# chainsaw slabbing mill



## brown down

I have been back and fourth as to what i want.. Bandsaw mill or chainsaw mill. bandsaw mill is out due to the terrain and what i have to do to get it up there and up the old firelines. I intend to make the track in parts and bolt them together making it fit in the back of my truck or on a small trailer.. this has been boggling my mind as to what amount of power i will need to drive the bar and rip chain. 

I got a 12 HP briggs and stratton motor rebuilt for $125 and runs like a dream..
I have 4 3/4 in threaded rods as risers and will make this out of 1 tube steel, which i am trading primers for  i have plenty 

I made the mock up to see what it would look like and what i would need to tweak 

I have a 1 in tool steel bar as the drive shaft and had that turned down to 7/8 to fit the sprocket which i am still waiting on.. the bars, sprockets, and the v groove wheels are all i need to finish this thing! 

the motor maxes out at 3500 rpm and if i did my math right if i put a 4 in on the motor and a 3 in on the drive shaft that will give me 4,666 rpm which is what i want or think i want! 

Any ideas or thoughts would be appreciated 

this will cut my processing time in half or quarter and yield me some really sick wood

here is the mock up frame with the motor laying on top



[attachment=22443]



[attachment=22444]


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## Kevin

Well you know where I stand. After that video you sent me I sort of threw my hands up lol. To go through the trouble of building a CSM like the one in the video you sent, and not make that extra little jump to a bandmill makes no sense to me at all. It isn't like we're comparing spending $1500 on a CSM versus $3500 on a bandmill. the CSm you're proposing is not going to cost a whole lot less than stepping into a bandmill. 

And where you noted your mobility issue of getting into the woods would be easier, I don't see it. You'd be using the same basic framework for a BM as a CSM with the design you've chosen, so if you can load the CSM in the back of your truck why can't you throw the bandmill in? 

You mill way too much wood to go for a CSM when you are SO CLOSE in design and money invested to make the step into a bandmill. It doesn't really matter to me one way or another, but if you build a CSM instead of a BM I'll never talk to you again. 

:rotflmao3:


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## woodtickgreg

Chainsaw mill if you carry it, and to reduce the size of logs that are to big for a band mill, band mill for everything else.


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## brown down

Where my timber is located, you need a 4x4 to get to it and size really does matter. Trust me I want a band mill but to have that type of weight to unload that isn't an option up there. There are more trees up there than I can saw so wasting 3/8 of an inch on a log per cut isn't in my mind. You also have to figure a band mill will only be usable on a fire line where I can with my design take this with some Effort get it to where the gypsy moths tore threw our forest. I could saw for months and not touch what they did. 

No way could I get a trailer into these woods, I will take pics which will explain why I went this route. 

And kevin you will always talk to me even if I have to come down to northeast northern somewhere Texas 

This motor is electric start and charges so I have the ability to sharpen my chains in field, run a winch and such so maybe down the road I will get my dream mill for now I have to settle for what works for the woods and my budget. I should be right around 1000$ for this build and will be able to saw 30 inch logs


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## Kevin

brown down said:


> ... I have been back and fourth as to what i want.. Bandsaw mill or chainsaw mill.



Jeff all kidding aside, no need to keep asking that question. If your mind is made up then go with it full steam ahead. If it's a CSM you are going to build then start the build thread no matter how simple the beginning may seem to you, nor how long it may take to really get going. I have no doubt whatsoever you will get all the moral and technical support you need right here on WB. 

I will definitely support your efforts in any way I am able. 


.


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## woodtickgreg

Another thing to consider is oiling, a 4 stroke has no oiler. Baileys sells aux oilers. I use one on my mill, all you have to do is drill a hole in the bar for the fitting and you can mount the tank anywhere. It is a gravity feed system, when it is really cold I mix my oil with diesel fuel to get it to flow. 
I am really interested to see some pics of how you make the connection from engine to chain and the sprockets etc. I can get an engine cheap too and have also thought of building a simaler rig as I could do it really cheap also. I'll be following this build with great interest.


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## brown down

woodtickgreg said:


> Another thing to consider is oiling, a 4 stroke has no oiler. Baileys sells aux oilers. I use one on my mill, all you have to do is drill a hole in the bar for the fitting and you can mount the tank anywhere. It is a gravity feed system, when it is really cold I mix my oil with diesel fuel to get it to flow.
> I am really interested to see some pics of how you make the connection from engine to chain and the sprockets etc. I can get an engine cheap too and have also thought of building a simaler rig as I could do it really cheap also. I'll be following this build with great interest.



I have all my parts except a few which should be delivered next week. I will def post pics as soon as the final fabrication has started. I am def going to be doing an oiler, both on the back end of the bar as well as the nose of the bar. some use water but i am going with oil!!!

I am also chain driving this,not with a belt, with this much torque i don't want to hear belts squealing, i found a centrifugal clutch online for 109$
the drive axel is 1" tool steel and turned down to 7/8 to fit my sprocket which will be welded on! the blade tensioner will be on the nose end of the bar! once the actually build has started i will take a lot of pictures! 

I am making this frame big enough for me to run larger bars on down the road! but small enough for me to handle without any major issues.


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## brown down

got my steel cut to length today for some reloading primers!

received my 2 33" bars and 404 sprockets today.

disassembled the mock up and going to be heading over to my buddies to weld the frame up.. hopefully by tomorrow i will have the motor and battery installed! 

made a bar oiler for about $10 
my V groove wheels and centrifugal clutch will be here by friday as well as my ripping chain!

I am crossing my fingers as to have some pics up for you guys to take a look at what i am making! 

I hope kevin talks to me after this :rotflmao3:

hopefully by this weekend i will have the track laid out and sawing some of the 20 plus black locust logs i have. than once i get all of the ( hopefully zero issues) worked out, i will be mountain bound to start sawing what the gypsy moths did to our land!! oak chestnut ect ect


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## woodtickgreg

Very cool! I'll be watching for pics.


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## brown down

i am in the home stretch, rounding third and going home. had a hick up with the build tonight on the last two welds .... not really with the build but with the owner.. my best friend is third in command with the company .. i trouble shot a motor problem they were having with their exhaust, for their paint booth, 3 hours and i didn't charge them a dime! the owner came up and gave my buddy a load of crap for welding steel i bought!! he said, are we running a second shift???. gonna have a talk with the owner tomorrow. they charge $60 an hour for welding, 2 hours is 120, commercial and industrial electrical work i charge $85! if he wants to be a prick about this, well he owes me more than what my buddy did. I did that work out of courtesy and will def bring that up tomorrow! 

the build is going great, will def have pics tomorrow. 

people always forget what you do for them but always turns around and bites you one way or another! this time i am not laying down and taking it, nor will i let my best friend take it either. sometimes, regardless of age you need to put people in their place! I am def not a combative person unless provoked. i am pretty easy going until i get pushed... this man, may see the side of me that i don't like bringing out but if its about money, well he better get his check book out and cut me a check not vise versa! 

it is what it is and the frame is built, gonna add the supports and hopefully get the motor mounted tomorrow! 

it was a great time up until the last 10 mins! but my buddy got to see what i am making and he now gets the idea! should have all the parts by friday and my wheels are coming tomorrow. i hope to have this done by this weekend!!


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## woodtickgreg

A man needs to stand by his principals.


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## brown down

woodtickgreg said:


> A man needs to stand by his principals.



you got that right and from the sounds of how nice he was to my best friend he really feels like an you know what!! 

I got everything bolted together, ran into a snag, while raising and lowering the cage, one of the welds we did last minute in a hurry cause of crazy vodka drunk guy had to be cut loose, it was binding and was having a heck of a time raising up just a few inches. now she rides up and down like a dream. i am going to put a 12 v winch motor on it to raise and lower it and also shear up the sides and where the bar attaches. i have the outputs on the motor for the winch so why not when i can get one and canabalize it for $60 I got my wheels and clutch today, have to measure what size spacer i will need for the clutch! 

Its slowly coming along, if i didn't waste 2 hours trouble shooting the motor cage and 2 hours at the DMV i would have been golden, but such is life!!

gonna get my replacement coupling and do the wiring tomorrow along with adding the drive shaft. hopefully have this done by friday and get everything welded up. 

its solid but i want it more solid with that type of torque and that size chain spinning



[attachment=22870]



its going to be on the lines of this!!


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## woodtickgreg

Looking good! Now that's some progress, thank's for postin pics. Once you get the drive jack shaft all figured out I'd like to see pics of that, funny but that is kinda what I was working out in my head too.


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## brown down

woodtickgreg said:


> Looking good! Now that's some progress, thank's for postin pics. Once you get the drive jack shaft all figured out I'd like to see pics of that, funny but that is kinda what I was working out in my head too.



here is the drive shaft and clutch off the motor! had her running today and will be going tomorrow to get all the finish welding i need done 

just some minor stuff to stiffen up where the bar and the drive shaft attach and also to stiffen the main frame up. 

she sounds like a beast full throttle!! can't wait to get the track made and attach the bar which will be tomorrow morning . 

i will post pics of the bar tensioner i came up with but need that welded as well! I also got my ripping chain today, i am so stoked to take this thing to those black locust logs i have 

so far i am still under 1000$ for this build... actually around $800 all said and done.. i hope 


[attachment=22943]


[attachment=22944]


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[attachment=22946]


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## woodtickgreg

That's is a great set up, I have pictured the same jack shaft set up in my mind. I'm guessing the clutch chain is #40 or #41? My only concern has been chain speed, maybe the torque of the 4 stroke will make up for the lack of chain speed, I'm sure you will let us know when you get to testing it. Looking good so far and the cost for materials is minor imo.


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## brown down

woodtickgreg said:


> That's is a great set up, I have pictured the same jack shaft set up in my mind. I'm guessing the clutch chain is #40 or #41? My only concern has been chain speed, maybe the torque of the 4 stroke will make up for the lack of chain speed, I'm sure you will let us know when you get to testing it. Looking good so far and the cost for materials is minor imo.



the chain is 35 but i can always up to a bigger chain, thats what came with the clutch so thats what i went with, i have plenty of chain and will make spares, hopefully won't need them for awhile! 

the speed is around 4000 RPM i may need to cut off a few of the cutters but will only know that once i start cutting and see how she does! 

I temp mounted the bar and chain and the clutch holds so i am really satisfied! 

hopefully the welding tomorrow will go well with no hick ups so to speak! I will def keep the pics coming!


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## jimmyjames

Im curious on how your bar is mounted and how the sprocket for the chainsaw chain will ride up and down the drive shaft, does it have a keyway or?


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## woodtickgreg

jimmyjames said:


> Im curious on how your bar is mounted and how the sprocket for the chainsaw chain will ride up and down the drive shaft, does it have a keyway or?


I'm assuming the sprocket will be fixed and the whole carriage assembly will move up and down.


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## brown down

jimmyjames said:


> Im curious on how your bar is mounted and how the sprocket for the chainsaw chain will ride up and down the drive shaft, does it have a keyway or?



the drive shaft is 1 in and had it milled down to 7/8 to fit a 404 sprocket! took that and welded it on there.. down the road when i need to add another one which i have, i will just cut that one free and slide on the new one and weld that in place. i would have just bought 7/8 but i already had this 1" tool steel, it was cheaper to have it milled than to buy more tool steel! stuff wasn't cheap! 

there are 4 3/4 in threaded rods with pillow block bearings on each end. that allows them to spin freely each with a sprocket on top and 35 chain running around them.... on each of those rods, there are threaded rod couplings, i welded the motor and bar frame to that. so when you crank the one of the rods with the chain on it they all spin bringing the cage up and down equally!

i will take some better pics today... once i get it all shored up...I will also open a youtube account and get some video of this thing in action once i get her all tuned up and working like i hope she is going to :lolol:


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## brown down

got the frame sheared up and just need to stiffen up where the bar attaches my buddy talked me out of it, but it is what it is. 

very happy with this build, built within 3 days or so and a lot of stress. i am mentally and physically drained right now. firing that thing up with the chain and bar attached was a little nerve wracking but she worked like a charm!

I just got off the phone with by buddy who welded this thing up and he wants to sell kits due to the fact there isn't any plans out there on the lines of this. I may think of doing that but i am in the process of building a company and going though a patent right now so thats on hold for now!

i got the oiler done and hopefully will saw some logs tomorrow. i still have to figure out how i am gonna do bed frame on this!!!! she rolls back and forth with very little effort!!


I have a 23 in cut with the way the bar is connected, 



[attachment=23038]


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## brown down

a little teaser, this is pre all of the new support welds i added and safety/ stabilizing bars! will try to get some good video of the bed and bunk setup, this one is my stationary bed. i am making one down the road that will be added to a small trailer that can be towed by a quad..

also made a lot of changes as far as the log dog supports and will try to film them tomorrow as well, i have to put it all back together and finish the wiring, it was kinda rigged just to get it up and running and see what i needed to add to make it safe!!!

this is a short video i took a few days ago, just opened a youtube account and wanted to see how hard it would be to upload videos!! 


I should have a few videos of me slabbing some of this black locust out tomorrow and will get them up as soon as i can!

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ee5zc5B8Hs[/video]


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## jimmyjames

your video is set to private,need it set to public!


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## brown down

try it now and see if it works


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## jimmyjames

Nope still private


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## brown down

jimmyjames said:


> Nope still private



that should work :lolol: me and computers, another forum i have to learn how to use :dash2::dash2:


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## jimmyjames

Sweet! Is that an electric clutch or centrifugal?


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## jimmyjames

We need a video of it cutting!


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## brown down

jimmyjames said:


> Sweet! Is that an electric clutch or centrifugal?



its a hillard centrifugal clutch the same ones a lot of bandsaw mills use and well go carts! I will def have some video up once i get it put back together, i was way to tired for that today and am going to hit the sack so i can get after it tomorrow! will def have some milling videos of it in action! now that it is all shored up and a heck of a lot more stable , now i am more comfortable with using it! still safety is always comes first!

we will see if all of the added supports did the trick as far as dealing with that type of torque!


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## jimmyjames

What size motor is it again?


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## HomeBody

And you're going to haul this thing out in the woods to mill? How will you get it out there? A 4-wheeler and a trailer? Gary


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## brown down

HomeBody said:


> And you're going to haul this thing out in the woods to mill? How will you get it out there? A 4-wheeler and a trailer? Gary



the whole bed comes apart, that would take an hour or so to set up. I can remove the motor in about 3 mins , it really is just a motor and a chainsaw bar, so with the motor removed the cage weighs around 100 lbs or so. I still have to make ramps for it and plan on adding large wheels to it to roll it around easier. 

right now its not that mobil. Until i get the new quad bed set up figured out in my head, when i go up to the mountains i will leave the bed frame up there, and just drag trees to my location with a quad. the gypsy moths ripped through our forest so i can set up and literally within 50 yard radius have a huge stack of logs to mill

where i hunt we have firelines that go throughout the woods from the old coal locomotives, having a large trailer won't work. they are very tight roads sometimes with my truck i am about a foot or so from other trees. this would all have to be assembled in the woods on one of those firelines until i figure out the quad trailer, don't know if i want the axel permanent or not!

thats why i would leave the bed frame up there and just lump this carriage home!!!

I have enough wood to saw up right now to let me think about this some more! bring on the thoughts if you have any!


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## woodtickgreg

I agree with Jimmy, can't wait to see it milling some wood!


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## brown down

I have her back together for the most part, have to finish the wiring, kinda rigged it just to see how she was going to work after all the additional welds and supports, and now runs like a beast, no shaking which kinda scared me a bit  

stable as a rock and will post a video of me milling some hard hard black locust logs into slabs!!

the pics are kinda crappy but you can see what she is made of from the pics. i am very confident running this thing now, have to swap out some of the bolts to 8 grade but other than that she is complete.

the bed has some work that needs to be done to it, but minor, i will get a close up pics of the dogs and how they work as well.

here are some pics of me milling some black locust, please mind the mess i had tools laying everywhere as well as wood! 

ohhhh and jimmy its a 12 hp briggs and stratton motor driving it!!

[attachment=23453]

[attachment=23454]

[attachment=23455]


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## NYWoodturner

Jeff - that is utterly amazing. From a non-mechanical mind it just amazes the Pi$$ out of me that you can build that from the ground up and have it run so well from the word go.  Hats off to ya Just incredible. 
Scott


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## brown down

NYWoodturner said:


> Jeff - that is utterly amazing. From a non-mechanical mind it just amazes the Pi$$ out of me that you can build that from the ground up and have it run so well from the word go.  Hats off to ya Just incredible.
> Scott


thanks scott

one thing i have gained from my background in commercial industrial electrical work, is the engineering part of things and seeing them in my mind. don't get me wrong this thing had me frustrated and stressed out, but i am no quitter. 

I get my machining and mechanical design from my grandfather on my fathers side and my equipment engineering from my grandfather from my mothers side... I get my refusal to quit and persevere from my mother and especially my father who is an engineer as well.

without a doubt anyone on this site who wants to build one i will give you the exact parts and drawings of this thing! down to the nuts and bolts!

I appreciate all of the support through this build, one very challenging build none the less!!  but she is about 90% done and will have some videos coming soon!


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## Sprung

That is just plain cool! Impressive and well done! I really like the concept of portability you designed this with. I've enjoyed watching this come together. Certainly knocks the socks off the idea of using an Alaskan Mill!


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## woodtickgreg

Sprung said:


> That is just plain cool! Impressive and well done! I really like the concept of portability you designed this with. I've enjoyed watching this come together. Certainly knocks the socks off the idea of using an Alaskan Mill!


Alaskans still have their place and are very useful. Even people with band mills use them to reduce the size of really big logs that won't fit on the mill. I have entertained the idea of building a mill similar to this one but I would still keep my alaskan. It has served me well and I have milled tons of wood with it for cheap. I can pick it up and carry it to a log anywhere and mill it on the spot. Jeff has done a great job with his build and given me a few more ideas.


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## Sprung

woodtickgreg said:


> Sprung said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is just plain cool! Impressive and well done! I really like the concept of portability you designed this with. I've enjoyed watching this come together. Certainly knocks the socks off the idea of using an Alaskan Mill!
> 
> 
> 
> Alaskans still have their place and are very useful. Even people with band mills use them to reduce the size of really big logs that won't fit on the mill. I have entertained the idea of building a mill similar to this one but I would still keep my alaskan. It has served me well and I have milled tons of wood with it for cheap. I can pick it up and carry it to a log anywhere and mill it on the spot. Jeff has done a great job with his build and given me a few more ideas.
Click to expand...


Yeah, an alaskan certainly has its place in wood milling. I would love to have an alaskan mill, but I don't even own a chainsaw yet... I agree, Jeff has done a great job. From the sounds of how much he plans to mill, I'm guessing that this would be easier and quicker for him to use than simply an alaskan - at least that was my impression. (Though I've never had the chance to mill any wood, so I don't know for certain. I'm definitely still learning and am new to many of the aspects of woodworking you guys are old pros at! I like seeing the pics you guys post when you mill wood!)


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## brown down

woodtickgreg said:


> Sprung said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is just plain cool! Impressive and well done! I really like the concept of portability you designed this with. I've enjoyed watching this come together. Certainly knocks the socks off the idea of using an Alaskan Mill!
> 
> 
> 
> Alaskans still have their place and are very useful. Even people with band mills use them to reduce the size of really big logs that won't fit on the mill. I have entertained the idea of building a mill similar to this one but I would still keep my alaskan. It has served me well and I have milled tons of wood with it for cheap. I can pick it up and carry it to a log anywhere and mill it on the spot. Jeff has done a great job with his build and given me a few more ideas.
Click to expand...


they do, and so does a bandsaw mill... I will loose 3/8 per cut, but with the amount of timber that is dead standing to me isn't a big deal. I def see your point with the alaskan mills but you won't see me using one of those, way to dangerous for me! risk versus reward isn't worth that kick back is a son of a b***ch to handle with any saw so thats why i built this, I have over 24 in cut and can mill exactly what size i want, trust me Like kevin said, the amount of timber i saw, a bandsaw is my best bet and could and def down the road will build one but for the time being, this is the most plausible! 

you can make a simple track, heck i am thinking of mounting some wheels on this thing all four corners and lagging a log to a 4x4 set up and kind free hand cutting them in place if that makes sense, just to make slabs out in the brush! 

as soon as possible i will get some video up for you guys to see this thing in action!


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## HomeBody

Very impressive job. I can't wait to see it in action out in the woods. Gary


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## ironman123

No word from Jeff yet. huh

Ray


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## brown down

this week has been kinda crazy and need someone to hold my phone/ camera, milling and filming at the same time sounds like it has bad news written all over it! I have it up and running and have a log set up ready to mill, just need a videographer :lolol:


I am leaving for the mountains tonight for opening day of turkey and hope to have something up by sunday!

Reactions: Like 1


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## ironman123

Good luck on the turkey. Hope you find a good videographer to help you get some super videos.

Ray


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## brown down

I finally got some video taken, both phones memory filled up, should have thought about that prior but it was spur of the moment thing. I had to throw logs off my truck today and go get my truck fixed, but here is a few videos of the mill in action!

I still have to finish the bed, only two bunks, i was having a heck of a time securing the logs but finally have that figured out and is solid!


slabbing black locust up


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## brown down

Joe Rebuild said:


> brown down said:
> 
> 
> 
> I finally got some video taken, both phones memory filled up, should have thought about that prior but it was spur of the moment thing. I had to throw logs off my truck today and go get my truck fixed, but here is a few videos of the mill in action!
> 
> I still have to finish the bed, only two bunks, i was having a heck of a time securing the logs but finally have that figured out and is solid!
> 
> 
> slabbing black locust up
Click to expand...


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## brown down

hmmmmm i will post this one and log out and see what happens 


[video=youtube]http://youtu.be/7T1BdERTRKE[/video]


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## brown down

i can watch it on my iphone without being logged in so hopefully it works for the rest of you if not let me know and i will try to fix it


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## woodtickgreg

It worked for me, I can see it.


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## HomeBody

Worked for me! What is the bottle of liquid hanging with the hose? Oil for the blade? Gary


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## brown down

HomeBody said:


> Worked for me! What is the bottle of liquid hanging with the hose? Oil for the blade? Gary



yea thats the bar oiler for the nose of the bar, works really good, but i need to either make it run horizontal and longer or go with a larger tube, it runs out pretty quick. 

i am gonna try stacking two logs side by side today and mill two at once and see how that goes?

:i_dunno:


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## Kevin

It does look like you could use a few more rpm's even though you have the torque. You probably have that 4 stroke maxed on the rpm's though. But hey, you're milling lumber! Impressive build.


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## brown down

Kevin said:


> It does look like you could use a few more rpm's even though you have the torque. You probably have that 4 stroke maxed on the rpm's though. But hey, you're milling lumber! Impressive build.



yea i agree, i am going to add a larger sprocket on the drive shaft to increase the speed, i am around 3500 rpm and need to be around 4500..
i don't want to go to fast and loose the torque but i think if i ramp it up to around 4500 - 5000 i won't loose that much torque:i_dunno:
what do you all think the speed should be around??


joe i will get you those specs as soon as i get a free moment..


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## Kevin

I think you'll have to experiment to find a good balance. Be sure to save one particular log to use as a test bed. You can eek out more torque by richening it up a little, but there's a limit to that and Greg would know better than I how to go about that or if you should at all. I just know from watching the video and such a small log, you have a lot of tweeking yet to do. It was very slow-going. It could be a mix of not yet optimizing your chain configuration and rpm. By chain configuration I mean every last detail as to skip vs full comp, square vs round, crosscut vs milling, grind sharpened vs hand filed down to brand even - _ad infinitum_.

You may raise an eyebrow at something like square chisel vs round, but you will find csm'ers who swear by round skip chain with with cutters ground to 35° for hard wide species, and other who swear by everything just opposite or any mix thereof. Listening to what others prefer is a good thing, but I never listen to someone who tells you _"the best setup is xyz"_ because there's almost never a "best" setup for everyone. Too many variables - ones we never even think of sometimes for years. You go back and listen to someone who swears by xyz a few years later _"Oh I don't do it that way anymore I found a better way. You don't use xyz anymore do you? That's silly."_ We all experience that, but that's why I try not to ever claim my way is best because I'm always finding new and better ways to do things. I used to eat soup with a fork, but I recently discovered spoons are much better suited for eating soup. 

Probably not what you are looking for, but all I can say is it took me years to find the combo's I use for my csm'ing. And I am still experimenting and I have been at it for going on 8 years. The only way to find the combinations you want is to mill & tinker & fiddle & adjust. After that you need to mill & tinker & fiddle & adjust. You probably know what the next step is . . . . .


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## brown down

Kevin said:


> I think you'll have to experiment to find a good balance. Be sure to save one particular log to use as a test bed. You can eek out more torque by richening it up a little, but there's a limit to that and Greg would know better than I how to go about that or if you should at all. I just know from watching the video and such a small log, you have a lot of tweeking yet to do. It was very slow-going. It could be a mix of not yet optimizing your chain configuration and rpm. By chain configuration I mean every last detail as to skip vs full comp, square vs round, crosscut vs milling, grind sharpened vs hand filed down to brand even - _ad infinitum_.
> 
> You may raise an eyebrow at something like square chisel vs round, but you will find csm'ers who swear by round skip chain with with cutters ground to 35° for hard wide species, and other who swear by everything just opposite or any mix thereof. Listening to what others prefer is a good thing, but I never listen to someone who tells you _"the best setup is xyz"_ because there's almost never a "best" setup for everyone. Too many variables - ones we never even think of sometimes for years. You go back and listen to someone who swears by xyz a few years later _"Oh I don't do it that way anymore I found a better way. You don't use xyz anymore do you? That's silly."_ We all experience that, but that's why I try not to ever claim my way is best because I'm always finding new and better ways to do things. I used to eat soup with a fork, but I recently discovered spoons are much better suited for eating soup.
> 
> Probably not what you are looking for, but all I can say is it took me years to find the combo's I use for my csm'ing. And I am still experimenting and I have been at it for going on 8 years. The only way to find the combinations you want is to mill & tinker & fiddle & adjust. After that you need to mill & tinker & fiddle & adjust. You probably know what the next step is . . . . .




ohhh i know what you are saying for sure! and that def helps out!!!

when i ordered my chain from baileys, i ordered a standard ripping chain, they make chains for their lucas mills that run their teeth every 7 inches or so to compensate for the rpm, don't know why that would make a difference and the price for less teeth is twice as much!!
I may have to order one and give it a go!

so a crosscut chain may work for ripping?

I will take a pic of the stack of lumber i have out of this thing and i just finished my last log that i have here, and could tell the teeth were dull!!!
i have 10 or so more logs of this species to cut so i will order some different chains and see how it performs and also a larger sprocket to amp up the rpms

I def have a lot of tweaking to do before i build my final bed for this thing and also have it powder coated which i found out today will cost me nothing! what are great friends for!!

i will say this, black locust is some extremely dense wood! i had a maple log lying around and blew right through that...


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## woodtickgreg

I agree with Kevin's observation of it being slow, but my handheld mill is also slow. I have been experimenting with chains and grinds a bit as Kevin has said we all do, I find that a grind angle about half of what a normal chain is works well, 15 to 20 degrees ish. And this isn't rocket science, it's not exact. I noticed 2 things from the video, it was slow going and produced a very fine dust. I would think that with the torque of a four stroke you should have been pulling a little larger chip and not so much dust. I would try a skip tooth chain reground to the degrees mentioned above. I also agree the chain speed is far to slow as we kinda discussed earlier in the thread. Remember 12,000 rpm chainsaw vs 3,600 rpm 4 stroke. I think you could safely double the speed of the chain and still be safe and maybe it still won't be enough. I would not try to richen the carb settings on the motor, just set it to run correctly and it will work fine. The issue is not with motor settings, it's with chain speed. IMO. This is also why I had talked about a jackshaft set up to increase the chain speed with sprockets. I have even thought of using a 4 speed walk behind commercial mower transmission to fine tune the speed for different woods, but that may be overkill. But having said all this, you have done a fabulous job and quickly too!  It's a great design and like all inventions it just needs some fine tuning and tweaking. I have enjoyed watching this build and thank you for posting it and I will continue to watch and learn with you and share when I can.


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## Kevin

woodtickgreg said:


> .. being slow, but my handheld mill is also slow. I have been experimenting with chains and grinds... I find that a grind angle about half of what a normal chain is works well, 15 to 20 degrees ish. And this isn't rocket science, it's not exact. I noticed 2 things from the video, it was slow going and produced a very fine dust. I would think that with the torque of a four stroke you should have been pulling a little larger chip and not so much dust. I would try a skip tooth chain reground to the degrees mentioned above. I also agree the chain speed is far to slow as we kinda discussed earlier in the thread. Remember 12,000 rpm chainsaw vs 3,600 rpm 4 stroke. I think you could safely double the speed of the chain and still be safe and maybe it still won't be enough. I would not try to richen the carb settings on the motor, just set it to run correctly and it will work fine. The issue is not with motor settings, it's with chain speed. IMO. This is also why I had talked about a jackshaft set up to increase the chain speed with sprockets. I have even thought of using a 4 speed walk behind commercial mower transmission to fine tune the speed for different woods, but that may be overkill. But having said all this, you have done a fabulous job and quickly too!  It's a great design and like all inventions it just needs some fine tuning and tweaking. I have enjoyed watching this build and thank you for posting it and I will continue to watch and learn with you and share when I can.



Well stated my friend.


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## brown down

this is exactly why i don't bother with other woodworking sites.... the info and constructive criticism is what sets this site aside from all others

I can't thank all of you for all of the input in this build. i like a challenge but this was def one for the books to say the least.. i will keep plugging away at this and hopefully get it fine tuned for what i expect it to be! it is def slow, so i need to ramp the speed up, prob with that, is you loose torque, i have no idea what the calculations are on that??? speed vs torgue loss. I will try some different chains, at different angles to see how she works. from 35- 20 they are cheap with the amount of re sharpening you can get out of them! 

greg are you talking about putting another drive shaft in between the clutch and drive shaft? one with a smaller sprocket and another with a larger one to drive the actual drive shaft?


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## woodtickgreg

brown down said:


> greg are you talking about putting another drive shaft in between the clutch and drive shaft? one with a smaller sprocket and another with a larger one to drive the actual drive shaft?


Yup that is exactly what I have thought about. I have wanted to build a mill like this for some time and I have pondered the issue of getting the chain speed up. I would not be too concerned with torque loss as it will be negligible. I truely believe you are almost there, I think a higher chain speed with a more aggressive chain and you will be much happier.  The big 4 stroke has torque producing features that a 2 stroke chainsaw doesn't, like a massive flywheel for inertia, a larger and heavier crankshaft, and a massive piston, all of this equates to basic physics. A body that is set in motion tends to stay in motion. 2 strokes rely on rpm for power, mostly hp and not as much torque.
When trying to figure out your gearing think of a ten speed bike, big sprocket at the crank pedals and small sprocket at the wheels equals higher speed. You will regulate the torque by how fast you feed the mill, just like you do when using a chainsaw. When you hear the motor slowing or laboring you just slow the feed down.


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## davduckman2010

greg my freind your one smart dude. duck


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## woodtickgreg

davduckman2010 said:


> greg my freind your one smart dude. duck


Your too funny super duck, no I'm not smarter than anyone else here, I just have more experience in some areas than others do and not as much in other things.


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## brown down

woodtickgreg said:


> brown down said:
> 
> 
> 
> greg are you talking about putting another drive shaft in between the clutch and drive shaft? one with a smaller sprocket and another with a larger one to drive the actual drive shaft?
> 
> 
> 
> Yup that is exactly what I have thought about. I have wanted to build a mill like this for some time and I have pondered the issue of getting the chain speed up. I would not be too concerned with torque loss as it will be negligible. I truely believe you are almost there, I think a higher chain speed with a more aggressive chain and you will be much happier.  The big 4 stroke has torque producing features that a 2 stroke chainsaw doesn't, like a massive flywheel for inertia, a larger and heavier crankshaft, and a massive piston, all of this equates to basic physics. A body that is set in motion tends to stay in motion. 2 strokes rely on rpm for power, mostly hp and not as much torque.
> When trying to figure out your gearing think of a ten speed bike, big sprocket at the crank pedals and small sprocket at the wheels equals higher speed. You will regulate the torque by how fast you feed the mill, just like you do when using a chainsaw. When you hear the motor slowing or laboring you just slow the feed down.
Click to expand...


good thing i still have about a 1 1/2 ft of that tool steel left. i have plenty of room to add another shaft and could add different or have different sprockets handy for different species of wood. 

man you guys are great, my wheels are spinning, good thing those sprockets are fairly cheap. same as those pillow blocks, tool steel wasn't :rotflmao3:
i am still going to buy some different chains as well

now as far as that is concerned do you guys hand sharpen which i know how to do or use a machine which i also use, they are a lot faster and more accurate IMO!


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## jimmyjames

It looks like the chain is traveling clockwise when looking from above? Is that going to affect anything? Its like the chain is being pushed into the cut rather then pulled through the cut? I'm not sure if it makes any difference.......


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## brown down

jimmyjames said:


> It looks like the chain is traveling clockwise when looking from above? Is that going to affect anything? Its like the chain is being pushed into the cut rather then pulled through the cut? I'm not sure if it makes any difference.......



i forget which way is clockwise and counter, but it is traveling with the teeth facing the right way if thats what your asking :rotflmao3::lolol:

its no difference than if you flip your chainsaw upside down.. if your facing the front of the saw the teeth are going right to left, my side left to right on the front of the bar. 

I NEED MORE SPEED :rotflmao3::rotflmao3: Gotta get the speed up, i may have to order some high speed bearings, i think the ones that are on the drive part of the bar are rated for around 5000 rpm
i will use those off the transmission part/bar and use the high speed ones for where the bar connects! 

anyone know what the formula for gear ration is as far as teeth! i know how to figure out pulleys but not gears????


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## davduckman2010

woodtickgreg said:


> davduckman2010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> greg my freind your one smart dude. duck
> 
> 
> 
> Your too funny super duck, no I'm not smarter than anyone else here, I just have more experience in some areas than others do and not as much in other things.
Click to expand...


ok then your one skilled dude


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## jimmyjames

Just take the number of teeth on the 2 sprockets and divide them. For example sprocket 1 has 10 teeth, sprocket 2 has 5 teeth, divide 10 by 5 and you get 2 which egauls 2:1 or 1:2 whichever way you install them to step up or step down.

Edit: I'm assuming you meant sprockets?


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## brown down

jimmyjames said:


> Just take the number of teeth on the 2 sprockets and divide them. For example sprocket 1 has 10 teeth, sprocket 2 has 5 teeth, divide 10 by 5 and you get 2 which egauls 2:1 or 1:2 whichever way you install them to step up or step down.
> 
> Edit: I'm assuming you meant sprockets?



so its on the same lines as pulleys than!! 1 inch pulley on the drive and 2 inch on whatever you are putting it to drive doubles the motor rpms??? or vise versa!??


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## woodtickgreg

As far as the grinding or filing, I do both. I will hand file and then after about 4 or 5 times filing I put it on the grinder to get all the teeth set even again. If I am changing the angle I use the grinder just because it's faster.


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## jimmyjames

brown down said:


> jimmyjames said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just take the number of teeth on the 2 sprockets and divide them. For example sprocket 1 has 10 teeth, sprocket 2 has 5 teeth, divide 10 by 5 and you get 2 which egauls 2:1 or 1:2 whichever way you install them to step up or step down.
> 
> Edit: I'm assuming you meant sprockets?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so its on the same lines as pulleys than!! 1 inch pulley on the drive and 2 inch on whatever you are putting it to drive doubles the motor rpms??? or vise versa!??
Click to expand...


Yep instead of inches you use the number of teeth


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## Kevin

jimmyjames said:


> brown down said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jimmyjames said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just take the number of teeth on the 2 sprockets and divide them. For example sprocket 1 has 10 teeth, sprocket 2 has 5 teeth, divide 10 by 5 and you get 2 which egauls 2:1 or 1:2 whichever way you install them to step up or step down.
> 
> Edit: I'm assuming you meant sprockets?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so its on the same lines as pulleys than!! 1 inch pulley on the drive and 2 inch on whatever you are putting it to drive doubles the motor rpms??? or vise versa!??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep instead of inches you use the number of teeth
Click to expand...


I heard something similar once but in a different setting. 

:saythat:


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## brown down

Kevin said:


> jimmyjames said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> brown down said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jimmyjames said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just take the number of teeth on the 2 sprockets and divide them. For example sprocket 1 has 10 teeth, sprocket 2 has 5 teeth, divide 10 by 5 and you get 2 which egauls 2:1 or 1:2 whichever way you install them to step up or step down.
> 
> Edit: I'm assuming you meant sprockets?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so its on the same lines as pulleys than!! 1 inch pulley on the drive and 2 inch on whatever you are putting it to drive doubles the motor rpms??? or vise versa!??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep instead of inches you use the number of teeth
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I heard something similar once but in a different setting.
> 
> :saythat:
Click to expand...


:rotflmao3::rotflmao3::rotflmao3::rotflmao3::rotflmao3::rotflmao3::rotflmao3: now thats funny i don't care who you are thats funny right there, if you can 't laugh at that you need to get out of here :rotflmao3::rotflmao3:


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## brown down

got my winch motor for the carriage mounted. lets just say I was getting a little frustrated. The wiring diagram was crap to say the least. I must have gotten a friday special. one of the solenoids was bad. got that replaced, got the motor running. zero load on it just the sprocket and the motor cooked. mind you its a Ramsey motor and lifts around 8000 lbs 

I got it geared down to 89 RPMS which seams to work great at that speed, but trips the 100 Amp breaker I have mounted when running the carriage up all the way. I did the calculations for this and its at about 250 amps full load. I am gonna increase it to 150 amps. its only gonna be used for a few seconds so it won't hurt the cable.

she is done as far as components. Gotta paint her but there are logs calling my name up in the mountains. that may be a late summer job when my bed frame gets made. the track I have up in the mountains is gonna stay up there, need one for here! 

Thank you to all who helped me out with the gearing and the over all build!

Reactions: Way Cool 4


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## Sprung

Very cool, Jeff!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## JR Custom Calls

I don't know how you managed to pull this off... Just looking at it confuses me. 

But... VERY cool.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Kevin

250 AMPS!!!! What!!???

I know you're sayng it's FLA not RLA but that can't be right.

Reactions: Like 1


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## brown down

Kevin i had to check and recheck those numbers. def wouldn't want to get between the motor and the battery!

1 horse power motor = 745 watts 


power = I (amps) times E (energy)
745 watts x 4.8 HP =3576 watts. 
3576/ 12v actually equals close to 300 amps thats at full load and full torque

unfortunately I don't have the probes for DC current for either of my fluke meters . so I really can't tell you what its drawing under the load of the mill but its greater than 100 amps 


oh I got pretty confused myself with this well heck it doesn't take much to confuse me. I mounted that setup 2 times before I got it right! trial and error would be my middle name


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## brown down

Some changes I will be making fairly soon. I am almost done with the initial drawings. I know a few members were interested in detailed drawings. I have been learning autocad for about a year now.. what a sick program that is! I should have all of the dimensions put in within the next few days! I have to add a few structural supports in. Please speak up on any changes you think I will need or add ons! not everything is to scale for instance the pillow block bearings as the will change in size depending on manufacturer

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 2


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## brown down

once I am finished I will make a PDF file for only woodbarter members

Reactions: Way Cool 2


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## brown down




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## woodtickgreg

Diggin it, very cool!

Reactions: Like 1


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## brown down

Bar Tensioner
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BziOgBopm_BtNEItMm1QSkRHTlk&authuser=0
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BziOgBopm_BtWkd1LTJzU1h4Mk0&authuser=0

Bar Bracket
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BziOgBopm_BtMHpMX1JlanFiZEE&authuser=0
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BziOgBopm_BtRzdZa2h2Ym04cU0&authuser=0
Frame front view
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BziOgBopm_BtR3MtSEMxX3RGV0E&authuser=0

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BziOgBopm_BtQ1llVEQtN1luQW8&authuser=0

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BziOgBopm_BtR05uWks2R3hmeGM&authuser=0



side view
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BziOgBopm_BtTlU2RXJ1UXlhVXM&authuser=0
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BziOgBopm_BtN2tQb0l4aXVPT0E&authuser=0


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## Kevin

Happy birthday Jeff!

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Way Cool 1


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## woodtickgreg

What's with the links?


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## brown down

Thanks Kevin! They should be PDF files of the drawings I have done! kinda wish I had this program two years ago! i haven't a clue how to put this into a folder and upload as one PDF yet. if anyone knows how feel free to chime in!


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## woodtickgreg

Maybe Marc @ripjack13 might know how?


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