# Pegs



## Graybeard (Jul 14, 2015)

I made a bench along a trout stream as a memorial for a dear friend that passed away. It's made out of 2 by 6 material and a 6 by 6 inch treated post. Originally I attached the 2 by 6 brace to the post with lag screws. It didn't take long for them to work loose and the seats would rock. I replaced those with a threaded rod with lock nuts on both ends. Well the bench is loose again.

I'm considering drilling a one inch hole through and driving a one inch oak dowel through and cut it off flush with each end. What do you think?

I wonder if I should put white glue on the dowel prior to driving in. I hope I'll be able to drive it in all the way and not get stuck half way through. Probably pound on a board instead of directly on the dowel.

Anxious to hear what you'd suggest.

Graybeard

Reactions: Like 1


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## Schroedc (Jul 14, 2015)

Sounds like it's getting loose from shrinkage? If that is the case I'd worry that one or both pieces might pull away from the peg and it'd rock, eventually breaking the peg?

If you have a picture of how it's put together that might help us all come up with ideas.


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## Kevin (Jul 14, 2015)

Your species and joinery choices it the key thing on an outdoor piece. In your extreme climates the species has to be bulletproof and so does your joinery. Ideally you want joinery that can survive without any fasteners at all.


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## Graybeard (Jul 14, 2015)

Here's some pictures



 



 



 

Hope this helps. As you can see I left some holes from the lags. Also I now have some bits that have long shanks so I don't have to drill part way on one side and try to meet up on the other.

Graybeard

Reactions: Like 2


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## Kevin (Jul 14, 2015)

That's a really nice bench - he would be proud of you.

I would let all the members into the posts - a depth of their thickness. Make you lower cut on a downward angle maybe 2 degrees so it will still hold the framing members tight to the post but cannot hold water. With carriage bolts the entire bottom of the members do not have to sit flush against the bottom of the posts lap joint. Don't do half laps because your framing members will tend to warp at that varying thickness due to their current thickness and also won't react to the weather like the rest of the member. Take it all out of the posts - they are thick enough not to overreact to expansion and shrinkage and freezing trapped water. With the design you have you won't have to cut anything new. The seat frames will be about 3" further apart but on such a short span no big deal, and you have enough overhang already not to be a problem.

I haven't used pressure treated pine in eons and don't really know what they are selling these days. Seems like I heard CCA was outlawed (?) but regardless, that wood will last 7 - 12 years (my WAG) before needing to be replaced. I don't know for sure because I'm not familiar with your environment. I would use what you have built, let the members in, then use carriage bolts with large thick washers (so they do not crush the wood fibers too much when you tighten because that will aide in the loosening factor) and call it good. Theoretically, you could use TBIII alone with no fasteners and be good, but pine (which is what that is I think) is so porous that the glue joint will not fail, but the awood right next to it will tear apart eventually and render the glue joint moot.

Tightening the carriage b olts once a year could be a yearly ritual to your friend, if you let them into the posts, you won't have to do near as much tightening IMO. If you ever have to rebuild the bench go back with black locust or ipe or something that is nearly impervious to rot. Ipe has become especially available and affordable for a project like that.

Reactions: Great Post 2


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## Kevin (Jul 14, 2015)

I exaggerated the angle a little so you could see it but here's what I mean . . . 



 

You can get rid of these scab supports once you let the members into the posts. 



 


You can get a lot fancier with the joinery too, but I just don't see a need.


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## Nature Man (Jul 14, 2015)

Beefy lag bolts can sometimes be effective in place of carriage bolts. Chuck


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## Tony (Jul 14, 2015)

Great tribute to your friend! Tony


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## TimR (Jul 14, 2015)

Very nice tribute piece David. I think the suggestion from @Kevin with the let-ins seems like a good one, something I may think about for outside furniture in the future.


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## ironman123 (Jul 14, 2015)

Yes, a memorable tribute for your friend.


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## Kevin (Jul 14, 2015)

TimR said:


> I think the suggestion from @Kevin with the let-ins seems like a good one, something I may think about for outside furniture in the future.



Tim the technique dates back at least to the Egyptians and may further. Don't trust Kevin, but trust millennia of woodworkers.


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## gman2431 (Jul 14, 2015)

Graybeard- As a passionate trout fisherman myself your tribute to your friend is absolutely amazing. I would be honored if someone did something half as nice when I take my last cast. Very cool.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Graybeard (Jul 15, 2015)

Kevin, thanks so much for that. We'll certainly go ahead with that plan.

Graybeard

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kevin (Jul 15, 2015)

David make sure to make the joinery as tight as possible. In plain terms, due to the grain orientation, the rebates in your posts are not going to shrink enough to matter across their height, but the width across your seat joists will, so that joint is going to open up over the years especially the first two. You can't stop that. But just make sure you cut the rebates in your posts as narrow as you can and still get the joists in (without having to hammer them in with a sledge that is too tight). I would also use TBIII liberally and avoid a polyurethane glue such as gorilla glue, for this application.


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## Graybeard (Jul 15, 2015)

Will do, thanks.
Dave
PS whats with the "and all the other Knights who say Ni"


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## Schroedc (Jul 15, 2015)

Graybeard said:


> Will do, thanks.
> Dave
> PS whats with the "and all the other Knights who say Ni"



@Kevin was throwing levers and mashing buttons to keep us all on our toes......


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## Kevin (Jul 15, 2015)

Schroedc said:


> @Kevin was throwing levers and mashing buttons to keep us all on our toes......



 Was that me? I thought it was Scott or maybe even you.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Schroedc (Jul 15, 2015)

Kevin said:


> Was that me? I thought it was Scott or maybe even you.



I haven't been able to find the levers on any of my Knightly searches.....

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Brink (Jul 15, 2015)

Kevin said:


> David make sure to make the joinery as tight as possible. In plain terms, due to the grain orientation, the rebates in your posts are not going to shrink enough to matter across their height, but the width across your seat joists will, so that joint is going to open up over the years especially the first two. You can't stop that. But just make sure you cut the rebates in your posts as narrow as you can and still get the joists in (without having to hammer them in with a sledge that is too tight). I would also use TBIII liberally and avoid a polyurethane glue such as gorilla glue, for this application.



Rebates, or, rabbets, are on edges or ends. Dados are a groove across grain.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kevin (Jul 15, 2015)

Of course Brink you are correct. And even if some of us do not always understand how to properly apply the best joinery in every situation, we do need to get the nomenclature correct at least.


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## Brink (Jul 15, 2015)

...and monkeys have tails

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Graybeard (Jul 25, 2015)

Finished the job using the lap Kevin drew up. Glued with titebond III and used 1/2 carriage bolts. Tight as a drum and solid as a rock. Thanks for the suggestions.

Sort of funny, there were two guys fishing, one from Mass. the other from Savannah, Georgia. We were complaining of the heat. All we got was a smile from the guy from Georgia.

Graybeard

Reactions: Funny 1


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