# How to get curly maple to darken?



## TRfromMT (Jul 12, 2016)

Need advice....
I make knife handles out of stabilized curly maple. I usually do several coats of Tru Oil, shish gets the ripples to show up nicely, nut is still a very light/natural finish. The knife handle is one of mine. I have someone who has requested a darker, more toasty brown. He sent the picture of the rifle stock as an example of what he wants.

Do I need to search for the right piece of wood, or is there a finish that will achieve this more strongly pronounced ripple?

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## rocky1 (Jul 12, 2016)

Stain, allow to dry, wipe with mineral spirits.

The more dense streaks where the ripples are will give up the stain fairly easily when wiped with mineral spirits while softer woods will be penetrated more deeply and hold the color a little better. After that apply your finish of choice. Tru oil will work over it, polyurethane, whatever.


If you don't like the finish, paint remover will take it all off, and give you your original blank back.

Reactions: Way Cool 1 | +Karma 1


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## TRfromMT (Jul 12, 2016)

Awesome! I will try that.


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## rocky1 (Jul 12, 2016)

Not going to guarantee it'll look like that gun stock, not going to guarantee it'll even be real prominent, all of that is largely dependent upon the stock and the stain used. Have seen and achieved that to a reasonable extent on a maple gunstock before without really trying, using that method however.


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## TRfromMT (Jul 12, 2016)

Disclaimer noted. I have some scraps and I am going to try it out. I have my doubts that it will work as well on stabilized material, which is all uniform density (supposedly), but I intend to find out.

Thanks again!


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## rocky1 (Jul 12, 2016)

I would attempt it before stabilizing. The effect relies upon the differences in density in the wood grain, and stabilization is going to seal the softer pores.


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## Foot Patrol (Jul 12, 2016)

Tony not to hijack your thread but where did you get the bolts on your knife. Really nice. Are they corby type?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TRfromMT (Jul 12, 2016)

They came with the knife. I only replace the scales. It's a Survive! Knives GSO model.

Look for pivot bolts or "chain ring" bolts at usaknifemaker.com to find something close (straight slot head, not torx). I've never found those specifically.


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## Tony (Jul 12, 2016)

Tony, I think Rocky is spot on. I do believe it needs to be done before you stabilize it, I don't believe it will take stain after. Tony


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## Sprung (Jul 12, 2016)

A couple thoughts I had were: 1. To use a little brown dye during the stabilizing process to darken it. 2. Start with a piece of the heartwood that is curly, since it's already darker, stabilize it, and then apply a coat or two of BLO or a brown alcohol based dye dye before your finish.

I do not have any pictures, but I was able to darken curly maple that had been stabilized with some BLO. Likewise, I've also used these alcohol based dyes successfully on stabilized wood and then applied a finish over them. Picture gives an example. I used stabilized Boxelder Burl for these, then some green dye from the link, then a CA finish.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## robert flynt (Jul 12, 2016)

Try chromic trioxide it will most likely work. Some scorch the wood with a torch, kerosene lantern, to get the lines to pop. R.W. Wilson sell the chemical and he call it "majestic maple". Be sure to avoid contact with your skin. Good luck! Very attractive knife by the way.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TRfromMT (Jul 12, 2016)

Thanks, Robert. I'll look it up. 

I'd be a bit uncomfortable putting a torch to a set of finished grips! Yikes!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Schroedc (Jul 12, 2016)

If you're doing your own stabilizing I'd dye them while stabilizing if possible.


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## TRfromMT (Jul 12, 2016)

I don't do my own. I will post pics of my sample pieces trying to stain the stabilized maple.


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## TRfromMT (Jul 12, 2016)

Very little difference with stain on the right side (walnut, dainish oil, dried a couple hours, then wiped off with mineral spirits).



If I put the tru oil on top of that, I don't think you would tell any difference. Stabilizing has it's pluses and minuses...


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## DKMD (Jul 12, 2016)

robert flynt said:


> Try chromic trioxide...



I looked into this several years ago when I saw some curly maple pens that looked like curly koa... The MSDS sheet scared me away from using any. It's a beautiful look, but it seems like a potentially nasty chemical.


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## robert flynt (Jul 12, 2016)

TRfromMT said:


> Thanks, Robert. I'll look it up.
> 
> I'd be a bit uncomfortable putting a torch to a set of finished grips! Yikes!


Would definitely go with the chromic trioxide it should surface color it nicely.


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## robert flynt (Jul 12, 2016)

DKMD said:


> I looked into this several years ago when I saw some curly maple pens that looked like curly koa... The MSDS sheet scared me away from using any. It's a beautiful look, but it seems like a potentially nasty chemical.


Kinda like reading the side effects of the medicine you prescribe huh doc. Just have use gloves when you apply it.

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## Wildthings (Jul 12, 2016)

Stain it with calligraphy ink (or leather dye)then sand it down. Rinse and repeat til desired darkness. Youtube is your friend.

Tiger maple <----- click

Reactions: Like 1


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## TRfromMT (Jul 12, 2016)

Anyone know for sure if the chromic trioxide / Majestic Maple stuff works on stabilized maple?


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## HomeBody (Jul 13, 2016)

You need to get a chemical called potassium permanganate. That's what gunstock makers use to color curly maple like the rifle you posted. I can send you some if you want, I have plenty. Mix granular PP with water to get a deep purple color. When it hits wood or antler it turns a rich brown. Make sure you wear rubber gloves or your hands will be brown for months. Gary

edit: You can also find PP at your local water treatment plant if you happen to know someone who works there. It's used there in quantity for some reason.


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## TRfromMT (Jul 13, 2016)

Homebody,
PM coming...
Thanks.
TR


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## robert flynt (Jul 13, 2016)

HomeBody said:


> You need to get a chemical called potassium permanganate. That's what gunstock makers use to color curly maple like the rifle you posted. I can send you some if you want, I have plenty. Mix granular PP with water to get a deep purple color. When it hits wood or antler it turns a rich brown. Make sure you wear rubber gloves or your hands will be brown for months. Gary
> 
> edit: You can also find PP at your local water treatment plant if you happen to know someone who works there. It's used there in quantity for some reason.


That also works on antler, not sure if you have to boil them in it or not.


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## rocky1 (Jul 13, 2016)

Homebody said:


> edit: You can also find PP at your local water treatment plant if you happen to know someone who works there. It's used there in quantity for some reason.




Potassium Permanganate is an oxidant used in some filtration systems. It causes Iron, Manganese, and Hydrogen Sulfide to flock together, creating a larger particle for removal in the filtration bed. As best I recall, it's used with Green Sand Filters, but even there, I believe raw water quality has a bearing on it's necessity in the treatment process. If the Iron and Manganese particles are large enough, they may not need Potassium Permanganate to filter, or pre-chlorination can be used if you're not battling Hydrogen Sulfide in the raw water too.

A great many home water filtration systems use it as well; it's a little safer to play with than chlorine.

Typically Potassium Permanganate will give the water a faint pink hue when used in water treatment.

Pool Supply stores frequently carry it to. Sometimes used to combat bacteria and algae in swimming pools.

Also available in small quantities on Amazon.

Being an Oxidant it will be somewhat caustic, be sure to read the MSDS sheet. If you don't get one with it, look it up on line. Gloves would be good, eye contact is definitely an issue, I don't recall it being an inhalation hazard, but I'd ventilate regardless. And, obviously you don't want to drink it straight from the bottle either.

No... you shouldn't have to boil the antlers in it Robert. But, that may give you a deeper richer color.


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## TRfromMT (Jul 13, 2016)

All good info. Thanks guys.


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## Wildthings (Jul 13, 2016)

rocky1 said:


> Also available in small quantities on Amazon.
> 
> No... you shouldn't have to boil the antlers in it Robert. But, that may give you a deeper richer color.



Also available from taxidermy supply companies - i.e. Van Dykes, Research Manikin's, McKenzie's


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## Don Ratcliff (Jul 14, 2016)

You could use koa and pretend it is maple. That's what I do...

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2


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## HomeBody (Jul 14, 2016)

TRfromMT said:


> All good info. Thanks guys.



I've got your PP boxed up. It will go out today. Mix about 1/2 teaspoon in a cup of water. Add more PP if you want it darker. Again, wear gloves or your hands will be stained brown for months. The stuff don't wash off. Gary


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## JohnF (Jul 14, 2016)

Just a thought, but wouldn't green walnut husks turn that wood brown? I know they turn my hands brown for weeks when I handle them.

Reactions: Like 2


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## DKMD (Jul 14, 2016)

Don Ratcliff said:


> You could use koa and pretend it is maple. That's what I do...



@Kevin... Don't you think it's time for the 'U Suck!' rating?

Reactions: Agree 5 | Funny 3


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## Don Ratcliff (Jul 14, 2016)

DKMD said:


> @Kevin... Don't you think it's time for the 'U Suck!' rating?


Nope, we needs the "I'm a jealous little whiny girl" icon. Here's your sign...

Reactions: Great Post 1 | Funny 2


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## Kevin (Jul 14, 2016)

Don Ratcliff said:


> Nope, we needs the "I'm a jealous little whiny girl" icon. Here's your sign...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Great Post 2


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## Don Ratcliff (Jul 14, 2016)

Kevin said:


>


That's poor taste Kevin, poor taste indeed... bad Kevin...bad... (let the guilt sink in, feel the burn...)

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Kevin (Jul 14, 2016)

Don Ratcliff said:


> That's poor taste Kevin, poor taste indeed... bad Kevin...bad... (let the guilt sink in, feel the burn...)



(hmmmmm)








 (has idea!)






(Yo Don Ho come hither) 







(a little closer. yeah stand right there.....)

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 3


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## Don Ratcliff (Jul 14, 2016)

Kevin said:


> (hmmmmm)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 ...


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## Kevin (Jul 14, 2016)

Don Ratcliff said:


> ...

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## robert flynt (Jul 14, 2016)

JohnF said:


> Just a thought, but wouldn't green walnut husks turn that wood brown? I know they turn my hands brown for weeks when I handle them.


Heard they can be used to stun fish but don't know nothing about that!!


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## robert flynt (Jul 14, 2016)

You have to watch to watch out for our resident Leprechaun, he has a lot of larceny in him!!!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TRfromMT (Jul 16, 2016)

Back on track here...

Major thanks to @HomeBody - sent me a small amount of the permanganate, based on the batch I mixed up, it will last me about 2 lifetimes. Thanks Gary!

The following sequence shows the untreated (professionally stabilized by K&G) curly maple. #2 is just after a dunk (maybe 30-45 seconds, then wipe off) in the solution I mixed up. #3 is a quick steel wool polish and a single coat of Tru Oil. #4 is a repeat dunk/polish/Tru Oil.

This seems to do just the trick. I like the end result.

The last photo is courtesy of RW Wilson. They told me this is a professionally stabilized curly maple handle with their Majestic Maple stain. It does have an effect and it does make the wood darker. I have not details on how long they left the product on, or anything. Just passing along a photo that they freely sent to me when I asked about their product on stabilized curly maple. It is for your reference, no claim for or knock against their product. For comparison only.

Reactions: Like 3 | EyeCandy! 1


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## Don Ratcliff (Jul 16, 2016)

Sorry for derailing your post... I'm stoopid... shut up kevin.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## TRfromMT (Jul 16, 2016)

Derail away. I actually read all those posts. I am trying to learn the language... me no talk emoji guud.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## TRfromMT (Jul 16, 2016)

Here are the same grips from the first post. I buffed them down with 220 and 400 grit sandpaper, then steel wool. They had 4 coats of Tru Oil, so they were pretty well finished. I then soaked them in the potassium permanganate solution, and they have darkened to a nice, rich amber color. These had to soak longer than the sample I did, maybe 15 minutes. I then buffed them with 0000 steel wool (I was concerned because they came out uniformly brown...), and coated with Tru Oil.

Success.

Reactions: Like 6 | EyeCandy! 2 | Way Cool 1


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## Wildthings (Jul 16, 2016)

Those came out nice!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## TRfromMT (Jul 19, 2016)

So one last post here... the potassium permanganate even works on stuff that has been previously dyed and stabilized. I bought this material as a block and cut it into slabs for knife handles, and was a little surprised at how bright green it was (I was billing these as "camo" scales, so they were too green, IMO).

I made the handles out of the "B" set of scales, and the green was really too strong. I then applied the PP mix to the "A" scales and liked the result, so applied it to the finish-sanded handles. It darkens the browns just enough and tones down the green. I am super pleased with the results.

Reactions: Like 4 | EyeCandy! 3 | Way Cool 2


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## rocky1 (Jul 19, 2016)

I'd be pleased too, that's a way cool set of scales!


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## TRfromMT (Jul 19, 2016)

Thanks rocky1


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## Charles Neil (Jul 20, 2016)

keep it simple, use a dye, thats what the gun stock looks like to me, I would think some water base dye would do excellent, try light brown by General Finishes, and remember you can dilute it, with some water.


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## DaveHawk (Jul 20, 2016)

I've built flint locks from curly and made the curl stand out. You want to use a anodized dies. 1st the finish needs to be as smooth as you can possibly get it. I used damp rags and hair dryer and sanding with 320. 5-8 times to get the grain hair gone. 
Apply the med to dark walnut to the wood and use alcohol to wipe down the apply a very light yellowish tone dye. This will set into the harder grain opened up by the alcohol. 
But always use a test piece 1st.

Reactions: Like 1


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## pinky (Jul 28, 2016)

+1 on dyes, maple doesn't stain well but dyes do lay out nicely.


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## larry C (Sep 3, 2016)

PP can also be used for a cure for athlete's foot! Just in case any of you guys have stinky feet!


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