# Civil war canteen



## William Tanner (Dec 27, 2021)

In the late 1980’s my uncle Bill gave me this civil war canteen along with his WWll mementos. (He served in the 101st and that is a whole different story.) In probably the late 1920’s, uncle Bill along with mom and another aunt where riding horses home from school when they stopped along the way. This was in the vicinity of Covington, Tennessee. They were sitting under a tree when uncle Bill felt something under pine needles and uncovered the canteen. When I received it, the stopper and leather strap were missing, probably deteriorated before it was found but don’t know for sure. Years ago I wrote to the Civil Ware Museum in Pennsylvania in an attempt to learn if this was union or confederate equipment. I never heard back and that question hasn’t been pursued further. For the last twenty plus years this artifact has been sitting on a counter in our entry way. I’ve been thinking about a proper way to display it for years. 

Two or three years ago I started a shadow box of sorts but the project had been dormant until about six months ago, The wood is sycamore and the backing piece is Baltic birch. I used an airbrush for the coloring, which is protected by Deft satin lacquer. I plan to write a short history of the canteen and attach it to the back so the story remains in the family.

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## Eric Rorabaugh (Dec 27, 2021)

That is so cool. Nice work on the shadow box. I love history and that will definitely become a family heirloom. Great of you to preserve it that way and keeping the story of it going.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 2


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## Mike Hill (Dec 27, 2021)

No expert, but I do live on the Confederate line of the second day of the Battle of Nashville and have some interest. I believe it is a Union Smoothside - ofter referred to as a 1858 Smoothside. Most likely Union but who knows who was carrying it when it was lost. Fort Pillow is relatively close and occupied by the Union for a couple of years early in the war. I only know this because I thought my great grandfather's Company had fought at Shiloh and then went to west TN. But uncorrabrated.

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## Tony (Dec 27, 2021)

That is very cool!!!!

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## trc65 (Dec 27, 2021)

Awesome way to preserve a piece of history!

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## Nature Man (Dec 27, 2021)

Great to preserve history! If it could only tell its own story…. Chuck

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## William Tanner (Dec 28, 2021)

Mike Hill said:


> No expert, but I do live on the Confederate line of the second day of the Battle of Nashville and have some interest. I believe it is a Union Smoothside - ofter referred to as a 1858 Smoothside. Most likely Union but who knows who was carrying it when it was lost. Fort Pillow is relatively close and occupied by the Union for a couple of years early in the war. I only know this because I thought my great grandfather's Company had fought at Shiloh and then went to west TN. But uncorrabrated.


Thanks Mike for providing a lead on my canteen. I looked up 1858 Smoothside canteen and located a photograph, which is identical to my specimen. It is exact and the accompanying information convinces me mine was manufactured for the union. Will be reading up on Fort Pillow. Cheers.

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## Mike Hill (Dec 28, 2021)

Going to all those Civil War Antique Shows (for selling CW stuff) has paid off!!!

Reactions: Like 3 | Great Post 1


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## Tom Smart (Dec 28, 2021)

Very cool and love the history! But….

I’ll see your canteen…





And raise you a saber…





The canteen and the darker colored saber in the front I found in the attic of my wife’s aunt home. The house is in Waterford, VA in Loudoun County, the very north part of VA. Today the entire town is a National Historic District. Settled by Quakers, it remained loyal to the Union, yet fielded forces to both sides, the Independent Loudoun Rangers and members of White’s Rebels. While the war raged throughout the county for the duration, the two forces met in Waterford in August 1862. The Baptist church in town still bears the scars where the Rangers were held up and surrounded by COL White’s forces.

I cannot verify these artifacts are from that, or any specific engagement. The family lore is they were picked up in a nearby field. The canteen, as noted above, is of a Union origin. The saber has no markings. At some point I showed it to a dealer in Gettysburg and was told it is a Confederate saber manufactured in Belgium. That’s all I know.

Parenthetically, I found the second, more shiny saber at a flee market in Heidelberg, Germany. I do not know much about it but it has hilt markings from Chicopee, MA, 1862. It had grease on it and has a serial or rack number stamped. Likely a reproduction, but hey, who knows?

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## Mike Hill (Dec 29, 2021)

And I'll raise a powderhorn. My Great-grandfather - MSarg - Quartrmaster - Company E of the 20th Infantry Regiment of the Army of Tennessee supposedly found a powderhorn. Not sure where, quite possibly at or near his home - the family lived on the Natchez Trace in Williamson County and it was heavily used during the war - even, especially during the retreat from Nashville. I thought my grandfather found it at the Hill place on the Natchez Trace but thought he found a copper powder flask (he got to romp and play on Indian Mounds - there was one hanging on their (my grandparents')stone (Austin Chalk) fireplace in North San Antonio. So Lil Mikey is confused. The powderhorn is also a bit of a quandary as it looks similar to those issued by the British Ordinance in an earlier time - but no markings evident - but I have not really looked at it in detail yet. Much of the confederates from these parts weren't issued much officially and used what they brought - and could have easily been reused. Dad just gave this to me last week on my trip to Texas.





1878 Map of Home place. Harpeth Home was where granddad was born and burned down in January of 2014. The mounds were at the house noted as Mrs. M. Brown (now called Old Town). The dark squiggly line (north then turning east) is the Harpeth River. The double line next to the river (north to south) is where the Natchez Trace was. J. H. Hill was my great great grandfather.

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## Wildthings (Dec 29, 2021)

Who's next? this is awesome!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mike Hill (Dec 29, 2021)

Tom Smart said:


> Very cool and love the history! But….
> 
> I’ll see your canteen…
> 
> ...


Dunno - Looks more French to me - so could easily be a U.S. Cavalry issued cavalry saber, nicknamed “Old Wristbreaker”, made in Massachusetts that was modeled after an earlier French cavalry saber. Any markings near the hilt? There was no patents on these so many looked the same.


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## Mike1950 (Dec 29, 2021)

Very cool stuff
Had family on both sides. Have a tin type of Great great grandfather-union surveyor. Also a a Steamboat ticket to Cairo Illinois signed by provost Marshall July 3rd 1863. Have to dig out.

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## Tom Smart (Dec 29, 2021)

Mike Hill said:


> Dunno - Looks more French to me - so could easily be a U.S. Cavalry issued cavalry saber, nicknamed “Old Wristbreaker”, made in Massachusetts that was modeled after an earlier French cavalry saber. Any markings near the hilt? There was no patents on these so many looked the sam


Here they are together.





No markings anywhere on the “Belgian” attic find.





However, the flee market find has period accurate markings, including an inspector stamp “ADK”. Still the research I've done says it is a reproduction.





Ames Manufacturing on the reverse.





And what may be a serial number.

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## bhatleberg (Dec 29, 2021)

We have a Union sword in the family that has the same little fin at the bottom of the scabbard. Don't know more. But it belonged to my several times great grandfather, who was present at the surrender (and is a great story in his own right - got captured and beat up for his warm Union jacket...and used the thin Confederate one he got in exchange to walk right back to Union lines!).

I still wear his belt buckle. Frankly, seems more likely it's a reproduction...but my father got it from my grandfather and wore it in high school, so there is story to it either way. At least, in the family we say it is the real thing!

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## Mike Hill (Dec 29, 2021)

Tom Smart said:


> Here they are together.
> 
> View attachment 220096
> 
> ...


As far as the flea market find - if it looks too good maybe it isn't. 

As far as the old'n - definitely a M1840 Heavy Saber for a NCO and unadorned - square spine, no hump in handle and looks very similar to an Ames, except for the front of the hilt and the ricasso. Plus no markings I guess would preclude it being an issued arm. So the Belgium (purt near France) appellation that did not go through the Army's inspection could be appropriate. I want it to be a Nashville Plow Works - but highly doubtful.

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## William Tanner (Dec 29, 2021)

Tom Smart said:


> Very cool and love the history! But….
> 
> I’ll see your canteen…
> 
> ...


This is very interesting


Tom Smart said:


> Very cool and love the history! But….
> 
> I’ll see your canteen…
> 
> ...


This is very interesting Tom. Just spoke to a good buddy of mine by phone and told him about these canteen conversations. He reminded me that in 1979, while attending the FBI academy, he and a friend were lucky to get a tour of an individual’s private collection in his home. This was in Fredericksburg and I guess the display was quite impressive. Wish I could have been there.

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## William Tanner (Dec 29, 2021)

Mike Hill said:


> And I'll raise a powderhorn. My Great-grandfather - MSarg - Quartrmaster - Company E of the 20th Infantry Regiment of the Army of Tennessee supposedly found a powderhorn. Not sure where, quite possibly at or near his home - the family lived on the Natchez Trace in Williamson County and it was heavily used during the war - even, especially during the retreat from Nashville. I thought my grandfather found it at the Hill place on the Natchez Trace but thought he found a copper powder flask (he got to romp and play on Indian Mounds - there was one hanging on their (my grandparents')stone (Austin Chalk) fireplace in North San Antonio. So Lil Mikey is confused. The powderhorn is also a bit of a quandary as it looks similar to those issued by the British Ordinance in an earlier time - but no markings evident - but I have not really looked at it in detail yet. Much of the confederates from these parts weren't issued much officially and used what they brought - and could have easily been reused. Dad just gave this to me last week on my trip to Texas.
> 
> View attachment 220081
> 
> ...


This is super interesting Mike. What caused the Harpeth Home to burn? That is tragic.


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## William Tanner (Dec 29, 2021)

Mike1950 said:


> Very cool stuff
> Had family on both sides. Have a tin type of Great great grandfather-union surveyor. Also a a Steamboat ticket to Cairo Illinois signed by provost Marshall July 3rd 1863. Have to dig out.


My family was from Western Tennessee and Northern Arkansas. I think I was the first to be born in the north. I have a letter or letters from a relative with the last name of Cotton. At the time he wrote them he was a prisoner in a Union prison camp. I should dig these out and read them as well. I recall that in the 1060’s, as a child, I visited a family homestead in Memphis called The Cotton Patch.

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## Mike Hill (Dec 29, 2021)

William Tanner said:


> This is super interesting Mike. What caused the Harpeth Home to burn? That is tragic.


I've got my suspicions. It was was sold out of the family in the 1930's by my Ggrandmother. The last owner had just inherited it when her parents died. The dad had been a bank president and although I tried a number of times - he would not sell me even a little corner of the 260+ acres. Lets put it this way - 260+ acres in the middle of some of the most expensive land in the area. It would make lots more $$$ if subdivided and mcmansions built. When it burned, the estate had not even been settled. The house was on the Historical Register until it burned. Last time I checked it had not been built back - still a hole in the ground (basement), but it's probably been 2 years since I've been by it.

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## Tom Smart (Dec 29, 2021)

William Tanner said:


> This is very interesting
> 
> This is very interesting Tom. Just spoke to a good buddy of mine by phone and told him about these canteen conversations. He reminded me that in 1979, while attending the FBI academy, he and a friend were lucky to get a tour of an individual’s private collection in his home. This was in Fredericksburg and I guess the display was quite impressive. Wish I could have been there.


We are not far from Fredericksburg, 70 miles. Both daughters went to college there and the second stayed.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tom Smart (Dec 29, 2021)

Mike Hill said:


> As far as the flea market find - if it looks too good maybe it isn't.
> 
> As far as the old'n - definitely a M1840 Heavy Saber for a NCO and unadorned - square spine, no hump in handle and looks very similar to an Ames, except for the front of the hilt and the ricasso. Plus no markings I guess would preclude it being an issued arm. So the Belgium (purt near France) appellation that did not go through the Army's inspection could be appropriate. I want it to be a Nashville Plow Works - but highly doubtful.


Agree on the flee market saber. Likely it was pilfered from a soldier’s household goods and found it’s way to the Saturday market. Might have belonged to a reenactor. 

You clearly know more about the other than I.


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## Mike Hill (Dec 29, 2021)

Nothing to do with the civil war but......





That little creek along Hills Valley has been relocated somewhat to the north and flows along the road a little. Right there in that little bend used to be a campground called Hills Campground - long, long gone. But right there where the creek empties into the river was a long shoal. Used to have a bit of a pulloff and I would stop and wade fish. This one memorable time I stopped there was a van already there. I went down to the river to fish and surprised two young ladies ----- skinny-dipping or rather skinny-wading because they were on the shoal/gravel bar. Again nothing to do with Mississippian Indians or the civil war, but interesting nonetheless!!

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## Mike Hill (Dec 29, 2021)

Also probably nothing to do with the civil war - very likely not near old enough - but just an example of what you never know what you will find in middle Tennessee and work it’s way to one’s deck!!

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## duncsuss (Dec 29, 2021)

Mike Hill said:


> Also probably nothing to do with the civil war - very likely not near old enough - but just an example of what you never know what you will find in middle Tennessee and work it’s way to one’s deck!!



I don't know what these are, but the song "Get you a copper kettle, get you a copper coil, Fill it with new made corn mash ..." popped into my mind and now it's stuck there

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## Wildthings (Dec 30, 2021)

Mike Hill said:


> Nothing to do with the civil war but......
> 
> View attachment 220117
> 
> That little creek along Hills Valley has been relocated somewhat to the north and flows along the road a little. Right there in that little bend used to be a campground called Hills Campground - long, long gone. But right there where the creek empties into the river was a long shoal. Used to have a bit of a pulloff and I would stop and wade fish. This one memorable time I stopped there was a van already there. I went down to the river to fish and surprised two young ladies ----- skinny-dipping or rather skinny-wading because they were on the shoal/gravel bar. Again nothing to do with Mississippian Indians or the civil war, but interesting nonetheless!!


PICTURES??

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## 2feathers Creative Making (Dec 31, 2021)

Wildthings said:


> PICTURES??


I am pretty sure @Mike Hill can't prove this one.... at least not on a family friendly site.

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## Mike Hill (Dec 31, 2021)

Wildthings said:


> PICTURES??


Pictures!!! Pictures!!!!! That was pert nere 40 years ago. You’re asking toooooo much!!! Lil Mikey’s jes happy he can vaguely remember it!!! He had to use a gear puller the other day and geez that bout gave him the heebeejeebies!

Reactions: Funny 4


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