# First knife



## B Rogers (May 3, 2022)

I’m looking into finishing out one of the Zhen kitchen knives woodcraft has on sale this month. Any opinions on quality of these? Also I prefer to pin the handle but uncertain as to the proper bit to use for 1/4” pins. Should I drill 1/4” then use a reamer or drill with 9/32” bit, etc? Any help is appreciated.

Woodcraft Zhen

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## DLJeffs (May 3, 2022)

Bryson,
I'm sure there's people on here with much more experience than I. But when I built a set of steak knives, I drilled holes that matched the pin diameter (you can always drill a test hole to see how snug the fit will be). You'll be gluing the scales and pins in with epoxy so you just want the pin to slide smoothly into the hole. I make a very small countersink on each scale. Then, after gluing in the scales and pins, and cutting the pins so the end protrudes a 32nd inch from the scale, I used a small ball peen hammer to gently (the key word here is gently) peen the end of each pin on both sides of the handle. You want to just create a tiny flare on the end of each pin that sets into that small countersink you drilled. I guess this method only applies to solid brass pins, not the fancy mosaic pins. That prevents the pins from loosening with age (at least that's what the tutorials I watched said). You want a sharp bit to reduce the chance of tear out or chipping in your scales. 

I have not used any of the Woodcraft knife blanks but am interested in your appraisal. I want to make a couple kitchen knives for Christmas presents this year.

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## B Rogers (May 3, 2022)

DLJeffs said:


> Bryson,
> I'm sure there's people on here with much more experience than I. But when I built a set of steak knives, I drilled holes that matched the pin diameter (you can always drill a test hole to see how snug the fit will be). You'll be gluing the scales and pins in with epoxy so you just want the pin to slide smoothly into the hole. I make a very small countersink on each scale. Then, after gluing in the scales and pins, and cutting the pins so the end protrudes a 32nd inch from the scale, I used a small ball peen hammer to gently (the key word here is gently) peen the end of each pin on both sides of the handle. You want to just create a tiny flare on the end of each pin that sets into that small countersink you drilled. I guess this method only applies to solid brass pins, not the fancy mosaic pins. That prevents the pins from loosening with age (at least that's what the tutorials I watched said). You want a sharp bit to reduce the chance of tear out or chipping in your scales.
> 
> I have not used any of the Woodcraft knife blanks but am interested in your appraisal. I want to make a couple kitchen knives for Christmas presents this year.


Really appreciate your input. I haven’t decided on mosaic versus solid copper pins yet. If I go with the copper, I’ll be sure to be gentle with the hammer. Something I’m not accustomed to.

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## DLJeffs (May 3, 2022)

B Rogers said:


> Really appreciate your input. I haven’t decided on mosaic versus solid copper pins yet. If I go with the copper, I’ll be sure to be gentle with the hammer. Something I’m not accustomed to.


Won't copper pins turn green with patina? Might even stain your scales? Brass will dull and darken a little but at least it won't turn green. Just something to consider.

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## 2feathers Creative Making (May 3, 2022)

If you use copper, or even brass it is a good idea to coat them with lacquer to keep the tarnishing to a minimum. And yes red brass will even patina enough to stain the handles on the older stuff. Especially if your wife thinks the cleaver needs to be run through the dishwasher.

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## B Rogers (May 4, 2022)

I’m thinking of using Tru Oil as the finish. Not sure how well it would hold up to being washed though. I will definitely be informing everyone it is NOT allowed in the dishwasher. I plan to use stabilized scales as well. I have heard of folks finishing with epoxy. Not sure how easy that would be to get an even coat over the handle though.

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## Mike1950 (May 4, 2022)

B Rogers said:


> I’m thinking of using Tru Oil as the finish. Not sure how well it would hold up to being washed though. I will definitely be informing everyone it is NOT allowed in the dishwasher. I plan to use stabilized scales as well. I have heard of folks finishing with epoxy. Not sure how easy that would be to get an even coat over the handle though.


I used tru oil on olivewood handled Knife. finish worked great-well until it went through dishwasher. I need to re-handle.

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## B Rogers (May 4, 2022)

Mike1950 said:


> I used tru oil on olivewood handled Knife. finish worked great-well until it went through dishwasher. I need to re-handle.


So it held up pretty well to hand washing though?

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## Mike1950 (May 4, 2022)

B Rogers said:


> So it held up pretty well to hand washing though?


yes. I think if you stick with oily woods they are pretty durable. Such as Coco. Made knifes with coco handles for a long time before stabilizing came along.

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## 2feathers Creative Making (May 4, 2022)

B Rogers said:


> I’m thinking of using Tru Oil as the finish. Not sure how well it would hold up to being washed though. I will definitely be informing everyone it is NOT allowed in the dishwasher. I plan to use stabilized scales as well. I have heard of folks finishing with epoxy. Not sure how easy that would be to get an even coat over the handle though.


If you are using stabilized scales, you should be able to sand and buff to a modest shine, wipe your tru-oil on and start using it. The stabilization will make the scales nearly impervious to water. (Should make it fully impervious but I am hesitant to tell someone that about a knife handle. That leads to visits through the dishwasher. "But honey, you said it was waterproof"

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## hokie (May 4, 2022)

B Rogers said:


> I’m looking into finishing out one of the Zhen kitchen knives woodcraft has on sale this month. Any opinions on quality of these? Also I prefer to pin the handle but uncertain as to the proper bit to use for 1/4” pins. Should I drill 1/4” then use a reamer or drill with 9/32” bit, etc? Any help is appreciated.
> 
> Woodcraft Zhen


I assembled a set of those knives with stabilized maple burl as a gift. Unfortunately I forget the pin size I used. I'm pretty sure I just bought pin stock that matched the existing holes rather than reaming out anything bigger. I also finished with Tru Oil and from what I gather from the recipients, they are still holding up well several years later. I did warn them to wash with care and to never use the dishwasher.





If you want to go *really* durable, you could go the route I did on this CA-coated paring knife stabilized maple burl handle (used a cheap AliExpress knife blank to play around with)...





Feels like plastic in the hand, but it sure does make the wood shine! Haha

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## B Rogers (May 4, 2022)

hokie said:


> I assembled a set of those knives with stabilized maple burl as a gift. Unfortunately I forget the pin size I used. I'm pretty sure I just bought pin stock that matched the existing holes rather than reaming out anything bigger. I also finished with Tru Oil and from what I gather from the recipients, they are still holding up well several years later. I did warn them to wash with care and to never use the dishwasher.
> 
> View attachment 226374
> 
> ...


Those look great. I considered CA, but I’ve never applied/finished with CA unless it was spinning on a lathe. I figured all the hand sanding/polishing would be very tedious.


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## B Rogers (May 4, 2022)

2feathers Creative Making said:


> If you are using stabilized scales, you should be able to sand and buff to a modest shine, wipe your tru-oil on and start using it. The stabilization will make the scales nearly impervious to water. (Should make it fully impervious but I am hesitant to tell someone that about a knife handle. That leads to visits through the dishwasher. "But honey, you said it was waterproof"


I’ll never mention “waterproof”. I’ll be sure to mention “hates water”.

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## hokie (May 4, 2022)

B Rogers said:


> Those look great. I considered CA, but I’ve never applied/finished with CA unless it was spinning on a lathe. I figured all the hand sanding/polishing would be very tedious.


Ha, yeah, my only experience with CA was with pens and other small turned items as well. I actually didn't find it too difficult to apply! I did a few thin base layers, then medium the rest of the way. Sanding down ridges and high spots in-between layers with 220 or 320 grit. when everything is smooth and built up, I then go down the grits wetsanding to about 1000 or 1500. I finally use the polishing wheel I use for my pens for that high polish. Very satisfying!

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## B Rogers (May 5, 2022)

I went ahead and picked up a cheap harbor freight 1x30 belt sander. I’ll probably practice shaping some pine/maple scales to get the hang of it before actually using the nice stuff. I thought about ordering this set of belts/strops to use as well. I may be cheaper to order then individually, but I’ll do some checking around. 
Belts


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## B Rogers (May 10, 2022)

What is the best material to use for liner material? G10? Also best place to purchase knife making supplies (pins/liners/blades/etc). Thanks


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## JerseyHighlander (May 10, 2022)

B Rogers said:


> What is the best material to use for liner material? G10? Also best place to purchase knife making supplies (pins/liners/blades/etc). Thanks


 @Bear Custom Builds 

The kitchen knife my son made my wife has a Padauk handle finished with 100% Tung Oil. Gets used and washed several times a day, every day. No issues at all. We do give it a light coat every so often. Usually when I'm oiling one of my carvings and have a good amount of extra oil on my hands, I just pick up the knife and rub it in. 
I'm sure the CA would be very durable but I'd be concerned about it being a little slippery when wet.

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## Wildthings (May 11, 2022)

B Rogers said:


> What is the best material to use for liner material? G10? Also best place to purchase knife making supplies (pins/liners/blades/etc). Thanks


Texas Knife Supply

USA Knife Makers

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## B Rogers (Jun 19, 2022)

hokie said:


> I assembled a set of those knives with stabilized maple burl as a gift. Unfortunately I forget the pin size I used. I'm pretty sure I just bought pin stock that matched the existing holes rather than reaming out anything bigger. I also finished with Tru Oil and from what I gather from the recipients, they are still holding up well several years later. I did warn them to wash with care and to never use the dishwasher.
> 
> View attachment 226374
> I assume the Tru Oil finished knives were just finished with a few coats of oil instead of building up several layers to a gloss finish? I ask because I’m pondering how it (along with a CA finish) would adhere to the pins and spine of the blade if I were to build up several layers. I buffed the stabilized ash handle and considered leaving it as is, but there’s a few small voids. I may just fill those small places, sand them down smooth and buff back out again.


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## B Rogers (Jun 19, 2022)

Curly walnut/maple saya, Cocobolo keeper pin, dyed/stabilized black ash handle.

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## Nature Man (Jun 19, 2022)

Congrats! Awesome knife and sheath! Not sure I've seen a wooden sheath like this before! Chuck

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## B Rogers (Jun 19, 2022)

Nature Man said:


> Congrats! Awesome knife and sheath! Not sure I've seen a wooden sheath like this before! Chuck


Thanks Chuck. They are a LOT of work. I still couldn’t seem to get all the tiny scratches buffed out of the pins.


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## Eric Rorabaugh (Jun 19, 2022)

Beautiful work Bryson

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## B Rogers (Jun 19, 2022)

Eric Rorabaugh said:


> Beautiful work Bryson


Thanks Eric


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## jasonb (Jun 19, 2022)

B Rogers said:


> Thanks Chuck. They are a LOT of work. I still couldn’t seem to get all the tiny scratches buffed out of the pins.


Great job! I sometimes use a scotch brite sanding sleeve for a dremel, or a dremel abrasive brush - on the pins before buffing.

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## B Rogers (Jun 19, 2022)

jasonb said:


> Great job! I sometimes use a scotch brite sanding sleeve for a dremel, or a dremel abrasive brush - on the pins before buffing.


I used stainless pins and, at times, thought I was dealing with tungsten. They are tough. I was eroding the scales around the pins as I was trying to take them down with the belt sander, and the belt would flex, so I broke out the diamond burrs for the dremel. They worked to take the pins down but left deep scratches. After that, I belt sanded again with progressive grits and hand sanded through progressive grits. Buffed with black, white and green compounds with no luck of getting them all out. I’ll give the scotch brite a try next time. Thanks. And maybe avoid the diamond burrs as well…I think that was my problem. Just gotta figure out how to flush the pins without eating into the wood around them.


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## jasonb (Jun 19, 2022)

B Rogers said:


> I used stainless pins and, at times, thought I was dealing with tungsten. They are tough. I was eroding the scales around the pins as I was trying to take them down with the belt sander, and the belt would flex, so I broke out the diamond burrs for the dremel. They worked to take the pins down but left deep scratches. After that, I belt sanded again with progressive grits and hand sanded through progressive grits. Buffed with black, white and green compounds with no luck of getting them all out. I’ll give the scotch brite a try next time. Thanks. And maybe avoid the diamond burrs as well…I think that was my problem. Just gotta figure out how to flush the pins without eating into the wood around them.


Yup! That's always the issue. I did titanium pins one time - never again!

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## B Rogers (Jun 19, 2022)

jasonb said:


> Yup! That's always the issue. I did titanium pins one time - never again!


Yeah I don’t even want to think about titanium. Are aluminum pins ever used? Or are they too soft? Wanted to use copper, but I’ve heard the patina that forms on it can be toxic. I figured it wasn’t the best idea when used around acidic foods.


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## 2feathers Creative Making (Jun 19, 2022)

I have seen aluminum pins. Probably won't react as badly to carbon steel as copper even.

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