes, but step down (up) to a 6 or 4 in a shrimp pattern for my next trip as well as some smaller deceivers.

As I was looking thr my materials I came across my rod building stuff and got to thinking I should finally knock that little project out. I’ve had the blanks going on 10 or more years as well as the components. My dad left me enough thread to run a rod factory for 6 months or so, but I am sure my packets of epoxy need replacing.

I will dig the blanks out later today, but I know there are a lot of fishermen on here: @DLJeffs , @Eric Rorabaugh , @Mike Hill , @woodtickgreg , @gman2431, @Barb , and I know I am missing many.

Question to the group, have you built your own rod, what epoxy are you happy with, has much changed in guide spacing, etc. Been on YouTube and found ProKote, and otherwise looks as though I can pick up share I left off. Built a sweet little 7 foot 3 weight that exploded on me. I nearly cried.......I was reaching out from a covered dock and whacked it on the metal edge of the roof.....next cast it exploded. Both the blanks I have downstairs I believe are light weights as well.

Any advice appreciated!!! Or suggestions.....or peanut gallery comments.


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Feb 25, 2021)

I've never built a rod so I can't help


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## DLJeffs (Feb 25, 2021)

Garry,
Are you talking about building a bamboo rod from scratch? I don't know what glue they're favoring these days for gluing the sections together.

If you're talking about other aspects of building a rod I might be able to help. For gluing the cork rings and reel seat together, I have migrated to basic two-part epoxy, minimum 30 minute cure, better is the longer cure. I get all the parts filed and fitted before I get out any glue. I keep my cork rings stacked in the order I plan to put them on (remember the rod taper get larger the closer you are to the reel seat). I try to file my rings so when I hold the butt section vertical and let the ring fall via gravity, it stops a couple inches above the last ring. That results in a decent glue connection without being too loose. If the ring is too tight you risk scraping off too much glue and not getting a good glue up. I put glue on the blank and on the flat surface of the ring it will set against and spread the glue so it entirely covers the surface. I try to achieve a little squeeze out between each cork ring to ensure any voids or chinks are filled with glue. The last ring, farthest from the reel, I take extra care with a try to get the hole just right. I don't like to use winding checks (the little metal or rubber ring glued on after the last ring - we used to say winding checks were just a crutch for bad cork work). I also don't use those little hook keeper things, just something else to get in the way.

Years ago I used to use the old Weldwood powdered plastic wood glue. You mix it with water until you get a thick latex paint consistency. It works fine if you have it around. One benefit of the epoxy is that if you ever need to remove the reel seat (say to re-glue it or something) you can heat the glued surface and the epoxy will usually soften enough that you can pull the reel seat off and take it apart. The Weldwood plastic glue you can't do that with.

For the skeleton on the reel seat and the reel seat spacer I use the same epoxy. If the reel seat spacer wiggles too much I build that section of rod up with smooth layers of masking tape. If the spacer is too tight I use a rat tail file to widen it where needed, careful not to make the hole oval. I scratch the metal surfaces that will be glued with a file. Not sure it helps or not but in my mind it can only help the epoxy grab ahold, especially on the butt cap.

I do not bother sanding the surface of the blank. The epoxy sets just fine even on a glossy surface blank.

For the tip top I use ferrule cement. Comes in a round stick, you heat it up to soften, rub on a thin layer and then slide on the tip top and position. Cures as it cools. Kind of like the old Pitex rods we used to patch rock divots on our skis. The reason is this allows easy replacement of a bent or damaged tip top.

Hope this is helpful. If not, ask away.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Lou Currier (Feb 25, 2021)

I've built a rod or two and still replace eyes for people...for gluing any 5 minute epoxy but to cover the threads I use flex coat and have a continuous turner to keep the rod turning while the flex coat sets.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Mike Hill (Feb 25, 2021)

Not much to add. However, it is somewhat important if either bamboo or glass/carbon. Although a few guys use thinned down epoxy to finish the wraps on a bamboo rod, probably most use varnish. With glass/carbon, most use epoxy and that is where it gets fun - anything from devcon on up. However many seem to like the Flex Coat products especially the high build, you have passionate devotees of other such as Pro Kote and Generation 4. Next rod I do I'm gonna try some Generation 4. Have in mind to experiment with some West Systems epoxy, just because I have some laying around waiting for a RC sailboat build. Totally agree on using something that can be removed by heat for the seat and the tip-top. Guide spacing suggestions have probably changed in the last few decades - I seem to notice less space between and smaller guides - less line slapping theoretically for longer casts. Plenty of rod spacing guides available on line. Doubt if any give that much more of an advantage over another. 

BTW - what type of thread did you Dad leave you?

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Mike Hill (Feb 25, 2021)

Lou Currier said:


> I've built a rod or two and still replace eyes for people...for gluing any 5 minute epoxy but to cover the threads I use flex coat and have a continuous turner to keep the rod turning while the flex coat sets.


and an alcohol burner to get rid of bubbles. Also might consider using some color preserver.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## woodtickgreg (Feb 25, 2021)

Only rods I have ever built where for ice fishing and rather primitive.
@gman2431 might be of some input.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gdurfey (Feb 25, 2021)

Now I realize I could have added a lot more detail. All the rods are carbon fiber of one brand or another. Went digging earlier today, only took me 5 minutes to locate.....wow. Should play the lottery tonight.

4 rods, 3 light weight and a 10’ 7wt that I always meant to build for pike and bass. I have an 8 wt, figured I would try it with the heavier line first and go from their. The 3 light weight rods are because I have a passion for blue ridge mountain type angling.........a passion, not skill or Experience. But, they should work on Colorado bread brook trout as well as NC, Tenn, or VA bread brookies.

Thread: one of the traits I picked up from dad is going overboard on things. He has enough thread to do a 100 rods. Well, guess I need to get creative with my guide wraps.

more later, let me take a few pictures of our snow.....

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 1


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## DLJeffs (Feb 25, 2021)

Garry -
I you're interested in selling some Gudebrod threads or a trade for a spacer or something let me know. I have always used Gudebrod size A and you can't get it any longer. I'm researching the next thread now. The blanks I have are dark green so I'm interested in some threads that would look good on dark green - any green tints, some blues would look good, black obviously, some mid-darker browns might look good but lighter ones start to get muddy. Reds, purples don't work well. Yellows and tans might work but again they can turn muddy with application of epoxy.

I second Lou's recommendation for FlexCote for covering thread wraps. I've not found anything better. Just be careful on warm days, it will set up sooner, and once it starts to get thicker, it won't soak into the thread equally and you can get some variation in the thread color.

That Elkhorn 5 piece 3 wt should be a nice small stream rod, easy to carry on a hike.


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## Gdurfey (Feb 25, 2021)

DLJeffs said:


> Garry -
> I you're interested in selling some Gudebrod threads or a trade for a spacer or something let me know. I have always used Gudebrod size A and you can't get it any longer. I'm researching the next thread now. The blanks I have are dark green so I'm interested in some threads that would look good on dark green - any green tints, some blues would look good, black obviously, some mid-darker browns might look good but lighter ones start to get muddy. Reds, purples don't work well. Yellows and tans might work but again they can turn muddy with application of epoxy.
> 
> I second Lou's recommendation for FlexCote for covering thread wraps. I've not found anything better. Just be careful on warm days, it will set up sooner, and once it starts to get thicker, it won't soak into the thread equally and you can get some variation in the thread color.
> ...


Will dig the threads back out. If they are truly what you need, I know we can make a deal!! This is way better than I ever thought, would really like to share.

If I remember correctly I used Flexcote on that first rod. I do remember I didn’t use color preserver on my threads and actually liked the way it looked on that blank. Gee, that picture would still be on film somewhere.......


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## DLJeffs (Feb 25, 2021)

That'd be awesome to swap some thread. That Herter's green variegated looks interesting too if it's the right size and nylon. Re color preserver... if you apply color preserver or use threads that are color fast, they'll hardly change with the application of epoxy. If you don't use color preserver, the thread will darken and turn slightly translucent. Lighter color threads are more translucent than darker thread. In fact, white thread will often nearly disappear completely under epoxy. Kind of an interesting look.
Here's a shot with no epoxy. With color preserver, these wraps would look shiny but the color would be nearly the same.
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Here's a shot of the same wraps with epoxy. You can see how they darken and get translucent.

Reactions: Like 2


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## gman2431 (Feb 25, 2021)

Have I built rods? No...

Do I own alot of custom rods? Yes...

Hmmm... where to start! 

First, and most importantly, figure out how to find the spline in the rod before even thinking of building it. This is one major factor of rods exploding. 

Next, you really need to get a weight on the blank, and also the components you add. I have seen very high end blanks, get outfitted with subpar guides, and all it does is add weight and kill the action of the blank that it was designed for. 

From there, your handle and other accessories are kinda mute since the weight is on the rear. Balancing weight can be added to a butt at any time for anything really "off". 

I could go on and on about this topic, but I feel the first two things are key points. 

I own custom rods from all the big guys in the game i.e. CTS, Scott, Sage, Howler, etc and those first couple things I said is what makes them shine. 

IMO you can take a lower scale blank and make it feel like alot better rod by paying attention to components.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## gman2431 (Feb 25, 2021)

Thirdly... lol! This is pertained to fighting a fish. Never, ever, EVER, "high stick" a fish while fighting it.... 90% of steelhead I fight, come off a rod that never leaves a height of my eyes, standing in a boat. All you are doing is surfacing a fish with a high stick and risking snapping the blank.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Useful 1


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## DLJeffs (Feb 25, 2021)

Most of the major rod manufacturers downplay the importance of splining the modern blanks. They've made so many improvements in the scrim and the design that they've eliminated the heavy seam (or spline). In fact, on most of the modern blanks if you spline them you'll often find more than one spline. I talked to Jerry Siem about this at a Denver Show a few years ago and he said they don't worry about it. Same from a couple guys who work at Scott in Montrose. For years it was a running argument whether to put the guides on the spline or on the side opposite the spline.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gdurfey (Feb 25, 2021)

I remember the spline discussion and think I remember playing with that 10 footer to see if I could feel it or not. Fully understood the concept from a materials standpoint but could I find it.

now the thought of a 5 piece rod and finding the spline makes my head hurt!!

re, the 5-piece. I also remember a conversation with a salesperson re 4 & 5 piece rods. This would have been in the 90s. It was at a time when manufacturers were changing matrixes (that doesn’t look right) every year.....lots of advancements. As a guy that was not going to spend a bunch on a fly rod when I didn’t think I even knew how to fish that well I was content with a bargain. I also had a hope that case and all would fit in the trunk of my Goldwing. I bought a Cabela’s Stowaway 5 piece, 5 wt that I still fish today. Now, I don’t fish as much as I wished, but that rod goes everywhere with me. would a nice Sage or Scott cast and feel better. Yep, pretty much know they would. But as long as i dance with who brung me for now, I’m happy. Oh, my point.....this 5 piece seems to do everything I need it to do. Love the thing. Like I said, don’t know what I am missing, so I don’t miss it.

I figured conversation would grow on this thread. Thanks guys, really appreciate all the info, points, suggestions,.....it’s just fun. Haven’t been this serious about any of my fishing for years. Already tied more flies this year (and used a bunch of them) than I have in the past 3 years combined or more. Also, this is helping me get organized before our big move at the end of summer. Knock out some of these projects instead of packing them up and waiting for them to reappear in a few years.

Reactions: Like 1 | Sincere 1


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## gman2431 (Feb 26, 2021)

DLJeffs said:


> Most of the major rod manufacturers downplay the importance of splining the modern blanks. They've made so many improvements in the scrim and the design that they've eliminated the heavy seam (or spline). In fact, on most of the modern blanks if you spline them you'll often find more than one spline. I talked to Jerry Siem about this at a Denver Show a few years ago and he said they don't worry about it. Same from a couple guys who work at Scott in Montrose. For years it was a running argument whether to put the guides on the spline or on the side opposite the spline.


I fully agree; but also feel the splining can still be relevant in rods. In particular, all the CTS rods I have are very noticeably tied off the spline relation. Now if we step out of the high end world of rods, I still see lots of blanks like Batson and so forth that have very noticeable splines. I can only imagine as you step down into say Mudhole blanks and so forth this will be more prevalent. 

In the end, it is a good thing to see if you can use it to your advantage! If not, carry on and do not over load a blank with heavy components.

Reactions: Like 1


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## DLJeffs (Feb 26, 2021)

I think you hit it on the head Cody. It only takes a few seconds to check the blank and if it shows a significant spline might as well put it to good use. And I completely agree, a heavy, easily found spline would more likely be a problem (or something to account for during the build) than a rod with a barely noticeable spline. 

Garry, best way is to find a smooth flat surface, like the granite counter top or something. Nothing with even the slightest grain or bumps. Choose a section of blank and wrap a piece of masking tape near one end. Place one end of the blank on the smooth surface with your hand up at the opposite end of the blank. Use your other hand to press lightly in the middle of the section to put a slight bend in the section - an inch or two of deflection is plenty. Then slowly roll the end of the blank on the smooth surface and feel for when the blank "jumps". They all jump, some more than others, some it's hard to detect, some even jump twice. If it jumps twice, choose the most prominent one. That's the spline. Roll the blank back and forth and try to find the point where the jump occurs. Make a mark on the masking tape at that position of the blank. Do the same for the rest of the sections. Next join all the sections aligning the marks you made so they're all on the same side of the rod and spline the entire thing. Check where the rod jumps against your mark and adjust the mark if needed. You've found the spline of the rod. Now you get to decide whether you mount the guides on the same side as the spline or on the opposite side away from the spline. I'm staying out of that discussion.

You don't see many 5 piece rods (or 3 piece anymore for that matter). There are a few backpacker series that have 7 sections. I have one I was given when I retired. It casts fine but I haven't fished it. There is a small faction of flyfishers who really like the old Sage RPL's, and a 7wt would be sought after by steelheaders, striper fishers, salmon fishers. If you aren't married to it you might check the market.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## Gdurfey (Feb 26, 2021)

By the way, if I blow a rod up on a big fish, I will probably not be sad......me and big fish don’t go together!!! Just saying. Doesn’t mean I won’t ruin a rod by being dumb, that is me.....

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike Hill (Mar 2, 2021)

Oh heck - I just made a major faux pas - well last night!!! Possibly of titanic proportions. With all this discussion of fly rods, I decided to see how many blanks I had to build and to look for an old Leonard I bought last year. I have a bunch in a corner of the den, and in the process, some female type took notice and asked me how many fly rods I had. So I had to count them all - BUT couldn't do it until my heart started beating again, I started breathing normally, and that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach did not feel quite so bad! I had to report 49. About 22 are in need of some sort of repair - some minor, some major. Mostly cane but a few glass, carbon, steel, and wood. Luckily I did not report on the 11 blanks to build or the dozen "good" rods in the garage or the cane and glass spinning and casting rods or the ultralite spinnings. Now, if she doesn't ask me about wood and tools - my heart can return to normal! I am in need of some pity --- on so many levels!

Reactions: Funny 1 | +Karma 1


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## Gdurfey (Mar 2, 2021)

Envy, karma, sympathy...……..it all depends on perspective as to what I feel for you. Don't want to lose you Mike, but...….sounds like your wife is not a violent woman like mine is...……...


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## FLQuacker (Mar 2, 2021)

Mudhole has a lot of instructional vids at their site and YouTube. They got me thru 4 or 5....then, like you its off to something else.
Mostly inshore salt, med/heavy mod fast 7.6 rods...nutn fancy.
Even designed a water slide decal to lay on.

Reactions: Like 3 | Way Cool 1


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## Gdurfey (Mar 2, 2021)

Wayne, been doing a lot of watching of their videos, and .......spending some money to update my stuff some as I enter back into this adventure. Love your decal, that is great.

I am hoping to do a couple of rods like you described, one for me and one for this new friend down in Florida. Think it will be a nice boat warming gift.

Thanks for the comments and suggestions.

Reactions: Like 2


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