# Ivory vs. bone identification



## Strider (Jan 24, 2017)

I am copying the former info on ivory vs. bone identification as I have found a nice piece of ivory carving at my summerhouse, so I can compare the two. It will last a few days, so be patient ;)

"
Last beer time with Tom- as always, he has a block or two to show!
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Here you go, Tom, the pics of those ivory pieces. I will try to use a higher magnification microscope intended for metal microstructures...until then, these might prove handy.
As you can see, around the voids there are cracks which resemble bone. Then, there are these porous holes, which also resemble bone- Google comes in aid yet again! The pits/holes are called Haversian System holes and indicate bone, not ivory. But, they are seen by a lupe, a magnifying glass or by eye, no one mentions microscope. Also, these Schreger lines are a common in destinguishing whether the ivory is from elefant, mammoth or boar tusks. but, the lines are seen under a polarized light- a photo copy machine will do.
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Take a look at the hole on the left, just above the grid lines. You see the crack lines?



And again, this is a great shot!



Sadly the pictures of the edge are hard to take :I



Now, this amazing, flakey structure is on the rough side, the back side of the piano keys, which are glued to the wood.



Some more tests need to be done- "Then take the needle and touch the ivory in a non-conspicuous spot. True ivory cannot be burned but if it's bone or plastic a burn mark will be left. This tip was given from an episode of Flea Market Mania."
At this point I would say the keys are not man made, but I can't tell if they are bleached bone or ivory. I will try out some more tests.
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Reactions: Informative 3


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## Strider (Jan 30, 2017)

As promised;

I informed my self a bit more, so the order of teats goes as following:

1) Visual examination- any holes ir pits resembling bubbles are probably... bubbles. Formed by casting a polymer- plastic. Also, sharp ridges from mold spaces or anything too straight and symmetrical migh be a sign of casting. 

2) UV light tells the absolute distinction between polymers and bone/ivory. Ivory shines white, others don't.
Also burn test, but we'll skip for the figure's sake. Self explanatory. Plastics behaves like butter, bone charrs and smells like hair and ivory none from the above.

3) Polymers now excluded. Visual sign for dark holes; once lined with nerves, blood vessels the holes are now darkened by the organic matter decay. However, even ivory sometimes has them as it is a matter of teeth, which also have root canals and blood vessels, nerves etc.
Bones and antlers have a lot more dark holes than ivory. Also, weight. Ivory is significantly heavier, denser, harder.

4) Bones now excluded. Time to thell which ivory is it. Elephant and mammoth have Schreger lines bit at a different angle (less than 90 degrees- mammoth and above 115 degrees- elephant).
Whale has circular Nazi lines in cross section, while warthog has hour glass shaped...and hippo has triangular. Walrus has nothing in the primary dentine, but has "oat meal" effect in the secondary- center.

Some test are too destructive- burn test, so use the ones listed above. They are good if you don't have the light handy. Also, the Nazi lines can differ regarding center proximity. The angle becomes steeper.
Pics tomorrow.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Spinartist (Jan 30, 2017)



Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Jim Beam (Jan 30, 2017)

Strider said:


> I informed my self a bit more, so the order of* teat*s goes as following:
> .




wat?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Strider (Jan 31, 2017)

I was was very sleepy and might have countes titties (more fun than counting sheep)!

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## Strider (Feb 10, 2017)

So, here are the promised teats. Tests, I mean, tests!

One necklace and one naked lady. Minors and extremely old beware, titties below!



As the list of tests is written above, you can see that the first thing to cross my eyes is the brown spots which might indicate bone.






But, unlike bone, it is not as porous and not light, on the contrary, it is rather dense and hard. Bones unlike ivory don't have the grain. You can see them clearly below.



Clear lines on the cross section.



More grain. No cross Scherger cross grain, though. Not elephant nor mammoth ivory.












Second piece. No repeating dark spots. Yellowish patina with pink reflections. Also dark lines-cracks are a good "natural" indicator, thought they can be fake. 



(unimportant but pretty. Check the pink streak following her tights)
Look at her calve. You can see the grain. Good sign. Not symmetrical, doesn't seem fake.


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## Strider (Feb 10, 2017)

The Schreger lines can be seen on the calf, the grain, call it whatever you wish, and the natural occurring cracks on her beautiful curves. Crap, hips. I mean hips.


 
See that on one spot the grain intersects. Hard to spot, sorry.



Next we have the burn test. Red hot pin on the pieces. None burned. No left traces, no burn marks. No smell, either. If it were polymers- plastics or alike, it would melt like nothing. If it was a matter of bone- it would smell like burnt hair.


 
Nope, nothing.


 
Nope yet again!


 
Took the magnifying glass to show the lines better.


 
Look at her shaved armpit. You see that the lines intersect.


 
And here on her elbow, just where the shadow is.


 
Just a bit low right from the hole.


 
First piece, on the other hand, has only liner grain. Might be warthog or whale. I doubt it is walrus or hippo. See below why I mean so.


 

This is what different animal sources ivory looks like.






Another interesting key technique.






Other techniques include size and shape. Segmented pieces are most likely cow bone and alike, as ivory is most valuable unaltered. Too big pieces...possibly fake- most teeth are long and thin, whether it's a matter of elephant or the smallest kind- warthog. So there is no room for wide stuff. Savvy? 

Hope it helps! :)


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## wombat (Feb 10, 2017)

Interesting, thanks for that, but now you have me running around looking for my UV flashlight!!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Strider (Feb 10, 2017)

Hahha! I tried my mosquito zapping LED UV, but it doesn't work. Just looks purple.


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## Strider (Feb 10, 2017)

This would be a more convenient way...

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## DaveHawk (Feb 18, 2017)

3 other forms of ivory, one Walrus teeth , large teeth have been used for bead making & other small objects. Next Ivvory nuts, once backed are very hard and difficult to distinguish from real non grain ivory. Anotheris whale penis which scribbage borads are made from. 
You mentioned pinkage ivory color tone which is most prevalent in walrus ivory.


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## Strider (Feb 21, 2017)

Thank you, David, for reminding me about ivory nuts! I forgot about them. I never had the opportunity to work with them so I am limited to Google.

Pink in walrus? Hm, that's interesting. Why is that so?

This lady is definitely elephant ivory. The Schreger lines intersect at the angle bigger than 100 degrees


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## DaveHawk (Feb 21, 2017)

Here are a few different examples, Whale with cross section 
Walrus with a cross section, deterioration look as they begin to dry out and flack apart.
Then the cribbage board, a tool holder and small tool of some sort.

Reactions: Way Cool 1


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## Strider (Feb 23, 2017)

Wow! Can you tell which is which?
By all means, write posts as you please, people! ;) contribute!


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## DaveHawk (Feb 23, 2017)

Strider said:


> Wow! Can you tell which is which?
> By all means, write posts as you please, people! ;) contribute!


Strider, sorry did not mean to step on your toes, just contribute. I know a little your diagrams are big help to me. Thought I'd share whate the diagrams are showing.


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## Strider (Feb 23, 2017)

No, no, don't get me wrong, that is the point of the thread- spreading knowledge! I thank you for that! :) Nobody stepped on my toes hahahah

I hope the diagrams helped!

I have never seen walrus ivory until now. The granulated/pelleted structure is so cool! I also see pinkish streaks on the last photo on the right sided tool.

Will you use the pieces for something?


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## DaveHawk (Feb 23, 2017)

I've used walrus teeth for turning beads . I have about 4 dozen. I like the walrus more then the mastodon for striker tips. I do find use no and then for aged ivory is period pieces of furniture , suctions and thing like that. When building a period style flintlock the aged ivory is a good fooler when used for inlays. 
Walrus teeth were used much more than whale for fishing weights and tool making because of it being solid all the way through from root to tip.

I'll get some other shots of the walrus to share. But now I'm off on the HD , just changed the oil ready to ride.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## JohnF (Feb 25, 2017)

Ya'll are forgetting yet another form of ivory. 2 teeth called whistlers in an elk's upper jaw are supposedly ivory. If they aren't, I do not know what I have saved a few sets for...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Strider (Feb 25, 2017)

Yes, yes, you are correct, sir. I've heard a thing or two over in Bozeman. It was important trade supply back in the day. But they are so smakl compared to other species.


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## DaveHawk (Feb 25, 2017)

I've seen them as necklace pendants, ear rings. Bracelet charms. 
I have a 12"cut of a whale rib whichis ivory. One of these days ll get around to a scrimshaw scean on it.


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## Strider (Feb 26, 2017)

And we won't mind the photos you post us! :))

I wonder if saber tooth tiger's canines are used to crate ornents... That would be sick!


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## Strider (May 7, 2017)

I found a nice photo of the Schreger lines on a knife handle! Wow!

Reactions: EyeCandy! 1 | Way Cool 1


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## barry richardson (May 7, 2017)

DaveHawk said:


> I've seen them as necklace pendants, ear rings. Bracelet charms.
> I have a 12"cut of a whale rib whichis ivory. One of these days ll get around to a scrimshaw scean on it.


Whale ribs are ivory? If so I left a treasure on the shore when I worked on San Clemente Island, a whole gray whale skeleton, I did take a couple of vertebrae though, they were very cool looking.... no pics though, gave them away years ago..... This is a very informative thread BTW! really enjoying it Loris and David...

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## DaveHawk (May 7, 2017)

Antique walrus tooth knife handle on a Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation skinning knife, my favorite skinner.


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## Strider (May 7, 2017)

Unique knife it is, for sure! Looks handy and I find the hooves logo kinda cute! LOL
I can definitely see the walrus tusk "marbled" pattern clearly now- right at the finger groove on the second picture. Never saw it before, thanks!


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