# T&J 1933 Seagrave Firetruck



## kweinert (May 13, 2018)

Well folks, welcome to amateur hour. 

With us heading back to Ohio for a family reunion this summer and my brother-in-law being a paramedic/ fireman I decided to give this a try. 



 

So far today I've laid out the frame. 



 

Now to start drilling and cutting. 

I'll keep with the tradition of using a lighter for scale but I'll use red so you can be sure to tell the difference between my build and @Kenbo's :) 

Seriously, it's because of my artillery background. 

And yes, it is all his fault. If he hadn't created the series on YouTube I never would have thought that there'd be any chance of me getting this built.

Reactions: Like 3 | Way Cool 6


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## Tony (May 13, 2018)




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## Mr. Peet (May 13, 2018)

I think that was the LaFrance model...some had the solid rubber wheels. Heavy truck, amazing how things have changed. Look forward to seeing this build.


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## rocky1 (May 13, 2018)

That brought back memories! Forgot all about that Helicopter model I built back there in the early 80s until I looked at the Toys and Joys website. That was many many moons ago!! Last I saw of it, one of my boys had it.


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## Kenbo (May 13, 2018)

Looking forward to seeing this one come together. This is going to be awesome.


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## Lou Currier (May 13, 2018)

The videos definitely were an inspiration


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## rocky1 (May 13, 2018)

They've even got kits for @Tony !! 

TONY KITS

Reactions: Funny 4


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## woodtickgreg (May 13, 2018)



Reactions: +Karma 1


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## kweinert (May 14, 2018)

So, no real progress beyond what you've already seen. I decided that I needed to build a table and fence for my drill press if I'm really going to start being concerned about drilling accurate holes so the rest of the early afternoon was taken up with that. And then our daughter had a Mother's Day get together for my wife and the other spouses and that pretty much took up the rest of the day.


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## Don Ratcliff (May 15, 2018)

The lighter is a nice touch.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## kweinert (May 19, 2018)

So I've finally had a chance to get the drill press fence finished.



 

But before I drilled the axle holes I thought I'd ask the resident expert if he'd ever made tires like these. 



 

If there's a way to make them then I'll go with the 1/4" hole. Since the plan calls for 5/16" if I'm going to purchase tires then I'll go with the plans. 

Sorry to bug you all with this but I didn't see an easy way to put an image in a conversation. 

Thanks.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Don Ratcliff (May 19, 2018)

Nope, I have never made tires like that. Maybe @Kenbo has...

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Tony (May 19, 2018)

kweinert said:


> So I've finally had a chance to get the drill press fence finished.
> 
> View attachment 147437
> 
> ...



There isn't a way for you to put a picture in a PM, Kevin set this up where it's not allowed.


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## kweinert (May 19, 2018)

After looking at them and pondering for a bit I wonder if I could build them in a couple of steps. 

Use a hole saw to get the inside hole and the diameter that's just outside the line that's about 1/2 way up the tire. 

True the wheels, then index to drill the spoke holes. 

Use the hole saw once again to get the separation where the spokes show. 

True the inner hub then insert the spokes. 

Now turn the outer tire and insert the inner assembly, glue it up, finish it off. 

Any of that make sense?


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## Don Ratcliff (May 19, 2018)

kweinert said:


> After looking at them and pondering for a bit I wonder if I could build them in a couple of steps.
> 
> Use a hole saw to get the inside hole and the diameter that's just outside the line that's about 1/2 way up the tire.
> 
> ...


Or you could make some bricks to put under the truck and make it look like a truck from Oakland. Then tell people all that stuff above and how great the wheels looked before you got jacked. There is a threadaround here where a guy made about a million bricks for some reason...

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Mr. Peet (May 20, 2018)

kweinert said:


> After looking at them and pondering for a bit I wonder if I could build them in a couple of steps.
> 
> Use a hole saw to get the inside hole and the diameter that's just outside the line that's about 1/2 way up the tire.
> True the wheels, then index to drill the spoke holes.
> ...



Turn them like Ken does. Then just drill the holes round. It will have the same effect...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kenbo (May 20, 2018)

It just looks like these highway wheels with a different hub. You could make the highways wheels and then use a scroll saw to cut the hub section out of a contacting species and glue them together. You way would word as well though.

Reactions: Like 3


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## kweinert (May 23, 2018)

So a small bit of progress today. 

I had to process a chunk of cherry as that's what I'm making the seat and tank from. 

Got the pieces rough cut. Then I changed out the band saw blade and cut the patterns for the seat. 

I plan on cutting the sides together, shaping the set base and back separately, and then gluing it all together. After that I'll shape the angle in the back.

Reactions: Like 4


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## kweinert (May 30, 2018)

Ok, so a bit of progress. 

I got the seat pieces cut, formed, and glued. Then discovered that one side slipped during gluing. *sigh*

So back to the sander to take that piece off, cut, form, and glue the new one. Then a bit of sanding into the final shape by adding the angle to the seat back. 



 



 

I also got the frame mostly cut out. I now need to re-mark the bevel on the front and the dado on the back. 

It's really easy to get ahead of yourself when doing these. 



 

(The tank might need a little work yet :)

Reactions: Like 4 | Way Cool 2


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## kweinert (May 30, 2018)

I will also add that taking time to do good setup work helps. Finally creating the drill press table meant that the axle holes go all the way through and actually correctly meet in the center. The combination of good layout, a stop block, and clamps got me the repeatability that was needed.

It's not *all *mind-set when you're working on stuff but it's a very important piece. Now to see if that will transfer to my other projects without too much backsliding.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mr. Peet (May 30, 2018)

I see you did not use bilateral grain balance, having the grain on each end of the bench seat match (directionally). Ken would have likely made them both from the same piece, then band-sawed them in half to match. I'm still jealous, wish I had the time and the talent...


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## kweinert (May 30, 2018)

Mr. Peet said:


> I see you did not use bilateral grain balance, having the grain on each end of the bench seat match (directionally). Ken would have likely made them both from the same piece, then band-sawed them in half to match. I'm still jealous, wish I had the time and the talent...



Initially I did. You can see the grain match on one side. 

Yes, Ken would have remade the entire piece, I did not.


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## Kenbo (May 31, 2018)

kweinert said:


> Initially I did. You can see the grain match on one side.
> 
> Yes, Ken would have remade the entire piece, I did not.



Don't worry about what "Ken" would do. That guy has issues. 

Looking great sir. Great save on the seat piece and the main body plate looks great. Very clean lines. I agree with everything you said about set up and that sort of thing. Let the machines do the repetition thinking for you instead of taking the chance that you have the ability to be perfect each time. Extra time spent doing setup and taking accurate measurements goes a long way to a successful and great looking model. Looks like you are well on your way to a awesome looking project. (even if your lighter is the wrong style and the wrong colour).

Reactions: Like 1


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## kweinert (May 31, 2018)

Kenbo said:


> Don't worry about what "Ken" would do. That guy has issues.



Not worried about that guy, just acknowledging that there are different levels of OCD 



Kenbo said:


> Looking great sir. Looks like you are well on your way to a awesome looking project. (even if your lighter is the wrong style and the wrong colour).



I assure you that the choice of color was quite deliberate. It's a reminder of my many years as a Redleg (not Redneck although I may resemble that as well). I spent about 17 years as an artillery officer (155MM SP and 8 Inch SP) and so I'm a bit partial to Artillery Red.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 1


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## kweinert (Jun 16, 2018)

Ok, so back from California and got some time in the shop today. 

You've seen the tank blank before and today I spent some time at the sander getting it oval. Then I dimensioned some cherry stock and cut the tank supports. I used the tank for the final shaping to be sure they fit together. 



 
I kept the two supports together as long as I could so I had something to hang onto. 

Before I left I glued up some cherry for the fenders. Those got cut out and shaped today. I don't know if my brain wasn't wrapping around the pattern correctly or if the one side was backwards, but since it was a compound cut I wanted the side pattern on the flat side. I ended cutting out the pattern that worked like I thought it should and then tracing that on the other side. 

Got the cut and mostly sanded with one small mishap. I brought the curve of the front fender a little too far around, the sander grabbed it and I now had 3 pieces. Luckily it was a clean break by the rear wheel well and it glued up just fine. 

So here's progress to date. I still have a little work on the rear wheel well where the power sanding couldn't reach.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 5


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## woodtickgreg (Jun 17, 2018)

Diggin it!


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## rocky1 (Jun 17, 2018)

The build is looking really good Ken, but you got to clean up that dust on the saw, if you're going to attain Crazy Canadian status!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## kweinert (Jun 17, 2018)

rocky1 said:


> The build is looking really good Ken, but you got to clean up that dust on the saw, if you're going to attain Crazy Canadian status!



Yeah, I was going to mention that my shop isn't nearly as neat as the other Ken's is - but I thought it a waste of time to state the obvious :)

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Kenbo (Jun 18, 2018)

Looking great. Love the front fenders and the shaping of them. It's always rewarding when the pieces start coming together. Keep it up sir. I'm loving this build.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## kweinert (Jun 24, 2018)

No pictures today since everything is clamped up, but I cut and glued the engine block and the dashboard assembly. 

Tomorrow I'll post pictures of the dashboard assembly and show my strategy for laying it out and finishing it off.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Kenbo (Jun 24, 2018)

kweinert said:


> No pictures today since everything is clamped up, but I cut and glued the engine block and the dashboard assembly.
> 
> Tomorrow I'll post pictures of the dashboard assembly and show my strategy for laying it out and finishing it off.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## woodtickgreg (Jun 24, 2018)



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## Lou Currier (Jun 24, 2018)



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## kweinert (Jun 25, 2018)

So when I glued this up I put wax paper over another board and not only clamped the pieces together I clamped them down to the board to ensure they remained flat enough. This piece has to be thinner but I wanted to keep it as flat as I could in order to reduce further work.



 

Here's the glued up piece:



 

The side and top rails are supposed to be 1/4" wide. I cut them a bit wider because I figured that would provide a bit more stability as I run it through the sander to get the thickness down to what's needed. The side rails are (obviously) cut long and the top rail is cut from the panel so there's some grain continuity (it's specified in the plans that the side rail and panel grains run at 90 degrees from each other.) The window is the required size already.

There's supposed to be a 14 degree angle on the window relative to to the panel. My thought here was that after I get to the correct thickness I can make a straight cut below the window, then a 14 degree cut on the top of the panel, then a straight cut along the bottom to get the required height of the panel.

This is why everything is a bit larger than needed - some stability when thicknessing and some room to get the exact sizes I need for the finished piece. If anyone sees a problem with this approach now is the time to speak up :)

I didn't show a picture of the engine block because it's only a couple pieces of thick maple. The tricky part there will be the forming to ensure that the seam in the middle stays in the middle. You won't actually be able to see it but because the two pieces are "book matched" the final appearance will look best if the block stays balanced around the center seam.

Reactions: Like 2


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## kweinert (Jun 27, 2018)

Today we have the engine block and the dash assembly.









Not perfect, a little cleanup to do in the dash yet, but it's at least resembling the plans :)

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 6


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## Kenbo (Jun 28, 2018)

Holy crap that looks great. Looks like I've got some serious competition here. Looking great sir and I'm loving this build.

Reactions: Like 3 | Thank You! 1 | Sincere 1


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## kweinert (Jun 29, 2018)

So, I just rewatched the tire video from @Kenbo. Then this video was next and since this Firetruck uses spoked wheels I thought I'd share it. 






I'm sure that using some of the master's techniques would improve the process but it's an interesting solution to spiked wheels.

Reactions: Like 1


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## kweinert (Jul 2, 2018)

So I decided to do a hybrid on the tire idea. I drilled it a little deeper than Kenbo does for his road wheels. I drilled out a dowel and rounded the end. I then put an axle piece in to hold it in place and then cut small bits of 1/8" dowel to fit around the new hub. Those are then flooded with CA to hold them in place. Since the entire model will get a coat of gloss poly this should blend better once they're done.





Here we have the headlights and siren. The poplar sticking out will end up being the lens but first it'll go into the chuck so I can shape the housing.





And the fire hoses. When drilling the first hole I drilled through into the block underneath. Then I used a piece of 1/8 dowel to pin it down so that the hole on the other end matched. The hose ends still need to be sanded down to size.





And the ladders. Took a bit more to assemble than I thought they would. I ended up drilling the holes a little larger (9/64) because the force fit of the 1/8 dowel just wasn't working out.





There are also some other body pieces cut to rough size but those pictures aren't too thrilling so I'll show them later.

Reactions: Like 3 | Way Cool 2


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## ripjack13 (Jul 2, 2018)




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## woodtickgreg (Jul 2, 2018)




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## Lou Currier (Jul 2, 2018)



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## kweinert (Jul 15, 2018)

So, after a vacation break and then a couple of days to recover I got back in the shop today.





I finished up the other three wheels. Next time out I think I'd try to determine a way to make guide marks in the wheel to help align the spokes.

That was a lot of hand cutting. Just not quite accurate enough that I could put a stop block and cut them all the same.

I got the corner posts cut and drilled. I tried stack drilling them to be sure they lined up but I ended up remaking a couple of them. Got the front glued up and the rear posts glued to the sides.

Cut the dowels for the ladder and pipe hangers.

Layed out the front bumper. Once it's sanded to shape then I'll cut the two pieces out.

So, progress being made.

Reactions: Like 2 | Way Cool 2


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## kweinert (Jul 29, 2018)

So this weekend I managed to complete several pieces (some was done earlier as well): 3 wheels, bumper, fire extinguishers, hose section, nozzles, front and side sections of the bed, tool boxes, headlights, and siren bracket. 



 

The are things that I'd like to have turned out better but I think it will be fairly decent looking when completed.

Reactions: Like 2 | Way Cool 3


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## gimpy (Aug 13, 2018)

Cool, watching the progress


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## kweinert (Nov 26, 2018)

So, it's been a long time - but since this is a Christmas present I needed to finish it up. With a couple of sales this fall and other things along the way the bucket of parts sat for quite a while.

It still needs a finish but it's pretty much assembled now. I'll take some pictures and update this post with them either in a few minutes or in the morning.

It's definitely not perfect and I see where I can improve on both technique and finish - but for a first model of this kind I think it turned out acceptable.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 2


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## kweinert (Nov 26, 2018)

I had to 'edit' the bumper as it hit the tires when I tried to attach it. I also had to edit the walls of the back as I both ended up slightly off vertical and back about 3/16" too far. Evidently I only measured once when I put in the seat/tank platform.


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## Lou Currier (Nov 26, 2018)

Now you need some pallets to go in the back

Reactions: Funny 1


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## kweinert (Nov 30, 2018)

So, finish is going on, picture to follow by end of weekend. 

And I bought 3 more patterns.

Reactions: Like 2


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## ironman123 (Nov 30, 2018)

That is looking super cool Ken. Reminds me of making my 1930 Packard Touring Car with Spoked Wheels about 40 years ago. You are doing a great job on it. Will be glad to see it painted and finished. What other three plans did you get?


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## kweinert (Nov 30, 2018)

A semi, a 1/4 ton and trailer, had the half track, and got their video on making tracks.


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## ironman123 (Dec 3, 2018)

@kweinert did you get the finish on yet. I am anxious to see the finished fire truck. I have been looking at their models for a new project. They have my 1930 Packard Touring kit/patterns. It is a big car and a nice project.


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## kweinert (Dec 3, 2018)

Essentially yes. Im rubbing down with 4-0 steel wool to even it out. 

This is a gloss wiping varnish. 



 

 

 

 

I do have to reglue the windshield siren.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 2


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## ironman123 (Dec 3, 2018)

Great work.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## kweinert (Dec 4, 2018)

I added one more thing. I just happened to remember that I have one of those $60 laser engravers so I put his company name on the side of one of the ladders.

Then wished I had remembered it earlier as I could have done the license plate as well.


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## ironman123 (Dec 4, 2018)

Let us see the laser engraving on the ladders @kweinert . What $60 laser do you have?


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## kweinert (Dec 4, 2018)

Here you go. 



 



 

One of those NEJE type ones. The little 1000/1500 milliwatt engravers is all.

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## Jason Martin (Jan 9, 2019)

Really enjoyed this thread!
Great job!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Tony (Jan 9, 2019)

Just caught up on this Ken, came out really nice! Tony

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## FLQuacker (Jan 15, 2019)

Oh man, my Dad would have loved that! (retired Fire Chief)

They had one in the Dept that had to be a year or two either side of that named "Scrappy" used it in parades.

Funny story, when the Fireman's Competitions started getting big...he took a 40 something model American Lafrance and dropped a big block in it, had a fold down step off the back, lowered the chassis and smoked anybody on the truck runs. Got so much heat from other competitors about not being a real "fire truck" he started carrying around a newspaper article about a big industrial fire and a picture of it pumping for about 24 hrs straight :)

Reactions: Like 3


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