# Question for those who have worked Osage orange



## Mark1331 (Jun 20, 2018)

Hi all, I am not a good woodworker and have not made much of anything worthwhile for years. However, at some point I'm going to start seeing what I can make out of some of the wood on my land, the main one I am considering working is Osage Orange, I have craploads of it and some of it reasonably tall and (for Osage) reasonably straight. 

Can some of you give me some ideas of what items you have been able to make with this wood? If so, can you advise some of the problems/tricks you have found in working with it? I'm particularly interested in larger items, as some of what I have is pretty big and I might be able to make chairs, coffee tables, or something. I just don't know the limits of the wood.

From my experience in using it for firewood, I know it starts cracking after it starts drying, but if it dries too long it gets really hard and difficult to work with. I'm wondering if depending on the planned use you would cut it into the shape you would work it and then let it dry, or if you would work it green and hope it doesn't start cracking once it seasons.

Also, pardon if some of my questions are pretty ignorant, I have never tried making anything out of Osage. I can't state enough that I'm not a good woodworker and it has been a long time since I have really made much of anything, but I'm looking forward to getting back into and seeing what I can make with what I have here.


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## Tony (Jun 20, 2018)

Mark, I've worked with a fair amount of it. It does get EXTREMELY hard after it dries, and cracks a lot as it dries. My advice is to seal it up good when you cut it, let it dry slowly. If you are going to turn it, you can rough turn it to shape, leave it a little thick to finish out and true up when it dries. For building projects, I would cut it a little thicker, wider and longer than you plan on finishing up with. For instance, if you need boards that are 1" thick, 8" wide and 60" long, cut it to 1-1/4" thick, 10" wide and 66" long. 

There is also a pretty good market here for that wood, you could sell some to buy you some tools! There are a couple of bow makers that want some, and it's a great wood for tool handles as well. Good luck, keep asking questions!! Tony

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Mark1331 (Jun 20, 2018)

Tony, thanks for the reply! I'll probably be going for building projects, and I figure my first attempt with this will be using a chainsaw mill to make some rough lumber. From there I'm assuming seal the ends of the lumber and dry it outside, from what I've read. What I really would like to do is build a pole barn using osage for the poles and everything else....if I do it well it should outlast me by a long time.

If there is a market for it I might sell some of it if folks can use it, my only worry would be me supplying what folks really need and not junk that they couldn't use. I have watched a few videos on people splitting a log for bow staves, but I've never tried it.

I'll keep asking questions, and I'm really thankful for the advice! This may sound crazy, but when I'm cutting firewood out of it from some really straight pieces I feel a bit guilty, knowing that something nice could be made from that instead of me burning it. Still, its wonderful firewood and I use it for my main heat source in the winter with gas and hvac as backup. I'm just hoping to actually use it for something creative at some point.

Reactions: Like 1


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## rocky1 (Jun 20, 2018)

If you're going to saw it and seal, I would highly recommend Anchor Seal Classic. Haven't heard a lot of "good" reports on the Anchor Seal 2. Most swear by the classic... 

http://uccoatings.com/products/anchorseal/ 

Also available in smaller quantities on Amazon if you're a Prime Member.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


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## Mark1331 (Jun 20, 2018)

Thanks Rocky, good to know.


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## DKMD (Jun 20, 2018)

I’ve mostly used it for turning and I haven’t had too much luck drying it without cracking. Every now and then, I’ll have a rough out survive without cracking, but it’s probably less than half of them. I’ve had similar experience with 6/4 to 12/4 lumber. Seems like I’ve had mor success with pen blanks and small 4/4 boards.

If you like rustic, you can incorporate the cracks and checks into the finished products.


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## Mark1331 (Jun 20, 2018)

I have a feeling that my first few projects will be rustic regardless, whether I intend to or not :) I'm thinking that once I get to the point of sawing rough lumber, is just to concentrate harvesting timber that will yield the widest and rough cut it, sealing the ends, and letting the wood tell me if I should use it for anything. Hopefully I'll end up with some usable sections. This definitely should be interesting regardless!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tony (Jun 21, 2018)

Mark, @Arn213 is a musical instrument maker who uses Bois d'Arc, maybe he can add to your knowledge. Tony


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## Mike1950 (Jun 21, 2018)

I would start with a bit softer wood if it is available. Might be easier to get through first part of learning curve with wood that is easier to work.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Mark1331 (Jun 21, 2018)

I don't disagree. I just have so much osage that I may just learn the hard way.


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## Tony (Jun 21, 2018)

Mark1331 said:


> I don't disagree. I just have so much osage that I may just learn the hard way.



Mike has a very good point. Maybe you could trade some Osage for some softer woods to work on your skills with. Some Walnut or something. Tony

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Arn213 (Jun 21, 2018)

@Tony covered a lot of ground with great points and information as well as everybody else!

I am on research on development phase on this wood. Tony was kind enough to pass on a nice slab that he split into two for me that was from a log that the late great Kevin felled. I am sitting on those two blanks, letting it continuously naturally air dried as it is roughly about 13 percent moisture content. I am planning on taking these 2 blanks and fabricate them into 2 set neck blanks out of it for electric guitars. I have to get the moisture content down to about 6-8 percent moisture and then sit on them longer so they can season properly (relative humidity around 50% in a climate controlled environment). I have to carefully monitoring them at this point if the parts are moving as it dries naturally (rotating all 4 sides equally), record the moisture content and mark out any checking or cracks that occurs during the drying process. This natural drying process is very important stages for what I need to accomplish with these 2 blanks and what happens to them between and now and the near future will determine if these would be slated for the builds. The way @Tony ripped it for me is ideal for these necks as they are quartered cut. So far so good @Tony  This will keep the blanks from cupping or warping (usually happens to flat sawn cut material) due to the grain orientation on how they were cut. However, with that said with the quarter sawn/quartered cut material, there is the issue of the blank “bowing”. That is why a “truss rod” is use to compensate for that from seasonal changes. I am not going to worry about it as this wood is very dense and very stiff.

You are probably wondering why use this wood for guitar building as it is very dense, very hard, very heavy and has a bold yellow hue ? Well, I have read and seen a small sample size of instruments being made from OO ranging from acoustic back and sides, guitar fretboards, bolt-on guitar necks, neck laminations, etc. Nothing out of set-necks with a long tenon with a 14-17 degree headstock angle. I hear good write ups about it from luthiers and the inherent sound envelope it replicates. When I received these two blanks from @Tony, I was very pleased how both pieces had these mid glass/metallic like tap tone response that was warm, resembling what you hear from most genuine rosewood specie. That to me shows “potential and promise” sonically, plus gives hope to builders for an “alternative” means of having a domestic wood that has sonic properties as most genuine rosewood. Plus there are restrictions now on genuine rosewood since begining of 2017.

I keep data on pounds per board foot on most specie that I have collected- one of the reasons is that you don’t want to end up with a heavy guitar that weighs like an anchor. OO that is air dried naturally with about 12 percent moisture content is roughly about 4.9 pounds per board foot- it would be a hair less in weight once the moisture content is down to 6-8 percent. Soft maple is about 3.5 pounds per board foot. Hard maple is roughly 4 pounds per board foot. Median range genuine mahogany is about 3 pounds per board foot. Brazilian rose is roughly about 4.6 to 4.8 pounds per board foot.

The smooth hand, density, stiffness, hardness of OO reminds me a lot of Brazilian pernambuco (it is about 5.6 pounds median per board foot when air dried). Brazilian pernambuco has bold “orange” dust when processed and OO has this bold yellow dust when processed. They both are very hard and stiff to bend when used as side panels for acoustic guitar sidewalls, specially when they are quartered cut.

When you these into dimensional blanks and if you have straight logs, I would suggest in milling some pieces that are quarter sawn along with some slab sawn cut material. This way you will have versatility and options for different builds. I have some other pieces of OO here from different states- I notice that the flat sawn sides of dimensional lumber are prone to hair line checks when drying and seasoning. Cracks do developed at ends-the Anchorseal does help minimize it.

@Blueglass one of WB resident instrument builder hopefully would chime in..........

Reactions: Great Post 2


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## Mark1331 (Jun 21, 2018)

Tony, luckily I have a variety of wood at hand so I might try some of that if I get too frustrated with the osage. My home includes a lot of land that was mostly pasture probably 35-40 years ago and was let go, and I have a variety of wood ( a lot of cedar and a lot of different types of trees scattered around), both young and some older growth. I'm trying to avoid cutting anything that might be marketable timber in the future, but I have something to fall back on if I give up with osage and still want to woodwork. 

I wouldn't need to barter, but I might do is tradeouts with folks, for example if I gave enough wood for someone to make multiple items, maybe get a finished item in return. I don't know if folks like to do that, but I'm open to that once I get to the point of sawing stuff up for that use, may sell some too if folks want it. I'll have a better idea once I actually process some. It is still a ways down the road for that as I need to get a new barn built hopefully before the year is out. Once I have that out of the way I'll have a place for all my heavier equipment and that will free up another building that I can use for processing wood. 

Arn, thanks for the info! I have been curious about the tone it would have if made into instruments, the first thing that came to mind was a violin since it would not be difficult to get the sizes needed for it but I've never run across one (or for that matter any instruments made of it other than a dulcimer). I know it would probably be pretty difficult to hollow the backplate, for example, and would likely be noticeably heavier than a standard violin. Still, I do wonder how it would end up as an instrument. I'd be interested to know how your build goes once that dries out enough to work. I hope you have good luck with it!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Arn213 (Jun 22, 2018)

Mark1331 said:


> Tony, luckily I have a variety of wood at hand so I might try some of that if I get too frustrated with the osage. My home includes a lot of land that was mostly pasture probably 35-40 years ago and was let go, and I have a variety of wood ( a lot of cedar and a lot of different types of trees scattered around), both young and some older growth. I'm trying to avoid cutting anything that might be marketable timber in the future, but I have something to fall back on if I give up with osage and still want to woodwork.
> 
> I wouldn't need to barter, but I might do is tradeouts with folks, for example if I gave enough wood for someone to make multiple items, maybe get a finished item in return. I don't know if folks like to do that, but I'm open to that once I get to the point of sawing stuff up for that use, may sell some too if folks want it. I'll have a better idea once I actually process some. It is still a ways down the road for that as I need to get a new barn built hopefully before the year is out. Once I have that out of the way I'll have a place for all my heavier equipment and that will free up another building that I can use for processing wood.
> 
> Arn, thanks for the info! I have been curious about the tone it would have if made into instruments, the first thing that came to mind was a violin since it would not be difficult to get the sizes needed for it but I've never run across one (or for that matter any instruments made of it other than a dulcimer). I know it would probably be pretty difficult to hollow the backplate, for example, and would likely be noticeably heavier than a standard violin. Still, I do wonder how it would end up as an instrument. I'd be interested to know how your build goes once that dries out enough to work. I hope you have good luck with it!



There is a great “science” in tonewood where data is available. Traditional violin wood construction ingredients are “primarily” spruce top (high velocity of sound), maple ribs/carved backs/necks (low velocity of sound with higher degree of internal dampening), ebony fingerboard/fittings/tailpiece (lower velocity of sound) etc. There is a reason why those woods are used- one, it is time tested for centuries with good standing results. The top wood has to be a soft wood so it can vibrate freely (must have excellent stiffness, true quarter sawn/vertical grain, with tight growth ring spacing without grain run out. The maple back, maple ribs (side walls) and maple neck has good mechanical properties which generates a lighter instrument (medium density) while retaining acoustical properties. Grain orientation, sound response, age/seasoning, stiffness and density is important consideration for sound quality.

Having said that, OO is regarded with a high velocity of sound and low dampening sonic properties that is in line with most genuine rosewood (there is actually a “scale” where the lower density rosewood, medium and higher density rosewood are named and group; rosewoods are not created equal among other things). It would be too heavy for a violin and does not have that acoustical “transparency” as maple. I am not saying you can’t experiment, but certain tonewoods (by itself or combined with others) will yield a certain sonic signature that is either “relatable” to our ears using traditional woods that has been time tested or it could be “foreign” to our ears when non- traditional wood is used that could result in different and/or interesting sound that might take time for us to get acustom too.

I am actually fighting the same fight- necks are vital sonic components on electric builds. It can’t be too light or too heavy. The strongest vibration and sound transmission happens at the neck. An OO neck could be too heavy resulting in a neck dive. But, based on the data and my intuition, plus having owned necks with heavier density like pernambuco, I am fairly optimistic that on paper and based on what I hear, I will end up with good or even greater results.

Reactions: Informative 4


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## Arn213 (Jun 22, 2018)

Arn213 said:


> There is a great “science” in tonewood where data is available. Traditional violin wood construction ingredients are “primarily” spruce top (high velocity of sound), maple ribs/carved backs/necks (low velocity of sound with higher degree of internal dampening), ebony fingerboard/fittings/tailpiece (lower velocity of sound) etc. There is a reason why those woods are used- one, it is time tested for centuries with good standing results. The top wood has to be a soft wood so it can vibrate freely (must have excellent stiffness, true quarter sawn/vertical grain, with tight growth ring spacing without grain run out. The maple back, maple ribs (side walls) and maple neck has good mechanical properties which generates a lighter instrument (medium density) while retaining acoustical properties. Grain orientation, sound response, age/seasoning, stiffness and density is important consideration for sound quality.
> 
> Having said that, OO is regarded with a high velocity of sound and low dampening sonic properties that is in line with most genuine rosewood (there is actually a “scale” where the lower density rosewood, medium and higher density rosewood are named and group; rosewoods are not created equal among other things). It would be too heavy for a violin and does not have that acoustical “transparency” as maple. I am not saying you can’t experiment, but certain tonewoods (by itself or combined with others) will yield a certain sonic signature that is either “relatable” to our ears using traditional woods that has been time tested or it could be “foreign” to our ears when non- traditional wood is used that could result in different and/or interesting sound that might take time for us to get acustom too.
> 
> I am actually fighting the same fight- necks are vital sonic components on electric builds. It can’t be too light or too heavy. The strongest vibration and sound transmission happens at the neck. An OO neck could be too heavy resulting in a neck dive. But, based on the data and my intuition, plus having owned necks with heavier density like pernambuco, I am fairly optimistic that on paper and based on what I hear, I will end up with good or even greater results.


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## against.the.grain (Jun 30, 2018)

Popular for Duck Calls. Probably my favorite domestic wood.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Way Cool 2


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## against.the.grain (Jun 30, 2018)

Also like it for furniture

Reactions: Sincere 1


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## Mark. (Jul 1, 2018)

Mark1331 said:


> Hi all, I am not a good woodworker and have not made much of anything worthwhile for years. However, at some point I'm going to start seeing what I can make out of some of the wood on my land, the main one I am considering working is Osage Orange, I have craploads of it and some of it reasonably tall and (for Osage) reasonably straight.
> 
> Can some of you give me some ideas of what items you have been able to make with this wood? If so, can you advise some of the problems/tricks you have found in working with it? I'm particularly interested in larger items, as some of what I have is pretty big and I might be able to make chairs, coffee tables, or something. I just don't know the limits of the wood.
> 
> ...


You are at the rite place to find answers to most all of your questions. The one thing that stood out most to me in Your request for advice was in one statement where You for (ignorance) questions. The advice I can give is a smiple statement. The only ignorant question is the question You don't ask. As far as any suggestion of what to do with the wood in question is, I don't even know what Osage Orange is. With that in mind I ask, Ignorant, not me. Latter , & don't stop asking


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## barry richardson (Jul 1, 2018)

A guy from where I grew up and my relatives live in Missouri has a side business making yard log signs out of hedge, does pretty well at it, and it seems about half the homes around there have one in their front yard. 





this is not his work, just a sample I pulled off the web, but very similar. he carves the logs green with a chainsaw and a saws-all. He lets me pick through his scraps when I come by...

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## Mark. (Jul 2, 2018)

After seeing the Beautiful carving, I am left speechless. That doesn't happen very often. When we step back & look at all of what is possible to be done with wood, how can we not Love the sight of a Forest, & the Treasures that lies with in.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mark. (Jul 2, 2018)

When I grow up, I want to be a Wood Worker

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Rocking RP (Jul 29, 2018)

I've found that the few things I have made from Osage has darkened with age. What started out as very yellow is now a rich darker honey color. I really like working with it on the lathe.

Reactions: Agree 1


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