# Got this years harvest done



## FLQuacker (Nov 28, 2020)

Nutn like @Wildthings creations, but not bad for an old turkey call maker :)

Reactions: Like 5 | EyeCandy! 4 | Way Cool 7


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## Wildthings (Nov 28, 2020)

FLQuacker said:


> Nutn like @Wildthings creations, but not bad for an old turkey call maker :)View attachment 196905


Waccha talkin about!! That's great! do you contract out? LOL actually all my skulls I'm sending out to be done... sssshhhhh don't tell anyone

Reactions: Like 2


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## Wildthings (Nov 28, 2020)

I saw a picture of a skull mount that was kinda framed and cool looking. I'll try to find the picture. Need to do one to show clients.

edited: here they are!

Reactions: Like 8 | Way Cool 1


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## Nubsnstubs (Nov 28, 2020)

Man, all I can say is, look at all those Pressure Flakers and those 2 boppers. . .. Or maybe a pen or two......... Jerry (in Tucson)

Reactions: Funny 1


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## FLQuacker (Nov 28, 2020)

@Wildthings That is a very cool presentation! 
I just get a chance to do 1 or 2 a year for myself. To much work the old fashion way. I'd invest in a beetle herd if I did any more :)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Wildthings (Nov 28, 2020)

Nubsnstubs said:


> Man, all I can say is, look at all those Pressure Flakers and those 2 boppers. . .. Or maybe a pen or two......... Jerry (in Tucson)


need some? @Nubsnstubs


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## Steve in VA (Nov 28, 2020)

I've done one by burying it. Put it in the ground in December and decided to check on it in June. Other than the dirt, was picked clean. Washed it off and a few coats of peroxide and it looked good, but not a pure white as yours is Wayne. What did you use to whiten it? Great job!


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## Nubsnstubs (Nov 29, 2020)

Wildthings said:


> need some? @Nubsnstubs


Thanks, Barry, but I have more than I will ever wear out. It's that whoreder thing. You see something you have interest in, and you want it. Since I started using copper in knapping, antlers are to just drool over whored away for the future. ....... Jerry (in Tucson)

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Funny 1


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## FLQuacker (Nov 30, 2020)

Steve in VA said:


> I've done one by burying it. Put it in the ground in December and decided to check on it in June. Other than the dirt, was picked clean. Washed it off and a few coats of peroxide and it looked good, but not a pure white as yours is Wayne. What did you use to whiten it? Great job!


I use the commercial grade peroxide you can get at hair care stores like Sally Supplies. 40 seems to work well.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mr. Peet (Nov 30, 2020)

Steve in VA said:


> I've done one by burying it. Put it in the ground in December and decided to check on it in June. Other than the dirt, was picked clean. Washed it off and a few coats of peroxide and it looked good, but not a pure white as yours is Wayne. What did you use to whiten it? Great job!



Could you share a picture? I kind of like the yellowed look, more old fashion. Lots of guys used shellac, either the yellow or orange back in the day. The bright white bleached also shows dust and dirt easier, so being a bit darker has advantages.


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## Wildthings (Nov 30, 2020)

Mr. Peet said:


> Could you share a picture? I kind of like the yellowed look, more old fashion. Lots of guys used shellac, either the yellow or orange back in the day. *The bright white bleached also shows dust and dirt easier, so being a bit darker has advantages.*


If you want the older look than don't use any peroxide on it. It'll be just bone white which is kinda a dirty ivory white. I apply a coat of Mop & Glo to mine after whitening. It gives it a matte look and helps to repel dirt and dust


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## Steve in VA (Nov 30, 2020)

Here you go Mark. I used the same peroxide Wayne mentioned.....40%. If you use it, be sure to wear gloves as it's concentrated and strong enough to burn you if left on your skin. I use a toothbrush to get it completely covered and let it sit in the sun. A few times a day I'll hit it with the toothbrush to spread it around again and maybe add a touch of water if the concentration has dried. I think if you want it whiter it may just be as simple as leaving it on longer?

The first deer is the one I did, while the second is one I had done. I'm not sure how well the pictures show the difference, but there is a tinge of yellow / darkness to the one I did which makes it look older and a bit more weathered, at least in person. I also found a fox skull and did that, which turned out extremely white. It was obviously not buried for 6 months either which I assume made a big difference!

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## Wildthings (Nov 30, 2020)

Very nice!! @Steve in VA Are you sure that is a fox skull?


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## Steve in VA (Nov 30, 2020)

Wildthings said:


> Very nice!! @Steve in VA Are you sure that is a fox skull?


Hmmmm......interesting question now that you ask. 

I certainly didn't kill it so that rules out that one. And there was no other identifying info such as a hide, so that might be strike two. We have a ton of foxes in the woods behind our house and see them just about every day so I'm extremely familiar with their size and head shape. I found it close to an area where there are several dens, but that doesn't mean anything. The size is perfect and the teeth seem to match up with what I think are that of a fox, but I've never done any dentistry on them so I guess I'm not really positive.  

What do you think it is? I can post more pics if that helps as it's sitting right here at my desk.


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## Mr. Peet (Nov 30, 2020)

Wildthings said:


> If you want the older look than don't use any peroxide on it. It'll be just bone white which is kinda a dirty ivory white. I apply a coat of Mop & Glo to mine after whitening. It gives it a matte look and helps to repel dirt and dust



Sounds like an idea. I figure the peroxide or a dip of bleach is a good way to disinfect / clean before clear coating the skull. I had used Deft semi-gloss as a sealer on a few. Never thought about Mop-n-glo.


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Nov 30, 2020)

Looks more like a coyote to me

Reactions: Agree 1


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## FLQuacker (Nov 30, 2020)

Could just say heck with whitish...hydrodip it :) did this a few years back came out kinda neat.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Wildthings (Nov 30, 2020)

That dude on that spalted wood almost disappears


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## Wildthings (Nov 30, 2020)

Steve in VA said:


> Hmmmm......interesting question now that you ask.
> 
> I certainly didn't kill it so that rules out that one. And there was no other identifying info such as a hide, so that might be strike two. We have a ton of foxes in the woods behind our house and see them just about every day so I'm extremely familiar with their size and head shape. I found it close to an area where there are several dens, but that doesn't mean anything. The size is perfect and the teeth seem to match up with what I think are that of a fox, but I've never done any dentistry on them so I guess I'm not really positive.
> 
> What do you think it is? I can post more pics if that helps as it's sitting right here at my desk.


Get me a few more pictures and I'll find mine which I know is a fox. To me it looks way too blocky. Maybe add a soda can to the picture for relativity


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## FLQuacker (Nov 30, 2020)

Coon...maybe?


Wildthings said:


> Very nice!! @Steve in VA Are you sure that is a fox skull?


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## eaglea1 (Nov 30, 2020)

Definitely looks like a red fox to me.


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## Steve in VA (Nov 30, 2020)

Wildthings said:


> Get me a few more pictures and I'll find mine which I know is a fox. To me it looks way too blocky. Maybe add a soda can to the picture for relativity



Sorry, no soda cans but how about a shotgun shell? Seems more appropriate anyway 

I took some closeups of the teeth as that usually helps the experts. My bet is still a fox, but you've got me wondering! Thanks for the assist!


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## Nubsnstubs (Nov 30, 2020)

Pit Bull........... Jerry (in Tucson)

Reactions: Funny 1


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## FLQuacker (Nov 30, 2020)

Sticking with coon

Reactions: Like 1


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## Wildthings (Nov 30, 2020)

FLQuacker said:


> Sticking with coon


I'm starting to see that but still investigating. I've ruled fox out


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## DLJeffs (Nov 30, 2020)

Raccoon Skull's Unlmtd


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## Steve in VA (Nov 30, 2020)

After spending WAY too much time going down this rabbit hole, I've come a conclusion on two things.

1) I'm fairly certain on what animal skull this is and have several resources that I believe will confirm it.
2) Us Woodbarter folks collectively have way too much time and go down way too many rabbit holes, but what a great community it is!

Any other guesses, thoughts, or references before I let the cat out of the bag tomorrow morning? Or is it a racoon we have? Maybe an opossum? Red or grey fox are still in the running, aren't they? Do we have badgers in VA....hmmm?  

And I'm saving the best for last as I've got a skull story that will blow you away! Stay tuned for this one!!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Wildthings (Dec 1, 2020)

I say foxes are out! Bobcat nope! I do lots of bobcats and to me it's a nope. Possum nope way too blocky. Badger well I was throwing that one around for a while but I think badger are even wider. Coyote no way looking at one right here on my desk... back to a coon hmmmmmmm


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## Steve in VA (Dec 1, 2020)

So I'll start by saying I have no way of knowing if I'm right about all of this, so feel free to chime and prove me wrong but I think I've found something that confirms my initial instincts of it being a red fox. 

There are several sources & articles which appear to be very reputable and consistent in one distinct feature of a red fox that helps you distinguish it from other foxes as well as similarly sized carnivores; ridges on the top of the braincase. Red foxes have a distinct "V" shaped ridge that starts to form above the eye socket. 

According to the article below, raccoon skulls are rounded and smooth on top. You may see sutures, bumps, and a faint central ridge but nothing like the two distinctive ridges on foxes. See pictures below.

I looked at a number of pictures and have several articles with links below that are all consistent with this "V" feature being that of a red fox. I don't have nearly enough spare time for all of this, but must admit I found it very interesting and learned a number of new things along the way. It's amazing how WB and the crew on here does that! One very good resource I found, link below, was the Texas Guide To Mammal Skulls and Skin, so I thought I'd include that for everyone. I'm sure the guys from Texas will have something to say about it; they always do 

I'm not sure if this wraps it up or not, but either way it's been a fun having everyone trying to figure it out! 

Steve

*Here is the top of my skull; note the "V" starting at the eye sockets:*







https://environment.arlingtonva.us/2016/11/a-look-at-skulls-found-in-arlington/#:~:text=Raccoon%20skulls%20are%20rounded%20and,two%20distinctive%20ridges%20on%20foxes.








What Lies Beneath - Skull Identification Part II







www.dcr.virginia.gov




​






The easiest way to distinguish skulls of these two species is to look for ridges on the top of the braincase. Fox skulls have two ridges that begin over the eye sockets and join a few inches back. We have two fox species in Arlington – the red fox, _Vulpes vulpes_ and the far less common gray fox, _Urocyon cinereoargenteus_. Conveniently enough for skull ID mnemonics, the ridges of *V*_ulpes_ join in a V, and the ridges of the gray fox, *U*_rycon_, join in a U shape. Raccoon skulls are rounded and smooth on top. You may see sutures, bumps, and a faint central ridge but nothing like the two distinctive ridges on foxes.

*Racoon skull from Skulls Unlimited site: Smooth top / no "V" ridge:*






*Another racoon skull; again, rounded over and no "V" ridge:*






https://environment.arlingtonva.us/2016/11/a-look-at-skulls-found-in-arlington/#:~:text=Raccoons%20can%20reach%2020%20pounds,larger%20skull%20is%20a%20fox!&text=The%20easiest%20way%20to%20distinguish,join%20a%20few%20inches%20back.



*Texas Guide to Mammal Skulls & Skin*: http://texas4-h.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/E4H-014-Mammal-Skulls-and-Skins.pdf

*Red Fox Skull:* https://www.skullsunlimited.com/products/real-red-fox-skull-sm-185?variant=39992279758
*Racoon Skull:* https://www.skullsunlimited.com/products/real-raccoon-skull-sm-385?variant=32142282850376

Reactions: Informative 1


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## DLJeffs (Dec 1, 2020)

Interesting. If that is a fox, it has to be a midget fox unless that shotgun casing is giant size.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Steve in VA (Dec 1, 2020)

DLJeffs said:


> Interesting. If that is a fox, it has to be a midget fox unless that shotgun casing is giant size.


They are definitely not a large animal, at least around here. Most of them are between a large cat and a small dog. And I guess it could have been a young one. I'll pull a card tomorrow from one of my game cameras and post some pictures for you.


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## FLQuacker (Dec 1, 2020)

It's a coon....


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## DLJeffs (Dec 1, 2020)

Well, there's a conundrum. Besides that, it's interesting in all those skulls how the lower mandible has that big flange that rotates clear up into the eye orbital. You'd think the jaw muscles would be very strong (ergo, very large) and therefore would need more room rather than interfering with the eye socket. Cool discussion regardless.

Reactions: Sincere 1


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## Wildthings (Dec 1, 2020)

DLJeffs said:


> Well, there's a conundrum. Besides that, it's interesting in all those skulls how the lower mandible has that big flange that rotates clear up into the eye orbital. You'd think the jaw muscles would be very strong (ergo, very large) and therefore would need more room rather than interfering with the eye socket. Cool discussion regardless.


The part of the skull I have circled is where the jaw muscle is located on carnivores. Those muscles are extremely large




AND I'M STILL GOING WITH RACOON!! it's too blocky for a fox in my opinion

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Steve in VA (Dec 3, 2020)

I took a quick walk during lunch and pulled a card. Here are few pics of the foxes we have around here, and some other animals in _roughly _the same spot for comparison. Sorry about the quality; I simply took photos of the laptop screen.

The one that appears to be a black dog with a pink collar is 16-17 pounds, depending on what she had for breakfast. I won't tell you what the others are of.....we've had enough fun for one week


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## Wildthings (Dec 3, 2020)

I see some beautiful red foxes, coyote and a nice whitetail buck maybe taking a poop

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Wildthings (Dec 4, 2020)

Here is a grey fox skull.


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## Mr. Peet (Dec 5, 2020)

Wildthings said:


> Here is a grey fox skull.
> 
> View attachment 197416 View attachment 197417



That looks small. Would that be a kit or a young adult?


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## Steve in VA (Dec 5, 2020)

Wildthings said:


> Here is a grey fox skull.
> 
> View attachment 197416 View attachment 197417


Very consistent with the information I've found on identifying fox skulls, and specific to a grey fox.


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## Wildthings (Dec 5, 2020)

Steve in VA said:


> Very consistent with the information I've found on identifying fox skulls, and specific to a grey fox.


I have to admit I've been basing my assumptions all on grey foxes. Which I've had dozens of...only 1 red fox through my shop and the skull was destroyed.



Mr. Peet said:


> That looks small. Would that be a kit or a young adult?


Full grown adult - grey foxes are quite small under all that fur. Here is the skin from that skull

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Way Cool 1


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## DLJeffs (Dec 5, 2020)

The kit foxes out in the central valley of CA are really small. But they have giant ears. Thanks for the trail cam pics Steve. My friend's son does a lot of trapping (licensed) and he sets out some trail cams. One time he got a photo of a nude guy, walking past the camera in a state of full arousal shall we say. Not something you'd ever want to see on your trail cam.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Steve in VA (Dec 5, 2020)

We're all watching Elf, a Christmas tradition with our kids even though they're now in high school.

Towards the beginning of the movie there is a scene where a raccoon jumps up in Will Ferrell's face, bearing his teeth. 

I grabbed the remote, rewound and paused it, looking at the teeth for comparison sake. After a brief explanation, then pictures and reading through our posts, my family now thinks I'm certifiably nuts!

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Wildthings (Dec 5, 2020)

Now dat dere is funny


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