# Changing out a big motor on a big lathe.



## deltatango

I finally have bit the bullet and am changing out a big motor on one of my pattern maker's lathes.
I've been using this old lathe since the late 70's and modified it (jacked it up) around 1980.


 
The motor is a US Motors Vari-Drive motor with electrical sheave adjustment. 3 Phase with its own converter. It was on it when I got it from Crown Equipment in Manchester, NH in the mid-70's.


 
I don't know how they got it in the steel channel cage, and I don't know how I got it out of there back in 1979. My father was a good friend of the vice president of US Motors and we got it out of there and shipped it off. About a month later, back the motor came all brand spanking new inside, but crusty as ever on the outside. Was told that that's how it goes when doing "government work", LOL.



The last time I used it, the main belt was slipping at the slowest speed, which is where I need the low speed and torque for the columnar sculptures I make. I got in there and checked it out, and sure enough, the belt has become stiff and brittle and shiny where it wouldn't pull at low speed. It's a huge job to change the belt out, so I made the decision to change the motor out after some 36+ years of using it. I decided to go with a 3 HP PM DC motor and a custom drive. Getting the motor out of the cage by myself has proved to be a chore, however.


 
Getting the motor and cage down off the bottom of the ways was not too bad, but getting the motor out of the cage has proved to be a "rat killin'" as they say in the South. I had to cut one of the top ribs and eventually, using two chain hoists I wrangled it out of the cage, and have been moving on.


 
After a whole lot of looking, I found an Emerson 3 HP DC motor - permanent Magnet, 180 VDC.
When I got it, there was a tag on it that said Baldor. Everything is Baldor spec, and it's about a $2500 motor new. This Emerson was $250.00 new on Ebay - buy it now. So pretty much unbelievable.
I got it out and checked it out thoroughly and the fan shroud was busted a little on the bottom, and the motor foot had a funky bend in it. I took the foot off and wanted it back into shape, cold blacksmith style.
I had a Minarik 5 HP controller - pretty much a rare thing and I tested it. Worked beautifully, but I've decided to mount a tachometer generator to give the controller feedback for greater speed regulation.



In all my junk, I had a C-face mount DC tach-gen, and surprisingly there were drilled holes on the motor housing, that would thread 3/8" to match the bolt pattern on the tach-gen. My "hack" would work, but it took a little bit of doing. I machined a 5/8" keyed shaft down to 1/2" diameter to fit inside the motor end housing shaft that normally ran a fan, and fitted the tach-gen with shaft spacers from McMaster Carr, along with 3/8" threaded studs and lock washers and nuts.



It's a TEFC (Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled) motor, but the fan isn't necessary for the kind of duty I'll be using it for. If the lot or seems to be heating unreasonably, I'll just mount a separate fan near the end.

I'll have to cut the shaft off sticking out, but I'm waiting to see if I might want to use it for anything else, like a tachometer, or whatever. Got a new smaller 3 groove pulley so I have a bit more power on the low end, and hacked a conduit for the tach-gen wires to the motor wiring box.



 



 

Next uploads will be regarding the controller.

Reactions: Way Cool 8


----------



## deltatango

Next, I am building a custom controller, using a Minarik chassis mount drive. I'm using a SECO case that has a 2 HP drive in it. The case is more valuable to me that the controller, which will be available as a chassis mount unit in the future. It's a nice case, and is basically wash down duty with a good rubber gasket. (Means no dust).


 


 
Next enlarge holes for water-tight connectors:


 
Then remove the Seco Drive and replace with the Minarik drive. It is good up to 5 HP, so I changed the fuse sizes for 15 Amps and am installing the Minarik in the case.


 

Finally I cleaned up the cage, got it back mounted on the lathe, ready to begin making a new motor mount to accommodate the 3 HP DC motor.


 

More to come as I get it done.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 9


----------



## Mike1950

Way cool lathe

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 2


----------



## woodtickgreg

You absolutely have to do a video of this thing running when it's done!
Very cool.

Reactions: Agree 4


----------



## deltatango

OK - deal - I'll do a video of it running with the new motor.

Reactions: Like 2 | Way Cool 1


----------



## ripjack13

This....is....awesoooooooooommmmmmmme !!!

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## woodtickgreg

deltatango said:


> OK - deal - I'll do a video of it running with the new motor.


----------



## barry richardson

That's awesome! Thanks for posting, wish I had your expertiese. Then I would consider getting my own monster dinosaurs lathe....


----------



## deltatango

It is a dinosaur, for sure. Buuuuutttttt.... they just don't make castings like that anymore.
Castings like that mean waaaaaaaay less vibration.
Turn a 2 foot diameter, 7 foot long log 1,000 - 1,500 lbs, and it makes a huuuuuge difference.
Monster dinosaur huge difference, lol.
As far as expertise, hmmmm, don't try this at home, right? LOL.

The very first time I turned on it, I wished I had the expertise I have now, heh heh.
Even after 35 + years working with it, it has to be treated like that first day - with a whole lot of respect.


----------



## Mike1950

I love this old gear- do not like working on it but they built to last
Here is one-Mark probably knows a lot more about it. 1944 look at the size of that motor... Now it IS set up differently then yours -Why??

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## deltatango

Mainly because it's a Walker Turner type lathe.They were used by pattern makers and often found in trade schools. These were very popular because of the smoothness achieved from turning directly off the motor shaft.
The reason it is set up differently is because my lathe was originally a line shaft driven lathe. It pre-dates that one in the picture by 100 years + before electric motors were invented.

Reactions: Way Cool 1


----------



## Mike1950

deltatango said:


> Mainly because it's a Walker Turner type lathe.They were used by pattern makers and often found in trade schools. These were very popular because of the smoothness achieved from turning directly off the motor shaft.
> The reason it is set up differently is because my lathe was originally a line shaft driven lathe. It pre-dates that one in the picture by 100 years + before electric motors were invented.



So yours is 1800's maybe mid??

Cool- if it could talk. Thanks


----------



## deltatango

Yeah, probably so Mike. That lathe in the photo, by any chance is it an Oliver?


----------



## Mike1950

deltatango said:


> Yeah, probably so Mike. That lathe in the photo, by any chance is it an Oliver?


 It is- craigslist ad. I do not turn but love looking at old gear..


----------



## deltatango

Bet it's an old Yates American lathe - they had big motor heads - some of them.
I like seeing them too - they're cool.


----------



## Mike1950

deltatango said:


> Bet it's an old Yates American lathe - they had big motor heads - some of them.
> I like seeing them too - they're cool.



1944 Oliver- ad says it is set up to turn 6' outboard.... Yikes


----------



## deltatango

OK, I was right in an earlier guess. Yeah it would do 6' outboard. So can a lot of lathes, but I hate turning outboard. I have a pattern maker's lathe that will do 8' inboard. Has a keyed floor and a moveable pedestal tool rest that's as big as most big lathes. 

Nice to be able to work that big inboard.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## JohnF

That's an oliver in Mikes pic. A 20-B if I remember right. I used to have one, That direct drive motor is a 2hp DC motor with an inverter as big as a suitcase that I hung on a wall above it. Very good speed control and no shortage of torque.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Mike1950

8'- WOWWW picture when you have a chance- just me but this thread should be in the old iron @woodtickgreg


----------



## deltatango

Inboard (left,) will do 8' diameter. Outboard (right) will do 8 1/2'.

Reactions: EyeCandy! 1 | Way Cool 5


----------



## JohnF

Wow Mark, A trip thru your shop would be like winning a trip to the superbowl, only better.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## woodtickgreg

Mike1950 said:


> 8'- WOWWW picture when you have a chance- just me but this thread should be in the old iron @woodtickgreg


If I move it then it won't be a work in progress thread, it will just be a part of old iron review thread. I think it would be better at this time to just let him keep updating it. Maybe when it's all done he can post a few pics in the old iron thread.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## deltatango

Thanks Greg. Appreciate it. Didn't know I was in the wrong pew....

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## woodtickgreg

deltatango said:


> Thanks Greg. Appreciate it. Didn't know I was in the wrong pew....


Nah, your not. If you just posted pics then I would probably move it, but since your showing us some very interesting work on it we can just leave it here.


----------



## Mike1950

deltatango said:


> Thanks Greg. Appreciate it. Didn't know I was in the wrong pew....



No just Me Mark, I like being able to go there and look at old stuff in one spot. That lathe is one helluva machine. 8 1/2 ft is a big chunk of wood.


----------



## gman2431

amazing stuff!!


----------



## deltatango

More on wiring the controller. Started with an empty bench. It' always like this when doing electronics.j Just completely out of control, huge mess before you know it.



 

Getting there. Taking things slowly and carefully. Have installed a 4 pole 4 throw reversing switch. The simple looking toggle switch is deceptive. It's reversing not only the motor leads but the tach-gen leads simultaneously. Since the tach-gen must always have positive polarity to the motor, it's a must in order to have reversing. 



 

Borrowing a little here, a little there, installing switches and the potentiometer, etc. , it's critical to test after each step. 
Thankfully holes were pre-drilled in the Warner case. They just covered them over for the application that was in there prior to my getting it. 



 

So I have the speed pot on top, the on off main power switch beneath, then the reversing switch at the bottom. I'll add start/stop NO/NC switches to run the start stop relays finally. After testing the reverse switch and putting a meter on it to confirm it's working, I'll switch the controller over to closed-loop 4 quadrant controll with tach-gen feedback. 
Once I'm convinced that's working correctly, I'll connect the on/off switches - relays. 
Then, I'll probably do a preliminary tuning of the controller- min/max speed and current limits, IR Comp, and torque adjustments. 
Then it's off to find a suitable mounting location on the lathe. It will be like starting over with a brand new machine, so will have to be extra careful. 

For anyone wondering, I chose the DC motor and controller over a VFD because the DC motor/controller combo gives the most torque at low speeds - it excells down there at low RPM's. 
Ultimately, normally, if purchased new, this system would be around $5,000 plus for the DC motor/controller, whereas a VFD (variable frequency drive) would be 1/4 to 1/5 that amount.

since I got lucky and found the 3 hp motor for $350 delivered, and had the controller and case (previous trade/purchases) I 'll still be under $500- $750 when all is said and done. 

More to come as I get more finished.

Reactions: Way Cool 4


----------



## deltatango

3HP Controller is finished. Tested every phase completely. Remote relay on off works. Tach-Gen works perfectly - not bad for a hack, lol. The 4 Pole 4 Throw toggle reversing switch works like a charm. Two poles reverse the positive and negative motor leads and the other two poles reverse the Tach-Gen leads. Since it's 4P4T all that happens simultaneously. Have to wait until the motors stops completely before reversing, but not a problem there. May put a safety cover over the reversing switch so nothing can happen inadvertently.


 

All in all a deceptively simple dust proof front face on a very tight gasketed case. The final wiring will take place once the motor is mounted and a place to mount the case is decided.
All in all I'm pretty happy with the controller motor combination. The proof will be in the turning however.


 
I would not have attempted this (particularly the tach-gen hack) without having had over 40 years of experience with DC permanent magnent motors and controllers and 4 quadrant closed loop systems. At any turn it seems easy to get stuck and then stymied by a difficult problem. I prefer Minarik controllers because they are robust and durable and have good tuning potential. In this case, if you're going to be dumb, you'd better be rich. There are two types of people that work with electronic controllers: those who use fuses and those who will....

Next it's on to the lathe and mounting the motor. 
More here when I get to that.

Reactions: Like 1 | Great Post 1 | Way Cool 3


----------



## woodtickgreg




----------



## Mike1950

I have an old delta scrollsaw That has had a DC motor and a Variac controller added onto it. It will adjust to where the blade barely goes up and down but with torque to cut. Will this be the same. Just curious...


----------



## deltatango

Yeah it will be very much the same Mike. It was spinning around 1 RPM this morning at the lowest speed. I'm hoping I can tune it to run even slower under load once I get it going.
With really sharp tools, certain areas that are difficult and tend to tear out can be soaked with a wet hot towel and cut with the tools I have at very low to sub fractional RPM's and make perfect finishes.
I use old pattern maker hook-type tools on a tool holder that is powered as well. I am really pushing for the low RPMs because my cutting process likes it. So do I - I've become chicken about spinning up
1500 LB logs and standing in the middle of them. I used to use the Peter Child technique of holding the tool handle in the hip socket, but at this age, that's a no-no anymore.
Deep roughing cuts are no problem and can peel off 1/4" thick curls easily. It's the super fine shaving that works so well with my techniques so I'm hoping this new system delivers the goods.

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 1


----------



## deltatango

Thinking about just mounting the new motor way down low at the base of the platform and using link belts. My thinking is that the more weight as low to the ground, the better, and this motor weighs less than the old one. I want to keep the same shaft alignment, so the plan would be to cut the old belts and replace with link belts that are more vibration free.

Also thinking about using a 2" thick piece of oak or maple with carriage bolts going up and down into the motor and the platform whith some industrial rubber - heavy duty underneath the oak at the cage base to also dampen any vibration.

Reactions: Like 3 | Way Cool 1


----------



## deltatango

More progress. Been working on mounting the motor and it has been a real B%ll-buster. Mainly because it has meant being down on the floor rolling around with getting it bolted down. I decided to use a thick board to raise up the motor to the correct height in order to be able to reuse the belts. That was a big decision. Decided the other belts, the link belts make too much noise. I can always go to them in the future, but for now, thought I'd save money and just use the old ones again.
Fit a temporary board with powder post beetles in the base, first, then made a plywood template.





Fit the temporary board. Next, I got out the straps and mountain climbing gear and did a test run with fitting the motor where it actually goes.





Once I got all my measurements and test fitting out of the way, I found a piece of 3/4" thick aluminum to use as an intermediate plate. The idea is to secure the board to the base and secure the motor to the plate. It meant drilling and tapping 8 holes. Fortunately I have a Bridgeport milling machine and it made relatively quick work out of the job. Auto tapping is a really nice thing. It's rough on an old man doing it by hand.





Next I test fitted the motor and the plate. I'm not planning on repainting the lathe or making things shiny and new. I mainly want the lathe to come back functional in very short order, and it's taking too long already. So no grinding the plate other then what is necessary, and no finishing the wood, etc. Just functional.



 

A quick overview of what we call "the front studio." Man it is getting crowded in there. I've been doing a lot of vacuum stabilizing and cutting up a lot of wood mainly because it's air conditioned and comfortable. I wheel the oven and the 5 gallon vacuum chamber in and out as needed. Mostly this space is supposed to be machine shop only, but it gets crowded at times. The ground floor is 4,000 sq ft. 2 Floors above it makes 10,000 sq feet total. That adds up to a lot of running around to get things.



 

Getting some blanks ready for stabilization. Doing some large sizes this time. Actually they are cooking as I write this. Spalted burl 3" x 3" and 4" x 4".
You might notice I don't have big lights in my studio. The large windows face north and they provide just about all the light I need. I'm a big fan of natural light.



 

Back to the lathe. Made a new bottom board out of Sycamore and got the 3/4" aluminum plate mounted. Again, aesthetics not that critical other than to do something that will look like it's been there a while after a while, hence the old aluminum plate. It's bolted all the way up through from the bottom and acts as a clamp for the board beneath. It has tapped holes for the motor mounts up front.



 

At last. Thank goodness it's mounted at last. Man oh man - this liked to kick my butt, no kidding. Up and down, this side, that side, this hoist, that hoist, one side to another. Too tight to get a proper allen wrench in there, too tight for belts. Make a riser plate. Plate is too tight for bolt holes, back and forth. It just wiped me out.
But finally, I got everything torqued down (I don't mean that literally other than an Abom79 good wrench pull on everything) and the motor just sits there like it's been there from day one looking easy as pie like it was a simple job. I'm sure it would have been a simple job for a lot of you, but for this old man it was pushing it.
Hey what do you know, belts have perfect tension. How about that. If the board shrink, it will mean just tightening the nuts and bolts. If the belts grow loose, the riser plate can be changed. Seems like it oughta work.



 



 

So now, finally, that is done. Old motor out, new motor in. Next comes the controller mounting. That looks like it's going to be a job too.
Stay tuned for the next installment of big lathe, big motor, big job. 
"Thanks for watching"

Reactions: Great Post 1 | Way Cool 5


----------



## woodtickgreg

That's a great looking shop you have there, I wish I had room for a bridgeport. I watch aboms vids too!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


----------



## deltatango

woodtickgreg said:


> That's a great looking shop you have there, I wish I had room for a bridgeport. I watch aboms vids too!



Yeah Adam is great isn't he? Talk about some serious machining skills.
He's also getting pretty good at the barbecuing too.

Man, just move the washer and dryer out and voila, room for a Bridgeport!

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Kevin

Mark, there was a series several years ago on the history channel before it became the reality channel, call Dogfights. It only stayed on for two seasons because of political pressure applied by other nations as silly as it seems.

Anyway, in one of the Vietnam episodes called Hell over Hanoi , one of the F-4 Phantom pilots describe what it was like to fly one. I don't remember his words verbatim but I can get a pretty close. He said that when you crawled into that big beast with those big J-79 engines growling you knew that you had just strapped on a very masculine piece of equipment. That's what your lathe reminds me of, a very masculine piece of equipment!

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 2


----------



## woodtickgreg

deltatango said:


> Yeah Adam is great isn't he? Talk about some serious machining skills.
> He's also getting pretty good at the barbecuing too.
> 
> Man, just move the washer and dryer out and voila, room for a Bridgeport!


I have a nice little powermatic/burke millright that I can take apart to get in the basement a piece at a time, it's a nice knee mill kinda like a bridgeport.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## deltatango

That sounds like a great series Kevin, I'll have to look for it.
As far as the lathe goes, yeah it's like that all right.
When I used it the first time, my father was there, and we had just gotten the big old US motors Vari-drive back from being refurbished. I started the lathe and it growled to life, and as I revved it up it just sounded like those big big round engine airplanes - smooth and deep gutteral sounds. It was really intimidating at first, but my father wasn't phased. He said just jump in there, you have to get past the fear and tame the beast.
Easy for him to say - he had run big Bullard Turrett lathes swinging up to 8 feet horizontally. To change speeds you literally kicked shift levers forward and back.

I expect this lathe will be much more tame now with this motor. But I have no doubt it will scream too if need be. I've already set the max speed limit pot on the controller. It could fly away if it had the chance.

I've always thought of this lathe as a masculine machine as well, particularly something to have a great deal of respect for when running. It's not super huge as far as these things go, but it's big, big enough to demand respect. But all lathes require respect in my book.

I'm really looking forward to putting it through its paces, and seeing how it compares to when it had the old motor. I hope it just marches on without a hitch.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## deltatango

woodtickgreg said:


> I have a nice little powermatic/burke millright that I can take apart to get in the basement a piece at a time, it's a nice knee mill kinda like a bridgeport.



Oh yeah, that sounds like a sweet machine. Going down stairs... ugh.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## deltatango

OK - The Finale. Finished hooking up the controller and did a test run this AM just before lunch.
Had taken another "pony motor" off and began an overall cleanup of the lathe, removing past wiring and anything that doesn't belong.


 
Began a brushing down of the lathe, then a little light oiling, just some vernal cleanup and maintenance.




 

I added an ON" light this AM and made some major decisions about wiring.
Decided that I want to be able to move the controller and on/off switch box from one end to the other end of the lathe, so found a long generator cord with hubbell twist-lock fittings and cut the cord and wired in one side to the controller and the other to the lathe, using water-tight connectors.



 

The wiring was straightforward, just using color code for the motor plus and minus (A1, A2) Red and Black, and then using Green and white for the Tach Gen plus and minus leads. Green is darker so that is black, and white is lighter so that is red. It's easy to get confused with this stuff, but I mostly rely on color coding to keep me out of trouble. But then I always ring the leads out by checking ohms with a meter.
Stripped the rubberized cover back and fed the wire through the watertight connector on the motor's junction box.



 

Next I striped the wire ends and paired them up correctly. I always twist smaller wires around bigger ones like a vine - it helps eliminate noise, plus it keeps the wires from becoming untangled. I thought I would tape the wire connectors but decided I had them good and tight, so I omitted that step. Hope I'm not sorry.



 

Here is the cord completely finished on the motor side:


 

I like the idea of building the motor/controller so that they plug/unplug together for several reasons. Mainly if the lathe gets moved (and I sometimes do that) it can easily be unplugged and moved. Also, if there's another lathe that has a big motor on it, the controller could be shared. Controllers are incredibly expensive and custom built ones like what I've just done run into the thousands, and are usually not seen. Off the shelf controllers are the way to go, but since I added the tach-gen for greater regulation, I included the 4pole 4throw reversing switch - something they don't do with off the shelf controllers

Also, most DC controllers above 2 HP are normally chassis mount. That's beginning to change because of market demands.
So, OK, plugged in, and turned on and voila, we have speed. Any speed, all speed. Works perfectly and I do mean absolutely perfectly.
Notice the bowl blank spinning on the inboard side of the lathe.



 

For now I'm just laying the controller on the shelf that was previously used for the pony motor. I don't need to use this lathe to turn outboard since I have the big one that will do over 8' in diameter inboard. This lathe is just a good all around bowl turning lathe and a great spindle lathe for 2' diameter pieces, whatever length.
My lathes are located directly under a 40 foot overhead I beam. The huge pattern maker's lathe is on one side of the studio and this pattern maker's lathe is on thee opposite side, right next to 12 feet of sliding glass doors that open to 8' x 8'. I could go on about how my hoist trailer matches up on the outside, etc., but that's for another time. Right now, the neat thing is that the motor swap out is successful. A lot of work but well worth it.

So here's how it works out, looking at the picture below. Speed adjust potentiometer is at the top. Main on / off switch is below. Power on light is beneath on/off.
At the bottom is the reversing switch, only to be thrown when power to the lathe is off. The lathe motor on/off relays are controlled by the wired remote pendant switch sitting on the lathe goes wherever I want it to, and stays with me when turning. It works real easy both for on and off. The off is raised so that it can be hit quickly. The green on is flush so it won't be accidentally pushed.



 

So talking again about the controller, I chose DC because of the tremendous torque at low end RPM's. I did a little test, and no way can I stop or slow down the shaft at the bottom end RPM's. The beauty of it is that it can be tuned for minimum speed and axel and decal and top speed and torque. I have tuned it so that the lathe powers up not too fast, but also not too slow to be sitting around waiting for it. For example, if a 2 foot diameter log is starting from off, the controller ramps up the speed gradually, it doesn't just snap on to full RPM's. This is critical to eliminate stress on holding systems being used and most importantly, to give enough time to get out of the way and slow the lathe down while the log is coming up to speed. If the lathe begins to shimmy or shake or vibrate too much, it gives a little warning before reaching top speed.





So there it is. Lathe running, motor working, controller perfect. I love it when a plan comes together. I'll show a photo of the lathe from the back side in the next post.
The only thing left to do is to figure out a simply tie up system for the extra cord, and I'm ready to start rocking' and rollin' again.

Reactions: Way Cool 6


----------



## deltatango

And here's the finished lathe from the back side.

Reactions: Way Cool 6


----------



## Sprung

This was very cool to watch, Mark. Thanks for sharing it with us!

And I can imagine that any one of us could easily get "lost" in your shop for at least a whole day checking things out...

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## deltatango

I promised Greg a video, so I guess I'm not done yet.

I get lost for days checking things out. I still can't find the last guy that asked where the bathroom is...

Reactions: Funny 7


----------



## woodtickgreg

That is such a cool lathe, and you did a great job with the motor upgrade and especially the controller. I to have used wires of different colors to get a job done, but I usually re color code the wires either with colored electrical tape or permanent marker. I can't wait to see the video of this bad boy running! Very cool Mark

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


----------



## deltatango

Thanks Greg. I usually tape the wires with number tape and provide a corresponding schematic, but in this case it was fairly straight forward with just two sets of plus and minus voltage leads, particularly as each set was different wire sizes. I've been accused of keeping too much in my head and not enough on paper.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## barry richardson

What a beauty! Did you rough out that blank with an angle grinder or chainsaw?

Reactions: Thank You! 1


----------



## deltatango

barry richardson said:


> What a beauty! Did you rough out that blank with an angle grinder or chainsaw?



Thank you Barry, I'm glad you like it. I have to agree with you, that old lathe is just a beautiful machine. It's a pleasure to work on and work with. 

The Blank was roughed out many years ago with a chainsaw. It's been kicking around the studio and still has the faceplates on it.


----------



## deltatango

About old cast iron versus modern lathes.

One thing aside from the old cast iron, is the diameter of the shaft and the morse taper #4 in the headstock and tailstock. This enables the use of some very heavy duty tooling from machine lathes. The 2 1/2" diameter shaft is amazingly strong and vibration free. I've looked at modern lathes, (and we all know which brands they are), and none of them have large shafts and big thrust bearing blocks like this one. These size differences make a lot of difference to me in the work I do. I think the modern lathes such as Oneway, Powermatic, Robust, and a few others that make larger lathes are excellent, and I wouldn't mind having one (in fact we have a Powermatic Model 90 in the Studio). 

For most turning, modern lathes are fine. When it comes to turning large bowls or columns up to 24" in Diameter it comes down to preference. It involves the pucker factor. Do you trust the lathe to handle the weight? Some logs weigh in excess of 1500 to 2000 lbs when wet that turn held by actually very small points between centers. Is the tailstock capable of handling the weight? Does the headstock accommodate a large enough center to drive the log? Does the controller have the torque at low end to pull all that weight under load.
Can you trust the controller won't over-rev to compensate for the load put on the motor which might speed up the revolutions dangerously? Will the log eventually spin freely once turned round, and will the lathe handle the enertia at higher speeds. Do you trust the lathe enough to stand in front, in the middle of 1/2 -3/4 of a ton revolving at serious RPM's? Hence the pucker factor. It takes nerve to stand in the middle of a big log turning on a big lathe, and the critical element is being able to do so expecting no mechanical failure. Just because a large piece may fit on a modern lathe with a smaller shaft and smaller tailstock, and the motor will pull it, doesn't mean it will withstand certain interrupted cuts that may jar the log or possibly jam it. Knowing how to deal with large logs is critical and this kind of work should not be attempted without knowledge and experience. I have worked up to the large sizes over the years, and safety has been a major concern. I have broken tool rests and the tailstock, as large and heavy duty as they were. Things can be fixed, but less so when it comes to the human body. Just some food for thought. Big lathes require knowledge and skill. Everything takes way more time to do, Everything is heavier. Rigging becomes involved. Stamina is required.

But oh boy is it fun.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## pinky

Great Thread!

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


----------



## deltatango

Well, I finished the second controller for the carriage motor.
I ended up having to machine the chassis - very risky- but it worked and it fit into the case I scrounged up:





The carriage controller is small enough to fit in one hand - a little hefty, but not bad.









So when you start out on a project like this, you just never know if it will actually work as planned.
I feel very fortunate that everything has worked out well. I'm pleased with the results.

-Mark

Reactions: Way Cool 2


----------



## woodtickgreg

Great video! I loved the rythem section. Very cool cutter too. Thanks for posting the vid, I really enjoyed it.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


----------



## deltatango

Glad you liked it Greg - the cutter is a 3D model/manufacture/heat treat/anneal made from an original that came with my old big pattern maker's lathe - the one in the background that will do 8'6" in diameter.
It wasn't as sharp as I would have liked - took it out for a test spin as well. My old one will shave the whiskers off a bat. This one will too once I get it sharpened and thinned up a little.

Reactions: Way Cool 1


----------



## Kevin

That was fantastic. Very creative and yes the lathe sounds were mesmerizing. My wife enjoyed the video as much as I did. I loved the natural sounds of the cutter and the iron singing faintly in the background. I never dabbled in the electronic side of drumming which never made sense to me since I had an electronics background, but I would like to one day. That was awesome thanks for letting us see it.

My wife asked _"What's he going to make with it?"_ and said simply _"Art"_.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## deltatango

Re-posting in honor and memory of Kevin. The piece being turned is a piece of FBE he sent me as a gift. I was so torn up about it I removed the video here.
This video will not be for everyone. I was testing the lathe and experimenting with a new tool which had not been properly dialed in or honed.
Always wanted to experiment with lathe sounds as potential music, and after discussions with Kevin (we were both drummers) I did this video:

*The Heart of a Lathe*

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 1


----------



## Tony

That is a great machine Mark! Kevin would be honored to see his beautiful FBE spinning on such a Nobel lathe. Did you finish the piece? Would love to see it! Tony


----------



## deltatango

Tony said:


> That is a great machine Mark! Kevin would be honored to see his beautiful FBE spinning on such a Nobel lathe. Did you finish the piece? Would love to see it! Tony



Kevin saw the video and his piece spinning on the lathe Tony (read his post above). Later, I turned three bowls in a row between centers and parted them and put them in a bin with the shavings and have left them there. They are developing some nice spalting since I've checked on them several times since then. Once they're dry I'll go back and finish them. I'm not in any hurry. Having them in the studio drying is fine for now. Some day I'll get back at them. Mark

Reactions: Like 2


----------

