# Wood ID



## tiggu (Sep 17, 2018)

Can someone please tell me what type of wood this is? The lower corner shows what it looked like before I started planing it. I sprayed a bit of water on the small part right above the black area. 

Thank you.


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## Tony (Sep 17, 2018)

Chris, before anyone responds here please read our rules then make an Intro post and tell us a little about yourself and your woodworking. Thanks, Tony


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## tiggu (Sep 17, 2018)

Sorry. I made an Intro post just after posting this.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Tony (Sep 17, 2018)

Chris, @phinds will ask you to take a close up of a finely sanded area, will make things much easier.

Reactions: Like 1


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## phinds (Sep 17, 2018)

Welcome to the forum, Chris. As Tony said, we like to see closeup pics of fine-sanded end grain since that's the most reliable way to analysis the wood anatomy. That looks like it's probably a softwood, which means the end grain shot likely won't be as much help as it might be. See my wood ID site (link in my signature) for examples of the kind of end grain shots I'm talking about (I do NOT expect you to go to the lengths I do, but something in that direction would be good).

Reactions: Like 1


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## tiggu (Sep 17, 2018)

Would this work?


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## Mr. Peet (Sep 17, 2018)

The dark specks look like resin canals...the undulating rings hint bear claw possibility. If it is a softwood, Sitka spruce is my wild guess. Need more information.

Density, smell, taste, janka, grown where and so on...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## tiggu (Sep 17, 2018)

Mr. Peet said:


> The dark specks look like resin canals...the undulating rings hint bear claw possibility. If it is a softwood, Sitka spruce is my wild guess. Need more information.
> 
> Density, smell, taste, janka, grown where and so on...


Hm... I think it's local tree (Ventura County), but I got the slices off of Craigslist, so I am not 100% sure. I can sink my nail into it a bit. Taste?


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## Mike1950 (Sep 17, 2018)

Redwood


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## phinds (Sep 17, 2018)

tiggu said:


> Would this work?


Not really. Needs to be sanded down more, but as Mark points out the apparent resin canals and the grain spikes are indicative of sitka spruce (but other woods as well) although spruce is more prone to the "normal" (somewhat rectangular) spikes rather than the "V" shaped spikes like in yours. Those are more likely in hardwoods, so again, it would be helpful to have a well-cleaned-up end grain shot.


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## tiggu (Sep 17, 2018)

phinds said:


> Not really. Needs to be sanded down more, but as Mark points out the apparent resin canals and the grain spikes are indicative of sitka spruce (but other woods as well) although spruce is more prone to the "normal" (somewhat rectangular) spikes rather than the "V" shaped spikes like in yours. Those are more likely in hardwoods, so again, it would be helpful to have a well-cleaned-up end grain shot.


Ok. That makes sense. I'll post another picture once I get to that point.


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## tiggu (Sep 24, 2018)

Still sanding ....


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## Mr. Peet (Sep 24, 2018)

Well, we can now see adventitious buds...

Reactions: Like 1


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## phinds (Sep 24, 2018)

tiggu said:


> Still sanding ....


But unfortunately not enough, yet. As Mark pointed out, your side view is helpful in that it clearly shows adventitious buds. @Mr. Peet do you know if that is the reason for the "spiky" type of indented grain? I've always seen it as rays on steroids, not adventitious buds so I'm not sure this mystery wood has indented grain or just adventitious buds (or both since they are the same?)


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## tiggu (Sep 24, 2018)

phinds said:


> But unfortunately not enough, yet. As Mark pointed out, your side view is helpful in that it clearly shows adventitious buds. @Mr. Peet do you know if that is the reason for the "spiky" type of indented grain? I've always seen it as rays on steroids, not adventitious buds so I'm not sure this mystery wood has indented grain or just adventitious buds (or both since they are the same?)


What does that mean? Do only some trees have adventitious buds? Also, when I was finished planing, the wood had a faint eucalyptus smell.


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## phinds (Sep 24, 2018)

tiggu said:


> Do only some trees have adventitious buds?


Adventitious buds are abnormal but can, as far as I know. occur in any species of tree. They likely occur in some species more than others but Mark would know more about that than I do.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mr. Peet (Sep 25, 2018)

phinds said:


> But unfortunately not enough, yet. As Mark pointed out, your side view is helpful in that it clearly shows adventitious buds. @Mr. Peet do you know if that is the reason for the "spiky" type of indented grain? I've always seen it as rays on steroids, not adventitious buds so I'm not sure this mystery wood has indented grain or just adventitious buds (or both since they are the same?)



The buds are a good reason in this wood, for indented grain, but not necessarily for indented grain in other cases.


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## phinds (Sep 25, 2018)

Mr. Peet said:


> The buds are a good reason in this wood, for indented grain, but not necessarily for indented grain in other cases.


So, you are saying that this wood has what looks exactly like indented grain but not because it HAS the spiky form of what is technically called "indented grain" because THAT construct is caused by rays gone nuts. Yes? Or maybe we should just say that since it has the exact appearance of the spiky form of indented grain, it IS indented grain regardless of why it occurs?

For those who find all this discussion of indented grain a bit much, here's some additional information.

"normal" indented grain, as discussed by Bruce Hoadley and others. This is a series of semi-rectangular indentation in the wood grain.




"spiky" indented grain, as discussed in this thread. Although you can't quite tell from this small pic, if you look at the full size one on my site, you'll see that the spikes are just huge rays and they cause an offset in the grain. The spikes in THIS wood (in this thread, not the pic below) do not appear to be rays gone nuts but rather just grain indentations caused by adventitious buds.




@tiggu I think the only way we are going to resolve this is if you sent me a small sample to process in my normal way. Can you do that?

Reactions: Informative 1


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## tiggu (Sep 25, 2018)

phinds said:


> So, you are saying that this wood has what looks exactly like indented grain but not because it HAS the spiky form of what is technically called "indented grain" because THAT construct is caused by rays gone nuts. Yes? Or maybe we should just say that since it has the exact appearance of the spiky form of indented grain, it IS indented grain regardless of why it occurs?
> 
> For those who find all this discussion of indented grain a bit much, here's some additional information.
> 
> ...


Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much!


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## phinds (Sep 25, 2018)

tiggu said:


> Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much!


OK, I'll PM you my address.


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## phinds (Oct 14, 2018)

OK, I got the piece, but I'm having trouble with the ID. I'm pretty sure it's larch or spruce but so far I can't tell which. I'm going to have to leave it for tonight and come back to it. I've sanded it down to 400 grit and looked at it til my eyeballs hurt, along with looking at my own larch and spruce samples and checking Hoadley for clues. If I had a gun to my head I'd say it's probably spruce but absent that degree of urgency, I'd just say it's probably wood.

My eyes through my 10X loupe are getting more information than my camera can capture to show you but it's doing no good because the micro characteristics of the two are VERY similar and I can just barely see the open ends of the tiny tracheods anyway. I'd need a microscope to see them at the level that might distinguish the two and even then I don't know that it would be a sure thing.

I'm looking at the tracheids, rays, and spikes at a level of detail that is finer than where I normally go, and I need to spend more time with it all, so ... g'night all


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## phinds (Oct 14, 2018)

Mike1950 said:


> Redwood


No, it definitely has resin canals so redwood is out.

Reactions: Like 1


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## tiggu (Oct 14, 2018)

phinds said:


> OK, I got the piece, but I'm having trouble with the ID. I'm pretty sure it's larch or spruce but so far I can't tell which. I'm going to have to leave it for tonight and come back to it. I've sanded it down to 400 grit and looked at it til my eyeballs hurt, along with looking at my own larch and spruce samples and checking Hoadley for clues. If I had a gun to my head I'd say it's probably spruce but absent that degree of urgency, I'd just say it's probably wood.
> 
> My eyes through my 10X loupe are getting more information than my camera can capture to show you but it's doing no good because the micro characteristics of the two are VERY similar and I can just barely see the open ends of the tiny tracheods anyway. I'd need a microscope to see them at the level that might distinguish the two and even then I don't know that it would be a sure thing.
> 
> I'm looking at the tracheids, rays, and spikes at a level of detail that is finer than where I normally go, and I need to spend more time with it all, so ... g'night all


Thank you!!!! You are incredible.


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## phinds (Oct 16, 2018)

Well, I've come back to it but am no closer to an ID. I AM more confident that it is either larch or spruce but I've gone back and forth about which of them it might be. I'm going to have to hold on to it until the next time Mark (@Mr. Peet ) is over and see what he thinks. Sorry about that Chris.

I did notice one thing, which is that the spikes in the "spiky" indented grain have regular rays running along their surface at about the same density as the rest of the wood, so I'm pretty confident that this is NOT the "rays on steroids" type of spike but rather adventitious buds. Unfortunately, that doesn't help with the ID as far as I know.

One other thing that is somewhat bothersome is that the density of the resin canals is WAY higher than I'm accustomed to seeing in either larch or spruce (and suggests a Pinus spp.), and this is true over the entire suface (about 3" x 5"). Anyway, here's one of the macro shots and then some end grain micro pics at 12X

As I mentioned in the previous post, my eyeballs can see more via the 10X loupe than shows up in the pics but it hasn't helped with the ID.

@Mr. Peet do you think this could be a Pinus?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mr. Peet (Oct 16, 2018)

@phinds 
Check it against Jeffery Pine, _P. jeffreyi_, closely related to Ponderosa pine.


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## phinds (Oct 16, 2018)

Mr. Peet said:


> @phinds
> Check it against Jeffery Pine, _P. jeffreyi_, closely related to Ponderosa pine.


Good call. Lot of similarity there so that could be it. Same wide-spread heavy density of resin canals. One of the reasons I didn't take pine too seriously is that Pinus generally has larger resin canals than this mystery wood but P. jeffreyi does have similar sized canals.


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## tiggu (Oct 26, 2018)

Are the black marks on the outer part of the wood slice due to the density of the resin canals you mentioned? They don’t disappear when I sand and get more pronounced when I apply the finish. Is there anything I could do to even out the wood tones of that outer rim?


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## phinds (Oct 26, 2018)

That's mineral stain (or possibly blue stain), has nothing to do with the resin canals, and it will not every go away and yeah, finishes make it even uglier.

EDIT: since it's only in the sapwood, I'd say it's blue stain, not that that really makes any difference.


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## tiggu (Oct 26, 2018)

Thanks.


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## Mr. Peet (Oct 26, 2018)

Agree, blue stain. You can try using a tiny brush and painting bleach on it, but that could raise issues with finish later.


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