# Shop Lighting



## Sprung (May 6, 2022)

I've had these lights in my shop for two years. I've been very happy with them and the light they put out. Until recently. I noticed over the winter that a good number of the individual diodes were dead on the fixtures. But now I've got entire fixtures not working. Out of the 18 of these I installed in my shop, 10 of them are currently not working. The ones that are not working are still passing electricity through to the next ones down the line, but they aren't giving me any light. I've noticed that they advertise a 3 year warranty, so I just submitted a contact form and will have to wait and see what they say...

So, yeah, I'm frustrated with them. And I need to start replacing them.

I'm wondering what lights you have used and would recommend so I can check them out.

Here's what I'm looking for:

LED (these gotta work in the cold too and fluorescent bulbs and I don't get along too well, seems I'm always changing them in the fixtures I still have in our basement)
Daylight (around 5000k)
Able to be daisy chained up to 4 or 5 lights
Easy to install; not something flush mount with the ceiling or permanent
Bright - fixtures that are at least 5000 lumen (with the 18 currently in my shop, plus a few other lights, I had roughly 100k lumens of lighting when these were all working. I would really like to keep it at that level of brightness.)
Budget friendly - I'd like to avoid spending $500 on this project, if possible, but realize that I might have to put a little money into this to get the results I want
Quality - I realize that this is sometimes opposite of budget friendly, but if I need to spend a little extra to make sure I have lights that will last, I will. I hate working overhead on the ceiling and one partially torn rotator cuff makes it sometimes challenging to do so. So I'm really looking for something that will hold up so I don't have to do this again in two years. It was a day of great rejoicing when I got them installed and was done with all the overhead/ceiling work in getting the shop up and going and now it's a day of great frustration realizing I'm going to have to do it again.
What I don't need:

Lights that are going to die after 2 years
WiFi enabled lighting (Yeah, some of this stuff gets real fancy these days...)
Color changing abilities. I don't need to be able to make my shop light up pink or green or any other color of the rainbow.

Reactions: Like 1


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## woodtickgreg (May 6, 2022)

I have Honeywell leds in my shop. I purchased them at Sam's club for $20 per light. 2 row led with clear lense, 5,000 lumens and 5k light spectrum. Can be daisy chained together. I've had them about a year I think with no issues. I've had them in my un heated garage for 2 years with no issues.the only bad thing I can come up with is cameras don't like the light, I get stripes in the pics, but the naked human eye can't see it. The gopro definitely doesn't like the leds.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Sprung (May 6, 2022)

@woodtickgreg - Just checked them out on Sam's Club's website. I think those would work well for me and the $20/unit price is reasonable. Those just might be the way to go for me, but we don't have a Sam's membership and might have to find someone who does...

Have any of the individual diodes/lights burned out over time?


When I looked up the lights on Amazon again last night I noticed that they are advertised as having a 3 year warranty. So I contacted the seller last night and already heard back from them. They've asked for pics, so here's a couple pics of what's going on. Hopefully they'll replace them. I realize that replacements will probably do the same thing within a couple years, but it would be nice to kick the can down the road a bit on this expense, if I can.

Reactions: Like 2 | +Karma 1


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## djg (May 6, 2022)

I just switched over to LED for the most part. Got mine at the local farm store for $15 but not warranted. Hope I'm not changing out LEDs every couple of years.


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## JerseyHighlander (May 6, 2022)

I've been working with LED lighting since before most people knew what an LED was. Used to be there were two manufacturers of the actual diodes in the world which were both good quality. Even now, while there are factories churning out garbage LED's, the primary trouble isn't in the diodes themselves but in the assembly of the components and such. More often than not it is power supplies and voltage regulators that are failing along with cheesy soldered connections and really crappy printed circuit boards etc. 
In general, "budget" LED lights that will last are found in the same isle as unicorns and honest politicians... Pretty much rules out Amazon/Walmart and any of the big box made in Cheaper stores. 
I do have a few in my shop and my home but I've actually been transitioning back toward non-LED for everything except outdoor lighting. Especially in my shop, I've found the extreme flicker of LED's to be causing me all kinds of health issues with my eyes, which I'm told are tied in directly to my brain... and I'm finding I sleep much better not being exposed to LED lights within a few hours of going to bed.
Sorry if this doesn't help, but just some things to consider so as to not find yourself right back here again in another year or two.

Reactions: Like 1 | Useful 1


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## woodtickgreg (May 6, 2022)

Sprung said:


> @woodtickgreg -
> 
> Have any of the individual diodes/lights burned out over time?


I haven't had any problems at all, nothing burned out yet .

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## JerseyHighlander (May 6, 2022)

Just giving some thought to the potential other side of this issue... The quality of the line power coming in can cause even the better equipment to fail early. For me it was very noticeable here when I first bought a digital sine wave generator for when the power goes out. You wouldn't believe how much smoother my refrigerator runs on that power than it does the line power from the street.

Also the building wiring, or just the particular circuit, having a high voltage drop under load, will throw fits with the power supplies of the LED's. Any loose connections in the circuit, like receptacles wired via those cheap push in spring connecters (push the wire in the hole in the back, instead of screw terminals), bad breakers, $0.35 light switches from the big box and long wiring runs etc.

One of the most consistent issues I find with wiring in new houses is excessive voltage drop. Start drawing close to the 15 amps the circuit should be rated for and the resistance drops the voltage sometimes as low as 90 volts. Nothing electronic does well with that, especially the cheaper stuff.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Useful 1


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## Wildthings (May 6, 2022)

I was noticing that sections of my LED tubes are burned out. Been looking for a receipt or where I bought them from with no luck. This thread pops up and at the end there "similar threads" list. Lo and Behold I've got a post in there linking to the ones I bought. Once again, I love this forum!!

Shop Lights - LED?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Gdurfey (May 6, 2022)

I have gotten these from Home Depot: a bit more expensive and very limited experience with them yet. You can daisy chain up to 4 with its 4 foot cord. So far, instant on and the light I am desiring. Not sure if this link will work. On the work computer for the moment and it doesn't let me do everything I desire for my own protection. Will edit the link if this doesn't work.









Commercial Electric 4 ft. 4-Light 80-Watt Integrated LED Heavy Duty Utility Gray Shop Light with Pull Chain, Bright White SHOP/4X4/840/HD - The Home Depot


Commercial Electrics 4 ft.4-light Plug-in Integrated LED Heavy-Duty Utility non-dimmable shop light, uses 80-Watt and comes fully assembled with an ultra-light weight design that can be used in hanging



www.homedepot.com

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sprung (May 6, 2022)

Thanks, guys, for the input!



JerseyHighlander said:


> I do have a few in my shop and my home but I've actually been transitioning back toward non-LED for everything except outdoor lighting. Especially in my shop, I've found the extreme flicker of LED's to be causing me all kinds of health issues with my eyes, which I'm told are tied in directly to my brain... and I'm finding I sleep much better not being exposed to LED lights within a few hours of going to bed.



Funny thing is I like the LEDs for the same reason - I can see the flicker of fluorescents sometimes and it gives me eye pain and headaches. I've found LED lighting better for my eyes.



JerseyHighlander said:


> Just giving some thought to the potential other side of this issue... The quality of the line power coming in can cause even the better equipment to fail early. For me it was very noticeable here when I first bought a digital sine wave generator for when the power goes out. You wouldn't believe how much smoother my refrigerator runs on that power than it does the line power from the street.
> 
> Also the building wiring, or just the particular circuit, having a high voltage drop under load, will throw fits with the power supplies of the LED's. Any loose connections in the circuit, like receptacles wired via those cheap push in spring connecters (push the wire in the hole in the back, instead of screw terminals), bad breakers, $0.35 light switches from the big box and long wiring runs etc.
> 
> One of the most consistent issues I find with wiring in new houses is excessive voltage drop. Start drawing close to the 15 amps the circuit should be rated for and the resistance drops the voltage sometimes as low as 90 volts. Nothing electronic does well with that, especially the cheaper stuff.



To see if there's anything that stands out to you as a potential issue that I should check, here's the current wiring situation here. (I know enough to be comfortable doing any of the wiring in my house, but I'm certainly not an electrician.) The house has 200A service and panel - an upgrade that was installed a few years ago, not long before we moved in. I installed a 100A subpanel in the garage two years ago. The lights are on their own dedicated 15A circuit - I have two outlets in the ceiling coming off the switch on the wall. I wired using the screw terminals - would never use the push in connectors. 12g wire. The outlets I used are whatever ones I bought in a 10 pack, but the switch was something better than the bottom end ones. There is one additional outlet on the wall on that circuit, but it pretty much is never used - probably been a year since I've plugged anything into that outlet.

Anything else I should look at or consider? Could something on a different circuit on the subpanel affect things? I do have a ceiling mounted 220v electric heater on one of the circuits in the panel, so could it cycling on and off maybe pose a problem?

Reactions: Like 2


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## JerseyHighlander (May 6, 2022)

Sprung said:


> Thanks, guys, for the input!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Doubtful the heater could cause any issues. Things like high frequency motors on say a cnc router could potentially feed back into the system and cause gremlins...

Subpanel, just need to make sure the terminal bars for the neutral/white wires is isolated from the ground terminal/bare copper or green wires. They normally have a bonding jumper on them for a main panel, needs to be removed for a sub panel. 

I use an expensive dedicated circuit analyzer to measure voltage drop under a simulated load, it checks the entire circuit integrity all the way back to the panel. You could use the daisy chain connector/plug at the farthest end and using a multimeter just check what voltage you're getting while the lights are on/circuit loaded, preferably been on for a while and compare that to the voltage at/near the sub panel, either in the panel itself or an unloaded receptacle close to it. 

It's possible that the daisy chain connectors in the lights are the/one weak point causing issues, I've seen that several times. It's also possible they are just Made in China lights that lived up to their reputation.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Sprung (May 6, 2022)

Thanks for the additional thoughts/information.



JerseyHighlander said:


> It's also possible they are just Made in China lights that lived up to their reputation.



Honestly, that was my first conclusion, and is still my conclusion. I've been thinking some more and think that even if I get replacements under warranty, I'll just replace them with something better. I don't want to have to deal with getting back up to the ceiling and replacing them again in a couple years or so...


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## Schroedc (May 6, 2022)

I converted all my florescent fixtures at the shop to LED replacement tubes, removed the ballasts. Bought a box of 50, worked out to less than 3 bucks a tube. 18 months in, no failures yet. And honestly, with the cost comparable to regular bulbs plus a 40.00 a month drop in my electric bill at the shop it was the easiest way to go. Lately we've been converting the cheap 2 tube fixtures for the garage and basement.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Gdurfey (May 6, 2022)

Sprung said:


> Thanks, guys, for the input!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Almost exactly my wiring except I used 14ga for my lighting circuit Matt. That all sounds like it should never give you an issue. Note, I am not an electrician either but have had all my stuff checked by an expert.


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## Mike Hill (May 9, 2022)

I'm shocked - just plain shocked! You mean these LED's that were pushed upon us and to save us money and are supposed to last 21 years ---- you mean they don't last 21 years?

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## woodtickgreg (May 9, 2022)

Mike Hill said:


> I'm shocked - just plain shocked! You mean these LED's that were pushed upon us and to save us money and are supposed to last 21 years ---- you mean they don't last 21 years?


 Same b.s. they said about the curly cfls.
I change the led bulbs outside on my garage every year. 22 years? Not even 21 months. 
Now my shop lights have held up much better, but they also are not on every day.


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## Mike Hill (May 9, 2022)

I do have one cfl that I am impressed with. Its the light next to the front door. Have a canopy over the front door that tends to drip water on the front door light fixture. The fixture has some vent holes in the cover that tends to let in the rainwater. Cold rainwater - vs- hot incandescent bulbs resulted in Lil Mikey having to change out the bulbs quite frequently. Then this cfl came along that was rated for exterior use - sealed in its own glass case. Put it in - don't really know when, but has to be well over 20+ maybe over 30 years ago. Still going strong - well strong is probably not the correct word - it's sorta like Lil MIkey - not the brightest bulb in the bunch but it still works!

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Sprung (May 12, 2022)

Well, I will give the seller credit for this: They honored the 3 year warranty without any hassle. They asked for some pictures and then sent me a whole new set of 20. It was delivered yesterday.

That has left me with having to make a decision: Still go ahead and replace the lights with something better. Or swap out the lights with the replacements they sent me.

As much as I'd like to buy new lights right now, after discussing it with my wife, I'm going to use the replacements they sent me, expecting that I'll certainly have to replace them at some point down the road. With the cost of everything going up, already having to tighten the budget because of it, and trying to still afford to go on the trips to see family we planned for this summer, it's the decision that had to be made. And given the choice between new shop lights and making sure my kids get to spend time with their grandparents this summer, well, time with family is of such greater importance that there is no comparison.

Since I gotta swap them all out, one thing I do plan to do is not use those butt connectors the connect the lights end to end. I did have some problems with those on occasion, and I wonder if they might've contributed to the cheap lights being cheap lights problem. I'm going to use the wires to connect the lights instead.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Way Cool 2 | Sincere 1


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## woodtickgreg (May 12, 2022)

Heck if they sent me new lights I'd use them too, even if it only bought me some time until I had to replace them.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Sprung (May 12, 2022)

Yeah, I just really, really dislike doing overhead work like that. Ladders and I don't get along well and I've got issues with both shoulders from prior injuries. That's why it was still a consideration to maybe still buy new lights and do it once and call it good for hopefully a long while.

Reactions: Like 1 | Sincere 2


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