# Heart pine ID?



## milkbaby (Nov 15, 2017)

Hi y'all, I got some knife scales from somebody I believe to be a reputable. It was advertised as heart pine from an over 100 year old barn in South Carolina. Each scale is approximately 5" x 2" x 5/16". The density of growth rings seems to be high enough to be legit, right? Is there any way to tell if these are heart wood or sap wood? What about species, is it possible to identify if it's long leaf pine or some other pine?

On my computer right now, the colors look pretty close to real life. The bookmatched inside faces you're seeing are quite a bit lighter than the outside faces. The other side looks dark similar colors to the end grain pic.

Edited to add: Just judging weight in hand it feels a little bit denser than black walnut but not by a huge amount.
Thanks, I'm lookin forward to being edjumacated bout some heart pine! 

https://i.Rule #2/hgSGteBh.jpg

https://i.Rule #2/KnQwoOfh.jpg

Reactions: Like 1


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## Schroedc (Nov 15, 2017)

Looks like the stuff all over my house built in 1916. 

Smooth sanded close ups of the end grain would help with a more positive ID.

Check out www.hobbithouseinc.com

Paul had an amazing collection of wood ID photos and you may be able to match it right up there.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## Mr. Peet (Nov 15, 2017)

Looks like regular yellow pine to me. Heart pine is reserved for heartwood. You may in fact have old growth in your hand, and it may have been harvested 100 or more years ago, but first sight does not ring heart-pine to me. As for species, that battle is likely over. Many of the hard-pines look tremendously alike. One growing under certain stresses can easily mimic another under normal conditions and so on.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## milkbaby (Nov 15, 2017)

Thanks y'all, I was happy to get this wood to try on a knife as I find it attractive anyhow. I just didn't want to misrepresent it to prospective buyers. When I get the chance, I'll try and sand the end grain up and get a better pic.


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## phinds (Nov 16, 2017)

Mr. Peet said:


> Looks like regular yellow pine to me. Heart pine is reserved for heartwood. You may in fact have old growth in your hand, and it may have been harvested 100 or more years ago, but first sight does not ring heart-pine to me. As for species, that battle is likely over. Many of the hard-pines look tremendously alike. One growing under certain stresses can easily mimic another under normal conditions and so on.


Yeah. What he said.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## milkbaby (Nov 16, 2017)

Since I said I would post another end grain pic... though I think this pic is worse than the original! When I sanded, it seemed like the pores got all filled up and I couldn't blow them out.

https://i.Rule #2/YSdFkbwh.jpg


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## phinds (Nov 16, 2017)

Just FYI, from my site on heart pine:

*Heart Pine --- Pinus spp.* 
Pinus spp. of the family Pinaceae, the pine family. Generally Pinus palustris and sometimes Pinus taeda, but it's complicated ... see (1), (2), and (3) below 

"heart pine" is a term that is thrown about somewhat sloppily, and has different meaning depending on who's talking and what they're selling. Specifically, it is used as follows: 

(1) Old growth long leaf pine (aka Southern long leaf yellow pine and about 200 other names, but is usually Pinus palustris and sometimes Pinus taeda), which is a very slow growing pine and has more pitch than most pines, requiring a particularly hot kiln setting to set the pitch. Growing for as much as 300 to 500 years, the tree got to as much as 175 feet high and four to five feet DBH with a high ring count (sometimes as much as 30 to 35 per inch). It was the main type of pine found in the old growth forests from Virginia to Texas and is called "heart" because when it reaches maturity the tree is mostly heartwood which is not true of most other pines. It is an unusually strong pine and was used for the masts of sailing ships and was referred to as "The Kings Pine" when the US was a British colony. One report even said that old growth long leaf has a strength approximating red oak and wears like iron in flooring. Most early homes in the South of the USA used Heart Pine for flooring, furniture and cabinetry and it was also used extensively in larger construction because of its strength. It often has a rich amber color, as you can see in the pics below 

(2) Any pine lumber that is all heartwood with no sapwood, or by some standards, up to 10% sapwood, but in any case it is not required to be old growth or even have a high ring count or be particularly strong. By this definition, lumber cut from the heartwood of *any* pine species is "heart pine" and trying to assign a species to it is pointless. 

(3) "Antique" or "reclaimed" heart pine is lumber that has been salvaged from old buildings or in some cases, "sinker" lumber that has be salvaged from rivers but in either case it is (or SHOULD be if correctly advertised) the original old growth described in (1) above. Keep in mind, however, that despite what people in the flooring industry will tell you, calling pine "heart pine" only because it was dragged from a river or because it came from an old building is just a BS marketing ploy if is not really old growth long leaf pine.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## phinds (Nov 16, 2017)

milkbaby said:


> Since I said I would post another end grain pic... though I think this pic is worse than the original! When I sanded, it seemed like the pores got all filled up and I couldn't blow them out.


The pic is decent, but uh ... pores in a gymnosperm? I think you are confused.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## vegas urban lumber (Nov 17, 2017)

the bristlescone pine i have looks similar only tighter grained, and yes very heavy compared to new growth soft pine or fir lumbers. hows the smell?

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## milkbaby (Nov 18, 2017)

phinds said:


> The pic is decent, but uh ... pores in a gymnosperm? I think you are confused.



I admit total ignorance. I thought that I saw little holes in the end grain before sanding, but afterwards I couldn't see them anymore.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## phinds (Nov 19, 2017)

milkbaby said:


> I admit total ignorance. I thought that I saw little holes in the end grain before sanding, but afterwards I couldn't see them anymore.


Probably just micro-pits in the wood from tearout when it was cut and sanding smoothed everything out. Softwoods don't have pores.

Reactions: Informative 1


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