# Possible Hickory burl ID..?



## Danny H

This came from an arborist. it sat on the ground for a while which is why was not 110% sure, but he really thought was hickory. 
I have pics below. Ive got this massive trunk that appears to have the bark and look of hickory. What's throwing me off a bit is that it does appear to have some eye/pin type figure in a few places. Most hickory burl doesn't seem to show that. There's not alot, but looks to be some.

Let me know what you guys think please. 

Have more pictures if you would like to see more. Thank you


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## Kevin

The tree bark itself does have the deep furrowed characteristic of mockernut, or even the slightly less furrowed of pignut, but the burl wood istelf doesn't have any of the classic hickory burl look. 

I'd like to see more pics especially of the top of the stem.


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## Danny H

I was thinking mockernut. I also started to wonder if the different species would have different burl characteristics. Once I get deeper into it I guess I'll see more.

I'm not sure what you mean by top of the stem Kevin. Here is a pic of the rest of it I haven't cut into


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## Kevin

The stem is the short stubby portion of the tree trunk still attached to the burl. You showed the top in your last pic. 

Based on this last image I'm 99% certain you have a hickory burl. Most likely mockernut. My ID commission is a very modest 50% of the wood.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Kevin

Seriously though, if you find some really nice classic hick burl pattern in there and want top dollar for it, I'll tag @DDadams for you. He's always on the lookout for it and he's an honest guy to deal with.


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## Danny H

Hahaha! Thank you Kevin. If this is hickory and turns out the way I'm hoping I'd love to share it with people. There is probably 150# of burl (wet) here. Being that it's so rare-ish I'd like to help the world out with some :)

These last pics are sealed, so the color is a bit off, but it has the kind of brown swirls chocolate/vanilla looking stuff starting to show I think.
Thank you again

Reactions: Way Cool 1


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## Kevin

This is what you're trying to find in it....



 

I gave most of mine away too. If I ever come across anymore I am going to guard it with my life.

Reactions: Like 1 | EyeCandy! 2


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## manbuckwal

Danny you should post a pic of your call made from Hick Burl .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Danny H

Yes I know very well what I'm hoping to find. Very excited, but I just keep doubting is reality!
It's all this first peice I ever bought's fault :) it's no doubt my favorite American burl! Maybe favorite overall even.

Reactions: EyeCandy! 4


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## manbuckwal

Kevin said:


> This is what you're trying to find in it....
> 
> View attachment 105854
> 
> I gave most of mine away too. If I ever come across anymore I am going to guard it with my life.




I still have the two pen blanks I got from ya

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## Danny H

Any one in particular? I've made 3 now all coupled with ABW. I guess I'll post the ones I can find. I don't know who you are manbuckwal but I guess you know me haha. Here you go buddy

Reactions: EyeCandy! 4


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## Kevin

manbuckwal said:


> I still have the two pen blanks I got from ya



I still haven't seen a project made from any of it that I gave away. I just PM'd a couple of knifemakers asking for pics lol. Can't wait to see a pen from it. I stabilized what few pieces I kept. Not going to make a pen with it until I try a few practice pens but you don't need any practice!

Reactions: Like 1


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## manbuckwal

Kevin said:


> I still haven't seen a project made from any of it that I gave away. I just PM'd a couple of knifemakers asking for pics lol. Can't wait to see a pen from it. I stabilized what few pieces I kept. Not going to make a pen with it until I try a few practice pens but you don't need any practice!



Mine are stabilized also, I just have'nt decided on a kit, but the Jr Abraham is a likely candidate a

Reactions: EyeCandy! 3


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## Kevin

I *LOVE* that kit - one of my top 5 favorites. Maybe top 3.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Danny H

That's a heck of a pen! With hickory it would be incredible

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Mr. Peet

I'm not seeing it well. I tried enlarging the picture but it blurred before getting big enough to look at the few buds protruding from the mass. First glance says "narl" to me, basically the same as a "burl" but lacking eyes. The bark did remind me of "bitternut hickory" a bit, but the fissures were too wide. Laugh if you want, but I first thought it was a "basswood" (_Tilia spp_) at first look. The bark fissures matched, the heartwood color matched many cut with heart-rot, and the wood appeared diffuse porous versus the ring porous hickories.

How dense / hard is the wood? Does it dent with the fingernail, and if so, how easily?


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## Danny H

It dents with finger nail just barely if I push really hard and kind of dig into it. A few more pics showing some other views


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## Danny H

My phone screwed up. Here's a bit of straight grain under florescent light. Sorry, I can get sunlight tmrw the center mass of it has began to spalt, and the side that sat on the ground for a long while started to rot


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## Danny H

End grain, under florescent. If I need to get closer ill have to break out the nice camera :)


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## Mr. Peet

Now, I meant to do the fingernail test on the normal growth wood. Burls and narls are usually different consistencies. Which wood did you do it on?


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## Danny H

The normal wood.. Not the burl


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## phinds

Danny H said:


> End grain, under florescent. If I need to get closer ill have to break out the nice camera :)
> 
> View attachment 105921


I don't know anything about burls but the wood in THIS image can't be hickory. Hickory is ring porous and this is diffuse porous.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kevin

phinds said:


> I don't know anything about burls but the wood in THIS image can't be hickory. Hickory is ring porous and this is diffuse porous.



I'm looking at it now on the big screen and I still can't tell that. I have to see clear and large images to be able to tell the difference. I know you have a much better eye for that than I do though. Wish I could look at a blurry image like that and tell the difference between ring and diffuse porous.

Reactions: Like 1


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## phinds

Kevin said:


> I'm looking at it now on the big screen and I still can't tell that. I have to see clear and large images to be able to tell the difference. I know you have a much better eye for that than I do though. Wish I could look at a blurry image like that and tell the difference between ring and diffuse porous.


Are you looking at the image I quoted about? That one doesn't seem blurry to me, though many of the others in this thread do. Here's a section of it. Not the sharpest image for sure but seems pretty clear that there is no line of larger earlywood pores, just a tissue-darkening demarcation between growth rings (and possible marginal parenchyma)

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## Danny H

Ill photo it under magnification this afternoon. Here's one a little closer, but I'll be able to get a very good one at work shortly

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Kevin

That looks more like semi-ring porous like Butternut, but the bark isn't butternut obviously. But I really suck at this part of ID.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kevin

It also has lots of late wood compared to early wood right Paul?


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## phinds

Kevin said:


> That looks more like semi-ring porous like Butternut, but the bark isn't butternut obviously. But I really suck at this part of ID.


Yeah, but that's not necessarily very indicative. I agree the grain pattern looks a lot like butternut. I can't be sure but I think maybe the pores are smaller & more numerous than butternut so that jibes with the bark saying it's not butternut (not that I know crap about bark; I'm counting on you for that part). Also this wood has rays that are easy to see. Unfortunately, this pattern is probably the most common one seen across woods in general. I really hate trying to pin down something with this pattern.

Also, technically this can't be semi ring porous but it sure could be semi diffuse porous (lots of authorities just lump those together but without a strong row of earlywood pores it's not technically semi ring porous). I often have a hard time really telling if something should be called semi diffuse or just diffuse. This one's a tossup.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Danny H

Here a few more....
One at 50x one at 200x


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## Danny H

Guys, I wanna say thanks for all the input, here's some other things that may help... The tree was cut in Illinois. Also it has a smell, but it's faint. I haven't harvested hickory before so I can't compare unfortunately.


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## phinds

Danny H said:


> Guys, I wanna say thanks for all the input, here's some other things that may help... The tree was cut in Illinois. Also it has a smell, but it's faint. I haven't harvested hickory before so I can't compare unfortunately.


Your hi-mag pics confirm that it is not ring porous and therefor not hickory. Wish I could tell you what it IS instead of just what it isn't.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Danny H

Is everything in the hickory family ring porous? Any category guesses even? I'd like to get into it further, but cannot start my chainsaw to save my life the last 3 days...grrrr


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## phinds

Danny H said:


> Is everything in the hickory family ring porous? Any category guesses even? I'd like to get into it further, but cannot start my chainsaw to save my life the last 3 days...grrrr


Some are semi-ring porous but I've never heard of any hickory or pecan (genus Carya) that did not have an obvious row of earlywood pores, and the line of earlywood pores is always noticeably larger than what occurs in your wood. Just check out the hickory and pecan pages on my site

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Danny H

Ok thanks. I've been reading in wood database. Looks close to bitternut, but just not quite. I don't know barks week enough to even guess in another direction... if any other pics would possibly clue you in just let me know and I'll try to get them. Or other info besides pics? Thanks


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## phinds

Danny H said:


> Ok thanks. I've been reading in wood database. Looks close to bitternut, but just not quite. I don't know barks week enough to even guess in another direction... if any other pics would possibly clue you in just let me know and I'll try to get them. Or other info besides pics? Thanks


a modest sized cutoff, something like 6"x3"x1" send to me would let me get at it up close and personal

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Danny H

I could do that. Send me an address message if you'd like


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## phinds

Mr. Peet said:


> I'm not seeing it well. I tried enlarging the picture but it blurred before getting big enough to look at the few buds protruding from the mass. First glance says "narl" to me, basically the same as a "burl" but lacking eyes. The bark did remind me of "bitternut hickory" a bit, but the fissures were too wide. Laugh if you want, but I first thought it was a "basswood" (_Tilia spp_) at first look. The bark fissures matched, the heartwood color matched many cut with heart-rot, and the wood appeared diffuse porous versus the ring porous hickories.


Mark, basswood is a reasonable guess but from the later enlargements of the end grain I think the pores are a bit too sparse in this wood for Tilia (but the Tilias can be moderately variable so I could be wrong about that).


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## Danny H

Would elm make sense at all? 
Phinds would you be willing to take a closer look? Thanks


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## JR Custom Calls

Could that be english walnut? The wood just looks walnuty to me... and the one english walnut tree I've seen had similar bark. I know that texas black walnut and ky black walnut bark looks way different, so that may be the case with english too, but it's just a thought?


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## phinds

Danny H said:


> Would elm make sense at all?
> Phinds would you be willing to take a closer look? Thanks


Yeah, if you send me a sample, that's how I'd be most likely to make an ID

EDIT: Oh. I already said that. Post #36

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## phinds

Danny H said:


> Would elm make sense at all?


Not even a remote possibility.

Reactions: Like 1


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## phinds

JR Custom Calls said:


> Could that be english walnut? The wood just looks walnuty to me... and the one english walnut tree I've seen had similar bark. I know that texas black walnut and ky black walnut bark looks way different, so that may be the case with english too, but it's just a thought?


I'm a bit confused by the different views, and know nothing about bark. All I can say is that I don't yet see anything inconsistent w/ walnut but walnut doesn't feel right to me.

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## phinds

Daniel,

Got the piece, did a first cut clean-up and a set of pics. Since I haven't done the end grain fine sanding yet, this doesn't even tell me as much as your very good pictures already tell me, but I'll get the end grain processed soon and see what I can figure out.

Paul

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Danny H

Awesome, glad it made it! Thanks Paul


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## robert flynt

Kevin said:


> I still haven't seen a project made from any of it that I gave away. I just PM'd a couple of knifemakers asking for pics lol. Can't wait to see a pen from it. I stabilized what few pieces I kept. Not going to make a pen with it until I try a few practice pens but you don't need any practice!


Have a knife almost finished with your hickory burl!

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 2


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## phinds

Well, I got the end grain fine sanded and started poking around to see what it looks like. I got some correspondence to basswood, dogwood, and tupelo but none seemed satisfactory and the sharp growth ring lines in the face grain don't really look quite like any of them either, but definitely look like maple, so I checked out the maples. 

At first, I was pretty convinced I was off track because the rays were just too big for maple, and then I found one that is the closest match of anything I can come up with so far. It's canyon maple / Acer grandidentatum.

Since I know zilch about bark, can someone tell me if maple is a possibility for this wood (or can it be ruled out) based on the bark?

Here's a 1/4" x 1/4" cross section of the mystery wood and then a similar shot of canyon maple:

Reactions: Like 1 | Thank You! 1


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## Kevin

You're a good sleuth Paul. Maple bark comes in about every variety there is from paper smooth to scaly to deeply furrowed and everything in between. The bark does resemble Norway Maple but do NOT take that as any kind of credible suggestion - my Maple skilz are confined to negundo. It also resembles ash bark but we know it ain't ash obviously from the end grain. Just saying bark ID is hard sometimes. Someone will know if that could be maple bark or not.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## phinds

Kevin said:


> You're a good sleuth Paul. Maple bark comes in about every variety there is from paper smooth to scaly to deeply furrowed and everything in between. The bark does resemble Norway Maple but do NOT take that as any kind of credible suggestion - my Maple skilz are confined to negundo. It also resembles ash bark but we know it ain't ash obviously from the end grain. Just saying bark ID is hard sometimes. Someone will know if that could be maple bark or not.


Good to know. I didn't realize maple bark was so variable but I guess I shouldn't be surprised given how many different maples there are in common use.


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## Mr. Peet

Norway maple often has bark similar to "ash" tree bark and even "Boxelder" maple, but other than that, I am not versed with more fissured bark maples.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Danny H

Paul ,
I actually had another source I sent some to last week. He concluded that it looked like silver maple, or some other decorative maple as well. Said he was 99.99% sure it's maple of some kind, so we may have a trend worth while going here. Thank you


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## phinds

Danny H said:


> Paul ,
> I actually had another source I sent some to last week. He concluded that it looked like silver maple, or some other decorative maple as well. Said he was 99.99% sure it's maple of some kind, so we may have a trend worth while going here. Thank you


Good to know. Thanks.


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## Palaswood

My initial reaction was "oh that's a maple". After reading and seeing more pics, I was leaning toward Sweetgum (liquidambar styraciflua).

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## phinds

Palaswood said:


> My initial reaction was "oh that's a maple". After reading and seeing more pics, I was leaning toward Sweetgum (liquidambar styraciflua).


As you can see on my site, the end grain of gum does not have the obvious rays that this wood has. End grain is a MUCH better indicator of species than anything else.

Have you checked out my wood anatomy pages?

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## deltatango

It reminds me of what would be called swamp maple in the northeast. They used that term as a generic for maple that grew in or near swamps that was skultchy - not really easily identifiable. It's definitely an annual layered burl as opposed to dormant bud type. Some of the side cuts remind me of red maple and or swamp maple burl that I used to work with (red maple - Acer Rubrum).

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## Palaswood

phinds said:


> As you can see on my site, the end grain of gum does not have the obvious rays that this wood has. End grain is a MUCH better indicator of species than anything else.
> 
> Have you check out my wood anatomy pages?


oh very well... ya got me. I saw them. It didn't add up but the overall look reminded me of sweetgum. Yes I will read your anatomy pages. Thanks sir!


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## phinds

Palaswood said:


> oh very well... ya got me. I saw them. It didn't add up but the overall look reminded me of sweetgum. Yes I will read your anatomy pages. Thanks sir!


That's one of the main reasons end grain can be such a help. Lots of wood can have similar face grain but if the end grain is clearly wrong, you need look no further.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## TNburlhunter

Kevin said:


> This is what you're trying to find in it....
> 
> View attachment 105854
> 
> I gave most of mine away too. If I ever come across anymore I am going to guard it with my life.


I have 5 of them that weigh around 25 to 35 pounds each. Here's a couple things ive made out of it so far and the grains are absolutely beautiful, but damn it man this stuff is the hardest densest bowl gouge dulling wood I've ever had the pleasure of turning. This stuff is so hard and dense that for a second on the first piece I would have sworn it was an engine block instead of a piece of wood lol. First pic is from the outer part of the burl, and the 2nd pic is twords the middle of the same burl. It took me about 10 yrs to talk the guy into letting me drop the tree and get them and when he finally let me, the outside was sun bleached a grayish white and the bark was completely rotted away but the wood had became like old barn wood where its rock hard but preserved and had slowed the rott so the burls themselves are completely fine and dried out, and not a crack or void one that I've found so far. The shape of all of them are perfect for turning bowls but its a task to say the least.

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## phinds

TNburlhunter said:


> I have 5 of them ...


@TNburlhunter this thread is about a piece that turned out to be maple. I'm about 95+% positive that what you have there is some kind of oak and I'm quite sure it is not any kind of maple (or hickory where the thread started out thinking it was). If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## 2feathers Creative Making

TNburlhunter said:


> I have 5 of them that weigh around 25 to 35 pounds each. Here's a couple things ive made out of it so far and the grains are absolutely beautiful, but damn it man this stuff is the hardest densest bowl gouge dulling wood I've ever had the pleasure of turning. This stuff is so hard and dense that for a second on the first piece I would have sworn it was an engine block instead of a piece of wood lol. First pic is from the outer part of the burl, and the 2nd pic is twords the middle of the same burl. It took me about 10 yrs to talk the guy into letting me drop the tree and get them and when he finally let me, the outside was sun bleached a grayish white and the bark was completely rotted away but the wood had became like old barn wood where its rock hard but preserved and had slowed the rott so the burls themselves are completely fine and dried out, and not a crack or void one that I've found so far. The shape of all of them are perfect for turning bowls but its a task to say the least.
> 
> View attachment 214309
> 
> View attachment 214310


Nice pics. Mind to run by the introduction section and fill out a quick sketch of who you are and what you like? Obviously you like spinning objects while making shavings. But a quick intro and a dash through the rules section sure would be appreciated. Thanks. See ya in the intros man

Reactions: Agree 3


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## phinds

2feathers Creative Making said:


> Nice pics. Mind to run by the introduction section and fill out a quick sketch of who you are and what you like? Obviously you like spinning objects while making shavings. But a quick intro and a dash through the rules section sure would be appreciated. Thanks. See ya in the intros man


Frank (@2feathers Creative Making) thanks for doing that. I should have done it but I get so wrapped up in the wood itself that I sometimes forget about the community here.

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