# Pheasantwood vs Wenge



## Byron Barker (Jul 28, 2019)

Has anyone got a good way to distinguish the two? I did a thorough web search and found nothing. I bought the pieces shown below in Taiwan and the name listed on them was "Iron Knife" in Chinese ( 鐵刀木). After a websearch, this name refers to _Cassia Siamea _(Pheasantwood), but can also refer to Wenge. The Chinese is identical apart from putting "African" in front of Iron Knife. It doesn't help the woods look nearly the same. After looking at pics of the two woods, I am honestly at a loss. My guess is it is Pheasantwood simply because I am in an area where it grows, but I can't help but think it doesn't 100% match. Any wisdom from you pros? Using it for bow making either way since it has got nice grain.

Reactions: EyeCandy! 1


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## Byron Barker (Jul 28, 2019)

Pieces have water on them by the way.


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## phinds (Jul 28, 2019)

Hm ... that wood doesn't look to me very much like either one except for the color looking exactly like wenge and not much like pheasantwood. Perhaps they are all quartersawn and that's what's throwing me? They do look like quartersawn wenge (or possibly panga panga ... see next post)

At any rate, aside from the color, which is usually enough to tell them apart (pheasantwood has some orange in it and wenge is gray/black), the end grains are fairly distinguishable.

Pheasantwood has a higher pore density and thinner confluent parenchyma. These are my standard 1/4" square end grain cross sections









You can also just compare them to the pics of each on my pages:

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/wenge.htm

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/pheasantwood, hawaiian.htm

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## phinds (Jul 28, 2019)

Oh, and I should also mention that they might well be panga panga, which usually has the same coloration as wenge but MAY look at bit more like pheasantwood, and it also has the thinner confluent parenchyma of pheasantwood which is how you distinguish it from wenge. Pore distribution on panga panga seems to have a wider range than on either of the other two so is not a good distinguishing characteristic although in general it tends to have the less dense pore distribution of wenge.





http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/panga panga.htm

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## phinds (Jul 28, 2019)

And by the way @Byron Barker I suggest that in general if you are trying to determine if a wood is some specific wood, just look at the pics on my page for that wood. I think you'll usually find that more helpful than a random internet search.

Also, Eric Meier's site (The Wood Database) is also helpful although his example pics are EXTREMELY limited --- generally two or three whereas I can have dozens to hundreds.

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## Byron Barker (Jul 28, 2019)

Thanks as usual! Your page was actually the first I checked, but the variation within each one of those woods is so great, I just couldn't make heads or tails of it. Ad this new wood Pangapanga to it and it looks like the best bet is pour size. I will look and compare to your pics. Thanks a ton!

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## phinds (Jul 28, 2019)

Byron Barker said:


> ... it looks like the best bet is pour size.


Not sure what good it will do you to pour the wood. My suggestion would be to look at the pore size.

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## Nature Man (Jul 28, 2019)

@Don Ratcliff


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## Byron Barker (Jul 28, 2019)

phinds said:


> Not sure what good it will do you to pour the wood. My suggestion would be to look at the pore size.


Ouch...and I'm teaching English. Been living abroad too long!

Reactions: Funny 4


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## rocky1 (Jul 28, 2019)

Da grammar police done got ya! And, you da English teacher!! Oh My!! That's funny right there...

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Hugo (Jan 2, 2021)

@Byron Barker 
Since your original post brought me here (via google) I thought I would ask if you've had better success telling the difference between the two? I'm in the same boat... I'm offered (in Taiwan) what looks like wenge and I'm just not sure if it's actually pheasantwood. I'm dumber than most and the end grains look so similar to me that @phinds excellent post and pics haven't helped. i have lots of wenge (or pheasant wood) now. Pics available if you like.


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## Byron Barker (Jan 2, 2021)

Yeah, that initially confused me a lot, but after working with Taiwanese pheasantwood and other similar woods offered here, I can tell you that they would sell you Wenge if that is what they said it was. They have loads of imported wood available that is often less common Stateside. Maybe there is less restrictions or they are getting it from China, I don't know, but there is a lot coming in. Do you have the Chinese name? When I was initially looking into it, Paul let me know what I had bought was most likely a very similar species to Wenge and not actually Wenge. After buying a whole lot of wood sold as Taiwanese Pheasantwood, there is a HUGE difference between the two. Personally, I would take the Taiwanese pheasantwood over Wenge any day of the week. Lovely stuff that is full of color and grain variation. To confuse matters though, there is a third wood that is often sold here from both Africa and China that has a similar Chinese name as pheasantwood, but is actually another wood entirely. It is often called "Chicken Wing wood". Personally, it looks boring to me as well and is just highly feathered. The tree also grows very large, so larger pieces of it can be found, whereas pheasantwood tends to be pretty small from the trees and wood available that I've seen. However, this wood, like Wenge is always an import. I doubt they would import Pheasantwood when it grow naturally and is not all that uncommon. So, in the future, you could ask if the wood is imported or not. That should be a quick solution to the ID problem. You have a pic?

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## Hugo (Jan 2, 2021)

Thanks. I thought Chicken Wing Wood *is* Wenge. Pics of my wenge (or not) attached:
I know some of these pics are probably worthless. I will try to get better ones. Pics 2, 3, and 4 are the same piece. Last 2 pics are of a half-log I will buy.

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## Byron Barker (Jan 2, 2021)

Definitely Wenge! Slabs at least, can't ID the log sections at all. Wenge sometimes uses the name "Chicken wing wood" also, but usually goes by the name "Iron knife wood"...if I remember right. I usually just remember the characters, not what they mean. You'll love Taiwanese Acacia Confusa! Lovely stuff. Get some Zelkova too. Also, it would be well worth your time to get some Lychee wood. It is all over the West Coast. You can buy from orchards that cut their old trees for like 20NT per kg.

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## Byron Barker (Jan 2, 2021)

I'm pretty sure that mystery wood there is Narra. Shoot me pics of anything you can't ID. I've gotten pretty good at sorting through what's available here by this point.

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## Mr. Peet (Jan 2, 2021)

Byron Barker said:


> I'm pretty sure that mystery wood there is Narra. Shoot me pics of anything you can't ID. I've gotten pretty good at sorting through what's available here by this point.



Byron, I had missed the start of this thread, now 2 years ago, but Pheasantwood (50+/- lbs./cu.ft.) is lighter than Wenge (54 +/- lbs./cu.ft.) on average. I also feel that Wenge is more brittle and finds its way into my fingers easier (splinters). I have little experience with either so observations stand on little.


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## barry richardson (Jan 2, 2021)

I will just add that I agree that they are remarkably the same, I was gifted some pheasant wood and the person who have it to me said he was certain of it, but everything about it said Wenge to me. I turned something out of it and it behaved like wenge as well, so good luck on the ID lol...

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## Hugo (Jan 2, 2021)

I will take better pics tomorrow and post them.


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## phinds (Jan 2, 2021)

barry richardson said:


> I will just add that I agree that they are remarkably the same, I was gifted some pheasant wood and the person who have it to me said he was certain of it, but everything about it said Wenge to me. I turned something out of it and it behaved like wenge as well, so good luck on the ID lol...


Although face grains CAN be hard to distinguish, wenge and pheasantwood are easy to distinguish by end grain. See post #3

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## Arn213 (Jan 2, 2021)

I have work experience with African Wenge and Pheasant wood from Hawaii (it’s called kolohala). The surface grain/make up is similar in both and coloration. The difference is density and hardness- the African Wenge is noticeably slightly harder and heavier. Per @phinds stated the end grain cellular structure is the best way to tell them apart...........like Brazilian Pernambuco versus Mexican Paela where they look identical physically. The only way to tell them apart is looking at the end grain structure and/or the dye test where pernambuco will have a blush color bleed and the Paela will have non.

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## Byron Barker (Jan 2, 2021)

Yes, I noticed that as well. The wenge was harder, heavier and had splintery grains all over. I also noted there overall color is normally darker especially when compared to the local pheasantwood. The pheasantwood here won't be so uniform in color and has lots of yellows, golden browns and even purple and red inside. Notably different surface as well when sanding. 


Mr. Peet said:


> Byron, I had missed the start of this thread, now 2 years ago, but Pheasantwood (50+/- lbs./cu.ft.) is lighter than Wenge (54 +/- lbs./cu.ft.) on average. I also feel that Wenge is more brittle and finds its way into my fingers easier (splinters). I have little experience with either so observations stand on little.

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## Arn213 (Jan 2, 2021)

Byron Barker said:


> Yes, I noticed that as well. The wenge was harder, heavier and had splintery grains all over. I also noted there overall color is normally darker especially when compared to the local pheasantwood. The pheasantwood here won't be so uniform in color and has lots of yellows, golden browns and even purple and red inside. Notably different surface as well when sanding.



Your correct about the color difference and @phinds confirmed that in one of his post. The African Wenge to me has 2 tone coloration from really dark chocolate to medium-dark colored chocolate. It is also porous and I can confirm that because I have an electric guitar fretboard out of it. I am going to post a photo and the white stuff you see on the pores are not “silica content.” They are from the fingernail skin breaks from fretting the fingerboard when playing. I need to get a tooth brush and then apply finger board conditioner. Can also confirm what @Mr. Peet remarked about the wood being brittle- this is true and it is splintery

I am going to warn you on the Wenge- please use proper respiratory equipment when you work with this wood. You can get really bad allergies and two cabinet makers that I know have bad allergies from the result of working a lot from it- they will not touch it and work with it again is what they told me.

Here is the African Wenge on my fretboard- no flash use, fluorescent lights with an iPhone. This is typical color for Wenge. I took a close up shot of the nut end so you can see the cross section of the end grain (not great, but you can see some of the pores):

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## phinds (Jan 2, 2021)

Arn213 said:


> The African Wenge ... is splintery


I think "splintery" doesn't really do it justice. I've gotten severe splinters just by LOOKING at it.

Reactions: Funny 3 | Informative 1


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## Hugo (Jan 3, 2021)

@Arn213 Thank you for the heads up and the reminder to be careful. Much appreciated. Does it work out well for you as a fretboard? Do you prefer it to rosewood and ebony?


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## Arn213 (Jan 3, 2021)

Hugo said:


> @Arn213 Thank you for the heads up and the reminder to be careful. Much appreciated. Does it work out well for you as a fretboard? Do you prefer it to rosewood and ebony?



Thanks @Hugo. This is going to be a long read and a long answer as everything is correlated. To be perfectly honest, it was not my personal preference for a fretboard. The only reason I tried it is because there is a well known respected luthier, Ervin Somogyi who had a really interesting article which I recommend for any individuals new to lutherie to read it titled, “Using Wenge as a Guitar Tonewood”. Here is the link:


Using Wenge as a Guitar Wood – Ervin Somogyi



His findings and my confirmation (having put it to work) on Wenge is spot on being “lively and rings like a plate of glass, steel......”. All genuine rosewood have this “tap tone response”. Some have a quicker response, resonance and varies in degree of brightness (plink like response) depending on the density level and how much of it being vertical grain- that is my personal take on that. Just like everything else, all the woods selected have to work together as a whole based on the tonal profile you are after.

What I am saying is this and this is related to electric guitars- you cannot isolate the sound of a fretboard and be able to tell what species it is because there so many things that are going on as you have the pickups, the amplifiers, the pedals and then the live mix with a band. Having said that, certain combination of wood ingredients with specific pickups and scale length, type of a guitar usually has a specific tonal outcome.

Specific fretboard are desirable for certain style of guitars. I know you mentioned ebony. There is a reason why arch top jazz boxes/hollow body uses ebony as fretboard material- jazz guitarist is not looking for sustain. When they do note by note solos, fills, etc. they want the note to be immediate/snappy and not have sustain.

I am a traditionalist and purist in some sense, but I am also open to using new wood species for guitars. If I had to do it again, I would have picked Brazilian rosewood,
Brazilian “Amazon” rosewood, Madagascar rosewood which is medium (Brazilian rosewood and Madagascar) to medium high density range (Amazon). Fretboard selection is influence too by the neck material as this is the “most important” wood component in electric guitars. I would have not paired ebony as the neck shaft wood fretboard has high frequency already and it would have resulted in a slightly brighter guitar- which I did not want.

All the statement I made above is based on experience and yes, my personal preference. The school of thought will “vary” from one builder to the next or one musician from another.

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## Hugo (Jan 4, 2021)

Arn213 said:


> Thanks @Hugo. This is going to be a long read and a long answer as everything is correlated. To be perfectly honest, it was not my personal preference for a fretboard. The only reason I tried it is because there is a well known respected luthier, Ervin Somogyi who had a really interesting article which I recommend for any individuals new to lutherie to read it titled, “Using Wenge as a Guitar Tonewood”. Here is the link:
> 
> 
> Using Wenge as a Guitar Wood – Ervin Somogyi
> ...


@Arn213 Good read. Thanks. I had no idea I would get such comprehensive answers.


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## phinds (Jan 4, 2021)

Hugo said:


> @Arn213 Good read. Thanks. I had no idea I would get such comprehensive answers.


Stick around. You'll be amazed at how much stuff we can just make up.

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## Hugo (Jan 4, 2021)

Some pics attached. Had to use my phone camera. I hope they are good enough. Pics 1~6 are the same piece. 7~10 are from a 2nd piece (9 & 10 is end grain of the 2nd piece)


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## Hugo (Jan 4, 2021)

Byron Barker said:


> I'm pretty sure that mystery wood there is Narra. Shoot me pics of anything you can't ID. I've gotten pretty good at sorting through what's available here by this point.


The mystery wood pics:
Actually I just posted and deleted. I don't want to add an unrelated wood to the thread. Should I PM you with pics or post somewhere?


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## barry richardson (Jan 4, 2021)

Hugo said:


> The mystery wood pics:
> Actually I just posted and deleted. I don't want to add an unrelated wood to the thread. Should I PM you with pics or post somewhere?


So what is the wood in your pictures Hugo? Phesant wood?


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## Hugo (Jan 4, 2021)

barry richardson said:


> So what is the wood in your pictures Hugo? Phesant wood?


@barry richardson hi. this question is what started my quest. As far as I can tell it is Wenge. Waiting for the experts though. Of course, I should just sit and study all the pics of end grains posted above and compare.

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## Byron Barker (Jan 4, 2021)

Arn213 said:


> Thanks @Hugo. This is going to be a long read and a long answer as everything is correlated. To be perfectly honest, it was not my personal preference for a fretboard. The only reason I tried it is because there is a well known respected luthier, Ervin Somogyi who had a really interesting article which I recommend for any individuals new to lutherie to read it titled, “Using Wenge as a Guitar Tonewood”. Here is the link:
> 
> 
> Using Wenge as a Guitar Wood – Ervin Somogyi
> ...


You should try the acacia confusa we've got here. Seems like it would be good for that.


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## Byron Barker (Jan 7, 2021)

This is that third wood I was telling you about that they call "chicken wing wood". I can't remember the common name anymore. Very lackluster, but displays a similar feathering.

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## Byron Barker (Jan 7, 2021)

Here's a news article getting into which "chicken wing wood" you might be getting if you buy wood with that name in Taiwan. https://kknews-cc.cdn.ampproject.or...mpshare=https://kknews.cc/culture/9ommvq.html


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## Mr. Peet (Jan 7, 2021)

Pretty pictures but I don't speak the language....

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## Hugo (Jan 7, 2021)

@Byron Barker I am now thoroughly confused after translating that. Thanks though! I can see the similarities.

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