# Old table leg ID request.



## Nathan W (Aug 16, 2019)

I believe I have enough clean shots to help ID this. I am still not sure after reviewing some of the resources provided what this is. My thoughts were oak or mahogany, then I visited this page and I am leaning more towards cottonwood. Please help me out here. 

First pieces are of a leg that seems to be furthest from the pith 

 

 
The remaining shots are of the leg that contains the pith 

 

 

 

 The end grain shots are 3.75” x 2.75”

Thanks for any help


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## phinds (Aug 16, 2019)

Hm ... many things (marginal parenchyma, pore distribution, pore sizes) say that it's walnut but the color on the first and last pics do not look like walnut and the fairly strong rays do not look like walnut and the grain on the first pic also doesn't look like walnut. Are you sure these are all the same wood?

Zero chance that it's cottonwood or oak. Some elements look a bit like mahogany but the pore distribution rules that out.

@Mr. Peet what do you think? I'm particularly intrigued by the square pith


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## ripjack13 (Aug 16, 2019)

Do you still have the table top? It may say where it was made, and maybe offer a clue as where to look in the species of woods.?


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## Nathan W (Aug 16, 2019)

I will clean up the rest of these pieces. They are all that is left of the table. I was told it was a conference table that had been in the building where my cabinet shop now resides. The building is probably 80-100 years old in downtown Wichita, KS. Lots of crazy cool architecture still in there. Some of this wood will become my first self built planes.


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## phinds (Aug 17, 2019)

And the answer to my question is ... ???

Another question: are the colors in the pics accurate? Since some are orange and some are gray, I assume they can't all be, so what is it?


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## Nathan W (Aug 17, 2019)

The first piece from previously 

 the second

a new sample 

 All four together 

 Ok, I believe that all the pieces are of the same type of wood. It is very hard wood and is playing hell with my irons. They aren’t perfect, but here they are.


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## Nathan W (Aug 17, 2019)

More together


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## Nathan W (Aug 17, 2019)

And with stain


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## Nathan W (Aug 17, 2019)

I will admit that the first piece is more straight grained than the rest., however it is an end grain book match to one of the other pieces that matches the rest.


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## phinds (Aug 17, 2019)

OK, that's much better for color consistency. If it's as hard as you say then I think we can rule out walnut. I'll poke around and see if I can come up w/ anything.

Reactions: Like 1


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## phinds (Aug 17, 2019)

Damn. I'm coming up empty. Hope Mark (@Mr. Peet ) will think of something.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Mr. Peet (Aug 17, 2019)

Hard and heavy mean little without solid numbers. Give a weight with dimensions so we have a better feel.

My first was Japanese walnut... but changed to not sure as more pictures are posted.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Nathan W (Aug 17, 2019)

I was mistaken, someone else wants the thins. 

The mystery stuff..... I have a piece that is 3x3.5x 14.5” hitch weighs 3lbs 4.2 oz


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## Mr. Peet (Aug 17, 2019)

Nathan W said:


> I was mistaken, someone else wants the thins.
> 
> The mystery stuff..... I have a piece that is 3x3.5x 14.5” hitch weighs 3lbs 4.2 oz



@phinds 

check my math, I'm getting about 37 pounds per cubic foot which is not very heavy, but more mid-weight. This is ball-park for several walnut species....


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## phinds (Aug 17, 2019)

Mr. Peet said:


> @phinds
> 
> check my math, I'm getting about 37 pounds per cubic foot which is not very heavy, but more mid-weight. This is ball-park for several walnut species....


Exactly. Not particularly dense at all. Sure am glad you asked for specifics. I should have as well.

I'd say it's walnut for sure except for the rays. What do you think.

By the way, Nathan and Mark, I removed the stuff about the thin-wood as it was extraneous to this thread.


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## phinds (Aug 17, 2019)

I did find a piece of Peruvian walnut that has rays almost that strong, so there are probably other Juglans spp. that do as well. I'll wait to hear what Mark thinks.


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## Nathan W (Aug 17, 2019)

I appreciate the help. I’m not sure what I was hoping it might be, but walnut was not expected.


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## phinds (Aug 17, 2019)

Nathan W said:


> I appreciate the help. I’m not sure what I was hoping it might be, but walnut was not expected.


Well, I'm not so sure that's definite yet. I want to hear from Mark about the rays and the square pith.


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## FranklinWorkshops (Aug 17, 2019)

How about English Walnut? I have a slab which has grain and color very similar.


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## phinds (Aug 17, 2019)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> How about English Walnut? I have a slab which has grain and color very similar.


But does it have rays that are so obvious at 10X ? Actually, now that I look closely I see that one of my English walnut samples does, so it's a good possibility but I'm still puzzled by the square pith, which is not what walnut pith looks like (at least in my experience)


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## FranklinWorkshops (Aug 17, 2019)

That pith is very unusual. Notice how the first few annual rings are also square. Makes me wonder if this tree had some sort of growth restriction when it was a sapling (like growing up between two heavy rocks. That could cause deformation of the growth rings I would think.


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## phinds (Aug 17, 2019)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> That pith is very unusual. Notice how the first few annual rings are also square. Makes me wonder if this tree had some sort of growth restriction when it was a sapling (like growing up between two heavy rocks. That could cause deformation of the growth rings I would think.


Good point. Everything else seems to point to walnut


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## Mr. Peet (Aug 17, 2019)

Had a 14 hour day today. Tired, I'll say that 'Black walnut' can be diffuse porous or semi-diffuse porous and in post #6, you can see both (2nd picture). Cubic foot weight is a match. It is a KS native and more common than the others.

The pith thing, let me think that over another time...Good night.

Reactions: Like 1


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## phinds (Aug 18, 2019)

Mr. Peet said:


> Had a 14 hour day today. Tired, I'll say that 'Black walnut' can be diffuse porous or semi-diffuse porous and in post #6, you can see both (2nd picture). Cubic foot weight is a match. It is a KS native and more common than the others.
> 
> The pith thing, let me think that over another time...Good night.


Don't forget to think about the rays.


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## Mr. Peet (Aug 18, 2019)

phinds said:


> Don't forget to think about the rays.



I'm sticking with 'Black walnut', based on weight, availability...but have a lower % of confidence.

Color wise matches well to "blonde walnut' finishes. Black walnut has a range of natural color, from tan to rich brown to a dark, almost coffee. Often younger trees have a lighter colored heartwood. Many in the _Juglans_ genus have a chambered pith, looks like you have plenty of pith to investigate to confirm at least family.

I looked through my small number of walnut species samples. I found one Claro walnut sample expressing rays in small proportion and one Persian walnut expressing rays the entire 6" length of the sample. So Larry could also have a match. My Persian sample had a very dark heart and white sapwood. The rays were seen in the sapwood. For the wood in this post, I think the rays are expressed to their maximum as the grain is not straight, and curves as well as rises and descends, showing the rays in the longest likely view. I think the tree started under some sorts of stress, boxed pith and early growth rings for the one piece. The chatoyance hints possible interlocking grain in the heavy ray flecked piece, or an allusion of light as the grain curves, rises and descends.

Need to bisect the pith. You can cut just above the pith and use a sharp jointer and plane down a few 32nds at a time and check each pass to see if you have a chambered pith, as seen in the twig below.

Reactions: Like 1


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## phinds (Aug 18, 2019)

Mark, are you using "boxed pith" to mean the square pith? To me "boxed pith" has nothing to do with the shape of the pith, just that a piece of wood totally contains the pith. From my glossary:


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## Mr. Peet (Aug 18, 2019)

phinds said:


> Mark, are you using "boxed pith" to mean the square pith? To me "boxed pith" has nothing to do with the shape of the pith, just that a piece of wood totally contains the pith. From my glossary:
> 
> View attachment 170372



Sorry Paul,

I meant squared pith, however, in this case, the pith is boxed as well, coincidentally.

Reactions: Agree 1


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