# Any ideas? Small bush/tree



## ClintW (Jun 23, 2015)

Found this in the woods where they are digging some storm drains in towards the river. Was about 6" dia at base. It's quite hard. The yellow color is accurate.

Reactions: Way Cool 1


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## ripjack13 (Jun 23, 2015)

Did you get the bark and leaves? If you did, post up pix of em to help id this...


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## phinds (Jun 23, 2015)

Good pics. What with it being diffuse porous with strong dendritic pore groups and either no rays or sparse, tiny rays, I feel like I should be able to ID this with no sweat, but I'm just not putting my finger on it for some reason. The pattern looks familiar but I'm not finding it in my anatomy pages. I'm probably just going blind or something. I'll keep looking. It looks a little like hornbeam without the rays or hophornbean with too-fat pore groups but I doubt it's either of those. Holly is another remote possibility.

@Mr. Peet , you have any ideas? I get the feeling that when we do pin this down I'm going to feel like a doofus for not getting it right off.

Clinton, do you have a distance shot of the face grain?

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## ClintW (Jun 23, 2015)

I'll snap a photo of the bark once I get home tonight. I'll get a larger face grain shot too. The face grain shot is quartersawn.

Looking on Hobbit House, I had thought maybe buckthorn or chittamwood?


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## phinds (Jun 23, 2015)

ClintW said:


> Looking on Hobbit House, I had thought maybe buckthorn or chittamwood?






I KNEW I'd seen that before and my problem was that I forgot that chittamwood and buckthorn have not yet made it to my anatomy pages and I was focusing there. Yeah, I'd say it's chittam (*Sideroxylon lanuginosum*) for sure. Good catch.

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## ClintW (Jun 23, 2015)

Sweet! Is this stuff worth processing? There are a few that are 5-8 inches dia at the base that were pushed over to make way for the construction. Sadly it's all pretty straight.


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## phinds (Jun 23, 2015)

From what little I've seen of it, it appears that it would be attractive for small turnings, but I've never worked any. The burl is much more attractive.


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## ClintW (Jun 24, 2015)

Bark from the tree/bush. And upper part where the bark hasn't split, and lower part around the trunk. And a larger face grain shot.

Reactions: EyeCandy! 1 | Way Cool 1


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## Mr. Peet (Jun 24, 2015)

Clinton,

I don't have any of that "Chittamwood", _Sideroxylon lanuginosum_ in my wood collection. I would love to trade for a piece or buy one outright. My samples finish at 3" by 6" by 1/2 inch thick, so a 3/4 by 4" by 8" sealed green might work. Or I can wait until fall and get it then to assure the lower likelihood of checking.

Nice score.

Mark...


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## phinds (Jun 24, 2015)

I'd love to have the same thing Mark is asking for if you do happen to have any to spare. I have one sample piece but I never consider one to be sufficient because of wood variations.


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## Mr. Peet (Jun 24, 2015)

Hay, where did that those pics come from? Now those look to be of the "Buckthorn" clan. Two different trees? Maybe I missed something. I'll have to step back and ponder but need to head to bed. Good night....


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## ClintW (Jun 24, 2015)

Same tree....This is where I got confused from my online research also. I'll try to get some pieces of those sizes together for you two. Forgot to snap a photo of the leaves. If that helps I'll get that early next week. Going out of town for a few days.


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## ClintW (Jun 24, 2015)

@DRW
Does this look like the straight grain chittum you have worked with? Or not at all? Thanks!


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## DRW (Jun 25, 2015)

@ClintW If the first pic and second pic are of the same tree, it isn't chittum. Chittum doesn't have any smooth bark on it at all. I'd agree with Mr. Peet and say it is buckhorn. Now, if you want straight grain Chittum.....that I can come up with easy! Dave
http://forestry.ohiodnr.gov/buckthorn

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## Kevin (Jun 25, 2015)

DRW said:


> Now, if you want straight grain Chittum.....that I can come up with easy! Dave



I'd like to get some from you Dave so I can sell it to Mark and Paul.

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## phinds (Jun 25, 2015)

Kevin said:


> I'd like to get some from you Dave so I can sell it to Mark and Paul.


Hey, that's dirty pool !


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## ClintW (Jun 25, 2015)

Yes they are same tree. @DRW Could you post some pics of the chittum tree bark and such if you get a chance? And a clean endgrain from a straight piece of wood? I'm just curious now. Cause the end grain of this buckthorn had me fooled, but I agree the bark is identical to buckthorn and they are from the same tree for sure.

Regardless, I will be cutting some up. It's dang hard stuff. And looks cool. Maybe make some knife handles from it once dried. I think a crosscut piece would be way cool on a knife handle.

Thanks everyone who chimed in to help!

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## phinds (Jun 25, 2015)

There are numerous end grain shots of buckthorn on my site (and a couple of chittum). It looks more like a piece of chittum I have but the two are hard to distinguish based only on that so if the tree stuff says buckthorn, that's more reliable.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Mr. Peet (Jun 25, 2015)

The "Chittum" that Dave referred to I am assuming is the American "Smoke tree", _Cotinus obovatus_. Once again common names can cover several trees and some noting alike. Nice wood, much like working hardened sumac. Similar graining and color schemes. There are a few "Buckthorns" that take up root in Texas. I think we were on route with the _Sideroxylon lanuginosum _ID. Good night....


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## JR Parks (Jun 25, 2015)

That bark sure doesn't look like our *Chittamwood, Gum Bumelia, Woolybucket Bumelia, Gum Elastic, Wooly Buckthorn, Gum Woolybucket, Wooly Bumelia, False Buckthorn, Shittamwood, Ironwood, Coma *_Bumelia lanuginosa or Sideroxylon lanuginosum. From Texas A&M database 
_
The wood sample does tho-


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## Mr. Peet (Jun 28, 2015)

Jr / Jim,
Can you wrestle up or should I say down some "Wooly Bumelia", _Sideroxylon lanuginosum_? I am not familiar with this wood, and based on the first pictures on Paul's site, the wood appears ring porous. As for Clinton's sample, it appears diffuse porous. The bark pictures and single leaf or two say "Buckthorn" to me. Does _Rhamnus cathartica_ dwell in Texas? I've heard folks talk of a "yellow Buckthorn", which I am not familiar with also. Paul's second Gary Green sample is not ring porous, and matches Clinton's sample very well. I wonder if Gary's supplier mislabeled stock. 

So, I say Clinton's wood is likely a "Buckthorn", _Rhamnus_ genus, species to be determined.


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## JR Parks (Jun 28, 2015)

Mark,
Bumelia grows around here and I will find a piece for you. I don't know R cathartica our buckthorn most common around Central Texas is Carolina Buckthorn (Rhamnus caroliniana the way I learned it but now Frangula caroliniana). Also called yellow buckthorn by the A&M hort site (http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu). Its a small tree and I have seen no specimens large enough for samples. Jim


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## Mr. Peet (Jun 29, 2015)

Why is it called "yellow buckthorn"? If it is the wood, I think Jim has found the answer in "Carolina buckthorn". If that is the actual species, I still want a piece. Thanks Jim, we'll see what Clinton comes up with and maybe Kevin can help out as well. Good day.


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## A Boyd (Nov 26, 2015)

It is extremely rare in that the wood was harvested during the civil war to make yellow dyes. It grows in limestone and the root has to be chiseled out. Mainly grows in the Huntsville, AL area, Israel, and no where else. It is related to the cashew tree and is also called the "smoketree". As for its value, I have no information on that. I will say this though, a friend told me that a pen made from this wood cost over a hundred dollars. The common price that I have found for a 3/4" x 5 ' is $22.95 a stick. The root is very difficult to get at and many times it is broken up when removing it from the rocks. A root that is around a foot long can go for as much as $100 or more. Many people are selling Osage as chittum. They look alike in color, but the chittum is a small scrub tree and its branches usually drop toward the ground and snap. The pieces that I am turning now cuts like butter using HSS turning tools. This is a very rare wood and don't let anyone tell you that it's a Smoke wood and grows somewhere else like Oregon, ei. I haven't seen any burl. That doesn't mean that there aren't any. If anybody did get a hold of an underground burl than that wood is worth it's weight in gold.


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## Mr. Peet (Nov 26, 2015)

I wish I knew the binomial for the wood you are talking of A Boyd. Sounds similar to "Tree heath", _Erica arborea_. I realize that is not the case. I know "Smokebush", _Continus spp_. is related to cashew and sumac, but you said it was not "Smokebush". The can of worms I thought I forgot is now crawling again with unrest....


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## ripjack13 (Nov 26, 2015)

Howdy Antoine, welcome to Woodbarter....don't forget to post up an introduction topic here....
http://woodbarter.com/forums/introductions.3/





A Boyd said:


> It is extremely rare in that the wood was harvested during the civil war to make yellow dyes. It grows in limestone and the root has to be chiseled out. Mainly grows in the Huntsville, AL area, Israel, and no where else. It is related to the cashew tree and is also called the "smoketree". As for its value, I have no information on that. I will say this though, a friend told me that a pen made from this wood cost over a hundred dollars. The common price that I have found for a 3/4" x 5 ' is $22.95 a stick. The root is very difficult to get at and many times it is broken up when removing it from the rocks. A root that is around a foot long can go for as much as $100 or more. Many people are selling Osage as chittum. They look alike in color, but the chittum is a small scrub tree and its branches usually drop toward the ground and snap. The pieces that I am turning now cuts like butter using HSS turning tools. This is a very rare wood and don't let anyone tell you that it's a Smoke wood and grows somewhere else like Oregon, ei. I haven't seen any burl. That doesn't mean that there aren't any. If anybody did get a hold of an underground burl than that wood is worth it's weight in gold.


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## pinky (Nov 27, 2015)

If you guys are looking for chittam let me know.


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## phinds (Jul 23, 2016)

@ClintW, I got the piece that you sent me out of my attic a while back and gave it to Mark who cut me a sample from it and will make his own from what's left. I've posted the pics of my part on my site. Well, actually, it' only on my hard drive right now but it will go up to the site the next time I do a mirror. Thanks again.


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## ClintW (Jul 23, 2016)

Glad to have helped. Hope the piece was of satisfactory quality.


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## phinds (Jul 23, 2016)

ClintW said:


> Glad to have helped. Hope the piece was of satisfactory quality.


Oh, it definitely was. I got a very good end grain pic. Here's one face and a 1/2" x 1/2" section of the end grain.:



 
The other side doesn't have the wane but it shows some of the cracking.

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