# Which Rosewood is This?



## FranklinWorkshops (Apr 25, 2018)

As I was rearranging lumber in my small storage building today, I found a board I’ve long since forgotten. I bought a long time ago and can’t remember what it is. I’m sure it’s a rosewood but not sure which one. 

Can some ID it? It’s very heavy and sands to an unbelievably smooth surface.


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## phinds (Apr 25, 2018)

can you get a better end grain shot? I can't even tell whether it's ebony or rosewood since I can't see the details at all, just the general size/distribution of the pores (which does suggest rosewood)

Have you compared it to the rosewoods on my site?

You should particularly compare the end grain to the rosewoods here:

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/_anatomy/diffuse porous/rosewood/_rosewood.htm


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## FranklinWorkshops (Apr 25, 2018)

That's the best of several tries to photograph the end-grain. I need one of those super duper electron microscopes like you and Mark must have. The color of the wood has purple shades like some East Indian rosewoods have but this seems heavier to me than the EIR, which I do have. I spent time on your site looking at rosewoods but ended up with even more questions. I'll take it up to Hearne's and see what he says.


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## phinds (Apr 25, 2018)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> That's the best of several tries to photograph the end-grain. I need one of those super duper electron microscopes like you and Mark must have. The color of the wood has purple shades like some East Indian rosewoods have but this seems heavier to me than the EIR, which I do have. I spent time on your site looking at rosewoods but ended up with even more questions. I'll take it up to Hearne's and see what he says.


I just use a regular camera. The trick is to do the end grain sanding quite well. I go to 1200 grit but usually 400 is enough.


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## ripjack13 (Apr 25, 2018)

If you have any magnifying glasses or even a jewlers loupe, you put it in front of the lens of the phone camera and zoom in that way...


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## FranklinWorkshops (Apr 25, 2018)

Okay, let me sand to 1200 and try again. I like the idea of a magnifying glass. Thanks Marc.

Reactions: Like 1


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## phinds (Apr 25, 2018)

ripjack13 said:


> If you have any magnifying glasses or even a jewlers loupe, you put it in front of the lens of the phone camera and zoom in that way...


Good idea. Mark does that and it works reasonably well


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## ripjack13 (Apr 25, 2018)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> Okay, let me sand to 1200 and try again. I like the idea of a magnifying glass. Thanks Marc.



It'll take a lil bit to get it to focus, and depending on what you use, you may need a 3rd hand....


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## ripjack13 (Apr 25, 2018)

phinds said:


> Good idea. Mark does that and it works reasonably well



I have a few mags and even a couple of the cheap clip on lenses for my phone. 
This is the set i bought of amazon...
Link

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Herb G. (Apr 26, 2018)

Now, I'm no expert by any means, but that looks like Kingwood to me. I have some of it that's really purple like that, but mine doesn't have sap wood in it.
Dalbergia cearensis is what I have is called.


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## FranklinWorkshops (Apr 26, 2018)

ripjack13 said:


> I have a few mags and even a couple of the cheap clip on lenses for my phone.
> This is the set i bought of amazon...
> Link
> 
> ...


Thanks, I just ordered this set.

Reactions: Like 1


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## FranklinWorkshops (Apr 26, 2018)

Here is the best I can do. Sanded to 1200g and scanned it at 600 dpi. Zoom in on it as much as you can.

Reactions: Like 1


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## FranklinWorkshops (Apr 26, 2018)

Herb G. said:


> Now, I'm no expert by any means, but that looks like Kingwood to me. I have some of it that's really purple like that, but mine doesn't have sap wood in it.
> Dalbergia cearensis is what I have is called.


You may be right. I do have some kingwood but there is no purple in the boards I have. Like Paul has said many times, these rosewoods vary all over the map as far as colors go.


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## phinds (Apr 26, 2018)

Definitely not kingwood and I thought from the color that it might be dark cocobolo (I"ve seen some this dark) but it's not that either.

It could be E.I. rosewood, possibly Honduran rosewood, and most likely is that it is one of the Dalbergia spp. that are sold as Madagascar rosewood (probably Dalbergia maritima).

Have you compared the end grain to my rosewood anatomy page since you cleaned it up more ? That should definitely rule out kingwood.


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## Mike1950 (Apr 26, 2018)

I have a bunch of kingwood- looks like none of it

Reactions: Agree 1


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## FranklinWorkshops (Apr 26, 2018)

phinds said:


> Definitely not kingwood and I thought from the color that it might be dark cocobolo (I"ve seen some this dark) but it's not that either.
> 
> It could be E.I. rosewood, possibly Honduran rosewood, and most likely is that it is one of the Dalbergia spp. that are sold as Madagascar rosewood (probably Dalbergia maritima).
> 
> Have you compared the end grain to my rosewood anatomy page since you cleaned it up more ? That should definitely rule out kingwood.



When I first surfaced the board, I instantly though EIR because of the purple in the grain. I'll study your end grain photos some more and maybe we can narrow it down. It doesn't look like Honduran to me although some of that is very dark. Madagascar is an interesting possibility. 

I took it out in the sun and got these shots.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Arn213 (Apr 26, 2018)

I would yield towards "Rio", dalbergia nigra.........I can smell it from my monitor and it brings up baseball gum/chocolate/roses goodness .........


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## phinds (Apr 26, 2018)

@FranklinWorkshops, how thick is that piece? I'm assuming 3/4". If that's the case, then I'd say Dalbergia nigra is ruled out because the pore density is noticeably too high. Also, the pores are too small for D. nigra.


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## FranklinWorkshops (Apr 26, 2018)

@phinds 
Paul, the piece shown is 7/8ths thick. Thanks for your help on this.


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## phinds (Apr 26, 2018)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> @phinds
> Paul, the piece shown is 7/8ths thick. Thanks for your help on this.


OK, I THINK we can rule out Dalbergia nigra but given the variability of the Dalbergia's it's still not impossible. I have one piece of D. nigra that is sort of close to yours but all my others are significantly different.


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## FranklinWorkshops (Apr 26, 2018)

The rosewoods are just amazing. As I was cutting some pen blanks just now from that piece, the strong aroma of roses was really special. Brazilian Rosewood has a super strong aroma but I know that this mystery piece is not that holy grail of rosewoods. I have some small pieces of Brazilian Rosewood veneer and sent you a photo of it which is now in your database. Sure wish I could find some of that in my stash.


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## phinds (Apr 26, 2018)

Hm ... I just checked my Brazilian rosewood page and I see that your piece does look a lot like a huge piece that Mark Peet loaned me some time back.

Check out the piece of which this is one of the pics:


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## FranklinWorkshops (Apr 26, 2018)

phinds said:


> Hm ... I just checked my Brazilian rosewood page and I see that your piece does look a lot like a huge piece that Mark Peet loaned me some time back.
> 
> Check out the piece of which this is one of the pics:
> View attachment 146236


I see what you mean. Very interesting. I've had this piece for many years. In the early 1990s, a family run cabinet shop in Philly went out of business. The fifth generation of the family just couldn't keep it going. Several woodworking friends and I put together an offer to buy their remaining inventory of wood. They had over 20K BF of fine hardwoods, many of them tropical. I ended up with 5K BF including many rosewoods, Burmese teak, teak marked as coming from Siam and mahogany from all over Central and South America. As you know Siam changed its name to Thailand in 1939. So this was very old stock. I'm now down to the last few pieces, having sold almost all of it to local shops. So I have no idea when this wood was actually imported.


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## Arn213 (Apr 26, 2018)

These are true “Rio” sample drop offs that I used for fingerboards- these are some of the heartwood colors and there are more colors than you can imagine. Photo’s will never ever take place of a real sample and if you ever mill it, there is a strong sweet aroma that is synonymous to this Dalbergia nigra that other rosewood does not have. It can smell like chewing gum like something off a pack of baseball cards, can smell like chocolate and roses or combination off. There are 2 rosewood that I know by experience that has a “dual reverb” tap tone to it- Dalbergia nigra is one (more focus) and Dalbergia maritima (this has that double reverb, but more “flabby”). I know your sample is too thick, but tap it and tell me if you hear a mono or dual sound projection. 

The salvage “Rio” Rosewood from interior beams or post has a total different smell- it is sweet, but tends to have a more spicy-sweet smell and it tends to strattle a “band-aid” aroma.

Take a black light and see if it “fluorescence”- if it stays true, then it is the real thing.

Indian rosewood does not smell sweet and it smells pungent.

Honduran rosewood smells like a “bag of apples”.


View attachment 146262

View attachment 146263


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## FranklinWorkshops (Apr 26, 2018)

The remaining board I have has some decay and insect damage so I don't think tapping it will tell me anything. I like the black light test. I'll see if my wife still has the one she uses for carpet stain detection. I also have some veneer that looks exactly like some of the pieces in the photos above. I know it is D. nigra... at least it was label as that.


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Apr 26, 2018)

It might be trash rosewood. That stufcbis so cheap, you have to pay someone to take it.


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## FranklinWorkshops (Apr 26, 2018)

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> It might be trash rosewood. That stufcbis so cheap, you have to pay someone to take it.


I know. But you will take it off my hands if I pay for shipping, right? Actually, it's too late. I've already promised it.


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Apr 26, 2018)

No you've been good to me already. Time for good will to somebody else.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Steve Smith (Apr 26, 2018)

Certainly no expert, but I'd guess it's the old non-plantation EI rosewood.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## FranklinWorkshops (Apr 26, 2018)

I pulled out an EIR board tonight and cut the end to see what it smelled like. It was nothing like the fragrance of this mystery rosewood. But the EIR board is likely plantation grown and that may explain the difference. Whatever it is, it’s beautiful. I want to have some pens turned using it.

Reactions: Like 4


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## FranklinWorkshops (Apr 27, 2018)

I took the pen blanks and the remaining part of the board to Rick Hearne's today. His guys said that they are "fairly" sure that it's old growth EIR. It was darker than any they have now but the shades of purple convinced them. So Paul, your first inclination was probably correct. @phinds


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## phinds (Apr 27, 2018)

Good to know. Thanks for solving the mystery

Reactions: Agree 1


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## HistoryPens (Apr 28, 2018)

I would love to make a pen or two out of this wood for you. Looks like it would turn out beautiful.


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## FranklinWorkshops (Apr 28, 2018)

Great. We'll work up a deal when I get back from vacation. Will be gone until May 22. I think I have 10 blanks left and I can trade you some of them plus other blanks you want for a pen made with it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## phinds (Apr 28, 2018)

Larry, if you have any left after your sell/trade, I'd like to get one or two to process for my site. Maybe we can work something out with other items also and make a trade. I've got a fair variety of wood.


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## FranklinWorkshops (Apr 29, 2018)

phinds said:


> Larry, if you have any left after your sell/trade, I'd like to get one or two to process for my site. Maybe we can work something out with other items also and make a trade. I've got a fair variety of wood.


Sure thing. I’ll send you two.


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## phinds (Apr 29, 2018)

Thanks Larry, that's great.


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## RhodesHardwood (Jun 26, 2018)

I would guess this to be Patagonian Rosewood. Aka; Curupau, Anadenanthera colubrina and or kurupay


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## phinds (Jun 26, 2018)

RhodesHardwood said:


> I would guess this to be Patagonian Rosewood. Aka; Curupau, Anadenanthera colubrina and or kurupay


Nope. Zero chance of that. I take it you are not familiar with wood anatomy. The end grain is nothing like Anadenanthera colubrina.

If you'd like to learn more, here's a good place to start:
https://woodbarter.com/threads/wood-anatomy-an-introduction.18349/


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## barefoot (Nov 5, 2018)

Here's what my freshly-sanded Madagascar rosewood (dalbergia maritima--"bois de rose") looks like. No other rosewood, including Kingwood, is as purple.

Reactions: EyeCandy! 1 | Way Cool 2 | Informative 1


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