# Pricing advice please



## duncsuss (Sep 23, 2014)

I'm planning to put the maple burl whatsit in THIS THREAD for sale, but have no idea what to ask. It's about 8 inches tall, about 6" diameter at the rim. I'd like your opinions/observations. Here's one photo so you don't have to follow the link to see what I'm talking about ... Thanks!!!

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## Schroedc (Sep 23, 2014)

I have no idea what the market is like out East compared to Podunk where I live..... I've heard a couple turners use a base rule of 10.00 per inch in diameter and then add for material, figure, natural edge, height but I don't know how well that really works out either......

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## Kevin (Sep 23, 2014)

I didn't vote because I don't feel qualified to do so. We have a lot of turners that have sold at shows& in stores etc. who will hopefully be able to guide you. It's pretty though.

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## duncsuss (Sep 23, 2014)

Schroedc said:


> I've heard a couple turners use a base rule of 10.00 per inch in diameter and then add for material, figure, natural edge, height but I don't know how well that really works out either......


I think a formula like this works better for a simple bowl, and I've priced a couple of pieces along those lines. (My wife insists I should have asked more for them!)

In this case, the extras could add up to more than the base price, which is just adding to my normal level of confusion.


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## DKMD (Sep 23, 2014)

I'm not too into selling stuff, so I picked a number that I'd be comfortable with. It's a nice looking piece, and I'll bet you find it a new home. 

My limited experience with selling has told me that the vast majority of folks in my area don't appreciate the cost of materials or time invested in finishing something like this.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 4


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## Tony (Sep 23, 2014)

I don't turn, so I have no idea of price. I voted though, based on what I thought you could get. It has been my experience that most people don't have a full appreciation for the time (and cost of machines, etc.) it takes to do what we/you do. It is a beautiful piece! TA

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## duncsuss (Sep 23, 2014)

DKMD said:


> I'm not too into selling stuff, so I picked a number that I'd be comfortable with. It's a nice looking piece, and I'll bet you find it a new home.
> 
> My limited experience with selling has told me that the vast majority of folks in my area don't appreciate the cost of materials or time invested in finishing something like this.





Tony said:


> I don't turn, so I have no idea of price. I voted though, based on what I thought you could get. It has been my experience that most people don't have a full appreciation for the time (and cost of machines, etc.) it takes to do what we/you do. It is a beautiful piece! TA



Thanks. I really don't know if it's down to folks not being aware of what goes into it, or if it's down to us not explaining well enough how a woodturner doesn't make stuff like you can get at Kitchen, etc. or Ikea.

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## SENC (Sep 23, 2014)

Beautiful piece! In my opinion, there is someone (probably many) who would pay several hundred for it. The problem is, how do you get it in front of them? The person who would pay "full value" loves custom, one of a kind pieces and has a space that your piece would fit perfectly. On the other hand, to get someone to buy it who doesn't already have a place for it nor a penchant for unique, it would probably have to be priced at or below $100.

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## Tony (Sep 23, 2014)

duncsuss said:


> if it's down to us not explaining well enough how a woodturner doesn't make stuff like you can get at Kitchen, etc. or Ikea



That is a good point. Something to think about for sure. TA


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## Torque Turner (Sep 23, 2014)

If I was to sell this piece in a gallery, I'd price it at $130-$150 since they take 40%. If there's no gallery involved, I'd price it around $80. Nice work.

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## ironman123 (Sep 24, 2014)

Easy to say, hard to do but price at what you are comfortable with to let it go.


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## duncsuss (Sep 24, 2014)

ironman123 said:


> Easy to say, hard to do but price at what you are comfortable with to let it go.


Eventually, I'll do exactly what you suggest -- but I'm interested in knowing how much you would ask for it. (One of the reasons being that other people have no ego investment in the piece, and are likely to see it for "what it is" rather than what I put into it.)

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## David Hill (Sep 24, 2014)

I _do_ sell stuff, soooo.......
Comfort in price is everything. Since it's not a "regular" turning, I'd be more likely to ask more $$. It's always easy to "come down" once the price is put on it---it's fun to haggle. I'd put at least a hunnert on it--maybe more if it turns out nice.

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## NYWoodturner (Sep 24, 2014)

I don't sell a lot of my work, but when I do I take the cost of everything - wood, sand paper, finish, embellishments, shipping supplies - everything except my time and with double that cost or triple. The difference between double and triple is complexity and extra steps involved. Most pieces I do are just to relax and decompress. I'm going to do it anyway just because I need to. Its almost therapeutic for me  So if I double my money its a good investment any day. If I have to jump through hoops, make jigs, buy parts / tools etc Im going to triple just from a business sense, but will still probably net doubling the investment. 
I know a lot of folks don't subscribe to that theory and think i should charge for every minute, but I'm doubling my money and they are getting a value. Its a win win in my book.

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## SENC (Sep 24, 2014)

NYWoodturner said:


> I don't sell a lot of my work, but when I do I take the cost of everything - wood, sand paper, finish, embellishments, shipping supplies - everything except my time and with double that cost or triple. The difference between double and triple is complexity and extra steps involved. Most pieces I do are just to relax and decompress. I'm going to do it anyway just because I need to. Its almost therapeutic for me  So if I double my money its a good investment any day. If I have to jump through hoops, make jigs, buy parts / tools etc Im going to triple just from a business sense, but will still probably net doubling the investment.
> I know a lot of folks don't subscribe to that theory and think i should charge for every minute, but I'm doubling my money and they are getting a value. Its a win win in my book.


Outstanding answer. I'd like to commission a knife.

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## MikeMD (Sep 25, 2014)

Duncan, I do sell (have a show starting tomorrow as a matter of fact...). Here's the challenge I have with pricing this for you...

First of all, people don't, in my opinion, tend to understand the complexity of this shape, and HFs. Therefore, they aren't willing to pay as much for them as they are for bowls. Not sure if it is the 'usefulness' thing, or what. So, unfortunately, this type/shape doesn't bring in the amount that bowls will.

Secondly, the price that someone puts on a piece like this is directly related to the price on their other turnings. A couple of weeks ago, Tony De Masi and I were doing a local (to me) show. We were most certainly some of the nicer/nicest vendors at the show. Not tooting my own horn, just painting the picture of the level of show. Our prices were beyond most of the customers, or should I call them lookers. If I had something similar to your piece, I would have had $160-220 on it. And it wouldn't have likely sold. Now, there there was another turner/vendor there. He was new (one year or so of turning) at this craft. He probably would have had $40 on your turning. And it probably still wouldn't have sold. 

The reason it probably wouldn't have sold is because the piece is not easy to sell. Someone just has to fall in love with it. When they do, price may not be an issue. That said, the nicer the rest of your turnings are, the more you can ask for this one. If it is your nicest piece, you are more in the $80 range (IMO). If you've got some real knockouts that command $500+, this is a consolation piece (one of your pieces that someone can afford that just wants 'one of your pieces'...but can't afford your pricey stuff). At that last show, we sold $200 bowls. The other turner sold one or two items the whole weekend (from my understanding...and his highest price bowl was probably about what our lowest price one was). Sometimes I'll sell a pen at a show for my going pen price of $50...even though there is a pen turner at the show selling them for $15-20. Why? Because the person wanted a piece from me. Again, not tooting my own horn (I'm actually a pretty humble guy). I'm just saying that is what THAT person wanted. There are plenty of people that I can't give my stuff to...my mother being one of them...but that's another story.

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## duncsuss (Sep 26, 2014)

MikeMD said:


> the nicer the rest of your turnings are, the more you can ask for this one.



Thanks for this insight, Mike. It makes perfect sense, but I would never have thought of it.

I'm still trying to find the someone in the _"Someone just has to fall in love with it. When they do, price may not be an issue"_ category.


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## gman2431 (Sep 26, 2014)

I find myself in your same predicament all the time, some stuff I know what I can get/want ,others I have no clue. 

I don't meet many people that won't try and haggle me so I always put a "haggle tax" in there so I have room to move. It also makes them think they are getting a deal, or is a good negotiator and that keeps them interested a little longer. 

"The longer it sits the cheaper it gets" is something that's quite regular with me also. Once something has been here long enough I can take a little hit just to move it and also try and garnish some more business with them while I'm at it. A repeat customer is worth gold to me over random sales here and there.

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## MikeMD (Sep 28, 2014)

gman2431 said:


> I find myself in your same predicament all the time, some stuff I know what I can get/want ,others I have no clue.
> 
> I don't meet many people that won't try and haggle me so I always put a "haggle tax" in there so I have room to move. It also makes them think they are getting a deal, or is a good negotiator and that keeps them interested a little longer.
> 
> "The longer it sits the cheaper it gets" is something that's quite regular with me also. Once something has been here long enough I can take a little hit just to move it and also try and garnish some more business with them while I'm at it. A repeat customer is worth gold to me over random sales here and there.



Cody, your first sentence hits close to home for me. I often look at one of my pieces and am totally stumped at the price. I have difficulty distancing myself from it emotionally. When I ask another turner to tell me what he thinks I should have on it, and that turner is holding the piece, I visualize it as their turning, and we are usually within $10-25 of each other (and I'm talking about $150-400 items). I lean on this guy a lot for this.

As for haggling, well, it does happen. I've found that it doesn't happen at the nicer shows as much. People are more respectful of the price, and can either afford it or not. But that doesn't always stop everyone from trying...

Funny thing that I've found about turnings...eventually, they all sell. SOMEONE will fall in love with it. It might be 10 minutes after the piece's debut at a show, or it might be 2 years later. At the show I did this weekend, I sold 3 large (16"+) turnings that I've had for a while, two since last year. Go figure. So, I don't start lowering the price. It is what it is, and eventually it'll find a home with someone that loves it. That said, I do hate bringing the same piece to a show it was at the previous year. I'm afraid someone will recognize it. And THAT said, I had a couple come by the show on Saturday that saw me at a show in the Spring. They passed up on a piece back then, saw it still on my shelf, and pulled the trigger. IIRC, I actually had it priced $30 more higher this time!

Cody, I'm not arguing with you, saying you're wrong, or discounting your views. I'm just commenting on my experiences. Your views/points are certainly valid.

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## Tony (Sep 28, 2014)

I think it has a lot to do with how you feel about things. If you want to just continually move merchandise, (turn it if you will), you price it lower. If you want a premium price, you're probably going to have stuff longer. When I come up with something new that I have no idea what price to put on it, I ask 6-8 friends what they think. Just regular people who are representative of Joe Customer. That gives me a ballpark at least of what the public's perception of it. Again, just my thoughts.


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## duncsuss (Sep 28, 2014)

MikeMD said:


> I often look at one of my pieces and am totally stumped at the price. I have difficulty distancing myself from it emotionally.



Exactly what I meant when I wrote_ "I'm interested in knowing how much you would ask for it. (One of the reasons being that other people have no ego investment in the piece, and are likely to see it for "what it is" rather than what I put into it.)"_



Tony said:


> When I come up with something new that I have no idea what price to put on it, I ask 6-8 friends what they think.


You guys are my friends, that's why I asked here

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## gman2431 (Sep 29, 2014)

Saturday the wife and I went to a little town about 40 minutes from us to do a little stream fishing before the season closes.

They just happened to have an arts and crafts thing going, and with this being a high traffic tourist town in the summer with out of staters, I figured it'd be worth dropping in on. All I have to say is it was a real eye opener on what people want for their stuff. 

There was many booths with flatwork and turning. The first one we stopped at had some amazing cutting boards with all kinds of different woods laminated together and in random patterns. I couldn't buy the wood and glue for what he was selling them for done...

Two booths down, more cutting boards but this time it was more of what I thought someone should charge for them. Not a sole in his booth, so I dropped in and chatted real quick while looking at his pens and such. 

It was quite an eye opener to see the differences of pricing while walking around there. I didn't see one thing I thought was overpriced, just a bunch of stuff I felt was under priced.

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## Kevin (Sep 29, 2014)

I see the same thing at arts & craft shows here. I wonder how they make any money at the prices they sell for, and yet I never see much buying either even at the bargain basement prices they're asking. One guy at our local flea market has tons of ERC furniture - both indoor and outdoor, but I never see anyone buy it. Yet there he is month in month our for the past 3 years. He must be selling some of it or how could he keep doing it? But like you say, just the wood and labor alone seem to be all of the price tag . . . . I don't know where the profit is in his prices.

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## MikeMD (Sep 30, 2014)

Hehe, Tony, I did that for a little while, too. My eye opener was when, well, I won't say who it was, I asked 'her' how much I should put on my figured walnut bowl SET with beaded feet, 'she' said, "Oh, gosh, this is difficult...I don't know, maybe $60?"  EACH of the four individual bowls is about $60. The main bowl is more like $200. I can't see it being any less than $400.

I guess that is why you ask 6-8, though...so you get a good variation. Personally, I say pick the one person that has a lot of expendable money that loves to buy things.


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## MikeMD (Sep 30, 2014)

Cody, I'm very fortunate that I live in an area where we really can ask what our stuff is worth...and get it. That said, there are always the pen turners that sell pens for $20-30 at shows. And the cutting board people that sell for peanuts. And the bowl turners that will sell something of similar size that I would sell for $200 for about $40-50. From talking with them, what I've found out is, in general, the guys are hobbyists. They do this to fund tool purchases. If they make $100 in an entire day, so be it. The cutting board guys use cut offs from their other works. So, it is more about labor in than cost of the wood. 

I agree with you, both, Cody and Kevin. The undercutting guys not only are doing this for way less than they should and they deserve, but they cheapen the craft/art, AND make it tough on those of us who are doing this as a business...

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## APBcustoms (Sep 30, 2014)

I think we should have a forum for pricing like this it would be a lot of help to get to know how to price our work. And what it's worth


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## The PenSmith (Oct 27, 2014)

I agree that I am quite late coming to this thread but hopefully my comments still apply and maybe even elitist comments. Woodturners, as a general group, tend to significantly under price our work. We have the most critical eye for what we create, it's to thick, we missed the shape, the finish is not perfect, on and on. Take a look at where you are as a turner and what you have invested, and not just monetarily. We purchased our lathe, we attend meetings, we watch youtube, we ask questions of fellow turners, we buy tools, grinders, jigs, chucks, we post questions on WB, and the list goes on. Why do you do that? Because you want to know something, how much should I sell this for? 

So much today is made on a machine, out of the country with wood that has no character what so ever and is just garbage. People are simply tired of crappy products and attend art shows, galleries, gift shops etc. searching out the handmade items whether it be glass, wood, ceramic, paintings etc. Price your work fair but keep the prices up, you can always come down. If something sells immediately, you probably priced it to low. Price your work with a fair market price and don't sell yourself short, your work _is _good and you have worked hard to get where you are.

My wife and I started doing shows in 2000 all of which were craft shows, this was our testing field, figuring out what sold, what didn't, how to display, what to offer, etc. After 4 years~ of that we stepped up to fine art shows and wow what a difference! Yes, we had to purchase a good tent and display but it paid off. _Fine_ art shows bring a level of buyer that knows and appreciates art, including wood and are willing to pay for the pieces, sure they may haggle but they will buy. Can you imagine paying over $350 for a salt and peppermill set? Insane, but I get that price and more, I love making hollow forms as well and I like to push the envelope with piercing, sandblasting, carving and other things and they still sell. Why do they sell, because we (no me, all of us as turners) are professionals, at least in the eye of the customer and they are willing to pay for that talent.

Note my avatar, I have it priced at $1,100 and I have turned down $800, high price, absolutely but it's 'eye candy' to get the people in the booth. I normally have a dozen hollow forms in the booth along with my mills, the mills sell the best because they are functional and the woods I use are top grade with high figure. If I turn a mill with outstanding figure I have no problem what-so-ever adding a healthy mark up and nobody questions the price.

_Please, please_ don't undersell your work, be proud, be fair and be reasonable !

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