# The "Hard Tool" (Long Reach Carbide)



## Steelart99 (Feb 23, 2013)

So I did post a short build sequence for this tool on the Wood Turning Unlimited forum, but I know that not everyone gets to go to all the forums all the time (Slackers ... )

This tool got dubbed the "Hard Tool" because this is what you turn to when the "Easy Tool" won't do the job. I have to give Doc Keller credit for the name ... and the tool was going to him for "testing" anyway.

The intent was to make a tool that could reach laterally about 5-6" inside hollow forms with fairly flat tops. I also wanted it to be able to work through an entry hole of about 1-1/2" diameter and about 1" tall (sprue shape). I'm still fairly new to hollow form turning, but tried the tool on several forms (see http://woodbarter.com/showthread.php?tid=5257). 

I started with stainless steel 1/2" square stock, tapered the end to 3/8" and cut the flat for the carbide with my surface grinder. Then I built a tool to help me with bending the shape, heated and forged the tool to shape and later added a side piece of steel to help with the rotational loading inherent to tools like this. The forging did not go quite as easy as I thought it would, so the finish on this tool is a bit rough. I added a 1/2" diameter carbide cutter that I got from Capt Eddie.

With the long reach, it did have a tendancy to chatter. I kept making some adjustments and even tried an EWT 3/8" dia carbide cutter which worked a little better. Keller gave me a few suggestions which helped, i.e., light sweeping cuts, clearing the chips and keeping the support as close to the opening as possible. We'll see what other suggestions he might have for improvements on the next one I build.

So here is a series of pics showing some of the build sequence. Any thoughts, ideas or sarcastic comments are welcome. You never know what might be helpful in improving a tool!

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## hobbit-hut (Feb 23, 2013)

I don't have any experience with this but have given the problem some thought. I believe Doc's advice is well founded. The chattering accrues from a loss of leverage. A beefy tool will not prevent that. So how to increase leverage ? I think one possible way is to design a tool rest that will extend into the mouth of the opening even if only an inch or two. About the size of a tongue depressor with a half moon shape on the bottom to give it strength and make the hard tool thinner so as not to choke the mouth opening and still be below center.


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## DKMD (Feb 23, 2013)

The HT has made it to Oklahoma!

I managed to get it stuck into a nice Rosewood handle earlier today, and I hope to take it for a test drive some time in the next 48 hours. I'll post some follow up here when I've had a chance to use it, but I like the looks of it already!


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## hobbit-hut (Feb 23, 2013)

[attachment=18966]


hobbit-hut said:


> I don't have any experience with this but have given the problem some thought. I believe Doc's advice is well founded. The chattering accrues from a loss of leverage. A beefy tool will not prevent that. So how to increase leverage ? I think one possible way is to design a tool rest that will extend into the mouth of the opening even if only an inch or two. About the size of a tongue depressor with a half moon shape on the bottom to give it strength and make the hard tool thinner so as not to choke the mouth opening and still be below center.



Having thought about it some more there is no reason it couldn't have a curve to the left. Assuming several inches can be cleared out like it normally is. You would still need the hard tool for the reach. If the tool rest cleared the mouth opening by 1/16 and the combination of the tool rest and hard tool were at a thickness to be under center by 1/16 that gives you 5/8 total for the rest and the tool. I still believe leverage is the key and see no other way to address that. I'm sure there are a hundred people that will say it won't work or can't be done. I say it can be done but can it be done safely. That I don't know. But as talented as you guys are I think so.


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## Steelart99 (Feb 24, 2013)

hobbit-hut said:


> hobbit-hut said:
> 
> 
> > I don't have any experience with this but have given the problem some thought. I believe Doc's advice is well founded. The chattering accrues from a loss of leverage. A beefy tool will not prevent that. So how to increase leverage ? I think one possible way is to design a tool rest that will extend into the mouth of the opening even if only an inch or two. About the size of a tongue depressor with a half moon shape on the bottom to give it strength and make the hard tool thinner so as not to choke the mouth opening and still be below center.
> ...



I think if I went to a 2"+ diameter entry hole, this might be a better possibility. With a 1/2" square shank in a 1-1/2" diameter entry hole, there is very, very little room for anything else in there especially if I'm counting on some chip clearance. As it was, I dinged my entry hole several times while experimenting. All that said, at the very least, perhaps I could have a tool rest that was a large flat surface directly adjacent to the form so that that the tool always had a solid rest. Also, thinking along the lines you've indicated, what if the "rest" fully captured the tool (wrapped around it) and would rotate and pivot in place ... just inside the entry hole ... hmmm. Things to think about ... I appreciate you taking the time to think about it and put those thoughts down on paper.


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## woodtickgreg (Feb 24, 2013)

Steelart99 said:


> hobbit-hut said:
> 
> 
> > hobbit-hut said:
> ...


I too thought about capturing the tool with a pivoting rest, but if I was to go through all that why wouldn't I just make a hollowing rig and be done with it? I'm just sayin:dunno:


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## barry richardson (Feb 24, 2013)

Nice work Dan! Hope it's a winner! Dont mean to hijack the thread, but the tool on the left is a hollower that an old wood turner/metal worker made for his friends(he has since passed). It works like a champ for forms up to about 8" dia. Doesnt go real deep, but straight bars can be used for that. A version with more capacity should be possible. As you can see, the secret is the outrigger. Might be an idea that a skilled smithy such as your self could refine, call it the "ugly tool" 

[attachment=18981]


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## Steelart99 (Feb 24, 2013)

barry richardson said:


> Nice work Dan! Hope it's a winner! Dont mean to hijack the thread, but the tool on the left is a hollower that an old wood turner/metal worker made for his friends(he has since passed). It works like a champ for forms up to about 8" dia. Doesnt go real deep, but straight bars can be used for that. A version with more capacity should be possible. As you can see, the secret is the outrigger. Might be an idea that a skilled smithy such as your self could refine, call it the "ugly tool"



ooooooo I like that outrigger idea .... I'm gonna have to work out something like that to try! Thanks for the pic!
Dan


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## DKMD (Feb 24, 2013)

That's a cool idea, Barry. Do you hold onto that outrigger while hollowing, or is it just for torque arrest with the tool rest? I don't think I'd want to hold on to it, so I'm guessing the latter. It's a neat design... Sort of an exaggerated version of the easy tool's broad, flat design combined with the D bar setup of a captured hollowing system.

Dan, I don't think a fixed pivot would be favorable just because it would limit your attack angle options. I suppose a modified version of the McNaughton tool post could be utilized, but I think it might be cumbersome... At least in the way I envision it.

Cool discussion...


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