# Good finish gone bad



## MikeMD (May 14, 2014)

Ok, fellas. In the last pen swap, I turned a maple Polaris pen with bloodwood inlay. I used Stickfast for the finish. And had some issues. First of all, I want to say that this is not a Stickfast bashing thread. Simply that that is what I used, and obviously am doing something wrong. I notified my swap partner that this might happen (because it has happened to me before). And if it did, I requested that he send it back for "repair". I have been asked to start a new thread addressing the issue of "crackling" finish using Stickfast to hopefully solve the issue.

I spoke with someone that I know that is very familiar with the Stickfast CA finish, and he first thought that I must have left the pen (not this one...again, it has happened to me before) in a hot car or the likes. Nope, happened while the pen sat at a gallery. (Yeah, um...oops!) Then he said I might be using too much accelerator. So, on this pen, I did two short blasts of Stickfast accelerator. The wood is bone dry (dried in DNA and sat over 6 months before turning). Has happened on this wood (maple) and has also happened on other maple, kiln dried ebony, and other woods. I've had the CA for less than a year. My process is to use the thin for one coat. Then apply 3-5 coats of medium (sanding with 400 grit abranet in between if necessary...meaning if I applied uneven coats or got marks/lines from the rag/paper towel). When sanding, making sure not to overheat the CA to melting point. Satin polish, then gloss polish. Looks great off the lathe, btw...

When my swap partner got the pen, it had already started to crackle. COD (crackled on delivery) as he put it.

In all honesty, I'd like to find out what is going wrong here. I'm not interested in other CA methods or brands. Sorry, not trying to be a butthead here. Just trying to find out what the problem is with the way I'm applying this particular finish. I know Stickfast isn't the only brand out there. I know there are other methods of applying CA. But this stuff works for most if not everyone else. I must just be doing something wrong and would like to get to the bottom of it.

Any and all input is greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## manbuckwal (May 14, 2014)

What speed are u sanding the CA at ? Do u buff the finish ?


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## Schroedc (May 14, 2014)

When you sand between coats are you sanding wet or dry? Looks to me like the layers are separating and that causes the crackle. The only time I've ever had something like that happen was when I ended up with a contaminant between the layers.......


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## SENC (May 15, 2014)

I'm tracking with Colin. How are you cleaning if you sand between coats? I've never sanded between coats, though once in a while after I finish a polish (I wetsand through the micromesh series) I'll find a reason to add a few more coats and refinish. On a few occasions I hurried back in without a good clean and ample time to fully dry (from wetsanding) and totally wrecked my finish (either white spots or blisters or peeling). Now, everything that will get CA'd gets hit with canned air, wiped with acetone, and sits or spins for a while (overnight if I've wetsanded).


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## longbeard (May 15, 2014)

Agree with above. When i do a ca finish, i don't worry about those high spots or ridges, next layer of ca will fill any low spots in. When i'm done putting ca on, i then wet sand to final demension. I do use stickfast accelerator, 2 burst from about 12" to 14" away ( i use satellite city med ca ). Moisture also will cause cloudiness in a ca finish.
Maybe when i get my building put back together, i can do a video.


Harry


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## MikeMD (May 15, 2014)

Tom, I apply the Stickfast at the same speed that I sand it (the slowest speed my Rikon 12" midi will go on the highest speed, but with the VS turned all the way down...which is, I believe around 500-600 rpm). This speed is not fast enough to fling CA everywhere. And no, I don't buff it, but that isn't a "step" in the Stickfast system, either.

Collin and Henry, I'm sanding dry, and blowing off with compressed air (from my compressor, not a can). Again, from watching the video on how to use Stickfast, it doesn't call for any wet sanding. It comes with 400 grit Abarnet, and doesn't mention wet sanding in either the instructions or the video. Henry, when you describe going back in, etc, are you talking about use with Stickfast, or with typical CA?


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## SENC (May 15, 2014)

Mike, I use titebond medium CA, just because I always have.

I will say that everything I've ever heard about sanding CA calls for wetsanding, to keep the temp down


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## JR Custom Calls (May 15, 2014)

I have been using stickfast, but sounds like we go about it a different way. I put 6-8 coats on with a quick shot of accelerator between each coat, wet sand with 2000 grit, polish with a metal polish, then buff. Once I figured out how to sand without removing half the finish, I've been extremely satisfied with the mirror like finish.


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## Fret440 (May 15, 2014)

Fresco!


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## DKMD (May 15, 2014)

I think you just suck at turning and finishing stuff...

Seriously, I've only used the EZ brand of CA, and I don't know the differences between the brands. I've screwed up a lot of finishes, but I've never managed a crackle finish... Kudos!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## manbuckwal (May 15, 2014)

Doing a lil google search , I came across a post on IAP where someone else had it happen with Maple ....... Diff glue brand


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## Cody Killgore (May 15, 2014)

This was on StickFast's wesbite under Customer Tips


Chris Willington

Spider cracks under finish after a few days

"On half of my pens cracking occurred from 2 hours to 5 days after finishing my pens with Stick Fast CA Wood Finish, The cracking was under the top layer and spread throughout the pen blank."


especially occurred at the ends of the pen blank


Findings: The CA Wood Finish was applied too thick and did not completely cure between layers before applying the next layer and then later "spider" cracks occurred under the surface.


Cure: Several thin coats are much better than few thicker coats.


The reason why cracking occurred more at the ends is that Chris was applying even thicker individual coats to build up undersized blanks to match his kit hardware dimensions.


Chris was able to duplicate the cracking when over applying individual layers.

Chris is an avid Pen Turner and sells his pens on line. We appreciate his work on figuring out why the CA Wood Finish was cracking.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1 | Informative 4


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## MikeMD (May 15, 2014)

Well, maybe you found the answer, Cody! I suppose I could be applying too heavily (wouldn't be the first time I've done that with a finish...). The next time I use Stickfast, I'll do my best to apply thin coats to see if that does the trick.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Schroedc (May 15, 2014)

The only other thing that might ever be an issue, you said you use compressed air, If your trap/filter is dirty you could be getting some oil on there unless it's an oilless compressor, Had it happen once with my compressor while spraying enamel, ended up with a mess. Not likely but just one last thing to check....

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## MikeMD (May 15, 2014)

Thanks, Colin. I'll check on that.


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## ChrisN (May 15, 2014)

I've seen the problem of crackling with Stickfast CA glue pop up several times. One time it was attributed to a bad batch of glue. Just FWIW, I've never had this type of crackling on my pens, and I use the EZ brand. I've made several pens with rather thick coats of CA on them, and I haven't had this problem.


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## MikeMD (May 15, 2014)

Hmmmmm, Chris. That isn't an encouraging bit of info. If I bought it once, and the glue was bad, I'm not very likely to go buy it again... So, I hope that isn't it, or I'm done with Stickfast.


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## Schroedc (May 15, 2014)

MikeMD said:


> Hmmmmm, Chris. That isn't an encouraging bit of info. If I bought it once, and the glue was bad, I'm not very likely to go buy it again... So, I hope that isn't it, or I'm done with Stickfast.




I've used almost exclusively stickfast and never an issue FWIW.....

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## rdabpenman (May 15, 2014)

Looks like the CA has been applied too thick and not completely cured before applying another thick coat.

Les

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## duncsuss (May 16, 2014)

I think Les is on the right track.

Medium CA takes longer to cure than it should - and the remnants that are on the paper towel (or whatever you use to apply it) set and cure MUCH faster than the stuff that's on the pen barrel so it's risky to use that as an indicator of when you can move on to the next coat. If you want to prove this to yourself, save an offcut and wipe a drop of CA onto it at the same time as you put a coat on the pen barrels. When you think it should be dry, touch your test panel to see if you stick to it (I did mention to wear latex gloves for this, didn't I? )

Rather than using accelerator, I've adopted a strategy that involves doing something else in between coats of CA. Walk around, tidy up, plan the next project, sharpen and hone my skews. A few minutes away is usually enough.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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