# Quick Finish vs Long term Finish



## Kevin (Nov 29, 2014)

We've had some great finishing conversations going on in various threads - I want to try @MikeMD 's and others' home formulations but for now, I need to finish some pepper mills and I don't have the luxury of hanging on to them for a week or two while finishing them over that time period. 

Currently I am using lacquer because it's super fast and gives a nice finish. But I'm ready to spread my wings and try other things. Keep in mind although I am wanting to explore only finishes that are fast (same day) I still want to hear what you use whether an applied or built finish and whether long or short application times. 

I started out using a friction finish Mylands in fact. I like it. I also experimented with the walnut guy's finishes (Walnut Doctor I think he goes by) but I don't care for them as much as Mylands. Is there any way to use danish oil as a friction polish? Something I can add like carnuba wax to it?


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## Tclem (Nov 29, 2014)

When someone tells me they want a dull "wood look" i have used exactly that. Danish oil about 5 coats applied on the lathe and then several coats of wax and buffed. Keep in mind I am a rookie so you should probably listen to some of these

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## SENC (Nov 29, 2014)

I think the guidance on all oils and oil varnishes (incl. Danish oil) is to let it sit overnight between coats. The fastest finish I know of is CA, if a hard, high gloss finish is acceptable. Andrew Hadden and Aaron Winger have great YouTube videos on CA finishes.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Dennis Ford (Nov 29, 2014)

+1 on CA for a quick finish that is very durable. There is a learning curve to applying it, the main issue seems to be putting on enough that it does not grab the applicator and not putting on so much that it leaves bumps or ridges.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## DKMD (Nov 29, 2014)

Keith Burns has popularized a "10 minutes finish" for his hollowforms. He applies Minwax antique oil heavily then wipes the surface aggressively to remove excess finish. He then immediately buffs with tripoli. I've seen his finished pieces(I even own one), and he achieves a nice soft looking finish. 

It doesn't get you the glossy look that lacquer does, but it is fast and easy. I would suggest a seperate tripoli wheel for the buffer if you go that route although I don't know that it makes a difference.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 3


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## TimR (Nov 29, 2014)

I would have chimed in about Keith Burn's method had doc not have, but will add that if quick and durable is target, antique oil by itself is a great option I often turn to. Wanna try some wet sanding, this stuff works well and the slurry makes a nice pore sealer. 
I like that it builds a bit more than Danish, and in most woods, 2 coats is sufficient and you can leave it matte or buff out if desired. I let mine dry at least overnight if buffing, not wanting to build up possibly on my one tripoli wheel.
Nice thing, touch ups are a breeze anytime.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Mike Jones (Nov 29, 2014)

The fastest (approximately appropriate) pepper mill finish? I think I would vote for the Bealle buffing system.
Next, would be 10 minute epoxy. Applied on a VERY SLOW turning lathe.
Lacquer gets my vote for a one-day finish.
Shellac will dry to touch in 10 minutes, but takes several days to fully cure.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## justallan (Nov 29, 2014)

Great topic, I'll be watching.


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## Kevin (Nov 29, 2014)

@Mike Jones 10 minute epoxy!? The thick stuff in the double tubes?


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## Mike Jones (Nov 29, 2014)

Kevin said:


> @Mike Jones 10 minute epoxy!? The thick stuff in the double tubes?



Well, yeah...or in gallon cans or whatever. With the mill body between centers, protect your drive, revolving center, and bed with tape, Visqueen or whatever. Mix the resin and hardener in a dixie cup or similar, and with the lathe rotating SLOWLY, apply the mix with disposable brush. Smooth the highs and lows with gloved finger...run finger from one end to the other...avoid lifting the finger midway. Warming with task light or other will help it "kick". and it must continue to revolve until it has kicked. There is a window of time when the resin is hardened just enough that it won't run, or sag, but it is still soft enough to get the tape off, trim goobies with a knife etc. The bit left in the cup can get hot....be careful.

Unlike other finishes, a good thick application is OK Clean up with acetone.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Kevin (Nov 29, 2014)

BLO & CA? 

Check this out has anyone done this? This looks verrrrry interesting I'm gonna try it out tonight.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## DKMD (Nov 29, 2014)

I used to do pens that way, and it works fine. Unless you rinse and repeat a number of times, the finish would be really thin. The main thing I don't love about CA finishes is that they're brittle and difficult to repair. If you try it, let us know how it goes.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Schroedc (Nov 29, 2014)

I have also used polyester resin (Like for fiberglass) if I need something that builds and fills fairly fast. Messy and stinky. Make sure you have lots of ventilation but you can build several coats and wet sand and polish....... One drawback is that it can be a bit on the yellow side so you will get some color change on light woods.


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## Tom Smart (Nov 29, 2014)

A variation of this was my go to method. I usually applied about 8 -10 coats. I have since changed to pens plus from Dr's Woodshop, which you kinda poo pooed in the initial post, Kevin. I use it because I got tired of choking on CA and I prefer the less plastic look for wood. I will still use BLO/CA sometimes depending on the wood and it's structure. If not stabilized and it has cracks or small voids I would use it. The BLO will darken the wood a tad, but it also brings the grain out and enhances it.


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## Kevin (Nov 29, 2014)

Tom Smart said:


> I have since changed to pens plus from Dr's Woodshop, which you kinda poo pooed in the initial post,



So many of you like it though. I wonder if it's just because I don't know what I'm doing? NOOoooo that CAN"T be the reason! 

I watched his videos but I just never get the same results. I wonder if he ever made a bad batch and I got some of it. I'd love to tout his products because he's very likable and I like supporting the little guy like that.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Tom Smart (Nov 29, 2014)

For what it's worth, here is what I do: I put a small amount, about a dime size, of pens plus on a folded paper towel and apply it with the lathe at a fairly high speed. With the lathe still running I fold the paper towel over so it is between thumb and forefinger and rub back and forth rapidly until I can feel the heat and it has set. I do 8 coats. Why 8? Because 7 ain't enough and 9 is way too many. Anyway, if you do it right there is no sanding or further smoothing needed. Coat of Ren Wax to finish. Pretty dang easy and no stuck fingers. 

I'm sure it could be done with larger pieces like pepper mills.


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## Wes Murphy (Nov 29, 2014)

Don't forget about Dr Woodshop Pens Plus finish for pepper mills. Nice smooth durable finish with little effort.


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## Kevin (Nov 30, 2014)

Wes Murphy said:


> Don't forget about Dr Woodshop Pens Plus finish for pepper mills. Nice smooth durable finish with little effort.



That the one from him I've used primarily at his suggestion. It's okay but I'm looking for the holy grail of finishes and I don't think it exists.


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## Mike1950 (Nov 30, 2014)

Kevin said:


> That the one from him I've used primarily at his suggestion. It's okay but I'm looking for the holy grail of finishes and I don't think it exists.




It does but it always seems to be on some one else's work!!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


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## Kevin (Nov 30, 2014)

DKMD said:


> If you try it, let us know how it goes.



I didn't even try it because when you said it isn't durable that was enough for me. Got to be durable on a pepper mill. Either that or the mill needs to be ugly enough that they put it away in the closet and on;y bring it out when I visit, and the finish can stand the test of time that way. 

_George Kevin is dropping by put that ugly pepper mill thingy he gave us on the table._

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Kevin (Nov 30, 2014)

Mike1950 said:


> It does but it always seems to be on some one else's work!!



Yes if your name is @Mike Jones you get a perfect finish everyone else gets . . . . . frustrated.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Tom Smart (Nov 30, 2014)

Since this conversation includes thoughts on durability of a finish, I'd be very interested in the experience folks have had with Pens Plus and it's ability to hold up. Like I told Henry in another conversation, I am a sample size of 1 and I'd like the observations and opinions of others that use it.


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## Kevin (Nov 30, 2014)

I tried Pens Plus again last night on a pepper mill made with monkeypod half sap and half heartwood. I can take pics later if yoos guys want. But it doesn't have the same sheen on the sap as it does the heart. Maybe I haven't applied enough coats?


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## barry richardson (Nov 30, 2014)

Minwax fast drying poly is pretty quick, you can easily apply 2 coats in a day. have to brush on unless you have a spray rig though. IMO poly is the most durable of the common finishes, why it's used on floors and furniture so much. Even though poly dries slower than Lacquer, it is a pretty tough finish within a couple of days, where as Lacquer dries to touch fast, takes a couple of weeks to cure where it safe to buff out. This is a finish I use a lot with good results: a coat of danish oil, dry over night, then a coat of rattle-can Minwax spray poly. Basicaly a 2 day finish schedule. Minwax has a better quality nozzle than others and rivals a gun. It's a nice serviceable finish with one coat of spray, but some times I use 2 if I'm going for a higher gloss. It is also much less prone to runs and sags than spray Lacquer...

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Kevin (Nov 30, 2014)

That's good info Barry. Hope that finger isn't hurting too badly.


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## Tony (Nov 30, 2014)

Kevin, my experience with finish on turning is EXTREMELY limited, but I have used Minwax poly as a wipe on with really good results. I know it says to brush or spray, but it is thin enough to wipe on in thin coats, and you can do 3-4 layers a day in our climate.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kevin (Nov 30, 2014)

I've never liked the look of WOP either Tony. Maybe I'm not putting on enough coats. I'm trying to find something that doesn't take 8 coats. I just soaked the latest mill in danish oil and am going to spray it with minwax poly tomorrow as per @barry richardson suggestion and see what that looks like.


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## Tony (Nov 30, 2014)

I don't like WOP either. What I use is the regular can of fast-drying poly that you're supposed to brush on. I've been happy with how it looks after 4 coats applied while it's still on the lathe.


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## DKMD (Nov 30, 2014)

Here's another option... Dries really fast with 10-15 minutes between coats.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kevin (Nov 30, 2014)

I tried a can of that, I can't remember why I didn't like it. I'm just a high maintenance beeyatch when it comes to finish I guess . . . .


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## Tom Smart (Dec 3, 2014)

@Kevin here is a finishing discussion on IAP which may be useful to you:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/finishing-dr-woodshop-qs-128046/

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Tom Smart (Dec 3, 2014)

And another, @Kevin, on using Craft Coat which is another finish option. 

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/how-use-craft-coat-128072/

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## vsauder (Mar 27, 2015)

I was wondering about mixing oil and CA. I have been using the doctors Pen's Plus (PP) on EVERYTHING for the last several months. I have been carrying several of the pens to see how they stand up. They dull some but I am impressed with the finish, but I agree, it sometimes does not seem to pass super fine inspection. Those faint lines that seem to only get bigger with each coat. So I was experimenting with how much I applied, the lathe speed, the type of towel, and the pressure. I am finding that I need to apply ample on the first coat. (And NEVER forget to apply a sanding sealer and "washing" the piece after the final sanding with a final coat of walnut finishing oil (WFO), setting that with a good bit of friction, per the Doctor's video instructions.) I think that stopping the lathe before the piece is completely dry, then buffing with a clean towel or rag in the long direction may help to even the coat. Just moving the towel back and forth with the lathe on is not fast enough to really even the finish (or my lathe is still too fast). If I see lines developing, I have tried buffing with WFO to even the top coat and even a light touch with micro sandpaper to correct it before adding the more PP coats.

I must say, I did a CA finish again recently and almost burnt my finger off. I really like the PP finish for speed (less than 10 minutes to finish a pen) and ease of application. It smells good while you are protecting the wood. If I can wet sand with WFO, then apply a WFO/CA mix as a finish, that might be the best of both worlds. I was afraid that the CA would not stick at all. One thing about WFO, it dries clear. No yellowing like BLO. 

I even used PP on larger flat work. About three coats and lots of elbow grease but it turned out great. And it was done the same day without any stinky slow-drying finish.


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## The PenSmith (Apr 13, 2015)

I use lacquer and get a great finish and I spend less than 30 min. applying the finish, 5-7 coats. Lacquer is about the most durable and forgiving finish that I have found. CA can be very hard to work with and quite unforgiving for application errors. Buffed finishes, Beal, Mylands and others come off with use and a salt or peppermill will get a lot of use! I spray my mills directly on the lathe, slowing the speed down to where it does not sling it off, that allows me to put a very, very heavy coat on and the slow speed allows the lacquer flow around the mill with no drips. If you don't spray it on the lathe, fashion a hook such as a coat hanger, slide the hook all the way through the mill keeping a ' L ' shape at the bottom and the normal hook at the top. Hold the mill by the hook, twirl it as you spray light coats and hang to dry. After the first coat use 600~ grit paper to knock the raised fibers down, wipe down and spray again. Unless something mars the finish keep spraying additional coats once the previous coat is dry 3-5 min at most.

Hope that helps...

All that said, I am curious about wipe on or friction finishes that I can use on my wine bottle stoppers, I have been using spray but I spend far to much time with lacquer. If I can get a reasonably moderate shine on them while they are still on the lathe with something fast I'm good to go.


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