# Mo v CA



## Diver Temple (Mar 2, 2019)

Well, plenty of errors trying to use CA on a blank with tight bead contours. Not sure if it was this Florida humidity or what, but couldn't get the CA to set up without crystallizing and needing to be sanded out time after time...will work it again tomorrow. In the meantime, finished these two pens for my daughter-in-law and grand daughter.

Reactions: EyeCandy! 9 | Way Cool 3


----------



## Nature Man (Mar 2, 2019)

Exquisite times two! Chuck

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 2


----------



## ripjack13 (Mar 2, 2019)

Wooo...look at shape on the purple puppy paw print pen! 
I like that. That looks good....

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 2


----------



## ripjack13 (Mar 2, 2019)

Diver Temple said:


> tight bead contours.



Can you show a picture?


----------



## ripjack13 (Mar 2, 2019)

Oh...what kind of wood is the display? Thats very cool...

Reactions: Thank You! 1


----------



## Diver Temple (Mar 2, 2019)

Nature Man said:


> Exquisite times two! Chuck


Thank you Chuck. These two were fun to do. I love seeing the wood come alive during the finish.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Diver Temple (Mar 2, 2019)

ripjack13 said:


> Wooo...look at shape on the purple puppy paw print pen!
> I like that. That looks good....


Thanks Marc. I have found contoured pens a little easier than making a smooth strait tube, and I do like adding a little character to the pens.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Diver Temple (Mar 2, 2019)

ripjack13 said:


> Can you show a picture?


No pics atm, resanded, recontoured part of it, applied CA coats X 5 and set it aside in favor of finishing these two. LOL I hope to regain my patience tomorrow and finish it off, before it finished me off.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Diver Temple (Mar 2, 2019)

ripjack13 said:


> Oh...what kind of wood is the display? Thats very cool...


Marc, the dog pen is purple stabilized maple burl, and the key pen is dyed magenta and blue stabilized buckeye. I bought them on PSI and got lucky with some nice pieces.


----------



## rocky1 (Mar 3, 2019)

What's the blank you're having problems with Mo? Sounds like problems I encountered with Olive; too much oil in it. Had to wipe it down good with Denatured Alcohol before finishing, the second or third time, to get it to stick and dry properly. Get 2 - 3 layers into where it was just building nice and it would crumble and chunk up.

Reactions: Informative 2


----------



## ripjack13 (Mar 3, 2019)

Diver Temple said:


> Marc, the dog pen is purple stabilized maple burl, and the key pen is dyed magenta and blue stabilized buckeye. I bought them on PSI and got lucky with some nice pieces.



Ah...nice, but I was referring to the pen stand you have em in.


----------



## Diver Temple (Mar 3, 2019)

ripjack13 said:


> Ah...nice, but I was referring to the pen stand you have em in.


Oh, sorry about that. That is mystery wood. My has several pieces of different shapes, none too large, that he sanded and waxed in 2002. I took a disk sander and hit with white diamond and wax, and left this one as he cut it. It is very hard with tight grain, and heavy. I hope to find a piece with the type written on it, but I haven't finished sorting through the stock pile he left.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Diver Temple (Mar 3, 2019)

rocky1 said:


> What's the blank you're having problems with Mo? Sounds like problems I encountered with Olive; too much oil in it. Had to wipe it down good with Denatured Alcohol before finishing, the second or third time, to get it to stick and dry properly. Get 2 - 3 layers into where it was just building nice and it would crumble and chunk up.


It is stabilized maple burl, dyed orange and black, added a couple segments of black and grey on each end (wanted the ends darker, should have found some ebony). I think I must have gotten some oil from my hands on the CA and it just got worse and worse with every new layer and resanding kept leaving me thin areas I sanded through... back and forth until... 

 
The CA did fill in the bead valleys, but not as much as it looks in the picture - a trick of the light and camera.

Reactions: Way Cool 2


----------



## rocky1 (Mar 3, 2019)

Looking at profile on your pen, I'm going to guess you encountered the problem about where those lovely little beads you have turned in the middle of that blank are Mo?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## rocky1 (Mar 3, 2019)

IF that's where it showed up... 

When you apply CA on a surface with raised and recessed areas, such as the beads in the middle of that bottom blank, centrifugal force will cause the CA to creep to the highest point on the blank as it spins on the lathe. Where you have a small string of beads like you have, you'll also tend to puddle CA in the low spots between beads when applying it, compounding that problem. If you use a medium or thick CA, or if temperatures are a little cooler, or humidity is a little high, causing the CA to take a little longer to set, this problem will also be more pronounced. 

If you use an accelerator on a piece of this nature, when applying your CA finish, the ridge of each of those beads will blister on you.

What happens is, as the CA slides up the bead, from the lower areas, the surface will skin over, trapping uncured CA underneath, and therein further increasing set time, as it is sealed and it's puddling. When you apply the accelerator, the chemical reaction causes the underlying CA to heat up rapidly, gases are released under the skinned over surface creating bubbles, and thus blistering the finished surface.

In your case, I would guess you have the same thing going on, but from what you described, you're NOT using an accelerator. And, you wind up with uncured CA trapped beneath the cured surface skin, and may be building multiple layers over the uncured stuff. Then you rub a round of CA a little too hard and suddenly there is enough drag to pull the cured surface layer loose and fracture it. Resulting in your "crystallized CA" that you were seeing. 

How do you fix that problem? 

-- Don't put a string of beads on your pen barrel, or... 
-- Spend lots of time sipping coffee between layers of CA.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Mike Hill (Mar 4, 2019)

Very nice pens!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


----------



## Chris S. (Mar 6, 2019)

Great looking pens. Nice work. Maybe the dip finish method be better suited for your pen designs? I have no experience with these things, just an idea.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


----------



## ripjack13 (Mar 6, 2019)

Ya know, I kept trying to figure out what the heck Mo was when I saw the title...
I even looked in my acronym list.
Silly me.....

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## ripjack13 (Mar 6, 2019)




----------



## Diver Temple (Mar 19, 2019)

rocky1 said:


> IF that's where it showed up...
> 
> When you apply CA on a surface with raised and recessed areas, such as the beads in the middle of that bottom blank, centrifugal force will cause the CA to creep to the highest point on the blank as it spins on the lath...........
> 
> Rocky, you nailed it! It's good to see it explained so well. I have spent the last two weeks letting work get in the way of turning life, but I did get a couple of pens in and battled and sanded through every thing you described. Temps and humidity in NW Florida halve been all over the place making my opportunity to experiment and find all the issues you described first hand. I did by some accelerator and had limited success on some smoother contours, but depending on the layers and end shapes, I repeatedly had little microbubbles show up in the early layers. I went to the coffee method with medium CA and low speed turning to allow it to self level and did better until the temps drop or flipped around with increasing humidity... So made a few pens with CA, defaulted back to a high gloss lacquer-based friction polish on a pen during a temperature shift, and then turned a bowl and went to Danish oil...LOL Going to post them in completed projects to shorten this stream. Thanks again!

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Diver Temple (Mar 19, 2019)

ripjack13 said:


> View attachment 162016


Marc, Not sure what that meant. Did I mess something up?


----------



## Diver Temple (Mar 19, 2019)

Chris S. said:


> Great looking pens. Nice work. Maybe the dip finish method be better suited for your pen designs? I have no experience with these things, just an idea.


I am experimenting a lot, so it is all worth a try. Thanks!


----------



## Diver Temple (Mar 19, 2019)

ripjack13 said:


> View attachment 162016

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## rocky1 (Mar 20, 2019)

Been there and fought those demons Mo! Slowed my CA finish process down considerably; I don't rush it anymore. If I use accelerator, I apply my CA, kick back for at least 30 - 45 seconds, while it spins on the lathe. Dependent upon weather, maybe a minute or more, then give it a little light mist or two of accelerator from 18" - 24" out. Give it another 10 - 15 seconds, and move in for a second shot from 10" - 12" out. 

The second reason I quit finishing with medium and thick CA is... I am not that fond of sanding everything off the blank that I just put on the blank, and when you build finish rapidly with medium or thick CA, you also build lines in the finish rapidly. Easier to build finish slowly and sand a little, than to build finish quickly and sand a lot.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1 | Useful 1


----------



## B Rogers (Mar 20, 2019)

I agree with Rocky. I use thin CA the majority of the time. I'll usually apply at around 400-450 rpm. Sometimes I'll alternate a few layers of thin then medium but always finish with several layers of thin. Cuts down on sanding tremendously. Just don't get in a rush and try to build it too quickly. I've had to go back and sand bubbles out many times. Keeping the CA fresh also helps. I've noticed that if I have a bottle that's been sitting for awhile, it wants to cure almost too quickly and tends to leave blemishes. Supposedly storing it in the fridge helps. Good luck.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


----------

