# Bookmatch jointing



## Texasstate (Dec 28, 2017)

Can someone help me ?

Trying to find out the best way to joint these two pieces of beeswing eucalyptus together?

Any information would be appreciated


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## Mike1950 (Dec 28, 2017)

jointer and glue works on 1/4" maple- and they look the same now as when I did them


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## Rich P. (Dec 28, 2017)

It would be best to run them through a jointer to flatten the long middle section. You could then glue them if you do not need a strong joint or find someone with a biscuit joiner for something a little stronger
Rich P.


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## brown down (Dec 29, 2017)

Rich P. said:


> It would be best to run them through a jointer to flatten the long middle section. You could then glue them if you do not need a strong joint or find someone with a biscuit joiner for something a little stronger
> Rich P.



biscuit jointers offer zero strength, a solid glue joint should never come apart if you have two square flat edges. 

If you don't have a jointer you can make a jig up for the table saw but I highly recommend a jointer or using a hand plane to get the edges perfect. I run them down my jointer and then finish them off to get the knife marks out with a hand plane


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## Rich P. (Dec 29, 2017)

A biscuit joint is stronger than a regular glue joint without a doubt. Running a bead of glue down the joint and into biscuit slots adds more surface area for the glue and is stronger. The biscuits also expand once the glue is applied making a firmer and stronger joint. Just saying


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## Don Ratcliff (Dec 29, 2017)

If you use a jointer make sure the knives a sharp, you have a couple knots that are going to get hit. Perhaps hit them with some thin ca before you work the wood so it provides a little protection from having a blowout.


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## Mike1950 (Dec 29, 2017)

Euc

Reactions: Like 1 | EyeCandy! 1


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## Texasstate (Dec 29, 2017)

Wow that pretty light color for eucalyptus

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike1950 (Dec 29, 2017)

Texasstate said:


> Wow that pretty light color for eucalyptus


oh it is euc stuff is hard


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## Mr. Peet (Dec 29, 2017)

Texasstate said:


> Wow that pretty light color for eucalyptus



Justin,

I'm surprised the edge was not trued up before split-ripping. That would have saved time. Now you need to try jointing the edges and matching them back up. Very sharp tooling will help. If a joint is small, I've cheated and used my brothers big belt sander. Sometimes it works great, other times the joint just doesn't mesh. For guitars, I've seen square face joints like Mike mentioned and doweled square face joints. I have not seen biscuit joints used, but maybe some do. I've also seen Ibanez rip one side slightly smaller to offset for a tongue and groove joint to end up with a balanced book matched face.

Beautiful piece of eucalyptus, River red gum I guess from the label. As for Mike's piece, also sweet. Justin, there are hundreds of species of eucalyptus trees and thus many, many shades of color available. I have about 30 species worth in the xylarium, not even a dent....

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike1950 (Dec 29, 2017)

Mr. Peet said:


> Justin,
> 
> I'm surprised the edge was not trued up before split-ripping. That would have saved time. Now you need to try jointing the edges and matching them back up. Very sharp tooling will help. If a joint is small, I've cheated and used my brothers big belt sander. Sometimes it works great, other times the joint just doesn't mesh. For guitars, I've seen square face joints like Mike mentioned and doweled square face joints. I have not seen biscuit joints used, but maybe some do. I've also seen Ibanez rip one side slightly smaller to offset for a tongue and groove joint to end up with a balanced book matched face.
> 
> Beautiful piece of eucalyptus, River red gum I guess from the label. As for Mike's piece, also sweet. Justin, there are hundreds of species of eucalyptus trees and thus many, many shades of color available. I have about 30 species worth in the xylarium, not even a dent....



a good glue joint is sufficient- dowels and biscuits might help to line up But really add not or very little strength. You could use a good rip blade to create a glue joint. I agree there are a lot of different colored euc trees/lumber.


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## Texasstate (Dec 29, 2017)

Thanks guys the jointer proved to work well with this job !

I was just scared it would have a lot of tear out cause these are quite thin.

Luckily like @Mike1950 said this stuff is REALLY hard

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike1950 (Dec 29, 2017)

Texasstate said:


> Thanks guys the jointer proved to work well with this job !
> 
> I was just scared it would have a lot of tear out cause these are quite thin.
> 
> Luckily like @Mike1950 said this stuff is REALLY hard



I joint the 1/4" maple on jointer- If they are difficult I just clamp together and do both at once

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Texasstate (Dec 29, 2017)

Wow now that’s an idea!!!! 
@Mike1950 I knew I talked to you for some reason!!!

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Funny 1


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## brown down (Dec 29, 2017)

https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/are-biscuits-strong-enough/


Rich P. said:


> A biscuit joint is stronger than a regular glue joint without a doubt. Running a bead of glue down the joint and into biscuit slots adds more surface area for the glue and is stronger. The biscuits also expand once the glue is applied making a firmer and stronger joint. Just saying



Here's one out of many articles pertaining to this joint. It's really for
Alignment only. I haven't used a biscuit in years and have never had a joint fail just using glue especially something as thin as these. Glue is stronger then the wood itself so a proper fitted edge to edge joint will hold for years!



https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/are-biscuits-strong-enough/

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike1950 (Dec 30, 2017)

brown down said:


> https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/are-biscuits-strong-enough/
> 
> Here's one out of many articles pertaining to this joint. It's really for
> Alignment only. I haven't used a biscuit in years and have never had a joint fail just using glue especially something as thin as these. Glue is stronger then the wood itself so a proper fitted edge to edge joint will hold for years!
> ...



I only use mine for face frames on cabinets- pretty quick and handy for that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## brown down (Dec 30, 2017)

Mike1950 said:


> I only use mine for face frames on cabinets- pretty quick and handy for that.



Yup they def have a purpose and are a handy tool to have around for
Certain jobs but no way would trust them for anything other then alignment.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Mike1950 (Dec 30, 2017)

brown down said:


> Yup they def have a purpose and are a handy tool to have around for
> Certain jobs but no way would trust them for anything other then alignment.



I agree- but handy for face frames. Only thing I use it for. I tried once to use on 2 bookmatched slabs for alignment but after thoroughly frustrating myself- just did it the ol fashioned way -never again

Reactions: Agree 1


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## brown down (Dec 30, 2017)

Mike1950 said:


> I agree- but handy for face frames. Only thing I use it for. I tried once to use on 2 bookmatched slabs for alignment but after thoroughly frustrating myself- just did it the ol fashioned way -never again



What do you use just glue? Yea I've had the same issues prob them
Sliding or pulling the boards up or down?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike1950 (Dec 30, 2017)

brown down said:


> What do you use just glue? Yea I've had the same issues prob them
> Sliding or pulling the boards up or down?


good tight joint and glue- it works


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## brown down (Dec 30, 2017)

Mike1950 said:


> good tight joint and glue- it works



Same here when you think about the beautiful pieces of furniture our fore fathers made simply with hand tools and glue and very limited hardware says a lot and is impressive. I've learnt a lot over the years about traditional jointery and love building furniture with as limited amount of hardware as possible.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## woodtickgreg (Dec 30, 2017)

I too just use biscuits for alignment, not for strength. I think they do make a large glue up like a table top much easier, helps to keep everything flatter so there is not as much cleanup and flattening to do.


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## vegas urban lumber (Dec 30, 2017)

Mr. Peet said:


> Justin,
> 
> I'm surprised the edge was not trued up before split-ripping. That would have saved time. Now you need to try jointing the edges and matching them back up. Very sharp tooling will help. If a joint is small, I've cheated and used my brothers big belt sander. Sometimes it works great, other times the joint just doesn't mesh. For guitars, I've seen square face joints like Mike mentioned and doweled square face joints. I have not seen biscuit joints used, but maybe some do. I've also seen Ibanez rip one side slightly smaller to offset for a tongue and groove joint to end up with a balanced book matched face.
> 
> Beautiful piece of eucalyptus, River red gum I guess from the label. As for Mike's piece, also sweet. Justin, there are hundreds of species of eucalyptus trees and thus many, many shades of color available. I have about 30 species worth in the xylarium, not even a dent....



that red gum beeswing moves so much the bookmatched faces were probably nice and true before drying. i had one log slabbed shrank a full inch over a 3 foot length, and splits like crazy. beautiful though. we have a hybrid with a willow shaped leaf and box bark in our landscaping here in vegas that is nearly always beeswing in the first six foot of trunk

a change in the relative humidity in the room/air will cause it to swell/shrink substantially even after finishing

Reactions: Informative 1


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## rocky1 (Dec 30, 2017)

vegas urban lumber said:


> a change in the relative humidity in the room/air will cause it to swell/shrink substantially even after finishing



Many of your plants in arid climates are hydroscopic meaning they will readily absorb moisture from the air. Those characteristics carry into virtually everything about the plants. 

Honey is hydroscopic in itself, but honeys derived from desert plants are far worse than most. Many years ago the Federal Government set a price support on honey that exceeded fair market value on most honeys. They established the price across the board, at an average between bottled table grade, and wholesale bakery grade honeys. And, thus not knowing anything about what they were dealing with, the Federal Government wound up buying large quantities of iffy honeys. 

Out there in Arizona/Texas/New Mexico/Southern California they wound up with a large quantity of honey made from Mesquite, Yucca, and other desert plants that was absorbing moisture inside of sealed drums. Enough so, that the honey was fermenting, and would swell the drums up to the point that it was toppling the stacks of drums in their warehouse, (_we're talking 55 gallon drums, averaging 650- 700 lbs, stacked 3 and 4 high here_), and seriously confusing hell out of their Government Honey Experts!! They called upon the folks at Sioux Honey Association asking what in the world was going on. And, that was found to be the culprit. Wherein Sioux Honey had the opportunity to tell the government, maybe they should stay out of things they knew nothing about. 

Since the government had millions of pounds of inferior honey that they had purchased, for prices well above established market for such honey, much of it was packed and dumped into the school lunch program. Should any of you have any not so fond memories of nasty honey served in individual packets with your school lunch back in the late 70s early 80s, that would be why.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Texasstate (Dec 30, 2017)

Sorry but WHAT?


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## vegas urban lumber (Dec 30, 2017)

Texasstate said:


> Sorry but WHAT?


lol, WHAT to what?


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## Mr. Peet (Jan 1, 2018)

vegas urban lumber said:


> that red gum beeswing moves so much the bookmatched faces were probably nice and true before drying. i had one log slabbed shrank a full inch over a 3 foot length, and splits like crazy. beautiful though. we have a hybrid with a willow shaped leaf and box bark in our landscaping here in vegas that is nearly always beeswing in the first six foot of trunk
> 
> a change in the relative humidity in the room/air will cause it to swell/shrink substantially even after finishing



Gee Trev,

It would be really cool if you could find out what the hybrid is and maybe set a piece aside. I don't have a single piece of beeswing grained wood. Now that is sad...

Reactions: Agree 1


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