# Items for sale in a store?



## Sprung (Oct 26, 2015)

I was contacted tonight by the owner of a shop in the town where my wife is from and where her family still lives. She just came across my Facebook page and loves the items I make. She would like to have some in her store, especially with the holidays coming up.

We have only exchanged a few messages and haven't gotten into any details, but I imagine that we'll probably talk on the phone in the next few days to talk about it some more. I haven't done anything like this before, but have been wanting to see about approaching some shops about consigning or buying my items. And before I had a chance to do that - a shop owner came to me!

I haven't much of a clue as to what kind of things we should discuss. Well, I have a few things, but I probably haven't thought of everything.

Anyone here consign in a shop or sell items at wholesale to a shop? If so, what are the details of your agreement? (Or rough details, if you don't want the exact details of your agreement public.) What kind of things should I be considering? What kind of things should we discuss?

I'd love to have this opportunity to be able to sell more of the items I make, but I want to protect myself too so I don't get hosed or lose money in the process.


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## Jerry B (Oct 27, 2015)

I sell in 2 stores here locally ..... terms will vary from each store owner, basic terms described below .....
~ Once items are placed in store, they are responsible (damage / theft / etc) , so I still get paid for everything
~ I set my bottom line price, they mark everything up the % they require (usually 20%+ )
~ I take pictures of everything that's delivered to store, and also have an itemized listing of products, they sign/initial list so we both agree they are actually in possession of said products
~ I cannot post pictures, or sell same items anywhere else, they have exclusivity .....
~ Some will allow a business card/ website address included with purchase, some won't as they don't want customers dealing directly with you.
~ For bowl/platters/vessels that are "food safe" I include a disclaimer of the type of finish used, and I boldly state "Not Responsible for adverse health reactions to finishes used"
(I have yet to have any issues with anyone about the finishes I use ....... Walnut Oils / Walnut Waxes, etc)
~ I go in to store end of each month to collect payment for items that have sold.

Bottom line, cover your butt, make sure you get paid for everything you create, once they have items they are responsible for them
Document all products delivered to them and their conditions (no blemishes, etc) in case something gets cracked/broken, etc.
Don't let them price anything too high with their mark-up that'll over-price the item where it won't sell (greed factor)

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## Schroedc (Oct 27, 2015)

Jerry has pretty much covered the important parts. Making sure they are responsible for any product that goes missing or damaged while in their possession is a biggie. One shop tried to tell me that they had shoplifting issues that caused some missing product and they weren't going to pay for it since they didn't sell it but under the terms of the consignment I held them to it and they had to pay for it (Of course they never did business with me again but probably for the best) 

Also hammer out up front exactly when you get paid for stuff they sell, Around here most places pay the artists on the 15th of the month for stuff sold through the end of the previous month but a few places do it quarterly...

If they are quite a ways away from you and your local market and theirs won't overlap you can have higher prices in their shop than you do at home as folks aren't likely to see your stuff in both places but of course don't want to push the price so high it won't sell. Another thing to consider is to see if they are interested in a wholesale purchase. I do that with a couple places, they get a little better price than my retail, I get paid up front and they are completely responsible for the product at that point.

I've managed to steer clear of exclusivity agreements as I would rather not limit what I can sell in other places (I have my own retail gallery as well) BUT if they want something unique for their place I'll work out a style/design just for them on a wholesale basis.

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## Graybeard (Oct 27, 2015)

Really great information already given. I'd get to know the people and visit their store as much as possible to see what kind of business they have. I have some items in a nice store and they sell whatever I give them. They don't mark it up much because my wife does their displays and I don't think they want to loose her. Since I've worked in customer service my whole life I now do what I want, no orders. That doesn't mean they don't ask, they're learning however. Just something to think about.

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## Sprung (Oct 27, 2015)

Gentlemen, thank you very much for the input! Some things you covered I'd already been thinking about, others I hadn't thought about and they're things I should be thinking about.

I will be speaking on the phone with the shop's owner this afternoon. Turns out it was my wife's aunt who recommended my items to her. My wife's aunt works two doors down from this shop. (Which means my mother-in-law works about a block and a half down the road from this shop.) My wife doesn't know the owner, but is familiar with the business and it sounds like a good, well run shop that is doing good business, even already in its first year of being open.

The one challenge is that this shop is not local to me. It is about 400 miles away in my wife's hometown in Illinois, where her family still lives. I definitely do not have the time to be able to take off for two or three days to work something out in person and the next time I'll be in the area down there is next summer, likely in July. She's interested in having my items in her store soon, for the holiday shopping season. And, if it works out, I'd like to have my items in her store on the same timetable. On the plus side, with family in the area, it would not be difficult to have them stop in her shop and check on things from time to time.

She did tell me that she does 30% commission. I was hoping for 20% or 25%, but 30% isn't a deal breaker for me - just means I will have to price my items accordingly for sale in her shop, while also being cautious as to not price items too highly so that they don't sell.


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## Schroedc (Oct 27, 2015)

Sprung said:


> Gentlemen, thank you very much for the input! Some things you covered I'd already been thinking about, others I hadn't thought about and they're things I should be thinking about.
> 
> I will be speaking on the phone with the shop's owner this afternoon. Turns out it was my wife's aunt who recommended my items to her. My wife's aunt works two doors down from this shop. (Which means my mother-in-law works about a block and a half down the road from this shop.) My wife doesn't know the owner, but is familiar with the business and it sounds like a good, well run shop that is doing good business, even already in its first year of being open.
> 
> ...



30% isn't too bad. Around here most galleries and shops are 30% up to as much as 50% Plus look at the income level of the area her shop is in. That can help dictate the prices the market will bear.

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## Sprung (Oct 27, 2015)

Schroedc said:


> Plus look at the income level of the area her shop is in. That can help dictate the prices the market will bear.



Very good thing to consider! And since my wife is from the area and we are familiar with the area, that knowledge will certainly help with setting prices. It's a mostly middle class, working area, but an area that also sees some decent tourist traffic. (We're not talking Chicago - Chicago is 3 hours away from there.) I may consign a pen or two in the higher dollar range, but expect those may sit for a while - but that the higher price may make the others look like an even better value.


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## TimR (Oct 27, 2015)

Sounds like you got some good info. I'll echo what @Schroedc said about the 30%...what I get from a local shop. We settle up once a month, either by mail or my stopping in...usually the latter. What I like is that I can go pull whatever I have in there at any time for a show, or to sell outside the shop, without any issues or 'fee'. They've been good about drumming up commissioned items also.
I had another experiment with a shop earlier in the year, who was just getting into selling 'art'. I never got a 'contract', but it was all verbal, though it bothered me that he told me he sold an item but never sent a check. It's a 35 minute drive, so I finally decided to just pull my items and collect my check. Turned out that of 6 items I had there, which were mostly nice sized premium wood bowls, 2 had sold and one was missing. He wrote me a check for the 2 sold items and missing item, and I pulled the rest.

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## duncsuss (Oct 27, 2015)

Sprung said:


> The one challenge is that this shop is not local to me. It is about 400 miles away in my wife's hometown in Illinois, where her family still lives. I definitely do not have the time to be able to take off for two or three days to work something out in person ...



Skype.

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## Sprung (Oct 27, 2015)

duncsuss said:


> Skype.



Hadn't thought of that! That might be a very good option for checking out the store and working out details better, without being there in person.


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## Jerry B (Oct 27, 2015)

Sprung said:


> She did tell me that she does 30% commission. I was hoping for 20% or 25%, but 30% isn't a deal breaker for me


Just as Colin says, 30% is fairly reasonable, and I too have seen people paying as much as 40-50%, which IMHO is too much just for displaying a product.
I should clarify, the "exclusivity" rights I've allowed are only for other stores, I can still post/sell items out of house & E-Commerce website, I refuse to relinquish that option ;-)
I live in a tourist type town (Hoover Dam) so prices in stores are generally 50-75% higher than I sell from house or on website, but the tourista's love buying items made by local artisans 
You'll have to barter with all the details, as with anything else, but make sure the deal is _good for you_ since you're doing _all the work_ and they're just a middle-man.
And I'd take a weekend if possible to visit the store and see what kind of stuff they sell, and how popular the store is with folks ........ know your retail outlet before you commit to anything

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## Kevin (Oct 27, 2015)

This may sound crazy (and maybe it is) but my hunch is, if a guy could get a website set up that targeted Chinese servers to sell high quality American made products - he could stay sold out and charge cosmic prices to boot. While the Chinese economy is slowing down, they still have almost as many millionaires and they definitely have the largest middle class on the planet. And the Chinese love American, German, and Italian products specifically. 

You'd have to hire a Chinese or better yet, and Indian that is fluent in Chinese writing systems. India is full of smart educated guys & gals who work cheap. I realize this is way off topic but if you want a challenge . . . .

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## Sprung (Oct 27, 2015)

Kevin said:


> This may sound crazy (and maybe it is) but my hunch is, if a guy could get a website set up that targeted Chinese servers to sell high quality American made products - he could stay sold out and charge cosmic prices to boot. While the Chinese economy is slowing down, they still have almost as many millionaires and they definitely have the largest middle class on the planet. And the Chinese love American, German, and Italian products specifically.
> 
> You'd have to hire a Chinese or better yet, and Indian that is fluent in Chinese writing systems. India is full of smart educated guys & gals who work cheap. I realize this is way off topic but if you want a challenge . . . .



I've already learned three languages that aren't based on the Roman Alphabet. Now you're telling me I should try to learn another?!?!? 

(Actually, that's probably not a bad idea you've got there, but probably well out of what I'd be willing to commit myself to doing at this time. Though I do have some friends who are fluent in Chinese - even a few who live in China right now...)

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## barry richardson (Oct 27, 2015)

Great thread, lots of good info. I have only sold in a couple of stores, and they were people I know, so I avoided all the legal stuff, just a verbal agreement, which worked fine in those situations, but sadly, as said above, you have to cover your butt these days, in general, hand shake deals and gentlemens agreements seem to be a thing of the past....

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## Kevin (Oct 27, 2015)

Sprung said:


> I've already learned three languages that aren't based on the Roman Alphabet.



You know we gotta know what they are. I'm gonna guess French, Spanish, and since you live where you live Canadian too.


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## Sprung (Oct 27, 2015)

Kevin said:


> You know we gotta know what they are. I'm gonna guess French, Spanish, and since you live where you live Canadian too.



Not even close! ;) But, Canadian is easy. Just throw a bunch of random "eh"s in there.

Classical Greek, Ancient Hebrew, and Aramaic. Then you can round that out with German and Latin, which are both based on the Roman Alphabet (as is English, obviously). And no matter what language, I can't spell right in any of them!  At least English affords me the easy use of a spell checker, lol. I can still work with all of them to varying extents, and still do work with some frequently, but I'm definitely no master at any of them either.

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## duncsuss (Oct 27, 2015)

Sprung said:


> Classical Greek, Ancient Hebrew, and Aramaic ... I can still work with all of them to varying extents, and still do work with some frequently, but I'm definitely no master at any of them either.


I try to keep from forgetting all the Norwegian I learned by reading a couple of online newspapers a week (I think it helps.)

Are there any websites you can visit to keep your Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic from getting rusty?

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## Kevin (Oct 27, 2015)

Matt that's impressive. Did you choose those languages for missionary work? Sorry I'm going way off topic.


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## Sprung (Oct 27, 2015)

duncsuss said:


> Are there any websites you can visit to keep your Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic from getting rusty?



There aren't, but that's because I still use them. My German and Latin are extremely rusty though. I can pull my resources off my shelves and work through German and Latin still, but it's very slow going.



Kevin said:


> Matt that's impressive. Did you choose those languages for missionary work? Sorry I'm going way off topic.



Eh, off topic is the norm here, lol - no worries! Thank you. And, yes, I did, and still use them. It's always nice to go back and read things in the original text, you get a much better picture of what the original language says, rather than so many word pictures and cultural differences that get lost or jumbled in translation. Days where I'm spending a good chunk of time in studying in other languages, I find myself taking frequent mental breaks and hoping on here and other sites for a few minutes to give my brain a break and clear it out for more work.

Between high school, college, and grad school, I have had somewhere around 40 semesters of language study, not including English classes.

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## duncsuss (Oct 27, 2015)

Sprung said:


> It's always nice to go back and read things in the original text, you get a much better picture of what the original language says, rather than so many word pictures and cultural differences that get lost or jumbled in translation.


I ran into "the real comprehension barrier" in Norway when I finally learned enough Norwegian to understand what people were saying. I understood the literal meaning of their words, but I had none of their collective cultural history so I didn't get the implicit references. I grew up understanding that "You want some more?" was a reference to Oliver Twist, and "Aye, there's the rub" a reference to Hamlet, but I had no knowledge of the Norwegian equivalents (even those works of Ibsen, Bjørnson, Hamsun, etal that I'd read were translations so I didn't recognize the original language.)

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## Sprung (Oct 27, 2015)

duncsuss said:


> I ran into "the real comprehension barrier" in Norway when I finally learned enough Norwegian to understand what people were saying. I understood the literal meaning of their words, but I had none of their collective cultural history so I didn't get the implicit references. I grew up understanding that "You want some more?" was a reference to Oliver Twist, and "Aye, there's the rub" a reference to Hamlet, but I had no knowledge of the Norwegian equivalents (even those works of Ibsen, Bjørnson, Hamsun, etal that I'd read were translations so I didn't recognize the original language.)



That is exactly the universal problem when going between languages and cultures. Always a challenge! It does help when you study the culture alongside the language - certainly helps make everything more meaningful and easier to understand. (And, oh, how much we all take for granted in our own language, lol!)

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## Sprung (Oct 27, 2015)

Well, I just got off the phone with the shop owner. We had a good conversation and I got good answers to the questions I had. She's going to send me a copy of the contract she uses later so I can read through it and we can continue talking. The items she's most interested in are wine bottle stoppers and beer bottle openers, but would love to have some pens too - she really likes the bolt action. So, I doubt I'll be sending anything in the $100+ range, but it does sound like it could be a good outlet for some of the items I make, which would be great. Wine and beer (but especially wine) items are huge sellers for her.

And, even if we don't work out a deal, she's already said she'll be a customer - she has a couple items she saw on my page that she wants to buy for herself and her husband, regardless of us working out a consignment agreement.

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## barry richardson (Oct 27, 2015)

Sprung said:


> There aren't, but that's because I still use them. My German and Latin are extremely rusty though. I can pull my resources off my shelves and work through German and Latin still, but it's very slow going.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Impressive indeed! You have some serious gray matter my man.....

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## Sprung (Oct 27, 2015)

barry richardson said:


> Impressive indeed! You have some serious gray matter my man.....



My wife might tell you otherwise!

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## Tony (Oct 27, 2015)

Very cool deal Matt, congrats

I've had stuff in a few stores, but I can't think of anything helpful to say that hasn't been covered already. I would suggest putting a couple of high-end items in, you might be surprised!



Kevin said:


> Matt that's impressive. Did you choose those languages for missionary work? Sorry I'm going way off topic.



I'm sure he learned Greek because it's an awesome language!!!!! Tony

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## Sprung (Oct 27, 2015)

Tony said:


> I'm sure he learned Greek because it's an awesome language!!!!!



I read that and, for some reason, remembered one of those old rhymes that my high school classmates and I would use on occasion in regards to Latin class!

"Latin is a dead language, as dead as dead can be. It killed off all the Romans, and now it's killing me!"

Don't know why I thought of that in connection to the Greek language, but I did, lol!

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## Patrude (Oct 28, 2015)

I sell to one shop, it's a fabric and sewing shop that my wife frequents. Started with seam rippers and expanded to other sewing related items. They love my work, and gave me the use of space to display my work. The seam rippers remain a standing order for which I sell in lots of ten. No special reason for this amount, just I like groups of ten. Other items on consignment & we talk my base price. They also advertise my business card & arrange for custom orders. We met by chance and do our business with only a handshake . Every item I bring there is accompanied by a card saying Hand turned especially for ****** Fabrics by me. If a pc. Doesn't move they'll hold it till my next visit. Anything from pens to bowls , turned boxes & whatever I find in the wood. Yup, I'm very lucky

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## David Hill (Oct 30, 2015)

I haven't done much with stores but have done business with a local museum that has a gift shop/store. What was easiest was for me to sell them at the lowest price I could stand and then they marked up from there. Works well for me--my name is on it and has resulted in sales other than there.
Now another fella has opened an upscale (for here) and wants to have my items there too. Haven't had the work out particulars talk yet, but sounds like leaning toward a consignment kind'a deal.
Other than that will continue with Market/Trade day things---after all this is s'posed to be _fun_.

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## The PenSmith (Oct 30, 2015)

I have my work in 8 galleries and gift shops however all are direct purchase (no consignment). Because my wife and I do art shows I am actually looking for more wholesale accounts so we can slow down/stop shows. I always factor in $1,000 per show in expenses, booth fee, meals, gas, hotel and pet sitter) and it comes very close to that for almost all shows. Far and away our pepper and salt grinders are the most popular, when I get a request for my work in a store I have a minimum of 12 mills. This prevents the buyer who is just looking for a few family/friends gifts and wanting a discount. 

I don't consign anything for the exact reasons already stated, they normally pay via credit card or check and I give them 40% off retail, I ship the first order free and a flat $10 on all future orders. I have no push back with my business practices and I have a nice stream of orders. Our philosophy is we don't have to go out, set up/break down the tent, stand in the tent all day and struggle with sales, I only have to make the inventory, put it in a box and let UPS pick it up!!

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## duncsuss (Nov 9, 2015)

@Schroedc - Colin, I just read this thread over on IAP, hope nothing like this happens to you ... LINK

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## Schroedc (Nov 9, 2015)

duncsuss said:


> @Schroedc - Colin, I just read this thread over on IAP, hope nothing like this happens to you ... LINK



Ouch, I've heard horror stories from artists in other mediums (Jewelry/photography/painting/etc.) but the closest I ever got was a shop owner passed away suddenly and with the lease renewal being up on the space the family just boxed everything up and put it into storage to get out of the space, couldn't find her books and it was a mess. I finally called the courthouse after hearing what happened and located the executor for the estate (Figured it'd go through probate so somebody had to know what was going on) Turned out quite a bit better than I expected, the executor had me into the storage space to go through and locate my product and based on my drop off sheet figure out what was sold and get listed as a creditor to the estate. The really good thing about it was I recognized work by a number of other artists and was able to separate their stuff out and put the estate in contact with them to get stuff picked up and payment made to them too. Yes, it took almost 8 months to get paid but I didn't lose my stuff or payment.

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## Kevin (Nov 9, 2015)

duncsuss said:


> @Schroedc - Colin, I just read this thread over on IAP, hope nothing like this happens to you ... LINK



Wow that really sucks for John and everyone else that the owner of the shop screwed. It was theft - pure and simple.

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## duncsuss (Nov 9, 2015)

Kevin said:


> It was theft - pure and simple.


Couldn't agree more.

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## Sprung (Nov 12, 2015)

Duncan, I saw that thread too - always hate seeing stuff like that...

So far it's a no go on the consignment deal for me. Haven't heard from her since our phone conversation. She was supposed to e-mail me, but hasn't. I followed up with another reply to our facebook messages - where she initially contacted me - and haven't received a reply. Even if she contacts me, at this point I'm wary of doing business with her. If she wants to buy some items for herself, or even work out a wholesale deal, fine. But I won't be consigning with her. (And I'm assuming she's seen the message - I checked the shop's facebook page and she's been active on it with several posts since my last message to her, so it's not that she hasn't been on facebook.)

Oh well... I'll see about checking out some more local stores and see what I might be able to work out with someone more local, that I can visit in person.


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## Kevin (Nov 12, 2015)

Matt, I am not speaking from experience here -- okay well a little -- I did put some of my humidors and a blanket chest on consignment in a local indoor swap shop thing a quarter of a century ago to get started, but IMO consignment is only good for that. To get started or for someone who makes a lot of smaller ticket items like you make but has enough capital to spread the products far and wide through mom and pop shops and regional convenience store chains and wait for the investment in yourself to come slowly rolling back in. In return for you financing their shelf space, they will give you the premium POS space for you products. You do not fit into that category, nor do I, nor do 99% of the people on our forum. 

Also, your personality is not suited to this type of marketing scheme and that is a big consideration. I am not taking a cheap shot at you by any means. You are one of the nicest guys on this forum. I know you're a big dude, but you don't have a mean bone in your body and you would not be the type to try and force someone to pay you if they screwed you even though you would be in the right. I am not a mean guy like that either I would just rather walk away. Another reason I would never accept a consignment arrangement. Too much hassle. 

Your stuff is high enough quality to stand on its own you don't need to beg for shelf space. JMO.

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## duncsuss (Nov 12, 2015)

Sprung said:


> Duncan, I saw that thread too - always hate seeing stuff like that...



Matt -- I'm sorry for being a total space cadet. For whatever reason, I had it in my head that this was a thread started by Colin, which is why I tagged and addressed my post to him instead of you.

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## Sprung (Nov 12, 2015)

Yeah, I'm not going to go around begging for shelf space - but I do want to check out some local shops. I think it'll be far easier to work something out if I can show items in person and speak face to face and check out their shop and the way they treat customers. Been keeping my eye out for some somewhat local shops recently that might be good places for high quality, handcrafted items and have noticed more than I thought I would find. But, that shop in my wife's hometown, well, I'm not going to chase the owner down for a little bit of shelf space, especially since despite her apparent interest, she never contacted me again. I prefer to do business with people that have their act together.

I'm usually a nice guy, but sometimes there's that person who really gets on my bad side and sees it differently - just ask the front desk clerk at the first hotel we were at in Kansas City! After blowing me off on a huge problem with our room, he got an earful from me - as did his manager over the phone. (Done in as "nice" of a manner as possible - I'm not a fan of foul language as it's crude and never helps your cause!) Less than two hours after getting to that hotel, I had our money refunded and had my family settled into a different hotel with a good deal on a last minute reservation found at 11PM that night! (That said, you're right, I'm not going to go around forcing people and being the "tough guy" to get people to pay me - that's not how I roll. I've been bullied by far too many people in my life to go out and bully someone else.)



Kevin said:


> Your stuff is high enough quality to stand on its own you don't need to beg for shelf space. JMO.



Thank you, Kevin. I'm very confident in the quality of my work, but just haven't found a good stride or avenue for selling it yet - I'm averaging 1 to 3 pens sold a month, occasionally 4 or 5, since I started selling them a year ago. Before we left on vacation I counted and I have 50 pens that I'd like to sell, in addition to a number of other items. My wife is starting to give me "the look" every time I come out of the shop with some more pens without having sold any! I've given away far more pens than I've sold - which I enjoy doing, but also makes it hard to keep my hobby paying for itself or from trying to add a little more to our son's (well, now sons' !) education fund.



duncsuss said:


> Matt -- I'm sorry for being a total space cadet. For whatever reason, I had it in my head that this was a thread started by Colin, which is why I tagged and addressed my post to him instead of you.



Lol! No worries, Duncan!

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## Kevin (Nov 12, 2015)

Matt don't give up. It's a long walk to get to the ocean. You're going to get there. You have the right attitude. 

P.S. I probably chose the wrong word when I intimated you were "begging" for shelf space. I didn't mean it that way at all.

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## Sprung (Nov 12, 2015)

Kevin said:


> P.S. I probably chose the wrong word when I intimated you were "begging" for shelf space. I didn't mean it that way at all.



Nah - I didn't take it that way! The way you used the word "beg" it in that last line in your previous post I saw as a compliment to the quality of my work - a way of saying that my work speaks for itself, rather than me having to try and go beg some shelf space for something of lack-luster quality.

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