# Question Of The Week... (2022 week 8)



## ripjack13 (Feb 20, 2022)

*Are there any tool brands that are not allowed in your shop? And if so, what are they and why?*








**Rules**
There is no minimum post requirement,
primates, woodticks, wood spinners, and leprechauns are welcome to post an answer.
And of course the  and the doc too....
If life were predictable it would cease to be life, and be without flavor.


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## 2feathers Creative Making (Feb 20, 2022)

So far I haven't blocked brands. I do look for thing made in the US if possible but if those aren't available, the next is Germany. China goes last because they will produce to anyone's specs including trash specs even if the brand used to be an awesome American product like Milwaukee or delta

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## woodtickgreg (Feb 20, 2022)

No I dont really have any banned brands, well maybe? Theres good and bad tools in any brand imo. I dont have any harbor freight cordless tools though, just never tried any. If I go for cheap cordless I usually go for Ryobi, it's really come a long way over the years. I dont think I would ever buy a Wen tool though, very cheaply made stuff, but again jmo. Ok, I just came up with one, Delta. It has become a garbage tool company with no customer service. If you buy anything Delta just consider it disposable. It used to be the go to brand for machinery, not anymore since they sold the name to a Chinese company. Now I'm not against Chinese anything, they have good and bad products just like any other country that manufactures things. It's the cheap garbage that has given them a bad reputation that is not deserving of all products from China. Again, jmo.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mike1950 (Feb 20, 2022)

got rid of my delta tools- no customer support. Feel same way about Laguna. will not buy harbor freight. When in biz my rule was if I was going to need it 3 or more times I bought instead of rented. I found some harbor freight tools did not last for 3 days construction work..

Reactions: Like 4


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## Tony (Feb 20, 2022)

I have horrible luck with Grizzly, I've vowed not to ever get any more.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1 | Sincere 1 | Useful 1


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## Mike1950 (Feb 20, 2022)

Tony said:


> I have horrible luck with Grizzly, I've vowed not to ever get any more.


I have 3 grizzly bandsaws and use the crap out of them. Guide bearings and tires are the wear parts. My oldest 2004 I had to put $45 into rebuilding gears that adjust the blade guard and about the same on gears that operate the angle of the table. That happened because of user error- it was locked and I just cranked anyhow. Original belts are on 2004. 19" 2010 is my workhorse -tires and guide bearings. I bought the electric up and down 19" in 2020. it functions perfectly. all are worth more than I paid. when I have called customer service they are knowledgeable and send out parts fast. had a 24" planer for a while- It was great also. I have no reason to say anything bad about grizzly. also own jet TS, belt and disk sander. and 16/32 sander-no complaints. PM 1978 8" jointer and newer 20" PM planer- no complaints. Only 4 of those tools were new. 
I think if you get a lemon it sours you but most tools are trouble free, at least mine are and mine get purchased to work..

Reactions: Like 5


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## William Tanner (Feb 20, 2022)

I’ll be clear, I hate Delta tools and yes, it is personal. I would like to meet Mr. Delta.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## DLJeffs (Feb 20, 2022)

I don't let whiners and complainers in my shop (I don't really have a shop, it's just a garage but I call it my shop). And there's this one guy who wants help but doesn't lift a finger to help, he's a tool....

oh, wait..... you said tool "brand" .....

nevermind.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 7


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## trc65 (Feb 20, 2022)

Masterforce tools from Menards. Doesn't matter if mechanics tools or power tools, the quality is worse than anything from harbor freight. Tolerances are terrible and you feel like you've won the jackpot if half the sockets actually fit the sizes listed. 

Unfortunately, around here Menards and Lowe's are the only choices and Menards is cheaper. Too many people buy these great big sets full of crap and then ask me to help them with a project.

My mechanics tools are vintage Craftsman that are ~40 years old. Haven't tried any of the next generation Craftsman...

Won't buy anything with a tail (or battery) from HF, but do have a bunch of their "F" clamps that I use all the time.

Reactions: Like 3 | +Karma 1


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## Tony (Feb 20, 2022)

Mike1950 said:


> I have 3 grizzly bandsaws and use the crap out of them. Guide bearings and tires are the wear parts. My oldest 2004 I had to put $45 into rebuilding gears that adjust the blade guard and about the same on gears that operate the angle of the table. That happened because of user error- it was locked and I just cranked anyhow. Original belts are on 2004. 19" 2010 is my workhorse -tires and guide bearings. I bought the electric up and down 19" in 2020. it functions perfectly. all are worth more than I paid. when I have called customer service they are knowledgeable and send out parts fast. had a 24" planer for a while- It was great also. I have no reason to say anything bad about grizzly. also own jet TS, belt and disk sander. and 16/32 sander-no complaints. PM 1978 8" jointer and newer 20" PM planer- no complaints. Only 4 of those tools were new.
> I think if you get a lemon it sours you but most tools are trouble free, at least mine are and mine get purchased to work..


To be fair, I've never owned a new Grizzly tool and also, I am FAR from being the sharpest knife in the drawer...

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Mike1950 (Feb 20, 2022)

Tony said:


> To be fair, I've never owned a new Grizzly tool and also, I am FAR from being the sharpest knife in the drawer...


I do not know about sharpest but shortest I would agree on. 
Most of my tools are used. TS was new but a demo. And biz was closing. Planer ding and dent. 16/32 was in 2010. It was 600. Most expensive besides big bandsaw is my router table set up. We were building kitchen cabinets and they had set up I wanted but yikes. The big bit was $200. While I was thinking about Kathie borrowed my truck and went and bought it.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1


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## Mike1950 (Feb 20, 2022)

And new bandsaw was expensive. But I need the 19" resaw. Electric up and down guard is nice also. My shoulder does not like spinning levers above my head. A power matic resaws 19 but a lot more money. No electric guard. Sure are pretty though. This griz is 800 lbs. Glad I bought then. They are $1000 more now...

Reactions: Like 2


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## sprucegum (Feb 20, 2022)

Black and Decker

Reactions: Agree 1


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## 2feathers Creative Making (Feb 20, 2022)

sprucegum said:


> Black and Decker


I actually have 2 black and decker circular saws in my work truck. They are for cutting asphalt shingles. Got them for 2 bucks each. These are no harm no foul if they get gobbed up or screwed up.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Sprung (Feb 20, 2022)

I can't say that there are any brands that are completely banned in my shop.

For example, I refuse to buy anything Delta. But that only applies to overseas made Delta. I have a few vintage American made Delta machines (ranging from built in 1946 to 1983) that are workhorses in my shop. Delta's modern stuff doesn't have a good reputation and we've all heard numerous accounts of replacement parts being unobtanium.

I don't do Harbor Freight power tools of any kind. Yet I happen to have also purchased a HF angle grinder within the last couple years. For how seldom I have need to use an angle grinder, owning a HF one makes sense. If I every use it enough to kill it, then I'll get something better. For tools that are used infrequently, sometimes the cheap or low end brand fits in. And I've been very happy with some of my Harbor Freight hand tools.

I will echo Tim's remarks on Menards' Masterforce brand. My experience with the Masterforce tools I've bought has always been regret - often lower quality than Harbor Freight. And that is an often low benchmark. So, Masterforce is probably about the only brand that I refuse to buy any more of their tools and have a couple left that I need to replace with something better.

I could say Hitachi. (Though they no longer exist. They're Metabo now.) I had a compound miter saw from them that I hated. Could never, no matter how much I tried, get it dialed in. I still used it, but only for rough work. But when I bought it, it had a mail in rebate for a free random orbital sander that they shipped to you after you sent in the form. That sander has been a workhorse in my shop. After more than 10 years of use, the bearings in it went. I tried to replace it. The couple sanders I tried just vibrated too much and were returned. I ended up figuring out how to get that sander apart, figured out what bearings I needed, and replaced them. I've had that sander nearly 15 years now and it's still going strong. I loathe the day that it might ever be done for.

Reactions: Like 5


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## sprucegum (Feb 21, 2022)

2feathers Creative Making said:


> I actually have 2 black and decker circular saws in my work truck. They are for cutting asphalt shingles. Got them for 2 bucks each. These are no harm no foul if they get gobbed up or screwed up.


You paid too much

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


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## Mike1950 (Feb 21, 2022)

Sprung said:


> I can't say that there are any brands that are completely banned in my shop.
> 
> For example, I refuse to buy anything Delta. But that only applies to overseas made Delta. I have a few vintage American made Delta machines (ranging from built in 1946 to 1983) that are workhorses in my shop. Delta's modern stuff doesn't have a good reputation and we've all heard numerous accounts of replacement parts being unobtanium.
> 
> ...


I echo comments on Hitachi. it used to be a great brand. Bought a new truck in 2005 and they gave me $450 gift certificate to Lowes. Bought top of the line Hitachi chop saw. Bearing went out in 1.5 years of hobby use. almost $200 to get fixed. 2 years later -yep same bearing- I got mad and chucked in dumpster.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Arn213 (Feb 21, 2022)

Anything in the US that says “Design or Engineered in America” but manufactured elsewhere that charges $$$$$ like it was manufactured here. Bridge City Tools is one of them. I wouldn’t have a problem with it if their pricing reflected the point of manufacturing origin and was priced accordingly. This idea is abundant with everything and I have seen this happen a lot in the guitar industry. If the guitar is marked and made outside of the US- I have no problem with that, but if an American manufacturer has it made outside of the US and priced like American labor and it has the same price line as an American made guitars, I will balk (but I will check it out regardless to see how the quality is).

Rikon is one of them. I had a 10” jointer/planer combo sit unused, boxed up for years and when I was giving it a go when I finally had a shop set up, the drive chain fell off from underneath and the chain sprockets and associated plates basically fell apart- the one sprocket shown actually the one out of the four that survived, but you can see the cracking in the iron. I reached out to them with photo’s and they were nice enough to send me a replacement. Any machinery with gears or component parts made with hard plastic I stay away from- don’t they know it warps and breaks in a short period of time?

Reactions: Like 3 | Useful 1


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## Mike1950 (Feb 21, 2022)

Arn213 said:


> Anything in the US that says “Design or Engineered in America” but manufactured elsewhere that charges $$$$$ like it was manufactured here. Bridge City Tools is one of them. I wouldn’t have a problem with it if their pricing reflected the point of manufacturing origin and was priced accordingly. This idea is abundant with everything and I have seen this happen a lot in the guitar industry. If the guitar is marked and made outside of the US- I have no problem with that, but if an American manufacturer has it made outside of the US and priced like American labor and it has the same price line as an American made guitars, I will balk (but I will check it out regardless to see how the quality is).
> 
> Rikon is one of them. I had a 10” jointer/planer combo sit unused, boxed up for years and when I was giving it a go when I finally had a shop set up, the drive chain fell off from underneath and the chain sprockets and associated plates basically fell apart- the one sprocket shown actually the one out of the four that survived, but you can see the cracking in the iron. I reached out to them with photo’s and they were nice enough to send me a replacement. Any machinery with gears or component parts made with hard plastic I stay away from- don’t they know it warps and breaks in a short period of time?
> 
> View attachment 223085


Are those plastic?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gdurfey (Feb 21, 2022)

DLJeffs said:


> I don't let whiners and complainers in my shop (I don't really have a shop, it's just a garage but I call it my shop). And there's this one guy who wants help but doesn't lift a finger to help, he's a tool....
> 
> oh, wait..... you said tool "brand" .....
> 
> nevermind.


That’s funny…. Maybe not for you, but that’s funny. The sad is, we can all put a name on that tool…..

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Arn213 (Feb 21, 2022)

Mike1950 said:


> Are those plastic?


No, but made like one- p*o*s* iron. I bought this “for a song” in Charleston, SC when Woodcraft was open- I knew the owner well. I bought it for a fraction of a price. 

One other company is JET- if they manufactured and gave away free parachutes, I would kindly pass.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mike1950 (Feb 21, 2022)

Arn213 said:


> Anything in the US that says “Design or Engineered in America” but manufactured elsewhere that charges $$$$$ like it was manufactured here. Bridge City Tools is one of them. I wouldn’t have a problem with it if their pricing reflected the point of manufacturing origin and was priced accordingly. This idea is abundant with everything and I have seen this happen a lot in the guitar industry. If the guitar is marked and made outside of the US- I have no problem with that, but if an American manufacturer has it made outside of the US and priced like American labor and it has the same price line as an American made guitars, I will balk (but I will check it out regardless to see how the quality is).
> 
> Rikon is one of them. I had a 10” jointer/planer combo sit unused, boxed up for years and when I was giving it a go when I finally had a shop set up, the drive chain fell off from underneath and the chain sprockets and associated plates basically fell apart- the one sprocket shown actually the one out of the four that survived, but you can see the cracking in the iron. I reached out to them with photo’s and they were nice enough to send me a replacement. Any machinery with gears or component parts made with hard plastic I stay away from- don’t they know it warps and breaks in a short period of time?
> 
> View attachment 223085


Are those plastic?


Arn213 said:


> No, but made like one- p*o*s* iron. I bought this “for a song” in Charleston, SC when Woodcraft was open- I knew the owner well. I bought it for a fraction of a price.
> 
> One other company is JET- if they manufactured and gave away free parachutes, I would kindly pass.


TS is jet bought in 2000, disk / belt sander is Jet, my 16/32 sander is jet, jet air cleaner and for about 3 or 4 years I had a18" jet bandsaw. I used it hard. I do not know what their customer service is like. I have never had a problem with any one of these tools.

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## Arn213 (Feb 21, 2022)

Mike1950 said:


> Are those plastic?
> 
> TS is jet bought in 2000, disk / belt sander is Jet, my 16/32 sander is jet, jet air cleaner and for about 3 or 4 years I had a18" jet bandsaw. I used it hard. I do not know what their customer service is like. I have never had a problem with any one of these tools.


It is not plastic and the sprockets with the plates are out of iron.

I have a love and hate relationship w/ Jet. I stuck to that brand because where I use to live in the part of Charleston, SC- they carried this brand and you can check them out on their floor. I had a 10” table saw that lasted me a long time and it was used hard- then it went. I bought a second hand smaller compact one and that lasted for a long time (barely used)- I revived this thing when the motor went out and got a donor motor. I had an 8” and a 10” combo planer/jointer due to space restriction. The belt gear should be made from aluminum or iron, but they were made of some  plastic- guess what those warped over time. The one tool that outlived these and had it since 2006 was my old trusty 13” Jet Planer! That was put through the ringer- many thousand board feet of mostly hardwoods and exotic woods.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mike1950 (Feb 21, 2022)

Arn213 said:


> It is not plastic and the sprockets with the plates are out of iron.
> 
> I have a love and hate relationship w/ Jet. I stuck to that brand because where I use to live in the part of Charleston, SC- they carried this brand and you can check them out on their floor. I has a 10” table saw that lasted me a long time and it was used hard- then it went. I bought a second hand smaller compact one and that lasted for a long time (barely used)- I revived this thing when the motor went out and got a donor motor. I had an 8” and a 10” combo planer/jointer due to space restriction. The belt gear should be made from aluminum or iron, but they were made of some  plastic- guess what those warped over time. The one tool that outlived these and had it since 2006 was my old trusty 13” Jet Planer! That was put through the ringer- many thousand board feet of mostly hardwood and exotic wood.


My TS is a cabinet saw. Was the floor model. The store was going out of biz. $999. Been a very good saw. Bandsaw I had was great. But it had no brake. I put lots of hours on it. I require tools that work. I am not fond of working on them.

Reactions: Like 3


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