# Wormy burly mesquite, and a question for casters



## barry richardson (Mar 23, 2013)

Turned this from a dry chunk of mesquite firewood. I stopped at a big firewood operation in phoenix and they had literally a mountain of this stuff. Said they truck it up from Mexico. Makes for some interesting turnings, but very diry and dusty to turn. I think it would be very cool to somehow cast all the wormholes and voids with a colored resin in something like this..... but how could you do it? Would you have to cast it as a solid chunk? That would take a lot and that resin is pretty spendy. Im thinking it could be done by rough hollowing it, then putting somthing in the cavity to take up the space, a bladder of sorts, an old soccer ball or something.... am I out to lunch?
[attachment=21213]


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## Mrfish55 (Mar 23, 2013)

I would Inflate a balloon inside the vessel and then fill the voids.


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## Kevin (Mar 23, 2013)

Nice bowl very pretty. 

I would rough turn the inside, coat the insde with adhesive plactis sheet, then fill with polyurethane for 100% fill. After you've cast the voids finish turn the PU and plastic out.


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## Steelart99 (Mar 23, 2013)

What the heck, couldn't you just turn the inside and use blue tape on the inside ... I guess you'd have to be able to get your hand in there to do it ... but should work.

I'll tell ya what, stop by the firewood place, grab 5 or 6 pieces and ship them to me and I'll figure out the best method ...  I'll even remit ya the shipping cost. I can always use good firewood. 



There just had to be a smart a$$ comment ... and I think it was my turn.
Dan


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## hobbit-hut (Mar 23, 2013)

I have been thinking about this for several months. That is one of the reasons I am working on a large vacume chamber. I can presure cast 12''dia and 14'' high now. But I will be able to vacume cast 16'' dia x 26 high. There are several ways to do it and one that looks reasonable is to use a plastic bag inside and fill with sand. A baloon will be effected buy both vacume and pressure. It could also be done with expanding casting foam but sand is reusable and thus cheeper. The reason I started working in this direction is because I want to make the four and five foot segmented vaces and stab. and cast them in sections.


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## Steelart99 (Mar 23, 2013)

hobbit-hut said:


> I have been thinking about this for several months. That is one of the reasons I am working on a large vacume chamber. I can presure cast 12''dia and 14'' high now. But I will be able to vacume cast 16'' dia x 26 high. There are several ways to do it and one that looks reasonable is to use a plastic bag inside and fill with sand. A baloon will be effected buy both vacume and pressure. It could also be done with expanding casting foam but sand is reusable and thus cheeper. The reason I started working in this direction is because I want to make the four and five foot segmented vaces and stab. and cast them in sections.



Funny, I'd been thinking along the lines of stabilizing larger bowls and HFs after turning. I built a 24" cube vacuum chamber several years ago and was thinking about how to stabilize large items without needing many gallons of stabilizer. What I figured might work would to put the bowl in an box, pot or bag and filling the pot/box/bag and bowl inside with lead shot or similar and then pour in the stabilizer. That pot/box/bag would then be put in the vacuum chamber. Might need to experiment a bit to make sure the bowl inside is always fully covered with the stabilizer.

Dan


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## hobbit-hut (Mar 23, 2013)

Interesting Dan, One might consider a combination of materials. It the vac cham. was square. You could use foam with shot inside for weight to keep it from floating and vac. mold plastic and seal the foam and shot inside. Various molds could be made for the sizes and the resin needed would be greatly reduced. B


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## hobbit-hut (Mar 23, 2013)

hobbit-hut said:


> Interesting Dan, One might consider a combination of materials. It the vac cham. was square. You could use foam with shot inside for weight to keep it from floating and vac. mold plastic and seal the foam and shot inside. Various molds could be made for the sizes and the resin needed would be greatly reduced. But for casting I think sand inside a plastic bag inside the work piece is still the way to go.


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## barry richardson (Mar 23, 2013)

Steelart99 said:


> What the heck, couldn't you just turn the inside and use blue tape on the inside ... I guess you'd have to be able to get your hand in there to do it ... but should work.
> 
> I'll tell ya what, stop by the firewood place, grab 5 or 6 pieces and ship them to me and I'll figure out the best method ...  I'll even remit ya the shipping cost. I can always use good firewood.
> 
> ...



Yes you could, I've done it before, but,... tape does not adhere that well to rough wood, so it leaks through and the voids never fill, and you have to do it in batches cause you cant do it all at once, gravity will cause it to run out of the voids as you rotate the piece to do the other sides, and it is hard to get a good fill in the cracks and voids without vacuum...


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## barry richardson (Mar 23, 2013)

hobbit-hut said:


> I have been thinking about this for several months. That is one of the reasons I am working on a large vacume chamber. I can presure cast 12''dia and 14'' high now. But I will be able to vacume cast 16'' dia x 26 high. There are several ways to do it and one that looks reasonable is to use a plastic bag inside and fill with sand. A baloon will be effected buy both vacume and pressure. It could also be done with expanding casting foam but sand is reusable and thus cheeper. The reason I started working in this direction is because I want to make the four and five foot segmented vaces and stab. and cast them in sections.



Oh I like that idea! a sand filled bladder, noncompressable! But,,, I want to cast, not stabilize. So im thinking put the piece, with the sandbag inside, in a vacuum bag, fabricated for this purpose, along with the aluminite or whatever, and apply suction, kinda like doing an irregular veneer. My concern is that the resin would stick to the vacuum bag and ruin it. Maybe coat the bag with a release agent?


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## hobbit-hut (Mar 23, 2013)

barry richardson said:


> hobbit-hut said:
> 
> 
> > I have been thinking about this for several months. That is one of the reasons I am working on a large vacume chamber. I can presure cast 12''dia and 14'' high now. But I will be able to vacume cast 16'' dia x 26 high. There are several ways to do it and one that looks reasonable is to use a plastic bag inside and fill with sand. A baloon will be effected buy both vacume and pressure. It could also be done with expanding casting foam but sand is reusable and thus cheeper. The reason I started working in this direction is because I want to make the four and five foot segmented vaces and stab. and cast them in sections.
> ...



Yes that's correct when casting. The Alumilite has a release agent in a spray can. If you watch Turn Tex make the cherry pen from shavings he used it as a mold release.


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## manbuckwal (Mar 24, 2013)

hobbit-hut said:


> I have been thinking about this for several months. That is one of the reasons I am working on a large vacume chamber. I can presure cast 12''dia and 14'' high now. But I will be able to vacume cast 16'' dia x 26 high. There are several ways to do it and one that looks reasonable is to use a plastic bag inside and fill with sand. A baloon will be effected buy both vacume and pressure. It could also be done with expanding casting foam but sand is reusable and thus cheeper. The reason I started working in this direction is because I want to make the four and five foot segmented vaces and stab. and cast them in sections.



Lowell, looking at the dimensions you posted, are you able then, to stabilize a block 
5 1/2" x 12"x12" ?


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## hobbit-hut (Mar 24, 2013)

manbuckwal said:


> hobbit-hut said:
> 
> 
> > I have been thinking about this for several months. That is one of the reasons I am working on a large vacume chamber. I can presure cast 12''dia and 14'' high now. But I will be able to vacume cast 16'' dia x 26 high. There are several ways to do it and one that looks reasonable is to use a plastic bag inside and fill with sand. A baloon will be effected buy both vacume and pressure. It could also be done with expanding casting foam but sand is reusable and thus cheeper. The reason I started working in this direction is because I want to make the four and five foot segmented vaces and stab. and cast them in sections.
> ...



Yes, I could do that size. Alot of others could as well. The question is how deep would the resin penetrate something that thick. Several factors come into play. The type of wood and density being one. I think I would use vacume and presure if I was going to do something that thick.


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## manbuckwal (Mar 24, 2013)

hobbit-hut said:


> manbuckwal said:
> 
> 
> > hobbit-hut said:
> ...


Stabilizing is still new to me :lolol: I understand the concept, but haven't asked, for one, and haven't read anywhere here in WB where anyone was stabilizing bigger pieces and/or the cost effectiveness of it. Makes sense that u would achieve better penetration on smaller pieces......I'll dig a lil deeper in the processing threads and/or start a new one inquiring about the success/effectiveness of it.


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## DKMD (Mar 24, 2013)

If you're not already familiar with Alan Trout's work, it's worth a look. He does some gorgeous castings on a fairly large scale. I know he does demos on his methods, so you might shoot him an email.

http://www.tobinhillturning.com

I've seen his stuff up close and personal, and it's stellar!


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## Steelart99 (Mar 24, 2013)

Jon Kennedy said:


> Barry, if you need a large chamber for them let me know! i can make any size you need!, as far as filling in the worm holes, use black pepper, or coffee grounds with thin CA and return it, works great! as far as stabilizing large blocks prior to turning that also works, i would say that you would want to use a dry vac system than a wet vac system to get all the air out of something that big! and it can be done without pressure, i sell thin resin that will go in to large pcs with not much probelms, you need to give it good soak time!!! how big of pcs are you looking at stabilizing?? also to fill voids in stabilizing chambers so you dont use alot of resin, you want to use glass marbels and not lead shot! lead and resin dont work well together!!!!!!!! let me know if i can help you out with any stabilizing needs, i have resin,chambers, gauges, gaskets, and can help you out with 2 stage vacuum pumps! just a reminder!!!! the larger you go with square vacuum chambers the weaker they get!!! if possable stay with round chambers! they are 8 times stronger than square, and using acrylic chambers you can not leave pcs sit and soak for a very long time without chamber failure!
> 
> Jon



I had thought of marbles also, but they leave large voids and thus more resin required. How about steel or stainless steel tumbling shot? BBs? A combination of marbles and steel shot?
Dan


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## Kevin (Mar 24, 2013)

Steelart99 said:


> Jon Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Barry, if you need a large chamber for them let me know! i can make any size you need!, as far as filling in the worm holes, use black pepper, or coffee grounds with thin CA and return it, works great! as far as stabilizing large blocks prior to turning that also works, i would say that you would want to use a dry vac system than a wet vac system to get all the air out of something that big! and it can be done without pressure, i sell thin resin that will go in to large pcs with not much probelms, you need to give it good soak time!!! how big of pcs are you looking at stabilizing?? also to fill voids in stabilizing chambers so you dont use alot of resin, you want to use glass marbels and not lead shot! lead and resin dont work well together!!!!!!!! let me know if i can help you out with any stabilizing needs, i have resin,chambers, gauges, gaskets, and can help you out with 2 stage vacuum pumps! just a reminder!!!! the larger you go with square vacuum chambers the weaker they get!!! if possable stay with round chambers! they are 8 times stronger than square, and using acrylic chambers you can not leave pcs sit and soak for a very long time without chamber failure!
> ...



I've been using marbles also, and last week I found some smaller glass balls in the garden section of our hardware store which are even better. But I also thought of small ball bearings but figured they'd be too expensive. But that made me think of using pachinko balls. They are like small ball bearings. We used to have a couple big 3000 ball bags of them we brought back from Japan, but I shot them all with my wrist rocket over the years. I have n o idea of the cost now, probably expensive like everything else. They were made of steel back then but now they might be chrome plated or some other cheapness. Worth a look though I will do some research.


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## barry richardson (Mar 25, 2013)

DKMD said:


> If you're not already familiar with Alan Trout's work, it's worth a look. He does some gorgeous castings on a fairly large scale. I know he does demos on his methods, so you might shoot him an email.
> 
> http://www.tobinhillturning.com
> 
> I've seen his stuff up close and personal, and it's stellar!



Thanks for the link Doc, yes I have seen his work on AAW, just couldn't remenber his name. A great example of what I'm talking about!


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## barry richardson (Mar 25, 2013)

Jon Kennedy said:


> barry richardson said:
> 
> 
> > hobbit-hut said:
> ...


Im talking about casting, and something like this is what I'm going for (an Alan Trout piece BTW)
[attachment=21372]

I have had plenty of experience manually flooding and dabbing materials and resins into cracks to fill them, but this is a different animal. You wont get a seemless fill like this without some sort of vacuum or pressure method. You are correct, the excess casting gets turned away, that is why Im thiking of adapting a veneer bag for casting, instead of a ridgid walled container.


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## healeydays (Mar 25, 2013)

I love that vase.

Your big problem is how to contain the casting resin. I like the bladder for the inside and a heat shrink bag on the outside holding it all together. You could use release agent on the bladder and the outside bag will be a sacrificial bag. Heat shrink the outside bag to the piece, then pour your resin inside and pressurize the bladder. It should push the resin in the cracks.

Here's a place you can get turkey sized bags if you want to try it. They have bags all the way up to 18” x 32”

http://poultryshrinkbags.blogspot.com/2011/06/blank-3.html


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