# What's Growing in the Garden



## trc65

Last year we had a " what's growing in the yard" thread, and rather than piggyback on that thread, thought I'd start a new one. 

As I've mentioned before, I grow a very large garden, and also grow all my own transplants (vegetables and flowers). Thought some might find it interesting to see how I start everything, follow along through the season, and add your own pictures, stories, questions and eventually recipes.

Right now I have around 30 different flowers/varieties started along with Rosemary, thyme and celery. Will start all my peppers tomorrow, along with another batch of flowers.

No pictures yet, but I'll take some tomorrow to show my setup and some of the young flowers. Also, if anyone is interested, I've got an Excel spreadsheet I've developed that lists all the flowers and vegetables I've ever grown along with seeding requirements/temps, and also calculates date to start seeds based on your last frost free date.

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## Ray D

I enjoyed following along with the last thread. It actually inspired me to start growing vegetables again. With the mild winters we have here in Florida its actually possible to have fresh vegetables throughout the year.

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## Sprung

I'll be in for this thread again. Our seed order finally arrived in the mail a couple days ago. Next step is figuring out what seeds to start when - last year was our first year with a garden, we got started a little late, and just went at it. This year we're planning it out better. I'll also be building some planters for our back patio, where we'll expand into growing a few things there as well. I won't consider this for probably at least a couple years, but I wouldn't mind adding on another raised bed to what we already have.

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## trc65

Here are some pictures of my setup. The main rack will hold 12- 1020 flats using just six lights. The whole thing is just PVC using some eye bolts to hang the lights. Started with regular T8 fluorescent fixtures, but am transitioning to LED as those crap out.

Four flats will fit under each bank of two lights.





End view, showing how lights are hung. Just straight sections of PVC using lots of "T" fittings. Kind of a mess of wires right now with two thermostats, three heat mats and temp probes. Heat mats are only used to germinate seeds, once they are transplanted into cell packs, they do just fine. Need the mats for germ as basement is about 55° right now. 










I start everything in either 4" or 2.5" square pots. The exception being some vegetables that will be started later (when it's a little warmer), those are sown directly into cell packs.

Here are some of the flowers that need about another week before they are transplanted.






Closeup of begonia in a 4" pot. These germinated about two weeks ago, and probably have another three weeks before transplanting. They are tiny, and grow slowly until their leaves get to about 1" in diameter. There are 30 growing in this pot.






Used to start everything in cell packs, but that takes up way too much space. Right now there are 28 different varieties growing in these three flats. If I'd started them in cell packs, it would have just about filled my rack. Once these are transplanted and get within a couple weeks of planting, they will get moved to my coldframe outside which will hold another 8 flats.

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## trc65

Sprung said:


> I'll be in for this thread again. Our seed order finally arrived in the mail a couple days ago. Next step is figuring out what seeds to start when - last year was our first year with a garden, we got started a little late, and just went at it. This year we're planning it out better. I'll also be building some planters for our back patio, where we'll expand into growing a few things there as well. I won't consider this for probably at least a couple years, but I wouldn't mind adding on another raised bed to what we already have.


Matt, I'm in zone 5 with a last frost free date of April 20. I calculate everything back from that date. Here are the dates I use as a guideline for when to plant.

Celery, peppers - 2/23

Onions- 3/2

Tomatoes - 3/9

Basil, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower - 3/23

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## Lou Currier




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## Mike Hill

Gotta stay away from this thread - it makes me too depressed. After 42 years living in the same place about all I have room for is a half dozen tomato and pepper plants - and they don't do all that well because of shade - intenode spacing is way long. Bout all I can do now is hostas, impatients, ferns, eastern woodland wildflowers, azaleas, OLH, and caladiums - and I nurse a few peonies, tree peonies, and Interstems and oriental lillies. Where I have the most sun, I decided on figs and jap. persimmons. I've got one little spot near the mailbox (its where I have the best drainage) where I put rosemary, sage, several varieties of echinacea, buddleia, some rare peonies, and my girls - frilly daylillies and those great smelling oriental lillies

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## Sprung

trc65 said:


> Matt, I'm in zone 5 with a last frost free date of April 20. I calculate everything back from that date. Here are the dates I use as a guideline for when to plant.
> 
> Celery, peppers - 2/23
> 
> Onions- 3/2
> 
> Tomatoes - 3/9
> 
> Basil, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower - 3/23



We're zone 5 as well. What I'm reading is a last frost free date of about mid-May for my area. But I'm also very close to Lake Michigan - under half a mile - and those I've talked to here have said that they wait until at least Memorial Day weekend to transplant anything in the ground due to a little later chance of frost. So I'm wondering which date I should calculate for? Mid-May or end of May?

And it will be cooler at my house than even 5 miles more inland, especially at that time of the year. It was about that time last year when I had to run over to Green Bay. It was in the mid-60's here and I was in jeans. I got to Green Bay and it was about 90! Even 5 miles inland that day it was over 80.


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## djg

I'm not familiar with 'cell packs'. What's the approximate dimensions? Also, you transplant each plant, say those begonias into separate pots or as a whole bunch into a bigger pot?


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## trc65

Sprung said:


> We're zone 5 as well. What I'm reading is a last frost free date of about mid-May for my area. But I'm also very close to Lake Michigan - under half a mile - and those I've talked to here have said that they wait until at least Memorial Day weekend to transplant anything in the ground due to a little later chance of frost. So I'm wondering which date I should calculate for? Mid-May or end of May?



I'd still shoot for Mid May. Can always hold them longer in containers if you need to due to cold weather/soil, but if it is warm enough, hate to loose those two weeks because your plants are too small.

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## trc65

djg said:


> I'm not familiar with 'cell packs'. What's the approximate dimensions? Also, you transplant each plant, say those begonias into separate pots or as a whole bunch into a bigger pot?



Here's a picture of a flat of cell packs. One of these fits into a standard 1020 nursery flat/tray (which is a tray 10"x20"). The cell packs come in different sizes, and break apart into individual six packs or four packs.





This particular size is called an 806. It beaks into 8 packs each with 6 cells. I use this size the most for flowers, although I use ones with deeper cells than shown.

All the flowers will be individually transplanted into a cell, and grown up until they are big enough to be planted outside. The begonias will fill about 3/4 of this tray.

Their are lots of suppliers of nursery trays/pots/cell packs, and if you are lucky enough to be close to a good garden supply store you can buy them there. I order everything from https://www.greenhousemegastore.com...aYvbs3Sb29XqvCUyaS0OLKiT_qZbWURgaAuq8EALw_wcB.

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## Sprung

trc65 said:


> I'd still shoot for Mid May. Can always hold them longer in containers if you need to due to cold weather/soil, but if it is warm enough, hate to loose those two weeks because your plants are too small.



That's where I got into trouble with many of my pepper plants last year - they got such a late start that I didn't get much.

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## djg

trc65 said:


> Here's a picture of a flat of cell packs. One of these fits into a standard 1020 nursery flat/tray (which is a tray 10"x20"). The cell packs come in different sizes, and break apart into individual six packs or four packs.
> 
> View attachment 203958
> 
> This particular size is called an 806. It beaks into 8 packs each with 6 cells. I use this size the most for flowers, although I use ones with deeper cells than shown.
> 
> All the flowers will be individually transplanted into a cell, and grown up until they are big enough to be planted outside. The begonias will fill about 3/4 of this tray.
> 
> Their are lots of suppliers of nursery trays/pots/cell packs, and if you are lucky enough to be close to a good garden supply store you can buy them there. I order everything from https://www.greenhousemegastore.com...aYvbs3Sb29XqvCUyaS0OLKiT_qZbWURgaAuq8EALw_wcB.


Thanks for explaining it me. I have similar starting trays that have 1x1 square holes and I meticulously try to put one or two seeds in each hole. My problem is getting the plants out. I probably don't start them soon enough so the roots aren't developed well enough to hole the soil together. I couldn't imaging trying to transplant plants as tiny as those begonias into separate cells, I'd just mangle them.


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## barry richardson

Well...... looks like we're a little ahead of you here in AZ, check out my Broccolini patch



sure is tasty,


OK, so its the field across from my house, probably a total of 100 plus acers in the 3 plots near here, a lot of it is flowering out, which makes it past its prime for the market, not sure why no one is harvesting it (besides me)

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## trc65

djg said:


> Thanks for explaining it me. I have similar starting trays that have 1x1 square holes and I meticulously try to put one or two seeds in each hole. My problem is getting the plants out. I probably don't start them soon enough so the roots aren't developed well enough to hole the soil together. I couldn't imaging trying to transplant plants as tiny as those begonias into separate cells, I'd just mangle them.


The begonia will be a lot bigger when I step them up to cell packs, I'll take pics as I go along. If you have things hard to get out of cells, two things to try. First let them dry a little bit when you try to extract them, second, use a piece of dowel and push them up from the bottom. I plant onions in 128 trays which are 128 cells per 10x20 tray, and the only way to get them out is pushing from the bottom.

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## trc65

barry richardson said:


> Well...... looks like we're a little ahead of you here in AZ, check out my Broccolini patch
> View attachment 203968
> sure is tasty,View attachment 203969
> OK, so its the field across from my house, probably a total of 100 plus acers in the 3 plots near here, a lot of it is flowering out, which makes it past its prime for the market, not sure why no one is harvesting it (besides me)



Wonder if maybe they are growing the field for seed? Lot of seed production is our west where drier climates prevent foliar disease and diseases that can be seed borne.

Either way, sure is a pretty site to have across from your house. Are there lots of bees around? When I have broccoli go to seed, it's a bee magnet.


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## Ray D

Cool pictures in the broccoli patch. Is it possible that the main head has been already harvested and those are secondary heads on side shoots? Can’t really tell from the picture. In Florida, we can actuality get a second smaller harvest and occasionally a third if it doesn’t get too warm. Either way.. cool picture.


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## barry richardson

Yea It might be for seed, gonna be a whole lotta seed though........ I have seen them let cotton go, not pick it, then plow it under may be some sort of tax write off for industrialized farming world.... definitely none of it has been harvested yet, when they harvest its a big operation, bring in bus loads of workers, (all Hispanic from what I have seen) and knock it out in a couple of days. Last winter all these fields were green onions, which were harvested. Summer is usually Cotton..

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## Mike Hill

Is it spring yet?

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## T. Ben

Mike Hill said:


> Is it spring yet?
> 
> View attachment 204631


Yes


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## trc65

Mike Hill said:


> Is it spring yet?
> 
> View attachment 204631


Beautiful daffodils! 

Sure seems like it here, although I wish it would cool off a little bit more. We've been at 50-60° for highs for a while, and I always worry about the fruit trees starting too early. Our last average last frost date isn't until April 20, so while I'm enjoying it, I know we've probably got some winter weather yet to come.


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## trc65

Going to be a while until we have anything around here as beautiful as Mike showed, here are a couple pictures of my little flowers.

These are the begonia that I showed earlier. The big leaf on these is about 1/2" diameter. Still another week or two before they get stepped up into cell packs.





Going to be busy in the next couple of days, everything in this flat is now ready for transplanting.





Six flats full of stuff so far, will probably be up to 10 by the end of the week.

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## Mike Hill

They kinda act as our groundhogs - six more weeks until frost free!

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## trc65

Spring is here. The little species crocus have started to bloom.

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## ripjack13

Why have I not been in here sooner!?
I need to show @Mrs ripjack13 this....

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## trc65

And here we are two weeks later. Big rack is full and overflow rack nearly so. Going to have to move several flats out to the cold frame this week to make room for stepping up tomatoes and peppers, and all the cole crops need planting too.





Here's the overflow rack. Only four flats fit on this one, but they get more light on this rack.

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## Wildthings

I put cherry tomatoes, Celebrity tomatoes and 3 kind of cucumbers in my grow pots this last week. Also some dwarf sunflowers

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## Wildthings

OH yea I also found some of the spicy oregano that has eluded me for the past few years!

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## Mike Hill

trc65 said:


> And here we are two weeks later. Big rack is full and overflow rack nearly so. Going to have to move several flats out to the cold frame this week to make room for stepping up tomatoes and peppers, and all the cole crops need planting too.
> 
> View attachment 205677
> 
> Here's the overflow rack. Only four flats fit on this one, but they get more light on this rack.
> 
> View attachment 205678


Too kewl. Prime wish is a greenhouse but since that won't happen, this is my realistic wish but not so big. I can't grow many veggies and not many annuals. Unfortunately I have to chose - storing wood or growing plants!

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## trc65

Wildthings said:


> OH yea I also found some of the spicy oregano that has eluded me for the past few years!


Mexican oregano?

Several seed companies sell "hot and spicy" oregano which is probably a "Mexican oregano" and not a true oregano at all.

Oregano (greek and turkish) is _Origanum onites_ and closely related to west asian oregano_ O. syriacum_. These all taste similar.

Mexican oregano is_ Lippia graveolens_ and should grow as a perennial shrub in your area if you want to grow it that way.

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## Wildthings

The first one I found a few years back was "Hot and Spicy" Oregano sold at Walmart. Really good oregano taste with a bite to it. Great on my eggs. Haven't seen it since and look every time I pass herbs at any nursery. This week the local HEB (grocery) had spicy Oregano plants out front and I grabbed a few.

I always have a few of the common oregano plants growing always along with basil and dill.

edited: just went and looked and it said: spicy Italian oregano

edited to add: link


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## trc65

Thank for the link. I was wrong in my assumption, "hot and spicy" appears to be a cultivar of regular oregano, not mexican oregano. Too late for me to start any from seed, but I'll have to be on the lookout for some in the stores as soon as it warms up a bit more.


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## Barb

I love seeing all of these progress pics. I don't have a green thumb but I still try to sometimes.

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## Mike Hill

My own Augusta National

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## trc65

Beautiful!

We've got nothing that far along yet. Daffodils are about done, tulips just getting started, and the pear and cherry trees just need some sun and warm temps to really pop. We've had over 3" of rain in the last 4 days, so ready for our " May flowers"

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## sprucegum

Spring dug parsnips, first harvest of 2021.

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## barry richardson

Ray D said:


> Cool pictures in the broccoli patch. Is it possible that the main head has been already harvested and those are secondary heads on side shoots? Can’t really tell from the picture. In Florida, we can actuality get a second smaller harvest and occasionally a third if it doesn’t get too warm. Either way.. cool picture.


This actually Broccolini, a trendy hybrid that is popular in restaurants these days. Taste just like broccoli to me. It is still there and totally seeded out now, and drying up. so I think Tim was right, it is a seed crop...

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## DLJeffs

I envy you folks who can plant an outdoor garden. The deer here pretty much prohibit that. We're restricted to what we can plant in pots on the deck. But that has it's bright side too - means less shovel work for me. We're just coming into spring - the lawn is just coming out of dormancy and the daffodils are starting to bud. The iris leaves are growing longer now too.

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## trc65

We've got lots of deer too, and I need various strategies to keep them at bay. Fencing around tulips, repellent around hosta beds, bird netting over small transplants and electric fence around strawberries and sweet corn. It's a constant battle.

In desperate need of some warmer weather here. Cold frame is full waiting warmer temps, and plants in basement are rapidly outgrowing my setup. 

Remember the pic of the tiny begonias in post #5? Here they are 7 weeks later. Ready to be hardened off and planted.





Here's the whole rack, tomatoes, peppers and petunias on the top, really need to get these outside.





Close up of the petunias.

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## Sprung

With a planned planting/transplanting time of right after Memorial Day, we started seeds indoors on Saturday. The plan was to get that done the previous weekend, but didn't happen. Tomatoes and peppers were started, as well as some flowers.

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## DLJeffs

Tim (@trc65 ) - do you get those little green caterpillars in your petunias? We usually get two nice hanging baskets on the rear deck and no matter what we do for insecticides they get infested with those little green caterpillars. But only petunias - none of the other flowers get them.


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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

We've got up and running, 

Green beans (Italian), Zucchini, Yellow crookneck, cucumbers, cantaloupe, watermelon, about 5-6 varieties of tomatoes, 5-6 varieties of peppers, cabbage, carrots, radicchio, red potatoes, garlic, and onions.

Still waiting on purple hull peas and second planting of cucumbers to sprout...

We could use some rain.

Alan

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

DLJeffs said:


> Tim (@trc65 ) - do you get those little green caterpillars in your petunias? We usually get two nice hanging baskets on the rear deck and no matter what we do for insecticides they get infested with those little green caterpillars. But only petunias - none of the other flowers get them.


Have you tried Bacillus thuringiensis? It will kill most, if not all, caterpillars. 

Alan


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## trc65

Don't get anything like that, at least that I've really noticed. 

You've probably got a moth of some sort that is repeatedly laying eggs on them. The synthetic pyrethroids are generally very effective in killing off most caterpillars. Various brand names, but active ingredients including bifenthrin, cypermethrin, cyfluthrin, permethrin, deltamethrin, esfenvalerate, lambda-cyhalothrin, and others. The pyrethroids all end in -thrin, or -ate, so they are easy to remember. Just about any of the common home/garden sprays in ready to use bottles should work.

If you sprayed them when you first see the caterpillars, and then about every 10 days if you see more, should take care of them.


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## trc65

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> Have you tried Bacillus thuringiensis? It will kill most, if not all, caterpillars.
> 
> Alan




Bt will work on most caterpillars, but timing is critical. Bt has to be sprayed shorty after egg laying ocurs, as effectiveness decreases on later instar (larger) larvae. Not knowing for sure what pest you have, you would probably need something that had two strains of Bt, 'aizawa' and 'kurstaki'.


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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

I'm also waiting to plant my okra. Some call it Cow Horn. The pods will grow to 8-10 inches long and are still tender. The particular seed I've got was first obtained by my FIL in around 1956 in Houma, LA. He gave some seed to his FIL in Epps, LA, and he grew it for the rest of his life. I got my first batch of seed from him in 1980 and have been growing it ever since. I've given seed to my sons and they are growing it. 

In addition to its tender qualities, it tastes really good.

Alan

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## trc65

I've grown okra in the past, but I think it's something you have to grow up with to really like it. Don't hate it, just ambivalent about it. Maybe us northerners just don't know how to cook it :). Having said that, I'm continuing to try "southern" vegetables and will be trying collard greens this year.

Very cool that you've got some heirloom seed that's been kept and maintained through your family.


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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

The West African name for Okra is Gumbo, hence its prominent place in that delightful Louisiana dish. 

Alan

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## drycreek

Late to the party but have 6 tomato plants 2 bell pepper plants 5 yellow squash 2 hills of cucumbers a small 3x4 bed of beats 3 three foot rows of radish 2 rows 20 foot long of sweet corn and 2 twenty foot long rows of early green peas. All of this is in raised beds. I’ll post a few pictures as soon as I get a chance to take a shot or two.

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## William Tanner

Just put in two honeysuckle. Probably will get a couple of mater plants and some pumpkins. That will be it.

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## Wildthings

I've got cucumber, bell peppers, cherry tomatoes and big tomatoes all looking pretty good in container growing. Need to get a barrel and get my hydroponic cukes going!

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## trc65

I did receive a sweet cherry tree today, going to wait until the end of the week to plant it though, snow and temps in the 20's tomorrow night. Also have a sycamore tree and a couple high bush cranberries on the way.


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## Wildthings

Speaking of trees...All 15 of my blueberry trees, my avocado tree and my Myer lemon tree are dead dead from our ice apocalypses back in February. Gonna be digging soon

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## trc65

That sucks!

The cold we are getting tomorrow night has the potential to almost totally wipe out my tree fruit production for the year. Apples, pears apricots, peaches and cherries could all be impacted.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

My fig trees leafed out but fruit production remains to be seen. 

Alan


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## Mike Hill

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> My fig trees leafed out but fruit production remains to be seen.
> 
> Alan


My figs didn't even have any dieback this year even though we got down to 11 or 12. Even have a pretty decent breba crop. Is supposed to get down to 36 in a couple of nights - have my fingers crossed. If you need some more figs, I have about 25 in pots.


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## Mike Hill

Wildthings said:


> Speaking of trees...All 15 of my blueberry trees, my avocado tree and my Myer lemon tree are dead dead from our ice apocalypses back in February. Gonna be digging soon


Blueberry dying from cold. What variety? Oh, I bet you have


Wildthings said:


> I've got cucumber, bell peppers, cherry tomatoes and big tomatoes all looking pretty good in container growing. Need to get a barrel and get my hydroponic cukes going!
> 
> View attachment 207561 View attachment 207562


I choose to ignore this post!


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## Mike Hill

Wildthings said:


> Speaking of trees...All 15 of my blueberry trees, my avocado tree and my Myer lemon tree are dead dead from our ice apocalypses back in February. Gonna be digging soon


Blueberry trees dying of cold. I have some in pots so I can put them on my deck which is one of the few places I have enough sun to grow em and they've survived down to -3 deg. Wait, duh....you probably have rabbiteyes - they are not as hardy. Anyway, that sucks and sorry to hear about the freeze kills. You might hold off digging to see if the roots are still alive. I have things that will die back but then sprout again from the roots.


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## Mike Hill

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> I'm also waiting to plant my okra. Some call it Cow Horn. The pods will grow to 8-10 inches long and are still tender. The particular seed I've got was first obtained by my FIL in around 1956 in Houma, LA. He gave some seed to his FIL in Epps, LA, and he grew it for the rest of his life. I got my first batch of seed from him in 1980 and have been growing it ever since. I've given seed to my sons and they are growing it.
> 
> In addition to its tender qualities, it tastes really good.
> 
> Alan


Well if he got it in 1956 has to be very good okra - 1956 was a very good year! Burpee put out a variety last year that was short, and I planted a couple packs of seed. They started bearing about 1' tall, but then a giant rabbit came into the yard and chewed them all down. This year Baker Creek has a variety that is said to be very high yielding and taller. Maybe I can foil the rabbit's plan and keep the tops out of his reach!


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## Mike Hill

Got me a package today with Ulmus Hollandica "Wredei", Cider Gum, Acer Monumentale, Davidia Lady Sunshine, Davidia Sonoma, and Miyasam Yatsubusa. Unfortunately not any are delicious, but sure can be purdy!

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## sprucegum

DLJeffs said:


> I envy you folks who can plant an outdoor garden. The deer here pretty much prohibit that. We're restricted to what we can plant in pots on the deck. But that has it's bright side too - means less shovel work for me. We're just coming into spring - the lawn is just coming out of dormancy and the daffodils are starting to bud. The iris leaves are growing longer now too.


Electric fence is my go to solution for deer and racoon in the garden. I just put one wire around the garden about 3' high as soon as things start growing. I bait it with strips of aluminum foil with gobs of peanut butter. Deer love peanut butter it gets them fence trained quick. When the corn gets about ripe I put a low wire for the racoons and skunks. Floating row covers are also great for early season protection from frost, insects, and animals.

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## Wildthings

Mike Hill said:


> Blueberry trees dying of cold. I have some in pots so I can put them on my deck which is one of the few places I have enough sun to grow em and they've survived down to -3 deg. Wait, duh....you probably have rabbiteyes - they are not as hardy. Anyway, that sucks and sorry to hear about the freeze kills. You might hold off digging to see if the roots are still alive. I have things that will die back but then sprout again from the roots.


I was wondering if anybody would catch that!! Actually Japanese Blueberry, a fast growing non edible decorative tree. These were mature tall and full!!

Everything green in this picture is dead except for the wisteria. There's 5 blueberry trees in that picture. Far upper right is one


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## Mike Hill

That's a new one to me! Any root burls? Just kidding! But in no uncertain terms that is a very nice outside living room!


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## Wildthings

Mike Hill said:


> That's a new one to me! Any root burls? Just kidding! But in no uncertain terms that is a very nice outside living room!


Thank you. but that's just part of it. Here's more

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## Mike Hill

Wildthings said:


> Thank you. but that's just part of it. Here's more
> 
> View attachment 207630


What do you need a house for - you got your kitchen, your dining room, and your living room! All you need a house for is a bathroom, a closet, and a bedroom! Nice! Real nice! In fact, it looks like all you have to do is to move a little furniture, throw down some powdered dance floor wax and do some fancy two-stepping under Friday night lights!


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## Sprung

Of the seeds we started a week ago in trays, a good amount of the flowers my wife did have started popping up. A few of the tomato seeds I did have started to pop out. Getting anxious to start planting things in the raised bed planter, but we're about a month out from that being able to happen. The gardeners here passed on to us that the general rule of thumb for our area is to wait until Memorial Day to plant seeds or transplant to get past the chance of frost. Or Lyle's rule is that when the maple trees start to bud, then the ground is warm enough to put seed in the ground. (Lyle is an old farmer from our church - one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet.)

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## trc65

Our last average frost free date is April 20 (we had 27° on the 21st), so I'm getting things in the ground. Transplanted onions and planted peas, green onion, radish, lettuce and spinach this weekend. Hope to get tomatoes transplanted later this week. Started planting out flowers too.

The freeze on the 21st was the hardest we've had in a while. Actually froze off asparagus spears. Good news is cold air appeared to settle only in low areas. All the fruit trees are in bloom and don't appear to have been hurt by the freeze. Most of the fruit is planted on a gentle slope and that helps the cold air flow past them instead of settling around them.

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## trc65

Got tomatoes in the ground today. Just dry enough to till, with rain forecast tonight and the next two days. It was now or wait another week.

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## Nature Man

trc65 said:


> Got tomatoes in the ground today. Just dry enough to till, with rain forecast tonight and the next two days. It was now or wait another week.
> 
> View attachment 208280
> 
> View attachment 208281


That is a LOT of tomatoes! Chuck

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## William Tanner

Enjoyed these photos. Thanks

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## trc65

Nature Man said:


> That is a LOT of tomatoes! Chuck


Only 16! Two cherry, 7 roma types and 7 slicing tomatoes. 9 different varieties total. May still put in a few more depending on the weather.

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## Mr. Peet

trc65 said:


> Only 16! Two cherry, 7 roma types and 7 slicing tomatoes. 9 different varieties total. May still put in a few more depending on the weather.


German neighbor used to grow ox-heart tomatoes. Bigger that an official men's softball, shaped like a heart, low seed count, meaty and low acidity. You ever grow any? Been talking about it for years, just have not done it yet.


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## Mr. Peet

Wildthings said:


> I was wondering if anybody would catch that!! Actually Japanese Blueberry, a fast growing non edible decorative tree. These were mature tall and full!!
> 
> Everything green in this picture is dead except for the wisteria. There's 5 blueberry trees in that picture. Far upper right is one
> 
> View attachment 207629


Barry,

If you lost your Japanese blueberry trees, how big were the stems? Is it _Elaeocarpus decipiens_? I don't have any samples of that wood in my reference collection and would be interested...


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## trc65

Mr. Peet said:


> German neighbor used to grow ox-heart tomatoes. Bigger that an official men's softball, shaped like a heart, low seed count, meaty and low acidity. You ever grow any? Been talking about it for years, just have not done it yet.


I've not tried Ox Heart, but after reading some descriptions, it's going on my list for next year. I'm always looking for a good eating tomato that's meaty and good for sauce without cooking it forever. 

I make most of my sauce with "Mariana", a large roma type. The only problem with it, it's determinate, and it's done earlier than I'd like.

A "new" variety I'm trying this year is "Old Brooks". It's an heirloom with early and late blight resistance, acidic with meaty interior, and said to be good for sauce.

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## Mike Hill

Have you ever tried Bradley? Does well around here and has been my fav for years. Best BLT!


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## Wildthings

Mr. Peet said:


> Barry,
> 
> If you lost your Japanese blueberry trees, how big were the stems? Is it _Elaeocarpus decipiens_? I don't have any samples of that wood in my reference collection and would be interested...


@Mr. Peet Hey Mark they are big enough to have trunks not stems and it looks like they are all showing signs of life. Some really good some just teasing me. So I will not be touching them for some time in hopes of rejuvenation. I will keep you in mind if I take any down and yes they are _Elaeocarpus decipiens_

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## trc65

Mike Hill said:


> Have you ever tried Bradley? Does well around here and has been my fav for years. Best BLT!


I haven't, but it's also going on my list for next year!


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## rob3232

Dumped rinse water after cleaning morels in this bed for a few years. Its been at least three years since I harvested any morels but always get at least a couple here every spring.

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## Mike Hill

A mess of morels would sure taste good! I've lost my contact with the family i used to get some from.


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## trc65

Just some random plant and flower pictures around the yard tonight.

Some columbines. These are a cross between our locally native eastern red (Canadian), and the Colorado blue columbine.










A couple bachelor buttons.









A couple of my favorite hostas. 'Blue angel' which is about 5 ft wide and 3 ft tall when fully expanded and 'fire island' with the yellow leaves and red stems.

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## trc65

Here's proof that Aldi is good for more than just bench chisels. About 6 years ago found this little Japanese maple for $10.





Here's a picture of part of the vegetable garden. Tomatoes and peppers on the right, garlic just left of center, and potatoes in the upper left corner. Also have peas, onions, spinach, radishes, lettuce and several herbs planted,but they're tough to see. This part of the garden is ~ 60ft square.

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## Wildthings

trc65 said:


> Here's proof that Aldi is good for more than just *bench chisels*. About 6 years ago found this little Japanese maple for $10.


I have yet to find those chisels at ALDI

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

#1 wife cooked up the first batch of Italian Green Beans (Roma II) and Yellow Crookneck Squash we got today. She also picked this first little Early Girl this evening.

Alan

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

Before the freeze,









After the freeze.









A lot of it is coming back, a bunch more isn't. We've replanted some. Slowly but surely.

Alan

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## trc65

Wildthings said:


> I have yet to find those chisels at ALDI


If you go to your local big box store, pick up some cold rolled steel and grind some bevels, you'd be about halfway there to the quality of the Aldi chisels.

If you know someone that likes to open paint cans with chisels, or use them as screwdrivers, the Aldi ones would be the perfect gift!


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## Mike Hill

We.be built 4 Aldis and worked on their distribution warehouse and ain't seen them either


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## Wildthings

trc65 said:


> If you go to your local big box store, pick up some cold rolled steel and grind some bevels, you'd be about halfway there to the quality of the Aldi chisels.
> 
> If you know someone that likes to open paint cans with chisels, or use them as screwdrivers, the Aldi ones would be the perfect gift!


hmmmm Paul Sellers says they are really good "inexpensive" chisels. Good to know!


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## Trob115

Here is one of our daylily beds. They are getting ready to put on a show.
I've got several hybridized plants that should bloom for the first time this year. One should bloom tomorrow

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

I've noticed a lot of people put substantial fences around their daylily beds. They must be great food for something. 

Alan


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## Sprung

Our tomatoes and peppers that we started from seed are making a slow start, but they're coming. Still a number of pepper seeds that haven't emerged yet, but we get another one popping out every day or so.

This morning, after getting some more sand into the boys' sandbox, I dug a couple holes to transplant the elderberry bushes we picked up. Then put some seed in the ground - green onions, butter lettuce, cucumbers, and green beans. Checked on the blackberry plants we were given last fall and transplanted. As of right now, no signs of life, so we'll see what happens there.

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## trc65

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> I've noticed a lot of people put substantial fences around their daylily beds. They must be great food for something.
> 
> Alan


Deer love them! Last year I ran out of repellent, and before I could get more out, the deer came through and ate the buds off all of them.


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## Trob115

trc65 said:


> Deer love them! Last year I ran out of repellent, and before I could get more out, the deer came through and ate the buds off all of them.


Yes, deer prefer them over most browse. I also have 2 strand electric fence on our other beds.

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## Wildthings

I've got 5 cherry tomato bushes and they're loaded.




One cucumber in a 5 gallon bucket, just for fun, and it's gone crazy





Bought one little pot of cucumbers that had 10 plants in it. Set them up in a 55 ga drum hydroponic style figuring I'd lose half of them. Been four days and all of them are putting on new leaves..go figure... Now to pluck some out cuz that size barrel is only good for 3-4 plants

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## Trob115

Trob115 said:


> Here is one of our daylily beds. They are getting ready to put on a show.
> I've got several hybridized plants that should bloom for the first time this year. One should bloom tomorrow
> 
> View attachment 208840

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

We've got plenty of deer around here but (knocking furiously on Mesquite side table) they haven't bothered anything. We have a dog, but he's likely scared of deer or he just doesn't care if they come and go. I found tracks in the garden one morning and found them snooping around the next night. I peppered them with some #8s and they haven't been back (in the garden). They troop by every morning and evening but steer clear of the yard.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

We picked about ten Zucchini, some Yellow Squash, and three grocery bags of green beans this afternoon. We got busy and had a bunch of it for supper.

Alan

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## Mr. Peet

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> We picked about ten Zucchini, some Yellow Squash, and three grocery bags of green beans this afternoon. We got busy and had a bunch of it for supper.
> 
> Alan


Show off. Our Zucchini is just breaking ground, still potted as frost risks linger, even though peepers say Friday should be it.


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## trc65

Getting set up to get the rest of the flowers into the ground or pots. About 13 flats to go.

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## William Tanner

Got to say that you have an interesting place. Nice.

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## Sprung

The seeds we started have finally started to take off. Note for next year: I'm going to start seeds indoors about two weeks earlier than I did this year.

Seeds I planted in the ground have started to peek out. Forgot to plant dill and basil, so just did that today in our herb pot (which also has some chives we transplanted.) We did pick up a couple tomato and a few pepper plants of varieties we didn't start seed for and transplanted them.

We've got a volunteer lettuce plant growing, which we're looking forward to picking a few leaves off of in a week or two. Also discovered some volunteer cherry tomato plants (guessing tomato, based upon their location). One or two of those might get transplanted into another spot in the garden with the rest pulled, otherwise they'll be fighting with the green beans for space.

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## trc65

View from the kitchen window. Not bad, except for the propane tank.





It has to be Memorial day weekend because the peonies just started to bloom (along with the iris).





A little closer view of a peony



And the iris.

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## Barb

trc65 said:


> View from the kitchen window. Not bad, except for the propane tank.
> 
> View attachment 209754
> 
> It has to be Memorial day weekend because the peonies just started to bloom (along with the iris).
> 
> View attachment 209758
> 
> A little closer view of a peonyView attachment 209755
> 
> And the iris.View attachment 209757
> 
> View attachment 209756


Very nice spread and flowers you got there. :)

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## Mr. Peet

trc65 said:


> View from the kitchen window. Not bad, except for the propane tank.
> 
> View attachment 209754
> 
> It has to be Memorial day weekend because the peonies just started to bloom (along with the iris).
> 
> View attachment 209758
> 
> A little closer view of a peonyView attachment 209755
> 
> And the iris.View attachment 209757
> 
> View attachment 209756


Wonder if you could take an air raft and inflate it under and around the propane tank to disguise it as a giant yard hog dog????

Calling for rain and frost here this weekend, hope not, we planted last week.

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## trc65

As soon as it dries out a little more, flowers will be planted in front of the tank to partially hide it. Although it sticks out like a sore thumb in the picture, I don't really notice the tank, it's just something that has always been there.

Haven't been able to plant anything for almost 3 weeks we've been so wet. We're supposed to have a night or two in the 40's, but only frost risk is up near IL - WI border.


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## Nature Man

trc65 said:


> View from the kitchen window. Not bad, except for the propane tank.
> 
> View attachment 209754
> 
> It has to be Memorial day weekend because the peonies just started to bloom (along with the iris).
> 
> View attachment 209758
> 
> A little closer view of a peonyView attachment 209755
> 
> And the iris.View attachment 209757
> 
> View attachment 209756


Beautiful yard! Looks like a large river in the background. Ever give you any troubles with flooding? Chuck

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## trc65

Nature Man said:


> Beautiful yard! Looks like a large river in the background. Ever give you any troubles with flooding? Chuck


Not a river, just bleached out corn stalks in the neighbors field (that part of the picture is overexposed which hides the detail). Soybeans haven't been planted there yet as we've been so wet.

We do have plenty of large creeks around here that will occasionally flood over some of our roads. House though is probably 75' elevation above any of them.

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## Trob115

trc65 said:


> View from the kitchen window. Not bad, except for the propane tank.
> 
> View attachment 209754
> 
> It has to be Memorial day weekend because the peonies just started to bloom (along with the iris).
> 
> View attachment 209758
> 
> A little closer view of a peonyView attachment 209755
> 
> And the iris.View attachment 209757
> 
> View attachment 209756


Beautiful flowers. Our iris blooms are long gone. Usually they are mid April blooming here.

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## trc65

Still some white tips on them, but picked enough to have some   tonight after supper!

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## Mr. Peet

Watertown NY had frost that froze the strawberries Saturday morning. Luckily, we had rain at home, in the 30's, no frost over the weekend.

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## trc65

This is what happens to strawberries after a few days in the 80's.

Picked these in about 45 minutes. Only about 1/3 through the patch.

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## Herb G.

Apollo 20, and Tunguska Thunder**ck.
Crazy big purple buds.

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## Nubsnstubs

trc65 said:


> Not a river, just bleached out corn stalks in the neighbors field (that part of the picture is overexposed which hides the detail). Soybeans haven't been planted there yet as we've been so wet.
> 
> We do have plenty of large creeks around here that will occasionally flood over some of our roads. House though is probably 75' elevation above any of them.


Tim, what you could do for fun is to get a boat and put it out near that "island", and get the grandkids in it with fishing poles. Get back to where the above picture was taken earlier. Take another picture if it's not too late. Show it to your neighbor and ask him if he knows where this is. It might get you in trouble, but it also could be fun in showing how optical illusions work. The Bleached Out Corn Stalks River. ........... Jerry (in Tucson)

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## trc65

The pile keeps getting bigger. Up to 7 gallons now, maybe another gallon and a half to go. Taking a break, picking in 89° heat is tough!

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## Nubsnstubs

trc65 said:


> The pile keeps getting bigger. Up to 7 gallons now, maybe another gallon and a half to go. Taking a break, picking in 89° heat is tough!
> 
> View attachment 210402


Cool about the strawberrys, but 89 degrees?? It's not even warm yet. What do you do with all those strawberrys/berries? (Spell check has picked up this one, but not the first one in the first sentence. Hence, both spellings) ............. Jerry (in Tucson)


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## Nature Man

Those strawberries look delicious! Chuck

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## trc65

Nubsnstubs said:


> Cool about the strawberrys, but 89 degrees?? It's not even warm yet. What do you do with all those strawberrys/berries? (Spell check has picked up this one, but not the first one in the first sentence. Hence, both spellings) ............. Jerry (in Tucson)


Yeah, but it's 89° and 55% humidity. 

We will eat as many fresh berries as we can, give away some to family and friends, but the bulk will be made into jam and I'll make a few batches of strawberry syrup that is fantastic on ice cream and cheesecake.

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## Eric Rorabaugh

It was a beautiful day here. 85° but low humidity. Good day to be on boat patrol

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## Mr. Peet

Was sunny, muggy and 83 degrees on the hill I was working today, dropped 1,000 feet into the city of Scranton at 4pm, 92 degrees with 85% humidity. That was rough for me. Glad it was 79 at my house when I got home. Always amazes me what a few hundred feet elevation does as well as a few thousand feet.

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## Wildthings

Wildthings said:


> Bought one little pot of cucumbers that had 10 plants in it. Set them up in a 55 ga drum hydroponic style figuring I'd lose half of them. Been four days and all of them are putting on new leaves..go figure... Now to pluck some out cuz that size barrel is only good for 3-4 plants
> 
> View attachment 208853


From post #93 on page 5






That picture was May 15th and this one was 4 days ago.......not quite a month.. easy growing in a hydroponic solution




The wood is to shed the 14" of rain we've had in the last week. Don't want it going into the drum

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## Trob115

Was a nice muggy 86 here today and the humidity was a tolerable 70% percent ha. Today was a good practice for our 85-90% summer humidity days.
Our tomatoes and vegetables are doing well. Won't be long before we start picking a good bit.

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## rob3232

Herb G. said:


> Apollo 20, and Tunguska Thunder**ck.
> Crazy big purple buds.


What? herb you been smoking?? Sorry, I couldn't resist

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## Herb G.

I was only joking. I can't grow it...yet.

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## rob3232

Finally night time temps. are high enough to plant peppers. Put tomatoes in last week. New strawberries are looking good with a few blossoms. Peas and beets looking good also. It’s getting hot here so I hope that they all will survive!

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## Sprung

Well, I got stupid and moved the pepper and tomato seedlings outside too soon. Lost them all. So today we made a run for plants to transplant. We'd already purchased and transplanted a few tomato and pepper plants. Today we filled out the bed. We also bought some leeks and got those transplanted as well. We got some straw to put down as well to help hold moisture in the ground and I got the soaker hose set up. One of the challenges we've had with out raise bed setup is how quickly it can dry out, thus how often we need to water it, prior to the plants growing large enough to shade the ground. And it's been very dry here - we really need some rain.

Here's where things currently stand. We've got various tomato and pepper plants, green beans, cucumbers, leeks, butter lettuce, green onions, and strawberries growing in the raised beds. There are some various herbs in pots on our back patio. Yeah, I know the area with mulch is filled with weeds... They popped up around the ground cloth and through the seem (even though I folded it). We'll pull it out next spring and put new cloth and mulch down.





We had a volunteer butter lettuce plant from one going to seed last year, so we've been able to pick some leaves every few days as of late. And the first strawberry got picked today.





No pictures, but the two elderberry bushes we transplanted are doing well. The blackberries we transplanted in the fall didn't seem to survive - which was also the case for the people who gave them to us. But the raspberries that were there, that were cut down before we moved in, are really starting to come back and take off and we're happy about that. The rhubarb that we transplanted last year is taking off more. They say to wait two years before harvesting, so next year my wife is excited to start harvesting - and in the meantime she knows people she can get rhubarb from to cut and freeze/make things with. My wife has also been planting a lot of flowers around the house, mainly along the back, and it's looking very nice.

We're giving thought to adding another raised bed next year, but aren't certain yet.

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## trc65

Very cool setup Matt. Your tomatoes and peppers may be behind where mine are, but I'm jealous of your beans! We've had such crazy wet weather I haven't planted any beans yet, just a few days ago got the sweet corn planted and hoping to get beans in this weekend. 

Also working on getting mulch down, I use a thick layer of grass clippings, but that will take me a couple of weeks to get everything covered. Too big of a garden, and too many other things need attention...

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## rob3232

Looks great Matt! Our strawberries are all white now but hopefully not too long before they turn. Peas are amazing for the first time in years. I’m happy with what we get as I’m sure you are also.

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## Wildthings

Wildthings said:


> From post #93 on page 5
> 
> View attachment 210443
> 
> 
> That picture was May 15th and this one was 4 days ago.......not quite a month.. easy growing in a hydroponic solution
> 
> View attachment 210442
> The wood is to shed the 14" of rain we've had in the last week. Don't want it going into the drum


The second picture above was June 1st this one is June 10th

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## Mike Hill

Lil Mikey's been pulling weeds for a while now, and has finally gotten some reward. Let's jes say Lil Mikey likes his girls to wear frilly things




And to smell good!

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## Mike Hill

rob3232 said:


> Finally night time temps. are high enough to plant peppers. Put tomatoes in last week. New strawberries are looking good with a few blossoms. Peas and beets looking good also. It’s getting hot here so I hope that they all will survive!
> 
> View attachment 210514
> 
> View attachment 210515
> 
> View attachment 210516
> 
> View attachment 210517
> 
> View attachment 210518
> 
> View attachment 210519
> 
> View attachment 210520


Rob, love your raised beds! And am jealous of your peas! I can't grow them - well, let me explain better - if I could get Lil Mikey to get going earlier and get them in the ground earlier he could have peas and sweet peas - but........................

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## Wildthings

Wildthings said:


> The second picture above was June 1st this one is June 10th
> 
> View attachment 210777


ATTACK of the striped cucumber beetle!! Die you little suckers DIE!


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## Mike Hill

Wildthings said:


> ATTACK of the striped cucumber beetle!! Die you little suckers DIE!


I feel your pain! Although the main nemesis of my cucurbits around my yard is squash vine borer!


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## Wildthings

Mike Hill said:


> I feel your pain! Although the main nemesis of my cucurbits around my yard is squash vine borer!


Are you using anything on them? Spinosad?


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## Mike Hill

I don't try anymore - don't have the space (i.e. sunlight) My house is approaching 80 years old and all the trees are mature and tall. Plus, when I had my bees - I stopped using pesticides because of them. Now, I'd use it, but no sun. Had heard that since the plants are not near the ground, that hydroponic cucurbits are not bothered by SVB.


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## Wildthings

Mike Hill said:


> Had heard that since the plants are not near the ground, that hydroponic cucurbits are not bothered by SVB.


That makes sense


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## Mike Hill

I tell ya - I like 'em frilly - It don't matter the color of their dress. Flowers are finally coming on!

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## trc65

Pretty Ladies!

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## trc65

Cherry pudding this weekend!

Neighbor called tonight asking if we wanted any cherries. Got a storm coming through tonight with projected 2" size hail, and neighbor had already picked what they wanted. Drove over and picked a couple gallons in about a half hour. Glad to have these as my cherry tree will have it's first crop this year, but will only get a quart or so off of it.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

Cherries, I love cherries.... I've got some fig trees but no cherries. Me and the squirrels have been posturing around the yard. They know they are getting ripe and I know they are getting ripe. I have a 22, they don't....

Alan

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## ripjack13

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> Cherries, I love cherries.... I've got some fig trees but no cherries. Me and the squirrels have been posturing around the yard. They know they are getting ripe and I know they are getting ripe. I have a 22, they don't....
> 
> Alan


I didnt know they liked cherries.
I've been wanting a cherry tree for a while now....


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## ripjack13

trc65 said:


> a thick layer of grass clippings,


Does that attract slugs or is just my garden?


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## Sprung

Good looking cherries, Tim. We contemplated planting some apple and cherry trees in our yard, but have decided not to and rather go with something ornamental.

But we're also on the doorstep of Door County, WI, with a good number of cherry and apple orchards within a 30 minute drive, so finding a place to pick cherries and apples for a reasonable cost is not difficult.

After you pit the cherries, make some cherry pit syrup before you toss the pits out. Mix 1c of cherry pits with 1/2c sugar and let sit, covered, until the sugar has dissolved - probably 12 to 24 hours. Sugar is hydroscopic, so it will draw water out of the pits, along with a lot of good cherry flavor. After the sugar is dissolved, strain through a fine mesh strainer. If you want to get any sugar, etc. left on the pits, a teaspoon or two of water will help. Mix a pinch of salt into the syrup to balance the flavor. And then you've got a delicious cherry syrup great for mixing into drinks, a little over ice cream, etc.

We like using it to make Old Fashioneds with - a splash of the cherry pit syrup over ice, brandy or bourbon (my wife prefers brandy, I prefer bourbon), and then we use lemon or lime flavored sparking water in place of the Squirt or 7up.

We also like making cherry bounce. Put 1c cherries into a quart mason jar, 1/2 to 1c sugar, depending on how sweet you want it, and top up the jar with your booze of choice. I like it with bourbon. Brandy is also good. Some do vodka. I have heard rum is good and want to try that. Let sit on the shelf for 4 to 6 months, then it's ready to drink - and the cherries to eat.

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## Sprung

BTW, 1c of sugar in the bounce is way too sweet for us. But I know some people like it that sweet. We've done about 1/2c before and I will probably do about 1/3c in the jars for this year's batch.


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## trc65

ripjack13 said:


> Does that attract slugs or is just my garden?


We don't ever really have a problem with slugs, clippings or not. I use a really thick layer, 6-8" deep, before it compresses from the rain and walking. I'd think the slugs wouldn't like going across the dried grass, but lots of differences between our areas....

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## Mr. Peet

Sprung said:


> Good looking cherries, Tim. We contemplated planting some apple and cherry trees in our yard, but have decided not to and rather go with something ornamental.
> 
> But we're also on the doorstep of Door County, WI, with a good number of cherry and apple orchards within a 30 minute drive, so finding a place to pick cherries and apples for a reasonable cost is not difficult.
> 
> After you pit the cherries, make some cherry pit syrup before you toss the pits out. Mix 1c of cherry pits with 1/2c sugar and let sit, covered, until the sugar has dissolved - probably 12 to 24 hours. Sugar is hydroscopic, so it will draw water out of the pits, along with a lot of good cherry flavor. After the sugar is dissolved, strain through a fine mesh strainer. If you want to get any sugar, etc. left on the pits, a teaspoon or two of water will help. Mix a pinch of salt into the syrup to balance the flavor. And then you've got a delicious cherry syrup great for mixing into drinks, a little over ice cream, etc.
> 
> We like using it to make Old Fashioneds with - a splash of the cherry pit syrup over ice, brandy or bourbon (my wife prefers brandy, I prefer bourbon), and then we use lemon or lime flavored sparking water in place of the Squirt or 7up.
> 
> We also like making cherry bounce. Put 1c cherries into a quart mason jar, 1/2 to 1c sugar, depending on how sweet you want it, and top up the jar with your booze of choice. I like it with bourbon. Brandy is also good. Some do vodka. I have heard rum is good and want to try that. Let sit on the shelf for 4 to 6 months, then it's ready to drink - and the cherries to eat.


I'm surprised the cherry syrup made like that doesn't draw cyanide with it...


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## trc65

Definitely going to make some pit syrup, never heard of that before, but sounds great!

We've also got our wild black raspberries just starting to ripen. Will freeze some for pies and make jam and syrup with the rest.

When I was living in WI, we would make a couple trips a year to Door County as you said, once in summer for the cherries and another in the fall for the apples. As close as you are to Door County, I wouldn't have planted the fruit trees either.

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## trc65

Mr. Peet said:


> I'm surprised the cherry syrup made like that doesn't draw cyanide with it...


Did a little reading to check on that. Every source I read indicated that as long as you aren't cracking the pits, the amygdalin (cyanide precursor present in the inner kernal) won't leach out. If one wanted to be overly cautious, boiling the pits with water and sugar to make a syrup, would "neutralize" the amygdalin.

Interesting factoid - in Europe and other areas, the inner kernal called _noyaux_ is harvested, heat treated, and used as a flavoring agent that is similar to bitter almonds.

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## Sprung

Yeah, the pit syrup is good - has great cherry flavor and doesn't take much to bring a nice flavor or a little sweetness to a drink. We stumbled upon it by accident last year. My wife was thinking there was something you could do with cherry pits, but she couldn't remember what it was. Cherry pit syrup showed up in the search results. It was definitely not what she was maybe thinking it was - she still doesn't know what it was she was hoping we'd find in a search result - but we tried the cherry pit syrup and it was very good. I read the same notes about the cyanide/amygdalin as Tim did.

I confirmed with my wife that this year she does not want us to get the cherries pitted so we can make more pit syrup. Good thing I bought a nice pitter last year when one of the times we went cherry picking - and picked 15 quarts of cherries - to get up to the barn and find out that their pitting machine broke while we were picking. We bought one of these and it works pretty well.

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## trc65

Thanks for the link on the pitter, going to pick one up, especially with my tree coming into production.

Glad we went and picked earlier. Our dry spell is now over. Just finished a "little" thunderstorm with 45mph winds (last reading on weather station before power went out), nickle sized hail, and 2.5"rain in 20 minutes. At 9:00 pm, the prediction was for 0.2" rain for the night, now prediction is for 4.75" by morning. I know that's not a lot compared to what you guys in the south get from some of those storms, but it's a lot for us.

Going to be a long, hot night without power. The way the winds were blowing, a good portion of our area is without power and probably lots of trees down on power lines.

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## Sprung

One note on that pitter - if your cherries are on the smaller side, like the Montmorency Tart I pitted with it last year, I found that it works best to feed a few at a time from a handful rather than just load up the hopper and let gravity feed it for you. The small ones sometimes fall through easily, moreso if there's a large pile behind them. Even hand feeding them like that, it was easy to get into a rhythm where I was feeding them as fast as I could work the plunger. A few will get through with pits still in them. But it sure beats doing it one or two at a time.

We had a high wind storm here last night, but not as much rain, nor as heavy of a rain. I thought the power was certainly going to go out here, but it didn't. Hope your power is back on soon!

But the rain we did get was so welcome. We haven't had rain in a while and everything was so dry. Not sure how much we got - I doubt it was even an inch. But before it rained, we were more than 5" behind normal rainfall.


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## Nubsnstubs

4.5" of rain in less than 12 hours in Tucson would be a real turd floater. We need some, but I have all kinds of cabinets outside I'm working on, so I don't need to see any rain for at least another week.... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## trc65

Got power back finally, 3.5" in the rain gauge, but probably more with the horizontal winds. 

Good news is I won't have to water anything for quite a while, bad news is I'm going to be spending that time with a chainsaw......

A red and a white pine snapped off about 10 ft up, the largest of the two is about 18" diameter at the break. At least they had the good sense to miss a couple of young walnut trees and tulip poplar when they fell. 

Lost about a 8" diameter branch out of the top of a red maple, and the silver maple shed a lot of 2-4" branches. 

Big mess mostly from the pines, but no structures damaged, so all is good. I'll post some pictures later, but need to let devices charge now that power is back on.

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## Barb

trc65 said:


> Got power back finally, 3.5" in the rain gauge, but probably more with the horizontal winds.
> 
> Good news is I won't have to water anything for quite a while, bad news is I'm going to be spending that time with a chainsaw......
> 
> A red and a white pine snapped off about 10 ft up, the largest of the two is about 18" diameter at the break. At least they had the good sense to miss a couple of young walnut trees and tulip poplar when they fell.
> 
> Lost about a 8" diameter branch out of the top of a red maple, and the silver maple shed a lot of 2-4" branches.
> 
> Big mess mostly from the pines, but no structures damaged, so all is good. I'll post some pictures later, but need to let devices charge now that power is back on.


I'm glad it turned out well in the end.

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## trc65

Here are some pictures of the damage.

The two trees snapped off 12-15' high.





The one just missed the young walnut.





Braches scattered over ~ 2 acres of the front yard. In the back just behind the power pole is the red maple that lost it's top.





A little different view showing the pines that are left along our drive.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

Down here when we get pine tree damage like that during a thunderstorm it is an indication that there may have been a little twister come through. These yellow pines are pretty flexible and it takes a strong sustained wind to break one off. When that hurricane went through Lake Charles a year or so ago it sheared the tops off of all the trees along the interstate. Cat 4 winds will do that. 

Alan

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## William Tanner

Tim, do you have plans for using the trees that are down?


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## trc65

Nothing more than cutting them up and dragging to the burn pile. I may cut a blank or two from the larger pine, but really have no interest in saving much of them.


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## William Tanner

trc65 said:


> Nothing more than cutting them up and dragging to the burn pile. I may cut a blank or two from the larger pine, but really have no interest in saving much of them.


Thanks Tim. That was my guess.

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## trc65

I did save a small crotch section out of the red maple (8"diameter main branch) that I sealed. Will spin it sometime and see if any nice grain shows up to make a vase.

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## trc65

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> Down here when we get pine tree damage like that during a thunderstorm it is an indication that there may have been a little twister come through. These yellow pines are pretty flexible and it takes a strong sustained wind to break one off. When that hurricane went through Lake Charles a year or so ago it sheared the tops off of all the trees along the interstate. Cat 4 winds will do that.
> 
> Alan


Just heard that we did have a small EF 1 tornado that was confirmed a few miles east of us. 

On the way to town tonight to grab a sandwich, saw a ~1500 bu hopper bin laying in the middle of corn field about a half mile from where it was previously sitting.


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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

One day the neighbor lady called me over. She had a peach tree in her back yard and she said she had gotten all the peaches that she wanted and I could have the rest if I wanted them. I, of course, said sure and went back there to see the tree. Lots of peaches on the higher branches. I asked her if I could bring a ladder over the next day to get them and she OKed that. It was late so I went home to count mason jars. That night a storm blew in and I was pretty sure a little twister went over the house. I twisted a bunch of limbs out of the oak trees. The next morning I found out that it had hit a storage facility about 500 yards from the house and destroyed it. 

So, I got my buckets and ladder and went to get peaches. There were none. None on the tree and none on the ground. I mean every last peach on that tree had been sucked up and then it rained peaches somewhere. Didn't hurt or move another thing in her yard. 

Those little dudes just hop around sometimes eating peaches and destroying buildings...

Alan

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## William Tanner

trc65 said:


> Just heard that we did have a small EF 1 tornado that was confirmed a few miles east of us.
> 
> On the way to town tonight to grab a sandwich, saw a ~1500 bu hopper bin laying in the middle of corn field about a half mile from where it was previously sitting.


That is wild. Hope that’s it for you.


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## trc65

Just watched the local weather, and talking about another couple rounds tomorrow. One in the morning with just minor thunderstorms. Then clearing around noon with sunshine all afternoon. Late afternoon, storms will start again with winds up to 70 mph and potential for 2"+ hail. Not really worried about the hail, historically, we just don't get much. The winds I can do without.... Hoping it stays cloudy all afternoon...


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## William Tanner

trc65 said:


> Just watched the local weather, and talking about another couple rounds tomorrow. One in the morning with just minor thunderstorms. Then clearing around noon with sunshine all afternoon. Late afternoon, storms will start again with winds up to 70 mph and potential for 2"+ hail. Not really worried about the hail, historically, we just don't get much. The winds I can do without.... Hoping it stays cloudy all afternoon...


Will be thinking about you. Alexa is handy to check on weather conditions. We use that feature to see what is going on.

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## Mr. Peet

trc65 said:


> Just watched the local weather, and talking about another couple rounds tomorrow. One in the morning with just minor thunderstorms. Then clearing around noon with sunshine all afternoon. Late afternoon, storms will start again with winds up to 70 mph and potential for 2"+ hail. Not really worried about the hail, historically, we just don't get much. The winds I can do without.... Hoping it stays cloudy all afternoon...


I would just cut the top off that white pine and red pine flat across and put a bird house on both and enjoy them a few more years before hitting the burn pile.

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## Mike Hill

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> Down here when we get pine tree damage like that during a thunderstorm it is an indication that there may have been a little twister come through. These yellow pines are pretty flexible and it takes a strong sustained wind to break one off. When that hurricane went through Lake Charles a year or so ago it sheared the tops off of all the trees along the interstate. Cat 4 winds will do that.
> 
> Alan


Alan, you beat me to it. 

Tim, so glad all you experienced was some snapped trees!

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## trc65

Dug a hill of potatoes for supper tonight. Largest is about 2" diameter. Happy to report they were delicious!

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## trc65

Mr. Peet said:


> I would just cut the top off that white pine and red pine flat across and put a bird house on both and enjoy them a few more years before hitting the burn pile.



That's a good idea! Both still have a few branches below the breaking point and putting a house on top of each of them gives me a good excuse for not cutting them down


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## trc65

Well, all is not bad news with the wind damage. Took a walk tonight to check raspberries on backside of the property and look what I found.

Nice sized honey locust blown down. Approximately 20" DBH, should cut up into a lot of blanks. Only problem is with beans up in the adjacent field, no way to get to it other than walking. Guess it will have to wait until fall to get any of it out of there.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

One of the worst problems with good dense hardwoods is getting the tree from where it grew to where it can be used without a major construction project just to get the tree.

I've got a couple of big mesquite trees, dead but still standing, that may as well be on the moon for all it's going to take to get them out. But I guess that's why they get so big. Nobody is whacking at them for their whole lives....

Alan

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## William Tanner

That might make some interesting blanks Tim. Like the photos.

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## trc65

@Sprung 
Got some cherry pit syrup going, and wow! Only been a few hours and already tastes incredible. Going to let it go overnight before I strain and bottle it, but I don't anticipate it lasting long.....

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## Sprung

Yup, it won't last long, lol! Good thing is you don't need much of it to give some good cherry flavor to whatever you're adding it to.

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## trc65

The fruit just keeps coming. Wild black raspberries are starting to ripen. Picked a little over a quart tonight.

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## Wildthings

Update on my hydroponic cucumbers. Doing great. pulled about a dozen so far but I can see at least 2 dozen more in various stages. My only concern now is running out of water. Putting more water in is very tricky. If you put too much you'll drown them. DAMHIKT. It's still about 35-40% full I think!

First picture May 18th ---------- 2nd June 1st ---------- 3rd 6/10 added netting ------------- 4th 6/29 vines have grown up to top of netting--------------------------------------------------------------------------- needed step ladder to help ----------and back down halfway



 

 

 




Actually there's 2 plants in the left cup and 3 in the right. I should have thinned them to no more than 3 plants but we'll see

Typical fruit of my labor...well actually no labor in this style growing

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## Mike Hill

You know they make toilet bowl valves and floats that can solve your adding water problem.

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## Ray D

Wildthings said:


> Update on my hydroponic cucumbers. Doing great. pulled about a dozen so far but I can see at least 2 dozen more in various stages. My only concern now is running out of water. Putting more water in is very tricky. If you put too much you'll drown them. DAMHIKT. It's still about 35-40% full I think!
> 
> First picture May 18th ---------- 2nd June 1st ---------- 3rd 6/10 added netting ------------- 4th 6/29 vines have grown up to top of netting--------------------------------------------------------------------------- needed step ladder to help ----------and back down halfway
> 
> View attachment 211998 View attachment 211999 View attachment 212000 View attachment 212001
> 
> 
> Actually there's 2 plants in the left cup and 3 in the right. I should have thinned them to no more than 3 plants but we'll see
> 
> Typical fruit of my labor...well actually no labor in this style growing
> 
> View attachment 212002


Very nice. Will a sight glass help?

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## Wildthings

Mike Hill said:


> You know they make toilet bowl valves and floats that can solve your adding water problem.





Ray D said:


> Very nice. Will a sight glass help?


It would have to be refilled with the fertilizer/water solution not just plain tap water otherwise interesting ideas. A sight glass would tell me where the level is but refilling it may drown the plants. As the level goes down the roots grow and follow it down. "Air" roots also follow it down staying in the vapor space above it. When you refill it, you may flood the air roots thus drowning the plant. Keeping a constant level or supplying enough for the entire growing season initially is ideal. Here's a pic of my BIL with his first attempt showing the mass of roots

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Float valve with a 5 gallon water jug (clear) on a raised stand for gravity feed. Kinda like a camp sink setup. Fertilizer mix will be visible as it drains into the barrel keeping air roots from expanding due to there not being any extra air to expand into.

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## barry richardson

Here's my latest crop, was walking through Target a while back and saw these kits on the discount shelf. Still cost 10 bucks, not sure if there is 10 bucks worth of mushrooms there, but it was kind of neat to watch them grow, took about 8 days to get to this point, harvested them last night and put some on a pizza. They are oyster mushrooms. Might try it again, I see there are all kinds of kits on line...

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## Mike Hill

2feathers Creative Making said:


> Float valve with a 5 gallon water jug (clear) on a raised stand for gravity feed. Kinda like a camp sink setup. Fertilizer mix will be visible as it drains into the barrel keeping air roots from expanding due to there not being any extra air to expand into.


Kinda what I as going to suggest,


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## Mike Hill

barry richardson said:


> Here's my latest crop, was walking through Target a while back and saw these kits on the discount shelf. Still cost 10 bucks, not sure if there is 10 bucks worth of mushrooms there, but it was kind of neat to watch them grow, took about 8 days to get to this point, harvested them last night and put some on a pizza. They are oyster mushrooms. Might try it again, I see there are all kinds of kits on line...
> View attachment 212023


I would think you would get more than one crop. 

There are other ways to get your mushroom growing fix on. The spores can be bought on other strata - innoculated wood plugs being one popular option. Might look up what growing media is best of good for oysters.

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## barry richardson

Mike Hill said:


> I would think you would get more than one crop.
> 
> There are other ways to get your mushroom growing fix on. The spores can be bought on other strata - innoculated wood plugs being one popular option. Might look up what growing media is best of good for oysters.


thanks for the tip Mike, Yea it suggest turning the brick of substrate around and growing some on the other side, which is what I'm doing now, I'm finding lots of info on line on mushroom growing...


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## trc65

@Nubsnstubs 
A while back, Jerry set me some saguaro and fishhook pincushion cactus seeds. Finally got them seeded on Saturday, and happy to report that the first couple saguaro have sprouted. Didn't think they'd be this quick to gerinate, but I guess cacti are genetically programmed to get going quickly when conditions are favorable. 

The fishhook haven't germinated yet, but I can see the radicle pushing out the seed coat so they won't be far behind.

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## Nubsnstubs

trc65 said:


> @Nubsnstubs
> A while back, Jerry set me some saguaro and fishhook pincushion cactus seeds. Finally got them seeded on Saturday, and happy to report that the first couple saguaro have sprouted. Didn't think they'd be this quick to gerinate, but I guess cacti are genetically programmed to get going quickly when conditions are favorable.
> 
> The fishhook haven't germinated yet, but I can see the radicle pushing out the seed coat so they won't be far behind.
> 
> View attachment 212310


Is this picture a Fishhook or Saguaro? Can't wait to see more pictures as they grow. In about 2 weeks, they should all have a thorn or two sticking out of the center with two leaf things on either side of it. It's amazing to see the roots like that. 
How many seeds did you put on the ground? ....... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## sprucegum

Corn and peas

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## trc65

Nubsnstubs said:


> Is this picture a Fishhook or Saguaro? Can't wait to see more pictures as they grow. In about 2 weeks, they should all have a thorn or two sticking out of the center with two leaf things on either side of it. It's amazing to see the roots like that.
> How many seeds did you put on the ground? ....... Jerry (in Tucson)


That picture is the saguaro. No emerged roots on the fishhook as of last night.

I didn't count the seeds I planted, just took a small pinch and spread them around the 4" pot - maybe 20-30 seeds. As fast as these germinated, I'd guess the germination percentage is pretty high.

I'll definitely take more pictures as these grow.

Just for scale, that little seedling is no more than 1/16" tall. The tiny roots you see are pretty typical looking (no matter the type of seed) when you germinate tiny seeds on the surface of soil.

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## trc65

More pictures of the saguaro seedlings. No emergence yet on the fishhook cacti.

Two days after germination (emergence) and some drastic changes. 

First though a picture showing more detail of the tiny seedlings emerging. Center frame shows how a seedling emerges right out of the seed coat which is still hanging on top. 





When I first looked at the pot tonight (I was out of town last night), I expected to see a whole bunch of green. While there was a little bit of green, here is what jumped out at me. In only two days they have changed from skinny green seedlings to fat pinkish little plants that are ~ 1/8" tall and wide.





Here is a closeup of one seedling and you can see some of the texture as well as the micro nub of the growing point right at the center.





May not take daily pictures, but I'm sure fascinated by their growth in only a couple of days.

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## Sprung

Tim, that's neat to watch that grow like that. I think my oldest boy would especially love watching something like that - This year he was very interested in tracking how the seeds we started progressed, both what we started indoors (and that I foolishly killed) and what we put in the ground.

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## trc65

@Sprung 

Matt if you would like some saguaro seeds, pm me your address and I'll send some up to you. Jerry sent me quite a lot of seed, and I'd be happy to pass some on.

In spite of the fact that most schools use beans or peas to show students seed germination and structure, there is something magical watching these tiny seeds developing. 

These were incredibly easy. I got some cactus potting mix, wetted it, sprinkled some seed on top, spritzed them with water and covered with clear plastic. Somewhere around 70° under florescent lights. Two to three days to germ. 

In the wild, I've read it can take ten years to reach one inch in height, and 70 years to first flower, so I'll never see mine flower, but I'd guess under cultivation growth rate would be higher. Might not keep your son's attention after the first few weeks, but might be something that he could keep for a lifetime, with a little help from Mom and Dad for a few years. .

BTW, a 20x or 30x hand lens allows you to see details that just aren't visible to the naked eye. That last picture is a good approximation of what you can see with a hand lens. I took the picture at 3456x2592 resolution (9 mega pixels), then zoomed in and cropped it.

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## Sprung

Tim - thank you for the offer! I'll send you a PM with my address. My son will especially enjoy it. (Ok, we will too!) We even have some of the right potting mix on hand - my wife uses it in the couple pots of succulents she has in the house.

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## Mike Hill

Man, It would be fun to have a saguaro growing, but, did the research - too wet, too cloudy and too cold here (as I suspected) and would be relegated to a houseplant in the winter especially! And houseplants have been banned by the female type of the house.

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## Nubsnstubs

trc65 said:


> @Sprung
> 
> Matt if you would like some saguaro seeds, pm me your address and I'll send some up to you. Jerry sent me quite a lot of seed, and I'd be happy to pass some on.
> 
> In spite of the fact that most schools use beans or peas to show students seed germination and structure, there is something magical watching these tiny seeds developing.
> 
> These were incredibly easy. I got some cactus potting mix, wetted it, sprinkled some seed on top, spritzed them with water and covered with clear plastic. Somewhere around 70° under florescent lights. Two to three days to germ.
> 
> In the wild, I've read it can take ten years to reach one inch in height, and 70 years to first flower, so I'll never see mine flower, but I'd guess under cultivation growth rate would be higher. Might not keep your son's attention after the first few weeks, but might be something that he could keep for a lifetime, with a little help from Mom and Dad for a few years. .
> 
> BTW, a 20x or 30x hand lens allows you to see details that just aren't visible to the naked eye. That last picture is a good approximation of what you can see with a hand lens. I took the picture at 3456x2592 resolution (9 mega pixels), then zoomed in and cropped it.


Tim, if you send any out, make sure there is some type of packing so the seeds don't get crushed at the post office when it goes through the sorting machines..... That's what happened to the Q O N seeds I got from a friend that I was going to send to you....... Jerry (in Tucson)

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## Nubsnstubs

trc65 said:


> More pictures of the saguaro seedlings. No emergence yet on the fishhook cacti.
> 
> Two days after germination (emergence) and some drastic changes.
> 
> First though a picture showing more detail of the tiny seedlings emerging. Center frame shows how a seedling emerges right out of the seed coat which is still hanging on top.
> 
> View attachment 212383
> 
> When I first looked at the pot tonight (I was out of town last night), I expected to see a whole bunch of green. While there was a little bit of green, here is what jumped out at me. In only two days they have changed from skinny green seedlings to fat pinkish little plants that are ~ 1/8" tall and wide.
> 
> View attachment 212384
> 
> Here is a closeup of one seedling and you can see some of the texture as well as the micro nub of the growing point right at the center.
> 
> View attachment 212385
> 
> May not take daily pictures, but I'm sure fascinated by their growth in only a couple of days.


Tim, if I'm right, in a couple more days, there should be a thorn appearing. Maybe a week at the most. Can't really remember, but they'll show. Those roots are about the color of my hair and arranged a little better. 
I think these seeds are a couple years old.. I'm told they can lay around for many years and still be good with the right temperature and water. .......... Thanks for posting these pictures. I never bothered taking any when I planted mine back in '08...........Jerry (in Tucson)

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Mike Hill said:


> Man, It would be fun to have a saguaro growing, but, did the research - too wet, too cloudy and too cold here (as I suspected) and would be relegated to a houseplant in the winter especially! And houseplants have been banned by the female type of the house.


They get a bit prickly as houseplants anyway. I have handled an 8 foot cactus or two as houseplants. They do NOT reside at my house by the way!

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## Mike Hill

Since Lil Mikey was a member of the chimerical TARS- Texas Aggies Redneck Society - he was accustomed to pulling out cactus thorns from parts of his body - some parts were hard to get to and he had to ask for help

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## trc65

Today the first fishhook pincushion cactus germinated. A bit different from the saguaro, these emerged as tiny green spheres. About 1mm in diameter, can't really see much detail. Five to six days for germ on these with a higher temp of 82°.





Here is a picture of the seed from the two different cacti. The saguaro is the larger seed on the left.

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## Wildthings

All I did was leave for a few days and the beetles went to town YIKES

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## Barb

Wildthings said:


> All I did was leave for a few days and the beetles went to town YIKES
> 
> View attachment 212523


Oh man, that sucks!

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## Sprung

Yup, that's no good!

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## Sprung

Not in our garden, but today we went to a local orchard and picked cherries. 10 quarts of Montmorency Tart and 1 quart of Golden Sweet. I really like the golden sweet - not as sweet as the typical black sweet cherry, but good cherry flavor.





The Montmorency tarts - most of them got put into containers and put in the freezer. When I have time, they'll come out and get canned - pie filling and jam. But what was left, that I didn't need for canning, get made into Cherry Bounce. This year I'm doing rum, brandy, and bourbon.





By the end of the month the Balaton variety should be ready. I've not had Balatons yet, but I'm told they're kinda a halfway point between tart and sweet cherries. We'll pick some of those when they're ripe and do some pie filling and jam with those as well, along with some more bounce. We didn't make near enough bounce last year - it goes quick when you start sharing it!

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## trc65

Wildthings said:


> All I did was leave for a few days and the beetles went to town YIKES


Ouch man! That really sucks! Got any seed left to get some more started?


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## Mike Hill

Wildthings said:


> All I did was leave for a few days and the beetles went to town YIKES
> 
> View attachment 212523


Yikes! Man - I feel your pain! Kinda like what mine looks like after the vine borer gets through with it.

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## Wildthings

trc65 said:


> Ouch man! That really sucks! Got any seed left to get some more started?


Nope. Those were started from the little plants you buy at the big box stores

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## Wildthings

Wildthings said:


> Nope. Those were started from the little plants you buy at the big box stores


I won't have to worry about running out of liquid in the barrel now!

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## trc65

Doesn't take those little cacti long to develop some defense mechanisms. This is 8 days after emergence, about 3/16" wide.

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## Wildthings

Hope y'all can make this out. I took the picture while trying to hold up the lid to my cucumber hydroponic barrel. Needed someone else to take the picture but.... There were two cups in the lid with 2 cuke plants on the left and three on the right. About a foot of liquid left

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## Eric Rorabaugh

Not growing in the garden but next to the back porch.

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## Mr. Peet

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Not growing in the garden but next to the back porch.
> 
> View attachment 212774


How long to they flower? Ours will start flowering in 3 or 4 weeks and last about 2. Do you get fall colors on yours? With frost just 5 or 6 weeks away, never had fall color on ours.


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## Eric Rorabaugh

They don't last long and nothing after these fall off. We had some off shoots that my wife transplanted in another spot and those flowers are white.

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## Wildthings

What are they?


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## Eric Rorabaugh

Rose of Sharon

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## Mr. Peet

Wildthings said:


> What are they?


It is a soft wood with a large amount of shrinkage. I'd assume from that, it likely has a fair amount of movement as well. The soft yellowish white wood stains brown to black from injury and can go far into the wood. Don't see it used much other than occasional wood carving.

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## Mike Hill

Member of the mallow family. As is Okra! So they share at least one trait - Eat a rose of sharon flower bud and they are slimey (mucilaginous) like okra - and yes, I have. FYI also related to cotton and cocoa! Good family of plants!


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## trc65

Mike Hill said:


> Member of the mallow family. Good family of plants!


Unless you are constantly battling common mallow and/or Venice mallow in flower beds, fencerows and the garden....


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## trc65

Finally picked the first tomatoes (other than Sun Gold cherry tomatoes).
Going to be a good supper!

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## Mike Hill

trc65 said:


> Unless you are constantly battling common mallow and/or Venice mallow in flower beds, fencerows and the garden....


Cotton, okra, and one all white "dinner plate" hibiscus are the only mallow I have in the yard - I don't grow Rose of Sharon, because of that one battle - have enough battles in the garden as it is - plus momma don't like the color - so that sealed it.

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## trc65

Dug the last of the garlic. This is the hard neck variety "Carpathian". Large heads and cloves. There are only 8 to 10 cloves in each. These will hang in the shed for drying/curing until fall.









Also pulled the first of the onions. These were damaged by winds and hail, so not as large as normal. The largest here is about the size of a baseball.

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## Sprung

@trc65 - Tim, we just got back into town today after a trip to visit family. Got the seeds today. Thank you very much! And a thank you to @Nubsnstubs for his having shared them with Tim. I showed the seeds to my oldest after I opened the package and he's excited for them.

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## Sprung

First thing we did tonight after getting home was to check the garden. We picked a few strawberries and a couple peppers. Our boys went and picked raspberries and our oldest made a neat discovery - some of our raspberries are golden raspberries.

And then we picked beans. And filled a 5 gallon pail. Mind you, our green bean patch is a 4' x 7' area of a raised bed planter and we probably have the plants too close, but they're growing and producing well. A few wax from some leftover seeds from last year, but nearly all green. There will be more ready to pick in a few days. And lots of flowers still on the plants - we'll be picking beans for a while. Some will get eaten fresh, some frozen, some made into dilly beans, and some I'll pressure can. (After I give the canner a test run to figure it out!)





In a few days, when we pick more beans, we'll also start harvesting green onions. In the past we've replanted the bottoms to grow again after cutting them off, but this year we're just going to try cutting it and leaving the bottom in the ground and saving some work. We'll cut up the green onions and freeze them - they're really nice to have in the freezer for tossing in dishes.

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## trc65

Good looking beans! Ours got planted way late because of the wet weather, won't be ready for another month or so. Other than eating a few fresh, we can all of them. When I was a kid, we would can about 100 quarts a year. Now only about 30 qts per year. 

Didn't take any pictures, but froze the first bags of broccoli today, and red beets are just about ready to be picked and pickled. 

BTW, green beans like a fairly high density. I plant mine about 8 seeds per foot of row in 30 inch rows.

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## Sprung

I planted about that number of seeds/foot. But my rows are only about 15 inches apart!

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## Sprung

Took a few minutes at the garden this morning - the oldest and I picked a handful of beans that we missed yesterday. And picked a few more peppers. The peppers that we have ready here are a sweet banana.

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## Nubsnstubs

I just got this today. Some of the times are different than what I have witnessed, but Desert conditions vary in different areas. Fort instance, I planted the seeds in October 2008. Five years later, 2013,, they were almost 6" tall. Seventeen of them were planted on the downhill side of my property under a Mesquite tree. Several of them are now almost 24" tall. I think I found 3 carcasses since, but now there are over 20 of them growing under that tree. The dove nesting on the property when not nesting under the eve of my house will sit in trees to digest all the seeds they've just eaten, and pass a few ready to grow into a Saguaro. Some will eventually germinate and become a natural Saguaro rather than a home grown greenhouse variety. That's why I have a few more than I planted. Others that were planted under Palo Verde's are pretty wimpy in size, and pretty much is following this charts' growth rate. 




....... Jerry (in Tucson)

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## Mike Hill

Cannot find them for sale anywhere, so will ask here to see if anybody knows of any available in other parts of the country. I take a shortcut through the State AgCenter to go see my daughter. And a couple of weekends ago, while shortcutting, I noticed a sign for an Iris sale. The local Iris society was having their annual sale - I did not know there was an Iris Society, much less that they had an annual sale. Two brain waves collided and their amplitudes increased and I remembered I was on the lookout for a couple of irises I have not been able to find. Now, Irises and I don't really geehaw, but these two I do want to try. Both are very fragrant. One is Gingersnap - I can usually find someone who sells them, but are always out - It is colored ginger and smells strongly like root beer. The one I've been looking for, but did not even know the name before I stopped at the sale and asked a few iris people there. It is a tall deep purple that they say has the name Southland Grape - has a strong fragrance of grape Nehi! yes, I watched a bunch of M.A.S.H. Does anybody know of a source of either.


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## trc65

Dave's garden website has a huge number of resources and you can search for plants to buy (commercial listings) and also to trade with other members. Here is a page where one member has some Southland grape for trade https://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/182316/#b

Here is the page to Gingersnap. https://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/72111/#b

BTW their search function sucks, you are better off using Google to search the site.

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## Mike Hill

trc65 said:


> Dave's garden website has a huge number of resources and you can search for plants to buy (commercial listings) and also to trade with other members. Here is a page where one member has some Southland grape for trade https://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/182316/#b
> 
> Here is the page to Gingersnap. https://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/72111/#b
> 
> BTW their search function sucks, you are better off using Google to search the site.


Yeh, google led me to his website. Unfortunately all want to trade for other iris. Unfortunately I only have 2 iris - one ubiquitous light lavender tall bearded and one yellow "other type" possibly a Louisiana or a japanese roof iris - I've had it so long, I just don't remember. I offered to trade a fig or two, but no answer yet. It's a handy website - I found where to buy some specific varieties of handkerchief tree and Monumentale maple on it. Neither are easy to find, especially in smaller sizes. Led me to a lady in Oregon who grows some pretty special stuff and sells in smaller sizes.

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## trc65

Cauliflower and cabbage harvest today. Will keep bouthlf the cauliflower to eat fresh and roast in the oven, rest will be frozen. Going to be eating lots of Cole slaw and cabbage rolls in the next couple of weeks. For size reference, those cabbge heads are around 7#.

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## Nature Man

trc65 said:


> Cauliflower and cabbage harvest today. Will keep bouthlf the cauliflower to eat fresh and roast in the oven, rest will be frozen. Going to be eating lots of Cole slaw and cabbage rolls in the next couple of weeks. For size reference, those cabbge heads are around 7#.
> 
> View attachment 213580


Scruptuous!

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## trc65

Had time today to take a good look at my milkweed and look for monarch caterpillars. This my ornamental plot with butterfly weed(orange flowers)and the taller swamp milkweed.





First thing I saw was a milkweed tussock moth caterpillar. Flashy little thing...





Then I started counting monarch larvae. Saw these two first, running out of room to go any higher.





The I started seeing more and more.









Stopped counting when I found a dozen of them. Probably more I don't see.

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## Wildthings

It's crazy how they can hide from prying eyes!! Thanks for sharing this!!

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## Mike Hill

That tussock moth - it looks like some flies I've tied!

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## trc65

Funny thing about the tussock moth is the adult is just a dull grey moth. When I was looking at pictures to ID the caterpillar, thought it would be a very colorful butterfly/moth.

Should have known, almost everything that feeds on milkweed is very colorful to warn predators to their toxicity from the alkaloids in milkweed.

Edit, was doing some more reading on the tussock caterpillar, and you should never try to touch or pick one up. They have urticating hairs that can injet toxins as well as break off in your skin causing reactions ranging from mild to severe pain, rash, and severe swelling.

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## Mike Hill

The local tree rats have bestowed on me a gift - they have allowed me a meager harvest of figs (they'll likely take the rest though) - two varieties - the brown one was sold as Hardy Chicago, but seems more like Celeste and the white one is unknown - got it as cuttings from a guy in Delaware or maybe it was New Jersey. Thought it might be a Marseilles - but with the long neck - more along Italian Honey. My grandma is surely smiling down on me - she loved figs! The okra is Bubba Okra. Don't laugh and scoff - it only gets about 3' tall max. I wouldn't dare say anything like "even @Tony could harvest it!" Last year the rabbits ate it all - this year I put up a fence around it. Got it out late - so this is the first pod. Love me some okra!

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## trc65

Pickling beets today.

These are the smaller ones already skinned and ready to be cut up, largest in this picture is about the size of a golf ball.





Here are the bigger ones cooling off before I clean and cut them up.

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## Sprung

No pictures - some of it's already been eaten already - but after a few nights away from home we came back to:

A bunch of strawberries. We really love our everbearing strawberry plants - and the strawberries we get are a wonderful balance of a little tart and not so sweet. They are the best strawberries I've ever had.
A good amount of peppers - shishito, banana, sport, and jalapeno
A handful of green beans

In a few days it looks like we'll be picking the first tomatoes of the season. It also looks like we may be picking the first cucumbers within the week.

Before our few days away I cut all the green onions - they were ready to be harvested. Left all the bottoms in the ground and we'll eventually get another cutting. They're already starting to grow back nicely. We cut them up, froze them on sheet pans, and then put into two half gallon mason jars in the freezer. We really like having them in the freezer to toss into dishes. We'll add at least one more half gallon jar of them into the freezer after the next cutting.

Also forgot to mention that, in addition to the six pints of dilly beans I've canned and the large amount of fresh green beans we've eaten, I did my first ever pressure canning - 7 quarts and 10 pints of green beans.

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## Sprung

And, while not from our garden, the campground we were camping at the last few nights had raspberries just finishing their season and blackberries just coming into season. We had a 2 1/2 quart bowl along and filled it with mostly blackberries, but a few raspberries as well, during our time camping. Getting home earlier today, we crushed the berries and strained out the seeds. We have 5 cups of puree that I will use to make blackberry jam with.

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## ripjack13

Found a big ol gourd in my pumpkin area today while the wife n I were doing yard work.

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## Sprung

Green Beans have little left to finish growing on them - a few random beans here and there still to finish. But! But there are a good number of new blossoms forming on them - more beans to come!

The other night I canned some more dilly beans - we get a few handfuls from the garden, plus were given some more beans. Also pickled a jar of sweet banana peppers and a jar of sport peppers.

We've also picked a few cucumbers, and had some given to us, so tonight I canned 4 quarts of pickles. First time I've canned pickles - made some refrigerator pickles last year. Made these for my wife and one of our boys, as they're the ones in our house who like pickles. I love pickled things, like dilly beans and peppers, but I hate pickles... (Now, fresh cucumbers - those I like!)

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## Trob115

Mike Hill said:


> The local tree rats have bestowed on me a gift - they have allowed me a meager harvest of figs (they'll likely take the rest though) - two varieties - the brown one was sold as Hardy Chicago, but seems more like Celeste and the white one is unknown - got it as cuttings from a guy in Delaware or maybe it was New Jersey. Thought it might be a Marseilles - but with the long neck - more along Italian Honey. My grandma is surely smiling down on me - she loved figs! The okra is Bubba Okra. Don't laugh and scoff - it only gets about 3' tall max. I wouldn't dare say anything like "even @Tony could harvest it!" Last year the rabbits ate it all - this year I put up a fence around it. Got it out late - so this is the first pod. Love me some okra!
> 
> View attachment 213697


Looks like great fig preserves.


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## Mike Hill

Trob115 said:


> Looks like great fig preserves.


Would be some good preserves, but I am only left a handful or two after all the varmints have their fill. I have about 15 others in pots that I am looking for someone to plant - away from varmints so I can see what they do around here.


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## Trob115

Mike Hill said:


> Would be some good preserves, but I am only left a handful or two after all the varmints have their fill. I have about 15 others in pots that I am looking for someone to plant - away from varmints so I can see what they do around here.


Sounds like you need to bust out the shotgun and have a good squirrel shoot.

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## Mike Hill

Sounds like a good idea - I like me some fricasseed squirrel. However, I live in a more non-conservative part of the state (way inside the city limits and I get busted for too much smoke while smoking brisket) and "they" would get absolutely apocalyptic bat-crazy and start foaming at the mouth if I discharged a weapon. Used to use a bow, but they have since outlawed that by claiming it is "discharging a weapon". Tried trapping and relocating - but there was no end to the replacements! So I've had to learn to grin and bear!

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## Trob115

Mike Hill said:


> Sounds like a good idea - I like me some fricasseed squirrel. However, I live in a more non-conservative part of the state (way inside the city limits and I get busted for too much smoke while smoking brisket) and "they" would get absolutely apocalyptic bat-crazy and start foaming at the mouth if I discharged a weapon. Used to use a bow, but they have since outlawed that by claiming it is "discharging a weapon". Tried trapping and relocating - but there was no end to the replacements! So I've had to learn to grin and bear!


Ah that blows. Too bad you couldn't use a pellet Rifle. I have a gamo and that thing is bad news to coons and squirrels at my bird feeder.

I understand the trapping frustration.
One thing you might could try is to provide food for the squirrels during fig season. I know it seems counterproductive, but you might give it a try. Chunk some corn out and they might just leave your figs alone

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Mike Hill said:


> Sounds like a good idea - I like me some fricasseed squirrel. However, I live in a more non-conservative part of the state (way inside the city limits and I get busted for too much smoke while smoking brisket) and "they" would get absolutely apocalyptic bat-crazy and start foaming at the mouth if I discharged a weapon. Used to use a bow, but they have since outlawed that by claiming it is "discharging a weapon". Tried trapping and relocating - but there was no end to the replacements! So I've had to learn to grin and bear!


Relocating in wet areas works for eliminating the captured ones returning. Especially rivers...

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## Mike Hill

I don't put out food (corn) especially for them, but I have no problem with them getting other things. I have a 60-70 yo pear tree that still bears 100's aand 100's of pears - they have free reign. Have a mature black walnut that have big crops of walnut that they have free reign to. And up to 3 years ago also had a mulberry that was always loaded. And they eat all of them - and all during fig season. I think the figs are dessert for them. Last couple of years they would leave the white figs and purple figs pretty much alone and just eat the sweet small amber ones - but this year they are after them all. And they get them one day before they are ripe. The quandry - harvest a day or two early and they are not sweet - or wait until ripe and harvest nothing but a nub. 

That is not a mystery as to what is getting the figs. However, my okra is something else. Three years ago we cut down a huge pine tree and that left an area of my back yard with some sun. Decided to plant some tomatoes, peppers, and okra. Decided on this short variety call Bubba Okra. Starts bearing less than knee high and at most will get 2-3 foot tall. Last year planted it first time and a rabbit decided to nibble all the leaves off. This year thought I would outsmart that wascally wabbit and install a little fence around the okra. Well something is eating leaves off about half of the plants. It doesn't just cut a leaf off and leaves it on the ground, it eats the whole thing at one setting all the way to the stem. If it is a wabbit, I have no idea how he is getting in. No deer that I know of. Our cat dined on a small rabbit the other day. I gave her extra loving on for doing that!


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## trc65

Started sweet corn harvest /freezing today. Picked the first of three varieties today, about 8 dozen ears and will pick the next variety tomorrow. The last is a little later to spread out the season a little.

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## Sprung

Nice! Love sweet corn. We don't have the space to grow any, but have opportunity to get some. Last year we got 4 dozen ears and most of it got frozen. Still have some in the freezer from last year, so not planning to add more now. Got 2 dozen yesterday. 1 dozen I cut off the cob tonight and froze - I'll use that later on for making some soups to can. The other dozen we'll eat fresh. My favorite way to eat is to shuck it, then grill it. A little char from the grilling and put some butter, salt, and pepper on it - doesn't get any better than that! I would have liked to have gotten more than the 2 dozen, but my time to do something with it right now is pretty much non-existent and our freezer space is getting full of items to can when I have more time, like cherries and blueberries for pie filling and jam, and starting to get tomatoes, which I'm freezing to make stuff from later on. I really need to get some time to get some of that canning done! And time to also pull some meat from the freezer so I can can some meat, soups, and stews for quick and easy meals.

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## trc65

Tomato juice day. Stew them for a little while to break them down, run them through food mill, then pressure can them. Shooting for around 16-18 qts. Still have some from last year, so not doing as much this year. Tomorrow will be making sauce from the Romas, and Monday will can whole Romas.

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## JerseyHighlander

Mike Hill said:


> Sounds like a good idea - I like me some fricasseed squirrel. However, I live in a more non-conservative part of the state (way inside the city limits and I get busted for too much smoke while smoking brisket) and "they" would get absolutely apocalyptic bat-crazy and start foaming at the mouth if I discharged a weapon. Used to use a bow, but they have since outlawed that by claiming it is "discharging a weapon". Tried trapping and relocating - but there was no end to the replacements! So I've had to learn to grin and bear!


You don't want to get me started with a town/city/municipal corporation telling me what I can & can't do on my private property, pretending a bow is a "firearm"... But I digress. 












Wildlife Body Traps


“Springkeeper” corner loops prevent springs from sliding around trap frame. Patented four-way trigger can be set off by animals approaching from any direction. Snap on or off easily as needed for baited or blind sets. High carbon steel and improved welding reduce trap bending or breaking.




www.forestry-suppliers.com





Just hang them where a neighbors cat, or God forbid a skunk, can't stick it's head in there...


.

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## Herb G.

JerseyHighlander said:


> You don't want to get me started with a town/city/municipal corporation telling me what I can & can't do on my private property, pretending a bow is a "firearm"... But I digress.
> 
> View attachment 214763
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wildlife Body Traps
> 
> 
> “Springkeeper” corner loops prevent springs from sliding around trap frame. Patented four-way trigger can be set off by animals approaching from any direction. Snap on or off easily as needed for baited or blind sets. High carbon steel and improved welding reduce trap bending or breaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forestry-suppliers.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just hang them where a neighbors cat, or God forbid a skunk, can't stick it's head in there...
> 
> 
> .



A Conibear 330 is a much better trap. It will take your arm off if you ain't careful.


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## Mr. Peet

JerseyHighlander said:


> You don't want to get me started with a town/city/municipal corporation telling me what I can & can't do on my private property, pretending a bow is a "firearm"... But I digress.
> 
> View attachment 214763
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wildlife Body Traps
> 
> 
> “Springkeeper” corner loops prevent springs from sliding around trap frame. Patented four-way trigger can be set off by animals approaching from any direction. Snap on or off easily as needed for baited or blind sets. High carbon steel and improved welding reduce trap bending or breaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forestry-suppliers.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just hang them where a neighbors cat, or God forbid a skunk, can't stick it's head in there...
> 
> 
> .


Do you mount it over the door bell?

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## Sprung

Just got home from a week in Illinois, visiting my wife's family. @trc65 - Tim we were kinda down in your neck of the woods. My wife is from Savanna, IL and one of the days we were there, we went down to Clinton, IA to the Sawmill Museum.

While we were gone we had someone tending the garden for us. Have a couple bags of cut up tomatoes in the freezer, saving for making sauce.

Tonight we picked the garden. The green beans that had started to blossom again had some ready to pick - about a gallon of beans. Picked some peppers, cucumbers, and tomatoes. And we came home with a box of tomatoes we picked from my wife's grandfather's garden this morning.

Going to be busy doing more canning in the next few days!

Green onions will be ready for trimming again in a few days. I froze the last cutting; this cutting I'll dehydrate.

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## Trob115

Herb G. said:


> A Conibear 330 is a much better trap. It will take your arm off if you ain't careful.


They are Bad news on the beavers around here


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## Herb G.

Trob115 said:


> They are Bad news on the beavers around here


I used one to trap a groundhog here. It took his head clean off. I wasn't expecting that, but hey, whatever works.

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## JerseyHighlander

Mr. Peet said:


> Do you mount it over the door bell?


As long as you don't say it was me that told you to, have at it. Just make sure there is video recording involved, with sound.

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## JerseyHighlander

Herb G. said:


> A Conibear 330 is a much better trap. It will take your arm off if you ain't careful.


I'd say the 330 is a bit overkill for squirrels but whatever floats your boat. I had the 110 snap on my fingers once, as I was setting it so still had some grip on the spring. Didn't break them but got the old adrenaline going pretty good.


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## Herb G.

JerseyHighlander said:


> I'd say the 330 is a bit overkill for squirrels but whatever floats your boat. I had the 110 snap on my fingers once, as I was setting it so still had some grip on the spring. Didn't break them but got the old adrenaline going pretty good.


A squirrel is hardly a ground hog my friend.


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## JerseyHighlander

Herb G. said:


> A squirrel is hardly a ground hog my friend.


I could have sworn the stated issue was with squirrels but can't imagine a ground hog would do too well with the 110 snapped closed on it's neck. I'm sure the double spring 330 would be more definitive in that regard but just how dead do you need it to be?

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## trc65

Took a walk with my camera after supper to check out the pumpkins. This is a pic of the main patch with the conventional pumpkins. They are looking good, probably 50 pumpkins in this patch. For size reference, the little one bottom center is probably a 10# pumpkin, and the one right behind it is ~30#.





The I walked over to a patch where I have some specialty (dif. size/shapes/colors) pumpkins. First thing I saw was a large orange shape peeking out above the leaves.





Crawled into the patch and holey cow. It's the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown!





I'm guessing this one is 150#+. I wasn't trying to grow that large a pumpkin, planted seed mix that should have a mix of colors and shapes, but this is the only pumpkin I could find from the five plants. Guess you get a really big one when it's the only one. Going to be interesting trying to move this one without borrowing a tractor.

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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> Took a walk with my camera after supper to check out the pumpkins. This is a pic of the main patch with the conventional pumpkins. They are looking good, probably 50 pumpkins in this patch. For size reference, the little one bottom center is probably a 10# pumpkin, and the one right behind it is ~30#.
> 
> View attachment 215343
> 
> The I walked over to a patch where I have some specialty (dif. size/shapes/colors) pumpkins. First thing I saw was a large orange shape peeking out above the leaves.
> 
> View attachment 215344
> 
> Crawled into the patch and holey cow. It's the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown!
> 
> View attachment 215345
> 
> I'm guessing this one is 150#+. I wasn't trying to grow that large a pumpkin, planted seed mix that should have a mix of colors and shapes, but this is the only pumpkin I could find from the five plants. Guess you get a really big one when it's the only one. Going to be really interesting trying to move this one without borrowing a tractor.


Maybe all the other shapes, sizes and colors are inside that one.  Pretty cool but I still think you need to consider making Pumpkin Ale!

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## Sprung

Still picking beans, tomatoes, peppers, and cucumbers from the garden. Going out every other day to pick has been working well this past week.

Between stuff from our garden and stuff that has been given to us, I've been doing some more canning this week. So far this week I've canned 9 half pints of grape jelly, 3 quarts of grape juice, and 6 quarts of green beans. Still up this week will be chicken stock, spicy Asian plum sauce, tomato/pasta sauce, and, if I have the time, I plan to get into cherry bbq sauce and cherry and blueberry pie fillings. I also started some plum liqueur the other night - 4 quarts jars of it.

Other things planned for this week: the green onions and some herbs are ready for another cutting, which I plan to dehydrate, and making some freezer pickles.

Our garden space is currently a pair of 4' x 12' raised beds, with a 3' x 4' addition section on one end that makes it a U shape. The small section is dedicated to strawberries. My wife and I have decided that we'd like to add another 4' x 12' bed next year, so I'll probably get that built this fall and start getting it filled so it's not as much work in the spring.

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## trc65

You are sure making the most of your small space! Impressive list of produce you've "put away". 

We are done canning tomatoes, but I'm still drying Roma tomatoes as fast as I can. Six quarts of dried tomato quarters so far. We are kind of waiting right now for things to mature. Late planted green beans aren't quite ready yet, and Lima beans have another couple weeks too. Late kraut cabbage is a month away along with brussel sprouts. Potatoes are vine killed, but I'll store them in the ground until just before a hard freeze and the basement stairs in the garage cool down.

I'm jealous of your grape jelly. My favorite is jelly from wild grapes, but haven't had enough wild grapes since Japanese beetles arrived about 6 years ago.

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## Sprung

Tim, it has been amazing to see just how much we've been able to get out of our little space. But there is also plenty that we've been putting away that hasn't come from our space. Later this week I'll pull 8 gallon bags filled with tomatoes out of the freezer to start making sauce - about half of that is tomatoes that we didn't grow. Some of it was from my wife's grandpa's garden - they had an overabundance, so we brought some back with us from our trip to Illinois. Some of it was given to us by a member of the church I serve. The plums and grapes were given to us by another member. God is good and we're trying to make the best of the blessings he's given us through various means.

Last year was my first year canning. This year I decided to keep track of everything that I canned or put up. It'll be interesting to see what it totals out to at the end of the season! Certainly not the quantities you're getting from your garden and able to put up - and while you're jealous of my grape jelly, I'm jealous of the space you have to garden with, lol - but we are rather happy with what we've been able to do.

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## wyowoodwrker

Started canning today. Got 11 quarts of pickles 4 pints of beans, and 11 half pints of plum/blueberry jam. Will get the tomatoes peaches and pears tomorrow. The plums,peaches,and pears are from the farmers market we went to today.

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## Sprung

Today was sauce day. 40lbs of tomatoes got cooked down and canned into 5 quarts and 5 pints of basil-garlic tomato sauce. After that, I still have about 20lbs more tomatoes in the freezer. We'll get some more tomatoes from our garden, but I'll probably be looking to source some more from elsewhere as I'd really like to put more sauce up, as well as some juice.

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## Sprung

We've been stuck at home for a few days now - my oldest is supposed to quarantine as a close contact (his teacher tested positive for covid) and I'm waiting for the results of my own covid test after starting to display some mild symptoms - so I've been using this as an opportunity to get caught up on some things.

Pulled all the bean plants from the garden as they were just finishing up. Took the cucumber trellis down and laid that where the beans were - this helps give the leaks some more space while they finish growing as the two cucumber plants were really taking over things, even after cutting them back. Been harvesting and freezing tomatoes every other day and picking a few various peppers here and there. Planted some butter lettuce, hoping to at least get some before the eventual first frost. Am wondering how late is too late to toss some carrot seeds in the ground.

Before we got stuck at home we had picked up a bushel and a half of apples from a local orchard. Zestar variety, and early apple. Our favorite variety, which we only first tried last year. Reminds me a lot of a honeycrisp with a nice balance of sweet and tart. We've been dehydrating apple slices. I have about a 5 gallon bucket full of dried slices so far - aiming for at least 2, maybe 3, to last the year. Our boys really love them and they've eaten a lot already.

Couple days ago I pulled out cherries I had frozen back in July. Made and canned cherry bbq sauce - 12 half pint jars - and cherry pie filling - 7 pint jars.

Tomorrow I plan to make two batches of apple pie filling - should yield about 14 pint jars. I might also pull some blueberries out of the freezer and can some blueberry pie filling. Also planning to pull tomatoes out of the freezer so I can can juice - I'll do a couple jars of plain tomato juice, at the request of my father-in-law, then I'll do the rest as a V8/spicy tomato juice style.

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## trc65

Sorry to hear covid is interrupting your life, hope any symptoms/infections remain mild or even absent. On the other hand though, wish I had a couple extra days to catch up on garden tasks like you are getting.

I'm still drying tomatoes, and picking secondary heads of broccoli. Waiting on late (hot) peppers to ripen so I can make some sauce. Brussel sprouts are starting to produce and my late cabbge is close to being mature. Just planted spinach and diakon radishes. We'll get some spinach this fall, and it will also over winter to give us real early greens next spring. The daikon along with Chinese cabbage (that is already growing) will be used to make a big batch of kimchi. Pumpkins are looking good, but a few varieties still need a couple weeks to mature. 

I thought fall was here with cool nights this week and some early fields of corn being combined, but we are getting temps in the 90's this weekend through early next week.

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## Sprung

It's not all fun and garden play, lol. I'm trying to use the extra time to get caught up on some work stuff as well. Don't even know if it's covid or not yet - still waiting on test results - but my symptoms have been mild and today they have been even more mild. Today was the first day I haven't spent the whole day feeling fatigued.

We're going to get a heatwave too - up to 83 for Saturday, then back down into the 60's and 70's, lol. We have definitely been enjoying our cooler weather and having the windows open.

Kimchi - I wanted to try making some last year, but never got around to it. Maybe this year I'll try making a small batch.

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## Sprung

How's everyone's gardens doing? What're you all maybe still harvesting, if anything?

We're still bringing in tomatoes. This weekend I pulled what tomatoes I had in the freezer out and made juice - 4 quarts - tomato veggie juice - 7 quarts and 3 pints - and plain sauce - 4 quarts and 2 pints. Any other tomatoes we bring in will get frozen and I'll do another batch of sauce at the end of the season.

Some of our pepper plants are continuing to produce, while some others have new blooms - we'll see what we might be able to get from them. Maybe nothing or not much before it gets too cold, but we'll see. Still grabbing a few strawberries here and there - we love our everbearing strawberries. Leeks continue to grow and green onions are growing back. Cucumbers are done now. Put some butter lettuce and carrot seeds in the ground a couple weeks ago - certainly a bit late, but we'll see if we can get anything - our proximity to Lake Michigan usually means a little later first frost.


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## trc65

Finished shelling the last of the Lima beans today. Late broccoli is ready to cut, and still getting secondary heads off early brocc. Peppers are still producing as are tomatoes. Got bunches of celery to cut and dehydrate. Giving late kraut cabbage a little time to grow yet. Brussel sprouts still have a few weeks to go.

Chinese cabbage and daikon radishes are growing nicely and should be ready to make kimchi in about three weeks. Late spinach is up, but won't get a harvest off it for a couple weeks. Nice thing is the spinach will overwinter and will have early crop next year.

Potatoes are still in the ground, won't dig those until just before a freeze when basement stairs in garage are cold enough for storage. Have some acorn squash that will be picked after first frost.

Pumpkins and gourds are still growing, a couple weeks yet before start picking those and decorating for fall.

Almost forgot, picked my one pear last week. We had a hard frost during bloom and only one pear grew off two pear trees. Winesap apples should also be about ready to pick, should get a bushel or so from the one tree.

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## Sprung

Lots of great stuff, Tim. Wish we had the space to grow so much - and that wide of a variety!

But, we will be at least expanding next year. We're going to add on a third 4' x 12' raised bed. I do want to build a trellis/arbor to connect between the beds, and maybe that can be a place where we can grow some squash. We are also planning on adding to the raspberry patch. We may also plant a few smaller things among my wife's flowers next year as well.

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## trc65

It is nice to have the space, but you should see the weeds I have right now, even with mulch and herbicides. 

Before we (Mom an Dad) bought this place, the previous tenant didn't have a garden, but she liked morning glories, and planted them everywhere. Even with pre emergent herbicides, deep mulch and post emergence herbicides, by this time of year, they cover everything...... That's one reason I plant so much, know that certain amount will be lost to deer, bugs and weeds.

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## Mr. Peet

Water melon still alive, 4 little melon balls total, but all other vines have died, maybe drown. Peppers and tomatoes still going. Sad, all the butternut squash finished 6"-8" long, not a normal sized one in the bunch. Only one cheese squash. Someone stole our pumpkins, but being the garden is at the church, we like to think they really needed them. Radishes were done mid July but kale still going too. Picked 5 bushel from the 2 pear trees at our house. Our apples are sparse, spring frost, but down the road a mile was spared and trees are loaded.

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## Ray D

Just now starting my fall vegetable garden in Florida. Fall and spring are good times to plant here…. Summer is a bit rough though.

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## Mike Hill

Lil Mikey feels so substandard and inadequate. While some of youse have canned and frozen bunches - Lil Mikey has only produced this one small jar of fig preserves. Diligently picking slightly unripe figs and freezing them for a few weeks, he was able to wrest a few handfuls of precious figs from the clutches of squirrels, birds and ants! When cooking he was going to add a little vanilla for good measure - btw do you know how similar that almond flavoring bottles look like vanilla bottles? Slightly almond flavored figs are not all that bad!

Have one melon/cantaloupe (plant markers were pulled up and scattered by some varmint) that hopefully will ripen, some really hot white radishes (wasabi - I think) some carrots and some small turnips. I quess it is about time to stop trying to grow tomatoes in my one little spot of sun (3 years now) they were all sickly. Eggplants would start growing then the fruit would fall off. Poblanos did not set any - must still be too much shade for them. Only a handful of okra - I put up a reinforced plastic fence around 30 or 40 plants, but something chewed 3 holes through the fence and ate all the leaves. Next year metal fence and tall plants not shorties. Did get 6 pears from my tree (rest were squirrel bait)- will probably try to make some preserves of my horde! All the paw-paws were eaten even before they were 1/2 grown. For some reason the Pineberry and Alpine strawberries did not set any fruit this year. I am down to 7 jap. persimmon that are just starting to turn color. My fingers are crossed! Horseradish after frost.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Mike Hill said:


> Lil Mikey feels so substandard and inadequate. While some of youse have canned and frozen bunches - Lil Mikey has only produced this one small jar of fig preserves. Diligently picking slightly unripe figs and freezing them for a few weeks, he was able to wrest a few handfuls of precious figs from the clutches of squirrels, birds and ants! When cooking he was going to add a little vanilla for good measure - btw do you know how similar that almond flavoring bottles look like vanilla bottles? Slightly almond flavored figs are not all that bad!
> 
> Have one melon/cantaloupe (plant markers were pulled up and scattered by some varmint) that hopefully will ripen, some really hot white radishes (wasabi - I think) some carrots and some small turnips. I quess it is about time to stop trying to grow tomatoes in my one little spot of sun (3 years now) they were all sickly. Eggplants would start growing then the fruit would fall off. Poblanos did not set any - must still be too much shade for them. Only a handful of okra - I put up a reinforced plastic fence around 30 or 40 plants, but something chewed 3 holes through the fence and ate all the leaves. Next year metal fence and tall plants not shorties. Did get 6 pears from my tree (rest were squirrel bait)- will probably try to make some preserves of my horde! All the paw-paws were eaten even before they were 1/2 grown. For some reason the Pineberry and Alpine strawberries did not set any fruit this year. I am down to 7 jap. persimmon that are just starting to turn color. My fingers are crossed! Horseradish after frost.
> 
> View attachment 216345


I got my Dad a couple Japanese persimmon 10 years ago and as far as I know, this is the first year they set fruit. We shall see if the deer leave any for us to snack on. Last herd count by the neighbor was above 20... 
That almond fig preserve sounds appetizing. Better than, say ..., well actually most flavorings I can think of off hand would blend well with figs. Just stay away from the herb jars, I doubt we could pass it off with basil or cilantro.

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## trc65

I've been remiss in updating pictures of my cacti seedlings. It's now about a week or so shy of three months since they germinated.

First is the fishhook pincushion. The body is about the size of a pea, maybe a 1/4" or so in diameter. See how it got it's name?






This the saguaro. The body is about the size of a dime and the spines are around 1.25" across. Nasty looking spines, but at this size they are still flexible and I had no problems transplanting them earlier this week.

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## Nubsnstubs

trc65 said:


> I've been remiss in updating pictures of my cacti seedlings. It's now about a week or so shy of three months since they germinated.
> 
> First is the fishhook pincushion. The body is about the size of a pea, maybe a 1/4" or so in diameter. See how it got it's name?
> 
> View attachment 216881
> 
> 
> This the saguaro. The body is about the size of a dime and the spines are around 1.25" across. Nasty looking spines, but at this size they are still flexible and I had no problems transplanting them earlier this week.
> 
> View attachment 216882


Wow, that Fishhook has some cool stuff on the spines. I have so many on the property I've never tried growing my own, so that picture shows a lot of detail I've never seen. The saguaro looks like the spines have the same detail on some of the spines, or is it your camera doing strange stuff to them?? ........... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## trc65

Jerry, not a camera artifact, although you made me go and look with a hand lens to be sure.  

With the hand lens you can see tiny "hairs" (trichomes?) extending perpendicular to each spine along their length. On the older spines, you see fewer of them. Leads me to believe that they are a defense mechanism with young, soft, immature spines and they are either absorbed(surrounded by expanding tissue) or fall off as the spines age and become thicker/stronger.

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## Nubsnstubs

Tim, it probably is a defense mechanisam as there are plenty of hungry critters out here that love to eat young cacti. I guess I'm gonna have to grow some more in the spring and check it out myself. Haven't seen any literature about the hairy spines yet, so will have to look deeper for it.......... Thanks............... Jerry (in Tucson)

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## Mike Hill

Lil Mikey is giddy!!!! 




After 4 years, or is it 5 - finally able to pick my first Jap. Persimmon. Have no idea of it's ripeness - but it sure looks like it is. Last year the tree bore 3 but the animules got'em. This year I think it set about 12, but something happened to 5 and I have 7 left including this one. I don't particularly like them, but my wife does. Did not think they were hardy enough for here, so this is an experiment. They've survived getting down to the low teens.

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## trc65

Looks good to me! Although I admit, I've never seen a persimmon, Japanese or otherwise...

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## 2feathers Creative Making

It's ripe. Later it may be riper...


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## trc65

It's October!

Started hauling pumpkins from the garden to the house this afternoon. Here's a pic that shows most of this years varieties. Haven't hauled "The Great Pumpkin" out of the garden yet.

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## Mike Hill

Way cool. Really like the one on the far right. Looks like a frenchie variety a friend of mine grew a few years ago. Made awesome pies!


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## trc65

That variety is sold as "Fairytale" but it is the French heirloom variety musque de provence. I've grown these for several years, and this year I'm determined to cut a few up to eat. The description underestimates the size of these. My vines are closer to 15 meters and these are usually 15-20 lbs or more.

Here is a description:

Fairytale pumpkins, botanically classified as Cucurbita moschata, are a French winter heirloom variety and are members of the Cucurbitaceae family along with squash and gourds. Also known as the Musque De Provence squash, Fairytale pumpkins are prized for their excellent flavor, ornamental shape, and unique tan coloring. Fairytale pumpkins grow on vigorous vines that can reach over three meters in length and are named for their musky scent. They also belong to the “cheese pumpkin” group because of their resemblance to a wheel of cheese. Fairytale pumpkins are one of the only hard squash varieties that can be consumed raw and are known for their long storage capabilities, delicate flesh, and sweet flavor.

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## Mr. Peet

Mike Hill said:


> Lil Mikey is giddy!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After 4 years, or is it 5 - finally able to pick my first Jap. Persimmon. Have no idea of it's ripeness - but it sure looks like it is. Last year the tree bore 3 but the animules got'em. This year I think it set about 12, but something happened to 5 and I have 7 left including this one. I don't particularly like them, but my wife does. Did not think they were hardy enough for here, so this is an experiment. They've survived getting down to the low teens.
> 
> View attachment 216914


Which species...? There are a few Asian choices. Some are astringent, so would need a frost to trigger the sugars to develop. You can still mimic the process with a refrigerator and freezer.


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## Mike Hill

I thought there was generally only one species diospyros kaki and a bunch of cultivars.with two types kinda. One type that needs to be really ripe and maybe a frost before it won't pucker you up. The other type is more forgiving. I don't remember the cultivar name but I selected for hardiness, early ripening and not needing to have a frost or being dead ripe.


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## Mr. Peet

Mike Hill said:


> I thought there was generally only one species diospyros kaki and a bunch of cultivars.with two types kinda. One type that needs to be really ripe and maybe a frost before it won't pucker you up. The other type is more forgiving. I don't remember the cultivar name but I selected for hardiness, early ripening and not needing to have a frost or being dead ripe.


That is likely so, just thought there were two species, but that was a long time ago. Good thing you chose well. Ah, very good for you, otherwise your face would collapse in on its self sucking the moisture from your mouth and breath from your lungs. Try it on vanilla bean ice cream.


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## Mike Hill

Never thought about ice cream! Lil Mikey says everything goes better with ice cream!


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## sprucegum

Not much growing, the s season is about over. A few tomatoes left to ripen, carrots, beets, and parsnips still in the ground. Thought I would show off Grams Johnson's beans. My wife's grandma was born in a sod house near Dix Nebraska. As a young bride in 1922 she moved to a farm in Peacham Vermont. She brought her family's bean seeds to Vermont with her and grew them every year for the rest of her life. My wife's cousin gave us some seed years ago and we grow a few every year. My wife cans them for shell beans and we dry some for seed as well as baking.

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## Sprung

Very cool to have family seed like that, Dave.

We don't have any family seed from my own family, but we did have someone else's family seed given to us - a friend gave us a tomato seedling this spring that is traced back to seed she was given by some friends of hers when they lived in Texas. The family that gave her the seed, it's their family tomato plant/seed going back some time. Their family brought it with them when they emigrated from Bohemia. We saved some seed and it'll be something we plant each year.

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## sprucegum

Had a bumper crop of cilantro this year, I let it bolt and produce seeds (coriander). We dried it in the attic then stripped off the seeds. I had a extra crushgrind pepper mill, corriander seed is roughly the same size as peppercorn. Works great  I also infused some vodka with corriander seed, I think it will make some interesting bloody Marys.

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## Mike Hill

Well down to 5 - found this under the tree yesterday evening. AAAARGGGGG!!!! If they would even eat it all, I wouldn't be as mad. But to leave over half for me to discover! That's just mean!!!! Lil Mikey is being bullied by rodents!!! He might have to go write sumthing to vent!!

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## sprucegum

Sprung said:


> Very cool to have family seed like that, Dave.
> 
> We don't have any family seed from my own family, but we did have someone else's family seed given to us - a friend gave us a tomato seedling this spring that is traced back to seed she was given by some friends of hers when they lived in Texas. The family that gave her the seed, it's their family tomato plant/seed going back some time. Their family brought it with them when they emigrated from Bohemia. We saved some seed and it'll be something we plant each year.


Seed saving in many cases is such a simple thing to do, but many people myself included don't do enough of it. I am getting into it a little more lately. I planted alderman peas this year and had a time finding seeds. No one local had them and not many places online, I ended up paying over $20 from a organic seed company for a half pound. They did well and I saved around a pound of seed for next year.

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## Sprung

We're starting to save seeds here - it really is simple. Didn't save from everything we planted this year, but did save some. Next year our goal is to save seed from most everything.


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## sprucegum

Sprung said:


> We're starting to save seeds here - it really is simple. Didn't save from everything we planted this year, but did save some. Next year our goal is to save seed from most everything.


I really like my hybrid sweet corn so that's out. We save beans, squash, peas, dill, and coriander. I plant hybrid blight restant tomatoes because we have lost entire crops in the past.

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## Sprung

Today I cut back the chives again, save for a small part so we have a little bit in case we want some fresh chives in the next week or so, and the basil. Got both in the dehydrator right now.

Not much coming out of the garden right now - a few tomatoes here and there still and some peppers. If this unseasonably warm weather can hold out for another 7 to 10 days, we should get enough peppers that I could can another couple jars of pickled peppers. After the chives and basil are done in the dehydrator, I'll pull the green onions and dehydrate them - they've already been cut back twice, now I'll just pull them. After those are done, the leeks will come out and I'll dehydrate those as well.

Had a couple pounds of one of the big heads of cabbage we got still left. So today I decided to try and make a small batch of kimchi. Yeah, it's not the traditional napa cabbage, but I figured I'd give it a try with what we had on hand. I've never had kimchi and I've been wanting to try it.

I enjoy the garden and it's not a lot of work to keep our garden going or to harvest it. The biggest time commitment is in preserving it all. I've enjoyed the garden and canning - and still have probably a few dozen more jars of stuff to can as I put some stuff in the freezer to can when I had more time - but I'm looking forward to garden and canning season being done and spending my free time on something else.

And then I'll look forward to getting back to it next year. My wife and I have already been talking about what we want to plant next year - what we want to plant more of, or less of, or what else we want to try to plant. As soon as our van is back from the shop, I'll be off with it to pick up some cedar to build a third raised bed planter. We plan to build a trellis into it as well.

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## sprucegum

Sprung said:


> off with it to pick up some cedar to build a third raised bed planter. We plan to build a trellis into it as well.


I love my raised beds, they are quite a bit of work and expense up front but pay off big over time. Ours are around 30" high and make weeding and thinning super easy for us senior citizens with bad backs. We have a little over 150 sq feet of raised beds, that seems to be enough for now. The only down side is they tend to dry out fast and need frequent watering. I'm planning to add some drip irrigation with a timer next year.

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## Sprung

Agreed on the raised beds! Ours are about 22" high. We're currently at about 100 sq ft and will be at about the same 150sq ft you are when we add in the third bed.


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## trc65

What's growing in the garden? Not much right now. Had heavy frost last night, so wiped out any warm season plants. Harvested Chinese cabbage and daikon radishes to make a big batch of kimchi. All that's left to do is harvest brussel sprouts and some collard greens later in the week.

Here's a picture of the kimchi right before putting it into the crock. Two gallon batch, and should be ready for sampling in a couple weeks.

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## Sprung

Looks good, Tim. I made my first ever batch of kimchi a few weeks ago. I like it - I'd never had it before. It was a bit too spicy for my wife, but it'll go great tossed into stir fry or fried rice.

I was hoping to do fall cleanup in the raised beds this week and plant garlic, but that'll have to wait. I don't have the energy or strength to fight my way out of a wet paper bag. Covid has hit our house...

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## Sprung

That also means that adding on a third raised bed is looking like a springtime project...


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## trc65

I like really hot kimchi, but have cut back on the peppers in recent years so other family members can enjoy it. My favorite way to eat it (other than straight from the jar) is to use it on sandwiches. Two pieces of toast, some lunch meat and a thick layer of kimchi.

We've been way too wet to do any tilling for garlic. Hoping to get it in next week. I've still got potatoes to dig too. Waiting for the basement stairs in the garage to cool down a little more so they will store longer.

Hope you all beat the covid quickly, we've been lucky and not had illness of any kind for quite a while.

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## Wildthings

Sprung said:


> . Covid has hit our house...


praying for quick and complete recoveries for your family

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## T. Ben

Sprung said:


> Covid has hit our house...


Sorry to hear that Matt.Hope you guys get over it quickly.

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## Sprung

Thanks, guys. I'm feeling a little better this morning. My fever appears to have broken during the night, but we'll see how the day goes. We've been on a regimen of vitamins to boost the immune system, and getting sick the amount of some of them got increased dosages. It's not pleasant, but I've been way sicker than this before.

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## Eric Rorabaugh

Just got over it myself. Take care

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## Mike Hill

Ok, this is supposed to be wintertime yet! A few a little earlier than norm, but some downright cornfused! This was Jan 1 - day before the white stuff. Sorry for the blurry pic - but old iphone, lots of wind and old Lil Mikey are the excuses.







Earlier than normal - common and red witchhazel












Hellebores - not totally unexpected, but earlier than normal






Jessamine - early





Dianthus - early!





Azalea - way early - Is it time for the Masters already?

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## Mr. Peet

Mike Hill said:


> Ok, this is supposed to be wintertime yet! A few a little earlier than norm, but some downright cornfused! This was Jan 1 - day before the white stuff. Sorry for the blurry pic - but old iphone, lots of wind and old Lil Mikey are the excuses.
> 
> View attachment 220328View attachment 220329
> 
> Earlier than normal - common and red witchhazel
> 
> 
> View attachment 220331View attachment 220330
> 
> View attachment 220332
> 
> Hellebores - not totally unexpected, but earlier than normal
> 
> 
> View attachment 220333
> 
> Jessamine - early
> 
> View attachment 220334
> 
> Dianthus - early!
> 
> View attachment 220335
> 
> Azalea - way early - Is it time for the Masters already?


Common 'Witch Hazel' flowers can be found nearly every month of the leaf-off season. Ours is every year about the last week of November and first 2 weeks of December. 

As for the others, they are simply confused. In the country it is often called DNC.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mike Hill

Anybody want to wager a bet that when I get home today, that there will be the first open daffodil in my yard to greet me?

Reactions: Like 5


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## trc65

Got bloom yet?


We are a ways off from anything growing outside, but I've got around 30 different species/varieties started in the basement. Geraniums and petunias are the only thing emerged so far. Any green you see in the back left of the picture are pots of my saguaro (and some tiny geraniums).

Reactions: Way Cool 5


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## djg

Thanks Tim for starting this thread. A lot of good ideas from you and others. I need to get my setup finished and get some seeds going now. I started reading this thread then got distracted. Now I'm playing catch-up. I'm up to page 7. as usual, I got a bunch of questions.

In posts #68 you have 5 gal buckets around your plants. Rabbit protection? Bottoms cut out? I've tried 12" chicken wire but it's a pain to use and store. This is a good idea. Subdivision going in near me and lots of 5 gal paint buckets being tossed.

#81 You use black plastic corrugated drain pipe around plants. More protection or for watering?

#116 Strawberry syrup sounds good. Just cook down berries, strain and add some sugar to thicken?


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## trc65

The buckets are around tomato plants and protect them while they harden off after transplanting. Keeps them a little warmer and keeps the winds from shredding them. Would work for rabbits too, but we have a high coyote population and few rabbits.

The buckets are cut off. I use the bottoms for storage trays. The black drain pipe is used for the same reason, to harden off pepper and cole crop transplants. I remove the buckets and the drain pipe when the plants have hardened off.

Edit.

Here is the strawberry syrup recipe.

6 cup mashed strawberries (8-10cups fresh berries)
3 cups sugar 
2 TBS lemon juice 
1 TBS vanilla extract 

Add all ingredients to a pot, bring to a boil, reduce heat and boil gently for 15 minutes. Syrup can be stored in the fridge for several months. I process in a boiling water bath for 10 minutes, or you can freeze the syrup. 

BTW, it sounds like a lot of lemon juice, but it is needed to balance the acidity/sweetness. You don't taste any lemon in the final product. Also seems like a lot of vanilla, but it only has a very subtle vanilla note in the final product.

Reactions: Like 2 | Thank You! 1 | Informative 1


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## Nubsnstubs

trc65 said:


> Here is the strawberry syrup recipe.
> 
> 6 cup mashed strawberries (8-10cups fresh berries)
> 3 cups sugar
> 2 TBS lemon juice
> 1 TBS vanilla extract
> 
> Add all ingredients to a pot, bring to a boil, reduce heat and boil gently for 15 minutes. Syrup can be stored in the fridge for several months. I process in a boiling water bath for 10 minutes, or you can freeze the syrup.
> 
> BTW, it sounds like a lot of lemon juice, but it is needed to balance the acidity/sweetness. You don't taste any lemon in the final product. Also seems like a lot of vanilla, but it only has a very subtle vanilla note in the final product.


When I visited Tim last year, he gave me a jar of that syrup. Wow folks, it's the best canned Strawberry anything I've ever eaten. I'd love to get another couple jars if you're so inclined to sell me a couple. Flat rate box of anything desert you think you would like could be made up if you're into trading.

I don't know if any of you have eaten Fritos Scoops this way, but, MAN, it's delicious with this syrup. ......... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## djg

trc65 said:


> The buckets are around tomato plants and protect them while they harden off after transplanting. Keeps them a little warmer and keeps the winds from shredding them. Would work for rabbits too, but we have a high coyote population and few rabbits.
> 
> The buckets are cut off. I use the bottoms for storage trays. The black drain pipe is used for the same reason, to harden off pepper and cole crop transplants. I remove the buckets and the drain pipe when the plants have hardened off.
> 
> Edit.
> 
> Here is the strawberry syrup recipe.
> 
> 6 cup mashed strawberries (8-10cups fresh berries)
> 3 cups sugar
> 2 TBS lemon juice
> 1 TBS vanilla extract
> 
> Add all ingredients to a pot, bring to a boil, reduce heat and boil gently for 15 minutes. Syrup can be stored in the fridge for several months. I process in a boiling water bath for 10 minutes, or you can freeze the syrup.
> 
> BTW, it sounds like a lot of lemon juice, but it is needed to balance the acidity/sweetness. You don't taste any lemon in the final product. Also seems like a lot of vanilla, but it only has a very subtle vanilla note in the final product.


I might try the buckets this year to protect from rabbits until the plants get larger. Easier than the chicken wire. Just nest and store in the garage when the wire baskets go on.

That sounds more like jam than syrup. Next time you get Cherries, do the same except strain. Make nice syrup.


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## trc65

Nubsnstubs said:


> When I visited Tim last year, he gave me a jar of that syrup. Wow folks, it's the best canned Strawberry anything I've ever eaten. I'd love to get another couple jars if you're so inclined to sell me a couple. Flat rate box of anything desert you think you would like could be made up if you're into trading.
> 
> I don't know if any of you have eaten Fritos Scoops this way, but, MAN, it's delicious with this syrup. ......... Jerry (in Tucson)



I've got plenty, I'll put a box together early next week. Leaving town tomorrow to go see newest great nephew (1 month old). I'm not looking for anything specific in trade, just surprise me with something.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## trc65

djg said:


> I might try the buckets this year to protect from rabbits until the plants get larger. Easier than the chicken wire. Just nest and store in the garage when the wire baskets go on.
> 
> That sounds more like jam than syrup. Next time you get Cherries, do the same except strain. Make nice syrup.


It sounds like jam, but is really syrup with chunks. 

Most jams have ~ 2 parts or more sugar to 1 part fruit. This one is opposite that ratio. If you like strawberries, this the recipe to try.

Didn't make any cherry syrup from cherries last year, made cherry pit syrup (just pits and sugar). Think it was @Sprung who shared that recipe. Our sour cherry tree should be in full production this year, so hopeful!

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## djg

Made it through a couple more pages and saw the cherry syrup on page 8. The syrup I attempted to make was for pancakes not liquor. I drink my scotch neat or with a splash of water. Sorry to single you out again Tim, but I was wondering if you plant your potatoes in the same spot every year? We grew tons as kids but I've only had one good year since.

Your garlic is planted when? and dug in July? I'd like to try that.


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## trc65

I use the cherry syrup on ice cream and it is heaven!

Potatoes. Rotate every year, if you have space. They would be best after a crop or two of sweet corn. Most other crops grown in the garden are alternate hosts for various potato pests. If you don't have space to rotate, don't sweat it, it's not like you are trying to grow them commercially. What varieties of potato are you growing? Not every variety will do well in all soil types/ environment. 

Several that I grow:. *Superior*, a round white early season variety (90 day). Good for boiling, potato salad, etc. Won't store very long. Only needs about 100#/acre nitrogen. Good on most soil types, but like all potatoes, the looser the soil the better.

*Norland*, very similar to Superior, but red skinned. Similar characteristics. Supior and Norland are the potatoes I start digging as soon as they are golf ball sized for "new potatoes".

*Yukon Gold*, very popular since they have yellow flesh, but they can have more problems in the garden. They are very susceptible to scab, and they go off shape in heavier soils. Need around 150# nitrogen/acre. Don't store very long. Longer season potato compared to Superior.

*Pontiac*, red skinned potato, longer season than Norland and larger yielding. Short storage season. 150# nitrogen.

*Kennebec*, full season (120 day)oblong white skinned. Good storage potato. Grow these to use all winter long. 175# nitrogen.

Always buy certified seed potatoes. Trying to save them from year to year only increases virus load in the potatoes. Don't ever use potatoes bought at the grocery store for planting. They all have sprout inhibitor sprayed on them, and even though they may grow, they will not produce a normal crop.

Tip:150 # nitrogen per acre equals 25 oz of 13-13-13 fertilizer per 20 ft of row.

I use a systemic insecticide at planting, followed by foliar sprays later in the season for leafhoppers. Colorado potato beetle and leafhoppers are going to do the most damage to potatoes.

For disease, I use Daconil (chlorothalonil) and start spraying when the potatoes start filling in between rows.

Most important with potatoes is getting enough nitrogen on them. I till in nitrogen before planting. You don't necessarily need to apply fungicide, but it can help in raising final yield. Consistent moisture (rain or watering) is also important.

Garlic. I plant anywhere from late October to mid November, just want them in the ground before it freezes. You can plant in the spring but will have much smaller yield. Hard neck varieties are the best in our area. Several of my favorite varieties are "Armenian", "Romanian", "Chesnok Red" and "Spanish Roja".

BTW, if you have a hard time finding potato seed, try Jung Seed in Wisconsin. They carry many varieties, and might even have some garlic cloves for sale in the spring. I bought my garlic from a producer out west several years ago, and plant the largest cloves I produce each year. Garlic can be planted from year to year with saved cloves.

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## Wildthings

trc65 said:


> Here is the strawberry syrup recipe.
> 
> 6 cup mashed strawberries (8-10cups fresh berries)
> 3 cups sugar
> 2 TBS lemon juice
> 1 TBS vanilla extract *(HOME MADE)*
> 
> Add all ingredients to a pot, bring to a boil, reduce heat and boil gently for 15 minutes. Syrup can be stored in the fridge for several months. I process in a boiling water bath for 10 minutes, or you can freeze the syrup.
> 
> BTW, it sounds like a lot of lemon juice, but it is needed to balance the acidity/sweetness. You don't taste any lemon in the final product. Also seems like a lot of vanilla, but it only has a very subtle vanilla note in the final product.


Here you go...I fixed it for you!!

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## trc65

I just assumed that all WB members knew that the only vanilla worth using was Home Made. Thanks Greg! @woodtickgreg

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## Sprung

trc65 said:


> Didn't make any cherry syrup from cherries last year, made cherry pit syrup (just pits and sugar). Think it was @Sprung who shared that recipe. Our sour cherry tree should be in full production this year, so hopeful!



Yup, that was me. Great way to use something that is going to end up getting tossed out.



djg said:


> Made it through a couple more pages and saw the cherry syrup on page 8. The syrup I attempted to make was for pancakes not liquor. I drink my scotch neat or with a splash of water.



While we primarily use the cherry pit syrup in mixing drinks, we've used it on pancakes and the like as well - and it is delicious.

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## Sprung

We bought most of our seed already. Still have a few things left to order. We're adding a couple more raised beds this year, plus have someone who is letting us grow out at their garden. So we're expanding quite a bit this year on what we're growing. Got a bunch of new things we're trying this year since we'll have more space.

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## trc65

I've got to get veggies ordered yet, flowers I ordered right after Christmas. Thankfully, orders so far this year are being shipped in a timely manner and everything I've ordered so far seems to be in plentiful supply.

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## Mike Hill

trc65 said:


> Got bloom yet?








With all this technology that we pat ourselves on the back as to having - still can't even get the layout format correct across platforms every time. Everything the same except for time and date as the one above - but could not get correct this time. And yes, I've rotated it every which way in Photo - same sad result. Apple, Microsoft, Dell all involved - pathetic. And they want to go to autonomous driving cars! I'll use a walker instead - thank you!

But YES - I got bloom!

EDIT - Did the rotate in another program - worked that time. Go figure!!!

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## djg

trc65 said:


> I use the cherry syrup on ice cream and it is heaven!
> 
> Potatoes. Rotate every year, if you have space. They would be best after a crop or two of sweet corn. Most other crops grown in the garden are alternate hosts for various potato pests. If you don't have space to rotate, don't sweat it, it's not like you are trying to grow them commercially. What varieties of potato are you growing? Not every variety will do well in all soil types/ environment.
> 
> Several that I grow:. *Superior*, a round white early season variety (90 day). Good for boiling, potato salad, etc. Won't store very long. Only needs about 100#/acre nitrogen. Good on most soil types, but like all potatoes, the looser the soil the better.
> 
> *Norland*, very similar to Superior, but red skinned. Similar characteristics. Supior and Norland are the potatoes I start digging as soon as they are golf ball sized for "new potatoes".
> 
> *Yukon Gold*, very popular since they have yellow flesh, but they can have more problems in the garden. They are very susceptible to scab, and they go off shape in heavier soils. Need around 150# nitrogen/acre. Don't store very long. Longer season potato compared to Superior.
> 
> *Pontiac*, red skinned potato, longer season than Norland and larger yielding. Short storage season. 150# nitrogen.
> 
> *Kennebec*, full season (120 day)oblong white skinned. Good storage potato. Grow these to use all winter long. 175# nitrogen.
> 
> Always buy certified seed potatoes. Trying to save them from year to year only increases virus load in the potatoes. Don't ever use potatoes bought at the grocery store for planting. They all have sprout inhibitor sprayed on them, and even though they may grow, they will not produce a normal crop.
> 
> Tip:150 # nitrogen per acre equals 25 oz of 13-13-13 fertilizer per 20 ft of row.
> 
> I use a systemic insecticide at planting, followed by foliar sprays later in the season for leafhoppers. Colorado potato beetle and leafhoppers are going to do the most damage to potatoes.
> 
> For disease, I use Daconil (chlorothalonil) and start spraying when the potatoes start filling in between rows.
> 
> Most important with potatoes is getting enough nitrogen on them. I till in nitrogen before planting. You don't necessarily need to apply fungicide, but it can help in raising final yield. Consistent moisture (rain or watering) is also important.
> 
> Garlic. I plant anywhere from late October to mid November, just want them in the ground before it freezes. You can plant in the spring but will have much smaller yield. Hard neck varieties are the best in our area. Several of my favorite varieties are "Armenian", "Romanian", "Chesnok Red" and "Spanish Roja".
> 
> BTW, if you have a hard time finding potato seed, try Jung Seed in Wisconsin. They carry many varieties, and might even have some garlic cloves for sale in the spring. I bought my garlic from a producer out west several years ago, and plant the largest cloves I produce each year. Garlic can be planted from year to year with saved cloves.


The local farm store sells Yukon Gold and Pontiac Red which I plant in the same row every year. That row is loamier since I augment it every year with either straw or mulch. I've planted deep and shallow, some years mix in straw so it's easier for them to grow. I get healthy looking plants, but no or very small potatoes. I use 12-12-12 and top dress or place in the hole. Never had trouble growing cobblers when my Dad was around, but now I only plant a 25 foot row because I hate digging hard soil and getting no return.


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## trc65

Ok. Here's what I would try this year. Incorporate the 12-12-12 when you till before planting, use one quart (dry measure) on your 25 ft row. Don't use any straw or mulch tilled into the soil. It's ok to use it on top, but any tilled in will tie up all your nitrogen.

Plant the tubers about 4 inches deep. Within a week or two of them emerging. I till between rows and mound the soil up around the plants to create a flat top hill around the plants. At this time, you can mulch them if you want. I'll see if I can find a picture of the hill I form around them.

The key with potatoes is nitrogen. They are a strange plant and if they don't have the nitrogen early in the season they won't set tubers. On your (and my) soils, the nitrogen won't leach, so applying it all early is OK.

See if the farm store also carries some Norland (or Red Norland, or Dark Red Norland) potatoes and try a few hills. If you plant in April, you can be eating new potatoes by the end of June!

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## Nature Man

trc65 said:


> Ok. Here's what I would try this year. Incorporate the 12-12-12 when you till before planting, use one quart (dry measure) on your 25 ft row. Don't use any straw or mulch tilled into the soil. It's ok to use it on top, but any tilled in will tie up all your nitrogen.
> 
> Plant the tubers about 4 inches deep. Within a week or two of them emerging. I till between rows and mound the soil up around the plants to create a flat top hill around the plants. At this time, you can mulch them if you want. I'll see if I can find a picture of the hill I form around them.
> 
> The key with potatoes is nitrogen. They are a strange plant and if they don't have the nitrogen early in the season they won't set tubers. On your (and my) soils, the nitrogen won't leach, so applying it all early is OK.
> 
> See if the farm store also carries some Norland (or Red Norland, or Dark Red Norland) potatoes and try a few hills. If you plant in April, you can be eating new potatoes by the end of June!


Do you have any opinions on incorporating steer manure into the soil? Chuck

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## trc65

Manure is great for a garden, as long as it isn't fresh manure. Fresh manure can burn plants and may contain bacteria that could transfer to the veggies you are eating. I think the general recommendation is for around 20 to 30 pounds of composted manure per 100 sq ft. 

Here is a guide on garden fertility for you Aggies.






You searched for fertilizer - Texas A&M Agrilife Extension Service







agrilifeextension.tamu.edu





Most land grant Universities will have publications for their respective states on hundreds of different home horticulture topics. If you can't find one for your state, look for your closest neighboring state. In the Midwest, Ohio State, Wisconsin and Minnesota have the best publications.

BTW don't use manure when growing potatoes. It creates very heavy scab pressure and you will have UGLY tubers.

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## djg

trc65 said:


> Ok. Here's what I would try this year. Incorporate the 12-12-12 when you till before planting, use one quart (dry measure) on your 25 ft row. Don't use any straw or mulch tilled into the soil. It's ok to use it on top, but any tilled in will tie up all your nitrogen.
> 
> Plant the tubers about 4 inches deep. Within a week or two of them emerging. I till between rows and mound the soil up around the plants to create a flat top hill around the plants. At this time, you can mulch them if you want. I'll see if I can find a picture of the hill I form around them.
> 
> The key with potatoes is nitrogen. They are a strange plant and if they don't have the nitrogen early in the season they won't set tubers. On your (and my) soils, the nitrogen won't leach, so applying it all early is OK.
> 
> See if the farm store also carries some Norland (or Red Norland, or Dark Red Norland) potatoes and try a few hills. If you plant in April, you can be eating new potatoes by the end of June!


Thanks, I'll give it a try. I may even plant a few hills in fresh ground as a test. I get mine from Rural King, you may have one around you. They only have Reds, white and Yukon. But there is a Market Basket around. I may try there.

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## trc65

We have Farm King which I based out of Macomb. Don't have a close Rural King. Far King usually carries Kennebec, Pontiac, Yukon Gold and Norland. I usually mail order the Superior from Jung's.

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## djg

Any tricks for dealing with those damn beetles that love Summer Squash? I spray with Sevin but getting to all of the undersides is tricky. I thought Jerry Baker recommended planting the seeds in newspaper, but I could be wrong.


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## Mike Hill

Don't look at me - I gave up years ago. I did not want to be known as "The only person who could not grow gobs of zucchini!" Plus I had some beehives in the yard and could not spray much, especially not Sevin!

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## djg

Someone please refresh my memory. For LED grow lights, does the lumens matter and if so, how low can you go. I know you want one between 5000k and 6000k, with high being better. We covered that extensively before here, but I searched and could not find the subject. I apologize for bringing it up again, but I just couldn't remember.

Disregard, I found it.


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## 2feathers Creative Making

Shop Lighting, and LED vs Fluorescent


I was looking at Ken's , aka @kweinert , thread on his shop and some discussion about lighting. Seems like one we can all relate to, but disappointingly scattered and marginal info out there. So...mine will perhaps add to the scatter, or not. I had to research this a bit recently for my own...



woodbarter.com





Disregard. He found it...

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## trc65

The lights I use growing my seedlings are all around 5000 lumen. On the grow rack I built, I use two led (or T8) fixtures to provide lighting for every 4 - 1020 flats (~46"x20" area). I use fixtures that have two rows of LEDs and a decent reflector. 

When growing seedlings you want to set the lights to about 18 hours on and 6 hours off. You also want the lights as close to the plants as you can while still getting lateral coverage. I keep mine 6" or less from the plants. Another consideration is temperature. Cooler is better for growing seedlings once they have germinated. In my basement right now the temp is 60°. Once seeds have germinated, they get moved off heat mats and will grow at 60-65° temps. Warm temps without sunlight equal long spindly plants that you will not be happy with.

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## trc65

djg said:


> Any tricks for dealing with those damn beetles that love Summer Squash? I spray with Sevin but getting to all of the undersides is tricky. I thought Jerry Baker recommended planting the seeds in newspaper, but I could be wrong.


I use a systemic insecticide at planting to control them. However, there is nothing on the market available to the home gardener with a label for a systemic soil application. I buy the chemical imidicloprid and calculate my own rates for this application. There are commercially labeled products for this application, but are only available in large amounts (and cost).

Rather than Sevin, I'd suggest you try one of the synthetic pyrethroids. These are the chemicals labeled for lawn and garden with broad spectrum control. Most of the chemical names end in the suffix -"thrin".

Examples labeled for the garden include bifenthrin, permethrin, cypermethrin, cyfluthrin, deltamethrin, and many others. They are relatively safe chemicals but pay attention to warnings on the label as to use rate, pre-harvest interval, and other safety instructions.

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## Sprung

Last night my wife and I sat down and planned out what exactly we are going to plant this year and where in the garden we will be planting it. We're doubling our raised bed space and have someone who offered for us to plant in part of their garden space and we're really looking forward to growing a whole lot more of what we eat. Placed our final seed order for the handful of seeds we still needed to get. She figured out what flowers she wants to add to planting around the house and we picked up the last handful of seed packets she needs for that as well. The only thing we haven't done yet is figure out expansion of fruit growing - we'd like to extend the raspberry patch and we know someone who needs to thin out their patch, so we will probably get some from him to transplant.

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## Mike Hill

Ok, keep your fingers crossed for me. If this bloom unfolds - it will be the first time in 35 years this daffodil will have bloomed. Here's to hoping!

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## Mike Hill

However, to salve my nerves - I do have these two! Although with the cold temps coming this weekend - they will not last and there will be no pears this year for the squirrels to eat.

Star Magnolia




Edible Pear

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## trc65

Why hasn't it been blooming?


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## Mike Hill

I wish I knew! They are in sun, in the yard - but I mow around them until the right time. But they will come up and send up a few buds and the buds will brown out and wither before they get this far. I thought they might be cold sensitive and get nipped by a late freeze, but there have been years that is not a problem and still no bloom. I wish I remembered the variety - I think it had Spanish in the name - but not sure.


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## 2feathers Creative Making

Put a milk jug top over them when it frosts?


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## trc65

Probably one of two things, or maybe a combination of the two. First is possibly too much nitrogen from lawn fertilizer (if you fertilize lawn), or they are over crowded. 

If you think it might be nitrogen, cut back fertilizing near them, and add some bulb fertilizer (high phosphorus) around the flowers when you are expecting some rains to help wash the fertilizer into the soil. Best timing is early when the daffodils just start emerging, but won't hurt now, and will be good for them if you think it might be part of the problem. 

My best guess is they are over crowded, especially if they have never been divided. Wait until foliage turns yellow and the leaves start to droop, then dig them up and divide them. Put some bulb fertilizer in each hole, a couple inches deeper than the bulb. Don't put the fertilizer in contact with the bulbs. Plant bulbs individually, and give them room to grow. Somewhere around a 12" inch spacing is good, any closer and you may have to divide them again in a few years. Around 6" depth. May not see a lot of blooms next year, but if you fertilize now and divide later this summer, might just be surprised next spring.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## trc65

2feathers Creative Making said:


> Put a milk jug top over them when it frosts?


Probably not necessary. They are very hardy. We had some peeking up around Christmas and between then and now we have had below zero temps. The tips will discolor, but won't hurt the bulbs or flowering. A hard frost when buds are present can affect bloom, but usually not a problem. If it is, just throw a bed sheet over them at night.


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## Mike Hill

I don't fertilize that part of the yard - so probably not a nitrogen problem, Overcrowding could be a problem, but they also did not bloom when they were young. They were actually part of a bed then, but did away with that bed. Maybe I will dig some up and replant to see what they look like if they don't bloom in the next day or two.

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## Wildthings

I think y'all are over thinking the problem....they just don't like Mikey!!

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## Mike Hill

Wildthings said:


> I think y'all are over thinking the problem....they just don't like Mikey!!


Cornfuscious says : Hmmm - could be!

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## Trob115

Mike Hill said:


> I don't fertilize that part of the yard - so probably not a nitrogen problem, Overcrowding could be a problem, but they also did not bloom when they were young. They were actually part of a bed then, but did away with that bed. Maybe I will dig some up and replant to see what they look like if they don't bloom in the next day or two.


Might be planted too deep. I've had daffodils not bloom due to that before. It's actually a really common problem. You need to re-dig them every 3/4 years to divide them too.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## JerseyHighlander

Mike Hill said:


> I wish I knew! They are in sun, in the yard - but I mow around them until the right time. But they will come up and send up a few buds and the buds will brown out and wither before they get this far. I thought they might be cold sensitive and get nipped by a late freeze, but there have been years that is not a problem and still no bloom. I wish I remembered the variety - I think it had Spanish in the name - but not sure.


Soil PH? Or lack of some nutrient...


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## Mike Hill

You mean 35 years is too long?   At the time the were planted - they were good. For a couple of years I bought quite the number of varieties - pink corollas, split corollas, picotee, Alfreds, etc......probably 30 to 40 total. All others up and bloomed and some have survived. But not this patch! It's obstinate and opposite - survived but not bloomed. But now you got my curiosity up and I'll have to dig some up and transplant. Its been very cool and they have not opened up yet.


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## Mike Hill

Mike Hill said:


> Ok, keep your fingers crossed for me. If this bloom unfolds - it will be the first time in 35 years this daffodil will have bloomed. Here's to hoping!
> 
> View attachment 223887


Well, It's been 9 days now, still no open bloom. Many buds have already browned out. A few more are showing color - here's to hoping!

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## Mike Hill



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## trc65

First bloom of the year on the first day of spring, a little species crocus.

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## Sprung

My wife's got a couple things blooming behind the house! These pics are a couple days old, so they're pretty open now.

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## Nature Man

Spring has arrived!!!

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## Mike Hill

Crocus are so welcome!

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

I dug up the last of the turnips yesterday. Still some spinach and lettuce hanging on and trying to keep a few carrots in the ground until Easter for the kids. I planted tomato plants, and seeded green beans (Blue lake and Roma II), Squash (Yellow, zucchini, acorn), cucumbers (pickling and slicing), Purple Hull peas, and another kind of field pea, and okra (cow horn). Supposed to rain tomorrow..... hope so...

Alan

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## trc65

It just a wee bit early to plant anything outside yet for us. Our last frost free date is mid April. My tomatoes are just starting to put out first true leaf in the basement.


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## Mike Hill

Here in Middle Tennershoe - in locations not up on the Plateau - over the winter we get maybe a literal handful of "snows". Now our definition of snow will make many of you here on WB guffaw - but it is what it is. And then Spring shows up and then we get three PINK snows. First is when all the tulip magnolia blooms drop at one time. Second is now - when the flowering cherries drop their blooms. The third is coming up in a few weeks - when all the kwanzan flowering cherries drop their fluffy powderpuff blooms. That is the most spectacular. I'm just glad I live in a neighborhood that the spring snows are pink and not YELLOW!!!

This is a pic of the second pink snow behind out building.

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## JerseyHighlander

Mike Hill said:


> Here in Middle Tennershoe - in locations not up on the Plateau - over the winter we get maybe a literal handful of "snows". Now our definition of snow will make many of you here on WB guffaw - but it is what it is. And then Spring shows up and then we get three PINK snows. First is when all the tulip magnolia blooms drop at one time. Second is now - when the flowering cherries drop their blooms. The third is coming up in a few weeks - when all the kwanzan flowering cherries drop their fluffy powderpuff blooms. That is the most spectacular. I'm just glad I live in a neighborhood that the spring snows are pink and not YELLOW!!!
> 
> This is a pic of the second pink snow behind out building.
> 
> View attachment 225211


You're having pink snow... we're still keeping a fire in the woodstove around the clock. The forest has that misty green look, like it's just waiting for somebody to say "Go!", but the weather keeps saying "keep your pants on".

I'm getting some cold weather veggy seeds in the ground. Hope you guys are prepping for empty supermarket shelves...

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## trc65

Not growing in the garden, but shivering in the cold frame waiting for warmer temps.

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## Sprung

I was going to start cleaning up the beds today, but then it started snowing. Yup, didn't happen today. We've got our seeds started in the basement, and I have a few more to get started. But it'll be a bit yet before planting happens.


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## trc65

We've only been in the 40's for the last couple weeks, and have had 6.5" rain in the last three weeks. Won't be any potatoes planted on Good Friday this year. 

Been cleaning up landscaping beds, but haven't touched the garden yet. On the plus side the garlic is about 6" tall and the spinach planted last fall is greening up. Rhubarb is up, but no sign of any asparagus yet.

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## Sprung

We've had a pretty good amount of rain lately, but I'm not sure exactly how much.

Your mentioning garlic brings to mind a question. Is there any chance of success with garlic if I spring plant it? We still have a few bulb that were given to us in the fall. I didn't get to plant them because, when I had planned to plant them was when we were sick with covid. By the time I was well enough to even think about planting it, the beds were already frozen. I've read a little bit about spring planting garlic, but not enough to really know when or if it would be viable.

So, do I give it a try? Or realize that it's probably too late and just get some bulbs and make sure I plant in the fall?


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## trc65

I'd give it a go especially with your raised beds that will heat up more quickly. If the beds are thawed, plant them right away. They will grow at temps just barely above freezing. You'll get production, just not quite as large bulbs. 

Don't know what you do for fertility, but the garlic likes a shot of readily available nitrogen at about emergence (40 #N/acre) and the same again about a month later. I use urea, but even a healthy dose of miracle grow (or other water dissolvable fert.) will work.

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## trc65

Here's a nice blossom, these are still living in the basement for now.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

It's been raining here every day....been kinda spotty though. Only rains anywhere I put the water hose.... We've had 3" of rain for the year. 

Alan


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## Sprung

trc65 said:


> I'd give it a go especially with your raised beds that will heat up more quickly. If the beds are thawed, plant them right away. They will grow at temps just barely above freezing. You'll get production, just not quite as large bulbs.
> 
> Don't know what you do for fertility, but the garlic likes a shot of readily available nitrogen at about emergence (40 #N/acre) and the same again about a month later. I use urea, but even a healthy dose of miracle grow (or other water dissolvable fert.) will work.



Thanks, Tim - I'll give it a go and see what happens. Good to know about the nitrogen. This is only our third year gardening, so still so much to learn.


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## djg

trc65 said:


> We've only been in the 40's for the last couple weeks, and have had 6.5" rain in the last three weeks. Won't be any potatoes planted on Good Friday this year.
> 
> Been cleaning up landscaping beds, but haven't touched the garden yet. On the plus side the garlic is about 6" tall and the spinach planted last fall is greening up. Rhubarb is up, but no sign of any asparagus yet.


I missed a chance to till the garden before all the rain you mentioned. I thought I'd be too late to plant the potatoes as you suggested earlier. It will probably be Tuesday. You can plant (seeds) in the Fall and they survive over the Winter?


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## 2feathers Creative Making

Sprung said:


> Thanks, Tim - I'll give it a go and see what happens. Good to know about the nitrogen. This is only our third year gardening, so still so much to learn.


Late snows give nitrogen to us for free. We are getting our free nitrogen this weekend.

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## trc65

djg said:


> I missed a chance to till the garden before all the rain you mentioned. I thought I'd be too late to plant the potatoes as you suggested earlier. It will probably be Tuesday. You can plant (seeds) in the Fall and they survive over the Winter?



Not the seeds, the spinach plants themselves will over winter. I seed them before it gets too cold in the fall, and as long as the plants get good growth before the ground freezes many will survive winter and give us fresh spinach before we can even till the ground.

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## Wildthings

@Mike Hill 
My hydroponic setup is up and growing. cukes on the right planted 5 days ago. Zucchini on the left planted yesterday

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## Mike Hill

Rub it it. I was able to find a few barrels if I wanted them for free. But then I looked around to see if I have anyplace to put them, but I have less sunny places than I did a few years ago. - Guess trees keep growing!


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## Mike Hill

Oh, the JOY!

Been waiting 3 years for this! Not as long as for a Davidia involucrata tree to bloom (5 years down - 2 more years to wait)
Tree Peony

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## Mike Hill

I love me some Spring!

White Feathers Hosta with a little American Ginger intermingled




Celandine Poppy




Variegated Solomon Seal





Trillium just unfurled




Fig with breba figs

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## Mike Hill

You might get a prize (not promising) if someone can guess this one.


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## 2feathers Creative Making

maybe I should give it a few. Neighbors are more likely to know what is growing next door so to speak.


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## Mike Hill

When my daughter got to toddler stage, I built her a playhouse. And because she loved anything pink, I planted her a pink dogwood next to the playhouse. It is one of my favorite flowers in the yard. It is very photogenic.

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## Mike Hill

Mike Hill said:


> You might get a prize (not promising) if someone can guess this one. Not many around - not native!
> 
> View attachment 225437


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## Nature Man

Mike Hill said:


> You might get a prize (not promising) if someone can guess this one.
> 
> View attachment 225437


Hawthorn


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## Mike Hill

Good guess, I see that you noticed the thorn! But nope.


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## Wildthings

Mike Hill said:


> You might get a prize (not promising) if someone can guess this one.
> 
> View attachment 225437


White flower!!

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## Trob115

We've got our tomatoes, peppers, squash, zucchini, and okra out. Hopefully will have some small cherry tomatoes in about 50 days. My backyard deer are not to happy my electric fence is on as they continue to test it out daily.

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## Trob115

@Mike Hill 

Chinese/Japanese bitter orange?


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## Mike Hill

Trob115 said:


> @Mike Hill
> 
> Chinese/Japanese bitter orange?


Ding, ding, ding - there is a winner! Citrus trifoliate

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## trc65

Not growing in the garden, but another sign of spring. Sunning on my gravel pile.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

Mike Hill said:


> Ding, ding, ding - there is a winner! Citrus trifoliate


They certainly have thorns... Ours was loaded year before last, didn't put on a single orange last year. 

Alan


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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

On the front sidewalk... I have a 2 year old grandson so this one lost its head....

Alan


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## Mike Hill

Did you skin it?

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## Eric Rorabaugh

That skin would make some cool looking cast pens!

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## Mike Hill

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> They certainly have thorns... Ours was loaded year before last, didn't put on a single orange last year.
> 
> Alan


we had a number of them last year. It is in full high shade so it doesn't bear much. But I love how the ripe fruits smell


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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

No, I didn't skin it. Skinning snakes is waaaaaay down on the "To Do" list these days... In fact I don't even see it down there...

I successfully preserved a rattlesnake skin once with antifreeze. I say "successful" because it didn't rot. It lost a lot of its color in the process.

Alan


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## Nubsnstubs

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> On the front sidewalk... I have a 2 year old grandson so this one lost its head....
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 225470


Is that a Coral snake? ............ There is also some candy in that picture. @Mike Hill, can you see it? It's so obvious to me..... Jerry (in Tucson)


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## Mike Hill

Nubsnstubs said:


> Is that a Coral snake? ............ There is also some candy in that picture. @Mike Hill, can you see it? It's so obvious to me..... Jerry (in Tucson)


Red and black - venom lack
Red and yellow - kill a fellow!

You might lick that candy! but I got diamonds for that!

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Planting flowers and tilling the yard into a garden. Nothing planted yet. Waiting for a retill as soon as the ground dries a smidge. This is a fallow ground run so I want a second run at this before I plant to break clods. We had a rain last night that softened the ground so maybe later this week we can drop our seeds

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## trc65

Asparagus is finally emerging.





And first bloom on the apricot.

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## Mike Hill



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## 2feathers Creative Making

springtime in Tennessee. State flower on the plateau.

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## trc65

Now it's really spring.

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## Trob115

Our first tomatoes are about grape size right now. Okra plants are finally up and should really start to take off with this warm weather we are having.
I 
also noticed about 3 of our 65 different daylily varieties are loading up with scapes. It shouldn't be much longer before our flower beds are bursting with color.

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## trc65

The little species tulips have started to bloom.





And I've got some daffodils planted in partial shade that bloom along with the wild Virginia bluebells.

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## Trob115

Roses are starting to show out.

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## djg

I went out to the garden and found the potatoes had sprouted. Then I found a half dozen had been dug up by something. Looks like the critter was after the fertilizer.


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## trc65

I just got potatoes planted this afternoon. It was really too wet, but already two weeks late and another half inch of rain predicted by morning.


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## trc65

Here are the potatoes.





And here are some of my tulips.

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## djg

How do you guard your tulips against deer? Two consecutive years I planted a 50' row in my garden, and deer got every one.

Your potatoes, you hill by hand (shovel)? Or other mechanical means?


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## 2feathers Creative Making

The garden salads are sprouting



the azaleas are blooming

and her chocolate mint is making a fine carpet in the rose bed.

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## trc65

djg said:


> How do you guard your tulips against deer? Two consecutive years I planted a 50' row in my garden, and deer got every one.
> 
> Your potatoes, you hill by hand (shovel)? Or other mechanical means?


If you look close at the tulip picture, you'll see some sections of fence that are over them. I also use "Plant Saver" deer repellent. It's expensive, but works. Just be aware though that coons like that repellent and will tear open the cloth bags and eat it. Now, instead of using the cloth bags, I just sprinkle the repellent around the tulips (and other plants).

Edit: Another thing I've learned with the repellent is that you will have much more success if you have the repellent applied before the deer start feeding. If you have a history of deer problems, get the repellent out as soon as the plants emerge. That way the deer will stop frequenting the area as they sense nothing worth eating. If you have feeding occur before the repellent is applied, you won't be nearly as successful in preventing damage.

I use a garden rake to hill the potatoes. I till each row with fertilizer, dig a shallow furrow and plant, then run the tiller on each side of each row, and use the rake to form the hills. If we get heavy rains that erode the hills, shortly after emergence I will till again to loosen soil and reform the hills.

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## Trob115

trc65 said:


> If you look close at the tulip picture, you'll see some sections of fence that are over them. I also use "Plant Saver" deer repellent. It's expensive, but works. Just be aware though that coons like that repellent and will tear open the cloth bags and eat it. Now, instead of using the cloth bags, I just sprinkle the repellent around the tulips (and other plants).
> 
> Edit: Another thing I've learned with the repellent is that you will have much more success if you have the repellent applied before the deer start feeding. If you have a history of deer problems, get the repellent out as soon as the plants emerge. That way the deer will stop frequenting the area as they sense nothing worth eating. If you have feeding occur before the repellent is applied, you won't be nearly as successful in preventing damage.
> 
> I use a garden rake to hill the potatoes. I till each row with fertilizer, dig a shallow furrow and plant, then run the tiller on each side of each row, and use the rake to form the hills. If we get heavy rains that erode the hills, shortly after emergence I will till again to loosen soil and reform the hills.


I have found that just the regular dial bar soap is a great deer repellent, and it's cheap! 

We have so many deer in our area that I have put up my electric fence to keep them out of the garden and flower beds. It's also a great entertainment to watch our dogs and the deer test is out. It's not enough shock to hurt anything , but they don't like it .

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Best I have seen is double fence. Maybe 4 to 6 feet apart. By the time they hop one, they are into the other. Helps if they are both hot wires.

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## Trob115

2feathers Creative Making said:


> Best I have seen is double fence. Maybe 4 to 6 feet apart. By the time they hop one, they are into the other. Helps if they are both hot wires.


I've used a 2 wire fence for several years now. Top wire is about 3.5' and the lower is about 1' off the ground. I just have to spray roundup around the perimeter to keep it from grounding out. That low wire really works well on keeping coons and possums out.

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## Eric Rorabaugh

Hot lead at 3000 fps keeps the deer out too

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## Trob115

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Hot lead at 3000 fps keeps the deer out too


Everyone look, the resident warden is advocating for out of season hunting

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## Eric Rorabaugh

Nope, not out of season hunting. We have kill permits for damage control. So nothing illegal

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## JerseyHighlander

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Nope, not out of season hunting. We have kill permits for damage control. So nothing illegal


I don't feel a need to say this among most of the company on this forum but, you never know who's reading this and I've just recently had more than my fill of stupid with firearms. Putting down deer that are destroying food crops is lawful for farmers and private land owners, but please insure a hard, impassable backstop beyond your intended target. Something other than your neighbors house or a wooded area where people may be. One of the many reasons people hunt from tree stands is that it puts the ground beyond the deer as a backstop the bullet can't go beyond. Far too many new gun owners out there lately that have no clue what they're doing.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Most of the time, crop damage kills are done at fairly short range. I have acquaintances who use shotguns with slugs for this. They don't travel so dang far across the flatter areas where our crops usually lay. Also have one friend who regularly uses a combine as a hunting blind putting him at a very nice ground angle most times.

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## trc65

Looks like it will be a good fruit year. Wild plums are in full bloom as are the pears. Apricot and peach blossoms survived the cold temps of the last week and the apple and cherry trees are showing color.

Here is a pic of the wild plums.

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## William Tanner

trc65 said:


> Looks like it will be a good fruit year. Wild plums are in full bloom as are the pears. Apricot and peach blossoms survived the cold temps of the last week and the apple and cherry trees are showing color.
> 
> Here is a pic of the wild plums.
> 
> View attachment 226230


I must say Tim that you appear to have a very interesting place.

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## Eric Rorabaugh

JerseyHighlander said:


> but please insure a hard, impassable backstop beyond your intended target. Something other than your neighbors house or a wooded area where people may be


I agree. If there isn't a safe way to shoot, I don't issue a permit. If someone does have a permit and does anything stupid or causes damage to anothers property, they could be charged for reckless handling and be responsible for any damages. MOST (not all) are responsible enough to do things the right way but there's always the exception to the rule.

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## trc65

William Tanner said:


> I must say Tim that you appear to have a very interesting place.


On about 7 acres with fields on three sides and timber/pasture on the fourth. Nearest neighbor is half mile as the crow flies. Lots of space for many different plantings, ornamental and garden. Only limitation is the time and energy to maintain all of them.....

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## SubVet10

Mike Hill said:


> Gotta stay away from this thread - it makes me too depressed. After 42 years living in the same place about all I have room for is a half dozen tomato and pepper plants - and they don't do all that well because of shade - intenode spacing is way long. Bout all I can do now is hostas, impatients, ferns, eastern woodland wildflowers, azaleas, OLH, and caladiums - and I nurse a few peonies, tree peonies, and Interstems and oriental lillies. Where I have the most sun, I decided on figs and jap. persimmons. I've got one little spot near the mailbox (its where I have the best drainage) where I put rosemary, sage, several varieties of echinacea, buddleia, some rare peonies, and my girls - frilly daylillies and those great smelling oriental lillies


You can still do an appreciable amount of veggies with only a few old tires or buckets.


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## SubVet10

I have five 3 gallon bags of potatoes that are growing inches a day, one of scallions from bulbs, two of greens onions from seed and one of tomatoes from seed. No transplants.

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## Mike Hill

SubVet10 said:


> You can still do an appreciable amount of veggies with only a few old tires or buckets.


Yeh, done that - got the t-shirt. Problem, it's still shady whether in pots or in ground. Plus with what I was paying for potting soil, pots, etc.... I could buy a lot of tomatoes - plus I don't have to water the pots all the time. Years ago - (pre majority of shade) I tried potatoes in a big tall can one time. First time didn't do too bad, but got in the can late and figured the yield was low because of that. The second year, I only got one small potato and probably spent $10 in soil and fertilizer.

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## trc65

We need some dry weather!!! It was too wet yesterday, but I still tilled a few rows and transplanted onions and planted spinach, radishes, green onions and peas. 0.75" rain today, with another 1.5" expected Thursday and Friday. Will be another 7-10 days after that before it dries enough to get back at it...

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## SubVet10

Garden revision one. Added some greens to the tators. B-F, L-R: green onions, scallions x 2, Pontiac tator, tomatoes.
French fingerling x3, Pontiac x 2.

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## Wildthings

Here's my container garden this year

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## Sprung

Finally starting to see a few things popping up - some peas, some lettuces, radishes, some broccoli. The Egyptian Walking Onion we were given last year and planted is doing well. We've finally had some nicer days - 3 days in a row of sun, after more than a week of blah. But it's also been breezy. Next week should be warmer - looking forward to that.

Today we brought in dirt and filled in the new raised beds. I need to get some cattle panel yet - that will get attached to the posts for a permanent trellis.

Today the raspberry bare roots and blackberry plants I ordered arrived. The raspberry roots will get put into the ground tomorrow. Blackberries will get transplanted next weekend to get us several days beyond our average last frost date.

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## trc65

Hadn't thought about cattle panel for trellis. I've switched from bush green beans to pole beans (easier on back and knees) and am trying some pole Lima beans this year. Last couple years been using thin nylon trellis, but going to try your idea of cattle panels instead. Still have quite a few laying around, and lots of fence posts.

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## Mr. Peet

Sprung said:


> Finally starting to see a few things popping up - some peas, some lettuces, radishes, some broccoli. The Egyptian Walking Onion we were given last year and planted is doing well. We've finally had some nicer days - 3 days in a row of sun, after more than a week of blah. But it's also been breezy. Next week should be warmer - looking forward to that.
> 
> Today we brought in dirt and filled in the new raised beds. I need to get some cattle panel yet - that will get attached to the posts for a permanent trellis.
> 
> Today the raspberry bare roots and blackberry plants I ordered arrived. The raspberry roots will get put into the ground tomorrow. Blackberries will get transplanted next weekend to get us several days beyond our average last frost date.
> 
> View attachment 226436


You telling me Kewaunee's last frost is usually around the 15th of May? Figured being that much further north than us, your date would be later than us. Spring peepers told us May 20th this year, so will see how close they are. Those cattle panels work great for cherry tomatoes and cucumbers as well.

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## Sprung

trc65 said:


> Hadn't thought about cattle panel for trellis. I've switched from bush green beans to pole beans (easier on back and knees) and am trying some pole Lima beans this year. Last couple years been using thin nylon trellis, but going to try your idea of cattle panels instead. Still have quite a few laying around, and lots of fence posts.



The cattle panel is not my idea - been seeing a lot of people using it and liked it as we wanted something that would hold up and that we wouldn't have to redo each year.



Mr. Peet said:


> You telling me Kewaunee's last frost is usually around the 15th of May? Figured being that much further north than us, your date would be later than us. Spring peepers told us May 20th this year, so will see how close they are. Those cattle panels work great for cherry tomatoes and cucumbers as well.



No, our last average frost date is May 7. Kewaunee is right on Lake Michigan - we live 5 blocks from the lake - which has a huge affect on our weather.

I bought the raspberry bare roots and blackberry plants from Stark Bros. and they say the raspberry roots can go in anytime - since they're dormant a possible frost won't be a problem. But since the blackberries are plants and not bare roots, they say to wait until after chance of frost to transplant. So I'm going to wait until next weekend to transplant the blackberries, especially because it has been a little colder than normal here lately.

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## DLJeffs

Sprung said:


> The cattle panel is not my idea - been seeing a lot of people using it and liked it as we wanted something that would hold up and that we wouldn't have to redo each year.
> 
> 
> 
> No, our last average frost date is May 7. Kewaunee is right on Lake Michigan - we live 5 blocks from the lake - which has a huge affect on our weather.
> 
> I bought the raspberry bare roots and blackberry plants from Stark Bros. and they say the raspberry roots can go in anytime - since they're dormant a possible frost won't be a problem. But since the blackberries are plants and not bare roots, they say to wait until after chance of frost to transplant. So I'm going to wait until next weekend to transplant the blackberries, especially because it has been a little colder than normal here lately.


Do you worry about the blackberry and raspberries spreading? Around here, those things will take over and become very hard to get rid of when you need to. They can become a real nuisance. A tasty nuisance but still a nuisance.


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## Sprung

DLJeffs said:


> Do you worry about the blackberry and raspberries spreading? Around here, those things will take over and become very hard to get rid of when you need to. They can become a real nuisance. A tasty nuisance but still a nuisance.



No, not really. Where they're going here, and where the raspberries were where we previously lived, the area around it is all lawn. So with lawn moving right up to the edges of the patches, they haven't spread beyond the area we've designated for them.


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## djg

Sprung said:


> The cattle panel is not my idea - been seeing a lot of people using it and liked it as we wanted something that would hold up and that we wouldn't have to redo each year.
> 
> I bought the raspberry bare roots and blackberry plants from Stark Bros......


I've got my tame Blackberries trellised on a section I've got raised off the ground 1.5'. Get 6 foot + high vines that way.

Stark Bros? I thought they went out of business?

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## Sprung

djg said:


> Stark Bros? I thought they went out of business?



If they did, even they don't know that, lol. Ordered from them last week and received everything today.

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## Trob115

First daylily bloom of the season for us.

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## Wildthings

Speaking of blackberries, well we call them dewberries here. Here's about 10 minutes picking them this evening. The spot I've been going to for the last 10 years is being turned into commercial warehouses. I'm sure this is my last year at that place and the very minimum amount of rain we received this spring most of them are small, abundant but small





I'm really enjoying the pouch of wildflowers seeds I sown in the small area around my septic system. I planted pretty late but they're showcasing themselves right now. Even a few bluebonnets

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## djg

Wildthings said:


> Speaking of blackberries, well we call them dewberries .....


Dewberries are different than blackberries. Blackberries grow on erect canes and dewberries are ground vines. We use to pick both on on farm, but slightly different seasons.

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## Wildthings

djg said:


> Dewberries are different than blackberries. Blackberries grow on erect canes and dewberries are ground vines. We use to pick both on on farm, but slightly different seasons.


Yessir. They are very different and I have had both here. Just worded it that way cuz lots of folks moving in around here from other areas of the country will call them blackberries. I see some dewberry cobbler in my near future

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## djg

Wildthings said:


> Yessir. They are very different and I have had both here. Just worded it that way cuz lots of folks moving in around here from other areas of the country will call them blackberries. I see some dewberry cobbler in my near future


Didn't mean to tell you something you already knew. Refresh my memory, which fruits first? We use to pick them as a kid on our farm and I believe the dewberry season was first. But the farm is gone and I haven't found any in years. I'd like to go back to the farm, identify a patch and dig up some starts. New farmer is OK with that.


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## Mike Hill

What I liked about what we called Dewberries was the lack of thorns. Years - well, decades - ago the Aggie Airport had some fields around it that were filled with dewberries. I so much liked dewberry cobbler, I would pick a few gallons to take home to mom for her to make dewberry cobbler. Now that was a 3 1/2 hour drive to do that!

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## Mike Hill

Wildthings said:


> Speaking of blackberries, well we call them dewberries here. Here's about 10 minutes picking them this evening. The spot I've been going to for the last 10 years is being turned into commercial warehouses. I'm sure this is my last year at that place and the very minimum amount of rain we received this spring most of them are small, abundant but small
> 
> View attachment 226500
> 
> I'm really enjoying the pouch of wildflowers seeds I sown in the small area around my septic system. I planted pretty late but they're showcasing themselves right now. Even a few bluebonnets
> 
> View attachment 226501 View attachment 226502 View attachment 226503 View attachment 226504 View attachment 226505


Dewberries and b'bonnets - takes me back to the younger more carefree days!

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## Mike Hill

There is just something about peonies that makes Lil Mikey happy!

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## djg

Mike Hill said:


> What I liked about what we called Dewberries was the lack of thorns. Years - well, decades - ago the Aggie Airport had some fields around it that were filled with dewberries. I so much liked dewberry cobbler, I would pick a few gallons to take home to mom for her to make dewberry cobbler. Now that was a 3 1/2 hour drive to do that!


The Dewberries we use to pick had thorns. But maybe yours was a different variety.


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## 2feathers Creative Making

Mike Hill said:


> There is just something about peonies that makes Lil Mikey happy!
> 
> View attachment 226597View attachment 226598View attachment 226600


Oh hush, now. Just because your stuffs 2 weeks ahead of mine is no need to rub it in

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## Wildthings

djg said:


> Didn't mean to tell you something you already knew. Refresh my memory, which fruits first? We use to pick them as a kid on our farm and I believe the dewberry season was first. But the farm is gone and I haven't found any in years. I'd like to go back to the farm, identify a patch and dig up some starts. New farmer is OK with that.



No worries my find. just clarifying my badly written words



Mike Hill said:


> What I liked about what we called Dewberries was the lack of thorns. Years - well, decades - ago the Aggie Airport had some fields around it that were filled with dewberries. I so much liked dewberry cobbler, I would pick a few gallons to take home to mom for her to make dewberry cobbler. *Now that was a 3 1/2 hour drive to do that!*


Yeah but oh so worth it!!


djg said:


> The Dewberries we use to pick had thorns. But maybe yours was a different variety.


Mine too. thorns that will grab every finger and piece of clothing

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## trc65

Mike Hill said:


> What I liked about what we called Dewberries was the lack of thorns. Years - well, decades - ago the Aggie Airport had some fields around it that were filled with dewberries. I so much liked dewberry cobbler, I would pick a few gallons to take home to mom for her to make dewberry cobbler. Now that was a 3 1/2 hour drive to do that!


When I was kid wandering the pasture and found black raspberries, never seemed enough to make a pie. Rather than just eat them, convinced Mom to teach me how to make pie crust. There wasn't enough to make a normal pie, but there was enough to make myself a mini pie.

Remember those horrible frozen pot pies that took 45 minutes in the oven to cook? They came in nice little aluminum pie tins. Would make pie crust for my mini pie and the left over dough would be rolled thin and spread with cinnamon and sugar and baked. Win-win, I'd get my raspberry pie and the rest of the family could have the cinnamon crust.

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## Mike Hill

Oh Frank - for information purposes only - here's a few more to look forward to! These lower elevations aren't too bad - sometimes!! All are different varieties of herbaceous peonies - well except for the iris at the last.

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## SubVet10

Wildthings said:


> Speaking of blackberries, well we call them dewberries here. Here's about 10 minutes picking them this evening. The spot I've been going to for the last 10 years is being turned into commercial warehouses. I'm sure this is my last year at that place and the very minimum amount of rain we received this spring most of them are small, abundant but small
> 
> View attachment 226500
> 
> I'm really enjoying the pouch of wildflowers seeds I sown in the small area around my septic system. I planted pretty late but they're showcasing themselves right now. Even a few bluebonnets
> 
> View attachment 226501 View attachment 226502 View attachment 226503 View attachment 226504 View attachment 226505


I was surprised to read the other day that black, blue and raspberries grow well here. May add them to the list next year.


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## JerseyHighlander

Lets see who can identify this one. Growing both in my garden and the surrounding woods of my property. 
My money's on the gentleman from Nashville. If that guy from Pennsyltuckey doesn't get it first.


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## Eric Rorabaugh

Looks almost like mayapple but leaves look different

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## trc65

I believe that's goldenseal.

Grown/harvested for it's medicinal properties.

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## Eric Rorabaugh

I believe you may be right. Didn't think about that.

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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> I believe that's goldenseal.
> 
> Grown/harvested for it's medicinal properties.

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## trc65

Fairly easy for me, when I was in Grad school in Wisconsin, helped out a little with a project that was looking at cultivated goldenseal production to help the commercial ginseng growers. Idea was to utilize established shade structures after the ginseng was harvested. Ginseng exhibits autotoxicity and after harvesting a plot, it is nearly impossible to establish ginseng again on that same ground.

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## JerseyHighlander

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Looks almost like mayapple but leaves look different


The leaf does look a lot like Mayapple, espesially early in the development. 

Thoght for sure it would be a bit more difficult for most everybody here. Too much intelligent company around here.

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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> Fairly easy for me, when I was in Grad school in Wisconsin, helped out a little with a project that was looking at cultivated goldenseal production to help the commercial ginseng growers. Idea was to utilize established shade structures after the ginseng was harvested. Ginseng exhibits autotoxicity and after harvesting a plot, it is nearly impossible to establish ginseng again on that same ground.


Interesting, didn't know that. I have Ginseng growing too, just hasn't come up yet. 
What's behind the autotoxity, compound produced by rootlets being severed or something to do with commercial farming?


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## trc65

It's entirely something exuded through the roots as the plants mature. Probably more exuded after harvest. Sometimes you can get more ginseng to germinate, but may die soon after germination, or if it survives the plant will never thrive. Big issue for longtime ginseng growers as they are running out of land that hasn't been in production. 

I'm sure that science could find a solution, but it's a very small industry in numbers and acres, so not a lot of big money available for research. Additionally the growers are very secretive and many are not particularly receptive to sharing info with researchers. 

It's big money for individual operations and lots of money/resources are spent to prevent poaching of roots. Guard dogs, fencing, remote sensors/cameras and of course firearms are all used to protect the crop.

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## Cliff.

trc65 said:


> When I was kid wandering the pasture and found black raspberries, never seemed enough to make a pie. Rather than just eat them, convinced Mom to teach me how to make pie crust. There wasn't enough to make a normal pie, but there was enough to make myself a mini pie.
> 
> Remember those horrible frozen pot pies that took 45 minutes in the oven to cook? They came in nice little aluminum pie tins. Would make pie crust for my mini pie and the left over dough would be rolled thin and spread with cinnamon and sugar and baked. Win-win, I'd get my raspberry pie and the rest of the family could have the cinnamon crust.


Black raspberries, yes to that!!! Getting me excited.
Here is a pic from last year.

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## Wildthings



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## Mike Hill

Goldenseal and bloodroot i do ok with. 'seng less than stellar. The quality of soil in my yard is likely the culprit as well as temperature - average temperature too high. And then again it may be voles and moles!

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

Purplehull peas are starting to put on. Cucumbers (pickling and slicing) have been making for two weeks now. Squash (yellow, zucchini, and acorn) are making. Sweet peppers (banana and pepperoncini) are starting to make. Red potatoes need to be dug up this weekend. Okra starting to flower. Green beans are giving my back fits (I'm going to start planting pole beans). The first ripening tomatoes had blossom end rot, so I'll be fighting that again this year. I think that's all....

Our problem is we can't eat it fast enough and the neighbors run inside when they see us coming (they really don't, but they might start)...

Alan

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## Mr. Peet

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> Purplehull peas are starting to put on. Cucumbers (pickling and slicing) have been making for two weeks now. Squash (yellow, zucchini, and acorn) are making. Sweet peppers (banana and pepperoncini) are starting to make. Red potatoes need to be dug up this weekend. Okra starting to flower. Green beans are giving my back fits (I'm going to start planting pole beans). The first ripening tomatoes had blossom end rot, so I'll be fighting that again this year. I think that's all....
> 
> Our problem is we can't eat it fast enough and the neighbors run inside when they see us coming (they really don't, but they might start)...
> 
> Alan


I find it so interesting how the growing seasons very so much across the country. You are harvesting cucs and squash and we are just planting them (indoors). However last Saturday was rain and snow, and the 'S' word has been done for many. Mikey shows off prized peonies, while ours have just sprouted this past week. We had 3 killing frosts this past week. Some of the trees look fine but the Aspen family look like they were burned and will need to resprout. Lawn mowing season is just beginning. Cool morning in the 30's with rapid warming to the 60's and 70's. Spring is sprung in the Poconos.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

And, by the middle of June and certainly by July it'll mostly be gone due to the heat and lack of rain. In July I can water in the morning and by noon the plants look like they've been steamed. This year will likely be worse. We've had very little rain and water is money.

I tell people that we have two winters... December-February and June - August (mid September). Of course the weather is the MOST unpredictable part of the equation. We could get an early freeze and have it kill everything or no freeze at all. There have been years that I've had fall tomato and pepper plants go over winter and produce till the next July. Then other times they are killed in November...

Gardening = the ultimate optimism...


Alan

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## Wildthings

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> Purplehull peas are starting to put on. Cucumbers (pickling and slicing) have been making for two weeks now. Squash (yellow, zucchini, and acorn) are making. Sweet peppers (banana and pepperoncini) are starting to make. Red potatoes need to be dug up this weekend. Okra starting to flower. Green beans are giving my back fits (I'm going to start planting pole beans). T*he first ripening tomatoes had blossom end rot,* so I'll be fighting that again this year. I think that's all....
> 
> Our problem is we can't eat it fast enough and the neighbors run inside when they see us coming (they really don't, but they might start)...
> 
> Alan


Same here on my tomatoes


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## JerseyHighlander

Not What's growing" per se but a vital part of it. 

Just upgraded from the old 50 gal. barrel.

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## trc65

Mr. Peet said:


> I find it so interesting how the growing seasons very so much across the country. You are harvesting cucs and squash and we are just planting them (indoors). However last Saturday was rain and snow, and the 'S' word has been done for many. Mikey shows off prized peonies, while ours have just sprouted this past week. We had 3 killing frosts this past week. Some of the trees look fine but the Aspen family look like they were burned and will need to resprout. Lawn mowing season is just beginning. Cool morning in the 30's with rapid warming to the 60's and 70's. Spring is sprung in the Poconos.



We have been mowing for a month, and had three days with heat indexes over 100° this week. Been too wet to do a huge amount in garden, but tomatoes and peppers were just transplanted, the same time that peas and spinach are emerging. Apple trees have about dropped their last petals. Had another half inch of rain last night so will be a couple days until can till in the garden again.

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## trc65

For you guys with blossom end rot, are you applying any calcium (gypsum)?

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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> We have been mowing for a month, and had three days with heat indexes over 100° this week. Been too wet to do a huge amount in garden, but tomatoes and peppers were just transplanted, the same time that peas and spinach are emerging. Apple trees have about dropped their last petals. Had another half inch of rain last night so will be a couple days until can till in the garden again.


Wow! We just had what will hopefully be the last indoor fire of the season, just last week. Usually only at night to take the chill off this time of year, that one started at night, through the next day and through the night. Trees were all beginning to pop with leaves but slammed on the brakes. No frost damage thankfully, this time. The Shagbark Hickories are still waiting on the rain to pop their buds.


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## djg

trc65 said:


> We have been mowing for a month, and had three days with heat indexes over 100° this week. Been too wet to do a huge amount in garden, but tomatoes and peppers were just transplanted, the same time that peas and spinach are emerging. Apple trees have about dropped their last petals. Had another half inch of rain last night so will be a couple days until can till in the garden again.


Just south of you, but I'm guessing it's too late to plant peas? Got too much rain and other things going on. Ever do a Fall crop? What month you plant them in? Same with spinach?


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## trc65

If you could get them in the ground in the next week, I'd go ahead and plant the peas and spinach. They should emerge within a week and you should still get a decent crop. If it gets and stays hot, watch the peas closely near harvest as they will go from succulent to BB's in about 2 days. You should get some decent harvest off the spinach, although it might bolt sooner than usual.

As to fall plantings, maturity on peas is around ~65 days depending on variety and temp. Mid August is usually a safe bet for fall seeding of peas as that should give you a harvest in the last two weeks of October. 

Spinach is around 40 days (for mature leaves) so can be planted the same time as the peas and you'll get an extended harvest into the fall. For spinach that I leave to over winter for early spring harvest, I'll plant it around the first of October but won't harvest any leaves from it.

You can do an August planting of broccoli and cauliflower for fall harvest.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

trc65 said:


> For you guys with blossom end rot, are you applying any calcium (gypsum)?



Our soils down here are made out of calcium carbonate....

We've got calcium in the water so bad that unless you've got a softener we have to replace fixtures and water heaters on a regular basis. Toilets will actually "grow" a layer of calcium out form the sides of the tank.... and so on....

No, I've never tried putting out calcium or gypsum...

Alan


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## trc65

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> Our soils down here are made out of calcium carbonate....
> 
> We've got calcium in the water so bad that unless you've got a softener we have to replace fixtures and water heaters on a regular basis. Toilets will actually "grow" a layer of calcium out form the sides of the tank.... and so on....
> 
> No, I've never tried putting out calcium or gypsum...
> 
> Alan


That's a lot of calcium!


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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

In the bright side, we have strong bones... 

My gardens have a constant input of live oak leaf mulch and compost and additional nitrogen is a must. 

The main cause of blossom end rot down here is uneven watering, or so I've been told. I believe it because keeping water on things is an every day job and it is seldom that I get it all done in a timely manner.

Alan

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## Sprung

It was a very busy week for me, so while the weather was nice, I didn't get to enjoy it or get any outside work done until yesterday and today. We managed to get some things done over the last couple days. My wife has worked some more on her flowers that are behind our house. Blackberries were transplanted. Herbs, carrots, and a second round of lettuces got planted for a staggered harvest. Garlic, onions, shallots, leeks, broccoli, peas, and lettuces are all popping up. Did have to replant some peas due to low germination on one of the varieties I planted. Last year we put a border around where the elderberries are planted and just finally got a chance to get it filled in - put down some cardboard and then some dirt. My wife planted some myrtle (vinca minor) that will spread and be some nice ground cover in that area. We've really seen a lot of stuff sprout, green up, or come to life in the last week, now that we've finally had some sun and warmer weather.

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## trc65

Here's a pic from earlier in the week after I got tomatoes planted (buckets). Since then, got peppers eggplant, collard greens, cabbage, celery and various herbs transplanted. Everything that has been seeded is up and looking good. Hope it stays dry for a while so I can get beans and sweet corn planted.

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## JerseyHighlander

Mike Hill said:


> Goldenseal and bloodroot i do ok with. 'seng less than stellar. The quality of soil in my yard is likely the culprit as well as temperature - average temperature too high. And then again it may be voles and moles!


Goldenseal & bloodroot tolerate the sunlight much more, ginseng likes a dense forest canopy and the forest loam soil underneath it. Anything more than dappled sunlight and it goes south fast. In my experience the light is a bigger factor than the soil. Some of mine is growing well in some pretty mediocre - crappy soil. 
If I could keep the damned slugs off my Goldenseal, I'd be doing well.

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## Mike Hill

Mr. Peet said:


> I find it so interesting how the growing seasons very so much across the country. You are harvesting cucs and squash and we are just planting them (indoors). However last Saturday was rain and snow, and the 'S' word has been done for many. Mikey shows off prized peonies, while ours have just sprouted this past week. We had 3 killing frosts this past week. Some of the trees look fine but the Aspen family look like they were burned and will need to resprout. Lawn mowing season is just beginning. Cool morning in the 30's with rapid warming to the 60's and 70's. Spring is sprung in the Poconos.


Or the variance in times for sunset and sunrise. I was in San Antonio area a week ago. Same time zone. But it starts getting too dark to distinguish weeds from plants I want to keep at about 7:30 or a little later. In Central Tex I could probably go to 8:15 or later. But of course, in Texas I would have had to skinny down to my skivvies because of the invidiously and copiously aforementioned "heat" --- but I would still be pulling weeds! It's Lil Mikey's life-long aspiration! All he has to do is romance that certain persons heads are being pulled! It's his muse!

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## Mike Hill

JerseyHighlander said:


> Wow! We just had what will hopefully be the last indoor fire of the season, just last week. Usually only at night to take the chill off this time of year, that one started at night, through the next day and through the night. Trees were all beginning to pop with leaves but slammed on the brakes. No frost damage thankfully, this time. The Shagbark Hickories are still waiting on the rain to pop their buds.


Man, I thought all y'all had (that's southern talk) was shores - ya know surf, sand and Guidos!

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## Mike Hill

JerseyHighlander said:


> Goldenseal & bloodroot tolerate the sunlight much more, ginseng likes a dense forest canopy and the forest loam soil underneath it. Anything more than dappled sunlight and it goes south fast. In my experience the light is a bigger factor than the soil. Some of mine is growing well in some pretty mediocre - crappy soil.
> If I could keep the damned slugs off my Goldenseal, I'd be doing well.


Yeh, I've had it in pretty deep shade. But pretty depleted soil. Also possibility that it was in an area that did not get much water from the sprinkler by being blocked or something. Also, they were in an area within the dripline of a mature walnut tree. They got that juglone stuff that is said to inhibit growth in some plants. I wonder if ginseng is especially intolerant of juglone? 

Slugs dont bother my goldenseal. got too many tasty hostas for them to chew on i guess!


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## JerseyHighlander

Mike Hill said:


> Man, I thought all y'all had (that's southern talk) was shores - ya know surf, sand and Guidos!


All behind me now and at much lower elevation. Don't get me started on the latter...


Mike Hill said:


> Yeh, I've had it in pretty deep shade. But pretty depleted soil. Also possibility that it was in an area that did not get much water from the sprinkler by being blocked or something. Also, they were in an area within the dripline of a mature walnut tree. They got that juglone stuff that is said to inhibit growth in some plants. I wonder if ginseng is especially intolerant of juglone?
> 
> Slugs dont bother my goldenseal. got too many tasty hostas i guess!


My money is on the Walnut being the issue. It's a well deserved reputation. I do a lot of work with Black Walnut medicinally and even after extracting most everything, I'm still careful where I toss the debris in the yard. It's a great source of medicine all by itself though, easily on par with Ginseng for me. 

Another factor with Ginseng is try to plant it on north east facing slopes, if you have any. The more leaf litter the better.

One day I'm going to train the slugs to eat the poison ivy and I'll be a happy man.

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## Mike Hill

"One day I'm going to train the slugs to eat the poison ivy and I'll be a happy man."

When you do - let me know! I'd like to invest and share in some of the fortune that you will make!

That along with mosquito and mole eradicatorsl. Oh, and non-explosive (for city use) squirrel dissuaders.

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## Mike Hill

JerseyHighlander said:


> All behind me now and at much lower elevation. Don't get me started on the latter...
> 
> My money is on the Walnut being the issue. It's a well deserved reputation. I do a lot of work with Black Walnut medicinally and even after extracting most everything, I'm still careful where I toss the debris in the yard. It's a great source of medicine all by itself though, easily on par with Ginseng for me.
> 
> Another factor with Ginseng is try to plant it on north east facing slopes, if you have any. The more leaf litter the better.
> 
> One day I'm going to train the slugs to eat the poison ivy and I'll be a happy man.


Hostas, ferns, and azaleas don't seem to be affected all that much by the walnut. And have had some volunteer tomatoes (marble sized) that have sprouted under the walnuts and they've gone crazy with the quantity of tomatoes (and I dont really like the little squishy things though) even in the shade. 

I made some Nicone a few years back (been aging since) - would that be considered medicine?

Now, I have gallons upon gallons of spent shells - now I am not a shooter, so these are not spent casings - but walnut shells which the squirrels have nibbled upon. I've been picking them up as I've grown tired of piercing the skin of my knees with them if I get on my knees to weed! or they get stuck in the soles of my shoes. I was originally thinking I'd grind them up and throw in my beds for soil amendments, but then thought about the juglone. All I've done so far is to soak some in water for quite a while to see if I can get some serviceable ink or dye. I've still got in my mind to smoke some meat with them, but hesitant. For years, I listened to the myth-makers and did not smoke with walnut - toxic, bitter, allergenic, yucky, etc. Then tried some brisket myself - pretty good to me. I've wanted to try the shells, but don't have a stick burner at this time. Gonna make a concrete block pit soon though and will try in there.

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## trc65

Some flowers:

















And our little Japanese maple that was bought from Aldi's about 7 years ago.

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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> Some flowers:
> 
> View attachment 226967
> 
> View attachment 226968
> 
> View attachment 226969
> 
> View attachment 226970
> 
> And our little Japanese maple that was bought from Aldi's about 7 years ago.
> 
> View attachment 226971


What is that flower in the first two pictures?


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## trc65

Those are columbines, Aquilegia spp. They easily hybridize (and reseed) and you can get some amazing colors that stray from the original over time. That area started with A. canadensis (eastern red columbine), A. caerulea (Colorado blue columbine) and A. chrysantha (golden columbine) that I started from seed.

The red and yellow flower is most likely a cross between the eastern and golden columbines based on blossom size and brilliant yellows. The blue/purple is probably a cross of the eastern and Colorado. Based primarily on the red/purple hues that differ from the original blue color. 

They are shade to partial sun plants that usually live on the border of wooded/prairie areas. These get full sun for maybe 3 hours a day.

Usually you can't find plants of the species, so I started all of these from seed originally.

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## Sprung

Tim, the hybridization of your columbines reminds me of my wife's four o'clocks. She had gotten some seeds from someone's plants - yellow, white, and pink. The seeds, when she got them, were all mixed together, so they got planted in the same area. That was spring 2020. Plants were true to color that year - some plants had yellow flowers, others had white, the others pink. Last year we had pink ones and not many yellow or white ones - but we had lots of them that had flowers that were both yellow and white, each flower varying in how much of each color it had.

It'll be interesting to see what the colors are this year.

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## William Tanner

Big Max pumpkins being planted tomorrow. You would think that with an acre, I could plant more than a few pumpkin plants.

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## Trob115

Here are a few of our daylilies that are blooming.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

All I did today was pick, wash, prep, cook and eat Veggies. I smoked some pork ribs and we had Yellow Squash, Okra, Purple hull peas, Cucumbers and tomatoes for supper. #1 wife put up another batch of sweet/dill pickles. It rained last night. It was a good weekend.

Alan

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## trc65

That sounds like a great feast!

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Ok. Now you are showing off! We only have radish and salad greens ready to eat. Just planted a few more greens and a few peanuts and 3 different gourd family. It's a strain finding separate quarters on 2/3 acre for zucchini, winter squash, bird house gourds, yellow squash and still trying to find cucumber and watermelon and cantaloupe homes...

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## trc65

Not in the garden, but providing beauty and wonderful scent to the whole area.

Black locust blooms.

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## Wildthings

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> All I did today was pick, wash, prep, cook and eat Veggies. I smoked some pork ribs and we had Yellow Squash, Okra, Purple hull peas, Cucumbers and tomatoes for supper. #1 wife put up another batch of sweet/dill pickles. It rained last night. It was a good weekend.
> 
> Alan


I picked my first Celebrity tomato and Lemon Boy tomatoes today. Also, some Shishito, Banana and Jalapeño peppers. And it rained 3/4" this morning, first rain in 3 weeks. Tomorrow that Celebrity is going to be a "Mater Sammich" can't wait

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## Eric Rorabaugh

Barry, are those tomatoes an heirloom variety? Anyone here plant heirloom veggies?


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## Sprung

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Anyone here plant heirloom veggies?



Almost everything we're planting this year are heirlooms. Much of what we're planting this year we ordered from Baker Creek, but have bought from other sources as well. Provider bush beans are a favorite of ours. Last year we were given a tomato seedling of an heirloom that can be traced back to the family who brought their seeds with them from Bohemia.

We seed saved from some of the heirlooms we grew last year and had good success with those seeds germinating. Planning to try and seed save more extensively this year.

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## Wildthings

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Barry, are those tomatoes an heirloom variety? Anyone here plant heirloom veggies?


They are from Bonnie plants. I get them at WalMart, HD, etc. They do very well for me here. The Lemon Boys are a first for me

Celebrity

Lemon Boy


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## Mike Hill

Trob115 said:


> Here are a few of our daylilies that are blooming.
> 
> View attachment 227236
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Wow, you are about a week or two ahead of us. I'm just noticing buds now.


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## 2feathers Creative Making

We have a mix. But I am switching all of it to heirloom as I find them. Either in some garden or some store. A lot of our local suppliers now carry heirlooms. I have corn, beans, tomatoes, and several winter squash varieties and am working on cabbage, turnips, beets, and the likes.


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## Mike Hill

Sprung said:


> Almost everything we're planting this year are heirlooms. Much of what we're planting this year we ordered from Baker Creek, but have bought from other sources as well. Provider bush beans are a favorite of ours. Last year we were given a tomato seedling of an heirloom that can be traced back to the family who brought their seeds with them from Bohemia.
> 
> We seed saved from some of the heirlooms we grew last year and had good success with those seeds germinating. Planning to try and seed save more extensively this year.


Reading the Baker Creek catalogue is my sadistic muse! Punishment for buying a house with nothing but shade and not being able to convince the female type that we need to move to the country.


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## Mike Hill

trc65 said:


> Not in the garden, but providing beauty and wonderful scent to the whole area.
> 
> Black locust blooms.
> 
> View attachment 227280
> 
> View attachment 227281


White wisteria do smell good! A few years ago, was looking to buy one and I fell into a bunch of webpages that harbored a hatred for them - saying they were the most invasive plants of all time, - Guess they hadn't met up with kudzu yet! I can't say I've seen a white one growing wild - only the light purple ones.


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## Sprung

Mike Hill said:


> Reading the Baker Creek catalogue is my sadistic muse! Punishment for buying a house with nothing but shade and not being able to convince the female type that we need to move to the country.



When we received the catalog we ordered, my wife and I went through it. We only ordered about 1/3 of what we wanted to - only so much room to plant stuff! We already have a list started of things we want to order and try for next year...


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## Trob115

Mike Hill said:


> Wow, you are about a week or two ahead of us. I'm just noticing buds now.


I would say we have about 50 others that haven't bloomed yet. Things are just getting going for our daylily garden. We are up to 75 different varieties, about 12 of which I have hybridized myself.


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## Sprung

@Mike Hill - As far as moving to the country goes, my wife and I would in an instant, if it were possible. But, we live in a parsonage. We're very content and happy living in the house we are currently calling home. We are also quite content living in a small city of about 3,000 people. Lots of rural and farms around us - plenty of farmers in the congregation I serve. But my wife and I also hope to one day have the chance to have our own little piece of land - even just a handful of acres - out in the country.


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## trc65

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Barry, are those tomatoes an heirloom variety? Anyone here plant heirloom veggies?


I do plant a few heirloom tomato varieties, some open pollinated varieties and a few hybrids. Can get some great flavor variations from heirloom varieties (and color/size variations), but many times the heirloom plants don't have the disease resistance or uniformity I like for processing.

There are exceptions of course, but I find a mix of types works for my use.

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## Eric Rorabaugh

I'll have to see which ones we planted that are heirloom. I'd be interested in trading seeds from some of y'all for varieties I've never tried.

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## Mike Hill

Trob115 said:


> I would say we have about 50 others that haven't bloomed yet. Things are just getting going for our daylily garden. We are up to 75 different varieties, about 12 of which I have hybridized myself.


Trey, that is major league kewl! I have probably about 20 varieties in the ground. Have a few in pots I don't have space for yet. Supposedly have a couple of people that hybridize daylilies around here, but they must do it somewhere else that at their house. I did recently meet and visit with a hellebore hybridizer here - that was cool and opened my eyes to the possibilities with them. Now, if you find you have any frilly and ruffledy daylilies you don't need!!!!!! I've saved a few seed pods over the year, but never have planted them. On a very limited basis, I have tried hosta hybridizing. Have one bunch of about 50, but to date, nothing looks like it will make me rich! I'll give them another year or two then give them to the Hosta Society.


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## trc65

One that I've started growing regularly is 'Old Brooks', great tasting slicer/processing tomato. Good size and very meaty. Also grow 'Brandywine' off and on, but didn't put any garden this year. I've never bothered saving seed, there are many producers of heirloom seed, it's cheap to buy and a packet of seed can last me 5-10 years depending on numbers I grow each year.


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## Trob115

Mike Hill said:


> Trey, that is major league kewl! I have probably about 20 varieties in the ground. Have a few in pots I don't have space for yet. Supposedly have a couple of people that hybridize daylilies around here, but they must do it somewhere else that at their house. I did recently meet and visit with a hellebore hybridizer here - that was cool and opened my eyes to the possibilities with them. Now, if you find you have any frilly and ruffledy daylilies you don't need!!!!!! I've saved a few seed pods over the year, but never have planted them. On a very limited basis, I have tried hosta hybridizing. Have one bunch of about 50, but to date, nothing looks like it will make me rich! I'll give them another year or two then give them to the Hosta Society.


We have several hostas, but I haven't ever tried hybridizing them. I have several daylily hybrids that are unique. I have 1 that changes color throughout the day. The only frustrating thing for me is waiting 3 years on a hybrid to bloom for the first time. It's a patience game I suppose. If I ever get a true blue one, I'll retire early .


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## Mike Hill

My favorite of all time tomato - at least until I find one I like better - and it is an heirloom by some standards - introduced in early 60's and does well in the humid hot mid south - Bradley. Indeterminate with lower acidity, but loads of flavor.


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## Mike Hill

Trob115 said:


> We have several hostas, but I haven't ever tried hybridizing them. I have several daylily hybrids that are unique. I have 1 that changes color throughout the day. The only frustrating thing for me is waiting 3 years on a hybrid to bloom for the first time. It's a patience game I suppose. If I ever get a true blue one, I'll retire early .


Or one with a lot of fragrance! Hostas - sorta like figs can sorta completely change coats in the 3 year wait. One at immaturity may be streaked, but in 3 years solid green. I have over 125 different hostas. - They grow well in shade! and I gots lots of shade!

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## trc65

I prefer acidic tomatoes, with the exception of 'SunSugar' an orange, high sugar, cherry variety. Can pick it when it's yellow for some acidity, or wait till it ripens to orange and get a very sweet snack. We keep a bowl full of them on the table for snacking "in season".

Otherwise, my crop is split between slicer types and 8 plants of 'Mariana' that I use for sauce, canning whole and drying.

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## Eric Rorabaugh

No hostas here. Dang deer won't let them grow without munching them down to nothing


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## Mike Hill

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> No hostas here. Dang deer won't let them grow without munching them down to nothing


Yeh, I don't have problems with deer, but do have a two-pronged attack. To a lesser extent those slime-ball slugs, no pun intended. But worse are the moles and voles. They can make a big 4x4x4 mature hosta with huge leaves dwindle down to a nub over the winter without you knowing it until spring. They were absolutely destroying my micros. I sunk some chicken wire into the ground around the micros to save them. Seems to have worked for the time being. I have a hosta care nursery area where I dig up the damaged ones and nurse them back to plantable size.

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## trc65

We've got lots of deer and hostas and so far I've been mostly successful with repellent applied right at emergence of the hostas. Once the leaves have expanded and hardened a bit, they don't seem to bother the hostas, they then go after my begonias an impatiens....

Luckily, don't really have a slug problem and few voles/moles.


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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

We're starting to get a few "Big Beef" and "Yellow Pear" Tomatoes. I'm getting about two a day and the cow pasture is getting about four a day from blossom end rot... Most of the later fruits don't have it but the early ones did... 

Alan


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## trc65

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> We're starting to get a few "Big Beef" and "Yellow Pear" Tomatoes. I'm getting about two a day and the cow pasture is getting about four a day from blossom end rot... Most of the later fruits don't have it but the early ones did...
> 
> Alan


My tomatoes are almost knee high now

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Mike Hill said:


> Yeh, I don't have problems with deer, but do have a two-pronged attack. To a lesser extent those slime-ball slugs, no pun intended. But worse are the moles and voles. They can make a big 4x4x4 mature hosta with huge leaves dwindle down to a nub over the winter without you knowing it until spring. They were absolutely destroying my micros. I sunk some chicken wire into the ground around the micros to save them. Seems to have worked for the time being. I have a hosta care nursery area where I dig up the damaged ones and nurse them back to plantable size.


Wish you told me when you were here. Our hostas totally took over the front flowerbeds. I threw some of them over in the edge of the woods and they kept growing. Mine must be the junk ones. Can hardly kill them.


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## trc65

Some hosta are weird that way. Last fall was doing some landscaping for a lady and she wanted six beautiful mature Empress Wu hostas removed and replaced with boxwoods and river rock.... Yeah, I know there is no accounting for a lack of taste. Those hostas were easily 6' diameter and 4.5' tall.

Anyway, we had to cut them out with spades and pry bars and just let the pieces of hosta sit on a trailer (in the sun) for two weeks. Finally had some free time and thought what the heck, planted 5 pieces of them. Every one is up and growing nicely. Will be a couple years until they reach full size, but I've got them spaced 7' apart and got a bunch of seed grown heuchera and astilbe to fill in space and add some color until they mature.

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## Mr. Peet

trc65 said:


> Some hosta are weird that way. Last fall was doing some landscaping for a lady and she wanted six beautiful mature Empress Wu hostas removed and replaced with boxwoods and river rock.... Yeah, I know there is no accounting for a lack of taste. Those hostas were easily 6' diameter and 4.5' tall.
> 
> Anyway, we had to cut them out with spades and pry bars and just let the pieces of hosta sit on a trailer (in the sun) for two weeks. Finally had some free time and thought what the heck, planted 5 pieces of them. Every one is up and growing nicely. Will be a couple years until they reach full size, but I've got them spaced 7' apart and got a bunch of seed grown heuchera and astilbe to fill in space and add some color until they mature.


Still think your deer get plenty to eat elsewhere. Can't have hosta here without fencing. They love marigolds and tomatoes. They even hammer squash here. They wiped out the neighbors rue-barb, that is new to me. They don't seem to bother horse-radish or onions....so far.


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## trc65

Mr. Peet said:


> Still think your deer get plenty to eat elsewhere. Can't have hosta here without fencing. They love marigolds and tomatoes. They even hammer squash here. They wiped out the neighbors rue-barb, that is new to me. They don't seem to bother horse-radish or onions....so far.


They do have lots to eat, and it's weird what they choose from year to year. They have never touched my tomatoes, marigolds or rhubarb, but they do love all brassicas. 

Garlic is an ingredient in many repellents yet last year they ate the tops off every garlic plant.

Probably getting a good deal of temporal preferance in what they try to destroy each year.

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## Wildthings

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> We're starting to get a few "Big Beef" and "Yellow Pear" Tomatoes. I'm getting about two a day and the cow pasture is getting about four a day from blossom end rot... Most of the later fruits don't have it but the early ones did...
> 
> Alan


I've had good luck combatting BER by dissolving a Tums in a gallon of water and spraying the entire plant with it. The leaves absorb the calcium pretty quickly

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## Mike Hill

2feathers Creative Making said:


> Wish you told me when you were here. Our hostas totally took over the front flowerbeds. I threw some of them over in the edge of the woods and they kept growing. Mine must be the junk ones. Can hardly kill them.


Must be something about being up on the plateau! Out of all I have, I have not had a single one "spread". Many "expand", but none have spread in the way ground cover does. Well, the species lancifolia might get close to spreading, but I dug them all up a few years ago and they have been in pots since.

Empress Wu is one of my favs - balletic yet stalwart, kinda bland yet salient. But I have a couple of others that have leaves as big or bigger than she does, but the plants are not as big overall. Some of my clumsy hybridizing attempts are with Empress Wu, but none has shown promise of hugeness yet. 

And I agree with Tim and Frank, their tenacity outlies their beguiling superficial delicateness. I've transplanted quite a number in the heat of August and survived - in fact some of them are the ones that were further transferred now reside in pots awaiting new homes. Some have endured living in pots where the squirrels dug out most of the soil so they could hide their walnuts and acorns for later consumption. But it absolutely boggles my mind that they can survive that, but not disturbance by moles!


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## Mike Hill

Trob115 said:


> We have several hostas, but I haven't ever tried hybridizing them. I have several daylily hybrids that are unique. I have 1 that changes color throughout the day. The only frustrating thing for me is waiting 3 years on a hybrid to bloom for the first time. It's a patience game I suppose. If I ever get a true blue one, I'll retire early .


I like the ones that look like they are wearing lacy lingerie! If you come up with some new ones - call!


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## Mike Hill

Mr. Peet said:


> . They wiped out the neighbors rue-barb, that is new to me. They don't seem to bother horse-radish or onions....so far.


Rhubarb is one thing I've really wanted to grow - but have given up. Too hot. Might get a couple of years - then it will just disappear. Eating a piece of rhubarb pie with ice cream seems so romantic!

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## trc65

Finally got almost caught up in the garden today. Three varieties of sweet corn, pole snap beans, pole Lima beans and Brussels sprouts all planted. Just have acorn squash and bush limas to plant..... before I get going with the three flats of pumpkins and gourds that will be planted in about two weeks.

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## trc65

Some pretty flowers.

Bearded iris









Memorial Day must be coming up, our peony are always in full bloom then. Here is the first bloom.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Mike Hill said:


> Rhubarb is one thing I've really wanted to grow - but have given up. Too hot. Might get a couple of years - then it will just disappear. Eating a piece of rhubarb pie with ice cream seems so romantic!


May just be too shady. My dad's rhubarb is 5 or more years old and going strong on the south side of his house. Probably only about 6 degree difference between his place and yours.


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## Mike Hill

2feathers Creative Making said:


> May just be too shady. My dad's rhubarb is 5 or more years old and going strong on the south side of his house. Probably only about 6 degree difference between his place and yours.


Could be, but have had it in my sunniest area. First two i got 5 years out of - a few puny stalks. The next two times I only got 2 years - not enough time to get any stalks.

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## trc65

Something a little different growing on the north side of the house.

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## trc65

Here's a little more color out our back door. Wine and roses weigela next to the little Japanese maple.

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## Mike Hill

trc65 said:


> Something a little different growing on the north side of the house.
> 
> View attachment 227346
> 
> View attachment 227347


Ohhh Ole Jack - one of my favs! About 10 years ago, I liked them so much that my idea was to start collecting different Arisaema species. I already had a good start on Arisaema triphyllum so the next one I found easily was Green Dragon (Arisaema Dracontium) - I think I thought I was getting another species of Chinese Jack in the Pulpit. Boy that was a mistake. I'm still pulling plants from all over the yard from just that one plant. And you can't just pull them one time and expect them to just go away - there is a corm that is resistant to pulling and if you dig you seldom can get all the itty bitty baby corms. It takes years to get rid of them. Even Round-up is not all that effective. It's a bit of a mystery to me why they spread so easily - yes, the corms divide, but there are no runners or spreading rhizomes - the seeds are too big to be wind borne, they are not explosively expelled, and they have no barbs to hook onto fur. I have not seen any birds or animals eating them. However, they look like the eggs of ants. My theory is that ants take them back to their colonies in their raiding foraging forays think they are bringing food back to the colony. Could be that a vole, mouse, or chipmunk collects them, but they tend to put several in the same stash and you have a number of plants emerging from the same place. Don't have this. The corms (not sure if they are technically corms but that is what I will call them - they sorta look like naked gladiolus or caladium corms) do divide, but they don't spread underground. Sorta like wild onions, you have to dig and dig big and cannot put them in the compost pile, if you leave one piece - the plant is not gone. A funny thing that I have noted over the years is that not many women like Jack in the Pulpit - mainly men mention it. You mention it to a woman its like - ehh. You mention it to a man - that's cool, I like Jack in the Pulpit! I still want to collect the others - some are quite stately, but need to get rid of this nuisance before I do. 
​

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## trc65

I've not pursued getting any other than the native Arisaema, it was two plants that I marked in the timber while growing, then went back in the fall and dug until I found the corms. Did the same with may apples and trillium. 

Other than occasionally harvesting a few seeds for others, I just let them fall on the ground and self propagate. There are probably 15 or so of them now. My only guess on the spread you've seen was birds eating them - especially with the bright red color of the berries, but foraging ants and rodents are just as likely.

Good to know about the Green Dragon spreading, didn't think that any of the Arisaema could or would spread like that.


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## Sprung

We've been extra busy, but today finally yielded an opportunity to do some garden work. Peppers and tomatoes were transplanted, as well as a few other things. Did a few 4' rows of Painted Mountain corn - I realize that with just that little bit that pollination may not go so well, so I am planning to try hand pollinating them when the time comes. Cucumber and eggplant seeds went in the ground, as well as a few squash seeds (a couple small varieties that we can grow on our trellis). Beans of various kind went in the ground as well.

This is all in addition to a week ago when I helped put a variety of seed in the ground in the other garden - the family who is letting us grow in their garden space. He'd already done sweet corn, green beans, and peas by the time I got out to help. The two of us together got more beans, lettuces, carrots, spinach, radishes in. (And ran the tiller for a while before that.) Tomorrow I'm headed out and squash and watermelon seeds are going in the ground.

And tonight we got our first "harvest." Had to thin out the broccoli shoots and remember reading that the leaves are edible too, so we all tried some and, well, the leaves do taste like broccoli. So we brought in what I was pulling out and we'll probably stir fry it with some other veggies tomorrow. His garden this year is more than double the size of any of his previous gardens. But he, his various family members, and I all have freezers that will hopefully end up full by winter, as well as shelves filled with jars of canned food. Going to be busy this summer and fall.

Everything that we had planted previously is looking good. The garlic, which didn't get planted until spring, seems to be taking off well. Onions are growing, but still look like blades of grass. Carrots are starting to pop up. Broccolis are doing well, lettuces of various kinds as well. Peas are taking off.

Only thing I'm currently disappointed in is the herbs - nothing of what I planted has really taken off. Basil, mint, lemon balm, stevia, parsley, oregano, and a couple other ones I can't remember off the top of my head. A few things have given one or two sprouts, but not anything compared to the number of seeds that I planted. Planted these in pots on the patio to keep them contained. If nothing has sprouted in a week or so, I might give up and buy some seedlings. I haven't bought any seedlings this year, and was hoping not to.

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## William Tanner

All of the roses are doing well. The hummingbirds are visiting the honeysuckle.

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## Mr. Peet

Wife has been growing things on the enclosed porch to limit birds and chipmunks. Last night was the official planting in the garden we have at the church. She has some stuff she planted a week or more ago ground direct that still needs to pop. We had 3 inches of rain last week and 80 degree plus days so good plant weather. Last night dropped in the 30's, but on the high end so hope we are good.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Sprung said:


> Only thing I'm currently disappointed in is the herbs - nothing of what I planted has really taken off. Basil, mint, lemon balm, stevia, parsley, oregano, and a couple other ones I can't remember off the top of my head. A few things have given one or two sprouts, but not anything compared to the number of seeds that I planted. Planted these in pots on the patio to keep them contained. If nothing has sprouted in a week or so, I might give up and buy some seedlings. I haven't bought any seedlings this year, and was hoping not to.


I have never had as much success starting mints and herbs. I have always started my mints from donated plants. I have started a few but mostly outside in the ground. Seems to work best for me. Maybe because I forget to water... hmmm. Or because.... well just because. Most mints tolerate a good volume of water. 
I was considering a stevia planting myself. The wife managed to get thyme to start. The sage overwinter for us here in TN.

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## trc65

The few herbs I've grown are started on heat pads keeping the soil at 70°. Thyme, sage, oregano and parsley usually germinate at a fairly high percentage for me. Rosemary will consistently germinate at 1% or lower unless you have primed seed, then around 75%.

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## trc65

Spent the last two days mowing/bagging grass to start mulching the garden. Here's all the early planted stuff mulched and happy.





One of my ornamental beds where I planted some perennial dianthus last year to provide color before the butterfly weed starts blooming.

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## Nubsnstubs

trc65 said:


> Spent the last two days mowing/bagging grass to start mulching the garden. Here's all the early planted stuff mulched and happy.
> 
> View attachment 227673
> 
> One of my ornamental beds where I planted some perennial dianthus last year to provide color before the butterfly weed starts blooming.
> 
> View attachment 227674


I remember that scene off your property. Soy Beans and corn was it?.... . What happened to that huge Pumpkin?? .......... Jerry (in Tucson)

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## trc65

Yep, it was corn to the south (direction of the picture) and beans on the north. Those fields are rotated this year, so it is beans to the south and corn in the north.

The big pumpkin sat at the end of the walkway to the deck for about a month until it started to melt, then dumped it at the edge of the woods. The big ones are nice to have around, but they don't last as long as the traditional ribbed orange pumpkins.

Edit, went looking and found these pictures.

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## Trob115

trc65 said:


> Spent the last two days mowing/bagging grass to start mulching the garden. Here's all the early planted stuff mulched and happy.
> 
> View attachment 227673
> 
> One of my ornamental beds where I planted some perennial dianthus last year to provide color before the butterfly weed starts blooming.
> 
> View attachment 227674


Nice looking flowers and garden! What do you use to collect your grass clippings? All I have is my zero turn mower and it's finely shredded when it's spit out. So fine that you would struggle to even take a small pile up.


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## trc65

I've got a Husqvarna deck mower with a cheap bagger attachment. I used to have a cub cadet deck mower and I windrowed everything then raked by hand. I also let the grass grow for a couple/three weeks so I've got some good length. 

They do make baggers for some models of zero turn mowers, but they are mucho denero. The Power flow unit for the nephews commercial JD zero turn was $3000, but that was 10 years ago. We've already taken the bagger off the Z930 or I'd borrow it from him. 

Maybe an after market third party bagger could be adapted to your mower? What zero turn do you have? 

Maybe a lawn sweeper? Don't know how well they would work on fine clippings though.


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## trc65

@Nubsnstubs

Jerry, here area couple pics of a similar view about the time you visited last summer. Slightly different angle, but a southerly view.

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## Mr. Peet

Trob115 said:


> Nice looking flowers and garden! What do you use to collect your grass clippings? All I have is my zero turn mower and it's finely shredded when it's spit out. So fine that you would struggle to even take a small pile up.


Yard sweepers work well, and for a fraction the cost. For $5-600 you can get a quality sweeper. An aftermarket hitch for a zero turn runs $25-30. Waiting an extra cycle or 2 between mowings adds length. The trick is to get the grass before the seed heads form. Loading your garden with grass seed and weed seed could make much more work. Mulching with leaves in the fall works well, but then you need to lime to offset the acidity. Using bark or wood chip mulch sucks up a lot of nitrogen. They have pros and cons.

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## Trob115

Mr. Peet said:


> Yard sweepers work well, and for a fraction the cost. For $5-600 you can get a quality sweeper. An aftermarket hitch for a zero turn runs $25-30. Waiting an extra cycle or 2 between mowings adds length. The trick is to get the grass before the seed heads form. Loading your garden with grass seed and weed seed could make much more work. Mulching with leaves in the fall works well, but then you need to lime to offset the acidity. Using bark or wood chip mulch sucks up a lot of nitrogen. They have pros and cons.


Yep I definitely don't like using wood chips for mulch, but I have found that in my flower beds it does well for weed control. In my garden. I have toyed with the idea of using grass clippings, but I'm not setup to collect them right now. My main use for collecting clippings would be to feed my compost pile nitrogen.
I have an exmark lazer z mower and have seen a couple aftermarket bagging systems for about $500. I figure if I go the sweeper route, I'll just weld a standard receiver on my mower.

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## Mike Hill

Don't got sun for them veggie things - have to be content with my shady beauties.

First of my frilly girls just emerged!



Astilbe finally blooming - it got hit hard by moles last year. 





Always have lots of hydrangeas 









Hostas and ferns are my FRIENDS!!!









From Big Princess WU





To my little darlings - the mini's with a few weeds mixed in. These are not the smallest - micros - ,nother part of the bed.

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## Mike Hill

New adventure - Japanese Chrysanthemums - hopefully you can call me for a corsage iff'n you can get a date for the Prom - I don't have hope for some of you! - 29 varieties in their temp. pots.





First fruit - a breba from an unknown purple variety - fyi - Picked it smf ate it after picture - insipid. Usually very good tasting main crop.





Pears that I won't get - squirrel food usually.





Was hoping for a much larger crop of Jap. Persimmons - but they seem to be self thinning. These are all over - wonder if they didn't get pollenated. 





Future smell purdies!





Bear's Breeches (acanthus) throwing up a stalk!





Butterfly Weed





And first caladium - damaged leaf and all. This one came up unusually - flower stalk same time as the leaf.

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## Mike Hill

Now for the $64,000 question! Does anyone know how to train these to just eat weeds? Let's team up and we can be gazillionaires! Luckily my cat likes to munch on the tender ones! This one appears to be going to finish off the sweet peas they started on for the last few days along with 4 tomato plants and 2 pepper plants. He'll leave the horseradish alone - at least to date he has.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Snares help a lot...


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## trc65

@Mike Hill 

What a great variety of plants you have! I'm jealous of your hosta and fern collections. Everytime I see a different hosta I want it. Problem is I have plenty of shade space, but no time to convert from lawn into ornamental beds.

Keep us updated on your Japanese chrysanthemums, I've not done much with mum's other than pick up a few pots of them every September when everything else has faded for the year.


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## Mike Hill

trc65 said:


> @Mike Hill
> 
> What a great variety of plants you have! I'm jealous of your hosta and fern collections. Everytime I see a different hosta I want it. Problem is I have plenty of shade space, but no time to convert from lawn into ornamental beds.
> 
> Keep us updated on your Japanese chrysanthemums, I've not done much with mum's other than pick up a few pots of them every September when everything else has faded for the year.


Heck - I guess it is all about Point of View - I'm jealous of all your veggies! When life has given you shade - you make the best of it. Probably about 10 varieties of fern and over 100 varieties of hosta - I lost count long time ago. And I haven't even looked at a hosta catalogue in 5 years. I probably have another 50 pots of hostas to plant out. 

Yeh, wanted to do the Jap Mums for a few years and was gonna pull the trigger the last two, but the suppliers had all been sold out. So joined a Chrysanthemum Society so I could get in on their group order. Been boning up on the staking, disbudding, fertilizing schedule, etc.... Looking forward to seeing what becomes of them. The last couple of years, been disappointed with the dahlias. An extra gift the mum people sent were rooted cuttings of 3 yellow and 3 red "pot" mums - I really have no place for them - do you want them? Also have some saved dahlia tubers I could send also.


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## trc65

Thanks for the offer Mike! 

Much as I've never been one to turn down plants, I have to turn down your offer. I've got every pot filled and no space left in the ground. Having a heck of a time trying to get everything done this year, and any more would about kill me.


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## Mike Hill

trc65 said:


> . Having a heck of a time trying to get everything done this year, and any more would about kill me.


Ain't that the truth - Ain't that the truth! With going to Texas twice in prime garden prep time, and a couple of things my wife insisted I do, AND the unprecendented amount of weeds this year (no idea why even in mulched areas - well I do have an idea, but cannot express it or I would be looked at with an evil eye) I was pretty much 3 weeks behind and working it off.

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## Trob115

Mike Hill said:


> Now for the $64,000 question! Does anyone know how to train these to just eat weeds? Let's team up and we can be gazillionaires! Luckily my cat likes to munch on the tender ones! This one appears to be going to finish off the sweet peas they started on for the last few days along with 4 tomato plants and 2 pepper plants. He'll leave the horseradish alone - at least to date he has.
> 
> View attachment 227706


Mike these make pretty good training devices for those rabbits.

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## sprucegum

Peas are coming along nicely. They have more than doubled in the past week. I would expect to see a few blossoms in another week. It's always a goal to have peas and baby potatoes for the 4 the of July. Strawberry shortcake for dessert goes well.

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## Mike Hill

Saw Stella (the cat) stalking it Sunday. Maybe she put the fear in him - haven't seen him since. Her services are cheaper - just a can of tuna!

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## Mike Hill

sprucegum said:


> Peas are coming along nicely. They have more than doubled in the past week. I would expect to see a few blossoms in another week. It's always a goal to have peas and baby potatoes for the 4 the of July. Strawberry shortcake for dessert goes well.View attachment 227724


Awesome garden there Dave!!!! I'm jealous of the peas - I struggle with them. Plant em when I can and it gets too hot for them to bear very good. Edible pods are better but now don't have enough space to grow enough for a mess!

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## sprucegum

Mike Hill said:


> Awesome garden there Dave!!!! I'm jealous of the peas - I struggle with them. Plant em when I can and it gets too hot for them to bear very good. Edible pods are better but now don't have enough space to grow enough for a mess!


They definitely don't like hot weather. Around here mid April is about the rite time to plant them, I till early to help the soil warm a little faster. These are Alderman peas and can grow to over 6' if conditions are right. I like them because they yield pretty good and are easy to pick, they will start blossoming when they get a couple feet high and keep blossoming as they grow to full height. Eventually the weather gets too hot and they die. I leave some to dry on the vine for next years seed and if we have enough a little whole pea soup.

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## Mike Hill

Ok, my wussified frilly side is showing. It's been a year since I've seen 'em - and they did not disappoint. Sorta feel like I have my own can-can girls! I don't eat'em or can'em but I shore do like look'n at 'em!

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## trc65

Great looking ruffels!!


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## Mike Hill

These are the Jap. mums all staked out. Sure hope this is a fun experiment! Taller ones on the left - shorter on the right.

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## trc65

Cherry pudding and cherry pit syrup on the menu for the end of the week.

Neighbors called tonight and once again had more cherries than they wanted. A little under a gallon, but enough to make some pudding and freeze some for later.

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## Sprung

Wow! Cherries already! Won't be until July when we get some around here. Will be picking a bunch again when the time comes.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Cherry season is just starting here in TN on the plateau. My workmate brought a bit of sour cherry jam to work from this year's harvest

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## Sprung

We spent the last week camping and came home to plenty to harvest out of the garden.

Bok Choy, Red Leaf Lettuce, Chijimisai, Mizuna, Arugula, and White Icicle Radishes. None of these are things we've grown before. And some of these are things we've never eaten before, but grew to try them.

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## Sprung

@Mike Hill and @trc65 - don't ask me to identify the variety - every variety of hostas are "hostas" to me - but saw these while we were at Bond Falls in the western part of MI's UP. All over there. Perhaps planted around the boardwalk for erosion control, as something that would do well in shade? These had some pretty big leaves on them, certainly bigger than they look in the pic.

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## JerseyHighlander

Went up to check the veggie garden this morning and all was looking good. Been getting the slugs under control and most of what was planted is advancing well. Went up a couple hours later to water a few things with some added fish emulsion/seaweed fertilizer and found two of my broccoli eaten all to hell. Think I've got a ground hog coming from somewhere. Came down to the house, got what I had on hand and surrounded that area with a low electric fence. Now I'm wondering if it's going to go after the Taters in the other area... Another day on Pestilence Farms. 

Maybe it's time to start putting chicken backs and stuff out for the fox and coyote.

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## trc65

@Sprung what a great harvest of greens (and radishes)! 

I have no clue about the hostas, I can't even remember the names of most that I have (only about a dozen varieties). If anyone here would know, Mike would.

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## djg

Mike Hill said:


> Now for the $64,000 question! Does anyone know how to train these to just eat weeds? Let's team up and we can be gazillionaires! Luckily my cat likes to munch on the tender ones! This one appears to be going to finish off the sweet peas they started on for the last few days along with 4 tomato plants and 2 pepper plants. He'll leave the horseradish alone - at least to date he has.


Rabbits get to all my plants. Strawberries, peas, squash, lettuce and cucumbers. I gave use metal chicken wire around everything. They chewed through the more manageable plastic chicken wire. I've read a pepper spray made from cheap hot sauce works, but I haven't tried it yet.

You have Horseradish? There was a local Horseradish field last winter that the county cut a bike path through along the edge of the field. They put in conctrete and sowed grass along the sides. Some Horseradish plants cropped up in the grass, and I knew they would be Round-Uped in the Spring, so I dug up a few and planted them in my raised bed. There're over a foot high now. When do you harvest them? And replant? Ever eat the greens?


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## djg

My garden is terrible again this year. Peas didn't germinate. May replant in August and try for a Fall crop. The beans didn't germinate either. I planted a 16' row of climbers this year and only one came up. I'm going to replant today and hopefully get one picking before they're done.

Speaking of wood chips. I put them on my 16' of row of tame blackberries and they seem to do fine. Maybe I should add some wood ashes, though?


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## Trob115

@Mike Hill thought about you when this flower opened. This is one of my hybrids and it is the first time it has ever bloomed. A beautiful daylily in its own right, but has been doing something crazy. 

Now for the really interesting point... this is the same flower bloom , BUT it stayed open for 2 days before falling off!
First picture is Monday, and the second picture Tuesday afternoon( still the same bloom!)

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## trc65

Not in the garden, but pretty in spite of what it is.

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## Mike Hill

If it wasn't a thistle, you could call it an artichoke or a cardoon!


Trob115 said:


> @Mike Hill thought about you when this flower opened. This is one of my hybrids and it is the first time it has ever bloomed. A beautiful daylily in its own right, but has been doing something crazy.
> 
> Now for the really interesting point... this is the same flower bloom , BUT it stayed open for 2 days before falling off!
> First picture is Monday, and the second picture Tuesday afternoon( still the same bloom!)
> 
> View attachment 228105
> 
> View attachment 228106


Heck, I like the coloration and the (to me) unusual form! And add 2 days - wowzer!


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## Mike Hill

djg said:


> You have Horseradish? There was a local Horseradish field last winter that the county cut a bike path through along the edge of the field. They put in conctrete and sowed grass along the sides. Some Horseradish plants cropped up in the grass, and I knew they would be Round-Uped in the Spring, so I dug up a few and planted them in my raised bed. There're over a foot high now. When do you harvest them? And replant? Ever eat the greens?


I've got 3 types. Two "normal" I got from different places and a variegated leaf variety I bought. The catalogue said it would be a few years until the variegation to the leaves comes out - guess it hasn't been a few years yet as they are still all green. I usually don't harvest until well past first frost. I usually dig in from the side and take out what I want and leave the rest. Some people dig all the big roots up and leave all the little ones in the ground till next year. Others dig the whole thing up and save some for replanting. No "right" way.

Funny you ask about the leaves. I've eaten them, "standing there in the dirt", but never a mess of em. All I have is 3 established clumps (with 3 young'uns growing) - and afraid if I take enough leaves to make up a mess, it would stunt the roots. They taste rather peppery - not unlike arugula or kale. On my oldest bunch - when I was given the start - did not have a bed ready, so I just put it in a big pot (probably 20 gal) that previously held a blueberry bush that just died. The horseradish had now been in the pot for 15 years or more and does well - and easy to harvest. Now, the roots will grow down through the drainage holes and root into the soil if you have it not sitting on the concrete walk or deck. Then when you move the pot, there are little roots left in the ground that grow into another clump. That's how 2 of the 3 younger clumps I have started.

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## sprucegum

I always like how the taters look after I hill them up good

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## Mike Hill

Sprung said:


> @Mike Hill and @trc65 - don't ask me to identify the variety - every variety of hostas are "hostas" to me - but saw these while we were at Bond Falls in the western part of MI's UP. All over there. Perhaps planted around the boardwalk for erosion control, as something that would do well in shade? These had some pretty big leaves on them, certainly bigger than they look in the pic.
> 
> View attachment 228100


Cool, but not like any hosta I have ever seen. Skunk cabbage? Y'all got stuff up there in the norther hinte......er.......winter wonderland, that we don't got. Two other bigger leafed plants with the type of form might be Petasites and Eurybia (sorta).


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## Mike Hill

sprucegum said:


> I always like how the taters look after I hill them up good View attachment 228109


Way cool.


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## Mike Hill

2feathers Creative Making said:


> Cherry season is just starting here in TN on the plateau. My workmate brought a bit of sour cherry jam to work from this year's harvest


Sour Cherry Jam be good!

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## Mike Hill

Sprung said:


> We spent the last week camping and came home to plenty to harvest out of the garden.
> 
> Bok Choy, Red Leaf Lettuce, Chijimisai, Mizuna, Arugula, and White Icicle Radishes. None of these are things we've grown before. And some of these are things we've never eaten before, but grew to try them.
> 
> View attachment 228096
> 
> View attachment 228097
> 
> View attachment 228098
> 
> View attachment 228099


Looks like someone browsed the Baker Creek catalogue over the winter! I'm real curious as to what you think about the Mizuna. I've tried, but have always had it eaten down by animules before I could try it. Almost got big enough to try one year, but the next morning - poof! - gone. Same with their pink celery. What arugula did you try? I like the white radishes pickled. Have you tried their snake bean? Their yardlong beans are quite good. I don't have any this year, they were sold out when I went to buy them. The only room I have for them is to grow up the clothes lines poles. So I have sweet peas there this year that keeps getting nibbled on. I wish I had the sun and the room to try all their okra!


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## trc65

Never tried cherry jam, may have to make a batch.


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## Mike Hill

trc65 said:


> Not in the garden, but pretty in spite of what it is.
> 
> View attachment 228108


If it wasn't a thistle, you could call it an artichoke or a cardoon!

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## Mike Hill

trc65 said:


> Not in the garden, but pretty in spite of what it is.
> 
> View attachment 228108


20 years ago, the city (and some counties) deicided they'd save money by not mowing the roadsides or limiting the amount of roadsides they mowed. That caused an invasive takeover of thistle, not only on the roadsides but also fields and lawns. Then being the reactionary beings they are, the city (and some counties) decided they should spray to control the thistle invasion. They pretty much killed a lot of the roadside thistle where they sprayed, but some of the landowners did not, and now the city (and some counties) have to do it every year. Good side? With all the spraying - the amount of greenery has been drastically reduced in some areas, so they don't have to mow as much. Now, they just spray the individual thistle plants. Saved a lot of money - NOT!


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## Sprung

Mike Hill said:


> Looks like someone browsed the Baker Creek catalogue over the winter! I'm real curious as to what you think about the Mizuna. I've tried, but have always had it eaten down by animules before I could try it. Almost got big enough to try one year, but the next morning - poof! - gone. Same with their pink celery. What arugula did you try? I like the white radishes pickled. Have you tried their snake bean? Their yardlong beans are quite good. I don't have any this year, they were sold out when I went to buy them. The only room I have for them is to grow up the clothes lines poles. So I have sweet peas there this year that keeps getting nibbled on. I wish I had the sun and the room to try all their okra!



Ha! Yup - most of the seed we bought this year was from Baker Creek. Some other seed was given to us or we already had on hand. Haven't tried the Mizuna yet - it was a free seed packet that was included, so we figured we'd try it. My wife put some on her wrap at lunch today and said it was a bit earthy tasting for her, but I'll still try it and we'll see how it does cooked. The arugula and radishes were from seed that was given to us that had been seed saved by someone else, so no idea on where they originated from. Radishes aren't something we've really eaten, but thought we'd try to see if we liked them. Haven't tried their snake bean or yardlong beans, but do have Dragon Tongue, Cherokee Trail of Tear, and Succotash beans from them planted. (As well as Provider, that we obtained elsewhere - we really like the Provider beans.)

Mike, it sounds like you need to get to cutting down some of them shade trees to get you a little sun. Or find a community garden to rent a plot in. (Though a few of the people I know who have rented community garden plots have had pest problems - of the two legged kind picking and stealing stuff from other people's plots.)


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## Mike Hill

Sprung said:


> Mike, it sounds like you need to get to cutting down some of them shade trees to get you a little sun. Or find a community garden to rent a plot in. (Though a few of the people I know who have rented community garden plots have had pest problems - of the two legged kind picking and stealing stuff from other people's plots.)


My wife had a 70 yo pine tree cut down 5 years ago. I was not in favor, but my vote got vetoed! Ever since, I've had a little more sun to plant in, but the electric bill has been much more in the hot months - it was on the west side of the house and shaded the house well. Have on very old hackberry that is dying and when I take it down, I might have 2 square feet more of sun. It's on the north fence. 

There was a community garden like 4 or 5 blocks away. I did have one box in it - for grins. But then the area got gentrified and the newbie hipsters decided they did not want a community garden but a (very short) walking trail - sorta dog park, and successfully lobbied someone in guvment to get it banned. More or less came in overnight and dozed it without warning. I had a number of fig trees for study and several tools and a wheelbarrow- gone. Kinda ticked me off. Then an antebellum home and 65 acres, a couple of blocks away, was (sorta) donated to the city - actually in a Land Trust. It had been used as a hospital during the Battle of Nashville. The original plan was to allow neighbors and master gardeners to grow things to be donated away. As well as a place I could put a few beehives. Well, I guess that wasn't sexy enough - so they turned the garden area over to a chef who used it to grow veggies for his restaurant. He was out there himself hoeing and stuff and welcomed volunteers of which I was one, but that did not last long as a famous old restaurant in a famous historic hotel decided they wanted it to grow heirlooms for their entirely too expensive restaurant - and well we lost out again. Then there was talk of growing a fruit demonstration garden. I started with some plans - some mighty fine plans and ideas, I must say - part food producing, part demonstration and part experimental with fruit and ways to grow them that you don't see often, especially around here. But then again some sexy brewery decided it would be good to grow hops - so alcohol won out - sexier I guess. First there were going to be bees and I and a couple of friends were gonna tend them and bottle the honey for sale at the house. Then they decided against bees as they did not want anyone stung. Then a couple of years later, I guess it was ok for a distillery to raise a few hives of bees for use in their product. Guess those bees wouldn't sting anyone. The people running this property were rather young women and "men" and I guess they did not like my politics. So many mornings and evenings as I drive by - I salute them with pride and one digit. This city and the people in charge are rather obtuse - and if you don't remember your geometry - an obtuse angle is not all that sharp.


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## Sprung

Mike Hill said:


> My wife had a 70 yo pine tree cut down 5 years ago. I was not in favor, but my vote got vetoed! Ever since, I've had a little more sun to plant in, but the electric bill has been much more in the hot months - it was on the west side of the house and shaded the house well. Have on very old hackberry that is dying and when I take it down, I might have 2 square feet more of sun. It's on the north fence.
> 
> There was a community garden like 4 or 5 blocks away. I did have one box in it - for grins. But then the area got gentrified and the newbie hipsters decided they did not want a community garden but a (very short) walking trail - sorta dog park, and successfully lobbied someone in guvment to get it banned. More or less came in overnight and dozed it without warning. I had a number of fig trees for study and several tools and a wheelbarrow- gone. Kinda ticked me off. Then an antebellum home and 65 acres, a couple of blocks away, was (sorta) donated to the city - actually in a Land Trust. It had been used as a hospital during the Battle of Nashville. The original plan was to allow neighbors and master gardeners to grow things to be donated away. As well as a place I could put a few beehives. Well, I guess that wasn't sexy enough - so they turned the garden area over to a chef who used it to grow veggies for his restaurant. He was out there himself hoeing and stuff and welcomed volunteers of which I was one, but that did not last long as a famous old restaurant in a famous historic hotel decided they wanted it to grow heirlooms for their entirely too expensive restaurant - and well we lost out again. Then there was talk of growing a fruit demonstration garden. I started with some plans - some mighty fine plans and ideas, I must say - part food producing, part demonstration and part experimental with fruit and ways to grow them that you don't see often, especially around here. But then again some sexy brewery decided it would be good to grow hops - so alcohol won out - sexier I guess. First there were going to be bees and I and a couple of friends were gonna tend them and bottle the honey for sale at the house. Then they decided against bees as they did not want anyone stung. Then a couple of years later, I guess it was ok for a distillery to raise a few hives of bees for use in their product. Guess those bees wouldn't sting anyone. The people running this property were rather young women and "men" and I guess they did not like my politics. So many mornings and evenings as I drive by - I salute them with pride and one digit. This city is the people in charge are rather obtuse - and if you don't remember your geometry - an obtuse angle is not all that sharp.



Mike, I'm going to change my previous statement. Sounds like you need to move out of the big city!

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## trc65

djg said:


> Rabbits get to all my plants. Strawberries, peas, squash, lettuce and cucumbers. I gave use metal chicken wire around everything. They chewed through the more manageable plastic chicken wire. I've read a pepper spray made from cheap hot sauce works, but I haven't tried it yet.
> 
> You have Horseradish? There was a local Horseradish field last winter that the county cut a bike path through along the edge of the field. They put in conctrete and sowed grass along the sides. Some Horseradish plants cropped up in the grass, and I knew they would be Round-Uped in the Spring, so I dug up a few and planted them in my raised bed. There're over a foot high now. When do you harvest them? And replant? Ever eat the greens?


I've not grown horseradish in my garden, but was involved peripheraly with commercial production while in grad school in WI. Fall harvest as Mike said. Commercially they would dig the whole root, use the main (large root) for processing and use the smaller, finger sized roots for replanting. If you just dig the main root and leave the smaller broken off sections in the ground you will have a lifetime supply of horseradish. Good thing you have it in a raised bed, that will help contain the spread. 


djg said:


> My garden is terrible again this year. Peas didn't germinate. May replant in August and try for a Fall crop. The beans didn't germinate either. I planted a 16' row of climbers this year and only one came up. I'm going to replant today and hopefully get one picking before they're done.
> 
> Speaking of wood chips. I put them on my 16' of row of tame blackberries and they seem to do fine. Maybe I should add some wood ashes, though?


I have had the same issue with my green beans this year. I'm on the third time replanting (filling in spaces) trying to get a decent stand. I think my problem was seedling/root disease (rhizoctonia). I've replanted at only about 1/2" deep to get quick emergence. I've also used captan and chlorothalonil in furrow to see if that helps. Neither is labeled for this treatment, but they are the only two fungicides I have on hand. With the much warmer weather we are now getting, try replanting shallowly, and give them a light watering after planting. With moisture and heat they should emerge much quicker and before seed/seedling diseases can get them. 


sprucegum said:


> I always like how the taters look after I hill them up good View attachment 228109



Those are great looking hills! Do you have a mechanical hiller, or did you do that by hand?

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## sprucegum

trc65 said:


> I've not grown horseradish in my garden, but was involved peripheraly with commercial production while in grad school in WI. Fall harvest as Mike said. Commercially they would dig the whole root, use the main (large root) for processing and use the smaller, finger sized roots for replanting. If you just dig the main root and leave the smaller broken off sections in the ground you will have a lifetime supply of horseradish. Good thing you have it in a raised bed, that will help contain the spread.
> 
> I have had the same issue with my green beans this year. I'm on the third time replanting (filling in spaces) trying to get a decent stand. I think my problem was seedling/root disease (rhizoctonia). I've replanted at only about 1/2" deep to get quick emergence. I've also used captan and chlorothalonil in furrow to see if that helps. Neither is labeled for this treatment, but they are the only two fungicides I have on hand. With the much warmer weather we are now getting, try replanting shallowly, and give them a light watering after planting. With moisture and heat they should emerge much quicker and before seed/seedling diseases can get them.
> 
> 
> Those are great looking hills! Do you have a mechanical hiller, or did you do that by hand?





trc65 said:


> I've not grown horseradish in my garden, but was involved peripheraly with commercial production while in grad school in WI. Fall harvest as Mike said. Commercially they would dig the whole root, use the main (large root) for processing and use the smaller, finger sized roots for replanting. If you just dig the main root and leave the smaller broken off sections in the ground you will have a lifetime supply of horseradish. Good thing you have it in a raised bed, that will help contain the spread.
> 
> I have had the same issue with my green beans this year. I'm on the third time replanting (filling in spaces) trying to get a decent stand. I think my problem was seedling/root disease (rhizoctonia). I've replanted at only about 1/2" deep to get quick emergence. I've also used captan and chlorothalonil in furrow to see if that helps. Neither is labeled for this treatment, but they are the only two fungicides I have on hand. With the much warmer weather we are now getting, try replanting shallowly, and give them a light watering after planting. With moisture and heat they should emerge much quicker and before seed/seedling diseases can get them.
> 
> 
> Those are great looking hills! Do you have a mechanical hiller, or did you do that by hand?


I till between the rows with my ancient troybilt horse tiller to loosen up the soil, then grab a hoe. I have the hilling attachment for the tiller but would need more and wider rows to make it practical. I like to work in the garden for an hour or so early each morning. Not sure the neighbors like the old tiller at 5:30

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## sprucegum

@Mike Hill I have always thought that community gardens were a wonderful idea with lots of potential problems. The local hospital has extra land that's been used for gardens for many years. About a quarter of the plots are pretty well tended, the remainder are pest infested weed patches. It must be difficult to keep weeds and harmful insects out under those conditions.


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## Mike Hill

Sprung said:


> Mike, I'm going to change my previous statement. Sounds like you need to move out of the big city!


I'm glad you understand Lil Mikey! Now just convince the wife for me! Can you say roadblock?


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## Mike Hill

sprucegum said:


> @Mike Hill I have always thought that community gardens were a wonderful idea with lots of potential problems. The local hospital has extra land that's been used for gardens for many years. About a quarter of the plots are pretty well tended, the remainder are pest infested weed patches. It must be difficult to keep weeds and harmful insects out under those conditions.


This one was a little better than that, but there were definitely some that did not understand what plant care was or maybe did not like to sweat a little! Being there was actually more than "grins". The guy who ran it was receptive with me planting some figs at various places for a sort of field trial. I was on a mission to find out what was the best fig for Nashville and it's climate. I needed something rather close so I could care for and record. But they bit the dust under the dozer blade. Then was gonna do the same at the Land Trust House, but, well, lets just say that did not come to fruition. (pun intended). Then there was a big church down the road a bit, that had a garden where they grew and gave away the produce to not for profits for distribution to the needy. But they decided that they could grow more food in the same amount of space that would be devoted to the figs. So they nixed that. So I planted 7 in the backyard, but that left me with approximately 30 other figs in pots. Gave half away to a organic farmer at the farmer's market, but don't know what she did with them as have not seen any figs or fig products in her stall. Still have about 15 that I keep trying to give away, but nobody wants them.


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## Mike Hill

Crocosmia wanting to bloom





And my first Phlox - I think I've fallen in love again! It in my IBCG!

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## Mike Hill

And the dangers I go through for you guys! Was almost close enough to see the brand of her underwear!

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## Mike Hill



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## trc65

@Mike Hill be sure and post some pics of the Crocosmia when it blooms. I've got four that I started from seed this year, but won't get to see any blooms till next year.


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## Mike Hill

Will do. I was hoping to get a couple more this year. There is a Lily Nursery in Washington, that is also hybridizing crocosmias now. But was too late - sold all they had.

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## trc65

Picked peas yesterday, and black raspberries today, but here are a few more flower pics.

Swamp milkweed (Asclepias incarnata)





Butterfly weed ( A. tuberosa)





Shasta daisy

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## Mike Hill

Black raspberries!!! Can I be your friend!

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Mike Hill said:


> Black raspberries!!! Can I be your friend!


Sure. I think the raspberries are about done for the year so come on!
Actually mine are about half done. Get maybe 2 cups or so. It is a young patch. Didn't really notice what kinda briars she was pulling out of the flower bed until last year...

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## trc65

Ours are just starting. Those I picked tonight are domestic that I planted. The wild ones, which are mostly in the shade, are a few days away yet.


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## djg

I planted my raspberries out in the sun. They don't do too well. I threaten to put down a soaker hose every year, but I never do.

Can anyone identify this sprout? My garage is packed and maybe a opened seed packet dumped into one of my pots. I emptied 4 pots this Spring, added more compost/dirt to the wheelbarrow and then blended and repotted. All 4 pots have the same sprout.




Might be a weed?

Here's my Horseradish I just plunked in the raise bed when I got them. About 2' high. The bad thing is this is suppose to be my Spinach raised bed.




Plan on transplanting to a barrel raised bed like I have for my strawberries.




Got around to hilling my potatoes last week. On a slope, so it was easier to do on the uphill side. Probably waited too long. One plant was starting to flower and they were tall.





Only thing doing well is my Blackberries.




Can you tell I hate to weed? Hopefully get everything cleaned up this week.

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## trc65

I can't ID the sprout, it doesn't look like any of our normal Midwest weeds, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not. Looks like it came from a large seed, probably not an airborne weed seed. Guess it's probably something that fell into the pot/soil, or was deposited there by an animal. 

Your weeds aren't bad at all, I could show you some real weed problems.... I just mowed off my red raspberry plot as the weeds got too far ahead of them. This fall I'm going to dig a number of plants and make a new raspberry bed which I plan to keep in a nice manicured row.

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## djg

trc65 said:


> I can't ID the sprout, it doesn't look like any of our normal Midwest weeds, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not. Looks like it came from a large seed, probably not an airborne weed seed. Guess it's probably something that fell into the pot/soil, or was deposited there by an animal.
> 
> Your weeds aren't bad at all, I could show you some real weed problems.... I just mowed off my red raspberry plot as the weeds got too far ahead of them. This fall I'm going to dig a number of plants and make a new raspberry bed which I plan to keep in a nice manicured row.


It's weird that it's the only thing in the same in all 4 pots. I think I'll transplant in a row in the garden and see what develops  .

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## trc65

djg said:


> It's weird that it's the only thing in the same in all 4 pots. I think I'll transplant in a row in the garden and see what develops  .


You never know...... Can always kill it later if it develops into a monster...

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## Mike Hill

Agree on the big seed - that cotyledon appears big. And the stalk is big. Not anything that I am around though - stumped for now.

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## djg

I agree, it looks too healthy to be a weed. I had another thought. I collected a few black sunflower seed heads (small seed) last Fall and put them in a box in the garage. Well, the mice got into them and spread them every where. I googled them and they do look a little like them. Not large seed though.
Still not sure though. I'll transplant them just out of curiosity.


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## vegas urban lumber

trc65 said:


> @Mike Hill be sure and post some pics of the Crocosmia when it blooms. I've got four that I started from seed this year, but won't get to see any blooms till next year.


after picking a stem in the wild last year on the Klamath River in California, i ordered 3 or 4 varieties of the crocosmia bulbs off the internet. they have come up about 6 inches tall but the growing conditions are tough at best here in las vegas, hope maybe to get some flowers next year

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## trc65

djg said:


> I agree, it looks too healthy to be a weed. I had another thought. I collected a few black sunflower seed heads (small seed) last Fall and put them in a box in the garage. Well, the mice got into them and spread them every where. I googled them and they do look a little like them. Not large seed though.
> Still not sure though. I'll transplant them just out of curiosity.


Could very well be some sunflower. Let them grow another week or two and you'll know for sure.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Got dark before pictures. Thinned my carrots and started thinning onions. Tomorrow evening it's a roast with baby carrots and hopefully some new potatoes. Will check that in the morning before work... turnips are starting to bolt so, what ever size they are, some go in the roast as well. The larger are 3 inches but most are 1.5 inches.

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## Mike Hill

trc65 said:


> Could very well be some sunflower. Let them grow another week or two and you'll know for sure.


Did not even think about sunflower.

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## trc65

Went out to pick some raspberries tonight. Started with the domestic berries.





Picked all of those and for a little over two quarts.





Then went diving into the brush to pick some wild ones. Had to constantly watch out that none of these nasty things dropped into my pail.





Picked enough wild ones to fill the pail. Lots more to pick, but I was too lazy to walk back and get another pail. They'll still be there tomorrow.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

I probably got a pint off mine today. Just too young a patch to get too many.


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## trc65

These are 3 and 4 year old patches. First year I'm getting any quantity from them. Close to 8 qts so far this year. That's from 6 original plants. Could be producing a lot more if I'd get the weeds under control and would prune the primocanes in a timely manner....


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## 2feathers Creative Making

This is my second year of leaving the canes alone. Two years ago I dug most of the established bed up to reclaim some yard and gave them to my dad. I gave a few canes to a Co worker but he never dug his. That is my new berry patch.

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## djg

trc65 said:


> These are 3 and 4 year old patches. First year I'm getting any quantity from them. Close to 8 qts so far this year. That's from 6 original plants. Could be producing a lot more if I'd get the weeds under control and would prune the primocanes in a timely manner....


At your convenience, could you post a picture of both the tame and wild patches noting their location to sun/shade? I've had trouble with mine ever since I dug up my Mom's and planted them years ago. I suspect they are backing in the full sun. The row runs E to W and only gets a little evening shade. Doesn't help that weeds have taken over.


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## trc65

The cultivated berries are "Bristol Black" and are planted in a N-S orientation. They have mature trees growing about 25 ft directly to the east of them giving full morning shade. Didn't plant them there for the shade, rather it was a spot that was far enough away from my red raspberries. Bl raspberries can be more susceptible to viruses and if too close to red (or other color raspberries) virus transfer through aphids can severely damage the blacks.

The wild ones are in various locations but almost all are in full shade under trees. They produce nice size berries, but do not produce as many berries as the cultivated ones. The wild berries in full sun are mostly the size of peas and dry up almost as soon as they ripen.

I would guess your issue is water and maybe fertility. For best production they should be in full sun, but if they have turf and or weeds growing in competition, would probably need watering, and maybe additional fertilizer.

I'll try to remember to shoot some pictures tomorrow.

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## trc65

One of my asiatic lilies.

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## JerseyHighlander

djg said:


> At your convenience, could you post a picture of both the tame and wild patches noting their location to sun/shade? I've had trouble with mine ever since I dug up my Mom's and planted them years ago. I suspect they are backing in the full sun. The row runs E to W and only gets a little evening shade. Doesn't help that weeds have taken over.


My yard is heavily forested, more shade than anything and I have many wild Rasberries which all seem to prefer the shade/part sun areas of the yard.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

My raspberries are mostly in the woodline there is a tiny patch in full sun for 6 plus hours a day but I think the placement has more to do with roosting than anything else. The birds planted mine.

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## JerseyHighlander

Got something in the mail yesterday, useful thing for gardening types... I've had several of these both inside and outside the house for several years now, finally decided to get more to get my outdoor pots off the ground, further away from the slugs. 
















Supposed to be a deck hanging on that ledger board but, yah... Life goes on.

.

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## trc65

Here are a couple of pics. First are the Bristol berries. This picture is pointing straight East. The berries get sun starting about noon and full afternoon sun. 





The wild berries are deep on shade, but maybe get a couple hours of sun a day. The berries start in the yellow circle and continue into the brush following the yellow dots.

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## Mike Hill

JerseyHighlander said:


> Got something in the mail yesterday, useful thing for gardening types... I've had several of these both inside and outside the house for several years now, finally decided to get more to get my outdoor pots off the ground, further away from the slugs.
> 
> View attachment 228416
> 
> View attachment 228417
> View attachment 228418
> 
> View attachment 228419
> 
> Supposed to be a deck hanging on that ledger board but, yah... Life goes on.
> 
> .


If I used those clay pots like i'd like to, I'd be watering 2 or 3 times a day right now. We're not Texas but we have 98 Dec without rain for 2 weeks and only 2 rains in 6 weeks. And they've raised our water rates to pay for all this uncontrolled growth that it is painful to water.

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## djg

JerseyHighlander said:


> My yard is heavily forested, more shade than anything and I have many wild Rasberries which all seem to prefer the shade/part sun areas of the yard.


I have a 100'+ row of wild blackberries running N/S along a tree line that was shaded most of the day. One year I picked 12 gallons + of berries. Now it's over run with weeds and only produces small ones. I plan on mowing them down and taking care of them as I replant them.

My Mom's Bk Raspberries were on the North side of a shed and did great. The house is sold so I have to take care of what I've got. Next year, I'll put in a soaker hose earlier and if that doesn't help, I replant them down by the Blackberries along the tree line.

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## djg

trc65 said:


> Here are a couple of pics. First are the Bristol berries. This picture is pointing straight East. The berries get sun starting about noon and full afternoon sun.
> 
> View attachment 228456
> 
> The wild berries are deep on shade, but maybe get a couple hours of sun a day. The berries start in the yellow circle and continue into the brush following the yellow dots.
> 
> View attachment 228457


Yes that's how my wild blackberries were too when I bought the property to build on. One of the reason I bought the property.

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## JerseyHighlander

If you pay attention to the rasberry bushes, you'll notice new stems growing hard this year that won't produce any fruit. Those that were growing new last year are the ones producing fruit this year and those that produced fruit last year were dead this spring. So, every late summer/fall I go through and prune out all the stems that produced fruit this year, usually taking all the leaves to dry for red raspberry leaf tea (very good medicine). This allows the plant to put all it's energy to the growth of the stems that will produce next year. 

Also, everywhere you let a long stem fall over where the end touches the ground, it will take root and produce another new plant...

I try to trellis them up a bit too, keep them untangled, spread out and off the ground so it's easier to get to the fruit and the ground rodents aren't steeling it. 
Some of them are still kinda wild and overgrown. Too much work, too little time.

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## JerseyHighlander

Mike Hill said:


> If I used those clay pots like i'd like to, I'd be watering 2 or 3 times a day right now. We're not Texas but we have 98 Dec without rain for 2 weeks and only 2 rains in 6 weeks. And they've raised our water rates to pay for all this uncontrolled growth that it is painful to water.


Surprised it's so dry there. We've been getting dumped on regularly and it's been mostly humid all the time so things aren't drying out too bad. You need to move to the country where you water comes from a well... I don't like/trust the municipal water, even though ours comes primarily from four Twp. wells, I've been watering entirely out of my rainwater collection system so far. 

Don't even get me started on these developers that overgrow the infrastructure by an order of magnitude and leave the people with the bill & problems. Deeper and deeper into the woods I go.

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## trc65

Here is a PDF from Wisconsin on growing raspberries. Good info on pruning, fertility, etc.

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## djg

Storm woke me up (we got rain!) so I thought I'd post last week's activities.
I got the sunflowers transplanted into the garden. My plan was, when I collected the heads, to plant rows in the down hill section. I wanted to attract yellow finches so I can photograph them. But that area (see later photos) is overgrown with weed and Hawthorn saplings. Use to be my strawberry patch. Just haven't reclaimed it yet.



They were mostly bare rooted and haven't bounced back yet. To the left, Horseradish in my Spinach raised bed. Potatoes to the right. Strawberry raised bed at top.

My current Raspberry row:



Pretty pathetic. The brush in the background (center frame) is the overgrown old Strawberry patch.

Here's a better pic of my Strawberry raised bed, made from a barrel, after I mulched it.



This Spring when I transplanted them, The rains drowned them out and they started to die. I pulled off the mulch. They bounced back until the heat. Then they started to die off again. So I put mulch back on and watered heavy. Runners have started so I replaced the dead ones. Some critter is eating the leaves so a short 12" chicken wire fence and cover go on next. Next Spring I'll put some type of rain cover on it.

Sorry for the long post  .

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## JerseyHighlander

I wish I had that much space to grow things. I could clear out a bit more but not putting any more energy into this place, just concentrating on moving north. 
Sounds like you may want to think about row covers for certain crops. Helps you modulate both the sun/temperature and the moisture. Even helps keep the destructive insects off to some extent. 

Do you have any idea if your plants/seeds are coming from zones comparable to yours? I've been making a greater effort to buy from suppliers that are in zones that match my climate and things are doing a lot better than when seed was coming from the hot south and California... Found a really great seed supplier in the Finger Lakes region of NY and another in Maine. 

Hawthorn is another outstanding herbal medicine... Could save your life one day. Pick a couple good ones and give them what they need to thrive. Real nice wood for spoon carving too, at least from what I've seen. Still waiting to get my hands on some.


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## djg

I was actually trying to cut back on the garden. Too much to take care of, finally almost caught up. This is the best it's looked in a long time.
I buy my seeds locally so I really don't know.
I've got a large roll of black mess. I thought about cutting strips out of it and ad some lumber and it to my Raspberry fence for some shade.
Cold be Honey Locust too. Has thorns.


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## trc65

First potatoes from the garden. 'Superior' is the variety. Having them for supper along with the first head of broccoli and some ham.

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## Mr. Peet

trc65 said:


> First potatoes from the garden. 'Superior' is the variety. Having them for supper along with the first head of broccoli and some ham.
> 
> View attachment 228491


What'd ya do, wash the skins rite off?


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## Mr. Peet

JerseyHighlander said:


> I wish I had that much space to grow things. I could clear out a bit more but not putting any more energy into this place, just concentrating on moving north.
> Sounds like you may want to think about row covers for certain crops. Helps you modulate both the sun/temperature and the moisture. Even helps keep the destructive insects off to some extent.
> 
> Do you have any idea if your plants/seeds are coming from zones comparable to yours? I've been making a greater effort to buy from suppliers that are in zones that match my climate and things are doing a lot better than when seed was coming from the hot south and California... Found a really great seed supplier in the Finger Lakes region of NY and another in Maine.
> 
> Hawthorn is another outstanding herbal medicine... Could save your life one day. Pick a couple good ones and give them what they need to thrive. Real nice wood for spoon carving too, at least from what I've seen. Still waiting to get my hands on some.


I'll keep an eye for some Hawthorn for you. Two years ago they cut a few 8-12 inchers (DBH) under a local powerline. Being I lacked the time to properly ID them for species, I let them go....

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## JerseyHighlander

Mr. Peet said:


> I'll keep an eye for some Hawthorn for you. Two years ago they cut a few 8-12 inchers (DBH) under a local powerline. Being I lacked the time to properly ID them for species, I let them go....


That would be awesome and much appreciated... 
I've never seen one more than just a couple inches diameter. I don't remember off hand and don't know how many of them are local but I remember reading there's some absurd number of different species of Hawthorn. I know for the Brits it near as common as Beech is here, as a full size tree.


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## trc65

Mr. Peet said:


> What'd ya do, wash the skins rite off?


They have a little skin, but at this early stage, it's still very tender and pale. Even at maturity, 'Superior' has a very white, thin skin.

We've had a lot of rain, so didn't even need to scrub these, just hosed them off and put them in the pan to boil.

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## Wildthings

I grew my first ever potatoes this year, in 5 gal buckets. Got enough for one meal and they were very good

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## Nature Man

Wildthings said:


> I grew my first ever potatoes this year, in 5 gal buckets. Got enough for one meal and they were very good
> 
> View attachment 228495 View attachment 228496
> View attachment 228497


Congrats! Probably enough growing season left for another round! Chuck

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## Mike Hill

JerseyHighlander said:


> Surprised it's so dry there. We've been getting dumped on regularly and it's been mostly humid all the time so things aren't drying out too bad. You need to move to the country where you water comes from a well... I don't like/trust the municipal water, even though ours comes primarily from four Twp. wells, I've been watering entirely out of my rainwater collection system so far.
> 
> Don't even get me started on these developers that overgrow the infrastructure by an order of magnitude and leave the people with the bill & problems. Deeper and deeper into the woods I go.


Yeh, Its been often like yesterday, a pretty good, solid block of showers had dead aim on us. Being in construction, I've become a radar watcher. The closer the "band" got, I could see it start breaking up about 20-30 miles out. The middle of it basically broke up and the two remaining parts passed to the north and to the south. Pretty common occurence. Or like early part of next week, I watched one heat/popup shower pop up about 50-60 miles to the NW - headed straight for us, but 10 miles out - it popped down! I mean, I've heard about the "Island Effect", but this is extreme! And No! The Island effect does not result in Crazy Islanders - at least I don't think it does!

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Mike Hill said:


> Yeh, Its been often like yesterday, a pretty good, solid block of showers had dead aim on us. Being in construction, I've become a radar watcher. The closer the "band" got, I could see it start breaking up about 20-30 miles out. The middle of it basically broke up and the two remaining parts passed to the north and to the south. Pretty common occurence. Or like early part of next week, I watched one heat/popup shower pop up about 50-60 miles to the NW - headed straight for us, but 10 miles out - it popped down! I mean, I've heard about the "Island Effect", but this is extreme! And No! The Island effect does not result in Crazy Islanders - at least I don't think it does!


Ever thought your water company was paying the weatherman?

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## Mike Hill

Never thought of that conspiracy ------- yet! I thought Krogers was the only ones that paid off the weathermen - but they limited it to the winter!


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## trc65

Wildthings said:


> I grew my first ever potatoes this year, in 5 gal buckets. Got enough for one meal and they were very good
> 
> View attachment 228495 View attachment 228496
> View attachment 228497




Nice looking spuds! Probably too hot to plant any more down there now, but if you can find seed potatoes, could plant more towards end of August into September when the temp drops a little.

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## djg

This past week I got the black berries cleaned up and mulched. Yes I know, it kind of late. Berries should be ready shortly.




Cleanest part of my garden.

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## djg

Meant also to say, my replant of okra and green beans have sprouted finally. Maybe too late to get any yield off of them. I don't know. Beans are less than stellar. Only about a dozen plants. Next year I'm thinking about mulching the row of peas/beans right after planting to help retain moisture needed for germination.


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## Nature Man

djg said:


> Meant also to say, my replant of okra and green beans have sprouted finally. Maybe too late to get any yield off of them. I don't know. Beans are less than stellar. Only about a dozen plants. Next year I'm thinking about mulching the row of peas/beans right after planting to help retain moisture needed for germination.


I read somewhere that, at least for beans, turning them under in the soil really enhances the soil. Not sure this is true for all spent vegetables. Chuck

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## djg

Nature Man said:


> I read somewhere that, at least for beans, turning them under in the soil really enhances the soil. Not sure this is true for all spent vegetables. Chuck


I got to get them to sprout first  !

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## JerseyHighlander

djg said:


> Meant also to say, my replant of okra and green beans have sprouted finally. Maybe too late to get any yield off of them. I don't know. Beans are less than stellar. Only about a dozen plants. Next year I'm thinking about mulching the row of peas/beans right after planting to help retain moisture needed for germination.


Do you know what your soil PH is? It's one of the biggest things I've found to effect the plants performance and blossoming/production. 
I have very alkaline soil here, planted a tomato plant years ago that grew but didn't get a single flower on it. Started dumping my coffee grinds/water at the base of the plant to acidify the soil and the difference in a week was profound.

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## trc65

djg said:


> Meant also to say, my replant of okra and green beans have sprouted finally. Maybe too late to get any yield off of them. I don't know. Beans are less than stellar. Only about a dozen plants. Next year I'm thinking about mulching the row of peas/beans right after planting to help retain moisture needed for germination.


You will definitely get a bean crop. They are only a 60 day crop, so you should have beans before Labor Day. You can plant beans up until about middle of August and still get a crop in Zone 5. Don't know how long okra takes, but I'd think you should get something out of them.

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## trc65

Nature Man said:


> I read somewhere that, at least for beans, turning them under in the soil really enhances the soil. Not sure this is true for all spent vegetables. Chuck


Beans of all types are nitrogen fixers, so turning them under does add a little N to the soil, but even more important, tilling under any green plant material increases organic matter and promotes a healthier soil. It also decreases disease pressure as you are destroying any active infections and lessening future inoculum.

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## djg

JerseyHighlander said:


> Do you know what your soil PH is? It's one of the biggest things I've found to effect the plants performance and blossoming/production.
> I have very alkaline soil here, planted a tomato plant years ago that grew but didn't get a single flower on it. Started dumping my coffee grinds/water at the base of the plant to acidify the soil and the difference in a week was profound.


Don't know the pH of the soil. I've thought about one of those soil pH meters, though.


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## trc65

Harvested the first variety of garlic this afternoon and got them hung in the shed to cure. This is 'Chesnok Red.

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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> Harvested the first variety of garlic this afternoon and got them hung in the shed to cure. This is 'Chesnok Red.
> 
> View attachment 228691
> 
> View attachment 228692


Now you're going to make me envious... Love good, homegrown garlic and Chesnok is at the top of the list. Have not been able to grown any with any success since moving out here. Looks like it did well.

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## trc65

Is your soil too alkaline for garlic?

Chesnok has the smallest bulb of the four varieties I grow, but really like the flavor. Not too hot raw, but retains good flavor when roasted. Stores good, but not as long as the others I grow.

BTW, also have Armenian, Carpathian and Spanish Roja. Spanish Roja is supposed to store about the longest, but the other two store nearly as long, and retain better quality than Spanish Roja.

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## djg

Round #3. I had mentioned that some of my beans had sprouted, about a dozen plant. Went ou this morning to water and they were gone. Rabbits got them. So broke up the ground and planted the last packet of pole beans. Put a light covering of mulch over them and watered. One of the next mornings I'll get out the new galv. chicken wire I bought last year. Too hot to do it today. 90+ degrees by 10AM.

Speaking of watering. I've got a couple of rose bushes mulched an water periodically. Today I noticed some yellow blotchy leaves on one. Too much water, not enough in this heat, need to spray with diazanon again?


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## trc65

Sounds more like a foliar disease called black spot. Check out this site and look at pictures/descriptions to see if something matches your symptoms. https://web.extension.illinois.edu/roses/disease.cfm

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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> Is your soil too alkaline for garlic?
> 
> Chesnok has the smallest bulb of the four varieties I grow, but really like the flavor. Not too hot raw, but retains good flavor when roasted. Stores good, but not as long as the others I grow.
> 
> BTW, also have Armenian, Carpathian and Spanish Roja. Spanish Roja is supposed to store about the longest, but the other two store nearly as long, and retain better quality than Spanish Roja.


Exactly. My soil is/was way too alkaline, also more shade than sunlight here in the forest isn't helping. 
I started amending it to bring the Ph down but it's not a fast process and then life happened yet again. This year is the first I'm trying to grow anything since probably 2008. Hoping I'll have better soil when I move north, I'm looking forward to growing garlic again. 

Carpathian and Spanish Roja are also serious favorites, especially Spanish Roja. Also used to get one called Turbin. If I remember correctly it was an asiatic, much like Chesnok, haven't been able to find it for several years now.

You save your own harvest for next years seed or buy it?

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## trc65

I always save the biggest and best to replant. Only bought garlic for seed twice in 17 years. First when I grew garlic for the first time, and then about 5 years ago when I wanted to try the Armenian and Carpathian. The Spanish Roja and Chesnok are descendants of the original seed I bought.

Filaree Farm is the supplier I've used before, they are an organic seed grower in Washington State. They've got a great variety of nearly all types of garlic, but if anyone wants some you should get orders in soon for best selection. Order now for fall delivery.

Looked for "Turban" and they list it as a category of garlic, rather than a variety. Mostly varieties from China and former Soviet republics. Hardnecks that are early maturing, weak bolting, and smaller plants.

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## djg

Curious how you test your soil's pH. I really don't want to send it in somewhere. Do you have a meter? If so, which one?


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## JerseyHighlander

djg said:


> Curious how you test your soil's pH. I really don't want to send it in somewhere. Do you have a meter? If so, which one?


I've been wanting to get a decent meter for years but so far I've just used the simple shake & bake tests you can get at any garden center. Just put a measured amount of soil in the vial, add contents of a test capsule, distilled water, shake and match the color to the chart.

This one also does NPK if you want. The procedure for that is a little bit more involved but not terrible.

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## trc65

I don't test for pH. I know my soils well enough to know I'm in a good slightly acidic range. A lot of the cheap meters aren't worth bothering with, they just don't work. I'd recommend looking for some litmus testing paper specifically marketed for soil testing. They are cheap and fairly accurate as long as all proceedures are followed closely.

Unfortunately, the Extension service in Illinois doesn't run a soil testing lab for homeowners.

In Wisconsin, all you have to do is take a soil sample to your county extension office and for about $25 you get a complete soil analysis as well as fertilizer recommendations for veg and fruitcrops. It's a service that is used extensively and really helps prevent over use of fertilizer in urban areas.

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## djg

Thanks, I look into the test paper. I could do multiple areas in my garden cheaply. If the meters don't work, I too would rather not waste money on them.
Tired of all my questions yet? My Mom swore she was going to change my name to "Why" because I asked questions all the time. Sorry I can't contribute with anything pertinent, because my experience just doesn't fit this forum.

So, how do you save Garlic bulbs from year to year? I buy store bought Garlic and it shrivels and drys out it a cabinet. In the frig it rots.

and you plant Fall garlic?

Thanks in advance.


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## trc65

I have used the little kits Kyle mentioned to test for pH and they are easy to use since they contain everything you need. Everyplace that sells garden supplies usually has those. 

As to garlic. Never try to use garlic or potatoes from the grocery store as 'seed'. They all are treated with sprout inhibitors to extend shelf life and they won't grow normally. Additionally, what you see in the grocery store are almost entirely softneck varieties which are really not suited for Northern areas. I only grow hardnecks varieties although there are some softnecks I could grow, I don't bother with them.

After harvest, the garlic hangs in my machine shed until fall /winter when I bring it in to keep it from freezing. I store them along with onions and potatoes in basement stairwell that is in a unheated garage. They will usually last until February or so before they either dry up or sprout. By that time though. I've roasted and froze most of it to use during the year.

Harvest garlic in July, hangs in the shed until October/early November when I plant for the next year. Before the ground freezes, it puts out a good root system. In very early spring it emerges and begins to put out leaves. Give them a shot of N fertilizer approx April first and again May first.

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## trc65

This is today's inside project. Cutting up and blanching/freezing broccoli. About four gallons of cut up florets.

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## trc65

Went out tonight to cut some cauliflower. Will freeze it later this week.

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## djg

I checked the garlic seller and many others, and it's amazing how many varieties there are out there. Can't believe so many are out of stock. The prices are a little crazy, too 10 per bulb plush shipping (I think I already mentioned I'm a cheap SOB). I had a company picked out and two varieties, but I can't seem to find it know. So I think I'll just learn a little more about them, get a spot ready for them and order next Spring.

I use to plant Gerber Daisies in planters for my porch. Hard to grow but I did manage to Winter one or two of them inside. I've since switched to Gazanias. This year they're a little slow to grow. I managed to Winter one this past year and it looked pathetic. Thought I lost it. I transplanted it this Spring and it's really taken off. Still learning about its needs. Doesn't seem to like too much sun or water. A little finicky.

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## sprucegum

Peas and baby potatoes. I always hope to have them for the 4th of July. Missed by a week this year

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## JerseyHighlander

djg said:


> I checked the garlic seller and many others, and it's amazing how many varieties there are out there. Can't believe so many are out of stock. The prices are a little crazy, too 10 per bulb plush shipping (I think I already mentioned I'm a cheap SOB). I had a company picked out and two varieties, but I can't seem to find it know. So I think I'll just learn a little more about them, get a spot ready for them and order next Spring.
> 
> I use to plant Gerber Daisies in planters for my porch. Hard to grow but I did manage to Winter one or two of them inside. I've since switched to Gazanias. This year they're a little slow to grow. I managed to Winter one this past year and it looked pathetic. Thought I lost it. I transplanted it this Spring and it's really taken off. Still learning about its needs. Doesn't seem to like too much sun or water. A little finicky.
> 
> View attachment 228874
> 
> View attachment 228875


Most garlic growers haven't yet harvested what they'll be selling this year, remember it get's planted in the fall. Local farmers markets can be a good source and in the fall many areas have large garlic festivals that can be the best source and reasoably priced.

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## djg

So which would you buy? The seeds or the "acorns"?








Garlic, Chesnok Red Garlic Seeds 500+ SEEDS NON-GMO healthy USA garlic seeds | eBay


A versatile garlic holds its origins in the Republic of Georgia, and is said to be one of the best for cooking and has in fact won several “Best for Baking” contests. Holds its shape and flavor well when cooked.



www.ebay.com





Just looking around.


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## sprucegum

We have for the past few years planted out own bulbs from the late summer harvest. I really don't recall the variety's, one is red the other white. We used to purchase them, but it seems that the price of purchased bulbs has gotten so high that you may as well just buy your garlic. You could probably just purchase some locally grown garlic at a farmers' market and plant it. By purchasing from a local grower, you can be assured that it's hardy for your area. Oh, by the way we are having new potatoes and garlic scapes roasted on the pellet grill tonight, along with boiled fresh peas. Trying to talk the wife into a strawberry rhubarb pie, I think she is going to the farmstand to get berries so theirs's hope.

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## djg

sprucegum said:


> ..... Oh, by the way we are having new potatoes and garlic scapes roasted on the pellet grill tonight, along with boiled fresh peas. Trying to talk the wife into a strawberry rhubarb pie, I think she is going to the farmstand to get berries so theirs's hope.


Oh Man that sounds GOOD! I haven't had fresh garden peas in years. They don't come up or the rabbits get them. Takes me back to when I was a kid. Mom would make boiled peas and small potatoes. Thanks for the memory.


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## sprucegum

djg said:


> Oh Man that sounds GOOD! I haven't had fresh garden peas in years. They don't come up or the rabbits get them. Takes me back to when I was a kid. Mom would make boiled peas and small potatoes. Thanks for the memory.


That's how I like them, my mom used to boil them then put them together with milk gravy. My grandson is here today so I'm roasting the potatoes because he lives them that way. Barring a disaster of some sort we should be picking peas for the next 3 weeks so plenty of time for other recipes. My grandson and wife settled on strawberry rhubarb crisp with ice cream for dessert

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## sprucegum

Tallest ones are a good foot over my 5' 11” head and just loaded with immature pods and blossoms. They will continue to grow and blossom as long as conditions are right. Eventually hot weather and one fungus or another will do them in. I'm already seeing some yellowing leaves.

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## Wildthings

One last harvest of cherry tomatoes and that's it for this season. This heat wave this year has everything scorched and I can't keep enough water in their containers to make it worthwhile. Yesterday it was 105 degrees here and parched. Forecast shows high pressure moving to the west allowing sea breeze to come in and increasing chances of rain to 30%. We'll see

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## djg

My peas (Little Marvels) never get more than 2' high. Those are amazing. Grown on a cattle panel?

The leaves on my potatoes are drying up already, While weeding, I pulled up a plant. This is all the potatoes I got off the plant. When I do dig them up, I don't get much more than that.

Tame Blackberries are coming in but not as thick as normal.

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## sprucegum

It's been unusually dry here this summer and I am not looking for much of a potato crop. They are still green and growing well . The pea fence is just inexpensive jute twine hooked to poor quality boards from my mill. I just cut it down with the vines and compost the whole mess. We have plenty of wild black berries in the woods, some years they have a good crop and we pick some.

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## djg

When I bought my property for my house, it had a 150' or so row of wild blackberries, which I picked. One year I got 12 gallons. They've since gotten overgrown with weeds and the berries are small. been tempted to mow them over and let them re-sprout through the weeds. Might have mentioned it before.

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## Mike Hill

Ahhhh, my lineup of runway beauties is about over - the best was last.

Started the season (have already posted - but here's a couple more late ones) with my fabulously flamboyant frilly can-can fun girls kicking up their legs - the daylilies.



 



Then for the surprise of the year (I forgot I planted them) - the luscious lacy filigree teddies demurely yet passionately floating on the gentle breezes showing off their finest - Phlox







To the bawdy and teasingly ribald, provacatively pantalooned and petticoated danseuse that give their all to the breezes that blow their skirts up - the hardy hibiscus. They may be big girls - but they know how to move!





One warning about the hibiscus - not all are demure - some just got dirty thoughts!




To the last and LONG-awaited thrill of my year - the salacious, sultry, smoky sirens of samba and scent. The exotic, elegant, entrancing, ambrosial - Oriental Lilies. I fall to my knees at their refinement. They know how pretty they are and not ashamed of advertising it by leaving traces of their lipstick as you gently brush against their brashness. Just a walk past them in the gentle soft stillness of almost dusk, and I'm blown away by their heavenly fragrant demeanor!










​
​

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## trc65

djg said:


> So which would you buy? The seeds or the "acorns"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Garlic, Chesnok Red Garlic Seeds 500+ SEEDS NON-GMO healthy USA garlic seeds | eBay
> 
> 
> A versatile garlic holds its origins in the Republic of Georgia, and is said to be one of the best for cooking and has in fact won several “Best for Baking” contests. Holds its shape and flavor well when cooked.
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just looking around.


I'd stay away from anybody selling "true" seed. That is actual seeds, not bulbs or bulbils. Very few garlic varieties actually produce seed, and most of them are being used in garlic breeding programs at Universities.

Some people will refer to bubils as seed, but they are essentially mini cloves that are produced on the end of scapes. You can grow garlic from the bulbils, but the resulting plants will be small and the yield low.

Stick to getting full bulbs and then planting the individual cloves. If you can't find any, come October I'll send you some of the varieties I have. I produce more than I ever use and would be happy to share some. However, you'll have to remind me, there's no way I'll ever remember by October.

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## Mike Hill

I don't got veggies - jes flowers. Don't judge! But here's somewhat of a rarity when I first started growing it, and it was an endangered species at the time. It needs full sun, great drainage and very limestoney/poor soil. Only place I have like that is in a very small patch next to the mailbox, where apparently a lot of crushed limestone gravel made it's way when the street was built. Tennessee purple coneflower - Echinacea tennesseensis





Thought to be extinct for quite some time until late 60's when three patches were found near Nashville in the cedar glade area and put on the endangered species list. I started growing them in the 80's when I finally was able to snatch some seed. In 2011 they were taken off the endangered species list. In my yard they seem to breed with the Echinacea purpurea and I have volunteer progeny exhibiting traits of both parents.

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## trc65

Mike, I got some seed of E. tennesseensis about 10 years ago and germinated a few to add to my native wildflower area. Had them for a few years until (I think) they just couldn't compete with other plants that have since taken over. After seeing yours, may have to give them a try again when I get the current mess of wildflowers sorted out, in a year or two....


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## Sprung

Picked a good amount of sugar snap peas yesterday. Got them blanched and in the freezer now. We'll grab a small handful here and there through the winter to toss in stir fries. Pulled topsets from the Egyptian walking onions this morning and planted a bunch of them - we don't have the space in the raised beds to just let them "walk" and replant wherever they would go. Put some brussel sprout seeds in the ground, hoping in time for a fall harvest after first frost - we're about 3 months out from average first frost date. Most everything else is growing well.

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## sprucegum

We have been alternating between meals of beet greens and peas. Also digging Northland red baby potatoes as we need them, they get a little bigger every time. Also harvesting romaine lettuce daily. So far we have 8 pints of peas in the freezer. We try to preserve enough vegetables to last until the next garden is producing. We are down to the last dozen or so meals from last year.

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## Mike Hill

Egads - I think I'm going soft, but I must say I admire you guys who grow, preserve/freeze What y'all eat!

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## JerseyHighlander

I've a fealing that skillset is about to become invaluable.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

JerseyHighlander said:


> I've a fealing that skillset is about to become invaluable.


That skill set has always been invaluable.

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## Sprung

Yup... It's always been invaluable - but it will be more so in the next years.

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## sprucegum

We have been doing it since 1974 through good times and bad. We of course purchase some things but it's nice to know we don't have to.

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## JerseyHighlander

sprucegum said:


> We have been doing it since 1974 through good times and bad. We of course purchase some things but it's nice to know we don't have to.


And when you can't it doesn't impact you like it does others. 

A more stark comparrison for me is when the power goes out long term in a winter storm. People around here that are reliant on their central heating systems start abandoning their homes to go where they have heat, our wood burning stove is already going 24/7, for us it's just another day. 
When things start to get that way with food, it's going to get interesting.


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## Eric Rorabaugh

Between what we preserve, freeze, can and stockpile, my wife and I could go.for quite a while. Even if the kids came here, we would be good for a while. Gonna can more this year and I'll probably can several deer. Probably make 2-3 whole deer into jerky. I'm off after Wednesday for 1.5 weeks so the.next thing is canning peaches and making peach butter.

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## trc65

We do the same as others have mentioned above. Usually can more than we can eat in a year, but just rotate and discard older canned and frozen veggies and fruit. Don't do it because of any "current" events, always done it since I was a kid. You never know what kind of weather disaster might occur during a growing season and destroy a crop.

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## Eric Rorabaugh

This time of the year I really miss my granny. She was the one that taught me to make jelly and preserves. I'm the same way. Don't do it just for the current times we are living in. Have been doing it for years. But I will probably put up more due to the situation to help the kids if they want it

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## trc65

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Between what we preserve, freeze, can and stockpile, my wife and I could go.for quite a while. Even if the kids came here, we would be good for a while. Gonna can more this year and I'll probably can several deer. Probably make 2-3 whole deer into jerky. I'm off after Wednesday for 1.5 weeks so the.next thing is canning peaches and making peach butter.


As hard as I've tried just can't get a decent peach or apricot crop. Trees last just a few seasons before they get gummosis and die.

Local Farm Bureau is getting a shipment of peaches from an orchard in S Illinois in a few weeks and I've already got my order in. Really looking forward to fresh peaches (that weren't harvested green). Will be canning some, make jam and some red raspberry/peach jam.

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## Eric Rorabaugh

I'm fortunate with the peaches and apples. A good buddy of mine has an orchard so I get a good deal on them. Last year I got a whole bin of apples for apple butter (215 quarts). Peaches didn't do.good last year but this year is real good. Everyone is wanting the peach butter. I'll make it, can some and freeze some for cobblers.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

We've got okra left... a few sweet pepper plants and some tomatoes that refuse to shrivel up and die... Over a week of 100+ days pretty much wiped everything out. We got some rain Wed - Fri, but it was too late. But, now I get to scrape it smooth, till in the Spring compost and get ready for fall. 

Alan

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## djg

I was hoping to can green beans this year, but my third planting failed. I froze beans last year, but they weren't as good as fresh. I can okra the last several years. I still have a dozen jars from last year. They're not bad but I wish I could use less vinegar. I might try balsamic vinegar this year on some. And I'm not sure I can taste the garlic that I put in either.

Will be trying pickles again this year, but every time I try, they end up soft. Any thoughts?

Use to make peach syrup too, but critters get most of them. My Apricots usually get sap blisters on them and then drop.


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## trc65

djg said:


> I was hoping to can green beans this year, but my third planting failed. I froze beans last year, but they weren't as good as fresh. I can okra the last several years. I still have a dozen jars from last year. They're not bad but I wish I could use less vinegar. I might try balsamic vinegar this year on some. And I'm not sure I can taste the garlic that I put in either.
> 
> Will be trying pickles again this year, but every time I try, they end up soft. Any thoughts?
> 
> Use to make peach syrup too, but critters get most of them. My Apricots usually get sap blisters on them and then drop.


I don't know the acidity of balsamic vinegar, but make sure your acidity doesn't get too low if you try some of it.

Best pickles I've ever made were whole dill pickles, all of them no bigger than your thumb. Small and extremely fresh are important. I usually only pickle what I can pick the same day. Cut off blossom end of the cuke, it contains enzymes that can soften them. Some use an additive to try and keep them crisp, think it's calcium chloride, called Pickle Crisp or something like that.

If you haven't tried it, give crock pickles a try - lacto fermentation makes the best flavored pickles. You can then either can them, or just keep them in a crock in the fridge.

Another tip, instead of using a boiling water bath to can pickles, you may also pasteurize them in a water bath at 180° for 30 minutes. This will also result in crisper pickles. 

Here is a pub from NDSU on making pickles, sauerkraut, etc. https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/publications/food-nutrition/making-pickled-products

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## Eric Rorabaugh

Not in my garden but...
A buddy of mine owns a wrecker company. Had a semi roll over today (and I mean ROLL over a couple times) that was loaded with onions. They won't let them be sold after that so they went in a dumpster. So I got a couple bags (50# each). Will go get a couple more in the morning for some people I share with. We're going to can some caramelized onions, freeze some, save some and I'll use some when I can my spaghetti sauce. It's a shame that the rest are going to the dump.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Not in my garden but...
> A buddy of mine owns a wrecker company. Had a semi roll over today (and I mean ROLL over a couple times) that was loaded with onions. They won't let them be sold after that so they went in a dumpster. So I got a couple bags (50# each). Will go get a couple more in the morning for some people I share with. We're going to can some caramelized onions, freeze some, save some and I'll use some when I can my spaghetti sauce. It's a shame that the rest are going to the dump.
> 
> View attachment 229219


It is a shame they can't be donated to a food kitchen. The local dollar general stores have been known to fill a soup kitchen If their refrigerator truck comes in 4 or 5 degrees off the 20 degrees that is specified.

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## drycreek

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Not in my garden but...
> A buddy of mine owns a wrecker company. Had a semi roll over today (and I mean ROLL over a couple times) that was loaded with onions. They won't let them be sold after that so they went in a dumpster. So I got a couple bags (50# each). Will go get a couple more in the morning for some people I share with. We're going to can some caramelized onions, freeze some, save some and I'll use some when I can my spaghetti sauce. It's a shame that the rest are going to the dump.
> 
> View attachment 229219


It’s a shame but I’ve got a friend in Florida that use to farm about 500 acres of truck crops. Would always let people glean his fields until one sued him because they claimed they got sick on a rotten cabbage that they picked and ate. Their doctor claimed they had food poisoning from the cabbage. He semi lost the case and only had to pay for their medical bill (they wanted way more) so he shut down letting anyone glean after that.

As a young man I lived about a mile from a dang near 90 degree curve on a major two lane highway and they were always rolling trucks there and we use to get everything from meat, produce, fruit and building materials for free as long as we would help clean up the mess. That wouldn’t happen in today’s world.

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## JerseyHighlander

2feathers Creative Making said:


> It is a shame they can't be donated to a food kitchen. The local dollar general stores have been known to fill a soup kitchen If their refrigerator truck comes in 4 or 5 degrees off the 20 degrees that is specified.


Put a post in your local Craigslist, in the for Free section, that dumpster will be empty within a couple hours.

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## JerseyHighlander

Wondering how you guys that grow a lot start your seeds, not just in spring before the last frost but throughout the year for rotational and successive planting. Specifically, does anyone use grow lights? If so, any specific set up? 
Starting from seed seems to be the bain of my existence. Even when I manage to get good germination, the seedlings get too long and lanky to support their own weight and just never live to become a full fledged plant. I think it's a problem of not enough good direct sun so ordered one light today to tryout and see if it makes a difference. Dam things aren't cheap either.


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## 2feathers Creative Making

Rotational and successive crops go in the ground for me, I tend to pull my early lettuce and salad greens and plant things like parsley. When my spring turnips come out I planted onions. When I dug my potatoes I planted my second batch of bush beans. I am considering a second potato crop when I finish my carrot and broccoli harvest. Here in the warmer parts we have the luxury of waiting. That being said, a grow light can help, also, you might try taking them outdoors and planting them in a starter bed similar to a cold frame where you can keep the seed eating buggers away. That way they are acclimated to the weather and sunlight in your garden instead of your house.

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## trc65

JerseyHighlander said:


> Wondering how you guys that grow a lot start your seeds, not just in spring before the last frost but throughout the year for rotational and successive planting. Specifically, does anyone use grow lights? If so, any specific set up?
> Starting from seed seems to be the bain of my existence. Even when I manage to get good germination, the seedlings get too long and lanky to support their own weight and just never live to become a full fledged plant. I think it's a problem of not enough good direct sun so ordered one light today to tryout and see if it makes a difference. Dam things aren't cheap either.


I start about 25 flats of seedlings each year. Flowers, Cole crops, onions, celery, peppers, tomatoes, pumpkins, gourds and squash, etc. Only time I buy a plant for the garden is if I need a variety of pepper or something that didn't germinate well or I forgot to order seed for.

Everything is started in my basement and lives there until it's warm enough to go out in a coldframe. I will start some flowers the first week of February, and continually plant more up until about mid May. I'll start again in another week or two with fall Cole crops and Chinese cabbage for my kimchi.

Been doing this for 15+ years. Started with T12 fluorescent lights. Moved to T8 and now am using LED shop lights of at least 5000k. Stay away from anything in the 3500k to 4000k spectrum, those have too much red light. Blue light is what you want for seedlings. Cool temps are also important after germination, really don't want anything over 60-65° for vegetative growth. Keep the lights close to the plants (3-4”) and keep them on for 16hours a day.

Expensive full spectrum LED lights are not needed for growing transplants. The only reason for using those is if you are planning on growing a plant to maturity under lights.

I think somewhere in this thread I posted pictures of my racks that are made from 3/4" pvc. The main rack has three shelves that each hold four 1020 flats. I am currently using 3-4' LED lights per shelf. I used to use only two lights per shelf with fluorescent lights, but the LED Lights are so narrow anymore, I moved to three.

In summary, cool temps, 5000k LED shop lights for 16 hrs a day.

Im assuming the light you ordered is a full spectrum "grow light" if so I'd highly recommend returning it if you can and pick up some $20 LED shop lights. Pair that with $20 or so in PVC pipe and fittings and you'll be on the way. For under $100 you could probably put together a two shelf system for up to 8 flats.

Edit: There are a couple pictures of my setup on the first page of this thread.

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## trc65

A couple other things popped into my mind regarding transplants. Drier is always better than wet, and seedlings don't need a huge amount of fertilizer.

Once the plants have several sets of true leaves, I fertilize once every 7-10 waterings with a dilute (~1tsp/gallon) of a balanced fertilizer. I use a 20-20-20 with micro nutrients. I like to water everyday lightly rather than saturate the soil and not have to water for several days.

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## Mike Hill

Kyle, know you are in the woods, but not sure if you have some modicum of light here and there. I usually start in cold frames because I have too many things around that like to eat seedlings, don't have any room for a lighting setup, and *most importantly*, the wife says we are *not* having plants inside the house. In winter, I'll use heating pads and in the summer, I vent them. For a small number of seedlings (say one flat), I'll buy a transparent, clear storage tub from a big box, and turn it upside down over the flat. Does pretty well with cutting propagation also, especially when set up with a misting system. Got a bunch of mums under a couple of the tubs right now. Just took some rosemary and dahlia cuttings out from under one. Those don't need misting. Got some trees I want to propagate later, and will have to set up the mist system for that and/or possibly even the heat pads if I don't get around to it until fall.

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## Trob115

Picked about a 5 gallon bucket full of cucumbers, and enough zucchini to feed a small army. I also managed to grab about 3 gallons of tomatoes. We haven't had hardly any rain, so I've been surprised with how well my garden has been doing this year. We got our first measurable rain in almost a month yesterday. My okra is finally coming along and starting to produce. You know it's dry when okra wilts!

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## Mike Hill

Trob115 said:


> You know it's dry when okra wilts!


About 2 weeks ago, I was thinking the same thing! There is a church down the way, that grows food and gives it to food pantries and such. Been doing it for years now. They grow tons. It's quite the production! Have two big greenhouses for only tomatoes, and another smaller one for seed starting. Even did a heavily insulated cool room to store some of the harvest that didn't get picked up right away. They typically don't plant okra, but where they used to grow the tomatoes in the beds, they've been planting okra. Used to help them out more than I do now, but stopped by a couple of weeks ago and the okra was wilted - they had taken the irrigation out of that section. At that time had not had a rain for over a month also. Dropped by again this past Saturday - after several days of showers, and boy, the okra looked great. The tomato greenhouses were outta bounds - tresses of tomatoes - row after row! They had originally asked me to do an orchard plan for them. I did one that was part demonstration orchard, but largely production oriented. All types of differing ways of growing different fruit for small spaces = dense plantings and harvesting without the use of ladders...etc.... And the growing of fruit not normally grown around here. Even had a group of people who would furnish some of the materials and plants and would work it. Well somebody's BIL grows blueberries and he gave them a few blueberry bushes and they planted them instead. Kinda ticked me off!

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## sprucegum

More peas, got a heaping 5 gallon pail full this morning. Fingers cramped up about half way through shelling them, a little hydration and a break cured that. Shelled out a 4 quart colander so a pint for supper and 7 for the freezer.

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## Mike Hill

sprucegum said:


> More peas, got a heaping 5 gallon pail full this morning. Fingers cramped up about half way through shelling them, a little hydration and a break cured that. Shelled out a 4 quart colander so a pint for supper and 7 for the freezer.View attachment 229253


Man, that's a purdy sight!


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## Herb G.

Mike Hill said:


> Mike Hill uttered thusly: There is a church down the way, that grows food They typically don't plant okra, but where they used to grow the tomatoes in the beds, they've been planting okra.


I grew okra one year & I'll never grow it again. I had to go out of town for 2 weeks & when I got back, it was the size of bananas, and full of snot even after it was battered & fried. I guess you have to be raised on that stuff.

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## Mike Hill

You say okra snot like it's a bad thang! Gotta be resplendent with that Southern Twwaaaangg! and know how to correctly spell and use the term y'all! and have a van back seat on the front porch where you watch the cars go by while sipp'n outta your mason jar! and I'd say something about having a snowman made of a stack of used tires painted white - but I've heard that they had those in Colorado also!

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## trc65

sprucegum said:


> More peas, got a heaping 5 gallon pail full this morning. Fingers cramped up about half way through shelling them, a little hydration and a break cured that. Shelled out a 4 quart colander so a pint for supper and 7 for the freezer.View attachment 229253


Beautiful crop of peas! What variety is that? I've only grown 'bush' peas, would love to have some climbers to make it easier to pick.

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## djg

trc65 said:


> Beautiful crop of peas! What variety is that? I've only grown 'bush' peas, would love to have some climbers to make it easier to pick.


Ditto! How long of rows? I just can't comprehend 5 gallon bucket full of peas.


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## 2feathers Creative Making

Trob115 said:


> Picked about a 5 gallon bucket full of cucumbers, and enough zucchini to feed a small army. I also managed to grab about 3 gallons of tomatoes. We haven't had hardly any rain, so I've been surprised with how well my garden has been doing this year. We got our first measurable rain in almost a month yesterday. My okra is finally coming along and starting to produce. You know it's dry when okra wilts!


I have a puny garden right now but a few years back we grew wheel barrows full of zucchini. The neighbors would lock their car doors! I am telling you it was way too much for a family of four. We finally settled on pickled. Zucchini picked young, makes an awesome pickle by the way. Had friends ask for that. Never did ask for the straight zucchini....

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## sprucegum

trc65 said:


> Beautiful crop of peas! What variety is that? I've only grown 'bush' peas, would love to have some climbers to make it easier to pick.


They are alderman AKA telephone pole peas. Very old open pollinated variety, I let some ripen for next year's seed. I plant a bit over a half pound in two rows spaced about 8" apart and 50' long. Two closely spaced rows one trellis  . I've grown other varieties that are probably better but I like to look at them when they go over the top of a 6' trellis

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## sprucegum

2feathers Creative Making said:


> I have a puny garden right now but a few years back we grew wheel barrows full of zucchini. The neighbors would lock their car doors! I am telling you it was way too much for a family of four. We finally settled on pickled. Zucchini picked young, makes an awesome pickle by the way. Had friends ask for that. Never did ask for the straight zucchini....


Zucchini makes great bread and butter pickles

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## JerseyHighlander

sprucegum said:


> More peas, got a heaping 5 gallon pail full this morning. Fingers cramped up about half way through shelling them, a little hydration and a break cured that. Shelled out a 4 quart colander so a pint for supper and 7 for the freezer.View attachment 229253


Man I don't know what my peas aren't/weren't getting but they didn't look anywhere near that happy. Think I started them too late and then everything in creation has been trying to munch on them all along the way. That picture just belongs on the cover of a gardening magazine.

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## JerseyHighlander

2feathers Creative Making said:


> Rotational and successive crops go in the ground for me, I tend to pull my early lettuce and salad greens and plant things like parsley. When my spring turnips come out I planted onions. When I dug my potatoes I planted my second batch of bush beans. I am considering a second potato crop when I finish my carrot and broccoli harvest. Here in the warmer parts we have the luxury of waiting. That being said, a grow light can help, also, you might try taking them outdoors and planting them in a starter bed similar to a cold frame where you can keep the seed eating buggers away. That way they are acclimated to the weather and sunlight in your garden instead of your house.





trc65 said:


> I start about 25 flats of seedlings each year. Flowers, Cole crops, onions, celery, peppers, tomatoes, pumpkins, gourds and squash, etc. Only time I buy a plant for the garden is if I need a variety of pepper or something that didn't germinate well or I forgot to order seed for.
> 
> Everything is started in my basement and lives there until it's warm enough to go out in a coldframe. I will start some flowers the first week of February, and continually plant more up until about mid May. I'll start again in another week or two with fall Cole crops and Chinese cabbage for my kimchi.
> 
> Been doing this for 15+ years. Started with T12 fluorescent lights. Moved to T8 and now am using LED shop lights of at least 5000k. Stay away from anything in the 3500k to 4000k spectrum, those have too much red light. Blue light is what you want for seedlings. Cool temps are also important after germination, really don't want anything over 60-65° for vegetative growth. Keep the lights close to the plants (3-4”) and keep them on for 16hours a day.
> 
> Expensive full spectrum LED lights are not needed for growing transplants. The only reason for using those is if you are planning on growing a plant to maturity under lights.
> 
> I think somewhere in this thread I posted pictures of my racks that are made from 3/4" pvc. The main rack has three shelves that each hold four 1020 flats. I am currently using 3-4' LED lights per shelf. I used to use only two lights per shelf with fluorescent lights, but the LED Lights are so narrow anymore, I moved to three.
> 
> In summary, cool temps, 5000k LED shop lights for 16 hrs a day.
> 
> Im assuming the light you ordered is a full spectrum "grow light" if so I'd highly recommend returning it if you can and pick up some $20 LED shop lights. Pair that with $20 or so in PVC pipe and fittings and you'll be on the way. For under $100 you could probably put together a two shelf system for up to 8 flats.
> 
> Edit: There are a couple pictures of my setup on the first page of this thread.



All helpful stuff, thanks. 
I wasn't intending to still be in this house/state this spring so the decision to brush the cobwebs off the garden was kinda spur of the moment, though I did get started fairly early but mostly by buying starts from a farmer at the local farmers market. Then had to get it in my head to trash all my old seed and get good fresh stuff. Even then, virtually everything I direct sowed just disappeared overnight. It's like trying to garden through the seven plagues of Egypt here. Managed to get some beets and a couple heirloom tomatoes to take and survive the critters but the beets have just been sucking wind like crazy, just didn't get a solid start and have struggled ever since. Couple heirloom pumpkins I direct sowed & thought were gone finally sprouted over a month later, I guess when the soil finally got hot enough. One of the few things doing really well now, protected by an electric fence in with the broccoli and tomatoes. 

I am coming to terms that I need to stop drowning the seedlings and such but I'm convinced the grow lights are a necessity for me on several levels. Right now it's just too hot out and with lights I can start stuff in the basement where the plagues of pestilence can't get to it and I can control the temps and the light. I started some asian spinach/Tatsoi last week. It germinates fast but within two days the sprouts were three inches long and thin as a thread. I'm hoping the light will convince them to put growth into leaves and build a stem that will support a healthy plant. I also got a heat mat for starting certain seeds along with a very different way of sowing/starting them and so far that is working out really well. 

Interesting that shop lights of the right spectrum will work but I'm going to at give this full blown grow light a shot. Once I don't need it for seedlings I have seeds for a rare & highly medicinal creeping cactus that is not at all at home in my zone and needs a good bit of TLC to get it to grow. Some other temperate climate medicinals as well that have been impossible to manage in the forest shade.



Mike Hill said:


> Kyle, know you are in the woods, but not sure if you have some modicum of light here and there. I usually start in cold frames because I have too many things around that like to eat seedlings, don't have any room for a lighting setup, and *most importantly*, the wife says we are *not* having plants inside the house. In winter, I'll use heating pads and in the summer, I vent them. For a small number of seedlings (say one flat), I'll buy a transparent, clear storage tub from a big box, and turn it upside down over the flat. Does pretty well with cutting propagation also, especially when set up with a misting system. Got a bunch of mums under a couple of the tubs right now. Just took some rosemary and dahlia cuttings out from under one. Those don't need misting. Got some trees I want to propagate later, and will have to set up the mist system for that and/or possibly even the heat pads if I don't get around to it until fall.



Mike the idea for the clear storage tub is genius... Wish I had that in place yesterday when the sky opened up with a surprise rain and pummeled a tray of summer lettuce starts into oblivion. Cold frames are definitely on the agenda for the new house along with a greenhouse/hoophouse or high tunnel of some kind.

Life was so much easier when I just shelled out the cash for my share in a CSA and let people who know what they're doing grow my produce.

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## djg

Tomorrow will be my fourth attempt at planting beans. Garden has dried up just right to run the tiller through the garden and I plant the seeds shallow, water and mulch. Daily watering in this heat until they come up. I normally plant Blue Lake Stringless Pole beans but Wally World and the local farm store had done away with their seeds. Found Kentucky Wonder beans at Home Depot. Bought Burpee this time instead of the farm store brand (NK?). Don't know anything about them. Hope they're stringless too.

I plant a small patch of cucumbers, mainly to give away to family. But I do try to can a few jars every year. This year I planted Pickle Busk (NK brand?). I try not to let them get any longer than six inches. They seem mature because they are around 2-1/2" dia. and no yellow spots. But when I cut them open, they're a little green on the inside around the rind. This is ready to pick this variety?


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## trc65

Rather than daily watering the bean seed, give it a good soaking after planting and then leave them for a few days. Dig a little bit beside the row after a day or two to test moisture. Too much water on untreated bean seed will promote rapid development of seedling disease. In spite of the heat, they really don't need a huge amount of moisture as long as the soil isn't dry as powder. 

Cukes can be harvested almost any time depending on what size you want. There really is no incorrect time to harvest.

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## Mike Hill

To honor my Mom. Her favorite flower was the sweet pea (well also the bluebonnet) - her mom would have hordes of them growing along her fence. Easy Peasy. Except here in Nashville. Get them in ground too early, they rot, get them in the ground too late and it gets hot before they flower. Or at least that is my excuse and I'm sticking to it. Well with Mom's passing this spring, I was bound and determined for some sweet peas. Got them in the ground later than I probably could have, but I babied them and did have a few blooms this year. Likely the only ones I'll get, their sister plants have already either been eaten to the ground, or have succumbed to the heat. For you Mom - not much, but they are for you!

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## Eric Rorabaugh

Those are beautiful. What a tribute. Even though you got them in the ground a little later, she was helping you take care of them!

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## JerseyHighlander

Mike Hill said:


> To honor my Mom. Her favorite flower was the sweet pea (well also the bluebonnet) - her mom would have hordes of them growing along her fence. Easy Peasy. Except here in Nashville. Get them in ground too early, they rot, get them in the ground too late and it gets hot before they flower. Or at least that is my excuse and I'm sticking to it. Well with Mom's passing this spring, I was bound and determined for some sweet peas. Got them in the ground later than I probably could have, but I babied them and did have a few blooms this year. Likely the only ones I'll get, their sister plants have already either been eaten to the ground, or have succumbed to the heat. For you Mom - not much, but they are for you!
> 
> View attachment 229320View attachment 229321


Flowers are as beautiful as the sentiment.

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## trc65

Started pulling onions today. Got about half pulled and will get the rest tomorrow. Will let them bake and dry in the sun for a day or two before moving them into the shed to finish drying and curing.

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## djg

Wow!

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## Nature Man

trc65 said:


> Started pulling onions today. Got about half pulled and will get the rest tomorrow. Will let them bake and dry in the sun for a day or two before moving them into the shed to finish drying and curing.
> 
> View attachment 229374


How long do you recommend drying & curing? Chuck


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## JerseyHighlander

That's a sweet haul.

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## trc65

I'll handle these a lot like the garlic. They'll sit in the machine shed until fall and then I'll top them and bring them in to cool storage in bottom of stairs in the garage.

The important thing with onions is to let them dry completely and form a nice brown skin. Also very important to leave the tops intact during this time. If you remove the tops before everything is completely dry it opens up the interior to air, moisture and results in breakdown of the onion.

Probably a month to six weeks before they would be ready to top.

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## sprucegum

Have you ever left t tops on and braided them together when dry? Don't know that it's a better way to store them but it looks cool

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## trc65

I did do that once or twice years ago, now they just get put in a 5 gal bucket with air holes drilled in it.

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## JerseyHighlander

So in my attempt to resolve my inability to plant a seed and have it become living plant I went looking to youtube for info and in the process found something very different, soil block makers. The video below explains all the details really well. I was able to pick up the two different sizes for a reasonable price.










Place I got the soil blockers from didn't carry mesh bottom trays and I hate plastic anyway so just made my own with Spruce furring strips and hardware cloth. Not only gives good ventilation to help resolve my problem of keeping them too wet, I can bottom water them by just immersing them in a tub for a few seconds. So far seems to be working out well. I'm getting good, fast germination and most of all, survival. The wire mesh bottom also works well for seeds I want to start on the heat mat. 

Grow light came yesterday. It's very high quality, made in the USA, 5 year warranty. The seedlings seem to like it, some of the lettuce I thought was destroyed by the rain have perked up and are looking good already.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

JerseyHighlander said:


> So in my attempt to resolve my inability to plant a seed and have it become living plant I went looking to youtube for info and in the process found something very different, soil block makers. The video below explains all the details really well. I was able to pick up the two different sizes for a reasonable price.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 229399
> 
> Place I got the soil blockers from didn't carry mesh bottom trays and I hate plastic anyway so just made my own with Spruce furring strips and hardware cloth. Not only gives good ventilation to help resolve my problem of keeping them too wet, I can bottom water them by just immersing them in a tub for a few seconds. So far seems to be working out well. I'm getting good, fast germination and most of all, survival. The wire mesh bottom also works well for seeds I want to start on the heat mat.
> 
> Grow light came yesterday. It's very high quality, made in the USA, 5 year warranty. The seedlings seem to like it, some of the lettuce I thought was destroyed by the rain have perked up and are looking good already.


When bottom watering, have you thought of using strips of waste blue Jean material dropped into the water to wick the appropriate amount into the soil? If you look at the plants in most hardware stores, they have a similar method to keep from top watering their more expensive plants.

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## JerseyHighlander

2feathers Creative Making said:


> When bottom watering, have you thought of using strips of waste blue Jean material dropped into the water to wick the appropriate amount into the soil? If you look at the plants in most hardware stores, they have a similar method to keep from top watering their more expensive plants.


I'm not certain what you mean but no, no material involved. With the seedlings, the wire mesh bottomed trays are bought to a water tub once a day or every other day, partially immersed for a few seconds or so and removed before the top gets saturated. Before germination/sprouting I'm keeping them wet/damp twice a day. So far it's working. 

I used to have a system I purchased years ago like you say, with a wicking material under the soil cells, the ends of the material were draped over a platform and into a tray of water. Kept the soil wet constantly and all the seedlings rotted at the soil line. If anything lived, the roots grew and embedded into the wicking material causing grief. I probably wasn't using it right but it was just too much of a contraption in the end. 

Having moved everything inside the basement with the light just about this time yesterday, I'm already really encouraged with the results.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

JerseyHighlander said:


> I'm not certain what you mean but no, no material involved. With the seedlings, the wire mesh bottomed trays are bought to a water tub once a day or every other day, partially immersed for a few seconds or so and removed before the top gets saturated. Before germination/sprouting I'm keeping them wet/damp twice a day. So far it's working.
> 
> I used to have a system I purchased years ago like you say, with a wicking material under the soil cells, the ends of the material were draped over a platform and into a tray of water. Kept the soil wet constantly and all the seedlings rotted at the soil line. If anything lived, the roots grew and embedded into the wicking material causing grief. I probably wasn't using it right but it was just too much of a contraption in the end.
> 
> Having moved everything inside the basement with the light just about this time yesterday, I'm already really encouraged with the results.


I planted my late beans last week, they are coming up in their rows this weekend.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Something not everyone has in their garden

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## JerseyHighlander

Looks vaguely familiar but I can't place it. 

I wish I could but virtually nothing I direct sow in my garden does well, if the seeds even survive at all. Beets I direct sowed over two months ago are still languishing, hardly gone anywhere. Meanwhile transplanted tomatoes and broccoli are doing really well. 

Another factor is that I have so little garden space here that if I can start inside and have things well established, I've got something ready to go in the ground as soon as omething else has run it's course. By the time it's cool enough to start spinach again, I'll have well established spinach ready to go in the ground and at a size where my lack of sun won't be such a factor.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

We called it ground cherry. I have seen the seed but these are volunteers. Not too sure where from. The birds musta helped me there

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## 2feathers Creative Making

JerseyHighlander said:


> Another factor is that I have so little garden space here that if I can start inside and have things well established, I've got something ready to go in the ground as soon as omething else has run it's course. By the time it's cool enough to start spinach again, I'll have well established spinach ready to go in the ground and at a size where my lack of sun won't be such a factor.


I feel you on garden size. Mine is considered a flowerbed in most gardening circles. 16 x 16 plus about that much area of container gardens. My soil is one spade deep. I can stand on bedrock when digging out potatoes...

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## JerseyHighlander

2feathers Creative Making said:


> I feel you on garden size. Mine is considered a flowerbed in most gardening circles. 16 x 16 plus about that much area of container gardens. My soil is one spade deep. I can stand on bedrock when digging out potatoes...


My yard is a mix of bedrock sticking out of the ground, boulder fields on the hillside and rootbound shallow glacial till. The garden exists because I yanked boulders from the ground and used the to build walls and teir the hill. Good rich forest soil though. 

Mrs Highlander came home from an estate sale with a box of awesome today. Little pricey, but still awesome.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

JerseyHighlander said:


> My yard is a mix of bedrock sticking out of the ground, boulder fields on the hillside and rootbound shallow glacial till. The garden exists because I yanked boulders from the ground and used the to build walls and teir the hill. Good rich forest soil though.
> 
> Mrs Highlander came home from an estate sale with a box of awesome today. Little pricey, but still awesome.
> 
> View attachment 229428


You find the rubber rings for those yet? I saw a few a couple years back.


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## Mike Hill

2feathers Creative Making said:


> Something not everyone has in their gardenView attachment 229421View attachment 229422View attachment 229423View attachment 229424


First pic - I thought Patchouli. And I was about to be envious- I could not find any this year. Yes, even though he grew up I the "Age of Aquarius he didn't grow up to be no hippie. But he did/does like patchouli. Probably has to do with some pretty girl wearing it!

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## Sprung

We were out of town all last week and came back to find an explosion of growth - so much doubled in size while we were gone. Last night my wife picked a good handful of strawberries. Today we've got some butter lettuce, corn salad, and maybe a little broccoli to harvest. Some weeds to pull. Some squash and cucumbers to train up the trellis.

Before we left we harvested a bowl full of sugar snap and snow peas, which we blanched and froze. We pulled the plants before we left because we wouldn't be here to tend to them, plus needed the space to plant something else.

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## JerseyHighlander

2feathers Creative Making said:


> You find the rubber rings for those yet? I saw a few a couple years back.


I already have two boxes here, I've been using that style for years with my herbs. You can get them all at Lehmans Hardware. 

https://www.lehmans.com/category/jar-lids-and-bands

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## sprucegum

We started out using a few of those in the 70's but the seals became hard to find. They are great for decorating and storage for dried beans and such.


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## Sprung

Ok, not in our garden, but we did the picking. Today was our annual trip to one of the orchards in Door County to pick cherries. 15 quarts of Balaton Tarts - we like them a little better than Montmorency Tarts.

I'll be busy tonight. Need to pit them all. These will get made into pie filling, maraschino style cherries, and bounce. I'll probably dehydrate a small amount to see if I have any success with that. The pits will become cherry pit syrup. We still have a good supply of cherry jam and cherry bbq sauce on the shelf, so no need to make either this year. If we run out of bbq sauce (the most likely thing we'd run out of), we still have a few smaller packages of cherries from last year vacuum sealed in the freezer.

We also grabbed a couple quarts of yellow sweet cherries. It's the end of sweet cherry season and they've got the lift out and are picking the tops of the trees for what's left. I don't know what specific variety they are, but they are wonderfully sweet and tart. These will be eaten and gone within the next day or two.

And last weekend members of my church made their annual trip to Michigan for blueberries. They are good friends with the people they get them from, so they are always told when to come to get the very best blueberries of the season. They've got 30lbs in their freezer for us, waiting for us to pick them up sometime this week.

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## Nature Man

Sprung said:


> Ok, not in our garden, but we did the picking. Today was our annual trip to one of the orchards in Door County to pick cherries. 15 quarts of Balaton Tarts - we like them a little better than Montmorency Tarts.
> 
> I'll be busy tonight. Need to pit them all. These will get made into pie filling, maraschino style cherries, and bounce. I'll probably dehydrate a small amount to see if I have any success with that. The pits will become cherry pit syrup. We still have a good supply of cherry jam and cherry bbq sauce on the shelf, so no need to make either this year. If we run out of bbq sauce (the most likely thing we'd run out of), we still have a few smaller packages of cherries from last year vacuum sealed in the freezer.
> 
> We also grabbed a couple quarts of yellow sweet cherries. It's the end of sweet cherry season and they've got the lift out and are picking the tops of the trees for what's left. I don't know what specific variety they are, but they are wonderfully sweet and tart. These will be eaten and gone within the next day or two.
> 
> And last weekend members of my church made their annual trip to Michigan for blueberries. They are good friends with the people they get them from, so they are always told when to come to get the very best blueberries of the season. They've got 30lbs in their freezer for us, waiting for us to pick them up sometime this week.
> 
> View attachment 229464


Those look delicious!!! Perfect coloring! Wow! Chuck

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## Sprung

We got all the cherries pitted. We could've paid the orchard to pit them for us, but we wanted the pits for cherry pit syrup - which is now underway in the fridge.

If you're ever in need of a good pitter capable of quickly pitting a lot of cherries, we really like this one. I can do about 15 quarts of cherries in roughly an hour, give or take. My wife does it in about double the time. If the boys get involved, multiply the time by about 5 or 6. But that's ok - the boys are helping and learning. Can't expect them to learn and get up to speed if they don't ever get the chance to start using it.

I got about 2/3 of the pitting done, then my wife and boys took over while I started working on getting things going.

8 pints of cherries in syrup - the boys like maraschino cherries and this will be better than cherries swimming in red #40.





And got bounce started - about 1 cup cherries, 1/3 cup sugar (we've previously done 1/2 cup, but wanted to cut back the sweetness a bit), and fill up the rest of the quart jar with your booze of choice. We like brandy, bourbon, and rum. Vodka is another option. We did 4 quarts with brandy and 4 quarts with bourbon. Not as much as last year, but we've still got plenty of last year's on the shelf. We did one of each with some lemon peel to see what that does with the flavor.





Measured out what I need to make and can pie filling and have that in the fridge. I will do that tomorrow. Have a few cups of cherries in the dehydrator to see how that goes for us. And have a small sheet tray of cherries in the freezer that I will put in a foodsaver bag and vacuum seal - a little extra on hand in case I need to make more bbq sauce or if I want to toss some in with a batch of mead.

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## JerseyHighlander

I always thought those cherries were that color from some kind of dye. Never imagined they actually grew that color.

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## JerseyHighlander

So far, I'm extatic with the change from using the grow light. Instead of becomeing a six inch long thread, the plants are producing true leaves and a stouter stem and quickly. 

This is one of the Romaine Lettuce that got pummelled by the rain but managed to survive. First pic is as it was when I put it under the light on Friday night. Each pic following is roughly 24 hours later.

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## Sprung

JerseyHighlander said:


> I always thought those cherries were that color from some kind of dye. Never imagined they actually grew that color.



Depends on the variety. Montmorency Tarts, which is what many commonly use and is what we've picked a lot of the last two years, lose their color pretty easily, so there's a lot of food coloring or dye used. I've seen plenty of canning recipes that use tart cherries call for food coloring as an optional ingredient. And certainly it's used a lot in commercial applications - otherwise you won't get that "cherry color" that most want, when it's really mostly red #40. Even the fancy jarred cherries that don't use food coloring often use something like beet juice concentrate to color their cherries.

This year we only picked Balaton Tarts, which are darker and deeper in color and hold their color nicely. We like the Balatons not just because they hold their color better, but they are a touch sweeter than the Montmorencys and we like the flavor a little better. But, really, both are good cherries. Balatons don't seem to be so common - only a few orchards around us growing a smaller amount. Montmorencys abound everywhere.

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## Sprung

I didn't get a chance to can pie filling last night, but will do so tonight. We still have one or two jars left from last year and it'll be interesting to see how the color compares - last year I used Montmorencys in the pie filling and this year I'm using Balatons. I'll post a comparison pic.


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## Sprung

Did a little work in the beds this morning - especially trying to get some squash and cucumbers up on their trellises - and had a little bit to harvest. Some garlic scapes, broccoli, and strawberries. For as much space as the broccoli plants took up, we didn't get a whole lot of broccoli from them. But we'll enjoy what we got. Going to make pesto with the garlic scapes - got basil growing too and more scapes to come.





And here's a view of our garden beds from my office window the other night. Pic was taken after it had finished raining and the sky was absolutely beautiful that night. Between that evening rainfall and more during the night, we got about 2.5" of very welcome rain. While we have overall had less rain than normal, we are very fortunate to at least be getting some rain.

Please don't mind the grass... Someone (not me) sprayed our lawn and the church lawn for weeds in early June. And they accidentally sprayed glyphosate instead. Yeah... They started to reseed it, but it's been so hot and dry. What we've got growing now is all weeds and weedy grass. In late August or early September they plan to address the lawn situation, when it's not so hot and we hopefully are getting more rain.

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## Sprung

14 pints of cherry pie filling last night. The jar on the left is from this year's batch. The right is last years. I used a different recipe this year. Last year I used this recipe from Ball. This year I used this recipe from the National Center for Home Food Preservation. You can see the color difference in the pic, but it's even more noticeable in person. Last year I used Montmorencys and this year I used Balatons - and this year's has a lot more color, even with using water as the liquid instead of the cherry juice the Ball recipe calls for. I used no food coloring in either of them.





Speaking of the NCHFP, I've had great results from the recipes I've done from them. Last year, so that I don't have to look canning recipes up on the website all the time, I bought the USDA Canning Guide, which is the canning portion of the website in print form. It has been well worth the money spent.

Also, this morning we picked our very first beans of the year, plus our first two peppers - a couple Shishito peppers, which is our favorite pepper. Checking other things in the garden, we have some tomatoes just starting to form, some cucumbers just starting as well, and the brussel sprout seeds I planted are starting to pop up - really hoping I got the brussel spout seeds in the ground in time for a harvest this fall.

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## sprucegum

My peas are done. I could have gotten a few more but I'm sick of picking and shelling. We have what we want in the freezer so I gave them one last picking and pulled the vines, except for a small section that I left to ripen for seed. String beans are ready and looking good. Last year we had enough but no extra. My wife likes a bumper crop so she can get them canned in a couple of big batches. Hopefully enough for some dilly beans too. Going to plant some sugar snap peas in a day or two in hopes of a September crop.

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## Nature Man

Sprung said:


> 14 pints of cherry pie filling last night. The jar on the left is from this year's batch. The right is last years. I used a different recipe this year. Last year I used this recipe from Ball. This year I used this recipe from the National Center for Home Food Preservation. You can see the color difference in the pic, but it's even more noticeable in person. Last year I used Montmorencys and this year I used Balatons - and this year's has a lot more color, even with using water as the liquid instead of the cherry juice the Ball recipe calls for. I used no food coloring in either of them.
> 
> View attachment 229609
> 
> Speaking of the NCHFP, I've had great results from the recipes I've done from them. Last year, so that I don't have to look canning recipes up on the website all the time, I bought the USDA Canning Guide, which is the canning portion of the website in print form. It has been well worth the money spent.
> 
> Also, this morning we picked our very first beans of the year, plus our first two peppers - a couple Shishito peppers, which is our favorite pepper. Checking other things in the garden, we have some tomatoes just starting to form, some cucumbers just starting as well, and the brussel sprout seeds I planted are starting to pop up - really hoping I got the brussel spout seeds in the ground in time for a harvest this fall.
> 
> View attachment 229608


Please provide a side-by-side comparison of the 2 different batches of canned cherries, when able. Thanks! Chuck


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## JerseyHighlander

Sprung said:


> Did a little work in the beds this morning - especially trying to get some squash and cucumbers up on their trellises - and had a little bit to harvest. Some garlic scapes, broccoli, and strawberries. For as much space as the broccoli plants took up, we didn't get a whole lot of broccoli from them. But we'll enjoy what we got. Going to make pesto with the garlic scapes - got basil growing too and more scapes to come.
> 
> View attachment 229575
> 
> And here's a view of our garden beds from my office window the other night. Pic was taken after it had finished raining and the sky was absolutely beautiful that night. Between that evening rainfall and more during the night, we got about 2.5" of very welcome rain. While we have overall had less rain than normal, we are very fortunate to at least be getting some rain.
> 
> Please don't mind the grass... Someone (not me) sprayed our lawn and the church lawn for weeds in early June. And they accidentally sprayed glyphosate instead. Yeah... They started to reseed it, but it's been so hot and dry. What we've got growing now is all weeds and weedy grass. In late August or early September they plan to address the lawn situation, when it's not so hot and we hopefully are getting more rain.
> 
> View attachment 229576


I've recently discovered a few things about broccoli that have had a significant impact for me. A proffesional market gardener who is fortunate to live near the ocean where he gets seaweed for fertlizer, said he was told long ago, try to kill your broccoli with salt... you'll get the best broccoli ever. Epsom salt, being part magnesium which broccoli requires substantial amounts of is a great choice but the other is Borax. Borax is a salt of boron, another nutrient broccoli and beets require increased amounts of. Huge difference.

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## Sprung

JerseyHighlander said:


> I've recently discovered a few things about broccoli that have had a significant impact for me. A proffesional market gardener who is fortunate to live near the ocean where he gets seaweed for fertlizer, said he was told long ago, try to kill your broccoli with salt... you'll get the best broccoli ever. Epsom salt, being part magnesium which broccoli requires substantial amounts of is a great choice but the other is Borax. Borax is a salt of boron, another nutrient broccoli and beets require increased amounts of. Huge difference.



Very interesting! Might have to give that a try!



Nature Man said:


> Please provide a side-by-side comparison of the 2 different batches of canned cherries, when able. Thanks! Chuck



Already did - comparison of the pie filling was in my post. This is the first year I've canned cherries in syrup, so no previous years to compare with.


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## Nature Man

Sprung said:


> Very interesting! Might have to give that a try!
> 
> 
> 
> Already did - comparison of the pie filling was in my post. This is the first year I've canned cherries in syrup, so no previous years to compare with.


Sorry, I meant taste, not looks…. Chuck


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## Sprung

Nature Man said:


> Sorry, I meant taste, not looks…. Chuck



Had a small spoonful left after filling jars - tasted good. This year's probably a little better than last year's.

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## Mike Hill

Those Balaton Tarts fascinate me! The only tarts we have ever gotten were from up in Horse Cave, KY. Friends of ours, now too old to care for the trees, would invite us up when their "sour cherries" were ripe. No idea what variety, but definitely not Balaton Tarts. They only had 4 or 5 trees, but boy they were good. He also had some pretty good peaches, but more often than not, we were too late in the season when we got there. She would have already made some peach preserves and we'd go back home with a consolation prize!!!

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## sprucegum

Well I figured we are at the point of no return. Too late to plant most things so what you see is what you got. Peas were great, string beans starting today, digging potatoes as we need them, corn soon. Everything else varies from struggling to great.

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## djg

sprucegum said:


> Well I figured we are at the point of no return. Too late to plant most things so what you see is what you got. Peas were great, string beans starting today, digging potatoes as we need them, corn soon. Everything else varies from struggling to great.View attachment 229644


Looks good. I wish I had squash, but my plants died before producing. Is that an electric fence around the garden? Keeps deer out?


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## sprucegum

djg said:


> Looks good. I wish I had squash, but my plants died before producing. Is that an electric fence around the garden? Keeps deer out?


My squash struggled through the may-june drought we had. I fertilized and mulched them, I think I will get some but not a great crop. The deer have not bothered since we built the house. I put the electric fence up this week because the corn is getting close, I did a low wire for the racoons and skunks. The high wire is because a bear has been bothering the neighbors garbage, and it tried my chicken coop last week.

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## JerseyHighlander

sprucegum said:


> Well I figured we are at the point of no return. Too late to plant most things so what you see is what you got. Peas were great, string beans starting today, digging potatoes as we need them, corn soon. Everything else varies from struggling to great.View attachment 229644


Ever try Tatsoi (Asian Spinach)? You can keep planting it into September and still harvest it out of the snow into December. Add row covers or a cold frame and you can go through January with fresh greens. 
I got my seed from Fruition seeds in NY. It's been raised for the cold northern climate in the Finger Lakes. My seeds sprouted in less than 24 hours on a heat mat inside.

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## sprucegum

Spinach is one vegetable that we just buy canned or frozen at the store. I've grown it but we never end up using much before it bolts. We eat quite a few beet greens and some swiss chard, we buy a couple cans of spinach a year for spinach artichoke dip around the holidays.


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## trc65

Not a lot happening in my garden for another week or so when the first sweet corn variety will be ready. Have some early cabbage sitting in the fridge waiting to be turned into some Kimchi and am eating tomatoes every day.

Here are some pics of my garden area. Those are green and Lima beans on the cattle panels with a row of baby limas next to them.








Picture from the other side. Fruit trees and pumpkins are on the right side of the picture behind the shed. The row of brown in the foreground will be my new red raspberry bed.

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## sprucegum

That's a serious vegetable patch . Makes me think of an old guy that used to stop by my house because he knew I would share. He usually would open with something like " you ain't never gonna eat all them carrots".

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## trc65

We do a lot of sharing too. Two sisters live in town and although they have small gardens, don't have the variety of things I can produce. It's way more than we actually use, but always plant lots since we have the space. In addition to what's in these pictures, I have three other areas for pumpkins and gourds.

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## Nature Man

Is the big red building your workshop/greenhouse? Chuck


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## trc65

No greenhouse, it's just an old Morton building with a dirt floor. My "woodshop" is just in a corner of it. Lots of storage, some old farm equipment, metal bench with arc welder and torch. Someday would like to partition some of it off, pour a floor and add heat/ac. Right now it's completely open inside and very dusty/dirty.

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## Sprung

Yup, Tim, you've got yourself a real nice and big garden area there. And a real nice piece of land and building too.

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## JerseyHighlander

That is definitely a sweet little veggy patch there... Always good to grow enough to share.

My father grew copious amounts of tomatoes and cucumbers in our little postage stamp yard but always far more than we could use. Never did preserve anything, his thing was putting up meat in the freezers. All the neighbors got tomatoes and cukes all summer long. If we went fishing and had a good haul, dad knocked on the neighbors doors with fish or crabs, just the way he was. Anybody can show up at your house with something they bought at the store on the way over but food you grew, hunted or fished was a gift from the heart.

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## Mike Hill

Man Tim - could I borrow that little bldg with the two window behind your garden for Lil Mikey's shop? Seriouisly - that is a sweet, sweet garden. You cannot imagine how much I want to have that much sun and room to grow veggies - AND fruit! It appears that I have more of a fight with critters for what I can grow this year. All pears are gone before they even got 1/2 grown. All the paw-paws are gone. All the persimmons have been raided even before they started expanding much. Now the figs are disappearing - especially on a white fig that they have not touched before. I will leave some on one more day to get ripe enough to enjoy and - POOF - they be gone. Maybe I'll pick them early and soak em in sugar syrup or sumthing. The pineberries and alpine strawberries are gone as soon as they set. And this year I am getting strange die off. Probably planted 30 asiatic lilies - only one growing, and it don't look all that good. Planted probably 30 oriental lilies and may be 10-12 emerged, and then died except one. Annual Vinca always does well in a front bed - I usually plant 3 trays or more. This year could only find one tray and all were growing well and then 1/3 wilted and died - mainly in one small area. All my zinnias have died, even the volunteers. Growing well, and then poof. 2 of 3 lavender - brown and gone. 3 of the mums are dead and 3 are not looking so good - luckily I have cuttings growing, but may be too late for flowering. Growing good - then poof. 4 of the first 6 tomatoes are gone - know why - a rabbit that has mysteriously disappeared! As well as the 4 peppers set out. 2 of the peppers they just ate the leaves and I was bringing them back and they were looking good. I planted 6 more jalapenos and 4 mystery tomatoes (I got them from a recycle place and they looked sad, but nursed them back) and 6 volunteer tomatoes from another part of the yard - they are marble sized but good tasting. All transplanted well and were actively growing then Poof - ALL the peppers have wilted and died - and all but one of the volunteer tomatoes. However, all the mystery ones are growing well and setting fruit. Go figure! I can't! Not crying or nuthen!

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## JerseyHighlander

Mike Hill said:


> Man Tim - could I borrow that little bldg with the two window behind your garden for Lil Mikey's shop? Seriouisly - that is a sweet, sweet garden. You cannot imagine how much I want to have that much sun and room to grow veggies - AND fruit! It appears that I have more of a fight with critters for what I can grow this year. All pears are gone before they even got 1/2 grown. All the paw-paws are gone. All the persimmons have been raided even before they started expanding much. Now the figs are disappearing - especially on a white fig that they have not touched before. I will leave some on one more day to get ripe enough to enjoy and - POOF - they be gone. Maybe I'll pick them early and soak em in sugar syrup or sumthing. The pineberries and alpine strawberries are gone as soon as they set. And this year I am getting strange die off. Probably planted 30 asiatic lilies - only one growing, and it don't look all that good. Planted probably 30 oriental lilies and may be 10-12 emerged, and then died except one. Annual Vinca always does well in a front bed - I usually plant 3 trays or more. This year could only find one tray and all were growing well and then 1/3 wilted and died - mainly in one small area. All my zinnias have died, even the volunteers. Growing well, and then poof. 2 of 3 lavender - brown and gone. 3 of the mums are dead and 3 are not looking so good - luckily I have cuttings growing, but may be too late for flowering. Growing good - then poof. 4 of the first 6 tomatoes are gone - know why - a rabbit that has mysteriously disappeared! As well as the 4 peppers set out. 2 of the peppers they just ate the leaves and I was bringing them back and they were looking good. I planted 6 more jalapenos and 4 mystery tomatoes (I got them from a recycle place and they looked sad, but nursed them back) and 6 volunteer tomatoes from another part of the yard - they are marble sized but good tasting. All transplanted well and were actively growing then Poof - ALL the peppers have wilted and died - and all but one of the volunteer tomatoes. However, all the mystery ones are growing well and setting fruit. Go figure! I can't! Not crying or nuthen!


The rodents and vermin in your garden are just like the ones in the national and state capitals, if you don't do something to consistently and actively deny them, they will happily take your stuff. So what are you doing to actively deny them access to it?
An electric fence charger can be had for like $25- at Tractor Supply. They're very effective and can even be very entertaining too.


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## Mike Hill

But momma says........ Plus I'd haveta build a full wire enclosure to deny them. I could probably stop most of the raccoons and rabbits with an electrified wire fence, but the squirrels are another matter - and would be the ones the full enclosure would be for. As long as I have a few to snack on - it's my contribution to the animal world. Momma might think different about the persimmons though - those are for her! We'll see when I eventually tell her.


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## djg

I picked 3 quarts of tame blackberries today. Could have had a full gallon, but I only picked the biggest. Vines are starting to die back now. My trellis a 16' long hog panel supported horizontally on three posts. The top edge is at the 6' to 6'-6" high mark.

Most of my vibes grew to 9' long. I just weave then in and out the panel a couple of times and then let the tops hang over top of the panel. I thought this was a good practice until I noticed the weight of the unsupported branches was breaking the branch at the top of the panel.

I though about putting a top on the trellis like someone here suggested for beans, but I wonder if my yield would be better pruning to 6' and keep them fully supported.

My green beans (4th planting) have finally come up. Now I've only gotten a tent of chicken wire on them to protect the sprouts. We're only 30 mi. East of st. Louis so we got all the rain they did. Now the garden is too wet to get into. I'll put a 3' fence around them next week when it dries out.

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## djg

Meant to say, I had peaches on my old tree. Not big, only 2" dia. but I was hoping to get enough for peach syrup this year. I resurrected my electric sprayer so I could spray Seven on the tree to keep the squirrels off. Went out today and every peach was gone. Nothing but pits on the ground. Had an old apple tree uproot too with all this rain. Slowly I'm loosing my fruit trees I planted over 30 years ago. And did anyone look at the prices for new trees? Yikes!

Lastly put up 5 more jars of pickles today. Forgot to buy garlic so these are without. Never could tell it was in them before.

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## sprucegum

djg said:


> Never could tell it was in them before.


Got to agree with you about the garlic. I always put some in the dilly beans but I think it's a waste. The jalapeno and dill is what makes them good.

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## trc65

Dan, here's a link to a pruning guide for blackberries. Pruning can greatly increase yields, and can keep them to a manageable size. https://www.starkbros.com/growing-guide/how-to-grow/berry-plants/blackberry-plants/pruning 

Was thinking about you with all the rains, hope you haven't had too much damage from it.

I get my fruit trees from either Jung seeds in WI, or from Stark Bros in MO. If you get on the mailing lists for both of them, they have periodic sales throughout spring and early summer on their trees. Occasionally they will also offer some for fall sale.

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## JerseyHighlander

djg said:


> Meant to say, I had peaches on my old tree. Not big, only 2" dia. but I was hoping to get enough for peach syrup this year. I resurrected my electric sprayer so I could spray Seven on the tree to keep the squirrels off. Went out today and every peach was gone. Nothing but pits on the ground. Had an old apple tree uproot too with all this rain. Slowly I'm loosing my fruit trees I planted over 30 years ago. And did anyone look at the prices for new trees? Yikes!
> 
> Lastly put up 5 more jars of pickles today. Forgot to buy garlic so these are without. Never could tell it was in them before.





sprucegum said:


> Got to agree with you about the garlic. I always put some in the dilly beans but I think it's a waste. The jalapeno and dill is what makes them good.


Have to disagree with you both here. We've always put garlic in the pickles, being the garlic fanatics we are we probably put considerably more than the recipe calls for and you can certainly tell it's there. Maybe you're using too tame of a store bought garlic... Chesnok, Spanish Roja, any of the purple stripe hardnecks are great. German White or German Hardy are a bit too tame for our liking. I don't just eat the pickles, I eat the pickled garlic with it. 
Some say to just through the whole clove in there, we usually chop it at least in half or quarters depending on how big it is. I think it makes a difference.

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## trc65

Good point on the garlic types, what's in the stores is extremely mild flavored. Go find a farmers market tomorrow morning and see if you can find some of the hardnecks Kyle mentioned. Agree on quantity, for dilly beans in pints I would add three cloves that I whacked with a knife first.

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## djg

trc65 said:


> Dan, here's a link to a pruning guide for blackberries. Pruning can greatly increase yields, and can keep them to a manageable size. https://www.starkbros.com/growing-guide/how-to-grow/berry-plants/blackberry-plants/pruning
> 
> Was thinking about you with all the rains, hope you haven't had too much damage from it.
> 
> I get my fruit trees from either Jung seeds in WI, or from Stark Bros in MO. If you get on the mailing lists for both of them, they have periodic sales throughout spring and early summer on their trees. Occasionally they will also offer some for fall sale.


No we were fine with just the rain. As you move East out of St. Louis, is pretty level. But once you get to Collinsville, you hit the bluffs. Helps on tornadoes too.

I've tried Stark and I really wasn't impressed. That's where all my trees came from. Of course, I never pruned them properly.

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## djg

Yes, store bought garlic only.

I've got to get back into looking for garlic this Fall. I like garlic and would be interested in how it perks up pickles.


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## JerseyHighlander

If you're a fan of homemade Chicken Soup, you'll never go back once you've made a pot with Spanish Roja garlic. We hadn't been able to get any the past two years with everything shut down, my wife came back with it from the farmers market last weekend and set to work making Chicken Soup on the hottest day of the summer so far this year. And I came home and happily put a bowl in long term storage, while standing in front of the air conditioner.

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## djg

Looking again for garlic for this Fall and I almost fell for the "seed". The other option is "Culinary/Table" garlic. What's that mean?


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## JerseyHighlander

I'm kicking myself the past several days that I never invested in any kind of a grow light before now. It's roughly one full week short a couple hours since I set it up and the results are a game changer for me.

I had that starter tray with lettuce and Tatsoi that wound up getting pummeled by the rain and lost most of the Tatsoi and half of the lettuce but surprisingly some survived and began to perk up as it dried out. Beets sprouted almost immediately after and shot up into long stringy stems. I think the new soil block technique was a big help as it wasn't surrounded on five of six sides with plastic and was able to dry out pretty fast.




Likely wouldn't have gotten so beaten up if they weren't standing so high on threads.




Then the light came. I posted a few progress pictures already but this is the comparison of the whole tray. Some stuff was added from the 3/4" mini blocks that had sprouted a few days before the light came and was just "potted" up to the 2" blocks on Wednesday. Plenty of space available after removing the empty blocks from where the seedlings didn't survive.

Just under a week under the light. Everything that survived the rain is on the right, the left is seeds that were started just a few days before and just potted up two days ago.




I've been very interested in obscure heirloom varieties of certain things for a while now and have found a few good places to get seeds for things nobodies ever heard of before.

One of those is a romaine lettuce Fruition Seeds calls Flashy Troutback. ("HEIRLOOM This marvelously speckled romaine has roots deep in 18th Century Germany, her name ‘Forellenschluss’ translating to ‘Speckled Like a Trout’"). This is a heat tolerant variety that can also go well into the beginning of winter.
Just in behind it is one of the surviving Tatsoi/Asian spinach.




Another is also Fruition's Plato II lettuce and another of the heat tolerant varieties




This interesting one is called Blue Rock from Johnny's Seeds in Maine. Not sure if it's an heirloom or not.

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## trc65

djg said:


> No we were fine with just the rain. As you move East out of St. Louis, is pretty level. But once you get to Collinsville, you hit the bluffs. Helps on tornadoes too.
> 
> I've tried Stark and I really wasn't impressed. That's where all my trees came from. Of course, I never pruned them properly.


I used to buy all my fruits from Stark, but stopped buying from them several years ago. They sent me a cherry tree with no roots, only a 3 inch stub of a tap root below the graft. Sent pictures, called, never could get any satisfaction. Then, the following spring made a claim on their one year guarantee, they wouldn't honor it. Then, their automated system asked me for a review. I submitted one backed up with pictures and thought I might at least get a response from that, but all they did was delete my review. Not a company that I will do any business with anymore.

I mention them only as their selection of varieties is large, but what you receive from them is a crap shoot. Also, what you get is what you are stuck with. No returns, no guarantee, no customer service. Sad for a company that brags about their family, history, etc...




djg said:


> Looking again for garlic for this Fall and I almost fell for the "seed". The other option is "Culinary/Table" garlic. What's that mean?


My guess is table garlic is probably softneck varieties that have had sprout inhibitors used on them for long term storage.

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## JerseyHighlander

djg said:


> Looking again for garlic for this Fall and I almost fell for the "seed". The other option is "Culinary/Table" garlic. What's that mean?


Not sure where you are in IL but the farmer's markets should have garlic available by now. http://www.eatwild.com/products/illinoisresources.htm

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## Sprung

No pictures, but yesterday's small harvest made for a nice addition to dinner. Our first summer squash, sautéed with our first bell pepper and some small shallots I pulled (needed to thin them a little bit). Some roasted shishito peppers to go with it. The green beans that were harvested yesterday will go with dinner tonight. Love this time of year when we're eating fresh from the garden...

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## sprucegum

I got out early this morning and planted some sugar snap peas. Last week I pulled the shelling peas and went over the ground with the old troybilt. I soaked the seeds overnight and planted back in the same row. I didn't do the whole row because we don't care for them frozen. It's kind of a crap shoot weather we will get a crop anyway. My friend that owns a farm supply gave me the seed and I sprinkled on a cup full of fertilizer so it won't cost much to try.

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## trc65

Anybody else grow any of these? Do you know what they are? I've got two varieties of them this year.





Same variety as above, just a little more mature.





Different variety.





A couple pictures of begonias in my hosta bed.

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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> Anybody else grow any of these? Do you know what they are? I've got two varieties of them this year.
> 
> View attachment 229786
> 
> Same variety as above, just a little more mature.
> 
> View attachment 229780
> 
> Different variety.
> 
> View attachment 229781
> 
> A couple pictures of begonias in my hosta bed.
> 
> View attachment 229782
> 
> View attachment 229785


Reminds me of some things I've seen SCUBA diving... Don't know what they are but I'm guessing they're not from around here..., mighty purdy though.


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## trc65

They are castor beans. Really nifty looking plants if you have the space for them. I've had them grow nearly 10 ft tall. The first is a variety called 'Sanguineus', the deep purple one is 'New Zealand Purple'

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## Wildthings

trc65 said:


> They are castor beans. Really nifty looking plants if you have the space for them. I've had them grow nearly 10 ft tall. The first is a variety called 'Sanguineus', the deep purple one is 'New Zealand Purple'


Does Jack come with them?

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Have a quart of seeds in my seed storage . They work like a charm against moles.

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## trc65

Sweet corn day!

About 15 dozen or so of this variety.





Just waiting for the water to boil.

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## djg

We've been buying ours at Schnucks 3/$1. Man that's a lot. How big of freezer do you have? You freeze on the cob or cut off and package?


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## sprucegum

String bean day. 2 full canner loads. Probably do a few more but with just 2 of us and a big variety of vegetables we don't need to do a lot of each one. I will make a few dilly beans but not a lot because my wife doesn't eat them. A few jars for me and a few to give away

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## trc65

djg said:


> We've been buying ours at Schnucks 3/$1. Man that's a lot. How big of freezer do you have? You freeze on the cob or cut off and package?


We have an upright chest freezer that will hold a lot. Cut off and package for all the corn. Takes up too much space for on the cob. Got 51 bags from this batch. That's about enough for the year. Will probably only freeze a little of the next two varieties and eat most of it fresh and give a bunch away. Even though maturity of the three varieties is about 14 days apart, the rest will be ready by the end of the week. Conditions have been ideal.

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## Wildthings

trc65 said:


> We have an upright chest freezer that will hold a lot. Cut off and package for all the corn. Takes up too much space for on the cob. Got 51 bags from this batch. That's about enough for the year. Will probably only freeze a little of the next two varieties and eat most of it fresh and give a bunch away. Even though maturity of the three varieties is about 14 days apart, the rest will be ready by the end of the week. Conditions have been ideal.


I eat a corn on the cob just about every night. 4/$1.00 at HEB and they are pathetic this year. those look unreal!! With the ongoing drought it's a wonder we can get any at all

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## trc65

Around here it's going for $5 a dozen bought from the back of a pickup. Picked fresh every morning, probably a dozen different guys in parking lots around town.


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## trc65

Around here it's going for $5 a dozen bought from the back of a pickup. Picked fresh every morning, probably a dozen different guys in parking lots around town.

We've had perfect weather for corn. Late planting as it was cold/wet early, but ample moisture, good temps during pollination and lots of hot humid weather since then.

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## Sprung

We're *just* starting to see sweet corn available here. Most places I'm seeing $7 to $8/dozen. Last year everyone was at $6/dozen.

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## djg

trc65 said:


> We have an upright chest freezer that will hold a lot. Cut off and package for all the corn. Takes up too much space for on the cob. Got 51 bags from this batch. That's about enough for the year. Will probably only freeze a little of the next two varieties and eat most of it fresh and give a bunch away. Even though maturity of the three varieties is about 14 days apart, the rest will be ready by the end of the week. Conditions have been ideal.


Yes we grew up with a chest freezer, too. Man use to can everything and put up corn like you did. Remember the 1/2 gal milk cartons? She'd slit down each corner to about 4" from the bottom, put in a plastic bag and fill the bottom 4" with corn. fold the flaps over and tape shut.

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## djg

sprucegum said:


> String bean day. 2 full canner loads. Probably do a few more but with just 2 of us and a big variety of vegetables we don't need to do a lot of each one. I will make a few dilly beans but not a lot because my wife doesn't eat them. A few jars for me and a few to give away
> View attachment 229831


How you keep your jars from clouding up with minerals from your water bath? I run two dehumidifiers down in the basement. Tomorrow, I'm putting up a couple of jars of pickles. I'll try the DH water in the bath (not inside the jars).


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## Sprung

djg said:


> How you keep your jars from clouding up with minerals from your water bath? I run two dehumidifiers down in the basement. Tomorrow, I'm putting up a couple of jars of pickles. I'll try the DH water in the bath (not inside the jars).



Dan, are talking about mineral build up on the outside of the jar from the water? I don't know if Dave is doing this, or needs to, but I always add a couple tablespoons or so of white vinegar to the water in my canner (I don't measure, just pour some in). That little bit of vinegar in the water when I'm canning (water bath and pressure) has eliminated mineral residue on the outside of my jars.

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## djg

Sprung said:


> Dan, are talking about mineral build up on the outside of the jar from the water? I don't know if Dave is doing this, or needs to, but I always add a couple tablespoons or so of white vinegar to the water in my canner (I don't measure, just pour some in). That little bit of vinegar in the water when I'm canning (water bath and pressure) has eliminated mineral residue on the outside of my jars.


Yes I was talking about on the outside. Curious, if he might not be doing it that way, is there another method?


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## Mr. Peet

trc65 said:


> We have an upright chest freezer that will hold a lot. Cut off and package for all the corn. Takes up too much space for on the cob. Got 51 bags from this batch. That's about enough for the year. Will probably only freeze a little of the next two varieties and eat most of it fresh and give a bunch away. Even though maturity of the three varieties is about 14 days apart, the rest will be ready by the end of the week. Conditions have been ideal.


Have you tried using an outdoor turkey cooker system to do canning and cooking? Keeps the moisture and heat outdoors, heats up the water 5 times as fast and keeps the mess outdoors as well.

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## trc65

Mr. Peet said:


> Have you tried using an outdoor turkey cooker system to do canning and cooking? Keeps the moisture and heat outdoors, heats up the water 5 times as fast and keeps the mess outdoors as well.


I've got one, and was going to use it this time, but didn't have as much gas as I thought I did. At that point didn't want to make the hour round trip to town to get more so just did it inside. Poor planning on my part...

Would have saved a lot of time. Can only do about a dozen ears at a time on smaller pot on stove. With much larger turkey cooker could probably double that amount.

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## Wildthings

This 64-quart cooking kit is brand new as of Monday. Needed it to cook all the crabs we caught the other day. It'll do corn too!

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## trc65

At the research farm in WI we had a steam boiler and custom 8 ft³ stainless pots that we used to distill mint. Those were perfect for steaming corn in the husks for large field days, also do large batches of potatoes on occasion. Would have been great for crab, lobster or crawfish boils, but of course we were in WI....

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## sprucegum

djg said:


> How you keep your jars from clouding up with minerals from your water bath? I run two dehumidifiers down in the basement. Tomorrow, I'm putting up a couple of jars of pickles. I'll try the DH water in the bath (not inside the jars).


Never had that problem. We do have a water softener but we didn't at the old house. String beans need to be canned in a pressure canner. It wouldn't cost much to buy distilled water to make your pickle brine if minerals are the problem.

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## sprucegum

Some nice broccoli coming along, as usual the weather is too warm and the heads will be small. We will get a couple meals, then as the weather cools I should get lots of side shoots to eat and freeze. Home frozen broccoli is so much better than the store bought stuff

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## Mike Hill

Dave, do you not have cabbage loopers? By now at this time of year, I would have had only skeletons, if I was not out there picking and spraying every day.

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## sprucegum

trc65 said:


> We have an upright chest freezer that will hold a lot. Cut off and package for all the corn. Takes up too much space for on the cob. Got 51 bags from this batch. That's about enough for the year. Will probably only freeze a little of the next two varieties and eat most of it fresh and give a bunch away. Even though maturity of the three varieties is about 14 days apart, the rest will be ready by the end of the week. Conditions have been ideal.


Thats how we do our corn, blanch it cool it quick in ice water, cut it off the cob and freeze. It's really hard to get a lot of separation between varieties. My early corn is almost ready, I think it's about a 75-day corn. I planted some silver queen which is a 110-day corn and it's already silking out. Silver queen does tend to ripen over a longer period of time than most of the early variety's and with the days getting shorter we should have corn into September. I used to think that I could never get enough corn on the cob but now by the end of the season I'm ready to be done with it.

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## sprucegum

Mike Hill said:


> Dave, do you not have cabbage loopers? By now at this time of year, I would have had only skeletons, if I was not out there picking and spraying every day.


Brassicas are always a challenge, I use seven garden dust early then switch to dawn dish soap spray later. My cabbage was hardly bothered this year but I have some brussel sprouts started for fall that are getting chewed up.


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## Mike Hill

Just noticed - them are some mighty fine raised beds!!

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## Mike Hill

sprucegum said:


> Brassicas are always a challenge, I use seven garden dust early then switch to dawn dish soap spray later.


That may have been part of my problem. When I had my bees in the backyard, could not use sevin dust. Maybe the those 12 years without much control gave me a problem I cannot control now even with sevin. Have not tried cabbage in a few years now, but last time, unless I kept them picked off and used a constant coating of sevin on top AND bottom of leaf they were toast. And everytime it rained or I watered, I'd have to do it again - which ended up being most everyday - wasn't worth the trouble. Maybe the other problem is that NO ONE anywhere close grows veggies or fruit . All these hungry pests are concentrated on my yard because I'm the only one!

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## sprucegum

Mike Hill said:


> That may have been part of my problem. When I had my bees in the backyard, could not use sevin dust. Maybe the those 12 years without much control gave me a problem I cannot control now even with sevin. Have not tried cabbage in a few years now, but last time, unless I kept them picked off and used a constant coating of sevin on top AND bottom of leaf they were toast. And everytime it rained or I watered, I'd have to do it again - which ended up being most everyday - wasn't worth the trouble. Maybe the other problem is that NO ONE anywhere close grows veggies or fruit . All these hungry pests are concentrated on my yard because I'm the only one!


Another thing that really helps while your plants are getting started is to use hoops a some light weight fabric row covers. I use it a lot on various crops. I have some 15' x 30' pieces that i cover the corn with. It gives a couple of degrees of frost protection and more importantly the crows can't pull it. A half dozen crows can wipe out a garden size patch of corn in about 15 minutes. When the corn is too big for the crows I plant my beans a use it to cover them.

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## sprucegum

Mike Hill said:


> Just noticed - them are some mighty fine raised beds!!


Every time I bend over for a few minutes to weed and thin then straighten up, my bp medicine makes me dizzy. Solution; don't bend over.

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## trc65

sprucegum said:


> Brassicas are always a challenge, I use seven garden dust early then switch to dawn dish soap spray later. My cabbage was hardly bothered this year but I have some brussel sprouts started for fall that are getting chewed up.





Mike Hill said:


> That may have been part of my problem. When I had my bees in the backyard, could not use sevin dust. Maybe the those 12 years without much control gave me a problem I cannot control now even with sevin. Have not tried cabbage in a few years now, but last time, unless I kept them picked off and used a constant coating of sevin on top AND bottom of leaf they were toast. And everytime it rained or I watered, I'd have to do it again - which ended up being most everyday - wasn't worth the trouble. Maybe the other problem is that NO ONE anywhere close grows veggies or fruit . All these hungry pests are concentrated on my yard because I'm the only one!


For loopers on brassica crops consider using some of the synthetic pyrethroids. Chemicals that end in -rin like cypermethrin, cyfluthrin, bifenthrin, cyhalothrin, etc. They are very quick acting and effective on a broad range of pests and labeled for use on most veg crops. Safe to humans and pets and have a very short PHI (pre harvest interval) usually from 0 to 3 days. They are toxic to bees, but you aren't spraying them on anything that bees will frequent. 

Many of the chemicals that are labeled for veg crops that you find on the shelf in stores are synthetic pyrethroids.

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## djg

Been meaning to ask you guys who grow corn. How do you keep the raccoons from getting it? Not to mention in the Spring the deer get the sprouts.


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## trc65

Electric fence. I don't have any problems with deer when the corn is small, so not a problem then. About tassel time I put up waist high wire for deer and 6"wire for coons. Waist high wire keeps deer out as they can't see any place to land if they try to jump it. I place the fence about 5 ft away from corn so random leaves blown by the wind won't short it out.

If deer were brousing on sprouts I probably try putting up waist high wire and baiting it with peanut butter. Put a gob of peanut butter on a small square of aluminum foil and fold it over the wire. Usually one shock is all it takes for deer to stay away from an area.

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## sprucegum

Shell beans are doing pretty good. They had a slow start due to dry weather in June and most of July. These are some heirloom beans that have been grown by my wife's family for well over 100 years. They don't have a name that I know of, we just call them grama's shell
beans. We can them to eat plain or mixed with corn for succotash, we let some dry on the vine for baked beans and next years seed. They are a very reliable producer.

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## Greenacres2

trc65 said:


> Around here it's going for $5 a dozen bought from the back of a pickup. Picked fresh every morning, probably a dozen different guys in parking lots around town.


I looked at Cameron, IL on Google Earth--a dozen guys selling corn must be about a quarter of the population!!  
Originally looked at that to see if you were on the east side of IL, but you're west side. Great looking garden!!

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## JerseyHighlander

sprucegum said:


> Shell beans are doing pretty good. They had a slow start due to dry weather in June and most of July. These are some heirloom beans that have been grown by my wife's family for well over 100 years. They don't have a name that I know of, we just call them grama's shell
> beans. We can them to eat plain or mixed with corn for succotash, we let some dry on the vine for baked beans and next years seed. They are a very reliable producer. View attachment 229881View attachment 229882View attachment 229880



That is as the youngsters say; Cool Beans! Somewhere Grama is watching over and smiling. Gotta get one of the current Grand kids to do a graphic on the computer and run a blank seed pack envelope through the printer to make it official. Maybe some of "Grama's" lineage on the back side... 
May want to look into putting some into the seed savers exchange. https://exchange.seedsavers.org/page/landing

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## trc65

Greenacres2 said:


> I looked at Cameron, IL on Google Earth--a dozen guys selling corn must be about a quarter of the population!!
> Originally looked at that to see if you were on the east side of IL, but you're west side. Great looking garden!!


Yeah, there is nothing in Cameron except a grain elevator. We live four miles south of Cameron. When we say town, we're always referring to Galesburg which is about 34000 pop. About a 25 minute trip into Galesburg when we need to do shopping.

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## Sprung

sprucegum said:


> Shell beans are doing pretty good. They had a slow start due to dry weather in June and most of July. These are some heirloom beans that have been grown by my wife's family for well over 100 years. They don't have a name that I know of, we just call them grama's shell
> beans. We can them to eat plain or mixed with corn for succotash, we let some dry on the vine for baked beans and next years seed. They are a very reliable producer.



Dave, that is real cool - I love hearing about people's stories with their family heirloom seeds. I second Kyle's Seed Savers suggestion. And if you ever feel like selling or trading away a small handful of the dried beans, I'd love some. Beans are our favorite and most eaten vegetable and we love trying new varieties.

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## Sprung

Speaking of beans, we're now at the point where we're harvesting more beans than we can eat fresh. Which means beans for the freezer! And eventually dilly beans as well. Some may get canned too, if we start running short on freezer space.

This year we planted:
Wax beans (don't recall the variety)
Provider (A favorite of ours - and we will always grow these)
???? - Some form of Italian bush bean - I don't know how we got these growing, except for maybe we got some mislabeled seed
Dragon's Tongue - pictured below - a new one for us this year. And we've already decided that we will grow these each year. They're good.
Cherokee Trail of Tears - another new one for us this year. It looks like we'll be harvesting the first of these this weekend.
Succotash - another new one for us this year. It'll be a while before we have some of these to harvest.

Our Shishito Pepper plants are really taking off too and we're starting to get more than we'll eat right away, so I'll start pickling some. These are thinner, so I'm going to do a refrigerator pickle on these so they don't turn to mush in the water bath.

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## sprucegum

Sprung said:


> Dave, that is real cool - I love hearing about people's stories with their family heirloom seeds. I second Kyle's Seed Savers suggestion. And if you ever feel like selling or trading away a small handful of the dried beans, I'd love some. Beans are our favorite and most eaten vegetable and we love trying new varieties.


I will send you some when the new crop is ready. I suppose sending some to seed savers would be a good idea. Several family members grow them so the DNA is safe for now

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## djg

sprucegum said:


> Shell beans are doing pretty good. They had a slow start due to dry weather in June and most of July. These are some heirloom beans that have been grown by my wife's family for well over 100 years. They don't have a name that I know of, we just call them grama's shell
> beans. We can them to eat plain or mixed with corn for succotash, we let some dry on the vine for baked beans and next years seed. They are a very reliable producer. View attachment 229881View attachment 229882View attachment 229880


I'm confused. Is the shell beans just another variety of green beans that you let go past the green eating stage or they actually a special variety. My Mom used to put up 'shelly beans' that I thought was just yellow beans left on the vine until they almost dried out. Been over 20 years and I don't remember. Loved the earthy taste.


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## sprucegum

djg said:


> I'm confused. Is the shell beans just another variety of green beans that you let go past the green eating stage or they actually a special variety. My Mom used to put up 'shelly beans' that I thought was just yellow beans left on the vine until they almost dried out. Been over 20 years and I don't remember. Loved the earthy taste.


Shell beans can be over ripe string beans or not fully mature dried beans. These are dried beans that make good shell beans. We have used soldier bean and Jacobs cattle beans in the past. I think some varieties like French Horticultural are grown specifically for shelling beans.


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## sprucegum

We like succotash better than plain shell beans. Succotash is a native American word which means corn and beans cooked together. I see all kinds of crazy succotash recipes online but to me it's corn and beans.

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## Greenacres2

trc65 said:


> Yeah, there is nothing in Cameron except a grain elevator. We live four miles south of Cameron. When we say town, we're always referring to Galesburg which is about 34000 pop. About a 25 minute trip into Galesburg when we need to do shopping.


That makes a lot more sense. Used to drive out to Foster Coach in Sterling from the race track in Joliet to pick up & return ambulances for the bigger races. That drive across I-80 was pretty dull--6 of us in a van going out, be the return trip was one per box--no radio, no cell phones...just flat.
Awesome garden and grounds!! If we ever do the Dyersville, IA trip for my wife i'll drop off a cold cup of coffee for you!!
earl

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## Sprung

sprucegum said:


> I will send you some when the new crop is ready. I suppose sending some to seed savers would be a good idea. Several family members grow them so the DNA is safe for now



Dave, thank you! Always fun to try growing new varieties and I'll look forward to growing these - and seed saving - next year. (And glad that you've got multiple family members keeping your variety going!)


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## djg

sprucegum said:


> We like succotash better than plain shell beans. Succotash is a native American word which means corn and beans cooked together. I see all kinds of crazy succotash recipes online but to me it's corn and beans.View attachment 229907


Is that how young you pick them for shell beans? Man I wish I would have paid more attention. When I was a kid, I mowed grass for a neighbor who was a retired botany? professor. He had well maintained and productive fruit trees in his yard. He was going to show me how to prune, but being a dumb kid, I wasn't interested. I wish I had.
Jogging my memory, we used to have something called crotter? peas (or beans?). Mom came from a family of German descent, if that helps.


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## sprucegum

djg said:


> Is that how young you pick them for shell beans? Man I wish I would have paid more attention. When I was a kid, I mowed grass for a neighbor who was a retired botany? professor. He had well maintained and productive fruit trees in his yard. He was going to show me how to prune, but being a dumb kid, I wasn't interested. I wish I had.
> Jogging my memory, we used to have something called crotter? peas (or beans?). Mom came from a family of German descent, if that helps.


No those are way too small, it's where they are at now. I wait until the beans are pretty much mature but have not started to dry.

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## djg

Got the bright idea to google it (lol) and it's crowder peas, southern not German foods. Looking for some seeds for next year.

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## djg

I've got store bought sweet potatoes that have foot long slips on them. I don't guess there's anything I can do with them now? Certainly wouldn't make it to next Spring?


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## JerseyHighlander

Ok, I need advice from the experts. Have a few tomato plants that were transplants back in spring, they both grew well and healthy one of them nearing 8 foot high before I topped it off. The other slowed down about 6.5 feet and started flowering, getting good bunches of fruit one after the other but about two weeks ago I noticed the earliest bunch had stopped gaining any size, just froze where it was, but otherwise looked normal. Leaves were looking a little haggard but figured it was the heat or it needed water. Now, leaves look like this and I'm stumped. 








Another plant three feet away looks fine, though it's barely been flowering. But the leaves are nice dark green and it's healthy. I'm thinking it's a deficiency of some kind but just don't know which way to go. 


.


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## JerseyHighlander

sprucegum said:


> I will send you some when the new crop is ready. I suppose sending some to seed savers would be a good idea. Several family members grow them so the DNA is safe for now


I'm not certain how it works but aside from your seed being preserved for the future, joining and adding into the exchange I believe gives you access to other such seed that isn't accessible to others outside the exchange.


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## trc65

JerseyHighlander said:


> Ok, I need advice from the experts. Have a few tomato plants that were transplants back in spring, they both grew well and healthy one of them nearing 8 foot high before I topped it off. The other slowed down about 6.5 feet and started flowering, getting good bunches of fruit one after the other but about two weeks ago I noticed the earliest bunch had stopped gaining any size, just froze where it was, but otherwise looked normal. Leaves were looking a little haggard but figured it was the heat or it needed water. Now, leaves look like this and I'm stumped.
> 
> View attachment 229937
> View attachment 229938
> 
> Another plant three feet away looks fine, though it's barely been flowering. But the leaves are nice dark green and it's healthy. I'm thinking it's a deficiency of some kind but just don't know which way to go.
> 
> 
> .


A few questions, upper leaves, lower leaves or the whole plant shows the mottling? Do you know the pH of your soil, or at least a general idea of pH in the area. What have you already done for fertility? What was the source of the transplants, did you grow them yourself or get them from somewhere else? If you grew them yourself what was the source of seed? What variety are they, same variety for both plants?

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## trc65

My first thought is magnesium deficiency on your tomatoes. Causes can be low pH, sandy, rocky soils that leach nutrients easily. High potassium fertility can also contribute to magnesium deficiency. Cure is Epsom salts. Most places recommend using 1 tsp Epsom salt per quart of water and foliar feeding. Do a little googling to see some deficiency symptoms and see if that matches what you are seeing.

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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> A few questions, upper leaves, lower leaves or the whole plant shows the mottling? Do you know the pH of your soil, or at least a general idea of pH in the area. What have you already done for fertility? What was the source of the transplants, did you grow them yourself or get them from somewhere else? If you grew them yourself what was the source of seed? What variety are they, same variety for both plants?


It did start with the lower leaves and the upper leaves have still been mostly green. In general my soil pH is far on the alkaline side but this is a new bed, a small area I have the compost pile on for several years, including several years of Christmas trees, as I know the needles can help adjust the pH to the acid side. But, I haven't tested it, it was put into action with some haste this spring and things were growing very well so I really didn't worry about it. 
The transplants came from a farm I know not too far from here, they sell at the local farmer's market. they are two different varieties, and there are two other smaller plants that I started from seed, direct sown, where the seed was saved from heirloom tomato's we used to get from our CSA farm. They are far behind the transplants but still doing ok.



trc65 said:


> My first thought is magnesium deficiency on your tomatoes. Causes can be low pH, sandy, rocky soils that leach nutrients easily. High potassium fertility can also contribute to magnesium deficiency. Cure is Epsom salts. Most places recommend using 1 tsp Epsom salt per quart of water and foliar feeding. Do a little googling to see some deficiency symptoms and see if that matches what you are seeing.


That was my first impression too. I did do a foliar feeding with epsom salt a day or two before I posted this but wasn't sure what I should expect to see in response or how often I should do it. At your suggestion I did some digging last night and it does look like that's what it is, or at least one of the things it is and the info says I shouldn't expect to see the yellowed leaves return to green but it should stop advancing. Still not sure if I should include a bit of the epsom salt in the water or not? I know the sulphate side of it will help with the pH imbalance...

I've been using a fish/kelp emulsion when watering and once in a while some Black Strap Molasses. Nearby winter squash are doing great, broccoli is doing great, except for the suffering the heat wave.

I also put a pepper plant, another transplant from the market, not far from the tomato's and it's been growing great, nearly three feet tall, but has had several flowers over the past several weeks but they disappear and not a pepper in sight. Don't know if it's tied in or nothing to do with the tomato issue.


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## trc65

It's not going to hurt to keep feeding with the epsom salt (within reason), so I'd keep foliar feeding every few days for the next week or two. May also just want to mix up a few gallons (1-2 TBS/per gallon) and apply a gallon or so per plant directly to the soil.

The reason I asked about seed source/variety is some diseases can be seed borne, and some varieties have more susceptibility to certain diseases. I was thinking mostly of tobacco mosaic virus (TMV) which can cause symptom of leaf mottling. I'm almost positive though that it is not TMV.

Don't know about the pepper, but don't think it's related to the tomato, unless you start seeing some foliar symptoms. Peppers can be difficult to diagnose problems on unless you see some obvious foliar symptoms. I tend to grow lots of plants and take what I get it, mostly ignoring them. Lots of things can cause blossoms to abort, including high heat. If the plants look healthy, they will eventually produce.


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## trc65

Too hot to do anything much outside today, so pulled a cabbage out of the fridge and made some green cabbage kimchi.









Green Cabbage Kimchi (양배추 김치 Yangbaechu Kimchi)


Green Cabbage Kimchi (Yangbaechu Kimchi) is simple and easy kimchi to make, especially if you are a beginner to kimchi-making. Whenever I think about making Kimchi, it reminds me of the days when I was




kimchimari.com

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## djg

I just fixed one of my mini-cultivators and tilled up my raised bed. Tossed in some new compost and worked it in. Now is it too late to plant Fall spinach?


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## trc65

djg said:


> I just fixed one of my mini-cultivators and tilled up my raised bed. Tossed in some new compost and worked it in. Now is it too late to plant Fall spinach?


Not at all. Plant away, and you should be picking some by the middle of September.

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## trc65

Today is peach day! Local county Farm Bureau had fundraiser selling peaches from Southern IL and picked up a half bushel. Cheaper than anywhere else and money goes to funding AG in the classroom programs.

Not the quantity that Eric processed, but we'll make good use of them. Making bunches of jam and will can a majority (that don't get eaten fresh).

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## Eric Rorabaugh

Those peaches look really good. Jam? Jelly? Pie filling? Freeze for cobblers? Canned in syrup?

Did 59 quarts and 12 pints of spaghetti sauce today.

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## trc65

Started with a batch of jam today. Will probably do 4-5 batches of jam and can a good portion of the rest in light syrup. Whatever is left after canning some will be frozen.

Just went out and checked and the first pears are mature, so will start picking them as well. Will can those that don't get eaten fresh.

It's going to be a busy weekend as picked enough green beans for a canner batch tomorrow, and need to start processing the roma tomatoes.

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## trc65

A lot of the hostas are blooming now and the begonias are getting bigger.

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## Sprung

Question for those who can spaghetti/tomato sauce. Last year I canned my first sauce. It's good, but with having to add either citric acid or lemon juice to acidify it, following what is recommended as safe canning practices, it's just too acidic for our tastes. When we've been using it, we've been adding in a touch of sugar and a pinch of baking soda to help counterbalance the acidity, but it's still a bit too much. (We started with lemon juice, but didn't like the lemon flavor in the background, so switched to using citric acid.)

Any thoughts on how to better counteract this acidity and still use safe/recommended canning practices? At this point, I'm giving thought to just making sauce to freeze to avoid the acidity issue, but freezer space is always a concern as well. It's way easier to come up with more shelf space than it is to come up with more space in the freezers.


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## Wildthings

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Those peaches look really good. Jam? Jelly? Pie filling? Freeze for cobblers? Canned in syrup?
> 
> Did 59 quarts and 12 pints of spaghetti sauce today.


Don't you ever work protecting your states resources

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## trc65

Sprung said:


> Question for those who can spaghetti/tomato sauce. Last year I canned my first sauce. It's good, but with having to add either citric acid or lemon juice to acidify it, following what is recommended as safe canning practices, it's just too acidic for our tastes. When we've been using it, we've been adding in a touch of sugar and a pinch of baking soda to help counterbalance the acidity, but it's still a bit too much. (We started with lemon juice, but didn't like the lemon flavor in the background, so switched to using citric acid.)
> 
> Any thoughts on how to better counteract this acidity and still use safe/recommended canning practices? At this point, I'm giving thought to just making sauce to freeze to avoid the acidity issue, but freezer space is always a concern as well. It's way easier to come up with more shelf space than it is to come up with more space in the freezers.


The only thing I've ever tried is adding sugar after the fact, and my results are the same as yours. Saw where several places suggested adding sugar to the jar before processing, but not sure that would be much better.

I don't add acid to my tomato products with pressure canner, but reading things tonight, USDA recommends added acid even when pressure canning. I don't plan to change my practices, but I won't advocate that others do what I do either.

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## Sprung

When I've made sauce to freeze in the past, the other veggies I used - mainly onions and carrots - brought enough sweetness that I didn't need to add sugar.

Yeah, this is where I've been in a bit of an internal debate since there are many who still can tomato sauce without adding acid. When I started canning, I made the decision to only use recipes or methods that are considered safe canning practices. Afterall, while there are some things I might be considered an expert on, this definitely isn't something I'm an expert on.

Just out of curiosity, since you're pressure canning tomato products, what pressure and time do you use for pints and quarts of things like tomato sauce and juice?


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## Sprung

Hmm, just came across this recipe for spaghetti sauce that doesn't call for adding acid. And all their canning recipes are considered safe practice.



National Center for Home Food Preservation | How Do I? Can Tomatoes



Might have to give this one a try... No mushrooms though - my wife likes them, but I definitely do not.

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## trc65

Sprung said:


> When I've made sauce to freeze in the past, the other veggies I used - mainly onions and carrots - brought enough sweetness that I didn't need to add sugar.
> 
> Yeah, this is where I've been in a bit of an internal debate since there are many who still can tomato sauce without adding acid. When I started canning, I made the decision to only use recipes or methods that are considered safe canning practices. Afterall, while there are some things I might be considered an expert on, this definitely isn't something I'm an expert on.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, since you're pressure canning tomato products, what pressure and time do you use for pints and quarts of things like tomato sauce and juice?


I use 6 psi (dial gauge) for 20 minutes for juice, sauce and stewed quartered tomatoes. Same time for pints and quarts. USDA says that even though they are pressure canned, the resulting temp is the same for BWB and the low pressure, pressure canner, you just save cooking time with the pressure canner.

They say that tomato products without any added acid should be treated as a low acid content vegetable, but have refused to publish a pressure/time table. They say that more research is needed to produce accurate tables. Of course, they have been saying that as far back as the 1980's.

If I was overly concerned about the acidity I'd probably use 11 psi for 25 minutes which is what is recommended for green beans. Beans definitely have low acid content and are more dense than tomatoes or their juice.

_Edit_: just looked at the recipe you linked and 25 minutes at 11 psi is what the recipe recommends. That psi and time would be good to use for anybody who didn't want to add acid, but was concerned that their tomato juice, plain sauce or stewed tomatoes had low acid content.

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## Eric Rorabaugh

Wildthings said:


> Don't you ever work protecting your states resources


Sometimes. Gotta use that leave up so I don't lose it. 

We don't use any acid when we can spaghetti (tomato) sauce and don't have any problems.

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## Sprung

trc65 said:


> I use 6 psi (dial gauge) for 20 minutes for juice, sauce and stewed quartered tomatoes. Same time for pints and quarts. USDA says that even though they are pressure canned, the resulting temp is the same for BWB and the low pressure, pressure canner, you just save cooking time with the pressure canner.
> 
> They say that tomato products without any added acid should be treated as a low acid content vegetable, but have refused to publish a pressure/time table. They say that more research is needed to produce accurate tables. Of course, they have been saying that as far back as the 1980's.
> 
> If I was overly concerned about the acidity I'd probably use 11 psi for 25 minutes which is what is recommended for green beans. Beans definitely have low acid content and are more dense than tomatoes or their juice.
> 
> _Edit_: just looked at the recipe you linked and 25 minutes at 11 psi is what the recipe recommends. That psi and time would be good to use for anybody who didn't want to add acid, but was concerned that their tomato juice, plain sauce or stewed tomatoes had low acid content.



Yeah, I came across that same thing about it needing more research. With how popular canned tomato products are, and how long they've been talking about doing that research, you'd think someone would've done the research or published a pressure/time table by now...

Yeah, I had noticed the 25 minutes at 11PSI. Which, as you point out, is what green beans go in for. So I think I'll give that a try.


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## trc65

Picked some roma tomatoes today to start dehydrating. I like to dry a bunch as they are easy to use when you don't need a whole pint or quart of canned. Different taste as well.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

We've got okra and weeds. Everything else burned to a crisp. Even the okra is looking kinda puny...

This week I'm going to start spreading compost and tilling (if it'll go ahead and rain). Get things ready for mid Sept and try for a fall crop.

Alan

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## Sprung

Tim, dehydrating tomatoes to use later on in dishes/cooking is something I've been wanting to explore and I've been planning to dehydrate some this year. Do you leave them whole? Grind them up into a powder? I've seen suggestions for both and just trying to get a feel for how they could be used before I dry some.


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## Sprung

Really needed to get into the garden yesterday to harvest, but it rained, so it had to wait until today. More beans - they're producing good right now. A few poblano peppers and a whole bunch of shishito peppers. Pulled up a few carrots. Cucumbers are coming in slowly, but that's honestly a good pace - we're currently at the stage where we're able to eat them as we get them and aren't overrun with them yet.

Picked up 5 dozen sweet corn. 4 dozen will become freezer corn and the other dozen we'll eat on the cob over the course of this week.

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## trc65

Sprung said:


> Tim, dehydrating tomatoes to use later on in dishes/cooking is something I've been wanting to explore and I've been planning to dehydrate some this year. Do you leave them whole? Grind them up into a powder? I've seen suggestions for both and just trying to get a feel for how they could be used before I dry some.



I just use roma/ sauce type tomatoes for dehydrating, regular slicers have too much moisture/lower solids.

A lot of these are 6-8oz tomatoes, so most of these are quartered for drying. Smaller ones may just be halved. I cut the stem end off, cut in half lengthwise and remove any green/white core, then quarter them. Before drying, I'll sprinkle about a teaspoon of salt on them and mix well. Let them sit for 30-60 minutes and a lot of moisture will be drawn out and shorten time in dehydrator. Drain, and place on dehydrator skin side down. A full load takes between 24-30 hours on my dehydrator which is an old American Harvest with 4 circular trays ~ 13" interior (useable) diameter. A full load will just about fill up a quart jar when dried.

You don't need to salt them if you are concerned about sodium, it just speeds up the process a little. I rotate trays a couple times to keep things more even. Don't ever place them with the cut side laying on the trays. If you do, those pieces will be next to impossible to remove and you'll spend a lot of time soaking and scrubbing the trays.

In addition to using them in soups and stews, I'll often break up a few pieces in a bowl of Ramen along with some leftover meat for a quick lunch. Also use them with pasta dishes. Most of the time I just break them up and toss them in whatever, but you could rehydrate them and add to a salad, cold pasta dish, ect.

Here's a picture I just took, about 3 hours on the dehydrator. The tomatoes were just touching each other when I loaded trays.

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## trc65

When it rains it pours. Just got in from picking the first pears this tree produced. They are 'StarKing Delicious'. Bartlett type pear that is a couple weeks earlier maturing.

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## djg

trc65 said:


> When it rains it pours. Just got in from picking the first pears this tree produced. They are 'StarKing Delicious'. Bartlett type pear that is a couple weeks earlier maturing.
> 
> View attachment 230171


Squirrels always got the few that my tree produced.


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## trc65

In spite of backing up to a timber, really don't see any squirrels. Have lots of barn cats that help keep them away.

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## Sprung

Thanks, Tim. I just might have to dehydrate some tomatoes once ours are ripe.

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## Sprung

Anyone ever make corn stock before?

It's been a few years since I've made some, so I decided to today after cutting corn off the cobs for freezer corn. Real easy to make. Put the cobs in a pot, fill up with water, put in a little salt (optional), and bring up to a low boil for about 30 minutes. Cool and strain. Nice way to get a little bit extra out of something that is just going to get tossed.

Really captures that fresh corn flavor. Great for adding a little taste of summer in soups during winter - especially in potato soup. I didn't make a lot, certainly didn't use even half cobs I had from today, but made 6 quarts, which is what I thought I'd maybe still have room for in the freezer after everything else eventually makes it in there over the next couple months.

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## Wildthings

Sprung said:


> Really needed to get into the garden yesterday to harvest, but it rained, so it had to wait until today. More beans - they're producing good right now. A few poblano peppers and* a whole bunch of shishito peppers.* Pulled up a few carrots. Cucumbers are coming in slowly, but that's honestly a good pace - we're currently at the stage where we're able to eat them as we get them and aren't overrun with them yet.
> 
> Picked up 5 dozen sweet corn. 4 dozen will become freezer corn and the other dozen we'll eat on the cob over the course of this week.


Man, that has become my favorite pepper. A little oil in a pan and a quick blister with a little sea salt...yummy.... or just 45 -60 seconds in the microwave if I'm feeling lazy

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## Sprung

Wildthings said:


> Man, that has become my favorite pepper. A little oil in a pan and a quick blister with a little sea salt...yummy.... or just 45 -60 seconds in the microwave if I'm feeling lazy



Yup, they are awesome and blistering them in a pan and finishing with a little coarse sea salt or lava salt is how we usually eat them too. Our whole bunch today was almost 50 peppers - with lots more to come! I grilled them up today as it was quicker to do a big batch on the grill. Whatever didn't get eaten with dinner got chopped up and is in the freezer and will be good for adding into dishes during the winter. I've also pickled a couple pints of them cut into rings and hope to pickle more - I did a refrigerator pickle on them since I'm not sure how well they'd hold up to the heat and time of hot water bathing them. We have found shishito plants to be very prolific producers and get lots of peppers from just 5 plants.

Dinner tonight was all done on the grill and was good eating - shishitos, yellow squash, corn on the cob, and filet mignon. (For the record, I don't go out and buy filet - or any steaks! - we get our beef by the quarter, so there's all kinds of good cuts in our freezer.) We ate good and the steak was perhaps the best steak I've ever grilled.

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## trc65

Wildthings said:


> Man, that has become my favorite pepper. A little oil in a pan and a quick blister with a little sea salt...yummy.... or just 45 -60 seconds in the microwave if I'm feeling lazy


Never heard of that pepper before, but it's going on my seed list for next year!

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## trc65

Sprung said:


> Yup, they are awesome and blistering them in a pan and finishing with a little coarse sea salt or lava salt is how we usually eat them too. Our whole bunch today was almost 50 peppers - with lots more to come! I grilled them up today as it was quicker to do a big batch on the grill. Whatever didn't get eaten with dinner got chopped up and is in the freezer and will be good for adding into dishes during the winter. I've also pickled a couple pints of them cut into rings and hope to pickle more - I did a refrigerator pickle on them since I'm not sure how well they'd hold up to the heat and time of hot water bathing them. We have found shishito plants to be very prolific producers and get lots of peppers from just 5 plants.
> 
> Dinner tonight was all done on the grill and was good eating - shishitos, yellow squash, corn on the cob, and filet mignon. (For the record, I don't go out and buy filet - or any steaks! - we get our beef by the quarter, so there's all kinds of good cuts in our freezer.) We ate good and the steak was perhaps the best steak I've ever grilled.


An option for delicate things that are pickled is pasteurization. Instead of a rolling boil, temp is kept between 180-185° for 30 minutes. Here's a page that talks about it. https://twiceastasty.com/canning/techniques/#:~:text=Pasteurizing,F and 185°F.

I've only done this with some small whole pickles that were lacto fermented. They were definitely crisp, but didn't run a comparison with BWB for a real test.

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## djg

trc65 said:


> An option for delicate things that are pickled is pasteurization. Instead of a rolling boil, temp is kept between 180-185° for 30 minutes. Here's a page that talks about it. https://twiceastasty.com/canning/techniques/#:~:text=Pasteurizing,F and 185°F.
> 
> I've only done this with some small whole pickles that were lacto fermented. They were definitely crisp, but didn't run a comparison with BWB for a real test.


I did my last batch of pickles that way after you had mentioned it, so well see.

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## B Rogers

trc65 said:


> Never heard of that pepper before, but it's going on my seed list for next year!


Do you typically order seed from the same place each year or mix it up depending on availability? We’ve ordered from a few places but seem to run into the fact that there’s always a few things out of stock.

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## djg

B Rogers said:


> Do you typically order seed from the same place each year or mix it up depending on availability? We’ve ordered from a few places but seem to run into the fact that there’s always a few things out of stock.


I was thinking about ordering these off of ebay, but wonder about reliability.


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## B Rogers

djg said:


> I was thinking about ordering these off of ebay, but wonder about reliability.


Yeah I try to steer clear of both Amazon and eBay on seed ordering because I’m leery of what I’ll actually get.

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## trc65

I try to minimize the number of places I order from to keep shipping costs down. Two main sources for flowers, and one for veggies. I get catalogs from about 10 different places.

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## B Rogers

What’s your recommendation on supplier for veggie seed if you don’t mind?

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## trc65

Sorry, meant to include that in previous post.

Main supplier, Jung Seeds - WI based seed company. I also periodically buy from Johnny's Selected Seed in ME. 

These aren't the only good seed sources by far, just two that have carried the varieties I want.

Most of my flower seed comes from Swallowtail Garden Seed in CA, and Summerhill seed in IL. Both of these are small independent seed suppliers who are online only, no catalogs.

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## trc65

Here are the tomatoes almost done. 

Sometimes, especially with larger tomatoes, pieces will form a pocket of moisture with dry tissue all around it. They will eventually dry, but to speed up the process, I'll go through and slit those pieces.





This afternoon I canned the peaches that were left. The count, 15 pints of jam, 9 pints canned, one sour cream peach pie, one batch of cobbler, and several eaten fresh with juice dripping down my chin.

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## djg

sprucegum said:


> They are alderman AKA telephone pole peas. Very old open pollinated variety, I let some ripen for next year's seed. I plant a bit over a half pound in two rows spaced about 8" apart and 50' long. Two closely spaced rows one trellis  . I've grown other varieties that are probably better but I like to look at them when they go over the top of a 6' trellis


I'm planning on making changes in my garden for next year. I like your idea of double sided trellis. It would be a space saver in my garden and I could protect two rows easier. I could plant pole beans on one side and those peas you have (once I find a seller) on the other. The stupid question for you is, does the trellis get too crowded with vines making picking difficult?


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## Wildthings

trc65 said:


> , *one sour cream peach pie, *


that sounds good. please tell me more

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## trc65

The official name is 'Sour Cream Peach Pecan Pie'. Guess I forgot to mention it also had pecans.  

Single (bottom) crust, lots of peaches with a sour cream custard, topped with brown sugar and pecan mix. Really takes it to the next level of peach pies. 









Sour Cream Peach Pecan Pie


Fresh peaches, good southern pecans and real vanilla make this pie a special summertime treat. —Sherrell Dikes, Holiday Island, Arkansas




www.tasteofhome.com





Just a note or two. If your peaches are really fresh and juicy, you may want to cut down just slightly on the amount unless you have a tall pie plate. Too many peaches plus custard mix equals an unholy mess in your oven. Also a pie ring is needed as when using fresh peaches it may take a little more cooking time for everything to firm up and you don't want burnt edges.

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## sprucegum

djg said:


> I'm planning on making changes in my garden for next year. I like your idea of double sided trellis. It would be a space saver in my garden and I could protect two rows easier. I could plant pole beans on one side and those peas you have (once I find a seller) on the other. The stupid question for you is, does the trellis get too crowded with vines making picking difficult?


No, I don't have a problem with overcrowding. I use a push planter with the pea and bean plate which drops the seed aprox 1" apart and I guesstimate the row spacing at about 8". I'm not sure that peas and beans would work well as the vines tend to intermingle from one side to the other and differing maturity dates might also be an issue. My suggestion would be just to plant a short double row of each. I like to get my vines and trellis out of the garden as soon as I'm done with the harvest so that I can easily deal with the weeds that always like to grow in the narrow space between the rows. Alderman peas should be easy to find online but I find the online prices to be high, most years our local farm supply has them in bulk. Last year I got caught having to pay the online price of close to $20/ half pound, so I saved some ripe peas for seed, and I did the same this year.

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## Nature Man

The Sour Cream Peach Pecan Pie sounds like a slice of Heaven! Chuck

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## djg

sprucegum said:


> ....... My suggestion would be just to plant a short double row of each....


Da! Didn't think of that. Right now, my beans are on a 16' hog panel set 6' high. I'd just plant 8' double rows of each (peas/beans).

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## Eric Rorabaugh

Wildthings said:


> that sounds good. please tell me more


I was gonna say the same thing!

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## djg

Well, I think I've located a source for three new additions to my garden next year. I hope these are the same varieties I've mentioned here. Never heard of the company. Any thoughts?



Shopping Cart - Reimer Seeds


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## sprucegum

djg said:


> Well, I think I've located a source for three new additions to my garden next year. I hope these are the same varieties I've mentioned here. Never heard of the company. Any thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> Shopping Cart - Reimer Seeds


I see they have the telephone pole peas and the price by it pound is reasonable.

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## trc65

Heard of them but not bought from them. They seem to have a good selection of varieties. 

The bean seed I looked at is treated seed which I want. So many seed companies have stopped selling treated seed to appear more environmentally "friendly".

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## djg

sprucegum said:


> I see they have the telephone pole peas and the price by it pound is reasonable.


I'm only going to have one or two (rethinking layout again) 16' rows. maybe I should get 1/4 lb instead of 50 packet. Would the unused portion be viable for next year?

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## djg

trc65 said:


> Heard of them but not bought from them. They seem to have a good selection of varieties.
> 
> The bean seed I looked at is treated seed which I want. So many seed companies have stopped selling treated seed to appear more environmentally "friendly".


Ok, to show my ignorance again, what's treated/untreated? Were these treated seeds from this supplier? I did not see it mentioned anywhere.


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## trc65

Treated seed has a fungicide applied to the seed and it is usually pink. The fungicide keeps the seed from rotting while it's germinating and you'll usually get better stands. Thiram is a fungicide that has been used for years as a seed treatment. Should wear gloves when handling it. They may not have seed treatment on all seed lots, depending on source.

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## JerseyHighlander

B Rogers said:


> What’s your recommendation on supplier for veggie seed if you don’t mind?


Aside from Johny's already mentioned, I found another, also in Maine that I'm really liking so far. Quite a selection and very reasonable pricing. 









Co-op Seeds, Gardening Supplies, Trees, Potatoes, Bulbs - Fedco Seeds


Fedco is a cooperative seed and garden supply company. Its divisions, Fedco Seeds, Organic Growers Supply, Fedco Trees, Potatoes, Onions and Exotics, and Fedco Bulbs, offer untreated vegetable, herb and flower seed; soil amendments, cover crops, garden tools, organic growing supplies, gardening...



www.fedcoseeds.com





Baker Creek is another with lots of old heirlooms and uncommon stuff. https://www.rareseeds.com/store/vegetables

And then there is Seed Savers https://www.seedsavers.org/. - Just recently got some really cool, very old varieties from them.

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## trc65

Just took a look at Fedco's site. They have some great offerings, particularly fruit varieties.

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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> Just took a look at Fedco's site. They have some great offerings, particularly fruit varieties.


Yah, once I get north and have some real land to plant on I plan on looking deeper into that section. So far they've been a good company to deal with and I know their seeds are going to be acclimated for a short season with cold winters.

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## sprucegum

djg said:


> I'm only going to have one or two (rethinking layout again) 16' rows. maybe I should get 1/4 lb instead of 50 packet. Would the unused portion be viable for next year?


I've had good luck with 2year old pea seeds. If in doubt sprout a few before planting time to check the germination. I doubt you would have many left over anyway, the way I plant it takes 20-25 seeds/ft of double row. If you do plant them remember that they do not tolerate heat well and they must be planted early. A light frost won't hurt them a bit, I plant mid April and it's not unusual to get a light frost mid May. One of the best gardeners I ever knew would prepare his row in the fall and spread his wood ashes on the row in the spring to melt the snow and warm the soil faster.

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## JerseyHighlander

I got something unusual from Seed Savers recently. It's an old French heirloom winter squash. We used to get a lot of winter squash and pumpkins from our CSA farm share and my wife learned to make one of my all time favorite things, my Grandmother's Pumpkin Bread, from the fresh pumpkin so now I'm trying to make sure we have a good supply for this year. So far, the squash is one of the few things the pestilence in my cursed yard haven't been able to destroy. 

If nothing else I wanted it ready to plant next year but figured just maybe I have enough time left this season if I get it in the ground fast. Starting it indoors, using the soil blocks and my new grow lights, I had germination in less than 48 hours and just six days in, they are going in the ground with an impressive start. 





This is just four days from putting the seed in. I found the leaf structure very cool, had to take pictures. For scale, the stems are roughly 2" apart.

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## Sprung

Today was a busy day in the garden and kitchen. Picked more beans - 2 gallon bucket filled - got them cut up, blanched, and frozen. Some more freezer corn. Picked some shishito, poblano, and cubanelle peppers - roasted them on the grill, cut them up, and froze them in portions for adding into dishes through the winter. Garlic, shallots, and one of the varieties of onions we planted were ready to be harvested, so pulled all those. In anticipation I took about 30ish minutes the other night and, using some old pine boards that I had laying around, I built a drying rack. The onions and shallots that were too small to try to cure and store I cut up and have in the dehydrator now. Pulled most of the carrots too. Some of them could've used more time in the ground, but they were too close together - I wasn't as aggressive as I should have been in thinning out the carrots, onions, and shallots.





After all that (plus some other work around the house), I planted a handful of different seeds - hopefully with enough time left to get a fall harvest. Really wanted to get these seeds in the ground a couple weeks ago, but I have been short on time and I had to wait until I could harvest some things and pull some plants to have the space.

Tomorrow afternoon I need to pull all the green onions. Those I'll cut into small pieces and freeze - two half gallon mason jars full of green onions in our freezer does us well for a year, until we can harvest them again. Whatever doesn't fit in the jars I'll dehydrate. Got some cucumbers we picked and can probably get a couple jars of pickles from them - if we don't eat them first.

This is our third year gardening and I have to say that I have been amazed each year at just how much food we are able to grow (and how much of that we've been able to start putting up for winter) in such a relatively small area. We have 220 square feet of raised beds, a handful of pots for herbs, and have been trying to plant or expand fruit in other areas - raspberries, blackberries, elderberries, rhubarb - with varying amounts of success. Going to be getting some currant bushes from someone to transplant this fall. A small area (12 sq ft) of our raised beds is strawberries, but we're thinking of maybe getting one of those tower garden things to see how it would do with strawberries, and maybe another for herbs.

The current state of our tomato jungle (plus a couple tomatillo plants in there too). Last year our tomatoes didn't do so well and this year I planted them in one of our new beds and used the same spacing as I have the last two years. This year they just exploded - and life hadn't yielded us an opportunity to do any sort of trimming. It looks like we'll be starting to harvest tomatoes in a week or so - and that's going to be a challenge with how dense the tomato jungle is! I will definitely not be planting them so closely next year. I did about 16" spacing on these - close enough that I was able to wire tie the cages together for better support.





A note on the tomatoes not doing well last year - this year I've got some peppers planted in that same area. Those pepper plants are not doing well, but the pepper plants several feet away in one of the new beds have taken off. After doing some research I've come to suspect that either some soil or compost we bought last year is contaminated with herbicide remnants. There are some things I've noticed will still grow well in those areas, so I plan to plant those types of plants in the areas that I suspect are contaminated for the next few years or so until the herbicide (or whatever it is) hopefully breaks down. If anyone has any ideas on how to perhaps solve this issue, or at least help it along, I'm open to ideas. Especially ideas that don't involve having to remove all the dirt and replace it with new stuff.

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## trc65

Great harvest! Glad you are having so much success.

First off, I don't think you are going to have to replace any soil. 

Is it just peppers and tomatoes that didn't do well or other plants also? What plants are growing okay in that area? 

What do the pepper plants that aren't doing well look like when compared to the "good" peppers? Just generally not as big, or is there something else in their appearance that is off? Leaves not as big, shortened internodes, leaf shape, color... If you could take some pictures of good and bad plants, including whole plant pictures and pictures of individual leaves, that would help diagnose, particularly if it is related to herbicide(s).

As to the area that's not growing so well - do you have any history of the compost or soil? Private source, community composting, etc. I ask because you mention possible herbicide persistence. 

Without looking at dozens of possibilities, a majority of herbicides that would be in use on cropland around you should have plantback restrictions of a year or less. There are a few that have restrictions as long as 24 months. However many times, plantback restrictions for vegetable crops aren't listed unless those crops are commercially grown in that area. Regardless, I would expect to see no effect from herbicide persistence by 24 months after application, unless, the soil came from a Christmas tree farm or other managed forestry sites that had some specific herbicides applied. Some of the herbicides used on conifers can be active at very low concentrations, for a longer period of time, when vegetables are grown on that treated soil. Could the soil have possibly come from a commercial lot that had been sprayed in the past? 

Any other differences you can think of that are specific to that bed? In other words is the only difference the source of compost/soil. I'm thinking fertility sources, source of wood for the bed, mulch, etc. 

Lots of questions, but they should help narrow the possibilities of what is happening.

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## djg

You did have a busy day. I've tried Poblano peppers before and they were quite hot. Ended up pickling them to use in dishes. I thought they would be mild like those you get in a restaurant. How are yours?


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## Nature Man

trc65 said:


> Great harvest! Glad you are having so much success.
> 
> First off, I don't think you are going to have to replace any soil.
> 
> Is it just peppers and tomatoes that didn't do well or other plants also? What plants are growing okay in that area?
> 
> What do the pepper plants that aren't doing well look like when compared to the "good" peppers? Just generally not as big, or is there something else in their appearance that is off? Leaves not as big, shortened internodes, leaf shape, color... If you could take some pictures of good and bad plants, including whole plant pictures and pictures of individual leaves, that would help diagnose, particularly if it is related to herbicide(s).
> 
> As to the area that's not growing so well - do you have any history of the compost or soil? Private source, community composting, etc. I ask because you mention possible herbicide persistence.
> 
> Without looking at dozens of possibilities, a majority of herbicides that would be in use on cropland around you should have plantback restrictions of a year or less. There are a few that have restrictions as long as 24 months. However many times, plantback restrictions for vegetable crops aren't listed unless those crops are commercially grown in that area. Regardless, I would expect to see no effect from herbicide persistence by 24 months after application, unless, the soil came from a Christmas tree farm or other managed forestry sites that had some specific herbicides applied. Some of the herbicides used on conifers can be active at very low concentrations, for a longer period of time, when vegetables are grown on that treated soil. Could the soil have possibly come from a commercial lot that had been sprayed in the past?
> 
> Any other differences you can think of that are specific to that bed? In other words is the only difference the source of compost/soil. I'm thinking fertility sources, source of wood for the bed, mulch, etc.
> 
> Lots of questions, but they should help narrow the possibilities of what is happening.


When I was actively gardening years back, I read a book and several articles about companion planting, which advised that certain plants should not be planted next to others, and vice versa, to achieve optimal potential. Whether that relates to pollination and/or root dominance, or other factors, would be an interesting debate. The other point of interest is soil viability after harvest, and how some crops really leach out, in essence, many needed components that are needed for future crop rotations, while other crops are contributors to the soil. Another topic for debate, and how we can best look at healthy soil enhancements, like adding some species of sawdust (since this forum is all about woodworking), or other forms of organic materials to achieve better soils for crops. Chuck

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## djg

I'm back on my garlic kick. Does anyone ever grow Music? If so how is it? Mild?








(Pre order) Chesnok Red Garlic (Naturally Grown) Seed Garlic | michiganherbcompany


Ships in September for fall planting!GROWN NATURALLY WITHOUT THE USE OF CHEMICALS AND PESTICIDESChesnok Red Naturally Grown Garlic Bulbs Hardneck GarlicPurple Stripe9-12 Med/Large Cloves/BulbRobust, very hardy, great performer in most US RegionsGrows well in Northern and Southern StatesBeautiful...




www.michiganherbco.com


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## JerseyHighlander

djg said:


> I'm back on my garlic kick. Does anyone ever grow Music? If so how is it? Mild?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Pre order) Chesnok Red Garlic (Naturally Grown) Seed Garlic | michiganherbcompany
> 
> 
> Ships in September for fall planting!GROWN NATURALLY WITHOUT THE USE OF CHEMICALS AND PESTICIDESChesnok Red Naturally Grown Garlic Bulbs Hardneck GarlicPurple Stripe9-12 Med/Large Cloves/BulbRobust, very hardy, great performer in most US RegionsGrows well in Northern and Southern StatesBeautiful...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.michiganherbco.com


Music is Ok for me. Not fantastic but still far better than what you get in the stores. It's usually a bit hot with less of the garlicky pungency I look for. But I find it really depends on the where/how it's grown and even the climate that season. Yes, garlic can be very much like wine...
It's usually a good strong producer and stores well which I think is one reason it's popular.

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## JerseyHighlander

Nature Man said:


> When I was actively gardening years back, I read a book and several articles about companion planting, which advised that certain plants should not be planted next to others, and vice versa, to achieve optimal potential. Whether that relates to pollination and/or root dominance, or other factors, would be an interesting debate. The other point of interest is soil viability after harvest, and how some crops really leach out, in essence, many needed components that are needed for future crop rotations, while other crops are contributors to the soil. Another topic for debate, and how we can best look at healthy soil enhancements, like adding some species of sawdust (since this forum is all about woodworking), or other forms of organic materials to achieve better soils for crops. Chuck


I think you're talking about The Vegetable Gardener's Bible, Smith - Good book, I've found it useful for years. Sawdust is a fantastic soil amendment, I use it all the time and the worms love it, especially sawdust from bucking oak firewood with the chainsaw, it always goes on the garden or in the compost. 

Just a section of the two summary boxes for tomatoes and peppers from The Vegetable Gardener's Bible, Smith. It does say don't follow peppers with tomatoes, even though they are ok grown together.


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## Sprung

trc65 said:


> Great harvest! Glad you are having so much success.
> 
> First off, I don't think you are going to have to replace any soil.
> 
> Is it just peppers and tomatoes that didn't do well or other plants also? What plants are growing okay in that area?
> 
> What do the pepper plants that aren't doing well look like when compared to the "good" peppers? Just generally not as big, or is there something else in their appearance that is off? Leaves not as big, shortened internodes, leaf shape, color... If you could take some pictures of good and bad plants, including whole plant pictures and pictures of individual leaves, that would help diagnose, particularly if it is related to herbicide(s).
> 
> As to the area that's not growing so well - do you have any history of the compost or soil? Private source, community composting, etc. I ask because you mention possible herbicide persistence.
> 
> Without looking at dozens of possibilities, a majority of herbicides that would be in use on cropland around you should have plantback restrictions of a year or less. There are a few that have restrictions as long as 24 months. However many times, plantback restrictions for vegetable crops aren't listed unless those crops are commercially grown in that area. Regardless, I would expect to see no effect from herbicide persistence by 24 months after application, unless, the soil came from a Christmas tree farm or other managed forestry sites that had some specific herbicides applied. Some of the herbicides used on conifers can be active at very low concentrations, for a longer period of time, when vegetables are grown on that treated soil. Could the soil have possibly come from a commercial lot that had been sprayed in the past?
> 
> Any other differences you can think of that are specific to that bed? In other words is the only difference the source of compost/soil. I'm thinking fertility sources, source of wood for the bed, mulch, etc.
> 
> Lots of questions, but they should help narrow the possibilities of what is happening.



The soil that I used as the base for all of my beds - the original beds, as well as the new beds - all came from the same spot. As far as I know, I'm the only one who has gotten dirt from this location, so it is the same dirt for both. Both times some leaves/mulch from our city's compost pile were mixed in. The beds that I'm having an issue in I did add both bagged soil and bagged compost from cow manure - both were purchased at Menards and I couldn't tell you what brand and I can't find it on their website. They were both from their more budget minded selections of bagged soil and compost.

In the bed that I'm having trouble with I've had peas, lettuces, celery, and carrots and all have seemed to do well. Might've had something else in there at some point, but can't remember for certain. The brussel sprout seeds I tossed in the same bed about 5 or 6 weeks ago also seem to be doing well. But the tomatoes and peppers that I've had in that bed... The other original bed hasn't seemed to pose as severe an issue, and had the same bagged soil and compost added to it. But I haven't grown peppers in that bed and the tomatoes I grew in there did a little better overall, but still not great - and nothing like my plants look like this year. The other bed has had garlic, onions, leeks, cucumbers, various small greens and lettuces, and green beans and all have seemed to have done just fine in that bed.

In those same original beds is a 3x4' area where we have strawberries growing. The first year they were nice sized strawberries, and last year and this year (after adding some of the same bagged soil and compost) they are considerably smaller in size and the plants do get some brown on the edges of the leaves.

The new beds I didn't add any bagged soil or compost after getting them going this year. This year I have been fertilizing with this in all the beds - about once every 3 or 4 weeks.

Some comparison pics, with explanation as to which beds their in:

This is a Chocolate Beauty (bell pepper) that is growing very well. About 2' tall and loaded with peppers that all look great and are growing nice and getting to a nice size. I'm really excited for these to mature. This plant been nestled in with beans and cucumbers trying to overtake it, but we keep moving them out when they try to take over.





This is a Purple Beauty (bell pepper) that was bought from the same garden center as the Chocolate Beauty, was the same size plant at transplanting, and was transplanted at the same time. I've picked a few very small peppers from it - about 1 1/2" long, 1" diameter and they've already ripened and changed color to purple. Seems like it's doing what I've read plants will sometimes to - it's stressed so it's trying to get seeds produced as quickly as possible. (Like my spring planting of bok choy bolting not long after starting to grow up because we got some really hot weather pretty quickly.) This plant is about 1' tall and definitely not filled out. Pepper plants in this bed have never really gotten more than about 12 to 15" tall, at best, and haven't typically produced much fruit, and what fruit has been produced by plants in this bed usually isn't of the size one would expect. Except the shishitos which, while I suspect would grow bigger and produce even more in one of the newer beds, have still overall been pretty good producers of peppers of the size I'd expect to get from them.





A couple more shots of pepper plants from the same bed. All are like this in some way. The shishito peppers are the only ones that seem to be doing ok (at least 4 of the 5 plants are), but I'm sure would be doing much better if in a different bed.













Here are some shots of pepper plants in one of the other new beds. These are all growing well with good size plants and an abundance of fruit growing and getting to expected size. Noting a little of the yellow/brown showing up on a few of the leaves here just very recently.

Cubanelles





Forgot to get a pic, but have a few bell pepper plants (that the squash keeps trying to overtake) that are doing well and setting some nice fruits on as well.

And one of our Poblanos in the new bed, which I've noticed is exhibiting a fair amount of the yellow/brown now, but it a good sized plant and is growing some nice fruits on it.

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## trc65

Thanks for the great pictures ond narrative! That definitely helps eliminate some potential causes, even if I'm not sure exactly what's going on.

1. I'm almost certain that herbicide contamination is not the cause of your problems. It would be very rare for bagged soils and compost to have any biologically active herbicide amounts in them. Furthermore, if there was contamination, it would affect more than just peppers and tomatoes. Finally, I see no symptoms of herbicide injury, and some would definitely be present with the poor plant growth you are seeing.

2. The lesions you are showing on the peppers is likely either bacterial spot (Xanthomonas), bacterial speck (Pseudomonas) or Cercospora leaf spot. It's tough to tell for sure from pictures and without a lab analysis. Here are a couple publications for you to look at. 









Bacterial Spot of Tomato


Bacterial spot of tomato is a potentially devastating disease that, in severe cases, can lead to unmarketable fruit and even plant death. Bacterial spot can occur wherever tomatoes are grown, but is found most frequently in warm, wet climates, as well as in greenhouses. Symptoms and management...




hort.extension.wisc.edu













Bacterial Speck of Tomato


Bacterial speck is a common disease of tomato that occurs worldwide. The disease can substantially reduce yield when it severely affects leaves early in the growing season, and can have an even greater impact on quality when symptoms occur on tomato fruit. Learn about this disease and ways to...




hort.extension.wisc.edu










Pseudomonas Bacterial Spot - Peppers - Ontario CropIPM







www.omafra.gov.on.ca





I lean towards it being one of the bacterial leaf spots instead of the cercospora. One way to potentially tell the difference between the bacteria is the Xanthomonas is known to cause fruit lessions while the Pseudomonas doesn't. No real treatment other than planting clean seed/transplants and remove and destroy all vegetation each year to prevent overwintering of the bacteria (or fungus if that is the case).

Having gone through a little plant pathology lecture, I don't think the foliar diseases are the cause of the stunting and poor growth, rather the stunted plants are showing more susceptibility to infection.

3. Since you are fertilizing the beds similarly I don't believe there are any fertility issues. Nor do I see any fertility deficiency symptoms.

4. Having said all that, the only other thing that pops into my mind is soil compaction/structure. When you were adding the top soil and compost to the beds, was it just poured in, or was it all mixed together along with the existing soil? Bagged soil and compost don't always have great soil structure, and if they aren't mixed well with existing soil, they can form layers that compact and can prevent root growth through those layers. An easy way to test that theory is to push a rod as far as you can into the soil in several areas and see if you can detect any differences. May be a long shot that compaction is an issue, but it's easy enough to check.

5. Diagnosing plant problems is never easy, and sometimes there is no clear answer. Going forward, I'd do what you already suggested and plant things other than pepper and tomatoes in the affected areas for a couple years. Also, if the stunted pepper plants aren't really going to produce anything I'd remove them now along with any dropped leaves to reduce disease innoculum that may infect your good looking plants. This fall after everything has frosted off, remove all tomato and pepper foliage including dropped leaves and burn or bag it. 

6. One other thing to consider is root knot nematode. You cant see the nematodes with your naked eye, but you can definitely diagnose the damage from visual symptoms of the roots. This particular nematode does infect a wide range of crops to varying degrees, but does not infect corn. Here is a fact sheet.









Root-Knot Nematode


Root-knot nematodes are small, soilborne, worm-like organisms that infect many agricultural and horticultural plants. This publication describes the symptoms, and management of root-knot nematodes in Wisconsin.




hort.extension.wisc.edu





If you decide to remove some/all of the pepper plants, dig them keeping the root mass intact and wash so you can compare the root appearance to pictures of root knot nematode damage. 

Hope some of this helps!

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## JerseyHighlander

Sprung said:


> The soil that I used as the base for all of my beds - the original beds, as well as the new beds - all came from the same spot. As far as I know, I'm the only one who has gotten dirt from this location, so it is the same dirt for both. Both times some leaves/mulch from our city's compost pile were mixed in. The beds that I'm having an issue in I did add both bagged soil and bagged compost from cow manure - both were purchased at Menards and I couldn't tell you what brand and I can't find it on their website. They were both from their more budget minded selections of bagged soil and compost.
> 
> In the bed that I'm having trouble with I've had peas, lettuces, celery, and carrots and all have seemed to do well. Might've had something else in there at some point, but can't remember for certain. The brussel sprout seeds I tossed in the same bed about 5 or 6 weeks ago also seem to be doing well. But the tomatoes and peppers that I've had in that bed... The other original bed hasn't seemed to pose as severe an issue, and had the same bagged soil and compost added to it. But I haven't grown peppers in that bed and the tomatoes I grew in there did a little better overall, but still not great - and nothing like my plants look like this year. The other bed has had garlic, onions, leeks, cucumbers, various small greens and lettuces, and green beans and all have seemed to have done just fine in that bed.
> 
> In those same original beds is a 3x4' area where we have strawberries growing. The first year they were nice sized strawberries, and last year and this year (after adding some of the same bagged soil and compost) they are considerably smaller in size and the plants do get some brown on the edges of the leaves.
> 
> The new beds I didn't add any bagged soil or compost after getting them going this year. This year I have been fertilizing with this in all the beds - about once every 3 or 4 weeks.
> 
> Some comparison pics, with explanation as to which beds their in:
> 
> This is a Chocolate Beauty (bell pepper) that is growing very well. About 2' tall and loaded with peppers that all look great and are growing nice and getting to a nice size. I'm really excited for these to mature. This plant been nestled in with beans and cucumbers trying to overtake it, but we keep moving them out when they try to take over.
> 
> View attachment 230372
> 
> This is a Purple Beauty (bell pepper) that was bought from the same garden center as the Chocolate Beauty, was the same size plant at transplanting, and was transplanted at the same time. I've picked a few very small peppers from it - about 1 1/2" long, 1" diameter and they've already ripened and changed color to purple. Seems like it's doing what I've read plants will sometimes to - it's stressed so it's trying to get seeds produced as quickly as possible. (Like my spring planting of bok choy bolting not long after starting to grow up because we got some really hot weather pretty quickly.) This plant is about 1' tall and definitely not filled out. Pepper plants in this bed have never really gotten more than about 12 to 15" tall, at best, and haven't typically produced much fruit, and what fruit has been produced by plants in this bed usually isn't of the size one would expect. Except the shishitos which, while I suspect would grow bigger and produce even more in one of the newer beds, have still overall been pretty good producers of peppers of the size I'd expect to get from them.
> 
> View attachment 230375
> 
> A couple more shots of pepper plants from the same bed. All are like this in some way. The shishito peppers are the only ones that seem to be doing ok (at least 4 of the 5 plants are), but I'm sure would be doing much better if in a different bed.
> 
> View attachment 230376
> 
> View attachment 230370
> 
> View attachment 230369
> 
> Here are some shots of pepper plants in one of the other new beds. These are all growing well with good size plants and an abundance of fruit growing and getting to expected size. Noting a little of the yellow/brown showing up on a few of the leaves here just very recently.
> 
> Cubanelles
> 
> View attachment 230371
> 
> Forgot to get a pic, but have a few bell pepper plants (that the squash keeps trying to overtake) that are doing well and setting some nice fruits on as well.
> 
> And one of our Poblanos in the new bed, which I've noticed is exhibiting a fair amount of the yellow/brown now, but it a good sized plant and is growing some nice fruits on it.
> 
> View attachment 230373
> 
> View attachment 230374


I think it's calcium deficiency in the peppers.
Could make a foliar spray with crushed eggshells dissolved in Apple Cider Vinegar.

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## Wildthings

JerseyHighlander said:


> I think it's calcium deficiency in the peppers.
> Could make a foliar spray with crushed eggshells dissolved in Apple Cider Vinegar.


I used TUMS dissolved in water as a foliar spray for my tomatoes and it worked well.

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## JerseyHighlander

I planted my garden gorilla's today. Otherwise known as the Potimarron Squash.

Seven days exactly since putting the seeds in the soil blocks. Having these grow lights is really a game changer. Maybe I just need to hang a few grow lights outside in the garden?  Now I just need to keep some damned rodent from eating them.

This is impressive growth for seven days since the seed hit the soil. Those soil blocks are 2"x2" for scale. The smaller plants on the right are a Russian Cuke.





The true leaves just starting to come in, really neat vein structure.





We've been getting killed here with a bad drought the past several weeks, the parts of my yard that aren't getting watered look like a dead wasteland. The trees are turning brown and losing leaves like it's fall. So far the forcast is calling for an inch of rain on Monday, we'll see.

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## JerseyHighlander

Wildthings said:


> I used TUMS dissolved in water as a foliar spray for my tomatoes and it worked well.


That's funny. The guy I learned about the eggshell/bone spray from said you could use most blackboard chalk in a pinch.


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## Sprung

Thanks, guys! Unfortunately I'm going to be away from the garden for most of this week, so doing anything will have to wait until Friday - but I have a good idea of what I need to look into and do. 

Tim, yes, I did work the soil and compost in - we have a twist tiller that is great for working in the beds and I do make sure it's loose before planting each spring.

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## Nature Man

JerseyHighlander said:


> I think you're talking about The Vegetable Gardener's Bible, Smith - Good book, I've found it useful for years. Sawdust is a fantastic soil amendment, I use it all the time and the worms love it, especially sawdust from bucking oak firewood with the chainsaw, it always goes on the garden or in the compost.
> 
> Just a section of the two summary boxes for tomatoes and peppers from The Vegetable Gardener's Bible, Smith. It does say don't follow peppers with tomatoes, even though they are ok grown together.
> View attachment 230341
> View attachment 230342


Book title was actually, A-Z of Companion Planting by Pamela Allardice. Reallly opened my eyes to compatabilities of various crops, similar to the excerpts you have included herein. Chuck

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## sprucegum

Shell beans are about ready. Hopefully we will have one of my favorite late summer side dishes for supper, fresh succotash.

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## trc65

My begonias are starting to look good.

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## trc65

Picked the first muskmelon today and starting to can tomatoes. For reference, the largest melon weighs in at 8 lbs.

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## djg

Seed Saving....
I just got several packets of seeds I ordered and was wondering if there's any special way to store them over the Winter?

2) I thought there was something about not saving non-heirloom seeds. I bought some 'Super Romas' plants from the local nursery this Spring and I'd like to try some plants myself next year. Storage?

It's sad I'm planning next year's garden now while this year is still going on. The okra is barely producing since we've had two weeks of cool weather. Tomatoes look terrible and are barely producing. The only single heirloom tomato that I have looks great. Sunflowers are doing good and my fourth planting of green beans are about 2' high. I'm guessing potatoes need digging since the vegetation has died back.


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## trc65

Seeds storage should be cool and dry. I keep mine in the basement on a shelf next to exterior wall. As long as seeds aren't exposed to excessive heat, many will be good for years. Generally, larger seeds won't remain viable as long as smaller seeds.

The problem associated with saving seed from plants from the store is many of them are hybrids and may not grow true to form. Depends also on the type of plant and how pollination occurs. For plants that primarily self pollinate you will have good success saving seed and having it grow true to form. Those that are insect or wind pollinated are much less likely to grow true. 

Potatoes will actually store well in the ground. I've already vine killed mine, but I won't dig them until October when it cools down enough to cool off the basement stairwell in the garage. You may loose some to varmints or rot, but not as many if you dig them now and don't have cool storage for them.

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## Sprung

We were away for several days - visited my wife's family before school started. We were supposed to visit my family as well, but had something that came up that has us putting that trip off until later on. Tim, we were kinda down your way, but not exactly close - I might've mentioned it before, but my wife is originally from Savanna, IL, so that's where we were.

Came back to more beans - including some succotash beans ready for shelling. And a good amount of peppers. And a bunch of cucumbers. Going to harvest the celery soon so the brussel sprouts that are growing next to it have more space to grow.

Hoping tomatoes will start being ready soon. In a week or two I might lop off the tops of the tomato plants to have them stop growing upwards and focus on ripening the fruit already growing. Tomato plants are over 5' tall now - they really exploded this year. The vegetation is packed in so tight that it's hard to see all the fruit, so we're going to have to thin them a bit as well. Next year they'll be spaced farther apart...

Also, some (not all, but some) of the pepper plants that weren't looking so great are looking a little bit better. I didn't get a chance to do anything with them before we left. But there's at least a few that I will definitely be pulling out this weekend.

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## Sprung

djg said:


> It's sad I'm planning next year's garden now while this year is still going on.



Dan, I don't think that's necessarily sad or bad. As the season has gone along and as we've been eating some of what we've been harvesting - and especially seeing how we like the taste of varieties that are new to us - we've been making notes of what worked well and what didn't, what we'd like to grow again and what we didn't like, as well as taking a look at some other varieties of things that we want to try next year.

Sometimes things just don't work out so well - sometimes it's your own fault and sometimes it's something completely out of your control - and sometimes things go better than expected. No matter how it goes, it's all an opportunity for you to learn and grow as a gardener and as a person.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## Sprung

Dan, as far as the Super Romas go, a quick Google search for "super roma seeds" came up with a few options, such as this one that shows up in multiple results. Don't know if that's the same variety as what you've bought/had, but maybe it is and could make purchasing seed an option.

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## trc65

The Heinz variety looks similar to the roma variety I grow 'Mariana'. The Heinz variety looks a little blockier, Mariana is a little more elongated. Incredible size on mine this year, some almost 6"long and weighing 8 oz. I use them for drying, sauce and canning quartered. 

From the description of the Heinz variety, the Mariana are a little larger plants. I've been growing the Mariana for about 12 years now and haven't found another Roma variety that can compete. May have to get some of that Heinz variety next year and see how it compares.

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## djg

Any way to tell if a seed will be true if you save seeds from your crop? I just ordered these, among others, from Baker Creek.









Zucchino Rampicante Squash


70 days. The famous Italian heirloom vining zucchini and pumpkin; long slender 15-inch fruit has a flat bulb at the bottom. It is one of the best eating summer squash: very tender, mild and sweet tasting. The flavor is superb! This squash is also great as winter squash. The Italians use it for...




www.rareseeds.com





A friend gave my Dad seeds what he called 'Zuchetta'. These look similar. They were great eating raw. 20 seeds is enough for several years, but I'd like to save extra to pass around.


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## Herb G.

djg said:


> Any way to tell if a seed will be true if you save seeds from your crop? I just ordered these, among others, from Baker Creek.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zucchino Rampicante Squash
> 
> 
> 70 days. The famous Italian heirloom vining zucchini and pumpkin; long slender 15-inch fruit has a flat bulb at the bottom. It is one of the best eating summer squash: very tender, mild and sweet tasting. The flavor is superb! This squash is also great as winter squash. The Italians use it for...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rareseeds.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A friend gave my Dad seeds what he called 'Zuchetta'. These look similar. They were great eating raw. 20 seeds is enough for several years, but I'd like to save extra to pass around.


Those things look like a constipated snake.

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## trc65

Used up the last of the fresh pears tonight making this.





Caramel pear pudding.









Caramel Pear Pudding


Don't expect this old-fashioned dessert to last long. The delicate pears and irresistible caramel topping make it a winner whenever I serve it. It's nice to have a tempting fall cake that puts the season's best pears to excellent use. —Sharon Mensing, Greenfield, Iowa




www.tasteofhome.com

Reactions: Like 1 | EyeCandy! 4


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## trc65

Picked the first beans from the pole limas tonight. Nice looking beans,but I'm need to find a different method for the trellis. Just using cattle panels and the beans are so thick climbing up and down both sides that you really have to dig to find the pods.

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## Herb G.

Hey @trc65 , how about something like this instead?





Trellis Plus – 5' x 60' | Johnny's Selected Seeds


Super-strong nylon cord trellis. 7" mesh net is ideal for climbing vines, vegetables and flowers. Also used in a horizontal position as support for tall, ...




www.johnnyseeds.com

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## Wildthings

trc65 said:


> Used up the last of the fresh pears tonight making this.
> 
> View attachment 230650
> 
> Caramel pear pudding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caramel Pear Pudding
> 
> 
> Don't expect this old-fashioned dessert to last long. The delicate pears and irresistible caramel topping make it a winner whenever I serve it. It's nice to have a tempting fall cake that puts the season's best pears to excellent use. —Sharon Mensing, Greenfield, Iowa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tasteofhome.com


that recipe has been printed and I'm going to find me some pears tomorrow!!

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## trc65

Herb G. said:


> Hey @trc65 , how about something like this instead?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trellis Plus – 5' x 60' | Johnny's Selected Seeds
> 
> 
> Super-strong nylon cord trellis. 7" mesh net is ideal for climbing vines, vegetables and flowers. Also used in a horizontal position as support for tall, ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.johnnyseeds.com


Thanks Herb, that might actually work with what I've been thinking about. I need to go taller so the beans don't double back on themselves. Been thinking about making a long inverted "V" trellis (think swing set frame) about 8 ft tall. Could use trellis netting stretched up and over it for support. I've got over 100' of old well pipe I was thinking about welding up for the structure. My only concern is weight as I'd want to move it as I rotate crops.


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## djg

I don't know if something like this would work for you:





I plan on trying one made from concrete mesh and some rigid but bendable hoops for my winter squash next year. Don't know about portability either.

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## Herb G.

trc65 said:


> Thanks Herb, that might actually work with what I've been thinking about. I need to go taller so the beans don't double back on themselves. Been thinking about making a long inverted "V" trellis (think swing set frame) about 8 ft tall. Could use trellis netting stretched up and over it for support. I've got over 100' of old well pipe I was thinking about welding up for the structure. My only concern is weight as I'd want to move it as I rotate crops.


Put it on wheels.

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## B Rogers

Any muscadine jelly experts out there?  I’ve tackled fig preserves for the first time and learned they are one of my new favorites. Pear preserves were next, and now it’s time for muscadines jelly, but I’m looking for recipes if anyone has a good one (either with or without pectin). I’m assuming I’ll likely need to use some sure jell as what I’ve read states muscadines don’t have lots of natural pectin. My grandmother has made us boat loads of jelly over the years, but as with most grandmothers, those awesome recipes are a dash of this or pour until “it looks right”. I don’t have that many years of experience just yet, so any jelly recipes you all have that you really like would be much appreciated. I’ve cooked down the first pick of muscadines into a gallon of juice, which is chilling in the fridge.


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## trc65

No recipe, but most of my jelly is made with sure jell. The only problem is you need to keep the sugar/juice amounts constant to ensure it jells properly. That may be too sweet for your taste. The other option is to cook them with your desired amount of sugar until the jelling point you are want. Here is a recipe without pectin and directions for determining jell point. 








Scuppernong or Muscadine Jelly


This old-time muscadine or scuppernong jelly recipe makes about 3 to 4 pints. The jelly is boiled until it gels, no pectin.




www.thespruceeats.com





I'm envious of your harvest. My favorite jelly is made from wild grapes which up here are only the size of peas. Since the Japanese beetles arrived up here about 10 years ago I've not been able to get enough grapes to make a batch. When I did, always used the "old fashioned" method with no added pectin.

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## B Rogers

I make all my preserves without pectin, but first time jelly making and my grandmother always used it so I am not familiar with the texture of jelly without adding pectin. Will it firm up as much or will it have more of a thick syrupy texture?


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## trc65

It will firm close to that as pectin, but is usually not quite as thick or "gelatin like" as you'd get commercially. Use the frozen saucer/spoon test, and just keep boiling until it gets to the thickness you like. Even though the recipe talks about target temperatures, I always use the saucer test to make sure it's thick enough.

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## Peter White

djg said:


> I don't know if something like this would work for you:
> 
> View attachment 230653
> 
> I plan on trying one made from concrete mesh and some rigid but bendable hoops for my winter squash next year. Don't know about portability either.


Be careful with concrete mesh as it will rust. The photo's mesh looks galvanized.

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## djg

Peter White said:


> Be careful with concrete mesh as it will rust. The photo's mesh looks galvanized.


My mesh is already rusty. Still pretty strong.


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## djg

B Rogers said:


> I make all my preserves without pectin, but first time jelly making and my grandmother always used it so I am not familiar with the texture of jelly without adding pectin. Will it firm up as much or will it have more of a thick syrupy texture?


My Mom made jelly all the time without pectin. When we picked blackberries, we would pick 1/4? of red ones to go with the ripe ones. Supposedly, there was enough pectin to make jelly jell.

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## Mike Hill

trc65 said:


> Used up the last of the fresh pears tonight making this.
> 
> View attachment 230650
> 
> Caramel pear pudding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caramel Pear Pudding
> 
> 
> Don't expect this old-fashioned dessert to last long. The delicate pears and irresistible caramel topping make it a winner whenever I serve it. It's nice to have a tempting fall cake that puts the season's best pears to excellent use. —Sharon Mensing, Greenfield, Iowa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tasteofhome.com


Oh man - that looks good!!! Never had it before


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## Mike Hill

Well this caps out a not particularly good year with growing things at the hacienda. These are the ones not already eaten off the plant.

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## trc65

Ouch!


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## Mike Hill

Could be some Star Trek creature came along and ate up all my calcium. 

 Nope - she ate salt. Most likely this year's watering cycles. Two years ago, they upped the amount charged for water and instituted a tiered rate system. The more you use the higher the rate. Climate Changers way of getting us to use less water to save the planet. So do not water as often or I'd be above $200 real quick without even knowing it. The last two years have not been a problem - we had a good amount and frequency of rain over the hot part of the year - this year is different - not much rain - not a drought but not much rain. So decided not to water as frequent, but longer - guess the dry - wet cycle resulted in this.

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## trc65

Found this wandering around my pumpkin patch.

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## JerseyHighlander

Mike Hill said:


> Well this caps out a not particularly good year with growing things at the hacienda. These are the ones not already eaten off the plant.
> 
> View attachment 230748


I've been seeing that come up a lot in the research I've been doing trying to resolve my issues. It's called blossom end rot. It's caused by a nutrient deficiency. Primarily calcium I think but feel like I'm remembering something else potentially at play too, potassium maybe.


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## trc65

Small harvest today, enough beans for a batch of Dilly Beans, some peppers to cut up and freeze, and some more tomatoes to dry.

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## trc65

JerseyHighlander said:


> I've been seeing that come up a lot in the research I've been doing trying to resolve my issues. It's called blossom end rot. It's caused by a nutrient deficiency. Primarily calcium I think but feel like I'm remembering something else potentially at play too, potassium maybe.


You are correct, it is caused by calcium deficiency. However, it is caused by calcium deficiency in the fruit. Often times you can have sufficient calcium in the soil, but still have blossom end rot. 

Several things can contribute to the condition developing including high levels of potassium, magnesium and ammonium. I won't get into the soil chemistry, but here is a fact sheet from Wisconsin Extension that does a good job of explaing the condition and how to rectify the problem.









Blossom End Rot


Ann Joy and Brian Hudelson, UW-Madison Plant Pathology Revised: 4/1/2005 Item number: XHT1140 What is blossom end rot? Blossom end rot is a physiologi




hort.extension.wisc.edu

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## Mike Hill

JerseyHighlander said:


> I've been seeing that come up a lot in the research I've been doing trying to resolve my issues. It's called blossom end rot. It's caused by a nutrient deficiency. Primarily calcium I think but feel like I'm remembering something else potentially at play too, potassium maybe.


Historically, it was usually acknowledged as being a watering problem - dryness followed up with a lot of water. Nowadays I hear more about calcium deficiency. Have not had that problem in my yard in 42 years. So unless I've had something come and suck out my soil's calcium this year ----- well.


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## trc65

If you have adequate Ca in the soil, it is most likely a watering problem, because of the way calcium moves through a plant. Calcium moves through transpiration, and because leaves transpire more than fruits, more calcium is deposited in the leaves. Calcium is not transferred from leaves to fruit. Anything that limits transpiration will result in lower calcium deposited in the plant. Long periods of high humidity will lower transpiration as will very low humidity with hot dry windy conditions. 

Even with adequate levels of Ca and good soil moisture, you can have Ca deficiency. High levels of NH4+, K+, or Mg++ may all interfere with Ca++ uptake by the plants. Low pH can also affect Ca uptake.
P
Bottom line, if you had good looking tomatoes last year, didn't do something really wacky with fertilizer this year, it's a watering problem.

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## Fencemender

I know of one product by Bonide called Rotstop that I have used before for this problem with good results.
Currently watching two canners full of tomatoes!
That will make 21 qts for today.
Just pulled all my shell bean plants. Most pods all dried out and ready to be shelled.
Anyone have any tips for canning potatoes?


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## 2feathers Creative Making

Fencemender said:


> I know of one product by Bonide called Rotstop that I have used before for this problem with good results.
> Currently watching two canners full of tomatoes!
> That will make 21 qts for today.
> Just pulled all my shell bean plants. Most pods all dried out and ready to be shelled.
> Anyone have any tips for canning potatoes?


Go ahead and chunk them up. If you are thinking stew potatoes, you might just make up the stew and can it then you don't need to add as much acid to make the usda happy...


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## trc65

If you are doing diced potatoes, dice them then put in a solution of 1tsp salt per quart of water to keep them from browning.

When they are all cut up, drain them then boil in fresh water for 2 minutes, drain and fill jars with 1/2" of headroom. Cover with boiling water to 1/2". Add 1/2 tsp salt to pints and 1tsp to quarts. Process at 10psi for 35 minutes (pints) or 40 minutes for quarts.

I caned some a few years ago. Round white potatoes are best for canning (low starch potatoes). Nothing difficult with potatoes other than the long processing times.

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## Fencemender

Sounds easy enough. How did you use them? Do they hold up in things like soups after they’ve been canned? I’m imagining they are great for mashed?
We had to harvest early due to combined drought and some blight on plants. Not ideal storage conditions in my basement this early.


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## trc65

A lot of times I'd just heat them up right out of the jars and add a little butter. They will hold up fairly well in soup, but you want to add them at the end of the cooking so they won't break down as much. Never tried them as mashed, but should work well for that.

If you've got a bunch of small potatoes (golf ball size) you could can them whole. For those boil them for 10 minutes before canning, and use the same processing times/psi for diced.

It's too late if you've already dig them, but I just leave mine in the ground until it's get cold enough to store them. You can loose some to insects and rodents, but most survive fine. I vinekilled mine a little over a week ago but probably won't dig them until mid,/late October.


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## Eric Rorabaugh

trc65 said:


> If you are doing diced potatoes, dice them then put in a solution of 1tsp salt per quart of water to keep them from browning.
> 
> When they are all cut up, drain them then boil in fresh water for 2 minutes, drain and fill jars with 1/2" of headroom. Cover with boiling water to 1/2". Add 1/2 tsp salt to pints and 1tsp to quarts. Process at 10psi for 35 minutes (pints) or 40 minutes for quarts.
> 
> I caned some a few years ago. Round white potatoes are best for canning (low starch potatoes). Nothing difficult with potatoes other than the long processing times.


Ditto. Just canned some first of the week.  is how I've always done it.
Chunk em up and can. Depends on the type of tater you use whether they will hold up in soups/stews. If its a softer potato, put in towards the end of cooking time. They do work for mashed

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## Fencemender

Thanks all!


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## Sprung

A report on the pepper plants: Before just pulling them, I tried the foliar spray that Kyle had mentioned. Dissolved a couple antacid tablets in a pint jar of water and then sprayed it on about a week ago. Plants are looking way better - not much brown spots or yellow leaves and new growth. Unfortunately it's probably too late in the season for a few of them to produce any peppers, but the spray definitely helped the pepper plants. Going to have to keep mental note of that.

Today we gave the tomato plants a cut back - cut off the tops (especially since they were getting too tall and were starting to fall over) and trimmed the sides a little. Can actually see some of the tomatoes growing now and, for what I've read, the plant should now focus more on maturing the fruit that is there instead of new growth.

Harvested more peppers today - getting a good harvest of them every few days.

Something has been eating the brussel sprout leaves. NOT happy. Still some surviving. Need to figure out what it could be.

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## trc65

Probably imported cabbage worm or cabbage looper. Doesn't really matter which caterpillar it is, any of the common garden insecticides will control them.

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## JerseyHighlander

Sprung said:


> A report on the pepper plants: Before just pulling them, I tried the foliar spray that Kyle had mentioned. Dissolved a couple antacid tablets in a pint jar of water and then sprayed it on about a week ago. Plants are looking way better - not much brown spots or yellow leaves and new growth. Unfortunately it's probably too late in the season for a few of them to produce any peppers, but the spray definitely helped the pepper plants. Going to have to keep mental note of that.
> 
> Today we gave the tomato plants a cut back - cut off the tops (especially since they were getting too tall and were starting to fall over) and trimmed the sides a little. Can actually see some of the tomatoes growing now and, for what I've read, the plant should now focus more on maturing the fruit that is there instead of new growth.
> 
> Harvested more peppers today - getting a good harvest of them every few days.
> 
> Something has been eating the brussel sprout leaves. NOT happy. Still some surviving. Need to figure out what it could be.


Good to hear, though the credit for the antacid part of that belongs to someone else, Herb I think. You can do a root drench with that too. Should continue the foliar feeding once a week but I would consider making the solution with eggshells as the peppers also have a higher need for phosphorus and I doubt that's going to be in the antacid tabs. 
Thing that told me it was a calcium problem from your pictures was the Dandelions growing under the pepper plants. Old medical herbalist taught me that Dandelions will only grow where the soil is deficient, having very deep roots, bring up minerals from below and deposit in the top soil when the leaves die. The Dandelions will go away on there own when the soil is restored.

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## JerseyHighlander

Haven't been ignoring the garden or the forums these past few weeks, just finding more peace with my head buried in the garden. I knew it was coming for months but the reality was harsh when the phone call came that a cousin in PA was in a death spiral. Buried him last weekend. Sixty Nine years is just too damned young. Have just mostly felt like keeping to myself since...

Burying my head in biology too. The foliar feeding with the eggshell/cow bone solution has greatly changed my garden for the better. Been listening to some lectures from a chap named Nigel Palmer on youtube where I learned about the eggshell solution. Still waiting to get his book on regenerative gardening but his website has some great info about the nutrient in different common materials that can be made into natural fertilizers without lining the pockets of corporate America.

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## JerseyHighlander

Almost forgot, the above mentioned book is on sale half price right now. Well worth full price IMHO, certainly worth half. Lots of other books in our orbit on sale, some up to 90% off. 









The Regenerative Grower’s Guide to Garden Amendments - Chelsea Green Publishing


Using Locally Sourced Materials to Make Mineral and Biological Extracts and Ferments




www.chelseagreen.com


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## Eric Rorabaugh

@JerseyHighlander 
Sorry to hear about your cousin Kyle. Good to have something to keep your mind occupied.


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## Mike Hill

Ok, all this talk about canning, preserving, freezing, "putting food by" has got Lil Mikey's juices flowing and he decided to do some canning. Found an article about an easy way of canning soup. Worked goodly!

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## Mike Hill

My daughter heard that I have not been able to harvest a ripe fig from my trees. She felt sorry for the old man and bought him some figs.

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## sprucegum

Couple of things I'm trying. I planted some sugar snap peas august 1st to try for a fall crop, looks like they have chance with blossoms popping out. I also planted buckwheat where early peas and string beans grew for green manure and weed control.

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## djg

Why don't my beans which I planted in August look like yours (lol)?

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## sprucegum



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## Sprung

A little late to get my order in - a lot of different varieties to choose from are listed as sold out now - but I finally placed a seed garlic order. Ordered from Filaree Farm, which Tim had mentioned previously. Ordered a 1/2lb each of Chesnok Red and Killarney Red (which I read is supposed to be like a Spanish Roja).

This past week we *finally* harvested our first tomatoes. After topping them, they've finally decided to start ripening the fruit.

Still pulling in shishito, poblano, jalapeno, and cubanelle peppers. Waiting for bell peppers to ripen beyond green into their various colors - starting to now. Jalapenos have been slow to start, but now have an abundance that will hopefully mature well over the next couple weeks. Also waiting for kalugeritsas to mature/turn red - I have two plants of this and they're some of the few pepper plants I started from seed that survived a very warm couple weeks right after transplanting. Habanadas will hopefully also mature/turn color soon as well.

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## sprucegum

I've been looking all over the internet for bare root strawberry plants to plant this fall. All of the big nursery's want to sell plugs for around $5 each, I finally checked eBay. I found a seller offering bare root plants for about $30/25 shipping included. They claim to be a small family nursery in Pennsylvania, the reviews were mixed. I figured for $30 I'd chance it and ordered some, the only variety hardy in our zone was Albion ever baring. These arrived looking pretty dead, normal for bare root. They have been in exactly 7 days and I couldn't be happier. They are planted a little too close together because the bundle had extra. Hopefully they will get well established before a killing frost, when I will mulch them heavily with straw for the winter.

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## djg

I've got my late planting of beans on a cattle panel trellis that tops out at 5' high. They're starting to bloom. I've got a 3' high fence of chicken wire around them to protect them from the rabbits. But now, something is eating on them above the chicken wire fence. The ground is dry and I don't see any tracks so I don't know if it's deer or not. Grasshoppers?


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## sprucegum

Deer do love beans. An electric fence wire a few inches above the chicken wire should be very effective

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## trc65

If it is/was grasshoppers, you should be able to see lots of them on the plants.

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## djg

Never had problems before. But there are a lot of newborns and their moms around.


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## sprucegum

Not a whole lot growing, few tomatoes left to ripen and hopefully some late sugar snap peas. Been digging potatoes as we need them since July, looks like way more than we need. My daughter in law takes her maple products to the farmers market on Fridays so I sent along a few red Norland potatoes. Hopefully she doesn't bring them all home.

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## trc65

Good looking color on those Norlands!

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## djg

You can grow potatoes!

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## sprucegum

trc65 said:


> Good looking color on those Norlands!


They are a pretty tater

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## trc65

Started picking apples this afternoon. Picked 3/4 bushel in about 5 minutes. These are Winesap. Going to freeze a bunch, dry some and lots of applesauce.

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## sprucegum

Nice, I miss my apple trees that we had at the old house. Lots of wild ones here, one of them makes good pies and a mix of them all makes some interesting cider.

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## trc65

Right now, I only have the Winesap and a Honeycrisp. Need to get another pollinator for the Honeycrisp as it's a little too far away from the ornamental crabs for good pollination. Winesap is a triploid variety which has sterile pollen and won't pollinate other trees. 

The Honeycrisp only produced about a dozen apples this year, so no other apples to mix with the Winesap for cider. Another reason to get another tree or two...

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## sprucegum

trc65 said:


> Right now, I only have the Winesap and a Honeycrisp. Need to get another pollinator for the Honeycrisp as it's a little too far away from the ornamental crabs for good pollination. Winesap is a triploid variety which has sterile pollen and won't pollinate other trees.
> 
> The Honeycrisp only produced about a dozen apples this year, so no other apples to mix with the Winesap for cider. Another reason to get another tree or two...


All of ours were old varieties, my hands down favorite was winter banana. They are very late and don't turn bright red until we get a light frost or 2. Large, red, and firm with a sweet banana like flavor. Good eating and great for pies.

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## Sprung

I'd love to plant some fruit trees, but we've never had to take care of fruit trees before. What's involved in growing and taking care of them? Some previous research led to people saying just do nothing all the way up to the amount of work they put into a few trees is about near a full time job. Not really having a good idea of the work involved has kept us from planting some. Apple, cherry, and pear are ones that would interest us if we ever plant fruit trees.

How are the Winesap apples? Never had them and am curious about the taste.

Our favorite variety, which we discovered at a local apple orchard, is Zestar. They have a nice balance of sweet and tart, without being too much of either. They are not mealy. And we've liked them for both fresh eating and baking. They're an early apple, so one of the first ones ripe. This weekend I'll be making a batch of apple pie filling using them - as I have the last couple years after discovering them.

In MN there were a few apple trees in the church yard, behind the parsonage, that one of the members took care of (along with his own personal orchard of a couple dozen different types of trees). One of the trees back there was an old Haralson - old enough that the old timers at church remembered eating apples off it as children. That tree produced some great tasting apples. Was a sad day when we cut it down, but it was mostly dead and was only getting worse.

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## Sprung

Still harvesting peppers - and hope to be doing so for a bit yet. Have a couple varieties that I haven't picked any of yet as they're not ripe yet - still waiting for them to start turning colors. But last night I used shishitos, along with some poblanos, cubanelles, and jalapenos, and made poppers - peppers stuffed with a cream cheese/sour cream/shredded cheddar mix, then wrapped with bacon. Freeze them, then put in Foodsaver bags and back into the freezer. Will be great to pull a package or two out and smoke or grill them whenever we want some. Last night's batch was the second batch I've done thus far.

Tonight I'm canning pickles and dilly beans. This weekend I'm also working on drying herbs in the dehydrator.

With tomatoes finally coming in, I'll be making sauce soon.

Running out of freezer space - and that's with two freezers. There are worse problems to have!

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## sprucegum

Sprung said:


> Still harvesting peppers - and hope to be doing so for a bit yet. Have a couple varieties that I haven't picked any of yet as they're not ripe yet - still waiting for them to start turning colors. But last night I used shishitos, along with some poblanos, cubanelles, and jalapenos, and made poppers - peppers stuffed with a cream cheese/sour cream/shredded cheddar mix, then wrapped with bacon. Freeze them, then put in Foodsaver bags and back into the freezer. Will be great to pull a package or two out and smoke or grill them whenever we want some. Last night's batch was the second batch I've done thus far.
> 
> Tonight I'm canning pickles and dilly beans. This weekend I'm also working on drying herbs in the dehydrator.
> 
> With tomatoes finally coming in, I'll be making sauce soon.
> 
> Running out of freezer space - and that's with two freezers. There are worse problems to have!


With just the 2 of us we have to be careful not to overdo the preserving. Hard as it is to waste a little we have learned it makes just as good compost before it's been canned, pickled, or frozen . Wife has a couple dozen empty jars left for some carrots and beet pickles then we are done. Haven't forgotten those dried beans, we need a good frost to kill the plants, then I will pull them and put them in the attic to dry.

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## Mr. Peet

sprucegum said:


> All of ours were old varieties, my hands down favorite was winter banana. They are very late and don't turn bright red until we get a light frost or 2. Large, red, and firm with a sweet banana like flavor. Good eating and great for pies.


No frost yet?


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## sprucegum

Mr. Peet said:


> No frost yet?


Nope


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## trc65

Winesap is a tart/sweet heirloom variety that dates to the early 1800's. Good flavor, we've used them for pies, butters, dehydrated, applesauce, and cakes. Here is a quote from one site describing the flavor: "Winesap apples have a sweet, fruity, and spice-like aroma and a balanced, sweet-tart flavor with tangy, sweet, and subtly savory wine-like nuances."

They've got a fairly thick, tough skin but I don't peel them before eating fresh. Crisp, non mealy texture, they are sid to be a decent storage apple although I don't try other than keeping some in the fridge. Historically, they were used a lot as the base apple for ciders. They are one of the latest maturing apples and it can be well into October for maturity some years. 

Don't know if they would survive in your area Matt, they are a zone 5-8 apple.

Growing apples is not difficult, but can require a lot of insecticide sprays if you want really nice looking ones. They should be pruned every year in late winter, but pruning my two semi dwarf trees takes about 1 hour annually. Pears are about the same as apples in regards to care, annual pruning and insecticide sprays periodically. 

Cherry trees (sour) need annual pruning, but a lot less sprays.

Bottom line on fruit trees is all of them will need annual pruning, but that is no big deal. From there, it's up to you how much you want to spray or monitor for insect pests. Some won't spray at all. Some will spray every week or ten days, which I think is way overkill unless you have an orchard that is selling to the public.

Unless you have a lot of space, I'd recommend dwarf rootstock on fruit trees. Even a semi dwarf tree can overwhelm small areas. I buy mostly bare root trees in the spring which will generally be 3-5' tall. 

Time from planting to fruit production varies and is generally quicker for dwarf than semi dwarf. Apples 4-5 years, pears 5-7 years, cherry and plum 3-5 years. The time will also vary somewhat depending on variety.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

trc65 said:


> Winesap is a tart/sweet heirloom variety that dates to the early 1800's. Good flavor, we've used them for pies, butters, dehydrated, applesauce, and cakes. Here is a quote from one site describing the flavor: "Winesap apples have a sweet, fruity, and spice-like aroma and a balanced, sweet-tart flavor with tangy, sweet, and subtly savory wine-like nuances."
> 
> They've got a fairly thick, tough skin but I don't peel them before eating fresh. Crisp, non mealy texture, they are sid to be a decent storage apple although I don't try other than keeping some in the fridge. Historically, they were used a lot as the base apple for ciders. They are one of the latest maturing apples and it can be well into October for maturity some years.
> 
> Don't know if they would survive in your area Matt, they are a zone 5-8 apple.
> 
> Growing apples is not difficult, but can require a lot of insecticide sprays if you want really nice looking ones. They should be pruned every year in late winter, but pruning my two semi dwarf trees takes about 1 hour annually. Pears are about the same as apples in regards to care, annual pruning and insecticide sprays periodically.
> 
> Cherry trees (sour) need annual pruning, but a lot less sprays.
> 
> Bottom line on fruit trees is all of them will need annual pruning, but that is no big deal. From there, it's up to you how much you want to spray or monitor for insect pests. Some won't spray at all. Some will spray every week or ten days, which I think is way overkill unless you have an orchard that is selling to the public.
> 
> Unless you have a lot of space, I'd recommend dwarf rootstock on fruit trees. Even a semi dwarf tree can overwhelm small areas. I buy mostly bare root trees in the spring which will generally be 3-5' tall.
> 
> Time from planting to fruit production varies and is generally quicker for dwarf than semi dwarf. Apples 4-5 years, pears 5-7 years, cherry and plum 3-5 years. The time will also vary somewhat depending on variety.


A small sidebar on apples. Clear cedars from your orchard area they overwinter the fungus that creates apple rust.

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## Sprung

sprucegum said:


> With just the 2 of us we have to be careful not to overdo the preserving.



I hear you on that - though we've got two young boys who are getting to that stage where it seems like they eat their body weight in food each week. An exaggeration, for sure, but some days they do eat real well. One of those freezers is just meat - especially since we buy beef by the quarter and pork by the half. Even still, we've got some stuff that I canned too much of in previous years, so didn't do more, or as much if we wouldn't need as much. And some things they go through quick - I am hoping to get my hands on enough Concord grapes this year for a double batch of jelly, because last year's batch is already gone... Grape is their favorite jelly.



trc65 said:


> Winesap is a tart/sweet heirloom variety that dates to the early 1800's. Good flavor, we've used them for pies, butters, dehydrated, applesauce, and cakes. Here is a quote from one site describing the flavor: "Winesap apples have a sweet, fruity, and spice-like aroma and a balanced, sweet-tart flavor with tangy, sweet, and subtly savory wine-like nuances."
> 
> They've got a fairly thick, tough skin but I don't peel them before eating fresh. Crisp, non mealy texture, they are sid to be a decent storage apple although I don't try other than keeping some in the fridge. Historically, they were used a lot as the base apple for ciders. They are one of the latest maturing apples and it can be well into October for maturity some years.
> 
> Don't know if they would survive in your area Matt, they are a zone 5-8 apple.
> 
> Growing apples is not difficult, but can require a lot of insecticide sprays if you want really nice looking ones. They should be pruned every year in late winter, but pruning my two semi dwarf trees takes about 1 hour annually. Pears are about the same as apples in regards to care, annual pruning and insecticide sprays periodically.
> 
> Cherry trees (sour) need annual pruning, but a lot less sprays.
> 
> Bottom line on fruit trees is all of them will need annual pruning, but that is no big deal. From there, it's up to you how much you want to spray or monitor for insect pests. Some won't spray at all. Some will spray every week or ten days, which I think is way overkill unless you have an orchard that is selling to the public.
> 
> Unless you have a lot of space, I'd recommend dwarf rootstock on fruit trees. Even a semi dwarf tree can overwhelm small areas. I buy mostly bare root trees in the spring which will generally be 3-5' tall.
> 
> Time from planting to fruit production varies and is generally quicker for dwarf than semi dwarf. Apples 4-5 years, pears 5-7 years, cherry and plum 3-5 years. The time will also vary somewhat depending on variety.



Very good information, Tim - thank you! With our proximity to Lake Michigan, we're in zone 5b. That Winesap sounds like a delicious apple.

Hmm, maybe I'll discuss with my wife over the winter and go from there... The space we have, it would have to be dwarf trees. And, being realistic, we wouldn't be able to get everything we might want - so we'd have to be choosy about what would make the most sense for us. I wanted to do a couple Concord grape vines this year, but that got shot down...

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## Nature Man

sprucegum said:


> Not a whole lot growing, few tomatoes left to ripen and hopefully some late sugar snap peas. Been digging potatoes as we need them since July, looks like way more than we need. My daughter in law takes her maple products to the farmers market on Fridays so I sent along a few red Norland potatoes. Hopefully she doesn't bring them all home.View attachment 231391View attachment 231392


That’s a lot of potatoes! Definitely have to share! Chuck


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## trc65

Winesap is a good multi-use apple, but my all time favorite for fresh eating is Honeycrisp. I've got to do some reading and sampling to figure out what my next variety will be.

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## sprucegum

Nature Man said:


> That’s a lot of potatoes! Definitely have to share! Chuck


My daughter in law had good luck with that batch of Norlands at the farmers market, she sold out. I've got 2 more short rows of the same variety, I will let her sell another row and keep one for storage. I have 3 other varieties that I don't think produced as well, when I get them dug I can decide what to do with them. I give some to my two sons and daughter, but they are busy young families that eat on the run quite a bit so staples like potatoes sometimes take a back seat. I have a pretty good storage place for them and last year they lasted into April, we purchased one 10 pound bag which got us through June. I started digging baby reds on the 10th of July. Some old timers used to can a few potatoes for that time before the new crop was ready, wife said she would rather pay $10 a year for some store bought.

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## trc65

You can tell fall is here by the colors I'm seeing.

New England asters. Same species, just natural variation in color.










My big pumpkins aren't as big as last year, but I've got more than one this year.

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## Mike Hill

Sprung said:


> I'd love to plant some fruit trees, but we've never had to take care of fruit trees before. What's involved in growing and taking care of them? Some previous research led to people saying just do nothing all the way up to the amount of work they put into a few trees is about near a full time job. Not really having a good idea of the work involved has kept us from planting some. Apple, cherry, and pear are ones that would interest us if we ever plant fruit trees.
> 
> How are the Winesap apples? Never had them and am curious about the taste.
> 
> Our favorite variety, which we discovered at a local apple orchard, is Zestar. They have a nice balance of sweet and tart, without being too much of either. They are not mealy. And we've liked them for both fresh eating and baking. They're an early apple, so one of the first ones ripe. This weekend I'll be making a batch of apple pie filling using them - as I have the last couple years after discovering them.
> 
> In MN there were a few apple trees in the church yard, behind the parsonage, that one of the members took care of (along with his own personal orchard of a couple dozen different types of trees). One of the trees back there was an old Haralson - old enough that the old timers at church remembered eating apples off it as children. That tree produced some great tasting apples. Was a sad day when we cut it down, but it was mostly dead and was only getting worse.


One of the things to think about when growing apples (and other fruits) is the size of the tree. You can of course, grow a standard , but there are a number of different ways of growing apples that can reduce the size of the tree. Some are intensive and can increase the yield per acre, some can just make it easier to harvest. There are also, a number of rootstocks that when the apple variety (or varieties) are grafted onto them that yield out different sized trees at maturity. For grins, 40 years ago I grafted 3 spur type apples to some very dwarfing Melling rootstock. 40 years later one is still alive and even if I don't prune it, it will not get over say 7' or 8' tall. I keep it at 5-6' tall. An excellent source of information is a group called NAFEX (North American Fruit Explorers). They have a publication that is called Pomona. They deal in information of all sorts of fruits as well as exchanges of scion wood. They may still have interest groups that concentrate on different fruits that were a great source of information. I do not know how active or how easy it is to find information now as the pandemic hit them hard. There are also varieties that are less susceptible to the different diseases and pest of apples. Most apples have minimum chill requirements, there are some that have lesser requirements and can be grown in warmer areas. Of the estimates of 7,500 to 75,000 varieties of apples grown world-wide there are certainly some unusual ones that can be found, and you can rest assured there is some that fit your wants and needs.

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## sprucegum

I harvested my heirloom dry beans yesterday. Usually I wait for a hard frost and some sunny weather to harvest and dry the whole plant. After drying they can be threshed by putting them in a large feed sack and beating the crap out of them. This year the frost is holding off and we have been getting a lot of rain. My crop was going down hill so I pulled the plants and stripped off the pods. We spread them on the attic floor to dry, any afternoon sun on the west facing roof warms things up pretty fast.

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## William Tanner

A few of the big max pumpkins are coming along.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Stopped in to see my folks and daddy had a few tomatoes coming along...

I threatened to make a sandwich

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## trc65

Apples today. Cooking up some applesauce.





Waste not want not, using peels and cores for some apple scrap jelly.

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## trc65

Here are a couple of pics showing the final product.

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## Wildthings

10:00 am tomorrow morning.. Canning class..looking forward to it

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## Mike Hill

Wildthings said:


> 10:00 am tomorrow morning.. Canning class..looking forward to it


Geezzz. I'm glad I looked at it again - I thought I saw caning class!

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## Sprung

Last weekend I canned salsa verde and spaghetti sauce. Today I'm canning tomato corn salsa and apple pie filling.

Got some ferments going too. Can't remember if I mentioned it, but got some sauerkraut going - not much, just two half gallon mason jars full, but we don't eat tons of kraut. Also started a batch of hot sauce fermenting last night - got a variety of peppers (jalapeno, shishito, and poblano), some tomatillos, onions, and garlic in the brine. My kalugitsera and habanada peppers are just starting to come in, so I've started chopping those up and freezing them for batches of hot sauce once the peppers are all done. Also started some honey garlic. I plan to use some of the fermented garlic from the honey garlic in some of the hot sauces. I also cut up a white oak cutoff into smaller pieces and charred them, got them soaking in Jim Beam now - want to eventually use that for simulating a barrel aging on some of the hot sauces.

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## Mike Hill

Let us know how that charred oak worked. Did some fermented tabasco two years ago - and I was looking for a very small barrel to char and age it in, but could not find one I wanted to afford! So ate it sans charred oak aging. Waiting for cabbages to come in big at the farmers market and will be making some sauerkraut also. Love homemade sauerkraut!

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## trc65

Haven't started my sauerkraut yet, waiting for my late cabbages to get a little bigger. You are right though, nothing beats homemade kraut. 

I've never played with fermenting hot sauce, but what you have going sounds interesting, may have to get something started. I've got bushes full of jalapeno, habanero, cayenne and lemon drops.

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## Sprung

I made hot sauce once, probably about a decade ago. That time all I did was cook the peppers with vinegar and then puree in the blender, put in a bottle and stick in the fridge. Turned out not too bad. But, yeah, having more peppers than we'll use had me thinking of what to do with them. If these turn out - which will take a while between fermentation and aging - I'm planning to plant a better variety of hot peppers next year just for making hot sauce.

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## trc65

My "default" hot sauce is a 50:50 mix of habanero and cayenne with garlic and onion powder, a few cloves and vinegar/water. I can it in a HWB so only make it every other year or so. Make the same recipe only using lemon drop peppers (hot with a subtle lemon flavor). 

The mind is churning now, have a bunch of chipotle powder that would be good to add some smoked flavor to sauce. Maybe try my default recipe only with fermented peppers. Then maybe my default recipe with chipotle, and maybe divide the fermented to use chipotle on half... So many variables....

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## Sprung

trc65 said:


> So many variables....



That's the fun part! So many different things to try and directions to take it, based upon what you'd like the resulting flavor profile and heat level to be.

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## Mike Hill

Let the jalapenos get red ripe and ferment them. Depth of flavor is awesome! Only other peppers I've fermented is chili pequins - lots of seeds but good.

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## vegas urban lumber

deleted


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## trc65

Puffball season. Wasn't expecting any this year as it has been a very dry September, but went down to my "patch" and found about a dozen. Picked a small one for supper.

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## William Tanner

Had to look this one up. Pretty cool.

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## trc65

I like to slice them about 1/2" thick, brush them with crushed garlic and olive oil and then take individual rosemary leaves and press onto the shrooms, then pan fry. Can also do similar seasoning and grill them.

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## Nature Man

trc65 said:


> Puffball season. Wasn't expecting any this year as it has been a very dry September, but went down to my "patch" and found about a dozen. Picked a small one for supper.
> 
> View attachment 232011
> 
> View attachment 232012
> 
> View attachment 232013
> 
> View attachment 232014


That's a SMALL one!?!

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## trc65

Nature Man said:


> That's a SMALL one!?!


Yeah, normally they all get a lot bigger. The ones in the second and third picture are about soccer ball size, but seemed to be a little past prime, so I left them to sporulate. In most years, they would be about basketball sized.

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## FLQuacker

trc65 said:


> Yeah, normally they all get a lot bigger. The ones in the second and third picture are about soccer ball size, but seemed to be a little past prime, so I left them to sporulate. In most years, they would be about basketball sized.


Cool...don't get but chanterelles here around the house and an occasional lions mane on a downed hardwood.

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## Mr. Peet

trc65 said:


> Yeah, normally they all get a lot bigger. The ones in the second and third picture are about soccer ball size, but seemed to be a little past prime, so I left them to sporulate. In most years, they would be about basketball sized.


Biggest I've seen in our area is about the the size of the one in your hand, maybe smaller. 6-8" inches

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## Greenacres2

I never knew puffballs were edible. Mowed over a few little ones yesterday—baseball size.


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## trc65

Here is a short article on puffball mushrooms and what to look for to make sure they are safe to eat. https://eattheplanet.org/puffball-mushroom-youll-be-ok-if-you-follow-one-id-feature/

The ones I see are giant puffballs, there are others that are edible, but smaller.

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## trc65

Hard freeze last night (27°) so my growing season is mostly over. Still have Brussels sprouts, Chinese cabbage, regular cabbage and winter squash to harvest.

With vines and weeds now dead, time to start cutting pumpkins from vines and bringing them to the house for decorating. Not as large as previous years, but I was late getting them into the ground.

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## William Tanner

trc65 said:


> Hard freeze last night (27°) so my growing season is mostly over. Still have Brussels sprouts, Chinese cabbage, regular cabbage and winter squash to harvest.
> 
> With vines and weeds now dead, time to start cutting pumpkins from vines and bringing them to the house for decorating. Not as large as previous years, but I was late getting them into the ground.
> 
> View attachment 232202


Makes my three pumpkins look pretty sad.


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## trc65

I may have numbers, but nothing as big as your Big Max pumpkins...


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## trc65

Here are a couple of the "big" pumpkins. No where near the size of the one last year, but got four of them to grow this year.

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## Nature Man

trc65 said:


> Here are a couple of the "big" pumpkins. No where near the size of the one last year, but got four of them to grow this year.
> 
> View attachment 232203
> 
> View attachment 232204


Is that about 18" across?


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## 2feathers Creative Making

My spot is too shady. I got 3 winter squash that I have already sent to the parents house. My cucumbers are just now blooming. Hard freeze tonight. Don't think they will make cukes... I am wrapping up a mini greenhouse. 
Hoping to lengthen my bean harvest by a week or so. My pollinators will drop out so I won't get more. Just finish off what's set. After that I plan to start potatoes and onions and let them get a head start on next year's growing season.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

simple scrap lumber ends

with 4 cattle panels bowed up for the support frame.

these screws aren't cheap but they sure make life simpler.

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## trc65

Nature Man said:


> Is that about 18" across?


Both are pretty close to that, the one in first picture is slightly larger.

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## trc65

Nice little greenhouse Frank! That should give you a lot more than a week unless you start slipping into the low 20's at night. Watch the temps on warm sunny days, I'd imagine that could go up to 100°+ on a sunny 70° day.


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## 2feathers Creative Making

trc65 said:


> Nice little greenhouse Frank! That should give you a lot more than a week unless you start slipping into the low 20's at night. Watch the temps on warm sunny days, I'd imagine that could go up to 100°+ on a sunny 70° day.


Thanks. Yeah, I plan to get some automatic vents for crawlspace. They open at 70 degrees. And put 2 or 3 on each end.

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## Sprung

Frank, that's awesome. I'd love to build a greenhouse. But, not going to happen where we live - at least not until the day comes that we are living in a house of our own instead of a parsonage.


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## 2feathers Creative Making

Sprung said:


> Frank, that's awesome. I'd love to build a greenhouse. But, not going to happen where we live - at least not until the day comes that we are living in a house of our own instead of a parsonage.


You can , if you use a high quality plastic, put a greenhouse together using a harbor freight storage tent/shed. Especially if you keep the door end that comes with it. That would go up in about 4 hours and down in two in the spring. Storage for those is about 1ft x 1 ft x 4ft.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

2feathers Creative Making said:


> View attachment 232221simple scrap lumber endsView attachment 232222with 4 cattle panels bowed up for the support frame.View attachment 232223these screws aren't cheap but they sure make life simpler.




Now, you've gone and done it. You have planted a seed in my mind that has already started to grow.....

Alan

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> Now, you've gone and done it. You have planted a seed in my mind that has already started to grow.....
> 
> Alan


 you're welcome.


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## trc65

@Sprung mentioned fermenting garlic in honey and that got me looking at recipes to see how people used them. I'm not going to do any garlic, but found a recipe for fermenting cranberries in honey and that's what I got working this afternoon. Cranberries, ginger, orange juice and a cinnamon stick- then pour honey over the top and let it work. Here's the recipe: https://www.growforagecookferment.com/fermented-honey-cranberries/





I've got high hopes for this one!

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## Nature Man

trc65 said:


> @Sprung mentioned fermenting garlic in honey and that got me looking at recipes to see how people used them. I'm not going to do any garlic, but found a recipe for fermenting cranberries in honey and that's what I got working this afternoon. Cranberries, ginger, orange juice and a cinnamon stick- then pour honey over the top and let it work. Here's the recipe: https://www.growforagecookferment.com/fermented-honey-cranberries/
> 
> View attachment 232249
> 
> I've got high hopes for this one!


That really looks scrumptious! Let us know how it turns out when you eventually open it. Chuck

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

trc65 said:


> @Sprung mentioned fermenting garlic in honey and that got me looking at recipes to see how people used them. I'm not going to do any garlic, but found a recipe for fermenting cranberries in honey and that's what I got working this afternoon. Cranberries, ginger, orange juice and a cinnamon stick- then pour honey over the top and let it work. Here's the recipe: https://www.growforagecookferment.com/fermented-honey-cranberries/
> 
> View attachment 232249
> 
> I've got high hopes for this one!



I'm not real sure how this could go wrong...

Alan

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## trc65

Nature Man said:


> That really looks scrumptious! Let us know how it turns out when you eventually open it. Chuck





Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> I'm not real sure how this could go wrong...
> 
> Alan


It was almost a shame to "contaminate" the honey with the berries. The guy with the hives has a combination of apples, pears and black locust trees along with several large raspberry patches to feed the bees. Probably the best tasting honey I've ever had.

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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

Well, I love good honey and I love cranberries... soooooooo, It looks like the best of both worlds to me...

Down here we have a brush specie called guajillo. There's a pretty good flow in Spring. If you put the supers on when it starts and pull them when it's done (or before something else starts), it makes the best honey I've ever tasted. It's a very light colored and flavored honey. But unless a guy runs his own hives, it's hard to come by. The last I had was from the last super I pulled and that was in 1989...

Alan

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## Sprung

Tim, that looks like it'll be a delicious ferment. Let us know what you think of it later on!

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## Nature Man

Alan R McDaniel Jr said:


> Well, I love good honey and I love cranberries... soooooooo, It looks like the best of both worlds to me...
> 
> Down here we have a brush specie called guajillo. There's a pretty good flow in Spring. If you put the supers on when it starts and pull them when it's done (or before something else starts), it makes the best honey I've ever tasted. It's a very light colored and flavored honey. But unless a guy runs his own hives, it's hard to come by. The last I had was from the last super I pulled and that was in 1989...
> 
> Alan


I’ve had Guajillo honey, and it is fantastic! Would really like to try the honey that Tim spoke about. Chuck

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## Mike Hill

trc65 said:


> It was almost a shame to "contaminate" the honey with the berries. The guy with the hives has a combination of apples, pears and black locust trees along with several large raspberry patches to feed the bees. Probably the best tasting honey I've ever had.


The apple and raspberry honey is relatively rare (neither makes a bunch of nectar) - but are both really sweet. Pear honey is extremely rare as they make almost no nectar. However, in a hard year, the bees will collect pear juice from overripe pears - and that can be super tasty. Now locust, in a good flowering year can make a delicious, mild, clear and pale honey. You can see the color difference on a frame from when they collect locust nectar and they stop and collect others. 

I'd say the combo of apple, raspberry, and locust makes a great honey!

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## trc65

A few different types of pumpkin/squash with a few gourds.

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## trc65

Nearing the end. Still have a bushel or more of apples on the tree, but can't find anyone else to take more. Picked some Brussels sprouts and an acorn squash for supper.

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## Nature Man

trc65 said:


> Nearing the end. Still have a bushel or more of apples on the tree, but can't find anyone else to take more. Picked some Brussels sprouts and an acorn squash for supper.
> 
> View attachment 232516


Will you plant a Winter garden? Chuck


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## trc65

Nature Man said:


> Will you plant a Winter garden? Chuck


Other than planting garlic in a couple weeks, no. I've got some Chinese cabbage I'm going to try to keep alive for a few more weeks by covering at night, but in a typical year our ground will freeze by the end of December, so without a heated greenhouse nothing will grow.

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## trc65

19° last night, it's all definitely over now!

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## Wildthings

44° here last night, Yikes. Back to the mid 80°s this weekend!

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## Nubsnstubs

60 something about 5 am today and 84 at 12.35 pm. ............ Jerry (in Tucson)

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## Mr. Peet

Wildthings said:


> 44° here last night, Yikes. Back to the mid 80°s this weekend!


43 was our high today. Little white tuffs in the air that seem to disappear as they fall. I'm not ready yet. We've had 3 weeks of frost in the valley and only a few here on the hill. 28 this morning, so we are for sure done too.

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## trc65

Mid 40's today, but are supposed to hit 80° on Saturday before seasonal weather returns next week (highs in upper 50's to low 60's).


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## Alan R McDaniel Jr

I planted greens, turnips, spinach, lettuce, and cabbage today...

Alan

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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> Nearing the end. Still have a bushel or more of apples on the tree, but can't find anyone else to take more. Picked some Brussels sprouts and an acorn squash for supper.
> 
> View attachment 232516


When life gives you lemons, make lemonade. When you have too many apples... make apple cider vinegar. I look forward to having such problems. Someday.

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## Eric Rorabaugh

28° this morning, high of 39° today. Supposed to warm up this weekend.

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## trc65

JerseyHighlander said:


> When life gives you lemons, make lemonade. When you have too many apples... make apple cider vinegar. I look forward to having such problems. Someday.


I was going to make cider, but don't have a press, and just ran out of time (and freezer space) to do anything more with them. May have to buy a press though for the future, just ordered another apple tree to help with pollination of the Honey Crisp. Ordered an Orange Pippen to go with the Honey Crisp and Winesap.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

trc65 said:


> I was going to make cider, but don't have a press, and just ran out of time (and freezer space) to do anything more with them. May have to buy a press though for the future, just ordered another apple tree to help with pollination of the Honey Crisp. Ordered an Orange Pippen to go with the Honey Crisp and Winesap.


We bought my dad a couple of the stainless jack lalane juicers at the goodwill and they have seen him through several seasons of cider and cider vinegar.

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## Sprung

We haven't had a freeze here yet - have gotten real close a few nights. There was frost one morning a week or so ago, but it was sporadic and our backyard/garden was spared. But, either way, everything's done in the garden, except some bok choy and leeks - and those I'll probably pull and take care of this weekend when we clean out the beds.

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## Wildthings

This has been a great thread!!

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## trc65

Been going strong through two growing seasons, but will probably get a little slow in the coming months unless some of you southerners grow some winter crops...


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## 2feathers Creative Making

trc65 said:


> Been going strong through two growing seasons, but will probably get a little slow in the coming months unless some of you southerners grow some winter crops...


Am giving it a try. I have one last gleaning on my bush beans in the green house. Then I feed the plants to the goats and geese and follow them with potatoes and onions. Even if they don't finish, they should be ready for a fast start next spring. I plan to only start leaf and root crops since the greenhouse will block any pollinators that may survive the cold.

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## Mike Hill

I just want these girls to finish unfurling and show off their goodies. It has been a long wait!!!!!

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## Wildthings

2feathers Creative Making said:


> Am giving it a try. I have one last gleaning on my bush beans in the green house. *Then I feed the plants to the goats and geese and follow them with potatoes and onions*. Even if they don't finish, they should be ready for a fast start next spring. I plan to only start leaf and root crops since the greenhouse will block any pollinators that may survive the cold.


So, the goats get a main course of plants followed by a 2nd course of potatoes and onions. What are they having for dessert?

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Wildthings said:


> So, the goats get a main course of plants followed by a 2nd course of potatoes and onions. What are they having for dessert?


Well, I am hoping the nanny has a kid this winter so you have to feed them up right, you know.

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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> Been going strong through two growing seasons, but will probably get a little slow in the coming months unless some of you southerners grow some winter crops...


I've had so much more success growing inside under the grow lights, I'm intending to keep going right through the winter. Just put 8 more lettuce, 4 spinach, 4 heirloom mustard greens and some German winter Thyme seeds into the mini soilblocks yesterday. Planning to have fresh greens all winter long. 
Moved several pepper plants that have been in pots, inside out of the cold and they are doing better there than they were outside. 
Bunch of medicinal plants doing great down there as well.

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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> I was going to make cider, but don't have a press, and just ran out of time (and freezer space) to do anything more with them. May have to buy a press though for the future, just ordered another apple tree to help with pollination of the Honey Crisp. Ordered an Orange Pippen to go with the Honey Crisp and Winesap.


There are some old fashioned methods of making the ACV without first pressing cider. Essentially just chopping up the apples, even using the peels & cores fom apples that went to pie and such, fermenting them in water first then continuing on to vinegar. I've been itching to give it a try myself but time... space... always sumthin. 

2feathers idea with the blender sounds like an improvement on just chopping it up.

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## trc65

JerseyHighlander said:


> I've had so much more success growing inside under the grow lights, I'm intending to keep going right through the winter. Just put 8 more lettuce, 4 spinach, 4 heirloom mustard greens and some German winter Thyme seeds into the mini soilblocks yesterday. Planning to have fresh greens all winter long.
> Moved several pepper plants that have been in pots, inside out of the cold and they are doing better there than they were outside.
> Bunch of medicinal plants doing great down there as well.


Good deal, be sure to update us with your progress. Your mentioning thyme reminds me I've got to get thyme and rosemary pulled tomorrow and on the drying racks.

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## Sprung

My seed garlic order from Filaree Farm was delivered the other day, so this morning I planted garlic. Ordered 1/2lb each of Killarney Red and Chesnok Red. In addition to planting those, we had received a bulb of each Bagatyr and Pehoski Purple from a local seed library at their annual fall seed giveaway. Each year they give away older seeds as well as some seed garlic and walking onion sets. Also planted some of the garlic we harvested this year, but do not know what the variety is - we had received some from a friend to plant last year (which is the garlic that we didn't get to plant until spring this year) and they didn't know the variety either. Planted 136 individual cloves within a 4' x 5' area of one of our raised beds. I figure there should be time left to plant something in there for a fall harvest, especially if we get seeds started indoors and then transplant once the garlic has been harvested.

With the planting of the garlic, this marks the end of our garden work for the year. The only thing that I might do yet before the ground freezes is to drive in some posts to put up another cattle panel for an arched trellis.

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## trc65

I've still got work to do. Haven't planted garlic yet, still need to dig potatoes and harvest Brussel sprouts.

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## Sprung

We haven't grown potatoes, but are thinking about doing so next year. We tried Brussel sprouts, but between planting them a little too late and the animals eating at the plants, we ended up pulling them out as they weren't going to end up producing anything.


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## JerseyHighlander

Sprung said:


> My seed garlic order from Filaree Farm was delivered the other day, so this morning I planted garlic. Ordered 1/2lb each of Killarney Red and Chesnok Red. In addition to planting those, we had received a bulb of each Bagatyr and Pehoski Purple from a local seed library at their annual fall seed giveaway. Each year they give away older seeds as well as some seed garlic and walking onion sets. Also planted some of the garlic we harvested this year, but do not know what the variety is - we had received some from a friend to plant last year (which is the garlic that we didn't get to plant until spring this year) and they didn't know the variety either. Planted 136 individual cloves within a 4' x 5' area of one of our raised beds. I figure there should be time left to plant something in there for a fall harvest, especially if we get seeds started indoors and then transplant once the garlic has been harvested.
> 
> With the planting of the garlic, this marks the end of our garden work for the year. The only thing that I might do yet before the ground freezes is to drive in some posts to put up another cattle panel for an arched trellis.


Chesnok is in my top three favorites. Was only able to get a small amount of it at the farmer's markets this summer. All the biggest heirloom garlic growers in this area had a bad year with the weather the way it was. 

I've done a lot of learning this year about things to grow in short seasons and cold weather harvest. It's surprising the number of things people plant in cold northern areas that they start in late summer/early fall and harvest well into the winter, sometimes out from under a couple feet of snow in January.
Fruition Seeds in the Finger Lakes region of New York has seeds that are specifically bred for the cold north and has a lot of specialty heirlooms developed for cold weather. 
My Tatsoi/Asian Spinach is doing great now since weave had a couple mild frosts. Couple breeds of lettuce that really like the cold too. Mustard Greens, Collards...

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## JerseyHighlander

The fall winter, inside garden is going strong along with things still going outside both in pots and in the ground. Inside, I'm up to three grow lights now and looking to add a couple more soon but I'm already beyond maxed out for space. Once I decided that inside, under the lights is what works best for me here, and having developed a pretty good system using those soil block makers I bought, I planted 16 Romaine lettuce of various kinds, another 16 spinach, a mess of Mustard Greens and some other medicinal plants with a plan to continue succession planting through the winter. 
Between the soil blocks and the lights, most of the seeds are germinating within just a couple days and progress rapidly. Found certain seeds to be duds and I'm struggling with space and having enough pots but I'm starting to get the hang of it.

Put these lettuce seeds in the 3/4 mini blocks just four days prior on Sept 28th. 
Oct 2nd




Having just received my third light, relegating the short one to seed starting and being pressed for space..., a gear driven bandsaw I've had on the someday list for a rebuild for way too many years, was pressed into service in what I think was a burst of creative genius.









Oct 7th. Spinach coming up in front of the lettuce.




That was enough root growth in these mini blocks to move them up into the 2x2 blocks and they looked like this on the 12th.





Oct 20th, the spinach were potted up and some more lettuce and mustard greens that were seeded on the 4th joined the others in the 2x2 blocks.




Oct 27th. - Don't ask me what I'm using for a table here, I'm not telling, the bandsaw thing is bad enough.

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## Sprung

I had a few things that I was going to let grow a bit longer, into the cold. Unfortunately the animals have been eating on them. For example, I had planted some lettuce for a fall harvest. Every time the leaves got to be about 2", eaten right down to the ground... I think a hoop house might be in order for some things next year. Leeks would've stayed in the ground longer, and would have been advantageous to wait and harvest when we were less busy, but my wife harvested them, not realizing I wanted to leave them in longer - same with the bok choy.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

JerseyHighlander said:


> The fall winter, inside garden is going strong along with things still going outside both in pots and in the ground. Inside, I'm up to three grow lights now and looking to add a couple more soon but I'm already beyond maxed out for space. Once I decided that inside, under the lights is what works best for me here, and having developed a pretty good system using those soil block makers I bought, I planted 16 Romaine lettuce of various kinds, another 16 spinach, a mess of Mustard Greens and some other medicinal plants with a plan to continue succession planting through the winter.
> Between the soil blocks and the lights, most of the seeds are germinating within just a couple days and progress rapidly. Found certain seeds to be duds and I'm struggling with space and having enough pots but I'm starting to get the hang of it.
> 
> Put these lettuce seeds in the 3/4 mini blocks just four days prior on Sept 28th.
> Oct 2nd
> View attachment 233295
> 
> Having just received my third light, relegating the short one to seed starting and being pressed for space..., a gear driven bandsaw I've had on the someday list for a rebuild for way too many years, was pressed into service in what I think was a burst of creative genius.
> View attachment 233296
> 
> 
> View attachment 233297
> 
> Oct 7th. Spinach coming up in front of the lettuce.
> View attachment 233298
> 
> That was enough root growth in these mini blocks to move them up into the 2x2 blocks and they looked like this on the 12th.
> 
> View attachment 233300
> 
> Oct 20th, the spinach were potted up and some more lettuce and mustard greens that were seeded on the 4th joined the others in the 2x2 blocks.View attachment 233301
> 
> 
> Oct 27th. - Don't ask me what I'm using for a table here, I'm not telling, the bandsaw thing is bad enough.
> View attachment 233302
> 
> View attachment 233299


Looks a lot like my stuff. My outdoor work table is a 5 foot stainless restaurant prep table. My tool storage is a single door dis used commercial freezer, My outdoor chick brooder is an out of service chiller/sales display. My small plywood storage is a double door commercial freezer. And I have a 2 door prep table out back waiting for refurbishment into a drying kiln. Not a lot of work to it just finding the time...
We all have our eccentricities. My sweet heart happens to have a 10 gallon crock that has been her trashcan ever since I brought it home. Her planters tend to veer toward Fenton and murano bowls pressed into service much against my will. 
That being said...
Nice patch of greens. I just planted my potatoes and onions and this past weekend, added about 250 gallons of water to the interior of the greenhouse in a first attempt at passive temperature equalizing. Now for the thermometer to find out how it is doing...

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## 2feathers Creative Making

Sprung said:


> I had a few things that I was going to let grow a bit longer, into the cold. Unfortunately the animals have been eating on them. For example, I had planted some lettuce for a fall harvest. Every time the leaves got to be about 2", eaten right down to the ground... I think a hoop house might be in order for some things next year. Leeks would've stayed in the ground longer, and would have been advantageous to wait and harvest when we were less busy, but my wife harvested them, not realizing I wanted to leave them in longer - same with the bok choy.


Fast and furious hoop house is cattle panels for me. I have used pvc before but didn't install my cross braces so the longevity suffered...
If I were to work a semi permanent hoop house, I would look at a snap together storage unit that was designed with tarp covers in mind. Then, I (being 'frugal') would likely replicate in schedule 80 pvc to withstand the moisture better.

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## trc65

JerseyHighlander said:


> The fall winter, inside garden is going strong along with things still going outside both in pots and in the ground. Inside, I'm up to three grow lights now and looking to add a couple more soon but I'm already beyond maxed out for space. Once I decided that inside, under the lights is what works best for me here, and having developed a pretty good system using those soil block makers I bought, I planted 16 Romaine lettuce of various kinds, another 16 spinach, a mess of Mustard Greens and some other medicinal plants with a plan to continue succession planting through the winter.
> Between the soil blocks and the lights, most of the seeds are germinating within just a couple days and progress rapidly. Found certain seeds to be duds and I'm struggling with space and having enough pots but I'm starting to get the hang of it.
> 
> Put these lettuce seeds in the 3/4 mini blocks just four days prior on Sept 28th.
> Oct 2nd
> View attachment 233295
> 
> Having just received my third light, relegating the short one to seed starting and being pressed for space..., a gear driven bandsaw I've had on the someday list for a rebuild for way too many years, was pressed into service in what I think was a burst of creative genius.
> View attachment 233296
> 
> 
> View attachment 233297
> 
> Oct 7th. Spinach coming up in front of the lettuce.
> View attachment 233298
> 
> That was enough root growth in these mini blocks to move them up into the 2x2 blocks and they looked like this on the 12th.
> 
> View attachment 233300
> 
> Oct 20th, the spinach were potted up and some more lettuce and mustard greens that were seeded on the 4th joined the others in the 2x2 blocks.View attachment 233301
> 
> 
> Oct 27th. - Don't ask me what I'm using for a table here, I'm not telling, the bandsaw thing is bad enough.
> View attachment 233302
> 
> View attachment 233299


If you've got the space, consider doing something like my seed starting rack out of PVC. Shelves don't move but lights on chains go up and down depending on need. With the design I used, I can keep plants until ~10-12” under lights. It was cheap to make and nothing is glued together so it can be changed as needs changed. Mine was made for four ft florescent/led lights, but could be adapted for any light size.

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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> If you've got the space, consider doing something like my seed starting rack out of PVC. Shelves don't move but lights on chains go up and down depending on need. With the design I used, I can keep plants until ~10-12” under lights. It was cheap to make and nothing is glued together so it can be changed as needs changed. Mine was made for four ft florescent/led lights, but could be adapted for any light size.


I have been thinking of exactly that lately. If I only had several square feet of floor space to put the shelves. I could potentially do a second tier over my current space but my mental state is in constant prep to bugout to the north any minute and trying to avoid doing anything more in this place. Kinda stuck in not know wether I'm coming or going... getting near time to throw some TNT on this log jam.

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## JerseyHighlander

Sprung said:


> I had a few things that I was going to let grow a bit longer, into the cold. Unfortunately the animals have been eating on them. For example, I had planted some lettuce for a fall harvest. Every time the leaves got to be about 2", eaten right down to the ground... I think a hoop house might be in order for some things next year. Leeks would've stayed in the ground longer, and would have been advantageous to wait and harvest when we were less busy, but my wife harvested them, not realizing I wanted to leave them in longer - same with the bok choy.


Any kind of construction that keeps the critters out appears to be a major step up to me. A very cheap electric fence has been a real blessing for me this summer, put up very impromptu when a groundhog started chompin my broccoli one day this spring. 
Just a few weeks ago a momma bear with her three cubs had been coming and going through the yard, got attracted to the garden area over a batch of Kefir (liquid yogurt) that got dumped in the compost pile. I ran out to yell and scare them off, before I could say a word I hear what sounds like someone up there yell out loud and realized one of the bears backed up into the electric fence... Two of them went up a tree like a shot and the other two split in separate directions into the woods. It was like a scene from The Three Stooges.

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## JerseyHighlander

2feathers Creative Making said:


> Looks a lot like my stuff. My outdoor work table is a 5 foot stainless restaurant prep table. My tool storage is a single door dis used commercial freezer, My outdoor chick brooder is an out of service chiller/sales display. My small plywood storage is a double door commercial freezer. And I have a 2 door prep table out back waiting for refurbishment into a drying kiln. Not a lot of work to it just finding the time...
> We all have our eccentricities. My sweet heart happens to have a 10 gallon crock that has been her trashcan ever since I brought it home. Her planters tend to veer toward Fenton and murano bowls pressed into service much against my will.
> That being said...
> Nice patch of greens. I just planted my potatoes and onions and this past weekend, added about 250 gallons of water to the interior of the greenhouse in a first attempt at passive temperature equalizing. Now for the thermometer to find out how it is doing...


Yah, if nothing else life is never boring for us. 
Potatoes in the ground now to come up in spring? I was wondering if I could do that or not. 
I just stumbled on a series of videos promoting this high end geodesic dome greenhouse. Pricey as @#[email protected] but it used a big water tank on the back wall to store heat, all designed for use in extreme cold climates. Had some reflectors on the back/north wall to reflect heat to the tank.


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## Sprung

JerseyHighlander said:


> Just a few weeks ago a momma bear with her three cubs had been coming and going through the yard, got attracted to the garden area over a batch of Kefir (liquid yogurt) that got dumped in the compost pile. I ran out to yell and scare them off, before I could say a word I hear what sounds like someone up there yell out loud and realized one of the bears backed up into the electric fence... Two of them went up a tree like a shot and the other two split in separate directions into the woods. It was like a scene from The Three Stooges.



That would've been funny to watch!

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## JerseyHighlander

State of the greens as of yesterday.





And a question. Anybody have any idea what's doing this to my pepper plant?
It's getting the same nutrients and everything else as other pepper plants that have no sign of this and are doing really well.

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## JerseyHighlander

Sprung said:


> That would've been funny to watch!


Told my wife I'm glad the momma bear didn't charge me, I was laughing so hard I'd have been helpless.

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## trc65

@JerseyHighlander Your pepper plant looks like a chimera to me. Probably a spontaneous mutation in the parent plant while the seed was developing. May produce some peppers, but if it does won't be as productive as it has much less green tissue. Could keep it as a novelty, or just cull it as it's taking up space that you could utilize with other plants.

@2feathers Creative Making what USDA hardiness zone are you in? Question refers to you planting potatoes now for spring emergence. I could never do that here as our ground freezes too deep for too long. The potatoes would freeze as well and would be decomposed mush by spring. Assume you use whole tubers rather than cutting them?

As to your passive thermal with water, should work very well. I use old laundry detergent jugs with water in my cold frame every spring. Gives me between 5-10° increased temp on cold nights.

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## 2feathers Creative Making

trc65 said:


> @2feathers Creative Making what USDA hardiness zone are you in? Question refers to you planting potatoes now for spring emergence. I could never do that here as our ground freezes too deep for too long. The potatoes would freeze as well and would be decomposed mush by spring. Assume you use whole tubers rather than cutting them?
> 
> As to your passive thermal with water, should work very well. I use old laundry detergent jugs with water in my cold frame every spring. Gives me between 5-10° increased temp on cold nights.


6b to 7a . I used cuts. They were planted under the garden cover. I am doing this as a learning thing. Can't really be any worse than my summer taters. Had 1 row, harvested just about the same poundage as I planted...

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## Mike Hill

JerseyHighlander said:


> State of the greens as of yesterday.
> 
> View attachment 233304
> 
> And a question. Anybody have any idea what's doing this to my pepper plant?
> It's getting the same nutrients and everything else as other pepper plants that have no sign of this and are doing really well.
> View attachment 233305
> 
> View attachment 233306


Stabilize it, patent it, and make a fortune!

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## Mike Hill

JerseyHighlander said:


> Any kind of construction that keeps the critters out appears to be a major step up to me. A very cheap electric fence has been a real blessing for me this summer, put up very impromptu when a groundhog started chompin my broccoli one day this spring.
> Just a few weeks ago a momma bear with her three cubs had been coming and going through the yard, got attracted to the garden area over a batch of Kefir (liquid yogurt) that got dumped in the compost pile. I ran out to yell and scare them off, before I could say a word I hear what sounds like someone up there yell out loud and realized one of the bears backed up into the electric fence... Two of them went up a tree like a shot and the other two split in separate directions into the woods. It was like a scene from The Three Stooges.


uhhhhh.......Lil Mikey cannot get his head around this! He's got critters, namely coons. Now that the Airbnb is not next door the 2-legged critters ain't bothering him as much. But bears!!!!! Just walk outside and have bears in the yard? Come to think about it, I think I'd rather have them than the idiots that are moving in here!

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## JerseyHighlander

2feathers Creative Making said:


> 6b to 7a . I used cuts. They were planted under the garden cover. I am doing this as a learning thing. Can't really be any worse than my summer taters. Had 1 row, harvested just about the same poundage as I planted...





Mike Hill said:


> uhhhhh.......Lil Mikey cannot get his hear around this! He's got critters, namely coons. Now that the Airbnb is not next door the 2-legged critters ain't bothering him as much. But bears!!!!! Just walk outside and have bears in the yard? Come to think about it, I think I'd rather have them than the idiots that are moving in here!


I'll take the bears any day over the two-legged buffoons. 
Last Sunday morning was interesting though. Woke up early, cold morning, I stoked the wood in the woodstove and I'm standing there soaking up some heat, stretching the knots out of my neck and I hear an odd noise from across the room behind me. I turn and look to the large picture window on the back wall, the one the bird feeder is hanging from the roof eaves in front of... and there's this huge, huge black face in the window, about eight feet above ground level outside. He's got one paw on the window sill and reaching up for the feeder someone who will remain nameless, was stupid enough to leave up this time of year. 
I've been concerned that it's a matter of time before one of Yogi's cousins breaks that window and he's about to lean a huge paw against the middle of it, so of course, I go running straight at it, screaming like a banshee... hollering, hollering is more masculine than screaming... 
There I am standing literally face to face with a near 600lb bear with two large pieces of 1/16" glass between us. He doesn't scoot and run like I was hoping for, just turns and looks straight at me, kinda confused looking. So I slam my fist into the trim around the window and holler some more. He just takes a step back and starts trying to figure out how he's still coming out of this with that bird seed. Between me and the dog he decided to leave, but he made sure it was apparent that it was his decision and moseyed off nice and slow.
Wife and Connor got some good pictures of the momma and cubs napping in the trees a couple weeks ago, I'll post em to the other thread when I get them to turn them over.


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## JerseyHighlander

I'm sure most of you have at least heard of if not feasted on Surf & Turf or as they say, something from the land, something from the sea... Well, we had an alteration of that tonight, kind of. 

Something from the garden, in something from the shop. 

Otherwise known as Tatsoi in Black Cherry. Tatsoi finally came alive when it started getting cold. Mrs. Highlander makes a sauce/dressing that is poured over it hot, wilting it just a touch. Good stuff.

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## trc65

I like your combination!

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## JerseyHighlander

Most of the summer and early fall, I thought the Tatsoi was a lost cause. Even in the pots and under the lights it just struggled but when the cold weather hit, it came to life. I should have known as this is something I came to know when we belonged to the CSA farm, as winter greens. We typically didn't start getting it till early December and had it through January. The seed supplier espoused it's "grow it all winter" properties but also said it was the best option for summer "spinach"... Not so much in my experience.

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## Mike Hill

Yeh about 4 or 5 years ago I bought some seed from Baker Creek. Planted it in late spring and it did not do much and I gave up on it. Still have not tasted it. Same year I bought some of their snake bean seeds and white bitter melon. Man, those were kinda wild looking.


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## JerseyHighlander

It's billed as Asian Sinach and the taste is similar. The one we used to get from the farm always had a bitter note to it. Not terrible bitter, kindof like Dandelion greens, which I like but the kids usually aren't fond of yet.

Your summers probably being hotter than ours, I'm not surprised it didn't do well but you having milder winters too, it's probably not too late to start it now. For me, using a heat mat under the mini soil blocks, the seeds were fully germinated in less than 24 hours.
I'm getting ready to start the next succession of lettuce and mustard greens, think I'm going to throw a line of the Tatsoi seed in there too and see what I get... Almost all the leaves are off the trees now so I finally have sun!


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## 2feathers Creative Making

JerseyHighlander said:


> I'm sure most of you have at least heard of if not feasted on Surf & Turf or as they say, something from the land, something from the sea... Well, we had an alteration of that tonight, kind of.
> 
> Something from the garden, in something from the shop.
> 
> Otherwise known as Tatsoi in Black Cherry. Tatsoi finally came alive when it started getting cold. Mrs. Highlander makes a sauce/dressing that is poured over it hot, wilting it just a touch. Good stuff.
> 
> View attachment 233592


Is this hollow and does it LOVE water? Or am I thinking of another Asian veggie?
I only bought mine at the Nashville Chinese market so I only know it as com sing Tsai or something like that. Means empty heart and tends to grow in wet areas.


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## trc65

I'm getting ready to harvest some Chinese cabbage. It is not a spring veggie, you have to wait till mid July or so to seed it or transplant it. Less to do with temps, more to do with day length I believe. Tatsoi /bok choy may be similar.


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## JerseyHighlander

2feathers Creative Making said:


> Is this hollow and does it LOVE water? Or am I thinking of another Asian veggie?
> I only bought mine at the Nashville Chinese market so I only know it as com sing Tsai or something like that. Means empty heart and tends to grow in wet areas.


Not hollow enough that I've taken notice of it. great affinity for water... I don't think so. Roughly the same as other veggies. 

I think what you're referring to has very stringy stems, like celary, no?


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## 2feathers Creative Making

JerseyHighlander said:


> Not hollow enough that I've taken notice of it. great affinity for water... I don't think so. Roughly the same as other veggies.
> 
> I think what you're referring to has very stringy stems, like celary, no?


More like watercress so... just most states don't allow you to grow it anywhere near a watercourse because it will invade


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## Mike Hill

Don't got nuthen to eat outta the garden right now - well except for horseradish. But do have some of my pretties to show off. All are from 6" to 9" diameter. I think there are a few more to open fully yet.

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## JerseyHighlander

Mike Hill said:


> Don't got nuthen to eat outta the garden right now - well except for horseradish. But do have some of my pretties to show off. All are from 6" to 9" diameter. I think there are a few more to open fully yet.
> 
> View attachment 233629View attachment 233630View attachment 233631
> View attachment 233632View attachment 233633View attachment 233634View attachment 233636


I imagine they must smell spectacular... I'm not up on my landscape flowers, what are they?
Horseradish! I love Horseradish. Used to make a droolworthy Horseradish sauce. Unfortunately, Pestilence Farms can kill even Horseradish root. Another thing I look forward to growing once I've escaped this place.


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## Eric Rorabaugh

@Mike Hill 
What are those in the third pic?


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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> @JerseyHighlander Your pepper plant looks like a chimera to me. Probably a spontaneous mutation in the parent plant while the seed was developing. May produce some peppers, but if it does won't be as productive as it has much less green tissue. Could keep it as a novelty, or just cull it as it's taking up space that you could utilize with other plants.
> 
> @2feathers Creative Making what USDA hardiness zone are you in? Question refers to you planting potatoes now for spring emergence. I could never do that here as our ground freezes too deep for too long. The potatoes would freeze as well and would be decomposed mush by spring. Assume you use whole tubers rather than cutting them?
> 
> As to your passive thermal with water, should work very well. I use old laundry detergent jugs with water in my cold frame every spring. Gives me between 5-10° increased temp on cold nights.


Keep forgetting to reply to this, regarding the pepper. If it is a mutation, I'm guessing the entire packet of seeds is likely no good..? The plant was flowering outside and when I took it in and under the lights, it began growing again and flowering profusely, even started to get a pepper but it has since disappeared. Still many flowers on it but doesn't appear to be going anywhere so I'm likely going to terminate it. By contrast, the nearby Cayenne peppers are doing great and producing like mad under the lights.

Regarding the potatoes... I was considering just putting back all the little ones that never turned into anything but still had roots on them. Being in the forest, I've an abundance of leaves and figured a couple feet of them layered over that area, maybe with a tarp on top to keep them from getting wet, would be a good insulator. More just playing around to see what happens than anything.


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## JerseyHighlander

2feathers Creative Making said:


> More like watercress so... just most states don't allow you to grow it anywhere near a watercourse because it will invade


Ah. I don't think Tatsoi is what you're thinking about. The Tatsoi grows from several inches to two feet tall in a fairly tight rosette. I checked the cut stems, they aren't hollow at all.

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## Mike Hill

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> @Mike Hill
> What are those in the third pic?


Danged! Gett'n forgetful in my old age. All are Japanese Chrysanthemums. Similar to the cushion mums in orange and yellow you see a lot this time of year out front at mailboxes and on the front steps. these are different and have to be grown decidedly differently. I think there are 13 classifications (flower shapes) of the Japanese Chrysanthemums and I think there are 5 or 6 in my pics. I cannot remember the names of any except the one you asked about @Eric Rorabaugh. It is an Unclassified Exotic named Lili Gallon. There is another one similar that has not fully bloomed yet. It is an irregular incurve that goes by...........not sure I can even say the name..........but I will try............got the soap ready to wash out my mouth afterwards...........Crimson Tide...........there I said it.........cough..cough...gargle....gargle.....!!!!!

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## Mike Hill

JerseyHighlander said:


> I imagine they must smell spectacular... I'm not up on my landscape flowers, what are they?
> Horseradish! I love Horseradish. Used to make a droolworthy Horseradish sauce. Unfortunately, Pestilence Farms can kill even Horseradish root. Another thing I look forward to growing once I've escaped this place.


Japanese Chrysanthemums. And unfortunately they smell like mums which is not something one would apply to their pulse points.

I waiting on the Horseradish sauce recipe. hint hint

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## Eric Rorabaugh

I'll definitely lppk for the crimson tide since we are ROLL TIDE fans


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## JerseyHighlander

Mike Hill said:


> Japanese Chrysanthemums. And unfortunately they smell like mums which is not something one would apply to their pulse points.
> 
> I waiting on the Horseradish sauce recipe. hint hint


I think you mis-take me... The only aromatherapy going on around here is that of spent powder wafting up from a warm barrel. 

Horseradish Sauce recipe coming up.

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## JerseyHighlander

Some Forellenschuss that came to dinner, I forgot to post. It's another good winter lettuce. Grown entirely in a pot and a pot that really should have been bigger.
"HEIRLOOM This marvelously speckled romaine has roots deep in 18th Century Germany, her name ‘Forellenschluss’ translating to ‘Speckled Like a Trout’"





And the Horseradish sauce recipe. The missus directed me to the youtube video where she found it. Fair warning, you may want to have a gas mask at the ready,

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## trc65

JerseyHighlander said:


> Keep forgetting to reply to this, regarding the pepper. If it is a mutation, I'm guessing the entire packet of seeds is likely no good..?


I wouldn't throw out the packet. Impossible to know where the mutation occurred. Could be just one or a few seeds from one individual pepper, probably not all seeds. Additionally, the seeds in your packet probably came from a bulk supplier with seeds from dozens or hundreds of individual peppers. You may have just won the lottery and found the one mutated seed from amongst tens of thousands of seeds.

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## trc65

Getting cold now, so started digging potatoes. This is from 25 feet of Kennebec spuds. Happy with the size and quality of these. I vine killed these the third week of August and have been storing these in the ground since then.





Size reference, this spud is probably 16 oz or more.





Also grabbed the rest of acorn squash.





And cut a couple stalks of Brussels sprouts.





Will finish getting everything else out of the garden tomorrow.

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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> I wouldn't throw out the packet. Impossible to know where the mutation occurred. Could be just one or a few seeds from one individual pepper, probably not all seeds. Additionally, the seeds in your packet probably came from a bulk supplier with seeds from dozens or hundreds of individual peppers. You may have just won the lottery and found the one mutated seed from amongst tens of thousands of seeds.


Didn't come from a bulk supplier, they are kind of an oddball variety, but you're right, it's unlikely all the seeds in the packet are from the same pepper or plant. I'll probably just plan on planting twice as much as I want next spring to be able to cull rejects and still have what I hoped for. 

They're somewhat unique plants and peppers. The flowers actually have a deep purple on the tips of each white petal. Very unique peppers also. 








Organic Collage | Between the Lines Sweet Pepper - Fruition Seeds


Organic Collage | Between the Lines Sweet Pepper - Of course, she's sweet and crunchy, early and abundant, incredibly gorgeous both in foliage, flower and fruit......and so ready to tell us so much more.




www.fruitionseeds.com

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## JerseyHighlander

Curious if anyone can ID these plants. Growing wild in my front yard, in mostly shade on the side the hill. Leaves can range from the size of an adult hand to twice that size. Flowers are roughly an inch or so fully open. The plants stand between 3-4 feet high on somewhat woody stems. 





These pods open first and the purpleish/red flower petals come on later.


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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> Getting cold now, so started digging potatoes. This is from 25 feet of Kennebec spuds. Happy with the size and quality of these. I vine killed these the third week of August and have been storing these in the ground since then.
> 
> View attachment 233649
> 
> Size reference, this spud is probably 16 oz or more.
> 
> View attachment 233650
> 
> Also grabbed the rest of acorn squash.
> 
> View attachment 233651
> 
> And cut a couple stalks of Brussels sprouts.
> 
> View attachment 233652
> 
> Will finish getting everything else out of the garden tomorrow.


Nice spuds. Can you elaborate on the "vine kill" part? Just cut all the greens away at some point?

Now I'm craving baked Acorn Squash. I think I like those old wooden crates most of all...

My pumpkins were a dud this year except that I learned a lot and now looking forward to spring. Praying I'll be north by that point and have more sun to work with but if nothing else, I really worked out the kinks as far a feeding the squash and making them produce and that was from seed direct sown that took over a month to even come up. Doing transplants next year should be a big step up, I hope. 
But I took what started out as a languishing sickly plant and actually got a LI Cheese Pumpkin to grow for the first time ever (only my second attempt). Went from sparse, all male blossoms to prolific flowing with lots of female flowers... Got the kinks worked out a bit too late in the season and then the weather went sideways very early so the biggest of the two pumpkins I got wasn't a lot bigger than a softball when I cut it from the dead vine, but I consider it a success, just needed another month of warm weather behind it that didn't materialize. I'll just have to wait to brew pumpkin ale from my own pumpkins till next fall.


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## trc65

Potatoes are "vine killed" to stop growth of the tubers and allow them to start maturing so they can "set" skin. Takes about two weeks for tubers to harden skin so harvest and handling doesn't cause too much injury. The skin on potatoes acts much as human skin and prevents infection of pathogens, dehydration, etc.

If you are eating them fresh, no problem, but if storing them you want good skin for protection.

Before the chemical revolution, growers would use rollers to crush the vines and cause them to start dying. Organic growers (and other small market growers) still use rollers or even forage choppers to kill vines. Commercially, vine killing is done chemically with non systemic (contact) chemicals that cause rapid dessication.

Vine killing is also used if you are harvesting for a specific market niche such as small "B" sized red potatoes. The potatoes will be killed when a majority of the tubers are still small.

Those crates are what we used at various research farms to harvest and store potatoes. I was told they were all made of wet oak, nailed together and then dried. They are handy, but that crate full of spuds is 60-70#. The research farms have since switched to smaller plastic crates that stack easier, weigh less and are easy to clean and sanitize.

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## Mr. Peet

JerseyHighlander said:


> Curious if anyone can ID these plants. Growing wild in my front yard, in mostly shade on the side the hill. Leaves can range from the size of an adult hand to twice that size. Flowers are roughly an inch or so fully open. The plants stand between 3-4 feet high on somewhat woody stems.
> 
> View attachment 233690
> 
> These pods open first and the purpleish/red flower petals come on later.
> View attachment 233691
> 
> View attachment 233692


Did you compare to the several varieties of Wineberry?


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## JerseyHighlander

Mr. Peet said:


> Did you compare to the several varieties of Wineberry?


The leaves on the Wineberry aren't quite right, not the ones I've seen anyway. These leaves actually resemble Hydrastis/Goldenseal quite a bit. Have never noticed any berry or other fruit on them either but around here anything that produces something edible gets eaten pretty fast.


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## JerseyHighlander

Another rabbit hole entered. Got my self a new 2 gallon stoneware crock the other day, wife picked up a few more cabbages at the farmer's market yesterday and so I started several pounds of kraut today. Been wanting to do kraut for several years and have enthusiastically done all kinds of other fermenting for years now, including "borrowing" cultures from purchased ferments but just never put the time aside for kraut. 
The CSA farm we used to belong to always did barrels of kraut and gave us a bag with our weekly share all fall & winter so wasn't a dire need till this year. I wanted to have more control over the way it was done anyway. 
As far as I know, I'm the first Kraut in my family to make my own sourtkraut since my great, great grand-pappy came over from Deutschland. I've the feeling I'll be adding another crock or three in no time.

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## trc65

Nothing better than homemade kraut, unless it's some homemade kimchi!

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## 2feathers Creative Making

JerseyHighlander said:


> Another rabbit hole entered. Got my self a new 2 gallon stoneware crock the other day, wife picked up a few more cabbages at the farmer's market yesterday and so I started several pounds of kraut today. Been wanting to do kraut for several years and have enthusiastically done all kinds of other fermenting for years now, including "borrowing" cultures from purchased ferments but just never put the time aside for kraut.
> The CSA farm we used to belong to always did barrels of kraut and gave us a bag with our weekly share all fall & winter so wasn't a dire need till this year. I wanted to have more control over the way it was done anyway.
> As far as I know, I'm the first Kraut in my family to make my own sourtkraut since my great, great grand-pappy came over from Deutschland. I've the feeling I'll be adding another crock or three in no time.


My folks have been making their own kraut for years. Really simple to make. Best of luck. I am sure you will enjoy.

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## Mike Hill

Homemade kraut = good stuff. For fun, get wild and throw other stuff in a small batch - kohlrabi., turnip, beets, carrots, and the like.

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## JerseyHighlander

trc65 said:


> Nothing better than homemade kraut, unless it's some homemade kimchi!


I like good Kimchi too. That's next on the list.

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## JerseyHighlander

Mike Hill said:


> Homemade kraut = good stuff. For fun, get wild and throw other stuff in a small batch - kohlrabi., turnip, beets, carrots, and the like.


Have plans on exactly that. Thinking carrot, beets and ginger root.


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## Herb G.

Y'alls gardens did well this year. Good looking stuff for sure.

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## Sprung

This summer our boys got to try currants for the first time and liked them. The person who had them is going to take from his bushes so we can transplant some into our yard next year, but in the meantime last night he gave me a couple large containers of currants (mostly white, with a few red mixed in) that he's had in his freezer for us. Last night I cooked them down and ran them through the food mill, then a fine mesh strainer. Tonight I made jelly - got 10 half pint jars. And then I took the remainder and mixed it with apple juice and sugar, and canned that as well, as a syrup for mixing with soda water - got 5 pints of that.

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