# Birdseye maple



## d242 (May 29, 2020)

Is this birdseye maple? That's what the logger told me. I havent seen them in person but he sent me some pictures. Any advice on purchasing something like this?

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## d242 (May 29, 2020)

Only end grain picture

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## Mr. Peet (May 30, 2020)

Looked like included bark pockets to me, not bird's eye.

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## sprucegum (Jun 5, 2020)

Doesn't look like Birdseye logs I have seen. It does look to be figured wood and may be really pretty. It might be worth a look if he's not asking stupid money.


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Jun 5, 2020)

I have some oak what I heard called "pippy" oak. Looks like that. From what I understand it's adventitous buds that never grow out. @phinds or @Mr. Peet would know more than me.


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## Mr. Peet (Jun 5, 2020)

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> I have some oak what I heard called "pippy" oak. Looks like that. From what I understand it's adventitous buds that never grow out. @phinds or @Mr. Peet would know more than me.



You may have "pippy" grained oak, but still looks like bark inclusions. Adventitous buds are usually seen as bumps, round bumps and some times round swirls. The very first picture shows ovals. This is common when there is an insect infestation. Certain "critters" feed on the sap of the tree. The cambium dies at the feeding site and from xylem and phloem action, the death front moves further up and down than sideways. The bark over the dead cambium stays intact. The living cambium continues to to grow and with the outer diameter growth, the dead spots become engulfed and swallowed up over time. I'm sure there could be some interesting grain, but would not say it is valued at a 'bird's eye' equivalent in any way.

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## FranklinWorkshops (Jun 5, 2020)

Buying logs in the rough like that is akin to buying the proverbial pig in a poke. You never know if what you see under the bark goes deep enough to be representative. I've seen logs showing lots of ripples, just knowing it was a great tiger maple log, only to find it was only about three inches deep and then all straight grain. That's why I only bought sawn lumber over the years.

I should also add that, on occasion, I've bought logs (especially walnut) at the sawmill to have cut to my specifications, expecting that they were normal straight grain lumber. Then some of them turned out to be curly. So you never know until you see the lumber. And some curly wood is not obvious until you plane the boards since the rough saw surface obscures it.

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## d242 (Jun 11, 2020)

sprucegum said:


> Doesn't look like Birdseye logs I have seen. It does look to be figured wood and may be really pretty. It might be worth a look if he's not asking stupid money.


is $1 a foot a good price? i assume he meant board foot...


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## sprucegum (Jun 11, 2020)

d242 said:


> is $1 a foot a good price? i assume he meant board foot...


That is pretty high if it is still in the log that is $1000/mbf which is about the price of #1 veneer logs. If it were for sure true heavily birds eye that would probably be a bargain. Unless that log is a lot bigger than it looks it is barely big enough to be a log. Common HW saw logs around here were bringing around $350/mbf or $.35/bdft with the China virus going on you cant even give them away now.

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## FranklinWorkshops (Jun 11, 2020)

d242 said:


> is $1 a foot a good price? i assume he meant board foot...


In the log, that's not a terrible price if it is figured wood. Also, make sure he measures from the small diameter end. Then you will have a year or two for air-drying and maple is a slow air-drier. Then possibly kiln-drying. All these steps is why good maple sells for $5 - 7 per milled BF.

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## sprucegum (Jun 11, 2020)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> In the log, that's not a terrible price if it is figured wood. Also, make sure he measures from the small diameter end. Then you will have a year or two for air-drying and maple is a slow air-drier. Then possibly kiln-drying. All these steps is why good maple sells for $5 - 7 per milled BF.



Any lumber that I ever dried whether air or kiln dried I always get some drying loss from warping, and cracking. Another reason the best costs a lot.

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## FranklinWorkshops (Jun 11, 2020)

sprucegum said:


> Any lumber that I ever dried whether air or kiln dried I always get some drying loss from warping, and cracking. Another reason the best costs a lot.


Dave, what do you feel about air-drying figured maple? I've not tried that except as a pre-cursor to kiln drying. Do you see a lot of sticker stain on it?


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## d242 (Jun 11, 2020)

sprucegum said:


> That is pretty high if it is still in the log that is $1000/mbf which is about the price of #1 veneer logs. If it were for sure true heavily birds eye that would probably be a bargain. Unless that log is a lot bigger than it looks it is barely big enough to be a log. Common HW saw logs around here were bringing around $350/mbf or $.35/bdft with the China virus going on you cant even give them away now.


Thanks for the info He said around 20 inches wide. I thought it was rather high for not knowing whats inside. he has some other burls that he already priced out fair for me so i will go and see what happens. He actually said for those maple logs " My log buyer has a buyer out in Ohio but I will be done with this job before they can come get them" which kinda seems like its not true since his house is only 10 minutes from the job and he could easily store them there.

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## sprucegum (Jun 11, 2020)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> Dave, what do you feel about air-drying figured maple? I've not tried that except as a pre-cursor to kiln drying. Do you see a lot of sticker stain on it?



Maple really likes to sticker stain. I think winter cut is best, less sap. One trick that works really well is to take the pile apart and repile with the stickers in a different spot after a couple weeks of good drying weather. The outside of the wood will be pretty dry so it won't stain and the original sticker location has not had time to stain. The whole forestry industry is dead around here. my son has wood lots to harvest and a couple million dollars worth of logging equipment sitting idle. Fortunately he usually cuts back on forestry in the summer and does more excavation. Be a long winter if things don't change.

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## sprucegum (Jun 11, 2020)

d242 said:


> Thanks for the info He said around 20 inches wide. I thought it was rather high for not knowing whats inside. he has some other burls that he already priced out fair for me so i will go and see what happens. He actually said for those maple logs " My log buyer has a buyer out in Ohio but I will be done with this job before they can come get them" which kinda seems like its not true since his house is only 10 minutes from the job and he could easily store them there.


20 inches is a good log assuming that is the small end.


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## rob3232 (Jun 11, 2020)

Agree with all said above. Also, Maple needs to be dried fast. The kiln drying schedule is rather umm quick. (Bad choice of words) So what I would do is seal ends and set a fan up to blow across the boards when stickered for at least a couple of weeks. As Dave said moving sticks will minimize stain but now most mills use fluted sticks like this on White woods.

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## Mr. Peet (Jun 11, 2020)

d242 said:


> Thanks for the info He said around 20 inches wide. I thought it was rather high for not knowing whats inside. he has some other burls that he already priced out fair for me so i will go and see what happens. He actually said for those maple logs " My log buyer has a buyer out in Ohio but I will be done with this job before they can come get them" which kinda seems like its not true since his house is only 10 minutes from the job and he could easily store them there.



They are already cut, he can't store them very long because they will start staining, and lose value on the standard market. And as Dave said, is pretty dead in the NE USA. Just look at the latest Timber Market Report, 1990 prices are not going to move many. Firewood is luckily holding price and if the logging trend stays low, may even jump some. Or if like 1999, loggers flood the firewood market because lumber dropped. Double edge sword. 

You have the power, I'd offer 0.35 cents bdft. at most with a promise if truly figured, to match his original at $1 bdft.


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## sprucegum (Jun 12, 2020)

I look for firewood price to hold up. It won't go sky high as long as oil is cheap but it's largely a by product of a timber harvest , a way to market limb wood and low quality trees. Smart land owners will be hesitant to allow a firewood harvest on land that has quality timber growing as it is nearly impossible to pick a tree here and there without damaging or cutting a few good trees that there is no market for. Generally time is on your side if you own well managed woodland. Usually putting off a timber harvest a few years makes little difference in the quality but it can make a huge difference in value.

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## FranklinWorkshops (Jun 12, 2020)

I've not seen any lower hardwood lumber prices around here so someone has increased their profit margins. Luckily, I live near a very large family-owned orchard of apple, peach, cherry and pear trees. They are always replacing old trees and trimming the rest so I can get a pickup load of firewood from them for $65.00. Of course, I have to go get it but they do help load it. Great firewood.

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## Eric Rorabaugh (Jun 12, 2020)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> orchard of apple, peach, cherry and pear trees


Great smoking woods!!!

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## Mr. Peet (Jun 12, 2020)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> I've not seen any lower hardwood lumber prices around here so someone has increased their profit margins. Luckily, I live near a very large family-owned orchard of apple, peach, cherry and pear trees. They are always replacing old trees and trimming the rest so I can get a pickup load of firewood from them for $65.00. Of course, I have to go get it but they do help load it. Great firewood.



That is a decent price for good wood.

Last fall, the average here was $200-$225 a cord, delivered (usually a ten mile radius). Some were charging for delivery. Most advertise as seasoned wood, most are lying. They tend to prey on city folks and old folks. I try to be forthright and tell them species, average moisture content and time seasoned. I charge less since I feel the others are price gouging. Takes me a 5-6 hour day to cut and split a cord (with clean wood). The one guy's processor does a cord every 11 minutes. Equipment sure makes a difference.

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## FranklinWorkshops (Jun 12, 2020)

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Great smoking woods!!!


I also used some limbs to make suet feeders for the local woodpeckers. They love it.

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## sprucegum (Jun 12, 2020)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> I've not seen any lower hardwood lumber prices around here so someone has increased their profit margins. Luckily, I live near a very large family-owned orchard of apple, peach, cherry and pear trees. They are always replacing old trees and trimming the rest so I can get a pickup load of firewood from them for $65.00. Of course, I have to go get it but they do help load it. Great firewood.



Our main market for HW is mills in PQ Canada and China the, China bound wood goes through the Port Of Montreal. The border remains closed, the Chinese wood could go south but trucking is more and I think the whole trade war thing may be a problem also. When the border is open trucking to Quebec is cheap because we import peat moss, lumber, Christmas trees, and lots of other stuff from Canada the logs are a back haul. We have Ethan Allen Furniture and Columbia HW pretty local but they are not buying much and they are only looking for the high grade stuff. I don't know that the price is extremely low here but no one is buying much. If you want to sell a load you have to call around to find a market before you cut it and then they may only buy one or two loads. Mills were buying hot and heavy all winter so when the Chinese virus hit the yards were full.


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## FranklinWorkshops (Jun 12, 2020)

Speaking of exporting logs to China, I was surprised to see in New Zealand last year the loading docks for the transport ships to take these logs to China. It is a particular variety of pine which grows well in New Zealand and is used for construction. Many of their steep hillsides are planted in these trees and they harvest them every 27 years. 
These pictures are just a small sample of what we saw at several ports of call.

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## Mr. Peet (Jun 12, 2020)

FranklinWorkshops said:


> Speaking of exporting logs to China, I was surprised to see in New Zealand last year the loading docks for the transport ships to take these logs to China. It is a particular variety of pine which grows well in New Zealand and is used for construction. Many of their steep hillsides are planted in these trees and they harvest them every 27 years.
> These pictures are just a small sample of what we saw at several ports of call.
> 
> View attachment 188661
> ...



I assume Radiata pine...west coast US native that does squat here but excels there.

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## vegas urban lumber (Sep 27, 2020)

Mr. Peet said:


> They are already cut, he can't store them very long because they will start staining, and lose value on the standard market. And as Dave said, is pretty dead in the NE USA. Just look at the latest Timber Market Report, 1990 prices are not going to move many. Firewood is luckily holding price and if the logging trend stays low, may even jump some. Or if like 1999, loggers flood the firewood market because lumber dropped. Double edge sword.
> 
> You have the power, I'd offer 0.35 cents bdft. at most with a promise if truly figured, to match his original at $1 bdft.


oh how we wish prices on lumber had stayed down


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## Mr. Peet (Sep 28, 2020)

vegas urban lumber said:


> oh how we wish prices on lumber had stayed down



Still low on the east coast, only manufactured wood has gone sky high, treated lumber and ply-woods.


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## sprucegum (Sep 28, 2020)

Mr. Peet said:


> Still low on the east coast, only manufactured wood has gone sky high, treated lumber and ply-woods.


Well in our little corner of New England a 16' 2 x 6 is fetching close to a $20 bill. I have been whittling away at a 10 wheeler load of spruce and fir to meet the needs of friends and family. Slow going with my manual mill but definitely cost effective. Sent some blades to be sharpened and was told to expect a longer than normal wait time on those. I have 8 Sharp ones left so unless I start hitting a lot of nails I should be good. Betting by next year at this time the price will have crashed . I sure wouldn't be doing unnecessary building now after boom comes bust.

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## vegas urban lumber (Sep 28, 2020)

2x4's are up 3 fold out here. all engineered goods have at least doubled

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## Mr. Peet (Sep 28, 2020)

vegas urban lumber said:


> 2x4's are up 3 fold out here. all engineered goods have at least doubled



Same here. I had not ordered anything since the first week in August. It was just the plywoods and treated wood then, now it looks to be everything. On the flip side, stumpage and log prices are still low. Hear a small spike starting in black birch and red oak has risen a bit.


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## sprucegum (Sep 28, 2020)

softwood sawlog prices and demand is good here although not crazy high. Mills in the northeast had very little disruption in production but they stopped buying logs at the start of the pandemic, as soon as they realized what was happening with demand they resumed buying. The big bugaboo for us is the low demand for paper products thus low demand for pulpwood. Everyone is doing everything possible online and I guess toilet paper will not support the papermills.


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