# Rockwell lathe?



## justallan

I went and took a look at a Rockwell wood lathe yesterday. From looking up pics on here and trying to remember the numbers I believe it's a model 46-525. Everything seems plenty solid. It's variable speed. It comes with a live center, spur center, faceplate, 2 tool rests, a full shield and 2 sets of chisels. 1 set made in China and the other is AMT. Plus it has a 1"x8 TPI output shaft, so my new chuck will fit. I "think" it's outboard capable, but not positive on that. It came from a school auction down on the rez and looks barely used other than probably being 30-40 years old.
The man thinks he's wanting $300 and he's the one that approached me about it.
What's your thoughts? Anyone have any experience with them?


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## Sprung

I'd check with Greg - @Treecycle Hardwoods - I think he's got a similar older Delta lathe.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## DKMD

@MikeMD had one that he overhauled... I turned on it, and I thought it was a nice lathe. If it's nearly mint, $300 seems cheap.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## Schroedc

If its the one i think it is 300 is a really decent price as long as everything works.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Treecycle Hardwoods

300 is a decent price. Depending on your goals with it you may be disappointed. It still only has a 12" capacity. The gap bed is good for platters but that is about it. If you are ok with the 12" capacity you will be a happy camper. It will have all the power you will need for the diameter turning it can do.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## justallan

Thanks guys.
I'm figuring since he came to me about it and asked $300 I'll probably offer him $200.
The bad part is I'd have to put it out in the shop and that's probably 60-70 yards away. LOL


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## Mike1950

Make sure it is not 3 ph power. I have almost the same lathe in a delta. Only complaint I have is it is not large enough to keep much dust off of floor!!

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Nature Man

With the accessories you listed, think $200 is a good starting point. Chuck


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## barry richardson

A horse trader like you ought to be able to get it for $200, tell em it's an antiquated design, not popular with modern turners, etc. Should be a good sturdy lathe for you, as long as your not looking to turn too big... Like Mike said, make sure it's not 3 phase, quite a few of those around from schools and commercial shops are. The auction _I was in recently had a couple of machines I was licking my chops over, but they turned out to be 3 phase, not worth the hassle to convert. BTW, it doesn't have a huge footprint, should fit in your kitchen_

Reactions: Funny 6


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## justallan

Thanks guys.
It's 110, that is one thing that I checked on.
I want it for my house and then I can give the Jet lathe to my girlfriend to possibly make a few bucks with. She's a little homebody that I think would have fun making pens. Plus then I could maybe make something bigger also.
@barry richardson when I got the little lathe it just almost got set up in the dining room. LOL

Reactions: +Karma 1


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## woodtickgreg

Guys, just an fyi, don't get too hung up on the 3 phase thing. Electronic variable frequency drives are all the rage and the prices are coming way down. I run my 3 phase south bend metal lathe with one. It converts 110v single phase to 220v 3 phase and gives me variable speed and soft start and adjustable motor braking. I bought the best sealed unit I could get and it only cost about 200 bucks ish. Non sealed units are about half that, and 3 phase motors last forever.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## justallan

When I was working at the paintball shop we installed "Buck Boosts" to get our 3 phase. Someone much smarter than myself would dig up the diagrams and I'd wire them in. They worked just fine for CNC lathes, mills, turret lathes and screw machines. I don't know the cost or how they were on the power bill, but they worked just fine.


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## JR Custom Calls

I watched a YouTube video the other day of a guy using single phase 220 and some capacitors to run a 3 phase mortising machine. Looked sketchy as all heck, but seemed to work for him. Surely can't be good for the motor though


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## MikeMD

DKMD said:


> @MikeMD had one that he overhauled... I turned on it, and I thought it was a nice lathe. If it's nearly mint, $300 seems cheap.



Actually, Keller, mine was a PM90...

Anyway, these old machines are built like tanks. Yes, I did a full restoration on mine. I even added riser blocks to the head and tail stocks. The biggest issue I have with these old lathes is that, while beefy and built to last, they are still only 12" lathes. So, unless you put risers on them, you still have only a 12" swing. Now, with my PM90, it had a 1 1/2" x 8 tpi spindle and massive bearings to match. The parts could easily handle the 18" swing I gave it. But on a lathe with a 1" x 8 tpi spindle, I'd be concerned how much more swing you could give it before you'd be stressing the parts (spindle and bearings). 

On another note, if you plan to pimp out the lathe (give it true variable speed, fwd/rev, EStop, etc), you DO want/need a 3 phase motor. Single phase motors can't do all those things (generally...there are some DC motors that can). So, with a 3 phase motor and a VFD (which is what all the modern VS lathes are using) you can bring that lathe into the 21st Century. 

One thing to look at... I know you mentioned that it has variable speed. I'm assuming that is with a Reeves drive. Do some research and find out how good the Reeves drives were on this model. Those buggers either worked great (PM90) or horribly (LONG list of lathes). 

BTW, got my PM90 for $300. Put another $900 (easily) into the restoration/pimping it out.

Reactions: Like 5 | Great Post 1


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## pinky

Nice job on those risers....look original! I agree on the reeves drive. I'm not a fan but some do better than others. I added a DC motor and speed control to an old Yates and turned it into a beast. Something to consider. Having reverse and infinite speed control while keeping torque is really what will make it perform nicely on bigger bowl blanks. If spindles and smaller stuff is what you will be doing, I wouldn't change a thing.


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## barry richardson

MikeMD said:


> Actually, Keller, mine was a PM90...
> 
> Anyway, these old machines are built like tanks. Yes, I did a full restoration on mine. I even added riser blocks to the head and tail stocks. The biggest issue I have with these old lathes is that, while beefy and built to last, they are still only 12" lathes. So, unless you put risers on them, you still have only a 12" swing. Now, with my PM90, it had a 1 1/2" x 8 tpi spindle and massive bearings to match. The parts could easily handle the 18" swing I gave it. But on a lathe with a 1" x 8 tpi spindle, I'd be concerned how much more swing you could give it before you'd be stressing the parts (spindle and bearings).
> 
> On another note, if you plan to pimp out the lathe (give it true variable speed, fwd/rev, EStop, etc), you DO want/need a 3 phase motor. Single phase motors can't do all those things (generally...there are some DC motors that can). So, with a 3 phase motor and a VFD (which is what all the modern VS lathes are using) you can bring that lathe into the 21st Century.
> 
> One thing to look at... I know you mentioned that it has variable speed. I'm assuming that is with a Reeves drive. Do some research and find out how good the Reeves drives were on this model. Those buggers either worked great (PM90) or horribly (LONG list of lathes).
> 
> BTW, got my PM90 for $300. Put another $900 (easily) into the restoration/pimping it out.View attachment 72840


I just looked a PM90 over at an auction, your right, it was a real tank. This one had 4"riser blocks on it for 20" over the bed. And it sure looked to me like the riser blocks were factory installed... it had a 1.5 hp 3ph. I would have really liked to have had it, but don't have a place ready to plant it yet, and aint so easy to move around, as you know. I think it sold for around $650, then you tag on, tax, auction premium, pay the riggers to load it for you, phase converter, or a 1ph motor, the deal wasn't as great. Sure was beefy though, I want something to turn big gnarly off balance stuff, that 1.5 x 8 spindle looked nice and strong...


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## barry richardson

woodtickgreg said:


> Guys, just an fyi, don't get too hung up on the 3 phase thing. Electronic variable frequency drives are all the rage and the prices are coming way down. I run my 3 phase south bend metal lathe with one. It converts 110v single phase to 220v 3 phase and gives me variable speed and soft start and adjustable motor braking. I bought the best sealed unit I could get and it only cost about 200 bucks ish. Non sealed units are about half that, and 3 phase motors last forever.


Greg, will the phase converters give you reverse mode as well?


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## MikeMD

Pinky, thanks, but I didn't make the risers or new banjo. I had them made by a friend. The rest of the restoration was me...other than bearing changes that I let my brother do, and hooking up the VFD which another friend of mine did. I've posted threads about this restoration on numerous forums. And, as I will say now, I said it at all those places...I couldn't have done this without their help!

Barry, OMG, you should have gotten that lathe!!!!! PM90's after 1970 or so (when they remodeled it) were the best ones. And what you saw at that auction wasn't even a PM90...it was a PM91. The PM91 is a PM90 with riser blocks. Those blocks are so flipping rare! $650 would have been a very reasonable price...even if it still needed a full restoration. I got mine for $300 and easily spent $350 for riser blocks and new banjo (banjo needs to be bigger for the larger swing...both vertically and for width). Even though I've sold mine, if I had seen that PM91 at an auction, and could get it for $650, I probably would have jumped on it...even with all the other fees. What would it have come to...$850-900? Still not unreasonable. Spend some more money on the VFD, new motor, remote switch, bearings, and paint, and you'd have a stout 20" lathe for under $1500. Hard to beat!

One really nice feature, as someone else eluded to, is that with a reeves drive, you get full motor torque at any speed...300-top speed. When you use a 3 phase motor and VFD also, you can use the Reeves drive to get you down to 300 rpm, and the VFD to take you down lower (if you want/need). Likewise, you can use the Reeves drive to go to the fastest speed, then use the VFD to slow the motor down. This give you slower speed with reduced torque...perfect for coring...where you don't want the motor to have full torque. I say that because if your motor has full torque while coring, a catch can be HUGE and launch the blank. But if torque is reduced, it just stops the blank.


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## MikeMD

Oh, Pinky, while the risers DID look stock and blended in nicely, what I was proud of (because I did it) was the pulley cover. Since the headstock was raised 3", the stock cover wouldn't fit...obviously. So, I made that one out of wood.


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## Cody Killgore

woodtickgreg said:


> Guys, just an fyi, don't get too hung up on the 3 phase thing. Electronic variable frequency drives are all the rage and the prices are coming way down. I run my 3 phase south bend metal lathe with one. It converts 110v single phase to 220v 3 phase and gives me variable speed and soft start and adjustable motor braking. I bought the best sealed unit I could get and it only cost about 200 bucks ish. Non sealed units are about half that, and 3 phase motors last forever.



I'm glad you mentioned this. I read this thread yesterday and meant to post essentially exactly what you said. I am running 3 machines on 3 different VFDs in my shop. A great way to add variable speed to a machine. And be able to run a reliable 3 phase motor at the same time.



barry richardson said:


> Greg, will the phase converters give you reverse mode as well?



The VFDs will give you reverse. You can even flip the switch instantly over to reverse and the VFD will slow the motor down to a stop then ramp it back up in reverse to keep you from tearing anything up.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Kevin

woodtickgreg said:


> Guys, just an fyi, don't get too hung up on the 3 phase thing. Electronic variable frequency drives are all the rage and the prices are coming way down. I run my 3 phase south bend metal lathe with one. It converts 110v single phase to 220v 3 phase and gives me variable speed and soft start and adjustable motor braking. I bought the best sealed unit I could get and it only cost about 200 bucks ish. Non sealed units are about half that, and 3 phase motors last forever.



I agree 100%. With the price drop in VFD and the benefits they offer over single phase, 3 phase is a better choice not a drawback. In the very near future most woodworking machinery of any size is going to come from the factory 3 phase with built in VFDs IMO, and used hobby-level woodowrking single phase equipment is going to be somewhat frowned upon just like 3 phase has been all these years. The tables are quicklt turning right beofre our eyes it's just that most woodworkers don't see it yet.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## barry richardson

MikeMD said:


> Pinky, thanks, but I didn't make the risers or new banjo. I had them made by a friend. The rest of the restoration was me...other than bearing changes that I let my brother do, and hooking up the VFD which another friend of mine did. I've posted threads about this restoration on numerous forums. And, as I will say now, I said it at all those places...I couldn't have done this without their help!
> 
> Barry, OMG, you should have gotten that lathe!!!!! PM90's after 1970 or so (when they remodeled it) were the best ones. And what you saw at that auction wasn't even a PM90...it was a PM91. The PM91 is a PM90 with riser blocks. Those blocks are so flipping rare! $650 would have been a very reasonable price...even if it still needed a full restoration. I got mine for $300 and easily spent $350 for riser blocks and new banjo (banjo needs to be bigger for the larger swing...both vertically and for width). Even though I've sold mine, if I had seen that PM91 at an auction, and could get it for $650, I probably would have jumped on it...even with all the other fees. What would it have come to...$850-900? Still not unreasonable. Spend some more money on the VFD, new motor, remote switch, bearings, and paint, and you'd have a stout 20" lathe for under $1500. Hard to beat!
> 
> One really nice feature, as someone else eluded to, is that with a reeves drive, you get full motor torque at any speed...300-top speed. When you use a 3 phase motor and VFD also, you can use the Reeves drive to get you down to 300 rpm, and the VFD to take you down lower (if you want/need). Likewise, you can use the Reeves drive to go to the fastest speed, then use the VFD to slow the motor down. This give you slower speed with reduced torque...perfect for coring...where you don't want the motor to have full torque. I say that because if your motor has full torque while coring, a catch can be HUGE and launch the blank. But if torque is reduced, it just stops the blank.


Ah ha, I thought it must have been some kind of factory Mod, it was in good shape, didn't really need a resto, aw well, missed that one, but it was going to be such a hassle in the middle of the move I'm currently making, thanks for the info though...


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## justallan

Well, this turned into a pretty informative thread. Thanks for all the replies.
I knew the lathe I looked at had a variable speed, but the name "Reeves" didn't mean much to me, so I googled it and up pops some pics of pretty much the lathe I'm looking at.


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## Kevin

JR Custom Calls said:


> I watched a YouTube video the other day of a guy using single phase 220 and some capacitors to run a 3 phase mortising machine. Looked sketchy as all heck, but seemed to work for him. Surely can't be good for the motor though



It's not sketchy it does work, but it only allows the 3 ph motor to put out 2/3 of it's potential HP. What you're describing is called a static converter. I use a rotary converter which utilizes what's called a slave motor to allow the 3 ph load to use all of it's windings and produce the full HP it was designed to. VFD's are the way to go now though as they offer not only full power but all of the control advantages previosuly mentioned by Greg and Cody.


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## woodtickgreg

barry richardson said:


> Greg, will the phase converters give you reverse mode as well?


Yes, but it is done through the lathe forward reverse switch on mine. The vfd sends a low voltage to the switch which is f- o-r then the switch controlls the vfd and tells it what to do. So the answer would be YES!


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