# Osage Question



## Johnturner (Aug 30, 2014)

I have heard of Osage Orange and on WB I have heard of osage as a hedge. Is Osage Orange the same as Osage? Is it tree or a hedge?
Thanks
John


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## JR Parks (Aug 30, 2014)

John,
They are the same - just different colloquialisms-and many more. The tree is Maclura pomifera. More info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maclura_pomifera

Reactions: Like 2


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## Johnturner (Aug 31, 2014)

Thanks Jim -that helps!


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## Kevin (Aug 31, 2014)

John, I never use wikipedia because it is rife with errors and inaccuracies. I'm not saying the osage orange entry has any, it may be 100% accurate but I don't take chances with wikipedia. The Wood Database is a much safer bet for wood info.

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/osage-orange/

Reactions: Agree 2


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## JR Custom Calls (Aug 31, 2014)

Im not sure why they call it hedge... Its a regional thing. Around here, it's hedgeapple tree, but I call it hedge for the sake of simplicity. Back in the day, they used it to make fence rows, as the thorns kept the cattle from crossing it. Osage orange seems to be a northeast/Midwest designation. Some texans call it bois d arc...


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## Kevin (Aug 31, 2014)

It's called hedge because that's what the main use for the tree was before barbed wire. Osage seed was a hhuge business until barbed wire ended it abruptly. A few merchants from here made a small fortune shipping seeds all over the world. I live smack dab in the middle of where the tree originated. The farmers and ranchers had a saying about a hedge that was made by planting bois d' arc trees right beside each other to form a barrier for their land:

_"Horse high, hog tight, and bull stout."_

And anyone who's ever tried to get through a cluster of bois d' arc trees knows that's not an exaggeration at all. In the college town near me Professor Tarpley has 'written the book on it'. I have been meaning to post a thread for him I told him I would. You can buy his book through amazon but he prefers to get checks in the mail. I will have to find my copy and get his address. He's an interesting guy to talk to. Some 20 years ago or so he helped co-found the festival we have every September in Commerce, Texas called *The Bois d' Arc Bash*. It's a pretty big deal and bois d' arc enthusiasts come from all over the planet. It's a great time actually.

Here is his book *and link to it*. If you want to be an expert on Osage Orange, you'll never do it without first reading this book. It's the bible on the species.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Kevin (Aug 31, 2014)

JR Custom Calls said:


> Some texans call it bois d arc...



99.99% of Texans call it bois d' arc. I don't think I ever heard a native Texan call it anything else except quite a few do call it a horse apple tree, but they also know it is called bois 'd arc mainly.


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## JR Custom Calls (Aug 31, 2014)

I should get that book. I have plans to get some seed this fall and plant a bunch of trees this spring on the farm.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kevin (Aug 31, 2014)

Here is the review I wrote for the book on amazon:

_I cannot really add much to what Mr. Ainsworth has written in his great review about this wonderful book. I'm a woodworker, logger, and a sawyer. I also manufacture a woodworking jig and sell wood online sending it all over the planet. So when it comes to wood I'm more than a little versed about it. Before reading this book (that I was fortunate to get from Mr. Tarpley himself and who kindly signed it for me) I really thought I had a lot of knowledge about this distinctive and wonderful tree; I was sadly mistaken. Although I was born in Bonham, Texas and have now spent most of my adult life here in what is almost certainly the epicenter of where this tree first sprang forth, I soon realized I knew very little about as I began to read this book. By the time I had read just the first chapter I realized I knew relatively nothing about a tree of which I have logged and milled on my sawmill, by the score.

I agree with Mr. Ainsworth in his assessment that Mr. Tarpley "...could achieve the improbable and nearly impossible task of making a book about a tree compelling." Since I couldn't have put it better myself I did not try. If you have any interest in either the species fondly referred to as "Bodark" or even just history itself then you'll enjoy this fascinating read. Like all books of this genre their are some facts in the book I believe are somewhat inaccurate, but they do not detract from the overall work. For example, on page 20 of his book, Mr. Tarpley writes that Osage orange is "... the heaviest wood native to North America." and further that ".. when air dry, yields approximately forty-eight pounds to the cubic foot." This is not accurate in two ways. First, the EMC (air dried weight) of the wood in its native range is 57 lb cu. ft. not 48 but still, it is not the heaviest native hardwood. Texas Ebony is native to this region and though you'd be hard pressed to find a tree large enough to produce a cubic foot of wood, weighs an equivalent of 60 lbs. cu. ft.

These inaccuracies are negligible in the overall picture of what this body of work represents and especially inlight of the fact that this book is not meant to cover minute details about the specie's wood properties and characteristics, although it does do that to a degree as well. Bringing such a large body of information forth in one single volume on such an arcane topic, and with scarce few errors is a testament to Mr. Tarpley's writing skills and organizational expertise.

I highly suggest reading this book. I keep it handy as the go-to reference for anything to do with this, one of my favorite species of wood; Pecan may be the Texas state tree, but The state wood of Texas is Bois d' Arc!_

Reactions: Like 1 | Great Post 1


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## SENC (Aug 31, 2014)

Ordered... thanks, @Kevin! I love learning!

Reactions: Way Cool 1


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## Johnturner (Aug 31, 2014)

Thanks guys! How do you pronounce bois d' arc? Is it boys d'ark??


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## DKMD (Aug 31, 2014)

Bo dark


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## DKMD (Aug 31, 2014)

Or beau dark for those coon asses among us...

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


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## David Hill (Aug 31, 2014)

Nice discussion about Bois d'Arc, aka Horse Apple (although I've never seen one get eaten), also Hedge/Hedge Apple-- all Those I heard in central Texas where I grew up (plus some others that aren't nice). 
Pretty wood turns and sands nice, finishes well too.
Before importing it anywhere-- check to make sure that it's not listed as a noxious/pest species-- it is in some states.


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## Kevin (Aug 31, 2014)

David, they are called horse apples because although they are toxic to humans, horses love them. I have fed them to horses personally so I know this is true by experience - it is not book knowledge. My dad showed me how to feed a horse an apple and believe me, you want to have someone show you before you do it or you could lose some fingers or a hand.


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## GeauxGameCalls (Aug 31, 2014)

DKMD said:


> Or beau dark for those coon asses among us...



Hey man. Not nice! 

More like beaux dark!

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## JR Custom Calls (Aug 31, 2014)

Kevin said:


> because although they are toxic to humans,


This is something I've seen people say... but I've never seen a reputable source say this (please don't take that wrong... not saying you aren't a reputable source). I googled it, and there were some sites that said it was, but didn't have any affilliation with a college or other source of solid scientific data.

So.. since I haven't read the book (because I haven't ordered it just yet)... does Tarpley say that they are? Ultimately, I guess it doesn't mater... I don't plan on eating any. Just curious since I've seen people say both ways.


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## Kevin (Aug 31, 2014)

JR Custom Calls said:


> This is something I've seen people say... but I've never seen a reputable source say this (please don't take that wrong... not saying you aren't a reputable source). I googled it, and there were some sites that said it was, but didn't have any affilliation with a college or other source of solid scientific data.
> 
> So.. since I haven't read the book (because I haven't ordered it just yet)... does Tarpley say that they are? Ultimately, I guess it doesn't mater... I don't plan on eating any. Just curious since I've seen people say both ways.




I will fund this research. I will pay your wife $50 per minute for 11 minutes max to hold the camera from the time you take your first bite until you finish the apple. You have 10 minutes to eat the whole apple, which I will provide in person, unedited and you must swallow every bite in that time frame. No one has ever done this as far as I am aware. You could make history and be a WB legend.

I will build your casket free of charge.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## HomeBody (Sep 1, 2014)

JR Custom Calls said:


> I should get that book. I have plans to get some seed this fall and plant a bunch of trees this spring on the farm.



I wanted to know how the old timers planted those hedge rows. (Osage rows) Finally found an old timer who told me. Late summer (now!) get some 55 gal drums and sit them out in the open. No holes in the bottom. Fill 1/3 to 1/2 with hedge apples. Let them fill with rain water and do nothing all winter. Or, add water if it's dry where you are. In the spring, dig a shallow trench where you want your hedge row to be. Stir the contents of the drum. The apples will be broke down and the seeds released. It's like a slurry. Pour the contents of the drums into the trench as you are moving along. 
Hedge trees come in male and female, thorns and thorn less. Ideally, you should find a male tree without thorns. They are fairly common if you look close. I have at least one on my place. Take cuttings off the tips of branches in Dec. and root with rootone. Cuttings need to be in pots with a light underneath the pots for heat. Plant them in the spring if they take. No thorns, no apples. Gary

Reactions: Like 1


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## David Hill (Sep 1, 2014)

Kevin said:


> David, they are called horse apples because although they are toxic to humans, horses love them. I have fed them to horses personally so I know this is true by experience - it is not book knowledge. My dad showed me how to feed a horse an apple and believe me, you want to have someone show you before you do it or you could lose some fingers or a hand.


Thanks Kevin--_did know_ that they were toxic to humans, horses we had wouldn't eat'em.


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## MikeMD (Sep 1, 2014)

I've known the tree as Osage Orange and nothing else. Recently, a lady at the post office was telling me about a Hedge that was down, and that I could have it if I wanted it. A what? A hedge...you know, a hedge! I went by her farm and saw the Osage right where the hedge should be. 1 + 1 = 2....Oh, hedge is osage...got it!

Since then, I've heard people call it hedge more than Osage. Maybe I just shrugged it off when I heard the word "hedge" before...thinking people were describing a thing (a barrier) rather than a tree type.

Just turned a NE 17" or so bowl out of the stuff. Gotta say it turned quite nicely. I was expecting it to beat me up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## DKMD (Sep 1, 2014)

No pics... Didn't happen...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MikeMD (Sep 2, 2014)

B buster...


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## BrentWin (Sep 2, 2014)

To add a couple of things to add to the conversation. Bois d'arc is french for "bow wood". The wood was high prized by Indians for making their bows. Today many long bow makers use it. If you have a bow maker in your area, get to know him. Often they end up with chunks of hedge that they can't use due to irregular grain patterns. I recently got a piece 6" x 6" x 4' from a local bowmaker. It had been drying for 15 yrs. It turned like a dream but the sparks flew when I cut it on the table saw.


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## Kevin (Sep 2, 2014)

One thing that Dr. Tarpley points out in his book, although barbed wire destroyed the bois d' arc seed market almost immediately, the wire was hung on . . . . . bois d'arc posts.


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## gman2431 (Sep 2, 2014)

We got a buddy to try one once. Didn't know they were toxic tho... poor guy is kinda goofy anyhow. 

There's some really old homesteads that but up to the road and we used to grab em when they fell. 

I've heard many people say to throw em in your crawl space (if you got one) and they will keep spiders out your house. Anyone else ever heard that?


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## Kevin (Sep 2, 2014)

gman2431 said:


> Anyone else ever heard that?



Yes my wife tried it. When she seen a spider crawling on one a few days later she said it was officially debunked.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## MikeMD (Sep 3, 2014)

Okay, well, this ain't no professional type photography, but just to dispel Keller's "no pics didn't happen", here's my rustic 16" NE osage orange bowl. Still needs buffing, but otherwise done.

Reactions: Like 4 | EyeCandy! 1 | Way Cool 1


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## DKMD (Sep 3, 2014)

That looks good, Mike! I love the glow of well finished Osage/hedge/Bois d'arc

Reactions: Agree 1


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## SENC (Sep 4, 2014)

I have to say, Amazon Prime is a wonderful thing...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Overtrim (Sep 8, 2014)

Central/South Alabama it is called 'mock orange'. With a good squirrel dog you can have a fun afternoon hunting in the hedges.


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## Kevin (Sep 8, 2014)

SENC said:


> I have to say, Amazon Prime is a wonderful thing...



Ain't that the truth. I wasn't ever gonna do it, but my wife signed me up for it anyway and I'm glad she did - it's paid for itself many many times over. I sometimes wonder how they do it. 


Enjoy the book!


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