# Last workshop should be starting soon...



## TimR

Well, unless a major "oh-%[email protected]!" happens, foundation work should be starting my retirement shop in the next week or so. It's in the north GA mtns, between Blairsville and Blue Ridge for those familiar with the region. Hope to get the house started building later this year if things go well, but wanted the shop first so I don't have to move equipment and wood twice. Retirement is actually still a few years off at the earliest, but we wanted to have this place done before then, and I can still work from there.
We started having clearing done during last December to cut in a road with 3 switchbacks to keep it 2wd friendly, the last one at the top is a nice gentle one up to the home site. 
The pic is taken at a far corner of the shop clearing area that was just finished grading/compacting about a week ago, with my friend Mark and me measuring things off along what will be the entrance side. Couldn't be happier with work done by our grader, he had vision for what we'd be able to have when I couldn't, that's for sure. Hydroseeded with some love grass just before we went down to check on things, it should be green next time we go down. 
The shop is 36'x24' not counting overhangs and such. Upstairs probably has about another 500-600 sq ft after accounting for roofline losses which aren't too bad since it uses a 4' kneewall. 
I plan to finish all the electrical, plumbing and finish work to save $$, so it should be done sometime by 2020. 
I'll try to keep adding some additional progress shots as I get them. I built my current shop, so pretty confident on planning ahead for plenty of outlets and such. I don't feel like planning down to the gnats-butt to figure out burying dust collection, but welcome any thoughts folks have on 'things they wish they'd thought of' before insulation and walls getting finished. For example...I just realized reviewing the plans today that the windows on the main floor would have been lower than a workbench, so shortened the windows up a bit. That would have been a real "doh!" moment.

Reactions: Like 5 | EyeCandy! 1 | Way Cool 14


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## woodtickgreg

I'm so jealous, but very happy for you!

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 1


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## DKMD

That's awesome! One of these days for me...

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## HomeBody

Very nice. My brother has a cabin just west of Clayton near Lake Burton. My wife and I have serious thoughts about moving there in a few years. Maybe I'll meet you someday in the future in GA. Gary

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## gman2431

Very cool! And pretty smart of ya to Have a loft upstairs so when the wife kicks ya out you're by your tools! Ingenious!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Schroedc

I'm jealous. I've been starting to acquire some timber framing tools here and there for when my kids are grown and I can build a timber frame house and shop in the country.

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## TimR

Framing finally started last week.  On hold this week waiting for floor trusses to span 24' without beams/columns underneath in side shop space. Due in end of week. Weather looks good over next week or so...should see a lot done by end of next week.

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## woodtickgreg




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## ironman123

Looking good so far Tim.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## NeilYeag

Exciting project. Best of luck. Looks like a very beautiful location!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## DKMD

Wow...that's coming along nicely!

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## Lou Currier

I like the priorities....workshop first then house.

Reactions: Thank You! 1 | Agree 3


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## Kevin

Happy for you Tim! If I may add .....

Your electricians will not like the old-school framing, and frankly I wouldn't allow fire blocks unless it's required and although I am WAY out of date on code they were not even allowed at one time because the water fall from firefighting devolving structures was inhibited since they were some of the last members to fail. Fire blocks are also a MPITA for retro mods. Your framers are not adding them as blocks but just to keep the inferior studs we have today from warping so bad after lunch/the next day a snap-line doesn't show how bad they warped overnight in case you are using sheetrock. God forbid. .

Small thing compared to the excitement you must be feeling. Loving the thread mate please keep it coming.

Reactions: Thank You! 1


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## TimR

Kevin said:


> Happy for you Tim! If I may add .....
> 
> Your electricians will not like the old-school framing, and frankly I wouldn't allow fire blocks unless it's required and although I am WAY out of date on code they were not even allowed at one time because the water fall from firefighting devolving structures was inhibited since they were some of the last members to fail. Fire blocks are also a MPITA for retro mods. Your framers are not adding them as blocks but just to keep the inferior studs we have today from warping so bad after lunch/the next day a snap-line doesn't show how bad they warped overnight in case you are using sheetrock. God forbid. .
> 
> Small thing compared to the excitement you must be feeling. Loving the thread mate please keep it coming.



You're right on about materials today and need to add anything to provide stability from warping. I'll be adding a good portion of the electrical, and with plenty of both 220 and 110 outlets, so retro mods are hopefully a non-issue. Like when I did my current shop, will have almost as many outlets up at the 4' level as down low. 

So, I used sheetrock on current shop...what don't you like, if not just the ease of installing and ability to mount anything to it? What would you guys use, without going overboard on thickness? 3/8"? 

By the way, once I have all the elec run, and copper for ductless HVAC units, my choice of insulation is likely closed cell foam for it's R value and added structural support. Open cell for roofing area. 

Here's today's pic, rafters up! Driving me nuts not being there while going up and surviving on pics alone...I won't get down there for about 1-1/2 weeks...uggh.

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## Kevin

TimR said:


> By the way, once I have all the elec run, and copper for ductless HVAC units, my choice of insulation is likely closed cell foam for it's R value and added structural support. Open cell for roofing area.



All great choices IMO.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TimR

Pretty much done outside...Color looks darker in some pics, and since I've not seen it myself, I can only guess since I've not been down in weeks, but either way looks great to me. I'm happy with the roof color contrast, that was a bit of a gamble.
Chomping at the bit now to move down there...a few things left to work out and decide if we'll try to get the inside finished so we can move in upstairs while the house is built.
Builder gave us est of 2 months to do this, incl slab. Pretty much nailed it in spite of some rainy periods when work stopped.

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## rocky1

Contrast in shades may look off until you get the yard all situated Tim. Neighbor in ND built a house with similar colors and it looked bad for a year or two. I honestly wondered what they were thinking. He built it out in the middle of an open field, plowed the yard all up, planted grass, and planted the shelter belt around it. It looked better after the yard was established, and now that the shelter belt has grown up over the years, it's absolutely gorgeous.

Reactions: Like 1 | Way Cool 1


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## Mike1950

Nice shop and building site.


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## ripjack13

What the heck....why have I not seen this awesomeness yet till just now!!??

It looks great! Did you have a floor plan laid out yet?


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## TimR

ripjack13 said:


> What the heck....why have I not seen this awesomeness yet till just now!!??
> 
> It looks great! Did you have a floor plan laid out yet?


This is what I came up with Marc. I'm completely open to any suggestions from you and others. I've not thought this thru deeply, and no elec has been run yet. Keeping a lot of stuff on wheels, to keep out of way if not using. Not positive I want to leave tablesaw that close to garage door in case I want to pull my truck or other vehicle in (for whatever reason). It's a contractor saw, so not terribly difficult to move...probably ok where it is for now.

Air comp and water heater will be understairs...not much room for anything else. Dust collector in top corner, enclosed but partially vented. The electric panel ended up outside the 'under stair' area...something about "code"...whatever that is.  Yea I know...and should have known when I drew it out.
Turning area down in lower right hand corner, near windows. Hopefully I won't daydream and create funnel bowls. 
Also...though it looks like a lot, (13) 4' double fluorescent fixtures may not be enough. 
Anyone have experience with some of the newer LED variants?

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## ripjack13

Ornamental mill.....is that like @Mike1950 's ornamental lathe?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## TimR

Legacy 1200. I've used it mostly for it's ability to form an 8' long stand that holds plywood scraps, and a place for overfill from my tablesaw.
I've made a few things with it, including twist ballisters on outside deck.

They don't even make them anymore, now it's all CNC. Pretty cool machine. Uses a router on x/y lead screws and workpiece rotation as the cutting frame.


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## TimR

Ugggh!$&;/@
Have a well drilled nearly 900 ft with nowhere near enough flow or static head of water to draw from. 
Gonna have a camera sent down to see if viable to Hydrofrac, I keep hearing a sucking noise of cash going bye-bye. 
Keep fingers crossed for us that it will work without drilling another, not many good alternate sites to choose from.

On a positive note, electric starts getting run this week

Reactions: Like 1 | Sincere 1


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## rocky1

That's not good!


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## TimR

Wow, didn't realize it's been over a month and still only the smallest increase in well output. Today starts last effort with zone Hydrofrac (double vs single packer technique), then if not enough, drill a new well.
Electric is done, Hvac is installed. Now only plumbing fixtures, interior doors and trim work left.

Fracking rig



Upstairs, looking to kitchen/bath area



Upstairs looking to sleeping/office area



Shop downstairs



Shop downstairs



My wife asked me why I need such s big breaker panel...still need to install 240 breaker for well.



Sunset last night




@kweinert and others interested in how I'm heating/cooling, Mitsubishi split system. 1.5 ton downstairs, 1 ton up. 


 
2.5 ton compressor unit for both upstairs and down. Each inside unit controlled separately ...as long as one doesn't want heat and other cold. I don't see that happening.

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## Kevin

You're calling that a shop? Looks like a house that will have woodworking tools in it. Sorry about your bad luck so far with your well. Hopefully they fracking will reach out and grab enough of the table to supply the pump.



TimR said:


> My wife asked me why I need such s big breaker panel...still need to install 240 breaker for well.



You can never go too big. I've never seen a panel installed upside-down like that before though. Even when bottom-fed I always ran the mains up and looped back down to install the panel upright. In fact that's what I did in my own house which is bottom-fed. Not sure what code says about that been out of the game too long. You do however want you heaviest loads to be closest to the mains ideally.

@robert flynt you ever seen a panel installed like that?


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## kweinert

The panel I was looking at says it can be installed either way. Not that I'm an expert or anything, but I would presume that if the equipment says it can be installed either way it would be OK to do so. Although that is a big assumption.


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## TimR

Inspectors in N Ga give it an ok, it seemed odd to me, but it also made positioning the meter panel on outside at a good position, which may have been the real driver.

Also, power comes in and terminates at bottom, and all the home runs come in thru the top, so no crowding.


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## robert flynt

Kevin said:


> You're calling that a shop? Looks like a house that will have woodworking tools in it. Sorry about your bad luck so far with your well. Hopefully they fracking will reach out and grab enough of the table to supply the pump.
> 
> 
> 
> You can never go too big. I've never seen a panel installed upside-down like that before though. Even when bottom-fed I always ran the mains up and looped back down to install the panel upright. In fact that's what I did in my own house which is bottom-fed. Not sure what code says about that been out of the game too long. You do however want you heaviest loads to be closest to the mains ideally.
> 
> @robert flynt you ever seen a panel installed like that?


Never worked on residential but I can't say I've ever seen a power panel installed upside down like that. Might save a little wire if it feed in through the slab. Even the panel door is up side down.


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## rocky1

Given the layout of everything in the building, it was the most logical install... All of his heavier load is on ground floor, closer to the main, all of the lighter breakers going upstairs for outlets and light in the living quarters would have been on the bottom of the panel if installed right side up. Therefore all of the wires going upstairs, would have had to cross all of the wires going downstairs. Turn the box over and you don't have all of that B_S_ to deal with.

I've never seen it either, but it does make perfect sense.


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## Kevin

rocky1 said:


> Given the layout of everything in the building, it was the most logical install... All of his heavier load is on ground floor, closer to the main, all of the lighter breakers going upstairs for outlets and light in the living quarters would have been on the bottom of the panel if installed right side up. Therefore all of the wires going upstairs, would have had to cross all of the wires going downstairs. Turn the box over and you don't have all of that B_S_ to deal with.
> 
> I've never seen it either, but it does make perfect sense.



Obviously the heavy loads being nearer the mains have nothing to do with which way the panel is oriented - you can place them nearest the mains either way. And you saying that it makes perfect sense because the heavier loads are on the ground floor made me laugh out loud - I swear I thought you were cracking a joke with the part about crossing wires! What if he had most of his equipment in a lean-to beside his shop[ - would you suggest the panel be installed sideways? 

I did mention load placement because from the fuzzy image it looks to me like he has some lighter breakers closer to the mains than some heavier ones but the photo is fuzzy so might not be the case. I was mainly commenting on the simple fact that the panel is upside-down. It just bugs me that a tradesman would do that when it's so . . . . never done. It just makes no sense to go against standard procedure even if it doesn't violate code. I mean, what's the point? To save a few feet of wire?

I'll get over it. Maybe.


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## TimR

There are some lighter (20A 120V) breakers next to main...but I really don't see issue from a technical standpoint. They are connected to same bus bars regardless of position. The only argument (not a good one) would be something to do with voltage drop farther from main breaker, which conventional multimeters would likely not be capable of detecting a difference. Not a factor from a technical or safety perspective.
I think this is just a case of conventional practices and some folks thinking right/wrong, vs simply one way or another.


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## Kevin

TimR said:


> There are some lighter (20A 120V) breakers next to main...but I really don't see issue from a technical standpoint. They are connected to same bus bars regardless of position. The only argument (not a good one) would be something to do with voltage drop farther from main breaker, which conventional multimeters would likely not be capable of detecting a difference. Not a factor from a technical or safety perspective.
> I think this is just a case of conventional practices and some folks thinking right/wrong, vs simply one way or another.



It's one of those 110/220v vs 120/240v discussions. Virtually all woodworkers refer to voltage as either 110 or 220 when in fact the actual voltage measured will almost always be closer to 120 and 240 sometimes more.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TimR

Finally! Good news on well, after second fracking this time with double packers, improved up from 0.03 gpm to 1-3 gpm, depending on how far drawn down. Definitely sufficient, with a pump placed about 600 ft down, 120' static water level, more than adequate for the two of us and for occasional family visits! 
As dry as its been here, it's saying a lot to improve that much.
Hope to get pump set within next week or so, last big hurdle on finishing place up.

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## TimR

The well pump got set a couple weeks ago, so that major headache hopefully behind me. Been moving more stuff in to shop about once a week. 
Picked up some 3/4" prefinished oak pretty cheap so decided to put it down in upstairs temp living quarters before we bring any furniture and boxes. Forgot what a pain in the back and knees this is. Sure easier than having to sand and finish too.

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