# Vacuum Equipment options



## Maverick (Oct 30, 2019)

Hi All, I would like to take a dive into stabilization and ultimately casting. I have done a good bit of research and watched the requisite number of youtube videos and I have elected to purchase ready made products vs making my own. I have a couple of options to get me started but before I tell the options, my biggest concern is that both options have the 3/4 inch acrylic lid...... *is that a deal breaker right there and should I keep looking? *

Ok, with that question out of the way, here are what I consider my two best options right now. 

Option one.... A BACOENG 3 gallon Vacuum chamber with 3.6 CFM one stage pump for $60 from a liquidation dealer. From all appearances in the pictures, it has not been used. New Amazon price is $127.00

Option two....a new 5 gal vacuum chamber, (they did not provide a manufacturing name, but it has a red edge around the acrylic lid. From the picture comparison, it looks like a Bestauto which runs from $75 to $98 on Amazon. I can get this for $60 also. 

If I go with option two, then of course I have to still pick up a pump. 

What say yee, oh wise men and woman? 

(and yes, I know I will probably get plenty of opposing opinions and ultimately the decision is mine....but I still value your opinions and recommendations....thanks)


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## Gdurfey (Oct 30, 2019)

Not an expert, it my buddy took a 3/4 inch acrylic square, drilled and tapped for outlet, gauge, etc, and then used tubing as gasket material around the edge of a 10 or so quart, heavy cooking pot. 

Understand you aren’t making your own, but just wanted to share that the acrylic seems to be doing okay.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Tony (Oct 30, 2019)

@Sprung


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## Maverick (Oct 30, 2019)

Thanks Gary, Part of my hesitation with the acrylic is that I have read it can start cracking or at least spider webbing in a short time. Maybe it’s a crap shoot.


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## jasonb (Oct 30, 2019)

https://www.turntex.com/help-center/questions-and-answers/stabilizing-with-cactus-juice

Lots of good info there that touches on those subjects.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Maverick (Oct 30, 2019)

Thanks Jason, I agree, a lot of good info on Curtis’s site.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Sprung (Oct 30, 2019)

As far as chambers go, my opinion is to stay away from anything acrylic. Acrylic and stabilizing resin do not get along - get resin on your lid, and you could eventually have a lid failure - cracking/crazing/spider webbing/whatever you want to call it. I have an original square TurnTex chamber that was made out of acrylic. The last run I did in it, the container I used inside the chamber so the resin doesn't come in contact with the acrylic leaked. After sitting like that for close to 2 weeks while I was out of town, the chamber has so many tiny cracks throughout it, especially where it was in extended contact with the resin, I refuse to ever put it under vacuum again on account of safety. I have also read lots of accounts of people who have had their acrylic lids shatter in use once it has become cracked/etc. But I also know lots of people who use acrylic lids and it doesn't shatter. Personally, I'd save up and buy a better chamber that doesn't use acrylic. And building your own isn't difficult. If you do buy one with an acrylic lid, do understand that they are not designed for stabilizing or extended time under vacuum - they're made for short vacuum times to extract some sort of resin from marijuana. With the possibility of lid problem, do understand that with an acrylic lid, someday you may have to replace a failed or failing lid.

As far as pump goes, really any vacuum pump will get you there. A two stage pump will give you better vacuum than a single stage pump, but either will be fine. Just don't suck resin into the pump and make sure you change the oil frequently. If you lock up a cheap pump, it's toast. Lock up a good pump, like something from JB, and you can disassemble it and fix it.

I could expand on the above, but my brain is fried after a long day and I still have more to get done before I call it a night. If any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Maverick (Oct 31, 2019)

Thanks Matt, I appreciate your feedback. At the price point, I may still go ahead and give it a try. Even if things go south, I haven't broken the bank and perhaps I can find a glass lid to replace the acrylic if I need to later. The vortex keeps getting deeper and deeper..... LOL

Reactions: Funny 1


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## kweinert (Oct 31, 2019)

You might check out this link as well: https://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/EVS/concept.htm

It isn't related to the actual system but it can help in the long run. It's basically a vacuum reservoir system. You draw a vacuum and 'store' it in some 3 or 4" PVC with a controller. With it all set up it will shut off your vacuum pump until the vacuum rises too much at which point it kicks back on. If your system doesn't have leaks (or at least as leak free as you can make it) you can keep your chamber empty without your vacuum pump running full time.

I've found it very useful. Since I ended up getting a full piece of 4" PVC I just added a few fittings and made mine a 4 chamber reservoir.

It is kind of funny calling it a reservoir when the purpose is to store (literally) nothing.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


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## Sprung (Oct 31, 2019)

Maverick said:


> glass lid





The thought of glass under vacuum in the shop scares the snot out of me, and then some. I know some people run glass chambers or glass lids. But what you've got there is a bomb. Knock something over that hits your glass chamber or lid while under vacuum? Not notice a small crack from something bumping it while not in use and then put it under vacuum? If that glass breaks under vacuum, the force of the vacuum will pull the pieces of glass so hard they'll fly out the other direction. Yup, sounds like a bomb going off to me... I remember reading once about someone whose glass chamber exploded in the workshop while they were, thankfully, not in there. Not just resin everywhere, but pieces and shards of glass everywhere, some of it embedded pretty well. Will the glass withstand the vacuum - if it's of the right type and thickness, most definitely - but I'd be concerned about the "what if" of something breaking the glass.


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## Maverick (Oct 31, 2019)

@Sprung , Hi Matt, you have me so confused now. So the pot/chamber is metal, the only thing that is acrylic is the lid. Maybe I was misunderstanding the failure point of the acrylic issues. It thought it was in the lid, but maybe it was the actual chamber that was acrylic that was the problem. In any case, here is what the chamber and pump looks like.





I copied the wrong pic originally and now cant get rid of this one. The top picture is the correct one.


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## Sprung (Oct 31, 2019)

Acrylic for either the chamber or the lid can pose issues. Stabilizing resin and acrylic don't play well together.

With is as a chamber material, you would need some sort of internal container to contain the resin so the resin doesn't sit in the acrylic chamber.

With it as a lid material, you have to be careful about it splashing around and getting in contact with the lid, or letting it bubble up too much and getting into contact, etc. Certainly it can work as a lid material - lots of people use it - but some also have their acrylic lids fail at some point.

But, I'm also a big proponent of a proper chamber that doesn't present any potential issues... I built my own chambers using Schedule 40 Clear PVC w/ PVC end cap as the bottom and a 1" thick piece of PVC for the lid, with a ring of Buna-N rubber I cut out for the gasket. Easy to clean, don't have to use another internal container, and I know for a fact that the resin isn't going to ever possibly wreak havoc on my chamber. (Used to be chambers, but I've pared back to one chamber these days.)

Just my opinion from having previously done some pretty heavy stabilizing for a while. As I said, many (including some members here) use chambers with acrylic lids and get a lot of use out of them, but considering how many posts I've seen in various people saying their lids failed and the pictures I've seen of acrylic lids in pieces in their chamber with stabilizing resin splashed everywhere, my preference was to spend the money and build some good chambers that didn't use acrylic.

Best Value Vacs is another company that offers chambers like you're looking at, with acrylic lids. Made specifically for extracting some sort of resin from marijuana. They found many people buying and using their chambers for stabilizing - and then many people having problems with their chambers used for stabilizing - and they have since released their own PVC chamber for stabilizing. BVV says this about their chambers:



> • BestValueVac® Chambers are not compatible with stabilization resin (i.e. Cactus Juice™, Gator Venom™, Minwax™ etc.), alcohol, ethanol, acetone and acrylic based monomers or polymers.The lid may only be cleaned with soapy water.• ShatterVac® chambers are not compatible with stabilization resin (i.e. Cactus Juice™, Gator Venom™, Minwax™ etc.), acetone, acrylic based monomers or polymers. The lid may be cleaned with soapy water and low strength cleaning agents.• GlassVac® chambers are compatible with all solvents and stabilization resins. We only recommend and warranty GlassVac® chambers for resin infusion and wood stabilization.The lid may be cleaned with any solvent or cleaning agent.



The Best Value Vac chambers use acrylic lids. The ShatterVac chambers use polycarbonate lids.


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## Maverick (Oct 31, 2019)

@Sprung, OK, I understand what you were saying now. Thanks for your input and expertise.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Maverick (Oct 31, 2019)

@kweinert , thanks Ken, very interesting. Depending on how far I go down this rabbit hole, I may want to circle back to to that article.


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## John Mikulski (Nov 11, 2019)

Acrylic is a BIG no no for wood stabilizing... You will get micro cracks and the stabilizing resin will actually start to dissolve the lid... eventually you will have a lid implode and can be very dangerous (speaking from experience). Glass vac, as referenced above is a rock solid solution and quite affordable. The glass tops are thick and will last a lifetime! Turntex also makes some great chambers.


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## John Mikulski (Nov 11, 2019)

Best value vac makes both acrylic and glass tops, the dead giveaway is that the glass tops will not have a hole drilled in them and the valve porting goes into the side of the chamber.


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## John Mikulski (Nov 11, 2019)

Maverick said:


> @Sprung , Hi Matt, you have me so confused now. So the pot/chamber is metal, the only thing that is acrylic is the lid. Maybe I was misunderstanding the failure point of the acrylic issues. It thought it was in the lid, but maybe it was the actual chamber that was acrylic that was the problem. In any case, here is what the chamber and pump looks like.
> 
> View attachment 173622
> 
> ...




the bottom picture has the glass top.. please beware not to get the top acrylic pot.


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## Maverick (Nov 11, 2019)

Thanks John, I did go ahead and get the chamber with the acrylic lid based on the Q&A posted on the TurnTex site which I am quoting below. I will be careful about avoiding contact between the Cactus juice and the lid.

Can I use a Acrylic lid on my Chamber with Cactus juice or do I need to get a glass one?
Acrylic can indeed be used for a lid IF it is sufficiently thick enough. Cactus Juice, in direct contact with the acrylic for extended periods, can case a slimy film to build up on the acrylic but you lid should not be in direct contact to begin with. Some chamber manufacturers claim that Cactus Juice will cause the lid to crack due to "fumes" but they do not understand the chemistry of Cactus Juice. There are no "fumes" from Cactus Juice, even under full vacuum. Most acrylic lid failures are caused by insufficient thickness of the acrylic


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## John Mikulski (Nov 11, 2019)

If u start to see spider cracking after a few cycles please be cautious.

Reactions: Informative 3


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## jasonb (Nov 11, 2019)

John Mikulski said:


> If u start to see spider cracking after a few cycles please be cautious.
> 
> View attachment 173976


 Looks like a crime scene.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Maverick (Nov 11, 2019)

John Mikulski said:


> If u start to see spider cracking after a few cycles please be cautious.



OH, wow, that DOES look like a crime scene. Hope no one was hurt. I truly appreciate the advice and that was and will continue to be my plan. Use it as long as it appears no issues and at the first sign of any cracks, fissures, spider cracks whatever.....purchase the glass lid. Thanks and be safe out there.


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## rocky1 (Dec 1, 2019)

John, the spider web cracking is commonly referred to as "crazing" and juice coming in contact with the lid IS NOT necessary for the lid to craze. I have a 10 gallon BVV pot with Acrylic lid and crazing commenced on that one along about the second time I used it. It had nothing anywhere near the lid, I had several glad lunchmeat dishes in the bottom of a 10 gallon pot, stabilizing pen blanks. The fumes are enough to cause the problem with the acrylic lid crazing. That being said however, it has yet to implode, and still seals amazingly well several years later, however the acrylic lid on the 10 gallon pot exceeds 1" thick. 

Like you, if/when it ever implodes, I'll replumb through the side of the tank, and replace with a glass lid.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Maverick (Dec 1, 2019)

Thanks Rocky, appreciate your real life experience as well. I haven’t got my feet wet yet but hope to in the next few months.

Reactions: Like 1


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