# Gaboon ebony



## Glenn Lefley (Oct 3, 2018)

eye candy for sure. 24 “ by 20 feet long.

Reactions: Like 2 | EyeCandy! 5 | Way Cool 5 | Useful 1


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## barry richardson (Oct 4, 2018)

Wow, those are monsters, wonder how that breaks down @ $150 a bf. Moved your thread so we could comment on it....

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mike1950 (Oct 4, 2018)

barry richardson said:


> Wow, those are monsters, wonder how that breaks down @ $150 a bf. Moved your thread so we could comment on it....


A whole bunch...

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Karl_TN (Oct 4, 2018)

Let's be careful what we wish for... Gaboon Ebony is endangered and listed on the IUCN Red List & CITES Appendix III. I was reminded of a quote from wood-database.com website:

Ebony: Dark Outlook For Dark Woods?

“Ebony has been a wood that for two, or three, or four hundred years, we’ve gone into countries, and we’ve used the ebony until it’s all gone. Literally. Then we move into another country, and we take _their_ ebony till it’s all gone. Why do I say ‘we’?—because ebony isn’t cut in Africa for use by Africans. Ebony is cut in Africa to be sold to people like _us,_ to make things like guitars out of. That’s the simple truth of the matter.” -Bob Taylor

Reactions: Like 1


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## Arn213 (Oct 4, 2018)

Karl_TN said:


> Let's be careful what we wish for... Gaboon Ebony is endangered and listed on the IUCN Red List & CITES Appendix III. I was reminded of a quote from wood-database.com website:
> 
> Ebony: Dark Outlook For Dark Woods?
> 
> “Ebony has been a wood that for two, or three, or four hundred years, we’ve gone into countries, and we’ve used the ebony until it’s all gone. Literally. Then we move into another country, and we take _their_ ebony till it’s all gone. Why do I say ‘we’?—because ebony isn’t cut in Africa for use by Africans. Ebony is cut in Africa to be sold to people like _us,_ to make things like guitars out of. That’s the simple truth of the matter.” -Bob Taylor



The ebony species that are on the restricted listed are the ebony species from Malagasy and basically all ebony species from Madagascar listed on CITES Appendix II. To the best of my knowledge Gaboon ebony is not on the appendix list (not yet and probably heading there). 

http://checklist.cites.org/#/en/sea...&scientific_name=Diospyros&page=1&per_page=20

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Karl_TN (Oct 4, 2018)

Arn213 said:


> The ebony species that are on the restricted listed are the ebony species from Malagasy and basically all ebony species from Madagascar listed on CITES Appendix II. To the best of my knowledge Gaboon ebony is not on the appendix list (not yet and probably heading there).
> 
> http://checklist.cites.org/#/en/sea...&scientific_name=Diospyros&page=1&per_page=20



Interesting that it's not listed on CITES yet, but IUCN does have it listed as endangered. Interesting that Gaboon Ebony is almost all gone from Gabon now.

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/33048/0
*Diospyros crassiflora 
Red List Category & Criteria:* Endangered


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## Arn213 (Oct 5, 2018)

Karl_TN said:


> Interesting that it's not listed on CITES yet, but IUCN does have it listed as endangered. Interesting that Gaboon Ebony is almost all gone from Gabon now.
> 
> http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/33048/0
> *Diospyros crassiflora
> Red List Category & Criteria:* Endangered



It probably will be and it is just a matter of time- no wood species is safe, even the substitute or the wood alternative as greedy humans will exhaust them and it is just a matter of time. Then the cycle begins again of finding another alternative or a substitute to use as a replacement to those species that went on the appendix list. 

The burden of proof comes down to musicians who owns an instrument like a guitar, violin or viola that has ebony components like a fretboard, bridge, tail piece, etc. traveling outside of the country with them for concerts, gigs & studio sessions. Good luck proving which ebony species it is when officials opens up the instrument case.

Reactions: EyeCandy! 1


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## Lou Currier (Oct 5, 2018)

Should be a law that for every endangered spiecies that is cut down, 10 should be planted. But I would venture to say that there are those who would rather have it on the endangered list because that increases its value.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Mike1950 (Oct 5, 2018)

I think it is a human problem- do you have gold or silver- Yikes- tons of earth to get one ounce of gold. and at the bottom of all of it is some poor Ba$tard trying to put food on his table. 30% of the people in the world make less than $10 a day. Let that soak in- 10 bucks. Now on top of that he is supposed to worry about how many trees there are?? He only thinks about one thing- food. and how to get it. If it is cutting down and packing wood on his back out for miles to someone who will give him money- what would you do. 

The real problem is there are too damn many people and nobody wants to look that problem in the eye. and the poorest are multiplying the fastest and we are definitely not looking at solutions to that problem. Way to Un-PC to even admit such a dastardly thing. We in america are not the vacuum that is sucking up these resources- we do not have near enough people. My maple source is shipping huge amounts overseas- pressure on price and resource is end result. 
My point planting a few trees seems like an easy solution but problem is considerably larger than that. Rant over......

Reactions: Agree 9 | Great Post 1


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## Tclem (Oct 5, 2018)

Mike1950 said:


> I think it is a human problem- do you have gold or silver- Yikes- tons of earth to get one ounce of gold. and at the bottom of all of it is some poor Ba$tard trying to put food on his table. 30% of the people in the world make less than $10 a day. Let that soak in- 10 bucks. Now on top of that he is supposed to worry about how many trees there are?? He only thinks about one thing- food. and how to get it. If it is cutting down and packing wood on his back out for miles to someone who will give him money- what would you do.
> 
> The real problem is there are too damn many people and nobody wants to look that problem in the eye. and the poorest are multiplying the fastest and we are definitely not looking at solutions to that problem. Way to Un-PC to even admit such a dastardly thing. We in america are not the vacuum that is sucking up these resources- we do not have near enough people. My maple source is shipping huge amounts overseas- pressure on price and resource is end result.
> My point planting a few trees seems like an easy solution but problem is considerably larger than that. Rant over......


I know an entire group of people I would like to get rid off. A bunch are in Washington. (Not you though mike)

Reactions: Funny 4 | Informative 1


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## Mike1950 (Oct 5, 2018)

Tclem said:


> I know an entire group of people I would like to get rid off. A bunch are in Washington. (Not you though mike)


I know of at least one misisisipian!!


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## Tclem (Oct 5, 2018)

Mike1950 said:


> I know of at least one misisisipian!!


Who is it. I may know him

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Mike1950 (Oct 5, 2018)

Tclem said:


> I know an entire group of people I would like to get rid off. A bunch are in Washington. (Not you though mike)



and we agree- our governor would be one helluva start- Yikes never thought anybody could think of more ways to tax us.... and then be broke.


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## Nature Man (Oct 6, 2018)

Just one of those logs would be nice to have in my personal stash. Chuck


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## Tclem (Oct 6, 2018)

Mike1950 said:


> and we agree- our governor would be one helluva start- Yikes never thought anybody could think of more ways to tax us.... and then be broke.


You haven’t heard of jerry (tax king) brown ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## frankp (Oct 12, 2018)

You can keep the ebony. I hate working that stuff... it smells like a baboon's butt. Nastiest stuff I've ever used.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## rocky1 (Oct 14, 2018)

frankp said:


> You can keep the ebony. I hate working that stuff... it smells like a baboon's butt. Nastiest stuff I've ever used.



Why you been sniffing baboon's butts?

Reactions: Funny 5


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## rocky1 (Oct 14, 2018)

Mike1950 said:


> I think it is a human problem- do you have gold or silver- Yikes- tons of earth to get one ounce of gold. and at the bottom of all of it is some poor Ba$tard trying to put food on his table. *30% of the people in the world make less than $10 a day. Let that soak in- 10 bucks. *Now on top of that he is supposed to worry about how many trees there are?? He only thinks about one thing- food. and how to get it. If it is cutting down and packing wood on his back out for miles to someone who will give him money- what would you do.
> 
> The real problem is there are too damn many people and nobody wants to look that problem in the eye. and the poorest are multiplying the fastest and we are definitely not looking at solutions to that problem. Way to Un-PC to even admit such a dastardly thing. We in america are not the vacuum that is sucking up these resources- we do not have near enough people. My maple source is shipping huge amounts overseas- pressure on price and resource is end result.
> My point planting a few trees seems like an easy solution but problem is considerably larger than that. Rant over......




Nephew has 3 - 4 Nicaraguans working for him, legally, jumped through all the hoops. Gives them $400 expense money when they arrive, so they can buy everything they need; toiletries, food, cell phone, phone cards, clothes, whatever. Had one, 35 years old, said that was the most money he had had at one time, in his entire life. Saved his money up the first year, went home and built his mother a new house. Two room shack essentially, concrete block, tin roof, inside walls weren't finished, no ceiling, no electricity, no running water; sent the nephew pictures, because he was proud of it. Nephew asked when he was going to finish it; he replied, "Is finished! Very nice home in our country." 

One of the others had been here a couple years working, wife had a degree in Mechanical engineering. He had been working for the firm she worked for as a mail room clerk, prior to coming to the states. He earned $300 a month there, and said that was very good wages for that area. Wife makes less than $1000/month with an Engineering Degree. They had acquired 20 acres of land; said he had cleared it, and was planning to farm part of it during the off season here. Asked him how he cleared the land, and he said he hired a crew of men to clear it. Thought that must have been expensive... Turned out it cost him less per day, to hire a crew of 5 men, than he was making here in an hour. They worked for the equivalent of about 30 cents an hour, and thought that above average wages. Government mandates they be paid $15/hour here, and have housing furnished, and a vehicle furnished if they live more than X miles from work and stores necessary to provide all they need, and have to pay their ticket here, and pay taxes, social security, workers comp, etc. etc.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike1950 (Oct 14, 2018)

rocky1 said:


> Nephew has 3 - 4 Nicaraguans working for him, legally, jumped through all the hoops. Gives them $400 expense money when they arrive, so they can buy everything they need; toiletries, food, cell phone, phone cards, clothes, whatever. Had one, 35 years old, said that was the most money he had had at one time, in his entire life. Saved his money up the first year, went home and built his mother a new house. Two room shack essentially, concrete block, tin roof, inside walls weren't finished, no ceiling, no electricity, no running water; sent the nephew pictures, because he was proud of it. Nephew asked when he was going to finish it; he replied, "Is finished! Very nice home in our country."
> 
> One of the others had been here a couple years working, wife had a degree in Mechanical engineering. He had been working for the firm she worked for as a mail room clerk, prior to coming to the states. He earned $300 a month there, and said that was very good wages for that area. Wife makes less than $1000/month with an Engineering Degree. They had acquired 20 acres of land; said he had cleared it, and was planning to farm part of it during the off season here. Asked him how he cleared the land, and he said he hired a crew of men to clear it. Thought that must have been expensive... Turned out it cost him less per day, to hire a crew of 5 men, than he was making here in an hour. They worked for the equivalent of about 30 cents an hour, and thought that above average wages. Government mandates they be paid $15/hour here, and have housing furnished, and a vehicle furnished if they live more than X miles from work and stores necessary to provide all they need, and have to pay their ticket here, and pay taxes, social security, workers comp, etc. etc.


Kathie, is a computer geek. Wrote, designed programs for big clinic. Her boss called her their braintrust. Did physician transcription through a group in India. Sent it there at night and it came back before clinic opened in morning. Person she worked with finally got up to $75 a month. Meant he could afford a wife( yikes must be a helluva lot cheaper there, kathie looks a store and a c note is gone). After a year she said he should ask for a raise. He already had and his boss just pointed to stack of resumes on his desk waiting for his job. We have no clue as to how lucky we are...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## frankp (Dec 7, 2018)

This thread is dangerously close to harking back to our discussion of the greatness of America back when Kevin was still with us... If you haven't traveled to lesser developed countries or don't work directly with people who are still closely associated with true poverty, you really have no concept. Going overseas the first time was an eye opener for me and I had already been to Mexico several times by then.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## sbwertz (Dec 30, 2018)

I just saw some of this at a local shop....a 1"x 2"x 15" piece was fifty dollars.


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## Echoashtoreth (Dec 31, 2018)

I too have traveled a bit overseas as a service tech... thankfully most of my stays are short... in one spot i saw women cutting thorns off of trees to boil and eat.... but as i was scavenging thru a mountain of trash at the site to jerry-rig a vise i found remnants of hvy duty pallets that were fine hardwood.... they were burning it in bonfires to scavenge and reuse the nails..... that were now as soft as butter.... might just have a little pc still- boy was it pretty, hard and shiny! Love chatoyant wood!

But on the ebony... certain groups remind me of locusts- if there is a perceived value they will grab evey scrap regardless of harvesting technique, storage etc.... i went to a 'dirt' market (fake antiques and crafting items) and there were mountains of ebony just sliced in about 1" slices... basically useless as anything but potholders... they put teapots and such on them.. anywhere from $.25-1.50... i mean trees (except trunk)... or u could get french rolling pins for about 1$ i took the risk have a couple... another trip i got 2 rolling pins as a gift.. (and they are my fave - dont tell my hard maple!) 

But this was 1 market - im sure this big city had several others... and this country dozens. So i agree with the guys and expect all general ebony species (and many others) to disappear from the common market in my lifetime unless for some reason you cannot access them... we respect them here but that isnt a shared value. Until it is, we are fighting a losing battle - the ones w the resource will sell their children to survive... some folks in the world will peddle anything to make a buck and as noted above there will probably always be at least 1 steady market (instruments). Personally, I dont buy it any more. But i do love the feel of lignum vitae on a knife handle - so there! I am just an old hypoocrite bc that wood is a mirror image of the ebony problem - just closer to end game! That's my soap box for the year, folks! Lets make the next one better!


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## Herb G. (Dec 31, 2018)

sbwertz said:


> I just saw some of this at a local shop....a 1"x 2"x 15" piece was fifty dollars.


Don't feel bad. I went to a local Woodcraft store & they had a huge slab of Purpleheart.
They wanted $93 a board foot for it. Yeah, you saw that right. $93 a board foot.
It came to $1736 for the slab. I told them to keep it & they'd need a gun with those prices.

Now, I know Purpleheart is fairly rare & exotic & all that, but $93 a bd. ft.? Seriously?


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## Steve Smith (Dec 31, 2018)

That's woodcraft for you. I never buy from them. Last time I bought purpleheart was from a lumber store in Seattle for $6 bd ft. You can still get it for that much, at least for 4/4.


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